1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,879 In retrospect, it's pretty amazing that Barack Obama got as far as he did. 2 00:00:05,879 --> 00:00:11,000 In 2004, the summer of 2004, Barack Obama gave the keynote address to the Democratic 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:13,160 Convention in Boston. 4 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,960 And when he walked to the podium, probably only a small percentage of people in the room 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,179 knew how to pronounce his name. 6 00:00:20,179 --> 00:00:22,140 He was totally unheard of. 7 00:00:22,140 --> 00:00:23,839 No one knew Barack Obama. 8 00:00:23,839 --> 00:00:28,240 At the time, he was a state senator in Illinois. 9 00:00:28,239 --> 00:00:33,079 Four years later, he once again spoke to the Democratic Convention, but this time as the 10 00:00:33,079 --> 00:00:34,079 nominee. 11 00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:36,519 Meteoric doesn't begin to describe it. 12 00:00:36,519 --> 00:00:37,519 How did this happen? 13 00:00:37,519 --> 00:00:41,560 Well, the outlines are fairly well known, though rarely talked about. 14 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,619 A small group of Democratic donors, mostly in Chicago, decided that Barack Obama was 15 00:00:45,619 --> 00:00:46,619 their guy. 16 00:00:46,619 --> 00:00:48,799 He was the vessel for their ambitions. 17 00:00:48,799 --> 00:00:50,019 They paid for his campaign. 18 00:00:50,019 --> 00:00:53,280 They paved the way for his rise. 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,560 He spent two years pointlessly in the United States Senate preparing to run for president 20 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,080 in 2008, and of course, in the NT-1. 21 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,079 But the question was, who was this man? 22 00:01:04,079 --> 00:01:05,079 Where did he come from? 23 00:01:05,079 --> 00:01:09,560 What did he spend his life doing before he became president of the United States? 24 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:15,200 Well, the news media, whose job it is to answer those questions, spent the entire 0... 25 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,480 trying to keep you from knowing the answers. 26 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:23,240 By election day, most Americans knew only one thing about Barack Obama, other than he 27 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,400 was handsome and a good communicator. 28 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,219 Hope and change. 29 00:01:27,219 --> 00:01:33,620 But they knew nothing about him, his origins, what he believed, and legitimate questions 30 00:01:33,620 --> 00:01:40,260 about those facts were turned away, as they often are, with the claim, that's a... 31 00:01:40,260 --> 00:01:41,260 theory. 32 00:01:41,260 --> 00:01:42,260 You're crazy. 33 00:01:42,260 --> 00:01:43,259 Shut up. 34 00:01:43,259 --> 00:01:48,700 One of the most interesting moments in the 2008 campaign occurred when a man like Obama 35 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:54,460 himself came from out of nowhere to recount his experiences with Barack Obama the man. 36 00:01:54,459 --> 00:01:58,140 His name was Larry Sinclair, and he told an amazing story. 37 00:01:58,140 --> 00:02:04,059 He said that in 1999, he had encountered Barack Obama in Illinois, had sex with Barack 38 00:02:04,059 --> 00:02:07,539 Obama, and then used cocaine with him. 39 00:02:07,539 --> 00:02:12,419 Sinclair went on to make these claims publicly at the National Press Club in... 40 00:02:12,419 --> 00:02:15,780 to sign a sworn affidavit, and to take a lie detector test. 41 00:02:15,780 --> 00:02:16,780 But he was dismissed. 42 00:02:16,780 --> 00:02:19,539 In fact, he was attacked. 43 00:02:19,539 --> 00:02:24,979 The political bat of the claims out without refuting them. 44 00:02:24,979 --> 00:02:26,439 They're absurd. 45 00:02:26,439 --> 00:02:28,939 And the rest of the media followed suit. 46 00:02:28,939 --> 00:02:31,139 But the claims weren't absurd. 47 00:02:31,139 --> 00:02:34,859 We're not claiming they're true, but they were certainly credible. 48 00:02:34,859 --> 00:02:40,579 This was a firsthand account of Barack Obama's behavior by someone who was willin... 49 00:02:40,579 --> 00:02:42,899 a sworn affidavit to that effect. 50 00:02:42,899 --> 00:02:46,099 So the question is, whatever happened to Larry Sinclair? 51 00:02:46,099 --> 00:02:48,419 What's his life been like since? 52 00:02:48,500 --> 00:02:49,739 That's an interesting story. 53 00:02:49,739 --> 00:02:52,079 It turns out Larry Sinclair is still alive. 54 00:02:52,079 --> 00:02:53,079 He lives in Mexico. 55 00:02:53,079 --> 00:02:56,019 But today, he's in our studio, and we're happy to have him. 56 00:02:56,019 --> 00:02:57,299 Larry Sinclair, thank you so much. 57 00:02:57,299 --> 00:02:59,259 Thank you for inviting me. 58 00:02:59,259 --> 00:03:01,359 Where did you meet Barack Obama? 59 00:03:01,359 --> 00:03:03,339 It was by accident. 60 00:03:03,339 --> 00:03:10,939 I was in the Chicago area in 99 for Lee Duke's graduation from the Naval Academy. 61 00:03:10,939 --> 00:03:11,939 Who's Lee Duke? 62 00:03:11,939 --> 00:03:13,739 He's basically my godson. 63 00:03:13,739 --> 00:03:14,739 Okay. 64 00:03:14,739 --> 00:03:17,779 I had hired a limousine service. 65 00:03:18,340 --> 00:03:19,740 Did you live in Chicago then? 66 00:03:19,740 --> 00:03:20,740 No. 67 00:03:20,740 --> 00:03:22,259 I was actually living in Colorado. 68 00:03:22,259 --> 00:03:24,860 I had flown in the night before. 69 00:03:24,860 --> 00:03:25,860 Okay. 70 00:03:25,860 --> 00:03:32,020 So I had hired a limousine service, had made the driver aware that if Lee couldn't leave 71 00:03:32,020 --> 00:03:37,020 the base, because once they graduate, some of them actually get their assignments, and 72 00:03:37,020 --> 00:03:41,740 they're shipping out, and they can't leave the base, that I was still interested in... 73 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:43,259 out. 74 00:03:43,259 --> 00:03:47,699 And had asked the driver if he knew anybody that was available that might want to show 75 00:03:47,699 --> 00:03:49,979 me, you know, Chicago. 76 00:03:49,979 --> 00:03:51,899 And he said he did. 77 00:03:51,899 --> 00:03:52,899 Who was the driver? 78 00:03:52,899 --> 00:03:57,060 His name was Jamir Mottani. 79 00:03:57,060 --> 00:04:00,500 It was with Five Star Limo. 80 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:03,599 So you're just a guy who's in town for the night, and it sounds like you're looking 81 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:04,599 to party, actually. 82 00:04:04,599 --> 00:04:05,599 Yeah. 83 00:04:05,599 --> 00:04:06,599 That's what you're really saying. 84 00:04:06,599 --> 00:04:07,599 Yeah. 85 00:04:07,599 --> 00:04:12,699 Well, I was in town for a few nights, but yeah, I was definitely looking to party. 86 00:04:12,699 --> 00:04:13,899 Did you make that clear to the driver? 87 00:04:13,899 --> 00:04:14,899 Oh, yeah. 88 00:04:14,899 --> 00:04:15,899 Yeah. 89 00:04:15,899 --> 00:04:16,899 Oh, yeah. 90 00:04:16,899 --> 00:04:17,899 There was no misunderstanding. 91 00:04:17,899 --> 00:04:19,899 How direct were you about that? 92 00:04:19,899 --> 00:04:20,899 Extremely. 93 00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:21,899 Extremely. 94 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:22,899 Extremely. 95 00:04:22,899 --> 00:04:23,899 Okay. 96 00:04:23,899 --> 00:04:24,899 Yeah. 97 00:04:24,899 --> 00:04:26,500 There was no doubt what I was looking for. 98 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:27,819 Okay. 99 00:04:27,819 --> 00:04:34,300 And he picked me up at my hotel in Gurney and drove into Chicago, pulled up in a bar 100 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:39,919 outside, and there's this guy that's introduced to me as Barack Obama. 101 00:04:39,919 --> 00:04:42,539 It was literally that casual. 102 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:43,700 Had you ever heard of him? 103 00:04:43,700 --> 00:04:44,700 No. 104 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:45,700 Did the driver know him? 105 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:46,700 Yep. 106 00:04:46,700 --> 00:04:51,819 The driver definitely knew him because the driver said that he was a front. 107 00:04:51,819 --> 00:04:53,460 Interesting. 108 00:04:53,460 --> 00:04:55,100 How would the driver be friends with Barack Obama? 109 00:04:55,100 --> 00:05:05,700 I only found out later dealing with a reporter from Bloomberg News that apparent... 110 00:05:05,699 --> 00:05:14,500 company had been doing business with Tony Rescoe that at the time was somehow... 111 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:15,500 with Barack Obama. 112 00:05:15,500 --> 00:05:16,500 Was in Obama's orbit. 113 00:05:16,500 --> 00:05:17,500 Yeah. 114 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:18,500 Yes. 115 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:19,500 Interesting. 116 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:23,579 So he knew Barack Obama, and in his view, Barack Obama liked the same kind of party 117 00:05:23,579 --> 00:05:24,939 you were looking for. 118 00:05:24,939 --> 00:05:25,939 Yep. 119 00:05:25,939 --> 00:05:26,939 Okay. 120 00:05:26,939 --> 00:05:29,219 So sex and drugs and upwards. 121 00:05:29,219 --> 00:05:35,060 The sex part I wasn't so sure about until, of course, you make your move, but it became 122 00:05:35,139 --> 00:05:37,699 obvious very quick. 123 00:05:37,699 --> 00:05:43,459 The coke part I thought was interesting because of the way that I had brought it up. 124 00:05:43,459 --> 00:05:44,459 So I'm stepping on your story. 125 00:05:44,459 --> 00:05:50,139 So you pull up, and I apologize, so you pull up to this bar, the driver is basically... 126 00:05:50,139 --> 00:05:52,019 some dude for you to hang out with. 127 00:05:52,019 --> 00:05:53,019 Correct. 128 00:05:53,019 --> 00:05:54,019 There's this guy, Barack Obama. 129 00:05:54,019 --> 00:05:55,019 Have you ever heard of Barack Obama? 130 00:05:55,019 --> 00:05:56,019 Never. 131 00:05:56,019 --> 00:05:57,019 Never. 132 00:05:57,019 --> 00:05:58,860 We're having drinks. 133 00:05:58,860 --> 00:06:02,379 I mentioned the fact that I could use something to wake up. 134 00:06:02,379 --> 00:06:04,300 I was extremely exhausted. 135 00:06:04,540 --> 00:06:05,540 So you went into the bar. 136 00:06:05,540 --> 00:06:06,540 Yes, sir. 137 00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:07,540 What kind of bar was it? 138 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:08,900 I'm trying to remember. 139 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:10,500 I've been trying to remember the name. 140 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:18,259 I know that the glasses had three Xs on them because I remember taking one home for a 141 00:06:18,259 --> 00:06:20,060 friend of mine. 142 00:06:20,060 --> 00:06:22,819 But I mean, generally characterize it. 143 00:06:22,819 --> 00:06:25,620 It was a working class bar, gay bar, strip bar. 144 00:06:25,620 --> 00:06:34,019 It was upscale, quiet, wasn't really that, that really didn't have a lot of energy 145 00:06:34,019 --> 00:06:35,019 to it. 146 00:06:35,019 --> 00:06:39,300 It was more relaxed, more like a lounge as opposed to somewhere where people would go 147 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:46,899 and get loud and crazy, which made it easier to talk. 148 00:06:46,899 --> 00:06:51,860 But like I said, when I brought up the fact that I could use something to wake up, he 149 00:06:52,020 --> 00:06:56,900 immediately knew what I was referring to, had made it clear that I was looking for 150 00:06:56,900 --> 00:07:03,740 coke and I really was and had made the suggestion that he knew where we could get... 151 00:07:03,740 --> 00:07:05,460 left to go get it. 152 00:07:05,460 --> 00:07:06,460 Interesting. 153 00:07:06,460 --> 00:07:08,620 Did he say what he did for a living? 154 00:07:08,620 --> 00:07:13,620 No, I had no idea that he was a representative in the Illinois House. 155 00:07:13,620 --> 00:07:16,180 I had no idea he was in politics. 156 00:07:16,340 --> 00:07:22,220 I just knew that he was supposedly married and at the time was going through some issues 157 00:07:22,220 --> 00:07:23,220 with the marriage. 158 00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:24,620 Did he said that? 159 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:26,579 That was made clear. 160 00:07:26,579 --> 00:07:30,060 Did he say what kind of issues? 161 00:07:30,060 --> 00:07:31,060 No. 162 00:07:31,060 --> 00:07:32,060 Remember? 163 00:07:32,060 --> 00:07:33,860 So you said, I'm looking for something to wake up. 164 00:07:33,860 --> 00:07:36,379 He knows you're referring to cocaine. 165 00:07:36,379 --> 00:07:37,500 I know where to get it. 166 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:38,540 What happens next? 167 00:07:38,540 --> 00:07:39,980 We get back in the limo. 168 00:07:39,980 --> 00:07:44,540 The driver takes us wherever it is that Barack had instructed him to take us. 169 00:07:44,620 --> 00:07:48,860 I had given Barack $250 to pay for coke. 170 00:07:48,860 --> 00:07:52,180 He gets out, comes back. 171 00:07:52,180 --> 00:07:58,300 I start putting a line on a CD tray to snort. 172 00:07:58,300 --> 00:07:59,620 And you're in the limo? 173 00:07:59,620 --> 00:08:00,620 Yep. 174 00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:01,620 Driving or parked? 175 00:08:01,620 --> 00:08:04,020 No, the driver's driving. 176 00:08:04,020 --> 00:08:10,660 I start to put a line on a CD tray and I just happen to notice that he pulls something 177 00:08:10,660 --> 00:08:13,300 else out of his pocket. 178 00:08:14,060 --> 00:08:17,180 I know he's got a little pipe and he's smoking. 179 00:08:17,180 --> 00:08:19,060 I don't have an issue with it. 180 00:08:19,060 --> 00:08:21,500 Some people smoke, some people snort. 181 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:22,500 Smoking the cocaine? 182 00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:23,500 Yes. 183 00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:30,699 So as I'm doing a line, I just start, this is the part where you kind of make your move 184 00:08:30,699 --> 00:08:33,100 to see where things are going. 185 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:38,019 I just started rubbing my hand along his thigh to see where it was going. 186 00:08:38,019 --> 00:08:42,820 It went the direction I had intended it to go. 187 00:08:43,340 --> 00:08:49,620 The night became somewhat active sexually and drug-wise in the limo. 188 00:08:49,620 --> 00:08:51,379 So you hit on him. 189 00:08:51,379 --> 00:08:52,780 Did he seem shocked by that? 190 00:08:52,780 --> 00:08:53,780 Not at all. 191 00:08:53,780 --> 00:08:54,780 Yeah. 192 00:08:54,780 --> 00:09:02,060 I mean, if you're smoking crack with a stranger in the back of a limo, you've got... 193 00:09:02,060 --> 00:09:05,060 things might go crazy places. 194 00:09:05,060 --> 00:09:08,300 Not only imagine it, I look at it this way. 195 00:09:08,300 --> 00:09:11,300 Look, I've done a lot of crazy things in my lifetime. 196 00:09:11,779 --> 00:09:16,699 I'm a pretty good judge of character and I pretty much know whether or not I can move 197 00:09:16,699 --> 00:09:19,339 in a certain direction with an individual. 198 00:09:19,339 --> 00:09:22,620 I didn't feel that I was going in the wrong direction. 199 00:09:22,620 --> 00:09:29,099 I just wasn't so sure how much I could trust the individual at first. 200 00:09:29,099 --> 00:09:32,259 And that was probably one of my bigger concerns. 201 00:09:32,259 --> 00:09:39,939 But the fact that I was already becoming somewhat buzzed, you kind of throw caution... 202 00:09:40,580 --> 00:09:41,580 You weren't sure you could trust the individual. 203 00:09:41,580 --> 00:09:42,580 What does that mean? 204 00:09:45,580 --> 00:09:50,460 When you meet someone out of the blue and you go to a level that you're doing drugs 205 00:09:50,460 --> 00:09:56,940 with or you're giving money to purchase drugs or even for sexual activity, you have to 206 00:09:56,940 --> 00:09:58,740 be sure that you can trust them. 207 00:09:58,740 --> 00:10:02,380 And when I say trust, I mean that you're not going to end up being robbed or that you're 208 00:10:02,380 --> 00:10:07,860 not going to end up having a knife stuck into you from one direction or another or that 209 00:10:07,980 --> 00:10:11,100 you're not going to pull up somewhere and all of a sudden the car door is going to 210 00:10:11,100 --> 00:10:14,340 open and you've got five people pulling you out of it. 211 00:10:14,340 --> 00:10:19,019 That's what I mean when I say trust someone. 212 00:10:19,019 --> 00:10:22,980 And you've been around at this point in your life, big time. 213 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:26,480 So probably not your first time in a situation like this. 214 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:27,580 Not at all. 215 00:10:27,580 --> 00:10:34,139 And that's why I said I pretty much know where I can go and at what point. 216 00:10:34,179 --> 00:10:39,699 So you start rubbing his leg and he's I mean, I think I would be totally blunt with you. 217 00:10:39,699 --> 00:10:43,699 Like a man who's not into gay sex would be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 218 00:10:43,699 --> 00:10:44,699 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 219 00:10:44,699 --> 00:10:45,699 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 220 00:10:45,699 --> 00:10:46,699 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 221 00:10:46,699 --> 00:10:47,699 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 222 00:10:47,699 --> 00:10:48,699 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, 223 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:54,220 you're right. I've had guys that I read wrong that would literally try to break your hand 224 00:10:54,220 --> 00:10:59,860 for sure. If you went in that route. So it's not like this was something that he wasn't 225 00:10:59,860 --> 00:11:05,340 into. It's not something that he was shocked by. Shocked by you don't get excited and 226 00:11:05,340 --> 00:11:10,340 you don't unbutton your pants and you don't just sit there and let it happen. Yeah. So 227 00:11:10,340 --> 00:11:16,780 it wasn't it definitely wasn't Perak's first time that much. I'm I'm absolutely certain 228 00:11:16,779 --> 00:11:23,980 of and I would almost be willing to bet you it wasn't as lost. So so you performed oral 229 00:11:23,980 --> 00:11:31,459 sex on you did in the drivers up front. Yep. And he's cool with this. The driver has the 230 00:11:31,459 --> 00:11:35,419 partition up. He didn't have a problem when he didn't put it down for any reason. I mean, 231 00:11:35,419 --> 00:11:38,899 he kind of set up the whole thing for this in the first place. Exactly. And I have a 232 00:11:38,899 --> 00:11:46,659 funny feeling he had no bones to pick with it as far as what took place. Yeah. So what 233 00:11:46,659 --> 00:11:52,819 happened after afterwards? I actually went back to my hotel. I had specifically asked 234 00:11:52,819 --> 00:11:57,699 that he drop Barack off first. But for some reason he and Barack chose that they would 235 00:11:57,699 --> 00:12:02,980 drop me off at the hotel first and then he would take brought. So Barack actually made 236 00:12:02,980 --> 00:12:10,339 the drive out to Gurney which is a suburb outside of Chicago to the hotel for me to 237 00:12:10,339 --> 00:12:15,500 be dropped off. What hotel was it? It was the comfort inn in Gurney. Oh, it sounds... 238 00:12:15,740 --> 00:12:23,139 Well, you have to remember it was 99. And it was close to the Great Plain Great Lakes 239 00:12:23,139 --> 00:12:32,820 Naval Facility. Yeah. But I got dropped off. They left. The next day was somewhat... 240 00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:40,019 because he ends up showing up at my hotel room, which I thought was somewhat weird. 241 00:12:40,980 --> 00:12:47,579 He wanted some more. So when you say he showed up, he just. He showed up. I mean, ... 242 00:12:47,579 --> 00:12:54,419 warning. I was in the room. There's a knock on the door. I opened the door and he's... 243 00:12:54,419 --> 00:13:01,259 there. And he's standing there with more coke and he comes in and it was just like a quick, 244 00:13:01,259 --> 00:13:06,740 you know, rehash or rerun from the night before. Exact same program. Exact same... 245 00:13:06,740 --> 00:13:13,220 he smoking again? So Barack Obama smokes crack and then you perform sex on him. And 246 00:13:13,220 --> 00:13:19,139 the like I said, the only reason I had come out in about it is I had reached out to the 247 00:13:19,139 --> 00:13:25,139 campaign even in 2007 only because I saw all these kids getting excited about it. 248 00:13:25,139 --> 00:13:36,060 OK, wait, just so how did that end? Like same way. You get off, you finish smoking, you 249 00:13:36,059 --> 00:13:46,899 leave. Like thanks bye. What did you think of him? I thought it was interesting. I thought 250 00:13:46,899 --> 00:13:55,019 he was definitely a con. But what do you mean by that? Well, in my life at that point, you 251 00:13:55,019 --> 00:14:01,500 made it clear I had already been around. Yeah, big time. Yeah. So, you know, when... 252 00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:07,899 are doing things because they actually really enjoy it or they're sincere, they're looking 253 00:14:07,899 --> 00:14:13,820 for a connection or they're doing something because they're looking for an in or they're 254 00:14:13,820 --> 00:14:21,740 looking for a hook or it's a game. So for me, I felt that it was a game for him. It 255 00:14:21,740 --> 00:14:26,980 was like, OK, what am I going to get out of it? Or is there something I can get out of 256 00:14:26,980 --> 00:14:33,460 it other than just, you know, the sexual part? Right. And lucky for me, I wasn't going 257 00:14:33,460 --> 00:14:39,220 back to Chicago anytime soon, so it really didn't matter. So you were left with a bad 258 00:14:39,220 --> 00:14:49,060 taste in it, Ralph? Something. Yeah. Yeah. Did you talk to him again? I did not. In 259 00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:54,340 fact, I. And did you have any idea, even though you had sex with him twice, you did... 260 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:58,180 with him, watched him smoke crack twice. You had no idea who he was. I had no idea who 261 00:14:58,180 --> 00:15:06,740 he was until I'm sitting in my house in Tequila, Noguera, Mexico, in 2004. And he... 262 00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:13,540 that stage in Boston in the DNC convention. And I literally hit the floor. I just hit 263 00:15:13,540 --> 00:15:17,940 the floor and was. Wait, so you're watching the Democratic convention from Mexico. I was 264 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:24,580 And the guy that smoked crack in your comfort in with you. I was laughing so hard. And you 265 00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:33,620 were sure it was him. I was absolutely positive. How? I don't forget people I've... 266 00:15:33,620 --> 00:15:39,700 forget people I have spent time with. I just don't. And just to just to restate, because 267 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:45,380 I think you affirmed this, but he used his real name. Yes. He comes up Barack or Barry. 268 00:15:45,460 --> 00:15:53,460 Barack Barack. And so did the driver. And that's why at first, when everybody was... 269 00:15:53,460 --> 00:15:58,820 him as Barry, I just didn't understand or catch on, because, like I said, I didn't k... 270 00:15:58,820 --> 00:16:06,899 about him. Other than the fact that, hey, you know, you you hook up, you know, today it's 271 00:16:06,899 --> 00:16:13,620 Grindr. Back then it was, you know, the limo driver. Yeah. A limo driver or a bartender, 272 00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:21,379 you know, you ask and somebody knows somebody or somebody doesn't. Amazing. Amazing. So... 273 00:16:21,379 --> 00:16:25,379 sitting there in Mexico watching this and you think that's the guy I had sex with who... 274 00:16:25,379 --> 00:16:31,299 crack it with me. Yeah. What do you think? Like I said, I just started cracking. I... 275 00:16:31,299 --> 00:16:35,860 I had even pointed out to some friends of mine that were at the house that night. An... 276 00:16:35,860 --> 00:16:41,700 them, you're not going to believe this. I said, I blew this guy twice, 277 00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:49,379 you know, and they just start cracking up. But that's the thing about me. I've never... 278 00:16:49,379 --> 00:16:55,379 the closet. I've never hit. I mean, I'm always very direct and blunt. And, you kno... 279 00:16:55,379 --> 00:17:06,420 just like. This is unreal, you know, and I had no idea that he was going to run, you... 280 00:17:07,140 --> 00:17:15,460 But I was back from Mexico, but it was a strange feeling sitting there watching him... 281 00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:22,579 that stage and realizing who he was. So what did you do? You said you reached out to th... 282 00:17:22,579 --> 00:17:29,939 Well, I didn't do anything in 2004. But when he announced his run for 2008, I did reach... 283 00:17:29,939 --> 00:17:38,099 to the campaign in late 2007 because I had seen a lot of these college kids talking... 284 00:17:38,099 --> 00:17:45,939 thrilled they were, how there was a candidate who was completely honest about his entire... 285 00:17:46,019 --> 00:17:52,420 his drug use, you know, what he did when he was in school, you know, the constant back... 286 00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:58,019 one minute is, yes, I did cocaine when I was younger or no, I never did cocaine, but I... 287 00:17:58,019 --> 00:18:06,100 weed. So I just simply pointed out that all I was asking was, look, why don't you just... 288 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:13,539 out and say, I did coke and I've done it as recently as 1999. You know, just tell the... 289 00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:20,339 put it out there and be honest and let it stay as the truth rather than this back an... 290 00:18:22,659 --> 00:18:29,139 Never did hear anything back from them immediately. Who did you reach out to? Do ... 291 00:18:29,139 --> 00:18:35,940 I reached out to actually David Axelrod's office in Chicago. I'm trying to remember ... 292 00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:40,740 because it was actually three letters. And did you say I had sex with Barack Obama? 293 00:18:40,740 --> 00:18:47,700 No. This is the interesting part. My first contact with the campaign never mentioned 294 00:18:47,700 --> 00:18:57,059 the sex whatsoever. That was actually brought to my attention by someone who eventually... 295 00:18:57,059 --> 00:19:02,660 out to me in late 2007, claiming to be with the campaign, but wasn't with the campaign. 296 00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:07,940 What do you mean that was pointed out to you? So you never told anyone in the Obama... 297 00:19:07,940 --> 00:19:13,059 you had sex with Barack Obama? Not in 2007, no. Interesting. But they knew? Yep. 298 00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:22,019 How? Who? Well, that's weird. I'm assuming Barack himself because the phone calls tha... 299 00:19:22,019 --> 00:19:29,140 in late 2007 came from a gentleman that I have repeatedly identified as Donald Young. 300 00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:38,100 And it was Donald Young who had mentioned to me that the campaign was not going to... 301 00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:44,820 the sex and the drug interaction. And I was somewhat taken back because, like I said, 302 00:19:44,820 --> 00:19:52,980 I had never mentioned sex to the campaign at all at that point. I had in 2008, but I ha... 303 00:19:53,059 --> 00:19:58,500 2000. Okay. That is amazing. And I want to get to who Donald Young was in just a minu... 304 00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:04,579 apologize for being a bad interviewer, but let me just ask the obvious question. What... 305 00:20:04,579 --> 00:20:11,620 like on crack? Actually, and I hate to say this because some people are going to thin... 306 00:20:11,620 --> 00:20:18,660 crazy. I knew a lot of people that smoked it because I was in Miami in the early 80s wh... 307 00:20:18,660 --> 00:20:29,460 became quite popular. Similar to a friend of mine that I knew in Miami, it gets extreme... 308 00:20:30,019 --> 00:20:43,620 calm, almost euphoric. And then as it starts to come down, the twitching and the looking, 309 00:20:43,619 --> 00:20:50,019 anything that looks white sitting on the seat or the floor, you assume is another 310 00:20:50,019 --> 00:20:59,139 piece that fell off that you can pick up and smoke. But while he was high, pretty much ... 311 00:20:59,139 --> 00:21:07,299 Pretty controlled. Pretty controlled, euphoric, talkative, but not really saying... 312 00:21:08,259 --> 00:21:11,460 So it was like his presidency. A lot like it. 313 00:21:13,379 --> 00:21:16,899 Was it your impression? And of course, you wouldn't, strictly speaking, no, 314 00:21:16,899 --> 00:21:20,019 but was it your impression that this was the first time you'd ever smoked crack? 315 00:21:20,019 --> 00:21:29,779 No. No. You don't, first of all, you don't buy crack, get in a limo and have a pipe i... 316 00:21:29,779 --> 00:21:35,859 pocket if it's the first time you smoked crack. You just don't. 317 00:21:37,460 --> 00:21:43,220 That makes sense. So I've read about your story, to the extent it's been written about, 318 00:21:43,220 --> 00:21:52,980 not very much. But I'd never read that Donald Young, this man, Donald Young, called you 319 00:21:54,899 --> 00:21:57,539 and told you that he knew you'd had sex with Barack Obama. 320 00:21:57,539 --> 00:22:05,940 That was the contact in late 2007 that I had that originally came under the guys that t... 321 00:22:07,059 --> 00:22:10,180 part of the Obama campaign. So who was Donald Young? 322 00:22:10,180 --> 00:22:15,940 Donald Young was a choir director and a school teacher. He was a choir director at... 323 00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:22,740 Wright's church in Chicago, the same church that Barack Obama went to. He was also a v... 324 00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:28,019 gay black man, but very well respected. Did you know him? 325 00:22:28,019 --> 00:22:35,779 I had never met him. I had not even realized that the person who was communicating with... 326 00:22:35,779 --> 00:22:42,980 killed until a good two months after. So I'm going to get to that. So Donald 327 00:22:42,980 --> 00:22:48,900 Young is the choir director at Jeremiah Wright's church. And is it publicly confir... 328 00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:55,620 Barack Obama? Oh, yes. Donald Young's own mother has repeatedly said that she feels... 329 00:22:55,620 --> 00:23:04,180 died to protect Barack Obama. It's just interesting that Donald Young would have... 330 00:23:04,180 --> 00:23:09,220 working directly for the campaign that we know of. Exactly. But somehow he has a cop... 331 00:23:09,220 --> 00:23:14,660 letter. It sounds like maybe Donald Young was on cleanup duty. Somehow he has my phone... 332 00:23:14,660 --> 00:23:19,620 Exactly. And that's exactly what it was. Because like I said, the first calls were, 333 00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:25,060 it was, I was led to believe that he was with the campaign. The last conversation that I... 334 00:23:25,060 --> 00:23:30,420 with Donald Young, he had actually come clean and said that he had been asked to call me 335 00:23:31,140 --> 00:23:37,940 and that his job was to get as much information from me as far as who I had... 336 00:23:37,940 --> 00:23:48,019 given any information to, and to get to them. He had told me to be careful, to watch... 337 00:23:48,019 --> 00:23:53,620 and to understand that the Barack Obama campaign was not in any way, shape, or for... 338 00:23:53,620 --> 00:24:00,100 acknowledge anything or come out about anything. And he had made it clear that he... 339 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:04,820 for quite some time and had had an intimate relationship with Barack for quite some time. 340 00:24:04,819 --> 00:24:11,379 He told you that? Yep. And that's when I knew that I could at least trust what I was bei... 341 00:24:13,379 --> 00:24:17,139 Originally, I had made it clear I didn't feel comfortable with the phone call because 342 00:24:17,139 --> 00:24:23,619 something just didn't seem right. But after a couple of calls, it started to all fall in... 343 00:24:24,259 --> 00:24:29,139 And I had said the same thing to myself. Wait, so you didn't know Donald Young... 344 00:24:29,139 --> 00:24:33,139 Nope. It sounds like you're not very political anyway. You weren't. 345 00:24:33,140 --> 00:24:40,020 I wasn't at the time. And you were just annoyed that Obama was talking about cocai... 346 00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:44,100 about it. I was extremely annoyed. But the sex part had nothing to do with it. No. 347 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:47,380 Then Donald Young, who you don't know, never heard of, calls up and says, 348 00:24:47,380 --> 00:24:51,220 by the way, I know you had sex with Barack Obama. I did too. Yep. Pretty much. 349 00:24:54,259 --> 00:24:56,820 I mean, this is a longer conversation which we're going to have in a minute, but I mean, 350 00:24:57,460 --> 00:25:02,420 Obama has a wife and kids and he's telling America what a great family man he is. Is... 351 00:25:02,660 --> 00:25:05,140 you've seen this a lot. What do you think of that? 352 00:25:05,140 --> 00:25:11,779 Well, in 2008, I made it clear that Obama was having marital problems in 1999 and everybody 353 00:25:12,820 --> 00:25:18,019 in the world said that I was crazy, didn't know what I was talking about. And yet, wh... 354 00:25:18,019 --> 00:25:24,660 six months ago, Barack Obama comes out and tells the world that exactly what I said w... 355 00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:31,700 In 1999, he and Michelle came very close to divorce. Really. 15 years later, what I sa... 356 00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:37,940 the truth, but 15 years earlier, I'm a liar and a fraud. It's interesting how things... 357 00:25:38,740 --> 00:25:45,460 come out. But yes, believe me, I've seen, I've known guys that were completely happi... 358 00:25:45,460 --> 00:25:52,980 that will screw around with another man on a weekly basis and think nothing of it. 359 00:25:53,779 --> 00:25:59,700 Huh. Is it your sense that that's who Obama is, just transactional, or that he's... 360 00:25:59,779 --> 00:26:05,460 or what is this? No, my feeling that Barack Obama is probably, 361 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:15,860 he's definitely bi. I think there is a lot of transactional qualities to him, 362 00:26:15,860 --> 00:26:22,500 because I think whatever he does, it is looking for a hook or looking for a benefit. 363 00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:26,819 Yeah. That's consistent with his public persona, too, I would say. 364 00:26:27,779 --> 00:26:32,419 So Donald Young calls you, you actually end up, sounds like you kind of like and trust... 365 00:26:32,419 --> 00:26:37,220 Young. I did. Did he say how long he'd had a relationship with Donald? He had just said 366 00:26:37,220 --> 00:26:43,379 that they had been intimate for years. Intimate for years. And what happened to... 367 00:26:43,379 --> 00:26:48,659 Donald Young was shot dead in his apartment, second floor in Chicago, Illinois. I think... 368 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:58,100 December 23rd of 2007. According to the police report and the death certificate, 369 00:26:58,100 --> 00:27:06,100 multiple gunshot wounds, close range, no forced entry, second floor apartment, 370 00:27:06,900 --> 00:27:14,019 yet not a single resident in the building heard a single shot, but yet they can hear... 371 00:27:14,019 --> 00:27:20,500 that's fired in the street outside. Jeremiah Wright announces that Donald Young's dead 372 00:27:21,379 --> 00:27:27,379 earlier that morning, even before it was announced, even before he was declared dead. 373 00:27:28,180 --> 00:27:34,180 I mean, a lot of it just didn't make sense. This is all public and you can look this u... 374 00:27:35,299 --> 00:27:39,299 it's still on the internet. Tell us about Donald Young's mother. 375 00:27:40,259 --> 00:27:48,339 Norma Jean Young actually is a former Chicago Police Department employee. Really? Really... 376 00:27:48,980 --> 00:27:59,379 worked for the Chicago PD. I had spoken with his sister Lorraine shortly after I realized 377 00:27:59,379 --> 00:28:05,700 that he was the gentleman that I had been speaking with. There were people at the time 378 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:13,299 that were attempting to have Lorraine and other members of Donald's family file... 379 00:28:13,299 --> 00:28:18,580 against me with Chicago because they wanted me arrested. They were trying to get the... 380 00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:25,220 say that I was trying to con them or something. To my knowledge, they never did... 381 00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:31,539 But at the same time, I continued to respect Lorraine and the rest of the family. 382 00:28:31,539 --> 00:28:39,139 But Mrs. Young had finally come out and told David Nelson, who was a reporter that I kn... 383 00:28:39,139 --> 00:28:46,819 Minnesota, that she was convinced that Donald had been killed, that his death was to... 384 00:28:46,819 --> 00:28:55,220 his friend Obama. And she confirmed that they had in fact been extremely close for years. 385 00:28:55,220 --> 00:29:01,220 Did she confirm that they had had sex, Obama and Donald Young? 386 00:29:01,220 --> 00:29:06,740 Her confirmation wasn't referencing or she did not specifically say that they were... 387 00:29:06,740 --> 00:29:10,740 She just simply said that they had been intimate friends for years. 388 00:29:11,539 --> 00:29:15,140 But she believed the Obama campaign was responsible? 389 00:29:15,140 --> 00:29:22,339 She believed that his death was due to the fact that he was a member of the family. 390 00:29:22,339 --> 00:29:31,699 His death was due to protecting Barack Obama. And I made the same argument that 391 00:29:33,299 --> 00:29:37,619 people said, well, how are you accusing Barack? I said, I'm not accusing Barack of... 392 00:29:38,259 --> 00:29:43,619 But I said, I'm willing to bet my life that Barack Obama and Jeremiah are right, both. 393 00:29:43,699 --> 00:29:52,659 No, or have knowledge of who killed Donald Young. There is no doubt in my mind about... 394 00:29:52,659 --> 00:29:57,139 Well, this was a guy who was clearly going to be the next leader of the world. 395 00:29:58,179 --> 00:30:02,259 People kill each other over insurance claims, over bar fights. There's a lot at stake here. 396 00:30:02,259 --> 00:30:07,219 I have no knowledge of this. I'm not alleging a murder by the Obama campaign or its allies, 397 00:30:07,219 --> 00:30:10,579 but it's not. It's not a crazy thing to wonder, obviously. 398 00:30:10,579 --> 00:30:15,220 No. And the only thing I, after I realized what had happened with Donald Young, the only 399 00:30:15,220 --> 00:30:21,059 thing I'd ever asked was the same thing that I had done. And I said, if you want to acc... 400 00:30:21,059 --> 00:30:27,779 of being crazy, release your phone records. Turn over your phone records from your pho... 401 00:30:27,779 --> 00:30:32,659 Turn over your phone records for the last year. I mean, it's that easy. If you've go... 402 00:30:32,659 --> 00:30:37,059 hide, it's not like they're going to be made public. Turn them over to authorities. Let 403 00:30:37,059 --> 00:30:46,500 them investigate. Let them look. But no. So now seems like a fair time to ask about your 404 00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:51,619 motive. So your initial motive was you were annoyed because you believed or you knew that 405 00:30:51,619 --> 00:30:57,460 Obama was lying about his drug use. Right. But then after the Donald Young exchange... 406 00:30:57,460 --> 00:31:03,460 brings up the sacks that you had with Obama, what was the point at which you decided, I... 407 00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:10,259 going to bring this to the country. I'm going to go public. Well, in January of 2008, after 408 00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:19,460 having contacted the campaign yet again, I had decided, you know what? Screw it. I'm... 409 00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:27,860 to make a YouTube video and put it up. Which I did. It wasn't because I was looking for... 410 00:31:27,859 --> 00:31:36,339 out of it. In fact, if I had even stopped long enough to anticipate the blowback and... 411 00:31:36,339 --> 00:31:43,699 consequences of speaking out, me being me, it probably would not have stopped me. It might 412 00:31:43,699 --> 00:31:52,099 have slowed me a little bit, but it would not have stopped me. But I figured if you're... 413 00:31:52,099 --> 00:31:57,619 to call him out, you can't call him out on part of it. And people said, well, why did... 414 00:31:57,619 --> 00:32:02,339 just talk about the drug use and leave the sex out? And I said, because if I said he... 415 00:32:02,339 --> 00:32:06,179 drugs and then you found out later it was drugs and sex, you would accuse me of lyin... 416 00:32:06,179 --> 00:32:14,739 didn't mention the sex. So my opinion was if you're going to tell the story, then you t... 417 00:32:14,739 --> 00:32:20,259 whole story and let the chips fall where they may. So that's exactly what I did. And so ... 418 00:32:20,259 --> 00:32:24,500 YouTube video. By the way, I looked for it last night. I couldn't find it. That's... 419 00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:34,259 gave access to my account to someone shortly after the polygraph test. And I was never... 420 00:32:34,259 --> 00:32:43,700 access back to it before the video was actually deleted. Are you serious? Oh, yea... 421 00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:50,740 access to the account and the video was deleted. Microsoft gave access to my Hotma... 422 00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:59,299 all of my emails were circulating the internet and vacation replies were set up ... 423 00:32:59,299 --> 00:33:05,620 telling people that I was busy giving blowjobs and would get back with them when... 424 00:33:08,980 --> 00:33:14,099 Man, they wanted Obama to be president. Yep. And they wanted me to be the biggest 425 00:33:14,819 --> 00:33:25,859 fraud and nutcase that ever existed. So I got to ask you, I mean, I wasn't there. I coul... 426 00:33:25,859 --> 00:33:31,939 assess what you're saying. I don't see any obvious motive for you for gain, financial... 427 00:33:31,939 --> 00:33:36,899 not going to get rich doing this. And in fact, you haven't. You've gotten impoveris... 428 00:33:36,899 --> 00:33:41,939 it. But like, if I'm a reporter, well, I was a reporter at the time. I remember thinkin... 429 00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:48,980 that's an interesting story. But it seemed like nobody in the media wanted to follow ... 430 00:33:48,980 --> 00:33:53,460 And some people like Ben Smith at Politico, who's a liar and a shill posing as a... 431 00:33:54,660 --> 00:33:58,660 I reread the piece last night that he wrote saying, oh, it's ridiculous. First graph, 432 00:33:58,660 --> 00:34:04,580 it's ridiculous. These claims. Well, I think I have an answer for why a lot of reporters 433 00:34:04,580 --> 00:34:10,420 did not want to follow up. And I think it would have something to do with what David... 434 00:34:10,420 --> 00:34:19,059 a old Chicago Sun-Times reporter or no Chicago Tribune reporter, John Crutzen. 435 00:34:20,099 --> 00:34:23,139 Axelrod had been a reporter in Chicago before he went into politics. 436 00:34:23,139 --> 00:34:29,700 Well, John Crutzen worked for the Chicago Tribune. And John Crutzen actually came to... 437 00:34:29,700 --> 00:34:36,180 Minnesota and sat down with me and talked with me. And John Crutzen had told me poin... 438 00:34:36,179 --> 00:34:41,940 before he had flown out, that he had spoken to Axelrod and that Axelrod had told him that 439 00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:47,619 they were aware of who I was and that it was their intentions to destroy me and that if... 440 00:34:47,619 --> 00:34:53,779 reporter had mentioned me to them, they would be completely cut off. And that outlet wou... 441 00:34:53,779 --> 00:34:59,059 completely cut off from access to the Obama campaign for the duration of the year. So I 442 00:34:59,059 --> 00:35:05,779 think that had a lot to do with why reporters didn't bring things up to the campaign... 443 00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:14,100 everybody wanted access to the new savior. Nobody wanted to be blackballed and denied... 444 00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:19,460 to a historic campaign. Yeah. But I mean, if the guy's running for president and credib... 445 00:35:19,460 --> 00:35:25,700 comes out that he's smoking crack and having sex with dudes, I mean, that seems like a... 446 00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:32,100 Well, it would be a story if the media really cared about telling people the truth about... 447 00:35:32,099 --> 00:35:37,860 Yeah. They're liars. And that Ben Smith is a liar. Oh, Ben Smith's more than a liar, 448 00:35:37,860 --> 00:35:43,219 but you're right. What do you mean more than a liar? He's a complete fraud. Ben Smith, 449 00:35:43,219 --> 00:35:49,139 you know, I hear people talking about grifters. Ben Smith to me as a grifter. Be... 450 00:35:49,139 --> 00:35:57,539 article saying that I had a 27 year criminal history, career criminal. And the funny th... 451 00:35:57,539 --> 00:36:02,420 is if you look my criminal history up, which I've published myself and provided from da... 452 00:36:03,380 --> 00:36:10,099 my criminal history goes from 1980 to 1986 and everything I've ever done, I've owned it. 453 00:36:10,099 --> 00:36:14,980 I've never wasted taxpayer money and any sentence I've ever been given. I've served. 454 00:36:17,059 --> 00:36:23,300 But he also said that I was a fugitive, that I was avoiding prosecution. I was trying to 455 00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:30,340 prevent from going to jail. None of that was true. But the media ran with it. Even Greta, 456 00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:37,620 even Greta linked to it and said that people ask me why I would not interview Larry... 457 00:36:37,620 --> 00:36:42,580 This is why. And she linked to Ben Smith's article. And notice his article was published 458 00:36:42,580 --> 00:36:46,660 right when I was preparing to do the press conference at the National Press Club. 459 00:36:47,379 --> 00:36:52,980 But hey, the National Press Club, so-called beacon for freedom of the press, 460 00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:58,500 they were just as involved in trying to keep the story from ever being. 461 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:03,940 It's interesting. I watched the other night, I watched your entire National Press Club 462 00:37:03,940 --> 00:37:08,339 appearance and in it, you detail your intersections with law enforcement. 463 00:37:09,940 --> 00:37:13,379 Exhaustively. Every time you've been arrested, you explain it. Every time you'v... 464 00:37:13,380 --> 00:37:18,019 you've explained it. So you didn't, from what I could tell, hide your past. 465 00:37:18,019 --> 00:37:25,700 No. Why? You can't, I mean, I've never hidden my past in regular everyday life. Why woul... 466 00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:32,579 it in something like this? So, I mean, you're the only person on this set who's had sex... 467 00:37:32,579 --> 00:37:38,980 Barack Obama. So I think you're, I don't know, expert on Obama, but you know more t... 468 00:37:39,059 --> 00:37:47,619 people. What's your assessment of him now? I think he's the same grifter that he's alwa... 469 00:37:47,619 --> 00:37:53,219 I think he's still very power hungry. I think Obama is calling the shots in the current... 470 00:37:53,219 --> 00:38:01,619 administration more than people are willing to admit. I think Obama is hell bent. I ha... 471 00:38:01,619 --> 00:38:07,780 statement during that press conference that I felt that Barack Obama being elected was... 472 00:38:08,420 --> 00:38:15,300 race relations in this country backwards 50 years. I am absolutely positive I was goin... 473 00:38:15,300 --> 00:38:18,580 Yes, well, I think you've been vindicated on that. 474 00:38:18,580 --> 00:38:23,940 Because race relations in this country has not only gotten pushed back, but everythin... 475 00:38:23,940 --> 00:38:31,300 race now. Everything. Everything is about victimization now. It's interesting, though. 476 00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:37,300 Yeah, he's obviously a race hater, very anti-white, but he had sex with a white man, 477 00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:42,660 so you have to ask, like, is that real? Oh, for him, of course. And I would be willing 478 00:38:42,660 --> 00:38:47,460 to bet you I'm not the only white person he's ever had sex with, or male, anyway. 479 00:38:49,539 --> 00:38:59,220 But hey, he's got what he wanted. You know, he is in D.C. He's living the life. He sti... 480 00:38:59,219 --> 00:39:07,299 upon as being the savior of the country, you know? And sadly, people are still giving h... 481 00:39:07,939 --> 00:39:11,619 And I think it's going eventually to be to the detriment of... 482 00:39:11,619 --> 00:39:16,179 Can I just ask you one last question? I'm just thinking about it. It's very insightful, 483 00:39:16,179 --> 00:39:23,699 because I knew a lot of people who weren't liberal who voted for Obama purely on the... 484 00:39:23,699 --> 00:39:28,099 And they weren't all self-hating, guilty whites. They were like nice, normal people... 485 00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:33,860 see race relations improve. And that really was the core promise of his campaign. And ... 486 00:39:33,860 --> 00:39:38,420 people bought it. A lot of smart people bought it. And I saw why they bought it. B... 487 00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:45,139 it. How did you know that? I grew up in South Carolina in the 1960s and 70s, okay? I'd been 488 00:39:45,139 --> 00:39:51,059 gay and knew I was gay since six years old. Never hit it, okay? Yeah. I grew up in rur... 489 00:39:51,059 --> 00:40:00,179 Carolina. And my first job as a kid was cropping tobacco for a family by the name ... 490 00:40:00,179 --> 00:40:08,019 were a black family living across the road from my grandparents. So I grew up as a ki... 491 00:40:08,579 --> 00:40:15,860 in an era and an area that would get you killed being gay just as quick as you coul... 492 00:40:16,340 --> 00:40:25,300 being black. So I actually knew the other side of the track before I knew that I was... 493 00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:32,820 act like I was above this or above that. I've watched it my whole life. I know when someone 494 00:40:32,820 --> 00:40:41,940 plays, when it comes to acting like they're one way and then in reality they're the... 495 00:40:41,940 --> 00:40:49,940 or bigots alive on both sides, okay? I knew because he was saying one thing in the... 496 00:40:49,940 --> 00:40:55,460 and then if people started to actually listen to what he was saying, remember there was ... 497 00:40:55,460 --> 00:41:01,780 he actually told supporters to show up at a fight with a knife. Get in people's face,... 498 00:41:01,780 --> 00:41:06,900 them if they didn't agree to support him, if they didn't agree to vote for him. Argue w... 499 00:41:06,900 --> 00:41:12,340 convince them. Come on. You don't make statements like that and tell me 500 00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:21,700 that you're not going to make things about race. He did. Man, that is the one part of... 501 00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:27,220 that we can say unequivocally you're telling the truth about. You saw that and most peo... 502 00:41:27,220 --> 00:41:32,740 Larry Sinclair, I'm really grateful that you came. I wish I had interviewed you in 2008... 503 00:41:32,739 --> 00:41:39,619 think anyone would have run the interview. Anyway, thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. 504 00:41:39,619 --> 00:41:47,539 Great to meet you. You too.