1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:16,960 At the onset of the pandemic in March of 2020, I became very quickly involved with 2 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:22,800 other physicians at my medical center in organizing one of the first prophylactic... 3 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,240 hydroxychloroquine. 4 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:27,420 Things seemed to be going great in March. 5 00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:33,740 But as we moved into April and May, I noticed a disturbing trend, and the trend was no... 6 00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:38,939 to treat patients who were sick with COVID-19 at home or in nursing homes. 7 00:00:38,939 --> 00:00:44,980 And it almost seemed as if patients were intentionally not being treated, allowed t... 8 00:00:44,980 --> 00:00:49,140 and get to the point where they couldn't breathe, and then be admitted to the... 9 00:00:49,140 --> 00:00:53,939 What for our listeners at home, what is the best protocol and where can they find it? 10 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:39,299 Today, we're talking to Dr. Peter McCullough, who I will allow to introduce himself since 11 00:01:39,299 --> 00:01:40,299 that's been an issue. 12 00:01:40,299 --> 00:01:42,019 Doctor, go ahead. 13 00:01:42,019 --> 00:01:45,980 Give us a, introduce yourself and give us a little bit about your background. 14 00:01:45,980 --> 00:01:49,659 Well thanks for having me and thanks for being respectful on the introduction. 15 00:01:49,659 --> 00:01:56,180 I'm currently being sued by a major billion dollar health system regarding scientific 16 00:01:56,180 --> 00:02:01,180 interchange and free speech with respect to institutional affiliations. 17 00:02:01,180 --> 00:02:02,180 So I'm Peter McCullough. 18 00:02:02,180 --> 00:02:04,340 I'm an internist and cardiologist. 19 00:02:04,340 --> 00:02:06,060 We're in Dallas, Texas. 20 00:02:06,060 --> 00:02:10,819 I'm in practice, in private practice, in a large major medical center. 21 00:02:10,819 --> 00:02:15,900 I am on staff with full staff privileges at the Baylor University Medical Center and the 22 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:18,939 Baylor Heart and Vascular Hospital. 23 00:02:18,939 --> 00:02:24,500 I previously was employed by Baylor Scott and White Health System Health Texas Provider 24 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:31,219 And I transitioned from that contract at the beginning of February to a private practice 25 00:02:31,219 --> 00:02:33,099 contract. 26 00:02:33,099 --> 00:02:38,900 But my lawsuit has to deal with institutional affiliation in the media. 27 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:43,780 And I can tell you and tell your audience that I have never claimed prior titles. 28 00:02:43,780 --> 00:02:49,379 I've never falsely associated myself with any institution, including St. John Providence 29 00:02:49,379 --> 00:02:52,620 Health System, Ascension Health before this. 30 00:02:52,620 --> 00:02:59,020 But I have always expressed my own opinions and not the opinions of any other... 31 00:02:59,020 --> 00:03:00,980 I am an academic physician. 32 00:03:00,980 --> 00:03:04,300 I see and examine patients every day and every week. 33 00:03:04,300 --> 00:03:08,780 And I've been integrally involved in the COVID-19 pandemic response. 34 00:03:08,780 --> 00:03:11,620 I am well published in my field. 35 00:03:11,620 --> 00:03:16,620 I have over 600 citations in the National Library of Medicine, well over 40,... 36 00:03:16,620 --> 00:03:17,980 on COVID-19. 37 00:03:17,979 --> 00:03:23,299 I've published the two major breakthrough papers on the early treatment of COVID-19 38 00:03:23,299 --> 00:03:27,500 in the American Journal of Medicine and Reviews in Cardiovascular Medicine in 2020. 39 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:31,419 And I've been asked on behalf of the U.S. Senate and the Texas Senate to provide my 40 00:03:31,419 --> 00:03:35,099 opinions to Americans regarding pandemic response. 41 00:03:35,099 --> 00:03:38,699 Can you briefly summarize your experience of the pandemic? 42 00:03:38,699 --> 00:03:44,780 When did you first begin to question the official wisdom and protocols surrounding it? 43 00:03:44,780 --> 00:03:50,539 At the onset of the pandemic in March of 2020, I became very quickly involved with 44 00:03:50,539 --> 00:03:56,379 other physicians at my medical center in organizing one of the first prophylactic... 45 00:03:56,379 --> 00:03:57,979 hydroxychloroquine. 46 00:03:57,979 --> 00:04:01,979 And over the course of a weekend, we worked with the U.S. FDA. 47 00:04:01,979 --> 00:04:06,039 We had a investigation on new drug application approved. 48 00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:08,060 We had internal grant funding. 49 00:04:08,060 --> 00:04:13,139 And we put everything together very quickly in order to help protect the workers in our 50 00:04:13,459 --> 00:04:14,779 health care system. 51 00:04:14,779 --> 00:04:19,360 And things seem to be going great in March. 52 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,180 But as we moved into April and May, I noticed a disturbing trend. 53 00:04:23,180 --> 00:04:30,000 And the trend was no effort to treat patients who were sick with COVID-19 at home or in 54 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,000 nursing homes. 55 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,919 And it almost seemed as if patients were intentionally not being treated, allowed t... 56 00:04:36,919 --> 00:04:41,339 and get to the point where they couldn't breathe, and then be admitted to the... 57 00:04:41,539 --> 00:04:46,539 And it just seemed it's like such an unusual response if this had been any other form 58 00:04:46,539 --> 00:04:51,259 of pneumonia, respiratory illness, or any other illness in the human body where as 59 00:04:51,259 --> 00:04:57,179 an infection, if we start early, we can actually treat much more easily than wait... 60 00:04:57,179 --> 00:04:58,179 are very sick. 61 00:04:58,179 --> 00:05:01,679 And we learned quickly that it takes about two weeks for someone to get sick enough at 62 00:05:01,679 --> 00:05:03,819 home to require hospitalization. 63 00:05:03,819 --> 00:05:08,899 We learned within a couple of weeks or months that there were three major parts of the... 64 00:05:09,459 --> 00:05:12,439 The virus was replicating for as long as two weeks. 65 00:05:12,439 --> 00:05:16,079 There was incredible inflammation in the body and then blood clotting. 66 00:05:16,079 --> 00:05:20,379 So I think most doctors, including myself, understood a single drug was not going to 67 00:05:20,379 --> 00:05:22,419 be enough to treat this illness. 68 00:05:22,419 --> 00:05:24,620 We had to use drugs in combination. 69 00:05:24,620 --> 00:05:29,859 And so what I did is I have to tell you, as I was watching TV, the White House Task Force 70 00:05:29,859 --> 00:05:34,439 One, and other people who got involved, as well as other local and institutional... 71 00:05:34,439 --> 00:05:43,519 no one said that hospitalizations and deaths were the bad outcome of COVID-19 and that 72 00:05:43,519 --> 00:05:47,920 they were going to put together a team of doctors to stop these hospitalizations and 73 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:48,920 deaths. 74 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,480 And after a couple of months went by, I have to tell you, I think I may have been one of 75 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,480 the few people in the nation to say that. 76 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,800 I said, listen, I am not going to tolerate that. 77 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,040 I'm not going to tolerate that in my practice. 78 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,319 And I'm not going to tolerate that on a national or worldwide level. 79 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,920 So I reached out to the Italians who were doing great work. 80 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,639 They were getting bombed in Milan. 81 00:06:07,639 --> 00:06:09,639 I had friends down in Siena. 82 00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:14,040 We worked with the Coracle Network, communicating rapidly, saying what drugs a... 83 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,259 drugs are not working, how can we actually start to use drugs in combination. 84 00:06:18,259 --> 00:06:24,639 And then by July 1st, we had our first protocol based on signals of benefit and... 85 00:06:24,639 --> 00:06:27,779 safety that was submitted to the American Journal of Medicine. 86 00:06:27,779 --> 00:06:30,619 Within 30 days, it was published electronically. 87 00:06:30,619 --> 00:06:35,259 And that paper titled The Pathophysiologic Basis and Clinical Rationale for Early... 88 00:06:35,259 --> 00:06:40,699 Treatment of COVID-19 quickly became the most doubtless paper to help doctors in the 89 00:06:40,699 --> 00:06:42,459 world treat COVID-19. 90 00:06:42,459 --> 00:06:44,339 And it was based on three principles. 91 00:06:44,339 --> 00:06:47,219 We're going to use medications to slow down the virus. 92 00:06:47,219 --> 00:06:51,699 We're going to use medications to basically attenuate or reduce inflammation. 93 00:06:51,699 --> 00:06:53,939 And then lastly, we're going to address blood clotting. 94 00:06:53,939 --> 00:06:58,620 And very quickly, we had great deliverance from Operation Warp Speed. 95 00:06:58,620 --> 00:07:01,860 We had monoclonal antibodies that were high tech. 96 00:07:01,860 --> 00:07:04,219 They were fully FDA, EUA approved. 97 00:07:04,219 --> 00:07:09,360 We had data come on with ivermectin, another drug that was actually those in Bangladesh 98 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,180 and elsewhere were working with that looked terrific. 99 00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:17,600 The Canadians came on with colchicine in a high quality trial based on the initial Greek 100 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:18,600 trial. 101 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:24,400 And then we learned more from experts at UCLA and elsewhere with respect to blood clotting 102 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,220 and the need for aspirin and blood thinners. 103 00:07:27,220 --> 00:07:32,180 So in December of 2020, in a dedicated supplement issue of Reviews and... 104 00:07:32,180 --> 00:07:34,000 the second paper was published. 105 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:39,800 It was titled Sequence Multidrug Therapy for Early Ambulatory Treatment of COVID-19. 106 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:44,120 And it involved the full breadth of drugs that we have available today, including the 107 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,800 EUA monoclonal antibodies, including oral antivirals. 108 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,720 By that time, we were supported by over 200 studies with hydroxychloroquine, 60 studies 109 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:54,720 with ivermectin. 110 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,079 We combined with doxycycline and zithromycin. 111 00:07:57,079 --> 00:07:59,720 We were supported by a meta-analysis using steroids. 112 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,600 We could use simple prednisone, widely available. 113 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:10,100 Supported by two studies with inhaled budesonide, a very large study with... 114 00:08:10,100 --> 00:08:14,500 And then finally, we had observational data from in the hospital on full dose aspirin 115 00:08:14,500 --> 00:08:17,620 and full dose anticoagulation with low-mulicoid heparin. 116 00:08:17,620 --> 00:08:22,260 Now, that's a lot to digest for your listeners, but I can tell you, doctors can... 117 00:08:22,260 --> 00:08:27,560 drugs, four to six drugs in combination, supplemented by vitamins and nutraceutical... 118 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:33,960 can guide patients at home, even the highest-risk seniors, and avoid a dreaded... 119 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:34,960 and death. 120 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:35,960 But we didn't stop there. 121 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:43,840 We worked with a practice north of us in Dallas in the Plano-Frisco area that did 122 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,440 this protocol in hundreds of patients. 123 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:52,440 They demonstrated an 85% reduction in hospitalization and death, as well as anot... 124 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:58,320 by legendary Dr. Vladimir Zelenko in Monroe, New York, that showed the exact same thing. 125 00:08:58,320 --> 00:08:59,320 Others have come on. 126 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,700 There's been an analysis by Paul Alexander, published in Medical Hypotheses, in the... 127 00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:04,700 home. 128 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:09,020 Almost anything done in the nursing home, different components of these protocols... 129 00:09:09,020 --> 00:09:10,580 mortality by 60%. 130 00:09:10,580 --> 00:09:12,940 Again, we didn't stop there. 131 00:09:12,940 --> 00:09:18,540 We reached out to Dr. Berendios in South America, Dr. Chetty in South Africa, and w... 132 00:09:18,540 --> 00:09:24,020 even if hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin had become so politicized that no one wanted 133 00:09:24,020 --> 00:09:29,700 to allow these drugs to be used, we could use other drugs, anti-inflammatories,... 134 00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:34,220 as well as anticoagulants, and actually time the illness and again treat it to reduce 135 00:09:34,220 --> 00:09:35,820 hospitalization and death. 136 00:09:35,820 --> 00:09:45,420 As we sit here today, I am concerned that this entire effort received no support from 137 00:09:45,420 --> 00:09:49,000 any government in the entire world. 138 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,840 We had hero doctors that really had to break with the academic ivory tower. 139 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:58,360 We didn't have a single academic institution come up with a single protocol. 140 00:09:58,360 --> 00:09:59,759 They didn't even try. 141 00:09:59,759 --> 00:10:03,639 Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Duke, you name it. 142 00:10:03,639 --> 00:10:08,759 Not a single medical center set up even a tent to try to treat patients and prevent 143 00:10:08,759 --> 00:10:10,360 hospitalization and death. 144 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,720 There wasn't an ounce of original research. 145 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:18,000 Finally, the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons, frontline critica... 146 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:23,480 American frontline doctors, independent organizations, galvanized, organized the... 147 00:10:23,560 --> 00:10:28,680 national telemedicine services, three regional telemedicine services, took over... 148 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:31,300 We crushed the curves at the beginning of January. 149 00:10:31,300 --> 00:10:37,480 We put America on a low steady plateau, and we basically got COVID-19 under control. 150 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,279 What happened in early January was remarkable. 151 00:10:40,279 --> 00:10:44,279 New cases, hospitalizations and deaths dropped at the same time. 152 00:10:44,279 --> 00:10:46,639 The only thing that can do that is early treatment. 153 00:10:46,639 --> 00:10:47,639 Why? 154 00:10:47,639 --> 00:10:53,279 Because early treatment reduces the infectivity period from 14 days to about f... 155 00:10:53,279 --> 00:10:57,799 It allows someone to stay in the home so they don't contaminate people outside the home. 156 00:10:57,799 --> 00:11:01,919 And then it has this remarkable effect in reducing the intensity and duration of... 157 00:11:01,919 --> 00:11:06,000 so patients don't get so short of breath, they don't get into this panic where they 158 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,399 break containment and go to the hospital. 159 00:11:08,399 --> 00:11:12,199 Every hospitalization in America, there's been millions of them, have been super... 160 00:11:12,199 --> 00:11:13,199 events. 161 00:11:13,199 --> 00:11:16,799 They actually contaminate their loved ones, paramedics, Uber drivers, people in the... 162 00:11:16,799 --> 00:11:17,799 and offices. 163 00:11:17,799 --> 00:11:19,199 It becomes a total mess. 164 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,600 If we can treat COVID-19 at home, we actually can extinguish the treatment at home. 165 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:26,100 So this has been a story of American heroes. 166 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:28,920 It's been a story of worldwide success. 167 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:31,740 In the UK, the Bird Group is doing the same thing. 168 00:11:31,740 --> 00:11:37,780 In Italy, the treatment domiciliary COVID-19 group, they've actually had rallies in the 169 00:11:37,780 --> 00:11:43,379 Piazzas of Italy declaring zero hospitalizations with this multi-drug... 170 00:11:43,379 --> 00:11:47,840 We have Panda in South Africa, the COVID Medical Network in Australia. 171 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:55,259 And so despite the various government agencies and the ivory tower medical... 172 00:11:55,259 --> 00:12:01,120 not lifting a finger with COVID-19, independent doctors and hero organizations... 173 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,200 And to this day, we're in the middle of another outbreak is called Delta. 174 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,280 Guess who's treating the Delta patients? 175 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:12,180 It's again, not the academic medical centers or even the large group practices. 176 00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:13,780 They're not touching these patients. 177 00:12:13,779 --> 00:12:18,059 It's independent doctors who are actually compassionately reaching out and using what 178 00:12:18,059 --> 00:12:20,100 we call the precautionary principle. 179 00:12:20,100 --> 00:12:26,519 They are using their best medical judgment and scientific data to apply therapy now. 180 00:12:26,519 --> 00:12:29,220 Now we know we need large randomized trials. 181 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:31,039 Right now we need large multi-drug trials. 182 00:12:31,039 --> 00:12:35,019 We need trials of 20,000 patients or more with four to six drugs. 183 00:12:35,019 --> 00:12:37,079 Those trials are not even planned. 184 00:12:37,079 --> 00:12:40,860 So for any of our academic colleagues that have said, Dr. McCullough, we need to wait 185 00:12:40,860 --> 00:12:42,579 for large randomized trials. 186 00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:45,280 What I've always said is, listen, this is a mass casualty thing. 187 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:46,280 People are dying now. 188 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,759 They're being hospitalized now. 189 00:12:47,759 --> 00:12:49,840 We can't wait for large randomized trials. 190 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:55,660 And when I testified in the U.S. Senate, our minority witness, his retort to all of our 191 00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:58,520 evidence and our approach was, you don't have enough evidence. 192 00:12:58,520 --> 00:12:59,520 You have enough evidence. 193 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:00,520 You don't have enough evidence. 194 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:05,360 And Senator Johnson finally broke the question two hours into this young academi... 195 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,000 who was advising America to basically do nothing for COVID-19. 196 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:10,759 That was his summary recommendation. 197 00:13:10,759 --> 00:13:12,779 Do nothing and wait for the vaccine. 198 00:13:12,779 --> 00:13:17,779 Senator Johnson asked him, Doctor, have you ever treated a COVID-19 patient? 199 00:13:17,779 --> 00:13:19,860 Have you actually seen one? 200 00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:21,740 And he sheepishly admitted, no, I haven't. 201 00:13:21,740 --> 00:13:27,419 Obviously, I'm not perfect, but I try to use science as well as compassion to guide me. 202 00:13:27,419 --> 00:13:28,419 We appreciate that. 203 00:13:28,419 --> 00:13:30,139 Have you treated any COVID patients? 204 00:13:30,139 --> 00:13:31,139 I have not, sir. 205 00:13:31,139 --> 00:13:32,139 OK. 206 00:13:32,139 --> 00:13:38,220 I have to tell you, I am the most published person in my field in the world in history 207 00:13:38,220 --> 00:13:40,019 before COVID-19. 208 00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:42,279 I'm the editor of two major journals. 209 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:46,840 I have over 40 publications of COVID-19, including the two critical treatment... 210 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,579 And there's others, other groups that the same concepts are supported. 211 00:13:51,579 --> 00:13:54,159 I've had COVID-19 myself with pulmonary involvement. 212 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:55,159 My wife has had it. 213 00:13:55,159 --> 00:13:58,079 On my wife's side of the family, we've had a fatality. 214 00:13:58,079 --> 00:14:04,220 I can tell you, as a single person, I believe I have as much or more medical authority to 215 00:14:04,220 --> 00:14:07,419 give my opinions than anybody in the world. 216 00:14:07,419 --> 00:14:12,639 What for our listeners at home, what is the best protocol and where can they find it? 217 00:14:12,639 --> 00:14:17,479 In your view, treating the patients, where have you seen the most success? 218 00:14:17,479 --> 00:14:18,479 What should they do? 219 00:14:18,479 --> 00:14:20,959 Is there something they can do prophylaptically? 220 00:14:20,959 --> 00:14:22,360 What should they be doing right now? 221 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,919 Well, first, let's cover access to protocols. 222 00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:30,120 Fortunately, since early October, America has had access to protocols. 223 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,399 So the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons has a home treatment guide. 224 00:14:35,399 --> 00:14:38,939 This is available at aapsonline.org. 225 00:14:38,939 --> 00:14:40,500 And it's freely downloadable. 226 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:44,860 We estimate, actually, it's been downloaded millions of times and passed around millions 227 00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:45,860 of times. 228 00:14:45,860 --> 00:14:48,100 So it's been heavily utilized. 229 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:54,259 The Frontline Critical Care Consortium, FLCCC, they have their own sets of protoco... 230 00:14:54,259 --> 00:14:58,159 concepts called IMath and Math Plus. 231 00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:00,500 These are also available for use. 232 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:03,699 So does the American Frontline Doctors. 233 00:15:03,699 --> 00:15:04,799 They have protocols. 234 00:15:04,799 --> 00:15:10,959 They're all very similar, but they involve a list of nutraceuticals and vitamins, which 235 00:15:10,959 --> 00:15:16,319 are not curative, but they form a good base because we know patients with deficiencies 236 00:15:16,319 --> 00:15:19,559 of these become at risk for hospitalization and death. 237 00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:24,719 And they employ the concepts of using drugs in combination. 238 00:15:24,719 --> 00:15:28,639 And so these combinations, it does take a doctor to prescribe these. 239 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:32,779 And that's the reason why patients need to ask their doctor if they're willing to treat 240 00:15:32,779 --> 00:15:33,779 COVID-19. 241 00:15:33,779 --> 00:15:37,059 If the doctor's not comfortable, not willing, the patient can't take no for an answer. 242 00:15:37,059 --> 00:15:40,139 That's actually how we have had mortalities in the United States. 243 00:15:40,139 --> 00:15:42,659 The patient must move on to these telemedicine services. 244 00:15:42,659 --> 00:15:49,279 When you described this at-home treatment protocol, it sort of emerged by implication 245 00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:54,339 that when people aren't going out and about, they therefore aren't spreading because at 246 00:15:54,339 --> 00:15:56,699 that point, are they symptomatic? 247 00:15:56,699 --> 00:16:00,339 Is there such a thing as a symptomatic spread in your experience? 248 00:16:00,340 --> 00:16:06,200 Well, fortunately, the models, the previous models that predicted 40 to 50 percent of 249 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,600 the spread of COVID-19 was in completely asymptomatic patients, those models were... 250 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:12,680 to be true. 251 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,740 And two very good analyses, one by Madewell, the other one by Cao published in... 252 00:16:17,740 --> 00:16:21,920 literature showed that asymptomatic spread is negligible. 253 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,300 In the Cao paper, for instance, in China, they evaluated 10 million people in order 254 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:28,580 to figure out who's asymptomatically carrying it. 255 00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:30,900 They were able to come up with 300 people. 256 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:35,160 And among those 300 people, the vast majority were just forming antibodies to the virus 257 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,660 anyway, and they weren't communicable. 258 00:16:36,660 --> 00:16:38,500 They weren't spreading the illness. 259 00:16:38,500 --> 00:16:43,780 So even the World Health Organization recognizes now as of June 25th, the World... 260 00:16:43,780 --> 00:16:46,860 says no more asymptomatic testing. 261 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:52,220 In the United States, we've had about 35 million Americans get COVID-19. 262 00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:57,759 And you know, we've actually performed 400 million COVID-19 tests. 263 00:16:57,759 --> 00:17:04,720 So we know that if a COVID-19 PCR test is done in someone who's asymptomatic, which, 264 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:09,720 again, shouldn't be done, shouldn't be done, the FDA has never granted any approvals for 265 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:10,720 this. 266 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,460 Asymptomatic testing has actually never been have any regulatory approval. 267 00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:20,359 But if it's done, let's say by an airline or a nursing home or a government facility, 268 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:26,000 when it is positive, it's far more likely to be a false positive than a true positive. 269 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,279 And this has been done in sports teams and others, and all it is is creating a churn. 270 00:17:30,279 --> 00:17:35,140 And by the way, every positive test does get reported as a COVID case. 271 00:17:35,140 --> 00:17:38,720 So people have estimated in the United States, people say, cases are on the rise. 272 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,680 We pretty much have to have a correction factor of about 40%. 273 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,440 Our case count is inflated about 40% because of asymptomatic false positive testing, which 274 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:49,440 should not be done. 275 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,720 Well, let's talk a bit about tests. 276 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:57,839 I mean, the CDC just, as I understand what just came out, admitted that their original 277 00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:03,519 test was devised without reference to the actual virus, but to some kind of, you know, 278 00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:05,000 guesstimate or confabulation. 279 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,380 I'm not really sure. 280 00:18:06,380 --> 00:18:10,200 And then, of course, there's the whole question of how many replication cycles ar... 281 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,480 So what's your assessment of the test? 282 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,680 You gave us some indication, but it seems like if you go beyond a certain replication 283 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,259 threshold, you're guaranteed a false positive. 284 00:18:19,259 --> 00:18:20,960 So how can we trust? 285 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,720 You say it's only 40% inflation. 286 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,240 Isn't it not possible that, you know, we have even higher inflation? 287 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:31,200 Well, it depends on how many symptomatic and asymptomatic people are actually being... 288 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:36,279 And so those estimates, you know, a leading expert on this is Dr. Jack Lyons-Wyler, and 289 00:18:36,279 --> 00:18:39,720 he's, you know, performed a whole series of analyses. 290 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,940 And I think that 40% is pretty reasonable. 291 00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:44,120 Some people say it's higher. 292 00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:48,860 But of the total case count, maybe 40% is a false positive. 293 00:18:48,859 --> 00:18:57,699 But it is now sort of evolving into a bit of a standard that if you get a cycle threshold 294 00:18:57,699 --> 00:19:03,899 of 35 or more, that the chances of it being replication competent are minuscule. 295 00:19:03,899 --> 00:19:08,179 So that if somebody, and you know, we do, we have patients, and it's very frustrating 296 00:19:08,179 --> 00:19:15,579 for the patients, as well as for the physicians, somebody comes in, and they... 297 00:19:15,579 --> 00:19:19,539 and it's like 37 cycle threshold. 298 00:19:19,539 --> 00:19:26,279 But you never, you almost never can culture virus from a 37 threshold cycle. 299 00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:32,699 So I think if somebody does come in with 37, 38, even 36, you got to say, you know, it's 300 00:19:32,699 --> 00:19:36,139 just dead nucleotides, period. 301 00:19:36,139 --> 00:19:44,419 What's your current perspective on the fraction of transmission now that's either... 302 00:19:44,420 --> 00:19:48,820 or pre-symptomatic versus symptomatic? 303 00:19:48,820 --> 00:19:53,900 You know, Richard, I know you asked that. 304 00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:59,300 I like these questions because there's no right or wrong answer because we don't know. 305 00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:04,779 But we can guess so long as we don't take our guesses too seriously. 306 00:20:04,779 --> 00:20:07,779 What the CDC recently announced is their original assay. 307 00:20:07,779 --> 00:20:13,720 So the CDC actually had a PCR, a polymerase chain reaction assay, their original assay, 308 00:20:13,759 --> 00:20:20,079 of which some manufacturers modeled the same approach on, was unable to distinguish... 309 00:20:20,079 --> 00:20:23,600 influenza and COVID-19. 310 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:31,660 So this is worrisome because those individuals who, let's say, truly had... 311 00:20:31,660 --> 00:20:38,839 came into a clinic and if they weren't simultaneously tested for influenza and... 312 00:20:38,839 --> 00:20:42,259 if they had influenza, it would have, with that assay, it would have tested positive 313 00:20:42,259 --> 00:20:43,579 for COVID. 314 00:20:43,579 --> 00:20:47,919 So now we would have had a patient who truly has influenza, but they're actually diagnosed 315 00:20:47,919 --> 00:20:48,919 as COVID. 316 00:20:48,919 --> 00:20:50,819 They count as a COVID case. 317 00:20:50,819 --> 00:20:53,839 If they had severe enough symptoms, they would have been hospitalized. 318 00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:59,259 They may have been given remdesivir, dexamethasone, convalescent plasma. 319 00:20:59,259 --> 00:21:00,259 We keep going. 320 00:21:00,259 --> 00:21:06,579 This, honestly, this misdiagnosis of influenza as COVID-19, we don't know how m... 321 00:21:06,579 --> 00:21:07,619 this happened. 322 00:21:07,619 --> 00:21:13,059 It sounds like a medical nightmare that basically some of our seniors and other si... 323 00:21:13,079 --> 00:21:14,639 through the fall had to endure. 324 00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:21,460 I mean, we saw right from the beginning that the CDC guidance was to assume COVID on the 325 00:21:21,460 --> 00:21:24,259 death certificate, for instance, at the NHS. 326 00:21:24,259 --> 00:21:28,220 They were counting, you know, anyone who had had a positive test and, you know, any 327 00:21:28,220 --> 00:21:34,019 lethality, any lethal event within a month of a positive test as a COVID death. 328 00:21:34,319 --> 00:21:40,740 So when we hear about 600000 dead in in this country, and I know that, you know, your 329 00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:46,819 thrust has been about those so many people that could have been prevented from dying. 330 00:21:46,819 --> 00:21:50,920 But when we're talking about, you know, is that number 600000? 331 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:56,779 Is that a realistic number of the people who actually died of COVID or even with COVID? 332 00:21:56,779 --> 00:21:59,180 Is it or is that an inflated number? 333 00:21:59,180 --> 00:22:03,900 Well, there were published estimates, one from the Center for Disease Control, one I 334 00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:10,220 saw in one of the major news lines that indicated the anticipated mortality in the... 335 00:22:10,259 --> 00:22:12,779 States would be 1.7 to 2.1 million. 336 00:22:13,180 --> 00:22:16,059 And the only thing that headed that off was early treatment. 337 00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:20,620 We know the hospital actually was not saving as many lives as what people think. 338 00:22:20,819 --> 00:22:25,900 The contemporary mortality for someone admitted to the ICU in the Stop COVID prog... 339 00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:30,140 headed out of Harvard Medical School is over 30 percent. 340 00:22:30,140 --> 00:22:31,500 I mean, that's staggering mortality. 341 00:22:31,579 --> 00:22:35,940 Overall, hospital mortality, fortunately, over the last several months has gone down. 342 00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:36,980 It's under 10 percent. 343 00:22:37,220 --> 00:22:40,420 So we know that we're doing much better with early treatment. 344 00:22:40,579 --> 00:22:45,700 And an analysis by Ip and colleagues from New Jersey showed if patients got even any 345 00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:50,420 type of early treatment, you know, an abbreviated or abridged course of... 346 00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:54,940 plus other drugs, any form of early treatment, markedly reduced inpatient... 347 00:22:55,059 --> 00:22:59,500 We even have randomized trials of patients who receive monoclonal antibodies like... 348 00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:04,900 Trump did. Regeneron is our featured antibody now, but previously, Lilly, even if they had 349 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:09,259 gotten an antibody infusion, it actually took the edge off the mortality risk if they 350 00:23:09,259 --> 00:23:10,780 were subsequently hospitalized. 351 00:23:10,780 --> 00:23:15,660 And I've seen this in my practice in patients with heart failure and advanced heart 352 00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:16,700 lunging kidney disease. 353 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:22,900 So the important point here is that early treatment is the determinant of survival, 354 00:23:23,140 --> 00:23:25,140 not what happens in the hospital. 355 00:23:25,740 --> 00:23:29,340 Now, just in general, how lethal is COVID? 356 00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:32,900 How dangerous is it in and of itself? 357 00:23:33,420 --> 00:23:39,060 Well, mortality in COVID-19 is understandable in what's called risk stratification. 358 00:23:39,060 --> 00:23:40,780 It's unlike other illnesses. 359 00:23:41,019 --> 00:23:47,620 If we were to take another illness, let's say an overwhelming staphococcal infection or 360 00:23:47,620 --> 00:23:54,180 a a crush injury or something like this, it may not be so amenable to risk... 361 00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:59,860 But in COVID-19, it's really exquisitely related to age and it's exquisitely relate... 362 00:23:59,859 --> 00:24:06,579 other superimposed what we call comorbidities or medical risk factors, including heart 363 00:24:06,579 --> 00:24:11,459 disease, lung disease, kidney disease, prior cancer, diabetes, obesity, asthma. 364 00:24:12,139 --> 00:24:15,179 These these conditions increase the risk. 365 00:24:15,179 --> 00:24:20,740 So what the listeners can understand is age under 50, no other major medical problems. 366 00:24:20,939 --> 00:24:26,219 There's less than a one percent chance of mortality, less than one percent chance of 367 00:24:26,219 --> 00:24:27,779 hospitalization. They're going to do fine. 368 00:24:27,980 --> 00:24:33,059 In fact, in our published treatment protocols, we say below age 50,... 369 00:24:33,059 --> 00:24:36,660 hydration and kind of ride it out in quarantine, no treatment needed. 370 00:24:36,819 --> 00:24:41,539 That means in a conventional practice, only about 25 percent of people would actually 371 00:24:41,539 --> 00:24:44,139 have to treat. So we can focus on a much smaller group. 372 00:24:44,379 --> 00:24:49,579 Now, of those, when we get to higher and higher age brackets, the rates go up. 373 00:24:49,579 --> 00:24:53,899 And in fact, a let's say someone who's in a nursing home with multiple medical problems, 374 00:24:54,060 --> 00:25:00,300 that person could face, let's say, a 10, 20, 40 percent mortality. 375 00:25:00,340 --> 00:25:04,019 That's really a significant overall mortality. 376 00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:09,500 So the CDC on their website has analyzed these deaths and readily acknowledges that 377 00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:14,500 fewer than 10 percent of the deaths are directly and solely related to covid-19. 378 00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:18,220 In fact, these other conditions contributed to the mortality. 379 00:25:18,860 --> 00:25:23,060 But having said that, you could take the converse and say if they didn't get covid,... 380 00:25:23,059 --> 00:25:25,299 they be alive today? And my answer would be yes. 381 00:25:25,299 --> 00:25:29,220 So I take the mortality rate of covid-19 as being serious. 382 00:25:29,859 --> 00:25:36,220 There certainly could have been a tendency to code the death certificates towards covid-19. 383 00:25:36,740 --> 00:25:39,779 That probably did happen. There are experts evaluating that. 384 00:25:39,779 --> 00:25:42,179 Dr. Henry Ely from Oregon is one. 385 00:25:42,179 --> 00:25:44,019 He's a leading expert in evaluating that. 386 00:25:44,539 --> 00:25:46,339 That's not my area of expertise. 387 00:25:46,899 --> 00:25:51,779 Like I say, I've had patients myself with covid-19 who've died, and I'm convinced they 388 00:25:51,779 --> 00:25:55,180 died of the illness. And if they didn't get covid-19, they'd still be here today. 389 00:25:55,339 --> 00:25:56,740 And that's happened in my family. 390 00:25:56,740 --> 00:26:01,099 So I I wouldn't want the listeners to think I'm being cavalier with mortality in... 391 00:26:01,099 --> 00:26:06,500 It's a potentially lethal illness, but it's heavily related to age and comorbidities. 392 00:26:06,740 --> 00:26:08,220 I have to get this out of the way. 393 00:26:08,220 --> 00:26:09,460 I mean, there's so much to ask. 394 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:10,940 Let me just state it bluntly. 395 00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:15,220 And I've heard your thoughts on this before, but I don't know if they've changed at all. 396 00:26:15,220 --> 00:26:20,420 Have you seen convincing evidence that the virus has been isolated? 397 00:26:20,539 --> 00:26:25,420 Have Koch's postulates been followed and satisfied? 398 00:26:25,460 --> 00:26:28,100 I mean, have you seen it under an electron microscope? 399 00:26:29,019 --> 00:26:32,380 Well, you know, people have always asked that, you know, they have to kind of see i... 400 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:38,340 The best way to actually truly understand if it's there is through full genomic... 401 00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:40,259 So I've been working very closely. 402 00:26:40,259 --> 00:26:44,820 There's many labs that do this, by the way, many of the local community health... 403 00:26:45,259 --> 00:26:46,779 But I've been working closely with Dr. 404 00:26:46,779 --> 00:26:53,259 Sabine Hazen out in Ventura, California, and she assures me the virus is readily and fully 405 00:26:53,259 --> 00:26:55,299 sequencable. The virus does exist. 406 00:26:55,299 --> 00:26:57,660 SARS-CoV-2 does exist. 407 00:26:58,379 --> 00:27:04,460 It is, you know, it's base pair sequences for all the components, the spike protein, the 408 00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:08,180 nucleocapsid, polymerase, everything else does really exist. 409 00:27:08,339 --> 00:27:14,700 Believe it or not, the virus is more readily retrievable in terms of an intact unit tha... 410 00:27:14,700 --> 00:27:16,259 sequenced from the GI tract. 411 00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:17,620 And the Chinese learn this. 412 00:27:17,819 --> 00:27:19,380 They actually do anal swabs. 413 00:27:19,620 --> 00:27:22,539 And Dr. Hazen actually analyzes stool specimens. 414 00:27:23,420 --> 00:27:25,500 Many have said, and I know Dr. 415 00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:29,100 Dolores Cahill and said, we can't find the whole virus out of the nose. 416 00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:33,620 Well, that's true, because in our nasal pharyngeal tract, we have immune cells. 417 00:27:33,779 --> 00:27:35,940 We have immunoglobulins, IgA. 418 00:27:36,140 --> 00:27:40,740 And so the virus is quickly attacked and is broken down in the nose and mouth. 419 00:27:40,819 --> 00:27:42,500 So we can't find the virus intact. 420 00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:46,579 But any of your listeners who've had COVID-19 know that some people actually have 421 00:27:46,579 --> 00:27:49,859 gastrointestinal symptoms, and that's the virus working its way out of the body. 422 00:27:49,900 --> 00:27:53,299 What do you think the vector of transmission is? 423 00:27:53,299 --> 00:27:58,819 If it's not a symptomatic spread, then how are people getting it? 424 00:28:00,339 --> 00:28:06,019 The Chinese have shown in a variety of publications that the virus is spread through 425 00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:10,660 respiration and it's also spread through body secretions. 426 00:28:10,980 --> 00:28:12,620 OK, so that's how it's spread. 427 00:28:12,860 --> 00:28:14,300 So it's close contact. 428 00:28:14,300 --> 00:28:17,660 It's in close breath contact with another person. 429 00:28:18,220 --> 00:28:23,580 You can imagine, you know, body fluids, things of this nature, kissing, oral... 430 00:28:23,779 --> 00:28:29,300 secretions. And so the Chinese have shown in other studies supported that 85 percent 431 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:30,940 of spread occurs in the home. 432 00:28:31,220 --> 00:28:32,660 That's actually where it happens. 433 00:28:32,779 --> 00:28:35,259 Only 15 percent of spread occurs outside the home. 434 00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:41,220 And yet we've seen our government agencies and press focus relentlessly and spread 435 00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:44,259 outside the home in congregate settings, etc. 436 00:28:44,500 --> 00:28:46,339 Eighty five percent is within the home. 437 00:28:46,460 --> 00:28:51,700 And I can tell you, I have managed enough patients to know that if you take any... 438 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:57,099 when someone gets COVID-19, if susceptible, the majority of people in that home will 439 00:28:57,099 --> 00:28:58,539 also get COVID-19. 440 00:28:58,740 --> 00:29:02,859 We try to open the windows, get as much fresh air as possible, try to isolate. 441 00:29:02,899 --> 00:29:07,419 But it's nearly impossible to isolate your way around someone in the home with COVID-19. 442 00:29:07,579 --> 00:29:10,779 Now, fortunately, not everybody gets COVID-19. 443 00:29:11,019 --> 00:29:15,379 And the CDC and others estimate, and I've done this myself for testimony, that 15 444 00:29:15,379 --> 00:29:17,059 percent of us are not susceptible. 445 00:29:17,259 --> 00:29:19,859 Fifteen percent of people cannot get COVID-19. 446 00:29:20,339 --> 00:29:23,979 And this is that from the very beginning of the pandemic, because they may have had 447 00:29:24,179 --> 00:29:30,539 prior cross-reacting antibodies and other immune defense mechanisms from other 448 00:29:30,579 --> 00:29:31,579 coronaviruses. 449 00:29:32,059 --> 00:29:34,220 And then it's been shown interestingly again, Dr. 450 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:40,420 Hazen out in California has shown that the microbiome in the human body has a certain 451 00:29:40,420 --> 00:29:44,339 configuration. And some people actually have great immune defense and they are not 452 00:29:44,339 --> 00:29:45,619 susceptible to COVID-19. 453 00:29:45,899 --> 00:29:50,059 In other words, you feel there have to be symptoms present of some kind in order for 454 00:29:50,059 --> 00:29:51,819 spread to occur. Do you agree with Dr. 455 00:29:51,819 --> 00:29:52,619 Yeeden about that? 456 00:29:53,139 --> 00:29:54,259 Yeah, I agree with that. 457 00:29:54,259 --> 00:29:59,819 And any any one of us who's come on with a cold and I've had so many patients tell 458 00:29:59,819 --> 00:30:02,779 me, you know, I can't tell if I have allergies or if I have a cold. 459 00:30:03,139 --> 00:30:06,539 And that, I think, is the moment of spread for a lot of people. 460 00:30:06,539 --> 00:30:11,460 They just start with some nasal congestion, maybe a little sinus pressure or a little 461 00:30:11,460 --> 00:30:13,299 fever. That's the moment of spread. 462 00:30:13,379 --> 00:30:18,179 I should just ask you just very quickly, how did you fall upon the idea of using 463 00:30:18,179 --> 00:30:22,579 hydroxychloroquine? I mean, had you come upon that idea before President Trump 464 00:30:22,579 --> 00:30:23,579 mentioned it? 465 00:30:24,259 --> 00:30:28,899 You know, I was probably late to the overall evaluation of hydroxychloroquine, but I 466 00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:34,420 learned later on that I think around 2005 or 2006, hydroxychloroquine was shown to 467 00:30:34,420 --> 00:30:39,780 really powerfully reduce viral replication in cell culture studies. 468 00:30:39,780 --> 00:30:44,420 So how drugs are evaluated is typically we have a cell in a test tube and then 469 00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:49,420 actually put the virus in there and see what drugs actually impair the virus ability 470 00:30:49,420 --> 00:30:54,180 to replicate. But study after study showed hydroxychloroquine was pretty powerful in 471 00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:55,380 reducing replication. 472 00:30:55,380 --> 00:30:57,900 And it did it by three mechanisms of action. 473 00:30:58,420 --> 00:31:01,500 First, hydroxychloroquine changes the pH of lysosomes. 474 00:31:01,660 --> 00:31:06,820 So when the virus comes into the cell, the virus needs a certain pH to survive inside 475 00:31:06,820 --> 00:31:08,420 the little vesicle inside the cell. 476 00:31:08,540 --> 00:31:10,300 So hydroxychloroquine changes that. 477 00:31:10,620 --> 00:31:16,900 Hydroxychloroquine also allows zinc, which is in the fluid around cells, to go into 478 00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:20,700 the cell. And zinc itself inhibits the polymerase of the virus. 479 00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:24,019 So it inhibits one of the major replicating enzymes of the virus. 480 00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:28,660 Then lastly, hydroxychloroquine changes the cell surface receptors, what's called 481 00:31:29,019 --> 00:31:31,900 toll-like receptors or innate immunity. 482 00:31:32,139 --> 00:31:34,819 So hydroxychloroquine is kind of a triple win. 483 00:31:34,980 --> 00:31:38,180 And on top of that, it's a proven anti-inflammatory. 484 00:31:38,180 --> 00:31:41,619 So it's used in systemic lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. 485 00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:44,859 It also works for other intracellular infections like malaria. 486 00:31:45,299 --> 00:31:49,859 So hydroxychloroquine was always kind of first and foremost thought to be kind of 487 00:31:49,859 --> 00:31:52,299 the drug for COVID-19. 488 00:31:52,299 --> 00:31:54,700 Now, we knew it couldn't you couldn't handle everything. 489 00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:56,579 It couldn't handle the inflammation or the blood clotting. 490 00:31:56,819 --> 00:31:59,740 But we knew it would be an important part of the combination. 491 00:32:00,019 --> 00:32:04,700 We have over 300 supportive studies where things went wrong with hydroxychloroquine. 492 00:32:04,940 --> 00:32:09,220 I think part was politicized when President Trump thought that he said it could be a 493 00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:14,220 game changer. And there's a paper by the first author named Barry, who actually showed 494 00:32:14,220 --> 00:32:18,659 that those who went against hydroxychloroquine were much more likely t... 495 00:32:18,700 --> 00:32:22,779 inclined to go against President Trump, which was which was basically what we thought was 496 00:32:22,779 --> 00:32:26,540 going on. But it was really in the world disturbing things happened. 497 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:31,300 The United States appropriately stockpiled hydroxychloroquine. 498 00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:33,740 So did Australia. So did other countries. 499 00:32:34,540 --> 00:32:36,700 But we saw these incredibly crazy things. 500 00:32:37,019 --> 00:32:41,900 Instead of stockpiling it and then distributing it out so we could use it, it... 501 00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:46,300 restricted. In the United States, we had an emergency use authorization, which was 502 00:32:46,299 --> 00:32:51,379 effectively a restriction to inpatient use, which which which honestly didn't make 503 00:32:51,379 --> 00:32:52,700 sense. This is an approved drug. 504 00:32:52,740 --> 00:32:54,220 I mean, I use it in my practice every day. 505 00:32:54,220 --> 00:32:57,779 I didn't need a restriction on just inpatient use. 506 00:32:58,259 --> 00:33:03,819 We saw in Australia early in April, they put on the books in one of the provinces 507 00:33:03,819 --> 00:33:08,980 in Australia, a law that said if a doctor tried to use hydroxychloroquine, that that 508 00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:11,579 doctor could be punished, including imprisonment. 509 00:33:11,699 --> 00:33:16,539 In terms of its use for this particular disease, the jury is pretty much out. 510 00:33:16,579 --> 00:33:17,339 It doesn't work. 511 00:33:17,779 --> 00:33:19,939 Like what? I mean, we use this all the time. 512 00:33:19,939 --> 00:33:24,419 And in France, it was over the counter and they actually took it from over the counte... 513 00:33:24,419 --> 00:33:25,379 they made a prescription. 514 00:33:25,699 --> 00:33:30,139 So hydroxychloroquine, our most useful drug, it was appropriately stockpiled. 515 00:33:30,139 --> 00:33:31,299 We should be ready to go. 516 00:33:31,379 --> 00:33:32,939 In fact, things got tense. 517 00:33:32,939 --> 00:33:37,299 And if you look at the fall, the spring of 2020, there was a massive use of... 518 00:33:37,299 --> 00:33:40,980 in the United States. And if you recall, in Italy, where things got out of control, they 519 00:33:40,980 --> 00:33:45,259 had this crazy curves. We actually our curves were pretty well controlled in the spring 520 00:33:45,259 --> 00:33:48,620 of 2020 because of the broad use, in my view, of hydroxychloroquine. 521 00:33:48,740 --> 00:33:49,940 But it doesn't stop there. 522 00:33:50,339 --> 00:33:54,980 There was a disturbing report of the second largest hydroxychloroquine plant outside of 523 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:57,380 Taipei basically burning to the ground. 524 00:33:58,779 --> 00:34:04,099 We had reports coming out of Africa that hydroxychloroquine was being burned by... 525 00:34:04,099 --> 00:34:06,660 types of operatives and pharmacies across Africa. 526 00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:14,980 And I have to tell you, we started to get the idea that treating COVID-19 with... 527 00:34:15,579 --> 00:34:18,260 was something that somebody somewhere didn't want. 528 00:34:18,539 --> 00:34:23,700 And then their shoe really fell on this when a fraudulent paper was published in Lancet, 529 00:34:24,539 --> 00:34:25,980 one of the leading medical journals. 530 00:34:26,340 --> 00:34:30,860 And this was a paper that claimed to have data on tens of thousands of people through 531 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:35,099 December, January and February, of which who had data like this with detailed drug data 532 00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:39,019 and people hospitalized in their 40s, which we never hospitalized people in their 40s, 533 00:34:39,380 --> 00:34:42,139 claiming that hydroxychloroquine didn't benefit patients. 534 00:34:42,139 --> 00:34:44,739 In fact, hydroxychloroquine was associated with harm. 535 00:34:45,139 --> 00:34:46,779 Well, Lancet published this paper. 536 00:34:46,779 --> 00:34:49,460 Anybody looked at it in two seconds knew it didn't make sense. 537 00:34:49,460 --> 00:34:54,339 It looked like a fake paper, which I can tell you, I'm the editor of two major journals. 538 00:34:54,579 --> 00:34:56,219 I did editorial work this morning. 539 00:34:57,500 --> 00:34:58,860 I've done this for 20 years. 540 00:34:58,940 --> 00:35:06,180 I am telling you, as an editor, a fraudulent paper would never get past my eyes as an... 541 00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:08,940 Never. We have an editor, associate editors. 542 00:35:08,980 --> 00:35:10,340 We have two or more reviewers. 543 00:35:10,579 --> 00:35:14,059 We have a very tight processing to make sure the data are correct. 544 00:35:14,660 --> 00:35:17,099 Lancet let this hang up there for two weeks. 545 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:22,700 And then really with no apology or fanfare, they said, well, we can't verify the data. 546 00:35:22,700 --> 00:35:26,059 It came from a source called Surgesphere, which no one seemed to know about. 547 00:35:26,140 --> 00:35:28,780 I do know that that paper had a great influence. 548 00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:32,220 I remember my colleague saying, wait a minute, you can't use hydroxychloroquine. 549 00:35:32,660 --> 00:35:33,780 It's dangerous. 550 00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:37,540 And it was around that time the FDA indicated a second thing. 551 00:35:37,660 --> 00:35:43,420 So not only do we have the original emergency authorization that restricted the hospital, 552 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:47,220 now the FDA rescinded that emergency use authorization. 553 00:35:47,580 --> 00:35:49,980 And then the FDA said, don't use it at all. 554 00:35:50,180 --> 00:35:52,460 Don't use it for inpatient or outpatient. 555 00:35:52,820 --> 00:35:58,500 OK. And so, you know, I was basically I had a phone call with Peter Novaro 556 00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:04,019 at the White House. Peter was trying to work on some important commerce issues and said, 557 00:36:04,019 --> 00:36:09,099 you know, listen, you know, is there support for a renewed emergency use authorization? 558 00:36:09,099 --> 00:36:11,860 So we could at least use it broadly inpatient, outpatient and finish our research 559 00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:13,019 because our research depended. 560 00:36:13,340 --> 00:36:18,059 If not, we are going to have to get an investigation of drug applications on ever... 561 00:36:18,219 --> 00:36:20,780 That broke my back back in March. 562 00:36:21,340 --> 00:36:24,900 And so I led that effort and sure enough, it was shot down. 563 00:36:25,340 --> 00:36:28,900 And the FDA after that shortly said, don't use hydroxychloroquine at all. 564 00:36:29,300 --> 00:36:32,300 Period. I think that came out in July of 2020. 565 00:36:32,539 --> 00:36:37,220 And that still hangs over the entire treatment community. 566 00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:40,619 Since that time, there have been randomized trials. 567 00:36:41,099 --> 00:36:44,700 There's been five randomized trials on an inpatient basis. 568 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:47,820 Those randomized trials were very small. 569 00:36:48,099 --> 00:36:51,099 Only two of them were placebo controlled. 570 00:36:51,420 --> 00:36:55,579 They had biased endpoints where the doctor decided how much oxygen patients got. 571 00:36:55,579 --> 00:36:57,059 So these trials were not high quality. 572 00:36:57,380 --> 00:37:03,460 And I can tell you the prospective placebo control trials include less than 750... 573 00:37:03,739 --> 00:37:08,980 They concluded neutrality, that hydroxychloroquine late in the hospital wa... 574 00:37:09,059 --> 00:37:10,500 Didn't harm patients was neutral. 575 00:37:10,940 --> 00:37:16,179 And people have taken that conclusion from that small body of trials to say broad brush. 576 00:37:16,460 --> 00:37:18,259 Don't use hydroxychloroquine across. 577 00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:24,740 And in academic institutions today and in hospitals today, I can tell you... 578 00:37:25,060 --> 00:37:29,260 And other studies, Henry Ford did a Whopper study, thousands of patients. 579 00:37:29,420 --> 00:37:35,940 They consented everybody and they carefully showed when hydroxychloroquine was used... 580 00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:47,820 Any and all of the randomized placebo controlled trials, which is the gold stand... 581 00:37:48,140 --> 00:37:53,780 We've reached out to Henry Ford Health System for a response to Dr. Fauci's testimony, b... 582 00:37:54,019 --> 00:38:02,860 Now, despite his criticism of the study, Dr. Fauci says he remains optimistic that a... 583 00:38:03,059 --> 00:38:13,900 So as we sit here today, hydroxychloroquine, one of the most valuable drugs in COVID-19... 584 00:38:13,980 --> 00:38:16,660 Americans are not treated with hydroxychloroquine. 585 00:38:17,820 --> 00:38:20,059 America has to wake up right here right now. 586 00:38:20,059 --> 00:38:22,900 We are getting buried and we need home treatment. 587 00:38:23,460 --> 00:38:26,700 Dr. Jha, let me have you jump in here. 588 00:38:27,620 --> 00:38:33,780 My problem here is not so much that we have a different reading of the literature, which... 589 00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:45,300 It is this idea that there is this broad conspiracy across hundreds of thousands of... 590 00:38:46,019 --> 00:38:53,460 the Infectious Disease Society of America, we're all in on this conspiracy to prevent... 591 00:38:53,740 --> 00:38:57,539 As you might imagine, pulling off a conspiracy like that would be extremely... 592 00:38:58,060 --> 00:39:02,300 Doctors and academics are way too disorganized to pull off such a thing. 593 00:39:02,740 --> 00:39:06,100 By the way, I never use the word, I never use the word conspiracy. 594 00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:06,860 I understand, Senator. 595 00:39:06,860 --> 00:39:09,900 I don't think anybody on this, so quit, quit using that word. 596 00:39:10,180 --> 00:39:10,420 Okay. 597 00:39:10,420 --> 00:39:10,700 Okay. 598 00:39:10,780 --> 00:39:21,900 There's something, something has happened where we have not devoted any time or ener... 599 00:39:21,940 --> 00:39:25,380 And that's called early intervention, early treatment. 600 00:39:28,659 --> 00:39:35,340 What I am struck with is how people in their minds can come up with the same conclusion. 601 00:39:35,539 --> 00:39:43,660 How can hospital administrators in their mind come up with a conclusion that they should... 602 00:39:44,100 --> 00:39:45,420 How did that get in their mind? 603 00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:47,180 The CDC is not asking for it. 604 00:39:47,380 --> 00:39:49,539 The CDC and the FDA say it's voluntary. 605 00:39:50,019 --> 00:39:51,420 Everyone's saying it's voluntary. 606 00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:57,260 How does the human mind say, okay, let's, we see this happening. 607 00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,019 It looks like the vaccines are failing. 608 00:40:00,140 --> 00:40:02,340 The safety data doesn't look good at all. 609 00:40:02,660 --> 00:40:04,059 Let's mass vaccinate people. 610 00:40:04,219 --> 00:40:13,259 How does that decision get in the mind of executives to roll that down to their... 611 00:40:13,579 --> 00:40:16,059 What is the psychology of that? 612 00:40:16,299 --> 00:40:20,579 What's in the minds of leaders in New York to say, okay, we got these vaccines. 613 00:40:20,659 --> 00:40:21,980 It looks like they're failing. 614 00:40:22,299 --> 00:40:23,779 We're in an outbreak of Delta. 615 00:40:24,539 --> 00:40:27,779 The safety data look not good at all. 616 00:40:27,779 --> 00:40:30,259 We haven't had, we haven't had a single safety report yet. 617 00:40:30,660 --> 00:40:35,660 Let's ask everybody in New York to just take the vaccine in order to go to a restaurant. 618 00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:37,980 That is the question. 619 00:40:38,020 --> 00:40:39,700 What is in the minds of people? 620 00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:46,300 What is in the minds of a doctor to tell a pregnant woman to take a vaccine like this? 621 00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:50,060 It is, I think the best way to characterize it. 622 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:51,260 It's a disturbia. 623 00:40:51,660 --> 00:40:54,340 It is maybe a group neurosis. 624 00:40:54,780 --> 00:40:58,660 It is something that's come over the minds of people all over the world. 625 00:40:58,699 --> 00:41:06,579 And I tell you, whatever's going on is going on in the tiniest island of the Philippine... 626 00:41:06,619 --> 00:41:07,779 It's all the same. 627 00:41:07,940 --> 00:41:11,019 It's come over the entire world.