1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:09,000 I really expected that of course there's a law that you can point to in the law book,... 2 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:14,160 Of course there is. I mean I don't know what it is right then as he was speaking to me,... 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:18,000 So naively I agreed to go off and research it and get back to him. 4 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:26,000 Three and a half months later, I was at that point where I couldn't find the statute th... 5 00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:32,659 People have asked me, "Well, what would make a guy want to collect taxes for the federa... 6 00:00:32,659 --> 00:00:38,000 the government had bills to pay, that it needed revenue. 7 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:44,000 After all, it's the law of the land. Everybody knows you've got to pay your tax... 8 00:00:44,070 --> 00:00:52,000 I had no idea what I was getting into. I just was being a good husband and meeting their... 9 00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:57,850 This man who did the talking that night, he was not the man on the audio tape. 10 00:00:57,950 --> 00:01:04,819 He was somebody else who had come over. There was a business angle associated with this... 11 00:01:04,819 --> 00:01:10,969 , and that was the draw for the ladies to pull me there and have me evaluate the who... 12 00:01:11,099 --> 00:01:17,680 the whole thing, sort out the fact from the fiction, and why IRS is involved with this... 13 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:24,819 I was very leery, but I just went. And so I'm sitting on the front row, about where this... 14 00:01:24,819 --> 00:01:29,040 is, and the man was not up on a podium like this. He was down right at my feet. 15 00:01:29,260 --> 00:01:35,879 And he proceeded to spend several minutes telling this audience why the IRS doesn't... 16 00:01:35,980 --> 00:01:41,340 and to do that, and where's the law, there's no law that requires America's file paying... 17 00:01:41,519 --> 00:01:45,480 Federal Reserve, blah, blah, blah. He's ranting and raving and going on and on. 18 00:01:45,579 --> 00:01:51,299 And I'm sitting there. I start slumping down in my chair. I'm getting tense. 19 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:57,040 Steam coming out my ears, twitching in my temples and around that part of my face. 20 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:03,680 I was not very happy with what he was saying. I thought that-- I didn't know, but I just 21 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,340 thought, this guy looks like a sincere guy. He sounds very sincere. 22 00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:13,539 He believes in what he's saying. He's not going to get up here and tell a room full ... 23 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,780 So I didn't think he was stupid or a dummy or just a liar. 24 00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:24,900 But I thought this guy, like a lot of these tax protesters, has taken things out of... 25 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:32,020 He's taken little snippets of the law and he's just taken court cases or whatever. 26 00:02:32,139 --> 00:02:36,099 He's strung them all together and he's made it say what he wants it to say. 27 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,500 Because he doesn't like paying taxes. That's what was going through my mind as I was... 28 00:02:40,599 --> 00:02:47,479 Well, he asked those who had to leave early because of babysitter commitments and... 29 00:02:47,580 --> 00:02:54,129 He said that they could leave. And he said, if others can stay around and you want to ... 30 00:02:54,129 --> 00:02:57,330 get a refreshment and hang around. Let's talk. 31 00:02:57,439 --> 00:03:02,550 So when everybody went to get their punch and cookies, I talked with him one-on-one for ... 32 00:03:03,439 --> 00:03:09,919 And my questions, as you might not be surprised, were a little bit intense and... 33 00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:17,259 And my responses to his answers. And now my wife and sister-in-law are standing right... 34 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:25,120 And they see it going like this. Nowhere. She's thinking, you guys are not... 35 00:03:25,219 --> 00:03:31,080 Nobody's relating. So she gently pokes me in the ribcage and whispers in my ear. 36 00:03:31,340 --> 00:03:37,939 She says, psst, tell him who you work for and what you do for a living because you 37 00:03:37,939 --> 00:03:41,479 're not relating to him. He doesn't know where you're coming from. 38 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:44,719 But I thought, you know what? My little wife is right. 39 00:03:44,819 --> 00:03:52,259 This conversation is going nowhere, and I'm either just going to might as well walk aw... 40 00:03:52,379 --> 00:03:56,259 So I told him, and his response was like this. 41 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:03,460 He just barely blinked. He recovered very well from that 42 00:04:03,460 --> 00:04:10,509 sudden disclosure on my part of who I worked for and what I did, after all the things t... 43 00:04:10,620 --> 00:04:17,160 And then something very interesting was about to happen, and I will always 44 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:24,160 commend him for the way that he responded. Instead of arguing with me, instead 45 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:30,879 of pounding his chest and telling me where I was wrong, or being content 46 00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:37,389 ious at all, he said, you know, he says, have you ever on your own, just personal 47 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:43,990 , you know, not as part of the government agent, but just on your own, have you ever... 48 00:04:43,990 --> 00:04:49,600 the law and other things, resources to find out if the things I said tonight are wrong? 49 00:04:50,639 --> 00:04:54,220 And then he just shut up. He's a sales guy. 50 00:04:54,319 --> 00:05:00,600 He knows that old sales thing that, you know, the first guy that talks when you're in th... 51 00:05:00,699 --> 00:05:06,459 And I am not a sales guy, but I know enough about it that I knew where he was going wi... 52 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:11,259 And I felt very uncomfortable, and so I admitted, well, no, I haven't. 53 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:19,459 And he said, well, he said, I've been talking to you here for a few minutes, and obvious... 54 00:05:19,540 --> 00:05:23,139 for the IRS, you clearly have access to the law. 55 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:31,839 You've got to have access to it. Is that true? I mean, isn't there a law library... 56 00:05:31,939 --> 00:05:39,060 I said, yeah, I do. Then he said, well, I've been talking to you for a few minutes 57 00:05:39,060 --> 00:05:45,910 , and you seem reasonably intelligent to me. He said, I'm guessing that you probably could 58 00:05:45,910 --> 00:05:52,019 do some reading and studies and figure out the answers to some of these questions. 59 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:58,439 Is that correct? And he shut up. And I'm thinking, yeah, I think I could. 60 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:07,100 And then he said, and then was his clincher, he said, so I've got a question for you. 61 00:06:07,100 --> 00:06:13,819 He said, if you're reasonably intelligent and you have access to the law and you've just... 62 00:06:13,819 --> 00:06:21,449 personally verified these things for yourself, and yet you're telling me I'm... 63 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:29,199 Do you have the desire to take some time, whatever time you need, and research it ou... 64 00:06:29,300 --> 00:06:32,819 Show me where I'm wrong. Then he shut up. 65 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,540 Now the pressure's really on. My wife and sister-in-law are back there. 66 00:06:36,569 --> 00:06:43,360 A few more people have gathered around. And I'm thinking, this sounds like work. 67 00:06:43,420 --> 00:06:47,199 I'm just a government employee. The guy is right. He's being sincere. 68 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:53,500 He's not badgering me. He's not being contentious. He's asking me reasoned... 69 00:06:53,639 --> 00:06:58,740 Plus, I was so cocky. I was so confident. 70 00:06:59,060 --> 00:07:03,860 I said, you got it. And I'm thinking, this is going to be a slam dunk. 71 00:07:03,980 --> 00:07:10,699 I've been enforcing this law for nearly 10 years, and this turkey wants an answer, no... 72 00:07:10,750 --> 00:07:14,279 I'll go research it, and I'll lay it out for him, and that'll be the end of that. 73 00:07:14,379 --> 00:07:19,050 Boy, was I naive. So off I went that night. 74 00:07:19,439 --> 00:07:27,100 with a verbal commitment to him to give him my professional, my personal opinion somet... 75 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:34,149 I started, I had my personal, my copy of the Internal Revenue Code that 76 00:07:34,149 --> 00:07:40,709 was issued to me by the IRS, and I've got to confess to you, I read it a lot more 77 00:07:40,709 --> 00:07:45,459 from that day forward to this date than I ever did for those 10 years working for him. 78 00:07:46,540 --> 00:07:53,060 So here we are looking at section one, tax imposed, subtitle A of this 79 00:07:53,060 --> 00:08:00,290 thing called the law. And it says right there at the beginning, section one, tax imposed... 80 00:08:00,459 --> 00:08:03,639 And I go, well, what's this guy's problem? Here it is, man. 81 00:08:03,740 --> 00:08:12,509 It says right in the beginning, here's where tax is imposed. Paragraph eight, married... 82 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:19,379 There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of every married individual, as defined in... 83 00:08:19,379 --> 00:08:27,110 703, who makes a single return jointly with his spouse under section 6013 and blah, bl... 84 00:08:27,339 --> 00:08:30,800 And it keeps going. I said, what's this guy's problem? There it is. And I said, wait a... 85 00:08:30,899 --> 00:08:39,679 Let me read this again. There is hereby imposed on the taxable income of those guy... 86 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:48,730 I said, wait a minute, that's not exactly the statute that identifies clearly who's liable. 87 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:55,669 It says those who file returns become liable. But, okay, well 88 00:08:55,669 --> 00:09:03,840 , maybe that's not all the answer. So, you know, who wants to read a book like this? 89 00:09:03,940 --> 00:09:10,389 It's confusing. There's places where it's vague. 90 00:09:10,519 --> 00:09:17,519 There's definitions that don't necessarily mean the same thing as the terms that we u... 91 00:09:17,639 --> 00:09:24,139 There's all kinds of things about it that, besides the sheer volume of it, how big 92 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:31,500 it is, that make most people not want to pick it up and read it, understandably. 93 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:39,509 So I kept going, and I got to the section there under subtitle F, Procedure... 94 00:09:39,620 --> 00:09:46,389 Section 6001 that talks about every person liable for any tax imposed by 95 00:09:46,460 --> 00:09:52,309 this title or for the collection thereof shall keep such records. 96 00:09:52,419 --> 00:10:00,039 And then it goes on and says some other things. And it says the only records which... 97 00:10:00,070 --> 00:10:07,490 I'm thinking, what does this have to do with an employer? In connection with charge tip... 98 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:14,799 So that really didn't tell me the exact answer, even though it was flirting with it. 99 00:10:14,899 --> 00:10:21,279 They keep flirting with it. It's talking about liable and imposed and everything, b... 100 00:10:21,379 --> 00:10:26,539 Section 6011, general requirement of a return statement or list. 101 00:10:26,659 --> 00:10:33,330 When required by regulations prescribed by the secretary, any person made liable for ... 102 00:10:33,330 --> 00:10:39,299 this title shall make a return or statement. and it goes on to talk about regulations. 103 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:46,169 So I said, well, that sure sounds like it, but the more I read it carefully 104 00:10:46,220 --> 00:10:52,039 and properly as you should, I'm not an attorney, but I... 105 00:10:52,139 --> 00:10:58,779 And let me just digress for a second. Back when that gentleman challenged me to do th... 106 00:10:58,779 --> 00:11:05,470 my time doing it, invest my time doing this on my own instead of playing golf every... 107 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:12,009 might as well do my best effort to put aside my preconceived notions, all my beliefs, and 108 00:11:12,070 --> 00:11:19,210 all the training that IRS gave me about income tax, tax protesters, illegal tax... 109 00:11:19,529 --> 00:11:22,600 I thought, okay, I don't know if I can do it, but I'm going to try. 110 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,600 I'm going to try to be open-minded and objective. 111 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:32,779 So I'm trying to look at this not through a real narrow lens, but I'm trying to look 112 00:11:32,779 --> 00:11:38,299 at it in terms of this guy, what he said, and why he wanted me to take some time to show... 113 00:11:38,399 --> 00:11:43,200 So you flip over to page 6012 of the code. Persons required to make returns of income. 114 00:11:43,299 --> 00:11:49,919 Aha! You know, so you read that. Every individual having for the taxable year 115 00:11:49,919 --> 00:11:55,700 gross income, which equals or exceeds the exemption amount, except that a return sho... 116 00:11:55,919 --> 00:12:01,059 And it goes on, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I just thought, oh, this is it. 117 00:12:01,159 --> 00:12:08,059 But there were some more things that I needed to do. And I'm not going to go on and on h... 118 00:12:08,159 --> 00:12:13,250 And some of you have probably made the same study for yourselves to come to your own... 119 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:20,940 But by the time you get through the definitions of certain terms and go back t... 120 00:12:21,159 --> 00:12:24,259 It starts breaking down. And that's what happened to me. 121 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,929 In fact, you heard of this thing called cognitive dissonance? 122 00:12:28,039 --> 00:12:34,179 Well, several weeks into this, things were not meeting. 123 00:12:34,279 --> 00:12:43,059 And it seemed like every time I picked up a rock and looked under it for some good... 124 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,440 And I thought, you know, I've just got to keep turning over rocks and I'll find the... 125 00:12:46,539 --> 00:12:51,759 And instead, I just kept getting the wrong answers for what I expected to have happen. 126 00:12:52,700 --> 00:12:56,740 Well, I started having some internal, kind of like a bellyache. 127 00:12:56,740 --> 00:13:02,259 I started feeling really bad. I thought, why is this not so clear as crystal clear? 128 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:09,500 And more studies and now visits to the law library, eventually visits with people 129 00:13:09,500 --> 00:13:16,539 in the so-called tax movement who were vocal and outspoken about their position 130 00:13:16,539 --> 00:13:22,580 that people are mostly not required to file income tax returns. 131 00:13:22,700 --> 00:13:28,429 and I found them to be very accessible. I was kind of surprised about that. 132 00:13:28,519 --> 00:13:31,879 I was still working for IRS. I whipped out my commission. 133 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,879 I said, look, I'm not pulling your leg. I really work for these guys, but I want to... 134 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:40,379 I'm not here. They didn't send me. I'm here on my own volition. I'd like to know. 135 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:44,139 I'd sit down. They'd spend two hours of their own time. I'd take notes. 136 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:48,610 They'd give me some of their materials, and they'd speak at seminars or whatnot. 137 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:55,230 After two hours, and they'd have to leave or something, They'd say, well, good luck, an... 138 00:13:55,230 --> 00:14:03,200 walk out like this, with all kinds of homework. And I kept thinking, well, okay,... 139 00:14:03,429 --> 00:14:08,269 Instead of finding the law, I couldn't find the law. 140 00:14:08,340 --> 00:14:16,279 I found lots of sections of the law that looked like it was the one that I needed, ... 141 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:22,909 And at some point in time, like the end of March 1997, because 142 00:14:22,909 --> 00:14:29,889 I started this in the beginning of '97, I was unable to, in good conscience 143 00:14:29,889 --> 00:14:36,500 , go out and file notices of levy, send out notices of levy to people's employers, the... 144 00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:43,259 accounts, call tow truck drivers and have them seize people's automobiles right out ... 145 00:14:43,259 --> 00:14:47,639 yet, while they're at work, and they come out and their car's gone. They don't even know... 146 00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:54,419 Just an empty parking space there. I did those things, like I said earlier, with 147 00:14:54,429 --> 00:15:00,460 a good conscience based on what I knew and believed before I came across this... 148 00:15:00,559 --> 00:15:07,690 When all of a sudden I realized that I didn't have the proper authority to do this, I ha... 149 00:15:07,690 --> 00:15:12,220 problems internally going on with me. My mind was shaken. 150 00:15:12,220 --> 00:15:20,519 I couldn't believe that the government would create such a fantastic hoax and make it l... 151 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:25,840 And for all these 80 years, they put people in jail and they take their property. 152 00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:32,590 Clearly, they have the authority to do this. All these attorneys in our land and all th... 153 00:15:32,590 --> 00:15:37,110 people wouldn't let this happen if it wasn't clearly authorized and proper. 154 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,250 And so here I was all of a sudden with the inability to rectify this. 155 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:46,980 And the only answer I had for myself was to resign. I did not make a big fanfare. 156 00:15:47,049 --> 00:15:50,620 I did not even tell my employer the reasons why I resigned. 157 00:15:50,730 --> 00:15:57,450 I was very shocked to later, years later, when I was doing my research, to come acro... 158 00:15:57,450 --> 00:16:01,220 et in this lesson on 6020B. Listen to this. 159 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,879 The IRM, now the IRM is the Internal Revenue Manual. 160 00:16:04,980 --> 00:16:13,080 That's not the law. It's not the regulations. It's just guidelines, procedural guideline... 161 00:16:13,179 --> 00:16:19,950 The IRM restricts the broad delegation shown, and it points to this copy of the delegati... 162 00:16:20,019 --> 00:16:27,279 that they gave us, for revenue officers to employment, excise, and partnership tax... 163 00:16:27,379 --> 00:16:34,919 Are you ready for this? Because of constitutional issues. Because of... 164 00:16:35,019 --> 00:16:40,679 Why we didn't question that, all of us in that training classroom at that time, I do... 165 00:16:40,779 --> 00:16:47,940 Except that we, in terms of our attitudes and our motivations, we weren't questioning... 166 00:16:48,029 --> 00:16:55,779 We just were learning how to do the job. And then it says in parentheses, you have alre... 167 00:16:55,879 --> 00:17:00,019 Look at that word, enforce. And they gave me a non-enforcement pocket commission. 168 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:08,519 You have already studied the lesson on audit referrals as a means to enforce compliance... 169 00:17:09,019 --> 00:17:13,559 And there's another lesson, a separate one from this one, that is that lesson. 170 00:17:13,660 --> 00:17:20,579 And it makes no mention of the statute, no mention of any delegation orders, no menti... 171 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:27,279 There's a huge body of knowledge to explain just how they are able to pull this off an... 172 00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:34,190 And folks, the bottom line is if people knew what I know, what I'm telling people about... 173 00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:40,829 substitute return business, this misapplication of Code Section 6020B, if t... 174 00:17:40,829 --> 00:17:47,329 I know, how the government pulls this off, they would stop filing their returns becau... 175 00:17:47,329 --> 00:17:53,180 realize what a fraud it is, how the government – how IRS is limited in their... 176 00:17:53,700 --> 00:18:00,240 Folks, I'm telling you the government has no legal mechanism in place, never has had, 177 00:18:00,289 --> 00:18:07,880 to get a tax assessment by preparing a tax return for you, an income tax return, when...