1
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Thank you.

2
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What were your options when you were 18 in terms of what you might do with your life?

3
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Well, I had absolutely no idea. And my options were, you know, get some quick, fast job, probably physical labor to, you know, to earn the bread.

4
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Where were you?

5
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In Australia. I had an opportunity of going to university, had finished high school, did average, but passed, really hated school.

6
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And I could have gone into journalism more. The other option that was open to me was sort of auditioning for a drama school, which I did.

7
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And I could tell jokes and stories and make stories up and convince people of things that weren't true.

8
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You were a liar.

9
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Kind of, yeah. A great liar.

10
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Yeah.

11
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Yeah. A good liar.

12
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I'm not as good a liar now as I was then.

13
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Because it's, you know, the lying thing is something you have to try and overcome, I guess.

14
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Sure.

15
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And I try and put it into a framework where I can call it a profession now, which is...

16
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It's called acting.

17
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Yeah.

18
00:02:03,620 --> 00:02:03,760
Yeah.

19
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I can't say that I have a method.

20
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I don't think I do.

21
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I mean, there is method, but I find that it constantly shifts and changes, and I think that that's a good thing.

22
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I'm not sure. I was educated in the way of theater craft and stuff was a very British way of doing things, which meant technique.

23
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They're all in favor of actually feeling a real emotion and doing that.

24
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But they just say you're not going to be able to summon that every time.

25
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And even if you could summon that every time, you would die young.

26
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Yeah.

27
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So that you have to be able to at least fake it well.

28
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How do you deal with actors in that way?

29
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Well, you choose the ones who you want to be with for a start.

30
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I never make them read or anything.

31
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No.

32
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I doubt that you do either.

33
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I don't like it.

34
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I don't understand that.

35
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I get embarrassed.

36
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I get embarrassed.

37
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And when they cry in a reading, I get like, oh, God.

38
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Yeah.

39
00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:11,340
You want to go and...

40
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You want to leave because you feel you shouldn't be there.

41
00:03:13,340 --> 00:03:15,480
Well, it seems like you're doing something terribly wrong.

42
00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:16,920
You feel like some kind of a...

43
00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:21,040
I mean, you feel as if you're committing a crime.

44
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Yeah.

45
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,920
And it's kind of slimy.

46
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It's kind of prostitution.

47
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Sure.

48
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:31,140
But that, I think, is even beyond.

49
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It's just kind of watching someone go through the act of prostituting themselves.

50
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It's...

51
00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,140
There's something that's very almost unbearable about it.

52
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I find that all the actresses I've spoken to, all, without prompting, come up with the same thing of how detestable is the casting process.

53
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Not the old casting couch thing, just the thing of not having someone good to read with, you know,

54
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and being expected to come in and emote and look sexy and the whole thing in front of a bunch of strangers.

55
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It's not fair.

56
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:03,600
It's perverse.

57
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,320
Well, it's not fair on them, either.

58
00:04:05,420 --> 00:04:05,620
No.

59
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It's asking them to do something...

60
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And you don't find out anything from it.

61
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You find out nothing from it.

62
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This is the main reason why I really hate it.

63
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You can get them in there, and somebody might do just a slap-up job for that day,

64
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but that's what they've aimed at that day.

65
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You have to be able to figure out whether they're going to be any good for three months while you're working with them.

66
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And the best way to do that is to get them in the room, sit them down, and it may be uncomfortable,

67
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as it always is, getting to know someone to begin with, and they think they're going to have to read,

68
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so you tell them, well, to begin with, I don't want you to read anything, and they sort of relax a little.

69
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And you say, I'm not making anybody read, so they don't feel like they're being outcast.

70
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No, that's the big thing, yeah.

71
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And I don't think it tells you anything except the fact that, well, hey, they can read.

72
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I was fortunate. I only had to do it one time, ever.

73
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:04,960
As an actor?

74
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:10,520
As an actor, when I was starting out on a career, I only had to do it once because I was really bad at it.

75
00:05:10,740 --> 00:05:14,520
I couldn't do it. I just couldn't do it.

76
00:05:14,740 --> 00:05:19,880
What happened was, I went into this place, and the guy said,

77
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read this. Can you memorize this in, like, ten minutes and come back and do it?

78
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And he gave me this script with, I mean, it was, like, two full pages of, like, complete, like, a soliloquy, like a dialogue.

79
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Not well written, either.

80
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I said, just give me a little hint about who this guy is and why he's saying this stuff,

81
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so they gave me, like, a thumbnail, and I thought, okay.

82
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So I went into the next room, and, you know, I tried to comprehend it as best I could,

83
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and then I just came back.

84
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They turned a video camera on me, and I just sat there and tried to do it.

85
00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,960
I couldn't, I didn't do it according to the page or anything,

86
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,040
but I just started off and improvised the whole thing around it,

87
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which is all you could do in ten minutes, I mean.

88
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:04,500
And got the job?

89
00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:05,600
Got it, yeah.

90
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:12,820
I was so far away from the technical aspects of reading and doing things within some parameter

91
00:06:12,820 --> 00:06:17,660
that is given in audition processes that I thought it was hopeless anyway,

92
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so I thought, fuck it, threw it away and was relaxed.

93
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And that's the best way to find out whether or not this actor, actress will suit your requirement,

94
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is to have them relax.

95
00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,740
And then you can talk about the fucking weather, and you'll know within 15 minutes.

96
00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:37,460
If this is a person you want to work with.

97
00:06:37,940 --> 00:06:38,300
Yeah.

98
00:06:38,460 --> 00:06:44,220
Christopher Walken, the first time I ever did a casting session in America, terrified me.

99
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Me too.

100
00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:45,740
I mean, fucking hell.

101
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:46,480
I came to meet the guy.

102
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They said, oh, he's flying in from God knows where.

103
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:51,740
Yeah, but he didn't need a plane, right?

104
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Yeah.

105
00:06:52,100 --> 00:06:53,480
It's like, he didn't need a plane.

106
00:06:53,660 --> 00:06:56,380
He came in, he was doing all the kind of Scorsese stuff,

107
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and I said, have you had a chance to read the script?

108
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And he looked at me and he said, do you like my face?

109
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And I went, yes.

110
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And he said, well, that's fucking great, because if you don't, get De Niro.

111
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Fuck you, I'm out of here.

112
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And we stood up and walked out.

113
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And everyone said, well, that I think was quite a good meeting.

114
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No, he came to see me on a rooftop in New York.

115
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I said, hey, can I talk to you?

116
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And he said, sure.

117
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And he floated in sideways through a crowd of people.

118
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He was wearing black, and it was like one of those old vampire movies

119
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where they don't walk, but they glide.

120
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And he was a dancer, you know, so he's very graceful.

121
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And he moved sideways, and he just sat down in a chair next to me.

122
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And it kind of frightened me.

123
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And he's a very smart guy.

124
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And we started talking, and I didn't say much of anything about reading the script, nothing.

125
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I just started talking about the Middle Ages.

126
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And he began to talk tortures.

127
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And we swapped tortures, because I'd read this book on torture.

128
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And I tried to recall some of the most heinous things I'd ever read in this book.

129
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And he was like, oh, oh.

130
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And he'd try and top it.

131
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And my assistant was there, and he left, because he couldn't stand it anymore.

132
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The air had turned cold.

133
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And then he left, and I wanted to leave, because I knew that I didn't want to work with him.

134
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And he was getting scary.

135
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And then I turned around, and it was on top of the Peninsula Hotel.

136
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I turned around to avoid his steady gaze at one point, and I was looking at a building with the top of the sixes on it.

137
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So there was a huge illuminated triple six in red.

138
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And I went from that to that to that, and he started smiling.

139
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And I thought, oh, no, Chris Walken is the antichrist, you know.

140
00:08:52,540 --> 00:08:57,800
There are certain trends that seem to kind of float together, which is one of the questions that keeps coming up is,

141
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why are there no decent parts for women?

142
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Why are actresses, why are women just completely underused in storytelling?

143
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Within this system known as Hollywood.

144
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Any thoughts on that?

145
00:09:11,260 --> 00:09:16,260
Well, I think the storytelling has always been a kind of a male medium.

146
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Always in history?

147
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Always.

148
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From the start.

149
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They were the guys who did.

150
00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:26,520
I mean, women just think differently to us, and that's a good thing.

151
00:09:27,460 --> 00:09:33,780
And there are things about the way they think and about the way they look at things that we cannot possibly understand.

152
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And, in fact, it's far above us, beyond us, to try and, like, get a hook on it.

153
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Because I've tried, and I'm, you know, I'm a little wiser because I can kind of allow for it more now because I understand that it exists.

154
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But totally understanding it, I will never.

155
00:09:50,240 --> 00:10:01,360
And I think the male of the species is more adept at the telling of a story.

156
00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:05,380
That's why you go to any bar, it's not women telling jokes.

157
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It's guys telling jokes.

158
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Right.

159
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Women are notoriously bad joke tellers, most of them.

160
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Some of them are good.

161
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Some of them have a capacity for it.

162
00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:24,300
But I think, just generally, I think men are better at it, at telling stories.

163
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And when they tell a story, they have to, it has to issue from themselves and their own experience.

164
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And it's very hard, if most of the storytellers around are men, to actually have a good story about a woman.

165
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Right.

166
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I think.

167
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It's done.

168
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It's done pretty well at times.

169
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Even if we go back to, say, the 40s, 50s, early 60s, just of cinema, I forget literature.

170
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Although the balance would have been still in the favor of men, in terms of just number of roles and so on.

171
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There were far more, I mean, there were some very powerful actresses who were taken incredibly, in terms of box office, were taken as seriously as men.

172
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Like Joan Crawford.

173
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Exactly.

174
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Any number of them, actually.

175
00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,360
But she used to display a male point of view.

176
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It was very interesting.

177
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She was very masculine on screen.

178
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Right.

179
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And is it that women are trying, they're saying the parts aren't good because they're not masculine?

180
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I'm never quite sure about that.

181
00:11:29,140 --> 00:11:40,000
If you look at the, you know, the scripts that are floating around right now, and the movies that are being made, they're woefully short on interesting female parts.

182
00:11:40,260 --> 00:11:40,560
Yes, they are.

183
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:46,860
Women tend to kind of pop up and sort of endorse men, take their clothes off if they're in a good enough shape, and leave.

184
00:11:46,860 --> 00:11:47,180
Yeah.

185
00:11:47,180 --> 00:11:58,740
And one of the actresses I spoke to actually, I came up with what I thought was a pretty smart thing, which was saying, I said, at what point do you see the decline in women's roles?

186
00:11:58,740 --> 00:12:10,280
He said, the moment women took their clothes off, and it became a given, then seemed to be a lack of respect and a dropping off of interest in other points of interest about women.

187
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:23,140
There's a producer I know, and there's a producer I know, successful producer, I will not mention names, but his whole opinion about women on film, from beginning to end, is very brief.

188
00:12:23,140 --> 00:12:36,360
He says, women on film, either naked or dead, both is better, and it's like, whoa, ooh, the man has got a spiritual malady for a start.

189
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:39,900
I mean, the scary thing is that I think a lot of people think that.

190
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:52,320
Maybe not to that extreme, there are people, well-meaning people, and you find that the woman and the woman's role in a film becomes some sort of just appendage to the man.

191
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,520
And I can see why they're not too fulfilled in doing that.

192
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,220
You're here, basically, right? You live here?

193
00:13:01,740 --> 00:13:05,640
Most of the time, yeah. Yeah, really. I guess, yeah. I integrated.

194
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:11,540
I mean, obviously, it's pretty much based on money, the system here.

195
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,840
It is. The system is completely based on money.

196
00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:17,440
The studio system.

197
00:13:19,020 --> 00:13:23,980
To a degree, I think the way I hook into the system is based on money.

198
00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:36,920
I mean, you've managed, you're a rare bird, you've, we still think of you as an actor, but in fact, that's just quite a small part of what you do now, isn't it?

199
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:45,480
Yeah. It's the part that, I mean, I was, when I found, when somebody told me just how many movies you'd produced, I was stunned.

200
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,140
I mean, you turn over, don't you?

201
00:13:48,140 --> 00:14:01,120
Quite a few. I mean, we're pretty prolific for a perceived vanity company, which I think a lot of people start film companies and then they don't really do anything with them.

202
00:14:01,780 --> 00:14:09,880
But this is, gets into the act sometimes. Not always successfully, either. I mean, we've made some horrible little pictures, but we've made some good ones, too.

203
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:10,120
Yeah.

204
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:16,440
And so that, that's, there's a pride in that, and I enjoy doing that.

205
00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:18,020
Yeah. How active are you?

206
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:19,800
Pretty active.

207
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:20,920
You've got a good team, haven't you?

208
00:14:21,180 --> 00:14:24,960
Yeah. I think there's a lot of people here with good heads on their shoulders.

209
00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,520
And nobody's immune from making a mistake, that's for sure.

210
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:29,820
Yeah.

211
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,920
And we make plenty of them. We call them school fees.

212
00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:35,620
Yeah.

213
00:14:35,620 --> 00:14:44,920
School fees. Every time we get ripped off or, or make a big mistake or, you know, where it's, and it costs you.

214
00:14:45,140 --> 00:14:45,380
Yeah.

215
00:14:45,580 --> 00:14:49,600
And you think, oh, it costs you two million or four million.

216
00:14:49,780 --> 00:14:55,320
So when you get a project that you're going to, that your company's going to do, do they vary?

217
00:14:55,440 --> 00:15:01,300
Are some ones that you just think are, just should be made as a film, or is it pretty much financially based, your judgment?

218
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,880
No, it's not solely financially based.

219
00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:08,780
I think that there's an art in marrying the two.

220
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:09,400
Sure, yeah.

221
00:15:09,620 --> 00:15:16,660
And, and if you can find that balance and satisfy both requirements, then you are successful within the industry.

222
00:15:16,860 --> 00:15:17,120
Right.

223
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,920
It doesn't mean you're not successful if you don't meet one of those requirements.

224
00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,540
You're just successful within this industry.

225
00:15:24,540 --> 00:15:36,580
So what would you say was the good news about Hollywood right now, being very actively in the middle of it?

226
00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:38,160
I think.

227
00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:38,960
What's right about it?

228
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:47,600
The best thing about it is that, you know, I, I grew up, and I guess you grew up in an industry that happened somewhere else.

229
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:47,880
Mm-hmm.

230
00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:57,660
And I succumb to the charm of film and filmmaking, and, and, and I love it.

231
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:58,040
Mm-hmm.

232
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,240
And I love telling a story, and I love everything about it.

233
00:16:01,420 --> 00:16:01,740
Mm-hmm.

234
00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:03,880
Even the crappy things about it, I kind of like.

235
00:16:04,060 --> 00:16:04,300
Mm-hmm.

236
00:16:05,420 --> 00:16:11,820
Um, and it, it kind of, I guess it gets almost to a question of like kind of a religion.

237
00:16:12,220 --> 00:16:12,380
Mm-hmm.

238
00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:14,780
Mecca for filmmakers is this industry here.

239
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:15,300
Mm-hmm.

240
00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:17,880
It's where there's the biggest pool.

241
00:16:18,740 --> 00:16:23,900
It's where every, it's the watering hole where everyone comes to see, to measure up.

242
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:24,460
Mm-hmm.

243
00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:27,680
To include themselves in the pool.

244
00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:28,740
Their talent.

245
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:39,280
And that collective thing, it's like you go to the smorgasbord to feed your, your need to work,

246
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:44,020
and your need to tell stories, and your need to express yourself, whatever form it takes.

247
00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:53,180
Is there a collective, uh, ethos, or, um, somebody once said, my problem was I didn't understand the social contract here.

248
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:54,740
I now understand what that means.

249
00:16:54,740 --> 00:16:54,960
Yeah.

250
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:56,300
Do you understand it?

251
00:16:56,620 --> 00:16:57,520
The social contract?

252
00:16:57,520 --> 00:16:57,740
Yeah.

253
00:16:57,740 --> 00:16:58,480
I think I do.

254
00:16:58,560 --> 00:16:58,760
Yeah.

255
00:16:58,920 --> 00:16:59,780
What is it for you?

256
00:17:00,260 --> 00:17:02,240
Uh, the social contract.

257
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,400
You can't get mad.

258
00:17:05,740 --> 00:17:06,120
Mm-hmm.

259
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:08,180
You can't get mad.

260
00:17:08,180 --> 00:17:25,900
You can't let it get you because you have to have, you have to make a deal with everyone else and it's almost unspoken that you are going to be fucked over at some point by people who you may have done something nice for.

261
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:41,520
And it may happen that by circumstance, or even very purposefully, that you fuck someone over, but that shouldn't get in the way of you being able to sit down and have fun with them.

262
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:45,520
Am I on the right track?

263
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:45,940
Absolutely.

264
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,320
You can't build a resentment about it.

265
00:17:48,420 --> 00:17:50,660
You have to still try and love those people.

266
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:51,120
Yeah.

267
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:53,060
Because that's the way they're thinking.

268
00:17:53,260 --> 00:17:53,960
Because it ain't personal.

269
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:55,780
No, it's not personal.

270
00:17:55,980 --> 00:17:57,140
They don't really mean to hurt you.

271
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:57,620
No.

272
00:17:57,780 --> 00:17:58,280
Not really.

273
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,520
I don't quite understand.

274
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:02,980
Well, I mean, there's a lot of motivations for why it happens.

275
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:03,240
Sure.

276
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:03,680
That's many.

277
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:07,320
I mean, money will make you do stuff as well, isn't it?

278
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,060
I mean, one, them, us, you know?

279
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:10,180
Yes.

280
00:18:10,180 --> 00:18:10,900
Yeah, well, whoever.

281
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,660
If there's many millions riding on a decision, it's hard to be philosophical.

282
00:18:16,340 --> 00:18:16,660
Yes.

283
00:18:17,020 --> 00:18:17,220
Yeah.

284
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:18,840
Yeah, very, very hard.

285
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:25,600
Very hard to be, you know, you have to choose what level of integrity you're coming in at.

286
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:26,840
Okay.

287
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:29,840
And I've often felt it.

288
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:35,400
I've sat there and I have felt the knife slip firmly in between my shoulder blades

289
00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:38,260
and tried to have it shoved through the other side through my heart.

290
00:18:38,620 --> 00:18:41,580
And I've actually felt the whole thing and I've gone, ah!

291
00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:47,680
I'll wait till next week, you know.

292
00:18:48,020 --> 00:18:50,880
Or I'll thank you, fuck it.

293
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,020
And you'll resent it for a little while, then you have to let it go.

294
00:18:54,140 --> 00:18:56,400
Otherwise, you'll eat yourself alive here.

295
00:18:57,860 --> 00:19:03,420
And I think it takes that kind of cockroach resilience to survive in this town.

296
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:05,580
I mean, this is a bizarre place.

297
00:19:07,820 --> 00:19:12,660
And it doesn't take very long if, and I'm sure you've experienced this if you've stayed

298
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:13,960
here for any length of time.

299
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,100
You come in, you're fresh from the outside.

300
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,480
You're off the boat, from the farm, still got shit on your shoes.

301
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:22,460
You're in here.

302
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:25,860
People are charmed by that, that you've still got shit on your shoes.

303
00:19:25,860 --> 00:19:30,480
They're charmed by that fresh approach you bring to it.

304
00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:31,500
And that's a real thing.

305
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,500
But they're also stroking the shit out of you, you know, licking you all over.

306
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:38,280
And that's kind of good for you, too.

307
00:19:38,420 --> 00:19:38,780
That's great.

308
00:19:38,780 --> 00:19:48,640
But it doesn't take very long before you realize, or before it gets to you, it's cascading on

309
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:49,400
you all the time.

310
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:53,220
You can't get away from certain attitudes, from certain modes of behavior that this town

311
00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:54,320
and the industry dictate.

312
00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:02,740
And no matter how strong you are, when you come in, off the farm, with those convictions

313
00:20:02,740 --> 00:20:10,760
and a certain line of attack, no matter how strong you are, you are going to be affected

314
00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:11,600
by this place.

315
00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:16,620
And it's going to divert you from where you were going.

316
00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:17,940
You're going to be diverted.

317
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:23,620
When I came over here, I was, oh God, I was in my mid-20s.

318
00:20:23,620 --> 00:20:26,420
The first time I really came over here.

319
00:20:26,980 --> 00:20:32,060
You know, I had a whole bunch of weird, paranoid suspicions about what the hell was going on

320
00:20:32,060 --> 00:20:34,040
because there was a lot of stuff I couldn't understand.

321
00:20:34,180 --> 00:20:34,360
Right.

322
00:20:35,780 --> 00:20:38,580
And nobody was really bothering to explain it to me.

323
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:39,380
They don't.

324
00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:51,440
And I formed a bunch of opinions about the town and about the people in it that were like,

325
00:20:51,440 --> 00:21:01,360
surely that couldn't be because a whole place can't be like, you know, weird town, you know,

326
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,300
where the stranger wanders in and all the people are in the bar and they all shut up when he

327
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:05,800
looks at them.

328
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,480
And they'd tell you, don't go to the house on the hill.

329
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:10,720
It's like that.

330
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,820
And then you go away and you think, no, I was wrong.

331
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:17,020
I mean, that's insane thinking.

332
00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:17,860
I'm paranoid.

333
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,420
I imagined that stuff.

334
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,620
That couldn't be the reason for why so-and-so was acting like, could it?

335
00:21:24,620 --> 00:21:29,660
And then you find out later on the track that you were exactly on track with a lot of this

336
00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:30,000
stuff.

337
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:37,060
Not specifically on track, but that you could, that some of your worst nightmares were real

338
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:38,000
at the time.

339
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:38,840
And you think, oh.

340
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:44,560
Now, this is what I mean by actually starting to swim up or downstream with the rest of the

341
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:46,980
salmon, you know, eventually if you stay here long enough.

342
00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:47,280
Yeah.

343
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,640
You'll find yourself doing that.

344
00:21:51,620 --> 00:21:57,880
And you have to, there's a way of doing it without doing it.

345
00:21:59,420 --> 00:22:00,520
That takes time.

346
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:04,580
And it takes relaxation.

347
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,740
Not being uncomfortable about.

348
00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:10,600
Not being uncomfortable.

349
00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:12,140
Realizing it for what it is.

350
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:12,760
Projecting.

351
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,020
Understanding what it is.

352
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,160
Once you understand it, well, then you're not afraid of it.

353
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:17,520
Anymore.

354
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:19,820
So you can just walk around it and through it.

355
00:22:20,020 --> 00:22:23,780
And then get on with what you tried to get on with in the first place.

356
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,840
A place like this can humiliate you.

357
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,700
And it can be, it can either, it can humiliate you.

358
00:22:29,740 --> 00:22:30,480
It can be humbling.

359
00:22:30,620 --> 00:22:32,940
I mean, it does rip your life to pieces.

360
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:33,660
Does it?

361
00:22:33,820 --> 00:22:34,820
If you'll let it.

362
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:35,120
Yeah.

363
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,540
And it's always pounding at the walls.

364
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:38,920
Yeah.

365
00:22:39,260 --> 00:22:44,220
These little guys, these little heathens with no soul downstairs with horns on their head with

366
00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:46,440
a battering ram trying to like beat your walls in.

367
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:46,720
Yeah.

368
00:22:47,380 --> 00:22:48,960
But that's your own devils, you know.

369
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:49,300
Yeah.

370
00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:53,900
I mean, as a matter of interest, do you think it's easier because you're an outsider who

371
00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:54,360
came in?

372
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:55,260
I think so.

373
00:22:55,380 --> 00:22:55,600
Yeah.

374
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,660
Because it was glaring to me because I was an outsider who came in.

375
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,660
But who isn't an outsider coming into this?

376
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,620
Our tape's coming to an end.

377
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:09,440
So I just want to ask you a couple of stupid questions.

378
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:11,760
Just really quick off the top of your head.

379
00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:13,580
Give me five movies that you like.

380
00:23:13,660 --> 00:23:14,920
Not the best in the world, just.

381
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,040
Five movies I like.

382
00:23:17,620 --> 00:23:18,620
I hate this question.

383
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:19,540
I can never answer it.

384
00:23:19,620 --> 00:23:19,820
Okay.

385
00:23:20,260 --> 00:23:22,220
I'll never be able to do it in the time allotted.

386
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:22,700
Okay.

387
00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:23,960
Thanks, man.

388
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:24,900
Thank you.

389
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:25,460
Yeah.

390
00:23:25,460 --> 00:23:55,440
Thank you.

391
00:23:55,460 --> 00:24:25,440
Transcription by CastingWords