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How do you put this behind you and move forward?

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That's something I ask each missing person family,

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because I don't understand how you can do that.

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I can't.

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I mean, you know, I want some type of closure.

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I want him to be found.

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One of the most confusing and frustrating investigations

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by law enforcement is related to people who disappear

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in highly rural locations, forests, plains, deserts,

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and regions with few residences.

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These cases offer no witnesses, few clues,

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and a strange lack of evidence.

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Where are these people?

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How did they disappear without leaving a scent trail,

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no tracks, and a distinct lack of physical evidence?

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The investigators left with a distraught family grieving

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about a missing loved one, wanting them found,

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where many times the search area is the size of a national forest.

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My name is David Politis.

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I'm a former San Jose police officer who has worked complex and long-term investigations

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while being assigned to vice intelligence, street crimes, SWAT, and various detective roles.

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I'm a best-selling author investigating missing people in national parks, forests, and rural locations

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for over 20 years.

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The investigative process has led me to interview incredible witnesses

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that tell a fantastic story that challenges the investigative protocols every detective follows.

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We are staring at unconventional possibilities supported by witnesses, video, and most recently, our own government.

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The human species has been walking the earth for thousands of years, hunting, gathering, and observing.

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From the moment we left our cave, we have looked to the skies in amazement and wonder about unidentified objects.

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In just the last 100-plus years, we have left the ground and flown into the clouds

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with a different perspective about our life in this world.

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We've continued to be amazed and perplexed by flying objects that have capabilities

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far beyond what our government says is ours.

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Are these craft piloted by entities that have our best interests?

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Is our planet merely the ant farm for complex societies' light years from Earth?

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Could it be we offer other worlds new DNA that's needed to refurbish their existence?

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Or are they driven by a plan that is so far beyond our capability to comprehend

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that the human mind isn't programmed to accept and live with the consequences?

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Join me on a fact-finding journey that has never been disclosed.

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Keep an open mind on the possibilities and a warm and compassionate heart.

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Keep an open mind on the possibilities for the missing.

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In multiple missing 411 books, it looks like people are snatched out off the ground

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and then some of them are dropped back into these locations, the little kids that are suddenly

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miles and miles away.

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It seems like I know you don't want to commit to any particular explanation because you don't

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have enough evidence to point to one in particular.

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But some of the stuff certainly ventures into the area of the paranormal.

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And one of the stories that I was able to break earlier this year was about Skinwalker Ranch,

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a program that had been created by the Pentagon to look at UFOs also went much further than

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it studied what we would call paranormal events, unexplained mysteries at places like Skinwalker

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Ranch and elsewhere.

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And earlier this year, I was invited to go back by Senator Harry Reid to meet with some

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people whose names I cannot make public.

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One of these guys pulls me aside and then he said, you know, we think that that guy Dave

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Politis, that his mystery with these missing people might be related to the phenomena at

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the ranch.

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But the idea that the phenomena that's been seen there, which is sometimes playful and

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sometimes dangerous, might be related to yours, startled me.

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And I don't know how you react to that, but maybe it makes you uncomfortable being associated

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with anything as weird as that.

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But your stuff's pretty weird, too.

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So after reviewing several thousand missing person cases, several distinct facts started to

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come up and I started to put piles of these reports in different areas of my room that

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indicated certain points of importance.

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And after a while, I started to call these profile points.

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As an example, in 97% of the cases that I research, one of the profile points is that

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canines brought to the scene can't pick up a scent trail.

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They bring trackers to the scene and they can't find tracks leaving the location that the person

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was last seen at.

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So the number one profile point in our work is lack of scent trail.

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Some of the most common profile points would be weather-related issues, either just as the

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person disappears or just after they're missing or when the search starts, there's a weather

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incident that inhibits the searcher's ability to find the individual.

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Another one is the victim found in an area that was previously searched.

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Oftentimes, an area will be searched five, six, seven times.

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And then all of a sudden, when they're getting ready to pull out, the search and rescue says

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we give up.

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They find the person in the middle of the area that had been searched many, many times.

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Oftentimes, when somebody goes missing, they go missing in an area near water or boulders

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or swamps and bogs.

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And once these profile points were established, and this is after reading thousands of reports,

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I started to document them and say, okay, if these are going to be the profile points

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that we use moving forward, then these will be the ones that we have to look for in the

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reports as they come in.

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This has become the overshadowing criteria for a missing 411 case.

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And in this instance, we're in Vancouver, British Columbia, and we're researching a case

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of a missing hunter, someone who had visited the same location 20 times in 20 years.

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It's a location that he and his wife have come to many times.

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In this instance, he came out alone.

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He brought his dogs, his camper, and his raft, do a little fishing, sightseeing, and just relaxing

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in nature.

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And he disappeared on the shores of Harrison Lake, and we still don't know what really

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happened to Ray Salmon.

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Ray was an outdoor camper, hunter, fisherman.

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Grew up in the woods, northern Ontario, very experienced and a safe outdoorsman.

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32 years, we were married together for about a year and a half before that.

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He would have rather gone hunting, camping with me than with anyone else.

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He was always telling me that, but I'm a fair weather camper.

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I would not have been out in the bush if it wasn't for Ray.

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Ray made it wonderful.

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At the time I met him, he was about 65, just recently retired.

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He worked for Rogers Sugar in Vancouver as chief maintenance man.

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He was empathetic.

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He was concerned about what you felt about something, which is rare today.

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And I liked that.

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I enjoyed his company.

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He's the type of guy who's from the old school.

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He had this adventurous spirit.

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He had a map of British Columbia in a booklet form.

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Very seldom would I find a blank page, part of this province, that Ray hadn't visited.

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So he drove up to Harrison Lake from your home here.

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Right.

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In a truck with a camper.

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Right.

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And what else did he have with him?

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A fridge, a furnace, air conditioner, a few rifles, and maybe a couple pistols with him.

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And he took his Zodiac with him, and a motor on the Zodiac.

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He had a complete life jacket, good flotation device.

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So fully equipped.

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He had the two dogs, and if anything comes around, they would bark.

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He'd been to this spot many times before.

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Many times, because you can get there when he was still working.

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He could go Friday after work and get there and set up camp, and been with him a couple

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of times.

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We've gone for a week at a time.

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And again, for clarity, he doesn't go and just sit at his camper all day.

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No.

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He's out going over the hillsides, walking around.

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And so he's been all through the mountainsides in this area many times in the past.

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Correct.

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He says, oh yeah, I'm going to camp down by the lake in this certain spot.

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So he says, I've got to get going now, because I've got to set up camp before dark.

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That's the last time I've seen him.

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We were planning to go out up the lake and look for old gold mines.

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He says, I'll come down in the Zodiac and pick you up on Monday morning.

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On Sunday afternoon, I was doing some repair work on a trailer up here, and we heard three

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gunshots.

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Home alone, downstairs, watching TV, and the doorbell rings, and it was a Vancouver City

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police officer.

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And she was asking if Ray Salman is home.

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I said, well, what is it?

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What's wrong?

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Why are you asking me this?

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And she said she didn't have any information, and I couldn't contact Ray, even though he

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had a cell phone.

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There wasn't any cell phone coverage at Harrison Lake.

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I think I phoned the RCMP at about five in the morning, and they were very brief.

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They never gave me any details at the time.

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They just said, he's missing.

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So I didn't know if he was walking with a dog somewhere and didn't make it back.

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And as he said to me, if you're injured, if you're in the woods and you're injured, you

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wait for them to come to you.

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Don't start trying to crawl around, wasting energy if you can't.

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They will come, and they will look for you.

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And I thought, okay, I know what's happened now.

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A call came in about going out to search for a possible missing person at this spot.

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The team knew I was actually, I had a lot of experience in this area, so I was one of

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the first team members to arrive at that scene that day.

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When we showed up, his truck and camper were right at this very spot.

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All his belongings were kind of laid out under the tarp.

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And his truck and camper looked in great shape.

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The RCMP goes up.

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They find the truck and the camper locked.

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Dogs inside, two dogs, and nobody's around.

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If Ray went out for a hike, would he take the dogs?

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Definitely.

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So he wouldn't leave them in there?

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Never leave the dogs.

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This is what he's got the dogs for.

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So in your mind, why would he lock the camper door?

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Unless it was a danger to the dogs.

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But what kind of danger would be there to the dogs?

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It was the strangest thing.

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I've never showed up to a search where we had full ERT members.

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And there was guys with fully automatic weapons.

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And I remember it very specifically because I've never showed up to a search

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where we're searching alongside our emergency response team members.

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I was with the RCMP for 31 years.

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And back here, where I'm from, in the Fraser Valley,

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I was here for 22 years.

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Are you familiar with the Ray Salmon disappearance on Harrison Lake?

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Yes.

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So on a disappearance of a missing person case,

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can you fathom in your own mind why they would send out an RCMP SWAT team?

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For the unanswered questions, are we looking at someone who got murdered?

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Are we looking at somebody who got kidnapped?

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Or they may have a tip that nobody knows about.

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I don't know about top secret kind of stuff.

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I remember an officer telling me kids showed up at the Agassiz RCMP detachment

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saying that their vehicle was shot at.

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And I remember later talking to the RCMP officer

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saying that kids reported their headlights being shot out.

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If he shot out somebody's headlights

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and he was that good of a shot to shoot out the headlights,

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then he was probably trying to get attention to where he was.

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I don't know if I would shoot at someone's car to get attention

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because what's going in my mind is,

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oh my God, what if I accidentally hit someone?

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Now, we know Ray was a responsible hunter,

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had a license to have his guns,

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had hunted for decades.

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So yeah, I'm with you.

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I believe that that is very strange behavior.

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I remember thinking, well, that wouldn't have been Ray.

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Ray wouldn't be shooting.

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If he did anything, as he told me,

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you shoot three times in the air for SOS.

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Now there's more to the story than just Ray missing,

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but not knowing what.

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Right directly behind him was the grad party.

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So the party was happening up over here.

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There was estimated to be about 50 people at that party,

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and there was a massive amount of garbage

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we cleaned up when we got here.

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And they didn't consider that possible evidence as well?

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Something seemed wrong at that point.

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When you hear the search and rescue person's rendition

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of what just happened,

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I don't think in 7,000 cases

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that I've ever heard anything so strange

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as telling a search and rescue group

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to go pick up a grad party's remains of what they left,

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and then coupled with the fact that

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there were shots fired at the scene,

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and they bring in a special weapons team to the area.

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But that wasn't it.

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The more you hear it, the stranger the story gets.

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We would hike for a couple hours in here

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and start grid searching,

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and we would just basically come back to this point

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and then go again.

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Then we also got on ATVs,

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and so we had boats.

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We had two watercraft in the lake at that time

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searching the shoreline air support as well.

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And I remember when I first talked to you,

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you said you were told not to go into the bush.

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On the second day, his belongings were found by air.

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They spotted his clothes.

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Now this is a day, if not two days,

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after the initial search.

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00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:01,720
It wasn't even probably an hour or two after that.

242
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,480
I remember the corporal, the RCMP members,

243
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:07,920
still in uniform, coming out of the bush,

244
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:09,980
saying it's unsearchable.

245
00:15:10,460 --> 00:15:12,940
We found his clothes.

246
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,220
It's not worth it to go in there.

247
00:15:15,620 --> 00:15:17,340
It's so clear because I was like,

248
00:15:17,340 --> 00:15:18,340
nothing is unsearchable.

249
00:15:18,460 --> 00:15:19,300
Why would they all of a sudden

250
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:20,320
just call it that quickly?

251
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:22,940
I asked Adam to show me the location

252
00:15:22,940 --> 00:15:24,840
where Ray's clothes were found.

253
00:15:26,340 --> 00:15:28,300
Strangely, there was even a worn-out

254
00:15:28,300 --> 00:15:29,900
search and rescue tag on a tree.

255
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,400
This is where his clothes were probably

256
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,180
most likely found.

257
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:35,360
It's very old.

258
00:15:35,540 --> 00:15:37,120
Yeah, it would be from that time period.

259
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,480
The search uncovered via helicopter

260
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:45,660
some folded items under a log

261
00:15:45,660 --> 00:15:49,400
and his rifle 400 yards north of his truck

262
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:50,520
right on the beach.

263
00:15:51,820 --> 00:15:55,880
And then over a small hill quite a distance away,

264
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,700
they found his pistol laying in a meadow.

265
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,020
They would give me bits and pieces.

266
00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:02,540
They would call and they would say,

267
00:16:02,540 --> 00:16:04,700
oh, we found Ray's backpack under a tree.

268
00:16:04,940 --> 00:16:06,720
And then later on, they told me

269
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,660
somewhere in a field they found his 9mm.

270
00:16:09,540 --> 00:16:10,360
And I thought,

271
00:16:10,540 --> 00:16:13,860
Ray would never leave a pistol anywhere.

272
00:16:14,540 --> 00:16:16,480
So you're into it a few days.

273
00:16:16,580 --> 00:16:17,860
They found these items.

274
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,660
I read that it was the feeling of the RCMP

275
00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:22,860
that he must be in the water.

276
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:24,600
Is that true?

277
00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:25,660
As they were saying,

278
00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:28,920
oh, we think he must have drowned.

279
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:29,560
And I thought, well,

280
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,320
that doesn't make any sense.

281
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:33,100
His boat is at the campsite.

282
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:35,300
So he wouldn't have fallen off the boat.

283
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:36,360
And if he was on the boat,

284
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,560
he would have had his life jacket on.

285
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:40,820
The official report says he was injured

286
00:16:40,820 --> 00:16:42,380
and got into the water

287
00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:43,980
and was trying to swim back.

288
00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:44,640
And that's how he drowned.

289
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:46,460
But it was hard to believe.

290
00:16:47,300 --> 00:16:48,220
If anybody said,

291
00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:49,520
well, he was stripping his clothes

292
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:50,600
because he had hypothermia.

293
00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:51,740
It wasn't raining.

294
00:16:51,940 --> 00:16:52,900
And it was June.

295
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:54,420
It was warm.

296
00:16:54,420 --> 00:16:58,200
And I was even up at 6,000 feet elevation

297
00:16:58,200 --> 00:16:59,820
and I was in a T-shirt sweating.

298
00:17:00,180 --> 00:17:02,120
They never found any traces

299
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,460
of any blood, animal or human.

300
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:05,800
They even said it was unusual

301
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,500
that they had that many tracking dogs.

302
00:17:08,740 --> 00:17:09,880
I never found a track.

303
00:17:10,460 --> 00:17:11,300
Or a scent.

304
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:12,340
Or a scent.

305
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:14,520
That's an important point.

306
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,180
When you go from the point of the pistol,

307
00:17:18,140 --> 00:17:19,320
from the camper,

308
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,640
to the beach,

309
00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,400
you have an established area

310
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,640
to start from,

311
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:27,740
to go to.

312
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,200
It's not like you're going blindly

313
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:30,900
at this point.

314
00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:32,580
So the dogs should have been able

315
00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:34,700
to track Ray point to point

316
00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:35,880
to point pretty easily.

317
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:37,120
And they didn't.

318
00:17:37,860 --> 00:17:39,500
The RCMP had a search boat

319
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:40,880
combing the shoreline.

320
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:43,960
Ray's wife also hired

321
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,580
a private response team

322
00:17:45,580 --> 00:17:46,080
to come in

323
00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:47,360
and also search the area.

324
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,180
Nobody was ever recovered.

325
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,060
So, Daniella went out

326
00:17:51,060 --> 00:17:52,080
with the search boat

327
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:53,660
and actually spent hours

328
00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:55,560
on scene looking for her husband.

329
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,060
I had arranged with the Ralstons

330
00:17:57,060 --> 00:17:57,760
to come down

331
00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,620
and search for Ray.

332
00:17:59,980 --> 00:18:00,840
Daniella told us

333
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:01,440
from the beginning

334
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:02,540
that she thought

335
00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:04,120
that the RCMP

336
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,120
was pushing this probability

337
00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:07,380
that Ray was in the water.

338
00:18:08,340 --> 00:18:10,020
And talking to search and rescue people,

339
00:18:10,420 --> 00:18:12,340
they didn't necessarily believe

340
00:18:12,340 --> 00:18:13,340
Ray was in the water.

341
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:14,320
And I'm not sure

342
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:15,180
if you guys weren't aware,

343
00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:16,920
but they found his pistol

344
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:18,340
on top of a mountain,

345
00:18:18,340 --> 00:18:19,920
not even anywhere

346
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:20,640
near the water.

347
00:18:21,180 --> 00:18:21,920
And Daniella said,

348
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:22,900
there's no way

349
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:24,800
Ray would lose the pistol.

350
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:25,040
Yeah.

351
00:18:25,580 --> 00:18:26,240
Had you heard that?

352
00:18:26,340 --> 00:18:27,260
We hadn't heard that, no.

353
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,080
So it was interesting.

354
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:29,540
Initially,

355
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:30,440
I don't think they wanted

356
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,400
to give me back

357
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,900
his guns and rifles.

358
00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:35,900
How about the backpacker?

359
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:37,420
No, I didn't get that back.

360
00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:39,600
Don't you think that's odd?

361
00:18:42,460 --> 00:18:43,260
They weren't there

362
00:18:43,260 --> 00:18:44,800
to explain themselves to me.

363
00:18:45,620 --> 00:18:46,640
Ever be a reason

364
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,640
to lie to the victim family?

365
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:49,260
No.

366
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:52,120
Not from police.

367
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:52,500
No.

368
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:54,480
Ever?

369
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:55,020
No.

370
00:18:55,740 --> 00:18:56,040
Never.

371
00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,540
It became blatantly obvious

372
00:18:59,540 --> 00:19:00,360
that the RCMP

373
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:01,800
was withholding information

374
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:02,620
from Daniella.

375
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:04,000
Files obtained

376
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,460
through the Freedom of Information Act

377
00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:07,260
turned up blacked out paragraphs.

378
00:19:07,780 --> 00:19:09,300
I've encountered similar issues

379
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:10,900
through the Freedom of Information Act

380
00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:12,060
and the release of details.

381
00:19:12,620 --> 00:19:14,540
Some of the off-the-record interviews

382
00:19:14,540 --> 00:19:15,720
that we were doing

383
00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,200
alluded to a connection

384
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,720
to some of the local legends

385
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:19,900
and bizarre sightings

386
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:20,740
within this area.

387
00:19:21,220 --> 00:19:22,040
People that go missing

388
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,240
or these things that happen

389
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,160
that don't quite make sense,

390
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,120
it happens in an area

391
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:26,660
where a lot of time

392
00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:27,120
there's gold

393
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:27,920
or there's a history,

394
00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:28,720
there's a legacy,

395
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:29,540
there's legends,

396
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:30,120
there's stories

397
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:31,420
of past occurrences.

398
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:32,200
There's a reason

399
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:32,620
why they're called

400
00:19:32,620 --> 00:19:33,440
Sky Ancestors.

401
00:19:33,980 --> 00:19:36,160
We heard that the RCMP

402
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,080
has a policy about UFOs.

403
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:39,440
Yes.

404
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:40,880
Tell us about that.

405
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:43,020
If you get involved

406
00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:44,480
with a UFO investigation,

407
00:19:45,140 --> 00:19:46,320
it is you hand

408
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:47,460
that information over.

409
00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:49,040
I don't know where it goes.

410
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,880
So somebody somewhere

411
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:52,380
is collecting

412
00:19:52,380 --> 00:19:53,560
and tracking this information.

413
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:54,760
I would say so, yes.

414
00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:56,200
You have to.

415
00:19:57,300 --> 00:19:58,760
You cannot let that stuff go.

416
00:19:59,000 --> 00:19:59,980
And they take it seriously.

417
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:00,340
Yep.

418
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:01,420
Yep.

419
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,320
That information is collected

420
00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:04,980
and wherever it goes

421
00:20:04,980 --> 00:20:07,220
into some secret something.

422
00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:10,520
So during the interview

423
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:11,820
with the RCMP officer

424
00:20:11,820 --> 00:20:12,720
that was retired,

425
00:20:13,540 --> 00:20:14,820
it reminded me

426
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:16,020
of a document

427
00:20:16,020 --> 00:20:17,460
that I saw several years ago.

428
00:20:17,460 --> 00:20:19,520
In March of 1960,

429
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:22,780
the RCMP had a document

430
00:20:22,780 --> 00:20:23,980
that would have been classified

431
00:20:23,980 --> 00:20:24,740
as restricted

432
00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:26,180
that had to do

433
00:20:26,180 --> 00:20:27,940
with the Athabascan Indians

434
00:20:27,940 --> 00:20:30,020
seeing a UFO

435
00:20:30,020 --> 00:20:31,720
in the general area

436
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:32,780
of where Ray Salmon

437
00:20:32,780 --> 00:20:33,260
disappeared.

438
00:20:33,260 --> 00:20:35,740
and that document

439
00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:36,920
in essence

440
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,140
says that

441
00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:39,380
they saw something

442
00:20:39,380 --> 00:20:40,780
that we would consider

443
00:20:40,780 --> 00:20:41,800
today

444
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,080
to be your standard

445
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:44,220
cylindrical UFO.

446
00:20:44,220 --> 00:20:48,940
We were camping once

447
00:20:48,940 --> 00:20:49,360
at a place

448
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:50,440
called Fire Lake

449
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:52,040
and we were just

450
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:52,980
sitting around the campfire

451
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:53,640
in the evening

452
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,680
and there's a large lake

453
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,320
and on the other side

454
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:56,900
there's a mountain

455
00:20:56,900 --> 00:20:59,280
and there wasn't any logging

456
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:00,360
going on at that mountain

457
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:01,480
and we're sitting there

458
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,160
and we could see

459
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,640
a light across the lake.

460
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:04,940
I was saying,

461
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:05,880
oh, there must be logging

462
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:06,600
going on there.

463
00:21:06,820 --> 00:21:08,000
It looks like there's a car.

464
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:09,080
And Ray said,

465
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:09,860
that's not a car.

466
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:10,220
And he goes,

467
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,020
I know for a fact

468
00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:12,420
there wasn't any logging

469
00:21:12,420 --> 00:21:12,800
going on there.

470
00:21:12,860 --> 00:21:13,740
He knows all the roads,

471
00:21:13,860 --> 00:21:14,600
all the back hills.

472
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:15,420
He's hiked everywhere.

473
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:17,260
But as we're looking

474
00:21:17,260 --> 00:21:17,960
at this light

475
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,140
it's traveling very quickly

476
00:21:20,140 --> 00:21:21,960
and doing 90 degree turns.

477
00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:22,840
Very unusual.

478
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:24,060
So a car in the mountains

479
00:21:24,060 --> 00:21:24,580
wouldn't have been

480
00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:25,300
traveling that way.

481
00:21:25,820 --> 00:21:27,240
And it wasn't just a flash.

482
00:21:27,380 --> 00:21:28,240
We were sitting there

483
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,180
watching this

484
00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:30,940
and I remember sitting there

485
00:21:30,940 --> 00:21:32,560
for a good 10 minutes

486
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,260
watching this

487
00:21:34,260 --> 00:21:35,900
and almost enjoying this.

488
00:21:35,980 --> 00:21:36,160
I thought,

489
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,160
this is fascinating.

490
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:38,800
You ever seen anything strange

491
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:39,600
in the skies out here?

492
00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:42,720
Well, I've been here

493
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,360
a long time.

494
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,080
When I had the cottage

495
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:45,600
over there

496
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:46,480
I had some friends

497
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,440
and he came up

498
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,080
with his girlfriend

499
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,380
and they camped

500
00:21:50,380 --> 00:21:50,960
on the beach.

501
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:52,460
I guess it was about

502
00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:53,580
2.30 in the morning.

503
00:21:54,660 --> 00:21:55,460
They were in the tent

504
00:21:55,460 --> 00:21:56,140
on the beach

505
00:21:56,140 --> 00:21:57,260
in the middle of the night

506
00:21:57,260 --> 00:21:57,820
asleep.

507
00:21:58,220 --> 00:21:59,060
My friend said,

508
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:00,920
I was sleeping like that

509
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:01,460
and all of a sudden

510
00:22:01,460 --> 00:22:02,340
I knew there was a light.

511
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,340
It woke me up.

512
00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:05,520
And the inside of the tent

513
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,620
was like daylight.

514
00:22:08,260 --> 00:22:09,500
He unzipped the door

515
00:22:09,500 --> 00:22:10,420
and looks outside.

516
00:22:11,020 --> 00:22:12,120
And it was like

517
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,020
the 12 o'clock

518
00:22:14,020 --> 00:22:14,640
high noon

519
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,000
on the clearest

520
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:16,760
day of the year

521
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:17,860
and he could see

522
00:22:17,860 --> 00:22:18,540
the beach

523
00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:19,200
and the water

524
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:19,800
and all that

525
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:20,920
but he couldn't see

526
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:21,900
past a certain area

527
00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:23,820
so it was lit up.

528
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:25,980
And that clicked.

529
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:27,860
You know,

530
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:28,820
hey,

531
00:22:29,220 --> 00:22:30,460
I believe in what

532
00:22:30,460 --> 00:22:31,080
they told me

533
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:31,980
because somebody else

534
00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:33,020
told me the same thing.

535
00:22:33,020 --> 00:22:35,280
as an investigator

536
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:36,220
who has a very

537
00:22:36,220 --> 00:22:37,060
open mind

538
00:22:37,060 --> 00:22:38,960
and absorbs

539
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:40,040
all the details

540
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:41,300
no matter how

541
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:42,160
outlandish

542
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:42,900
and strange

543
00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:45,020
I really have to

544
00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:45,900
put some parameters

545
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:46,740
up sometimes

546
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:47,980
about how far

547
00:22:47,980 --> 00:22:49,240
down the rabbit hole

548
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:49,780
I'll go.

549
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,520
Considering this,

550
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:53,760
I had a good friend

551
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:54,440
in the state

552
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,020
of Washington

553
00:22:55,020 --> 00:22:56,280
that is really

554
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:57,520
a UFO expert

555
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:58,940
and I want

556
00:22:58,940 --> 00:22:59,660
to take it to him.

557
00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:00,680
My name is

558
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:01,540
Peter Davenport.

559
00:23:01,740 --> 00:23:01,940
I'm,

560
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:03,560
for the last 26 years

561
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:04,560
I've been the director

562
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,940
of the National UFO

563
00:23:05,940 --> 00:23:06,900
Reporting Center

564
00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:08,360
and that's what I do.

565
00:23:08,460 --> 00:23:09,800
I'm a UFO investigator.

566
00:23:10,340 --> 00:23:11,360
What is the difference

567
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:12,600
between MUFON

568
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:13,600
and what you do

569
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:14,200
in your organization?

570
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:14,340
Well,

571
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,060
they're two separate

572
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:15,760
organizations.

573
00:23:16,020 --> 00:23:16,680
MUFON is

574
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,260
an older organization

575
00:23:18,260 --> 00:23:19,500
and MUFON

576
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:20,120
is more of

577
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:21,500
an investigative body.

578
00:23:21,740 --> 00:23:22,320
It's a membership

579
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,520
organization.

580
00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:25,520
The National UFO

581
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:26,400
Reporting Center

582
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,320
has one member

583
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:28,580
and that is I.

584
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:29,600
Do you ever

585
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:30,080
investigate

586
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:30,920
any of the reports

587
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:31,220
you get?

588
00:23:31,420 --> 00:23:31,600
Yeah,

589
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:32,360
once in a while.

590
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,880
I've investigated

591
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,040
an elk abduction

592
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:35,760
and I've

593
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:36,960
investigated

594
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,200
crop formations.

595
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:39,840
It takes a lot of

596
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,120
resource

597
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:42,680
to investigate a case.

598
00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:43,940
You brought up

599
00:23:43,940 --> 00:23:45,060
the elk case

600
00:23:45,060 --> 00:23:45,880
that you investigated

601
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:46,500
in Washington.

602
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:47,740
I was actually

603
00:23:47,740 --> 00:23:48,380
at a conference

604
00:23:48,380 --> 00:23:49,600
when the call came in.

605
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:50,860
He told a story

606
00:23:50,860 --> 00:23:54,460
about 14 or 15 people,

607
00:23:54,580 --> 00:23:55,420
I think it was,

608
00:23:55,940 --> 00:23:56,640
who were out

609
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:57,560
planting trees

610
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:58,480
on a hillside

611
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,940
on a big piece

612
00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:00,500
of property

613
00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:01,760
owned by a commercial

614
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,200
logging company.

615
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:04,760
They had seen

616
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,020
an object approach

617
00:24:06,020 --> 00:24:06,860
from the east

618
00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:09,300
and they stood there

619
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:09,880
and watched it

620
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:10,760
for a few seconds.

621
00:24:10,900 --> 00:24:12,720
He called the object

622
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:13,500
to the attention

623
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:14,280
of the workers

624
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:15,500
and they all looked up

625
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:16,560
and saw it as well

626
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,360
and it flew

627
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:20,740
towards a herd

628
00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:21,220
of elk

629
00:24:21,220 --> 00:24:22,120
that these guys

630
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:22,900
had been watching

631
00:24:22,900 --> 00:24:23,880
all morning long

632
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:24,900
as they worked

633
00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:25,700
on a hillside.

634
00:24:26,060 --> 00:24:26,740
All the elk

635
00:24:26,740 --> 00:24:28,280
bolted to the northeast

636
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,240
to heavy cover

637
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,920
except for one

638
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,820
hapless elk

639
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:33,840
and the object

640
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,700
lifted the elk

641
00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:36,460
off the ground

642
00:24:36,460 --> 00:24:39,120
and it started

643
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:40,020
moving slowly

644
00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:40,780
in the direction

645
00:24:40,780 --> 00:24:41,820
in which that herd

646
00:24:41,820 --> 00:24:42,720
of elk had gone

647
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,080
and it came

648
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,020
to a large tree,

649
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,060
an evergreen tree

650
00:24:47,060 --> 00:24:48,380
and bumped into it

651
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:49,100
interestingly

652
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:51,120
and backed away

653
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:51,920
from the tree

654
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,940
and then suddenly

655
00:24:53,940 --> 00:24:55,140
shot to the north

656
00:24:55,140 --> 00:24:56,300
and went over

657
00:24:56,300 --> 00:24:58,140
the nearest ridge

658
00:24:58,140 --> 00:24:58,880
to the north.

659
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:00,440
I called

660
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:01,060
the individual

661
00:25:01,060 --> 00:25:01,560
back

662
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,040
who had made

663
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:02,420
the call

664
00:25:02,420 --> 00:25:03,140
to the hotline

665
00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:03,640
and who had

666
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:04,480
left a message

667
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,500
and arranged

668
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:07,360
to travel

669
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:08,120
to the site.

670
00:25:08,620 --> 00:25:09,500
Was the company

671
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:10,760
that the property

672
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,380
was on

673
00:25:11,380 --> 00:25:12,840
assisting

674
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:13,620
in this research?

675
00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:15,660
They directed

676
00:25:15,660 --> 00:25:17,540
a question

677
00:25:17,540 --> 00:25:18,520
to Peter Davenport,

678
00:25:18,660 --> 00:25:19,640
let's put it that way.

679
00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:21,080
So were they interested?

680
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:22,080
Definitely.

681
00:25:23,020 --> 00:25:23,440
Was there

682
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:24,740
one general nationality

683
00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:25,280
of the workers?

684
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:26,100
Hispanic.

685
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:27,740
Would they speak English?

686
00:25:27,740 --> 00:25:28,520
No.

687
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,180
Nobody really knew

688
00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:32,400
exactly what went on

689
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,860
until we got

690
00:25:34,860 --> 00:25:36,240
some good translation.

691
00:25:36,860 --> 00:25:38,160
That's when I decided

692
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:38,920
we needed to get

693
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,160
somebody that was

694
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,260
one in the UFO community

695
00:25:42,260 --> 00:25:43,400
and two could translate

696
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:44,620
well and that's

697
00:25:44,620 --> 00:25:44,980
when we,

698
00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:46,480
when I contacted

699
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:47,820
Ruben down in California.

700
00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:49,200
I had contacted

701
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,700
some of the workers

702
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:53,560
and to arrange

703
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:54,640
for us to meet

704
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,720
and to gain their trust.

705
00:25:57,740 --> 00:25:58,060
us too

706
00:25:58,060 --> 00:25:59,820
because these gentlemen

707
00:25:59,820 --> 00:26:00,840
were pretty shook up.

708
00:26:01,220 --> 00:26:01,680
I would say

709
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:02,420
they were in their

710
00:26:02,420 --> 00:26:04,000
late 20s,

711
00:26:04,060 --> 00:26:04,900
early 30s.

712
00:26:06,140 --> 00:26:06,740
They were married,

713
00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:07,640
have families,

714
00:26:08,060 --> 00:26:08,240
man,

715
00:26:08,860 --> 00:26:11,400
responsible folks.

716
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:12,960
The three witnesses

717
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,340
saw this object

718
00:26:14,340 --> 00:26:16,660
slowly descending

719
00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:17,580
and then went

720
00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:18,580
toward the elk herd

721
00:26:18,580 --> 00:26:19,520
which caused

722
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:20,460
the elk to run

723
00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:21,880
but he was able

724
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,440
to see the object

725
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:24,920
picking up the elk.

726
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:25,860
It was not

727
00:26:25,860 --> 00:26:27,060
a big object at all.

728
00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:28,280
The witnesses

729
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,860
emphasized how

730
00:26:29,860 --> 00:26:31,520
surprised they were

731
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,720
and how small it was

732
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:33,920
and still be able

733
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:34,740
to lift an elk

734
00:26:34,740 --> 00:26:35,700
out of the forest.

735
00:26:36,020 --> 00:26:36,920
What they did

736
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:37,460
was they looked

737
00:26:37,460 --> 00:26:38,080
at the elk,

738
00:26:38,780 --> 00:26:39,860
they looked at the craft

739
00:26:39,860 --> 00:26:40,540
and they said,

740
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:41,200
well, okay,

741
00:26:41,460 --> 00:26:42,960
if the elk is this big,

742
00:26:43,060 --> 00:26:44,140
the craft's got to be

743
00:26:44,140 --> 00:26:45,060
somewhere between

744
00:26:45,060 --> 00:26:46,140
and six and eight

745
00:26:46,140 --> 00:26:47,200
feet long,

746
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:50,040
about five feet wide

747
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,420
with a little indentation

748
00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:52,740
in the back,

749
00:26:52,860 --> 00:26:54,320
about 18 inches thick.

750
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,460
It had a red

751
00:26:56,460 --> 00:26:57,480
and a white stripe

752
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,980
that weren't lights

753
00:26:58,980 --> 00:27:00,500
but the white stripe

754
00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:01,900
was like a bright

755
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:02,820
enamel paint.

756
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:04,480
The red stripe

757
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:05,980
was a duller color.

758
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:07,300
So when the men

759
00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:07,980
in the group

760
00:27:07,980 --> 00:27:09,220
saw this craft

761
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:10,420
take the elk

762
00:27:10,420 --> 00:27:11,360
out of sight,

763
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,600
what was the distance

764
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:14,380
from where they were

765
00:27:14,380 --> 00:27:15,540
to where they finally

766
00:27:15,540 --> 00:27:16,060
saw it?

767
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:17,440
I would say

768
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:18,000
the trees

769
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,060
where it ran into

770
00:27:19,060 --> 00:27:20,140
was a quarter mile

771
00:27:20,140 --> 00:27:22,360
but basically,

772
00:27:22,620 --> 00:27:23,360
I think it became

773
00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:24,060
a small dot

774
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:24,860
before it disappeared

775
00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:26,680
into the cloud cover.

776
00:27:27,860 --> 00:27:28,280
The object

777
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,400
was silent

778
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:31,780
and as soon as

779
00:27:31,780 --> 00:27:33,380
it got over the elk,

780
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:34,900
the elk was

781
00:27:34,900 --> 00:27:35,980
basically paralyzed.

782
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:36,660
It looked like

783
00:27:36,660 --> 00:27:37,640
it was a statue.

784
00:27:38,020 --> 00:27:39,100
It was just stiff.

785
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,560
The distance of the elk

786
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:41,380
from the craft

787
00:27:41,380 --> 00:27:42,640
always stayed consistent?

788
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:43,100
Yes.

789
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:44,580
How thick

790
00:27:44,580 --> 00:27:45,380
was the cable

791
00:27:45,380 --> 00:27:46,580
between the craft

792
00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:47,280
and the elk?

793
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,500
There was no cable.

794
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:50,900
There was nothing

795
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:52,480
discernible

796
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,000
that was holding

797
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:54,440
the elk

798
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:55,260
to the craft.

799
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:56,340
The movement

800
00:27:56,340 --> 00:27:58,120
was like a coin.

801
00:27:58,680 --> 00:27:59,840
It was a slow

802
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:00,720
oscillation.

803
00:28:01,060 --> 00:28:01,880
It took about

804
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:03,600
two and a half

805
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:04,360
seconds

806
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,260
for it

807
00:28:05,260 --> 00:28:05,660
to complete

808
00:28:05,660 --> 00:28:06,180
a cycle

809
00:28:06,180 --> 00:28:07,840
and it's

810
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:08,700
as if

811
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:09,680
if you've

812
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:09,920
ever

813
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,280
spun a coin

814
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:12,600
and when

815
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:13,200
that coin

816
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:13,980
is getting

817
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:15,000
lower and lower

818
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:15,820
so it's almost

819
00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:16,360
flat

820
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:17,320
and it goes

821
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:18,040
around on

822
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:18,660
its rim,

823
00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:19,740
that's the type

824
00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:20,620
of oscillation.

825
00:28:21,220 --> 00:28:21,560
What are the

826
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:22,120
chances, Peter,

827
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:22,760
that that could

828
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:23,160
have been

829
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:24,280
some kind of

830
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:24,940
test vehicle

831
00:28:24,940 --> 00:28:25,640
that our military

832
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,260
has and they

833
00:28:26,260 --> 00:28:26,560
were just

834
00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:27,160
trying out

835
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:27,880
their technology?

836
00:28:28,180 --> 00:28:28,900
About as close

837
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:29,400
to zero

838
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,200
as you can get.

839
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:31,760
Could the craft

840
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:32,200
have been

841
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:32,880
a helicopter?

842
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:33,560
No.

843
00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:35,620
In your research

844
00:28:35,620 --> 00:28:36,780
as an investigator,

845
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:37,300
is that common?

846
00:28:37,980 --> 00:28:38,260
Yes.

847
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,260
Many times

848
00:28:39,260 --> 00:28:40,600
in reports

849
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:41,240
that we get

850
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,200
from witnesses,

851
00:28:43,500 --> 00:28:43,940
they'll say

852
00:28:43,940 --> 00:28:45,000
that they heard

853
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:45,940
no noise

854
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:46,420
at all.

855
00:28:47,300 --> 00:28:48,320
Did you ever

856
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:49,000
go out

857
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:49,440
and try to

858
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:49,980
find the elk?

859
00:28:50,140 --> 00:28:50,580
We did.

860
00:28:51,140 --> 00:28:51,720
We found

861
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,560
what we think

862
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:53,880
may have been

863
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:54,340
the elk.

864
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:56,480
It was a dead

865
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,300
creature

866
00:28:57,300 --> 00:28:57,940
by the time

867
00:28:57,940 --> 00:28:58,720
we got to it

868
00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:59,680
but we

869
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:00,900
did a cursory

870
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:01,700
examination,

871
00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:02,800
could find

872
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:03,760
no bullet holes,

873
00:29:04,060 --> 00:29:04,780
no arrows

874
00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:05,600
sticking in it,

875
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:06,600
no wounds,

876
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:07,620
it had good teeth,

877
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:09,000
it was well fed.

878
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:09,920
We think

879
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,840
it was a female,

880
00:29:11,260 --> 00:29:12,760
a pregnant female elk.

881
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,620
Describe the setting

882
00:29:14,620 --> 00:29:15,060
that you saw

883
00:29:15,060 --> 00:29:15,620
the elk in.

884
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:17,560
It was beside

885
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,240
a road

886
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,020
and it was

887
00:29:19,020 --> 00:29:20,340
in the valley

888
00:29:20,340 --> 00:29:21,180
to the north

889
00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:21,880
of the valley

890
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:22,640
where these men

891
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:23,800
were planting trees.

892
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:25,020
It leads me

893
00:29:25,020 --> 00:29:25,920
to suspect

894
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,020
but have no evidence

895
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:29,760
that the craft

896
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,340
flew over

897
00:29:31,340 --> 00:29:33,160
the ridge

898
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:33,840
to the north

899
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:34,280
of where

900
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:34,820
these men

901
00:29:34,820 --> 00:29:35,460
were working

902
00:29:35,460 --> 00:29:36,880
and may have

903
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:37,740
dropped the elk

904
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:39,140
or left it off.

905
00:29:39,860 --> 00:29:40,640
So how many days

906
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:41,720
was it from the time

907
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:42,680
that they saw

908
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:43,700
the elk get pulled up

909
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:44,320
by the craft

910
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,560
until someone

911
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,360
found that elk

912
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:46,860
on the road?

913
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,320
The elk was found

914
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,980
before seven days

915
00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:53,000
had transpired.

916
00:29:53,180 --> 00:29:53,800
Does that case

917
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:54,620
rank up there

918
00:29:54,620 --> 00:29:55,000
with you

919
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:55,660
as far as

920
00:29:55,660 --> 00:29:56,400
strangeness

921
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:57,440
and credibility?

922
00:29:59,020 --> 00:29:59,480
Yeah,

923
00:29:59,520 --> 00:29:59,920
it's a pretty

924
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:00,800
strange case.

925
00:30:01,460 --> 00:30:02,560
It's not every day

926
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,240
that witnesses

927
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,520
see a UFO,

928
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:05,500
what we presume

929
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:06,360
was a UFO,

930
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,940
an alien spacecraft,

931
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:09,520
lift an animal

932
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:10,760
off the ground

933
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:11,900
and fly off with it.

934
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:13,340
That's pretty unusual

935
00:30:13,340 --> 00:30:14,340
by any measure.

936
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:15,580
Were any of them

937
00:30:15,580 --> 00:30:16,560
concerned that,

938
00:30:16,740 --> 00:30:17,380
hey, maybe one of

939
00:30:17,380 --> 00:30:17,740
these things

940
00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:18,220
should come over

941
00:30:18,220 --> 00:30:18,700
and take me?

942
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:19,040
Yeah.

943
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:21,740
Did they voice

944
00:30:21,740 --> 00:30:22,160
that concern?

945
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:23,160
Yes, they did.

946
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,940
Some weren't quite sure

947
00:30:25,940 --> 00:30:26,400
if they wanted

948
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:26,900
to go back

949
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:27,500
to the woods

950
00:30:27,500 --> 00:30:28,580
and work again.

951
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,280
Listening to his voice

952
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:31,740
and I could really

953
00:30:31,740 --> 00:30:35,860
see the actual event

954
00:30:35,860 --> 00:30:36,420
that's happening

955
00:30:36,420 --> 00:30:36,920
to him

956
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,340
as he's describing it

957
00:30:38,340 --> 00:30:39,580
and he was shook

958
00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:40,540
up about it.

959
00:30:40,980 --> 00:30:41,460
Is he emotional?

960
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,340
From what I recall,

961
00:30:43,620 --> 00:30:44,440
he had a hard time

962
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,220
sleeping for several days

963
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:48,280
after he saw that.

964
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:50,040
His words were

965
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,460
whether he thought

966
00:30:51,460 --> 00:30:52,060
whether it was

967
00:30:52,060 --> 00:30:53,140
something prehistoric

968
00:30:53,140 --> 00:30:54,720
or it was something

969
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:55,520
extraterrestrial.

970
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:56,680
So when you heard

971
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,880
that this elk was taken

972
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,340
and you heard the witnesses,

973
00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:03,160
at the end of the investigation,

974
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:04,160
what was your belief?

975
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:04,720
Credible?

976
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Incredible?

977
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:07,440
Borderline?

978
00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:08,160
It was credible.

979
00:31:08,340 --> 00:31:09,420
Everyone was credible.

980
00:31:12,820 --> 00:31:14,420
No one appeared

981
00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:16,560
to be wanting to

982
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,940
force a story

983
00:31:19,940 --> 00:31:21,500
about anything.

984
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:23,240
It was just the opposite.

985
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,360
They were reluctant.

986
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,900
Really upset them.

987
00:31:27,260 --> 00:31:28,260
They really didn't even

988
00:31:28,260 --> 00:31:29,500
want to think about it.

989
00:31:30,620 --> 00:31:31,280
Did they give you

990
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,620
any indication at all

991
00:31:32,620 --> 00:31:33,580
that this was fabrication?

992
00:31:34,220 --> 00:31:34,680
No, David.

993
00:31:35,140 --> 00:31:36,620
I would stake my reputation.

994
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:38,380
No, they're to retell

995
00:31:38,380 --> 00:31:38,960
into truth.

996
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:41,180
After the interview,

997
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:42,260
I received a call

998
00:31:42,260 --> 00:31:43,380
from Robert Fairfax

999
00:31:43,380 --> 00:31:44,860
regarding the dead elk.

1000
00:31:44,860 --> 00:31:46,880
Hey, Robert.

1001
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,540
Hi, Dave.

1002
00:31:49,180 --> 00:31:50,240
Yes, I'm calling back

1003
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,860
because when we did

1004
00:31:51,860 --> 00:31:52,320
the interview,

1005
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:53,320
there was a couple

1006
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,080
of things I forgot,

1007
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:55,500
Dan,

1008
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:56,520
but I did meet

1009
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:57,760
with a representative

1010
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:58,660
of the company

1011
00:31:58,660 --> 00:32:00,320
when Peter and I

1012
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,300
initially went down

1013
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:03,100
to find out

1014
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:04,400
they had a chronic

1015
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:05,780
wasting disease,

1016
00:32:05,980 --> 00:32:06,580
which is a

1017
00:32:06,580 --> 00:32:07,860
prion disease

1018
00:32:08,580 --> 00:32:09,720
that attacks the

1019
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:10,640
brain.

1020
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:11,640
And they had been

1021
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,960
finding quite a few

1022
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,480
dead elk

1023
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:16,960
in the area.

1024
00:32:18,460 --> 00:32:19,640
So in the 1980s

1025
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:21,220
in the UK,

1026
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:23,060
there was something

1027
00:32:23,060 --> 00:32:24,760
called mad cow disease.

1028
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:26,920
It's a prion disease

1029
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,700
and it infected cows.

1030
00:32:29,060 --> 00:32:29,560
In the UK,

1031
00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:30,980
they initially said

1032
00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:32,640
that these animals

1033
00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:34,720
couldn't transmit

1034
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:35,800
the disease

1035
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:36,640
to people.

1036
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,460
and they said

1037
00:32:38,460 --> 00:32:39,060
not to worry.

1038
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:40,640
Well, it ended up

1039
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:41,900
transferring to people

1040
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:43,580
and it killed hundreds.

1041
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:45,320
And the UK

1042
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:46,360
ended up slaughtering

1043
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,780
over 4 million cattle

1044
00:32:47,780 --> 00:32:49,100
because of this

1045
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:49,880
prion disease

1046
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:50,740
that we know

1047
00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:51,440
as mad cow.

1048
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:52,640
Well, in the US,

1049
00:32:52,820 --> 00:32:53,340
there's something

1050
00:32:53,340 --> 00:32:54,080
that's come about

1051
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,200
where chronic

1052
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,380
wasting disease

1053
00:32:57,380 --> 00:32:58,760
is now infecting

1054
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,200
deer, moose, elk,

1055
00:33:01,420 --> 00:33:01,960
cervids.

1056
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:04,140
And this disease

1057
00:33:04,140 --> 00:33:05,180
is spread across

1058
00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:05,840
the US

1059
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,900
and it's centered

1060
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:09,040
on Colorado

1061
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:09,880
and Wyoming.

1062
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:11,840
This disease

1063
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:12,640
is fatal

1064
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,280
100% of the time

1065
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:15,800
to all cervids.

1066
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:20,460
The state governments

1067
00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:22,980
of each of the 50 states

1068
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:24,860
have told hunters

1069
00:33:24,860 --> 00:33:27,880
to get their animals tested

1070
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,660
and not to eat the meat

1071
00:33:29,660 --> 00:33:30,860
of an infected animal.

1072
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:32,580
And they've never stated yet

1073
00:33:32,580 --> 00:33:34,060
that this can transfer

1074
00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:34,480
to human,

1075
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:35,880
but it's consistent

1076
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:37,320
in that it says

1077
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,900
don't eat the animal.

1078
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,060
Chronic wasting disease

1079
00:33:41,060 --> 00:33:42,780
seems to be something

1080
00:33:42,780 --> 00:33:44,760
that is out of control.

1081
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,180
State and federal governments

1082
00:33:47,180 --> 00:33:47,940
don't have an answer

1083
00:33:47,940 --> 00:33:48,960
on how to control it.

1084
00:33:49,540 --> 00:33:50,700
And right now,

1085
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:51,720
it seems as though

1086
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:52,720
there's some type

1087
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:53,400
of monitoring

1088
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:54,820
going on

1089
00:33:54,820 --> 00:33:56,980
across the US

1090
00:33:56,980 --> 00:33:59,620
of these infected animals.

1091
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,680
In Washington,

1092
00:34:02,580 --> 00:34:03,300
Peter Davenport

1093
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:04,780
identified one case

1094
00:34:04,780 --> 00:34:06,140
and attributed it

1095
00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:07,180
to CWD.

1096
00:34:07,820 --> 00:34:08,240
Now,

1097
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:09,860
he identified a case

1098
00:34:09,860 --> 00:34:10,980
in the state of Idaho

1099
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:12,520
involving hunters

1100
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,580
that is equally as unusual.

1101
00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:16,760
Hi,

1102
00:34:16,860 --> 00:34:17,720
I'm Chris Bales

1103
00:34:17,720 --> 00:34:19,480
and I have

1104
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,260
a little incident

1105
00:34:20,260 --> 00:34:22,240
that I ran into

1106
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:24,000
on September 27th,

1107
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,040
the year 2000.

1108
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:27,280
Something that

1109
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:28,560
most people

1110
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,220
would never,

1111
00:34:30,580 --> 00:34:31,320
ever see

1112
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:32,420
or believe.

1113
00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:34,880
We were in

1114
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,800
the middle of Idaho

1115
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,120
out in a

1116
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:39,780
pretty remote area.

1117
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:41,160
Who were you with?

1118
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,740
I was with

1119
00:34:42,740 --> 00:34:43,880
my brother Mark

1120
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,540
and a friend of ours

1121
00:34:46,540 --> 00:34:48,080
through construction,

1122
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:48,820
Rob,

1123
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:50,940
and then his dad

1124
00:34:50,940 --> 00:34:52,700
was with us.

1125
00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:54,160
Describe the spot

1126
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:55,060
where you were camping.

1127
00:34:55,660 --> 00:34:56,660
Hard to get down in

1128
00:34:56,660 --> 00:34:57,220
and then when you get

1129
00:34:57,220 --> 00:34:57,740
down in there,

1130
00:34:57,780 --> 00:34:58,480
it was pretty tight.

1131
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:00,560
Steep canyon

1132
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,800
and tall timber.

1133
00:35:03,860 --> 00:35:04,540
And it was kind of

1134
00:35:04,540 --> 00:35:04,960
a dark,

1135
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:05,980
dark hole

1136
00:35:05,980 --> 00:35:06,560
down in there.

1137
00:35:06,940 --> 00:35:07,480
And had you been

1138
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:08,280
to this spot before?

1139
00:35:08,340 --> 00:35:08,820
We had.

1140
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:09,620
We'd been there

1141
00:35:09,620 --> 00:35:10,460
for several years.

1142
00:35:10,460 --> 00:35:11,760
So you knew it well?

1143
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,140
We knew it well, yeah.

1144
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,300
We had some mules

1145
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:16,560
to hopefully,

1146
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,420
usually pack

1147
00:35:18,420 --> 00:35:19,560
an animal out

1148
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,220
that we harvested.

1149
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:23,300
Describe the day

1150
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:25,180
and how it started

1151
00:35:25,180 --> 00:35:26,600
on this specific incident.

1152
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,120
We would start early,

1153
00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:28,720
I mean like

1154
00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:29,460
four in the morning,

1155
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:30,640
drive to a spot

1156
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,240
and then hike

1157
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:32,920
for maybe an hour

1158
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,160
or two in the dark.

1159
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:35,600
Work our way around,

1160
00:35:35,860 --> 00:35:36,700
spot a elk,

1161
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:37,940
try and follow elk,

1162
00:35:38,260 --> 00:35:40,440
look at some high lakes.

1163
00:35:40,460 --> 00:35:42,060
that we'd never seen before

1164
00:35:42,060 --> 00:35:43,220
and never got up in there.

1165
00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:44,520
We'd try and get back

1166
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,460
to the vehicles

1167
00:35:45,460 --> 00:35:46,980
just before dark.

1168
00:35:47,380 --> 00:35:48,000
On this date,

1169
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:49,060
you guys come back,

1170
00:35:49,580 --> 00:35:50,580
you fix some dinner,

1171
00:35:50,740 --> 00:35:51,620
explain what happened then.

1172
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,620
I had finished my supper

1173
00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:56,920
and went out to take a whiz

1174
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:00,000
and I was starting back

1175
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,880
to the trailer

1176
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,880
and Chris came out.

1177
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:04,220
I was,

1178
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:04,840
I don't know,

1179
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,960
maybe 15 feet

1180
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:07,500
from the trailer.

1181
00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:09,760
And when I stepped down,

1182
00:36:10,020 --> 00:36:10,560
obviously,

1183
00:36:11,380 --> 00:36:12,320
your head goes up,

1184
00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:13,940
the light went across,

1185
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:15,940
hit on something

1186
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:17,420
that's right there

1187
00:36:17,420 --> 00:36:18,660
and instant,

1188
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:19,860
instantly,

1189
00:36:20,940 --> 00:36:21,780
that it was something

1190
00:36:21,780 --> 00:36:23,740
that I didn't comprehend

1191
00:36:23,740 --> 00:36:24,760
whatsoever.

1192
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:26,660
When I saw that,

1193
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:28,740
that's when I,

1194
00:36:28,860 --> 00:36:29,220
you know,

1195
00:36:29,260 --> 00:36:30,560
went down on my knees.

1196
00:36:30,660 --> 00:36:31,200
I just kind of

1197
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,700
turned to my right,

1198
00:36:32,860 --> 00:36:34,080
went down on my knees.

1199
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,640
Chris looks up

1200
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,060
and just goes,

1201
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:39,820
holy shit,

1202
00:36:40,020 --> 00:36:40,740
holy shit,

1203
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:41,700
holy shit,

1204
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:43,220
you guys have got to see this.

1205
00:36:43,220 --> 00:36:44,480
I look up

1206
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:45,320
and I see

1207
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:46,180
what he's looking at.

1208
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:47,840
And I mean,

1209
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:48,600
I was quivering,

1210
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:50,360
I yelled,

1211
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:51,600
I was yelling basically

1212
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:52,780
at the top of my voice.

1213
00:36:53,780 --> 00:36:54,840
Mark came out

1214
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:55,460
of the trailer

1215
00:36:55,460 --> 00:36:56,740
and he said that,

1216
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,340
you know,

1217
00:36:58,520 --> 00:36:59,800
he heard my voice

1218
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:00,900
and he'd never heard me

1219
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:02,060
sound that way before.

1220
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:03,460
He runs out

1221
00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:05,540
and I just point up,

1222
00:37:06,020 --> 00:37:07,000
up above.

1223
00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:08,140
It was huge.

1224
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:10,420
It was like

1225
00:37:10,420 --> 00:37:11,800
a football field,

1226
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:12,680
100 feet.

1227
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:14,920
Direction, direction,

1228
00:37:15,220 --> 00:37:16,420
triangular shape.

1229
00:37:16,820 --> 00:37:18,120
So how far

1230
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:19,300
was the bottom

1231
00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:20,380
of that craft

1232
00:37:20,380 --> 00:37:20,960
from you

1233
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:21,620
in your estimate?

1234
00:37:22,980 --> 00:37:24,160
I would say

1235
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,340
80 feet,

1236
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:26,900
plus or minus,

1237
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:28,000
somewhere in there

1238
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:29,280
above us.

1239
00:37:29,580 --> 00:37:30,100
Rivets,

1240
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:30,960
panels?

1241
00:37:31,220 --> 00:37:31,420
No,

1242
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,800
that was one of the things

1243
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:34,960
that I'm in construction,

1244
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:36,140
I like detail.

1245
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:38,020
I was looking at that

1246
00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:38,440
and that,

1247
00:37:38,660 --> 00:37:39,280
the detail,

1248
00:37:39,540 --> 00:37:39,760
just,

1249
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:41,220
I couldn't believe,

1250
00:37:41,220 --> 00:37:41,560
you know,

1251
00:37:41,660 --> 00:37:42,600
there's no

1252
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,600
seams,

1253
00:37:43,900 --> 00:37:44,520
no rivets,

1254
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:45,320
no joints.

1255
00:37:45,820 --> 00:37:46,620
It's all just

1256
00:37:46,620 --> 00:37:48,400
one perfect surface

1257
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,000
in it.

1258
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:50,920
You could just tell

1259
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,180
it was perfect

1260
00:37:52,180 --> 00:37:53,780
in every way.

1261
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:55,100
The thing that got me

1262
00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:55,780
the most

1263
00:37:55,780 --> 00:37:58,080
was how close it was

1264
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,940
and no noise,

1265
00:38:01,460 --> 00:38:02,140
nothing.

1266
00:38:02,140 --> 00:38:03,880
No prop wash,

1267
00:38:04,140 --> 00:38:06,540
no breeze,

1268
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:08,360
no exhaust,

1269
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,880
nothing you could smell.

1270
00:38:13,460 --> 00:38:14,060
Zero.

1271
00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:16,880
And it was a calm night,

1272
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:17,780
no wind.

1273
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:18,680
By that time,

1274
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:19,900
it's starting to move up

1275
00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:20,880
and Mark and Rob

1276
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,520
both grabbed

1277
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:22,760
their binoculars

1278
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,220
and we just watched it

1279
00:38:25,220 --> 00:38:26,020
just float

1280
00:38:26,020 --> 00:38:27,660
up the draw,

1281
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:29,740
just slowly,

1282
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:31,040
no noise,

1283
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,260
animals didn't make noise.

1284
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:35,540
Those mules

1285
00:38:35,540 --> 00:38:37,780
never made a sound

1286
00:38:37,780 --> 00:38:39,320
and they never

1287
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,060
made any motion.

1288
00:38:41,260 --> 00:38:41,420
I mean,

1289
00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:42,340
like nothing

1290
00:38:42,340 --> 00:38:43,100
was going on.

1291
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,560
We weren't making

1292
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,300
any noise,

1293
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:46,940
just kind of

1294
00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:47,600
in awe

1295
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:48,540
of what's going on

1296
00:38:48,540 --> 00:38:49,140
and not knowing

1297
00:38:49,140 --> 00:38:49,880
what it is.

1298
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:50,860
I'm thinking,

1299
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:51,120
man,

1300
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:51,620
that's sure

1301
00:38:51,620 --> 00:38:52,200
no airplane.

1302
00:38:53,580 --> 00:38:54,820
We actually took

1303
00:38:54,820 --> 00:38:56,500
pieces of paper

1304
00:38:56,500 --> 00:38:58,060
and drew up

1305
00:38:58,060 --> 00:39:00,000
our own pictures

1306
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:01,260
and wrote down

1307
00:39:01,260 --> 00:39:02,080
information.

1308
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,900
So, Chris,

1309
00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:05,140
I came across

1310
00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:06,080
this.

1311
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:07,740
Did you draw that?

1312
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:09,040
I did draw this.

1313
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:10,120
Is that what it

1314
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:10,480
looked like?

1315
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:11,860
That's as similar

1316
00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:13,140
as what I could

1317
00:39:13,140 --> 00:39:13,820
come up with.

1318
00:39:14,060 --> 00:39:14,780
What were the

1319
00:39:14,780 --> 00:39:15,820
black dots

1320
00:39:15,820 --> 00:39:16,520
outside the red?

1321
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:16,960
Don't know.

1322
00:39:17,020 --> 00:39:17,660
I just remember

1323
00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:18,260
seeing them.

1324
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,240
Didn't seem like

1325
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:20,940
there was anything.

1326
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:24,160
And was the red dot

1327
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,020
painted

1328
00:39:27,020 --> 00:39:28,620
or did it glow

1329
00:39:28,620 --> 00:39:29,380
like the white?

1330
00:39:29,820 --> 00:39:30,700
It glowed

1331
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:31,800
like the white disk.

1332
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,220
Did the white lights

1333
00:39:33,220 --> 00:39:34,080
also protrude

1334
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:34,680
from the bottom?

1335
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:36,220
It looked like

1336
00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:36,960
maybe they were

1337
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,140
semi-domed,

1338
00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:39,600
but it was not

1339
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,740
really pronounced

1340
00:39:41,740 --> 00:39:43,740
like the drawing.

1341
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:44,140
You know,

1342
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:44,980
you draw that.

1343
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:45,580
It was more

1344
00:39:45,580 --> 00:39:48,820
of a white fog

1345
00:39:48,820 --> 00:39:51,040
circle,

1346
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,360
not really any

1347
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,100
sharp edges

1348
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:55,820
or fine detail.

1349
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:57,920
Could it have

1350
00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:58,740
been watching Rob?

1351
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:00,320
Could he have been

1352
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:01,440
a target for abduction

1353
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:02,340
and Chris coming

1354
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:03,220
out of the trailer

1355
00:40:03,220 --> 00:40:04,740
thwarted that abduction?

1356
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:06,640
Triangular craft

1357
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:07,200
like this had been

1358
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:08,540
seen around the world,

1359
00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:10,240
including most recently

1360
00:40:10,240 --> 00:40:11,060
by our own

1361
00:40:11,060 --> 00:40:12,480
U.S. military pilots.

1362
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:13,840
That night,

1363
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:15,140
did you stay in camp?

1364
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:16,680
Tried to,

1365
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:18,600
but just

1366
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,640
couldn't bring myself

1367
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:20,160
to do it.

1368
00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:21,200
Did you get to know

1369
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:21,880
anybody else

1370
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:22,620
who lived in that

1371
00:40:22,620 --> 00:40:23,340
general area

1372
00:40:23,340 --> 00:40:24,120
and ask them

1373
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:24,600
if they'd seen

1374
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,140
something like this?

1375
00:40:25,140 --> 00:40:26,280
there was people

1376
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:26,900
that we knew

1377
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:27,800
that were in there.

1378
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,240
So Mark kind of

1379
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:31,540
hedged on,

1380
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:31,720
well,

1381
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:32,460
have you guys

1382
00:40:32,460 --> 00:40:33,960
ever seen

1383
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,400
anything kind of

1384
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:36,320
different,

1385
00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:37,440
you know,

1386
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:38,200
at some point

1387
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:39,220
or anything like that

1388
00:40:39,220 --> 00:40:39,840
out in the valley?

1389
00:40:40,820 --> 00:40:42,120
And so,

1390
00:40:42,340 --> 00:40:43,180
a little conversation

1391
00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:43,860
about it,

1392
00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:45,300
and I just,

1393
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:46,200
we were standing,

1394
00:40:46,340 --> 00:40:46,540
you know,

1395
00:40:46,580 --> 00:40:47,360
on the dirt road

1396
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:48,300
and I put my,

1397
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:49,500
told my boot down

1398
00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:50,480
and said,

1399
00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:50,600
well,

1400
00:40:50,620 --> 00:40:50,980
did you see

1401
00:40:50,980 --> 00:40:51,760
something like this?

1402
00:40:51,780 --> 00:40:52,940
And started to draw

1403
00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:54,220
a triangle

1404
00:40:54,220 --> 00:40:55,620
with my boot

1405
00:40:55,620 --> 00:40:56,820
in the dirt

1406
00:40:56,820 --> 00:40:57,680
and I drew

1407
00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:58,920
a straight line

1408
00:40:58,920 --> 00:40:59,700
and the guy

1409
00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:00,560
standing next to me

1410
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:01,220
took his foot

1411
00:41:01,220 --> 00:41:02,460
and pushed my foot away

1412
00:41:02,460 --> 00:41:04,240
and he finished

1413
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:05,560
my drawing for me

1414
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:06,700
on that

1415
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:07,660
and that was,

1416
00:41:08,620 --> 00:41:09,200
there was nothing

1417
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:09,980
said or anything

1418
00:41:09,980 --> 00:41:10,880
but that,

1419
00:41:11,060 --> 00:41:12,120
he finished my drawing.

1420
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:13,540
Is that some sort

1421
00:41:13,540 --> 00:41:14,540
of validation for you?

1422
00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:15,500
Um,

1423
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:16,280
well,

1424
00:41:16,340 --> 00:41:17,260
it made me feel like,

1425
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:17,720
you know,

1426
00:41:17,820 --> 00:41:18,180
okay,

1427
00:41:18,660 --> 00:41:19,580
other people

1428
00:41:19,580 --> 00:41:20,980
have noticed this

1429
00:41:20,980 --> 00:41:22,220
and,

1430
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:22,660
uh,

1431
00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:23,300
so,

1432
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:25,000
yeah,

1433
00:41:25,140 --> 00:41:25,720
I guess it's

1434
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:26,380
a validation.

1435
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:28,840
So it did affect you?

1436
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:30,220
Oh,

1437
00:41:30,260 --> 00:41:30,700
it did.

1438
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:33,940
I guess,

1439
00:41:34,020 --> 00:41:34,360
I'm,

1440
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:35,880
I'm vacillating maybe.

1441
00:41:36,220 --> 00:41:37,080
Since that night

1442
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:37,920
in 2000,

1443
00:41:39,060 --> 00:41:39,820
anywhere

1444
00:41:39,820 --> 00:41:41,160
that you've been out,

1445
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,220
have you seen

1446
00:41:42,220 --> 00:41:43,500
other unidentified

1447
00:41:43,500 --> 00:41:44,340
things in the sky?

1448
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:44,760
No.

1449
00:41:45,140 --> 00:41:46,200
How about Mark or Rob?

1450
00:41:46,580 --> 00:41:46,940
No,

1451
00:41:47,020 --> 00:41:47,720
same thing,

1452
00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:48,180
you know,

1453
00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:48,840
never really

1454
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,980
seen anything

1455
00:41:50,980 --> 00:41:51,620
that even

1456
00:41:51,620 --> 00:41:53,980
would have guessed at it.

1457
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:55,480
So Rob,

1458
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:56,460
there's gonna be people

1459
00:41:56,460 --> 00:41:57,740
that watch this

1460
00:41:57,740 --> 00:41:59,420
and they're gonna say,

1461
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:00,320
I don't believe it,

1462
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:00,560
you know,

1463
00:42:00,580 --> 00:42:01,440
it didn't happen,

1464
00:42:01,740 --> 00:42:01,980
uh,

1465
00:42:02,500 --> 00:42:03,360
these guys were...

1466
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:04,220
Or I'd be one of them.

1467
00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:05,400
You'd be one of them.

1468
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:06,480
Yeah.

1469
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:08,360
So if you saw this story,

1470
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:09,200
you wouldn't believe the guys?

1471
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,900
Well,

1472
00:42:11,140 --> 00:42:12,860
I'm skeptical.

1473
00:42:14,340 --> 00:42:15,540
But I saw it.

1474
00:42:16,060 --> 00:42:16,920
And how many times

1475
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:17,500
have you gone back

1476
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:18,660
to that same site since?

1477
00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:19,740
The exact site?

1478
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:20,100
Yeah.

1479
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:21,160
Never.

1480
00:42:25,420 --> 00:42:26,580
When we talk about

1481
00:42:26,580 --> 00:42:28,440
the triangle UFO sighting

1482
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,000
by the hunters,

1483
00:42:30,340 --> 00:42:32,160
I didn't realize

1484
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:33,540
at the time,

1485
00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:35,940
but its location

1486
00:42:35,940 --> 00:42:36,800
on a map

1487
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,820
coincides

1488
00:42:38,820 --> 00:42:40,060
with

1489
00:42:40,060 --> 00:42:40,680
the first

1490
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:41,860
documentary I did

1491
00:42:41,860 --> 00:42:42,900
called

1492
00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:43,700
Missing 411.

1493
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:44,960
It involved

1494
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:45,860
the disappearance

1495
00:42:45,860 --> 00:42:47,020
of Dior Koontz.

1496
00:42:47,700 --> 00:42:48,260
And when I look

1497
00:42:48,260 --> 00:42:48,840
at a map

1498
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,840
directly east

1499
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,460
of the sighting

1500
00:42:54,460 --> 00:42:55,020
of the triangle

1501
00:42:55,020 --> 00:42:55,660
by the hunters,

1502
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,840
it's the exact location

1503
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,340
that Dior disappeared.

1504
00:43:00,340 --> 00:43:02,840
Now when you think

1505
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:03,980
about the vastness

1506
00:43:03,980 --> 00:43:04,760
of the wilderness,

1507
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:06,340
what are the chances

1508
00:43:06,340 --> 00:43:07,700
that these two incidents

1509
00:43:07,700 --> 00:43:09,440
happened in such

1510
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:10,260
a close proximity

1511
00:43:10,260 --> 00:43:10,900
to one another?

1512
00:43:12,740 --> 00:43:13,960
But also looking

1513
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:14,560
at the map

1514
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:15,760
and my case files,

1515
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,140
it also coincides

1516
00:43:18,140 --> 00:43:19,380
with the disappearance

1517
00:43:19,380 --> 00:43:21,220
of Ray Jones.

1518
00:43:21,860 --> 00:43:22,420
Now Ray

1519
00:43:22,420 --> 00:43:24,360
was a 39-year-old

1520
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:25,780
service station

1521
00:43:25,780 --> 00:43:27,440
owner in Salmon

1522
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:28,860
who disappeared

1523
00:43:28,860 --> 00:43:30,680
53 years ago

1524
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,280
on a hunting

1525
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:33,280
expedition

1526
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:34,580
with friends.

1527
00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:36,280
They separated,

1528
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:38,120
Ray disappeared,

1529
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,700
and for 53 years

1530
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:42,900
he wasn't found.

1531
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:45,120
Now,

1532
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,480
a group of hunters

1533
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:48,420
that saw

1534
00:43:48,420 --> 00:43:50,200
the triangular UFO,

1535
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,020
their dad

1536
00:43:52,020 --> 00:43:53,080
actually knew Ray.

1537
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:54,680
And so every time

1538
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:55,420
they went out

1539
00:43:55,420 --> 00:43:56,820
and hunted this area,

1540
00:43:57,380 --> 00:43:57,920
they said that

1541
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:58,360
they were looking

1542
00:43:58,360 --> 00:43:59,120
for Ray as well.

1543
00:44:00,420 --> 00:44:01,220
He wasn't found.

1544
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:03,180
And then he's found

1545
00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:03,940
this year

1546
00:44:03,940 --> 00:44:05,300
at the bottom

1547
00:44:05,300 --> 00:44:06,240
of a boulder field

1548
00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:07,460
in an area

1549
00:44:07,460 --> 00:44:07,980
that had been

1550
00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:09,040
previously searched

1551
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,460
dozens of times.

1552
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:12,940
Suddenly he's found there.

1553
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:15,700
And when you map

1554
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:17,180
these three incidents,

1555
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,000
you have a very

1556
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,380
neat triangle,

1557
00:44:22,380 --> 00:44:25,200
which weirdly

1558
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,540
coincides with

1559
00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:28,960
the shape

1560
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,960
of the triangle

1561
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:32,460
that was drawn

1562
00:44:32,460 --> 00:44:33,240
by the hunters.

1563
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:46,880
are there any

1564
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,520
new major

1565
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:48,020
developments

1566
00:44:48,020 --> 00:44:48,600
in the case?

1567
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:53,860
Not really.

1568
00:44:54,620 --> 00:44:55,260
Has the urban

1569
00:44:55,260 --> 00:44:55,640
found?

1570
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:56,320
No.

1571
00:44:57,700 --> 00:44:58,380
Are there

1572
00:44:58,380 --> 00:44:58,920
any named

1573
00:44:58,920 --> 00:44:59,360
suspects?

1574
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,160
Not at this time.

1575
00:45:04,780 --> 00:45:05,900
When an investigation

1576
00:45:05,900 --> 00:45:06,960
starts to push

1577
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:07,460
the limits

1578
00:45:07,460 --> 00:45:08,160
of standard

1579
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,060
everyday police

1580
00:45:09,060 --> 00:45:09,640
protocol,

1581
00:45:09,940 --> 00:45:10,800
I start to look

1582
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:11,600
for professionals

1583
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:12,320
on the outside

1584
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:13,240
that could assist me.

1585
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:14,720
I'm someone

1586
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:15,480
who's not

1587
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:16,940
so stubborn

1588
00:45:16,940 --> 00:45:17,540
as to admit

1589
00:45:17,540 --> 00:45:18,420
what I don't know.

1590
00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:20,020
And at this point,

1591
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:21,640
I look for

1592
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:22,620
professional help

1593
00:45:22,620 --> 00:45:23,180
in the name

1594
00:45:23,180 --> 00:45:24,960
of retired FBI agent

1595
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:25,940
John D'Souza.

1596
00:45:25,940 --> 00:45:27,440
My name is

1597
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:28,100
John D'Souza.

1598
00:45:28,340 --> 00:45:28,920
I was an FBI

1599
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:29,660
special agent

1600
00:45:29,660 --> 00:45:31,300
for 25 years.

1601
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:32,420
I've worked

1602
00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:33,380
all types

1603
00:45:33,380 --> 00:45:33,920
of cases,

1604
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,140
counterterrorism,

1605
00:45:35,660 --> 00:45:36,540
violent crimes,

1606
00:45:36,740 --> 00:45:37,540
paranormal cases

1607
00:45:37,540 --> 00:45:38,000
as well.

1608
00:45:38,460 --> 00:45:39,520
And I'm pretty

1609
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:40,040
well known

1610
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:40,580
for that sort

1611
00:45:40,580 --> 00:45:40,920
of thing.

1612
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:41,280
Now,

1613
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:41,740
your background

1614
00:45:41,740 --> 00:45:42,300
to me is

1615
00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:42,700
interesting

1616
00:45:42,700 --> 00:45:44,300
because you've

1617
00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:45,160
worked a variety

1618
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:46,600
of criminal cases.

1619
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:47,220
I worked

1620
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:47,980
the Unabomber

1621
00:45:47,980 --> 00:45:48,520
case.

1622
00:45:49,140 --> 00:45:49,660
I worked

1623
00:45:49,660 --> 00:45:51,020
1994

1624
00:45:51,020 --> 00:45:52,600
World Trade

1625
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:53,080
Center

1626
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:53,720
bombing.

1627
00:45:53,940 --> 00:45:54,300
The biggest

1628
00:45:54,300 --> 00:45:54,840
case you ever

1629
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:55,120
worked?

1630
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:56,200
It would have

1631
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:57,040
to be 9-11.

1632
00:45:57,380 --> 00:45:57,640
John,

1633
00:45:57,700 --> 00:45:58,300
how many times

1634
00:45:58,300 --> 00:45:59,040
have you testified

1635
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:00,900
in front of a U.S.

1636
00:46:00,980 --> 00:46:01,800
court for a U.S.

1637
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:02,120
attorney?

1638
00:46:02,420 --> 00:46:02,940
Maybe like

1639
00:46:02,940 --> 00:46:03,780
a hundred times.

1640
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:05,520
And how many times

1641
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:06,020
has the court

1642
00:46:06,020 --> 00:46:06,720
decided that you're

1643
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:07,080
an expert

1644
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:07,880
in a certain area?

1645
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:08,800
Probably every time

1646
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:09,380
I've testified.

1647
00:46:09,660 --> 00:46:10,380
I can't think

1648
00:46:10,380 --> 00:46:11,040
of anybody

1649
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,680
who's in a position

1650
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:13,800
more to tell

1651
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:14,480
the truth

1652
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,120
and with great

1653
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,100
things to risk

1654
00:46:17,100 --> 00:46:17,800
than you.

1655
00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:18,660
No.

1656
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:19,540
No.

1657
00:46:19,980 --> 00:46:20,680
I've had

1658
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,240
agents in the past

1659
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:22,500
say,

1660
00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:22,740
well,

1661
00:46:22,820 --> 00:46:23,140
Dave,

1662
00:46:23,140 --> 00:46:24,340
if there's

1663
00:46:24,340 --> 00:46:24,880
a series

1664
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:25,640
of events

1665
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:26,820
that

1666
00:46:26,820 --> 00:46:28,440
all kind

1667
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:29,000
of align up

1668
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:29,660
similar to

1669
00:46:29,660 --> 00:46:30,200
what you've

1670
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:30,800
written about,

1671
00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:31,740
meaning me,

1672
00:46:32,540 --> 00:46:34,020
then those

1673
00:46:34,020 --> 00:46:34,760
agents could

1674
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:35,500
be forwarding

1675
00:46:35,500 --> 00:46:36,140
those reports

1676
00:46:36,140 --> 00:46:37,180
to a profiling

1677
00:46:37,180 --> 00:46:37,540
unit,

1678
00:46:37,780 --> 00:46:38,780
and they're

1679
00:46:38,780 --> 00:46:39,240
putting the

1680
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:40,000
pieces together

1681
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:40,800
to see if

1682
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:41,480
there's connections.

1683
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:42,120
Exactly.

1684
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:42,440
Yeah,

1685
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:42,800
it's true,

1686
00:46:42,940 --> 00:46:43,020
too.

1687
00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:44,180
So who would

1688
00:46:44,180 --> 00:46:44,860
be directing

1689
00:46:44,860 --> 00:46:45,580
those agents?

1690
00:46:46,780 --> 00:46:47,260
It could be

1691
00:46:47,260 --> 00:46:47,780
Washington.

1692
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:48,660
It could be

1693
00:46:48,660 --> 00:46:49,440
the profiler

1694
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:50,420
unit,

1695
00:46:50,980 --> 00:46:52,440
behavioral sciences

1696
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:53,040
unit.

1697
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:53,880
Are there

1698
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:54,660
subject matter

1699
00:46:54,660 --> 00:46:55,940
experts on

1700
00:46:55,940 --> 00:46:56,880
UFOs,

1701
00:46:56,940 --> 00:46:57,420
aliens,

1702
00:46:57,980 --> 00:46:58,460
abductions?

1703
00:46:58,820 --> 00:46:59,020
Well,

1704
00:46:59,060 --> 00:46:59,820
that's what I was

1705
00:46:59,820 --> 00:47:00,260
while I was

1706
00:47:00,260 --> 00:47:01,580
doing it in the

1707
00:47:01,580 --> 00:47:01,960
FBI.

1708
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:03,440
And what was

1709
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,100
your conclusion

1710
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:05,260
in general

1711
00:47:05,260 --> 00:47:05,960
about these

1712
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:06,700
people that

1713
00:47:06,700 --> 00:47:07,740
claim abductions

1714
00:47:07,740 --> 00:47:08,640
and disappear

1715
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:09,700
and come back?

1716
00:47:09,820 --> 00:47:10,860
We report on,

1717
00:47:10,940 --> 00:47:11,400
the ones that

1718
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:12,260
we talk about,

1719
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,300
those are real.

1720
00:47:15,020 --> 00:47:15,560
And I do

1721
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,080
believe that

1722
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:18,500
they are

1723
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:20,160
connected to

1724
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:21,440
extradimensional

1725
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:21,920
beings,

1726
00:47:22,100 --> 00:47:22,520
beings that

1727
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:23,120
come from

1728
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:24,380
outside of

1729
00:47:24,380 --> 00:47:25,060
our reality.

1730
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:26,340
In many,

1731
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:27,040
many of my

1732
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:27,500
stories,

1733
00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:29,960
families in

1734
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:30,380
the woods,

1735
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:32,260
children are

1736
00:47:32,260 --> 00:47:32,880
right next to

1737
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:33,020
them,

1738
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:34,680
everything's

1739
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:35,020
fine.

1740
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:36,320
They turn

1741
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:37,060
around one

1742
00:47:37,060 --> 00:47:38,000
second and

1743
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:38,560
the kid's

1744
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:38,860
gone.

1745
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:39,860
They're not

1746
00:47:39,860 --> 00:47:40,600
anywhere to be

1747
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:40,820
found.

1748
00:47:41,260 --> 00:47:41,660
And the

1749
00:47:41,660 --> 00:47:42,160
statement from

1750
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:42,840
the parents is

1751
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:43,280
they were

1752
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:44,040
right there.

1753
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:45,280
And then the

1754
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:45,740
next second

1755
00:47:45,740 --> 00:47:46,140
they're gone.

1756
00:47:46,660 --> 00:47:47,320
Now, if that

1757
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,000
is true,

1758
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:49,260
that really does

1759
00:47:49,260 --> 00:47:49,940
answer a

1760
00:47:49,940 --> 00:47:50,720
conundrum about

1761
00:47:50,720 --> 00:47:51,740
how they can

1762
00:47:51,740 --> 00:47:52,360
disappear and

1763
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:52,780
nobody can

1764
00:47:52,780 --> 00:47:53,360
realize it.

1765
00:47:53,620 --> 00:47:53,760
Right.

1766
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:54,620
The time period

1767
00:47:54,620 --> 00:47:55,500
is so short

1768
00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:57,160
that their

1769
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,060
disappearance is

1770
00:47:59,060 --> 00:48:00,300
not possible in

1771
00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:01,280
our purely

1772
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:02,700
physical world.

1773
00:48:03,140 --> 00:48:04,180
So when you

1774
00:48:04,180 --> 00:48:05,000
investigated

1775
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:05,720
something like

1776
00:48:05,720 --> 00:48:06,980
this, were

1777
00:48:06,980 --> 00:48:07,400
you ever

1778
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:08,400
questioned later

1779
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,200
on by other

1780
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,040
departments or

1781
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:10,700
other agencies?

1782
00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:10,840
agencies?

1783
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:14,760
No, not by

1784
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:15,380
other agencies,

1785
00:48:15,500 --> 00:48:15,640
no.

1786
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:16,800
Departments?

1787
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:19,160
No, they

1788
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:20,080
don't want to

1789
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,080
know this

1790
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:21,700
sort of thing

1791
00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:22,800
as much as

1792
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:24,380
they can avoid

1793
00:48:24,380 --> 00:48:25,700
the knowledge

1794
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:26,500
of this, no.

1795
00:48:26,860 --> 00:48:27,900
Long time ago,

1796
00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:28,580
this is back

1797
00:48:28,580 --> 00:48:29,040
when I was a

1798
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:30,580
policeman, and

1799
00:48:30,580 --> 00:48:31,200
there were some

1800
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,140
FBI guys that

1801
00:48:32,140 --> 00:48:32,620
were working a

1802
00:48:32,620 --> 00:48:33,240
case on something

1803
00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:34,920
else, and we

1804
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:35,340
were talking

1805
00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:36,680
about, I don't

1806
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:37,280
even think it

1807
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:37,580
was anything

1808
00:48:37,580 --> 00:48:38,240
spooky or

1809
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:39,640
paranormal, but it

1810
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:40,040
was something

1811
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,020
unrelated, and

1812
00:48:41,020 --> 00:48:41,960
the agent

1813
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:43,960
said, Dave, our

1814
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:44,680
government will

1815
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:45,480
never acknowledge

1816
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,120
what they can't

1817
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:47,480
control, and I

1818
00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:48,340
always remembered

1819
00:48:48,340 --> 00:48:49,000
that statement.

1820
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:49,820
You believe

1821
00:48:49,820 --> 00:48:50,040
that?

1822
00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:51,560
Yeah, that's

1823
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:52,200
absolutely true.

1824
00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:53,280
They can't

1825
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,460
acknowledge it if

1826
00:48:54,460 --> 00:48:55,040
they can't

1827
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:56,280
control it, or

1828
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:57,140
even if they

1829
00:48:57,140 --> 00:48:58,520
think they can't

1830
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,180
control it.

1831
00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:02,780
Wow, what

1832
00:49:02,780 --> 00:49:03,400
could I say?

1833
00:49:04,180 --> 00:49:05,020
John D'Souza

1834
00:49:05,020 --> 00:49:06,560
fits your

1835
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:08,280
typical model

1836
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:09,920
of an FBI

1837
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:10,520
agent, and

1838
00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:11,040
I've dealt

1839
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:11,800
with several

1840
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:12,260
during my

1841
00:49:12,260 --> 00:49:12,640
years in

1842
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:13,200
law enforcement.

1843
00:49:13,940 --> 00:49:14,820
Ultra-credible,

1844
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:16,220
tons of

1845
00:49:16,220 --> 00:49:18,480
experience, a

1846
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:19,320
stand-up guy

1847
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:19,960
who's speaking

1848
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,360
the truth, and

1849
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:23,780
during my time

1850
00:49:23,780 --> 00:49:24,460
sitting in his

1851
00:49:24,460 --> 00:49:26,840
office, you

1852
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:27,540
probably couldn't

1853
00:49:27,540 --> 00:49:28,480
tell, but I

1854
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:29,440
was in stunned

1855
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:30,900
silence just

1856
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:32,120
listening to how

1857
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,040
he laid out the

1858
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:35,860
groundwork for

1859
00:49:35,860 --> 00:49:36,700
so many issues

1860
00:49:36,700 --> 00:49:37,400
related to our

1861
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,000
work, and he

1862
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,200
brought instant

1863
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:42,880
credibility to

1864
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:44,560
an arena where

1865
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,120
a lot of people

1866
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:45,800
don't even want

1867
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:46,460
to address.

1868
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:49,420
John's statement

1869
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:51,940
about parallel

1870
00:49:51,940 --> 00:49:53,880
dimensions, his

1871
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,120
overview of

1872
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,520
missing people, and

1873
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:57,920
his statement

1874
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:58,900
about our work

1875
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:02,080
all fell right in

1876
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,040
line with the

1877
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:04,760
1,500 people I've

1878
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:05,960
documented in the

1879
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:06,840
last 12 years.

1880
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:08,900
But that brings up

1881
00:50:08,900 --> 00:50:10,440
one of the cases

1882
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:11,920
that has continually

1883
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:12,960
sat in the back of

1884
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:14,620
my mind, and that's

1885
00:50:14,620 --> 00:50:15,260
the incident and the

1886
00:50:15,260 --> 00:50:15,880
disappearance of

1887
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,020
Reinhard Kirchner in

1888
00:50:17,020 --> 00:50:17,480
Arizona.

1889
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:20,720
So this is the spot

1890
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:22,620
in April 2007.

1891
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:24,160
Reinhard Kirchner made

1892
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:25,080
his way from

1893
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:25,620
Germany.

1894
00:50:26,620 --> 00:50:27,060
He was a

1895
00:50:27,060 --> 00:50:27,420
physicist.

1896
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:29,320
He drove his

1897
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,500
rented camper truck

1898
00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:31,860
here, parked it,

1899
00:50:31,860 --> 00:50:34,520
and started to hike.

1900
00:50:34,900 --> 00:50:35,820
He'd been here before,

1901
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:37,620
and he liked it.

1902
00:50:38,220 --> 00:50:39,760
Reinhard didn't make

1903
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,520
his meeting with his

1904
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:42,720
girlfriend at Las

1905
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:43,860
Vegas McCarran Airport.

1906
00:50:44,260 --> 00:50:45,260
She called search and

1907
00:50:45,260 --> 00:50:45,600
rescue.

1908
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:47,600
Eventually found his

1909
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:48,960
truck parked here on

1910
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,340
Navajo property,

1911
00:50:51,340 --> 00:50:52,680
started to search.

1912
00:50:53,140 --> 00:50:54,920
Several days, they

1913
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:55,440
found nothing.

1914
00:50:56,100 --> 00:50:56,980
They know that he took

1915
00:50:56,980 --> 00:50:58,440
his camera, they took

1916
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:00,380
a small backpack, and

1917
00:51:00,380 --> 00:51:01,040
he walked into

1918
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:01,620
oblivion.

1919
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:04,200
Interesting part of the

1920
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:06,020
case was, while the

1921
00:51:06,020 --> 00:51:07,140
sheriff was at his

1922
00:51:07,140 --> 00:51:09,160
truck, there were some

1923
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:10,460
local ranchers that

1924
00:51:10,460 --> 00:51:11,440
walked up and talked to

1925
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:11,580
him.

1926
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:12,800
And these people said

1927
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,180
that during the time

1928
00:51:14,180 --> 00:51:15,540
Reinhard was gone, they

1929
00:51:15,540 --> 00:51:18,020
had seen unusual lights

1930
00:51:18,020 --> 00:51:18,860
in the sky here.

1931
00:51:18,860 --> 00:51:21,720
And what is important

1932
00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:23,120
about that to me, as a

1933
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,060
law enforcement person,

1934
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,080
is that they put that

1935
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,060
in the report as

1936
00:51:27,060 --> 00:51:27,420
credible.

1937
00:51:28,420 --> 00:51:28,920
His girlfriend

1938
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:30,060
eventually flew home to

1939
00:51:30,060 --> 00:51:30,380
Germany.

1940
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:31,780
It's been over a decade

1941
00:51:31,780 --> 00:51:33,020
in Reinhardt, and his

1942
00:51:33,020 --> 00:51:33,980
property has never been

1943
00:51:33,980 --> 00:51:34,220
found.

1944
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:35,480
What compelled

1945
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:36,220
Reinhardt to this

1946
00:51:36,220 --> 00:51:36,600
location?

1947
00:51:37,260 --> 00:51:38,420
The case remains open,

1948
00:51:38,540 --> 00:51:39,860
and we may never find

1949
00:51:39,860 --> 00:51:40,300
answers.

1950
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:42,580
There is one particular

1951
00:51:42,580 --> 00:51:43,540
case where credibility

1952
00:51:43,540 --> 00:51:44,780
and evidence merge in

1953
00:51:44,780 --> 00:51:45,840
one of the most bizarre

1954
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,640
cases I've ever

1955
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:48,300
investigated.

1956
00:51:48,300 --> 00:51:49,340
One where the hunter

1957
00:51:49,340 --> 00:51:50,420
reappeared with a story

1958
00:51:50,420 --> 00:51:51,440
that tested the limits

1959
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,160
of believability, yet

1960
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:54,400
captured my imagination

1961
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,560
and strangely physical

1962
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:57,160
evidence.

1963
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:00,560
My name is Carl Higdon,

1964
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,420
and this is to talk

1965
00:52:03,420 --> 00:52:05,800
about an incident that

1966
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,540
happened in 1974.

1967
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,300
So I told my wife I was

1968
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:14,140
going to go south and go

1969
00:52:14,140 --> 00:52:14,480
hunting.

1970
00:52:15,340 --> 00:52:16,820
What percentage of the

1971
00:52:16,820 --> 00:52:17,740
time that he went out

1972
00:52:17,740 --> 00:52:19,320
hunting did you go with

1973
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:19,460
him?

1974
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:20,380
Always.

1975
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:22,440
Except this time?

1976
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:23,400
Yes.

1977
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,340
Carl and I are together

1978
00:52:25,340 --> 00:52:27,140
mostly 24-7.

1979
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,660
So on October 25th, 74?

1980
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:32,820
He went out by himself

1981
00:52:32,820 --> 00:52:33,480
completely.

1982
00:52:34,060 --> 00:52:34,920
And was that a rare

1983
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:35,320
occasion?

1984
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:36,620
Yes, very rare.

1985
00:52:37,620 --> 00:52:40,120
So that area where this

1986
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:41,960
happened, had you ever been

1987
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:42,480
there before?

1988
00:52:44,060 --> 00:52:44,500
No.

1989
00:52:44,500 --> 00:52:46,120
Describe the best you can

1990
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:47,040
where this happened at.

1991
00:52:47,180 --> 00:52:48,760
Which forest were you in?

1992
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,200
Madison Bow, National Forest.

1993
00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:55,100
The area that this happened

1994
00:52:55,100 --> 00:52:57,200
in was back to the north,

1995
00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,040
right at the edge of the forest.

1996
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:04,640
So I got inside the National Forest.

1997
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,100
I walked down, oh, maybe three

1998
00:53:08,100 --> 00:53:08,900
quarter of a mile.

1999
00:53:10,140 --> 00:53:11,420
I seen five elk.

2000
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,040
But they didn't move.

2001
00:53:15,180 --> 00:53:16,780
That was another strange thing.

2002
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:17,520
That what?

2003
00:53:17,620 --> 00:53:18,100
Say that again.

2004
00:53:18,780 --> 00:53:19,660
They didn't move.

2005
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:21,700
They just sat there.

2006
00:53:23,380 --> 00:53:26,580
Carl entered the woods, lined up on

2007
00:53:26,580 --> 00:53:27,780
a series of elk.

2008
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:30,020
And he even said that the elk

2009
00:53:30,020 --> 00:53:30,640
weren't moving.

2010
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:33,760
Leveled his rifle at the animals,

2011
00:53:34,380 --> 00:53:35,060
pulled the trigger.

2012
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:37,120
He says his gun went off.

2013
00:53:38,300 --> 00:53:40,320
The bullet came out the end of

2014
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,240
the barrel and hit some type of

2015
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:46,280
invisible force field and dropped

2016
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:46,860
to the ground.

2017
00:53:48,140 --> 00:53:50,040
That bullet was recovered by Carl

2018
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:51,700
and later analyzed.

2019
00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:53,380
And it did hit something.

2020
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:55,660
What we don't know.

2021
00:53:56,660 --> 00:53:59,120
But the unusual nature of the

2022
00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,620
travel of that ammunition is so

2023
00:54:02,620 --> 00:54:05,340
odd that I've never heard of it

2024
00:54:05,340 --> 00:54:07,140
in any type of research before.

2025
00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:09,820
You're standing there.

2026
00:54:09,900 --> 00:54:10,760
You shot the rifle.

2027
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,240
You're turning and you see the craft.

2028
00:54:14,500 --> 00:54:16,260
Give me as much detail as you can

2029
00:54:16,260 --> 00:54:17,240
on that craft, Carl.

2030
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:22,100
Well, it was like looking at a piece

2031
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:22,740
of glass.

2032
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,380
Only it had borders around it.

2033
00:54:29,020 --> 00:54:30,760
I couldn't figure out what it was

2034
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:31,420
to start with.

2035
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,080
So when you're looking at the cube,

2036
00:54:34,540 --> 00:54:36,700
can you see through it and see

2037
00:54:36,700 --> 00:54:37,560
force behind it?

2038
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:38,200
Yes.

2039
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,800
Was there anything in the cube?

2040
00:54:41,740 --> 00:54:42,820
Not that I could see.

2041
00:54:43,420 --> 00:54:47,220
So it was just like a glass square

2042
00:54:47,220 --> 00:54:49,540
on four sides, seven foot by five

2043
00:54:49,540 --> 00:54:52,140
foot, with nothing inside it,

2044
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:53,540
and you could kind of see through it.

2045
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:55,000
Right.

2046
00:54:55,340 --> 00:54:56,380
What did you think when you first

2047
00:54:56,380 --> 00:54:56,700
saw it?

2048
00:54:58,440 --> 00:54:59,400
I didn't know.

2049
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,580
I just kind of stared at it

2050
00:55:02,580 --> 00:55:05,080
because it was unusual.

2051
00:55:06,140 --> 00:55:07,640
And this guy showed up

2052
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,060
and asked me

2053
00:55:10,060 --> 00:55:12,400
if I was hungry.

2054
00:55:13,540 --> 00:55:14,240
Told him, yeah.

2055
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:18,340
So this package of four pills

2056
00:55:18,340 --> 00:55:20,400
drifted over to me

2057
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:21,900
just like it was

2058
00:55:21,900 --> 00:55:23,600
thrown at me.

2059
00:55:25,860 --> 00:55:27,000
I took one.

2060
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:29,720
Next thing I know,

2061
00:55:30,180 --> 00:55:31,060
I was in this

2062
00:55:31,060 --> 00:55:32,740
cubicle,

2063
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:33,760
but it looked a lot

2064
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:34,720
bigger.

2065
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,680
There's five elk behind me.

2066
00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:38,720
I said,

2067
00:55:38,780 --> 00:55:39,720
you got my elk.

2068
00:55:41,300 --> 00:55:42,460
He just took it at me

2069
00:55:42,460 --> 00:55:43,540
and shrugged.

2070
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:46,200
Told me what his name was,

2071
00:55:46,260 --> 00:55:46,560
Ozo.

2072
00:55:49,260 --> 00:55:50,120
And they were

2073
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:51,700
down to get food.

2074
00:55:53,700 --> 00:55:54,320
I said,

2075
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:55,640
you guys always come down.

2076
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:56,840
He said, yeah.

2077
00:55:57,620 --> 00:55:58,400
We come down

2078
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:59,160
every so often.

2079
00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:01,420
We get elk,

2080
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:03,420
deer from here

2081
00:56:03,420 --> 00:56:05,480
and go to the ocean

2082
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:06,880
and get fish

2083
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:08,660
and take it back.

2084
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:10,340
This is a drawing

2085
00:56:10,340 --> 00:56:11,160
that Carl drew

2086
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:12,020
in the hospital.

2087
00:56:13,020 --> 00:56:14,700
And the being

2088
00:56:14,700 --> 00:56:16,200
had like a hand

2089
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:17,260
that was a cone

2090
00:56:17,260 --> 00:56:19,120
and no hand here.

2091
00:56:19,660 --> 00:56:20,400
And his hair

2092
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:21,360
was like straw.

2093
00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:24,820
So this is a very

2094
00:56:24,820 --> 00:56:25,820
descriptive drawing.

2095
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:26,820
What are these

2096
00:56:26,820 --> 00:56:27,540
little things?

2097
00:56:27,540 --> 00:56:29,660
This is kind of

2098
00:56:29,660 --> 00:56:30,240
an apron

2099
00:56:30,240 --> 00:56:31,660
and it shows

2100
00:56:31,660 --> 00:56:32,680
where the,

2101
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:33,800
kind of where

2102
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:34,820
the land is

2103
00:56:34,820 --> 00:56:36,120
in his planet.

2104
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:36,840
Did he,

2105
00:56:36,980 --> 00:56:37,700
did Ozo seem

2106
00:56:37,700 --> 00:56:38,580
to have a personality?

2107
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:41,840
He seemed to.

2108
00:56:42,980 --> 00:56:43,540
Like,

2109
00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:47,140
when he had talked

2110
00:56:47,140 --> 00:56:47,560
to me,

2111
00:56:48,860 --> 00:56:50,080
his lips never moved.

2112
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:50,380
I mean,

2113
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:50,760
it was

2114
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,820
back and forth.

2115
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:55,600
But

2116
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:59,420
he seemed

2117
00:56:59,420 --> 00:57:00,000
like he knew

2118
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:00,420
a lot.

2119
00:57:01,020 --> 00:57:01,340
What color

2120
00:57:01,340 --> 00:57:02,000
was his suit?

2121
00:57:03,380 --> 00:57:03,860
Black.

2122
00:57:04,220 --> 00:57:04,600
Black.

2123
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:06,100
The entire

2124
00:57:06,100 --> 00:57:07,100
suit was black.

2125
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:09,200
Completely black

2126
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:10,520
because our

2127
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:12,040
son burns

2128
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:12,460
them.

2129
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:13,920
So they have

2130
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:14,800
to wear black

2131
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:15,820
and they wear

2132
00:57:15,820 --> 00:57:16,220
like,

2133
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:17,220
like a scuba

2134
00:57:17,220 --> 00:57:18,560
diver's suit.

2135
00:57:19,220 --> 00:57:20,040
Covers them

2136
00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:20,640
completely.

2137
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:21,880
Did Colonel

2138
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:22,320
ever say

2139
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:22,800
if he only

2140
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:23,640
had one hand

2141
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:24,200
and didn't

2142
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:24,900
draw the second

2143
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:25,480
or did he

2144
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:26,100
yes?

2145
00:57:26,220 --> 00:57:26,720
He did not

2146
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:27,260
have another

2147
00:57:27,260 --> 00:57:27,940
hand here

2148
00:57:27,940 --> 00:57:28,820
but he had

2149
00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:29,600
like a cone

2150
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:30,300
over here.

2151
00:57:30,740 --> 00:57:30,900
Colonel

2152
00:57:30,900 --> 00:57:31,740
have an opinion

2153
00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:32,360
if this was

2154
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:32,720
a male

2155
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:33,180
or female?

2156
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:35,520
He figures

2157
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:36,300
it was a male.

2158
00:57:36,580 --> 00:57:36,940
A male.

2159
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:38,120
And then

2160
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:38,640
this is

2161
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:39,380
a picture

2162
00:57:39,380 --> 00:57:40,340
of the

2163
00:57:40,340 --> 00:57:41,920
craft

2164
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,860
and this

2165
00:57:43,860 --> 00:57:44,180
was the

2166
00:57:44,180 --> 00:57:44,720
controls.

2167
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:45,540
This is

2168
00:57:45,540 --> 00:57:46,000
where

2169
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:46,640
Ozo

2170
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:47,460
sat

2171
00:57:47,460 --> 00:57:49,220
and this

2172
00:57:49,220 --> 00:57:49,560
is where

2173
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:49,920
Carl

2174
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:50,400
sat

2175
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:50,960
and

2176
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,360
there was

2177
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:53,060
still five

2178
00:57:53,060 --> 00:57:53,760
elk in here

2179
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:54,360
also.

2180
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:55,520
Then we

2181
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:56,240
lifted off

2182
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,560
and then

2183
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:57,880
I could

2184
00:57:57,880 --> 00:57:58,200
see

2185
00:57:58,200 --> 00:57:58,760
it looked

2186
00:57:58,760 --> 00:57:59,140
like a

2187
00:57:59,140 --> 00:57:59,500
ball

2188
00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:02,000
down below.

2189
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:04,180
I figured

2190
00:58:04,180 --> 00:58:04,540
it was

2191
00:58:04,540 --> 00:58:04,960
the earth.

2192
00:58:05,680 --> 00:58:06,100
I didn't

2193
00:58:06,100 --> 00:58:06,380
know.

2194
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:07,340
And he was

2195
00:58:07,340 --> 00:58:07,720
taken to

2196
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:08,220
someplace that

2197
00:58:08,220 --> 00:58:08,520
could best

2198
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:09,000
be described

2199
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:09,400
as another

2200
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:09,780
planet.

2201
00:58:10,340 --> 00:58:10,640
They took

2202
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:10,920
him behind

2203
00:58:10,920 --> 00:58:11,340
the screen

2204
00:58:11,340 --> 00:58:12,460
and eventually

2205
00:58:12,460 --> 00:58:13,280
said,

2206
00:58:13,660 --> 00:58:14,740
we don't need

2207
00:58:14,740 --> 00:58:14,900
you.

2208
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:15,900
You don't fit

2209
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:16,520
what we need.

2210
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:17,240
The implication

2211
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:17,640
of Carl

2212
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:18,420
being is that

2213
00:58:18,420 --> 00:58:18,780
he had a

2214
00:58:18,780 --> 00:58:19,220
vasectomy

2215
00:58:19,220 --> 00:58:19,580
and they

2216
00:58:19,580 --> 00:58:19,780
needed

2217
00:58:19,780 --> 00:58:20,160
somebody

2218
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:20,860
that was

2219
00:58:20,860 --> 00:58:21,580
100%

2220
00:58:21,580 --> 00:58:21,920
fertile.

2221
00:58:22,860 --> 00:58:23,360
I said,

2222
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:23,720
why?

2223
00:58:24,540 --> 00:58:25,020
I gotta

2224
00:58:25,020 --> 00:58:25,580
go home.

2225
00:58:26,940 --> 00:58:27,460
He said,

2226
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:28,440
don't worry,

2227
00:58:28,540 --> 00:58:29,000
somebody will

2228
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:29,440
come get

2229
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:29,640
you.

2230
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:30,940
They dropped

2231
00:58:30,940 --> 00:58:31,540
me off

2232
00:58:31,540 --> 00:58:32,040
and I'll

2233
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:33,040
hit the

2234
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:33,380
side of

2235
00:58:33,380 --> 00:58:33,860
this hill

2236
00:58:33,860 --> 00:58:35,100
and I'll

2237
00:58:35,100 --> 00:58:35,820
roll down

2238
00:58:35,820 --> 00:58:36,040
it.

2239
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:37,920
This is a

2240
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:38,640
critical point.

2241
00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:39,940
When Carl

2242
00:58:39,940 --> 00:58:40,780
explained that

2243
00:58:40,780 --> 00:58:41,160
he was

2244
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:41,620
dropped,

2245
00:58:42,220 --> 00:58:42,640
I've

2246
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:43,380
investigated

2247
00:58:43,380 --> 00:58:44,020
hundreds

2248
00:58:44,020 --> 00:58:44,900
of cases

2249
00:58:44,900 --> 00:58:45,880
with

2250
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:46,640
unusual

2251
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:47,540
circumstances

2252
00:58:47,540 --> 00:58:48,300
that show

2253
00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:48,900
that someone

2254
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:49,540
was dropped

2255
00:58:49,540 --> 00:58:50,040
into that

2256
00:58:50,040 --> 00:58:50,540
location.

2257
00:58:51,380 --> 00:58:52,200
This isn't

2258
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:52,740
something that's

2259
00:58:52,740 --> 00:58:53,400
normally talked

2260
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:53,800
about in

2261
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:54,540
investigations.

2262
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:55,660
A lot of

2263
00:58:55,660 --> 00:58:56,080
times it's

2264
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:56,700
just pushed

2265
00:58:56,700 --> 00:58:57,160
off his

2266
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:57,960
happenstance

2267
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:58,340
and an

2268
00:58:58,340 --> 00:58:59,500
accident that

2269
00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:00,040
the person

2270
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:00,660
fell into

2271
00:59:00,660 --> 00:59:01,160
the place.

2272
00:59:01,660 --> 00:59:02,300
There's much

2273
00:59:02,300 --> 00:59:03,060
more to this

2274
00:59:03,060 --> 00:59:03,740
and Carl

2275
00:59:03,740 --> 00:59:04,500
has explained

2276
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:04,700
it.

2277
00:59:05,320 --> 00:59:05,880
It was after

2278
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:06,460
I got off

2279
00:59:06,460 --> 00:59:06,900
work.

2280
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:08,260
I felt the

2281
00:59:08,260 --> 00:59:08,980
need to go

2282
00:59:08,980 --> 00:59:09,440
to him.

2283
00:59:09,540 --> 00:59:10,140
I felt that

2284
00:59:10,140 --> 00:59:10,780
he needed

2285
00:59:10,780 --> 00:59:12,060
me, that

2286
00:59:12,060 --> 00:59:12,740
I had to

2287
00:59:12,740 --> 00:59:13,280
go help

2288
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:13,620
him.

2289
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:14,900
So you

2290
00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:15,320
get out

2291
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:16,380
there, you

2292
00:59:16,380 --> 00:59:16,740
have the

2293
00:59:16,740 --> 00:59:17,500
sheriff there,

2294
00:59:17,540 --> 00:59:19,100
and everyone's

2295
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:19,380
looking.

2296
00:59:20,340 --> 00:59:20,860
You're

2297
00:59:20,860 --> 00:59:21,180
sitting on

2298
00:59:21,180 --> 00:59:21,500
the hill

2299
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:22,060
and you

2300
00:59:22,060 --> 00:59:22,720
eventually get

2301
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:23,780
told that

2302
00:59:23,780 --> 00:59:24,120
they found

2303
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:24,360
Carl.

2304
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,060
The deputy

2305
00:59:26,060 --> 00:59:27,000
sheriff got

2306
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:27,480
out of the

2307
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:27,800
pickup,

2308
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:29,680
crouched down

2309
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:30,120
with his

2310
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:31,440
gun, ready

2311
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:31,940
to shoot

2312
00:59:31,940 --> 00:59:32,800
Carl if

2313
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:33,460
he had to

2314
00:59:33,460 --> 00:59:34,040
because we

2315
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:34,520
did not

2316
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:35,860
know what

2317
00:59:35,860 --> 00:59:36,920
was going

2318
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:37,340
on.

2319
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:38,580
So when

2320
00:59:38,580 --> 00:59:39,080
visually

2321
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:40,100
looking at

2322
00:59:40,100 --> 00:59:40,780
Carl then,

2323
00:59:42,180 --> 00:59:42,900
did it even

2324
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:43,380
seem like it

2325
00:59:43,380 --> 00:59:43,580
was your

2326
00:59:43,580 --> 00:59:43,840
husband?

2327
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:45,740
He kept

2328
00:59:45,740 --> 00:59:46,300
looking out

2329
00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:46,860
through the

2330
00:59:46,860 --> 00:59:47,280
windshield.

2331
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:48,900
And saying,

2332
00:59:49,260 --> 00:59:49,820
my elk,

2333
00:59:50,100 --> 00:59:50,640
my elk,

2334
00:59:50,740 --> 00:59:51,140
they took

2335
00:59:51,140 --> 00:59:51,720
my elk,

2336
00:59:52,060 --> 00:59:52,500
they took

2337
00:59:52,500 --> 00:59:53,100
my elk.

2338
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:54,320
Who did

2339
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:54,640
you think

2340
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:55,220
they were?

2341
00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:56,240
I had no

2342
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:56,780
idea what

2343
00:59:56,780 --> 00:59:57,280
he was even

2344
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:58,080
talking about.

2345
00:59:58,320 --> 00:59:58,780
So at the

2346
00:59:58,780 --> 00:59:59,360
hospital they

2347
00:59:59,360 --> 00:59:59,840
do a full

2348
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:00,460
examination?

2349
01:00:00,860 --> 01:00:01,160
Mm-hmm.

2350
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:02,020
They checked

2351
01:00:02,020 --> 01:00:02,680
him over with

2352
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:03,380
a fine-tooth

2353
01:00:03,380 --> 01:00:03,760
comb.

2354
01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:05,460
First they

2355
01:00:05,460 --> 01:00:05,940
wanted to

2356
01:00:05,940 --> 01:00:06,700
know if he

2357
01:00:06,700 --> 01:00:07,300
was on any

2358
01:00:07,300 --> 01:00:07,780
drugs.

2359
01:00:08,580 --> 01:00:09,360
He was not.

2360
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:10,740
And when I

2361
01:00:10,740 --> 01:00:11,460
asked him,

2362
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:12,540
Dr.

2363
01:00:12,660 --> 01:00:13,040
Tonko,

2364
01:00:13,040 --> 01:00:15,100
about the

2365
01:00:15,100 --> 01:00:15,680
spots on

2366
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:16,220
his lungs,

2367
01:00:16,340 --> 01:00:16,700
he said,

2368
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:17,460
what spots?

2369
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:17,920
There's no

2370
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:18,440
spots.

2371
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:19,780
And in

2372
01:00:19,780 --> 01:00:20,180
the x-ray,

2373
01:00:20,260 --> 01:00:20,560
they found

2374
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:20,840
that his

2375
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:21,260
lungs were

2376
01:00:21,260 --> 01:00:21,660
completely

2377
01:00:21,660 --> 01:00:22,120
clear,

2378
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:23,220
which was

2379
01:00:23,220 --> 01:00:23,860
highly

2380
01:00:23,860 --> 01:00:24,580
suspicious

2381
01:00:24,580 --> 01:00:25,540
and unusual

2382
01:00:25,540 --> 01:00:26,540
because Carl

2383
01:00:26,540 --> 01:00:27,460
had tuberculosis

2384
01:00:27,460 --> 01:00:28,240
scars on his

2385
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:28,520
lungs.

2386
01:00:28,980 --> 01:00:29,680
So something

2387
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:30,760
happened while

2388
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:31,240
he was gone

2389
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:31,860
that cleared

2390
01:00:31,860 --> 01:00:32,540
that up.

2391
01:00:33,220 --> 01:00:33,580
At the

2392
01:00:33,580 --> 01:00:33,840
time,

2393
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:34,160
did you

2394
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:34,600
think that

2395
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:35,420
maybe something

2396
01:00:35,420 --> 01:00:36,080
happened on

2397
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:36,700
that ship

2398
01:00:36,700 --> 01:00:37,100
that they

2399
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:37,520
made you

2400
01:00:37,520 --> 01:00:38,260
pure and

2401
01:00:38,260 --> 01:00:38,520
clean?

2402
01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,820
No,

2403
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:42,440
I think it

2404
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:43,800
was when

2405
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:44,540
I was behind

2406
01:00:44,540 --> 01:00:46,440
the shield

2407
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:47,060
in there

2408
01:00:47,060 --> 01:00:48,280
because that's

2409
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:48,580
when he

2410
01:00:48,580 --> 01:00:48,860
said,

2411
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:50,240
you're not

2412
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:50,720
what we

2413
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:51,060
want,

2414
01:00:51,460 --> 01:00:52,000
we'll take

2415
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:52,520
you back.

2416
01:00:53,660 --> 01:00:54,100
And I

2417
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:54,600
figured it

2418
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:55,920
was because

2419
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:57,080
of my

2420
01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:57,900
vasectomy,

2421
01:00:58,260 --> 01:00:58,860
but I'm

2422
01:00:58,860 --> 01:00:59,320
not sure

2423
01:00:59,320 --> 01:00:59,700
of that.

2424
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:01,760
If it was

2425
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:02,320
because of

2426
01:01:02,320 --> 01:01:03,020
the vasectomy,

2427
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:04,520
was the

2428
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:05,300
insinuation

2429
01:01:05,300 --> 01:01:05,940
that if you

2430
01:01:05,940 --> 01:01:06,540
didn't have

2431
01:01:06,540 --> 01:01:06,780
one,

2432
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:07,520
you weren't

2433
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:08,140
coming back?

2434
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,520
That's

2435
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:11,840
what I

2436
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:12,220
gathered.

2437
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:14,540
So Carl

2438
01:01:14,540 --> 01:01:15,300
insinuates

2439
01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:16,360
that the

2440
01:01:16,360 --> 01:01:16,780
entities

2441
01:01:16,780 --> 01:01:17,440
didn't want

2442
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:18,600
him because

2443
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:19,420
his reproductive

2444
01:01:19,420 --> 01:01:21,080
system wasn't

2445
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:21,620
intact.

2446
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:24,000
Now,

2447
01:01:24,220 --> 01:01:25,120
if it

2448
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:25,560
was,

2449
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:27,120
we probably

2450
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:27,780
wouldn't even

2451
01:01:27,780 --> 01:01:28,360
be talking

2452
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:28,960
about this

2453
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:29,300
story.

2454
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:33,220
So I read

2455
01:01:33,220 --> 01:01:33,760
a name,

2456
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:34,500
and you can

2457
01:01:34,500 --> 01:01:34,920
explain this

2458
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:35,200
to me,

2459
01:01:35,260 --> 01:01:35,900
Dr. Leon

2460
01:01:35,900 --> 01:01:36,360
Sprinkle.

2461
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:37,100
How did

2462
01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:37,460
he come

2463
01:01:37,460 --> 01:01:37,760
into the

2464
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:38,000
picture,

2465
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:38,340
and what

2466
01:01:38,340 --> 01:01:38,580
would he

2467
01:01:38,580 --> 01:01:38,760
do?

2468
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:39,740
He was

2469
01:01:39,740 --> 01:01:40,520
a psychologist,

2470
01:01:41,180 --> 01:01:41,540
and he

2471
01:01:41,540 --> 01:01:41,960
was with

2472
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:42,100
the

2473
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:42,620
University

2474
01:01:42,620 --> 01:01:43,380
of Wyoming,

2475
01:01:43,880 --> 01:01:45,180
and he

2476
01:01:45,180 --> 01:01:46,620
studies UFO

2477
01:01:46,620 --> 01:01:48,180
people,

2478
01:01:48,380 --> 01:01:49,220
contactees.

2479
01:01:50,340 --> 01:01:50,960
He could

2480
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:51,480
not say

2481
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:51,780
that he

2482
01:01:51,780 --> 01:01:52,200
actually

2483
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:52,660
believed

2484
01:01:52,660 --> 01:01:52,940
him,

2485
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:53,880
but he

2486
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:54,120
couldn't

2487
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:54,520
say that

2488
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:54,940
he did

2489
01:01:54,940 --> 01:01:55,300
not.

2490
01:01:55,660 --> 01:01:55,860
Carl

2491
01:01:55,860 --> 01:01:56,240
took a

2492
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:56,920
lie detector

2493
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:57,580
test.

2494
01:01:58,120 --> 01:01:58,440
In fact,

2495
01:01:58,500 --> 01:01:58,940
he took,

2496
01:01:59,380 --> 01:01:59,680
I don't know,

2497
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:00,100
three or

2498
01:02:00,100 --> 01:02:00,580
four of

2499
01:02:00,580 --> 01:02:00,700
them.

2500
01:02:01,260 --> 01:02:01,460
What

2501
01:02:01,460 --> 01:02:01,680
were the

2502
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:02,020
results

2503
01:02:02,020 --> 01:02:02,380
of those?

2504
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:03,400
He's

2505
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:03,640
telling

2506
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:04,260
the truth

2507
01:02:04,260 --> 01:02:04,660
as he

2508
01:02:04,660 --> 01:02:05,160
believes.

2509
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:07,540
I don't

2510
01:02:07,540 --> 01:02:07,980
know what

2511
01:02:07,980 --> 01:02:08,260
other

2512
01:02:08,260 --> 01:02:08,640
people

2513
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:09,180
think,

2514
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:12,080
but if

2515
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:12,460
they don't

2516
01:02:12,460 --> 01:02:13,000
believe it,

2517
01:02:13,540 --> 01:02:14,240
they don't

2518
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:14,680
have to.

2519
01:02:17,340 --> 01:02:17,980
I mean,

2520
01:02:18,020 --> 01:02:18,560
everybody's

2521
01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:18,900
their own

2522
01:02:18,900 --> 01:02:19,340
opinion.

2523
01:02:20,780 --> 01:02:21,240
I know

2524
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:21,780
what happened

2525
01:02:21,780 --> 01:02:22,220
to me.

2526
01:02:22,220 --> 01:02:28,140
I'm

2527
01:02:28,140 --> 01:02:28,420
Richard

2528
01:02:28,420 --> 01:02:28,840
Beckwith.

2529
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:29,520
I am

2530
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:29,800
the

2531
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:30,040
city

2532
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:30,320
attorney

2533
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:30,520
for

2534
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:30,700
the

2535
01:02:30,700 --> 01:02:30,880
city

2536
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:31,020
of

2537
01:02:31,020 --> 01:02:31,220
Rock

2538
01:02:31,220 --> 01:02:31,580
Springs.

2539
01:02:31,980 --> 01:02:32,300
I'm

2540
01:02:32,300 --> 01:02:32,560
also

2541
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:32,860
the

2542
01:02:32,860 --> 01:02:33,180
state

2543
01:02:33,180 --> 01:02:33,560
director

2544
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:33,860
for

2545
01:02:33,860 --> 01:02:34,060
the

2546
01:02:34,060 --> 01:02:34,500
Mutual

2547
01:02:34,500 --> 01:02:34,980
UFO

2548
01:02:34,980 --> 01:02:35,500
Network,

2549
01:02:35,860 --> 01:02:36,360
and I

2550
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:36,660
have been

2551
01:02:36,660 --> 01:02:37,120
a practicing

2552
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:37,420
attorney

2553
01:02:37,420 --> 01:02:37,680
for the

2554
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:38,260
last 26

2555
01:02:38,260 --> 01:02:38,620
years.

2556
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:40,000
Can you

2557
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:40,220
give us

2558
01:02:40,220 --> 01:02:40,600
a general

2559
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:41,040
overview

2560
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:41,400
of what

2561
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:41,720
MUFON

2562
01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:42,060
does?

2563
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:42,460
We

2564
01:02:42,460 --> 01:02:43,160
are a

2565
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:43,780
worldwide

2566
01:02:43,780 --> 01:02:44,460
or global

2567
01:02:44,460 --> 01:02:45,100
organization

2568
01:02:45,100 --> 01:02:45,520
dedicated

2569
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:46,040
to the

2570
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:46,480
study of

2571
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:47,060
UFOs

2572
01:02:47,060 --> 01:02:47,360
for the

2573
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:47,700
benefit

2574
01:02:47,700 --> 01:02:47,940
of

2575
01:02:47,940 --> 01:02:48,460
humanity,

2576
01:02:48,860 --> 01:02:49,160
and I'd

2577
01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:49,440
like to

2578
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:49,740
think that

2579
01:02:49,740 --> 01:02:50,020
that is

2580
01:02:50,020 --> 01:02:50,400
exactly

2581
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:50,800
what we

2582
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:51,040
do.

2583
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:51,940
An

2584
01:02:51,940 --> 01:02:52,300
incident

2585
01:02:52,300 --> 01:02:52,940
that I

2586
01:02:52,940 --> 01:02:53,440
interviewed

2587
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,080
the victim

2588
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:56,480
about was

2589
01:02:56,480 --> 01:02:56,920
a man

2590
01:02:56,920 --> 01:02:57,400
named Carl

2591
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:57,780
Higdon.

2592
01:02:58,060 --> 01:02:58,380
I do

2593
01:02:58,380 --> 01:02:58,980
remember that

2594
01:02:58,980 --> 01:02:59,740
taking place.

2595
01:02:59,820 --> 01:03:00,120
I think I

2596
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:00,660
was 14

2597
01:03:00,660 --> 01:03:01,120
years old

2598
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:01,400
when it

2599
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:01,700
happened.

2600
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:02,400
I'd like

2601
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:02,580
to know

2602
01:03:02,580 --> 01:03:02,940
your thoughts

2603
01:03:02,940 --> 01:03:03,320
about it.

2604
01:03:03,540 --> 01:03:03,700
Well,

2605
01:03:03,740 --> 01:03:04,000
first of

2606
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:04,100
all,

2607
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:04,380
I don't

2608
01:03:04,380 --> 01:03:05,300
think that

2609
01:03:05,300 --> 01:03:05,800
Carl

2610
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:06,360
was lying.

2611
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:06,880
I know

2612
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:07,200
Dr.

2613
01:03:07,260 --> 01:03:07,560
Sprinkle

2614
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:08,060
very well,

2615
01:03:08,140 --> 01:03:08,360
Dr.

2616
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:08,660
Leo

2617
01:03:08,660 --> 01:03:09,040
Sprinkle.

2618
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:09,740
He

2619
01:03:09,740 --> 01:03:10,380
investigated

2620
01:03:10,380 --> 01:03:11,080
that case

2621
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:11,820
and did

2622
01:03:11,820 --> 01:03:12,480
some

2623
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:13,240
hypnosis,

2624
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:13,520
some

2625
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:13,920
regressive

2626
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:14,480
hypnosis

2627
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:15,260
with Mr.

2628
01:03:15,260 --> 01:03:15,540
Higdon,

2629
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:15,900
and his

2630
01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:16,320
impression

2631
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:16,680
of the

2632
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:16,960
case

2633
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:17,240
was

2634
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:17,560
that

2635
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:18,320
Mr.

2636
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:18,660
Higdon

2637
01:03:18,660 --> 01:03:19,520
was telling

2638
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:20,040
the truth

2639
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:20,380
or at

2640
01:03:20,380 --> 01:03:20,540
least

2641
01:03:20,540 --> 01:03:20,820
what he

2642
01:03:20,820 --> 01:03:21,240
believed

2643
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:21,640
to be

2644
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:21,820
the

2645
01:03:21,820 --> 01:03:22,040
truth.

2646
01:03:22,380 --> 01:03:22,780
So some

2647
01:03:22,780 --> 01:03:22,960
of the

2648
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:23,140
things

2649
01:03:23,140 --> 01:03:23,360
about

2650
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:23,540
that

2651
01:03:23,540 --> 01:03:23,920
case

2652
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,000
to me

2653
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:25,380
reeked

2654
01:03:25,380 --> 01:03:25,520
of

2655
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:26,020
credibility.

2656
01:03:26,500 --> 01:03:27,100
He had

2657
01:03:27,100 --> 01:03:28,640
lung congestion

2658
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:29,500
and scarring

2659
01:03:29,500 --> 01:03:30,160
on his lungs

2660
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:30,920
before the

2661
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:31,240
incident

2662
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,420
and subsequent

2663
01:03:33,420 --> 01:03:33,960
to it

2664
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:35,080
his lungs

2665
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:35,540
were clear

2666
01:03:35,540 --> 01:03:37,160
and then

2667
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:38,760
the issue

2668
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:39,420
about the

2669
01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:39,720
bullet

2670
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:40,900
coming out

2671
01:03:40,900 --> 01:03:41,100
of the

2672
01:03:41,100 --> 01:03:41,320
gun

2673
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:41,880
and stopping

2674
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:42,260
and hitting

2675
01:03:42,260 --> 01:03:42,840
something

2676
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:43,280
and being

2677
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:43,680
recovered

2678
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:44,000
and even

2679
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:44,600
analyzed.

2680
01:03:44,980 --> 01:03:45,320
Right.

2681
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:46,920
They did

2682
01:03:46,920 --> 01:03:47,500
examine the

2683
01:03:47,500 --> 01:03:47,720
bullet

2684
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:48,520
and find

2685
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:49,340
that it

2686
01:03:49,340 --> 01:03:49,880
had struck

2687
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:50,520
something

2688
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:51,880
and something

2689
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:52,820
really hard

2690
01:03:52,820 --> 01:03:53,520
that has

2691
01:03:53,520 --> 01:03:53,800
these

2692
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:54,760
physiological

2693
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:55,760
characteristics

2694
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:56,120
that are

2695
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:56,320
just

2696
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:57,180
unexplained.

2697
01:03:58,060 --> 01:03:58,380
So in

2698
01:03:58,380 --> 01:03:59,180
your experience

2699
01:03:59,180 --> 01:03:59,980
and in your

2700
01:03:59,980 --> 01:04:00,800
readings of

2701
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:01,300
people who

2702
01:04:01,300 --> 01:04:01,780
have been

2703
01:04:01,780 --> 01:04:02,360
abducted,

2704
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:03,820
how does

2705
01:04:03,820 --> 01:04:04,280
the Higdon

2706
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:05,100
case compare

2707
01:04:05,100 --> 01:04:05,920
as far as

2708
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:06,660
the physical

2709
01:04:06,660 --> 01:04:07,100
evidence?

2710
01:04:08,380 --> 01:04:08,980
Most

2711
01:04:08,980 --> 01:04:10,480
abduction

2712
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:11,540
cases don't

2713
01:04:11,540 --> 01:04:12,980
really involve

2714
01:04:12,980 --> 01:04:13,420
a lot of

2715
01:04:13,420 --> 01:04:14,240
physical evidence.

2716
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:15,520
We have

2717
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:16,040
the Higdon

2718
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:16,460
incident,

2719
01:04:17,140 --> 01:04:17,660
a Hunter

2720
01:04:17,660 --> 01:04:19,520
German

2721
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:20,120
surname

2722
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:21,720
hunting elk

2723
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:22,820
by himself

2724
01:04:22,820 --> 01:04:24,100
claims he's

2725
01:04:24,100 --> 01:04:24,800
been abducted.

2726
01:04:25,900 --> 01:04:26,700
In that

2727
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:27,620
same general

2728
01:04:27,620 --> 01:04:28,180
area,

2729
01:04:28,940 --> 01:04:29,600
just last

2730
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:29,880
year,

2731
01:04:30,020 --> 01:04:30,300
there was

2732
01:04:30,300 --> 01:04:30,880
a guy

2733
01:04:30,880 --> 01:04:31,100
named

2734
01:04:31,100 --> 01:04:31,380
Mark

2735
01:04:31,380 --> 01:04:31,900
Stripmader.

2736
01:04:32,340 --> 01:04:32,580
You know

2737
01:04:32,580 --> 01:04:32,900
about that

2738
01:04:32,900 --> 01:04:33,140
case?

2739
01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:33,540
A couple

2740
01:04:33,540 --> 01:04:33,940
of different

2741
01:04:33,940 --> 01:04:34,580
things that I

2742
01:04:34,580 --> 01:04:35,120
find interesting

2743
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:35,620
about that

2744
01:04:35,620 --> 01:04:36,260
case is that

2745
01:04:36,260 --> 01:04:36,820
here you've

2746
01:04:36,820 --> 01:04:37,040
got an

2747
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:37,420
individual

2748
01:04:37,420 --> 01:04:38,140
that's the

2749
01:04:38,140 --> 01:04:38,960
same age

2750
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:39,700
approximately

2751
01:04:39,700 --> 01:04:40,380
as Mr.

2752
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:40,640
Higdon,

2753
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:41,480
also about

2754
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:41,880
the same

2755
01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:42,360
time of

2756
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:42,640
year.

2757
01:04:43,300 --> 01:04:44,340
Mr. Higdon's

2758
01:04:44,340 --> 01:04:45,020
incident took

2759
01:04:45,020 --> 01:04:45,400
place on

2760
01:04:45,400 --> 01:04:46,440
October 25th,

2761
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:47,160
1974,

2762
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:49,000
and Mr.

2763
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:50,300
Stripmader went

2764
01:04:50,300 --> 01:04:51,520
missing on

2765
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,860
October 19th of

2766
01:04:53,860 --> 01:04:56,840
2019, almost 35

2767
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:58,200
years exactly to

2768
01:04:58,200 --> 01:04:59,480
the day, in a

2769
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:00,700
relatively similar

2770
01:05:00,700 --> 01:05:01,360
location.

2771
01:05:02,980 --> 01:05:04,160
So we're on

2772
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:05,520
Forestry Road 801,

2773
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,840
and we are in

2774
01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:10,940
the area where

2775
01:05:10,940 --> 01:05:12,080
Mark Stripmader

2776
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:13,940
was coming to

2777
01:05:13,940 --> 01:05:14,580
go elk hunting

2778
01:05:14,580 --> 01:05:15,760
on October 19th,

2779
01:05:15,780 --> 01:05:17,040
2019, in the

2780
01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:17,560
Medicine Bow

2781
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:18,440
National Forest.

2782
01:05:19,700 --> 01:05:20,480
In about 200

2783
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:21,340
yards before

2784
01:05:21,340 --> 01:05:22,100
Forestry Road

2785
01:05:22,100 --> 01:05:24,080
830, he pulls

2786
01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:24,740
to the side of

2787
01:05:24,740 --> 01:05:25,860
the road for

2788
01:05:25,860 --> 01:05:26,460
some reason,

2789
01:05:27,320 --> 01:05:27,940
and there's some

2790
01:05:27,940 --> 01:05:28,560
theories behind

2791
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:29,400
maybe he was

2792
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:29,860
pulling over

2793
01:05:29,860 --> 01:05:30,680
because he saw

2794
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:31,980
one of his

2795
01:05:31,980 --> 01:05:32,700
hunting targets,

2796
01:05:33,020 --> 01:05:33,560
big bull,

2797
01:05:33,860 --> 01:05:34,600
cross the road,

2798
01:05:34,740 --> 01:05:35,220
deer, who

2799
01:05:35,220 --> 01:05:36,740
knows, but he

2800
01:05:36,740 --> 01:05:37,340
pulls to the

2801
01:05:37,340 --> 01:05:37,780
side of the

2802
01:05:37,780 --> 01:05:39,140
road, stops,

2803
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:40,420
gets out of

2804
01:05:40,420 --> 01:05:40,940
his vehicle,

2805
01:05:41,620 --> 01:05:43,220
and he takes

2806
01:05:43,220 --> 01:05:44,080
a light coat,

2807
01:05:45,460 --> 01:05:46,260
a light day

2808
01:05:46,260 --> 01:05:47,180
pack, leaves

2809
01:05:47,180 --> 01:05:47,840
his big pack

2810
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:48,400
in the car,

2811
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:50,300
leaves his keys

2812
01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:51,160
in the vehicle,

2813
01:05:51,780 --> 01:05:52,780
and he gets

2814
01:05:52,780 --> 01:05:53,020
out.

2815
01:05:54,700 --> 01:05:55,660
Off camera,

2816
01:05:55,820 --> 01:05:56,260
the search and

2817
01:05:56,260 --> 01:05:56,840
rescue person

2818
01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:58,360
told me that

2819
01:05:58,360 --> 01:05:59,720
Mark was a

2820
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:01,520
15-year veteran

2821
01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,820
outfitter for

2822
01:06:03,820 --> 01:06:04,820
big game in

2823
01:06:04,820 --> 01:06:05,360
this area.

2824
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:06,940
So he knew

2825
01:06:06,940 --> 01:06:07,400
the outdoors

2826
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:08,240
super well,

2827
01:06:08,740 --> 01:06:09,160
he knew how

2828
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:09,660
to track,

2829
01:06:09,660 --> 01:06:11,360
and he knew

2830
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:11,940
elk didn't

2831
01:06:11,940 --> 01:06:12,420
walk in a

2832
01:06:12,420 --> 01:06:12,940
straight line.

2833
01:06:13,140 --> 01:06:13,800
Elk take off

2834
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:14,360
and they wander.

2835
01:06:15,180 --> 01:06:16,580
So to think

2836
01:06:16,580 --> 01:06:17,360
that Mark is

2837
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:17,880
more than a

2838
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:19,000
mile, two

2839
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:19,440
miles from

2840
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:19,940
here chasing

2841
01:06:19,940 --> 01:06:20,640
an elk doesn't

2842
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:21,160
make a lot of

2843
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:21,420
sense.

2844
01:06:22,420 --> 01:06:23,020
My name is

2845
01:06:23,020 --> 01:06:23,600
Ken Meese.

2846
01:06:23,700 --> 01:06:24,200
I was girlfriend

2847
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:24,860
of Mark

2848
01:06:24,860 --> 01:06:25,580
Stripmatter when

2849
01:06:25,580 --> 01:06:25,840
he went

2850
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:26,080
missing.

2851
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:27,400
In your view,

2852
01:06:27,620 --> 01:06:28,560
what made

2853
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:29,300
Mark special?

2854
01:06:29,700 --> 01:06:30,320
He was just

2855
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:31,480
a giving

2856
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:32,120
person.

2857
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:34,120
So how

2858
01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:34,940
comfortable was he

2859
01:06:34,940 --> 01:06:35,500
in the woods?

2860
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:37,000
Oh, he grew up

2861
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:37,660
in the woods.

2862
01:06:38,340 --> 01:06:38,840
He started

2863
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:39,860
hunting as soon

2864
01:06:39,860 --> 01:06:40,420
as he could,

2865
01:06:40,620 --> 01:06:41,380
12, 13

2866
01:06:41,380 --> 01:06:42,040
years old.

2867
01:06:42,500 --> 01:06:43,480
He knew what

2868
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:43,840
he was doing?

2869
01:06:43,920 --> 01:06:44,300
Oh, yeah.

2870
01:06:44,940 --> 01:06:45,480
And the area

2871
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:46,400
that he went

2872
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:47,200
missing from,

2873
01:06:47,640 --> 01:06:48,300
where I found

2874
01:06:48,300 --> 01:06:49,240
his truck at,

2875
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:50,460
we never hunted

2876
01:06:50,460 --> 01:06:51,040
that area.

2877
01:06:52,020 --> 01:06:52,700
But that morning

2878
01:06:52,700 --> 01:06:53,180
that he had

2879
01:06:53,180 --> 01:06:53,960
went out on

2880
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:54,840
the 19th

2881
01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:55,340
that he went

2882
01:06:55,340 --> 01:06:55,800
missing,

2883
01:06:56,380 --> 01:06:56,940
I had already

2884
01:06:56,940 --> 01:06:57,560
made plans

2885
01:06:57,560 --> 01:06:58,040
to come to

2886
01:06:58,040 --> 01:06:59,580
Rollins to

2887
01:06:59,580 --> 01:06:59,960
watch my

2888
01:06:59,960 --> 01:07:00,680
grandkids,

2889
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:02,260
and he knew

2890
01:07:02,260 --> 01:07:02,700
that there was

2891
01:07:02,700 --> 01:07:03,400
a snowstorm

2892
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:04,000
coming in,

2893
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:04,420
and I was

2894
01:07:04,420 --> 01:07:04,920
worried about

2895
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:05,160
him.

2896
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:07,240
And he

2897
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:07,960
tried calling

2898
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,120
and sent me

2899
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:09,900
a text and

2900
01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:10,400
said that he

2901
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:10,980
had missed

2902
01:07:10,980 --> 01:07:13,640
an elk and

2903
01:07:13,640 --> 01:07:14,040
that he was

2904
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:14,540
done.

2905
01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:15,860
So I assumed

2906
01:07:15,860 --> 01:07:16,340
he was coming

2907
01:07:16,340 --> 01:07:17,560
back to Saratoga,

2908
01:07:18,020 --> 01:07:19,080
which is a 40

2909
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:20,380
minute drive from

2910
01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:21,360
where we hunt

2911
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:21,700
from.

2912
01:07:22,420 --> 01:07:23,460
So I hung out

2913
01:07:23,460 --> 01:07:24,160
around the house

2914
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:24,840
for a little bit

2915
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:26,560
and he never

2916
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:27,360
showed up and

2917
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:28,220
I left and I

2918
01:07:28,220 --> 01:07:28,980
was trying to

2919
01:07:28,980 --> 01:07:29,520
get a hold of

2920
01:07:29,520 --> 01:07:30,820
him that night

2921
01:07:30,820 --> 01:07:31,300
to make sure

2922
01:07:31,300 --> 01:07:31,880
he made it back

2923
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:32,540
before the snow

2924
01:07:32,540 --> 01:07:32,860
hit.

2925
01:07:32,860 --> 01:07:34,740
And trying

2926
01:07:34,740 --> 01:07:35,260
to call

2927
01:07:35,260 --> 01:07:36,000
and text

2928
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:36,900
and texts

2929
01:07:36,900 --> 01:07:37,560
weren't delivered.

2930
01:07:37,820 --> 01:07:38,320
Phone calls

2931
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:38,660
were going

2932
01:07:38,660 --> 01:07:39,220
directly to

2933
01:07:39,220 --> 01:07:39,840
voicemail.

2934
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:41,140
I hauled

2935
01:07:41,140 --> 01:07:41,720
Aspa up

2936
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:42,660
there looking

2937
01:07:42,660 --> 01:07:43,480
for the truck

2938
01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:44,700
and then when

2939
01:07:44,700 --> 01:07:45,120
I got to

2940
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:45,880
that intersection

2941
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:46,540
I looked

2942
01:07:46,540 --> 01:07:47,260
to my left

2943
01:07:47,260 --> 01:07:47,640
and that's

2944
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:48,020
where I saw

2945
01:07:48,020 --> 01:07:48,500
the pickup

2946
01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:49,280
was sitting.

2947
01:07:50,340 --> 01:07:51,100
Explain how

2948
01:07:51,100 --> 01:07:51,620
it was sitting.

2949
01:07:52,140 --> 01:07:52,700
It was

2950
01:07:52,700 --> 01:07:54,160
on the

2951
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:55,400
east side

2952
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:55,800
of the road

2953
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:56,700
facing north.

2954
01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:58,800
Did it look

2955
01:07:58,800 --> 01:07:59,420
like he parked

2956
01:07:59,420 --> 01:07:59,720
it there?

2957
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:00,260
Yeah.

2958
01:08:01,520 --> 01:08:02,080
Did it look

2959
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:02,500
out of place

2960
01:08:02,500 --> 01:08:02,860
to you at

2961
01:08:02,860 --> 01:08:02,980
all?

2962
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:03,360
Yeah.

2963
01:08:04,060 --> 01:08:04,720
It did?

2964
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:05,260
It did.

2965
01:08:05,460 --> 01:08:05,900
And when I

2966
01:08:05,900 --> 01:08:06,740
got to it

2967
01:08:06,740 --> 01:08:08,020
like I said

2968
01:08:08,020 --> 01:08:09,000
it had snowed

2969
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:10,000
and I had

2970
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:10,600
to clean off

2971
01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:11,620
probably 12

2972
01:08:11,620 --> 01:08:12,560
15 inches

2973
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:12,980
of snow

2974
01:08:12,980 --> 01:08:13,540
just to get

2975
01:08:13,540 --> 01:08:14,140
into it

2976
01:08:14,140 --> 01:08:15,920
and when

2977
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:16,460
we would

2978
01:08:16,460 --> 01:08:16,800
hunt

2979
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:17,320
we always

2980
01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:17,720
left our

2981
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:18,000
key

2982
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:18,360
and our

2983
01:08:18,360 --> 01:08:18,760
gas

2984
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:19,400
thing

2985
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:20,860
so I

2986
01:08:20,860 --> 01:08:21,260
was able

2987
01:08:21,260 --> 01:08:21,680
to get

2988
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:22,060
in the

2989
01:08:22,060 --> 01:08:22,460
truck

2990
01:08:22,460 --> 01:08:23,520
and that's

2991
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:23,760
when I

2992
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:24,200
found his

2993
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:24,640
phone

2994
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,060
and cigarettes

2995
01:08:26,060 --> 01:08:27,280
his medication

2996
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:28,100
the only thing

2997
01:08:28,100 --> 01:08:28,680
that was missing

2998
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:29,280
was him

2999
01:08:29,280 --> 01:08:29,620
and his

3000
01:08:29,620 --> 01:08:30,040
pack

3001
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:30,660
and gun

3002
01:08:30,660 --> 01:08:31,820
So when

3003
01:08:31,820 --> 01:08:32,360
he texted

3004
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:32,960
you last

3005
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:33,280
what did

3006
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:33,680
it say?

3007
01:08:34,220 --> 01:08:35,080
The last text

3008
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:35,720
it says

3009
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:36,720
I got it

3010
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:37,700
11 o'clock

3011
01:08:37,700 --> 01:08:38,120
it says

3012
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:38,540
I'm done

3013
01:08:38,540 --> 01:08:39,300
I suck

3014
01:08:39,300 --> 01:08:40,340
missed a nice

3015
01:08:40,340 --> 01:08:41,000
five pointer

3016
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:42,100
small six

3017
01:08:42,100 --> 01:08:43,320
and a small

3018
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:44,080
five pointer

3019
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:44,500
in

3020
01:08:44,500 --> 01:08:45,160
and a perfect

3021
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:46,340
broadside shot

3022
01:08:46,340 --> 01:08:47,200
even closer

3023
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:48,500
but I thought

3024
01:08:48,500 --> 01:08:49,660
I had one down

3025
01:08:49,660 --> 01:08:51,000
but walked down

3026
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:51,780
to find shit

3027
01:08:51,780 --> 01:08:53,140
so from

3028
01:08:53,140 --> 01:08:53,700
that

3029
01:08:53,700 --> 01:08:55,340
it kind

3030
01:08:55,340 --> 01:08:55,640
of sounded

3031
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:55,920
like he

3032
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:56,280
was done

3033
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:57,240
Yeah

3034
01:08:57,240 --> 01:08:57,840
and that's

3035
01:08:57,840 --> 01:08:58,120
what I

3036
01:08:58,120 --> 01:08:58,560
assumed

3037
01:08:58,560 --> 01:08:59,280
that maybe

3038
01:08:59,280 --> 01:08:59,580
he was

3039
01:08:59,580 --> 01:09:00,040
coming back

3040
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:00,640
to town

3041
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:01,600
You find

3042
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:02,040
the truck

3043
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:03,220
you can't

3044
01:09:03,220 --> 01:09:03,760
find him

3045
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:04,820
do you look

3046
01:09:04,820 --> 01:09:05,380
around at all

3047
01:09:05,380 --> 01:09:05,880
or do you

3048
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:06,800
just call

3049
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:07,100
the sheriff

3050
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:07,980
No

3051
01:09:07,980 --> 01:09:08,800
I walked

3052
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:09,200
around the

3053
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:09,560
area

3054
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:10,880
just to see

3055
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:11,300
if I could

3056
01:09:11,300 --> 01:09:11,780
see any

3057
01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:12,220
track

3058
01:09:12,220 --> 01:09:12,760
or anything

3059
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:14,420
and I

3060
01:09:14,420 --> 01:09:14,860
didn't see

3061
01:09:14,860 --> 01:09:15,380
anything

3062
01:09:15,380 --> 01:09:17,100
so I came

3063
01:09:17,100 --> 01:09:17,760
back to

3064
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:18,500
Saratoga

3065
01:09:18,500 --> 01:09:19,660
and called

3066
01:09:19,660 --> 01:09:20,300
the sheriff's

3067
01:09:20,300 --> 01:09:20,620
deputy

3068
01:09:20,620 --> 01:09:21,780
So right

3069
01:09:21,780 --> 01:09:22,300
off the bat

3070
01:09:22,300 --> 01:09:22,980
we came

3071
01:09:22,980 --> 01:09:23,320
in

3072
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:24,340
the first

3073
01:09:24,340 --> 01:09:24,640
day

3074
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:25,100
we came

3075
01:09:25,100 --> 01:09:25,400
in with

3076
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:25,600
a whole

3077
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:25,820
bunch

3078
01:09:25,820 --> 01:09:26,140
of ground

3079
01:09:26,140 --> 01:09:26,600
pounders

3080
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:26,900
and we

3081
01:09:26,900 --> 01:09:27,120
just

3082
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:28,020
went

3083
01:09:28,020 --> 01:09:28,300
shoulder

3084
01:09:28,300 --> 01:09:28,480
to

3085
01:09:28,480 --> 01:09:28,720
shoulder

3086
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:29,460
and walked

3087
01:09:29,460 --> 01:09:29,760
timber

3088
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:30,720
and then we

3089
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:31,100
went around

3090
01:09:31,100 --> 01:09:31,420
and picked

3091
01:09:31,420 --> 01:09:31,740
a different

3092
01:09:31,740 --> 01:09:32,140
spot

3093
01:09:32,140 --> 01:09:32,980
near the

3094
01:09:32,980 --> 01:09:33,280
truck

3095
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:34,300
and chose

3096
01:09:34,300 --> 01:09:34,580
a different

3097
01:09:34,580 --> 01:09:34,960
direction

3098
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:35,540
and started

3099
01:09:35,540 --> 01:09:35,860
pounding

3100
01:09:35,860 --> 01:09:36,440
more timber

3101
01:09:36,440 --> 01:09:37,480
That initial

3102
01:09:37,480 --> 01:09:38,000
search

3103
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:38,460
how many

3104
01:09:38,460 --> 01:09:38,840
days did it

3105
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:39,160
last?

3106
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:40,960
The first

3107
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:41,380
time around

3108
01:09:41,380 --> 01:09:41,700
I think

3109
01:09:41,700 --> 01:09:43,440
was seven

3110
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:44,040
days if I'm

3111
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:44,580
not mistaken

3112
01:09:44,580 --> 01:09:45,660
So like I

3113
01:09:45,660 --> 01:09:46,060
said we were

3114
01:09:46,060 --> 01:09:47,040
gone for the

3115
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:47,660
first two

3116
01:09:47,660 --> 01:09:48,180
days of it

3117
01:09:48,180 --> 01:09:48,840
and then when

3118
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:49,400
we got back

3119
01:09:49,400 --> 01:09:49,940
we took off

3120
01:09:49,940 --> 01:09:51,460
and looked

3121
01:09:51,460 --> 01:09:51,920
for him

3122
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:53,100
and I think

3123
01:09:53,100 --> 01:09:53,720
total I had

3124
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:54,280
five days

3125
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:54,600
in it

3126
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:55,860
And was there

3127
01:09:55,860 --> 01:09:56,520
a subsequent

3128
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:57,320
effort to find

3129
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:57,460
it?

3130
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:58,540
We did go back

3131
01:09:58,540 --> 01:09:59,320
this spring

3132
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:01,700
We spent a full

3133
01:10:01,700 --> 01:10:02,660
day with quite a few

3134
01:10:02,660 --> 01:10:03,520
resources out

3135
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:05,540
and three different

3136
01:10:05,540 --> 01:10:06,160
dog teams

3137
01:10:06,160 --> 01:10:07,020
Did your canines

3138
01:10:07,020 --> 01:10:07,960
hit on any scent

3139
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:08,280
anywhere?

3140
01:10:08,980 --> 01:10:10,200
I never had a hit

3141
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:11,540
How odd is it not

3142
01:10:11,540 --> 01:10:12,460
to pick up any scent?

3143
01:10:14,140 --> 01:10:14,620
Very

3144
01:10:14,620 --> 01:10:16,740
As much ground

3145
01:10:16,740 --> 01:10:17,300
as we covered

3146
01:10:17,300 --> 01:10:17,820
and as many

3147
01:10:17,820 --> 01:10:18,660
different wind

3148
01:10:18,660 --> 01:10:19,380
patterns as we

3149
01:10:19,380 --> 01:10:19,620
hit

3150
01:10:19,620 --> 01:10:21,460
You would think

3151
01:10:21,460 --> 01:10:22,640
you know

3152
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:23,320
law of averages

3153
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:23,860
you'd at least

3154
01:10:23,860 --> 01:10:24,260
get a head

3155
01:10:24,260 --> 01:10:24,980
turn out of it

3156
01:10:24,980 --> 01:10:26,020
Somebody should

3157
01:10:26,020 --> 01:10:26,320
have at least

3158
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:26,960
tripped over him

3159
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:27,520
the amount of

3160
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:27,900
people we've

3161
01:10:27,900 --> 01:10:28,280
had out

3162
01:10:28,280 --> 01:10:29,440
And we flew

3163
01:10:29,440 --> 01:10:30,080
drones in the

3164
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:30,420
canyon

3165
01:10:30,420 --> 01:10:31,320
Well

3166
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:32,220
three of the

3167
01:10:32,220 --> 01:10:32,540
canyons

3168
01:10:32,540 --> 01:10:33,220
we flew drones

3169
01:10:33,220 --> 01:10:33,580
in them

3170
01:10:33,580 --> 01:10:34,800
Did you have

3171
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:35,100
any other

3172
01:10:35,100 --> 01:10:35,480
kind of air

3173
01:10:35,480 --> 01:10:35,800
support?

3174
01:10:36,420 --> 01:10:36,740
We did

3175
01:10:36,740 --> 01:10:37,080
We had

3176
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:37,720
civil air

3177
01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:38,420
the last

3178
01:10:38,420 --> 01:10:38,580
fall

3179
01:10:38,580 --> 01:10:38,800
we had

3180
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:39,240
civil air

3181
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:39,420
in

3182
01:10:39,420 --> 01:10:39,920
and they

3183
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:40,320
flew for

3184
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:40,480
us

3185
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:40,880
for a couple

3186
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:41,220
days

3187
01:10:41,220 --> 01:10:42,380
Was there

3188
01:10:42,380 --> 01:10:43,060
any evidence

3189
01:10:43,060 --> 01:10:43,600
anywhere of

3190
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:44,420
animal predation?

3191
01:10:45,640 --> 01:10:45,900
You know

3192
01:10:45,900 --> 01:10:46,160
what?

3193
01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:46,720
I saw

3194
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:47,960
we tracked

3195
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:48,500
one bear

3196
01:10:48,500 --> 01:10:49,880
to see

3197
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:50,840
where he was

3198
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:51,260
going to go

3199
01:10:51,260 --> 01:10:52,800
but the only

3200
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:53,140
other thing

3201
01:10:53,140 --> 01:10:53,560
I noticed

3202
01:10:53,560 --> 01:10:54,200
is we never

3203
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:54,700
had birds

3204
01:10:54,700 --> 01:10:55,160
during that

3205
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:55,440
search

3206
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:57,020
And birds

3207
01:10:57,020 --> 01:10:57,260
are an

3208
01:10:57,260 --> 01:10:57,960
indicator of?

3209
01:10:58,280 --> 01:10:58,760
A body

3210
01:10:58,760 --> 01:11:00,720
You can

3211
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:01,000
kind of

3212
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:01,360
hone in

3213
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:01,760
onto it

3214
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:02,560
by the birds

3215
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:02,840
Yeah

3216
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:03,440
And I mean

3217
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:04,240
I run

3218
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:04,560
dogs

3219
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:04,980
I'm a firm

3220
01:11:04,980 --> 01:11:05,460
believer in

3221
01:11:05,460 --> 01:11:05,700
dogs

3222
01:11:05,700 --> 01:11:06,060
but at the

3223
01:11:06,060 --> 01:11:06,520
same time

3224
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:07,040
if the birds

3225
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:07,500
already have

3226
01:11:07,500 --> 01:11:07,920
eyes on

3227
01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:08,020
them

3228
01:11:08,020 --> 01:11:08,380
that makes

3229
01:11:08,380 --> 01:11:08,840
it a lot

3230
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:09,200
easier

3231
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:10,540
And how

3232
01:11:10,540 --> 01:11:10,840
odd

3233
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:11,240
was this

3234
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:11,580
search

3235
01:11:11,580 --> 01:11:13,920
Very

3236
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:14,480
to not

3237
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:16,620
Most people

3238
01:11:16,620 --> 01:11:17,020
have kind

3239
01:11:17,020 --> 01:11:17,500
of a

3240
01:11:17,500 --> 01:11:18,080
pattern

3241
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:18,540
I mean

3242
01:11:18,540 --> 01:11:19,580
if you're

3243
01:11:19,580 --> 01:11:20,060
out hunting

3244
01:11:20,060 --> 01:11:21,020
and you

3245
01:11:21,020 --> 01:11:22,100
see an elk

3246
01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:22,960
run across

3247
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:23,360
the road

3248
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:24,440
you're probably

3249
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:24,760
going to go

3250
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:25,260
find a spot

3251
01:11:25,260 --> 01:11:25,620
to actually

3252
01:11:25,620 --> 01:11:25,940
park

3253
01:11:25,940 --> 01:11:26,340
not just

3254
01:11:26,340 --> 01:11:26,780
pull to the

3255
01:11:26,780 --> 01:11:26,980
edge of

3256
01:11:26,980 --> 01:11:27,260
the road

3257
01:11:27,260 --> 01:11:27,640
and jump

3258
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:27,960
out

3259
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:29,200
How difficult

3260
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:29,600
would it be

3261
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:29,920
for somebody

3262
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:30,580
to be lost

3263
01:11:30,580 --> 01:11:30,960
in there?

3264
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:34,140
If you

3265
01:11:34,140 --> 01:11:34,700
really wanted

3266
01:11:34,700 --> 01:11:35,000
out

3267
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,180
everything around

3268
01:11:36,180 --> 01:11:36,340
here

3269
01:11:36,340 --> 01:11:36,640
you just

3270
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:37,240
walk downhill

3271
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:37,680
until you

3272
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:38,160
find a road

3273
01:11:38,160 --> 01:11:39,200
And you'll

3274
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:39,480
eventually

3275
01:11:39,480 --> 01:11:39,860
hit a road?

3276
01:11:39,980 --> 01:11:40,280
Eventually

3277
01:11:40,280 --> 01:11:40,620
you might

3278
01:11:40,620 --> 01:11:40,820
have to

3279
01:11:40,820 --> 01:11:41,000
cross

3280
01:11:41,000 --> 01:11:41,360
private

3281
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:41,800
property

3282
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:42,540
but if

3283
01:11:42,540 --> 01:11:42,700
you're

3284
01:11:42,700 --> 01:11:42,900
worried

3285
01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:43,100
about

3286
01:11:43,100 --> 01:11:43,380
dying

3287
01:11:43,380 --> 01:11:43,620
in the

3288
01:11:43,620 --> 01:11:43,760
middle

3289
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:44,040
of it

3290
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:44,640
who cares?

3291
01:11:45,080 --> 01:11:45,480
So in

3292
01:11:45,480 --> 01:11:46,080
talking to

3293
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:46,460
the search

3294
01:11:46,460 --> 01:11:46,820
and rescue

3295
01:11:46,820 --> 01:11:47,240
people

3296
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:48,880
I asked

3297
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:49,020
them

3298
01:11:49,020 --> 01:11:49,280
I said

3299
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:49,600
so

3300
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:50,620
was there

3301
01:11:50,620 --> 01:11:50,780
anything

3302
01:11:50,780 --> 01:11:51,000
odd

3303
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:51,180
about

3304
01:11:51,180 --> 01:11:51,460
this?

3305
01:11:52,300 --> 01:11:52,840
The whole

3306
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:53,020
thing

3307
01:11:53,020 --> 01:11:53,440
was odd

3308
01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:54,040
Yeah

3309
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:55,260
So they

3310
01:11:55,260 --> 01:11:55,560
said

3311
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:56,520
the canines

3312
01:11:56,520 --> 01:11:56,800
didn't

3313
01:11:56,800 --> 01:11:57,120
pick up

3314
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:57,460
scent

3315
01:11:57,460 --> 01:11:57,840
No

3316
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:59,300
They didn't

3317
01:11:59,300 --> 01:11:59,640
see any

3318
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:00,020
tracks

3319
01:12:00,020 --> 01:12:01,320
They never

3320
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:01,720
recovered

3321
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:02,060
any of

3322
01:12:02,060 --> 01:12:02,540
his property

3323
01:12:02,540 --> 01:12:04,840
The weather

3324
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:05,420
changed the

3325
01:12:05,420 --> 01:12:05,800
next day

3326
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:06,080
and if

3327
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:06,840
Mark knew

3328
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:07,480
the weather

3329
01:12:07,480 --> 01:12:08,040
was changing

3330
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:08,500
he wouldn't

3331
01:12:08,500 --> 01:12:08,980
stay out

3332
01:12:08,980 --> 01:12:09,200
there

3333
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:09,540
No

3334
01:12:09,540 --> 01:12:11,360
At what

3335
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:11,880
point

3336
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:12,760
did you

3337
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:13,120
tell

3338
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:13,780
yourself

3339
01:12:13,780 --> 01:12:16,080
Hey Mark

3340
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:16,400
may not

3341
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:16,740
be coming

3342
01:12:16,740 --> 01:12:17,160
back

3343
01:12:17,160 --> 01:12:20,060
After

3344
01:12:20,060 --> 01:12:20,720
they got

3345
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:20,920
done

3346
01:12:20,920 --> 01:12:21,320
searching

3347
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:23,000
they just

3348
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:23,280
said

3349
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:24,320
you know

3350
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:25,600
it doesn't

3351
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:26,180
look good

3352
01:12:26,180 --> 01:12:27,860
A lot

3353
01:12:27,860 --> 01:12:28,360
of people

3354
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:29,640
said a lot

3355
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:30,260
of strange

3356
01:12:30,260 --> 01:12:30,720
things about

3357
01:12:30,720 --> 01:12:31,260
this case

3358
01:12:31,260 --> 01:12:32,600
and

3359
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:34,300
in your

3360
01:12:34,300 --> 01:12:34,860
time with

3361
01:12:34,860 --> 01:12:35,160
Mark

3362
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:35,720
out there

3363
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:36,320
did you

3364
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:36,660
guys ever

3365
01:12:36,660 --> 01:12:37,040
experience

3366
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:37,380
anything

3367
01:12:37,380 --> 01:12:37,660
weird?

3368
01:12:38,780 --> 01:12:39,600
As far

3369
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:40,000
as

3370
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:40,760
Anything

3371
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:41,100
weird?

3372
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:43,100
He was

3373
01:12:43,100 --> 01:12:43,400
out

3374
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:44,140
hunting

3375
01:12:44,140 --> 01:12:45,000
deer

3376
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:45,560
during

3377
01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:46,020
rifle

3378
01:12:46,020 --> 01:12:47,040
and he

3379
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:47,620
swore he

3380
01:12:47,620 --> 01:12:48,300
saw UFO

3381
01:12:48,300 --> 01:12:48,900
out there

3382
01:12:48,900 --> 01:12:49,900
He was

3383
01:12:49,900 --> 01:12:50,420
coming

3384
01:12:50,420 --> 01:12:50,860
out

3385
01:12:50,860 --> 01:12:51,380
from

3386
01:12:51,380 --> 01:12:51,880
hunting

3387
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:53,040
and he

3388
01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:53,600
just

3389
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:53,880
happened

3390
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:54,260
to look

3391
01:12:54,260 --> 01:12:54,600
up

3392
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:55,000
and

3393
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:55,900
saw

3394
01:12:55,900 --> 01:12:56,380
like

3395
01:12:56,380 --> 01:12:56,780
he said

3396
01:12:56,780 --> 01:12:56,960
it was

3397
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:57,100
just

3398
01:12:57,100 --> 01:12:57,280
like

3399
01:12:57,280 --> 01:12:57,640
hovering

3400
01:12:57,640 --> 01:12:58,300
following

3401
01:12:58,300 --> 01:12:58,540
him

3402
01:12:58,540 --> 01:12:59,560
and it

3403
01:12:59,560 --> 01:12:59,780
freaked

3404
01:12:59,780 --> 01:12:59,960
him

3405
01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:00,300
out

3406
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:01,520
and he

3407
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:02,160
tried

3408
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:02,500
to

3409
01:13:02,500 --> 01:13:03,100
look

3410
01:13:03,100 --> 01:13:03,420
at it

3411
01:13:03,420 --> 01:13:03,560
through

3412
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:03,720
his

3413
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:04,320
binoculars

3414
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:04,660
but it

3415
01:13:04,660 --> 01:13:04,780
was

3416
01:13:04,780 --> 01:13:05,020
getting

3417
01:13:05,020 --> 01:13:05,480
dark

3418
01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:06,960
and

3419
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,120
so

3420
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:08,440
it

3421
01:13:08,440 --> 01:13:09,140
scared

3422
01:13:09,140 --> 01:13:09,500
him

3423
01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:10,160
What

3424
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:10,300
did it

3425
01:13:10,300 --> 01:13:10,460
look

3426
01:13:10,460 --> 01:13:10,660
like

3427
01:13:10,660 --> 01:13:10,800
to

3428
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:10,960
him?

3429
01:13:11,500 --> 01:13:11,860
He

3430
01:13:11,860 --> 01:13:12,140
said

3431
01:13:12,140 --> 01:13:12,240
it

3432
01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:12,380
was

3433
01:13:12,380 --> 01:13:12,580
just

3434
01:13:12,580 --> 01:13:12,780
like

3435
01:13:12,780 --> 01:13:12,940
a

3436
01:13:12,940 --> 01:13:13,320
black

3437
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:14,680
hover

3438
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:14,880
it

3439
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:15,020
was

3440
01:13:15,020 --> 01:13:15,200
just

3441
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:15,860
black

3442
01:13:15,860 --> 01:13:16,040
it

3443
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:16,120
was

3444
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:16,300
just

3445
01:13:16,300 --> 01:13:16,720
hovering

3446
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:18,340
And

3447
01:13:18,340 --> 01:13:18,460
it

3448
01:13:18,460 --> 01:13:18,780
scared

3449
01:13:18,780 --> 01:13:19,000
him?

3450
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:19,360
Yeah

3451
01:13:19,360 --> 01:13:19,720
because

3452
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:19,860
it

3453
01:13:19,860 --> 01:13:20,000
was

3454
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:20,200
like

3455
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:20,320
it

3456
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:20,460
was

3457
01:13:20,460 --> 01:13:20,880
following

3458
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:21,080
him

3459
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:21,420
out

3460
01:13:21,420 --> 01:13:22,920
Another

3461
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:23,160
odd

3462
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:23,620
question

3463
01:13:23,620 --> 01:13:24,640
did

3464
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:24,840
Mark

3465
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:25,020
have

3466
01:13:25,020 --> 01:13:25,160
a

3467
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:25,640
vasectomy?

3468
01:13:26,600 --> 01:13:26,800
A

3469
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:27,440
vasectomy?

3470
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:27,800
No

3471
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:28,520
He

3472
01:13:28,520 --> 01:13:28,840
didn't

3473
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:30,220
And

3474
01:13:30,220 --> 01:13:30,520
did

3475
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:30,620
he

3476
01:13:30,620 --> 01:13:30,800
say

3477
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:30,960
how

3478
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:31,120
long

3479
01:13:31,120 --> 01:13:31,240
he

3480
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:31,420
saw

3481
01:13:31,420 --> 01:13:31,620
this

3482
01:13:31,620 --> 01:13:31,860
thing?

3483
01:13:33,460 --> 01:13:33,900
He

3484
01:13:33,900 --> 01:13:34,140
said

3485
01:13:34,140 --> 01:13:34,240
it

3486
01:13:34,240 --> 01:13:34,340
was

3487
01:13:34,340 --> 01:13:34,520
just

3488
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:34,860
following

3489
01:13:34,860 --> 01:13:35,160
him

3490
01:13:35,160 --> 01:13:36,120
and

3491
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:36,420
then

3492
01:13:36,420 --> 01:13:36,620
it

3493
01:13:36,620 --> 01:13:36,900
just

3494
01:13:36,900 --> 01:13:37,580
disappeared

3495
01:13:37,580 --> 01:13:38,740
What

3496
01:13:38,740 --> 01:13:38,860
did

3497
01:13:38,860 --> 01:13:38,960
you

3498
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:39,140
think

3499
01:13:39,140 --> 01:13:39,260
when

3500
01:13:39,260 --> 01:13:39,360
you

3501
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:39,520
heard

3502
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:39,760
that?

3503
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:40,620
It

3504
01:13:40,620 --> 01:13:40,760
kind

3505
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:40,840
of

3506
01:13:40,840 --> 01:13:41,020
freaked

3507
01:13:41,020 --> 01:13:41,240
me

3508
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:41,540
out

3509
01:13:41,540 --> 01:13:41,780
because

3510
01:13:41,780 --> 01:13:41,860
he

3511
01:13:41,860 --> 01:13:42,000
was

3512
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:42,260
freaked

3513
01:13:42,260 --> 01:13:42,640
out

3514
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:43,760
And

3515
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:43,840
he

3516
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:43,920
was

3517
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:44,020
a

3518
01:13:44,020 --> 01:13:44,160
pretty

3519
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:44,420
calm

3520
01:13:44,420 --> 01:13:44,720
guy

3521
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:46,520
And

3522
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:46,660
would

3523
01:13:46,660 --> 01:13:46,900
he

3524
01:13:46,900 --> 01:13:47,160
be

3525
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:47,260
the

3526
01:13:47,260 --> 01:13:47,400
kind

3527
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:47,480
of

3528
01:13:47,480 --> 01:13:47,660
person

3529
01:13:47,660 --> 01:13:47,760
to

3530
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:47,860
ever

3531
01:13:47,860 --> 01:13:48,060
make

3532
01:13:48,060 --> 01:13:48,160
up

3533
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:48,440
stories

3534
01:13:48,440 --> 01:13:48,620
like

3535
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:55,360
That's

3536
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:55,580
crossed

3537
01:13:55,580 --> 01:13:55,780
my

3538
01:13:55,780 --> 01:13:56,000
mind

3539
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:56,280
too

3540
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:57,360
after

3541
01:13:57,360 --> 01:13:57,540
he

3542
01:13:57,540 --> 01:13:57,720
told

3543
01:13:57,720 --> 01:13:57,840
me

3544
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:58,020
that

3545
01:13:58,020 --> 01:13:58,440
story

3546
01:13:58,440 --> 01:13:59,800
Maybe

3547
01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:00,020
there

3548
01:14:00,020 --> 01:14:00,260
was

3549
01:14:00,260 --> 01:14:00,560
something

3550
01:14:00,560 --> 01:14:00,840
out

3551
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:01,120
there

3552
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:02,520
So

3553
01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:02,740
how

3554
01:14:02,740 --> 01:14:02,920
many

3555
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:03,160
years

3556
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:03,280
were

3557
01:14:03,280 --> 01:14:03,380
you

3558
01:14:03,380 --> 01:14:03,540
guys

3559
01:14:03,540 --> 01:14:03,780
together

3560
01:14:03,780 --> 01:14:04,180
13?

3561
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:04,580
13

3562
01:14:04,580 --> 01:14:06,520
And

3563
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:07,380
when

3564
01:14:07,380 --> 01:14:07,880
he

3565
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:08,680
disappeared

3566
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:09,080
how

3567
01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:09,220
would

3568
01:14:09,220 --> 01:14:09,300
you

3569
01:14:09,300 --> 01:14:09,700
describe

3570
01:14:09,700 --> 01:14:09,840
your

3571
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:10,400
relationship

3572
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:10,960
that

3573
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:11,300
previous

3574
01:14:11,300 --> 01:14:11,660
week?

3575
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:13,080
Um

3576
01:14:13,080 --> 01:14:14,380
normal

3577
01:14:14,380 --> 01:14:14,960
Normal

3578
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:15,340
Yeah

3579
01:14:15,340 --> 01:14:16,020
And

3580
01:14:16,020 --> 01:14:16,140
how

3581
01:14:16,140 --> 01:14:16,220
did

3582
01:14:16,220 --> 01:14:16,360
Mark

3583
01:14:16,360 --> 01:14:16,500
get

3584
01:14:16,500 --> 01:14:16,680
along

3585
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:16,840
with

3586
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:16,960
your

3587
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:17,220
kids?

3588
01:14:18,300 --> 01:14:18,820
Fine

3589
01:14:18,820 --> 01:14:19,900
How

3590
01:14:19,900 --> 01:14:20,040
did

3591
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:20,320
Marley

3592
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:20,600
take

3593
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:20,880
this?

3594
01:14:21,340 --> 01:14:21,580
Well

3595
01:14:21,580 --> 01:14:21,800
she

3596
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,600
I'm

3597
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:24,780
in a

3598
01:14:24,780 --> 01:14:24,980
rough

3599
01:14:24,980 --> 01:14:25,500
time

3600
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:29,980
And

3601
01:14:29,980 --> 01:14:30,100
when

3602
01:14:30,100 --> 01:14:30,220
you

3603
01:14:30,220 --> 01:14:30,420
sit

3604
01:14:30,420 --> 01:14:30,520
and

3605
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:30,640
you

3606
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:30,820
talk

3607
01:14:30,820 --> 01:14:30,960
to

3608
01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:31,240
Marley

3609
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:31,560
about

3610
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:31,740
it

3611
01:14:31,740 --> 01:14:32,620
what

3612
01:14:32,620 --> 01:14:32,680
do

3613
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:32,700
you

3614
01:14:32,700 --> 01:14:32,840
guys

3615
01:14:32,840 --> 01:14:33,040
talk

3616
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:33,280
about

3617
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:39,480
She's

3618
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:39,680
just

3619
01:14:39,680 --> 01:14:40,020
sad

3620
01:14:40,020 --> 01:14:40,180
that

3621
01:14:40,180 --> 01:14:40,340
he's

3622
01:14:40,340 --> 01:14:40,540
not

3623
01:14:40,540 --> 01:14:40,840
here

3624
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:41,320
anymore

3625
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,160
Yeah

3626
01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:44,480
she

3627
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:44,740
took

3628
01:14:44,740 --> 01:14:44,880
a

3629
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:45,260
heart

3630
01:14:45,260 --> 01:14:45,780
and

3631
01:14:45,780 --> 01:14:46,280
finally

3632
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:48,480
she

3633
01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:48,760
just

3634
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:49,000
kept

3635
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:49,460
asking

3636
01:14:49,460 --> 01:14:49,680
me

3637
01:14:49,680 --> 01:14:50,000
after

3638
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:50,200
he

3639
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:50,640
left

3640
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:52,000
if

3641
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:52,100
he

3642
01:14:52,100 --> 01:14:52,260
was

3643
01:14:52,260 --> 01:14:52,580
coming

3644
01:14:52,580 --> 01:14:53,200
back

3645
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,740
it

3646
01:14:55,740 --> 01:14:55,920
looks

3647
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:56,160
hard

3648
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:56,340
for

3649
01:14:56,340 --> 01:14:56,480
me

3650
01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:56,660
to

3651
01:14:56,660 --> 01:14:56,900
talk

3652
01:14:56,900 --> 01:14:57,100
to

3653
01:14:57,100 --> 01:14:57,160
her

3654
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:57,440
about

3655
01:14:57,440 --> 01:14:57,720
it

3656
01:14:57,720 --> 01:15:03,600
So

3657
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:03,760
the

3658
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:03,980
million

3659
01:15:03,980 --> 01:15:04,200
dollar

3660
01:15:04,200 --> 01:15:04,640
question

3661
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:05,440
would

3662
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:05,600
have

3663
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:05,740
no

3664
01:15:05,740 --> 01:15:05,940
Mark

3665
01:15:05,940 --> 01:15:06,180
strip

3666
01:15:06,180 --> 01:15:06,500
made her

3667
01:15:06,500 --> 01:15:08,440
but that

3668
01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:08,640
same

3669
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:09,020
question

3670
01:15:09,020 --> 01:15:09,360
can be

3671
01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:09,680
applied

3672
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:10,100
to the

3673
01:15:10,100 --> 01:15:10,460
thousands

3674
01:15:10,460 --> 01:15:10,720
of

3675
01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:10,960
other

3676
01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:11,340
cases

3677
01:15:11,340 --> 01:15:11,740
I've

3678
01:15:11,740 --> 01:15:12,340
investigated

3679
01:15:12,340 --> 01:15:14,000
that

3680
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:14,240
follow

3681
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:14,460
the

3682
01:15:14,460 --> 01:15:14,640
same

3683
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:15,060
profile

3684
01:15:15,060 --> 01:15:15,540
points

3685
01:15:15,540 --> 01:15:16,800
we've

3686
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:17,180
discussed

3687
01:15:17,180 --> 01:15:17,520
here

3688
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:21,500
families

3689
01:15:21,500 --> 01:15:21,780
don't

3690
01:15:21,780 --> 01:15:21,980
have

3691
01:15:21,980 --> 01:15:22,480
answers

3692
01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:23,720
we

3693
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:24,060
move

3694
01:15:24,060 --> 01:15:24,280
on

3695
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:24,380
to

3696
01:15:24,380 --> 01:15:24,540
the

3697
01:15:24,540 --> 01:15:24,760
next

3698
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:25,220
case

3699
01:15:25,220 --> 01:15:27,100
and

3700
01:15:27,100 --> 01:15:27,300
it's

3701
01:15:27,300 --> 01:15:27,600
something

3702
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:27,880
that

3703
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:28,300
follows

3704
01:15:28,300 --> 01:15:28,600
me

3705
01:15:28,600 --> 01:15:29,020
every

3706
01:15:29,020 --> 01:15:29,380
day

3707
01:15:29,380 --> 01:15:32,160
I

3708
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:32,300
have

3709
01:15:32,300 --> 01:15:32,580
great

3710
01:15:32,580 --> 01:15:33,140
empathy

3711
01:15:33,140 --> 01:15:33,420
for

3712
01:15:33,420 --> 01:15:33,560
the

3713
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:33,980
families

3714
01:15:33,980 --> 01:15:34,440
that

3715
01:15:34,440 --> 01:15:34,540
are

3716
01:15:34,540 --> 01:15:34,720
left

3717
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:35,080
behind

3718
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:42,480
I've

3719
01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:42,660
always

3720
01:15:42,660 --> 01:15:42,940
been

3721
01:15:42,940 --> 01:15:43,300
of

3722
01:15:43,300 --> 01:15:43,400
the

3723
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:43,680
opinion

3724
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:43,900
that

3725
01:15:43,900 --> 01:15:44,080
there

3726
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:44,300
are

3727
01:15:44,300 --> 01:15:45,900
such

3728
01:15:45,900 --> 01:15:46,040
a

3729
01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:46,240
thing

3730
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:46,460
as

3731
01:15:46,460 --> 01:15:47,320
coincidences

3732
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:48,460
just

3733
01:15:48,460 --> 01:15:49,620
east

3734
01:15:49,620 --> 01:15:50,040
of

3735
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:50,240
where

3736
01:15:50,240 --> 01:15:50,540
Carl

3737
01:15:50,540 --> 01:15:50,960
disappeared

3738
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:51,200
there

3739
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:51,400
was

3740
01:15:51,400 --> 01:15:51,780
another

3741
01:15:51,780 --> 01:15:52,160
man

3742
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:52,940
named

3743
01:15:52,940 --> 01:15:53,620
Gustafson

3744
01:15:53,620 --> 01:15:54,620
and

3745
01:15:54,620 --> 01:15:54,900
he

3746
01:15:54,900 --> 01:15:55,040
was

3747
01:15:55,040 --> 01:15:55,240
from

3748
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:55,740
Minnesota

3749
01:15:55,740 --> 01:15:56,360
another

3750
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:56,660
elk

3751
01:15:56,660 --> 01:15:56,880
hunter

3752
01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:57,980
and

3753
01:15:57,980 --> 01:15:58,420
he

3754
01:15:58,420 --> 01:15:58,760
also

3755
01:15:58,760 --> 01:15:59,360
disappeared

3756
01:15:59,360 --> 01:15:59,720
and

3757
01:15:59,720 --> 01:15:59,880
was

3758
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:00,100
never

3759
01:16:00,100 --> 01:16:00,340
found

3760
01:16:00,340 --> 01:16:00,460
now

3761
01:16:00,460 --> 01:16:00,600
he

3762
01:16:00,600 --> 01:16:00,760
was

3763
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:01,020
older

3764
01:16:01,020 --> 01:16:01,180
he

3765
01:16:01,180 --> 01:16:01,320
was

3766
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:01,420
in

3767
01:16:01,420 --> 01:16:01,620
his

3768
01:16:01,620 --> 01:16:02,240
70s

3769
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:03,100
also

3770
01:16:03,100 --> 01:16:03,300
in

3771
01:16:03,300 --> 01:16:03,620
medicine

3772
01:16:03,620 --> 01:16:03,880
bow

3773
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:04,880
but

3774
01:16:04,880 --> 01:16:05,140
those

3775
01:16:05,140 --> 01:16:05,820
three

3776
01:16:05,820 --> 01:16:06,280
cases

3777
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:06,820
were

3778
01:16:06,820 --> 01:16:07,080
in

3779
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:07,680
geographical

3780
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:08,400
proximity

3781
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:08,640
to

3782
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:08,780
one

3783
01:16:08,780 --> 01:16:09,100
another

3784
01:16:09,100 --> 01:16:12,780
well

3785
01:16:12,780 --> 01:16:12,940
we're

3786
01:16:12,940 --> 01:16:13,040
in

3787
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:13,160
the

3788
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:13,480
medicine

3789
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:13,740
bow

3790
01:16:13,740 --> 01:16:14,180
national

3791
01:16:14,180 --> 01:16:14,540
forest

3792
01:16:14,540 --> 01:16:14,760
about

3793
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:15,160
20

3794
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:15,700
miles

3795
01:16:15,700 --> 01:16:16,580
due

3796
01:16:16,580 --> 01:16:17,060
east

3797
01:16:17,060 --> 01:16:17,860
of

3798
01:16:17,860 --> 01:16:18,080
where

3799
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:18,300
the

3800
01:16:18,300 --> 01:16:18,700
Higdon

3801
01:16:18,700 --> 01:16:19,000
and

3802
01:16:19,000 --> 01:16:19,240
strip

3803
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:19,420
mater

3804
01:16:19,420 --> 01:16:19,800
case

3805
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:20,240
happened

3806
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:21,160
same

3807
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:21,540
forest

3808
01:16:21,540 --> 01:16:22,080
different

3809
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:22,660
location

3810
01:16:22,660 --> 01:16:24,060
about

3811
01:16:24,060 --> 01:16:25,640
8,000

3812
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:26,240
9,000

3813
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:26,500
feet

3814
01:16:26,500 --> 01:16:27,040
high up

3815
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:28,200
and

3816
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:28,580
this

3817
01:16:28,580 --> 01:16:28,760
is

3818
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:28,920
the

3819
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:29,440
location

3820
01:16:29,440 --> 01:16:29,900
that

3821
01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:30,380
Charles

3822
01:16:30,380 --> 01:16:31,160
Gustafson

3823
01:16:31,160 --> 01:16:32,280
a

3824
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:32,680
72

3825
01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:33,120
year old

3826
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:33,420
man

3827
01:16:33,420 --> 01:16:33,760
from

3828
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:34,220
Minnesota

3829
01:16:34,220 --> 01:16:34,800
came

3830
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:34,960
out

3831
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:35,120
with

3832
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:35,280
his

3833
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:35,620
family

3834
01:16:35,620 --> 01:16:36,900
and

3835
01:16:36,900 --> 01:16:37,120
on

3836
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:37,600
October

3837
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:38,600
11th

3838
01:16:38,600 --> 01:16:39,480
2006

3839
01:16:39,480 --> 01:16:40,760
split

3840
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:40,940
up

3841
01:16:40,940 --> 01:16:41,100
from

3842
01:16:41,100 --> 01:16:41,240
his

3843
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:41,580
family

3844
01:16:41,580 --> 01:16:42,380
and

3845
01:16:42,380 --> 01:16:42,480
they

3846
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:42,840
decided

3847
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:43,000
to

3848
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:43,120
hunt

3849
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:43,440
different

3850
01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:43,900
areas

3851
01:16:43,900 --> 01:16:45,440
Gustafson

3852
01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:45,660
went

3853
01:16:45,660 --> 01:16:45,860
off

3854
01:16:45,860 --> 01:16:46,000
for

3855
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:46,120
the

3856
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:46,380
day

3857
01:16:46,380 --> 01:16:47,240
he

3858
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:47,400
didn't

3859
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:47,600
come

3860
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:47,820
back

3861
01:16:47,820 --> 01:16:48,080
that

3862
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:48,380
night

3863
01:16:48,380 --> 01:16:49,520
family

3864
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:49,880
members

3865
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:50,100
got

3866
01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:50,700
concerned

3867
01:16:50,700 --> 01:16:51,680
he

3868
01:16:51,680 --> 01:16:51,820
was

3869
01:16:51,820 --> 01:16:52,180
carrying

3870
01:16:52,180 --> 01:16:52,640
a

3871
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:52,920
trail

3872
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:53,260
side

3873
01:16:53,260 --> 01:16:53,940
GPS

3874
01:16:53,940 --> 01:16:54,660
he

3875
01:16:54,660 --> 01:16:54,760
had

3876
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:54,920
a

3877
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:55,340
compass

3878
01:16:55,340 --> 01:16:56,180
he

3879
01:16:56,180 --> 01:16:56,300
had

3880
01:16:56,300 --> 01:16:56,560
food

3881
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:56,700
he

3882
01:16:56,700 --> 01:16:56,820
had

3883
01:16:56,820 --> 01:16:57,160
water

3884
01:16:57,160 --> 01:16:57,860
the

3885
01:16:57,860 --> 01:16:58,240
interesting

3886
01:16:58,240 --> 01:16:58,580
part

3887
01:16:58,580 --> 01:16:58,840
about

3888
01:16:58,840 --> 01:16:59,360
this

3889
01:16:59,360 --> 01:16:59,740
gentleman

3890
01:16:59,740 --> 01:17:00,320
is

3891
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:00,480
he

3892
01:17:00,480 --> 01:17:00,620
had

3893
01:17:00,620 --> 01:17:01,120
survival

3894
01:17:01,120 --> 01:17:01,620
training

3895
01:17:01,620 --> 01:17:02,180
in

3896
01:17:02,180 --> 01:17:02,320
the

3897
01:17:02,320 --> 01:17:02,740
military

3898
01:17:02,740 --> 01:17:04,200
and so

3899
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:04,480
he

3900
01:17:04,480 --> 01:17:04,740
knew

3901
01:17:04,740 --> 01:17:05,120
how to

3902
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:06,020
live out

3903
01:17:06,020 --> 01:17:06,180
here

3904
01:17:06,180 --> 01:17:06,420
in the

3905
01:17:06,420 --> 01:17:06,740
wilderness

3906
01:17:06,740 --> 01:17:08,200
to think

3907
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:08,660
that he

3908
01:17:08,660 --> 01:17:09,140
got out

3909
01:17:09,140 --> 01:17:09,360
here

3910
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:09,820
and he

3911
01:17:09,820 --> 01:17:10,520
got lost

3912
01:17:10,520 --> 01:17:11,680
kind of

3913
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:12,020
difficult

3914
01:17:12,020 --> 01:17:12,860
to understand

3915
01:17:12,860 --> 01:17:16,980
my name

3916
01:17:16,980 --> 01:17:17,240
is Jerry

3917
01:17:17,240 --> 01:17:17,680
Colson

3918
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:18,300
I'm

3919
01:17:18,300 --> 01:17:18,440
the

3920
01:17:18,440 --> 01:17:18,800
retired

3921
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:19,140
sheriff

3922
01:17:19,140 --> 01:17:19,340
of

3923
01:17:19,340 --> 01:17:19,600
Carvin

3924
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:19,980
County

3925
01:17:19,980 --> 01:17:20,660
Wyoming

3926
01:17:20,660 --> 01:17:21,860
and in

3927
01:17:21,860 --> 01:17:22,540
2006

3928
01:17:22,540 --> 01:17:23,160
when

3929
01:17:23,160 --> 01:17:23,560
Charles

3930
01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:24,160
Gustafson

3931
01:17:24,160 --> 01:17:24,800
was here

3932
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:25,940
elk hunting

3933
01:17:25,940 --> 01:17:26,920
in October

3934
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:27,240
of that

3935
01:17:27,240 --> 01:17:27,440
year

3936
01:17:27,440 --> 01:17:27,800
he went

3937
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:28,120
missing

3938
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:28,380
and I

3939
01:17:28,380 --> 01:17:28,660
was a

3940
01:17:28,660 --> 01:17:28,900
sheriff

3941
01:17:28,900 --> 01:17:29,400
at that

3942
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:29,700
time

3943
01:17:29,700 --> 01:17:30,680
so in

3944
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:30,800
the

3945
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:31,160
articles

3946
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:31,540
it said

3947
01:17:31,540 --> 01:17:32,180
that he

3948
01:17:32,180 --> 01:17:32,340
was

3949
01:17:32,340 --> 01:17:32,700
camped

3950
01:17:32,700 --> 01:17:32,880
with

3951
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:33,040
I

3952
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:33,180
think

3953
01:17:33,180 --> 01:17:33,340
a

3954
01:17:33,340 --> 01:17:33,640
nephew

3955
01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:34,020
and

3956
01:17:34,020 --> 01:17:34,200
some

3957
01:17:34,200 --> 01:17:34,420
other

3958
01:17:34,420 --> 01:17:34,900
relatives

3959
01:17:34,900 --> 01:17:35,560
near

3960
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:36,000
forest

3961
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:36,200
road

3962
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:36,840
111

3963
01:17:36,840 --> 01:17:36,980
and

3964
01:17:36,980 --> 01:17:37,760
129

3965
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:38,100
does that

3966
01:17:38,100 --> 01:17:38,540
kind of

3967
01:17:38,540 --> 01:17:38,740
ring

3968
01:17:38,740 --> 01:17:39,040
right

3969
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:39,740
correct

3970
01:17:39,740 --> 01:17:40,520
I'd also

3971
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:40,900
heard that

3972
01:17:40,900 --> 01:17:41,160
he had

3973
01:17:41,160 --> 01:17:41,460
been to

3974
01:17:41,460 --> 01:17:41,840
this area

3975
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:42,460
many times

3976
01:17:42,460 --> 01:17:42,660
in the

3977
01:17:42,660 --> 01:17:43,040
past

3978
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:43,580
yeah

3979
01:17:43,580 --> 01:17:43,800
according

3980
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:44,160
to family

3981
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:44,480
members

3982
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:45,320
they hunt

3983
01:17:45,320 --> 01:17:45,680
this area

3984
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:46,380
pretty regular

3985
01:17:46,380 --> 01:17:47,360
and what

3986
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:47,640
kind of

3987
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:48,080
resources

3988
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:48,640
would you

3989
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:49,020
pull for

3990
01:17:49,020 --> 01:17:49,300
something

3991
01:17:49,300 --> 01:17:49,880
like this

3992
01:17:49,880 --> 01:17:51,060
four-wheel drive

3993
01:17:51,060 --> 01:17:51,960
and

3994
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:52,780
searchers on

3995
01:17:52,780 --> 01:17:53,080
foot

3996
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:53,660
requested a

3997
01:17:53,660 --> 01:17:54,100
helicopter

3998
01:17:54,100 --> 01:17:54,460
out of

3999
01:17:54,460 --> 01:17:54,620
war

4000
01:17:54,620 --> 01:17:54,720
in

4001
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:54,960
air

4002
01:17:54,960 --> 01:17:55,240
force

4003
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:55,500
base

4004
01:17:55,500 --> 01:17:55,660
in

4005
01:17:55,660 --> 01:17:56,000
Cheyenne

4006
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:56,460
military

4007
01:17:56,460 --> 01:17:57,080
helicopter

4008
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:58,340
we would

4009
01:17:58,340 --> 01:17:58,500
use

4010
01:17:58,500 --> 01:17:58,900
civil air

4011
01:17:58,900 --> 01:17:59,260
patrol

4012
01:17:59,260 --> 01:18:00,000
so we

4013
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:00,160
go

4014
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:00,880
air

4015
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:01,320
search

4016
01:18:01,320 --> 01:18:02,080
and

4017
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:02,620
eventually

4018
01:18:02,620 --> 01:18:03,040
we had

4019
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:04,300
searchers

4020
01:18:04,300 --> 01:18:04,420
on

4021
01:18:04,420 --> 01:18:04,880
horseback

4022
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:05,160
too

4023
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:05,980
brought

4024
01:18:05,980 --> 01:18:06,120
in

4025
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:06,300
some

4026
01:18:06,300 --> 01:18:07,000
canines

4027
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:08,780
both

4028
01:18:08,780 --> 01:18:09,220
cadaver

4029
01:18:09,220 --> 01:18:09,700
and search

4030
01:18:09,700 --> 01:18:10,120
dogs

4031
01:18:10,120 --> 01:18:10,700
as the

4032
01:18:10,700 --> 01:18:10,860
time

4033
01:18:10,860 --> 01:18:11,180
went on

4034
01:18:11,180 --> 01:18:11,380
we went

4035
01:18:11,380 --> 01:18:11,500
with

4036
01:18:11,500 --> 01:18:11,920
cadaver

4037
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:12,480
did

4038
01:18:12,480 --> 01:18:12,900
any

4039
01:18:12,900 --> 01:18:13,360
dog

4040
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:13,700
pick up

4041
01:18:13,700 --> 01:18:14,040
a scent

4042
01:18:14,040 --> 01:18:14,420
trail

4043
01:18:14,420 --> 01:18:15,360
no

4044
01:18:15,360 --> 01:18:15,880
nothing

4045
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:16,300
that

4046
01:18:16,300 --> 01:18:17,100
led to

4047
01:18:17,100 --> 01:18:17,760
Mr. Augustus

4048
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:18,480
he searched

4049
01:18:18,480 --> 01:18:19,040
for what

4050
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:19,480
a week

4051
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:20,680
about six

4052
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:20,920
days

4053
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:21,340
I had to

4054
01:18:21,340 --> 01:18:21,600
call it

4055
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:21,980
off on about

4056
01:18:21,980 --> 01:18:22,360
the sixth

4057
01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:22,880
day because

4058
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:23,080
of the

4059
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:23,240
weather

4060
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:23,700
coming in

4061
01:18:23,700 --> 01:18:23,820
the

4062
01:18:23,820 --> 01:18:24,240
helicopters

4063
01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:24,660
were there

4064
01:18:24,660 --> 01:18:24,960
until it

4065
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:25,160
started

4066
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:25,580
snowing

4067
01:18:25,580 --> 01:18:25,760
and they

4068
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:25,960
had to

4069
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:26,120
go

4070
01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:26,640
the

4071
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:27,140
unusual

4072
01:18:27,140 --> 01:18:27,520
nature

4073
01:18:27,520 --> 01:18:27,960
of being

4074
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:28,360
lost

4075
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:28,660
in the

4076
01:18:28,660 --> 01:18:28,840
woods

4077
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:29,280
and not

4078
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:29,580
found

4079
01:18:29,580 --> 01:18:30,280
is that

4080
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:30,660
unusual

4081
01:18:30,660 --> 01:18:31,900
it's

4082
01:18:31,900 --> 01:18:32,060
not

4083
01:18:32,060 --> 01:18:32,360
unusual

4084
01:18:32,360 --> 01:18:32,800
for people

4085
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:33,020
to come

4086
01:18:33,020 --> 01:18:33,280
lost

4087
01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:33,520
in the

4088
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:33,820
woods

4089
01:18:33,820 --> 01:18:34,620
it is

4090
01:18:34,620 --> 01:18:35,080
unusual

4091
01:18:35,080 --> 01:18:35,980
and not

4092
01:18:35,980 --> 01:18:36,560
commonplace

4093
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:37,160
for us

4094
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:37,460
not to

4095
01:18:37,460 --> 01:18:37,740
find them

4096
01:18:37,740 --> 01:18:38,060
within a

4097
01:18:38,060 --> 01:18:38,320
day or

4098
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:38,520
two

4099
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:39,460
people

4100
01:18:39,460 --> 01:18:39,920
who watch

4101
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:40,300
this

4102
01:18:40,300 --> 01:18:41,080
will say

4103
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:41,500
oh you

4104
01:18:41,500 --> 01:18:41,740
know

4105
01:18:41,740 --> 01:18:42,500
maybe this

4106
01:18:42,500 --> 01:18:42,840
was a

4107
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:43,260
case of

4108
01:18:43,260 --> 01:18:43,620
animal

4109
01:18:43,620 --> 01:18:44,260
predation

4110
01:18:44,260 --> 01:18:45,720
what would

4111
01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:45,920
you say

4112
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:46,220
to that

4113
01:18:46,220 --> 01:18:46,660
I mean

4114
01:18:46,660 --> 01:18:47,000
we have

4115
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:47,540
bears

4116
01:18:47,540 --> 01:18:48,260
I can

4117
01:18:48,260 --> 01:18:48,620
tell you

4118
01:18:48,620 --> 01:18:48,960
the whole

4119
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:49,260
time I

4120
01:18:49,260 --> 01:18:49,740
was sheriff

4121
01:18:49,740 --> 01:18:50,200
and I

4122
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:50,500
worked at

4123
01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:50,800
sheriff's

4124
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:50,960
office

4125
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:51,900
for 39

4126
01:18:51,900 --> 01:18:52,320
years

4127
01:18:52,320 --> 01:18:52,980
I never

4128
01:18:52,980 --> 01:18:53,340
remember

4129
01:18:53,340 --> 01:18:53,740
anybody

4130
01:18:53,740 --> 01:18:53,960
being

4131
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:54,260
attacked

4132
01:18:54,260 --> 01:18:54,600
by a

4133
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:54,820
bear

4134
01:18:54,820 --> 01:18:56,120
how long

4135
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:56,580
was it

4136
01:18:56,580 --> 01:18:56,980
before

4137
01:18:56,980 --> 01:18:57,560
anybody

4138
01:18:57,560 --> 01:18:57,940
found

4139
01:18:57,940 --> 01:18:58,480
anything

4140
01:18:58,480 --> 01:18:59,280
related

4141
01:18:59,280 --> 01:18:59,680
to him

4142
01:18:59,680 --> 01:19:00,020
there

4143
01:19:00,020 --> 01:19:00,280
were some

4144
01:19:00,280 --> 01:19:00,580
fishermen

4145
01:19:00,580 --> 01:19:01,040
down there

4146
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:02,200
in Rock

4147
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:02,440
Creek

4148
01:19:02,440 --> 01:19:02,800
Canyon

4149
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:04,000
and they

4150
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:04,240
were just

4151
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:04,560
walking

4152
01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:04,960
along

4153
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:05,500
and all

4154
01:19:05,500 --> 01:19:05,720
of a sudden

4155
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:05,960
you look

4156
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:06,320
over there

4157
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:06,620
and here's

4158
01:19:06,620 --> 01:19:07,420
this rifle

4159
01:19:07,420 --> 01:19:07,840
sitting in

4160
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:08,140
the fork

4161
01:19:08,140 --> 01:19:08,620
of a tree

4162
01:19:08,620 --> 01:19:09,680
leaning in

4163
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:09,980
the fork

4164
01:19:09,980 --> 01:19:10,320
of a tree

4165
01:19:10,320 --> 01:19:10,640
right by

4166
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:11,020
the creek

4167
01:19:11,020 --> 01:19:12,140
so they

4168
01:19:12,140 --> 01:19:12,460
picked it

4169
01:19:12,460 --> 01:19:12,700
up and

4170
01:19:12,700 --> 01:19:12,960
brought it

4171
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:13,200
out

4172
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:13,580
and turned

4173
01:19:13,580 --> 01:19:13,840
it over

4174
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:14,100
and we

4175
01:19:14,100 --> 01:19:14,460
got it

4176
01:19:14,460 --> 01:19:15,200
and confirmed

4177
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:15,500
to the

4178
01:19:15,500 --> 01:19:15,820
family it

4179
01:19:15,820 --> 01:19:16,060
was his

4180
01:19:16,060 --> 01:19:16,380
rifle

4181
01:19:16,380 --> 01:19:17,540
was anything

4182
01:19:17,540 --> 01:19:18,100
else found

4183
01:19:18,100 --> 01:19:18,380
in that

4184
01:19:18,380 --> 01:19:18,700
immediate

4185
01:19:18,700 --> 01:19:19,100
area

4186
01:19:19,100 --> 01:19:20,120
myself and

4187
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:20,400
some other

4188
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:20,700
searches

4189
01:19:20,700 --> 01:19:21,020
we went

4190
01:19:21,020 --> 01:19:21,260
down to

4191
01:19:21,260 --> 01:19:22,160
that area

4192
01:19:22,160 --> 01:19:23,060
where everything

4193
01:19:23,060 --> 01:19:23,680
was found

4194
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:24,860
I actually

4195
01:19:24,860 --> 01:19:25,500
sat down

4196
01:19:25,500 --> 01:19:26,400
on the

4197
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:27,380
side of the

4198
01:19:27,380 --> 01:19:27,540
hill

4199
01:19:27,540 --> 01:19:27,880
there by

4200
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:28,280
the creek

4201
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:29,060
and I

4202
01:19:29,060 --> 01:19:29,360
looked over

4203
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:29,560
and about

4204
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:29,940
ten foot

4205
01:19:29,940 --> 01:19:30,380
from me

4206
01:19:30,380 --> 01:19:30,900
here's this

4207
01:19:30,900 --> 01:19:31,560
fanny pack

4208
01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:32,500
it had a

4209
01:19:32,500 --> 01:19:32,980
water bottle

4210
01:19:32,980 --> 01:19:33,240
and I

4211
01:19:33,240 --> 01:19:33,680
remember that

4212
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:34,180
so it

4213
01:19:34,180 --> 01:19:34,460
turned out

4214
01:19:34,460 --> 01:19:34,640
to be

4215
01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:35,000
Charlie's

4216
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:35,600
fanny pack

4217
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:36,880
so was

4218
01:19:36,880 --> 01:19:37,340
any of his

4219
01:19:37,340 --> 01:19:37,920
clothing or

4220
01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:38,540
shoes or

4221
01:19:38,540 --> 01:19:38,940
any of that

4222
01:19:38,940 --> 01:19:39,220
found

4223
01:19:39,220 --> 01:19:39,680
there was

4224
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:39,920
nothing

4225
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:40,480
other than

4226
01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:40,600
these

4227
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:40,840
fannies

4228
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:41,220
packed and

4229
01:19:41,220 --> 01:19:41,420
rifle

4230
01:19:41,420 --> 01:19:41,660
that's

4231
01:19:41,660 --> 01:19:41,920
all that's

4232
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:42,380
been found

4233
01:19:42,380 --> 01:19:45,560
so we

4234
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:46,020
have

4235
01:19:46,020 --> 01:19:47,240
Charles's

4236
01:19:47,240 --> 01:19:47,880
disappearance

4237
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:50,000
in northern

4238
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:50,760
medicine bow

4239
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:52,000
you have

4240
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:52,380
the strip

4241
01:19:52,380 --> 01:19:52,580
mater

4242
01:19:52,580 --> 01:19:53,320
disappearance

4243
01:19:53,320 --> 01:19:54,900
just

4244
01:19:54,900 --> 01:19:55,640
southwest

4245
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:56,480
of where

4246
01:19:56,480 --> 01:19:56,780
Charles

4247
01:19:56,780 --> 01:19:57,300
disappeared

4248
01:19:57,300 --> 01:19:59,120
you also

4249
01:19:59,120 --> 01:19:59,520
have the

4250
01:19:59,520 --> 01:19:59,820
Higdon

4251
01:19:59,820 --> 01:20:00,400
disappearance

4252
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:02,360
on the

4253
01:20:02,360 --> 01:20:03,160
northwest

4254
01:20:03,160 --> 01:20:04,220
sector of

4255
01:20:04,220 --> 01:20:04,620
Cheyenne

4256
01:20:04,620 --> 01:20:05,120
is Warren

4257
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:05,560
Air Force

4258
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:05,880
Base

4259
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:07,280
and this

4260
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:07,580
is the

4261
01:20:07,580 --> 01:20:08,000
location

4262
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:08,800
that did

4263
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:09,240
the air

4264
01:20:09,240 --> 01:20:09,680
support

4265
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:10,900
on the

4266
01:20:10,900 --> 01:20:11,620
disappearances

4267
01:20:11,620 --> 01:20:12,260
we marked

4268
01:20:12,260 --> 01:20:12,580
here

4269
01:20:12,580 --> 01:20:14,160
surprisingly

4270
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:15,260
I found

4271
01:20:15,260 --> 01:20:16,100
some documents

4272
01:20:16,100 --> 01:20:18,380
about UFOs

4273
01:20:18,380 --> 01:20:20,180
being observed

4274
01:20:20,180 --> 01:20:21,800
by on-duty

4275
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:22,400
Air Force

4276
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:23,020
personnel

4277
01:20:23,020 --> 01:20:24,440
at Warren

4278
01:20:24,440 --> 01:20:29,500
all three

4279
01:20:29,500 --> 01:20:30,120
men of

4280
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:30,400
German

4281
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:31,000
heritage

4282
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,020
all three

4283
01:20:32,020 --> 01:20:32,380
men

4284
01:20:32,380 --> 01:20:33,140
elk hunters

4285
01:20:33,140 --> 01:20:34,420
I had

4286
01:20:34,420 --> 01:20:34,760
to ask

4287
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:35,280
myself

4288
01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:36,340
are there

4289
01:20:36,340 --> 01:20:36,800
other

4290
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:37,280
hunters

4291
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:38,400
missing

4292
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:39,040
from this

4293
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:39,420
region

4294
01:20:39,420 --> 01:20:40,360
that match

4295
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:41,180
that profile

4296
01:20:41,180 --> 01:20:42,460
there any

4297
01:20:42,460 --> 01:20:43,440
hunters that

4298
01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:44,340
have gone

4299
01:20:44,340 --> 01:20:44,800
missing in

4300
01:20:44,800 --> 01:20:45,380
recent times

4301
01:20:45,380 --> 01:20:45,680
that kind

4302
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:46,080
of match

4303
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:46,640
the profile

4304
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:46,940
of these

4305
01:20:46,940 --> 01:20:47,600
other guys

4306
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:49,260
yeah a

4307
01:20:49,260 --> 01:20:49,700
guy named

4308
01:20:49,700 --> 01:20:50,080
Terry

4309
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:50,520
Medder

4310
01:20:50,520 --> 01:20:51,540
who was a

4311
01:20:51,540 --> 01:20:51,980
teacher here

4312
01:20:51,980 --> 01:20:52,300
in Rock

4313
01:20:52,300 --> 01:20:52,600
Springs

4314
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:53,000
I actually

4315
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:53,540
knew him

4316
01:20:53,540 --> 01:20:54,520
and he was

4317
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:54,860
a teacher

4318
01:20:54,860 --> 01:20:55,400
when I was

4319
01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:55,860
in high

4320
01:20:55,860 --> 01:20:56,140
school

4321
01:20:56,140 --> 01:20:57,240
and he

4322
01:20:57,240 --> 01:20:57,660
came up

4323
01:20:57,660 --> 01:20:57,980
missing

4324
01:20:57,980 --> 01:20:58,400
when he'd

4325
01:20:58,400 --> 01:20:58,780
gone out

4326
01:20:58,780 --> 01:20:59,140
to go

4327
01:20:59,140 --> 01:20:59,440
hunting

4328
01:20:59,440 --> 01:21:01,260
and the

4329
01:21:01,260 --> 01:21:01,860
area that

4330
01:21:01,860 --> 01:21:02,200
he was

4331
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:02,520
in can

4332
01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:02,820
you kind

4333
01:21:02,820 --> 01:21:03,240
of explain

4334
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:03,700
it to us

4335
01:21:03,700 --> 01:21:04,940
well it's

4336
01:21:04,940 --> 01:21:05,480
very typical

4337
01:21:05,480 --> 01:21:06,120
of southwest

4338
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:06,740
Wyoming

4339
01:21:06,740 --> 01:21:07,680
it's a

4340
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:08,440
sagebrush

4341
01:21:08,440 --> 01:21:09,180
prairie

4342
01:21:09,180 --> 01:21:10,560
it's what we

4343
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:11,160
call high

4344
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:11,640
desert

4345
01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:13,000
isolated

4346
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:14,480
not a lot

4347
01:21:14,480 --> 01:21:14,980
of cover

4348
01:21:14,980 --> 01:21:15,400
no

4349
01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:16,680
so where

4350
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:17,100
could he

4351
01:21:17,100 --> 01:21:17,440
go

4352
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:18,360
he'd have

4353
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:18,660
to crawl

4354
01:21:18,660 --> 01:21:19,040
into a

4355
01:21:19,040 --> 01:21:19,340
hole

4356
01:21:19,340 --> 01:21:20,140
and there

4357
01:21:20,140 --> 01:21:20,300
are not

4358
01:21:20,300 --> 01:21:20,520
a lot

4359
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:20,840
of holes

4360
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:21,060
there

4361
01:21:21,060 --> 01:21:21,400
no

4362
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:22,040
not a

4363
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:22,140
lot

4364
01:21:22,140 --> 01:21:22,640
of caves

4365
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:23,400
I mean

4366
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:23,820
it's open

4367
01:21:23,820 --> 01:21:24,240
desert

4368
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:25,180
anything

4369
01:21:25,180 --> 01:21:25,820
out there

4370
01:21:25,820 --> 01:21:26,040
in the

4371
01:21:26,040 --> 01:21:26,220
middle

4372
01:21:26,220 --> 01:21:26,480
of the

4373
01:21:26,480 --> 01:21:26,740
desert

4374
01:21:26,740 --> 01:21:26,940
that

4375
01:21:26,940 --> 01:21:27,080
could

4376
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:27,240
hurt

4377
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:27,380
him

4378
01:21:27,380 --> 01:21:28,200
on

4379
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:28,560
occasion

4380
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:29,020
we've

4381
01:21:29,020 --> 01:21:29,300
had

4382
01:21:29,300 --> 01:21:29,720
a wolf

4383
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:30,240
or two

4384
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:32,000
I can't

4385
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:32,300
think of

4386
01:21:32,300 --> 01:21:32,880
any large

4387
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:33,580
predatory

4388
01:21:33,580 --> 01:21:34,280
animals

4389
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:34,740
that would

4390
01:21:34,740 --> 01:21:35,100
be able

4391
01:21:35,100 --> 01:21:35,400
to

4392
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:36,000
you know

4393
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:36,660
take a

4394
01:21:36,660 --> 01:21:37,320
human being

4395
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:37,900
and drag

4396
01:21:37,900 --> 01:21:38,240
him off

4397
01:21:38,240 --> 01:21:38,660
somewhere

4398
01:21:38,660 --> 01:21:39,120
what would

4399
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:39,640
be your

4400
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:39,900
thinking

4401
01:21:39,900 --> 01:21:40,300
on that

4402
01:21:40,300 --> 01:21:41,140
I suppose

4403
01:21:41,140 --> 01:21:41,420
we could

4404
01:21:41,420 --> 01:21:41,600
say

4405
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:41,980
that there's

4406
01:21:41,980 --> 01:21:42,720
a possibility

4407
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:43,260
he was

4408
01:21:43,260 --> 01:21:43,880
abducted

4409
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:45,540
but there's

4410
01:21:45,540 --> 01:21:46,040
no evidence

4411
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:46,420
of that

4412
01:21:46,420 --> 01:21:47,160
all we know

4413
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:47,440
is that

4414
01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:47,720
he was

4415
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:48,020
there

4416
01:21:48,020 --> 01:21:48,840
and then

4417
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:49,200
he's not

4418
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:49,420
there

4419
01:21:49,420 --> 01:21:49,860
anymore

4420
01:21:49,860 --> 01:21:50,300
this

4421
01:21:50,300 --> 01:21:50,620
is in

4422
01:21:50,620 --> 01:21:50,980
the middle

4423
01:21:50,980 --> 01:21:51,840
of nowhere

4424
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:52,300
desert

4425
01:21:52,300 --> 01:21:53,520
and his

4426
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:53,760
truck

4427
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:54,060
was

4428
01:21:54,060 --> 01:21:54,800
stuck

4429
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:55,140
in a

4430
01:21:55,140 --> 01:21:55,420
ditch

4431
01:21:55,420 --> 01:21:56,740
and they

4432
01:21:56,740 --> 01:21:56,980
searched

4433
01:21:56,980 --> 01:21:57,380
for a

4434
01:21:57,380 --> 01:21:57,600
week

4435
01:21:57,600 --> 01:21:57,820
and they

4436
01:21:57,820 --> 01:21:58,020
never

4437
01:21:58,020 --> 01:21:58,780
found him

4438
01:21:58,780 --> 01:22:00,300
do you

4439
01:22:00,300 --> 01:22:01,040
see any

4440
01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:02,140
any

4441
01:22:02,140 --> 01:22:03,200
convening

4442
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:03,560
of the

4443
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:04,040
facts

4444
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:05,320
any

4445
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:06,300
assimilation

4446
01:22:06,300 --> 01:22:06,660
that you

4447
01:22:06,660 --> 01:22:07,100
could make

4448
01:22:07,100 --> 01:22:07,440
between

4449
01:22:07,440 --> 01:22:08,080
all of

4450
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:08,240
these

4451
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:08,620
guys

4452
01:22:08,620 --> 01:22:09,260
one of

4453
01:22:09,260 --> 01:22:09,440
the big

4454
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:09,860
similarities

4455
01:22:09,860 --> 01:22:10,320
of course

4456
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:10,600
is that

4457
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:10,760
they're

4458
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:11,020
all

4459
01:22:11,020 --> 01:22:11,560
by

4460
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:12,100
themselves

4461
01:22:12,100 --> 01:22:12,880
and

4462
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:13,040
they're

4463
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:13,620
all elk

4464
01:22:13,620 --> 01:22:14,120
hunting

4465
01:22:14,120 --> 01:22:14,940
with the

4466
01:22:14,940 --> 01:22:15,340
exception

4467
01:22:15,340 --> 01:22:15,760
of Mr.

4468
01:22:15,760 --> 01:22:16,060
Metter

4469
01:22:16,060 --> 01:22:16,440
they're all

4470
01:22:16,440 --> 01:22:16,660
about

4471
01:22:16,660 --> 01:22:17,120
the same

4472
01:22:17,120 --> 01:22:17,520
age

4473
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:18,180
in

4474
01:22:18,180 --> 01:22:18,380
your

4475
01:22:18,380 --> 01:22:18,940
time

4476
01:22:18,940 --> 01:22:19,780
as

4477
01:22:19,780 --> 01:22:20,920
monitoring

4478
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:21,340
MUFON

4479
01:22:21,340 --> 01:22:21,720
activity

4480
01:22:21,720 --> 01:22:22,160
in Wyoming

4481
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:22,980
have you

4482
01:22:22,980 --> 01:22:23,420
ever heard

4483
01:22:23,420 --> 01:22:23,860
of anything

4484
01:22:23,860 --> 01:22:24,480
similar

4485
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:25,080
to this

4486
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:25,580
were the

4487
01:22:25,580 --> 01:22:26,220
cases involving

4488
01:22:26,220 --> 01:22:27,140
Pat McGuire

4489
01:22:27,140 --> 01:22:28,140
who owned

4490
01:22:28,140 --> 01:22:28,780
a ranch

4491
01:22:28,780 --> 01:22:29,920
over in

4492
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:30,440
the eastern

4493
01:22:30,440 --> 01:22:31,260
part of

4494
01:22:31,260 --> 01:22:32,040
Wyoming

4495
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:33,700
and he

4496
01:22:33,700 --> 01:22:34,080
had a

4497
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:35,040
series of

4498
01:22:35,040 --> 01:22:35,840
incidents

4499
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:36,240
I guess

4500
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:36,560
you could

4501
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:37,100
say

4502
01:22:37,100 --> 01:22:37,740
involving

4503
01:22:37,740 --> 01:22:38,560
UFOs

4504
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:39,220
and I

4505
01:22:39,220 --> 01:22:39,880
was fortunate

4506
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:40,600
enough to be

4507
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:41,200
able to sit

4508
01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:41,860
in on one

4509
01:22:41,860 --> 01:22:42,060
of the

4510
01:22:42,060 --> 01:22:42,420
regressive

4511
01:22:42,420 --> 01:22:43,100
hypnosis

4512
01:22:43,100 --> 01:22:43,700
sessions

4513
01:22:43,700 --> 01:22:45,120
and he

4514
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:45,660
had

4515
01:22:45,660 --> 01:22:46,620
some

4516
01:22:46,620 --> 01:22:47,240
experiences

4517
01:22:47,240 --> 01:22:48,760
and he

4518
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:49,440
was allegedly

4519
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:50,480
told by a

4520
01:22:50,480 --> 01:22:51,000
race of

4521
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:52,020
alien beings

4522
01:22:52,020 --> 01:22:53,260
that he

4523
01:22:53,260 --> 01:22:53,760
was to

4524
01:22:53,760 --> 01:22:54,320
build a

4525
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:54,660
well

4526
01:22:54,660 --> 01:22:55,520
to dig

4527
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:55,960
a well

4528
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:56,460
on this

4529
01:22:56,460 --> 01:22:57,120
location

4530
01:22:57,120 --> 01:22:57,700
in

4531
01:22:57,700 --> 01:22:58,920
or near

4532
01:22:58,920 --> 01:22:59,420
Wheatland

4533
01:22:59,420 --> 01:22:59,900
Wyoming

4534
01:22:59,900 --> 01:23:01,040
he took

4535
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:01,520
that very

4536
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:01,980
seriously

4537
01:23:01,980 --> 01:23:02,660
he actually

4538
01:23:02,660 --> 01:23:03,200
went out

4539
01:23:03,200 --> 01:23:03,660
and bought

4540
01:23:03,660 --> 01:23:04,080
himself

4541
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:04,860
a tank

4542
01:23:04,860 --> 01:23:05,800
and he

4543
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:06,100
got the

4544
01:23:06,100 --> 01:23:06,580
motor off

4545
01:23:06,580 --> 01:23:06,900
it to

4546
01:23:06,900 --> 01:23:07,200
pump

4547
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:08,180
the water

4548
01:23:08,180 --> 01:23:08,500
out of

4549
01:23:08,500 --> 01:23:09,000
this well

4550
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:09,780
but he

4551
01:23:09,780 --> 01:23:10,580
had geologists

4552
01:23:10,580 --> 01:23:11,040
and all

4553
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:11,380
these other

4554
01:23:11,380 --> 01:23:11,820
folks tell

4555
01:23:11,820 --> 01:23:12,180
him that he

4556
01:23:12,180 --> 01:23:12,780
was crazy

4557
01:23:12,780 --> 01:23:13,300
for wanting

4558
01:23:13,300 --> 01:23:13,720
to put

4559
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:14,320
the well

4560
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:14,660
where he

4561
01:23:14,660 --> 01:23:15,080
wanted to

4562
01:23:15,080 --> 01:23:15,380
put it

4563
01:23:15,380 --> 01:23:15,820
because it

4564
01:23:15,820 --> 01:23:16,120
was just

4565
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:16,600
a solid

4566
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:17,180
slab

4567
01:23:17,180 --> 01:23:17,860
of rock

4568
01:23:17,860 --> 01:23:18,600
and there

4569
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:19,040
was no way

4570
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:19,540
he was ever

4571
01:23:19,540 --> 01:23:19,960
going to get

4572
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:20,420
any water

4573
01:23:20,420 --> 01:23:20,780
but he

4574
01:23:20,780 --> 01:23:21,240
insisted

4575
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:21,960
that the

4576
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:22,780
aliens

4577
01:23:22,780 --> 01:23:23,260
had told

4578
01:23:23,260 --> 01:23:23,520
him

4579
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:23,840
that there

4580
01:23:23,840 --> 01:23:24,320
was water

4581
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:24,540
there

4582
01:23:24,540 --> 01:23:24,840
and by

4583
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:25,060
God

4584
01:23:25,060 --> 01:23:25,320
he was

4585
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:25,580
going to

4586
01:23:25,580 --> 01:23:25,760
dig

4587
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:26,280
that well

4588
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:26,820
and he

4589
01:23:26,820 --> 01:23:27,120
did

4590
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:27,640
boy

4591
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:29,040
and you

4592
01:23:29,040 --> 01:23:29,420
just said

4593
01:23:29,420 --> 01:23:29,680
something

4594
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:30,080
that is

4595
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:30,600
huge

4596
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:31,020
to me

4597
01:23:31,020 --> 01:23:32,680
so in

4598
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:33,060
the United

4599
01:23:33,060 --> 01:23:33,480
States

4600
01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:33,840
we have

4601
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:34,500
64

4602
01:23:34,500 --> 01:23:35,360
geographical

4603
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:35,960
clusters

4604
01:23:35,960 --> 01:23:36,460
of missing

4605
01:23:36,460 --> 01:23:36,900
people

4606
01:23:36,900 --> 01:23:37,380
that fit

4607
01:23:37,380 --> 01:23:37,940
our profile

4608
01:23:37,940 --> 01:23:38,400
points

4609
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:39,880
as unusual

4610
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:40,420
as it

4611
01:23:40,420 --> 01:23:40,860
sounds

4612
01:23:40,860 --> 01:23:41,860
right down

4613
01:23:41,860 --> 01:23:42,240
the middle

4614
01:23:42,240 --> 01:23:42,840
of the United

4615
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:43,420
States

4616
01:23:43,420 --> 01:23:44,420
there's an

4617
01:23:44,420 --> 01:23:45,200
area where

4618
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:45,700
there are

4619
01:23:45,700 --> 01:23:45,920
no

4620
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:46,720
disappearances

4621
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:48,480
several months

4622
01:23:48,480 --> 01:23:48,820
ago

4623
01:23:48,820 --> 01:23:49,840
I got an

4624
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:50,400
email from

4625
01:23:50,400 --> 01:23:50,820
somebody who

4626
01:23:50,820 --> 01:23:51,140
worked for

4627
01:23:51,140 --> 01:23:52,060
the government

4628
01:23:52,060 --> 01:23:54,340
and he said

4629
01:23:54,340 --> 01:23:54,700
Dave

4630
01:23:54,700 --> 01:23:56,000
that area

4631
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:56,820
of the U.S.

4632
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:57,920
corresponds

4633
01:23:57,920 --> 01:24:00,820
to an area

4634
01:24:00,820 --> 01:24:01,960
which has been

4635
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:02,520
described by

4636
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:03,020
the U.S.

4637
01:24:03,100 --> 01:24:04,080
geological survey

4638
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:06,320
as an underground

4639
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:07,580
water area

4640
01:24:07,580 --> 01:24:09,000
it's called

4641
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:09,760
the Ogallala

4642
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:10,520
aquifer

4643
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:11,900
and he says

4644
01:24:11,900 --> 01:24:12,720
you should see

4645
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:13,860
if it corresponds

4646
01:24:13,860 --> 01:24:15,240
with your profile

4647
01:24:15,240 --> 01:24:15,540
map

4648
01:24:15,540 --> 01:24:17,860
well what we did

4649
01:24:17,860 --> 01:24:19,540
is we overlaid

4650
01:24:19,540 --> 01:24:21,040
that on top

4651
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:21,680
of our cluster

4652
01:24:21,680 --> 01:24:22,020
map

4653
01:24:22,020 --> 01:24:23,820
it's almost

4654
01:24:23,820 --> 01:24:24,520
a near match

4655
01:24:24,520 --> 01:24:26,220
which is

4656
01:24:26,220 --> 01:24:26,660
interesting

4657
01:24:26,660 --> 01:24:28,560
because of my

4658
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:29,000
background

4659
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:30,080
with MUFON

4660
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,000
and UFOs

4661
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:33,200
I also know

4662
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:33,660
about

4663
01:24:33,660 --> 01:24:35,100
underwater

4664
01:24:35,100 --> 01:24:36,080
submerged

4665
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:36,740
objects

4666
01:24:36,740 --> 01:24:39,500
and those

4667
01:24:39,500 --> 01:24:40,240
are essentially

4668
01:24:40,240 --> 01:24:41,160
just UFOs

4669
01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:41,500
that have gone

4670
01:24:41,500 --> 01:24:41,940
to water

4671
01:24:41,940 --> 01:24:44,360
and if there

4672
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:45,560
was a way

4673
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:47,140
to

4674
01:24:47,140 --> 01:24:49,000
keep yourself

4675
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:49,420
hidden

4676
01:24:49,420 --> 01:24:51,000
yet

4677
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:52,340
make yourself

4678
01:24:52,340 --> 01:24:52,960
apparent

4679
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:54,040
at certain times

4680
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:54,840
it would be

4681
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:55,620
by using

4682
01:24:55,620 --> 01:24:56,420
the aquifer

4683
01:24:56,420 --> 01:24:57,480
and going

4684
01:24:57,480 --> 01:24:58,000
out through

4685
01:24:58,000 --> 01:24:58,460
Wyoming

4686
01:24:58,460 --> 01:25:00,200
and when you

4687
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:00,640
think about

4688
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:01,180
the McGuire

4689
01:25:01,180 --> 01:25:01,620
incident

4690
01:25:01,620 --> 01:25:03,940
and the ability

4691
01:25:03,940 --> 01:25:04,760
of the UFOs

4692
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:05,180
to go through

4693
01:25:05,180 --> 01:25:05,820
the aquifer

4694
01:25:05,820 --> 01:25:06,540
and up out

4695
01:25:06,540 --> 01:25:07,080
of his well

4696
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:07,700
if they wanted

4697
01:25:07,700 --> 01:25:09,320
and then

4698
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:10,060
their proximity

4699
01:25:10,060 --> 01:25:11,120
in southwest

4700
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:11,580
Wyoming

4701
01:25:11,580 --> 01:25:12,360
to all the

4702
01:25:12,360 --> 01:25:12,700
incidents

4703
01:25:12,700 --> 01:25:13,260
we've talked

4704
01:25:13,260 --> 01:25:13,580
about

4705
01:25:13,580 --> 01:25:15,900
again

4706
01:25:15,900 --> 01:25:16,500
it's another

4707
01:25:16,500 --> 01:25:17,220
one of those

4708
01:25:17,220 --> 01:25:17,900
coincidences

4709
01:25:17,900 --> 01:25:19,140
that you can't

4710
01:25:19,140 --> 01:25:19,380
ignore

4711
01:25:19,380 --> 01:25:23,980
the Ogallala

4712
01:25:23,980 --> 01:25:24,620
aquifer

4713
01:25:24,620 --> 01:25:25,520
that covers

4714
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:26,000
almost the

4715
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:26,800
exact area

4716
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:27,520
where nobody

4717
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:28,180
is missing

4718
01:25:28,180 --> 01:25:30,240
and I put it

4719
01:25:30,240 --> 01:25:30,520
in the back

4720
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:30,940
of my mind

4721
01:25:30,940 --> 01:25:31,280
and I didn't

4722
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:31,660
think much

4723
01:25:31,660 --> 01:25:31,960
about it

4724
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:32,160
but

4725
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:33,700
damn

4726
01:25:33,700 --> 01:25:34,240
you're saying

4727
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:35,020
that this

4728
01:25:35,020 --> 01:25:35,680
person digs

4729
01:25:35,680 --> 01:25:36,080
a well

4730
01:25:36,080 --> 01:25:36,540
and it's

4731
01:25:36,540 --> 01:25:37,260
an offshoot

4732
01:25:37,260 --> 01:25:37,680
from the

4733
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:38,180
Ogallala

4734
01:25:38,180 --> 01:25:38,920
and the aliens

4735
01:25:38,920 --> 01:25:39,720
told him to do it

4736
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:40,020
yeah

4737
01:25:40,020 --> 01:25:41,280
that's weird

4738
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:41,840
now what's

4739
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:42,320
really weird

4740
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:42,800
is they tell

4741
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:43,340
him to do it

4742
01:25:43,340 --> 01:25:43,860
and all the

4743
01:25:43,860 --> 01:25:44,480
geologists

4744
01:25:44,480 --> 01:25:45,600
and all those

4745
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:46,520
guys tell him

4746
01:25:46,520 --> 01:25:46,900
that there's

4747
01:25:46,900 --> 01:25:47,440
nothing there

4748
01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:48,080
he's crazy

4749
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:48,500
for doing

4750
01:25:48,500 --> 01:25:49,120
and he digs

4751
01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:49,400
the well

4752
01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:49,720
anyway

4753
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:50,300
and taps

4754
01:25:50,300 --> 01:25:50,740
in and

4755
01:25:50,740 --> 01:25:51,340
finds the

4756
01:25:51,340 --> 01:25:51,640
water

4757
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:53,380
so the

4758
01:25:53,380 --> 01:25:53,960
crazy guy

4759
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:54,640
was right

4760
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:55,480
now did

4761
01:25:55,480 --> 01:25:55,980
the aliens

4762
01:25:55,980 --> 01:25:56,420
tell him

4763
01:25:56,420 --> 01:25:56,820
to dig

4764
01:25:56,820 --> 01:25:57,220
the well

4765
01:25:57,220 --> 01:25:58,420
I don't

4766
01:25:58,420 --> 01:25:58,660
know

4767
01:25:58,660 --> 01:25:59,760
Pat said

4768
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:00,200
certainly

4769
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:00,600
believed

4770
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:00,840
that the

4771
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:01,140
aliens

4772
01:26:01,140 --> 01:26:01,540
told him

4773
01:26:01,540 --> 01:26:01,820
to dig

4774
01:26:01,820 --> 01:26:02,160
the well

4775
01:26:02,160 --> 01:26:03,320
the reason

4776
01:26:03,320 --> 01:26:04,500
for the

4777
01:26:04,500 --> 01:26:05,640
digging

4778
01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:06,040
of the

4779
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:06,300
well

4780
01:26:06,300 --> 01:26:07,920
was so

4781
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:09,220
that in

4782
01:26:09,220 --> 01:26:09,700
the event

4783
01:26:09,700 --> 01:26:10,460
that there

4784
01:26:10,460 --> 01:26:10,960
was a

4785
01:26:10,960 --> 01:26:12,020
global

4786
01:26:12,020 --> 01:26:12,940
cataclysm

4787
01:26:12,940 --> 01:26:13,640
that there

4788
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:14,060
would be a

4789
01:26:14,060 --> 01:26:14,740
fresh source

4790
01:26:14,740 --> 01:26:15,260
of water

4791
01:26:15,260 --> 01:26:16,340
for the

4792
01:26:16,340 --> 01:26:16,820
inhabitants

4793
01:26:16,820 --> 01:26:17,320
of that

4794
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:17,860
location

4795
01:26:17,860 --> 01:26:18,320
when it

4796
01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:18,980
took place

4797
01:26:18,980 --> 01:26:20,300
let's put

4798
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:20,720
all of this

4799
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:21,400
into perspective

4800
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:22,780
if we plot

4801
01:26:22,780 --> 01:26:23,460
the locations

4802
01:26:23,460 --> 01:26:24,000
of the

4803
01:26:24,000 --> 01:26:24,780
Wyoming cluster

4804
01:26:24,780 --> 01:26:25,180
of missing

4805
01:26:25,180 --> 01:26:25,500
hunters

4806
01:26:25,500 --> 01:26:26,060
on a map

4807
01:26:26,060 --> 01:26:29,100
this coincides

4808
01:26:29,100 --> 01:26:29,460
with the

4809
01:26:29,460 --> 01:26:29,920
spread of

4810
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:30,580
chronic wasting

4811
01:26:30,580 --> 01:26:31,000
disease

4812
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:31,400
throughout

4813
01:26:31,400 --> 01:26:31,960
southeast

4814
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:32,420
Wyoming

4815
01:26:32,420 --> 01:26:34,620
chronic wasting

4816
01:26:34,620 --> 01:26:35,040
disease

4817
01:26:35,040 --> 01:26:36,160
is decimating

4818
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:36,740
the elk

4819
01:26:36,740 --> 01:26:37,060
and deer

4820
01:26:37,060 --> 01:26:37,700
populations

4821
01:26:37,700 --> 01:26:38,120
in this

4822
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:38,420
region

4823
01:26:38,420 --> 01:26:39,900
all of the

4824
01:26:39,900 --> 01:26:40,180
missing

4825
01:26:40,180 --> 01:26:40,820
and abducted

4826
01:26:40,820 --> 01:26:41,220
men were

4827
01:26:41,220 --> 01:26:41,800
elk hunters

4828
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:42,840
and all of

4829
01:26:42,840 --> 01:26:43,500
them disappeared

4830
01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:44,380
in close proximity

4831
01:26:44,380 --> 01:26:44,940
to Warren

4832
01:26:44,940 --> 01:26:45,800
Air Force Base

4833
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:47,280
where numerous

4834
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:48,180
UFO sightings

4835
01:26:48,180 --> 01:26:48,440
have been

4836
01:26:48,440 --> 01:26:48,960
incredibly

4837
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:49,560
documented

4838
01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:50,140
by government

4839
01:26:50,140 --> 01:26:50,620
officials

4840
01:26:50,620 --> 01:26:52,400
we know

4841
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:52,740
from the

4842
01:26:52,740 --> 01:26:53,100
Higdon

4843
01:26:53,100 --> 01:26:54,020
and the

4844
01:26:54,020 --> 01:26:54,260
elk

4845
01:26:54,260 --> 01:26:54,760
abduction

4846
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:55,300
cases

4847
01:26:55,300 --> 01:26:56,260
that these

4848
01:26:56,260 --> 01:26:56,640
beings

4849
01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:57,220
wherever they

4850
01:26:57,220 --> 01:26:57,480
are

4851
01:26:57,480 --> 01:26:58,180
are interested

4852
01:26:58,180 --> 01:26:58,680
in North

4853
01:26:58,680 --> 01:26:59,040
American

4854
01:26:59,040 --> 01:26:59,300
elk

4855
01:26:59,300 --> 01:27:00,480
we can

4856
01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:01,280
hypothesize

4857
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:01,840
that perhaps

4858
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:02,380
these beings

4859
01:27:02,380 --> 01:27:03,000
are monitoring

4860
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:03,480
our elk

4861
01:27:03,480 --> 01:27:04,080
population

4862
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:05,080
for what is

4863
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:05,620
possibly

4864
01:27:05,620 --> 01:27:06,340
the worst

4865
01:27:06,340 --> 01:27:06,960
wildlife

4866
01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:07,660
disaster

4867
01:27:07,660 --> 01:27:08,180
in North

4868
01:27:08,180 --> 01:27:08,580
America

4869
01:27:08,580 --> 01:27:10,480
just northeast

4870
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:11,080
of this

4871
01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:11,500
cluster

4872
01:27:11,500 --> 01:27:12,220
is Pat

4873
01:27:12,220 --> 01:27:12,820
McGuire's

4874
01:27:12,820 --> 01:27:13,200
ranch

4875
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:14,060
where the

4876
01:27:14,060 --> 01:27:14,640
beings

4877
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:15,540
told him

4878
01:27:15,540 --> 01:27:16,100
to dig

4879
01:27:16,100 --> 01:27:16,400
a well

4880
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:16,920
for water

4881
01:27:16,920 --> 01:27:18,100
that miraculously

4882
01:27:18,100 --> 01:27:18,660
was fed

4883
01:27:18,660 --> 01:27:19,060
by the

4884
01:27:19,060 --> 01:27:19,560
Ogallala

4885
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:20,200
aquifer

4886
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:21,540
there are

4887
01:27:21,540 --> 01:27:22,060
no clusters

4888
01:27:22,060 --> 01:27:22,540
of missing

4889
01:27:22,540 --> 01:27:23,060
around this

4890
01:27:23,060 --> 01:27:23,500
property

4891
01:27:23,500 --> 01:27:24,780
nor are

4892
01:27:24,780 --> 01:27:25,400
there clusters

4893
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:26,100
of missing

4894
01:27:26,100 --> 01:27:26,760
in the main

4895
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:27,600
body of the

4896
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:28,060
aquifer

4897
01:27:28,060 --> 01:27:30,220
all the

4898
01:27:30,220 --> 01:27:30,600
victims

4899
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:31,580
in this

4900
01:27:31,580 --> 01:27:31,940
incident

4901
01:27:31,940 --> 01:27:32,740
were elk hunting

4902
01:27:32,740 --> 01:27:34,100
each was

4903
01:27:34,100 --> 01:27:34,500
alone

4904
01:27:34,500 --> 01:27:36,100
two of the

4905
01:27:36,100 --> 01:27:36,580
hunters in

4906
01:27:36,580 --> 01:27:36,920
Wyoming

4907
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:37,600
observed

4908
01:27:37,600 --> 01:27:38,420
a UFO

4909
01:27:38,420 --> 01:27:39,980
canines

4910
01:27:39,980 --> 01:27:40,500
could never

4911
01:27:40,500 --> 01:27:40,880
pick up

4912
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:41,240
a scent

4913
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:42,700
a UFO

4914
01:27:42,700 --> 01:27:43,380
in Washington

4915
01:27:43,380 --> 01:27:44,160
was observed

4916
01:27:44,160 --> 01:27:44,920
taking an

4917
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:45,180
elk

4918
01:27:45,180 --> 01:27:46,940
Carl Higdon

4919
01:27:46,940 --> 01:27:48,360
observed elk

4920
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:49,620
on a UFO

4921
01:27:49,620 --> 01:27:51,480
only one

4922
01:27:51,480 --> 01:27:51,980
victim was

4923
01:27:51,980 --> 01:27:52,660
ever found

4924
01:27:52,660 --> 01:27:53,780
that was

4925
01:27:53,780 --> 01:27:54,440
Carl Higdon

4926
01:27:54,440 --> 01:27:55,380
who believed

4927
01:27:55,380 --> 01:27:56,180
he was returned

4928
01:27:56,180 --> 01:27:56,920
because he had

4929
01:27:56,920 --> 01:27:57,580
a vasectomy

4930
01:27:57,580 --> 01:28:00,000
let's not forget

4931
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:00,640
the first

4932
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:01,280
missing person

4933
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:01,760
case

4934
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:03,020
Ray Salmon

4935
01:28:03,020 --> 01:28:03,580
from Harrison

4936
01:28:03,580 --> 01:28:03,860
Lake

4937
01:28:03,860 --> 01:28:04,640
British Columbia

4938
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:06,000
Ray and his

4939
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:06,480
wife had seen

4940
01:28:06,480 --> 01:28:07,260
UFOs in the

4941
01:28:07,260 --> 01:28:07,820
British Columbia

4942
01:28:07,820 --> 01:28:08,240
forest

4943
01:28:08,240 --> 01:28:08,900
in the past

4944
01:28:08,900 --> 01:28:10,240
Ray was a

4945
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:10,480
hunter

4946
01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:11,640
he was German

4947
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:13,400
he was camped

4948
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:14,260
adjacent to a

4949
01:28:14,260 --> 01:28:14,520
lake

4950
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:16,280
canines never

4951
01:28:16,280 --> 01:28:17,020
picked up a scent

4952
01:28:17,020 --> 01:28:18,340
his clothes

4953
01:28:18,340 --> 01:28:18,740
and rifle

4954
01:28:18,740 --> 01:28:19,200
were found

4955
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:19,760
on a beach

4956
01:28:19,760 --> 01:28:21,420
he disappeared

4957
01:28:21,420 --> 01:28:21,920
and was never

4958
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:22,340
found

4959
01:28:22,340 --> 01:28:23,920
it's another

4960
01:28:23,920 --> 01:28:24,680
incident that

4961
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:25,460
is an exact

4962
01:28:25,460 --> 01:28:26,160
match to the

4963
01:28:26,160 --> 01:28:26,980
Wyoming cases

4964
01:28:26,980 --> 01:28:29,040
as incredible

4965
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:29,880
as it sounds

4966
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:31,080
you have to

4967
01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:31,860
start wondering

4968
01:28:31,860 --> 01:28:33,160
what is

4969
01:28:33,160 --> 01:28:33,800
happening here

4970
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:35,200
there's nowhere

4971
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:35,820
to turn

4972
01:28:35,820 --> 01:28:36,760
and I don't

4973
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:37,440
think we left

4974
01:28:37,440 --> 01:28:38,080
many stones

4975
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:38,740
unturned

4976
01:28:38,740 --> 01:28:39,620
frustration

4977
01:28:39,620 --> 01:28:40,260
and fear

4978
01:28:40,260 --> 01:28:40,760
turns to

4979
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:41,080
anger

4980
01:28:41,080 --> 01:28:41,620
anger

4981
01:28:41,620 --> 01:28:42,100
to loss

4982
01:28:42,100 --> 01:28:42,540
of hope

4983
01:28:42,540 --> 01:28:43,220
as an

4984
01:28:43,220 --> 01:28:43,700
investigator

4985
01:28:43,700 --> 01:28:44,320
you do

4986
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:44,680
your due

4987
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:45,260
diligence

4988
01:28:45,260 --> 01:28:46,440
if you can't

4989
01:28:46,440 --> 01:28:47,080
provide closure

4990
01:28:47,080 --> 01:28:47,760
in a traditional

4991
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:48,220
sense

4992
01:28:48,220 --> 01:28:49,460
and the incredible

4993
01:28:49,460 --> 01:28:50,340
or paranormal

4994
01:28:50,340 --> 01:28:51,000
may be tied

4995
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:51,780
to the disappearance

4996
01:28:51,780 --> 01:28:53,040
how do you

4997
01:28:53,040 --> 01:28:53,480
explain that

4998
01:28:53,480 --> 01:28:54,020
to a grieving

4999
01:28:54,020 --> 01:28:54,780
family that

5000
01:28:54,780 --> 01:28:55,660
we might be

5001
01:28:55,660 --> 01:28:56,160
dealing with

5002
01:28:56,160 --> 01:28:56,800
something that

5003
01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:57,760
is just beyond

5004
01:28:57,760 --> 01:28:58,400
the normal

5005
01:28:58,400 --> 01:28:59,660
and the extreme

5006
01:28:59,660 --> 01:29:00,820
that leads

5007
01:29:00,820 --> 01:29:01,460
to unknown

5008
01:29:01,460 --> 01:29:02,100
consequences

5009
01:29:02,100 --> 01:29:04,720
it puts me

5010
01:29:04,720 --> 01:29:05,340
in a difficult

5011
01:29:05,340 --> 01:29:06,080
situation

5012
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:06,820
puts you

5013
01:29:06,820 --> 01:29:07,300
in a difficult

5014
01:29:07,300 --> 01:29:07,860
situation

5015
01:29:07,860 --> 01:29:09,080
when you have

5016
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:10,300
families that

5017
01:29:10,300 --> 01:29:11,120
are missing

5018
01:29:11,120 --> 01:29:11,780
a loved one

5019
01:29:11,780 --> 01:29:12,560
I can't go

5020
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:13,180
tell them this

5021
01:29:13,180 --> 01:29:13,680
exactly

5022
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:14,980
exactly

5023
01:29:14,980 --> 01:29:15,500
who's gonna

5024
01:29:15,500 --> 01:29:16,160
believe me

5025
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:16,540
yeah

5026
01:29:16,540 --> 01:29:17,920
yeah

5027
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:18,440
you can't

5028
01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:18,780
because

5029
01:29:18,780 --> 01:29:19,840
it's

5030
01:29:19,840 --> 01:29:21,320
it's

5031
01:29:21,320 --> 01:29:21,840
unprovable

5032
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:23,200
it's

5033
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:23,940
in a

5034
01:29:23,940 --> 01:29:24,880
in a purely

5035
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:25,660
physical world

5036
01:29:25,660 --> 01:29:26,580
it's just

5037
01:29:26,580 --> 01:29:27,540
not

5038
01:29:27,540 --> 01:29:28,320
provable

5039
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:29,800
yet eyewitnesses

5040
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:30,700
reports of

5041
01:29:30,700 --> 01:29:31,640
unexplained events

5042
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:32,140
in the skies

5043
01:29:32,140 --> 01:29:33,080
are increasing

5044
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:33,900
exponentially

5045
01:29:33,900 --> 01:29:35,280
how many calls

5046
01:29:35,280 --> 01:29:35,640
do you think

5047
01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:36,180
you get a year

5048
01:29:36,180 --> 01:29:38,560
I would say

5049
01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:40,520
between 30

5050
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:41,040
and 100

5051
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:41,900
per day

5052
01:29:41,900 --> 01:29:42,600
typically

5053
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:43,760
so

5054
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:45,480
say in rough

5055
01:29:45,480 --> 01:29:46,180
round figures

5056
01:29:46,180 --> 01:29:47,240
somewhere between

5057
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:48,060
20 and 30

5058
01:29:48,060 --> 01:29:48,980
thousand calls

5059
01:29:48,980 --> 01:29:49,420
a year

5060
01:29:49,420 --> 01:29:50,680
and the conviction

5061
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:51,300
and credibility

5062
01:29:51,300 --> 01:29:51,940
of those who

5063
01:29:51,940 --> 01:29:52,340
have witnessed

5064
01:29:52,340 --> 01:29:52,640
them

5065
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:53,760
is unnerving

5066
01:29:53,760 --> 01:29:54,760
to say the least

5067
01:29:54,760 --> 01:29:56,400
believe it or not

5068
01:29:56,400 --> 01:29:57,800
I just know

5069
01:29:57,800 --> 01:29:58,340
what I saw

5070
01:29:58,340 --> 01:29:59,640
a lot of truths

5071
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:00,320
are really

5072
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:01,760
experiential

5073
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:02,640
elk hunters

5074
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:03,780
of German heritage

5075
01:30:03,780 --> 01:30:04,560
are being taken

5076
01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:05,780
in specific regions

5077
01:30:05,780 --> 01:30:06,640
in North America

5078
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:09,240
witnesses corroborate

5079
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:10,520
bizarre occurrences

5080
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:11,100
in the sky

5081
01:30:11,100 --> 01:30:12,360
directly related

5082
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:13,140
to these incidents

5083
01:30:13,140 --> 01:30:14,480
what's left

5084
01:30:14,480 --> 01:30:15,200
are the words

5085
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:15,700
of those

5086
01:30:15,700 --> 01:30:16,300
who have lost

5087
01:30:16,300 --> 01:30:16,820
so much

5088
01:30:16,820 --> 01:30:18,040
and those

5089
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:18,540
who return

5090
01:30:18,540 --> 01:30:19,020
to share

5091
01:30:19,020 --> 01:30:19,680
their stories

5092
01:30:33,780 --> 01:30:33,880
and there

5093
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:35,300
is what happens

5094
01:30:35,300 --> 01:30:47,680
every week

5095
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:49,800
in different

5096
01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:50,020
know

5097
01:30:50,020 --> 01:31:20,000
Thank you.

5098
01:31:20,020 --> 01:31:50,000
Thank you.

5099
01:31:50,020 --> 01:32:20,000
Thank you.

5100
01:32:20,020 --> 01:32:50,000
Thank you.

5101
01:32:50,020 --> 01:33:20,000
Thank you.