1 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,000 This is another very special interview. 2 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:41,000 I'm very privileged to be able to interview a survivor, 3 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,000 someone that I personally know, 4 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,000 someone I've worked with for quite a while, 5 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:59,000 So, I'm very much looking forward to our conversation. 6 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:06,000 I just want to remind you, again, I traveled very far to do this. 7 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,000 Obviously, there's expenses involved, 8 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,000 and it's all coming out of my pocket at the moment. 9 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:23,000 if you'd like to support my efforts to interview survivors and whistleblowers, 10 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:30,000 all with this stated goal that we move division and yet we speak truths, 11 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,000 maybe unconventional truths. 12 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,000 So, thank you. 13 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:47,000 Hello, Helen. 14 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,000 Hello. 15 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,000 So, I want to, again, thank you so much for agreeing to do this. 16 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,000 I know I asked you, and you were one of the first people I asked. 17 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,000 Yeah, thanks for this birth. 18 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,000 Yes, yes, it's a really beautiful big step, 19 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000 and, you know, having been working together with you, 20 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:26,000 I've seen you in process, so it's very special that you decided to do this, 21 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,000 Yeah, I'm surprised myself. 22 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:33,000 Wonderful. 23 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,000 We were brought here, and yeah. 24 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:36,000 Yes. 25 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,000 So, I'm going to ask some questions, and as you know, 26 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:47,000 I'm going to maybe sometimes respond similarly to when we talk otherwise. 27 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:11,000 but the things that were coming up, and throughout all of my life, now I know they 28 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:11,000 but that's what I'm trying to put together. I can't say that that's where the limit is. 29 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:18,000 Yes, yeah. 30 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,000 And those first three years, they were not spent in Germany, correct? 31 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:37,000 Yeah, I was in America, in Kansas, lived in Kansas, and I have memories that were more... 32 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Yeah, like a tornado that happened once, and being in the basement, being carried down. 33 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:15,000 It is, trauma memories can go back anytime. 34 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Yeah, now I'm learning they go back to really anytime, and yeah, pretty clear, but in 35 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:48,000 So there's these little parts that have shown themselves and have through the body 36 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,000 Yeah, really, I have the feeling with every memory. 37 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,000 I am again and again coming back to life. 38 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:08,000 And this is one thing that just death has been so around all the time in different 39 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:29,000 My first daughter, after she was born, then almost died and then my second daughter wa... 40 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:19,000 Is this inner parts witnessing or were there or are you talking about there were more t... 41 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:21,000 There were more people there. 42 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:26,000 And at the time, long time ago, I the screams were not allowed to come out. 43 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Yeah, heard heard. 44 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,000 Yeah. 45 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,000 And I learned to have a stone face. 46 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:55,000 I still carry it around in my life and I am practicing breaking it up into something m... 47 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Yeah. 48 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,000 Your family members being there. 49 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:42,000 And then now more, not just my husband, not just my self, but and more people are 50 00:10:51,000 --> 00:11:00,000 Yeah, even though maybe you can talk a little bit more about that process of integrating... 51 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:10,000 You began to describe being taken down into basement at a very young age, you know, 52 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:32,000 Is there a way to describe what happened there and then perhaps speak a little bit 53 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:30,000 And I know there's the thought during this memory coming up, the question rises, is t... 54 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:51,000 It's a dissected body or that's what it seems like. 55 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:10,000 And while this memory was coming, my voice was also coming and my body shaking very, 56 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:49,960 The voices, the screams, the shaking, it just feels like at last, at last, it's able 57 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:53,759 to show, yeah. 58 00:13:53,759 --> 00:13:59,200 And this was with the help of my therapist, and part of the integrating was possible, 59 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,480 or this to show up at all was because we were on the phone. 60 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:16,120 And it's still that way, that it's very helpful not to be seen. 61 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:24,000 Even though I can, now there's more and more memories that only come up when I am seen. 62 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:30,640 And it's more challenging, but I'm trying to find out if that's going to be very dangerous 63 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:31,640 or not. 64 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:42,080 So when you say that there's this question that this may be yours, so then this is not 65 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,980 when you were a toddler. 66 00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:44,980 Couldn't have been. 67 00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:45,980 Couldn't have been. 68 00:14:45,980 --> 00:14:47,880 Couldn't have been. 69 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:54,759 I can only imagine that this was in, do you call it an instant, it was a scene that was 70 00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:07,160 So that you were told that this was your baby. 71 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:13,160 And I don't remember any voice telling me that, but I do have other body memories that 72 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:18,360 do speak of really giving birth. 73 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:32,600 couldn't swear that that belongs together and that I must have been older than in that 74 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,200 case. 75 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:39,800 It's too fragmented right now to be sure. 76 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:48,080 So even though it is fragmented, there is this memory was so significant and it 77 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,320 assaulted with it from all sides. 78 00:15:54,320 --> 00:16:03,440 It was very, and even though there is this, it's very extreme. 79 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:10,000 The integration begins with the relief of allowing the screams, the reactions that you 80 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,120 could never have before to be present, yes? 81 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,519 Yeah. 82 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:16,519 Very much. 83 00:16:16,519 --> 00:16:17,519 Yeah. 84 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:20,560 Yeah. 85 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,080 And that brings you back to life. 86 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:30,720 And then did it also then explain this death team in that sense around your own children, 87 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:31,720 yes? 88 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,320 I think so. 89 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:40,120 And of course, many, many other memories that were around very, being very close to death. 90 00:16:52,640 --> 00:17:04,440 suffocated or I think water was also involved or being very close to fire. 91 00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:16,720 And as if it happened over and over and over again while being watched very closely. 92 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:24,039 As if to see, find out where the limit is, where the boundary to dying is. 93 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:44,240 But as if I'm on purpose being brought to this, close to death or around this border, 94 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,400 this limit, what would you call it? 95 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,400 The limit. 96 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:49,400 The limit, yeah. 97 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,759 It was a punishment for getting something wrong. 98 00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:08,480 But then it was also part of the training to be either suffocated or drowned. 99 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:09,759 Fire was used differently. 100 00:18:09,759 --> 00:18:19,240 But in my case, those two were used specifically to create the states of 101 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:34,320 So it was very directed, it was very specific the way that it was used in my case. 102 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:41,960 So you feel that there was more organization around your experiences also that, yes, you 103 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:57,079 context, torturing me in this context of the mind control were very good at knowing how 104 00:18:57,079 --> 00:19:01,279 far they could take it so that I would just not die. 105 00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:02,279 Exactly. 106 00:19:02,279 --> 00:19:03,279 Yeah. 107 00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:04,279 Yeah. 108 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:24,079 In my inner world, I'm just always shocked how attached I am to the people that were 109 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:43,320 and being brought back to life and as if you had terrible pain and then absolute gratitude 110 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:51,400 to be relieved from the pain again and again and again. 111 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:08,519 just, I'm sure it's there, but it's still very, very strong that I will feel more this 112 00:20:19,259 --> 00:20:22,259 perpetrators. 113 00:20:22,259 --> 00:20:26,440 And that, of course, your life depends on it. 114 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,920 Your life depends on the attachment, the emotional attachments with them that is al... 115 00:20:40,079 --> 00:20:44,920 So you would anyway be attached to anyone who's handling you, but then that attachment 116 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:50,759 gets completely perverted with the life-death situation that knowing you can die any 117 00:20:50,759 --> 00:20:56,440 your attachment increases and your love, in this case, then fear-based love, I think, 118 00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:01,400 would very much increase and so it would be completely natural really that you would 119 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,620 So are we speaking now of your family members or other people? 120 00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:21,160 No, I really mean the people that I associate some details through some details as some 121 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:30,720 perpetrating qualities I see now in the present that comes up quickly, but this 122 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:48,640 mean myself unhappy with the ones that are still trying to take care of the perpetrator 123 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,640 sides if anybody shows up. 124 00:22:05,019 --> 00:22:08,960 this I'm a bit more empathic with myself and patient. 125 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:10,360 Of course. 126 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:17,200 And this is your own family rather than strangers that came into your life and the... 127 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,240 have those feelings like I had strangers come in and they became parental figures and then 128 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:48,599 So I understand very well those feelings of attachment and yes, the anger, you know, 129 00:22:53,400 --> 00:23:02,680 When you do, yeah, I love it when others reflected back to me or I try to watch 130 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:10,920 I think I had to watch many people in general how to how to behave at all. 131 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:30,680 to, oh, that's how it works to be alive and kind of tickle it out of me. 132 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:39,519 I used to put a lot of pressure out come wanting to come out of numbness and this 133 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,720 I wanted this is not right. 134 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:58,800 It's not right to be numb and it's very important for me to come back to life, but... 135 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:07,800 be in many, many, many thousands of steps and because life seemed totally overwhelming. 136 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:34,000 coming that, yeah, is more understandable and, yeah, I can orient it back to where i... 137 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,000 Absolutely. 138 00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:44,960 You know, you live with something that's so heavy, but you don't know what it is. 139 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:50,840 So you feel completely numb, not exactly the same, I would say as a depressed state, 140 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:51,840 It's not the same. 141 00:24:51,840 --> 00:25:01,079 I resisted so much calling myself depressed and when I learned more of dissociation and 142 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,920 dissociation better. 143 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:25,320 And now I can say, yes, there are depressed things and suicidal states very much part 144 00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:39,559 And I never was close to really taking action, but it just, as if it were constan... 145 00:25:39,559 --> 00:25:54,200 phases, constantly speaking to me, maybe, yeah, a suicide program or a discard program. 146 00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:06,519 So suicide programming, what I received was, you know, this repeat, repeat very loudly 147 00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:13,920 while being tortured or traumatized or in one event, I was actually sexualized while 148 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,280 being told if my man leaves me, I have to kill myself. 149 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,840 So it's this deep repetition connected to trauma. 150 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:35,840 So if this trauma emotionally occurs again, or if this memory begins to come up, or if 151 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:42,119 this, I see this face of this perpetrator, if that comes before me, then I need to kill 152 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:45,119 myself. 153 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:56,160 instead of, they would have the slow suicide where they cannot take care of themselves 154 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,160 at all. 155 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,119 So they fall into drug use, homelessness, and so forth. 156 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:08,840 And then basically they become sort of the disenfranchised and then end up dying an 157 00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:19,920 anything, they don't deserve to participate in a regular life. 158 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,320 And so that's the programation they received. 159 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:27,000 that's the programation they received and so it's true that when you get this these 160 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:35,000 what my particular one which had to do with my man leaves me it didn't just work for t... 161 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,360 it worked for many men so when I got that it was this voice but it wasn't really my voice 162 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:55,320 that it's not doesn't sound like your voice do you have the memory of being programmed 163 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,960 but it it seems like there's a huge 164 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:41,000 it just pops up death to be the solution to get away from very unbearable 165 00:28:45,240 --> 00:29:02,040 and there there's been a long process of first I just believed it's yeah I just can... 166 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:08,920 I wasn't made for this world but then through understanding the how specific it can be 167 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:33,560 like a very many different aspects coming together and partly the yeah one one thing 168 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:52,680 think this that is a is a program because the moment I uh you name it expose it name it 169 00:29:52,680 --> 00:30:00,200 it changes but that happens in very different qualities again so either it's there are many 170 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:16,519 memories that my system can tolerate and and then heal 171 00:30:16,519 --> 00:30:26,920 that's how I would explain it right now yeah that's that's beautiful thank you yeah 172 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:42,600 healing from this kind of abuse that um programming is so vast 173 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:51,000 so for you to say program is sufficient to take you out of the the impulse let's say 174 00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:02,120 distance and that's what we need you know to create distance from our thoughts in order to 175 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:08,200 look at them and then you know see maybe where they came from but where they came f... 176 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:18,360 just nothing and there was one particular moment where my husband he has a very hard 177 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:34,200 like you can't bear life the way it is right now then let's plan for it let's plan to e... 178 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:45,400 and that is that immediately helped me come out of it because his care to love me so m... 179 00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:58,200 that now come up every once in a while again this 180 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:09,560 and and I I agree what you said that the these thoughts around wanting or or the wh... 181 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:16,440 right now call suicide programming comes when more memories start to come up it's it's 182 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:29,880 and it feels like for a long time I'm going to try to leave in with through dissociati... 183 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:39,560 the thought yes I can leave the world if I wanted to have that choice but his care to 184 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:55,160 it's bringing everything out from this dark and and silencing 185 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:03,800 state and and conditioning yeah programming is conditioning so yeah 186 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:23,960 having a choice and so pushing you you know to if this happens if a happens if you hav... 187 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:29,240 then b you have to that means b you have to then kill yourself and then if someone lik... 188 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:44,840 it and it brought the programming broke the program programming of 189 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:57,240 just now lost it you said it also broke the programming another programming 190 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,840 yeah that people around me are silence about a silent about it but 191 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:16,360 oh gosh it's gone it was something important oh it'll come back no worries yeah 192 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:37,559 the choice the freedom to choose yeah which you didn't have now I'm remembering it broke 193 00:34:37,559 --> 00:34:49,880 the the emotions broke out at that moment and the pain was released at that moment 194 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:06,840 what I meant with saying stone face very strong not to show any emotions but at tha... 195 00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:28,519 that is the spell the spell was broken the spell was broken it was broken fantastic wow 196 00:35:28,519 --> 00:35:34,119 so many spells were broken throughout all those years and I'm looking back now that ... 197 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:49,320 started when I had children but now I'm looking back and I'm seeing them all over 198 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:57,079 you see the symptoms see the symptoms you did have and maybe yeah and maybe some spells 199 00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:11,720 offered this unconditional it's an interesting you know that to offer you to 200 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:20,840 kill yourself which is unconventional to say the least then somehow still that was the 201 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:35,480 and so it's an interesting term to use the spells were broken because we have satanic 202 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:43,000 and we have witchcraft which is sort of goes hand in hand the dark witchcraft I guess 203 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:58,280 that there is you know in certain levels of the satanic circles in certain groups of t... 204 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:05,800 church or the the temple satan these things do happen so do you feel that there do you 205 00:37:13,559 --> 00:37:28,760 situations the things that I remember or that just come up is in form of in the form of 206 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:58,199 white light but that was seemed different in the quality but connected with electrode 207 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:25,159 one person there and in other surroundings it seemed mostly inside and as I said dark and 208 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:45,000 they're very these pieces are very come very fragmented so I hardly ever see a longer 209 00:38:54,280 --> 00:39:05,960 then um yeah if they're put together but I can't swear then that they belong together 210 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:24,440 I was present then in my in my memory I was not dissociating too much in during the 211 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:31,559 was when I was in a hallway and somehow it seemed like there were wires 212 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:52,760 close them I was being forced to watch a scene where a girl a girl's upper body I 213 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:13,880 a scalpel was being dissected and I must have been I mean at that time definitely 214 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:21,079 and while I'm saying it I am not in touch with the feelings around it but during thi... 215 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:36,519 yeah I could put some pieces together and it was a bit of a longer scene and it was dar... 216 00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:42,119 the perpetrator I see his hand and doing the work but I don't see 217 00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:47,640 usually I don't see the face and there's a lot of my eyes trying to close and 218 00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:02,199 specific special clamps an instrument with 219 00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:14,199 metal basically keeping the eyes open, forced open for a long time actually I was made to 220 00:41:14,199 --> 00:41:21,000 watch certain films but you were forced to watch this and you were held in place by 221 00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:41,000 and you were forced to watch this. I'm sorry. That's another thing, when people say they're 222 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:48,360 sorry and there's not that many because they don't know but it does a certain thing. 223 00:42:01,319 --> 00:42:09,639 Yes, I'm sorry for you for having to go through that. I'm sorry for the victim tha... 224 00:42:09,639 --> 00:42:16,279 that was either dead or being killed and I'm sorry for me and all of us that have had t... 225 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:32,039 really. Maybe that's why I react to the word I'm sorry because it's so humongous, so hu... 226 00:42:32,039 --> 00:42:43,559 so impossible, unimaginable. It is unimaginable. That's why we're trying to t... 227 00:42:50,920 --> 00:43:02,920 details but just talking also the process of integrating. We've spoken a little bit about 228 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:11,079 some of the things that you endured. Now, from knowing you and we haven't spoken abo... 229 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:35,159 That's a big part. Yeah. Those are my first memories and I just had things kind of, 230 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:56,759 triggering or life quality things. And so, yeah, that was my first, I can't call it 231 00:43:56,759 --> 00:44:02,039 when I knew about the phenomena that something like that exists, 232 00:44:14,519 --> 00:44:26,119 open and had much clearer memories. And they just came through the body or come through 233 00:44:42,359 --> 00:44:52,920 baby body. That being you. That being me and a finger being inserted into the vagina. 234 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:13,880 And actually the first for unbearable, I just spent so many nights with feelings over 235 00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:21,960 high arousal, and not clearly sexual arousal on my side. But as an often, often I had the 236 00:45:30,759 --> 00:45:45,079 And I'm feeling the side of the perpetrator in very complex ways, empathy, but also I'... 237 00:45:53,000 --> 00:46:06,199 Excitement. Excitement, but times 1000 multiplied. And then understanding very we... 238 00:46:06,199 --> 00:46:13,239 these things because it brings such feelings of aliveness multiplied many times. 239 00:46:20,519 --> 00:46:27,480 doing this. And why not? And what, why have empathy with with the victim and all of th... 240 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:36,519 Because you were so young when this started, you were a baby, right? 241 00:46:43,639 --> 00:46:49,319 to your environment, because you have no physical capabilities at all, you cannot 242 00:46:49,319 --> 00:46:57,000 survive without grownups. So when the grownups, I think it's natural for babies ... 243 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:04,759 attune themselves to their environment. So if your environment was filled with 244 00:47:11,319 --> 00:47:23,079 So if your need was to give in this way, so to help the perpetrator, then to for you, 245 00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:30,359 your spirit to go inside of them, to feel everything you're like you say, I understa... 246 00:47:36,519 --> 00:47:41,239 understand it. It's not that you approve in any way or you would never do anything of ... 247 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:45,880 just to be very clear. Because there you know, there is this empathy that you have. 248 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:53,960 It was used. It seemed like that phase of life was in the end, the biological needs 249 00:48:02,279 --> 00:48:10,039 to really and know enough about. It's a science to know how trauma 250 00:48:10,039 --> 00:48:21,000 works. And on a baby, on a baby, especially. And it seemed like also I was a research 251 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:46,519 was what. And so, but I do have strong memories of oral abuse. And more than one 252 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:16,440 on the side somehow. It's just part of all of it. First, with my first memories when I was 253 00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:23,480 a teenager going into the 20s, that seemed like, Oh, that's the big thing. It was mor... 254 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:31,559 family through my father. But now when more memories of more people and more scenes ar... 255 00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:40,920 up, it's just the sexual thing is not really the most central. Right. In many cases. Bu... 256 00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:54,279 and we'll talk about that, or survivors that have been used for soldiering. 257 00:49:54,279 --> 00:50:02,599 However, sexual abuse was always part of it, even though it wasn't a side in a way for 258 00:50:16,279 --> 00:50:23,239 necessarily. It's impossible to say that something happened to me. 259 00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:32,920 It's not recognized by my mother or whoever was there to take care of me. And but I'm 260 00:50:44,359 --> 00:50:54,519 maybe that's the priming of silencing. Yeah, the sexual abuse. Yeah. And then silencing 261 00:50:54,519 --> 00:51:02,359 the sexual abuse, and, and then that working as a silencing tool for all the other abuse. 262 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:15,639 why silence, why not speak about why not show. And I know there were there were sig... 263 00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:21,559 could have been noticed. Definitely now, watching my own daughters growing up and 264 00:51:21,559 --> 00:51:28,599 me being hyper alert, trying to notice everything. But that I one big, big reason 265 00:51:36,279 --> 00:51:43,480 moment I would open my mouth and start to speak and to reach out, I would then 266 00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:52,279 system entirely, which was would have been, I think, impossible. I would have gone crazy or 267 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:06,279 how that would have been taken. Of course, maybe nobody would have reacted. But if 268 00:52:06,279 --> 00:52:14,199 have reacted, even that seemed impossible to survive. Strange mixture again. But that was 269 00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:33,000 Yeah. But yes, in my case, I don't know if this was the same for you, but the 270 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:41,480 overwhelm of speaking out is that you then bring it into the reality that it's real. ... 271 00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:57,559 denial was so strong, I'd sign up, you know, piggybacked on that there. Exactly. The 272 00:52:57,559 --> 00:53:04,840 that helped me. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was so happy when I noticed my parents, I don't h... 273 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:20,599 denial is very obvious. You mean that you see his denial? Yeah, his or my mother's. And ... 274 00:53:34,039 --> 00:53:40,519 there's parts that are still trying to avoid the high arousal and that happens. And it 275 00:53:40,519 --> 00:53:45,639 happen with my mother. Sometimes she suddenly has a realization when I show something, talk 276 00:53:54,279 --> 00:54:02,679 a short time. It comes out of denial. And recently, my therapist says, well, then th... 277 00:54:02,679 --> 00:54:11,399 proof that that that it's real. And I was, all right. Because again, sides of me were 278 00:54:20,119 --> 00:54:26,679 to her. I was the perpetrator. Yeah, I did. That's, that's again, we're making her fee... 279 00:54:26,679 --> 00:54:34,599 exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry about that, too. I'm just going to say. Yeah. Yeah, I'... 280 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:38,600 Yeah 281 00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:40,600 That's very painful that that 282 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:46,120 So it's not really coming out of denial. I mean the denial is that 283 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:55,400 It's about you it continues. I mean she feels something and there's like maybe a flicker... 284 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,800 responsibility because it's all your fault of 285 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,800 Making her feel this way 286 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:11,240 It's a problem. There's a sentence that says I have to carry it and I want to carry it.... 287 00:55:11,240 --> 00:55:18,160 Take let me take it take the pain of the perpetrator 288 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,680 Pay perpetrators even yeah, okay, I'll carry it all it's totally 289 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:36,400 Believe that I have the strength and I don't have the strength to 290 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,000 Carry that but the the voice telling me 291 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,760 Inside me is very strong that says 292 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,960 yeah, I 293 00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:47,960 Will I will carry it and 294 00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:53,240 Yeah, I just hope that healing will continue to relieve me of that 295 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,920 so 296 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:09,240 Maybe the voice is saying I still have a choice. It's trying to show tell me that 297 00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:15,080 It's a powerful to trying to feel some power in the powerlessness and 298 00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:22,960 Exactly. Yeah, but it's also true that you do have the strength not so so much to carry 299 00:56:28,720 --> 00:56:34,880 So you've been carrying it anyway, and you do have the strength and what I mean by stren... 300 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:41,960 Look, you've had the strength with this mindset. I carry it all for them, which I ... 301 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:50,039 That means as a martyr a martyr is different from a victim a martyr is the one who 302 00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:52,400 But you're the one who goes to healing 303 00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:01,039 Mm-hmm trying to understand 304 00:57:01,039 --> 00:57:05,800 Yeah, yeah the child that carries everything is 305 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,360 Very strong 306 00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:14,160 It's amazing how children are able to I mean they're looking around the children and I'... 307 00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:20,920 The reproaches they're getting from their grown-ups and and it's so it seems like wo... 308 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:33,600 I'm so grateful that I think something in me decided to do it differently with my 309 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:35,600 I'm very sorry that I 310 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,280 Got them mixed up with especially my older daughter 311 00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:46,800 I I couldn't touch her that was one of the biggest pains or I touched her, but I wasn... 312 00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:59,840 I could just I got as far as to really really connect with the part that wanted to run away 313 00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:06,880 Screaming as soon as my daughter needed to hold me or be held by me and hold my hand 314 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:11,080 and I felt more real then when I let this 315 00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,440 escaping and 316 00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,360 she hasn't given up 317 00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:27,280 Trying to hug me and and she's she knows that 318 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:33,200 She says oh here. She calls the inner kittens are trying to get away stay 319 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,760 she'll call me back and 320 00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:40,080 She's very patient and yeah, it was very very very worried 321 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:52,200 Present yes, but it keeps being worked out and 322 00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,560 Obviously 323 00:58:55,560 --> 00:59:02,280 It's not the same kind of trauma that you had by any stretch of the imagination, so 324 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,840 It seems that you having your daughters 325 00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:24,760 You know want to be better so that you can be present that for your daughters is like th... 326 00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,360 facing this darkness and 327 00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:32,720 But again, it does require the strength 328 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,880 tremendous strength 329 00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:43,240 The whatever ways that we do, but you did you survive. That's to say that's 330 00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:50,620 Your true self survived part of your true self survived and then the healing brings ... 331 00:59:50,620 --> 00:59:53,640 ongoing integration process so 332 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,680 No, I do I do think you 333 00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:04,680 You know, I know that martyr very well, I always thought I can carry it for all of them 334 01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,000 But then if you heal 335 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,400 That's 336 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:22,460 When you need all that strength, you know to heal and ultimately 337 01:00:22,460 --> 01:00:29,320 You are carrying it a little bit for those perpetrators as well because you're as you 338 01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:33,720 You are giving them something as well. I believe 339 01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:38,840 And I've had 340 01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,960 amazing helpers and 341 01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:49,320 You know blessed that somehow doesn't fit with the these drastic inner 342 01:00:49,320 --> 01:01:01,320 Contradictions inside to have be so grateful and at the same time I had to though is in 343 01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:03,480 saying 344 01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:05,480 to fit under one hat 345 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,800 And I how does all that fit under one hat? 346 01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:15,160 Under a root bring or pass and 347 01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:19,000 To feel grateful for 348 01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:24,760 And and and the most amazing helpers have been the most hurt ones 349 01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,840 And 350 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:33,720 Yeah, that's the crazy part where 351 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,960 understand 352 01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:43,960 um and and 353 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:46,520 and the the the um 354 01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:53,800 How do you say gegenseitig the other side the other side so the opposite the opposite an... 355 01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:58,360 Um, I have that word on my tongue 356 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:18,360 Yeah, there's to be able to carry each other through it. Um 357 01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:22,680 Yeah, it's been it seems like just miracles 358 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,280 carrying us and 359 01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:30,680 Through through from one step to the next from one fragment to the next 360 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:41,640 And and then again here comes the voice saying ah, I shouldn't make a big deal of ... 361 01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:45,880 That's that's a very big strong voice. Um 362 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:49,400 but there's 363 01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:57,160 For for myself and many and others and and and and victim survivors is better than to 364 01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:19,079 Yeah, and my husband has been uh, yeah, I don't know where that's coming from that h... 365 01:03:19,079 --> 01:03:25,000 Yeah, maybe because you're a wonderful person. Yeah 366 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,400 yeah 367 01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:37,079 And and to 368 01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:39,320 Pull back in in some safe 369 01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:42,200 place sometimes sometimes these safe 370 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:46,200 Ways are 371 01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,600 Healthy sometimes not so healthy and they have to be changed over time but um 372 01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:55,960 Even for those I I've learned to be grateful and sure. Yeah 373 01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:00,360 Again the gratitude is um 374 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:05,640 I would say it's a spiritual component of healing, you know that 375 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:08,840 You 376 01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:10,840 I am I too feel very grateful 377 01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:13,560 There's this gratitude because 378 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,440 I personally for me it's that I'm able to love 379 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,400 That I wasn't able to do at all 380 01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:23,960 And I've learned to love in the healing processes each part 381 01:04:28,760 --> 01:04:35,320 First someone else who's there who's kind and then myself even I can get the distance an... 382 01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,520 understanding and that love even to my own parts 383 01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:43,000 And find healing that way, but it always comes from beyond 384 01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,840 Just to align with the the truth 385 01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:53,160 that actually is the same as love um on the spiritual level to 386 01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:57,800 Is that's a beautiful? 387 01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:01,880 It's a really beautiful and then when you come from so far like 388 01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,520 you and I have then 389 01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:06,680 you have 390 01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:12,440 So much I feel the gratitude is so poignant because when you know what you've lived 391 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:15,880 And you really know 392 01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:23,240 You know and you can breathe fresh air and you can feel grateful, you know or somethi... 393 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,200 but yeah, I 394 01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:28,440 I can only say that it feels 395 01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:33,240 Yeah, and there's many 396 01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:39,320 Names for it, but I can feel there's god it feels suddenly sparkling and 397 01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:43,560 It can be driving in the car and it suddenly feels like it's 398 01:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,440 something sliding up or I'm 399 01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:55,160 Able to see sparkle and in others and and everything seems sweet suddenly. Yeah 400 01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:59,320 And I 401 01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:04,280 Know that that is possible because it's also comes from where it's very dark 402 01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,320 Where that's where it 403 01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:13,400 Also lives in a in a way. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely 404 01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,160 And that yeah 405 01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,280 And 406 01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:27,320 My that's that's where again, I'm very great for my daughters have picked up this spark... 407 01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:30,520 and 408 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,840 Now they're having to bear being a little different in in their friend 409 01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,360 friend circles are in school, but 410 01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,760 They're still it seems strong enough to 411 01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,280 Yeah, head for that side and 412 01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:55,000 You know, it's it's it's clear that when there's 413 01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:59,800 That light that's there that that is what guides us through 414 01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:01,720 um 415 01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,280 So I just wanted to clarify a little bit because 416 01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:11,240 I um also because I know you you know, so we spoke about the first three years which wa... 417 01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:15,160 um, there was definitely that abuse then 418 01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:23,480 Clearly there are also things happened when you came back to germany, correct? 419 01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:32,920 Yeah, because my body then in the memories, uh looks older feels older 420 01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:37,160 Um and um 421 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:44,680 Still my memories are so, uh 422 01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,480 They're just mainly strong body memories 423 01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:55,160 I can't say mainly, but uh, that's why I for the longest time thought 424 01:07:55,160 --> 01:08:02,520 This was all before I developed speech or language. Um and learned to uh speak 425 01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:07,240 Um 426 01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:13,480 But then it's it gets mixed up with um 427 01:08:45,199 --> 01:08:47,199 And what is home then? 428 01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:39,199 I can't see their faces because they're, it's dark with cloth around them, the heads and 429 01:09:41,199 --> 01:09:43,199 And I'm in the middle, yeah. 430 01:09:43,199 --> 01:09:58,199 And it's always, it seems like I was too young to really realize what country I am ... 431 01:14:46,199 --> 01:14:51,199 And then from then on, that's the end, I don't, I don't know anymore. 432 01:16:14,199 --> 01:16:15,199 Yeah. 433 01:16:15,199 --> 01:16:16,199 Yeah. 434 01:16:16,199 --> 01:16:27,199 So he's not so important in that sense, that's the people that you need to attach ... 435 01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:52,199 Yeah. 436 01:17:06,199 --> 01:17:17,199 And I get there, but I'm in total and in sudden shock because I realize when I craw... 437 01:17:19,199 --> 01:17:24,199 I don't know, is it, is it a doll? 438 01:17:24,199 --> 01:17:27,199 Is it again, something choreographed? 439 01:17:27,199 --> 01:17:30,199 Is it, is it a person that's not alive anymore? 440 01:17:30,199 --> 01:17:33,199 I don't see blood, but it's, it's very, it's hard. 441 01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:35,199 It's a very strange texture. 442 01:17:35,199 --> 01:17:41,199 And I don't feel, I don't think I feel skin, but I'm. 443 01:17:49,199 --> 01:18:08,199 I tried to, with my therapeutic methods, I tried to stay a bit more present to heal a 444 01:18:17,199 --> 01:18:26,199 It's not a ritual, but it's something to scare a child very much. 445 01:18:40,199 --> 01:18:44,199 Yeah, yeah. 446 01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:59,199 Some, I think something gave up very deeply of looking for, and then again with what I 447 01:18:59,199 --> 01:19:04,199 I can somehow, I'm supposed to, so I can carry it alone. 448 01:19:22,199 --> 01:19:24,199 Yeah, that, that was a strong message. 449 01:19:24,199 --> 01:19:26,199 Yeah. 450 01:19:38,199 --> 01:19:44,199 And then sometimes in that sort of atmosphere, there's no boundaries. 451 01:19:53,199 --> 01:19:57,199 Was it like that for you? 452 01:19:57,199 --> 01:19:59,199 Yeah, spoiled. 453 01:20:33,199 --> 01:20:41,199 And one was to go to a place where I love to take care of a pony or two, and on the 454 01:20:46,199 --> 01:21:01,199 And so I, yeah, and it seemed like it was all for me and all had to do with this, trying... 455 01:21:17,199 --> 01:21:21,199 So really, this family was a lot about saving animals. 456 01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:41,199 And in me, there's a lot of, well, he saved many people's lives. 457 01:21:41,199 --> 01:21:47,199 Yeah, my mother, she was all into going to organizations to save the world. 458 01:21:49,199 --> 01:21:56,199 But eventually, in therapy, I was asked now, and then what about you? 459 01:21:56,199 --> 01:21:59,199 And this thing is like, okay, about me. 460 01:21:56,300 --> 01:21:59,319 And this thing is like, "Okay, about me?" 461 01:21:59,319 --> 01:22:05,399 It's still very uncomfortable that it's about me, like, yeah. 462 01:22:05,399 --> 01:22:15,399 Even in an interview that, yeah, I'm given that possibility, is to accept and receive 463 01:22:15,399 --> 01:22:17,199 that really. 464 01:22:24,639 --> 01:22:25,639 me as well. 465 01:22:25,639 --> 01:22:31,399 Well, it should finally be about you, because that attention about going to, you know, the 466 01:22:31,399 --> 01:22:39,279 pony farm or whatever, that's a lot of so-called positive attention on what was 467 01:22:39,279 --> 01:22:46,519 problem that they wanted to fix in you, that they weren't going to go to the real cause, 468 01:22:48,679 --> 01:22:55,139 So you're actually getting this negative imprint, because it's all about your probl... 469 01:22:55,139 --> 01:22:58,159 you're doing all these fun things. 470 01:22:58,159 --> 01:23:05,119 So you're getting the message that you should think they're so great, but you're just 471 01:23:05,119 --> 01:23:07,359 Or am I wrong? 472 01:23:21,840 --> 01:23:22,840 a while. 473 01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:30,880 And then really, my mind just spun around wanting to have horses, and I drove people 474 01:23:41,159 --> 01:23:49,319 overwhelm, and keeping the family in a safe, denial state. 475 01:23:49,319 --> 01:23:55,439 Yeah, that they're such nice people, yeah. 476 01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:57,239 Yeah. 477 01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:20,239 Yeah, there was always a sense of danger, and for example, we had soldiers come stay 478 01:24:29,359 --> 01:24:33,479 that couldn't go home to their own families, they could take in some soldiers, and I was 479 01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:34,479 just. 480 01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:35,479 Are these American soldiers then? 481 01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:37,559 Yeah, American soldiers, yeah. 482 01:24:37,559 --> 01:24:45,639 And at that time, I was seven or eight, and I was, I could say in love with these soldiers 483 01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:59,319 And I was also afraid all night, I think I couldn't sleep all night because I was afraid 484 01:24:59,319 --> 01:25:02,559 they were gonna rape me. 485 01:25:02,559 --> 01:25:07,000 But during the day, I wanted to play, there were some, we played board games, which now 486 01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:12,639 I could throughout the child of my children, I couldn't play any games without being numb 487 01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:22,639 an obsession, I was getting on everybody's nerves, not yeah. 488 01:25:22,639 --> 01:25:31,359 So that for example, I was scared, there was a lot of fear that again had to be 489 01:25:31,359 --> 01:25:37,039 because it was into into different parts. 490 01:25:43,720 --> 01:25:48,880 then also the fear, yeah, both. 491 01:25:48,880 --> 01:25:58,720 That's a very strange side to come to peace with is the side that wants to connect to 492 01:26:11,079 --> 01:26:18,680 standing beside myself saying, "What am I doing trying to console them so deeply?" 493 01:26:30,239 --> 01:26:43,359 It's feels like a big lie at the same time, but also very common, yeah, and then other 494 01:26:54,079 --> 01:27:00,119 Well, it is also common from narcissistic parents who are also then, you know, crossing 495 01:27:00,119 --> 01:27:09,079 those boundaries, like there's no boundaries left at all, but that this is emotionally 496 01:27:10,399 --> 01:27:15,760 So there is always that victim feeling when you're around them, you know, what he's going 497 01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:22,559 to do is, you know, you're the little person who loves him by nature from being his 498 01:27:22,559 --> 01:27:25,199 you know, every little girl loves their father. 499 01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:27,319 I did, yeah. 500 01:27:27,319 --> 01:27:32,680 And then just to use that then to receive the love, you know, the or semblance of love 501 01:27:42,519 --> 01:27:47,359 with the abuse that you have to do it even more or else. 502 01:27:47,359 --> 01:27:52,000 So it's very understandable and I understand and, you know, again, I want to thank you 503 01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:57,719 for being so brave to speak about this and to speak so honestly about all the different 504 01:28:10,199 --> 01:28:17,279 of integration and speaking about the dissociation and the different parts and, ... 505 01:28:17,279 --> 01:28:23,479 trying to create a story when you don't have one, you know, my story is very I've put it 506 01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:36,519 pieces are put in place, the story evolves as well. 507 01:28:36,519 --> 01:28:44,079 And someone who has never been in a healing process does not understand any of this at 508 01:28:44,079 --> 01:28:45,719 all. 509 01:28:45,719 --> 01:28:53,239 It's like if the world is divided into it's people who have a healing process who have, 510 01:28:57,239 --> 01:29:03,039 narcissistic myself, you know, so egocentric from all the trauma, to break through that, 511 01:29:03,039 --> 01:29:10,599 to open up, to open the heart, to break, to let the heart break and let the feelings in 512 01:29:10,599 --> 01:29:13,079 to begin this process of growth. 513 01:29:13,079 --> 01:29:19,639 And if you haven't done that, you have no idea what we're talking about. 514 01:29:25,159 --> 01:29:29,880 through that, they have no idea. 515 01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:36,639 It's interesting that those are the people who will also not believe and so forth, but 516 01:29:36,639 --> 01:29:45,279 most people who have a sense of truth just know. 517 01:29:50,539 --> 01:29:59,239 and at the same time just so brutally honest with yourself and with others now today. 518 01:29:59,239 --> 01:30:04,880 So again, I just want to thank you very, very much for being here. 519 01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:05,880 Yeah, thanks. 520 01:30:05,880 --> 01:30:15,119 A lot has to do with being able to work with you and for the longest time I thought, and 521 01:30:21,079 --> 01:30:27,719 The body has to be able to have its flight and flight completions. 522 01:30:27,719 --> 01:30:31,199 And so I was hoping for that, I did a lot of that. 523 01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:37,479 And then, but then when not actually not too long ago, it's been like two or three years 524 01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:44,399 ago that I have had to really say, okay, now I'm going to have to open to more 525 01:30:56,279 --> 01:31:07,479 German suddenly, it's too drastic, it's too much, too intense, too bloody, too horrific. 526 01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,559 pictures will just stay hidden. 527 01:31:17,559 --> 01:31:24,639 Yeah, yes, I think it's actually a bypass to say that you don't have to have the memories. 528 01:31:24,639 --> 01:31:29,519 You do need to have the memories, otherwise you don't have the truth. 529 01:31:29,519 --> 01:31:31,880 The memory is the truth. 530 01:31:31,880 --> 01:31:35,840 And you do need it, you can't bypass it, you can't let it get out of you. 531 01:31:38,479 --> 01:31:43,519 If you don't have it, if you don't know what is getting on coming, if there's some energy 532 01:31:43,519 --> 01:31:48,319 leaving your body for a moment, it'll just come back. 533 01:31:48,319 --> 01:31:50,079 It's actually what perpetrators do. 534 01:31:50,079 --> 01:31:55,599 They try to run away from their trauma, and they get a release for a moment. 535 01:31:55,599 --> 01:31:59,439 And then they have to do it again, because it just doesn't doesn't fill anything. 536 01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:00,639 It doesn't fill that hole. 537 01:32:06,199 --> 01:32:12,279 You're beginning to know what happened, and therefore who you are. 538 01:32:12,279 --> 01:32:20,079 And that's why in a crazy way it was very relieving to then say, okay, now we're 539 01:32:20,079 --> 01:32:25,519 up and just strong. 540 01:32:31,319 --> 01:32:35,279 It was too tight, kept too small all this time. 541 01:32:35,279 --> 01:32:44,479 And here again with one reason why the silence thing goes on is like I was in a 542 01:32:44,479 --> 01:32:53,079 group with my friend who's been present here helping in her way. 543 01:33:02,519 --> 01:33:09,399 and connected, sorry, not violently, but silently, deeply. 544 01:33:09,399 --> 01:33:13,479 And somehow with knowing, very strong knowing. 545 01:33:25,359 --> 01:33:32,039 be maybe I used it to keep it hidden in some ways as well. 546 01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:47,159 and ritualized way. 547 01:33:47,159 --> 01:33:53,960 Well, it's very difficult to find any space to really be able to freely share about those 548 01:33:53,960 --> 01:34:00,880 things that includes anonymous groups, for example, it's hard to find a group, it's hard 549 01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:12,960 enough work on themselves, that they can know that this darkness exists and then also be 550 01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:15,800 able to hold it for someone else. 551 01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:24,039 And in these self-help groups, or the one that I was in, it was a screaming silence,... 552 01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:44,359 that were just coming at me visually, energetically mostly, I think. 553 01:34:44,359 --> 01:34:52,519 And somehow now I can speak because that homework was done years ago, I think, and 554 01:34:58,559 --> 01:34:59,559 right now. 555 01:34:59,559 --> 01:35:08,000 I'm not crying, screaming, and doing all the stuff that is there almost every day. 556 01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:17,119 And in phases, because a lot of this stuff was kind of integrated or worked on a long 557 01:35:17,119 --> 01:35:20,159 time ago in its very own way. 558 01:35:30,079 --> 01:35:32,079 It's amazing. 559 01:35:32,079 --> 01:35:36,439 Yes, it's amazing. 560 01:35:36,439 --> 01:35:39,359 And so now we do have a space. 561 01:35:33,500 --> 01:35:36,219 - Yes, it's amazing. 562 01:35:36,219 --> 01:35:40,000 And so now we do have a space, 563 01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:42,359 and more and more people are open, 564 01:35:42,359 --> 01:35:45,479 very beautiful progression over the years 565 01:35:45,479 --> 01:35:48,000 that I've noticed in people's ability to hold. 566 01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,559 And I'm sure that many people will be able 567 01:35:50,559 --> 01:35:54,399 to hold our conversation and the truth that you've spoken. 568 01:35:54,399 --> 01:35:58,239 And as a very last question, 569 01:36:00,279 --> 01:36:03,079 of how it ended for you? 570 01:36:03,079 --> 01:36:10,960 - Recently, I got a very strong impulse memory 571 01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:14,079 that it was my father who brought me out. 572 01:36:14,079 --> 01:36:16,500 I was so surprised. 573 01:36:16,500 --> 01:36:22,319 And that's also a reason why I'm, 574 01:36:22,319 --> 01:36:25,679 that strengthens the attachment to him, 575 01:36:29,799 --> 01:36:36,559 Yeah, again, I can't say anything about the logistics. 576 01:36:36,559 --> 01:36:38,319 - Or your age. 577 01:36:38,319 --> 01:36:39,399 - Or my age. 578 01:36:39,399 --> 01:36:44,319 I'm pretty sure there's more gonna be coming through me 579 01:36:44,319 --> 01:36:46,359 to, if it's necessary. 580 01:36:46,359 --> 01:36:47,199 And... 581 01:36:56,920 --> 01:36:58,759 that I was not interesting anymore. 582 01:36:58,759 --> 01:37:03,759 I was too dangerous for the circles for... 583 01:37:03,759 --> 01:37:06,519 - That's the key. 584 01:37:06,519 --> 01:37:09,000 - There's something that came out, 585 01:37:09,000 --> 01:37:14,000 or maybe I was too dumb, or too clever, or... 586 01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:20,279 - Too dangerous means that you are who you are 587 01:37:22,199 --> 01:37:26,399 It's not as if you were not that same person then, 588 01:37:26,399 --> 01:37:28,159 even though you were a child. 589 01:37:28,159 --> 01:37:32,639 And then I was also considered a problem and dangerous. 590 01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:39,199 And for their purposes, we certainly are. 591 01:37:39,199 --> 01:37:43,479 So if you don't really want fully to be part of it 592 01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:49,359 and you have that distance, then you're not... 593 01:37:51,079 --> 01:37:54,439 It's that, you know, it's surprising though 594 01:37:54,439 --> 01:37:57,399 that then your father was able to take you out. 595 01:37:57,399 --> 01:38:04,239 But yes, again, it seems that what you said 596 01:38:04,239 --> 01:38:06,960 is I became dangerous to them or whatever, 597 01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:09,359 too much of something that they don't want, 598 01:38:09,359 --> 01:38:15,639 I think is that the key that you were already showing signs 599 01:38:19,960 --> 01:38:24,199 - Yeah, and I know as a child, I hated lies, 600 01:38:24,199 --> 01:38:27,439 and there were many lies going on in our family, 601 01:38:27,439 --> 01:38:32,439 very many lies, and I did connect to my family, 602 01:38:32,439 --> 01:38:41,559 my parents are therapists. 603 01:38:41,559 --> 01:38:45,960 They are truth-searching people, partly at least. 604 01:38:50,759 --> 01:38:54,159 but I hated therapy, of course, 605 01:38:54,159 --> 01:38:57,519 I didn't want to be transparent or used 606 01:38:57,519 --> 01:39:01,719 for therapeutics experiments. 607 01:39:01,719 --> 01:39:08,920 I hated that, but then I even went through the training 608 01:39:08,920 --> 01:39:13,479 of becoming a therapist myself. 609 01:39:16,519 --> 01:39:21,519 and the truth of the body and couldn't do any of that anymore. 610 01:39:21,519 --> 01:39:23,839 I couldn't dance, I couldn't move, 611 01:39:23,839 --> 01:39:28,839 which was a very terrible grief about that or still can't. 612 01:39:28,839 --> 01:39:36,199 But yeah, but your question about how to come out of it, 613 01:39:36,199 --> 01:39:41,000 how has I brought out of it? 614 01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:52,119 that right now comes to me right about that. 615 01:39:52,119 --> 01:39:55,000 - Yeah, that was gonna be my last question, 616 01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:56,879 but I realized I forgot something. 617 01:39:56,879 --> 01:39:59,920 So I know that it's getting long, 618 01:39:59,920 --> 01:40:03,399 so I don't want to keep you any too long. 619 01:40:03,399 --> 01:40:06,439 And so just if you don't feel like it's right 620 01:40:06,439 --> 01:40:08,559 to answer this, please feel free. 621 01:40:11,759 --> 01:40:14,679 that you felt that the main purpose 622 01:40:14,679 --> 01:40:17,279 that the network had for you had to do with research 623 01:40:17,279 --> 01:40:21,319 and that the sexuality was secondary. 624 01:40:21,319 --> 01:40:25,819 Is there anything that you would like to share about that? 625 01:40:25,819 --> 01:40:35,759 - Mainly I want to say, 626 01:40:40,759 --> 01:40:44,199 please protect yourself 'cause it's dangerous." 627 01:40:44,199 --> 01:40:46,039 That's what's coming out right now. 628 01:40:46,039 --> 01:40:50,739 But meaning I'm speaking from this perpetrator 629 01:40:50,739 --> 01:40:55,739 imitating part or not so imitating that it, 630 01:40:55,739 --> 01:41:00,000 it still wants to help people protect from me, 631 01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:02,199 so it can't be the perpetrator entirely. 632 01:41:07,199 --> 01:41:24,359 on things and I didn't realize it until not too long ago 633 01:41:24,359 --> 01:41:27,399 because I thought it's normal. 634 01:41:27,399 --> 01:41:31,799 Everybody has these fixated, this fixated, 635 01:41:35,319 --> 01:41:40,319 but at the same time, it seems like it needs to be said 636 01:41:40,319 --> 01:41:43,759 that there's, it has something very, 637 01:41:43,759 --> 01:41:54,879 what do you call the people that watch in a sexual way? 638 01:41:54,879 --> 01:41:56,639 - Oh, voyeur. 639 01:41:56,639 --> 01:41:58,879 - Voyeur, it has something about that. 640 01:42:03,879 --> 01:42:08,279 on the perpetrator's side as a way of protecting 641 01:42:08,279 --> 01:42:10,219 that what's very painful. 642 01:42:10,219 --> 01:42:14,719 Again, it's gonna be very hard for people to understand 643 01:42:14,719 --> 01:42:17,799 who have not had that experience, 644 01:42:17,799 --> 01:42:22,799 but that's where this research part comes in. 645 01:42:29,879 --> 01:42:33,679 under traumatic and overwhelming situations. 646 01:42:33,679 --> 01:42:38,599 - So basically you as a child were used for research 647 01:42:38,599 --> 01:42:41,159 in that things were done to you 648 01:42:41,159 --> 01:42:43,199 to see how you would react. 649 01:42:43,199 --> 01:42:45,679 So you had people who were actually checking 650 01:42:45,679 --> 01:42:50,679 and maybe writing down timings and reactions of yours. 651 01:42:50,679 --> 01:42:54,479 And again, your survival mechanism, 652 01:42:59,079 --> 01:43:00,559 and body of the perpetrator 653 01:43:00,559 --> 01:43:02,879 so that you could feel it from their point of view 654 01:43:02,879 --> 01:43:06,779 so that you could do it better in a way to be safe, correct? 655 01:43:06,779 --> 01:43:12,000 - Yeah, and there's a very, yeah, exactly. 656 01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:16,279 And it somehow doesn't feel like punishment. 657 01:43:16,279 --> 01:43:19,159 It feels more like research oriented. 658 01:43:19,159 --> 01:43:20,000 And 659 01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:30,479 and then also as it varies the effect it has is, 660 01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:49,199 yeah, I mean, you've said it many times 661 01:43:49,199 --> 01:43:50,839 to be part of the circles, 662 01:43:50,839 --> 01:43:53,759 to strengthen that attachment. 663 01:43:54,559 --> 01:43:55,719 Very strong. 664 01:43:55,719 --> 01:44:00,960 - To make you feel you belong? 665 01:44:00,960 --> 01:44:05,799 - Yeah, I guess it's still hard for me to believe 666 01:44:05,799 --> 01:44:10,799 that the perpetrators are that clever to on purpose 667 01:44:10,799 --> 01:44:18,519 do the traumatic things to then make the victims 668 01:44:25,319 --> 01:44:29,920 feel as a dissociative process, 669 01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:31,879 feel the perpetrator even more 670 01:44:31,879 --> 01:44:38,719 and through that on their side for safety reasons then. 671 01:44:38,719 --> 01:44:40,599 - Well, it makes you obey. 672 01:44:40,599 --> 01:44:41,439 - Yeah. 673 01:44:41,439 --> 01:44:48,199 But yeah, it seems like it's a science that has grown 674 01:44:48,199 --> 01:44:51,000 in a long, long, long, long time. 675 01:44:56,000 --> 01:45:04,639 of experiments on so many children and people. 676 01:45:04,639 --> 01:45:09,340 And so there must be a lot of data. 677 01:45:09,340 --> 01:45:13,559 - Well, yes, certainly from my experience, 678 01:45:13,559 --> 01:45:17,119 I was not experimented on, not researched, 679 01:45:21,359 --> 01:45:24,039 They used that whatever research they had 680 01:45:24,039 --> 01:45:26,840 and they knew exactly what they were doing 681 01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:29,279 to get very precise results. 682 01:45:29,279 --> 01:45:31,039 So that was my experience. 683 01:45:31,039 --> 01:45:32,119 I was very impressed. 684 01:45:32,119 --> 01:45:36,159 But yes, indeed, that requires a lot of research, 685 01:45:36,159 --> 01:45:37,639 of course, on human subjects. 686 01:45:37,639 --> 01:45:41,199 So, you know, again, I'm very sorry that it was, 687 01:45:48,679 --> 01:45:53,840 like beyond the pale to think that they would use 688 01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:58,759 a child's love, you know, or ability to survive 689 01:45:58,759 --> 01:46:00,840 and know exactly what would happen 690 01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:04,519 or just see what would happen and how it would affect you 691 01:46:04,519 --> 01:46:10,479 and then use that as cold information 692 01:46:10,479 --> 01:46:13,920 to create mind control. 693 01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:18,579 And this, for some reason, this pops up is that this, 694 01:46:18,579 --> 01:46:24,759 it seems like it's a war against life. 695 01:46:24,759 --> 01:46:29,759 And, but also it's an attempt to pull out the peer, 696 01:46:29,759 --> 01:46:35,759 something pure from the children. 697 01:46:35,759 --> 01:46:38,959 And because that's what is left behind 698 01:46:44,959 --> 01:46:51,239 and filthy feeling that, yeah, that comes up and it's, yeah. 699 01:46:51,239 --> 01:47:01,319 Yeah, more work to do 700 01:47:01,319 --> 01:47:06,759 and to allow people to reflect back 701 01:47:06,759 --> 01:47:08,359 that maybe I'm not that dirty. 702 01:47:09,479 --> 01:47:11,239 That's for sure. 703 01:47:11,239 --> 01:47:14,359 I can reflect that back right now in a very big way. 704 01:47:14,359 --> 01:47:17,879 And that also does not succeed 705 01:47:17,879 --> 01:47:19,840 in taking that light away from you. 706 01:47:19,840 --> 01:47:23,119 And yes, it is a death cult, absolutely. 707 01:47:23,119 --> 01:47:25,439 It's very well put, actually, how you said it. 708 01:47:25,439 --> 01:47:29,239 It's all about killing the light, 709 01:47:29,239 --> 01:47:32,319 reversing everything, turning everything to darkness. 710 01:47:32,319 --> 01:47:36,559 And yet you're sitting here, a beautiful person today, 711 01:47:39,279 --> 01:47:42,039 strong light, beautiful person. 712 01:47:42,039 --> 01:47:46,739 Yeah, thank you, Ellen.