1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,600 Hi there, this is Robert Malone with yet another episode of Fallout with my friend 2 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:24,400 and colleague Jan Jekielek. 3 00:00:24,399 --> 00:00:29,079 Today, we're going to follow up on our prior discussions concerning the proposal called 4 00:00:29,079 --> 00:00:34,519 Diffuse that was submitted by EcoHealth Alliance and how that relates to what... 5 00:00:34,519 --> 00:00:37,200 Wuhan and the origin of the virus. 6 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,079 The other thing that we promised our viewers last time we would talk about was this phone 7 00:00:42,079 --> 00:00:46,879 caller or what was ultimately a series of phone calls with a mysterious figure that 8 00:00:46,879 --> 00:00:53,899 called to alert you that there was a novel coronavirus around in China and that there 9 00:00:53,899 --> 00:00:56,500 might be a team needed to deal with it. 10 00:00:56,500 --> 00:01:01,179 So I've been working in biodefense for years and years and one of the things about that 11 00:01:01,179 --> 00:01:04,859 is you have contact points with people in the intelligence community and one of those 12 00:01:04,859 --> 00:01:08,420 was Dr. Michael Callahan. 13 00:01:08,420 --> 00:01:10,099 Michael is an interesting character. 14 00:01:10,099 --> 00:01:17,019 He has deep ties with DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, and... 15 00:01:17,019 --> 00:01:18,019 the CIA. 16 00:01:18,019 --> 00:01:22,500 As best of my understanding is that he's a retired CIA officer. 17 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:28,459 I've collaborated with him in the past on issues such as Zika and the Ebola vaccine 18 00:01:28,459 --> 00:01:31,799 development during the West African outbreak. 19 00:01:31,799 --> 00:01:36,819 He knew me as somebody who was skilled at pulling together teams to respond to... 20 00:01:36,819 --> 00:01:40,659 requirements, particularly in the biodefense area. 21 00:01:40,659 --> 00:01:45,180 And out of the blue, I got a call from him on January 4th of 2020 saying there was a 22 00:01:45,180 --> 00:01:51,420 novel coronavirus afoot in Wuhan and told me that I should spin up a team to address 23 00:01:51,420 --> 00:01:57,060 the potential risks associated with this pathogen that might well go worldwide. 24 00:01:57,060 --> 00:02:03,219 And then subsequent calls, as I've understood, have direct relevance to this... 25 00:02:03,219 --> 00:02:05,900 proposal we're talking about. 26 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:10,900 Maybe I'll get you to tell me because you're the one who got the call, but he denied, 27 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:15,420 he said that his people didn't believe this was a lab origin. 28 00:02:16,259 --> 00:02:22,979 Yes, as the story broke, that this wasn't an origin from a natural source like a pangolin 29 00:02:22,979 --> 00:02:23,979 or a bat. 30 00:02:23,979 --> 00:02:28,819 It wasn't coming out of the live animal market at Wuhan, but rather it came from 31 00:02:28,819 --> 00:02:33,419 this institute that I'd never heard of before, the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a... 32 00:02:33,419 --> 00:02:34,799 an engineered pathogen. 33 00:02:34,799 --> 00:02:40,000 So I asked Michael directly, what about all this news that's coming out about this... 34 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,259 being an engineered pathogen? 35 00:02:42,259 --> 00:02:48,060 And Michael told me that his people, I'm not sure what that means, his people had 36 00:02:48,060 --> 00:02:53,739 gone over the sequence carefully and there was absolutely no evidence that it was... 37 00:02:53,739 --> 00:02:58,500 Now in retrospect, that appears to be some of the propaganda that was deployed at the 38 00:02:58,500 --> 00:03:02,500 time, as we now know from Sherry Markson's reporting. 39 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:08,780 Major revelations today on the origins of COVID-19 and exactly what happened inside 40 00:03:08,780 --> 00:03:11,280 the Wuhan Institute of Virology. 41 00:03:11,319 --> 00:03:18,240 There was this concerted effort to deny and redirect the world community away from the 42 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,479 thesis that this was a laboratory origin virus. 43 00:03:21,479 --> 00:03:27,000 I remember back in April of 2020, when we did a documentary tracking down the origins 44 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,000 of coronavirus. 45 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:33,120 And it was very clear at the time that a lab origin was extremely likely, especially since 46 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,479 at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, we had the Batwoman, Xi Jiangli, who was I think 47 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:44,919 the world's foremost authority on bat coronaviruses, which this looked very simi... 48 00:03:44,919 --> 00:03:46,639 We knew that at the time. 49 00:03:46,639 --> 00:03:52,199 Now here's the thing that we didn't know, and this is what has come out in this U.S. 50 00:03:52,199 --> 00:03:56,759 Right to Know reporting, is that Ralph Barak and Peter Daschek, we're talking EcoHealth 51 00:03:56,759 --> 00:04:04,919 Alliance top virologists in the country, they have this very, very close relationship with 52 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:05,919 the Batwoman. 53 00:04:05,919 --> 00:04:11,919 So that's what's fascinating about this report, that long ago was pulled off of th... 54 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:12,919 servers. 55 00:04:12,919 --> 00:04:15,839 Remember DARPA used to be where Michael Callahan worked. 56 00:04:15,839 --> 00:04:21,319 The Right to Know group was able to pull this information out, and what it reveals is more 57 00:04:21,319 --> 00:04:30,240 granularity concerning this proposal called Diffuse, which specifically proposed the... 58 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:37,519 of a furin cleavage site into the spike protein of a SARS-like virus. 59 00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:44,199 And it had a series of experiments proposed that certainly would have led to the creation 60 00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:48,960 logically of this virus that we now call SARS-CoV-2. 61 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:55,079 So with this new Freedom of Information disclosure in data that has been provided,... 62 00:04:55,079 --> 00:05:00,479 to look underneath the covers of the proposal development effort, the correspondence... 63 00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:06,000 Daszak and Xi Jinping and Ralph Barak as they're building this proposal that they're 64 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:07,719 going to submit to DARPA. 65 00:05:07,719 --> 00:05:10,759 I just want to highlight a little bit about what we're seeing here. 66 00:05:10,759 --> 00:05:15,039 DARPA, which is of course the Pentagon, the U.S. military. 67 00:05:15,039 --> 00:05:16,039 At a minimum. 68 00:05:16,039 --> 00:05:17,039 Right. 69 00:05:17,039 --> 00:05:20,439 Barak and Daszak, according to these emails that are on Earth, they're basically trying 70 00:05:20,439 --> 00:05:26,439 to downplay the role of the Wuhan Institute of Virology in this grant. 71 00:05:26,439 --> 00:05:31,959 So they're applying for a grant to the U.S. military for research which clearly has a 72 00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:33,600 military application. 73 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,920 And they're essentially trying to hide the fact that they're going to do this research 74 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,159 under the auspices of the People's Liberation Army. 75 00:05:41,159 --> 00:05:45,959 So they're hiding who the beneficiary of the research is from DARPA. 76 00:05:45,959 --> 00:05:47,360 Absolutely. 77 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,560 But are they aware of it? 78 00:05:49,639 --> 00:05:57,079 The last key question is, EcoHealth Alliance just naive about the role of the PLA and 79 00:05:57,079 --> 00:06:01,680 all scientific research of this type within China? 80 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,840 Or are they intentionally obscuring it as they're preparing to submit this proposal 81 00:06:07,840 --> 00:06:09,360 to DARPA? 82 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:16,319 Remember that as I revealed two years ago plus, there has been a position within the 83 00:06:16,319 --> 00:06:23,719 U.S. military that they wanted to push funds to the Wuhan Institute of Virology in order 84 00:06:23,719 --> 00:06:35,920 to somehow co-opt the researchers there, like Shen Jingli, to not do research which would 85 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:40,759 potentially be weaponized, which is in and of itself naive. 86 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:49,399 By funding this and assisting in technology transfer from University of North Carolina 87 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:56,439 through EcoHealth Alliance to WIV, this would allow the intelligence community in the... 88 00:06:56,439 --> 00:07:04,360 States to at least have some visibility into what's going on in China in bio warfare... 89 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:14,840 Post-2012, the CIA lost a number of agents that it had due to a massive security breach 90 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,439 on the China side. 91 00:07:16,439 --> 00:07:22,280 Ostensibly, we're looking to try to get eyes on things like bio weapons research, which 92 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:30,120 of course, it's unimaginable given a Chinese Communist Party military doctrine that the 93 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:35,480 Wuhan Institute of Virology, there wasn't military-grade research going on there in 94 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:36,040 the first place. 95 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:41,560 So one of the theories that I've kind of gleaned from sources is that this was kind... 96 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:46,439 opportunity. Like everybody kind of knows what's going on. They show up bearing good... 97 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:54,040 technology that simply was not known by the Chinese researchers at the time and kind of 98 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,959 too good to pass up, perhaps. And at the same time, of course, they knew, hey, this has to 99 00:07:59,959 --> 00:08:05,079 be a U.S. operation. They wouldn't just come giving us this stuff casually. 100 00:08:05,079 --> 00:08:10,359 Yeah, so it seems to have been a quid pro quo. And I've had this verified by four... 101 00:08:10,359 --> 00:08:15,639 sources. So it's not just your intuition. I'm positive that this is the case, is that there 102 00:08:15,639 --> 00:08:23,639 was some sort of a transaction there in which there was transfer of biologic materials into 103 00:08:23,639 --> 00:08:29,879 Wuhan Institute of Virology from a number of NATO partners, transfer of humanized mice 104 00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:36,519 through EcoHealth Alliance to the WIV that was apparently funded by NIAD for what's... 105 00:08:36,519 --> 00:08:45,639 serial passage experiments that further humanized these viruses, and reporting,... 106 00:08:45,639 --> 00:08:52,360 technology, all kinds of information exchanged back and forth under this naive... 107 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:59,800 we can somehow manipulate or modify the activities that are going on in terms of 108 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:07,480 bio warfare research within the CCP. That seems to have been at the core of what... 109 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:13,560 But what we have with this new reveal from these Freedom of Information Act requests 110 00:09:14,359 --> 00:09:22,039 is explicit documentation and kind of the internal communication of Barak and DASC 111 00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:28,919 gaming the system, the proposal system, by manipulating the language in the proposal 112 00:09:29,799 --> 00:09:38,839 to mitigate the risk that U.S. oversight in terms of proposal review at DARPA, 113 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:47,960 U.S. oversight would detect their plans to have this research outsourced and done at 114 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:54,280 Wuhan Institute of Virology under what's called Biologic Safety Laboratory 2... 115 00:09:54,759 --> 00:10:00,519 These are basically the conditions, it's almost open bench research. Undergraduates, 116 00:10:00,519 --> 00:10:08,440 I used to work in BSL 2 as an undergraduate at UC Davis routinely. This requires no... 117 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:15,240 training. This kind of work really should be done at BSL 4 containment. This is the... 118 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:22,040 moon suits, etc., because this is a respiratory virus. Apparently Ralph Barak... 119 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:27,080 said, well, mice don't sneeze and there's very little chance that this is going to g... 120 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:34,040 Essentially, Barak is advocating together with DASC that in order to reduce the cost... 121 00:10:34,039 --> 00:10:39,799 proposal, they're intentionally hiding the level of containment that this research is... 122 00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:46,279 performed at. They want to perform it at BSL 2 to save money and they want to hide that... 123 00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:54,519 So what you see in this transaction is this typical ethic within EcoHealth Alliance that 124 00:10:54,519 --> 00:11:01,000 exists across the entire bio research community, that people are entitled to do... 125 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:07,799 that the risks are minimal, and it's okay to skirt the rules and to minimize those risks 126 00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:13,720 in order to get the money and proceed with the work that they kind of feel entitled t... 127 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,679 The thing that really strikes me here, and I was thinking this sort of undermines my... 128 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:26,759 actually, it seems like all these researchers view themselves as all being part of the s... 129 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,720 They just simply, the American or the Western researchers, 130 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:38,200 they don't grasp that the CCP doesn't have partners in crime, so to speak. 131 00:11:39,879 --> 00:11:49,799 This is really all part of a bigger story, I think, which is who is really behind this... 132 00:11:49,799 --> 00:11:56,120 that was done at the Wuhan Institute of Virology? Of course, the popular press and 133 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:01,879 various books have purported that it's Tony Fauci. That Tony Fauci is the puppet master, 134 00:12:01,879 --> 00:12:07,399 but a good case can be made that Tony Fauci was almost roadkill in the middle of this. 135 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:15,159 He was a player, he certainly was central in the cover-up, but was he really the driver... 136 00:12:15,159 --> 00:12:21,560 the whole logic of the gain-of-function research? But as this information is comin... 137 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:29,959 more, it really looks like it's Peter Daszek, the head of EcoHealth Alliance, that if... 138 00:12:29,959 --> 00:12:36,599 the puppet master in the development of this virus, he's guiding this, he has the contacts 139 00:12:36,599 --> 00:12:44,199 with Gates, he has the international contacts, he seems to be the kingpin in th... 140 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:51,400 But who is ultimately gaining this potentially incredibly lethal technology, 141 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,280 skills, and so forth? I think there might be another puppet master here. 142 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:07,400 The key question, I think, is Daszek aware of the fact that he's being used by the People's 143 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:13,240 Liberation Army and the CCP, is what you're pointing out. That's something that I thin... 144 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:22,840 have to discover. And what's kind of the backstory behind all of this is this... 145 00:13:23,560 --> 00:13:32,120 engagement right now with Bob Cadlich, who seems to be very busy putting out the... 146 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:38,360 he's sorry for his role in all of this and in the cover-up of the origins of the virus, 147 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:47,080 but seems to be pointing to EcoHealth Alliance and Peter Daszek as the real acto... 148 00:13:47,879 --> 00:13:53,480 So it pushes the responsibility away from the government. Essentially the storyline that's 149 00:13:53,480 --> 00:14:01,320 evolving is that you had EcoHealth Alliance, Daszek, and Barrick manipulating the... 150 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:07,240 and not being open and transparent, and the government going along thinking these... 151 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:15,080 highly skilled researchers were to be depended upon and believed. And this is... 152 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:21,080 government right now or the administrative state to take the position that, well, we... 153 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,440 That seems to be kind of the way this is playing out. 154 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,960 I have a feeling this isn't the end of new disclosures around the origin of the virus, 155 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:33,159 which is something we'll absolutely keep covering here on the show. 156 00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:36,519 And now we're going to take a short break. And when we're back, we're going to look 157 00:14:36,519 --> 00:14:43,240 at a little bit of viral history, something incredibly relevant to the recent COVID... 158 00:14:44,919 --> 00:14:51,559 Let's talk a little bit about the background and justification for the influenza and... 159 00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:57,159 preparedness capability that the U.S. government and really the WHO has developed. 160 00:14:57,559 --> 00:15:06,600 This has absolutely everything to do, as it turns out, with the 1918 influenza pandemi... 161 00:15:07,719 --> 00:15:12,279 I guess, as the official story goes, killed how many millions of people? 162 00:15:12,279 --> 00:15:17,079 I don't even remember the number, but it's a major event. It killed more young people 163 00:15:17,079 --> 00:15:23,639 than it did old people. But we've been told a false narrative. And that is this narrative 164 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:31,480 that in 1918, as the soldiers came back from World War I, they brought a highly pathogenic 165 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:38,600 influenza virus from the trenches back across the world. Now, the way the story was told... 166 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:46,120 first outbreaks were in Spain. And so it was called or termed the Spanish flu, which wa... 167 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,279 convenient because we were all able to say it was those people in Spain that was... 168 00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:55,799 It turns out that that story of a highly pathogenic flu virus was false. 169 00:15:57,319 --> 00:16:05,799 What happened, in fact, was that, yes, there was an influenza virus. It appears to have... 170 00:16:05,799 --> 00:16:11,399 in the Midwest, was brought by American recruits to the trenches of World War I in... 171 00:16:11,399 --> 00:16:18,279 Fields, amplified there, and then absolutely brought back to the states and... 172 00:16:18,679 --> 00:16:23,639 after armistice, when the soldiers and the war fighters returned to their respective... 173 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:30,360 And there was this huge outbreak of an infectious disease of some kind that caused 174 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:37,799 a massive death toll all across the world. But the thing that killed people wasn't... 175 00:16:37,799 --> 00:16:45,159 It wasn't H1N1. That story that we've all been told was false. And this is really... 176 00:16:45,159 --> 00:16:51,079 the current situation because that false narrative has been used to justify annual 177 00:16:51,079 --> 00:16:57,079 influenza vaccination, the entire infrastructure development for flu vaccine... 178 00:16:57,079 --> 00:17:02,919 place here to the tune of billions of dollars by the U.S. government. And really, it's b... 179 00:17:02,919 --> 00:17:10,119 to justify the entire bio-defense complex in the United States and worldwide, WHO, etc. 180 00:17:10,919 --> 00:17:20,519 How do we know that it was false? There's been other concepts or other proposals as ... 181 00:17:20,519 --> 00:17:23,879 caused the death toll, but how do we know that it wasn't the virus? 182 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:30,519 So what was done is a study was done at NIH by one of their top influenza researchers, 183 00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:37,319 who's also a pathologist, who went back and was able to get pathology specimens from... 184 00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:42,200 the Walter Reed Institute of Research, very much focused on infectious disease, 185 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:48,439 had these old pathology sections embedded in paraffin that they were able to dig up 186 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:55,480 and look at. So those are recut and reexamined, these lung samples from soldie... 187 00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:02,839 at that time. And what they found was that these sections revealed the signs of damage 188 00:18:02,839 --> 00:18:09,959 to the upper airway in these soldiers, consistent with a viral pneumonia and then 189 00:18:09,959 --> 00:18:16,119 a secondary bacterial pneumonia with the associated damage that is what really... 190 00:18:16,679 --> 00:18:24,119 So these soldiers had damaged lung tissue that enabled the bacteria to colonize and... 191 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,919 throughout the lungs, and that's what ended up killing many of them. And this was... 192 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:33,480 through a retrospective analysis of these old pathology specimens. 193 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,160 Why is this particularly significant, or why does this 194 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,360 break the narrative about how we're supposed to deal with pandemics? 195 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:48,039 So we've been told again and again that we have to be very fearful of these novel... 196 00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:55,480 come out, and particularly novel respiratory viruses. Of course, we have RSV and... 197 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:02,200 and now this great fear about the white lung pathogen that's circulating in China, etc. 198 00:19:03,079 --> 00:19:09,960 So the logic has been that there are these highly mutating respiratory viruses that are 199 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:16,279 circulating, particularly with flu, between poultry and pigs and humans, and that this is 200 00:19:16,279 --> 00:19:23,559 just a fermentation chamber for creation of new risks. When it turns out that what rea... 201 00:19:23,559 --> 00:19:30,679 was an opportunistic bacterial pneumonia that took off because we didn't have antibiotics. 202 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,559 If we had had the antibiotics that we have now, this never would have happened. 203 00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:41,079 There never would have been this major tragedy. And so the whole storyline that's... 204 00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:46,440 that we have to be very fearful of these respiratory viruses that are going to cause a 205 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:53,079 massive death toll like happened in 1918 is a false narrative that's been promoted that... 206 00:19:53,079 --> 00:19:58,199 wasn't grounded in science, it was grounded in fear. You're just making me think of th... 207 00:19:58,199 --> 00:20:05,639 this hashtag on Twitter, it was hashtag two tablets, like people that are treated with 208 00:20:05,639 --> 00:20:12,679 azithromycin and zinc, I think. This could have actually stopped the pandemic because... 209 00:20:12,679 --> 00:20:17,480 was there wasn't bacterial pneumonia that followed SARS-CoV-2 infection. 210 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:26,440 Yeah, and so that goes back to work at the Institute of Virology that's in Marseilles. 211 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:33,160 Early on, Dieter Raup promoted this idea of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin, 212 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:38,039 which have synergistic effects as being very effective at shutting down the risk of 213 00:20:38,039 --> 00:20:44,360 severe disease and death associated with this. Now that relates to the other... 214 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:52,119 of the story of 1918, which is that in 1918 there was a hot new drug that had just... 215 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:58,039 come onto the market that was very effective at suppressing fever. And there was very... 216 00:20:58,599 --> 00:21:04,359 about this new drug in terms of how to dose it, but it seemed to be the new miracle drug 217 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:10,679 for stopping fever. Fever, of course, was associated with this combined viral and... 218 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:17,720 And like often happens at a time of great stress and tragedy, physicians began using... 219 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:23,640 drug because it seemed to have some benefit, and they started dosing to effect. In othe... 220 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:29,320 they would give some of this new drug and it would reduce the fever in some patients, a... 221 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,799 patients that it wasn't reducing the fever, they would give more. The problem with thi... 222 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,559 the drug always has a therapeutic window. There is a point at which they're toxic. T... 223 00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:44,519 effective up to that. And often drugs have more open therapeutic windows where there'... 224 00:21:44,519 --> 00:21:49,639 range of safe dosing. And some have very narrow therapeutic windows where you have ... 225 00:21:49,639 --> 00:21:55,720 precise where you give the drug. And it turns out that the drug aspirin, which is the ne... 226 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:01,640 drug, circa 1918, has that problem. If you give too much aspirin, you kill people. An... 227 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:07,880 out that it's well documented now that a significant fraction of those deaths were... 228 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:15,079 physicians overdosing with aspirin. Now, how is that relevant to the current outbreak?... 229 00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:22,279 in northern Italy, there was awareness that chloroform was being used to treat fever. And 230 00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:28,920 northern Italy, there was awareness that chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine were be... 231 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:35,319 by the Chinese physicians to treat SARS-CoV-2 and keep people from dying. They got this 232 00:22:35,319 --> 00:22:41,480 information about the effectiveness, particularly of hydroxychloroquine, and... 233 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:49,879 particularly northern Italian patients, often quite elderly, with this drug,... 234 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,800 And they got some effect, but for those patients that weren't responding well, 235 00:22:53,800 --> 00:23:00,200 they kept upping the dose. And in fact, it's well documented that they, just like the... 236 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:06,360 during 1918, exceeded the therapeutic window for hydroxychloroquine and started causing 237 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:13,720 hydroxychloroquine toxicity, which is absolutely a problem. And much more so tha... 238 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:19,160 by the way. Ivermectin has a very large therapeutic window. Hydroxychloroquine, no... 239 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:26,920 And so just like what happened in 1918, the idea if some is good, more is better,... 240 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:32,440 the excess mortality that we observed throughout the West, but particularly in... 241 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:38,440 on when physicians were still learning the proper way to treat SARS-CoV-2. And really... 242 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:44,840 thinking, in the heat of the moment, set up a dosing protocol that was too high. So that's 243 00:23:45,159 --> 00:23:52,839 the alternative. It's hard to separate malfeasance or ill intent from incompetence. 244 00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:59,319 But I can tell you that in the heat of battle, which is really what this kind of... 245 00:23:59,319 --> 00:24:05,720 when you have these early stages of an outbreak, you have the fog of war descend.... 246 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:14,439 think clearly. There's so much stress. There's so much excitement and adrenaline ... 247 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:22,840 up that it's really easy to make mistakes. And it underscores the need for calm,... 248 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:31,799 to provide oversight in these early phases of an outbreak and serve as a check, an... 249 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:40,120 assessment of whether the steps that are being taken are appropriate or whether... 250 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:45,799 other medical care providers and researchers need to kind of step back for a moment and... 251 00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:49,879 look at the history of what they're working with and whether they are doing the right... 252 00:24:51,239 --> 00:24:57,559 In our next episode of Fallout, Jan and I will be taping at CPAC in Washington, DC a... 253 00:24:57,559 --> 00:25:03,239 Times booth on Media Row. We'll also be streaming and recording throughout the day... 254 00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:10,200 and the International Crisis Summit on February 23rd, 24th, and 25th. Concurrentl... 255 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:16,440 Monday, the 26th, we'll be at the U.S. Senate. Senator Ron Johnson will be hostin... 256 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,400 on the things that have been hidden during the COVID crisis.