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Julian, do you want us to sort of start eating?

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While we can do both.

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Yeah, just eat as you like. Is that okay?

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So this is, what's the date?

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June 23rd.

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June 23rd, this is a recording between Julian Assange's Eric Schmidt and...

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Lisa Shields.

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Lisa Shields, to be used in a book by Eric Schmidt,

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and due to be published by Knopf in October 2012,

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I have been given a guarantee that I will see the transcript

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and will be able to adjust it for accuracy and clarity.

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We agree.

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Can we start? I wanted to talk a little bit about Thor, right?

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So that's sort of the whole Navy network and...

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Thor or Thor?

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You actually mean Thor.

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Jeff.

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And Uden is going to...

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I'm sorry, sorry.

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And the Navy network,

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and I don't actually understand how all of that worked.

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And the reason I'm interested in this is I'm fundamentally interested

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in what happens with that technology as it evolves, right?

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And so the problem, I would assert,

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is that if you're trying to receive data,

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you need to have a guarantee of anonymity to the sender.

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You need to have a secure channel to the recipient.

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The recipient needs to be replicated.

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What I'd like you to do, if you could,

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is talk a little bit about that architecture,

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what you did in WikiLeaks technically,

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you know,

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what were the sort of the technical innovations that were needed,

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and then maybe also what happens, you know,

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how does it evolve technology, all this and all this?

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So let me first frame this.

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So I looked at something that I had seen going on with the world,

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which is that I thought that there were too many unjust acts,

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and I wanted there to be more just acts and fewer unjust acts.

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And one can sort of say,

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well, what are your philosophical axioms for this?

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And I say, I do not need to consider them.

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This is simply my temperament.

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And it is an axiom because it exists that way.

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And so that avoids then getting into further unhelpful philosophical discussion

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about why you'd want to do something.

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See, it is an opposite I do.

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So in considering how unjust acts are caused

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and what tends to promote them

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and what promotes just acts,

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I saw that human beings are basically invariant.

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that is that their inclinations and biological temperaments

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hasn't changed much over many thousands of years.

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And so therefore, the only playing field left is

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what do they have and what do they know.

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And have is something that is fairly hard to influence.

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So that is, what resources do they have at their disposal

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and what, how much energy they can harness

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and what are the food supplies and so on.

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But what they know can be affected in a non-linear way

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because when one person conveys information to another,

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they can convey it on to another and another and so on

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in a way that is non-linear and so you can affect a lot of people

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with a small amount of information.

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And therefore, you can change the behaviour of many people

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with a small amount of information.

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So the question then arises as to what kinds of information

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will produce behaviour which is just

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and disincentivise behaviour which is unjust.

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So all around the world,

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there are people observing different parts

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of what is happening to them locally.

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And there are other people

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that are receiving information

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they haven't observed firsthand.

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And in the middle,

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there are people who are involved in

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moving information from the observers

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to the people who will act on information.

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And so these are three separate problems

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that are all coupled together.

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and I felt that there was a difficulty

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in taking observations

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and putting them in an efficient way

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into a distribution system

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which could then get this information

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to people who would act on it.

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And so you can argue that

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companies like Google, for example,

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are involved in this middle business

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of taking,

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of moving information from people who have it

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to people who want it.

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The problem I saw was that

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this first step,

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per step,

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was crippled.

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And often the last step as well

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when it came to

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information that

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governments were inclined to censor.

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So we can look at this whole process

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as the fourth estate

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or justice produced by the fourth estate.

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And so you have some kind of pipeline.

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And so I have this description

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which is a little bit,

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which sort of derived from my

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experiences in quantum mechanics

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about

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looking at the flow

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of particular types of information

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which will affect

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some change in the end.

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So the bottleneck to me

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appeared to primarily be

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in the acquisition of information

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that would go on to produce

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changes that were just.

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and in a fourth estate context

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the people who acquire information

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are sources.

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People who work on

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information and distribute it

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are journalists and publishers

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and the people who act on it

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is everyone.

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So that's a high level construct

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but of course

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it then comes down to

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practically how do you

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engineer

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a system

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that

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solves that problem

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and not just a technical system

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but a total system.

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So

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Wikileaks

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was and is an attempt

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although still very young

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at a total system.

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not for all three phases

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to deal with

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not for all three phases

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but

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for the political component

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the philosophical component

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and the engineering component

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in getting out

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that first component.

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So

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politically

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that means

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anonymizing

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and protecting

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sorry

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technically that means

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anonymizing and protecting

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sources in a

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wide variety of ways.

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Politically

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that also means

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protecting them

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politically

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and incentivizing

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them

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in a political manner.

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Saying that their work

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is valuable

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and encouraging

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other people

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to take it up.

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And

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then there's

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also a legal aspect.

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So

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what are the best

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laws that can be created

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in the best

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jurisdictions

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to operate

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this sort of stuff

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from

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and

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practical

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everyday

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legal defense.

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So

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on the technical front

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our first prototype

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was engineered

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for

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a very adverse

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situation

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where

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publishing

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would be

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extremely difficult

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and our only

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effective defense

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in publishing

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would be

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anonymity.

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where

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sourcing

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is

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as difficult

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as it still

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currently is

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for the national

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security sector

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and where

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internally

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we had

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a very small

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and completely

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trusted team.

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So here

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publishing means

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the question of

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the site itself

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and making

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the material

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public.

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making the

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primary source

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material

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public.

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That's what I mean

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by publishing.

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So the first step

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was to make

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that done

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correctly.

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It was

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clear to me

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that

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all over the world

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publishing

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is a problem

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and whether

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that's

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self-censorship

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or overt

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censorship.

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I'm sorry

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to interrupt you

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just

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is that

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because of

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fear of

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retribution

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by the

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governments?

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It's

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mostly

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self-censorship.

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I see.

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In fact

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I would say

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it's probably

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the most

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significant

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one

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00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:51,080
historically

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has been

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economic

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censorship

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where it's

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simply not

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profitable

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to publish

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something

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there is

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no market

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for it.

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That's

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probably

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what I

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00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:01,440
described

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00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:02,460
as a

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00:11:02,460 --> 00:11:02,800
censorship

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pyramid.

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It's quite

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interesting.

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So on the

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top of the

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00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:07,760
pyramid

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00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,940
there are

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00:11:09,940 --> 00:11:11,080
murders of

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journalists

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00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:11,940
and publishers

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and the

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00:11:16,340 --> 00:11:16,860
next level

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00:11:16,860 --> 00:11:17,660
there's legal

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00:11:17,660 --> 00:11:18,360
attacks on

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journalists

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00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:19,220
and publishers.

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00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:20,940
So if you

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00:11:20,940 --> 00:11:21,420
think what is

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00:11:21,420 --> 00:11:21,760
a legal

303
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:22,140
attack,

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00:11:22,420 --> 00:11:22,760
a legal

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00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:23,260
attack is

306
00:11:23,260 --> 00:11:23,720
simply

307
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,340
delayed

308
00:11:25,340 --> 00:11:26,500
use of

309
00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:26,900
coercive

310
00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:27,280
force

311
00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,900
which doesn't

312
00:11:28,900 --> 00:11:29,220
necessarily

313
00:11:29,220 --> 00:11:29,620
result in

314
00:11:29,620 --> 00:11:30,120
murder but

315
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:30,840
may result

316
00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:31,420
in

317
00:11:31,420 --> 00:11:33,620
incarceration

318
00:11:33,620 --> 00:11:34,720
or

319
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:35,460
asset

320
00:11:35,460 --> 00:11:35,820
seizure.

321
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:37,900
So

322
00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:39,300
the next

323
00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:39,880
level down

324
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:40,440
and remember

325
00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:40,920
the volume

326
00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:41,660
of the area

327
00:11:41,660 --> 00:11:42,240
of the pyramid

328
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:43,840
we're talking

329
00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:44,100
about the

330
00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:44,460
pyramid

331
00:11:44,460 --> 00:11:45,040
the volume

332
00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:45,600
of the pyramid

333
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,820
increases

334
00:11:48,820 --> 00:11:49,600
significantly

335
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:50,440
as you go

336
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,100
down from

337
00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:51,480
the peak

338
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,820
and in this

339
00:11:54,820 --> 00:11:55,360
example that

340
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:56,160
means that

341
00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,960
the number

342
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,340
of acts

343
00:12:00,340 --> 00:12:00,840
of censorship

344
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:01,740
also increases

345
00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:02,280
when it goes

346
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:02,540
down.

347
00:12:02,820 --> 00:12:03,060
So there's

348
00:12:03,060 --> 00:12:03,480
very few

349
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:03,920
people who

350
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,320
are murdered

351
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,780
there's a

352
00:12:06,780 --> 00:12:07,500
few people

353
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,180
who suffer

354
00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:09,580
legal

355
00:12:09,580 --> 00:12:10,500
there's a

356
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:10,880
few number

357
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:11,580
of public

358
00:12:11,580 --> 00:12:12,400
legal attacks

359
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:13,240
on individuals

360
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:13,940
and corporations

361
00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:16,000
and then

362
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:16,560
at the next

363
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:17,560
level there's

364
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:18,300
a tremendous

365
00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:19,140
amount of

366
00:12:19,140 --> 00:12:19,740
self-censorship

367
00:12:19,740 --> 00:12:21,560
and this

368
00:12:21,560 --> 00:12:23,380
self-censorship

369
00:12:23,380 --> 00:12:24,100
occurs

370
00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:26,320
in part

371
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:26,960
because people

372
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:27,500
don't want to

373
00:12:27,500 --> 00:12:28,020
move up

374
00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:28,380
into the

375
00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:28,860
upper parts

376
00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:29,320
of the pyramid

377
00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:30,100
they don't

378
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:30,500
want to come

379
00:12:30,500 --> 00:12:31,000
under legal

380
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:31,660
attack and

381
00:12:31,660 --> 00:12:32,940
other coercive

382
00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:33,740
uses of

383
00:12:33,740 --> 00:12:34,360
coercive force

384
00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:35,140
but they also

385
00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:35,520
don't want to

386
00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:35,880
be killed.

387
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:38,980
So that

388
00:12:38,980 --> 00:12:39,500
discourages

389
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:40,080
people from

390
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:40,880
behaving a

391
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:41,240
certain way

392
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,120
and then

393
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:43,700
there are

394
00:12:43,700 --> 00:12:44,640
other forms

395
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,660
of self-censorship

396
00:12:46,660 --> 00:12:46,980
that are

397
00:12:46,980 --> 00:12:47,940
concerned about

398
00:12:47,940 --> 00:12:50,380
missing out

399
00:12:50,380 --> 00:12:50,800
on business

400
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:51,160
deals

401
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:51,660
missing out

402
00:12:51,660 --> 00:12:52,300
on promotions

403
00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:54,360
and those

404
00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:55,460
are even

405
00:12:55,460 --> 00:12:56,040
more significant

406
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:56,500
because they

407
00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:56,780
are lower

408
00:12:56,780 --> 00:12:57,440
down the

409
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:57,720
pyramid

410
00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:58,600
and the

411
00:12:58,600 --> 00:12:59,180
very bottom

412
00:12:59,180 --> 00:13:01,360
which is the

413
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:02,200
largest volume

414
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,000
is all

415
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,780
those people

416
00:13:04,780 --> 00:13:06,680
who

417
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,100
cannot read

418
00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:09,640
do not have

419
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:10,180
access to

420
00:13:10,180 --> 00:13:10,520
print

421
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,920
do not have

422
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:14,380
access to

423
00:13:14,380 --> 00:13:14,800
fast

424
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,300
communications

425
00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:17,720
or where

426
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:18,480
there is no

427
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:19,020
profitable

428
00:13:19,020 --> 00:13:19,540
industry

429
00:13:19,540 --> 00:13:20,180
in providing

430
00:13:20,180 --> 00:13:20,720
that.

431
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:28,660
so we

432
00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:29,280
decided to

433
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:30,080
deal with

434
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:30,900
the top

435
00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:31,880
of this

436
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:32,220
censorship

437
00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:32,620
pyramid

438
00:13:32,620 --> 00:13:35,980
the top

439
00:13:35,980 --> 00:13:36,400
two

440
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:37,400
sections

441
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:38,300
the threats

442
00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:38,940
of violence

443
00:13:38,940 --> 00:13:39,900
and the

444
00:13:39,900 --> 00:13:41,800
delayed

445
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,300
threats of

446
00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:42,580
violence

447
00:13:42,580 --> 00:13:42,880
that are

448
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:43,300
represented

449
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:43,620
by the

450
00:13:43,620 --> 00:13:43,760
legal

451
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:44,040
system.

452
00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,060
so in

453
00:13:46,060 --> 00:13:46,620
some ways

454
00:13:46,620 --> 00:13:47,460
that is

455
00:13:47,460 --> 00:13:49,120
the hardest

456
00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:49,740
case

457
00:13:49,740 --> 00:13:51,620
in some

458
00:13:51,620 --> 00:13:52,060
ways it's

459
00:13:52,060 --> 00:13:52,560
the easiest

460
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:53,000
case

461
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,140
it's the easiest

462
00:13:55,140 --> 00:13:56,080
case because

463
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:57,940
it's clear cut

464
00:13:57,940 --> 00:13:58,900
when things are

465
00:13:58,900 --> 00:13:59,440
being censored

466
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:00,660
there or not

467
00:14:00,660 --> 00:14:01,560
it's also

468
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,000
easiest because

469
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:03,740
the volume

470
00:14:03,740 --> 00:14:05,400
of censorship

471
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:06,620
is relatively

472
00:14:06,620 --> 00:14:07,840
small even

473
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:08,880
if the

474
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:09,440
per event

475
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:10,040
significance

476
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:10,540
is really

477
00:14:10,540 --> 00:14:11,040
very high.

478
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:15,720
So in

479
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,040
um

480
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,960
to be

481
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:20,720
before

482
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:21,360
WikiLeaks

483
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:21,840
had

484
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,100
although of

485
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:23,520
course I

486
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:23,900
had

487
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:25,800
some previous

488
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:26,220
political

489
00:14:26,220 --> 00:14:26,820
connections

490
00:14:26,820 --> 00:14:27,940
from other

491
00:14:27,940 --> 00:14:28,540
activities

492
00:14:28,540 --> 00:14:30,660
we didn't

493
00:14:30,660 --> 00:14:31,120
have that

494
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:31,380
many

495
00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:31,860
friends

496
00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:35,360
we didn't

497
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:35,660
have

498
00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:36,920
significant

499
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:37,400
political

500
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:37,820
allies

501
00:14:37,820 --> 00:14:39,300
and we

502
00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:39,740
didn't have

503
00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:40,560
a worldwide

504
00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:41,600
audience that

505
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,140
were looking

506
00:14:43,140 --> 00:14:43,940
to see how

507
00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:44,220
we were

508
00:14:44,220 --> 00:14:44,480
treated.

509
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,140
So we

510
00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:47,500
took the

511
00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:48,140
position that

512
00:14:48,140 --> 00:14:48,560
we would

513
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,620
need to

514
00:14:50,620 --> 00:14:50,900
have a

515
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:51,200
publishing

516
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:51,800
system

517
00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,440
um

518
00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,920
that

519
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:57,660
its only

520
00:14:57,660 --> 00:14:58,240
defence was

521
00:14:58,240 --> 00:14:58,740
anonymity

522
00:14:58,740 --> 00:14:59,820
that is

523
00:14:59,820 --> 00:15:00,160
it had

524
00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:00,380
no

525
00:15:00,380 --> 00:15:00,980
financial

526
00:15:00,980 --> 00:15:01,460
defence

527
00:15:01,460 --> 00:15:01,900
it had

528
00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:02,060
no

529
00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:02,300
legal

530
00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:02,800
defence

531
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:03,300
and

532
00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:03,480
it

533
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:03,860
had

534
00:15:03,860 --> 00:15:04,060
no

535
00:15:04,060 --> 00:15:04,540
political

536
00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:05,580
defences

537
00:15:05,580 --> 00:15:05,900
its

538
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:06,280
defences

539
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:06,880
were purely

540
00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:07,320
technical

541
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,580
um

542
00:15:09,580 --> 00:15:11,180
so that

543
00:15:11,180 --> 00:15:11,640
meant

544
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,220
a system

545
00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:14,380
that

546
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:16,100
was

547
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:16,780
well

548
00:15:16,780 --> 00:15:17,940
distributed

549
00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:18,440
at its

550
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:18,800
front

551
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:19,880
um

552
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:20,440
with

553
00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:21,140
many

554
00:15:21,140 --> 00:15:21,480
domain

555
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:21,820
names

556
00:15:21,820 --> 00:15:22,040
and a

557
00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:22,280
fast

558
00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:22,620
ability

559
00:15:22,620 --> 00:15:23,140
to change

560
00:15:23,140 --> 00:15:23,380
those

561
00:15:23,380 --> 00:15:23,640
domain

562
00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:24,020
names

563
00:15:24,020 --> 00:15:26,940
caching

564
00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:27,560
system

565
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:28,940
and at

566
00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:29,400
the back

567
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:30,480
tunneling

568
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:30,820
through

569
00:15:30,820 --> 00:15:31,380
the Tor

570
00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:31,820
network

571
00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:32,220
to hidden

572
00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:32,740
servers

573
00:15:32,740 --> 00:15:33,700
so

574
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:34,540
again

575
00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:34,860
if I

576
00:15:34,860 --> 00:15:35,820
if I

577
00:15:35,820 --> 00:15:36,080
could talk

578
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:36,360
to us a

579
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:36,500
little bit

580
00:15:36,500 --> 00:15:36,920
about this

581
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:37,220
so

582
00:15:37,220 --> 00:15:38,960
you can

583
00:15:38,960 --> 00:15:39,180
switch

584
00:15:39,180 --> 00:15:39,480
the end

585
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:39,900
your

586
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:40,640
website

587
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:41,060
names

588
00:15:41,060 --> 00:15:41,380
and so

589
00:15:41,380 --> 00:15:41,560
forth

590
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:41,740
very

591
00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:42,080
quickly

592
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:43,300
you

593
00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:44,320
use

594
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:44,620
the

595
00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:45,400
tunneling

596
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,340
to get

597
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:46,860
back

598
00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:47,240
to

599
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:47,500
to

600
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:48,060
communicate

601
00:15:48,060 --> 00:15:48,480
among

602
00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:48,820
these

603
00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:49,380
replicas

604
00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:50,360
or

605
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:50,560
this

606
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:50,700
is

607
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:50,860
for

608
00:15:50,860 --> 00:15:51,460
distribution

609
00:15:51,460 --> 00:15:53,640
so

610
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:54,780
we

611
00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:54,940
had

612
00:15:54,940 --> 00:15:56,080
sacrificial

613
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:56,420
front

614
00:15:56,420 --> 00:15:56,800
nodes

615
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:58,360
um

616
00:15:58,360 --> 00:15:59,960
that

617
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:00,260
were

618
00:16:00,260 --> 00:16:00,500
very

619
00:16:00,500 --> 00:16:01,260
fast

620
00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:01,580
to set

621
00:16:01,580 --> 00:16:01,840
up

622
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:02,420
very

623
00:16:02,420 --> 00:16:02,700
quick

624
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:03,040
to set

625
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:03,340
up

626
00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:04,280
um

627
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,220
that we

628
00:16:06,220 --> 00:16:06,500
nonetheless

629
00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:07,260
did place

630
00:16:07,260 --> 00:16:07,780
in

631
00:16:07,780 --> 00:16:08,700
relatively

632
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:09,280
hospitable

633
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:09,880
jurisdictions

634
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:10,500
like Sweden

635
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:12,780
and

636
00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:13,040
those

637
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:13,400
fast

638
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:13,680
front

639
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:14,220
nodes

640
00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:15,080
um

641
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,380
were

642
00:16:17,380 --> 00:16:17,820
fast

643
00:16:17,820 --> 00:16:18,280
because

644
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:18,520
there

645
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:18,680
was

646
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:19,000
no

647
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,480
very

648
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:20,700
few

649
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:20,980
hops

650
00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:21,420
between

651
00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:21,820
them

652
00:16:21,820 --> 00:16:22,220
and

653
00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:22,460
the

654
00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:23,800
people

655
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:24,120
reading

656
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:24,360
them

657
00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:25,300
that's

658
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:26,040
an

659
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:26,380
important

660
00:16:26,380 --> 00:16:26,780
lesson

661
00:16:26,780 --> 00:16:27,100
that

662
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:27,940
I

663
00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:28,140
had

664
00:16:28,140 --> 00:16:28,400
learned

665
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:28,580
from

666
00:16:28,580 --> 00:16:28,820
things

667
00:16:28,820 --> 00:16:28,960
that

668
00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:29,060
I

669
00:16:29,060 --> 00:16:29,200
did

670
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:29,620
before

671
00:16:29,620 --> 00:16:30,500
that

672
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:33,500
um

673
00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:35,300
being

674
00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:35,500
a

675
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:35,720
Sherman

676
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:36,160
tank

677
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:36,960
is not

678
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:37,280
always

679
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:37,420
an

680
00:16:37,420 --> 00:16:37,800
advantage

681
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:38,220
because

682
00:16:38,220 --> 00:16:38,460
you're

683
00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:38,620
not

684
00:16:38,620 --> 00:16:39,540
maneuverable

685
00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:39,680
in

686
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:39,820
your

687
00:16:39,820 --> 00:16:40,160
slope

688
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:40,920
so

689
00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,360
a lot

690
00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:43,560
of the

691
00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:44,020
protection

692
00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:45,260
um

693
00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:46,300
for

694
00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:46,780
publishers

695
00:16:46,780 --> 00:16:47,340
is

696
00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:47,680
publishing

697
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:48,140
quickly

698
00:16:48,140 --> 00:16:48,980
you get

699
00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:49,080
the

700
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:49,480
information

701
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:50,040
quickly

702
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:50,500
and very

703
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:50,720
well

704
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:50,960
read

705
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:51,180
the

706
00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:51,560
incentive

707
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:52,220
for

708
00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:52,520
people

709
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:52,880
to go

710
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:53,180
after

711
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:53,420
you

712
00:16:53,420 --> 00:16:53,640
in

713
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:53,920
relation

714
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:54,100
to

715
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:54,280
that

716
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:54,780
specific

717
00:16:54,780 --> 00:16:55,160
piece

718
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:55,340
of

719
00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:56,040
information

720
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:56,820
is

721
00:16:56,820 --> 00:16:57,120
actually

722
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:57,480
zero

723
00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:59,140
there may

724
00:16:59,140 --> 00:16:59,260
be

725
00:16:59,260 --> 00:16:59,580
incentives

726
00:16:59,580 --> 00:16:59,880
for them

727
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:00,160
to go

728
00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:00,680
after you

729
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,060
to teach

730
00:17:02,060 --> 00:17:02,400
a lesson

731
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:02,760
to other

732
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:03,080
people

733
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:03,500
who might

734
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:03,780
defy

735
00:17:03,780 --> 00:17:03,960
their

736
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:04,360
authority

737
00:17:04,360 --> 00:17:05,920
or to

738
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:06,160
teach

739
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:06,540
a future

740
00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:06,940
lesson

741
00:17:06,940 --> 00:17:08,160
to your

742
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:08,780
organization

743
00:17:08,780 --> 00:17:09,280
about

744
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,180
defiance

745
00:17:10,180 --> 00:17:10,380
of

746
00:17:10,380 --> 00:17:10,860
authority

747
00:17:10,860 --> 00:17:12,160
so

748
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:13,220
again

749
00:17:13,220 --> 00:17:13,720
to construct

750
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:14,180
the argument

751
00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:14,600
you

752
00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:15,900
were

753
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:16,400
concerned

754
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:16,860
that

755
00:17:16,860 --> 00:17:17,620
governments

756
00:17:17,620 --> 00:17:18,940
or whatever

757
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:19,860
would attack

758
00:17:19,860 --> 00:17:20,420
the front

759
00:17:20,420 --> 00:17:20,640
ends

760
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:20,940
of this

761
00:17:20,940 --> 00:17:21,240
thing

762
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:22,360
through

763
00:17:22,360 --> 00:17:22,780
either

764
00:17:22,780 --> 00:17:23,700
service

765
00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:24,300
attacks

766
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:24,780
or

767
00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:25,400
blocking

768
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,300
basically

769
00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:26,960
filtering

770
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:27,560
them out

771
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:28,580
which is

772
00:17:28,580 --> 00:17:28,820
that's

773
00:17:28,820 --> 00:17:29,020
where our

774
00:17:29,020 --> 00:17:29,540
succession

775
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:30,920
is commonly

776
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:31,260
done

777
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:32,300
so

778
00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:33,360
an important

779
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:34,240
aspect of

780
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:34,520
this was

781
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:34,980
to always

782
00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:35,660
be available

783
00:17:35,660 --> 00:17:37,860
always be

784
00:17:37,860 --> 00:17:38,120
available

785
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:38,600
in one particular

786
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:39,000
way or another

787
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:39,280
now

788
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:39,920
that's not

789
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:40,120
a

790
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:40,880
it's a battle

791
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:41,560
that we have

792
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:42,520
mostly won

793
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,040
but we haven't

794
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:43,660
completely won

795
00:17:43,660 --> 00:17:43,800
it

796
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:44,120
I mean

797
00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:44,820
within

798
00:17:44,820 --> 00:17:45,740
a few

799
00:17:45,740 --> 00:17:47,340
weeks

800
00:17:47,340 --> 00:17:47,940
the Chinese

801
00:17:47,940 --> 00:17:48,260
government

802
00:17:48,260 --> 00:17:48,700
had added

803
00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:48,960
us

804
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:49,460
to their

805
00:17:49,460 --> 00:17:51,080
to their

806
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:51,740
ban list

807
00:17:51,740 --> 00:17:52,880
but we had

808
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:53,400
hundreds of

809
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,080
domain names

810
00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,640
of various

811
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:57,140
sorts

812
00:17:57,140 --> 00:17:58,360
domain names

813
00:17:58,360 --> 00:17:58,880
that were

814
00:17:58,880 --> 00:17:59,420
registered

815
00:17:59,420 --> 00:18:00,600
with very

816
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:01,300
very large

817
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:02,200
DNS providers

818
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:03,120
so if there

819
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:03,560
was IP

820
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:04,140
level based

821
00:18:04,140 --> 00:18:04,580
filtering

822
00:18:04,580 --> 00:18:06,160
it would

823
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:06,580
whack out

824
00:18:06,580 --> 00:18:06,880
another

825
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:07,740
500,000

826
00:18:07,740 --> 00:18:08,200
domains

827
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:08,720
so that

828
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:09,220
would create

829
00:18:09,220 --> 00:18:10,220
a political

830
00:18:10,220 --> 00:18:10,800
back pressure

831
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:11,220
that would

832
00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:12,420
undo it

833
00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:15,380
however

834
00:18:15,380 --> 00:18:19,000
DNS

835
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:19,940
based

836
00:18:19,940 --> 00:18:22,440
filtering

837
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:23,920
still

838
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:24,460
hits us

839
00:18:24,460 --> 00:18:24,940
in China

840
00:18:24,940 --> 00:18:26,720
because

841
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,000
the most

842
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:29,440
common

843
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,040
names

844
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:30,940
the ones

845
00:18:30,940 --> 00:18:31,160
that are

846
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:32,060
closest to

847
00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:33,060
WikiLeaks

848
00:18:33,060 --> 00:18:34,140
the name

849
00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:34,520
that people

850
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:35,760
can communicate

851
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:36,220
easily

852
00:18:36,220 --> 00:18:38,060
they are

853
00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:38,560
all filtered

854
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:38,940
by the

855
00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:39,220
Chinese

856
00:18:39,220 --> 00:18:39,560
government

857
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,980
and any

858
00:18:41,980 --> 00:18:42,520
domain

859
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:43,280
with WikiLeaks

860
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,180
anywhere in it

861
00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:44,800
no matter where

862
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:45,220
it is

863
00:18:45,220 --> 00:18:46,060
it is filtered

864
00:18:46,060 --> 00:18:48,360
so that

865
00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:48,740
means there

866
00:18:48,740 --> 00:18:49,360
has to be

867
00:18:49,360 --> 00:18:50,060
a variant

868
00:18:50,060 --> 00:18:51,800
that they

869
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:52,180
haven't yet

870
00:18:52,180 --> 00:18:52,660
discovered

871
00:18:52,660 --> 00:18:54,380
but people

872
00:18:54,380 --> 00:18:56,220
the variant

873
00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:56,760
has to be

874
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,920
known widely

875
00:18:58,920 --> 00:18:59,380
enough

876
00:18:59,380 --> 00:19:00,960
for people

877
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,060
to go there

878
00:19:02,060 --> 00:19:02,860
so there is

879
00:19:02,860 --> 00:19:03,600
a catch-22

880
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,260
that's a

881
00:19:05,260 --> 00:19:05,880
structural problem

882
00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:06,100
with the

883
00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:06,420
naming of the

884
00:19:06,420 --> 00:19:06,600
internet

885
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:07,280
but the

886
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:07,780
Chinese would

887
00:19:07,780 --> 00:19:08,120
simply do

888
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:08,800
content filtering

889
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:09,160
on you

890
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:10,940
well HTTPS

891
00:19:10,940 --> 00:19:11,780
worked for

892
00:19:11,780 --> 00:19:13,540
about a year

893
00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:13,940
and a half

894
00:19:13,940 --> 00:19:16,460
worked quite

895
00:19:16,460 --> 00:19:16,740
well

896
00:19:16,740 --> 00:19:17,200
actually

897
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,660
and then

898
00:19:18,660 --> 00:19:19,200
changing

899
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,060
IPs

900
00:19:20,060 --> 00:19:20,640
also worked

901
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,840
the Chinese

902
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:23,160
internet

903
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:23,540
filtering

904
00:19:23,540 --> 00:19:24,000
system

905
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,160
is quite

906
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:25,680
baroque

907
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,000
and they've

908
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:27,600
evolved it

909
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:28,020
and sometimes

910
00:19:28,020 --> 00:19:28,600
they do things

911
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:29,000
manually

912
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:29,640
and sometimes

913
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:30,060
they do an

914
00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:30,920
automated way

915
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,240
in terms of

916
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:34,680
adding IPs

917
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:35,080
to the list

918
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:35,680
based upon

919
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:36,500
domain names

920
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:38,060
and then

921
00:19:38,060 --> 00:19:38,480
we did

922
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:39,740
we had a

923
00:19:39,740 --> 00:19:40,340
quite interesting

924
00:19:40,340 --> 00:19:41,180
battle where

925
00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:42,560
we saw that

926
00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:42,960
they were looking

927
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:43,980
up our IPs

928
00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:46,380
and we see

929
00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:46,800
that these

930
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:47,580
requests came

931
00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:48,280
from a certain

932
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,740
DNS block range

933
00:19:49,740 --> 00:19:50,240
in China

934
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:51,360
whenever we saw

935
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:51,920
that we just

936
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:52,620
then returned

937
00:19:52,620 --> 00:19:54,600
that's clever

938
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,940
different IPs

939
00:19:56,940 --> 00:19:58,120
I was actually

940
00:19:58,120 --> 00:19:58,760
thinking that we

941
00:19:58,760 --> 00:19:59,360
could return

942
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:00,820
public security

943
00:20:00,820 --> 00:20:01,800
bureau IPs

944
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,040
this is Jared

945
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,480
hi I'm so

946
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:04,720
sorry

947
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:05,440
we're late

948
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:06,260
flight delay

949
00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:06,860
please

950
00:20:06,860 --> 00:20:08,220
was it

951
00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:08,580
United

952
00:20:08,580 --> 00:20:09,200
or was it

953
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:09,700
Delta

954
00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:10,560
number 5

955
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:10,880
yeah

956
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:11,720
that's Delta

957
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:12,380
hi

958
00:20:12,380 --> 00:20:12,880
hi

959
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:13,600
hi

960
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:14,160
hi

961
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:14,280
hi

962
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:14,680
hi

963
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:14,820
hi

964
00:20:14,820 --> 00:20:14,840
hi

965
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:15,320
hi

966
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:15,400
hi

967
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:15,820
hi

968
00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:16,320
hi

969
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:16,880
hi

970
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,320
hi

971
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:17,820
hi

972
00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:18,400
hi

973
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,020
hi

974
00:20:19,020 --> 00:20:19,400
Scott

975
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:20,200
nice to meet

976
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:20,420
you

977
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:21,220
Scott is our

978
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:21,560
editor

979
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:22,800
sorry we're

980
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,200
an hour and a half

981
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:24,480
late

982
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,920
it's a useful day

983
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:27,260
to drive

984
00:20:27,260 --> 00:20:27,900
we've actually

985
00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:28,340
been having

986
00:20:28,340 --> 00:20:29,260
a really wonderful

987
00:20:29,260 --> 00:20:29,600
time

988
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,300
I'm sure

989
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:30,920
I'm sure

990
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:31,520
I'm sure

991
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:32,900
I'm sure

992
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:33,740
I'm sure

993
00:20:33,740 --> 00:20:34,740
anyway like

994
00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:36,980
Scott

995
00:20:36,980 --> 00:20:37,560
sit there

996
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:38,040
and you sit

997
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:38,340
here

998
00:20:38,340 --> 00:20:38,940
thanks to

999
00:20:38,940 --> 00:20:39,060
you

1000
00:20:39,060 --> 00:20:40,200
I don't know

1001
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:40,440
where you're

1002
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:40,980
sitting here

1003
00:20:40,980 --> 00:20:41,980
I'm type

1004
00:20:41,980 --> 00:20:42,320
have a seat

1005
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:42,980
joining us

1006
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:43,640
yeah

1007
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,540
Julian was kind

1008
00:20:45,540 --> 00:20:45,720
enough

1009
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:46,180
since we

1010
00:20:46,180 --> 00:20:47,300
did not bring a

1011
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:47,720
tape recorder

1012
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:49,800
it was the first

1013
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:50,100
time

1014
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:50,500
it's quite

1015
00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:50,880
embarrassing

1016
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:51,180
on this

1017
00:20:51,180 --> 00:20:51,360
ad

1018
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:52,320
that you're

1019
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:52,740
asking

1020
00:20:52,740 --> 00:20:53,660
if you could

1021
00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:54,000
borrow a

1022
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:54,500
tape recorder

1023
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:56,320
a friend

1024
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:57,140
a friend of mine

1025
00:20:57,140 --> 00:20:58,380
did an interview

1026
00:20:58,380 --> 00:20:59,560
on PG's

1027
00:20:59,560 --> 00:20:59,980
staff

1028
00:20:59,980 --> 00:21:01,440
General Ram

1029
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:01,820
Booker's

1030
00:21:01,820 --> 00:21:02,180
coup

1031
00:21:02,180 --> 00:21:03,740
where he had

1032
00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:04,480
General Ram

1033
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:04,800
Booker's

1034
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:05,760
second in command

1035
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:06,860
admit

1036
00:21:06,860 --> 00:21:07,800
on tape

1037
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:09,360
that

1038
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,440
the CIA

1039
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:12,180
had paid him

1040
00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:12,440
off

1041
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,300
and he got

1042
00:21:14,300 --> 00:21:14,720
back

1043
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:15,600
and he was

1044
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:15,920
like

1045
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:16,400
yes

1046
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:16,840
this is

1047
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,120
a story

1048
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:18,660
for a decade

1049
00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:19,240
and

1050
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,040
it failed

1051
00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,420
so I have

1052
00:21:22,420 --> 00:21:22,760
lots of

1053
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:22,920
these

1054
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:23,140
now

1055
00:21:23,140 --> 00:21:24,560
you should

1056
00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:24,960
always

1057
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,440
always have

1058
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:26,680
your own

1059
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:28,240
so

1060
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:29,780
for Scott

1061
00:21:29,780 --> 00:21:29,980
and

1062
00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:33,300
we spent

1063
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:33,680
a fair amount

1064
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:33,900
of time

1065
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:34,540
just chatting

1066
00:21:34,540 --> 00:21:34,880
about

1067
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:35,660
Google

1068
00:21:35,660 --> 00:21:36,060
and what I

1069
00:21:36,060 --> 00:21:36,700
was up to

1070
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:37,400
introduce Lisa

1071
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,320
I failed

1072
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:39,960
to properly

1073
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,100
what a brilliant

1074
00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:41,500
book we're

1075
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:42,440
working on

1076
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,680
and Lisa

1077
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:44,700
assisted me

1078
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:45,500
clearly

1079
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:45,960
seemed to be

1080
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:46,960
okay with

1081
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:47,760
her assist

1082
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,560
and what we

1083
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:51,320
agreed was

1084
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,140
that we

1085
00:21:52,140 --> 00:21:52,460
would

1086
00:21:52,460 --> 00:21:54,120
talk about

1087
00:21:54,120 --> 00:21:54,580
technology

1088
00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:55,120
directions

1089
00:21:55,120 --> 00:21:56,740
and maybe

1090
00:21:56,740 --> 00:21:57,260
the implications

1091
00:21:57,260 --> 00:21:57,760
of all of

1092
00:21:57,760 --> 00:21:57,980
this

1093
00:21:57,980 --> 00:21:59,200
and the deal

1094
00:21:59,200 --> 00:21:59,640
was that

1095
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:00,180
they would be

1096
00:22:00,180 --> 00:22:00,920
on the record

1097
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:01,680
for the book

1098
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,580
we would have

1099
00:22:03,580 --> 00:22:04,160
a transcript

1100
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:04,720
prepared

1101
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:05,520
we would have

1102
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:06,020
an opportunity

1103
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:07,580
to modify

1104
00:22:07,580 --> 00:22:08,340
extend

1105
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:09,200
improve its

1106
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:09,620
clarity

1107
00:22:09,620 --> 00:22:10,360
which all

1108
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:10,500
seemed

1109
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:11,420
possible to

1110
00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:11,620
make

1111
00:22:11,620 --> 00:22:12,580
so

1112
00:22:12,580 --> 00:22:13,600
we just

1113
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:13,900
started

1114
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:14,620
talked a

1115
00:22:14,620 --> 00:22:14,880
little bit

1116
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:15,100
about

1117
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:19,040
the general

1118
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:19,740
principles

1119
00:22:19,740 --> 00:22:20,540
that he's

1120
00:22:20,540 --> 00:22:20,940
articulated

1121
00:22:20,940 --> 00:22:21,460
and I was

1122
00:22:21,460 --> 00:22:21,840
just starting

1123
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:22,240
to talk

1124
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:22,520
a little bit

1125
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:22,860
about the

1126
00:22:22,860 --> 00:22:23,240
structure

1127
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,700
and why

1128
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:25,580
Lisa's been

1129
00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:26,240
architected

1130
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:26,960
the way it is

1131
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,460
and the rough

1132
00:22:29,460 --> 00:22:30,160
summary there

1133
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:30,820
is that

1134
00:22:30,820 --> 00:22:32,700
the concern

1135
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:33,660
that he had

1136
00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:34,400
in architecting

1137
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:35,120
this was that

1138
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:36,680
if you look at

1139
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:37,380
the government's

1140
00:22:37,380 --> 00:22:37,580
you know

1141
00:22:37,580 --> 00:22:38,380
the sort of

1142
00:22:38,380 --> 00:22:40,580
the stuff that

1143
00:22:40,580 --> 00:22:40,900
they do

1144
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:41,600
the murder

1145
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:42,140
journalists

1146
00:22:42,140 --> 00:22:43,340
prison journalists

1147
00:22:43,340 --> 00:22:43,900
and that kind of

1148
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:44,200
stuff

1149
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,680
his view was

1150
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:46,600
that we want

1151
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:47,260
to attack that

1152
00:22:47,260 --> 00:22:48,140
problem by making

1153
00:22:48,140 --> 00:22:48,780
a system that

1154
00:22:48,780 --> 00:22:49,660
was very very

1155
00:22:49,660 --> 00:22:50,720
hard block

1156
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,500
so the

1157
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:54,520
non-technical

1158
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,180
explanation of

1159
00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:55,720
what he did

1160
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:56,300
is that he

1161
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:57,620
built a

1162
00:22:57,620 --> 00:22:58,320
system where

1163
00:22:58,320 --> 00:22:58,920
if they do

1164
00:22:58,920 --> 00:22:59,460
the obvious

1165
00:22:59,460 --> 00:22:59,940
things to

1166
00:22:59,940 --> 00:23:00,440
block them

1167
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:00,960
it can

1168
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,020
show up

1169
00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:03,300
in another

1170
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:04,920
change its

1171
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:05,280
name

1172
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:06,980
and have

1173
00:23:06,980 --> 00:23:07,380
a replica

1174
00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:14,600
the replicating

1175
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:15,180
thing is

1176
00:23:15,180 --> 00:23:16,300
very interesting

1177
00:23:16,300 --> 00:23:20,880
we developed

1178
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:21,800
internal systems

1179
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:22,340
to do some

1180
00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:22,700
of these

1181
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:24,420
fast replicas

1182
00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:25,660
not

1183
00:23:25,660 --> 00:23:27,840
quite unsophisticated

1184
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:28,140
but

1185
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:29,880
worked quickly

1186
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:31,960
but I

1187
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:32,920
think this is

1188
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,380
I've been

1189
00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:34,800
thinking about

1190
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:35,480
this for a

1191
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,080
while now

1192
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,580
I think

1193
00:23:39,580 --> 00:23:41,300
that the

1194
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:41,840
naming of

1195
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:42,260
things is

1196
00:23:42,260 --> 00:23:42,940
very important

1197
00:23:42,940 --> 00:23:44,220
and the

1198
00:23:44,220 --> 00:23:44,580
naming

1199
00:23:44,580 --> 00:23:47,020
of human

1200
00:23:47,020 --> 00:23:47,980
intellectual

1201
00:23:47,980 --> 00:23:48,840
work

1202
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,320
and our

1203
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:50,780
entire

1204
00:23:50,780 --> 00:23:51,420
intellectual

1205
00:23:51,420 --> 00:23:51,940
record

1206
00:23:51,940 --> 00:23:54,080
is possibly

1207
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:54,640
the most

1208
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:55,040
important

1209
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:55,320
thing

1210
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:56,520
so we

1211
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:56,940
all have

1212
00:23:56,940 --> 00:23:57,500
words

1213
00:23:57,500 --> 00:23:58,540
for different

1214
00:23:58,540 --> 00:23:59,020
objects

1215
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:01,340
like tomato

1216
00:24:01,340 --> 00:24:03,700
but we

1217
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:04,320
use a simple

1218
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:04,720
word

1219
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,580
tomato

1220
00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:06,620
instead of

1221
00:24:06,620 --> 00:24:06,960
actually

1222
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:07,500
describing

1223
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:08,080
every little

1224
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:08,780
aspect of

1225
00:24:08,780 --> 00:24:09,200
the goddamn

1226
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:09,640
tomato

1227
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:10,880
because it

1228
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:11,300
takes too

1229
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:11,580
long

1230
00:24:11,580 --> 00:24:14,500
because it

1231
00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:14,920
takes too

1232
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:15,100
long

1233
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:15,240
to

1234
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:15,620
describe

1235
00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:16,000
this

1236
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:16,520
tomato

1237
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,260
precisely

1238
00:24:18,260 --> 00:24:19,880
we use

1239
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:20,480
an abstraction

1240
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:21,420
so we can

1241
00:24:21,420 --> 00:24:22,000
think about it

1242
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:22,400
and so we can

1243
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:23,160
talk about it

1244
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,220
and we do

1245
00:24:25,220 --> 00:24:25,780
that also

1246
00:24:25,780 --> 00:24:26,200
when we

1247
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:26,540
use

1248
00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:28,140
URLs

1249
00:24:28,140 --> 00:24:31,200
those are

1250
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,420
frequently used

1251
00:24:32,420 --> 00:24:34,040
as a

1252
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:35,180
short name

1253
00:24:35,180 --> 00:24:36,480
for some

1254
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,060
human

1255
00:24:38,060 --> 00:24:40,160
intellectual content

1256
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,560
and we

1257
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:42,940
build

1258
00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:43,760
all our

1259
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:44,280
civilization

1260
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:45,020
other than

1261
00:24:45,020 --> 00:24:45,580
on bricks

1262
00:24:45,580 --> 00:24:47,260
on human

1263
00:24:47,260 --> 00:24:48,140
intellectual content

1264
00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:50,740
and so

1265
00:24:50,740 --> 00:24:51,540
we currently

1266
00:24:51,540 --> 00:24:52,140
have a system

1267
00:24:52,140 --> 00:24:52,820
with URLs

1268
00:24:52,820 --> 00:24:55,920
where the

1269
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:56,520
structure we

1270
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:56,920
are building

1271
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:57,620
our civilization

1272
00:24:57,620 --> 00:24:58,580
out of

1273
00:24:58,580 --> 00:24:59,900
is the

1274
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:00,680
worst kind

1275
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,800
of melting

1276
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:02,460
plasticine

1277
00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:03,120
imaginable

1278
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,780
and that's

1279
00:25:05,780 --> 00:25:06,400
a big problem

1280
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,200
and you

1281
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:07,540
would argue

1282
00:25:07,540 --> 00:25:07,880
a different

1283
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:08,400
namespace

1284
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:08,880
structure

1285
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,420
to evolve

1286
00:25:09,420 --> 00:25:11,160
well I think

1287
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,020
there's a

1288
00:25:13,020 --> 00:25:13,380
fundamental

1289
00:25:13,380 --> 00:25:14,180
confusion

1290
00:25:14,180 --> 00:25:15,360
and overloading

1291
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:15,600
of the

1292
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:16,200
URL

1293
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:16,780
idea

1294
00:25:16,780 --> 00:25:18,620
so on the

1295
00:25:18,620 --> 00:25:19,140
one hand

1296
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:19,660
you have

1297
00:25:19,660 --> 00:25:22,360
live dynamic

1298
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:23,160
services

1299
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,940
and organizations

1300
00:25:25,940 --> 00:25:26,980
well there's

1301
00:25:26,980 --> 00:25:27,380
three things

1302
00:25:27,380 --> 00:25:28,120
live dynamic

1303
00:25:28,120 --> 00:25:28,580
services

1304
00:25:28,580 --> 00:25:29,340
organizations

1305
00:25:29,340 --> 00:25:29,820
that run

1306
00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:30,440
those services

1307
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:30,940
so you're

1308
00:25:30,940 --> 00:25:31,440
referring to

1309
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:32,040
a hierarchy

1310
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:32,840
you're referring

1311
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,080
to a system

1312
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:34,980
of control

1313
00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:37,120
an organization

1314
00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:37,980
a government

1315
00:25:37,980 --> 00:25:41,740
that represents

1316
00:25:41,740 --> 00:25:43,060
an organized

1317
00:25:43,060 --> 00:25:43,900
controlling

1318
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:44,340
group

1319
00:25:44,340 --> 00:25:45,720
and on the

1320
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:46,380
other hand

1321
00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:47,600
you have

1322
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:49,060
artifacts

1323
00:25:49,060 --> 00:25:50,460
you have

1324
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:51,180
human

1325
00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:51,880
intellectual

1326
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:52,360
artifacts

1327
00:25:52,360 --> 00:25:57,000
that have

1328
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:57,480
the ability

1329
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:58,180
to actually

1330
00:25:58,180 --> 00:25:58,920
be completely

1331
00:25:58,920 --> 00:25:59,440
independent

1332
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:00,320
from any

1333
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:01,400
system

1334
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:02,340
of human

1335
00:26:02,340 --> 00:26:02,860
control

1336
00:26:02,860 --> 00:26:04,080
they are

1337
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:04,940
out there

1338
00:26:04,940 --> 00:26:05,500
in the

1339
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,700
platonic

1340
00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:09,060
realm

1341
00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:10,520
somehow

1342
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,160
and

1343
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,620
shouldn't

1344
00:26:13,620 --> 00:26:14,040
in fact

1345
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:14,660
be referred

1346
00:26:14,660 --> 00:26:15,040
to

1347
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:16,520
by an

1348
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:17,080
organization

1349
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:17,660
they should

1350
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:18,100
be referred

1351
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:18,800
to in a

1352
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,100
way that

1353
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:19,660
is intrinsic

1354
00:26:19,660 --> 00:26:20,600
to the

1355
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:20,900
intellectual

1356
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:21,300
context

1357
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:22,140
that arises

1358
00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:23,060
out of

1359
00:26:23,060 --> 00:26:23,480
the intellectual

1360
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:23,900
context

1361
00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:25,980
so

1362
00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:27,680
actually I

1363
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:28,080
think that

1364
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:28,920
is an

1365
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,280
inevitable

1366
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:29,760
and very

1367
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:30,160
important

1368
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:30,780
way forward

1369
00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:33,020
and where

1370
00:26:33,020 --> 00:26:33,360
this

1371
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:34,340
where I

1372
00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:36,140
saw that

1373
00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:36,400
this was

1374
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:36,900
a problem

1375
00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:39,260
was dealing

1376
00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:40,320
with

1377
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,380
a man

1378
00:26:42,380 --> 00:26:42,700
by the

1379
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:43,100
name of

1380
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:43,640
Nahadimi

1381
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:44,160
Alki

1382
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,420
so

1383
00:26:46,420 --> 00:26:48,240
he

1384
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,080
a few

1385
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:50,600
years ago

1386
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,220
was listed

1387
00:26:51,220 --> 00:26:53,740
by one

1388
00:26:53,740 --> 00:26:53,900
of the

1389
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:54,620
big business

1390
00:26:54,620 --> 00:26:55,160
magazines

1391
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:55,440
in the

1392
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:55,620
UK

1393
00:26:55,620 --> 00:26:56,000
as the

1394
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:56,460
fifth richest

1395
00:26:56,460 --> 00:26:56,900
man in

1396
00:26:56,900 --> 00:26:57,160
the UK

1397
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,900
and he

1398
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:01,460
in 1980

1399
00:27:01,460 --> 00:27:03,020
left

1400
00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:04,160
Iraq

1401
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:05,180
he'd grown

1402
00:27:05,180 --> 00:27:05,800
rich under

1403
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:06,620
Saddam Hussein's

1404
00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:07,160
oil ministry

1405
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,120
and is

1406
00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:10,400
alleged by the

1407
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:10,960
Italian press

1408
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:11,580
to be involved

1409
00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:11,940
in a lot of

1410
00:27:11,940 --> 00:27:12,440
arms trading

1411
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:13,080
bear and has

1412
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:13,700
over 200

1413
00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:14,440
companies run

1414
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:14,900
out of his

1415
00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:15,460
Luxembourg

1416
00:27:15,460 --> 00:27:16,140
holding unit

1417
00:27:16,140 --> 00:27:17,400
and several

1418
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:17,700
that we

1419
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:18,280
discovered in

1420
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:18,580
Panama

1421
00:27:18,580 --> 00:27:21,080
has infiltrated

1422
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:22,460
the British

1423
00:27:22,460 --> 00:27:23,700
Labour political

1424
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:24,280
establishment

1425
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,020
to the degree

1426
00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:25,600
that on

1427
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,860
the 20th

1428
00:27:27,860 --> 00:27:28,880
business birthday

1429
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:29,920
in London

1430
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,100
he was given

1431
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:31,540
a painting

1432
00:27:31,540 --> 00:27:32,080
signed by

1433
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,040
146

1434
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:33,920
members of

1435
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:34,320
Commons

1436
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,480
including

1437
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,040
Tony Blair

1438
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,080
he's the

1439
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:39,640
same guy

1440
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,140
who was a

1441
00:27:40,140 --> 00:27:40,400
principal

1442
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:41,060
financier

1443
00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:41,940
Tony Resco

1444
00:27:41,940 --> 00:27:44,900
Tony Resco

1445
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:45,620
was the

1446
00:27:45,620 --> 00:27:46,580
financier

1447
00:27:46,580 --> 00:27:47,600
and fundraiser

1448
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,100
of Roy

1449
00:27:49,100 --> 00:27:49,920
Blagojevich

1450
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:51,040
from Chicago

1451
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:52,840
convicted of

1452
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:53,180
corruption

1453
00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:53,900
Tony Resco

1454
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:54,160
has been

1455
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:54,700
convicted of

1456
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:55,080
corruption

1457
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:56,740
and

1458
00:27:56,740 --> 00:27:57,960
Barack Obama

1459
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,340
he was

1460
00:28:01,340 --> 00:28:01,960
the

1461
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:02,880
intermediary

1462
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:03,260
who

1463
00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:04,460
helped

1464
00:28:04,460 --> 00:28:05,380
Barack Obama

1465
00:28:05,380 --> 00:28:05,860
buy one

1466
00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:06,320
of his

1467
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:06,640
houses

1468
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,720
money

1469
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:09,000
not

1470
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:09,360
directly

1471
00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:09,700
for the

1472
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:10,000
house

1473
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:10,280
but

1474
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,780
boy

1475
00:28:11,780 --> 00:28:12,300
Tony

1476
00:28:12,300 --> 00:28:12,860
Resco's

1477
00:28:12,860 --> 00:28:13,340
finances

1478
00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:13,900
came from

1479
00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:14,060
that

1480
00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:14,200
in

1481
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:14,500
Washington

1482
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:15,580
so

1483
00:28:15,580 --> 00:28:16,120
during

1484
00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:16,560
the

1485
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:17,920
this is

1486
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:18,300
detailed

1487
00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:18,580
but it

1488
00:28:18,580 --> 00:28:18,860
will get

1489
00:28:18,860 --> 00:28:19,240
to a point

1490
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:20,060
during

1491
00:28:20,060 --> 00:28:20,420
the

1492
00:28:20,420 --> 00:28:21,780
2008

1493
00:28:21,780 --> 00:28:22,680
presidential

1494
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:23,360
primaries

1495
00:28:23,360 --> 00:28:24,460
a lot

1496
00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:24,540
of

1497
00:28:24,540 --> 00:28:24,920
attention

1498
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:25,440
was

1499
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:25,760
turned

1500
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,140
towards

1501
00:28:26,140 --> 00:28:26,440
Barack

1502
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:26,760
Obama

1503
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:27,120
by

1504
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:27,540
the

1505
00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:27,700
US

1506
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:28,100
press

1507
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:29,640
surprisingly

1508
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,720
and so

1509
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:31,900
it

1510
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:32,500
started to

1511
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:33,000
look into

1512
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:33,520
who were

1513
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:33,700
his

1514
00:28:33,700 --> 00:28:34,380
fundraisers

1515
00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:35,640
discovered

1516
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:36,360
Tony

1517
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:36,820
Resco

1518
00:28:36,820 --> 00:28:39,120
and then

1519
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:40,360
they just

1520
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:40,720
started

1521
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:41,720
to turn

1522
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:42,280
their eyes

1523
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:42,760
towards

1524
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:43,760
Nahadim

1525
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,180
Alchi

1526
00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:46,980
Alchi

1527
00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:47,920
then hired

1528
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:48,740
Carter

1529
00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:49,060
Ruck

1530
00:28:49,060 --> 00:28:49,480
a rather

1531
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:50,180
notorious

1532
00:28:50,180 --> 00:28:52,100
firm of

1533
00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:52,420
London

1534
00:28:52,420 --> 00:28:52,980
libel

1535
00:28:52,980 --> 00:28:54,160
solicitors

1536
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,180
whose

1537
00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:58,600
founder

1538
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,120
Carter

1539
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:01,440
Ruck

1540
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:02,600
has been

1541
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:03,180
described

1542
00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:03,640
or doing

1543
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:04,120
for freedom

1544
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:04,560
of speech

1545
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:04,920
what

1546
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,120
the Boston

1547
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:06,660
Strangler

1548
00:29:06,660 --> 00:29:07,020
did for

1549
00:29:07,020 --> 00:29:07,360
door-to-door

1550
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:07,880
salesman

1551
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,900
and he

1552
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:12,500
started

1553
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:13,220
writing

1554
00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:13,700
letters

1555
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:14,120
to all

1556
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:14,420
the London

1557
00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:14,900
papers

1558
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:15,560
that had

1559
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:17,900
records

1560
00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:18,460
of his

1561
00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:19,540
2003

1562
00:29:19,540 --> 00:29:20,260
extradition

1563
00:29:20,260 --> 00:29:20,780
to France

1564
00:29:20,780 --> 00:29:21,360
and conviction

1565
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:22,020
for corruption

1566
00:29:22,020 --> 00:29:22,660
in France

1567
00:29:22,660 --> 00:29:23,260
over the

1568
00:29:23,260 --> 00:29:23,440
Alpha

1569
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:23,920
Akatine

1570
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:24,380
scandal

1571
00:29:24,380 --> 00:29:25,960
where he

1572
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:26,560
had been

1573
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:26,980
involved

1574
00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:27,500
in taking

1575
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:28,020
kickbacks

1576
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:28,840
on selling

1577
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,380
the

1578
00:29:32,380 --> 00:29:33,420
invaded

1579
00:29:33,420 --> 00:29:34,060
Kuwaiti

1580
00:29:34,060 --> 00:29:35,340
government's

1581
00:29:35,340 --> 00:29:36,420
oil

1582
00:29:36,420 --> 00:29:37,180
refineries

1583
00:29:37,180 --> 00:29:39,780
in order

1584
00:29:39,780 --> 00:29:40,560
to fund

1585
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:40,900
their

1586
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:42,080
operations

1587
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:42,580
why

1588
00:29:42,580 --> 00:29:43,740
Iraq

1589
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:44,340
had occupied

1590
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:44,580
it

1591
00:29:44,580 --> 00:29:45,960
so

1592
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,920
the

1593
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:48,280
Guardian

1594
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:48,960
pulled

1595
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:49,260
three

1596
00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:49,860
articles

1597
00:29:49,860 --> 00:29:51,760
from

1598
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:52,400
2003

1599
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,460
so they

1600
00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:53,840
were five

1601
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,280
years old

1602
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:54,580
they'd been

1603
00:29:54,580 --> 00:29:54,760
in the

1604
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:55,160
Guardian's

1605
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:55,920
archive for

1606
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,540
five years

1607
00:29:56,540 --> 00:29:58,440
without saying

1608
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:58,900
anything

1609
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:00,540
if you go to

1610
00:30:00,540 --> 00:30:01,060
those URLs

1611
00:30:01,060 --> 00:30:01,520
you will not

1612
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:01,800
see

1613
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,000
removed due

1614
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:03,400
to legal

1615
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:03,760
threat

1616
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,960
you will

1617
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:05,340
see page

1618
00:30:05,340 --> 00:30:05,780
not found

1619
00:30:05,780 --> 00:30:08,920
and one

1620
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:09,160
from the

1621
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:09,660
Telegraph

1622
00:30:09,660 --> 00:30:10,360
and a

1623
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:10,640
bunch

1624
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:11,700
from some

1625
00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:12,040
American

1626
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:12,640
publications

1627
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,700
and bloggers

1628
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:14,720
and so on

1629
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:15,800
so actually

1630
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,440
important bits

1631
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:17,960
of history

1632
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,120
recent history

1633
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,020
that were

1634
00:30:21,020 --> 00:30:23,100
relevant to

1635
00:30:23,100 --> 00:30:24,300
an ongoing

1636
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:25,000
presidential

1637
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:25,520
campaign

1638
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:25,740
in the

1639
00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:26,400
United States

1640
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,020
were pulled

1641
00:30:28,020 --> 00:30:29,060
out of

1642
00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:29,160
the

1643
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:29,500
intellectual

1644
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:29,840
record

1645
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:30,940
they were

1646
00:30:30,940 --> 00:30:31,500
also pulled

1647
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:31,840
out of

1648
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:32,520
the Guardian's

1649
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:33,280
index of

1650
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:33,700
articles

1651
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:35,480
so why

1652
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:36,620
the Guardian's

1653
00:30:36,620 --> 00:30:37,020
published in

1654
00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:37,460
print and you

1655
00:30:37,460 --> 00:30:38,000
can go to

1656
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:38,520
the library

1657
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:39,100
and look up

1658
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:39,780
those articles

1659
00:30:39,780 --> 00:30:40,220
they're still

1660
00:30:40,220 --> 00:30:40,720
there in the

1661
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:41,000
library

1662
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:44,140
how would you

1663
00:30:44,140 --> 00:30:44,560
know that they

1664
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:44,940
were there in

1665
00:30:44,940 --> 00:30:45,360
the library

1666
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:46,600
to look up

1667
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:47,040
because they're

1668
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,440
not there in

1669
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:47,940
the Guardian's

1670
00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:48,340
index

1671
00:30:48,340 --> 00:30:50,340
not only have

1672
00:30:50,340 --> 00:30:50,820
they ceased

1673
00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:51,240
to exist

1674
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,000
they have ceased

1675
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:52,380
to have

1676
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:52,940
ever have

1677
00:30:52,940 --> 00:30:53,340
existed

1678
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:56,020
which is

1679
00:30:56,020 --> 00:30:56,360
the

1680
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:57,920
modern

1681
00:30:57,920 --> 00:30:59,760
implementation

1682
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:00,640
of Orwell's

1683
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:00,980
dictum

1684
00:31:00,980 --> 00:31:02,220
that he

1685
00:31:02,220 --> 00:31:03,000
controls the

1686
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:03,400
present

1687
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:03,980
controls the

1688
00:31:03,980 --> 00:31:04,380
past

1689
00:31:04,380 --> 00:31:04,740
and he

1690
00:31:04,740 --> 00:31:05,220
controls the

1691
00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:05,580
past

1692
00:31:05,580 --> 00:31:06,480
controls the

1693
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:06,740
future

1694
00:31:06,740 --> 00:31:07,140
because the

1695
00:31:07,140 --> 00:31:07,880
past is

1696
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,440
stored

1697
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,320
physically

1698
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,240
in the

1699
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:10,600
present

1700
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:11,520
or records

1701
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:11,720
of the

1702
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:11,960
past

1703
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:12,920
so

1704
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,920
this

1705
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:16,800
issue

1706
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,200
of

1707
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,360
preserving

1708
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:20,520
politically

1709
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,560
salient

1710
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:22,440
intellectual

1711
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:23,000
content

1712
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,440
while it's

1713
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,220
under attack

1714
00:31:25,220 --> 00:31:26,720
is central

1715
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:27,140
to what we

1716
00:31:27,140 --> 00:31:27,520
hear links

1717
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:27,780
does

1718
00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:29,100
because that's

1719
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:29,460
what we're

1720
00:31:29,460 --> 00:31:29,800
after

1721
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:30,660
we're after

1722
00:31:30,660 --> 00:31:31,540
those bits

1723
00:31:31,540 --> 00:31:32,540
that people

1724
00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:33,080
are trying to

1725
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:33,500
suppress

1726
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:34,400
because we

1727
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:35,360
suspect usually

1728
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:35,840
rightly

1729
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,980
that they're

1730
00:31:37,980 --> 00:31:38,800
expending

1731
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:39,740
economic work

1732
00:31:39,740 --> 00:31:40,380
on suppressing

1733
00:31:40,380 --> 00:31:41,120
those bits

1734
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,020
because they

1735
00:31:44,020 --> 00:31:45,400
perceive that

1736
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:45,800
they're going

1737
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:46,260
to induce

1738
00:31:46,260 --> 00:31:47,040
some change

1739
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:47,960
so it's the

1740
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:48,540
evidence of

1741
00:31:48,540 --> 00:31:49,040
the suppression

1742
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:49,580
that you look

1743
00:31:49,580 --> 00:31:50,220
for in order to

1744
00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:51,020
determine value

1745
00:31:51,020 --> 00:31:52,060
yeah that's

1746
00:31:52,060 --> 00:31:52,680
that's a very

1747
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:53,440
good not

1748
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:54,220
precisely but

1749
00:31:54,220 --> 00:31:54,720
it's a very

1750
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:55,600
well tell me

1751
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:56,040
precisely

1752
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:57,500
well it's not

1753
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:58,200
precise it's not

1754
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:58,800
always right

1755
00:31:58,800 --> 00:31:59,960
it's a very

1756
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:00,480
suggestive

1757
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:01,120
it's not perfect

1758
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,240
it's a very

1759
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:03,220
suggestive signal

1760
00:32:03,220 --> 00:32:05,380
that the people

1761
00:32:05,380 --> 00:32:05,780
who know the

1762
00:32:05,780 --> 00:32:06,540
information best

1763
00:32:06,540 --> 00:32:07,280
the people who

1764
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,320
wrote it

1765
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:09,700
are spending

1766
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:10,720
economic work

1767
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,620
in preventing

1768
00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:14,400
it going into

1769
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:14,980
the historical

1770
00:32:14,980 --> 00:32:15,460
record

1771
00:32:15,460 --> 00:32:16,360
preventing it

1772
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:16,860
going into

1773
00:32:16,860 --> 00:32:17,320
the public

1774
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,360
why spend

1775
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:20,280
so much work

1776
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:20,940
doing that

1777
00:32:20,940 --> 00:32:22,240
it's more

1778
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:22,720
efficient

1779
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:23,460
to just

1780
00:32:23,460 --> 00:32:24,120
let everyone

1781
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:24,900
have it

1782
00:32:24,900 --> 00:32:25,380
you don't have

1783
00:32:25,380 --> 00:32:25,700
to spend

1784
00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:26,340
time guarding

1785
00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:26,920
it but also

1786
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:27,360
you're all

1787
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:28,380
efficient

1788
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:28,740
in terms of

1789
00:32:28,740 --> 00:32:29,300
your organisation

1790
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:31,700
because all

1791
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:32,180
the positive

1792
00:32:32,180 --> 00:32:32,600
unintended

1793
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,400
consequences of

1794
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:33,900
the information

1795
00:32:33,900 --> 00:32:34,440
going around

1796
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:35,140
can come out

1797
00:32:35,140 --> 00:32:39,540
so we selectively

1798
00:32:39,540 --> 00:32:40,160
go after that

1799
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,440
information

1800
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:44,680
and that

1801
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:45,140
information

1802
00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:45,820
selectively

1803
00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:46,360
suppress

1804
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:47,100
insights

1805
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:48,260
organizations

1806
00:32:48,260 --> 00:32:50,220
and very

1807
00:32:50,220 --> 00:32:50,660
frequently

1808
00:32:50,660 --> 00:32:51,080
it's a

1809
00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:51,400
powerful

1810
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:51,800
group

1811
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,500
as soon

1812
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:52,820
as someone

1813
00:32:52,820 --> 00:32:53,280
tries to

1814
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:53,580
publish

1815
00:32:53,580 --> 00:32:53,780
it

1816
00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:54,380
is also

1817
00:32:54,380 --> 00:32:55,680
suppressed

1818
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:56,260
so

1819
00:32:56,260 --> 00:32:57,640
just to

1820
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:58,140
I want to

1821
00:32:58,140 --> 00:32:58,340
talk a little

1822
00:32:58,340 --> 00:32:58,560
bit more

1823
00:32:58,560 --> 00:32:58,780
about the

1824
00:32:58,780 --> 00:32:59,260
technology

1825
00:32:59,260 --> 00:33:01,900
so in this

1826
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:02,320
structure

1827
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:03,880
you basically

1828
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:04,100
have

1829
00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:04,240
you

1830
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:04,840
basically

1831
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:05,180
you could

1832
00:33:05,180 --> 00:33:05,660
put up

1833
00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:05,900
a new

1834
00:33:05,900 --> 00:33:06,180
front end

1835
00:33:06,180 --> 00:33:06,660
very quickly

1836
00:33:06,660 --> 00:33:08,060
and you

1837
00:33:08,060 --> 00:33:08,480
have

1838
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:09,440
stored

1839
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:09,980
replicas

1840
00:33:09,980 --> 00:33:10,560
that are

1841
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:11,080
distributed

1842
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:12,760
one of the

1843
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:12,940
questions

1844
00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:13,800
is how

1845
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:14,120
do you

1846
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:14,760
decide

1847
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:15,140
which

1848
00:33:15,140 --> 00:33:15,920
ISPs

1849
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,540
okay

1850
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:18,060
it's a

1851
00:33:18,060 --> 00:33:18,340
very good

1852
00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:18,740
question

1853
00:33:18,740 --> 00:33:20,240
again

1854
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:21,280
it's a pretty

1855
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:21,780
complicated

1856
00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:22,340
question

1857
00:33:22,340 --> 00:33:22,840
yeah

1858
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,600
so

1859
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,320
I'll give you

1860
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:27,700
example

1861
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:28,100
about how

1862
00:33:28,100 --> 00:33:28,440
not to

1863
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:28,640
choose

1864
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:28,860
them

1865
00:33:28,860 --> 00:33:29,740
so we

1866
00:33:29,740 --> 00:33:29,960
dealt

1867
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:30,320
with a

1868
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:30,720
case

1869
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,620
Turks and

1870
00:33:32,620 --> 00:33:32,900
Caicos

1871
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:33,280
Islands

1872
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,260
where there

1873
00:33:34,260 --> 00:33:34,740
was a

1874
00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:36,060
great little

1875
00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:36,380
group

1876
00:33:36,380 --> 00:33:36,680
called

1877
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:36,900
the

1878
00:33:36,900 --> 00:33:37,960
TCI

1879
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,360
Journal

1880
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:38,840
Turks and

1881
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:39,180
Caicos

1882
00:33:39,180 --> 00:33:39,540
Islands

1883
00:33:39,540 --> 00:33:39,840
Journal

1884
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:40,540
which is

1885
00:33:40,540 --> 00:33:40,780
sort of

1886
00:33:40,780 --> 00:33:41,160
a best

1887
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:41,860
use case

1888
00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:42,500
for the

1889
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:42,760
internet

1890
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:43,800
so

1891
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:45,780
who are

1892
00:33:45,780 --> 00:33:45,960
they

1893
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:46,160
well

1894
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:46,340
they're

1895
00:33:46,340 --> 00:33:46,680
a bunch

1896
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:47,060
of

1897
00:33:47,060 --> 00:33:49,040
political

1898
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:49,840
reformers

1899
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:50,960
ecologically

1900
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:51,320
minded

1901
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:51,700
people

1902
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:52,220
in Turks and

1903
00:33:52,220 --> 00:33:52,460
Caicos

1904
00:33:52,460 --> 00:33:52,780
Islands

1905
00:33:52,780 --> 00:33:53,180
who lived

1906
00:33:53,180 --> 00:33:53,460
there

1907
00:33:53,460 --> 00:33:54,880
who saw

1908
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,340
that

1909
00:33:55,340 --> 00:33:56,240
overseas

1910
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:56,640
property

1911
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:57,180
developers

1912
00:33:57,180 --> 00:33:57,640
were coming

1913
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:58,080
in and

1914
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:58,400
somehow

1915
00:33:58,400 --> 00:33:59,120
getting crowned

1916
00:33:59,120 --> 00:33:59,480
land

1917
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,140
very cheaply

1918
00:34:01,140 --> 00:34:02,180
and building

1919
00:34:02,180 --> 00:34:04,860
big high

1920
00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:05,460
rises on it

1921
00:34:05,460 --> 00:34:05,880
and so on

1922
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,360
so they

1923
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:09,400
campaigned

1924
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:10,080
with governments

1925
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:10,620
and trying to

1926
00:34:10,620 --> 00:34:11,180
expose these

1927
00:34:11,180 --> 00:34:11,560
people

1928
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,180
it's like

1929
00:34:13,180 --> 00:34:15,100
a classic

1930
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:15,840
best use case

1931
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:16,100
for the

1932
00:34:16,100 --> 00:34:16,460
internet

1933
00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:17,780
cheap

1934
00:34:17,780 --> 00:34:18,320
publication

1935
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,060
means that

1936
00:34:21,060 --> 00:34:21,440
you can have

1937
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:21,920
many more

1938
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:22,380
types of

1939
00:34:22,380 --> 00:34:22,740
publishers

1940
00:34:22,740 --> 00:34:23,440
which means

1941
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:24,000
you can have

1942
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:24,980
self-subsidising

1943
00:34:24,980 --> 00:34:25,380
publishers

1944
00:34:25,380 --> 00:34:25,960
so you can

1945
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:26,540
have people

1946
00:34:26,540 --> 00:34:28,020
that are

1947
00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:28,360
able

1948
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:29,620
to

1949
00:34:29,620 --> 00:34:31,180
publish

1950
00:34:31,180 --> 00:34:32,020
purely

1951
00:34:32,020 --> 00:34:32,540
for

1952
00:34:32,540 --> 00:34:33,540
their

1953
00:34:33,540 --> 00:34:34,620
ideological

1954
00:34:34,620 --> 00:34:35,560
reasons

1955
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:36,280
or for

1956
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:36,780
altruistic

1957
00:34:36,780 --> 00:34:37,140
reasons

1958
00:34:37,140 --> 00:34:37,460
because the

1959
00:34:37,460 --> 00:34:37,840
cost of

1960
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:38,340
altruism

1961
00:34:38,340 --> 00:34:38,800
in relation

1962
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:39,260
to publishing

1963
00:34:39,260 --> 00:34:39,540
are not

1964
00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:39,860
so high

1965
00:34:39,860 --> 00:34:40,180
you can't

1966
00:34:40,180 --> 00:34:40,500
do it

1967
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:42,820
so they

1968
00:34:42,820 --> 00:34:43,240
were handed

1969
00:34:43,240 --> 00:34:43,600
out of the

1970
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:44,180
Turks and Caicos

1971
00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:44,460
Islands

1972
00:34:44,460 --> 00:34:45,060
pretty quickly

1973
00:34:45,060 --> 00:34:45,940
and they

1974
00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:46,280
moved their

1975
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:47,140
servers to

1976
00:34:47,140 --> 00:34:47,740
India

1977
00:34:47,740 --> 00:34:49,260
the Turkish

1978
00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:49,580
property

1979
00:34:49,580 --> 00:34:50,040
developer

1980
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:50,580
that they

1981
00:34:50,580 --> 00:34:51,400
had been

1982
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,140
busy exposing

1983
00:34:52,140 --> 00:34:53,420
their high

1984
00:34:53,420 --> 00:34:53,940
correspondent

1985
00:34:53,940 --> 00:34:55,520
lawyers in

1986
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:55,860
London

1987
00:34:55,860 --> 00:34:56,240
who

1988
00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:56,900
high

1989
00:34:56,900 --> 00:34:57,320
correspondent

1990
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:57,840
lawyers

1991
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:58,740
in India

1992
00:34:58,740 --> 00:34:59,220
who handed

1993
00:34:59,220 --> 00:34:59,540
them out of

1994
00:34:59,540 --> 00:34:59,980
their ISP

1995
00:34:59,980 --> 00:35:00,200
there

1996
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:00,600
they moved

1997
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:01,100
to Malaysia

1998
00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:02,000
they got

1999
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:02,580
handed out

2000
00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:03,320
same deal

2001
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:03,680
there at

2002
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:04,280
the ISP

2003
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,420
they became

2004
00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:06,040
non-profitable

2005
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:06,600
to the ISP

2006
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:06,980
as soon as

2007
00:35:06,980 --> 00:35:07,520
the legal letters

2008
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,140
started coming

2009
00:35:08,140 --> 00:35:08,440
in

2010
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:09,260
they went

2011
00:35:09,260 --> 00:35:09,820
to the US

2012
00:35:09,820 --> 00:35:11,580
and once

2013
00:35:11,580 --> 00:35:12,500
they're in the US

2014
00:35:12,500 --> 00:35:13,580
the US ISP

2015
00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:14,100
didn't bother

2016
00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:15,040
they picked one

2017
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:15,300
that was a bit

2018
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:15,500
better

2019
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:16,580
it didn't

2020
00:35:16,580 --> 00:35:17,060
collapse

2021
00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:18,340
as fast

2022
00:35:18,340 --> 00:35:20,180
however they

2023
00:35:20,180 --> 00:35:20,700
noticed that

2024
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:21,160
they were using

2025
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:21,480
a Gmail

2026
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:22,000
address

2027
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,920
and

2028
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:25,860
the editors

2029
00:35:25,860 --> 00:35:26,280
were

2030
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:27,240
anonymous

2031
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:28,020
because of

2032
00:35:28,020 --> 00:35:28,780
the threats

2033
00:35:28,780 --> 00:35:29,640
who was the

2034
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:30,100
responsible

2035
00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:30,660
party

2036
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:31,780
was anonymous

2037
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:32,300
although their

2038
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:32,940
columns often

2039
00:35:32,940 --> 00:35:33,300
weren't

2040
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:34,440
and so

2041
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:35,380
they filed

2042
00:35:35,380 --> 00:35:35,880
suit in

2043
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:36,380
California

2044
00:35:36,380 --> 00:35:39,120
and as part

2045
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:39,540
of filing

2046
00:35:39,540 --> 00:35:39,920
suit

2047
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:40,460
they then

2048
00:35:40,460 --> 00:35:40,980
started issuing

2049
00:35:40,980 --> 00:35:41,460
subpoenas

2050
00:35:41,460 --> 00:35:41,740
and they

2051
00:35:41,740 --> 00:35:42,060
issued a

2052
00:35:42,060 --> 00:35:42,420
subpoena

2053
00:35:42,420 --> 00:35:42,880
on Gmail

2054
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,280
and the

2055
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:45,740
result

2056
00:35:45,740 --> 00:35:47,340
was that

2057
00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:47,800
Gmail

2058
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:48,860
Google

2059
00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:49,800
told them

2060
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,300
that they

2061
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:53,040
had to come

2062
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:53,560
to California

2063
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:54,180
to defend

2064
00:35:54,180 --> 00:35:54,960
otherwise

2065
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,400
everything would

2066
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:56,700
be handed

2067
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:57,040
over

2068
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,780
these are

2069
00:35:58,780 --> 00:35:59,520
these are

2070
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:00,040
little guys

2071
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:00,440
in the Turks

2072
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:00,800
and Caicos

2073
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:01,220
Islands

2074
00:36:01,220 --> 00:36:01,860
trying to stop

2075
00:36:01,860 --> 00:36:02,200
corruption

2076
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:02,820
in their country

2077
00:36:02,820 --> 00:36:04,020
against

2078
00:36:04,020 --> 00:36:05,580
the property

2079
00:36:05,580 --> 00:36:05,840
of over

2080
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:06,220
hundreds of

2081
00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:06,400
millions

2082
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:06,780
how can

2083
00:36:06,780 --> 00:36:07,020
they go

2084
00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:07,920
to California

2085
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:08,980
to fight

2086
00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:09,520
off a libel

2087
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:09,860
suit

2088
00:36:09,860 --> 00:36:10,840
with a

2089
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:11,640
subpoena

2090
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:12,060
which is

2091
00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:12,380
part of

2092
00:36:12,380 --> 00:36:12,760
a bogus

2093
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:13,280
libel suit

2094
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,260
so

2095
00:36:14,260 --> 00:36:16,260
well of course

2096
00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:16,760
they can't

2097
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:17,440
but we managed

2098
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:17,860
to arrange

2099
00:36:17,860 --> 00:36:18,440
some lawyers

2100
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,800
for them

2101
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,080
and there

2102
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:20,660
just happened

2103
00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:21,000
to be a

2104
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:21,420
nice little

2105
00:36:21,420 --> 00:36:21,920
bit of the

2106
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:22,360
California

2107
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:22,920
statute

2108
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,400
code

2109
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:24,700
that

2110
00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:25,320
addressed

2111
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:26,200
this precise

2112
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:26,840
situation

2113
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:27,860
which is

2114
00:36:27,860 --> 00:36:28,620
when someone

2115
00:36:28,620 --> 00:36:29,100
publishes

2116
00:36:29,100 --> 00:36:29,540
something

2117
00:36:29,540 --> 00:36:31,260
and you

2118
00:36:31,260 --> 00:36:31,920
then issue

2119
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:32,380
a subpoena

2120
00:36:32,380 --> 00:36:32,720
to try

2121
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:32,920
and get

2122
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:33,420
their identity

2123
00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:34,080
you can't

2124
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:34,320
do it

2125
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:34,600
and you've

2126
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:34,740
got to

2127
00:36:34,740 --> 00:36:35,200
pay costs

2128
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,340
so that

2129
00:36:36,340 --> 00:36:37,580
was a nice

2130
00:36:37,580 --> 00:36:38,040
little legal

2131
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:38,540
hook that

2132
00:36:38,540 --> 00:36:39,000
someone had

2133
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:39,500
introduced

2134
00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:42,180
Google didn't

2135
00:36:42,180 --> 00:36:42,880
send any lawyers

2136
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:43,400
to help them

2137
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:43,620
either

2138
00:36:43,620 --> 00:36:47,460
I don't know

2139
00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:48,360
so that's an

2140
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,040
example of what

2141
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:49,460
happens

2142
00:36:49,460 --> 00:36:51,880
if you're

2143
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:52,440
pretty bright

2144
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:52,740
guys

2145
00:36:52,740 --> 00:36:53,000
actually

2146
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:53,460
they had a

2147
00:36:53,460 --> 00:36:54,080
good Indian

2148
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:54,840
technical guy

2149
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:55,780
they had bright

2150
00:36:55,780 --> 00:36:56,680
political guys

2151
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:57,700
you've got a

2152
00:36:57,700 --> 00:36:58,380
decent technical

2153
00:36:58,380 --> 00:36:58,680
guy

2154
00:36:58,680 --> 00:36:59,080
you've got

2155
00:36:59,080 --> 00:36:59,920
decent political

2156
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:00,480
guys

2157
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:01,140
you come

2158
00:37:01,140 --> 00:37:01,700
together to

2159
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:02,640
try and fix

2160
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:03,300
corruption in

2161
00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:03,800
your country

2162
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:04,660
using the

2163
00:37:04,660 --> 00:37:05,120
internet as

2164
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:05,580
your publishing

2165
00:37:05,580 --> 00:37:06,080
mechanism

2166
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:07,200
what happens

2167
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,540
you are

2168
00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:09,420
hounded from

2169
00:37:09,420 --> 00:37:10,020
one end of

2170
00:37:10,020 --> 00:37:10,420
the earth

2171
00:37:10,420 --> 00:37:10,940
to the other

2172
00:37:10,940 --> 00:37:12,380
and then

2173
00:37:12,380 --> 00:37:13,940
these guys

2174
00:37:13,940 --> 00:37:14,300
were lucky

2175
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:14,660
enough that

2176
00:37:14,660 --> 00:37:15,100
they had

2177
00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:15,760
enough resources

2178
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:16,100
that they

2179
00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:16,600
could survive

2180
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:17,120
this hounding

2181
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,460
and they

2182
00:37:18,460 --> 00:37:19,040
ended up

2183
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,200
finding some

2184
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:20,880
friends and

2185
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:21,500
settling into

2186
00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:21,960
a position

2187
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,360
where they

2188
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:23,900
arrived

2189
00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:26,880
so for us

2190
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:27,580
this was a

2191
00:37:27,580 --> 00:37:28,640
matter of

2192
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:29,720
looking at

2193
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:30,680
what ISPs

2194
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,040
had survived

2195
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:32,400
pressure

2196
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,220
but also

2197
00:37:33,220 --> 00:37:34,500
because I

2198
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:35,580
was connected

2199
00:37:35,580 --> 00:37:36,300
to this

2200
00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:38,800
world of

2201
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,340
politics and

2202
00:37:40,340 --> 00:37:41,380
technology and

2203
00:37:41,380 --> 00:37:42,000
anti-censorship

2204
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:42,460
for a long

2205
00:37:42,460 --> 00:37:43,220
time I sort

2206
00:37:43,220 --> 00:37:43,700
of knew some

2207
00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:44,260
of the players

2208
00:37:44,260 --> 00:37:47,240
so we had

2209
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:48,460
friends at

2210
00:37:48,460 --> 00:37:49,300
ISPs

2211
00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:50,200
within the

2212
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:50,980
ISPs

2213
00:37:50,980 --> 00:37:51,900
that if you

2214
00:37:51,900 --> 00:37:52,860
like we

2215
00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:53,560
had already

2216
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:54,260
ideologically

2217
00:37:54,260 --> 00:37:54,980
infiltrated

2218
00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:56,840
so we knew

2219
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,120
that they

2220
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:57,500
would find

2221
00:37:57,500 --> 00:37:57,780
in our

2222
00:37:57,780 --> 00:37:58,340
corner if

2223
00:37:58,340 --> 00:37:58,680
there was

2224
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,580
a request

2225
00:38:01,580 --> 00:38:02,180
come in

2226
00:38:02,180 --> 00:38:03,100
we knew

2227
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:03,440
there was a

2228
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:04,160
decent chance

2229
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:04,660
that if

2230
00:38:04,660 --> 00:38:05,440
subpoenas

2231
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:06,120
was served

2232
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,620
even ones

2233
00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:07,900
that had

2234
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:08,400
gag orders

2235
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:08,740
on them

2236
00:38:08,740 --> 00:38:09,140
we'd still

2237
00:38:09,140 --> 00:38:09,640
find out

2238
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:10,120
about it

2239
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,280
so

2240
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,920
how can

2241
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:15,420
someone do

2242
00:38:15,420 --> 00:38:15,840
it who's

2243
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:17,120
not in

2244
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:17,740
that world

2245
00:38:17,740 --> 00:38:18,280
well the

2246
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:18,760
answer is

2247
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:19,920
not easily

2248
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,020
you can

2249
00:38:23,020 --> 00:38:23,300
look at

2250
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:23,920
ISPs

2251
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:24,120
that

2252
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:24,580
WikiLeaks

2253
00:38:24,580 --> 00:38:25,100
has used

2254
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:25,560
or is

2255
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:25,860
currently

2256
00:38:25,860 --> 00:38:26,160
using

2257
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:26,500
is probably

2258
00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:26,860
a better

2259
00:38:26,860 --> 00:38:28,340
version of

2260
00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:28,580
this

2261
00:38:28,580 --> 00:38:29,340
or the

2262
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:29,880
Pirate Bay

2263
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:30,220
has used

2264
00:38:30,220 --> 00:38:30,840
or other

2265
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:31,900
groups that

2266
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:32,380
are tremendously

2267
00:38:32,380 --> 00:38:33,140
under attack

2268
00:38:33,140 --> 00:38:34,220
in the case

2269
00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:35,920
of the

2270
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,720
little ISP

2271
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:37,860
and it is

2272
00:38:37,860 --> 00:38:38,260
often a

2273
00:38:38,260 --> 00:38:38,840
little ISP

2274
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:39,440
that is like

2275
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:39,740
this

2276
00:38:39,740 --> 00:38:40,840
case of

2277
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,620
little ISP

2278
00:38:41,620 --> 00:38:42,600
PRQ in

2279
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:42,960
Sweden

2280
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,220
that was

2281
00:38:44,220 --> 00:38:45,000
founded by

2282
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,560
Gottfried

2283
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,300
whose

2284
00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:49,840
pseudonym

2285
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,420
is Anakata

2286
00:38:50,420 --> 00:38:50,880
he's one

2287
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:51,220
of the

2288
00:38:51,220 --> 00:38:51,720
technical

2289
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:52,100
brains

2290
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:52,520
behind the

2291
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,020
Pirate Bay

2292
00:38:53,020 --> 00:38:56,180
so they

2293
00:38:56,180 --> 00:38:56,740
had developed

2294
00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:57,580
a niche

2295
00:38:57,580 --> 00:38:58,040
industry

2296
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:58,660
also along

2297
00:38:58,660 --> 00:38:58,800
with

2298
00:38:58,800 --> 00:38:59,200
Barnhop

2299
00:38:59,200 --> 00:38:59,540
and bigger

2300
00:38:59,540 --> 00:39:00,000
ISP

2301
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:00,500
in Sweden

2302
00:39:00,500 --> 00:39:01,400
of

2303
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,920
dealing with

2304
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:05,740
refugee publishers

2305
00:39:05,740 --> 00:39:06,260
and that is

2306
00:39:06,260 --> 00:39:06,600
the correct

2307
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:07,300
word for it

2308
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:07,740
the correct

2309
00:39:07,740 --> 00:39:08,520
phrase for it

2310
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:09,020
that there

2311
00:39:09,020 --> 00:39:09,540
are publishing

2312
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:10,040
refugees

2313
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,020
so they

2314
00:39:12,020 --> 00:39:12,900
had at

2315
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:13,560
that time

2316
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:14,680
other than

2317
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:15,100
us

2318
00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:17,720
Malaysia

2319
00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:18,160
today

2320
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:18,460
which

2321
00:39:18,460 --> 00:39:19,060
had to flee

2322
00:39:19,060 --> 00:39:19,840
sorry not

2323
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:20,080
Malaysia

2324
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:20,420
today

2325
00:39:20,420 --> 00:39:22,500
the American

2326
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:23,040
Home Owners

2327
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:23,660
Association

2328
00:39:23,660 --> 00:39:25,080
which had to

2329
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:25,360
flee

2330
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,600
from property

2331
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:27,040
developers

2332
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:27,440
in the United

2333
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:27,840
States

2334
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,840
the Kovac

2335
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:31,300
Centre

2336
00:39:31,300 --> 00:39:32,300
so a

2337
00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:32,920
Caucasian

2338
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:33,600
Caucasus

2339
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:34,080
News Centre

2340
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:34,440
which is

2341
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:34,760
constantly

2342
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:35,200
under attack

2343
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:35,460
by the

2344
00:39:35,460 --> 00:39:35,780
Russians

2345
00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:38,120
in fact

2346
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,080
the PRQ

2347
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:39,660
was raided

2348
00:39:39,660 --> 00:39:40,580
several times

2349
00:39:40,580 --> 00:39:41,020
by the

2350
00:39:41,020 --> 00:39:41,340
Swedish

2351
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:41,760
government

2352
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,120
after

2353
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:42,760
leverage

2354
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:43,280
from the

2355
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:43,500
Russian

2356
00:39:43,500 --> 00:39:43,860
government

2357
00:39:43,860 --> 00:39:46,660
the

2358
00:39:46,660 --> 00:39:47,300
Rick Ross

2359
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:48,020
Institute

2360
00:39:48,020 --> 00:39:48,480
on

2361
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:49,200
Destructive

2362
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:49,680
Cults

2363
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,740
American

2364
00:39:51,740 --> 00:39:52,360
based

2365
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:52,780
outfit

2366
00:39:52,780 --> 00:39:53,720
have been

2367
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:54,100
sued

2368
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:54,440
out of

2369
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:54,820
America

2370
00:39:54,820 --> 00:39:55,900
by

2371
00:39:55,900 --> 00:39:56,620
Scientology

2372
00:39:56,620 --> 00:39:57,160
and so on

2373
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:01,080
so

2374
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:01,900
Malaysia

2375
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:02,580
today

2376
00:40:02,580 --> 00:40:04,600
run by

2377
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:05,300
a wonderful

2378
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:05,680
guy

2379
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:06,140
by the

2380
00:40:06,140 --> 00:40:06,380
name of

2381
00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:06,980
Roger Petra

2382
00:40:06,980 --> 00:40:07,940
who

2383
00:40:07,940 --> 00:40:09,020
has two

2384
00:40:09,020 --> 00:40:09,280
arrest

2385
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:09,600
warrants

2386
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,000
out for

2387
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:10,280
him in

2388
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:10,540
Malaysia

2389
00:40:10,540 --> 00:40:11,020
he is

2390
00:40:11,020 --> 00:40:11,520
he is

2391
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:11,940
placed to

2392
00:40:11,940 --> 00:40:12,220
London

2393
00:40:12,220 --> 00:40:12,920
but his

2394
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:13,340
servers

2395
00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:13,920
can't

2396
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:14,260
survive

2397
00:40:14,260 --> 00:40:14,720
in London

2398
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:15,800
they are

2399
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:16,380
in Singapore

2400
00:40:16,380 --> 00:40:16,660
in the

2401
00:40:16,660 --> 00:40:16,840
United

2402
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:17,300
States

2403
00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:19,920
but again

2404
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:20,280
the

2405
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,240
that's a

2406
00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:22,440
means

2407
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:23,420
well there's

2408
00:40:23,420 --> 00:40:23,920
sites that

2409
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:24,580
participate in

2410
00:40:24,580 --> 00:40:24,880
this

2411
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:25,860
yes

2412
00:40:25,860 --> 00:40:27,020
we have

2413
00:40:27,020 --> 00:40:27,200
some

2414
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:27,700
1400

2415
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:28,720
but those

2416
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:29,080
are

2417
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,380
we have

2418
00:40:30,380 --> 00:40:30,820
mirrors

2419
00:40:30,820 --> 00:40:31,100
that

2420
00:40:31,100 --> 00:40:31,940
are

2421
00:40:31,940 --> 00:40:32,320
voluntary

2422
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:32,820
as well

2423
00:40:32,820 --> 00:40:33,280
so

2424
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:33,440
they

2425
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:33,560
are

2426
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:33,780
basically

2427
00:40:33,780 --> 00:40:34,040
just

2428
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:34,520
opt-in

2429
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:34,840
error

2430
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:35,080
sites

2431
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,480
right

2432
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:36,360
they

2433
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,100
determine

2434
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:37,480
their own

2435
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:37,760
risks

2436
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:38,100
we don't

2437
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:38,240
know

2438
00:40:38,240 --> 00:40:38,500
about

2439
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:38,680
them

2440
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:38,820
we

2441
00:40:38,820 --> 00:40:39,100
can't

2442
00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:39,600
guarantee

2443
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:40,400
they're

2444
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:40,640
at all

2445
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:41,100
trustworthy

2446
00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:42,240
etc

2447
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:42,740
but they

2448
00:40:42,740 --> 00:40:42,880
do

2449
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:43,220
increase

2450
00:40:43,220 --> 00:40:43,360
the

2451
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:43,640
numbers

2452
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:43,940
and

2453
00:40:43,940 --> 00:40:44,760
when

2454
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:44,980
you

2455
00:40:44,980 --> 00:40:46,020
you've been

2456
00:40:46,020 --> 00:40:46,940
quoted

2457
00:40:46,940 --> 00:40:48,160
in the press

2458
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:48,660
as saying

2459
00:40:48,660 --> 00:40:49,000
that

2460
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:49,560
there's a

2461
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:49,740
much

2462
00:40:49,740 --> 00:40:50,160
larger

2463
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:50,860
store

2464
00:40:50,860 --> 00:40:51,040
of

2465
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:51,520
information

2466
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:51,880
that's

2467
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:52,260
encrypted

2468
00:40:52,260 --> 00:40:52,700
and

2469
00:40:52,700 --> 00:40:53,200
distributed

2470
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,420
is it

2471
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:55,040
distributed

2472
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:55,600
in those

2473
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:55,860
sorts

2474
00:40:55,860 --> 00:40:56,020
of

2475
00:40:56,020 --> 00:40:56,300
places

2476
00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:57,220
no

2477
00:40:57,220 --> 00:40:57,720
that's

2478
00:40:57,720 --> 00:40:58,320
that's

2479
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:58,400
an

2480
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:58,680
open

2481
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:00,000
we

2482
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:00,420
openly

2483
00:41:00,420 --> 00:41:01,120
distribute

2484
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:01,820
backups

2485
00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:02,780
encrypted

2486
00:41:02,780 --> 00:41:03,240
backups

2487
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:03,480
of

2488
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,100
materials

2489
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:04,900
that we

2490
00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:05,200
view

2491
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:05,620
that are

2492
00:41:05,620 --> 00:41:06,140
highly

2493
00:41:06,140 --> 00:41:06,580
sensitive

2494
00:41:06,580 --> 00:41:07,620
that we

2495
00:41:07,620 --> 00:41:07,880
are

2496
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:08,880
to

2497
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:09,280
publish

2498
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:09,540
in the

2499
00:41:09,540 --> 00:41:09,740
coming

2500
00:41:09,740 --> 00:41:10,040
year

2501
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,400
not

2502
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:12,820
as

2503
00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:13,880
some

2504
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:14,160
people

2505
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:14,380
have

2506
00:41:14,380 --> 00:41:14,860
said

2507
00:41:14,860 --> 00:41:15,280
so we

2508
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:15,420
have

2509
00:41:15,420 --> 00:41:15,540
a

2510
00:41:15,540 --> 00:41:16,020
thermonuclear

2511
00:41:16,020 --> 00:41:16,480
device

2512
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:16,780
to use

2513
00:41:16,780 --> 00:41:17,000
on our

2514
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:17,340
opponents

2515
00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:18,160
but

2516
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,600
rather

2517
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:20,280
so that

2518
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:20,920
there is

2519
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:22,540
very little

2520
00:41:22,540 --> 00:41:23,180
possibility

2521
00:41:23,180 --> 00:41:23,560
that that

2522
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:24,060
material

2523
00:41:24,060 --> 00:41:24,720
even if

2524
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:25,000
we are

2525
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:25,380
completely

2526
00:41:25,380 --> 00:41:25,740
wiped

2527
00:41:25,740 --> 00:41:26,020
out

2528
00:41:26,020 --> 00:41:26,340
depth

2529
00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:26,760
will be

2530
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:27,020
taken

2531
00:41:27,020 --> 00:41:27,240
from

2532
00:41:27,240 --> 00:41:27,600
historical

2533
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:27,940
front

2534
00:41:27,940 --> 00:41:28,420
so

2535
00:41:28,420 --> 00:41:30,220
and

2536
00:41:30,220 --> 00:41:30,600
eventually

2537
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:30,900
you'll

2538
00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:31,540
reveal

2539
00:41:31,540 --> 00:41:31,920
the

2540
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:32,680
keys

2541
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:33,240
necessary

2542
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:33,460
to

2543
00:41:33,460 --> 00:41:33,600
be

2544
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:33,760
prepared

2545
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,000
no

2546
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:34,420
ideally

2547
00:41:34,420 --> 00:41:34,760
we will

2548
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:34,940
never

2549
00:41:34,940 --> 00:41:35,260
reveal

2550
00:41:35,260 --> 00:41:35,440
the

2551
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:35,620
key

2552
00:41:35,620 --> 00:41:36,240
because

2553
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:36,520
there's

2554
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:36,720
things

2555
00:41:36,720 --> 00:41:37,060
like

2556
00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:37,920
so redactions

2557
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,520
sometimes need to be done on this material

2558
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:40,280
so

2559
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:41,320
it's

2560
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:43,480
our view is that the material is so significant

2561
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,560
that even if we release it as is

2562
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:46,740
with no redactions

2563
00:41:46,740 --> 00:41:48,860
that the benefits would outweigh the harm

2564
00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:50,020
but

2565
00:41:50,020 --> 00:41:51,420
through

2566
00:41:51,420 --> 00:41:54,320
redacting things we can get the harm down even

2567
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,080
even more

2568
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,580
and I understand that

2569
00:41:56,580 --> 00:41:59,940
one more sort of technical question about the front end

2570
00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:03,680
so my simple explanation is that

2571
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:07,020
the tools will get better

2572
00:42:07,020 --> 00:42:09,740
for an anonymous sender

2573
00:42:09,740 --> 00:42:12,740
to send to a distrustful recipient

2574
00:42:12,740 --> 00:42:15,260
and then this anonymous

2575
00:42:15,260 --> 00:42:16,700
you're describing

2576
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:18,580
and that

2577
00:42:18,580 --> 00:42:19,680
it'll get to the point

2578
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:20,220
where

2579
00:42:20,220 --> 00:42:21,400
there'll be

2580
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,320
a very large amount

2581
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:24,700
of people

2582
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:26,180
using such services

2583
00:42:26,180 --> 00:42:27,800
for all sorts of reasons

2584
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:28,340
you know

2585
00:42:28,340 --> 00:42:28,880
truthful

2586
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:29,740
lying

2587
00:42:29,740 --> 00:42:30,480
manipulation

2588
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:31,740
and what have you

2589
00:42:31,740 --> 00:42:34,480
the current technology

2590
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:35,140
you used

2591
00:42:35,140 --> 00:42:39,700
basically

2592
00:42:39,700 --> 00:42:40,400
have FTP

2593
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,520
sent to you

2594
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:41,700
right

2595
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:42,520
basically people will

2596
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:42,820
FTP

2597
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:43,860
and just sort of

2598
00:42:43,860 --> 00:42:44,480
ship it to you

2599
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,680
no we have

2600
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,800
we have lots of different paths

2601
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,440
and that's quite deliberate

2602
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:51,600
and we don't say

2603
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:52,760
which one is used more than

2604
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:53,520
which other one

2605
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:54,460
because it means

2606
00:42:54,460 --> 00:42:55,420
investigative resources

2607
00:42:55,420 --> 00:42:56,360
have to be spread across

2608
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,480
all possible paths

2609
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:58,960
but they are

2610
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,480
from in person

2611
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:01,320
in the mail

2612
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:02,680
post the mail

2613
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:03,980
is still actually pretty good

2614
00:43:03,980 --> 00:43:04,800
if you want to send

2615
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:05,640
anonymous stuff

2616
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,940
encrypt something

2617
00:43:08,940 --> 00:43:10,000
to a key

2618
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,760
if you think it might be

2619
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:13,720
intercepted on the way

2620
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:15,420
send it from somewhere

2621
00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:16,640
it's still pretty good

2622
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:23,540
straight HTTPS

2623
00:43:23,540 --> 00:43:25,140
uploads

2624
00:43:25,140 --> 00:43:26,340
although they're not

2625
00:43:26,340 --> 00:43:27,260
actually sort of

2626
00:43:27,260 --> 00:43:27,560
straight

2627
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:28,520
but to the user

2628
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:29,160
that looks like

2629
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:29,620
they're straight

2630
00:43:29,620 --> 00:43:31,180
behind the scenes

2631
00:43:31,180 --> 00:43:31,780
all sorts of other

2632
00:43:31,780 --> 00:43:32,680
stuff is going on

2633
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:34,680
the biggest problem

2634
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:35,580
with computer security

2635
00:43:35,580 --> 00:43:37,260
is not communication

2636
00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:38,620
it's endpoints

2637
00:43:38,620 --> 00:43:40,540
and so dealing

2638
00:43:40,540 --> 00:43:41,860
with endpoint attacks

2639
00:43:41,860 --> 00:43:44,080
both on

2640
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,180
someone trying to

2641
00:43:45,180 --> 00:43:45,920
send us information

2642
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:47,580
and more importantly

2643
00:43:47,580 --> 00:43:48,160
because

2644
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:49,420
if someone

2645
00:43:49,420 --> 00:43:50,700
trying to send us

2646
00:43:50,700 --> 00:43:51,100
information

2647
00:43:51,100 --> 00:43:51,680
is compromised

2648
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,500
that's one compromise

2649
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:54,220
of one person

2650
00:43:54,220 --> 00:43:55,540
if our

2651
00:43:55,540 --> 00:43:56,600
engine

2652
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:57,360
that receives

2653
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:57,840
information

2654
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:58,380
is compromised

2655
00:43:58,380 --> 00:43:59,220
that's a potential

2656
00:43:59,220 --> 00:43:59,720
compromise

2657
00:43:59,720 --> 00:44:00,660
of every person

2658
00:44:00,660 --> 00:44:01,120
that's trying

2659
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:01,920
to send us

2660
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:02,320
material

2661
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:03,600
I guess

2662
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:04,640
I didn't ask

2663
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:05,120
my question

2664
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:05,560
quite right

2665
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,620
if the

2666
00:44:06,620 --> 00:44:10,800
is there some

2667
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:11,780
new technology

2668
00:44:11,780 --> 00:44:13,240
which in your view

2669
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:14,320
is going to

2670
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:15,560
materially change

2671
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:16,940
this sort of

2672
00:44:16,940 --> 00:44:17,520
simple model

2673
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:18,200
that I have

2674
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:18,840
about

2675
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,080
there will be

2676
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:21,480
a vast increase

2677
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:21,940
of

2678
00:44:21,940 --> 00:44:22,460
yes

2679
00:44:22,460 --> 00:44:24,080
what are those

2680
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:24,600
technologies

2681
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,540
the most important

2682
00:44:27,540 --> 00:44:27,860
one

2683
00:44:27,860 --> 00:44:28,800
naming things

2684
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:29,160
properly

2685
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,220
so

2686
00:44:31,220 --> 00:44:36,560
if we are able

2687
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:37,300
to name

2688
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:38,540
some

2689
00:44:38,540 --> 00:44:40,980
a video file

2690
00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:41,840
or a piece

2691
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:42,420
of text

2692
00:44:42,420 --> 00:44:42,480
text

2693
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:43,440
in a way

2694
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:43,800
that

2695
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,860
is intrinsically

2696
00:44:46,860 --> 00:44:47,240
coupled

2697
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:47,680
to the

2698
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:48,260
information

2699
00:44:48,260 --> 00:44:48,660
there

2700
00:44:48,660 --> 00:44:49,580
there's

2701
00:44:49,580 --> 00:44:50,740
no ambiguity

2702
00:44:50,740 --> 00:44:51,680
so a hash

2703
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:52,380
is an example

2704
00:44:52,380 --> 00:44:52,860
of this

2705
00:44:52,860 --> 00:44:55,200
but then

2706
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:55,600
there's some

2707
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:56,160
variants

2708
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:56,840
maybe you want

2709
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:56,960
to

2710
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:57,800
one that

2711
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:58,700
human beings

2712
00:44:58,700 --> 00:44:59,120
can actually

2713
00:44:59,120 --> 00:44:59,520
remember

2714
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,020
then

2715
00:45:02,020 --> 00:45:03,660
it permits

2716
00:45:03,660 --> 00:45:04,320
this information

2717
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:05,320
to be spread

2718
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,340
in such a way

2719
00:45:07,340 --> 00:45:07,820
where you don't

2720
00:45:07,820 --> 00:45:08,900
have to trust

2721
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:09,580
the underlying

2722
00:45:09,580 --> 00:45:10,220
networks

2723
00:45:10,220 --> 00:45:11,960
and you can

2724
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:13,460
flood it

2725
00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:17,480
well because

2726
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:17,920
you can sign

2727
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:18,520
you can sign

2728
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:19,400
you can sign

2729
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:20,000
the hashes

2730
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:20,440
you can sign

2731
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:20,860
the name

2732
00:45:20,860 --> 00:45:21,240
as well as

2733
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:21,740
the content

2734
00:45:21,740 --> 00:45:22,380
you can sign

2735
00:45:22,380 --> 00:45:22,940
the hash

2736
00:45:22,940 --> 00:45:24,280
and that's

2737
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:24,700
the hash

2738
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:26,540
if the name

2739
00:45:26,540 --> 00:45:27,420
is like a hash

2740
00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:29,760
it's unambiguous

2741
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:30,200
as to what

2742
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:30,620
it's unambiguous

2743
00:45:30,620 --> 00:45:31,060
yeah

2744
00:45:31,060 --> 00:45:32,160
so you're basically

2745
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:32,580
saying you have

2746
00:45:32,580 --> 00:45:33,320
a provable name

2747
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,700
as opposed

2748
00:45:34,700 --> 00:45:35,360
to an alterable

2749
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:35,620
name

2750
00:45:35,620 --> 00:45:35,920
yeah

2751
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:37,040
and

2752
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,480
those sorts

2753
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:39,960
of mechanisms

2754
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:40,700
are evolving

2755
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:41,080
now

2756
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:41,680
so

2757
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,180
we've been using

2758
00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:43,760
something like

2759
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:44,400
this internally

2760
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:45,700
and I've been

2761
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:47,340
writing a paper

2762
00:45:47,340 --> 00:45:48,460
to try and make

2763
00:45:48,460 --> 00:45:49,240
this a stand

2764
00:45:49,240 --> 00:45:49,800
for everyone

2765
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:50,780
but you can see

2766
00:45:50,780 --> 00:45:51,420
that they are

2767
00:45:51,420 --> 00:45:52,160
actually evolving

2768
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:52,560
so

2769
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,780
if we look at

2770
00:45:54,780 --> 00:45:56,960
magnet links

2771
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,440
have you seen

2772
00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:58,800
these

2773
00:45:58,800 --> 00:45:59,940
so

2774
00:45:59,940 --> 00:46:02,080
in BitTorrent

2775
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,680
there's a

2776
00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:06,100
sort of enhancement

2777
00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:06,840
of BitTorrent

2778
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:07,860
which is

2779
00:46:07,860 --> 00:46:09,200
a magnet link

2780
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:10,140
and a magnet link

2781
00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:11,020
is actually

2782
00:46:11,020 --> 00:46:11,540
a hash

2783
00:46:11,540 --> 00:46:13,440
so it is

2784
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:14,080
hash addressing

2785
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,580
it doesn't

2786
00:46:15,580 --> 00:46:16,100
point to any

2787
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:16,640
particular server

2788
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:17,320
rather there's

2789
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,160
a big hash

2790
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:19,440
tree

2791
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:19,700
and

2792
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:21,380
a distributed

2793
00:46:21,380 --> 00:46:22,360
hash tree

2794
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,380
over

2795
00:46:23,380 --> 00:46:24,380
I don't know

2796
00:46:24,380 --> 00:46:24,780
how technical

2797
00:46:24,780 --> 00:46:25,260
I can get

2798
00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:26,980
there's a big

2799
00:46:26,980 --> 00:46:27,700
distributed hash

2800
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:28,360
tree over

2801
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,060
many

2802
00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:32,020
millions of

2803
00:46:32,020 --> 00:46:32,480
computers

2804
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:33,600
involved

2805
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:34,320
in the

2806
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:34,780
hash tree

2807
00:46:34,780 --> 00:46:36,340
and many

2808
00:46:36,340 --> 00:46:37,180
entry points

2809
00:46:37,180 --> 00:46:37,580
into this

2810
00:46:37,580 --> 00:46:38,200
hash tree

2811
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:38,740
so it is

2812
00:46:38,740 --> 00:46:39,880
very hard

2813
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:40,400
to censor

2814
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:41,640
and

2815
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:43,240
the addressing

2816
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:44,540
for content

2817
00:46:44,540 --> 00:46:45,380
is

2818
00:46:45,380 --> 00:46:46,600
on the

2819
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:47,060
hash of the

2820
00:46:47,060 --> 00:46:47,380
content

2821
00:46:47,380 --> 00:46:49,400
so you're

2822
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:49,900
basically using

2823
00:46:49,900 --> 00:46:50,300
the hash

2824
00:46:50,300 --> 00:46:50,580
as the

2825
00:46:50,580 --> 00:46:51,000
address

2826
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:51,900
and you

2827
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:52,340
do the

2828
00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:52,720
addressing

2829
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:53,220
within the

2830
00:46:53,220 --> 00:46:53,740
namespace

2831
00:46:53,740 --> 00:46:54,240
to provide

2832
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:54,700
it

2833
00:46:54,700 --> 00:46:55,640
so as long

2834
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:55,960
as you

2835
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:56,440
have a

2836
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:56,820
signed

2837
00:46:56,820 --> 00:46:57,920
as long

2838
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:58,080
as you

2839
00:46:58,080 --> 00:46:58,400
get the

2840
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:58,800
hash

2841
00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,400
you can't

2842
00:46:59,400 --> 00:46:59,940
hide it

2843
00:46:59,940 --> 00:47:00,460
well there's

2844
00:47:00,460 --> 00:47:00,780
a question

2845
00:47:00,780 --> 00:47:01,180
as to

2846
00:47:01,180 --> 00:47:02,220
you've got

2847
00:47:02,220 --> 00:47:02,520
a name

2848
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:02,760
something

2849
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:02,960
you've got

2850
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:03,340
a hash

2851
00:47:03,340 --> 00:47:04,060
but what

2852
00:47:04,060 --> 00:47:04,960
does that

2853
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:05,460
tell you

2854
00:47:05,460 --> 00:47:06,580
nothing really

2855
00:47:06,580 --> 00:47:06,800
because it's

2856
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:07,060
not really

2857
00:47:07,060 --> 00:47:07,540
human readable

2858
00:47:07,540 --> 00:47:08,180
so you need

2859
00:47:08,180 --> 00:47:09,000
someone

2860
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,020
another mechanism

2861
00:47:10,020 --> 00:47:10,740
to get the

2862
00:47:10,740 --> 00:47:11,400
fact that that's

2863
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:12,400
important to you

2864
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:13,560
and that is

2865
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:14,680
something like

2866
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,000
Wikileaks

2867
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:17,980
signs that

2868
00:47:17,980 --> 00:47:18,540
and says

2869
00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:19,540
that that is

2870
00:47:19,540 --> 00:47:19,980
an interesting

2871
00:47:19,980 --> 00:47:21,640
piece of information

2872
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:22,300
we have verified

2873
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:22,820
that it is

2874
00:47:22,820 --> 00:47:23,080
true

2875
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,960
once you

2876
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:27,440
feed that

2877
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:27,900
information

2878
00:47:27,900 --> 00:47:28,360
into the

2879
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:28,740
system

2880
00:47:28,740 --> 00:47:33,640
then it

2881
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,040
becomes very

2882
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:34,960
unclear how

2883
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:35,480
it got into

2884
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:36,000
that system

2885
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:36,940
or how you

2886
00:47:36,940 --> 00:47:37,380
can get rid

2887
00:47:37,380 --> 00:47:37,760
of it from

2888
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:38,220
this system

2889
00:47:38,220 --> 00:47:38,780
and if you

2890
00:47:38,780 --> 00:47:39,300
do get rid

2891
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:39,560
of it

2892
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:40,920
if someone

2893
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:41,460
does manage

2894
00:47:41,460 --> 00:47:41,840
to get rid

2895
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:42,060
of it

2896
00:47:42,060 --> 00:47:42,440
you know

2897
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:43,360
for sure

2898
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:43,720
that it's

2899
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:44,020
been gotten

2900
00:47:44,020 --> 00:47:44,480
rid of

2901
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:44,940
because the

2902
00:47:44,940 --> 00:47:45,380
hash doesn't

2903
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:45,880
resolve to

2904
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,180
anything

2905
00:47:46,180 --> 00:47:46,620
anymore

2906
00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:47,440
similarly

2907
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:49,920
if someone

2908
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:50,180
were to

2909
00:47:50,180 --> 00:47:50,900
modify it

2910
00:47:50,900 --> 00:47:51,520
the hash

2911
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:51,980
changes

2912
00:47:51,980 --> 00:47:52,520
I was going

2913
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:52,780
to say

2914
00:47:52,780 --> 00:47:53,120
why would

2915
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:53,400
they just

2916
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:54,180
rename it

2917
00:47:54,180 --> 00:47:55,840
they can't

2918
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:56,260
because the

2919
00:47:56,260 --> 00:47:56,820
name is

2920
00:47:56,820 --> 00:47:58,200
intrinsically

2921
00:47:58,200 --> 00:47:58,940
coupled to

2922
00:47:58,940 --> 00:47:59,460
the intellectual

2923
00:47:59,460 --> 00:47:59,860
content

2924
00:47:59,860 --> 00:48:01,140
the way to

2925
00:48:01,140 --> 00:48:01,620
explain this

2926
00:48:01,620 --> 00:48:03,060
to summarize

2927
00:48:03,060 --> 00:48:03,580
the technical

2928
00:48:03,580 --> 00:48:04,220
idea is

2929
00:48:04,220 --> 00:48:05,080
take all the

2930
00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:05,620
content of

2931
00:48:05,620 --> 00:48:06,120
the document

2932
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:07,080
come up

2933
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:07,680
with a number

2934
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,600
so if the

2935
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:10,100
content is

2936
00:48:10,100 --> 00:48:10,560
gone

2937
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:11,880
the number

2938
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:12,180
doesn't

2939
00:48:12,180 --> 00:48:13,580
show anything

2940
00:48:13,580 --> 00:48:14,200
and if the

2941
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:14,580
content is

2942
00:48:14,580 --> 00:48:15,100
changed

2943
00:48:15,100 --> 00:48:15,680
the number

2944
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:16,900
doesn't compute

2945
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:17,580
right anymore

2946
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:19,540
so it's an

2947
00:48:19,540 --> 00:48:20,400
interesting property

2948
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,320
so how far

2949
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:23,780
are we from

2950
00:48:23,780 --> 00:48:24,440
this type

2951
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:24,900
of system

2952
00:48:24,900 --> 00:48:25,700
being deployable

2953
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:27,520
on the

2954
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,180
publishing end

2955
00:48:28,180 --> 00:48:29,160
the magnet

2956
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:29,640
links and

2957
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:29,920
so on

2958
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:30,360
are starting

2959
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:30,980
to come up

2960
00:48:30,980 --> 00:48:31,640
there's also

2961
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:32,620
a very

2962
00:48:32,620 --> 00:48:34,040
nice little

2963
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:34,940
paper that

2964
00:48:34,940 --> 00:48:35,440
I've seen

2965
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:35,920
in relation

2966
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:36,520
to bitcoin

2967
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:39,780
so you

2968
00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:40,940
know about

2969
00:48:40,940 --> 00:48:41,300
bitcoin

2970
00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:41,940
right now

2971
00:48:41,940 --> 00:48:43,800
ok so

2972
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,140
bitcoin is

2973
00:48:45,140 --> 00:48:45,560
something that

2974
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:46,260
evolved out

2975
00:48:46,260 --> 00:48:47,280
of the

2976
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:47,940
cyber punks

2977
00:48:47,940 --> 00:48:48,300
a couple

2978
00:48:48,300 --> 00:48:48,640
of years

2979
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:48,940
ago

2980
00:48:48,940 --> 00:48:49,860
and so

2981
00:48:49,860 --> 00:48:50,300
it's an

2982
00:48:50,300 --> 00:48:50,760
alternative

2983
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,020
it's a

2984
00:48:52,020 --> 00:48:52,380
stateless

2985
00:48:52,380 --> 00:48:52,960
currency

2986
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:59,560
and very

2987
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:00,120
important

2988
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:00,760
actually

2989
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,220
it has a

2990
00:49:02,220 --> 00:49:02,940
few problems

2991
00:49:02,940 --> 00:49:03,880
but its

2992
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:04,440
innovations

2993
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:05,160
succeed as

2994
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:05,400
problems

2995
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:06,060
now there's

2996
00:49:06,060 --> 00:49:06,620
been innovations

2997
00:49:06,620 --> 00:49:07,120
along these

2998
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:07,760
lines in many

2999
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:08,480
different paths

3000
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:09,320
of digital

3001
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:09,900
currencies

3002
00:49:09,900 --> 00:49:10,880
anonymous

3003
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:11,480
untraceful

3004
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:11,780
etc

3005
00:49:11,780 --> 00:49:14,800
people have

3006
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:15,420
been experimenting

3007
00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:15,880
with over the

3008
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:16,280
past 20

3009
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:16,680
years

3010
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:17,560
that bitcoin

3011
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:18,520
actually has

3012
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:19,120
the balance

3013
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:19,980
and incentives

3014
00:49:19,980 --> 00:49:21,080
right and

3015
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:21,560
that's why it

3016
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:21,960
started to

3017
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:22,480
take off

3018
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:23,280
the different

3019
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:24,120
combinations of

3020
00:49:24,120 --> 00:49:24,500
things

3021
00:49:24,500 --> 00:49:26,600
no central

3022
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:26,920
nodes

3023
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:27,300
it's all

3024
00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:27,740
point to

3025
00:49:27,740 --> 00:49:28,080
point

3026
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,680
one does

3027
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:31,220
not need to

3028
00:49:31,220 --> 00:49:31,960
trust any

3029
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:33,000
central

3030
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:34,620
mint

3031
00:49:34,620 --> 00:49:38,420
so if we

3032
00:49:38,420 --> 00:49:38,920
look at

3033
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:39,500
traditional

3034
00:49:39,500 --> 00:49:40,300
currencies such

3035
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:42,060
as gold

3036
00:49:42,060 --> 00:49:43,820
we can see

3037
00:49:43,820 --> 00:49:44,200
they have

3038
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:45,000
some interesting

3039
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:45,680
properties that

3040
00:49:45,680 --> 00:49:45,980
make them

3041
00:49:45,980 --> 00:49:46,840
valuable as

3042
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:47,160
a medium

3043
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:47,620
of exchange

3044
00:49:47,620 --> 00:49:49,420
so gold

3045
00:49:49,420 --> 00:49:50,140
is divisible

3046
00:49:50,140 --> 00:49:51,480
it's easy

3047
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:52,060
to chop up

3048
00:49:52,060 --> 00:49:52,420
in fact

3049
00:49:52,420 --> 00:49:52,980
out of all

3050
00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:53,460
metals it's

3051
00:49:53,460 --> 00:49:54,120
easiest to

3052
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:54,480
chop up

3053
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:54,960
into fine

3054
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:55,480
segments

3055
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,000
you can

3056
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:57,600
test whether

3057
00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:58,520
relatively

3058
00:49:58,520 --> 00:49:58,940
easily

3059
00:49:58,940 --> 00:49:59,760
whether it's

3060
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:00,580
true or

3061
00:50:00,580 --> 00:50:00,980
whether it's

3062
00:50:00,980 --> 00:50:01,280
fake

3063
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,460
you can

3064
00:50:04,460 --> 00:50:05,340
take chopped

3065
00:50:05,340 --> 00:50:05,860
up segments

3066
00:50:05,860 --> 00:50:06,240
and you can

3067
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:06,620
put them back

3068
00:50:06,620 --> 00:50:07,140
together by

3069
00:50:07,140 --> 00:50:07,640
melting the

3070
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:07,880
gold

3071
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,060
so that's

3072
00:50:10,060 --> 00:50:10,520
what makes

3073
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:10,900
it a good

3074
00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:11,440
medium of

3075
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:11,760
exchange

3076
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:12,440
and it's

3077
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:13,600
also a

3078
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,960
good medium

3079
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:17,360
of value

3080
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:18,560
store because

3081
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:19,260
you can take

3082
00:50:19,260 --> 00:50:19,760
it and put

3083
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:20,060
it in the

3084
00:50:20,060 --> 00:50:20,560
ground and

3085
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:21,100
it's not

3086
00:50:21,100 --> 00:50:21,480
going to

3087
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:22,380
decay like

3088
00:50:22,380 --> 00:50:23,320
apples or

3089
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:23,720
steaks

3090
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:27,680
so the

3091
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:29,120
problems with

3092
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,300
traditional

3093
00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:31,100
digital currencies

3094
00:50:31,100 --> 00:50:31,400
on the

3095
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:32,080
internet is

3096
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,180
that you

3097
00:50:34,180 --> 00:50:34,540
have to

3098
00:50:34,540 --> 00:50:35,020
trust the

3099
00:50:35,020 --> 00:50:35,440
mint not

3100
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:35,800
to print

3101
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:36,200
too much

3102
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:36,540
of it

3103
00:50:36,540 --> 00:50:38,140
and the

3104
00:50:38,140 --> 00:50:38,560
incentives

3105
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:39,660
for the

3106
00:50:39,660 --> 00:50:39,940
mint to

3107
00:50:39,940 --> 00:50:40,140
keep

3108
00:50:40,140 --> 00:50:40,680
printing are

3109
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:41,240
pretty high

3110
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:41,980
actually because

3111
00:50:41,980 --> 00:50:42,440
you can print

3112
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:42,880
free money

3113
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,160
and that

3114
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:45,480
means you

3115
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:45,760
need some

3116
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:46,040
kind of

3117
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:46,540
regulation

3118
00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:48,220
and if you

3119
00:50:48,220 --> 00:50:48,780
have some

3120
00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:49,000
kind of

3121
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:49,720
regulation then

3122
00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:50,220
who's going to

3123
00:50:50,220 --> 00:50:50,620
enforce the

3124
00:50:50,620 --> 00:50:51,240
regulation so

3125
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:51,900
now all of a

3126
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:52,240
sudden you've

3127
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:52,680
sucked in the

3128
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,580
whole problem

3129
00:50:53,580 --> 00:50:54,120
of the state

3130
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,040
into this

3131
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:55,680
issue and

3132
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:56,700
political pushes

3133
00:50:56,700 --> 00:50:57,280
here and there

3134
00:50:57,280 --> 00:50:57,720
and who can

3135
00:50:57,720 --> 00:50:58,480
get control of

3136
00:50:58,480 --> 00:50:58,960
the mint and

3137
00:50:58,960 --> 00:50:59,540
push it one way

3138
00:50:59,540 --> 00:51:00,060
or another for

3139
00:51:00,060 --> 00:51:00,440
their particular

3140
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:01,900
purposes so

3141
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:05,900
bitcoin instead

3142
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:06,640
has an

3143
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,760
algorithm where

3144
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:09,280
the difficult

3145
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:10,800
where anyone

3146
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:11,680
can create

3147
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:12,780
anyone can

3148
00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:13,180
be their own

3149
00:51:13,180 --> 00:51:14,640
mint so

3150
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:15,260
they're basically

3151
00:51:15,260 --> 00:51:16,160
just searching

3152
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:17,900
for collisions

3153
00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:18,780
with hashes

3154
00:51:18,780 --> 00:51:21,300
so a simple

3155
00:51:21,300 --> 00:51:21,760
way but they're

3156
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:22,360
searching for a

3157
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,000
sequence of

3158
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:24,060
zero bits on

3159
00:51:24,060 --> 00:51:24,440
the beginning

3160
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:24,940
of the thing

3161
00:51:24,940 --> 00:51:26,740
and you

3162
00:51:26,740 --> 00:51:27,160
have to

3163
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,220
randomly search

3164
00:51:29,220 --> 00:51:29,540
multiple

3165
00:51:29,540 --> 00:51:29,960
how to do

3166
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:30,140
this so

3167
00:51:30,140 --> 00:51:30,440
there's a lot

3168
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:30,960
of computational

3169
00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:31,500
work to do

3170
00:51:31,500 --> 00:51:33,540
this and

3171
00:51:33,540 --> 00:51:36,080
each bitcoin

3172
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:36,380
bit of

3173
00:51:36,380 --> 00:51:37,740
bitcoin software

3174
00:51:37,740 --> 00:51:38,080
that is

3175
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:38,540
distributed

3176
00:51:38,540 --> 00:51:39,660
that work

3177
00:51:39,660 --> 00:51:40,720
algorithmically

3178
00:51:40,720 --> 00:51:42,560
increases as

3179
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:43,460
time goes by

3180
00:51:43,460 --> 00:51:45,320
so the

3181
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:45,900
difficulty in

3182
00:51:45,900 --> 00:51:46,660
producing bitcoins

3183
00:51:46,660 --> 00:51:47,360
becomes harder

3184
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:47,840
and harder and

3185
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:48,060
harder and

3186
00:51:48,060 --> 00:51:48,360
that's built

3187
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:49,060
into the system

3188
00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:50,200
just like the

3189
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:50,820
difficulty in

3190
00:51:50,820 --> 00:51:51,320
mining gold

3191
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:51,920
becomes harder

3192
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:52,320
and harder and

3193
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:52,640
harder and

3194
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:53,080
that's what

3195
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:54,640
makes people

3196
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:55,280
predict that

3197
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:55,620
there's not

3198
00:51:55,620 --> 00:51:56,120
going to be a

3199
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:56,660
sudden amount

3200
00:51:56,660 --> 00:51:57,540
of gold in

3201
00:51:57,540 --> 00:51:57,800
the market

3202
00:51:57,800 --> 00:51:58,220
rather

3203
00:51:58,220 --> 00:51:58,860
to enforce

3204
00:51:58,860 --> 00:51:59,420
scarcity

3205
00:51:59,420 --> 00:52:01,820
and then

3206
00:52:01,820 --> 00:52:02,920
scarcity will

3207
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:03,480
go up as

3208
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:04,340
time goes by

3209
00:52:04,340 --> 00:52:06,120
and what does

3210
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:06,800
that mean for

3211
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:07,500
incentives in

3212
00:52:07,500 --> 00:52:08,020
going into the

3213
00:52:08,020 --> 00:52:08,680
bitcoin system

3214
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:10,780
that means that

3215
00:52:10,780 --> 00:52:12,280
you should get

3216
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:12,860
into the bitcoin

3217
00:52:12,860 --> 00:52:13,700
system now

3218
00:52:13,700 --> 00:52:14,540
early you should

3219
00:52:14,540 --> 00:52:15,000
be an early

3220
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:15,900
adopter because

3221
00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:16,540
your bitcoins

3222
00:52:16,540 --> 00:52:16,920
are going to be

3223
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:17,360
worth a lot of

3224
00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:18,000
money one day

3225
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:22,160
so once you

3226
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:24,340
have a and

3227
00:52:24,340 --> 00:52:24,840
the bitcoins

3228
00:52:24,840 --> 00:52:26,200
are just a

3229
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:27,500
bitcoin address

3230
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:28,840
is just a

3231
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:29,340
big hash

3232
00:52:29,340 --> 00:52:29,740
it's a hash

3233
00:52:29,740 --> 00:52:30,360
of a public

3234
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:31,020
key that you

3235
00:52:31,020 --> 00:52:32,400
generate so

3236
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,560
once you have

3237
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,460
this hash you

3238
00:52:37,460 --> 00:52:37,780
can just

3239
00:52:37,780 --> 00:52:38,500
advertise it to

3240
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:39,020
everyone and

3241
00:52:39,020 --> 00:52:40,160
people can send

3242
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:40,820
you send you

3243
00:52:40,820 --> 00:52:41,940
bitcoins and

3244
00:52:41,940 --> 00:52:42,420
there's people

3245
00:52:42,420 --> 00:52:42,940
that have set up

3246
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:43,760
exchanges to go

3247
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:44,500
from bitcoin to

3248
00:52:44,500 --> 00:52:45,200
US dollars and

3249
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,420
so on and

3250
00:52:47,420 --> 00:52:49,920
it's it solves

3251
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:50,740
a very interesting

3252
00:52:50,740 --> 00:52:51,600
technical problem

3253
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:53,480
which is how

3254
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:54,080
do you stop

3255
00:52:54,080 --> 00:52:54,900
double spending

3256
00:52:54,900 --> 00:52:58,020
and so if

3257
00:52:58,020 --> 00:52:59,440
all digital

3258
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:00,360
material can be

3259
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:01,500
cloned for

3260
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:01,960
almost zero

3261
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:04,260
cost so if

3262
00:53:04,260 --> 00:53:04,640
you have

3263
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,260
currency as a

3264
00:53:06,260 --> 00:53:08,120
digital string

3265
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:08,660
of numbers

3266
00:53:08,660 --> 00:53:09,460
how do you

3267
00:53:09,460 --> 00:53:10,160
stop me

3268
00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:11,780
I want to

3269
00:53:11,780 --> 00:53:13,100
buy this

3270
00:53:13,100 --> 00:53:13,440
piece of

3271
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:13,740
pasta

3272
00:53:13,740 --> 00:53:15,740
here's a

3273
00:53:15,740 --> 00:53:16,380
digital currency

3274
00:53:16,380 --> 00:53:17,600
and now I

3275
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:18,080
take a copy

3276
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:18,560
of it and

3277
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:19,000
now I want

3278
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:19,400
to buy your

3279
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:19,900
bit of egg

3280
00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:24,120
and then you

3281
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,320
go and now

3282
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:25,840
I want to buy

3283
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:26,380
your radish

3284
00:53:26,380 --> 00:53:26,920
and you go

3285
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:27,360
what I've

3286
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,080
already got

3287
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:28,360
that

3288
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,420
what's going

3289
00:53:29,420 --> 00:53:29,680
on here

3290
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:29,900
there's been

3291
00:53:29,900 --> 00:53:30,360
some fraud

3292
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:30,720
here

3293
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:33,320
so there's

3294
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:34,620
a synchronisation

3295
00:53:34,620 --> 00:53:35,120
problem

3296
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:36,260
actually who

3297
00:53:36,260 --> 00:53:37,140
has who

3298
00:53:37,140 --> 00:53:38,000
now has

3299
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:38,420
the coin

3300
00:53:38,420 --> 00:53:40,960
and so

3301
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:41,320
there's a

3302
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:41,700
point to

3303
00:53:41,700 --> 00:53:42,140
point

3304
00:53:42,140 --> 00:53:45,360
spread network

3305
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:45,680
with all

3306
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:46,180
these problems

3307
00:53:46,180 --> 00:53:46,580
of some

3308
00:53:46,580 --> 00:53:47,300
parts of

3309
00:53:47,300 --> 00:53:47,500
the network

3310
00:53:47,500 --> 00:53:48,000
being faster

3311
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:48,460
some points

3312
00:53:48,460 --> 00:53:48,920
being slower

3313
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:49,600
multiple parts

3314
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:50,280
of communication

3315
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,180
how do you

3316
00:53:52,180 --> 00:53:52,700
solve this

3317
00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:53,360
synchronisation

3318
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:53,800
issue

3319
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,160
about who

3320
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:56,700
has the

3321
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:57,020
currency

3322
00:53:57,020 --> 00:53:58,620
and so

3323
00:53:58,620 --> 00:53:59,100
this is

3324
00:53:59,100 --> 00:53:59,840
to my mind

3325
00:53:59,840 --> 00:54:00,360
actually the

3326
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:01,160
real technical

3327
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:01,680
innovation

3328
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:02,320
in Bitcoin

3329
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:03,060
that it has

3330
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:03,480
done this

3331
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:04,080
using some

3332
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:04,640
hash trees

3333
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:05,240
and a delayed

3334
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:05,700
time

3335
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:07,480
and CPU

3336
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,060
work has

3337
00:54:08,060 --> 00:54:08,600
to be done

3338
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:09,260
in order to

3339
00:54:09,260 --> 00:54:09,860
move one

3340
00:54:09,860 --> 00:54:10,160
thing to

3341
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:10,900
another

3342
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:12,040
so information

3343
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,620
can't spread

3344
00:54:13,620 --> 00:54:14,180
too fast

3345
00:54:14,180 --> 00:54:17,300
okay so

3346
00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:18,240
once you

3347
00:54:18,240 --> 00:54:18,600
have a

3348
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:19,040
system

3349
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:20,660
of currency

3350
00:54:20,660 --> 00:54:21,620
that is

3351
00:54:21,620 --> 00:54:22,140
easy to

3352
00:54:22,140 --> 00:54:22,640
use like

3353
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:22,980
that

3354
00:54:22,980 --> 00:54:24,880
then you

3355
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:26,260
can start

3356
00:54:26,260 --> 00:54:26,720
to use

3357
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:27,360
it for

3358
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:28,480
things that

3359
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:28,760
you want

3360
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:29,000
to be

3361
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:29,400
scarce

3362
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:31,540
so what

3363
00:54:31,540 --> 00:54:31,780
is an

3364
00:54:31,780 --> 00:54:32,300
example of

3365
00:54:32,300 --> 00:54:32,680
some things

3366
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:33,040
we want

3367
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:33,320
to be

3368
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:33,720
scarce

3369
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:34,380
well

3370
00:54:34,380 --> 00:54:34,900
domain

3371
00:54:34,900 --> 00:54:35,320
names

3372
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,220
names

3373
00:54:37,220 --> 00:54:37,900
we want

3374
00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:38,400
names to

3375
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:38,940
be scarce

3376
00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:39,500
we want

3377
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:40,000
short names

3378
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:40,240
to be

3379
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:40,480
scarce

3380
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:40,880
otherwise

3381
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:41,840
if they're

3382
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:42,520
not scarce

3383
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:43,800
it doesn't

3384
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:44,260
take work

3385
00:54:44,260 --> 00:54:44,560
to get

3386
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:44,840
them

3387
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:46,140
as soon

3388
00:54:46,140 --> 00:54:46,380
as you

3389
00:54:46,380 --> 00:54:46,940
have a

3390
00:54:46,940 --> 00:54:47,220
nice

3391
00:54:47,220 --> 00:54:47,560
naming

3392
00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:48,060
system

3393
00:54:48,060 --> 00:54:49,260
some

3394
00:54:49,260 --> 00:54:49,740
arseholes

3395
00:54:49,740 --> 00:54:50,200
going to

3396
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:50,780
come along

3397
00:54:50,780 --> 00:54:52,100
and register

3398
00:54:52,100 --> 00:54:53,380
every short

3399
00:54:53,380 --> 00:54:53,680
name

3400
00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:54,280
themselves

3401
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:55,900
so

3402
00:54:55,900 --> 00:54:56,980
this

3403
00:54:56,980 --> 00:54:57,960
Bitcoin

3404
00:54:57,960 --> 00:54:58,940
replacement

3405
00:54:58,940 --> 00:54:59,680
for DMS

3406
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,520
is

3407
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:02,380
precisely

3408
00:55:02,380 --> 00:55:02,940
what I

3409
00:55:02,940 --> 00:55:04,020
wanted

3410
00:55:04,020 --> 00:55:04,340
and what

3411
00:55:04,340 --> 00:55:04,880
I was

3412
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:05,460
theorizing

3413
00:55:05,460 --> 00:55:05,800
about

3414
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:06,600
which is

3415
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:07,160
not

3416
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:07,800
a

3417
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:08,620
DNS

3418
00:55:08,620 --> 00:55:09,120
system

3419
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:09,420
but

3420
00:55:09,420 --> 00:55:09,940
rather

3421
00:55:09,940 --> 00:55:12,860
short name

3422
00:55:12,860 --> 00:55:14,260
short bit

3423
00:55:14,260 --> 00:55:14,780
of text

3424
00:55:14,780 --> 00:55:15,440
to long

3425
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:16,300
bit of text

3426
00:55:16,300 --> 00:55:17,340
tuple

3427
00:55:17,340 --> 00:55:17,920
registering

3428
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:18,780
service

3429
00:55:18,780 --> 00:55:19,900
because that

3430
00:55:19,900 --> 00:55:20,400
is the

3431
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:20,920
abstraction

3432
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:21,700
of domain names

3433
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:22,020
and all

3434
00:55:22,020 --> 00:55:22,600
these problems

3435
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:23,640
is you have

3436
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:24,220
something that

3437
00:55:24,220 --> 00:55:25,140
you want to

3438
00:55:25,140 --> 00:55:25,700
register that

3439
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:26,220
is short

3440
00:55:26,220 --> 00:55:28,000
and you want

3441
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:28,320
to couple

3442
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:28,800
that to

3443
00:55:28,800 --> 00:55:29,320
something that

3444
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,000
is unmemorable

3445
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,160
or longer

3446
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:32,680
so for

3447
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:33,180
example

3448
00:55:33,180 --> 00:55:36,220
the First

3449
00:55:36,220 --> 00:55:36,600
Amendment

3450
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:39,420
that phrase

3451
00:55:39,420 --> 00:55:40,500
the US

3452
00:55:40,500 --> 00:55:41,080
First Amendment

3453
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:42,080
that's a very

3454
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:42,900
short phrase

3455
00:55:42,900 --> 00:55:43,880
but it expands

3456
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:44,320
to a longer

3457
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:44,980
bit of text

3458
00:55:44,980 --> 00:55:46,780
so you take

3459
00:55:46,780 --> 00:55:47,140
the hash

3460
00:55:47,140 --> 00:55:47,940
of this text

3461
00:55:47,940 --> 00:55:49,580
and now you've

3462
00:55:49,580 --> 00:55:49,980
got something

3463
00:55:49,980 --> 00:55:50,660
that's intrinsically

3464
00:55:50,660 --> 00:55:51,300
coupled to that

3465
00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:52,020
that's unmemorable

3466
00:55:52,020 --> 00:55:53,260
can't memorize it

3467
00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:54,300
but then you can

3468
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:54,780
register

3469
00:55:54,780 --> 00:55:55,900
US First Amendment

3470
00:55:55,900 --> 00:55:56,820
coupled to the

3471
00:55:56,820 --> 00:55:57,120
hash

3472
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:59,300
and that

3473
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:00,200
then means

3474
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:00,980
you have a

3475
00:56:00,980 --> 00:56:02,960
structure

3476
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:03,620
where you can

3477
00:56:03,620 --> 00:56:04,220
tell whether

3478
00:56:04,220 --> 00:56:05,040
something has been

3479
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:05,540
published or

3480
00:56:05,540 --> 00:56:06,040
unpublished

3481
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:06,920
you can

3482
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,980
one piece of

3483
00:56:08,980 --> 00:56:09,300
human

3484
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:10,260
intellectual

3485
00:56:10,260 --> 00:56:10,780
information

3486
00:56:10,780 --> 00:56:11,480
can cite

3487
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,460
another one

3488
00:56:13,460 --> 00:56:15,380
in a way

3489
00:56:15,380 --> 00:56:16,500
that is

3490
00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:18,300
I'm sort of

3491
00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:20,540
can

3492
00:56:20,540 --> 00:56:22,700
can't be

3493
00:56:22,700 --> 00:56:23,200
manipulated

3494
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:24,760
and if it is

3495
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:25,060
censored

3496
00:56:25,060 --> 00:56:25,520
the censorship

3497
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:26,100
can be found

3498
00:56:26,100 --> 00:56:26,400
out

3499
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:27,140
and if one

3500
00:56:27,140 --> 00:56:28,580
place is censored

3501
00:56:28,580 --> 00:56:29,060
well you can

3502
00:56:29,060 --> 00:56:30,140
scale the entire

3503
00:56:30,140 --> 00:56:31,040
world for this

3504
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:31,320
hash

3505
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:31,840
and no matter

3506
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:32,560
where you find

3507
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:32,940
it you know

3508
00:56:32,940 --> 00:56:33,580
it is what

3509
00:56:33,580 --> 00:56:33,940
you wanted

3510
00:56:33,940 --> 00:56:34,520
precisely

3511
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:35,520
so that

3512
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,120
in theory

3513
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:37,520
then it

3514
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:37,940
permits

3515
00:56:37,940 --> 00:56:39,400
human beings

3516
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:40,140
to build up

3517
00:56:40,140 --> 00:56:41,560
an intellectual

3518
00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:42,240
scaffold

3519
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:44,540
where

3520
00:56:44,540 --> 00:56:45,500
every

3521
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:46,820
citation

3522
00:56:46,820 --> 00:56:48,180
every reference

3523
00:56:48,180 --> 00:56:48,800
to some other

3524
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:49,180
part of

3525
00:56:49,180 --> 00:56:50,120
human intellectual

3526
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:50,880
content is

3527
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:51,520
precise

3528
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:52,860
and can be

3529
00:56:52,860 --> 00:56:53,540
discovered

3530
00:56:53,540 --> 00:56:54,360
if it exists

3531
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:54,940
out there

3532
00:56:54,940 --> 00:56:55,360
anywhere

3533
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:56,380
at all

3534
00:56:56,380 --> 00:56:56,960
and it's not

3535
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:57,540
dependent on

3536
00:56:57,540 --> 00:56:58,080
any particular

3537
00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:58,740
organization

3538
00:56:58,740 --> 00:57:01,080
so

3539
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,220
as a way

3540
00:57:03,220 --> 00:57:03,620
of

3541
00:57:03,620 --> 00:57:05,080
publishing

3542
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:09,160
this seems

3543
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:09,560
to be

3544
00:57:09,560 --> 00:57:10,220
the most

3545
00:57:10,220 --> 00:57:10,540
censorship

3546
00:57:10,540 --> 00:57:11,120
resistant

3547
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:12,520
manner of

3548
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:12,860
publishing

3549
00:57:12,860 --> 00:57:13,400
possible

3550
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:14,320
because it

3551
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:15,080
is not

3552
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:15,900
dependent on

3553
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:16,980
any particular

3554
00:57:16,980 --> 00:57:17,900
mechanism of

3555
00:57:17,900 --> 00:57:18,060
publishing

3556
00:57:18,060 --> 00:57:18,520
you could be

3557
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:18,920
publishing

3558
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:19,840
through the

3559
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:20,260
post

3560
00:57:20,260 --> 00:57:20,760
you could be

3561
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:21,200
publishing

3562
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:22,360
on conventional

3563
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:22,880
websites

3564
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:23,340
you could be

3565
00:57:23,340 --> 00:57:23,980
publishing using

3566
00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:24,420
bit writers

3567
00:57:24,420 --> 00:57:24,940
and publishing

3568
00:57:24,940 --> 00:57:25,380
whatever

3569
00:57:25,380 --> 00:57:26,960
but the naming

3570
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:28,100
is consistent

3571
00:57:28,100 --> 00:57:32,820
and

3572
00:57:32,820 --> 00:57:33,040
same

3573
00:57:33,040 --> 00:57:34,300
publishing

3574
00:57:34,300 --> 00:57:35,620
is also

3575
00:57:35,620 --> 00:57:35,920
a matter

3576
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:36,520
of transferring

3577
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:38,080
all you

3578
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:38,460
then have

3579
00:57:38,460 --> 00:57:38,880
to do

3580
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:39,280
is

3581
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:39,860
if you

3582
00:57:39,860 --> 00:57:40,160
want to

3583
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:40,600
transfer

3584
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:41,000
something

3585
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:41,580
anonymously

3586
00:57:41,580 --> 00:57:42,260
to someone

3587
00:57:42,260 --> 00:57:42,700
else

3588
00:57:42,700 --> 00:57:43,520
one particular

3589
00:57:43,520 --> 00:57:44,000
person

3590
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:44,820
you encrypt

3591
00:57:44,820 --> 00:57:45,360
the information

3592
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:46,360
with their

3593
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:46,700
key

3594
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:47,440
and you

3595
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:48,100
publish it

3596
00:57:48,100 --> 00:57:49,100
are you

3597
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:49,620
worried

3598
00:57:49,620 --> 00:57:50,420
this

3599
00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:50,860
entire

3600
00:57:50,860 --> 00:57:51,180
system

3601
00:57:51,180 --> 00:57:51,580
depends

3602
00:57:51,580 --> 00:57:51,840
on

3603
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:52,520
basically

3604
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:52,860
whatever

3605
00:57:52,860 --> 00:57:53,120
world

3606
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:53,980
key

3607
00:57:53,980 --> 00:57:54,460
structures

3608
00:57:54,460 --> 00:57:54,880
are you

3609
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:55,320
worried

3610
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:55,600
that

3611
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,020
key

3612
00:57:56,020 --> 00:57:56,400
structures

3613
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:56,760
would fall

3614
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:57,100
apart

3615
00:57:57,100 --> 00:57:59,260
well

3616
00:57:59,260 --> 00:57:59,520
the

3617
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,120
hashing

3618
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:02,060
in terms

3619
00:58:02,060 --> 00:58:02,260
of the

3620
00:58:02,260 --> 00:58:02,520
naming

3621
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:03,040
part

3622
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:04,400
going

3623
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:05,000
to

3624
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:05,480
hashing

3625
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,340
it doesn't

3626
00:58:08,340 --> 00:58:08,680
depend on

3627
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:08,900
the key

3628
00:58:08,900 --> 00:58:09,180
structure

3629
00:58:09,180 --> 00:58:09,740
at all

3630
00:58:09,740 --> 00:58:11,820
in terms

3631
00:58:11,820 --> 00:58:12,160
of

3632
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:14,320
bitcoin

3633
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:14,840
has its

3634
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:15,180
own

3635
00:58:15,180 --> 00:58:15,940
key

3636
00:58:15,940 --> 00:58:16,300
structure

3637
00:58:16,300 --> 00:58:16,680
and that's

3638
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:17,620
an independent

3639
00:58:17,620 --> 00:58:18,060
thing

3640
00:58:18,060 --> 00:58:18,600
there's all

3641
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:18,860
sorts of

3642
00:58:18,860 --> 00:58:19,100
problems

3643
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:19,360
that

3644
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:19,720
hackers

3645
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:20,080
can come

3646
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:20,280
in

3647
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:20,660
still

3648
00:58:20,660 --> 00:58:21,000
keys

3649
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:21,360
etc

3650
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:22,000
they're

3651
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:22,340
the same

3652
00:58:22,340 --> 00:58:22,740
problems

3653
00:58:22,740 --> 00:58:23,040
that you

3654
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:23,180
have

3655
00:58:23,180 --> 00:58:23,340
with

3656
00:58:23,340 --> 00:58:23,700
cash

3657
00:58:23,700 --> 00:58:24,260
are

3658
00:58:24,260 --> 00:58:24,840
needed

3659
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:25,380
to

3660
00:58:25,380 --> 00:58:25,940
protect

3661
00:58:25,940 --> 00:58:26,120
the

3662
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:26,320
cash

3663
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:26,660
etc

3664
00:58:26,660 --> 00:58:27,260
and

3665
00:58:27,260 --> 00:58:27,460
some

3666
00:58:27,460 --> 00:58:27,900
enhancements

3667
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:28,180
you can

3668
00:58:28,180 --> 00:58:28,480
use

3669
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:28,880
to try

3670
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:29,120
and

3671
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:29,720
remove

3672
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:30,260
incentives

3673
00:58:30,260 --> 00:58:31,100
one way

3674
00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:31,240
or

3675
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:31,520
another

3676
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:31,780
for

3677
00:58:31,780 --> 00:58:32,180
example

3678
00:58:32,180 --> 00:58:33,040
you

3679
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:33,280
can

3680
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,380
introduce

3681
00:58:34,380 --> 00:58:35,080
a

3682
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:35,760
subcurrency

3683
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:36,360
with fixed

3684
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:36,900
periods

3685
00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:37,800
of

3686
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:39,120
spends

3687
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:40,280
so

3688
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:40,780
you can

3689
00:58:40,780 --> 00:58:41,100
retract

3690
00:58:41,100 --> 00:58:41,480
for one

3691
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:41,700
week

3692
00:58:41,820 --> 00:58:41,980
one

3693
00:58:41,980 --> 00:58:42,260
day

3694
00:58:42,260 --> 00:58:42,560
and

3695
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:42,940
a

3696
00:58:42,940 --> 00:58:43,220
merchant

3697
00:58:43,220 --> 00:58:43,560
will

3698
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:43,900
accept

3699
00:58:43,900 --> 00:58:44,040
or

3700
00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:44,180
not

3701
00:58:44,180 --> 00:58:44,400
accept

3702
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:44,780
the

3703
00:58:44,780 --> 00:58:45,000
average

3704
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:45,300
person

3705
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:45,560
doesn't

3706
00:58:45,560 --> 00:58:46,020
understand

3707
00:58:46,020 --> 00:58:46,240
that

3708
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:46,420
when

3709
00:58:46,420 --> 00:58:46,880
RSA

3710
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:47,080
was

3711
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:47,360
broken

3712
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:47,780
into

3713
00:58:47,780 --> 00:58:49,300
an awful

3714
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:49,620
lot

3715
00:58:49,620 --> 00:58:49,840
of

3716
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:50,080
very

3717
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:50,360
important

3718
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:50,780
keys

3719
00:58:50,780 --> 00:58:51,420
involving

3720
00:58:51,420 --> 00:58:52,120
commerce

3721
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:52,480
were

3722
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:53,320
taken

3723
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:53,940
by

3724
00:58:53,940 --> 00:58:54,080
the

3725
00:58:54,080 --> 00:58:57,300
public

3726
00:58:57,300 --> 00:58:57,540
key

3727
00:58:57,540 --> 00:58:57,940
structure

3728
00:58:57,940 --> 00:58:58,640
is a

3729
00:58:58,640 --> 00:58:59,300
tremendous

3730
00:58:59,300 --> 00:58:59,900
problem

3731
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:01,400
in the

3732
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:01,600
same

3733
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:01,780
way

3734
00:59:01,780 --> 00:59:01,920
that

3735
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:02,200
domain

3736
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:02,420
name

3737
00:59:02,420 --> 00:59:02,740
structure

3738
00:59:02,740 --> 00:59:02,980
is a

3739
00:59:02,980 --> 00:59:03,440
tremendous

3740
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:03,960
problem

3741
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:05,120
the

3742
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:06,420
browser

3743
00:59:06,420 --> 00:59:06,720
based

3744
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:07,060
public

3745
00:59:07,060 --> 00:59:07,320
key

3746
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:08,680
system

3747
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:08,960
that we

3748
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:09,260
have

3749
00:59:09,260 --> 00:59:09,440
for

3750
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:10,080
authenticating

3751
00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:10,460
what

3752
00:59:10,460 --> 00:59:10,920
websites

3753
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:11,320
are going

3754
00:59:11,320 --> 00:59:11,600
to

3755
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:12,440
it

3756
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:12,980
is

3757
00:59:12,980 --> 00:59:13,440
awful

3758
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:13,660
it

3759
00:59:13,660 --> 00:59:13,820
is

3760
00:59:13,820 --> 00:59:14,260
truly

3761
00:59:14,260 --> 00:59:14,660
awful

3762
00:59:14,660 --> 00:59:15,600
the

3763
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:15,880
number

3764
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:16,100
of

3765
00:59:16,100 --> 00:59:16,380
people

3766
00:59:16,380 --> 00:59:16,580
that

3767
00:59:16,580 --> 00:59:16,700
have

3768
00:59:16,700 --> 00:59:16,860
been

3769
00:59:16,860 --> 00:59:17,340
licensed

3770
00:59:17,340 --> 00:59:17,700
to

3771
00:59:17,700 --> 00:59:18,400
mint

3772
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:18,920
keys

3773
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:20,700
so

3774
00:59:20,700 --> 00:59:21,100
tremendous

3775
00:59:21,100 --> 00:59:21,360
there's

3776
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:21,520
ones

3777
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:21,620
that

3778
00:59:21,620 --> 00:59:21,680
have

3779
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:21,780
gone

3780
00:59:21,780 --> 00:59:22,140
bankrupt

3781
00:59:22,140 --> 00:59:22,400
and

3782
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:22,700
brought

3783
00:59:22,700 --> 00:59:22,900
up

3784
00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:23,100
cheap

3785
00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:23,560
by

3786
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:23,840
Russian

3787
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:24,300
companies

3788
00:59:24,300 --> 00:59:24,860
can

3789
00:59:24,860 --> 00:59:25,840
I

3790
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:26,040
have

3791
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:26,440
been

3792
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:26,760
told

3793
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:27,360
that

3794
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:27,940
VeriSign

3795
00:59:27,940 --> 00:59:28,720
by

3796
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:29,080
people

3797
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:29,360
who

3798
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:29,760
are

3799
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:29,900
in

3800
00:59:29,900 --> 00:59:30,000
the

3801
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:30,260
know

3802
00:59:30,260 --> 00:59:31,460
although

3803
00:59:31,460 --> 00:59:31,600
I'm

3804
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:31,720
not

3805
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:31,920
able

3806
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:32,140
to

3807
00:59:32,140 --> 00:59:32,280
put

3808
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:32,340
on

3809
00:59:32,340 --> 00:59:32,420
the

3810
00:59:32,420 --> 00:59:32,640
public

3811
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:33,000
record

3812
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:33,640
because

3813
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:33,840
I've

3814
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:34,000
only

3815
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:34,120
had

3816
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:34,360
one

3817
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:34,740
source

3818
00:59:34,740 --> 00:59:35,960
just

3819
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:36,240
between

3820
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:36,420
you

3821
00:59:36,420 --> 00:59:36,520
and

3822
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:36,760
me

3823
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:38,320
one

3824
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:40,340
source

3825
00:59:40,340 --> 00:59:40,500
that

3826
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:40,700
says

3827
00:59:40,700 --> 00:59:40,840
the

3828
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:41,240
VeriSign

3829
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:41,580
has

3830
00:59:41,580 --> 00:59:42,000
actually

3831
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:42,380
given

3832
00:59:42,380 --> 00:59:43,040
keys

3833
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:44,320
to

3834
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:44,460
the

3835
00:59:44,460 --> 00:59:44,660
US

3836
00:59:44,660 --> 00:59:44,980
government

3837
00:59:44,980 --> 00:59:45,900
so

3838
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:47,140
not all

3839
00:59:47,140 --> 00:59:47,640
but just

3840
00:59:47,640 --> 00:59:48,300
particular

3841
00:59:48,300 --> 00:59:48,660
keys

3842
00:59:48,660 --> 00:59:51,000
so

3843
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,120
that's

3844
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:55,500
a big

3845
00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:55,880
problem

3846
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:56,200
with the

3847
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:56,660
way things

3848
00:59:56,660 --> 00:59:57,260
are authenticated

3849
00:59:57,260 --> 00:59:58,180
presently

3850
00:59:58,180 --> 00:59:58,620
I mean

3851
00:59:58,620 --> 00:59:59,200
there are

3852
00:59:59,200 --> 00:59:59,760
some traditional

3853
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:00,200
alternative

3854
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:00,660
approaches

3855
01:00:00,660 --> 01:00:01,420
like PGP

3856
01:00:01,420 --> 01:00:01,800
has a

3857
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:02,400
web of

3858
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:02,720
trust

3859
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:03,760
I don't

3860
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:04,140
think those

3861
01:00:04,140 --> 01:00:04,520
things really

3862
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:04,700
work

3863
01:00:04,700 --> 01:00:05,000
what I

3864
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:05,160
think

3865
01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:05,420
does

3866
01:00:05,420 --> 01:00:05,820
work

3867
01:00:05,820 --> 01:00:06,460
is

3868
01:00:06,460 --> 01:00:06,700
something

3869
01:00:06,700 --> 01:00:07,040
close

3870
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:07,180
to

3871
01:00:07,180 --> 01:00:07,320
what

3872
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:07,820
SSH

3873
01:00:07,820 --> 01:00:08,140
does

3874
01:00:08,140 --> 01:00:08,560
and

3875
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:08,980
that's

3876
01:00:08,980 --> 01:00:09,640
probably

3877
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:10,000
the way

3878
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:10,360
forward

3879
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:10,820
which is

3880
01:00:10,820 --> 01:00:11,520
it is

3881
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:12,640
opportunistic

3882
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:14,080
key

3883
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:14,720
registration

3884
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,340
so as

3885
01:00:16,340 --> 01:00:16,740
part of

3886
01:00:16,740 --> 01:00:16,880
your

3887
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:17,400
interaction

3888
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:17,960
the first

3889
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:18,360
time you

3890
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:18,820
interact

3891
01:00:18,820 --> 01:00:19,500
you register

3892
01:00:19,500 --> 01:00:20,720
your keys

3893
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:21,700
and then

3894
01:00:21,700 --> 01:00:22,540
if you have

3895
01:00:22,540 --> 01:00:22,960
a few

3896
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,200
points of

3897
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:24,540
keying

3898
01:00:24,540 --> 01:00:24,880
and some

3899
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:25,180
kind of

3900
01:00:25,180 --> 01:00:25,780
plug network

3901
01:00:25,780 --> 01:00:26,080
then

3902
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:27,400
you can

3903
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:28,100
see that

3904
01:00:28,100 --> 01:00:28,400
well

3905
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:29,160
lots of

3906
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:29,580
people have

3907
01:00:29,580 --> 01:00:30,000
seen that

3908
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:30,300
key

3909
01:00:30,300 --> 01:00:31,420
many times

3910
01:00:31,420 --> 01:00:31,640
in the

3911
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:32,060
past

3912
01:00:32,060 --> 01:00:33,020
so I

3913
01:00:33,020 --> 01:00:33,420
have one

3914
01:00:33,420 --> 01:00:33,640
more

3915
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:34,120
technical

3916
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:34,640
question

3917
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:34,940
and I

3918
01:00:34,940 --> 01:00:35,220
think we

3919
01:00:35,220 --> 01:00:35,420
should

3920
01:00:35,420 --> 01:00:36,040
probably

3921
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:39,220
I'm ready

3922
01:00:39,220 --> 01:00:43,660
when we

3923
01:00:43,660 --> 01:00:43,820
were

3924
01:00:43,820 --> 01:00:44,500
chatting

3925
01:00:44,500 --> 01:00:46,020
we talked

3926
01:00:46,020 --> 01:00:46,260
about

3927
01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:47,160
my idea

3928
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:47,500
that

3929
01:00:47,500 --> 01:00:48,540
empowering

3930
01:00:48,540 --> 01:00:49,160
mobile phones

3931
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:49,940
being empowered

3932
01:00:49,940 --> 01:00:51,300
is changing

3933
01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:51,840
society

3934
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:52,240
and your

3935
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:52,900
rough

3936
01:00:52,900 --> 01:00:53,400
summary of your

3937
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:53,880
answer for

3938
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:54,520
everybody else

3939
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:55,120
was that

3940
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:55,940
people are

3941
01:00:55,940 --> 01:00:56,580
pretty much

3942
01:00:56,580 --> 01:00:57,880
the same

3943
01:00:57,880 --> 01:00:59,260
and something

3944
01:00:59,260 --> 01:01:00,380
big has to

3945
01:01:00,380 --> 01:01:00,860
change their

3946
01:01:00,860 --> 01:01:01,260
behavior

3947
01:01:01,260 --> 01:01:03,100
and you said

3948
01:01:03,100 --> 01:01:04,040
if you were

3949
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:04,740
very interested

3950
01:01:04,740 --> 01:01:05,520
in somebody

3951
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:06,060
building

3952
01:01:06,060 --> 01:01:07,580
phone to phone

3953
01:01:07,580 --> 01:01:07,960
encryption

3954
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:09,620
can you talk

3955
01:01:09,620 --> 01:01:10,100
a little bit

3956
01:01:10,100 --> 01:01:10,580
about

3957
01:01:10,580 --> 01:01:12,580
roughly

3958
01:01:12,580 --> 01:01:13,640
the architecture

3959
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:14,080
where you'd

3960
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:14,540
have a broad

3961
01:01:14,540 --> 01:01:15,300
open network

3962
01:01:15,300 --> 01:01:16,680
and you have

3963
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:17,540
person to person

3964
01:01:17,540 --> 01:01:18,000
encryption

3965
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,720
what does that

3966
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:20,160
mean

3967
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:20,980
technically

3968
01:01:20,980 --> 01:01:23,120
why is it

3969
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:23,540
important

3970
01:01:23,540 --> 01:01:25,440
I think

3971
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:26,400
people don't

3972
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:26,860
understand

3973
01:01:26,860 --> 01:01:28,000
any of this

3974
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:28,300
area

3975
01:01:28,300 --> 01:01:31,400
when we

3976
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:31,720
were

3977
01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:32,460
dealing

3978
01:01:32,460 --> 01:01:32,840
with

3979
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:33,340
Egypt

3980
01:01:33,340 --> 01:01:34,060
we saw

3981
01:01:34,060 --> 01:01:35,540
the Mumbarak

3982
01:01:35,540 --> 01:01:36,160
government

3983
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:37,620
cut off

3984
01:01:37,620 --> 01:01:38,140
the internet

3985
01:01:38,140 --> 01:01:40,240
and we

3986
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:40,580
saw

3987
01:01:40,580 --> 01:01:42,060
there was

3988
01:01:42,060 --> 01:01:42,860
one ISP

3989
01:01:42,860 --> 01:01:43,220
that

3990
01:01:43,220 --> 01:01:44,980
quite a few

3991
01:01:44,980 --> 01:01:45,360
of us

3992
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:45,980
were involved

3993
01:01:45,980 --> 01:01:46,440
in trying

3994
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:47,020
to keep

3995
01:01:47,020 --> 01:01:47,800
its connections

3996
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:48,200
open

3997
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:48,620
it had

3998
01:01:48,620 --> 01:01:49,840
maybe 6%

3999
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:50,380
of the market

4000
01:01:50,380 --> 01:01:52,600
eventually

4001
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:53,140
they cut

4002
01:01:53,140 --> 01:01:53,680
eventually

4003
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,480
the Mumbarak

4004
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:55,840
government

4005
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:56,620
also cut off

4006
01:01:56,620 --> 01:01:57,200
the mobile phone

4007
01:01:57,200 --> 01:01:57,520
system

4008
01:01:57,520 --> 01:01:59,180
and

4009
01:01:59,180 --> 01:02:02,060
why is it

4010
01:02:02,060 --> 01:02:02,500
that that can

4011
01:02:02,500 --> 01:02:02,900
be done

4012
01:02:02,900 --> 01:02:04,860
people with

4013
01:02:04,860 --> 01:02:05,820
mobile phones

4014
01:02:05,820 --> 01:02:08,120
have a device

4015
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:08,500
which can

4016
01:02:08,500 --> 01:02:08,940
communicate

4017
01:02:08,940 --> 01:02:09,500
in the radio

4018
01:02:09,500 --> 01:02:09,920
spectrum

4019
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:11,260
in a city

4020
01:02:11,260 --> 01:02:11,680
they're at

4021
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:12,260
high density

4022
01:02:12,260 --> 01:02:13,960
there's always

4023
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:15,060
if you like

4024
01:02:15,060 --> 01:02:15,500
a path

4025
01:02:15,500 --> 01:02:15,880
between

4026
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:17,520
one person

4027
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:17,880
and another

4028
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:18,320
person

4029
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:21,920
that is

4030
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:22,860
there's always

4031
01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:24,360
a continuous

4032
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:25,020
path for mobile

4033
01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:25,500
phones

4034
01:02:25,500 --> 01:02:26,080
each one

4035
01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:26,360
of which

4036
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:27,560
in theory

4037
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:28,360
hear the radio

4038
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:29,220
of the other

4039
01:02:29,220 --> 01:02:32,180
so in theory

4040
01:02:32,180 --> 01:02:32,540
you could

4041
01:02:32,540 --> 01:02:33,180
form a peer-to-peer

4042
01:02:33,180 --> 01:02:33,380
network

4043
01:02:33,380 --> 01:02:34,540
now the way

4044
01:02:34,540 --> 01:02:36,400
most GSM

4045
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:37,000
phones are

4046
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:37,460
being instructed

4047
01:02:37,460 --> 01:02:38,180
and others

4048
01:02:38,180 --> 01:02:38,920
is that they

4049
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:39,760
receive on a

4050
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:40,560
different frequency

4051
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:41,080
to which they

4052
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:41,560
transmit

4053
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:43,580
and that means

4054
01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:44,240
that they cannot

4055
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:45,880
form peer-to-peer

4056
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:46,240
networks

4057
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:46,940
they have to go

4058
01:02:46,940 --> 01:02:47,380
through base

4059
01:02:47,380 --> 01:02:47,720
stations

4060
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:49,940
but we are

4061
01:02:49,940 --> 01:02:50,580
seeing now

4062
01:02:50,580 --> 01:02:52,360
that mobile

4063
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:53,240
phones are

4064
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:53,820
becoming more

4065
01:02:53,820 --> 01:02:54,700
flexible in terms

4066
01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:55,280
of base station

4067
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:55,700
programming

4068
01:02:55,700 --> 01:02:56,640
they need to

4069
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:57,060
do this

4070
01:02:57,060 --> 01:02:57,660
because they

4071
01:02:57,660 --> 01:02:58,280
operate

4072
01:02:58,280 --> 01:02:59,680
in different

4073
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:00,100
markets

4074
01:03:00,100 --> 01:03:00,440
that have

4075
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:00,660
different

4076
01:03:00,660 --> 01:03:01,160
frequencies

4077
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,240
they have

4078
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:04,560
different forms

4079
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:05,020
of wireless

4080
01:03:05,020 --> 01:03:05,600
output

4081
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:06,780
and so

4082
01:03:06,780 --> 01:03:09,380
and also

4083
01:03:09,380 --> 01:03:11,300
even if there's

4084
01:03:11,300 --> 01:03:11,580
not

4085
01:03:11,580 --> 01:03:12,420
sufficiently

4086
01:03:12,420 --> 01:03:13,200
flexible mobile

4087
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:13,720
phones

4088
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:16,200
we are

4089
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:16,960
seeing that

4090
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:17,980
in the mobile

4091
01:03:17,980 --> 01:03:18,400
phone

4092
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:19,200
aspect

4093
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,060
maybe

4094
01:03:21,060 --> 01:03:21,800
WiMAX

4095
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,860
is coming

4096
01:03:24,860 --> 01:03:25,220
along

4097
01:03:25,220 --> 01:03:25,980
which will give

4098
01:03:25,980 --> 01:03:26,620
them greater

4099
01:03:26,620 --> 01:03:27,900
radius

4100
01:03:27,900 --> 01:03:28,580
for two-way

4101
01:03:28,580 --> 01:03:29,140
communications

4102
01:03:29,140 --> 01:03:30,640
but also

4103
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:31,100
it's getting

4104
01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:31,640
very cheap

4105
01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:31,960
to make

4106
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:32,760
your own

4107
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:33,300
base station

4108
01:03:33,300 --> 01:03:34,920
there's a

4109
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:35,500
software now

4110
01:03:35,500 --> 01:03:35,960
which will

4111
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:36,400
run a

4112
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:36,940
base station

4113
01:03:36,940 --> 01:03:38,280
for you

4114
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:39,120
so you can

4115
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:39,560
throw these

4116
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:39,940
things up

4117
01:03:39,940 --> 01:03:40,220
and make

4118
01:03:40,220 --> 01:03:40,500
your own

4119
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:40,840
networks

4120
01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:41,400
with conventional

4121
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:42,000
mobile phones

4122
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:42,520
pretty quickly

4123
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:42,940
in fact

4124
01:03:42,940 --> 01:03:44,320
this is what

4125
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:44,640
is done

4126
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:45,220
to spy

4127
01:03:45,220 --> 01:03:46,080
cheap spying

4128
01:03:46,080 --> 01:03:46,480
on mobile

4129
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:46,900
phones

4130
01:03:46,900 --> 01:03:47,280
as you

4131
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:48,380
set up a

4132
01:03:48,380 --> 01:03:49,120
base station

4133
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:49,860
and there's

4134
01:03:49,860 --> 01:03:50,460
vans now

4135
01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:50,760
and you can

4136
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:51,100
buy these

4137
01:03:51,100 --> 01:03:51,500
on bulk

4138
01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:51,900
on the

4139
01:03:51,900 --> 01:03:52,560
commercial

4140
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:53,260
spy market

4141
01:03:53,260 --> 01:04:01,100
so during

4142
01:04:01,100 --> 01:04:01,520
these

4143
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,140
revolutionary

4144
01:04:04,140 --> 01:04:05,400
periods

4145
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:06,540
the people

4146
01:04:06,540 --> 01:04:06,980
involved in

4147
01:04:06,980 --> 01:04:07,320
the revolution

4148
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:07,820
have to be

4149
01:04:07,820 --> 01:04:08,080
able to

4150
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:08,520
communicate

4151
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:09,640
and if they

4152
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:09,980
need to be

4153
01:04:09,980 --> 01:04:10,260
able to

4154
01:04:10,260 --> 01:04:10,620
communicate

4155
01:04:10,620 --> 01:04:11,100
in order to

4156
01:04:11,100 --> 01:04:11,900
plan quickly

4157
01:04:11,900 --> 01:04:12,400
and also

4158
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:13,400
to communicate

4159
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:14,300
information about

4160
01:04:14,300 --> 01:04:15,060
what is happening

4161
01:04:15,060 --> 01:04:16,660
in the environment

4162
01:04:16,660 --> 01:04:17,620
quickly so they

4163
01:04:17,620 --> 01:04:18,480
can dynamically

4164
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:19,280
adapt to it

4165
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:20,060
and produce

4166
01:04:20,060 --> 01:04:20,680
a next strategy

4167
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:21,920
so where you

4168
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:22,620
only have the

4169
01:04:22,620 --> 01:04:23,340
security service

4170
01:04:23,340 --> 01:04:23,860
has been able

4171
01:04:23,860 --> 01:04:24,500
to do this

4172
01:04:24,500 --> 01:04:26,120
and you've

4173
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:26,420
turned the

4174
01:04:26,420 --> 01:04:26,840
mobile phone

4175
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:27,480
system off

4176
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:28,740
security services

4177
01:04:28,740 --> 01:04:29,480
have such a

4178
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:30,380
tremendous advantage

4179
01:04:30,380 --> 01:04:31,000
compared to

4180
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:32,120
people that are

4181
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:32,740
trying to

4182
01:04:32,740 --> 01:04:34,320
oppose them

4183
01:04:34,320 --> 01:04:38,160
if you have

4184
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:38,560
a system

4185
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:38,920
where

4186
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:40,400
individuals are

4187
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:40,800
able to

4188
01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:41,300
communicate

4189
01:04:41,300 --> 01:04:43,580
securely

4190
01:04:43,580 --> 01:04:45,360
and robustly

4191
01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:46,940
despite what

4192
01:04:46,940 --> 01:04:47,700
security services

4193
01:04:47,700 --> 01:04:48,140
are doing

4194
01:04:48,140 --> 01:04:49,260
then security

4195
01:04:49,260 --> 01:04:49,960
services

4196
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:50,980
have to give

4197
01:04:50,980 --> 01:04:51,580
more ground

4198
01:04:51,580 --> 01:04:52,980
it's not

4199
01:04:52,980 --> 01:04:53,120
it's not that

4200
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:53,460
it's not that

4201
01:04:53,460 --> 01:04:53,900
the government's

4202
01:04:53,900 --> 01:04:54,500
necessarily going

4203
01:04:54,500 --> 01:04:55,260
to be overthrown

4204
01:04:55,260 --> 01:04:56,120
but rather

4205
01:04:56,120 --> 01:04:57,260
they have to

4206
01:04:57,260 --> 01:04:57,680
make more

4207
01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:58,580
concessions

4208
01:04:58,580 --> 01:05:00,620
so you're

4209
01:05:00,620 --> 01:05:01,100
arguing that

4210
01:05:01,100 --> 01:05:01,540
even with

4211
01:05:01,540 --> 01:05:02,300
existing phones

4212
01:05:02,300 --> 01:05:02,900
they could be

4213
01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:03,380
modified

4214
01:05:03,380 --> 01:05:05,300
to have

4215
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:05,860
peer-to-peer

4216
01:05:05,860 --> 01:05:06,660
cryptic tunnels

4217
01:05:06,660 --> 01:05:07,880
for voice

4218
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:08,260
for voice and

4219
01:05:08,260 --> 01:05:08,520
data

4220
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:09,040
presumably

4221
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:10,480
voice a bit

4222
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:10,940
harder

4223
01:05:10,940 --> 01:05:12,780
what we did

4224
01:05:12,780 --> 01:05:15,940
internally in

4225
01:05:15,940 --> 01:05:16,480
this prototype

4226
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:17,180
I designed

4227
01:05:17,180 --> 01:05:17,660
was a

4228
01:05:17,660 --> 01:05:20,540
which only

4229
01:05:20,540 --> 01:05:21,440
works for

4230
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:22,480
medium-sized

4231
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:22,980
groups

4232
01:05:22,980 --> 01:05:24,480
it's sort of

4233
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:25,980
a peer-to-peer

4234
01:05:25,980 --> 01:05:26,940
flood

4235
01:05:26,940 --> 01:05:28,280
UDP

4236
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:28,940
encrypted

4237
01:05:28,940 --> 01:05:29,720
network

4238
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:30,640
UDP

4239
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:31,240
permits you

4240
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:31,520
to put

4241
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:31,880
lots and

4242
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:32,080
lots of

4243
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:32,540
cover traffic

4244
01:05:32,540 --> 01:05:32,840
in

4245
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:34,060
because you

4246
01:05:34,060 --> 01:05:34,400
can send

4247
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:34,760
stuff to

4248
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:35,060
random

4249
01:05:35,060 --> 01:05:35,380
internet

4250
01:05:35,380 --> 01:05:35,680
hosts

4251
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:37,900
that way

4252
01:05:37,900 --> 01:05:38,380
you can't

4253
01:05:38,380 --> 01:05:38,840
be blocked

4254
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:39,160
right

4255
01:05:39,160 --> 01:05:40,220
UDP

4256
01:05:40,220 --> 01:05:40,540
is a

4257
01:05:40,540 --> 01:05:40,760
single

4258
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:41,120
packet

4259
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:42,340
so you

4260
01:05:42,340 --> 01:05:42,600
send it

4261
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:43,300
to random

4262
01:05:43,300 --> 01:05:44,120
internet

4263
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:44,540
hosts

4264
01:05:44,540 --> 01:05:45,020
and

4265
01:05:45,020 --> 01:05:46,440
a random

4266
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:46,760
internet

4267
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:47,140
host

4268
01:05:47,140 --> 01:05:47,740
doesn't

4269
01:05:47,740 --> 01:05:48,180
respond

4270
01:05:48,180 --> 01:05:49,000
which is

4271
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:49,280
exactly

4272
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:49,620
the same

4273
01:05:49,620 --> 01:05:49,840
thing

4274
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:50,080
as a

4275
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:50,280
host

4276
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:50,400
that

4277
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:50,500
is

4278
01:05:50,500 --> 01:05:50,860
receiving

4279
01:05:50,860 --> 01:05:51,220
stuff

4280
01:05:51,220 --> 01:05:51,740
you can

4281
01:05:51,740 --> 01:05:51,900
even

4282
01:05:51,900 --> 01:05:52,260
structure

4283
01:05:52,260 --> 01:05:53,540
and using

4284
01:05:53,540 --> 01:05:53,780
this

4285
01:05:53,780 --> 01:05:54,080
you can

4286
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:54,300
do

4287
01:05:54,300 --> 01:05:54,500
hole

4288
01:05:54,500 --> 01:05:54,760
punching

4289
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:55,200
through

4290
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,380
firewalls

4291
01:05:57,380 --> 01:05:58,940
it means

4292
01:05:58,940 --> 01:05:59,280
that

4293
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,380
normal

4294
01:06:01,380 --> 01:06:01,940
at home

4295
01:06:01,940 --> 01:06:02,380
people

4296
01:06:02,380 --> 01:06:02,660
can

4297
01:06:02,660 --> 01:06:02,960
use

4298
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:03,240
this

4299
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:03,900
they

4300
01:06:03,900 --> 01:06:04,080
don't

4301
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:04,260
need

4302
01:06:04,260 --> 01:06:04,340
to

4303
01:06:04,340 --> 01:06:04,460
have

4304
01:06:04,460 --> 01:06:04,560
a

4305
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:04,820
server

4306
01:06:04,820 --> 01:06:06,620
and

4307
01:06:06,620 --> 01:06:06,800
it's

4308
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:06,940
very

4309
01:06:06,940 --> 01:06:07,260
light

4310
01:06:07,260 --> 01:06:07,600
bandwidth

4311
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:07,920
so you

4312
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:07,980
can

4313
01:06:07,980 --> 01:06:08,120
put

4314
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:08,240
on

4315
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:08,480
mobile

4316
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:08,820
phones

4317
01:06:08,820 --> 01:06:08,940
as

4318
01:06:08,940 --> 01:06:09,140
well

4319
01:06:09,140 --> 01:06:09,840
so

4320
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:10,500
the

4321
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:11,300
killer

4322
01:06:11,300 --> 01:06:11,900
application

4323
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:12,820
is

4324
01:06:12,820 --> 01:06:13,200
not

4325
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:14,520
lots

4326
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:14,640
of

4327
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:14,940
voice

4328
01:06:14,940 --> 01:06:15,320
rather

4329
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:15,560
it

4330
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:15,800
is

4331
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:16,520
chat

4332
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:16,900
rooms

4333
01:06:16,900 --> 01:06:19,180
small

4334
01:06:19,180 --> 01:06:19,560
chat

4335
01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:19,860
rooms

4336
01:06:19,860 --> 01:06:20,160
of

4337
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:20,840
30

4338
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:22,720
100

4339
01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:23,180
people

4340
01:06:23,180 --> 01:06:25,240
that

4341
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:25,520
is

4342
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:25,900
what

4343
01:06:25,900 --> 01:06:27,160
revolutionary

4344
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:27,660
movements

4345
01:06:27,660 --> 01:06:27,980
need

4346
01:06:27,980 --> 01:06:29,400
and they

4347
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:29,680
need it

4348
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:29,940
to be

4349
01:06:29,940 --> 01:06:30,340
secure

4350
01:06:30,340 --> 01:06:31,060
and they

4351
01:06:31,060 --> 01:06:31,200
need it

4352
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:31,360
to be

4353
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:31,900
robust

4354
01:06:31,900 --> 01:06:33,060
and this

4355
01:06:33,060 --> 01:06:33,640
system

4356
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:34,200
I did

4357
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:35,220
was

4358
01:06:35,220 --> 01:06:35,760
protocol

4359
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:36,300
independent

4360
01:06:36,300 --> 01:06:37,440
so yes

4361
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:37,660
you've got

4362
01:06:37,660 --> 01:06:37,780
your

4363
01:06:37,780 --> 01:06:38,360
encapsulating

4364
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:38,640
thing

4365
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:38,960
UDP

4366
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:39,440
or whatever

4367
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,080
in theory

4368
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:41,340
you could

4369
01:06:41,340 --> 01:06:42,240
be pushing

4370
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:42,580
it over

4371
01:06:42,580 --> 01:06:42,880
SMS

4372
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:43,300
you could

4373
01:06:43,300 --> 01:06:43,760
be pushing

4374
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:44,080
it over

4375
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:44,440
UDP

4376
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:44,800
you could

4377
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:45,060
be pushing

4378
01:06:45,060 --> 01:06:45,360
it whatever

4379
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:46,020
you could

4380
01:06:46,020 --> 01:06:46,240
be using

4381
01:06:46,240 --> 01:06:46,400
it on

4382
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:46,600
mobile

4383
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:46,920
phone

4384
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:47,160
you could

4385
01:06:47,160 --> 01:06:47,340
be using

4386
01:06:47,340 --> 01:06:47,460
it on

4387
01:06:47,460 --> 01:06:47,740
desktop

4388
01:06:47,740 --> 01:06:48,120
etc

4389
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:48,760
so if

4390
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:48,880
you can

4391
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:49,120
put that

4392
01:06:49,120 --> 01:06:49,460
into one

4393
01:06:49,460 --> 01:06:49,660
big

4394
01:06:49,660 --> 01:06:49,960
mesh

4395
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:50,340
then all

4396
01:06:50,340 --> 01:06:50,880
you need

4397
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:51,580
even when

4398
01:06:51,580 --> 01:06:51,900
the whole

4399
01:06:51,900 --> 01:06:52,480
country is

4400
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:53,140
shut off

4401
01:06:53,140 --> 01:06:54,220
you just

4402
01:06:54,220 --> 01:06:54,680
need one

4403
01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:55,160
satellite

4404
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:55,740
connection

4405
01:06:55,740 --> 01:06:56,120
out

4406
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:57,180
and your

4407
01:06:57,180 --> 01:06:57,760
internal

4408
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:58,200
network

4409
01:06:58,200 --> 01:06:58,480
is then

4410
01:06:58,480 --> 01:06:58,760
connected

4411
01:06:58,760 --> 01:06:58,960
to the

4412
01:06:58,960 --> 01:06:59,200
rest of

4413
01:06:59,200 --> 01:06:59,520
the world

4414
01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:00,340
and if

4415
01:07:00,340 --> 01:07:01,000
you've got

4416
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:01,280
a good

4417
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:01,560
routing

4418
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:02,100
system

4419
01:07:02,100 --> 01:07:02,660
so if

4420
01:07:02,660 --> 01:07:02,800
it's a

4421
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:03,000
small

4422
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:03,300
network

4423
01:07:03,300 --> 01:07:04,040
you can

4424
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:04,220
use

4425
01:07:04,220 --> 01:07:04,640
flood

4426
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:06,120
and thereby

4427
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:07,220
a flood

4428
01:07:07,220 --> 01:07:07,560
network

4429
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:08,100
takes every

4430
01:07:08,100 --> 01:07:08,840
possible path

4431
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:09,480
therefore it

4432
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:10,240
must take

4433
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:10,700
the fastest

4434
01:07:10,700 --> 01:07:11,460
possible path

4435
01:07:11,460 --> 01:07:14,860
so a flood

4436
01:07:14,860 --> 01:07:15,240
network will

4437
01:07:15,240 --> 01:07:15,740
always find

4438
01:07:15,740 --> 01:07:16,000
a way

4439
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:16,180
but it

4440
01:07:16,180 --> 01:07:16,740
doesn't scale

4441
01:07:16,740 --> 01:07:18,780
to large

4442
01:07:18,780 --> 01:07:19,260
quantities

4443
01:07:19,260 --> 01:07:20,200
but if

4444
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:20,360
you've got

4445
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:20,580
a good

4446
01:07:20,580 --> 01:07:20,840
routing

4447
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:21,220
system

4448
01:07:21,220 --> 01:07:21,540
you just

4449
01:07:21,540 --> 01:07:21,860
need this

4450
01:07:21,860 --> 01:07:22,100
one

4451
01:07:22,100 --> 01:07:22,380
link

4452
01:07:22,380 --> 01:07:22,700
out

4453
01:07:22,700 --> 01:07:24,440
and in

4454
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:26,180
Cairo

4455
01:07:26,180 --> 01:07:30,220
we had

4456
01:07:30,220 --> 01:07:31,080
people who

4457
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:31,660
hacked

4458
01:07:31,660 --> 01:07:33,340
Toyota

4459
01:07:33,340 --> 01:07:34,360
in Cairo

4460
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:35,800
and took

4461
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:36,300
over their

4462
01:07:36,300 --> 01:07:36,700
satellite

4463
01:07:36,700 --> 01:07:39,420
and used

4464
01:07:39,420 --> 01:07:40,140
that to

4465
01:07:40,140 --> 01:07:40,820
connect to

4466
01:07:40,820 --> 01:07:41,820
this ISP

4467
01:07:41,820 --> 01:07:42,220
that fed

4468
01:07:42,220 --> 01:07:42,780
6% of

4469
01:07:42,780 --> 01:07:43,180
the market

4470
01:07:43,180 --> 01:07:45,520
and so

4471
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:46,280
that sort

4472
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:46,480
of thing

4473
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:46,800
was going

4474
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:47,060
on all

4475
01:07:47,060 --> 01:07:47,440
this time

4476
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:47,720
there was

4477
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:48,540
a hacker

4478
01:07:48,540 --> 01:07:49,180
war in

4479
01:07:49,180 --> 01:07:50,220
Egypt

4480
01:07:50,220 --> 01:07:50,740
to try

4481
01:07:50,740 --> 01:07:51,260
and keep

4482
01:07:51,260 --> 01:07:52,320
this

4483
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,480
more

4484
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:58,160
independent

4485
01:07:58,160 --> 01:07:58,740
ISP

4486
01:07:58,740 --> 01:07:59,220
that provided

4487
01:07:59,220 --> 01:07:59,840
6% of the

4488
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:00,040
market

4489
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:00,480
up and

4490
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:00,720
going

4491
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:01,500
but it

4492
01:08:01,500 --> 01:08:01,700
shouldn't

4493
01:08:01,700 --> 01:08:01,920
have been

4494
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:02,480
so hard

4495
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:03,800
it should

4496
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:04,020
have been

4497
01:08:04,020 --> 01:08:04,380
the case

4498
01:08:04,380 --> 01:08:04,660
that all

4499
01:08:04,660 --> 01:08:05,000
you need

4500
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:05,380
to do

4501
01:08:05,380 --> 01:08:05,820
is just

4502
01:08:05,820 --> 01:08:06,480
have one

4503
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:06,960
connection

4504
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:08,540
and then

4505
01:08:08,540 --> 01:08:08,960
the most

4506
01:08:08,960 --> 01:08:09,300
important

4507
01:08:09,300 --> 01:08:09,720
information

4508
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:10,100
could get

4509
01:08:10,100 --> 01:08:10,320
out

4510
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:11,340
and if

4511
01:08:11,340 --> 01:08:11,680
you look

4512
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:12,020
at

4513
01:08:12,020 --> 01:08:13,560
if this

4514
01:08:13,560 --> 01:08:14,240
is

4515
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:15,500
equivalent

4516
01:08:15,500 --> 01:08:16,380
to SMS's

4517
01:08:16,380 --> 01:08:16,660
I mean

4518
01:08:16,660 --> 01:08:16,940
look how

4519
01:08:16,940 --> 01:08:17,220
important

4520
01:08:17,220 --> 01:08:17,680
Twitter is

4521
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:17,900
look how

4522
01:08:17,900 --> 01:08:18,120
important

4523
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:18,720
SMS's

4524
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:19,280
actually

4525
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:19,600
human

4526
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:19,960
beings

4527
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:20,240
are

4528
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:20,480
pretty

4529
01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:20,720
good

4530
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:20,860
at

4531
01:08:20,860 --> 01:08:21,280
encoding

4532
01:08:21,280 --> 01:08:21,480
the

4533
01:08:21,480 --> 01:08:21,720
most

4534
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:22,240
important

4535
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:23,240
thing

4536
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:23,400
that's

4537
01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:23,680
happening

4538
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:24,060
into a

4539
01:08:24,060 --> 01:08:24,320
short

4540
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:24,560
amount

4541
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:24,700
of

4542
01:08:24,700 --> 01:08:24,960
data

4543
01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:25,960
there's

4544
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:26,320
not that

4545
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:26,560
many

4546
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:26,860
human

4547
01:08:26,860 --> 01:08:27,360
beings

4548
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:28,160
there

4549
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:28,360
just

4550
01:08:28,360 --> 01:08:28,540
aren't

4551
01:08:28,540 --> 01:08:28,680
that

4552
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:28,940
many

4553
01:08:28,940 --> 01:08:29,300
so

4554
01:08:29,300 --> 01:08:30,240
actually

4555
01:08:30,240 --> 01:08:31,540
one

4556
01:08:31,540 --> 01:08:31,980
pipe

4557
01:08:31,980 --> 01:08:32,200
you

4558
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:32,400
can

4559
01:08:32,400 --> 01:08:33,760
it's

4560
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:33,960
not a

4561
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:34,120
bandwidth

4562
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:34,400
problem

4563
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:34,620
so

4564
01:08:34,620 --> 01:08:35,680
all you

4565
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:35,840
need

4566
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:35,960
is

4567
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:36,160
one

4568
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:36,600
pipe

4569
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:37,400
and

4570
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:37,540
you

4571
01:08:37,540 --> 01:08:37,780
can

4572
01:08:37,780 --> 01:08:38,620
connect

4573
01:08:38,620 --> 01:08:40,500
a

4574
01:08:40,500 --> 01:08:40,760
country

4575
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:41,000
that's

4576
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:41,180
in a

4577
01:08:41,180 --> 01:08:41,580
revolutionary

4578
01:08:41,580 --> 01:08:42,000
state

4579
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:42,220
for the

4580
01:08:42,220 --> 01:08:42,360
rest

4581
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:42,540
of the

4582
01:08:42,540 --> 01:08:42,780
world

4583
01:08:42,780 --> 01:08:43,780
and

4584
01:08:43,780 --> 01:08:44,520
points

4585
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:44,840
within

4586
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:45,080
that

4587
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:45,400
country

4588
01:08:45,400 --> 01:08:46,460
just as

4589
01:08:46,460 --> 01:08:46,800
important

4590
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:47,200
cities

4591
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:47,480
within

4592
01:08:47,480 --> 01:08:47,660
that

4593
01:08:47,660 --> 01:08:47,940
country

4594
01:08:47,940 --> 01:08:49,760
and

4595
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:50,000
it's

4596
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:51,160
not that

4597
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:51,420
hard

4598
01:08:51,420 --> 01:08:51,680
a thing

4599
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:52,040
to do

4600
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:52,720
quite frankly

4601
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,100
it's

4602
01:08:54,100 --> 01:08:55,860
it's

4603
01:08:55,860 --> 01:08:56,060
hard

4604
01:08:56,060 --> 01:08:56,220
to

4605
01:08:56,220 --> 01:08:56,580
stop

4606
01:08:56,580 --> 01:08:56,800
I

4607
01:08:56,800 --> 01:08:59,240
actually

4608
01:08:59,240 --> 01:08:59,500
have

4609
01:08:59,500 --> 01:08:59,680
like

4610
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:00,000
five

4611
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:00,300
hours

4612
01:09:00,300 --> 01:09:00,520
more

4613
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:00,840
I

4614
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:01,040
know

4615
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:01,260
because

4616
01:09:01,260 --> 01:09:01,420
it's

4617
01:09:01,420 --> 01:09:01,600
like

4618
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:01,860
one

4619
01:09:01,860 --> 01:09:02,100
thing

4620
01:09:02,100 --> 01:09:02,220
and

4621
01:09:02,220 --> 01:09:02,360
then

4622
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:02,540
there's

4623
01:09:02,540 --> 01:09:02,680
like

4624
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:03,000
more

4625
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:03,940
I

4626
01:09:03,940 --> 01:09:04,300
totally

4627
01:09:04,300 --> 01:09:04,520
know

4628
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:05,020
how

4629
01:09:05,020 --> 01:09:05,040
how

4630
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:05,140
would

4631
01:09:05,140 --> 01:09:05,240
you

4632
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:05,420
architect

4633
01:09:05,420 --> 01:09:05,800
this

4634
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:05,960
how

4635
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:06,080
would

4636
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:06,140
you

4637
01:09:06,140 --> 01:09:06,340
architect

4638
01:09:06,340 --> 01:09:06,720
that

4639
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:07,820
I

4640
01:09:07,820 --> 01:09:08,120
think

4641
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:08,420
my

4642
01:09:08,420 --> 01:09:09,280
summary

4643
01:09:09,280 --> 01:09:10,440
would

4644
01:09:10,440 --> 01:09:10,660
be

4645
01:09:10,660 --> 01:09:11,140
yeah

4646
01:09:11,140 --> 01:09:16,140
this

4647
01:09:16,140 --> 01:09:16,500
notion

4648
01:09:16,500 --> 01:09:16,940
of

4649
01:09:16,940 --> 01:09:17,260
a

4650
01:09:17,260 --> 01:09:17,580
hash

4651
01:09:17,580 --> 01:09:17,880
ID

4652
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:18,260
of the

4653
01:09:18,260 --> 01:09:18,720
name

4654
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:19,340
is

4655
01:09:19,340 --> 01:09:19,500
a

4656
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:19,840
very

4657
01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:20,440
interesting

4658
01:09:20,440 --> 01:09:20,760
one

4659
01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:21,120
because I

4660
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:21,460
had not

4661
01:09:21,460 --> 01:09:21,740
linked

4662
01:09:21,740 --> 01:09:22,000
it to

4663
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:22,620
Bitcoin

4664
01:09:22,620 --> 01:09:23,200
that

4665
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:23,640
kind

4666
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:23,740
of

4667
01:09:23,740 --> 01:09:24,220
approach

4668
01:09:24,220 --> 01:09:24,460
and

4669
01:09:24,460 --> 01:09:24,840
scarcity

4670
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:25,960
that's

4671
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:26,240
a new

4672
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:26,500
idea

4673
01:09:26,500 --> 01:09:26,920
for me

4674
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:27,140
have

4675
01:09:27,140 --> 01:09:27,260
you

4676
01:09:27,260 --> 01:09:27,720
published

4677
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:27,980
that

4678
01:09:27,980 --> 01:09:28,460
idea

4679
01:09:28,460 --> 01:09:28,900
I

4680
01:09:28,900 --> 01:09:29,380
published

4681
01:09:29,380 --> 01:09:29,820
not

4682
01:09:29,820 --> 01:09:30,140
the link

4683
01:09:30,140 --> 01:09:30,720
to Bitcoin

4684
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:32,140
that

4685
01:09:32,140 --> 01:09:32,880
paper

4686
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:33,080
that

4687
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:33,360
came

4688
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:33,740
out

4689
01:09:33,740 --> 01:09:35,500
about

4690
01:09:35,500 --> 01:09:36,680
coupling

4691
01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:37,060
something

4692
01:09:37,060 --> 01:09:37,520
to Bitcoin

4693
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:38,140
was just

4694
01:09:38,140 --> 01:09:38,700
trying to

4695
01:09:38,700 --> 01:09:39,300
address

4696
01:09:39,300 --> 01:09:39,820
the DNS

4697
01:09:39,820 --> 01:09:40,280
issue

4698
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:41,840
but

4699
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:43,240
fortunately

4700
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:45,060
the guy

4701
01:09:45,060 --> 01:09:45,460
who did

4702
01:09:45,460 --> 01:09:46,360
it

4703
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,780
understood

4704
01:09:48,780 --> 01:09:49,300
that

4705
01:09:49,300 --> 01:09:51,240
why

4706
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:52,240
why

4707
01:09:52,240 --> 01:09:53,220
you know

4708
01:09:53,220 --> 01:09:53,720
why just

4709
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:53,980
have

4710
01:09:53,980 --> 01:09:54,720
quittettes

4711
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:54,980
you know

4712
01:09:54,980 --> 01:09:55,480
why limit

4713
01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:55,980
it to IP

4714
01:09:55,980 --> 01:09:56,380
addresses

4715
01:09:56,380 --> 01:09:57,760
was just

4716
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:58,000
sort of

4717
01:09:58,000 --> 01:09:58,320
natural

4718
01:09:58,320 --> 01:09:58,760
in the way

4719
01:09:58,760 --> 01:09:58,980
it

4720
01:09:58,980 --> 01:09:59,440
codes a

4721
01:09:59,440 --> 01:09:59,620
thing

4722
01:09:59,620 --> 01:09:59,920
to

4723
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:01,060
have

4724
01:10:01,060 --> 01:10:01,220
it

4725
01:10:01,220 --> 01:10:01,440
go

4726
01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:01,620
to

4727
01:10:01,620 --> 01:10:01,880
any

4728
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:02,200
sort

4729
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:02,400
of

4730
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:03,040
expansion

4731
01:10:03,040 --> 01:10:04,440
but

4732
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:04,720
the

4733
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:05,460
idea

4734
01:10:05,460 --> 01:10:06,060
for

4735
01:10:06,060 --> 01:10:10,160
there

4736
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:10,440
should

4737
01:10:10,440 --> 01:10:10,580
be

4738
01:10:10,580 --> 01:10:10,780
this

4739
01:10:10,780 --> 01:10:11,040
naming

4740
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:11,400
system

4741
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:11,560
the

4742
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:11,880
importance

4743
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:12,060
of

4744
01:10:12,060 --> 01:10:12,280
naming

4745
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:12,600
system

4746
01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:12,760
the

4747
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:13,000
importance

4748
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:13,140
of

4749
01:10:13,140 --> 01:10:13,460
preserving

4750
01:10:13,460 --> 01:10:13,860
history

4751
01:10:13,860 --> 01:10:14,160
and

4752
01:10:14,160 --> 01:10:14,600
doing

4753
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:14,780
these

4754
01:10:14,780 --> 01:10:15,300
scaffolds

4755
01:10:15,300 --> 01:10:15,560
and

4756
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:15,840
that

4757
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:16,500
thing

4758
01:10:16,500 --> 01:10:17,900
yeah

4759
01:10:17,900 --> 01:10:18,120
so

4760
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:18,720
that's

4761
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:18,960
on the

4762
01:10:18,960 --> 01:10:19,300
site

4763
01:10:19,300 --> 01:10:19,740
under

4764
01:10:19,740 --> 01:10:20,660
the

4765
01:10:20,660 --> 01:10:20,940
hands

4766
01:10:20,940 --> 01:10:21,240
I think

4767
01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:21,360
it's

4768
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:21,580
part

4769
01:10:21,580 --> 01:10:21,860
one

4770
01:10:21,860 --> 01:10:21,980
of

4771
01:10:21,980 --> 01:10:22,100
the

4772
01:10:22,100 --> 01:10:22,320
hands

4773
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:22,640
work

4774
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:23,040
interview

4775
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:24,200
I

4776
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:24,440
think

4777
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:26,100
we

4778
01:10:26,100 --> 01:10:26,300
should

4779
01:10:26,300 --> 01:10:26,620
study

4780
01:10:26,620 --> 01:10:27,020
this

4781
01:10:27,020 --> 01:10:27,660
quite

4782
01:10:27,660 --> 01:10:27,740
a

4783
01:10:27,740 --> 01:10:27,940
bit

4784
01:10:27,940 --> 01:10:32,200
the

4785
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:33,100
other

4786
01:10:33,100 --> 01:10:33,400
comment

4787
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:33,520
I

4788
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:33,640
would

4789
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:33,840
make

4790
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:34,700
on

4791
01:10:34,700 --> 01:10:34,880
the

4792
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:35,200
assumption

4793
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:35,800
that

4794
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:36,060
you're

4795
01:10:36,060 --> 01:10:36,220
just

4796
01:10:36,220 --> 01:10:37,500
trying to

4797
01:10:37,500 --> 01:10:37,660
do

4798
01:10:37,660 --> 01:10:37,860
what

4799
01:10:37,860 --> 01:10:38,200
happens

4800
01:10:38,200 --> 01:10:39,300
it's

4801
01:10:39,300 --> 01:10:39,880
probable

4802
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:40,400
that

4803
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:41,900
it's

4804
01:10:41,900 --> 01:10:42,080
that

4805
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:42,500
you're

4806
01:10:42,500 --> 01:10:42,660
just

4807
01:10:42,660 --> 01:10:43,080
trying to

4808
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:43,500
I've

4809
01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:43,820
had these

4810
01:10:43,820 --> 01:10:44,200
ideas

4811
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:45,740
several years

4812
01:10:45,740 --> 01:10:46,180
but now

4813
01:10:46,180 --> 01:10:46,580
I see

4814
01:10:46,580 --> 01:10:47,340
that other

4815
01:10:47,340 --> 01:10:47,700
people

4816
01:10:47,700 --> 01:10:48,060
are also

4817
01:10:48,060 --> 01:10:48,340
getting

4818
01:10:48,340 --> 01:10:49,480
there's

4819
01:10:49,480 --> 01:10:49,860
enough

4820
01:10:49,860 --> 01:10:50,560
people

4821
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:51,300
who are

4822
01:10:51,300 --> 01:10:51,600
interested

4823
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:52,100
in solving

4824
01:10:52,100 --> 01:10:52,520
the problem

4825
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:53,200
and solve

4826
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:53,500
it

4827
01:10:53,500 --> 01:10:54,120
the

4828
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:54,360
internet

4829
01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:54,720
you

4830
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:54,880
tend

4831
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:55,000
to

4832
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:55,040
see

4833
01:10:55,040 --> 01:10:55,160
a lot

4834
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:55,260
of

4835
01:10:55,260 --> 01:10:55,580
experience

4836
01:10:55,580 --> 01:10:55,940
but what

4837
01:10:55,940 --> 01:10:56,120
I try

4838
01:10:56,120 --> 01:10:56,200
to

4839
01:10:56,200 --> 01:10:56,300
see

4840
01:10:56,300 --> 01:10:56,380
is

4841
01:10:56,380 --> 01:10:56,540
how

4842
01:10:56,540 --> 01:10:56,720
would

4843
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:56,960
I

4844
01:10:56,960 --> 01:10:57,440
attack

4845
01:10:57,440 --> 01:10:57,680
it

4846
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,340
and I

4847
01:11:00,340 --> 01:11:00,620
still

4848
01:11:00,620 --> 01:11:00,880
think

4849
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:01,000
I

4850
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:01,140
would

4851
01:11:01,140 --> 01:11:01,300
go

4852
01:11:01,300 --> 01:11:01,660
after

4853
01:11:01,660 --> 01:11:02,000
the

4854
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:02,580
signing

4855
01:11:02,580 --> 01:11:03,080
and

4856
01:11:03,080 --> 01:11:03,540
the

4857
01:11:03,540 --> 01:11:03,900
key

4858
01:11:03,900 --> 01:11:04,420
infrastructure

4859
01:11:04,420 --> 01:11:05,340
there's

4860
01:11:05,340 --> 01:11:05,540
different

4861
01:11:05,540 --> 01:11:05,760
parts

4862
01:11:05,760 --> 01:11:07,900
of

4863
01:11:07,900 --> 01:11:08,420
the

4864
01:11:08,420 --> 01:11:08,700
idea

4865
01:11:08,700 --> 01:11:09,040
so

4866
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:14,360
when

4867
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:14,500
you

4868
01:11:14,500 --> 01:11:15,200
if you

4869
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:15,500
publish

4870
01:11:15,500 --> 01:11:15,720
some

4871
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:16,320
information

4872
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:17,740
if you

4873
01:11:17,740 --> 01:11:18,020
spread

4874
01:11:18,020 --> 01:11:18,200
some

4875
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:18,720
information

4876
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:19,200
this

4877
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:19,480
publish

4878
01:11:19,480 --> 01:11:19,640
will

4879
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:19,840
be

4880
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:20,440
just

4881
01:11:20,440 --> 01:11:20,980
whether

4882
01:11:20,980 --> 01:11:21,640
when

4883
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:21,920
something

4884
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:22,260
is called

4885
01:11:22,260 --> 01:11:22,660
not

4886
01:11:22,660 --> 01:11:23,120
being published

4887
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:23,680
published

4888
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:23,880
this

4889
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:24,140
way

4890
01:11:24,140 --> 01:11:25,300
interesting

4891
01:11:25,300 --> 01:11:27,540
so

4892
01:11:27,540 --> 01:11:27,700
if you

4893
01:11:27,700 --> 01:11:27,920
spread

4894
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:28,100
some

4895
01:11:28,100 --> 01:11:28,580
information

4896
01:11:28,580 --> 01:11:29,360
well

4897
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:29,760
labeled

4898
01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:31,660
using

4899
01:11:31,660 --> 01:11:31,820
a

4900
01:11:31,820 --> 01:11:32,220
hash

4901
01:11:32,220 --> 01:11:43,860
that

4902
01:11:43,860 --> 01:11:44,140
that

4903
01:11:44,140 --> 01:11:44,480
hash

4904
01:11:44,480 --> 01:11:44,740
is

4905
01:11:44,740 --> 01:11:45,240
important

4906
01:11:45,240 --> 01:11:46,380
is

4907
01:11:46,380 --> 01:11:46,660
something

4908
01:11:46,660 --> 01:11:46,820
that

4909
01:11:46,820 --> 01:11:46,940
has

4910
01:11:46,940 --> 01:11:47,060
to

4911
01:11:47,060 --> 01:11:47,240
spread

4912
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:47,380
in

4913
01:11:47,380 --> 01:11:47,600
another

4914
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:47,900
way

4915
01:11:47,900 --> 01:11:48,980
so

4916
01:11:48,980 --> 01:11:49,260
that

4917
01:11:49,260 --> 01:11:49,460
is

4918
01:11:49,460 --> 01:11:50,320
by

4919
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:51,160
wikilix

4920
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:52,080
signing

4921
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:52,320
the

4922
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:52,680
hash

4923
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,140
but

4924
01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:55,340
there's

4925
01:11:55,340 --> 01:11:55,560
many

4926
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:55,880
ways

4927
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:56,020
for

4928
01:11:56,020 --> 01:11:56,120
it

4929
01:11:56,120 --> 01:11:56,220
to

4930
01:11:56,220 --> 01:11:56,480
spread

4931
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:57,040
I

4932
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:57,160
mean

4933
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:57,460
people

4934
01:11:57,460 --> 01:11:57,660
could

4935
01:11:57,660 --> 01:11:57,840
be

4936
01:11:57,840 --> 01:11:58,240
swapping

4937
01:11:58,240 --> 01:11:58,460
that

4938
01:11:58,460 --> 01:11:58,720
hash

4939
01:11:58,720 --> 01:11:58,840
in

4940
01:11:58,840 --> 01:11:59,120
email

4941
01:11:59,120 --> 01:11:59,380
they

4942
01:11:59,380 --> 01:11:59,800
could

4943
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:00,120
be

4944
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:00,360
telling

4945
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:00,560
each

4946
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:00,680
other

4947
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:00,800
the

4948
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:01,140
telephone

4949
01:12:01,140 --> 01:12:01,500
etc

4950
01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:02,000
you

4951
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:02,120
you

4952
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:02,180
you

4953
01:12:02,180 --> 01:12:02,360
say

4954
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:02,700
all

4955
01:12:02,700 --> 01:12:02,800
of

4956
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:02,940
these

4957
01:12:02,940 --> 01:12:03,260
systems

4958
01:12:03,260 --> 01:12:03,460
do

4959
01:12:03,460 --> 01:12:04,100
not

4960
01:12:04,100 --> 01:12:04,260
have

4961
01:12:04,260 --> 01:12:04,380
a

4962
01:12:04,380 --> 01:12:04,640
single

4963
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:05,000
point

4964
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:05,120
of

4965
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:05,540
attack

4966
01:12:05,540 --> 01:12:06,140
I

4967
01:12:06,140 --> 01:12:06,300
can

4968
01:12:06,300 --> 01:12:06,740
break

4969
01:12:06,740 --> 01:12:06,940
down

4970
01:12:06,940 --> 01:12:07,160
your

4971
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:07,560
HTTP

4972
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:08,120
but

4973
01:12:08,120 --> 01:12:08,240
you

4974
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:08,360
could

4975
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:08,600
still

4976
01:12:08,600 --> 01:12:09,160
use

4977
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:09,340
the

4978
01:12:09,340 --> 01:12:09,540
US

4979
01:12:09,540 --> 01:12:09,880
postal

4980
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:10,240
service

4981
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:10,420
to

4982
01:12:10,420 --> 01:12:10,500
sell

4983
01:12:10,500 --> 01:12:10,800
exactly

4984
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:11,940
and you

4985
01:12:11,940 --> 01:12:12,520
would know

4986
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:12,760
that you

4987
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:13,000
would get

4988
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:13,400
the right

4989
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:13,660
thing

4990
01:12:13,660 --> 01:12:13,940
because

4991
01:12:13,940 --> 01:12:14,280
of this

4992
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:14,640
naming

4993
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:15,320
is

4994
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:16,080
completely

4995
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:16,500
accurate

4996
01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:20,220
well I'm

4997
01:12:20,220 --> 01:12:20,380
just

4998
01:12:20,380 --> 01:12:21,080
wondering

4999
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:24,140
on the

5000
01:12:24,140 --> 01:12:24,400
human

5001
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:24,740
side

5002
01:12:24,740 --> 01:12:24,900
of

5003
01:12:24,900 --> 01:12:25,160
this

5004
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:25,680
I mean

5005
01:12:25,680 --> 01:12:25,960
you

5006
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:26,980
have

5007
01:12:26,980 --> 01:12:27,400
such

5008
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:28,180
experience

5009
01:12:28,180 --> 01:12:28,660
of

5010
01:12:28,660 --> 01:12:30,520
earlier

5011
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:31,740
I've only

5012
01:12:31,740 --> 01:12:32,080
had three

5013
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:32,500
hours of

5014
01:12:32,500 --> 01:12:32,720
sleep

5015
01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:32,960
so

5016
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:34,180
if I

5017
01:12:34,180 --> 01:12:34,420
don't

5018
01:12:34,420 --> 01:12:34,940
remember

5019
01:12:34,940 --> 01:12:35,440
exactly

5020
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:35,720
what you

5021
01:12:35,720 --> 01:12:35,900
said

5022
01:12:35,900 --> 01:12:36,320
but

5023
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:36,960
the

5024
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:37,500
combination

5025
01:12:37,500 --> 01:12:38,520
of

5026
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,060
technical

5027
01:12:41,060 --> 01:12:42,840
and

5028
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:43,380
you know

5029
01:12:43,380 --> 01:12:44,220
altruistic

5030
01:12:44,220 --> 01:12:44,980
people

5031
01:12:44,980 --> 01:12:45,280
I mean

5032
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:45,780
what amounts

5033
01:12:45,780 --> 01:12:46,020
to a

5034
01:12:46,020 --> 01:12:46,320
kind of

5035
01:12:46,320 --> 01:12:47,020
subculture

5036
01:12:47,020 --> 01:12:48,060
that you've

5037
01:12:48,060 --> 01:12:48,480
been involved

5038
01:12:48,480 --> 01:12:48,660
in

5039
01:12:48,660 --> 01:12:51,020
so

5040
01:12:51,020 --> 01:12:53,540
you know

5041
01:12:53,540 --> 01:12:53,860
how that

5042
01:12:53,860 --> 01:12:54,280
subculture

5043
01:12:54,280 --> 01:12:54,800
works

5044
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:55,640
and

5045
01:12:55,640 --> 01:12:56,140
that

5046
01:12:56,140 --> 01:12:56,660
subculture

5047
01:12:56,660 --> 01:12:57,240
needs to

5048
01:12:57,240 --> 01:12:57,520
either

5049
01:12:57,520 --> 01:12:57,980
sort of

5050
01:12:57,980 --> 01:12:58,340
I guess

5051
01:12:58,340 --> 01:12:59,060
stay the same

5052
01:12:59,060 --> 01:12:59,780
or expand

5053
01:12:59,780 --> 01:13:00,200
in order

5054
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:00,620
to do

5055
01:13:00,620 --> 01:13:01,020
the work

5056
01:13:01,020 --> 01:13:01,480
that you're

5057
01:13:01,480 --> 01:13:02,160
describing

5058
01:13:02,160 --> 01:13:02,720
and so

5059
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:03,140
since our

5060
01:13:03,140 --> 01:13:03,560
book is

5061
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:03,900
about

5062
01:13:03,900 --> 01:13:05,280
years away

5063
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:06,020
it's dramatically

5064
01:13:06,020 --> 01:13:06,620
expanding

5065
01:13:06,620 --> 01:13:06,960
what happens

5066
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:07,620
there in terms

5067
01:13:07,620 --> 01:13:08,240
of the

5068
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:08,960
people part

5069
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:09,340
rather

5070
01:13:09,340 --> 01:13:10,120
so

5071
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:10,620
that's

5072
01:13:10,620 --> 01:13:12,940
I mean

5073
01:13:12,940 --> 01:13:13,180
that's

5074
01:13:13,180 --> 01:13:15,280
the most

5075
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:15,640
optimistic

5076
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:16,180
thing that

5077
01:13:16,180 --> 01:13:16,580
is happening

5078
01:13:16,580 --> 01:13:18,240
is the

5079
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:20,240
radicalization

5080
01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:20,860
of

5081
01:13:20,860 --> 01:13:21,680
internet

5082
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:22,440
educated

5083
01:13:22,440 --> 01:13:23,560
youth

5084
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:24,620
so

5085
01:13:24,620 --> 01:13:25,500
people

5086
01:13:25,500 --> 01:13:26,200
who are

5087
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:26,980
receiving

5088
01:13:26,980 --> 01:13:27,840
their values

5089
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:28,160
from the

5090
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:28,460
internet

5091
01:13:28,460 --> 01:13:30,240
and

5092
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:31,980
giving them

5093
01:13:31,980 --> 01:13:32,120
back

5094
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:32,500
and then

5095
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:33,560
as they

5096
01:13:33,560 --> 01:13:34,060
find them

5097
01:13:34,060 --> 01:13:34,280
to be

5098
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:34,660
compatible

5099
01:13:34,660 --> 01:13:35,420
echoing

5100
01:13:35,420 --> 01:13:35,880
them back

5101
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,220
the echo

5102
01:13:38,220 --> 01:13:38,640
back

5103
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:39,260
is now

5104
01:13:39,260 --> 01:13:40,180
so strong

5105
01:13:40,180 --> 01:13:42,040
that it

5106
01:13:42,040 --> 01:13:44,340
drowns

5107
01:13:44,340 --> 01:13:44,780
the original

5108
01:13:44,780 --> 01:13:45,420
statements

5109
01:13:45,420 --> 01:13:47,720
completely

5110
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:50,220
so

5111
01:13:50,220 --> 01:13:50,980
there's

5112
01:13:50,980 --> 01:13:51,440
I mean

5113
01:13:51,440 --> 01:13:51,840
the people

5114
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:52,240
that I've

5115
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:52,580
dealt with

5116
01:13:52,580 --> 01:13:53,100
from the

5117
01:13:53,100 --> 01:13:54,460
1960s

5118
01:13:54,460 --> 01:13:55,540
radicals

5119
01:13:55,540 --> 01:13:56,360
helped

5120
01:13:56,360 --> 01:13:56,760
liberate

5121
01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:57,120
Greece

5122
01:13:57,120 --> 01:13:57,480
and these

5123
01:13:57,480 --> 01:13:57,740
sorts of

5124
01:13:57,740 --> 01:13:58,020
things

5125
01:13:58,020 --> 01:13:58,800
dealt with

5126
01:13:58,800 --> 01:13:59,140
Salazar

5127
01:13:59,140 --> 01:14:01,460
they are

5128
01:14:01,460 --> 01:14:01,680
saying

5129
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:02,300
there is

5130
01:14:02,300 --> 01:14:02,680
nothing

5131
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:04,820
at this

5132
01:14:04,820 --> 01:14:05,160
moment

5133
01:14:05,160 --> 01:14:05,780
in time

5134
01:14:05,780 --> 01:14:09,360
most

5135
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:09,680
similar

5136
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:10,020
to what

5137
01:14:10,020 --> 01:14:10,300
happened

5138
01:14:10,300 --> 01:14:10,860
in this

5139
01:14:10,860 --> 01:14:11,600
period

5140
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:12,060
these

5141
01:14:12,060 --> 01:14:12,440
liberation

5142
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:12,900
movements

5143
01:14:12,900 --> 01:14:13,120
in the

5144
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:13,820
1960s

5145
01:14:13,820 --> 01:14:14,460
that they

5146
01:14:14,460 --> 01:14:15,020
have seen

5147
01:14:15,020 --> 01:14:18,380
and as far

5148
01:14:18,380 --> 01:14:18,760
as what

5149
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,000
has entered

5150
01:14:20,000 --> 01:14:20,500
into the

5151
01:14:20,500 --> 01:14:20,780
west

5152
01:14:20,780 --> 01:14:21,100
because

5153
01:14:21,100 --> 01:14:21,320
there's

5154
01:14:21,320 --> 01:14:21,560
certain

5155
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:21,920
regions

5156
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:22,200
of all

5157
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:22,360
I'm

5158
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:22,660
unaware

5159
01:14:22,660 --> 01:14:22,920
of

5160
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:23,120
but

5161
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:23,860
as far

5162
01:14:23,860 --> 01:14:25,620
as I'm

5163
01:14:25,620 --> 01:14:26,020
aware

5164
01:14:26,020 --> 01:14:27,180
of course

5165
01:14:27,180 --> 01:14:27,440
I wasn't

5166
01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:27,700
alive

5167
01:14:27,700 --> 01:14:27,840
in the

5168
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:28,300
1960s

5169
01:14:28,300 --> 01:14:28,480
but

5170
01:14:28,480 --> 01:14:29,000
as far

5171
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:29,220
as I

5172
01:14:29,220 --> 01:14:29,680
can tell

5173
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:30,320
that

5174
01:14:30,320 --> 01:14:30,720
statement

5175
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:31,260
is true

5176
01:14:31,260 --> 01:14:32,600
that

5177
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:33,080
actually

5178
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:34,320
this is

5179
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:35,800
political

5180
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:36,520
education

5181
01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:37,880
of

5182
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:38,920
apolitical

5183
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:41,500
technical

5184
01:14:41,500 --> 01:14:41,980
people

5185
01:14:41,980 --> 01:14:44,800
is

5186
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:45,640
extraordinary

5187
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:46,020
in the

5188
01:14:46,020 --> 01:14:46,220
same

5189
01:14:46,220 --> 01:14:46,460
way

5190
01:14:46,460 --> 01:14:46,740
that

5191
01:14:46,740 --> 01:14:49,120
the

5192
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:49,360
young

5193
01:14:49,360 --> 01:14:51,400
people

5194
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:52,400
are

5195
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:52,600
going

5196
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:52,880
from

5197
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:53,840
young

5198
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:54,300
people

5199
01:14:54,300 --> 01:14:55,580
who

5200
01:14:55,580 --> 01:14:56,580
are

5201
01:14:56,580 --> 01:14:56,800
going

5202
01:14:56,800 --> 01:14:58,040
apolitical

5203
01:14:58,040 --> 01:14:58,240
to

5204
01:14:58,240 --> 01:14:58,580
political

5205
01:14:58,580 --> 01:14:59,620
it's

5206
01:14:59,620 --> 01:14:59,900
a very

5207
01:14:59,900 --> 01:15:00,260
very

5208
01:15:00,260 --> 01:15:00,700
interesting

5209
01:15:00,700 --> 01:15:01,240
transition

5210
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:02,600
to see

5211
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:03,120
and

5212
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:03,500
what do you

5213
01:15:03,500 --> 01:15:03,700
think

5214
01:15:03,700 --> 01:15:03,960
since

5215
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:05,480
this is

5216
01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:05,800
your

5217
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:06,480
world

5218
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:06,800
I mean

5219
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:07,120
how

5220
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:08,700
well

5221
01:15:08,700 --> 01:15:09,080
why do you

5222
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:09,220
think

5223
01:15:09,220 --> 01:15:09,560
that took

5224
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:10,020
place

5225
01:15:10,020 --> 01:15:10,800
I mean

5226
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:12,500
why do you

5227
01:15:12,500 --> 01:15:12,640
think

5228
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:12,880
it took

5229
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:13,260
place

5230
01:15:13,260 --> 01:15:15,780
class

5231
01:15:15,780 --> 01:15:16,480
communication

5232
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:17,440
critical

5233
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:17,760
mass

5234
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:18,060
of young

5235
01:15:18,060 --> 01:15:18,540
people

5236
01:15:18,540 --> 01:15:19,380
newer

5237
01:15:19,380 --> 01:15:19,980
generation

5238
01:15:19,980 --> 01:15:24,900
and

5239
01:15:24,900 --> 01:15:25,200
then

5240
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:25,760
some

5241
01:15:25,760 --> 01:15:27,560
catalyzing

5242
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:28,040
events

5243
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:30,020
so

5244
01:15:30,020 --> 01:15:30,500
the

5245
01:15:30,500 --> 01:15:30,740
attack

5246
01:15:30,740 --> 01:15:31,060
on us

5247
01:15:31,060 --> 01:15:31,300
was a

5248
01:15:31,300 --> 01:15:31,760
catalyzing

5249
01:15:31,760 --> 01:15:32,120
event

5250
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:34,380
and

5251
01:15:34,380 --> 01:15:34,560
our

5252
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:34,980
defense

5253
01:15:34,980 --> 01:15:35,220
was

5254
01:15:35,220 --> 01:15:35,760
and

5255
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:36,140
our

5256
01:15:36,140 --> 01:15:36,660
success

5257
01:15:36,660 --> 01:15:36,960
in

5258
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:37,380
defending

5259
01:15:37,380 --> 01:15:38,020
was a

5260
01:15:38,020 --> 01:15:38,440
catalyzing

5261
01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:38,700
event

5262
01:15:38,700 --> 01:15:39,640
I don't

5263
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:39,840
know

5264
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:40,380
do you

5265
01:15:40,380 --> 01:15:40,600
remember

5266
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:40,860
the

5267
01:15:40,860 --> 01:15:41,440
PGP

5268
01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:42,260
case

5269
01:15:42,260 --> 01:15:42,500
and that

5270
01:15:42,500 --> 01:15:43,020
grand jury

5271
01:15:43,020 --> 01:15:43,660
Zimmer

5272
01:15:43,660 --> 01:15:43,940
and so

5273
01:15:43,940 --> 01:15:44,540
on

5274
01:15:44,540 --> 01:15:44,860
so

5275
01:15:44,860 --> 01:15:45,380
I

5276
01:15:45,380 --> 01:15:48,880
actually

5277
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:49,160
read

5278
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:50,060
I wrote

5279
01:15:50,060 --> 01:15:50,860
half a

5280
01:15:50,860 --> 01:15:51,140
book on

5281
01:15:51,140 --> 01:15:51,360
that

5282
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:52,060
it was

5283
01:15:52,060 --> 01:15:52,240
never

5284
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:52,640
published

5285
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:52,880
because

5286
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:53,440
my

5287
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:53,880
co-writer

5288
01:15:53,880 --> 01:15:54,900
had

5289
01:15:54,900 --> 01:15:55,220
children

5290
01:15:55,220 --> 01:16:02,080
why do I

5291
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:02,380
feel like

5292
01:16:02,380 --> 01:16:02,580
that's

5293
01:16:02,580 --> 01:16:02,820
happening

5294
01:16:02,820 --> 01:16:03,440
that was

5295
01:16:03,440 --> 01:16:04,200
really funny

5296
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:06,100
so much

5297
01:16:06,100 --> 01:16:07,040
for the

5298
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:07,380
extra

5299
01:16:07,380 --> 01:16:08,400
saving

5300
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:08,940
Jared

5301
01:16:08,940 --> 01:16:10,400
right

5302
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:10,840
over

5303
01:16:10,840 --> 01:16:11,260
there

5304
01:16:11,260 --> 01:16:11,540
as I

5305
01:16:11,540 --> 01:16:11,740
said

5306
01:16:11,740 --> 01:16:12,080
multiple

5307
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:12,520
copies

5308
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:14,760
exactly

5309
01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:17,180
thank you

5310
01:16:17,180 --> 01:16:18,320
I'm tired

5311
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:18,680
of typing

5312
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:19,120
anyway

5313
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:20,380
how did you

5314
01:16:20,380 --> 01:16:20,880
save

5315
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:21,180
whatever

5316
01:16:21,180 --> 01:16:21,540
you were

5317
01:16:21,540 --> 01:16:21,780
getting

5318
01:16:21,780 --> 01:16:23,280
into the

5319
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:23,520
name

5320
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:23,880
tree

5321
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:25,820
everything

5322
01:16:25,820 --> 01:16:26,100
does

5323
01:16:26,100 --> 01:16:29,520
you see how

5324
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:29,960
fast he

5325
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:30,140
moves

5326
01:16:30,140 --> 01:16:30,320
I was

5327
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:30,460
like

5328
01:16:30,460 --> 01:16:30,720
him

5329
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:31,280
I know

5330
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:32,500
I almost

5331
01:16:32,500 --> 01:16:33,660
if you were

5332
01:16:33,660 --> 01:16:34,220
there before

5333
01:16:34,220 --> 01:16:34,800
the computer

5334
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:35,160
you could

5335
01:16:35,160 --> 01:16:35,440
y'all

5336
01:16:35,440 --> 01:16:35,600
want

5337
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:35,740
our

5338
01:16:35,740 --> 01:16:37,140
computers

5339
01:16:37,140 --> 01:16:37,740
are

5340
01:16:37,740 --> 01:16:38,100
important

5341
01:16:38,100 --> 01:16:40,900
thank you

5342
01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:43,860
so you're

5343
01:16:43,860 --> 01:16:44,860
saying

5344
01:16:44,860 --> 01:16:47,820
but young

5345
01:16:47,820 --> 01:16:48,440
people aren't

5346
01:16:48,440 --> 01:16:49,160
inherently

5347
01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:49,600
good

5348
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:50,340
and I

5349
01:16:50,340 --> 01:16:50,620
say that

5350
01:16:50,620 --> 01:16:50,860
as a

5351
01:16:50,860 --> 01:16:51,120
father

5352
01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:51,460
and mother

5353
01:16:51,460 --> 01:16:51,760
regret

5354
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:57,840
oh no

5355
01:16:57,840 --> 01:16:58,660
I think

5356
01:16:58,660 --> 01:16:59,520
that actually

5357
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:01,060
well I've

5358
01:17:01,060 --> 01:17:01,360
seen the

5359
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:01,680
water the

5360
01:17:01,680 --> 01:17:01,880
fly

5361
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:02,140
I went

5362
01:17:02,140 --> 01:17:02,440
instead of

5363
01:17:02,440 --> 01:17:02,960
in schools

5364
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:03,480
so I've

5365
01:17:03,480 --> 01:17:03,920
seen plenty

5366
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:04,320
water the

5367
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:04,540
fly

5368
01:17:04,540 --> 01:17:05,120
situations

5369
01:17:05,120 --> 01:17:05,480
but

5370
01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:07,760
no I

5371
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:08,060
think

5372
01:17:08,060 --> 01:17:09,400
I think

5373
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:10,720
that the

5374
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:11,440
instincts

5375
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:12,260
human beings

5376
01:17:12,260 --> 01:17:12,780
have

5377
01:17:12,780 --> 01:17:13,840
are actually

5378
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:14,760
much better

5379
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:15,660
than the

5380
01:17:15,660 --> 01:17:16,240
societies

5381
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:16,760
that we

5382
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:17,040
have

5383
01:17:17,040 --> 01:17:20,500
I'm not

5384
01:17:20,500 --> 01:17:20,640
going to

5385
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:20,900
say the

5386
01:17:20,900 --> 01:17:21,100
government

5387
01:17:21,100 --> 01:17:21,700
actually

5388
01:17:21,700 --> 01:17:22,580
the whole

5389
01:17:22,580 --> 01:17:22,920
structure

5390
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:23,120
of the

5391
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:23,540
society

5392
01:17:23,540 --> 01:17:24,520
the

5393
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:24,800
economic

5394
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:25,280
structure

5395
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:28,500
and that

5396
01:17:28,500 --> 01:17:29,920
people

5397
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:30,840
learn

5398
01:17:30,840 --> 01:17:31,340
that

5399
01:17:31,340 --> 01:17:31,880
actually

5400
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:33,060
simple

5401
01:17:33,060 --> 01:17:33,700
altruistic

5402
01:17:33,700 --> 01:17:34,040
acts

5403
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:34,560
don't pay

5404
01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:34,920
off

5405
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:35,540
and

5406
01:17:35,540 --> 01:17:37,920
they

5407
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:38,880
see

5408
01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:39,260
that

5409
01:17:39,260 --> 01:17:39,940
some

5410
01:17:39,940 --> 01:17:40,340
people

5411
01:17:40,340 --> 01:17:40,620
who

5412
01:17:40,620 --> 01:17:41,020
are

5413
01:17:41,020 --> 01:17:43,400
acting

5414
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:44,080
non-altruistic

5415
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:44,600
ways

5416
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:46,160
end up

5417
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:46,420
getting

5418
01:17:46,420 --> 01:17:46,800
portions

5419
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:47,220
on fast

5420
01:17:47,220 --> 01:17:47,560
cars

5421
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:48,200
and it

5422
01:17:48,200 --> 01:17:49,540
tends

5423
01:17:49,540 --> 01:17:49,940
to pull

5424
01:17:49,940 --> 01:17:50,280
people

5425
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:50,540
in that

5426
01:17:50,540 --> 01:17:50,940
direction

5427
01:17:50,940 --> 01:17:53,880
I

5428
01:17:53,880 --> 01:17:56,040
thought about

5429
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:56,260
this a

5430
01:17:56,260 --> 01:17:56,580
while ago

5431
01:17:56,580 --> 01:17:56,840
when I

5432
01:17:56,840 --> 01:17:57,240
saw

5433
01:17:57,240 --> 01:17:57,700
this

5434
01:17:57,700 --> 01:17:58,560
fantastic

5435
01:17:58,560 --> 01:17:59,240
video

5436
01:17:59,240 --> 01:17:59,680
that came

5437
01:17:59,680 --> 01:17:59,940
out of

5438
01:17:59,940 --> 01:18:00,340
Stanford

5439
01:18:00,340 --> 01:18:00,740
in

5440
01:18:00,740 --> 01:18:01,800
about

5441
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:02,260
69

5442
01:18:02,260 --> 01:18:03,540
of

5443
01:18:03,540 --> 01:18:04,640
nucleosynthesis

5444
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:05,320
of DNA

5445
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:06,080
have you

5446
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:06,580
seen it

5447
01:18:06,580 --> 01:18:08,600
it's

5448
01:18:08,600 --> 01:18:09,540
on YouTube

5449
01:18:09,540 --> 01:18:09,940
great

5450
01:18:09,940 --> 01:18:11,020
wonderful

5451
01:18:11,020 --> 01:18:11,460
thing

5452
01:18:11,460 --> 01:18:12,880
so it's

5453
01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:13,220
a

5454
01:18:13,220 --> 01:18:14,860
explaining

5455
01:18:14,860 --> 01:18:17,120
nucleosynthesis

5456
01:18:17,120 --> 01:18:18,920
through

5457
01:18:18,920 --> 01:18:19,400
interpretive

5458
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:19,860
dance

5459
01:18:19,860 --> 01:18:21,440
and

5460
01:18:21,440 --> 01:18:22,260
so

5461
01:18:22,260 --> 01:18:23,420
there's

5462
01:18:23,420 --> 01:18:23,680
like

5463
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:24,820
130

5464
01:18:24,820 --> 01:18:25,760
Stanford

5465
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:26,600
students

5466
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:27,280
out there

5467
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:28,980
pretending

5468
01:18:28,980 --> 01:18:29,280
to be

5469
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:29,620
DNA

5470
01:18:29,620 --> 01:18:29,880
and

5471
01:18:29,880 --> 01:18:31,040
a whole

5472
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:31,200
bunch

5473
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:31,560
pretending

5474
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:31,940
to be

5475
01:18:31,940 --> 01:18:32,180
a

5476
01:18:32,180 --> 01:18:33,000
ribosonal

5477
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:33,660
subunit

5478
01:18:33,660 --> 01:18:36,160
and all

5479
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:36,540
wearing

5480
01:18:36,540 --> 01:18:37,840
hippie

5481
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:38,140
clothes

5482
01:18:38,140 --> 01:18:38,360
of the

5483
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:38,660
day

5484
01:18:38,660 --> 01:18:40,100
but they're

5485
01:18:40,100 --> 01:18:40,220
all

5486
01:18:40,220 --> 01:18:40,440
actually

5487
01:18:40,440 --> 01:18:40,620
very

5488
01:18:40,620 --> 01:18:40,800
white

5489
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:41,080
people

5490
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:41,960
so

5491
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:43,800
and I

5492
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:44,080
looked at

5493
01:18:44,080 --> 01:18:44,340
that

5494
01:18:44,340 --> 01:18:44,820
and thought

5495
01:18:44,820 --> 01:18:45,500
could

5496
01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:45,900
Stanford

5497
01:18:45,900 --> 01:18:46,720
and it

5498
01:18:46,720 --> 01:18:46,980
was

5499
01:18:46,980 --> 01:18:47,700
it was a

5500
01:18:47,700 --> 01:18:48,160
very big

5501
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:48,860
very good

5502
01:18:48,860 --> 01:18:49,080
bit of

5503
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:49,580
education

5504
01:18:49,580 --> 01:18:51,020
so it's

5505
01:18:51,020 --> 01:18:51,440
not that it

5506
01:18:51,440 --> 01:18:51,840
was cool

5507
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:52,360
and unusual

5508
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:53,000
rather it

5509
01:18:53,000 --> 01:18:53,400
was actually

5510
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:54,120
extremely

5511
01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:54,840
instructive

5512
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:55,540
and before

5513
01:18:55,540 --> 01:18:55,940
computer

5514
01:18:55,940 --> 01:18:56,400
animation

5515
01:18:56,400 --> 01:18:56,900
actually

5516
01:18:56,900 --> 01:18:57,880
was the

5517
01:18:57,880 --> 01:18:58,100
best

5518
01:18:58,100 --> 01:18:58,640
representation

5519
01:18:58,640 --> 01:18:59,420
of how

5520
01:18:59,420 --> 01:18:59,900
a

5521
01:18:59,900 --> 01:19:00,380
ribosonal

5522
01:19:00,380 --> 01:19:00,700
unit

5523
01:19:00,700 --> 01:19:01,320
behaves

5524
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:03,780
could you

5525
01:19:03,780 --> 01:19:04,300
see Stanford

5526
01:19:04,300 --> 01:19:04,800
doing that

5527
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:05,140
now

5528
01:19:05,140 --> 01:19:05,760
absolutely

5529
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:06,340
impossible

5530
01:19:06,340 --> 01:19:08,200
it is

5531
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:09,120
far too

5532
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:09,620
conservative

5533
01:19:09,620 --> 01:19:11,040
for it to

5534
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:11,300
do that

5535
01:19:11,300 --> 01:19:11,480
now

5536
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:11,940
even though

5537
01:19:11,940 --> 01:19:12,220
that was

5538
01:19:12,220 --> 01:19:12,940
an extremely

5539
01:19:12,940 --> 01:19:13,380
effective

5540
01:19:13,380 --> 01:19:13,740
bit of

5541
01:19:13,740 --> 01:19:14,380
education

5542
01:19:14,380 --> 01:19:14,760
you can

5543
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:15,360
bet

5544
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:15,740
everyone

5545
01:19:15,740 --> 01:19:16,120
who was

5546
01:19:16,120 --> 01:19:16,580
in that

5547
01:19:16,580 --> 01:19:18,200
dance

5548
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:19,200
remembers

5549
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:19,760
exactly

5550
01:19:19,760 --> 01:19:20,780
how

5551
01:19:20,780 --> 01:19:21,440
nuclear

5552
01:19:21,440 --> 01:19:21,840
synthesis

5553
01:19:21,840 --> 01:19:22,360
occurs

5554
01:19:22,360 --> 01:19:22,740
because they

5555
01:19:22,740 --> 01:19:22,960
all had

5556
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:23,180
to remember

5557
01:19:23,180 --> 01:19:23,600
their parts

5558
01:19:23,600 --> 01:19:25,440
and I

5559
01:19:25,440 --> 01:19:25,900
remember it

5560
01:19:25,900 --> 01:19:26,420
having seen

5561
01:19:26,420 --> 01:19:27,240
it

5562
01:19:27,240 --> 01:19:29,860
rather

5563
01:19:29,860 --> 01:19:30,740
that

5564
01:19:30,740 --> 01:19:32,560
period

5565
01:19:32,560 --> 01:19:33,220
of peak

5566
01:19:33,220 --> 01:19:35,580
earnings

5567
01:19:35,580 --> 01:19:36,640
for average

5568
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:37,040
wage

5569
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:37,460
in the United

5570
01:19:37,460 --> 01:19:37,740
States

5571
01:19:37,740 --> 01:19:38,180
was what

5572
01:19:38,180 --> 01:19:39,020
77

5573
01:19:39,020 --> 01:19:41,140
that certain

5574
01:19:41,140 --> 01:19:41,920
things simply

5575
01:19:41,920 --> 01:19:42,400
happened

5576
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:43,200
that those

5577
01:19:43,200 --> 01:19:44,260
people who

5578
01:19:44,260 --> 01:19:46,840
were altruistic

5579
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:47,480
and not too

5580
01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:48,360
concerned about

5581
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:49,060
finances

5582
01:19:49,060 --> 01:19:49,540
and fiscal

5583
01:19:49,540 --> 01:19:50,080
ization

5584
01:19:50,080 --> 01:19:52,900
simply lost

5585
01:19:52,900 --> 01:19:53,460
power

5586
01:19:53,460 --> 01:19:55,000
relative to

5587
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:55,600
those people

5588
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:56,020
who were more

5589
01:19:56,020 --> 01:19:56,540
concerned about

5590
01:19:56,540 --> 01:19:57,180
finances and

5591
01:19:57,180 --> 01:19:57,840
fiscalization

5592
01:19:57,840 --> 01:19:58,680
and worked

5593
01:19:58,680 --> 01:19:59,160
their way up

5594
01:19:59,160 --> 01:19:59,640
in the system

5595
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,300
so certain

5596
01:20:02,300 --> 01:20:03,280
behaviors were

5597
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:05,140
disincentivized

5598
01:20:05,140 --> 01:20:05,660
and others were

5599
01:20:05,660 --> 01:20:06,360
potentiated

5600
01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:08,460
and that is

5601
01:20:08,460 --> 01:20:08,680
primarily

5602
01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,920
I believe

5603
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:12,600
as a result

5604
01:20:12,600 --> 01:20:13,120
of

5605
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:15,580
technology

5606
01:20:15,580 --> 01:20:15,980
technology that

5607
01:20:15,980 --> 01:20:16,680
enables

5608
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:17,940
fiscalization

5609
01:20:17,940 --> 01:20:19,740
so

5610
01:20:19,740 --> 01:20:21,960
fast bank

5611
01:20:21,960 --> 01:20:22,640
transfers

5612
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,480
the IRS

5613
01:20:24,480 --> 01:20:25,020
being able to

5614
01:20:25,020 --> 01:20:25,420
account for

5615
01:20:25,420 --> 01:20:25,720
lots of

5616
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:26,100
people

5617
01:20:26,100 --> 01:20:27,300
it sucks

5618
01:20:27,300 --> 01:20:28,000
people into

5619
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:28,840
a very rigid

5620
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:29,520
fiscalized

5621
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:29,840
structure

5622
01:20:29,840 --> 01:20:30,820
so you can

5623
01:20:30,820 --> 01:20:31,100
have

5624
01:20:31,100 --> 01:20:32,560
a lot of

5625
01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:32,860
political

5626
01:20:32,860 --> 01:20:33,520
change

5627
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:34,640
in the United

5628
01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:35,160
States

5629
01:20:35,160 --> 01:20:37,380
but will it

5630
01:20:37,380 --> 01:20:37,880
really change

5631
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:38,280
that much

5632
01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:38,700
will it

5633
01:20:38,700 --> 01:20:39,140
will it

5634
01:20:39,140 --> 01:20:39,560
change the

5635
01:20:39,560 --> 01:20:39,920
amount of

5636
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:40,320
money in

5637
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:40,600
someone's

5638
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:41,160
bank account

5639
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:42,540
will it

5640
01:20:42,540 --> 01:20:43,080
change

5641
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:43,960
contracts

5642
01:20:43,960 --> 01:20:44,820
will it

5643
01:20:44,820 --> 01:20:45,620
void

5644
01:20:45,620 --> 01:20:46,620
contracts that

5645
01:20:46,620 --> 01:20:47,440
already exist

5646
01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:48,180
and contracts

5647
01:20:48,180 --> 01:20:48,840
on contracts

5648
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:49,240
and contracts

5649
01:20:49,240 --> 01:20:49,680
on contracts

5650
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:50,200
and contracts

5651
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:51,340
not really

5652
01:20:51,340 --> 01:20:52,620
so actually

5653
01:20:52,620 --> 01:20:54,780
I say

5654
01:20:54,780 --> 01:20:55,580
that

5655
01:20:55,580 --> 01:20:57,120
free speech

5656
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:58,520
in many

5657
01:20:58,520 --> 01:20:59,020
places

5658
01:20:59,020 --> 01:20:59,420
in many

5659
01:20:59,420 --> 01:20:59,800
western

5660
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:00,280
places

5661
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:01,920
is free

5662
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:03,040
not as a

5663
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:03,860
result of

5664
01:21:03,860 --> 01:21:04,180
liberal

5665
01:21:04,180 --> 01:21:05,040
circumstances

5666
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:05,520
in the

5667
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:05,900
west

5668
01:21:05,900 --> 01:21:07,240
but rather

5669
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:07,680
as a

5670
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:08,320
result of

5671
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:09,420
such intense

5672
01:21:09,420 --> 01:21:10,320
fiscalization

5673
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:10,900
that it

5674
01:21:10,900 --> 01:21:11,440
doesn't matter

5675
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:11,880
what you

5676
01:21:11,880 --> 01:21:12,180
say

5677
01:21:12,180 --> 01:21:13,280
i.e.

5678
01:21:13,620 --> 01:21:14,300
the dominant

5679
01:21:14,300 --> 01:21:14,800
elite

5680
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:16,120
doesn't have

5681
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:16,780
to be scared

5682
01:21:16,780 --> 01:21:17,100
of what

5683
01:21:17,100 --> 01:21:17,400
people

5684
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:17,760
think

5685
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:18,760
because

5686
01:21:18,760 --> 01:21:20,400
a change

5687
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:20,920
in political

5688
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:21,380
view

5689
01:21:21,380 --> 01:21:22,360
is not going

5690
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:22,880
to change

5691
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:23,240
whether they

5692
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:23,580
own their

5693
01:21:23,580 --> 01:21:24,060
company or

5694
01:21:24,060 --> 01:21:24,240
not

5695
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:24,580
it's not

5696
01:21:24,580 --> 01:21:24,880
going to

5697
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:25,100
change

5698
01:21:25,100 --> 01:21:25,360
whether they

5699
01:21:25,360 --> 01:21:25,600
own a

5700
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:25,860
piece of

5701
01:21:25,860 --> 01:21:26,240
land or

5702
01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:26,420
not

5703
01:21:26,420 --> 01:21:27,600
but China

5704
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:28,380
is still

5705
01:21:28,380 --> 01:21:28,920
a political

5706
01:21:28,920 --> 01:21:29,600
society

5707
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:30,040
although it

5708
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:30,540
is rapidly

5709
01:21:30,540 --> 01:21:31,860
heading towards

5710
01:21:31,860 --> 01:21:32,440
a fiscalized

5711
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:32,820
society

5712
01:21:32,820 --> 01:21:33,440
and other

5713
01:21:33,440 --> 01:21:34,160
societies

5714
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:35,880
like Egypt

5715
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:36,160
was

5716
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:38,080
are still

5717
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:38,440
heavily

5718
01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:39,320
politicized

5719
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:40,040
and so

5720
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:40,600
their rules

5721
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:41,200
really do

5722
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:41,760
need to be

5723
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:42,360
concerned about

5724
01:21:42,360 --> 01:21:42,780
what people

5725
01:21:42,780 --> 01:21:43,120
think

5726
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:43,740
and so

5727
01:21:43,740 --> 01:21:44,040
they

5728
01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:44,960
spend

5729
01:21:44,960 --> 01:21:45,660
apportionate

5730
01:21:45,660 --> 01:21:46,060
efforts

5731
01:21:46,060 --> 01:21:46,500
on

5732
01:21:46,500 --> 01:21:47,420
controlling

5733
01:21:47,420 --> 01:21:49,480
freedom of

5734
01:21:49,480 --> 01:21:49,780
speech

5735
01:21:49,780 --> 01:21:50,700
so

5736
01:21:50,700 --> 01:21:51,820
I think

5737
01:21:51,820 --> 01:21:52,540
young people

5738
01:21:52,540 --> 01:21:53,300
actually have

5739
01:21:53,300 --> 01:21:54,600
fairly good

5740
01:21:54,600 --> 01:21:55,220
values

5741
01:21:55,220 --> 01:21:55,600
of course

5742
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:55,920
there's

5743
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:57,300
a spectrum

5744
01:21:57,300 --> 01:21:57,940
and so on

5745
01:21:57,940 --> 01:21:58,400
but

5746
01:21:58,400 --> 01:21:59,140
they actually

5747
01:21:59,140 --> 01:21:59,680
have fairly

5748
01:21:59,680 --> 01:22:00,780
good values

5749
01:22:00,780 --> 01:22:01,240
most of

5750
01:22:01,240 --> 01:22:01,680
the time

5751
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:03,140
and they

5752
01:22:03,140 --> 01:22:03,460
want to

5753
01:22:03,460 --> 01:22:03,820
demonstrate

5754
01:22:03,820 --> 01:22:04,240
them to

5755
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:04,720
other people

5756
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:05,040
and you

5757
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:05,720
can see

5758
01:22:05,720 --> 01:22:06,240
this in

5759
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:07,880
when people

5760
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:08,360
first go to

5761
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:08,820
university

5762
01:22:08,820 --> 01:22:09,440
and so on

5763
01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:10,200
and they

5764
01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:11,100
become hardened

5765
01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:13,360
as a result

5766
01:22:13,360 --> 01:22:15,300
of certain

5767
01:22:15,300 --> 01:22:15,960
things having

5768
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:16,380
a payoff

5769
01:22:16,380 --> 01:22:16,820
and other

5770
01:22:16,820 --> 01:22:17,220
things not

5771
01:22:17,220 --> 01:22:17,920
having a payoff

5772
01:22:17,920 --> 01:22:19,800
studying

5773
01:22:19,800 --> 01:22:21,920
for an exam

5774
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:22,720
constantly

5775
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:23,860
even though

5776
01:22:23,860 --> 01:22:24,940
in some cases

5777
01:22:24,940 --> 01:22:25,400
the work is

5778
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:26,380
completely mindless

5779
01:22:26,380 --> 01:22:27,420
and pointless

5780
01:22:27,420 --> 01:22:28,840
has a payoff

5781
01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:29,240
at the end

5782
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:29,620
of the year

5783
01:22:29,620 --> 01:22:30,520
but going

5784
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:30,880
and talking

5785
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:31,200
to someone

5786
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:31,580
doing a

5787
01:22:31,580 --> 01:22:31,780
favor

5788
01:22:31,780 --> 01:22:32,200
doesn't have

5789
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:32,520
a payoff

5790
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:32,840
at the end

5791
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:33,100
of the year

5792
01:22:33,100 --> 01:22:33,780
and so

5793
01:22:33,780 --> 01:22:34,160
it just

5794
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:35,660
disincentivizes

5795
01:22:35,660 --> 01:22:36,320
some behaviors

5796
01:22:36,320 --> 01:22:36,840
incentivize

5797
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:37,000
a little

5798
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:38,180
let me tease

5799
01:22:38,180 --> 01:22:38,580
out of this

5800
01:22:38,580 --> 01:22:38,940
a little bit

5801
01:22:38,940 --> 01:22:39,660
it sounds like

5802
01:22:39,660 --> 01:22:39,980
you've got

5803
01:22:39,980 --> 01:22:40,300
a view

5804
01:22:40,300 --> 01:22:40,960
of the globe

5805
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,560
with certain

5806
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:43,160
societies

5807
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:44,040
where the

5808
01:22:44,040 --> 01:22:45,260
impact of

5809
01:22:45,260 --> 01:22:45,820
technology

5810
01:22:45,820 --> 01:22:46,660
is relatively

5811
01:22:46,660 --> 01:22:47,440
slight

5812
01:22:47,440 --> 01:22:48,480
certain societies

5813
01:22:48,480 --> 01:22:48,840
where

5814
01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:49,880
politically

5815
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:51,000
the impact

5816
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:51,840
of technology

5817
01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:52,560
can be quite

5818
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:53,480
great

5819
01:22:53,480 --> 01:22:54,260
and certain

5820
01:22:54,260 --> 01:22:54,660
societies

5821
01:22:54,660 --> 01:22:54,960
where it

5822
01:22:54,960 --> 01:22:55,180
would be

5823
01:22:55,180 --> 01:22:55,620
in a sort

5824
01:22:55,620 --> 01:22:55,880
of

5825
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:56,500
middling

5826
01:22:56,500 --> 01:22:57,020
way

5827
01:22:57,020 --> 01:22:57,400
and you

5828
01:22:57,400 --> 01:22:57,740
would put

5829
01:22:57,740 --> 01:22:57,980
China

5830
01:22:57,980 --> 01:22:58,520
into the

5831
01:22:58,520 --> 01:22:59,020
I guess

5832
01:22:59,020 --> 01:22:59,580
the middling

5833
01:22:59,580 --> 01:23:01,100
category

5834
01:23:01,100 --> 01:23:02,440
well it's

5835
01:23:02,440 --> 01:23:03,440
starting to be

5836
01:23:03,440 --> 01:23:03,900
all about

5837
01:23:03,900 --> 01:23:04,520
technology

5838
01:23:04,520 --> 01:23:05,100
and social

5839
01:23:05,100 --> 01:23:05,900
transformation

5840
01:23:05,900 --> 01:23:06,420
10 years

5841
01:23:06,420 --> 01:23:06,800
down the

5842
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:07,060
line

5843
01:23:07,060 --> 01:23:07,820
what's

5844
01:23:07,820 --> 01:23:08,820
the globe

5845
01:23:08,820 --> 01:23:09,140
that you

5846
01:23:09,140 --> 01:23:09,520
see

5847
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:10,140
given the

5848
01:23:10,140 --> 01:23:10,460
structure

5849
01:23:10,460 --> 01:23:10,740
you're

5850
01:23:10,740 --> 01:23:11,220
describing

5851
01:23:11,220 --> 01:23:13,940
I'm not

5852
01:23:13,940 --> 01:23:14,260
sure

5853
01:23:14,260 --> 01:23:14,580
with the

5854
01:23:14,580 --> 01:23:14,840
impact

5855
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:15,260
on China

5856
01:23:15,260 --> 01:23:15,780
it is

5857
01:23:15,780 --> 01:23:16,040
still

5858
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:16,580
political

5859
01:23:16,580 --> 01:23:17,140
society

5860
01:23:17,140 --> 01:23:17,560
so the

5861
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:17,760
impact

5862
01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:18,000
would be

5863
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:18,200
very

5864
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:18,540
great

5865
01:23:18,540 --> 01:23:18,840
I mean

5866
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:20,440
I often

5867
01:23:20,440 --> 01:23:20,940
say that

5868
01:23:20,940 --> 01:23:21,500
censorship

5869
01:23:21,500 --> 01:23:23,000
is always

5870
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:23,520
pause for

5871
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:24,060
celebration

5872
01:23:24,060 --> 01:23:24,800
it is

5873
01:23:24,800 --> 01:23:25,140
always

5874
01:23:25,140 --> 01:23:25,820
an opportunity

5875
01:23:25,820 --> 01:23:26,980
because it

5876
01:23:26,980 --> 01:23:27,700
reveals fear

5877
01:23:27,700 --> 01:23:28,220
of reform

5878
01:23:28,220 --> 01:23:29,380
it means

5879
01:23:29,380 --> 01:23:29,620
that the

5880
01:23:29,620 --> 01:23:30,220
power position

5881
01:23:30,220 --> 01:23:30,940
is so weak

5882
01:23:30,940 --> 01:23:31,220
that you've

5883
01:23:31,220 --> 01:23:31,580
got to care

5884
01:23:31,580 --> 01:23:32,020
what people

5885
01:23:32,020 --> 01:23:32,300
think

5886
01:23:32,300 --> 01:23:34,300
right

5887
01:23:34,300 --> 01:23:34,980
it's like

5888
01:23:34,980 --> 01:23:35,340
you find

5889
01:23:35,340 --> 01:23:36,380
the sensitive

5890
01:23:36,380 --> 01:23:36,800
arguments

5891
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:37,420
by watching

5892
01:23:37,420 --> 01:23:37,920
them hunt

5893
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:38,400
exactly

5894
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:43,540
so when

5895
01:23:43,540 --> 01:23:43,980
the Chinese

5896
01:23:43,980 --> 01:23:44,880
express all

5897
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:45,360
this energy

5898
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:46,120
on censoring

5899
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:46,580
in all these

5900
01:23:46,580 --> 01:23:47,360
novel ways

5901
01:23:47,360 --> 01:23:48,200
do we say

5902
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:49,000
that it's a

5903
01:23:49,000 --> 01:23:49,620
complete waste

5904
01:23:49,620 --> 01:23:50,020
of time

5905
01:23:50,020 --> 01:23:50,480
and energy

5906
01:23:50,480 --> 01:23:51,860
or do they

5907
01:23:51,860 --> 01:23:52,280
have a whole

5908
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:52,620
bunch of

5909
01:23:52,620 --> 01:23:53,120
experience

5910
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:53,700
managing the

5911
01:23:53,700 --> 01:23:53,980
country

5912
01:23:53,980 --> 01:23:54,480
and understand

5913
01:23:54,480 --> 01:23:54,900
that it

5914
01:23:54,900 --> 01:23:55,280
matters what

5915
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:55,820
people think

5916
01:23:55,820 --> 01:23:56,580
I say

5917
01:23:56,580 --> 01:23:57,300
it's much

5918
01:23:57,300 --> 01:23:57,860
more reasonable

5919
01:23:57,860 --> 01:23:58,520
to interpret

5920
01:23:58,520 --> 01:23:59,040
it as

5921
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,120
that different

5922
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:01,640
groups

5923
01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:02,380
different actors

5924
01:24:02,380 --> 01:24:03,020
within China

5925
01:24:03,020 --> 01:24:04,180
who are able

5926
01:24:04,180 --> 01:24:04,740
to control

5927
01:24:04,740 --> 01:24:05,220
that censorship

5928
01:24:05,220 --> 01:24:07,060
system

5929
01:24:07,060 --> 01:24:08,600
understand

5930
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:09,640
correctly

5931
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:10,280
that their

5932
01:24:10,280 --> 01:24:10,820
power position

5933
01:24:10,820 --> 01:24:11,180
is weak

5934
01:24:11,180 --> 01:24:11,540
and they need

5935
01:24:11,540 --> 01:24:11,980
to be careful

5936
01:24:11,980 --> 01:24:12,400
what people

5937
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:12,700
think

5938
01:24:12,700 --> 01:24:13,140
so they have

5939
01:24:13,140 --> 01:24:13,600
to censor

5940
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:14,600
so the

5941
01:24:14,600 --> 01:24:14,980
state's

5942
01:24:14,980 --> 01:24:15,440
rational

5943
01:24:15,440 --> 01:24:15,900
at least

5944
01:24:15,900 --> 01:24:16,200
in its

5945
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:16,740
repression

5946
01:24:16,740 --> 01:24:18,900
I'm always

5947
01:24:18,900 --> 01:24:19,260
worried about

5948
01:24:19,260 --> 01:24:19,640
talking about

5949
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:20,100
the state

5950
01:24:20,100 --> 01:24:20,580
because

5951
01:24:20,580 --> 01:24:21,820
it's all

5952
01:24:21,820 --> 01:24:22,680
individuals

5953
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:23,200
acting

5954
01:24:23,200 --> 01:24:23,540
in their

5955
01:24:23,540 --> 01:24:23,800
own

5956
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:24,540
perceived

5957
01:24:24,540 --> 01:24:25,620
interests

5958
01:24:25,620 --> 01:24:25,920
some

5959
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:26,540
this

5960
01:24:26,540 --> 01:24:26,820
group

5961
01:24:26,820 --> 01:24:26,980
or

5962
01:24:26,980 --> 01:24:27,140
that

5963
01:24:27,140 --> 01:24:27,440
group

5964
01:24:27,440 --> 01:24:28,120
you know

5965
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:30,340
even the

5966
01:24:30,340 --> 01:24:31,180
censors in

5967
01:24:31,180 --> 01:24:31,460
China

5968
01:24:31,460 --> 01:24:31,860
the public

5969
01:24:31,860 --> 01:24:32,420
security

5970
01:24:32,420 --> 01:24:34,320
bureau

5971
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:34,720
and people

5972
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:35,280
blow them

5973
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:37,600
why do they

5974
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:38,160
censor stuff

5975
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:38,540
and what do

5976
01:24:38,540 --> 01:24:39,000
they censor

5977
01:24:39,000 --> 01:24:39,340
first

5978
01:24:39,340 --> 01:24:41,380
they censor

5979
01:24:41,380 --> 01:24:41,860
first

5980
01:24:41,860 --> 01:24:42,420
the thing

5981
01:24:42,420 --> 01:24:42,920
that someone

5982
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:43,200
in the

5983
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:43,460
political

5984
01:24:43,460 --> 01:24:43,700
euro

5985
01:24:43,700 --> 01:24:44,340
might see

5986
01:24:44,340 --> 01:24:45,320
that's what

5987
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:45,680
they censor

5988
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:46,020
first

5989
01:24:46,020 --> 01:24:46,580
they're not

5990
01:24:46,580 --> 01:24:46,860
actually

5991
01:24:46,860 --> 01:24:47,280
concerned

5992
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:47,540
about

5993
01:24:47,540 --> 01:24:47,860
dark

5994
01:24:47,860 --> 01:24:48,160
nets

5995
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,660
they're not

5996
01:24:51,660 --> 01:24:52,960
concerned

5997
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:53,300
about

5998
01:24:53,300 --> 01:24:53,620
dark

5999
01:24:53,620 --> 01:24:53,880
nets

6000
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:54,840
because

6001
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:55,440
their bosses

6002
01:24:55,440 --> 01:24:56,020
can't see

6003
01:24:56,020 --> 01:24:56,380
what's on

6004
01:24:56,380 --> 01:24:56,740
the dark

6005
01:24:56,740 --> 01:24:56,900
net

6006
01:24:56,900 --> 01:24:57,200
and so

6007
01:24:57,200 --> 01:24:57,680
they can't

6008
01:24:57,680 --> 01:24:58,560
be blamed

6009
01:24:58,560 --> 01:24:58,920
for not

6010
01:24:58,920 --> 01:24:59,340
censoring

6011
01:24:59,340 --> 01:24:59,560
it

6012
01:24:59,560 --> 01:25:01,080
we had

6013
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:01,340
this

6014
01:25:01,340 --> 01:25:02,100
fantastic

6015
01:25:02,100 --> 01:25:02,540
case

6016
01:25:02,540 --> 01:25:02,820
here

6017
01:25:02,820 --> 01:25:03,500
in the

6018
01:25:03,500 --> 01:25:03,780
UK

6019
01:25:03,780 --> 01:25:05,060
we got

6020
01:25:05,060 --> 01:25:05,300
a whole

6021
01:25:05,300 --> 01:25:05,520
bunch

6022
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:05,940
of classified

6023
01:25:05,940 --> 01:25:06,460
documents

6024
01:25:06,460 --> 01:25:06,960
from the

6025
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:07,760
UK

6026
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:09,020
military

6027
01:25:09,020 --> 01:25:10,360
and published

6028
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:10,800
a bunch

6029
01:25:10,800 --> 01:25:13,560
and then

6030
01:25:13,560 --> 01:25:14,100
later on

6031
01:25:14,100 --> 01:25:14,460
we did

6032
01:25:14,460 --> 01:25:14,720
a sort

6033
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:15,680
of

6034
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:17,840
preemptive

6035
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:18,580
FOI

6036
01:25:18,580 --> 01:25:18,960
which we

6037
01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:19,080
do

6038
01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:19,540
occasionally

6039
01:25:19,540 --> 01:25:20,560
on various

6040
01:25:20,560 --> 01:25:21,040
governments

6041
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:21,360
where we

6042
01:25:21,360 --> 01:25:21,600
can

6043
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:22,320
so we

6044
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:22,540
did it

6045
01:25:22,540 --> 01:25:22,760
on the

6046
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:23,040
UK

6047
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:23,540
Ministry

6048
01:25:23,540 --> 01:25:24,060
of Defence

6049
01:25:24,060 --> 01:25:24,880
just to

6050
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:25,360
see whether

6051
01:25:25,360 --> 01:25:25,840
they're doing

6052
01:25:25,840 --> 01:25:26,080
some

6053
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:26,720
investigation

6054
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:28,040
sort of

6055
01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:28,440
a

6056
01:25:28,440 --> 01:25:29,540
force

6057
01:25:29,540 --> 01:25:29,920
protection

6058
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:30,260
thing

6059
01:25:30,260 --> 01:25:30,860
to understand

6060
01:25:30,860 --> 01:25:31,120
what's

6061
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:31,580
going on

6062
01:25:31,580 --> 01:25:33,060
and

6063
01:25:33,060 --> 01:25:34,320
so we

6064
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:34,680
got back

6065
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:35,940
first

6066
01:25:35,940 --> 01:25:37,140
they pretended

6067
01:25:37,140 --> 01:25:37,560
not to give

6068
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:37,800
us any

6069
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:38,220
documents

6070
01:25:38,220 --> 01:25:38,520
then we

6071
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:38,780
appealed

6072
01:25:38,780 --> 01:25:39,040
then we

6073
01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:39,300
got back

6074
01:25:39,300 --> 01:25:39,540
a bunch

6075
01:25:39,540 --> 01:25:39,980
of documents

6076
01:25:39,980 --> 01:25:42,240
and so

6077
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:43,100
it showed

6078
01:25:43,100 --> 01:25:43,520
that

6079
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:44,960
someone

6080
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:45,780
in there

6081
01:25:45,780 --> 01:25:46,700
had spotted

6082
01:25:46,700 --> 01:25:47,440
that there

6083
01:25:47,440 --> 01:25:48,120
was a

6084
01:25:48,120 --> 01:25:48,600
bunch of

6085
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:49,300
UK military

6086
01:25:49,300 --> 01:25:50,240
documents

6087
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:50,500
on our

6088
01:25:50,500 --> 01:25:50,940
website

6089
01:25:50,940 --> 01:25:51,800
about their

6090
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:52,160
surveillance

6091
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:52,680
program

6092
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:53,080
another

6093
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:54,220
2000 page

6094
01:25:54,220 --> 01:25:54,620
document

6095
01:25:54,620 --> 01:25:55,120
about how

6096
01:25:55,120 --> 01:25:55,800
to stop

6097
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:56,100
things

6098
01:25:56,100 --> 01:25:57,460
leaking

6099
01:25:57,460 --> 01:25:57,980
and that

6100
01:25:57,980 --> 01:25:58,140
their

6101
01:25:58,140 --> 01:25:58,740
number one

6102
01:25:58,740 --> 01:26:00,540
threat to

6103
01:26:00,540 --> 01:26:00,920
the UK

6104
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:01,340
military

6105
01:26:01,340 --> 01:26:02,020
was investigative

6106
01:26:02,020 --> 01:26:02,540
journalists

6107
01:26:02,540 --> 01:26:07,760
so that

6108
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:08,240
had gone

6109
01:26:08,240 --> 01:26:09,020
into some

6110
01:26:09,020 --> 01:26:09,960
counter

6111
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:10,600
intelligence

6112
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,520
and they

6113
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:13,940
were like

6114
01:26:13,940 --> 01:26:14,580
oh my god

6115
01:26:14,580 --> 01:26:15,060
there's hundreds

6116
01:26:15,060 --> 01:26:15,560
of pages

6117
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:15,880
and it's

6118
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:16,200
about all

6119
01:26:16,200 --> 01:26:16,460
sorts of

6120
01:26:16,460 --> 01:26:16,720
countries

6121
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:16,980
and it

6122
01:26:16,980 --> 01:26:17,320
just keeps

6123
01:26:17,320 --> 01:26:17,600
going

6124
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:18,020
it's endless

6125
01:26:18,020 --> 01:26:18,540
it's endless

6126
01:26:18,540 --> 01:26:19,280
exclamation

6127
01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:19,580
you know

6128
01:26:19,580 --> 01:26:20,460
five exclamation

6129
01:26:20,460 --> 01:26:20,780
marks

6130
01:26:20,780 --> 01:26:22,680
and it was

6131
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:23,640
like okay

6132
01:26:23,640 --> 01:26:24,180
so that's the

6133
01:26:24,180 --> 01:26:25,100
discovery phase

6134
01:26:25,100 --> 01:26:25,540
now the

6135
01:26:25,540 --> 01:26:26,460
what is to be

6136
01:26:26,460 --> 01:26:27,260
done phase

6137
01:26:27,260 --> 01:26:29,860
what is to be

6138
01:26:29,860 --> 01:26:30,160
done

6139
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:32,460
BT has the

6140
01:26:32,460 --> 01:26:32,980
contracts for

6141
01:26:32,980 --> 01:26:33,340
the MOD

6142
01:26:33,340 --> 01:26:34,300
they told

6143
01:26:34,300 --> 01:26:35,640
BT to

6144
01:26:35,640 --> 01:26:37,700
censor

6145
01:26:37,700 --> 01:26:38,280
us

6146
01:26:38,280 --> 01:26:39,180
from them

6147
01:26:39,180 --> 01:26:41,800
so everyone

6148
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:42,380
in the UK

6149
01:26:42,380 --> 01:26:43,300
MOD could

6150
01:26:43,300 --> 01:26:43,760
no longer

6151
01:26:43,760 --> 01:26:44,300
read

6152
01:26:44,300 --> 01:26:46,420
what was on

6153
01:26:46,420 --> 01:26:46,960
WikiLeaks

6154
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:48,560
problem solved

6155
01:26:48,560 --> 01:26:49,920
interesting

6156
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:50,480
it's like

6157
01:26:50,480 --> 01:26:51,320
I their generals

6158
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:51,900
and their bosses

6159
01:26:51,900 --> 01:26:52,800
and all these

6160
01:26:52,800 --> 01:26:53,500
people could no

6161
01:26:53,500 --> 01:26:54,280
longer see that

6162
01:26:54,280 --> 01:26:54,760
we had

6163
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:56,840
MOD stuff

6164
01:26:56,840 --> 01:26:57,260
on there

6165
01:26:57,260 --> 01:26:59,200
and so now

6166
01:26:59,200 --> 01:26:59,760
there's no more

6167
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:00,480
complaints and

6168
01:27:00,480 --> 01:27:00,860
their problem

6169
01:27:00,860 --> 01:27:01,400
is solved

6170
01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,780
so some

6171
01:27:03,780 --> 01:27:04,700
understandings

6172
01:27:04,700 --> 01:27:05,380
like this

6173
01:27:05,380 --> 01:27:06,880
might be quite

6174
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:07,880
advantageous to

6175
01:27:07,880 --> 01:27:09,480
use in some

6176
01:27:09,480 --> 01:27:10,000
of these systems

6177
01:27:10,000 --> 01:27:10,460
so it means

6178
01:27:10,460 --> 01:27:11,200
that dark

6179
01:27:11,200 --> 01:27:11,600
nets for

6180
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:12,040
example

6181
01:27:12,040 --> 01:27:12,440
if you

6182
01:27:12,440 --> 01:27:12,840
understand

6183
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:15,700
the bureaucratic

6184
01:27:15,700 --> 01:27:16,420
structures that

6185
01:27:16,420 --> 01:27:17,780
employ people

6186
01:27:17,780 --> 01:27:18,500
and give tasks

6187
01:27:18,500 --> 01:27:19,760
always have that

6188
01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:20,180
sort of thing

6189
01:27:20,180 --> 01:27:20,880
going on

6190
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:22,400
then that

6191
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:22,820
means

6192
01:27:22,820 --> 01:27:25,000
dark nets

6193
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,000
are going to

6194
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:27,400
have a pretty

6195
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:28,060
easy time

6196
01:27:28,060 --> 01:27:28,420
of it

6197
01:27:28,420 --> 01:27:29,980
until they're

6198
01:27:29,980 --> 01:27:30,640
so big

6199
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:31,600
that they're

6200
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:32,020
not dark

6201
01:27:32,020 --> 01:27:32,780
nets anymore

6202
01:27:32,780 --> 01:27:36,640
that's really

6203
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:37,980
really interesting

6204
01:27:37,980 --> 01:27:39,180
you mentioned

6205
01:27:39,180 --> 01:27:39,760
investigative

6206
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:40,260
journalism

6207
01:27:40,260 --> 01:27:43,220
you've had a lot

6208
01:27:43,220 --> 01:27:43,720
of experience

6209
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:44,200
with journalism

6210
01:27:44,200 --> 01:27:44,700
by now

6211
01:27:44,700 --> 01:27:45,360
in many

6212
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:46,100
different respects

6213
01:27:46,100 --> 01:27:47,000
how do you

6214
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:49,400
see

6215
01:27:49,400 --> 01:27:51,220
the kind

6216
01:27:51,220 --> 01:27:52,340
of

6217
01:27:52,340 --> 01:27:54,260
freeing

6218
01:27:54,260 --> 01:27:54,840
of information

6219
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:55,260
that you're

6220
01:27:55,260 --> 01:27:55,860
describing

6221
01:27:55,860 --> 01:27:56,760
you were

6222
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:57,080
describing

6223
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:57,520
earlier

6224
01:27:57,520 --> 01:27:59,740
as fitting

6225
01:27:59,740 --> 01:28:00,200
into

6226
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:01,300
journalistic

6227
01:28:01,300 --> 01:28:01,880
processes

6228
01:28:01,880 --> 01:28:03,000
if at all

6229
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:03,400
or is it

6230
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:04,240
replacing it

6231
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:05,620
it's more

6232
01:28:05,620 --> 01:28:06,560
how does

6233
01:28:06,560 --> 01:28:07,080
journalistic

6234
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:07,860
processes

6235
01:28:07,860 --> 01:28:09,580
fit into

6236
01:28:09,580 --> 01:28:10,420
something that

6237
01:28:10,420 --> 01:28:10,720
is much

6238
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:11,000
bigger

6239
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:12,080
and the

6240
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:12,700
much bigger

6241
01:28:12,700 --> 01:28:13,220
thing is

6242
01:28:13,220 --> 01:28:13,540
that

6243
01:28:13,540 --> 01:28:15,380
we as

6244
01:28:15,380 --> 01:28:16,140
human beings

6245
01:28:16,140 --> 01:28:17,000
shepherd

6246
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,460
and create

6247
01:28:19,460 --> 01:28:20,880
our intellectual

6248
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:21,300
history

6249
01:28:21,300 --> 01:28:21,700
as a

6250
01:28:21,700 --> 01:28:22,200
civilization

6251
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:23,620
and it

6252
01:28:23,620 --> 01:28:24,040
is that

6253
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:25,240
intellectual

6254
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:25,840
history

6255
01:28:25,840 --> 01:28:26,380
on the

6256
01:28:26,380 --> 01:28:26,700
shelf

6257
01:28:26,700 --> 01:28:28,160
that we

6258
01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:28,520
can pull

6259
01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:28,780
off to

6260
01:28:28,780 --> 01:28:28,940
do

6261
01:28:28,940 --> 01:28:29,300
stuff

6262
01:28:29,300 --> 01:28:30,680
and not

6263
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:30,920
do the

6264
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:31,080
dumb

6265
01:28:31,080 --> 01:28:31,260
thing

6266
01:28:31,260 --> 01:28:31,660
again

6267
01:28:31,660 --> 01:28:32,440
because

6268
01:28:32,440 --> 01:28:32,820
someone

6269
01:28:32,820 --> 01:28:33,060
already

6270
01:28:33,060 --> 01:28:33,500
said it

6271
01:28:33,500 --> 01:28:33,920
was dumb

6272
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:34,540
and wrote

6273
01:28:34,540 --> 01:28:34,880
about their

6274
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:35,280
experience

6275
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:35,600
so we don't

6276
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:35,840
have to do it

6277
01:28:35,840 --> 01:28:36,040
again

6278
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:38,900
and so there

6279
01:28:38,900 --> 01:28:39,780
are several

6280
01:28:39,780 --> 01:28:40,560
different processes

6281
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:41,560
that are creating

6282
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:42,340
that record

6283
01:28:42,340 --> 01:28:43,320
and other

6284
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:44,440
processes where

6285
01:28:44,440 --> 01:28:44,980
people are trying

6286
01:28:44,980 --> 01:28:45,520
to destroy

6287
01:28:45,520 --> 01:28:46,120
bits of that

6288
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:46,520
record

6289
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:47,460
and others

6290
01:28:47,460 --> 01:28:48,100
that are trying

6291
01:28:48,100 --> 01:28:48,540
to prevent

6292
01:28:48,540 --> 01:28:49,220
people putting

6293
01:28:49,220 --> 01:28:49,740
things into

6294
01:28:49,740 --> 01:28:50,200
the record

6295
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:51,800
but we all

6296
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:53,780
live off that

6297
01:28:53,780 --> 01:28:54,720
intellectual record

6298
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:57,620
so what we

6299
01:28:57,620 --> 01:28:58,180
want to do is

6300
01:28:58,180 --> 01:28:59,280
get as much

6301
01:28:59,280 --> 01:28:59,700
into the

6302
01:28:59,700 --> 01:29:00,100
record

6303
01:29:00,100 --> 01:29:01,660
prevent as

6304
01:29:01,660 --> 01:29:02,040
much as

6305
01:29:02,040 --> 01:29:02,740
possible being

6306
01:29:02,740 --> 01:29:03,460
deleted from

6307
01:29:03,460 --> 01:29:03,940
the record

6308
01:29:03,940 --> 01:29:05,380
and then

6309
01:29:05,380 --> 01:29:06,520
have the

6310
01:29:06,520 --> 01:29:07,020
record as

6311
01:29:07,020 --> 01:29:07,600
searchable as

6312
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:07,960
possible

6313
01:29:07,960 --> 01:29:08,720
but one

6314
01:29:08,720 --> 01:29:09,540
consequence of

6315
01:29:09,540 --> 01:29:10,840
this is that

6316
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:12,140
actors will

6317
01:29:12,140 --> 01:29:13,800
find the

6318
01:29:13,800 --> 01:29:14,480
generation of

6319
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:15,300
very large

6320
01:29:15,300 --> 01:29:15,760
amounts of

6321
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:16,400
misinformation

6322
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:17,440
strategic for

6323
01:29:17,440 --> 01:29:17,620
them

6324
01:29:17,620 --> 01:29:18,680
yeah

6325
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:20,060
so this is

6326
01:29:20,060 --> 01:29:21,140
another type of

6327
01:29:21,140 --> 01:29:21,900
censorship that

6328
01:29:21,900 --> 01:29:22,320
I have

6329
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:23,080
thought about

6330
01:29:23,080 --> 01:29:23,400
but don't

6331
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:24,040
speak so much

6332
01:29:24,040 --> 01:29:24,340
about

6333
01:29:24,340 --> 01:29:25,980
which is

6334
01:29:25,980 --> 01:29:26,660
censorship

6335
01:29:26,660 --> 01:29:27,320
through

6336
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:27,860
complexity

6337
01:29:27,860 --> 01:29:29,440
and

6338
01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:32,820
that is

6339
01:29:32,820 --> 01:29:33,500
basically the

6340
01:29:33,500 --> 01:29:34,180
offshore financial

6341
01:29:34,180 --> 01:29:34,620
sector

6342
01:29:34,620 --> 01:29:36,660
is censorship

6343
01:29:36,660 --> 01:29:37,460
through complexity

6344
01:29:37,460 --> 01:29:38,780
censorship of

6345
01:29:38,780 --> 01:29:39,080
what?

6346
01:29:39,380 --> 01:29:39,860
Censorship of

6347
01:29:39,860 --> 01:29:40,740
political outrage

6348
01:29:40,740 --> 01:29:41,660
they're not

6349
01:29:41,660 --> 01:29:42,520
political outrage

6350
01:29:42,520 --> 01:29:42,960
there's law

6351
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:43,280
reform

6352
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:44,200
you can't do

6353
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:44,600
it anymore

6354
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:46,360
so why is it

6355
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:46,840
that all these

6356
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:47,380
careful

6357
01:29:47,380 --> 01:29:49,660
tax structuring

6358
01:29:49,660 --> 01:29:50,700
arrangements are

6359
01:29:50,700 --> 01:29:51,400
so complex

6360
01:29:51,400 --> 01:29:52,940
I mean they

6361
01:29:52,940 --> 01:29:53,520
may be perfectly

6362
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:54,320
legal but why

6363
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:54,740
are they so

6364
01:29:54,740 --> 01:29:55,840
goddamn complex?

6365
01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:58,040
well because the

6366
01:29:58,040 --> 01:29:58,740
ones that weren't

6367
01:29:58,740 --> 01:29:59,620
complex were

6368
01:29:59,620 --> 01:30:00,440
understood and the

6369
01:30:00,440 --> 01:30:00,840
ones that were

6370
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:01,380
understood were

6371
01:30:01,380 --> 01:30:02,400
regulated so you're

6372
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:03,140
only left with the

6373
01:30:03,140 --> 01:30:03,580
things that are

6374
01:30:03,580 --> 01:30:04,280
incredibly complex

6375
01:30:04,280 --> 01:30:04,980
more noise

6376
01:30:04,980 --> 01:30:05,560
less signal

6377
01:30:05,560 --> 01:30:06,440
yeah exactly

6378
01:30:06,440 --> 01:30:07,100
exactly

6379
01:30:07,100 --> 01:30:07,860
but how in the

6380
01:30:07,860 --> 01:30:09,320
future will people

6381
01:30:09,320 --> 01:30:10,100
deal with the fact

6382
01:30:10,100 --> 01:30:10,700
that the incentive

6383
01:30:10,700 --> 01:30:12,980
to publish information

6384
01:30:12,980 --> 01:30:13,760
that's misleading

6385
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:14,440
wrong

6386
01:30:14,440 --> 01:30:15,060
manipulative

6387
01:30:15,060 --> 01:30:17,120
is very high

6388
01:30:17,120 --> 01:30:18,020
and furthermore

6389
01:30:18,020 --> 01:30:19,620
you can't figure out

6390
01:30:19,620 --> 01:30:20,740
who the bad publisher

6391
01:30:20,740 --> 01:30:21,620
was as well as

6392
01:30:21,620 --> 01:30:22,860
so I said

6393
01:30:22,860 --> 01:30:23,360
is there

6394
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:24,160
anonymity in the

6395
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:24,480
system

6396
01:30:24,480 --> 01:30:25,220
well

6397
01:30:25,220 --> 01:30:26,920
the way it is

6398
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:27,380
right now

6399
01:30:27,380 --> 01:30:28,300
first you have to

6400
01:30:28,300 --> 01:30:28,620
understand

6401
01:30:28,620 --> 01:30:29,100
the way it is

6402
01:30:29,100 --> 01:30:29,500
right now

6403
01:30:29,500 --> 01:30:30,340
is very bad

6404
01:30:30,340 --> 01:30:33,440
this friend of

6405
01:30:33,440 --> 01:30:33,660
mine

6406
01:30:33,660 --> 01:30:34,500
Greg Mitchell

6407
01:30:34,500 --> 01:30:35,160
wrote a book

6408
01:30:35,160 --> 01:30:35,460
about the

6409
01:30:35,460 --> 01:30:36,240
mainstream media

6410
01:30:36,240 --> 01:30:37,060
so wrong

6411
01:30:37,060 --> 01:30:37,760
for so long

6412
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:38,760
and that's

6413
01:30:38,760 --> 01:30:39,860
basically it

6414
01:30:39,860 --> 01:30:41,240
that yes

6415
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:42,000
we have these

6416
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:43,360
heroic moments

6417
01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:44,400
with Watergate

6418
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:45,360
and Bernstein

6419
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:47,020
but actually

6420
01:30:47,020 --> 01:30:47,920
come on

6421
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:48,980
it's never been

6422
01:30:48,980 --> 01:30:49,420
very good

6423
01:30:49,420 --> 01:30:50,160
it's always been

6424
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:50,820
very bad

6425
01:30:50,820 --> 01:30:52,220
and these

6426
01:30:52,220 --> 01:30:53,420
fine journalists

6427
01:30:53,420 --> 01:30:54,200
are an exception

6428
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:54,800
to the rule

6429
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:56,040
and

6430
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:58,220
you know

6431
01:30:58,220 --> 01:30:59,320
when you're

6432
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:00,660
especially when

6433
01:31:00,660 --> 01:31:01,220
you're involved

6434
01:31:01,220 --> 01:31:02,000
in something yourself

6435
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:02,500
and you know

6436
01:31:02,500 --> 01:31:03,700
every facet of it

6437
01:31:03,700 --> 01:31:05,380
and you look to see

6438
01:31:05,380 --> 01:31:06,080
what is reported

6439
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:07,520
by it

6440
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:08,760
in the mainstream

6441
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:09,240
press

6442
01:31:09,240 --> 01:31:10,220
and you can see

6443
01:31:10,220 --> 01:31:11,660
naked lies

6444
01:31:11,660 --> 01:31:12,760
after naked lies

6445
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:13,320
you know

6446
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:14,000
that the journalist

6447
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:14,980
knows there's a lie

6448
01:31:14,980 --> 01:31:15,560
it's not a simple

6449
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:16,040
mistake

6450
01:31:16,040 --> 01:31:17,140
and then simple

6451
01:31:17,140 --> 01:31:17,540
mistakes

6452
01:31:17,540 --> 01:31:18,320
and then people

6453
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:19,180
repeating lies

6454
01:31:19,180 --> 01:31:19,720
and so on

6455
01:31:19,720 --> 01:31:21,280
that actually

6456
01:31:21,280 --> 01:31:22,220
the condition

6457
01:31:22,220 --> 01:31:22,820
of the mainstream

6458
01:31:22,820 --> 01:31:23,460
press now

6459
01:31:23,460 --> 01:31:24,100
is so

6460
01:31:24,100 --> 01:31:25,220
appalling

6461
01:31:25,220 --> 01:31:27,240
I actually

6462
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:27,620
don't think

6463
01:31:27,620 --> 01:31:27,960
it can be

6464
01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:29,120
reformed

6465
01:31:29,120 --> 01:31:29,580
I don't think

6466
01:31:29,580 --> 01:31:30,120
that's possible

6467
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:30,940
I think

6468
01:31:30,940 --> 01:31:31,760
actually I think

6469
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:32,240
it has to be

6470
01:31:32,240 --> 01:31:32,700
eliminated

6471
01:31:32,700 --> 01:31:34,680
and replaced

6472
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:35,160
with something

6473
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:35,740
that's better

6474
01:31:35,740 --> 01:31:36,900
which does seem

6475
01:31:36,900 --> 01:31:37,580
to be happening

6476
01:31:37,580 --> 01:31:38,640
yes

6477
01:31:38,640 --> 01:31:40,900
and I think

6478
01:31:40,900 --> 01:31:41,560
things like

6479
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:41,980
you know

6480
01:31:41,980 --> 01:31:42,220
I've been

6481
01:31:42,220 --> 01:31:42,720
pushing this

6482
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:43,200
idea of

6483
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:43,560
scientific

6484
01:31:43,560 --> 01:31:44,040
journalism

6485
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:44,380
that

6486
01:31:44,380 --> 01:31:45,340
things must

6487
01:31:45,340 --> 01:31:46,040
be precisely

6488
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:46,940
cited

6489
01:31:46,940 --> 01:31:47,540
in the original

6490
01:31:47,540 --> 01:31:48,060
source

6491
01:31:48,060 --> 01:31:48,460
as much

6492
01:31:48,460 --> 01:31:48,760
of it

6493
01:31:48,760 --> 01:31:49,000
is

6494
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:49,620
possibly

6495
01:31:49,620 --> 01:31:50,240
available

6496
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:51,020
should be

6497
01:31:51,020 --> 01:31:51,340
put in

6498
01:31:51,340 --> 01:31:51,660
the public

6499
01:31:51,660 --> 01:31:51,960
domain

6500
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:52,380
so people

6501
01:31:52,380 --> 01:31:52,700
can look

6502
01:31:52,700 --> 01:31:52,940
at it

6503
01:31:52,940 --> 01:31:54,200
just like

6504
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:54,680
in science

6505
01:31:54,680 --> 01:31:55,440
so you can

6506
01:31:55,440 --> 01:31:57,820
test to see

6507
01:31:57,820 --> 01:31:58,180
whether the

6508
01:31:58,180 --> 01:31:58,800
conclusion comes

6509
01:31:58,800 --> 01:31:59,040
from the

6510
01:31:59,040 --> 01:31:59,780
experimental data

6511
01:31:59,780 --> 01:32:00,960
otherwise

6512
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:01,380
you probably

6513
01:32:01,380 --> 01:32:01,780
just made

6514
01:32:01,780 --> 01:32:02,120
it up

6515
01:32:02,120 --> 01:32:02,720
you could

6516
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:02,960
have just

6517
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:03,440
made it up

6518
01:32:03,440 --> 01:32:03,840
in fact

6519
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:04,120
that's what

6520
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:04,560
happens all

6521
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:04,880
the time

6522
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:05,280
people just

6523
01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:05,760
make it up

6524
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:06,980
and they

6525
01:32:06,980 --> 01:32:07,400
make it up

6526
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:07,780
to such

6527
01:32:07,780 --> 01:32:08,220
a degree

6528
01:32:08,220 --> 01:32:09,820
that we

6529
01:32:09,820 --> 01:32:10,460
are led

6530
01:32:10,460 --> 01:32:11,040
to war

6531
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:12,940
most

6532
01:32:12,940 --> 01:32:14,300
most wars

6533
01:32:14,300 --> 01:32:15,140
in the 20th

6534
01:32:15,140 --> 01:32:15,440
century

6535
01:32:15,440 --> 01:32:16,780
have started

6536
01:32:16,780 --> 01:32:17,880
as a result

6537
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:19,460
of lies

6538
01:32:19,460 --> 01:32:21,980
amplified

6539
01:32:21,980 --> 01:32:22,840
and spread

6540
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:23,320
by the

6541
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:23,620
mainstream

6542
01:32:23,620 --> 01:32:24,140
press

6543
01:32:24,140 --> 01:32:25,200
you go

6544
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:25,640
well that's

6545
01:32:25,640 --> 01:32:26,060
a horrible

6546
01:32:26,060 --> 01:32:26,620
circumstance

6547
01:32:26,620 --> 01:32:27,400
that's terrible

6548
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:27,780
that all

6549
01:32:27,780 --> 01:32:28,120
these wars

6550
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:28,340
started

6551
01:32:28,340 --> 01:32:28,700
lies

6552
01:32:28,700 --> 01:32:29,560
and I say

6553
01:32:29,560 --> 01:32:29,880
no no

6554
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:30,420
this is

6555
01:32:30,420 --> 01:32:31,140
this is

6556
01:32:31,140 --> 01:32:31,660
a tremendous

6557
01:32:31,660 --> 01:32:32,320
opportunity

6558
01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:34,120
because it

6559
01:32:34,120 --> 01:32:34,620
means that

6560
01:32:34,620 --> 01:32:35,300
populations

6561
01:32:35,300 --> 01:32:36,680
basically

6562
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:38,320
don't

6563
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:39,580
like wars

6564
01:32:39,580 --> 01:32:40,300
and they

6565
01:32:40,300 --> 01:32:40,500
have to

6566
01:32:40,500 --> 01:32:40,820
be lied

6567
01:32:40,820 --> 01:32:41,800
into it

6568
01:32:41,800 --> 01:32:42,300
and so

6569
01:32:42,300 --> 01:32:43,120
and if

6570
01:32:43,120 --> 01:32:43,720
that means

6571
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:44,460
we can be

6572
01:32:44,460 --> 01:32:44,840
truthed

6573
01:32:44,840 --> 01:32:45,400
into peace

6574
01:32:45,400 --> 01:32:48,080
and so

6575
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:48,380
that's the

6576
01:32:48,380 --> 01:32:48,760
extremely

6577
01:32:48,760 --> 01:32:49,200
optimistic

6578
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:49,540
thing

6579
01:32:49,540 --> 01:32:49,820
but

6580
01:32:49,820 --> 01:32:51,680
this

6581
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:52,940
how do you

6582
01:32:52,940 --> 01:32:53,300
distinguish

6583
01:32:53,300 --> 01:32:53,960
publishers

6584
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:55,020
truthful

6585
01:32:55,020 --> 01:32:55,580
publishers

6586
01:32:55,580 --> 01:32:56,200
untruthful

6587
01:32:56,200 --> 01:32:56,500
publishers

6588
01:32:56,500 --> 01:32:57,100
this is a

6589
01:32:57,100 --> 01:32:57,580
reputational

6590
01:32:57,580 --> 01:32:58,060
business

6591
01:32:58,060 --> 01:32:59,240
and so

6592
01:32:59,240 --> 01:32:59,960
what I would

6593
01:32:59,960 --> 01:33:00,920
like is that

6594
01:33:00,920 --> 01:33:01,820
part of that

6595
01:33:01,820 --> 01:33:02,340
reputational

6596
01:33:02,340 --> 01:33:02,780
business

6597
01:33:02,780 --> 01:33:03,380
like in

6598
01:33:03,380 --> 01:33:03,820
science

6599
01:33:03,820 --> 01:33:05,140
where's

6600
01:33:05,140 --> 01:33:05,500
your data

6601
01:33:05,500 --> 01:33:05,840
you're not

6602
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:06,220
providing

6603
01:33:06,220 --> 01:33:06,620
your data

6604
01:33:06,620 --> 01:33:07,100
why the

6605
01:33:07,100 --> 01:33:07,500
hell should

6606
01:33:07,500 --> 01:33:07,800
I take

6607
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:07,960
this

6608
01:33:07,960 --> 01:33:08,420
seriously

6609
01:33:08,420 --> 01:33:10,020
is that

6610
01:33:10,020 --> 01:33:11,600
now that

6611
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:12,300
we can

6612
01:33:12,300 --> 01:33:12,720
publish on

6613
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:12,980
the internet

6614
01:33:12,980 --> 01:33:13,380
now that

6615
01:33:13,380 --> 01:33:13,660
there is

6616
01:33:13,660 --> 01:33:14,080
physically

6617
01:33:14,080 --> 01:33:14,580
room for

6618
01:33:14,580 --> 01:33:14,860
data

6619
01:33:14,860 --> 01:33:15,120
in a

6620
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:15,380
newspaper

6621
01:33:15,380 --> 01:33:15,660
there's

6622
01:33:15,660 --> 01:33:15,800
not

6623
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:16,160
physically

6624
01:33:16,160 --> 01:33:16,460
room

6625
01:33:16,460 --> 01:33:16,720
for the

6626
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:16,940
primary

6627
01:33:16,940 --> 01:33:17,200
source

6628
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:17,560
now there's

6629
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:17,980
physically

6630
01:33:17,980 --> 01:33:18,400
room for

6631
01:33:18,400 --> 01:33:18,760
the primary

6632
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:19,200
source

6633
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:21,240
it should

6634
01:33:21,240 --> 01:33:21,660
be there

6635
01:33:21,660 --> 01:33:21,940
and we

6636
01:33:21,940 --> 01:33:22,280
should create

6637
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:22,760
a standard

6638
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:23,100
that it

6639
01:33:23,100 --> 01:33:23,360
should be

6640
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:23,640
there

6641
01:33:23,640 --> 01:33:24,360
and sure

6642
01:33:24,360 --> 01:33:24,820
people can

6643
01:33:24,820 --> 01:33:25,340
deviate from

6644
01:33:25,340 --> 01:33:25,820
this standard

6645
01:33:25,820 --> 01:33:26,720
but then

6646
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:27,580
we're deviating

6647
01:33:27,580 --> 01:33:27,860
from the

6648
01:33:27,860 --> 01:33:28,060
standard

6649
01:33:28,060 --> 01:33:28,760
if you can't

6650
01:33:28,760 --> 01:33:29,260
be bothered

6651
01:33:29,260 --> 01:33:30,600
providing us

6652
01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:30,900
with the

6653
01:33:30,900 --> 01:33:31,440
primary source

6654
01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:31,780
data

6655
01:33:31,780 --> 01:33:33,120
why should

6656
01:33:33,120 --> 01:33:33,520
we pay

6657
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:34,000
any attention

6658
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:34,320
to what

6659
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:34,740
you're writing

6660
01:33:34,740 --> 01:33:36,560
you're not

6661
01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:37,000
treating a

6662
01:33:37,000 --> 01:33:37,380
reader with

6663
01:33:37,380 --> 01:33:37,880
respect

6664
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:39,520
it's not

6665
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:40,240
falsifiable

6666
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:40,920
therefore

6667
01:33:40,920 --> 01:33:43,620
we pay no

6668
01:33:43,620 --> 01:33:44,100
attention to

6669
01:33:44,100 --> 01:33:44,760
it

6670
01:33:44,760 --> 01:33:48,700
the issue

6671
01:33:48,700 --> 01:33:49,400
of reputation

6672
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:50,460
I guess that's

6673
01:33:50,460 --> 01:33:50,880
an important

6674
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:51,560
issue actually

6675
01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:52,720
how do things

6676
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:53,360
have reputation

6677
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:54,480
part of the

6678
01:33:54,480 --> 01:33:55,200
ways they have

6679
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:55,680
reputation

6680
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:57,060
is by this

6681
01:33:57,060 --> 01:33:59,120
coupling of

6682
01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,120
something happens

6683
01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:01,880
someone else

6684
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:02,400
says something

6685
01:34:02,400 --> 01:34:02,800
about it

6686
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:03,200
someone else

6687
01:34:03,200 --> 01:34:03,600
says something

6688
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:04,300
about that

6689
01:34:04,300 --> 01:34:05,380
etc

6690
01:34:05,380 --> 01:34:05,900
and this is

6691
01:34:05,900 --> 01:34:06,700
this series

6692
01:34:06,700 --> 01:34:07,760
of citations

6693
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:09,580
as information

6694
01:34:09,580 --> 01:34:10,240
flows from one

6695
01:34:10,240 --> 01:34:10,960
person to another

6696
01:34:10,960 --> 01:34:11,380
and they

6697
01:34:11,380 --> 01:34:12,640
augment and so on

6698
01:34:12,640 --> 01:34:13,380
and for that

6699
01:34:13,380 --> 01:34:14,160
to be strong

6700
01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:15,460
you need this

6701
01:34:15,460 --> 01:34:16,900
naming system

6702
01:34:16,900 --> 01:34:18,280
where

6703
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:19,400
what you're

6704
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:20,220
relying on

6705
01:34:20,220 --> 01:34:21,160
is not some

6706
01:34:21,160 --> 01:34:21,660
start-up

6707
01:34:21,660 --> 01:34:22,260
website that

6708
01:34:22,260 --> 01:34:22,780
disappears

6709
01:34:22,780 --> 01:34:23,480
tomorrow

6710
01:34:23,480 --> 01:34:24,760
or some

6711
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:25,300
company that

6712
01:34:25,300 --> 01:34:25,840
didn't like

6713
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:26,320
it and

6714
01:34:26,320 --> 01:34:27,240
has modified

6715
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:28,480
it or

6716
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:28,780
it's been

6717
01:34:28,780 --> 01:34:29,200
sued out

6718
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:29,660
of existence

6719
01:34:29,660 --> 01:34:31,280
so that

6720
01:34:31,280 --> 01:34:31,860
I think

6721
01:34:31,860 --> 01:34:32,640
would help

6722
01:34:32,640 --> 01:34:33,340
with reputation

6723
01:34:33,340 --> 01:34:35,460
complexity

6724
01:34:35,460 --> 01:34:36,180
is harder

6725
01:34:36,180 --> 01:34:37,020
I think that

6726
01:34:37,020 --> 01:34:37,420
is a big

6727
01:34:37,420 --> 01:34:37,820
problem

6728
01:34:37,820 --> 01:34:39,020
so

6729
01:34:39,020 --> 01:34:40,820
when things

6730
01:34:40,820 --> 01:34:41,240
become

6731
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,080
open

6732
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:43,920
they start

6733
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:44,300
to become

6734
01:34:44,300 --> 01:34:45,000
more complex

6735
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:45,440
because people

6736
01:34:45,440 --> 01:34:46,320
start hiding

6737
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:47,300
what they're

6738
01:34:47,300 --> 01:34:47,600
doing

6739
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:48,220
their bad

6740
01:34:48,220 --> 01:34:48,740
behaviour

6741
01:34:48,740 --> 01:34:51,440
through

6742
01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:51,960
complexity

6743
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:52,760
and so

6744
01:34:52,760 --> 01:34:53,240
that will

6745
01:34:53,240 --> 01:34:53,500
be

6746
01:34:53,500 --> 01:34:54,200
bureaucratic

6747
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:54,940
doublespeak

6748
01:34:54,940 --> 01:34:55,380
as an

6749
01:34:55,380 --> 01:34:55,820
example

6750
01:34:55,820 --> 01:34:57,640
when things

6751
01:34:57,640 --> 01:34:57,800
get

6752
01:34:57,800 --> 01:34:58,720
bureaucratised

6753
01:34:58,720 --> 01:34:59,540
and everything

6754
01:34:59,540 --> 01:34:59,920
becomes

6755
01:34:59,920 --> 01:35:00,640
mealy-mouthed

6756
01:35:00,640 --> 01:35:01,080
and so on

6757
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:01,620
so that's

6758
01:35:01,620 --> 01:35:02,360
a cost

6759
01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:03,000
of openness

6760
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:05,480
is that

6761
01:35:05,480 --> 01:35:06,480
kind of

6762
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:08,060
bureaucratisation

6763
01:35:08,060 --> 01:35:09,180
and the

6764
01:35:09,180 --> 01:35:09,800
offshore sector

6765
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:10,080
you see

6766
01:35:10,080 --> 01:35:10,620
incredible

6767
01:35:10,620 --> 01:35:11,960
complexity

6768
01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:14,100
in the layers

6769
01:35:14,100 --> 01:35:14,520
of things

6770
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:15,040
happening to

6771
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:15,320
each other

6772
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:15,960
so they become

6773
01:35:15,960 --> 01:35:16,640
impenetrable

6774
01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:18,060
and of course

6775
01:35:18,060 --> 01:35:18,620
cryptography

6776
01:35:18,620 --> 01:35:20,060
is an

6777
01:35:20,060 --> 01:35:21,340
intellectual

6778
01:35:21,340 --> 01:35:22,360
system

6779
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:22,920
which has

6780
01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:23,860
specialised

6781
01:35:23,860 --> 01:35:24,260
in making

6782
01:35:24,260 --> 01:35:24,820
things as

6783
01:35:24,820 --> 01:35:25,240
complex

6784
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:26,360
as possible

6785
01:35:26,360 --> 01:35:28,680
those things

6786
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:29,260
are hard

6787
01:35:29,260 --> 01:35:29,780
to attack

6788
01:35:29,780 --> 01:35:30,100
on the

6789
01:35:30,100 --> 01:35:30,740
other hand

6790
01:35:30,740 --> 01:35:32,220
complex

6791
01:35:32,220 --> 01:35:32,740
systems

6792
01:35:32,740 --> 01:35:33,220
are also

6793
01:35:33,220 --> 01:35:33,680
hard to

6794
01:35:33,680 --> 01:35:34,020
use

6795
01:35:34,020 --> 01:35:34,980
so

6796
01:35:34,980 --> 01:35:37,020
bureaucracies

6797
01:35:37,020 --> 01:35:38,060
and internal

6798
01:35:38,060 --> 01:35:38,660
communication

6799
01:35:38,660 --> 01:35:39,300
systems

6800
01:35:39,300 --> 01:35:39,880
which are

6801
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:40,940
which have

6802
01:35:40,940 --> 01:35:41,260
this

6803
01:35:41,260 --> 01:35:43,280
that are

6804
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:43,580
full of

6805
01:35:43,580 --> 01:35:43,880
weasel

6806
01:35:43,880 --> 01:35:44,300
words

6807
01:35:44,300 --> 01:35:44,560
and

6808
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:45,120
ass

6809
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:45,540
covering

6810
01:35:45,540 --> 01:35:47,080
are

6811
01:35:47,080 --> 01:35:47,540
inefficient

6812
01:35:47,540 --> 01:35:48,540
internal

6813
01:35:48,540 --> 01:35:49,140
communication

6814
01:35:49,140 --> 01:35:49,740
systems

6815
01:35:49,740 --> 01:35:50,680
and

6816
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:51,360
similarly

6817
01:35:51,360 --> 01:35:52,640
those

6818
01:35:52,640 --> 01:35:53,280
tremendously

6819
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:53,920
complex

6820
01:35:53,920 --> 01:35:54,260
offshore

6821
01:35:54,260 --> 01:35:54,740
structuring

6822
01:35:54,740 --> 01:35:55,180
arrangements

6823
01:35:55,180 --> 01:35:55,960
are actually

6824
01:35:55,960 --> 01:35:56,420
inefficient

6825
01:35:56,420 --> 01:35:58,380
so

6826
01:35:58,380 --> 01:35:58,860
maybe

6827
01:35:58,860 --> 01:36:00,340
you're ahead

6828
01:36:00,340 --> 01:36:00,680
when the

6829
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:01,160
tax regime

6830
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:01,680
is high

6831
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:02,000
if the

6832
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:02,440
tax regime

6833
01:36:02,440 --> 01:36:02,900
was zero

6834
01:36:02,900 --> 01:36:03,220
you're not

6835
01:36:03,220 --> 01:36:03,500
going to

6836
01:36:03,500 --> 01:36:03,780
be ahead

6837
01:36:03,780 --> 01:36:04,140
at all

6838
01:36:04,140 --> 01:36:04,980
sorry

6839
01:36:04,980 --> 01:36:05,460
if the

6840
01:36:05,460 --> 01:36:05,800
tax regime

6841
01:36:05,800 --> 01:36:06,500
was 3%

6842
01:36:06,500 --> 01:36:07,300
you're not

6843
01:36:07,300 --> 01:36:07,560
going to

6844
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:07,840
be ahead

6845
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:08,160
at all

6846
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:08,520
actually

6847
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:08,840
you're going

6848
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:09,520
to be choked

6849
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:10,380
by the

6850
01:36:10,380 --> 01:36:10,800
complexity

6851
01:36:10,800 --> 01:36:11,880
so

6852
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:13,080
well if they

6853
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:13,700
weren't inefficient

6854
01:36:13,700 --> 01:36:14,340
then everybody

6855
01:36:14,340 --> 01:36:15,160
would be not

6856
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:15,420
sure

6857
01:36:15,420 --> 01:36:16,820
yeah that's

6858
01:36:16,820 --> 01:36:17,060
right

6859
01:36:17,060 --> 01:36:17,560
that's

6860
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:17,980
right

6861
01:36:17,980 --> 01:36:18,700
yeah that is

6862
01:36:18,700 --> 01:36:19,020
a joke

6863
01:36:19,020 --> 01:36:19,240
but it's

6864
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:19,700
probably true

6865
01:36:19,700 --> 01:36:20,000
no that's

6866
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:20,280
true

6867
01:36:20,280 --> 01:36:22,100
let me

6868
01:36:22,100 --> 01:36:22,860
just add

6869
01:36:22,860 --> 01:36:23,340
the

6870
01:36:23,340 --> 01:36:24,560
so there's

6871
01:36:24,560 --> 01:36:25,100
a battle

6872
01:36:25,100 --> 01:36:25,520
between

6873
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:26,080
all the

6874
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:26,560
all these

6875
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:27,080
things going

6876
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:27,500
on

6877
01:36:27,500 --> 01:36:30,040
with different

6878
01:36:30,040 --> 01:36:31,220
people

6879
01:36:31,220 --> 01:36:31,680
economic

6880
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:32,160
different

6881
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:33,780
see I don't

6882
01:36:33,780 --> 01:36:34,520
see a difference

6883
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:35,240
between government

6884
01:36:35,240 --> 01:36:36,540
and big corporations

6885
01:36:36,540 --> 01:36:37,580
and small corporations

6886
01:36:37,580 --> 01:36:38,300
actually this is all

6887
01:36:38,300 --> 01:36:38,880
one continuum

6888
01:36:38,880 --> 01:36:39,440
these are all

6889
01:36:39,440 --> 01:36:39,900
systems

6890
01:36:39,900 --> 01:36:41,260
that are trying

6891
01:36:41,260 --> 01:36:42,800
to get as much

6892
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:43,240
power

6893
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:44,200
as possible

6894
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:45,860
so

6895
01:36:45,860 --> 01:36:46,780
that's what

6896
01:36:46,780 --> 01:36:47,240
they are

6897
01:36:47,240 --> 01:36:48,120
a general

6898
01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:48,920
is trying to get

6899
01:36:48,920 --> 01:36:49,480
as much power

6900
01:36:49,480 --> 01:36:50,220
for his section

6901
01:36:50,220 --> 01:36:50,700
of the army

6902
01:36:50,700 --> 01:36:51,260
so

6903
01:36:51,260 --> 01:36:53,020
they advertise

6904
01:36:53,020 --> 01:36:54,400
they produce

6905
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:55,040
something that they

6906
01:36:55,040 --> 01:36:55,840
claim is a product

6907
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:56,600
people buy it

6908
01:36:56,600 --> 01:36:57,520
people don't buy it

6909
01:36:57,520 --> 01:36:59,600
they complexify

6910
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:00,420
in order to hide

6911
01:37:00,420 --> 01:37:00,640
their

6912
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:01,300
hide

6913
01:37:01,300 --> 01:37:03,160
the flaws

6914
01:37:03,160 --> 01:37:03,920
in their product

6915
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:04,540
and they spin

6916
01:37:04,540 --> 01:37:06,580
so I don't see

6917
01:37:06,580 --> 01:37:07,180
a big difference

6918
01:37:07,180 --> 01:37:07,880
between government

6919
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:08,920
and non-government

6920
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:11,580
actors in that way

6921
01:37:11,580 --> 01:37:12,740
there is one difference

6922
01:37:12,740 --> 01:37:13,400
about deployment

6923
01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:14,320
of coercive force

6924
01:37:14,320 --> 01:37:14,580
but

6925
01:37:14,580 --> 01:37:15,820
even there

6926
01:37:15,820 --> 01:37:16,720
we see that

6927
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,420
well-connected

6928
01:37:19,420 --> 01:37:20,060
corporations

6929
01:37:20,060 --> 01:37:21,260
are able to

6930
01:37:21,260 --> 01:37:21,960
tap into the

6931
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:22,900
governmental system

6932
01:37:22,900 --> 01:37:23,600
and the court

6933
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:24,000
system

6934
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:24,540
and are able

6935
01:37:24,540 --> 01:37:24,980
to deploy

6936
01:37:24,980 --> 01:37:25,520
effectively

6937
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:26,440
deploy coercive

6938
01:37:26,440 --> 01:37:26,840
force

6939
01:37:26,840 --> 01:37:27,760
by sending

6940
01:37:27,760 --> 01:37:28,500
police to

6941
01:37:28,500 --> 01:37:29,080
do debt

6942
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:30,560
requisition

6943
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:32,120
or taking

6944
01:37:32,120 --> 01:37:32,520
employees

6945
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:33,120
out of the office

6946
01:37:33,120 --> 01:37:34,840
can I just ask you

6947
01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:35,400
about that same

6948
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:35,620
thing

6949
01:37:35,620 --> 01:37:36,420
but sort of

6950
01:37:36,420 --> 01:37:36,920
in reverse

6951
01:37:36,920 --> 01:37:37,440
which is the

6952
01:37:37,440 --> 01:37:38,560
ways in which

6953
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:39,100
the sources

6954
01:37:39,100 --> 01:37:39,800
of information

6955
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:40,660
as individuals

6956
01:37:40,660 --> 01:37:42,500
can and can

6957
01:37:42,500 --> 01:37:43,340
be protected

6958
01:37:43,340 --> 01:37:44,300
in other words

6959
01:37:44,300 --> 01:37:44,680
how their

6960
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:45,160
information

6961
01:37:45,160 --> 01:37:45,780
can be

6962
01:37:45,780 --> 01:37:46,360
anonymous

6963
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:47,440
so that

6964
01:37:47,440 --> 01:37:47,960
they don't

6965
01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:49,400
pay a price

6966
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:51,000
for circulating

6967
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:51,400
it

6968
01:37:51,400 --> 01:37:51,740
I mean

6969
01:37:51,740 --> 01:37:53,200
maybe with

6970
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:53,760
one example

6971
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:56,280
from North Korea

6972
01:37:56,280 --> 01:37:56,900
or Iran

6973
01:37:56,900 --> 01:37:57,620
and one example

6974
01:37:57,620 --> 01:37:58,880
from the US

6975
01:37:58,880 --> 01:37:59,540
and the differences

6976
01:37:59,540 --> 01:38:00,060
between

6977
01:38:00,060 --> 01:38:01,520
those two scenarios

6978
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:08,580
there's many ways

6979
01:38:08,580 --> 01:38:09,000
for people

6980
01:38:09,000 --> 01:38:10,320
to transmit

6981
01:38:10,320 --> 01:38:10,880
things

6982
01:38:10,880 --> 01:38:11,900
anonymously

6983
01:38:11,900 --> 01:38:16,060
one of the

6984
01:38:16,060 --> 01:38:16,880
greatest difficulties

6985
01:38:16,880 --> 01:38:18,820
for sources

6986
01:38:18,820 --> 01:38:19,800
is their proximity

6987
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:20,600
to the material

6988
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,660
so if they have

6989
01:38:22,660 --> 01:38:23,320
high proximity

6990
01:38:23,320 --> 01:38:23,880
to it

6991
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:24,340
and it's

6992
01:38:24,340 --> 01:38:25,080
a limited number

6993
01:38:25,080 --> 01:38:25,420
of people

6994
01:38:25,420 --> 01:38:27,200
it actually

6995
01:38:27,200 --> 01:38:28,080
doesn't matter

6996
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:28,680
what technical

6997
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:29,120
mechanism

6998
01:38:29,120 --> 01:38:29,740
you then apply

6999
01:38:29,740 --> 01:38:30,220
up top

7000
01:38:30,220 --> 01:38:30,620
it would be

7001
01:38:30,620 --> 01:38:31,280
quite difficult

7002
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:33,380
for them

7003
01:38:33,380 --> 01:38:34,180
to evade

7004
01:38:34,180 --> 01:38:34,700
scrutiny

7005
01:38:34,700 --> 01:38:35,600
and it doesn't

7006
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:36,020
matter what

7007
01:38:36,020 --> 01:38:36,860
country or regime

7008
01:38:36,860 --> 01:38:37,320
you're in

7009
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:37,940
but

7010
01:38:37,940 --> 01:38:40,340
systematic

7011
01:38:40,340 --> 01:38:41,680
injustice

7012
01:38:41,680 --> 01:38:43,260
by

7013
01:38:43,260 --> 01:38:44,680
definition

7014
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:45,180
is going

7015
01:38:45,180 --> 01:38:45,560
to have to

7016
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:46,020
involve many

7017
01:38:46,020 --> 01:38:46,380
people

7018
01:38:46,380 --> 01:38:47,980
and so

7019
01:38:47,980 --> 01:38:52,120
while the

7020
01:38:52,120 --> 01:38:53,040
inner sanctum

7021
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:53,660
of cabinet

7022
01:38:53,660 --> 01:38:54,560
maybe you

7023
01:38:54,560 --> 01:38:55,100
can't safely

7024
01:38:55,100 --> 01:38:56,560
get records

7025
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:57,220
out of this

7026
01:38:57,220 --> 01:38:59,260
but as

7027
01:38:59,260 --> 01:38:59,900
those decisions

7028
01:38:59,900 --> 01:39:00,620
start spreading

7029
01:39:00,620 --> 01:39:01,440
down to

7030
01:39:01,440 --> 01:39:02,200
lower levels

7031
01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:03,780
if they are

7032
01:39:03,780 --> 01:39:04,180
to affect

7033
01:39:04,180 --> 01:39:04,940
many people

7034
01:39:04,940 --> 01:39:06,240
many people

7035
01:39:06,240 --> 01:39:07,140
must actually

7036
01:39:07,140 --> 01:39:08,100
have either

7037
01:39:08,100 --> 01:39:09,320
the high level

7038
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:09,820
planning

7039
01:39:09,820 --> 01:39:11,980
that produces

7040
01:39:11,980 --> 01:39:12,380
some

7041
01:39:12,380 --> 01:39:13,140
unjust

7042
01:39:13,140 --> 01:39:13,860
consequence

7043
01:39:13,860 --> 01:39:16,060
or the

7044
01:39:16,060 --> 01:39:16,380
shadow

7045
01:39:16,380 --> 01:39:16,400
or the shadow

7046
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:16,840
of it

7047
01:39:16,840 --> 01:39:18,020
so

7048
01:39:18,020 --> 01:39:19,840
maybe the

7049
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:20,320
whole plan

7050
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:20,960
isn't visible

7051
01:39:20,960 --> 01:39:22,260
by the time

7052
01:39:22,260 --> 01:39:22,760
it gets down

7053
01:39:22,760 --> 01:39:23,500
to the

7054
01:39:23,500 --> 01:39:23,880
grounds

7055
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:25,120
but some

7056
01:39:25,120 --> 01:39:27,020
component

7057
01:39:27,020 --> 01:39:27,500
of it

7058
01:39:27,500 --> 01:39:28,000
is visible

7059
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:29,300
and this

7060
01:39:29,300 --> 01:39:31,100
struck me

7061
01:39:31,100 --> 01:39:31,760
when we

7062
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:33,440
got hold

7063
01:39:33,440 --> 01:39:33,980
of the

7064
01:39:33,980 --> 01:39:35,360
two main

7065
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:35,780
manuals

7066
01:39:35,780 --> 01:39:36,420
for Guantanamo

7067
01:39:36,420 --> 01:39:36,800
Bay

7068
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:38,040
so the

7069
01:39:38,040 --> 01:39:39,680
2003

7070
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:41,260
manual was

7071
01:39:41,260 --> 01:39:41,580
the first

7072
01:39:41,580 --> 01:39:41,940
one we got

7073
01:39:41,940 --> 01:39:42,440
hold of

7074
01:39:42,440 --> 01:39:43,000
written by

7075
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:45,000
General

7076
01:39:45,000 --> 01:39:45,560
Jeffrey Miller

7077
01:39:45,560 --> 01:39:47,380
who subsequently

7078
01:39:47,380 --> 01:39:48,020
went over to

7079
01:39:48,020 --> 01:39:48,480
Abergrave

7080
01:39:48,480 --> 01:39:49,240
to

7081
01:39:49,240 --> 01:39:50,420
Gitmoizet

7082
01:39:50,420 --> 01:39:52,360
as Donald

7083
01:39:52,360 --> 01:39:52,800
Rumsfeld

7084
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:53,700
called it

7085
01:39:53,700 --> 01:39:54,740
so

7086
01:39:54,740 --> 01:39:55,760
that manual

7087
01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:56,140
had all

7088
01:39:56,140 --> 01:39:56,460
sorts of

7089
01:39:56,460 --> 01:39:56,780
abuses

7090
01:39:56,780 --> 01:39:57,200
in it

7091
01:39:57,200 --> 01:39:58,980
and

7092
01:39:58,980 --> 01:40:00,040
one of

7093
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:00,580
the ones

7094
01:40:00,580 --> 01:40:01,800
that I

7095
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:02,120
was

7096
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:03,220
surprised

7097
01:40:03,220 --> 01:40:03,680
to see

7098
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:04,740
was

7099
01:40:04,740 --> 01:40:05,340
explicit

7100
01:40:05,340 --> 01:40:06,080
instructions

7101
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:07,240
to

7102
01:40:07,240 --> 01:40:08,640
falsify

7103
01:40:08,640 --> 01:40:09,160
records

7104
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:09,460
for the

7105
01:40:09,460 --> 01:40:09,960
Red Cross

7106
01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:12,580
so

7107
01:40:12,580 --> 01:40:13,780
and

7108
01:40:13,780 --> 01:40:14,980
how many

7109
01:40:14,980 --> 01:40:15,280
people

7110
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:15,560
had read

7111
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:16,060
this manual

7112
01:40:16,060 --> 01:40:16,920
this was

7113
01:40:16,920 --> 01:40:18,080
all the

7114
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:19,720
prison captains

7115
01:40:19,720 --> 01:40:20,780
at Guantanamo

7116
01:40:20,780 --> 01:40:20,960
Bay

7117
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:21,320
had read

7118
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:21,620
this

7119
01:40:21,620 --> 01:40:22,380
and

7120
01:40:22,380 --> 01:40:26,720
why

7121
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:27,260
why would

7122
01:40:27,260 --> 01:40:27,520
you

7123
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:28,580
risk

7124
01:40:28,580 --> 01:40:30,840
telling

7125
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:31,040
the

7126
01:40:31,040 --> 01:40:31,440
grunts

7127
01:40:31,440 --> 01:40:32,400
this sort

7128
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:32,480
of

7129
01:40:32,480 --> 01:40:32,980
information

7130
01:40:32,980 --> 01:40:34,400
it was

7131
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:34,800
only

7132
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:35,400
wasn't even

7133
01:40:35,400 --> 01:40:35,860
classified

7134
01:40:35,860 --> 01:40:37,480
they made

7135
01:40:37,480 --> 01:40:38,840
it unclassified

7136
01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:39,940
for official use

7137
01:40:39,940 --> 01:40:40,280
only

7138
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:41,980
why

7139
01:40:41,980 --> 01:40:42,800
because

7140
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:43,460
they

7141
01:40:43,460 --> 01:40:44,000
it's more

7142
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:44,460
expensive

7143
01:40:44,460 --> 01:40:45,140
to get

7144
01:40:45,140 --> 01:40:45,680
people who have

7145
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:46,260
classifications

7146
01:40:46,260 --> 01:40:46,500
in

7147
01:40:46,500 --> 01:40:46,720
so

7148
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:47,640
you want to

7149
01:40:47,640 --> 01:40:48,060
hire all these

7150
01:40:48,060 --> 01:40:48,480
contractors

7151
01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:48,780
without

7152
01:40:48,780 --> 01:40:49,420
classifications

7153
01:40:49,420 --> 01:40:49,920
it's cheaper

7154
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:52,940
well

7155
01:40:52,940 --> 01:40:54,200
you can't

7156
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:54,740
you can't

7157
01:40:54,740 --> 01:40:55,360
you can't

7158
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:56,340
whisper to the

7159
01:40:56,340 --> 01:40:56,920
coal face

7160
01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:57,400
you can't

7161
01:40:57,400 --> 01:40:57,640
have the

7162
01:40:57,640 --> 01:40:57,980
president

7163
01:40:57,980 --> 01:40:58,740
whispering to

7164
01:40:58,740 --> 01:40:59,480
the coal face

7165
01:40:59,480 --> 01:41:01,560
because the

7166
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:02,040
coal face is

7167
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:02,420
too big

7168
01:41:02,420 --> 01:41:03,140
you can't

7169
01:41:03,140 --> 01:41:03,360
have the

7170
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:03,680
president

7171
01:41:03,680 --> 01:41:04,380
whispering

7172
01:41:04,380 --> 01:41:05,340
to the

7173
01:41:05,340 --> 01:41:06,160
intermediaries

7174
01:41:06,160 --> 01:41:07,340
because

7175
01:41:07,340 --> 01:41:08,300
then you end

7176
01:41:08,300 --> 01:41:08,540
up with

7177
01:41:08,540 --> 01:41:08,860
Chinese

7178
01:41:08,860 --> 01:41:09,300
whispers

7179
01:41:09,300 --> 01:41:10,340
and it

7180
01:41:10,340 --> 01:41:10,600
means your

7181
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:11,020
instructions

7182
01:41:11,020 --> 01:41:11,300
aren't

7183
01:41:11,300 --> 01:41:11,720
carried out

7184
01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:11,920
so

7185
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:12,620
if you

7186
01:41:12,620 --> 01:41:12,980
if you

7187
01:41:12,980 --> 01:41:13,340
take

7188
01:41:13,340 --> 01:41:14,920
information

7189
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:15,520
off paper

7190
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:15,760
if you

7191
01:41:15,760 --> 01:41:16,080
take it

7192
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:16,540
outside an

7193
01:41:16,540 --> 01:41:16,840
electronic

7194
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:18,220
or physical

7195
01:41:18,220 --> 01:41:18,900
paper trail

7196
01:41:18,900 --> 01:41:22,860
instructions

7197
01:41:22,860 --> 01:41:23,300
decay

7198
01:41:23,300 --> 01:41:25,100
and that's

7199
01:41:25,100 --> 01:41:25,640
why all

7200
01:41:25,640 --> 01:41:26,820
organisations

7201
01:41:26,820 --> 01:41:27,260
of any

7202
01:41:27,260 --> 01:41:27,640
scale

7203
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:28,200
have

7204
01:41:28,200 --> 01:41:29,140
rigorous

7205
01:41:29,140 --> 01:41:32,860
paper

7206
01:41:32,860 --> 01:41:33,300
trails

7207
01:41:33,300 --> 01:41:34,320
for the

7208
01:41:34,320 --> 01:41:34,760
instructions

7209
01:41:34,760 --> 01:41:35,300
from the

7210
01:41:35,300 --> 01:41:35,660
leadership

7211
01:41:35,660 --> 01:41:39,280
but by

7212
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:39,800
definition

7213
01:41:39,800 --> 01:41:40,880
if you

7214
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:41,500
try and

7215
01:41:41,500 --> 01:41:41,800
get a lot

7216
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:42,120
of people

7217
01:41:42,120 --> 01:41:42,480
to do

7218
01:41:42,480 --> 01:41:42,860
something

7219
01:41:42,860 --> 01:41:43,960
you're going

7220
01:41:43,960 --> 01:41:44,320
to have

7221
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:44,740
to have

7222
01:41:44,740 --> 01:41:45,560
those

7223
01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:45,960
form of

7224
01:41:45,960 --> 01:41:46,440
instructions

7225
01:41:46,440 --> 01:41:47,320
which means

7226
01:41:47,320 --> 01:41:47,640
there is

7227
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:48,060
always going

7228
01:41:48,060 --> 01:41:48,360
to be a

7229
01:41:48,360 --> 01:41:48,880
paper trail

7230
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:50,340
except for

7231
01:41:50,340 --> 01:41:51,860
small group

7232
01:41:51,860 --> 01:41:52,320
decisions

7233
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:54,020
small group

7234
01:41:54,020 --> 01:41:54,400
decisions

7235
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:55,040
that don't

7236
01:41:55,040 --> 01:41:55,560
end up

7237
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:56,000
going to

7238
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:56,140
the

7239
01:41:56,140 --> 01:41:56,740
coalface

7240
01:41:56,740 --> 01:41:58,240
and instructing

7241
01:41:58,240 --> 01:41:59,420
hundreds of

7242
01:41:59,420 --> 01:41:59,780
people

7243
01:41:59,780 --> 01:42:01,500
are they so

7244
01:42:01,500 --> 01:42:01,900
important

7245
01:42:01,900 --> 01:42:02,220
in the

7246
01:42:02,220 --> 01:42:02,600
scheme of

7247
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:02,740
things

7248
01:42:02,740 --> 01:42:04,680
and they're

7249
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:05,180
in the

7250
01:42:05,180 --> 01:42:06,600
place where

7251
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:07,080
they signed

7252
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:07,580
the final

7253
01:42:07,580 --> 01:42:08,040
order

7254
01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:15,020
and these

7255
01:42:15,020 --> 01:42:15,500
are Germans

7256
01:42:15,500 --> 01:42:16,100
so they

7257
01:42:16,100 --> 01:42:16,500
documented

7258
01:42:16,500 --> 01:42:17,000
everything

7259
01:42:17,000 --> 01:42:18,620
so it's

7260
01:42:18,620 --> 01:42:19,280
exactly your

7261
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:19,640
point

7262
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:20,900
in order to

7263
01:42:20,900 --> 01:42:21,720
kill 6 million

7264
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:22,060
Jews

7265
01:42:22,060 --> 01:42:22,660
you have to

7266
01:42:22,660 --> 01:42:23,180
actually write

7267
01:42:23,180 --> 01:42:23,500
down

7268
01:42:23,500 --> 01:42:24,900
it's a big

7269
01:42:24,900 --> 01:42:25,320
logistical

7270
01:42:25,320 --> 01:42:25,800
process

7271
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:43,860
this is one

7272
01:42:43,860 --> 01:42:44,560
of the first

7273
01:42:44,560 --> 01:42:45,000
things

7274
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:46,200
sort of

7275
01:42:46,200 --> 01:42:46,560
internal

7276
01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:47,160
arguments

7277
01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:47,580
I had

7278
01:42:47,580 --> 01:42:47,840
with other

7279
01:42:47,840 --> 01:42:48,140
people

7280
01:42:48,140 --> 01:42:49,080
in 2006

7281
01:42:49,080 --> 01:42:50,600
well okay

7282
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:52,200
you have a

7283
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:52,720
good get

7284
01:42:52,720 --> 01:42:54,080
you expose

7285
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:55,460
some

7286
01:42:55,460 --> 01:42:56,120
organisation

7287
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:57,040
and show

7288
01:42:57,040 --> 01:42:57,320
it's been

7289
01:42:57,320 --> 01:42:57,640
abusing

7290
01:42:57,640 --> 01:42:58,100
something in

7291
01:42:58,100 --> 01:42:58,600
some way

7292
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:00,000
and it just

7293
01:43:00,000 --> 01:43:00,480
takes everything

7294
01:43:00,480 --> 01:43:00,960
off paper

7295
01:43:00,960 --> 01:43:02,060
for the next

7296
01:43:02,060 --> 01:43:02,700
thing it does

7297
01:43:02,700 --> 01:43:04,340
can't they just

7298
01:43:04,340 --> 01:43:04,740
take everything

7299
01:43:04,740 --> 01:43:05,900
go to oral

7300
01:43:05,900 --> 01:43:06,460
forms

7301
01:43:06,460 --> 01:43:08,760
it's not

7302
01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:09,080
going to

7303
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:09,320
happen

7304
01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:09,860
because

7305
01:43:09,860 --> 01:43:10,660
if it

7306
01:43:10,660 --> 01:43:11,640
does go

7307
01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:12,200
that way

7308
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:12,880
fine

7309
01:43:12,880 --> 01:43:13,800
they take

7310
01:43:13,800 --> 01:43:14,100
everything

7311
01:43:14,100 --> 01:43:14,560
off paper

7312
01:43:14,560 --> 01:43:14,860
if they

7313
01:43:14,860 --> 01:43:15,260
internally

7314
01:43:15,260 --> 01:43:16,160
vulcanise

7315
01:43:16,160 --> 01:43:18,320
so information

7316
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:18,880
can't be

7317
01:43:18,880 --> 01:43:19,980
leaked

7318
01:43:19,980 --> 01:43:21,520
what is

7319
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:22,500
the cost

7320
01:43:22,500 --> 01:43:23,340
it's a

7321
01:43:23,340 --> 01:43:23,700
tremendous

7322
01:43:23,700 --> 01:43:24,280
cost to

7323
01:43:24,280 --> 01:43:24,980
the

7324
01:43:24,980 --> 01:43:25,920
organisational

7325
01:43:25,920 --> 01:43:26,520
efficiency

7326
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:28,120
of doing

7327
01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:28,420
that

7328
01:43:28,420 --> 01:43:29,880
and that

7329
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:30,440
means this

7330
01:43:30,440 --> 01:43:31,400
abusive

7331
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:32,080
organisation

7332
01:43:32,080 --> 01:43:33,800
simply

7333
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:34,640
becomes

7334
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:35,280
less

7335
01:43:35,280 --> 01:43:36,000
powerful

7336
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:37,340
in its

7337
01:43:37,340 --> 01:43:37,760
struggle

7338
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:39,400
for economic

7339
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:40,060
equilibrium

7340
01:43:40,060 --> 01:43:40,820
and political

7341
01:43:40,820 --> 01:43:41,420
equilibrium

7342
01:43:41,420 --> 01:43:41,980
with all

7343
01:43:41,980 --> 01:43:42,200
other

7344
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:42,780
organisations

7345
01:43:42,780 --> 01:43:43,560
this is the

7346
01:43:43,560 --> 01:43:44,060
inverse of

7347
01:43:44,060 --> 01:43:44,520
your argument

7348
01:43:44,520 --> 01:43:45,240
about empowering

7349
01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:46,880
the dissidents

7350
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:47,420
in Egypt

7351
01:43:47,420 --> 01:43:49,000
they need

7352
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:49,240
a bit

7353
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:50,140
to communicate

7354
01:43:50,140 --> 01:43:51,680
your argument

7355
01:43:51,680 --> 01:43:53,160
by stopping

7356
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:56,240
the inability

7357
01:43:56,240 --> 01:43:57,480
to coordinate

7358
01:43:57,480 --> 01:43:58,140
at this level

7359
01:43:58,140 --> 01:43:58,880
that's right

7360
01:43:58,880 --> 01:43:59,360
the inverse

7361
01:43:59,360 --> 01:43:59,800
of my argument

7362
01:43:59,800 --> 01:44:00,520
literally the

7363
01:44:00,520 --> 01:44:00,840
inverse

7364
01:44:00,840 --> 01:44:01,280
of the first

7365
01:44:01,280 --> 01:44:01,520
way

7366
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:02,160
so

7367
01:44:02,160 --> 01:44:03,560
you're

7368
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:03,760
arguing

7369
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:04,240
we have

7370
01:44:04,240 --> 01:44:04,420
to take

7371
01:44:04,420 --> 01:44:04,720
those tools

7372
01:44:04,720 --> 01:44:05,000
away

7373
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:07,840
I say

7374
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:08,080
they

7375
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:09,060
take

7376
01:44:09,060 --> 01:44:09,240
them

7377
01:44:09,240 --> 01:44:09,420
away

7378
01:44:09,420 --> 01:44:09,840
themselves

7379
01:44:09,840 --> 01:44:10,180
in a

7380
01:44:10,180 --> 01:44:10,400
way

7381
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:12,060
once

7382
01:44:12,060 --> 01:44:12,360
things

7383
01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:12,540
can

7384
01:44:12,540 --> 01:44:12,820
become

7385
01:44:12,820 --> 01:44:13,280
public

7386
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:13,580
so

7387
01:44:13,580 --> 01:44:14,880
why

7388
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:15,160
is it

7389
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:15,300
that

7390
01:44:15,300 --> 01:44:15,580
people

7391
01:44:15,580 --> 01:44:16,160
engage

7392
01:44:16,160 --> 01:44:16,500
why

7393
01:44:16,500 --> 01:44:16,740
is it

7394
01:44:16,740 --> 01:44:17,140
powerful

7395
01:44:17,140 --> 01:44:17,760
organisations

7396
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:18,020
there's

7397
01:44:18,020 --> 01:44:18,280
all sorts

7398
01:44:18,280 --> 01:44:18,620
of reasons

7399
01:44:18,620 --> 01:44:18,820
why

7400
01:44:18,820 --> 01:44:19,460
non-powerful

7401
01:44:19,460 --> 01:44:19,940
organisations

7402
01:44:19,940 --> 01:44:20,520
engage

7403
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:21,120
in secrecy

7404
01:44:21,120 --> 01:44:22,540
which

7405
01:44:22,540 --> 01:44:23,580
my view

7406
01:44:23,580 --> 01:44:24,060
is legitimate

7407
01:44:24,060 --> 01:44:24,560
they need

7408
01:44:24,560 --> 01:44:24,780
it

7409
01:44:24,780 --> 01:44:25,400
because

7410
01:44:25,400 --> 01:44:25,600
they're

7411
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:26,120
powerless

7412
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:27,720
but why

7413
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:28,280
do powerful

7414
01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:28,920
organisations

7415
01:44:28,920 --> 01:44:29,360
engage

7416
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:29,980
in secrecy

7417
01:44:29,980 --> 01:44:32,280
well

7418
01:44:32,280 --> 01:44:34,200
usually

7419
01:44:34,200 --> 01:44:34,940
because

7420
01:44:34,940 --> 01:44:35,280
the

7421
01:44:35,280 --> 01:44:36,460
plans

7422
01:44:36,460 --> 01:44:37,180
that they

7423
01:44:37,180 --> 01:44:37,620
have

7424
01:44:37,620 --> 01:44:38,700
if

7425
01:44:38,700 --> 01:44:39,120
made

7426
01:44:39,120 --> 01:44:39,560
public

7427
01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:40,480
will be

7428
01:44:40,480 --> 01:44:41,840
opposed

7429
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:42,260
by the

7430
01:44:42,260 --> 01:44:42,580
public

7431
01:44:42,580 --> 01:44:44,220
and

7432
01:44:44,220 --> 01:44:44,940
plans

7433
01:44:44,940 --> 01:44:45,200
that are

7434
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:45,620
opposed

7435
01:44:45,620 --> 01:44:46,180
before

7436
01:44:46,180 --> 01:44:47,760
implementation

7437
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:48,520
often don't

7438
01:44:48,520 --> 01:44:49,080
get implemented

7439
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:50,180
so you

7440
01:44:50,180 --> 01:44:50,400
want to

7441
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:50,560
wait

7442
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:50,860
as long

7443
01:44:50,860 --> 01:44:51,020
as

7444
01:44:51,020 --> 01:44:51,420
possible

7445
01:44:51,420 --> 01:44:54,060
and

7446
01:44:54,060 --> 01:44:54,260
then

7447
01:44:54,260 --> 01:44:55,040
implementation

7448
01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:56,380
eventually

7449
01:44:56,380 --> 01:44:56,880
makes them

7450
01:44:56,880 --> 01:44:57,220
public

7451
01:44:57,220 --> 01:44:57,880
by the

7452
01:44:57,880 --> 01:44:58,060
very

7453
01:44:58,060 --> 01:44:58,340
fact

7454
01:44:58,340 --> 01:44:58,560
they're

7455
01:44:58,560 --> 01:44:58,680
being

7456
01:44:58,680 --> 01:44:59,080
implemented

7457
01:44:59,080 --> 01:44:59,460
but it's

7458
01:44:59,460 --> 01:44:59,800
too late

7459
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:00,240
by then

7460
01:45:00,240 --> 01:45:01,640
to alter

7461
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:02,120
the course

7462
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:02,380
so

7463
01:45:02,380 --> 01:45:03,640
effectively

7464
01:45:03,640 --> 01:45:06,100
so

7465
01:45:06,100 --> 01:45:07,600
if we

7466
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:08,440
get out

7467
01:45:08,440 --> 01:45:09,220
so

7468
01:45:09,220 --> 01:45:10,220
an organisation

7469
01:45:10,220 --> 01:45:11,440
on the other

7470
01:45:11,440 --> 01:45:12,160
hand that is

7471
01:45:12,160 --> 01:45:12,740
engaged in

7472
01:45:12,740 --> 01:45:13,520
planning behaviour

7473
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:15,480
that if revealed

7474
01:45:15,480 --> 01:45:16,200
is not opposed

7475
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:16,840
by the public

7476
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:17,900
doesn't have

7477
01:45:17,900 --> 01:45:18,980
that

7478
01:45:18,980 --> 01:45:19,600
burden

7479
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:20,800
it doesn't

7480
01:45:20,800 --> 01:45:21,180
have that

7481
01:45:21,180 --> 01:45:21,540
planning

7482
01:45:21,540 --> 01:45:21,880
burden

7483
01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:22,340
where it

7484
01:45:22,340 --> 01:45:22,720
is forced

7485
01:45:22,720 --> 01:45:23,060
to take

7486
01:45:23,060 --> 01:45:23,500
things off

7487
01:45:23,500 --> 01:45:23,800
paper

7488
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:25,060
so this

7489
01:45:25,060 --> 01:45:25,300
will be

7490
01:45:25,300 --> 01:45:25,620
an efficient

7491
01:45:25,620 --> 01:45:26,240
organisation

7492
01:45:26,240 --> 01:45:26,940
this will

7493
01:45:26,940 --> 01:45:27,400
not be

7494
01:45:27,400 --> 01:45:27,740
an efficient

7495
01:45:27,740 --> 01:45:28,440
organisation

7496
01:45:28,440 --> 01:45:29,140
and in

7497
01:45:29,140 --> 01:45:29,620
the mix

7498
01:45:29,620 --> 01:45:31,300
as they do

7499
01:45:31,300 --> 01:45:31,880
economic and

7500
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:32,540
political battle

7501
01:45:32,540 --> 01:45:33,400
it will

7502
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:34,260
equilibrate out

7503
01:45:34,260 --> 01:45:34,760
these guys

7504
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:35,140
will shrink

7505
01:45:35,140 --> 01:45:35,420
and these

7506
01:45:35,420 --> 01:45:35,740
guys will

7507
01:45:35,740 --> 01:45:35,980
grow

7508
01:45:35,980 --> 01:45:37,680
is that

7509
01:45:37,680 --> 01:45:38,300
your

7510
01:45:38,300 --> 01:45:39,220
fundamental

7511
01:45:39,220 --> 01:45:40,000
justification

7512
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:40,620
do you think

7513
01:45:40,620 --> 01:45:42,340
is for what

7514
01:45:42,340 --> 01:45:42,740
you're doing

7515
01:45:42,740 --> 01:45:45,560
fundamental

7516
01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:46,200
justification

7517
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:47,140
is that

7518
01:45:47,140 --> 01:45:50,300
there's really

7519
01:45:50,300 --> 01:45:50,700
two

7520
01:45:50,700 --> 01:45:53,180
first of all

7521
01:45:53,180 --> 01:45:55,440
the human

7522
01:45:55,440 --> 01:45:56,400
civilisation

7523
01:45:56,400 --> 01:45:58,300
its good part

7524
01:45:58,300 --> 01:45:59,200
is based upon

7525
01:45:59,200 --> 01:45:59,840
our full

7526
01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:00,720
intellectual record

7527
01:46:00,720 --> 01:46:01,100
and our

7528
01:46:01,100 --> 01:46:02,540
intellectual record

7529
01:46:02,540 --> 01:46:03,180
should be

7530
01:46:03,180 --> 01:46:05,020
as large as

7531
01:46:05,020 --> 01:46:05,380
possible

7532
01:46:05,380 --> 01:46:06,220
if humanity

7533
01:46:06,220 --> 01:46:06,880
is to be

7534
01:46:06,880 --> 01:46:07,480
as advanced

7535
01:46:07,480 --> 01:46:07,960
as possible

7536
01:46:07,960 --> 01:46:10,920
the second

7537
01:46:10,920 --> 01:46:11,660
is that

7538
01:46:11,660 --> 01:46:14,380
in practice

7539
01:46:14,380 --> 01:46:17,620
releasing

7540
01:46:17,620 --> 01:46:19,120
information

7541
01:46:19,120 --> 01:46:21,940
is positive

7542
01:46:21,940 --> 01:46:23,080
to those

7543
01:46:23,080 --> 01:46:23,820
engaged

7544
01:46:23,820 --> 01:46:24,540
in acts

7545
01:46:24,540 --> 01:46:25,040
that the public

7546
01:46:25,040 --> 01:46:25,540
supports

7547
01:46:25,540 --> 01:46:26,420
and negative

7548
01:46:26,420 --> 01:46:27,220
to those

7549
01:46:27,220 --> 01:46:27,620
engaged

7550
01:46:27,620 --> 01:46:28,040
in acts

7551
01:46:28,040 --> 01:46:28,580
that the public

7552
01:46:28,580 --> 01:46:29,140
does not

7553
01:46:29,140 --> 01:46:29,480
support

7554
01:46:29,480 --> 01:46:29,700
it

7555
01:46:29,700 --> 01:46:30,000
have

7556
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:30,400
itself

7557
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:31,000
restrained

7558
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:35,040
well

7559
01:46:35,040 --> 01:46:35,380
it

7560
01:46:35,380 --> 01:46:37,140
can

7561
01:46:37,140 --> 01:46:40,040
create

7562
01:46:40,040 --> 01:46:40,940
a redress

7563
01:46:40,940 --> 01:46:41,500
for

7564
01:46:41,500 --> 01:46:42,580
an act

7565
01:46:42,580 --> 01:46:43,680
of injustice

7566
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:44,300
that is

7567
01:46:44,300 --> 01:46:44,780
revealed

7568
01:46:44,780 --> 01:46:45,440
and that's

7569
01:46:45,440 --> 01:46:45,820
nice

7570
01:46:45,820 --> 01:46:46,540
but the

7571
01:46:46,540 --> 01:46:47,180
larger effect

7572
01:46:47,180 --> 01:46:47,480
is that

7573
01:46:47,480 --> 01:46:48,140
it creates

7574
01:46:48,140 --> 01:46:49,560
disincentives

7575
01:46:49,560 --> 01:46:51,080
for

7576
01:46:51,080 --> 01:46:51,900
organisations

7577
01:46:51,900 --> 01:46:52,280
to

7578
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:54,540
create

7579
01:46:54,540 --> 01:46:55,040
unjust

7580
01:46:55,040 --> 01:46:55,480
plans

7581
01:46:55,480 --> 01:46:56,040
or engage

7582
01:46:56,040 --> 01:46:56,480
in unjust

7583
01:46:56,480 --> 01:46:56,900
acts

7584
01:46:56,900 --> 01:47:01,520
in 10

7585
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:02,140
years

7586
01:47:02,140 --> 01:47:05,100
what does

7587
01:47:05,100 --> 01:47:05,560
this world

7588
01:47:05,560 --> 01:47:06,100
look like

7589
01:47:06,100 --> 01:47:08,560
if you

7590
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:09,480
extrapolate

7591
01:47:09,480 --> 01:47:10,080
this

7592
01:47:10,080 --> 01:47:10,580
market

7593
01:47:10,580 --> 01:47:12,840
well

7594
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:14,100
we're at

7595
01:47:14,100 --> 01:47:14,280
a bit

7596
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:14,460
of a

7597
01:47:14,460 --> 01:47:14,940
crossroads

7598
01:47:14,940 --> 01:47:15,180
you know

7599
01:47:15,180 --> 01:47:15,580
you can

7600
01:47:15,580 --> 01:47:15,920
go either

7601
01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:16,760
way

7602
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:17,800
so

7603
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:23,480
remember

7604
01:47:23,480 --> 01:47:25,760
Philip Zuman's

7605
01:47:25,760 --> 01:47:26,600
PGP case

7606
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:26,940
yes

7607
01:47:26,940 --> 01:47:29,440
that was

7608
01:47:29,440 --> 01:47:29,820
just a

7609
01:47:29,820 --> 01:47:30,240
grand jury

7610
01:47:30,240 --> 01:47:30,940
investigation

7611
01:47:30,940 --> 01:47:33,600
it was

7612
01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:35,080
moderately

7613
01:47:35,080 --> 01:47:35,600
serious

7614
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:37,020
but actually

7615
01:47:37,020 --> 01:47:38,400
he wasn't

7616
01:47:38,400 --> 01:47:38,800
convicted

7617
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:39,420
no one at

7618
01:47:39,420 --> 01:47:39,780
that time

7619
01:47:39,780 --> 01:47:40,020
was being

7620
01:47:40,020 --> 01:47:40,340
convicted

7621
01:47:40,340 --> 01:47:40,660
that he

7622
01:47:40,660 --> 01:47:41,080
investigated

7623
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,520
it

7624
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:44,400
changed

7625
01:47:44,400 --> 01:47:45,040
the behaviour

7626
01:47:45,040 --> 01:47:45,780
of

7627
01:47:45,780 --> 01:47:46,800
tens of

7628
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:47,160
thousands

7629
01:47:47,160 --> 01:47:47,740
of people

7630
01:47:47,740 --> 01:47:49,660
who were

7631
01:47:49,660 --> 01:47:50,340
involved

7632
01:47:50,340 --> 01:47:51,080
in

7633
01:47:51,080 --> 01:47:53,060
choosing

7634
01:47:53,060 --> 01:47:53,800
to put

7635
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:54,380
cryptography

7636
01:47:54,380 --> 01:47:54,760
into

7637
01:47:54,760 --> 01:47:55,260
programs

7638
01:47:55,260 --> 01:47:55,800
or not

7639
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:56,940
all

7640
01:47:56,940 --> 01:47:57,360
sorts

7641
01:47:57,360 --> 01:47:57,580
of

7642
01:47:57,580 --> 01:47:58,860
tortured

7643
01:47:58,860 --> 01:48:03,900
copyright

7644
01:48:03,900 --> 01:48:04,640
assignments

7645
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:05,320
and

7646
01:48:05,320 --> 01:48:06,860
inter

7647
01:48:06,860 --> 01:48:07,820
software

7648
01:48:07,820 --> 01:48:08,140
company

7649
01:48:08,140 --> 01:48:08,620
structuring

7650
01:48:08,620 --> 01:48:09,040
arrangements

7651
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:09,580
and

7652
01:48:09,580 --> 01:48:12,500
how code

7653
01:48:12,500 --> 01:48:13,060
was deployed

7654
01:48:13,060 --> 01:48:13,720
were engaged

7655
01:48:13,720 --> 01:48:13,960
in

7656
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:15,200
just from

7657
01:48:15,200 --> 01:48:15,760
that negative

7658
01:48:15,760 --> 01:48:16,360
signal of the

7659
01:48:16,360 --> 01:48:16,720
grand jury

7660
01:48:16,720 --> 01:48:17,320
investigation

7661
01:48:17,320 --> 01:48:21,640
so what

7662
01:48:21,640 --> 01:48:22,160
that means

7663
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:22,780
is that

7664
01:48:22,780 --> 01:48:24,140
signals

7665
01:48:24,140 --> 01:48:25,080
about what

7666
01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:25,560
behaviour

7667
01:48:25,560 --> 01:48:27,380
is acceptable

7668
01:48:27,380 --> 01:48:28,300
what behaviour

7669
01:48:28,300 --> 01:48:29,560
you can get away

7670
01:48:29,560 --> 01:48:29,860
with

7671
01:48:29,860 --> 01:48:31,300
and what behaviour

7672
01:48:31,300 --> 01:48:32,420
what behaviour

7673
01:48:32,420 --> 01:48:34,800
is beneficial

7674
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:35,600
to individuals

7675
01:48:35,600 --> 01:48:36,900
engaging in it

7676
01:48:36,900 --> 01:48:37,600
and what behaviour

7677
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:38,660
is not

7678
01:48:38,660 --> 01:48:41,720
changes

7679
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:42,960
how many

7680
01:48:42,960 --> 01:48:43,820
people behave

7681
01:48:43,820 --> 01:48:45,840
so

7682
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:47,060
we are

7683
01:48:47,060 --> 01:48:47,820
at a

7684
01:48:47,820 --> 01:48:48,880
crossroads

7685
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:49,300
now

7686
01:48:49,300 --> 01:48:50,380
where the

7687
01:48:50,380 --> 01:48:54,220
where those

7688
01:48:54,220 --> 01:48:54,920
organisations

7689
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:56,480
that are

7690
01:48:56,480 --> 01:48:58,240
fighting against

7691
01:48:58,240 --> 01:48:59,000
those people

7692
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:00,220
who want to be

7693
01:49:00,220 --> 01:49:01,040
able to publish

7694
01:49:01,040 --> 01:49:01,460
freely

7695
01:49:01,460 --> 01:49:04,180
and disclose

7696
01:49:04,180 --> 01:49:05,220
important information

7697
01:49:05,220 --> 01:49:05,920
to the public

7698
01:49:05,920 --> 01:49:09,720
I can't remember

7699
01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:10,080
the beginning

7700
01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:10,580
of this sentence

7701
01:49:10,580 --> 01:49:29,400
could produce

7702
01:49:29,400 --> 01:49:31,380
if successful

7703
01:49:31,380 --> 01:49:34,340
a signal

7704
01:49:34,340 --> 01:49:34,780
which

7705
01:49:34,780 --> 01:49:37,620
discourages

7706
01:49:37,620 --> 01:49:38,240
everyone

7707
01:49:38,240 --> 01:49:39,780
almost everyone

7708
01:49:39,780 --> 01:49:40,400
from engaging

7709
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:40,760
in those

7710
01:49:40,760 --> 01:49:41,200
activities

7711
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:43,320
or

7712
01:49:43,320 --> 01:49:48,960
we

7713
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:49,520
and people

7714
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:49,960
who share

7715
01:49:49,960 --> 01:49:50,640
our values

7716
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:51,940
could be

7717
01:49:51,940 --> 01:49:52,380
successful

7718
01:49:52,380 --> 01:49:53,060
and

7719
01:49:53,060 --> 01:49:54,180
that will

7720
01:49:54,180 --> 01:49:54,960
then become

7721
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:55,560
the new

7722
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:56,120
norm

7723
01:49:56,120 --> 01:49:56,660
of accepted

7724
01:49:56,660 --> 01:49:57,160
behaviour

7725
01:49:57,160 --> 01:50:01,140
and what

7726
01:50:01,140 --> 01:50:01,380
are the

7727
01:50:01,380 --> 01:50:01,780
necessary

7728
01:50:01,780 --> 01:50:02,340
conditions

7729
01:50:02,340 --> 01:50:02,760
for that

7730
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:03,380
to occur

7731
01:50:03,380 --> 01:50:03,680
with the

7732
01:50:03,680 --> 01:50:03,920
latter

7733
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:05,800
I can

7734
01:50:05,800 --> 01:50:06,040
easily

7735
01:50:06,040 --> 01:50:06,400
imagine

7736
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:06,920
the necessary

7737
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:07,340
conditions

7738
01:50:07,340 --> 01:50:07,720
for the

7739
01:50:07,720 --> 01:50:08,020
moment

7740
01:50:08,020 --> 01:50:09,680
everyone

7741
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:10,180
gives money

7742
01:50:10,180 --> 01:50:10,800
to WikiLeaks

7743
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:12,940
I didn't

7744
01:50:12,940 --> 01:50:13,380
even hear you

7745
01:50:13,380 --> 01:50:13,800
everyone

7746
01:50:13,800 --> 01:50:14,280
gives money

7747
01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:14,840
to WikiLeaks

7748
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:16,960
are you

7749
01:50:16,960 --> 01:50:17,220
taking

7750
01:50:17,220 --> 01:50:17,600
Bitcoin

7751
01:50:17,600 --> 01:50:19,180
yes

7752
01:50:19,180 --> 01:50:19,840
yes

7753
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:22,840
so

7754
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:26,800
it's

7755
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:27,180
quite

7756
01:50:27,180 --> 01:50:27,560
interesting

7757
01:50:27,560 --> 01:50:28,000
to know

7758
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:28,580
whether

7759
01:50:28,580 --> 01:50:31,600
whether

7760
01:50:31,600 --> 01:50:34,620
people read

7761
01:50:34,620 --> 01:50:34,820
this

7762
01:50:34,820 --> 01:50:35,100
and they

7763
01:50:35,100 --> 01:50:35,580
act

7764
01:50:35,580 --> 01:50:40,680
will their

7765
01:50:40,680 --> 01:50:41,220
action be

7766
01:50:41,220 --> 01:50:41,480
enough

7767
01:50:41,480 --> 01:50:43,120
to change

7768
01:50:43,120 --> 01:50:44,080
the result

7769
01:50:44,080 --> 01:50:45,620
so that is

7770
01:50:45,620 --> 01:50:46,120
why we had a

7771
01:50:46,120 --> 01:50:46,560
very interesting

7772
01:50:46,560 --> 01:50:46,880
period

7773
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:47,340
that I think

7774
01:50:47,340 --> 01:50:47,960
actually

7775
01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:54,180
we're literally

7776
01:50:54,180 --> 01:50:54,640
at this

7777
01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:55,240
crossroads

7778
01:50:55,240 --> 01:50:56,340
and a

7779
01:50:56,340 --> 01:50:56,700
little bit

7780
01:50:56,700 --> 01:50:57,060
more

7781
01:50:57,060 --> 01:50:58,080
push

7782
01:50:58,080 --> 01:50:58,420
to one

7783
01:50:58,420 --> 01:50:58,800
direction

7784
01:50:58,800 --> 01:50:59,360
or another

7785
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:00,600
could change

7786
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:00,940
the outcome

7787
01:51:00,940 --> 01:51:01,380
a lot

7788
01:51:01,380 --> 01:51:02,580
so

7789
01:51:02,580 --> 01:51:06,900
people

7790
01:51:06,900 --> 01:51:07,220
should

7791
01:51:07,220 --> 01:51:09,140
if they

7792
01:51:09,140 --> 01:51:10,060
want to see

7793
01:51:10,060 --> 01:51:11,000
the values

7794
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:11,300
that we

7795
01:51:11,300 --> 01:51:11,640
promote

7796
01:51:11,640 --> 01:51:12,140
succeed

7797
01:51:12,140 --> 01:51:13,820
promote

7798
01:51:13,820 --> 01:51:14,520
those

7799
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:15,140
organisations

7800
01:51:15,140 --> 01:51:15,900
and individuals

7801
01:51:15,900 --> 01:51:17,520
that represent

7802
01:51:17,520 --> 01:51:18,280
those values

7803
01:51:18,280 --> 01:51:20,400
and start

7804
01:51:20,400 --> 01:51:20,940
taking on

7805
01:51:20,940 --> 01:51:21,260
doing it

7806
01:51:21,260 --> 01:51:21,740
themselves

7807
01:51:21,740 --> 01:51:22,480
I was going

7808
01:51:22,480 --> 01:51:22,640
to say

7809
01:51:22,640 --> 01:51:23,160
they become

7810
01:51:23,160 --> 01:51:25,800
representations

7811
01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:26,400
of those

7812
01:51:26,400 --> 01:51:26,720
values

7813
01:51:26,720 --> 01:51:27,180
themselves

7814
01:51:27,180 --> 01:51:29,540
I'm always

7815
01:51:29,540 --> 01:51:30,260
hesitant in

7816
01:51:30,260 --> 01:51:30,900
saying everyone

7817
01:51:30,900 --> 01:51:31,600
should go out

7818
01:51:31,600 --> 01:51:31,980
and be a

7819
01:51:31,980 --> 01:51:32,240
martyr

7820
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:33,500
because I

7821
01:51:33,500 --> 01:51:33,980
don't believe

7822
01:51:33,980 --> 01:51:34,280
that

7823
01:51:34,280 --> 01:51:35,480
I believe

7824
01:51:35,480 --> 01:51:35,900
the most

7825
01:51:35,900 --> 01:51:36,840
effective

7826
01:51:36,840 --> 01:51:38,200
activists

7827
01:51:38,200 --> 01:51:39,120
are those

7828
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:39,520
that fight

7829
01:51:39,520 --> 01:51:39,800
and run

7830
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:40,100
away

7831
01:51:40,100 --> 01:51:40,600
actually

7832
01:51:40,600 --> 01:51:41,820
not those

7833
01:51:41,820 --> 01:51:42,180
who fight

7834
01:51:42,180 --> 01:51:42,500
and martyr

7835
01:51:42,500 --> 01:51:42,940
themselves

7836
01:51:42,940 --> 01:51:43,380
but those

7837
01:51:43,380 --> 01:51:43,740
who fight

7838
01:51:43,740 --> 01:51:43,980
and run

7839
01:51:43,980 --> 01:51:44,240
away

7840
01:51:44,240 --> 01:51:44,740
and fight

7841
01:51:44,740 --> 01:51:44,980
another

7842
01:51:44,980 --> 01:51:45,220
day

7843
01:51:45,220 --> 01:51:47,420
so that's

7844
01:51:47,420 --> 01:51:47,660
about

7845
01:51:47,660 --> 01:51:48,100
judgement

7846
01:51:48,100 --> 01:51:49,040
when to

7847
01:51:49,040 --> 01:51:49,580
engage

7848
01:51:49,580 --> 01:51:49,940
in the

7849
01:51:49,940 --> 01:51:50,280
fight

7850
01:51:50,280 --> 01:51:50,840
and when

7851
01:51:50,840 --> 01:51:51,560
to withdraw

7852
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:53,300
so to

7853
01:51:53,300 --> 01:51:53,620
preserve

7854
01:51:53,620 --> 01:51:53,860
your

7855
01:51:53,860 --> 01:51:54,280
resources

7856
01:51:54,280 --> 01:51:54,640
for the

7857
01:51:54,640 --> 01:51:54,840
next

7858
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:55,120
fight

7859
01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:56,640
would you

7860
01:51:56,640 --> 01:51:56,920
make the

7861
01:51:56,920 --> 01:51:57,240
argument

7862
01:51:57,240 --> 01:51:57,580
that

7863
01:51:57,580 --> 01:51:58,160
fighting

7864
01:51:58,160 --> 01:51:58,540
and running

7865
01:51:58,540 --> 01:51:58,860
away

7866
01:51:58,860 --> 01:51:59,760
is not

7867
01:51:59,760 --> 01:52:00,100
that

7868
01:52:00,100 --> 01:52:00,580
like

7869
01:52:00,580 --> 01:52:00,920
physically

7870
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:01,260
fighting

7871
01:52:01,260 --> 01:52:01,540
and running

7872
01:52:01,540 --> 01:52:01,720
away

7873
01:52:01,720 --> 01:52:01,980
is not

7874
01:52:01,980 --> 01:52:02,240
that

7875
01:52:02,240 --> 01:52:02,640
different

7876
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:03,020
from

7877
01:52:03,020 --> 01:52:03,460
fighting

7878
01:52:03,460 --> 01:52:04,000
anonymously

7879
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:05,300
so long

7880
01:52:05,300 --> 01:52:05,620
as you're

7881
01:52:05,620 --> 01:52:06,100
sufficiently

7882
01:52:06,100 --> 01:52:06,600
confident

7883
01:52:06,600 --> 01:52:06,960
that your

7884
01:52:06,960 --> 01:52:07,540
anonymity

7885
01:52:07,540 --> 01:52:08,800
if you have

7886
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:10,300
perfect anonymity

7887
01:52:10,300 --> 01:52:10,680
you can

7888
01:52:10,680 --> 01:52:11,360
fight forever

7889
01:52:11,360 --> 01:52:12,140
and don't

7890
01:52:12,140 --> 01:52:12,400
have to

7891
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:12,820
run away

7892
01:52:12,820 --> 01:52:23,540
you can

7893
01:52:23,540 --> 01:52:24,760
lower the

7894
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:25,080
courage

7895
01:52:25,080 --> 01:52:25,680
threshold

7896
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:26,600
that's one

7897
01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:26,840
of the

7898
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:27,420
nice things

7899
01:52:27,420 --> 01:52:28,280
anonymity does

7900
01:52:28,280 --> 01:52:31,360
but

7901
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:34,660
maybe it's

7902
01:52:34,660 --> 01:52:34,980
not the

7903
01:52:34,980 --> 01:52:35,300
right way

7904
01:52:35,300 --> 01:52:35,860
to put it

7905
01:52:35,860 --> 01:52:37,800
people often

7906
01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:38,060
say

7907
01:52:38,060 --> 01:52:38,340
well you

7908
01:52:38,340 --> 01:52:38,480
were

7909
01:52:38,480 --> 01:52:38,900
tremendously

7910
01:52:38,900 --> 01:52:39,420
courageous

7911
01:52:39,420 --> 01:52:39,760
in what

7912
01:52:39,760 --> 01:52:39,920
you're

7913
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:40,140
doing

7914
01:52:40,140 --> 01:52:40,440
etc

7915
01:52:40,440 --> 01:52:40,720
etc

7916
01:52:40,720 --> 01:52:42,600
and I

7917
01:52:42,600 --> 01:52:42,860
say

7918
01:52:42,860 --> 01:52:43,580
no no

7919
01:52:43,580 --> 01:52:43,740
you

7920
01:52:43,740 --> 01:52:44,080
misunderstand

7921
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:44,560
what

7922
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:44,900
courage

7923
01:52:44,900 --> 01:52:45,360
is

7924
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:46,260
courage

7925
01:52:46,260 --> 01:52:47,080
is not

7926
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:47,620
the absence

7927
01:52:47,620 --> 01:52:48,160
of fear

7928
01:52:48,160 --> 01:52:48,940
only

7929
01:52:48,940 --> 01:52:50,100
fools

7930
01:52:50,100 --> 01:52:51,320
have no

7931
01:52:51,320 --> 01:52:51,760
fear

7932
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:52,480
rather

7933
01:52:52,480 --> 01:52:53,080
courage

7934
01:52:53,080 --> 01:52:53,400
is

7935
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:53,840
the

7936
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:54,200
intellectual

7937
01:52:54,200 --> 01:52:54,700
mastery

7938
01:52:54,700 --> 01:52:55,160
of fear

7939
01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:56,160
by understanding

7940
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:57,380
the true

7941
01:52:57,380 --> 01:52:57,900
risks of

7942
01:52:57,900 --> 01:52:58,560
the situation

7943
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:00,400
and

7944
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:01,100
opportunities

7945
01:53:01,100 --> 01:53:04,420
and then

7946
01:53:04,420 --> 01:53:04,880
keeping these

7947
01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:05,260
things in

7948
01:53:05,260 --> 01:53:05,680
balance

7949
01:53:05,680 --> 01:53:06,780
and not

7950
01:53:06,780 --> 01:53:07,620
simply

7951
01:53:07,620 --> 01:53:08,060
having

7952
01:53:08,060 --> 01:53:09,580
prejudice

7953
01:53:09,580 --> 01:53:10,080
about

7954
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:10,720
what

7955
01:53:10,720 --> 01:53:11,800
the risks

7956
01:53:11,800 --> 01:53:12,120
are

7957
01:53:12,120 --> 01:53:13,160
but actually

7958
01:53:13,160 --> 01:53:14,540
testing them

7959
01:53:14,540 --> 01:53:16,000
because there's

7960
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:16,300
lots of

7961
01:53:16,300 --> 01:53:17,200
myths that go

7962
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:17,780
around about

7963
01:53:17,780 --> 01:53:19,500
what can

7964
01:53:19,500 --> 01:53:19,820
be done

7965
01:53:19,820 --> 01:53:20,120
and what

7966
01:53:20,120 --> 01:53:20,800
cannot be

7967
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:21,060
done

7968
01:53:21,060 --> 01:53:24,040
actually

7969
01:53:24,040 --> 01:53:24,240
it's

7970
01:53:24,240 --> 01:53:24,640
important

7971
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:25,340
to test

7972
01:53:25,340 --> 01:53:26,800
and you

7973
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:27,260
don't test

7974
01:53:27,260 --> 01:53:27,720
by jumping

7975
01:53:27,720 --> 01:53:28,300
off a bridge

7976
01:53:28,300 --> 01:53:28,840
you test

7977
01:53:28,840 --> 01:53:29,260
by

7978
01:53:29,260 --> 01:53:31,160
jumping

7979
01:53:31,160 --> 01:53:31,460
off a

7980
01:53:31,460 --> 01:53:31,880
footstill

7981
01:53:31,880 --> 01:53:32,300
and then

7982
01:53:32,300 --> 01:53:32,560
jumping

7983
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:33,100
off something

7984
01:53:33,100 --> 01:53:33,360
a bit

7985
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:33,580
higher

7986
01:53:33,580 --> 01:53:33,800
and a bit

7987
01:53:33,800 --> 01:53:34,160
higher

7988
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:35,300
can I

7989
01:53:35,300 --> 01:53:35,500
say a

7990
01:53:35,500 --> 01:53:35,880
follow up

7991
01:53:35,880 --> 01:53:36,220
to that

7992
01:53:36,220 --> 01:53:37,240
it goes

7993
01:53:37,240 --> 01:53:37,580
back to

7994
01:53:37,580 --> 01:53:38,000
what Scott

7995
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:38,500
was asking

7996
01:53:38,500 --> 01:53:38,860
about the

7997
01:53:38,860 --> 01:53:39,300
relationship

7998
01:53:39,300 --> 01:53:39,800
between the

7999
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:40,020
person

8000
01:53:40,020 --> 01:53:40,440
providing

8001
01:53:40,440 --> 01:53:41,040
information

8002
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:41,340
and the

8003
01:53:41,340 --> 01:53:41,640
person

8004
01:53:41,640 --> 01:53:42,240
receiving

8005
01:53:42,240 --> 01:53:42,940
it

8006
01:53:42,940 --> 01:53:43,480
we look

8007
01:53:43,480 --> 01:53:43,680
at all

8008
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:44,120
the different

8009
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:45,280
societies

8010
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:45,720
around the

8011
01:53:45,720 --> 01:53:45,880
world

8012
01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:46,280
presumably

8013
01:53:46,280 --> 01:53:46,800
not everybody

8014
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:47,180
starting

8015
01:53:47,180 --> 01:53:47,980
on the

8016
01:53:47,980 --> 01:53:48,560
same level

8017
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:49,060
playing field

8018
01:53:49,060 --> 01:53:49,260
there's

8019
01:53:49,260 --> 01:53:49,640
some people

8020
01:53:49,640 --> 01:53:50,100
that have

8021
01:53:50,100 --> 01:53:50,320
a

8022
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:50,980
greater

8023
01:53:50,980 --> 01:53:51,600
education

8024
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:52,040
of the

8025
01:53:52,040 --> 01:53:52,240
risks

8026
01:53:52,240 --> 01:53:52,760
associated

8027
01:53:52,760 --> 01:53:53,200
with using

8028
01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:53,740
these tools

8029
01:53:53,740 --> 01:53:54,180
there's some

8030
01:53:54,180 --> 01:53:54,700
people who

8031
01:53:54,700 --> 01:53:55,440
are going

8032
01:53:55,440 --> 01:53:55,760
to provide

8033
01:53:55,760 --> 01:53:56,300
information

8034
01:53:56,300 --> 01:53:57,360
in societies

8035
01:53:57,360 --> 01:53:57,660
where the

8036
01:53:57,660 --> 01:53:58,000
governments

8037
01:53:58,000 --> 01:53:58,600
aren't as

8038
01:53:58,600 --> 01:53:58,900
vigilant

8039
01:53:58,900 --> 01:53:59,440
there's some

8040
01:53:59,440 --> 01:53:59,740
where they're

8041
01:53:59,740 --> 01:54:00,380
very vigilant

8042
01:54:00,380 --> 01:54:01,280
it would seem

8043
01:54:01,280 --> 01:54:02,040
that a place

8044
01:54:02,040 --> 01:54:03,360
like in Iran

8045
01:54:03,360 --> 01:54:04,160
or in North Korea

8046
01:54:04,160 --> 01:54:05,060
where the

8047
01:54:05,060 --> 01:54:05,800
combination of

8048
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:06,320
very vigilant

8049
01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:06,920
regimes

8050
01:54:06,920 --> 01:54:07,800
with populations

8051
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:08,480
that are still

8052
01:54:08,480 --> 01:54:10,020
relatively new

8053
01:54:10,020 --> 01:54:10,680
to these tools

8054
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:11,120
and the risks

8055
01:54:11,120 --> 01:54:12,180
associated with them

8056
01:54:12,180 --> 01:54:13,580
may not be able

8057
01:54:13,580 --> 01:54:14,320
to actually

8058
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:15,080
have that

8059
01:54:15,080 --> 01:54:15,660
understanding

8060
01:54:15,660 --> 01:54:16,320
of the true

8061
01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:16,800
risks of the

8062
01:54:16,800 --> 01:54:17,360
situation

8063
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:19,320
and opportunities

8064
01:54:19,320 --> 01:54:19,880
that you're

8065
01:54:19,880 --> 01:54:20,240
mentioning

8066
01:54:20,240 --> 01:54:24,260
I think

8067
01:54:24,260 --> 01:54:24,700
they're capable

8068
01:54:24,700 --> 01:54:25,300
of learning

8069
01:54:25,300 --> 01:54:26,140
like everyone

8070
01:54:26,140 --> 01:54:26,580
else

8071
01:54:26,580 --> 01:54:28,100
these societies

8072
01:54:28,100 --> 01:54:30,440
are much more

8073
01:54:30,440 --> 01:54:30,800
political

8074
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:31,460
than the West

8075
01:54:31,460 --> 01:54:33,720
people like to

8076
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:34,280
talk about

8077
01:54:34,280 --> 01:54:35,860
politics

8078
01:54:35,860 --> 01:54:37,420
over dinner

8079
01:54:37,420 --> 01:54:38,080
every night

8080
01:54:38,080 --> 01:54:39,160
so I'm not

8081
01:54:39,160 --> 01:54:39,800
sure it's

8082
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:40,440
right to

8083
01:54:40,440 --> 01:54:42,240
take this

8084
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:42,840
Western eye

8085
01:54:42,840 --> 01:54:43,200
and think

8086
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:43,460
that these

8087
01:54:43,460 --> 01:54:43,960
people don't

8088
01:54:43,960 --> 01:54:44,400
understand

8089
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:44,720
the lot

8090
01:54:44,720 --> 01:54:45,220
they're in

8091
01:54:45,220 --> 01:54:47,640
also

8092
01:54:47,640 --> 01:54:50,740
the

8093
01:54:50,740 --> 01:54:52,700
extrinsic

8094
01:54:52,700 --> 01:54:53,020
risks

8095
01:54:53,020 --> 01:54:53,580
might be

8096
01:54:53,580 --> 01:54:53,860
higher

8097
01:54:53,860 --> 01:54:54,960
the other

8098
01:54:54,960 --> 01:54:55,360
risks

8099
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:56,300
associated

8100
01:54:56,300 --> 01:54:56,780
with

8101
01:54:56,780 --> 01:54:58,480
conducting

8102
01:54:58,480 --> 01:55:00,160
a political

8103
01:55:00,160 --> 01:55:00,620
life

8104
01:55:00,620 --> 01:55:02,640
may already

8105
01:55:02,640 --> 01:55:03,100
be quite

8106
01:55:03,100 --> 01:55:03,340
high

8107
01:55:03,340 --> 01:55:05,360
so one

8108
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:05,860
has to

8109
01:55:05,860 --> 01:55:07,240
keep these

8110
01:55:07,240 --> 01:55:07,600
risks in

8111
01:55:07,600 --> 01:55:08,000
proportion

8112
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:09,560
also

8113
01:55:09,560 --> 01:55:10,940
the risks

8114
01:55:10,940 --> 01:55:11,800
the potential

8115
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:12,340
rewards

8116
01:55:12,340 --> 01:55:13,180
are much

8117
01:55:13,180 --> 01:55:13,500
greater

8118
01:55:13,500 --> 01:55:16,040
one might

8119
01:55:16,040 --> 01:55:16,600
be involved

8120
01:55:16,600 --> 01:55:17,040
in some

8121
01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:18,520
very grand

8122
01:55:18,520 --> 01:55:18,960
historic

8123
01:55:18,960 --> 01:55:19,420
moment

8124
01:55:19,420 --> 01:55:20,300
and then

8125
01:55:20,300 --> 01:55:20,920
become swept

8126
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:22,060
up in it

8127
01:55:22,060 --> 01:55:24,800
and because

8128
01:55:24,800 --> 01:55:25,240
we all

8129
01:55:25,240 --> 01:55:25,840
only live

8130
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:26,340
once

8131
01:55:26,340 --> 01:55:32,740
we all

8132
01:55:32,740 --> 01:55:34,440
suffer the

8133
01:55:34,440 --> 01:55:34,860
continuous

8134
01:55:34,860 --> 01:55:35,960
risk of

8135
01:55:35,960 --> 01:55:36,760
not having

8136
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:37,780
lived our

8137
01:55:37,780 --> 01:55:38,140
life

8138
01:55:38,140 --> 01:55:39,360
well

8139
01:55:39,360 --> 01:55:41,980
every

8140
01:55:41,980 --> 01:55:42,560
every year

8141
01:55:42,560 --> 01:55:44,560
every year

8142
01:55:44,560 --> 01:55:44,940
that is not

8143
01:55:44,940 --> 01:55:45,260
used

8144
01:55:45,260 --> 01:55:45,560
is

8145
01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:46,260
it's

8146
01:55:46,260 --> 01:55:46,520
a hundred

8147
01:55:46,520 --> 01:55:46,920
percent

8148
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:48,340
way

8149
01:55:48,340 --> 01:55:50,080
it's not

8150
01:55:50,080 --> 01:55:50,340
a risk

8151
01:55:50,340 --> 01:55:50,640
of that

8152
01:55:50,640 --> 01:55:50,920
it's

8153
01:55:50,920 --> 01:55:51,900
a dead

8154
01:55:51,900 --> 01:55:52,340
bet

8155
01:55:52,340 --> 01:56:03,040
this next

8156
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:03,280
year

8157
01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:03,500
will be

8158
01:56:03,500 --> 01:56:03,720
the

8159
01:56:03,720 --> 01:56:04,320
best

8160
01:56:04,320 --> 01:56:04,500
year

8161
01:56:04,500 --> 01:56:04,780
of my

8162
01:56:04,780 --> 01:56:05,180
life

8163
01:56:05,180 --> 01:56:34,140
because at

8164
01:56:34,140 --> 01:56:34,680
some point

8165
01:56:34,680 --> 01:56:35,080
there's going

8166
01:56:35,080 --> 01:56:35,320
to be a

8167
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:35,860
year where

8168
01:56:35,860 --> 01:56:36,440
it's not

8169
01:56:36,440 --> 01:56:36,760
going to be

8170
01:56:36,760 --> 01:56:37,360
so good

8171
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:38,300
and then

8172
01:56:38,300 --> 01:56:38,540
you're going

8173
01:56:38,540 --> 01:56:38,700
to be

8174
01:56:38,700 --> 01:56:39,000
dead

8175
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:40,180
and so

8176
01:56:40,180 --> 01:56:40,940
I love

8177
01:56:40,940 --> 01:56:41,140
that

8178
01:56:41,140 --> 01:56:41,520
right

8179
01:56:41,520 --> 01:56:42,660
this next

8180
01:56:42,660 --> 01:56:42,920
year

8181
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:43,160
is going

8182
01:56:43,160 --> 01:56:43,260
to be

8183
01:56:43,260 --> 01:56:43,660
the best

8184
01:56:43,660 --> 01:56:44,000
year

8185
01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:47,260
how do you

8186
01:56:47,260 --> 01:56:47,960
feel about

8187
01:56:47,960 --> 01:56:48,440
photographs

8188
01:56:48,440 --> 01:56:48,740
for the

8189
01:56:48,740 --> 01:56:48,940
book

8190
01:56:48,940 --> 01:56:49,260
do you mind

8191
01:56:49,260 --> 01:56:49,660
if I take

8192
01:56:49,660 --> 01:56:50,500
snapshots

8193
01:56:50,500 --> 01:56:51,560
of you guys

8194
01:56:51,560 --> 01:56:51,980
just working

8195
01:56:51,980 --> 01:56:53,100
how do you

8196
01:56:53,100 --> 01:56:55,180
you can see

8197
01:56:55,180 --> 01:56:55,480
them

8198
01:56:55,480 --> 01:56:57,380
but they're

8199
01:56:57,380 --> 01:56:58,040
up to you

8200
01:56:58,040 --> 01:56:59,320
I would just

8201
01:56:59,320 --> 01:56:59,660
take like

8202
01:56:59,660 --> 01:57:00,160
shots this

8203
01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:00,360
way

8204
01:57:00,360 --> 01:57:00,640
and maybe

8205
01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:01,100
shots that

8206
01:57:01,100 --> 01:57:01,320
way

8207
01:57:01,320 --> 01:57:02,040
of who

8208
01:57:02,040 --> 01:57:02,300
doing

8209
01:57:02,300 --> 01:57:02,560
what

8210
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:03,620
just

8211
01:57:03,620 --> 01:57:04,660
conversation

8212
01:57:04,660 --> 01:57:05,000
that's

8213
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:05,400
all right

8214
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:05,780
yeah

8215
01:57:05,780 --> 01:57:09,020
yes

8216
01:57:09,020 --> 01:57:09,580
exactly

8217
01:57:09,580 --> 01:57:10,360
it's very

8218
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:10,960
high-tech

8219
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:11,660
operation

8220
01:57:11,660 --> 01:57:12,880
just don't

8221
01:57:12,880 --> 01:57:13,520
say anything

8222
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:14,340
anti-semitic

8223
01:57:14,340 --> 01:57:14,780
in the next

8224
01:57:14,780 --> 01:57:15,360
few months

8225
01:57:15,360 --> 01:57:19,380
no no

8226
01:57:19,380 --> 01:57:19,840
just that

8227
01:57:19,840 --> 01:57:20,220
the last

8228
01:57:20,220 --> 01:57:20,720
the last

8229
01:57:20,720 --> 01:57:22,280
Russian

8230
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:22,780
journalist

8231
01:57:22,780 --> 01:57:23,380
came over

8232
01:57:23,380 --> 01:57:23,860
and took

8233
01:57:23,860 --> 01:57:24,200
a photo

8234
01:57:24,200 --> 01:57:24,680
with me

8235
01:57:24,680 --> 01:57:25,220
and then

8236
01:57:25,220 --> 01:57:26,420
he's a

8237
01:57:26,420 --> 01:57:26,880
he's a

8238
01:57:26,880 --> 01:57:27,900
sort of

8239
01:57:27,900 --> 01:57:28,980
his name

8240
01:57:28,980 --> 01:57:29,440
is Israel

8241
01:57:29,440 --> 01:57:29,920
Shamir

8242
01:57:29,920 --> 01:57:30,240
actually

8243
01:57:30,240 --> 01:57:30,680
he's as

8244
01:57:30,680 --> 01:57:31,120
Jewish as

8245
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:31,640
can possibly

8246
01:57:31,640 --> 01:57:32,020
be

8247
01:57:32,020 --> 01:57:33,840
but he

8248
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:34,800
he's very

8249
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:35,860
he converted

8250
01:57:35,860 --> 01:57:36,220
to Russian

8251
01:57:36,220 --> 01:57:36,680
orthodox

8252
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:37,060
and he's

8253
01:57:37,060 --> 01:57:37,980
very very

8254
01:57:37,980 --> 01:57:41,060
anti-Judaism

8255
01:57:41,060 --> 01:57:42,440
and

8256
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:43,820
so

8257
01:57:43,820 --> 01:57:44,800
he then

8258
01:57:44,800 --> 01:57:45,240
put this

8259
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:45,960
thing out

8260
01:57:45,960 --> 01:57:46,360
in Russian

8261
01:57:46,360 --> 01:57:46,940
reporter or

8262
01:57:46,940 --> 01:57:47,180
something

8263
01:57:47,180 --> 01:57:47,700
with this

8264
01:57:47,700 --> 01:57:48,120
photo with

8265
01:57:48,120 --> 01:57:48,320
me

8266
01:57:48,320 --> 01:57:48,620
and then

8267
01:57:48,620 --> 01:57:49,100
I started

8268
01:57:49,100 --> 01:57:49,500
to cop

8269
01:57:49,500 --> 01:57:50,720
it

8270
01:57:50,720 --> 01:57:51,280
like in

8271
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:51,920
the most

8272
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:52,500
unbelievable

8273
01:57:52,500 --> 01:57:52,980
way

8274
01:57:52,980 --> 01:58:02,500
this is

8275
01:58:02,500 --> 01:58:02,760
just a

8276
01:58:02,760 --> 01:58:02,980
joke

8277
01:58:02,980 --> 01:58:03,380
but you

8278
01:58:03,380 --> 01:58:03,520
know

8279
01:58:03,520 --> 01:58:04,620
I know

8280
01:58:04,620 --> 01:58:05,000
you have

8281
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:05,220
been

8282
01:58:05,220 --> 01:58:05,540
well

8283
01:58:05,540 --> 01:58:05,960
tested

8284
01:58:05,960 --> 01:58:06,880
I am

8285
01:58:06,880 --> 01:58:07,640
very well

8286
01:58:07,640 --> 01:58:08,000
tested

8287
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:08,780
very well

8288
01:58:08,780 --> 01:58:09,040
tested

8289
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:16,220
try to

8290
01:58:16,220 --> 01:58:16,420
look

8291
01:58:16,420 --> 01:58:17,000
proper

8292
01:58:17,000 --> 01:58:17,480
you know

8293
01:58:17,480 --> 01:58:17,820
picture

8294
01:58:17,820 --> 01:58:18,080
back

8295
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:18,240
or

8296
01:58:18,240 --> 01:58:18,640
better

8297
01:58:18,640 --> 01:58:19,760
now

8298
01:58:19,760 --> 01:58:20,080
you

8299
01:58:20,080 --> 01:58:20,320
best

8300
01:58:20,320 --> 01:58:20,560
out

8301
01:58:20,560 --> 01:58:20,720
that

8302
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:20,960
picture

8303
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:28,320
one of

8304
01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:28,800
the more

8305
01:58:28,800 --> 01:58:29,900
the criticism

8306
01:58:29,900 --> 01:58:30,580
that is

8307
01:58:30,580 --> 01:58:31,520
constant

8308
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:33,500
is that

8309
01:58:33,500 --> 01:58:34,300
damage has

8310
01:58:34,300 --> 01:58:35,080
occurred

8311
01:58:35,080 --> 01:58:36,020
because of

8312
01:58:36,020 --> 01:58:36,500
Rikulix

8313
01:58:36,500 --> 01:58:38,860
I can't

8314
01:58:38,860 --> 01:58:39,660
find it

8315
01:58:39,660 --> 01:58:40,180
yet

8316
01:58:40,180 --> 01:58:41,920
do you

8317
01:58:41,920 --> 01:58:42,840
have a

8318
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:43,400
reason

8319
01:58:43,400 --> 01:58:44,380
well

8320
01:58:44,380 --> 01:58:44,740
there's

8321
01:58:44,740 --> 01:58:46,080
it's a

8322
01:58:46,080 --> 01:58:46,960
rhetorical

8323
01:58:46,960 --> 01:58:47,360
trick

8324
01:58:47,360 --> 01:58:48,620
so

8325
01:58:48,620 --> 01:58:50,580
yeah

8326
01:58:50,580 --> 01:58:51,480
there's

8327
01:58:51,480 --> 01:58:51,500
there's

8328
01:58:51,500 --> 01:58:51,660
I

8329
01:58:51,660 --> 01:58:52,160
understand

8330
01:58:52,160 --> 01:58:52,440
the

8331
01:58:52,440 --> 01:58:52,960
case

8332
01:58:52,960 --> 01:58:53,480
against

8333
01:58:53,480 --> 01:58:53,920
your

8334
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:54,280
vision

8335
01:58:54,280 --> 01:58:55,680
obviously

8336
01:58:55,680 --> 01:58:55,880
we're

8337
01:58:55,880 --> 01:58:56,260
synthetic

8338
01:58:56,260 --> 01:58:56,520
too

8339
01:58:56,520 --> 01:58:56,860
so

8340
01:58:56,860 --> 01:59:00,020
up until

8341
01:59:00,020 --> 01:59:01,440
collateral

8342
01:59:01,440 --> 01:59:01,880
murder

8343
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:03,500
we were

8344
01:59:03,500 --> 01:59:04,260
a cause

8345
01:59:04,260 --> 01:59:04,700
celebrity

8346
01:59:04,700 --> 01:59:05,020
in the

8347
01:59:05,020 --> 01:59:05,220
United

8348
01:59:05,220 --> 01:59:05,620
States

8349
01:59:05,620 --> 01:59:05,900
actually

8350
01:59:05,900 --> 01:59:06,700
still a cause

8351
01:59:06,700 --> 01:59:07,120
celebrity

8352
01:59:07,120 --> 01:59:07,620
but it's

8353
01:59:07,620 --> 01:59:08,580
in a

8354
01:59:08,580 --> 01:59:09,720
smaller

8355
01:59:09,720 --> 01:59:10,640
libertarian

8356
01:59:10,640 --> 01:59:11,780
or left

8357
01:59:11,780 --> 01:59:12,060
wing

8358
01:59:12,060 --> 01:59:15,260
or libertarian

8359
01:59:15,260 --> 01:59:15,520
right

8360
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:15,700
wing

8361
01:59:15,700 --> 01:59:16,140
community

8362
01:59:16,140 --> 01:59:16,480
now

8363
01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:18,580
but

8364
01:59:18,580 --> 01:59:22,440
and

8365
01:59:22,440 --> 01:59:22,840
across

8366
01:59:22,840 --> 01:59:24,220
according to

8367
01:59:24,220 --> 01:59:24,480
Reuters

8368
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:25,360
across 24

8369
01:59:25,360 --> 01:59:25,900
countries

8370
01:59:25,900 --> 01:59:27,340
we have

8371
01:59:27,340 --> 01:59:28,980
over three

8372
01:59:28,980 --> 01:59:29,740
quarters support

8373
01:59:29,740 --> 01:59:30,100
of the

8374
01:59:30,100 --> 01:59:31,140
general population

8375
01:59:31,140 --> 01:59:32,780
of 24

8376
01:59:32,780 --> 01:59:33,300
countries

8377
01:59:33,300 --> 01:59:34,120
it's the worst

8378
01:59:34,120 --> 01:59:34,500
in the United

8379
01:59:34,500 --> 01:59:34,860
States

8380
01:59:34,860 --> 01:59:36,220
so we have

8381
01:59:36,220 --> 01:59:37,380
support

8382
01:59:37,380 --> 01:59:39,700
over 40%

8383
01:59:39,700 --> 01:59:40,200
of the population

8384
01:59:40,200 --> 01:59:40,800
which is pretty

8385
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:41,480
good actually

8386
01:59:41,480 --> 01:59:42,340
considering what's

8387
01:59:42,340 --> 01:59:42,800
been happening

8388
01:59:42,800 --> 01:59:46,560
so as a

8389
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:48,180
result of

8390
01:59:48,180 --> 01:59:50,680
embarrassing

8391
01:59:50,680 --> 01:59:52,420
the US

8392
01:59:52,420 --> 01:59:54,220
military

8393
01:59:54,220 --> 01:59:55,500
and the

8394
01:59:55,500 --> 01:59:55,820
diplomatic

8395
01:59:55,820 --> 01:59:56,480
class

8396
01:59:56,480 --> 01:59:57,840
we have

8397
01:59:57,840 --> 01:59:58,560
had a

8398
01:59:58,560 --> 01:59:59,380
counter attack

8399
01:59:59,380 --> 02:00:01,440
and that

8400
02:00:01,440 --> 02:00:02,040
counter attack

8401
02:00:02,040 --> 02:00:03,220
is significant

8402
02:00:03,220 --> 02:00:04,220
this is a

8403
02:00:04,220 --> 02:00:05,280
very significant

8404
02:00:05,280 --> 02:00:05,960
power group

8405
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:07,560
and it's

8406
02:00:07,560 --> 02:00:08,820
a power group

8407
02:00:08,820 --> 02:00:09,320
that is not

8408
02:00:09,320 --> 02:00:09,840
just at the

8409
02:00:09,840 --> 02:00:10,240
top of the

8410
02:00:10,240 --> 02:00:10,660
White House

8411
02:00:10,660 --> 02:00:11,020
it's not

8412
02:00:11,020 --> 02:00:11,500
just a few

8413
02:00:11,500 --> 02:00:11,940
generals

8414
02:00:11,940 --> 02:00:12,860
rather

8415
02:00:12,860 --> 02:00:13,700
it is all

8416
02:00:13,700 --> 02:00:14,160
the people

8417
02:00:14,160 --> 02:00:15,000
connected to

8418
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:15,580
and profiting

8419
02:00:15,580 --> 02:00:16,020
from that

8420
02:00:16,020 --> 02:00:16,360
system

8421
02:00:16,360 --> 02:00:18,120
and that's

8422
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:18,680
about a

8423
02:00:18,680 --> 02:00:19,100
third of

8424
02:00:19,100 --> 02:00:19,380
the US

8425
02:00:19,380 --> 02:00:19,920
population

8426
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:21,040
so

8427
02:00:21,040 --> 02:00:22,640
all the

8428
02:00:22,640 --> 02:00:23,420
way from

8429
02:00:23,420 --> 02:00:24,940
Chelsea

8430
02:00:24,940 --> 02:00:25,320
Clinton

8431
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:27,220
down to

8432
02:00:27,220 --> 02:00:28,440
someone in

8433
02:00:28,440 --> 02:00:28,840
the gutters

8434
02:00:28,840 --> 02:00:29,320
of San

8435
02:00:29,320 --> 02:00:29,780
Antonio

8436
02:00:29,780 --> 02:00:30,560
whose brother

8437
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:31,180
is deployed

8438
02:00:31,180 --> 02:00:31,760
in Iraq

8439
02:00:31,760 --> 02:00:35,160
there are

8440
02:00:35,160 --> 02:00:36,600
900,000

8441
02:00:36,600 --> 02:00:37,140
people in

8442
02:00:37,140 --> 02:00:37,620
nine states

8443
02:00:37,620 --> 02:00:38,000
with top

8444
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:38,260
secret

8445
02:00:38,260 --> 02:00:38,700
security

8446
02:00:38,700 --> 02:00:39,380
clearances

8447
02:00:39,380 --> 02:00:39,900
at this

8448
02:00:39,900 --> 02:00:40,300
moment

8449
02:00:40,300 --> 02:00:42,300
there are

8450
02:00:42,300 --> 02:00:42,760
two and a

8451
02:00:42,760 --> 02:00:43,000
half

8452
02:00:43,000 --> 02:00:43,340
million

8453
02:00:43,340 --> 02:00:44,060
that have

8454
02:00:44,060 --> 02:00:47,020
classified

8455
02:00:47,020 --> 02:00:48,060
security

8456
02:00:48,060 --> 02:00:48,480
clearances

8457
02:00:48,480 --> 02:00:52,200
if we go

8458
02:00:52,200 --> 02:00:52,620
back

8459
02:00:52,620 --> 02:00:53,520
over the

8460
02:00:53,520 --> 02:00:54,020
past 20

8461
02:00:54,020 --> 02:00:54,400
years and

8462
02:00:54,400 --> 02:00:54,760
ask how

8463
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:55,240
many people

8464
02:00:55,240 --> 02:00:55,760
had security

8465
02:00:55,760 --> 02:00:56,220
clearances

8466
02:00:56,220 --> 02:00:57,740
maybe it's

8467
02:00:57,740 --> 02:00:59,060
15 million

8468
02:00:59,060 --> 02:01:00,620
if you then

8469
02:01:00,620 --> 02:01:01,040
go and look

8470
02:01:01,040 --> 02:01:01,640
at all their

8471
02:01:01,640 --> 02:01:02,120
spouses

8472
02:01:02,120 --> 02:01:03,620
and business

8473
02:01:03,620 --> 02:01:04,060
partners

8474
02:01:04,060 --> 02:01:04,820
and children

8475
02:01:04,820 --> 02:01:07,000
we're looking

8476
02:01:07,000 --> 02:01:07,380
at something

8477
02:01:07,380 --> 02:01:08,220
like 30%

8478
02:01:08,220 --> 02:01:08,460
of the

8479
02:01:08,460 --> 02:01:08,800
population

8480
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:09,080
of the

8481
02:01:09,080 --> 02:01:09,180
United

8482
02:01:09,180 --> 02:01:09,560
States

8483
02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:10,680
is one

8484
02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:11,100
degree

8485
02:01:11,100 --> 02:01:12,560
removed

8486
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:13,320
from

8487
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:14,780
that

8488
02:01:14,780 --> 02:01:16,020
way of

8489
02:01:16,020 --> 02:01:16,260
living

8490
02:01:16,260 --> 02:01:17,380
and that

8491
02:01:17,380 --> 02:01:18,100
ideological

8492
02:01:18,100 --> 02:01:18,640
structure

8493
02:01:18,640 --> 02:01:18,980
and that

8494
02:01:18,980 --> 02:01:19,480
patronage

8495
02:01:19,480 --> 02:01:19,820
system

8496
02:01:19,820 --> 02:01:21,660
so it's

8497
02:01:21,660 --> 02:01:23,620
quite difficult

8498
02:01:23,620 --> 02:01:24,140
in the United

8499
02:01:24,140 --> 02:01:24,740
States to

8500
02:01:24,740 --> 02:01:25,420
say something

8501
02:01:25,420 --> 02:01:25,920
that is

8502
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:26,380
against that

8503
02:01:26,380 --> 02:01:26,720
system

8504
02:01:26,720 --> 02:01:29,460
and the

8505
02:01:29,460 --> 02:01:29,740
New York

8506
02:01:29,740 --> 02:01:30,380
Times has

8507
02:01:30,380 --> 02:01:32,000
found to

8508
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:32,520
its peril

8509
02:01:32,520 --> 02:01:33,240
when it

8510
02:01:33,240 --> 02:01:34,180
tries to

8511
02:01:34,180 --> 02:01:34,780
speak out

8512
02:01:34,780 --> 02:01:35,280
against it

8513
02:01:35,280 --> 02:01:37,040
and so

8514
02:01:37,040 --> 02:01:38,020
in its

8515
02:01:38,020 --> 02:01:39,040
relationships

8516
02:01:39,040 --> 02:01:40,740
with us

8517
02:01:40,740 --> 02:01:41,040
when you

8518
02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:41,700
publish

8519
02:01:41,700 --> 02:01:42,300
material

8520
02:01:42,300 --> 02:01:42,680
had to

8521
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:43,320
react very

8522
02:01:43,320 --> 02:01:44,720
defensively

8523
02:01:44,720 --> 02:01:48,300
in a way

8524
02:01:48,300 --> 02:01:48,620
to

8525
02:01:48,620 --> 02:01:51,040
someone

8526
02:01:51,040 --> 02:01:51,740
outside

8527
02:01:51,740 --> 02:01:54,620
I think

8528
02:01:54,620 --> 02:01:54,840
even

8529
02:01:54,840 --> 02:01:55,240
traditional

8530
02:01:55,240 --> 02:01:55,580
US

8531
02:01:55,580 --> 02:01:55,900
journals

8532
02:01:55,900 --> 02:01:56,160
think

8533
02:01:56,160 --> 02:01:56,500
this

8534
02:01:56,500 --> 02:01:58,040
is

8535
02:01:58,040 --> 02:01:58,500
it is

8536
02:01:58,500 --> 02:01:58,940
sickening

8537
02:01:58,940 --> 02:01:59,520
to see

8538
02:01:59,520 --> 02:02:01,080
a

8539
02:02:01,080 --> 02:02:02,940
newspaper

8540
02:02:02,940 --> 02:02:03,480
of any

8541
02:02:03,480 --> 02:02:04,120
strength

8542
02:02:04,120 --> 02:02:06,160
saying

8543
02:02:06,160 --> 02:02:07,140
literally

8544
02:02:07,140 --> 02:02:08,440
how pleased

8545
02:02:08,440 --> 02:02:09,560
those words

8546
02:02:09,560 --> 02:02:10,520
the White

8547
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:11,140
House was

8548
02:02:11,140 --> 02:02:12,040
with its

8549
02:02:12,040 --> 02:02:12,440
behaviour

8550
02:02:12,440 --> 02:02:14,640
so

8551
02:02:14,640 --> 02:02:16,360
if we

8552
02:02:16,360 --> 02:02:16,640
look at

8553
02:02:16,640 --> 02:02:16,960
the

8554
02:02:16,960 --> 02:02:18,240
attacks

8555
02:02:18,240 --> 02:02:18,580
on us

8556
02:02:18,580 --> 02:02:19,420
they always

8557
02:02:19,420 --> 02:02:20,180
talk about

8558
02:02:20,180 --> 02:02:20,920
the words

8559
02:02:20,920 --> 02:02:23,040
placed

8560
02:02:23,040 --> 02:02:23,860
people

8561
02:02:23,860 --> 02:02:24,580
at risk

8562
02:02:24,580 --> 02:02:26,680
but risk

8563
02:02:26,680 --> 02:02:27,420
relative to

8564
02:02:27,420 --> 02:02:27,740
what

8565
02:02:27,740 --> 02:02:29,220
right now

8566
02:02:29,220 --> 02:02:29,860
we are at

8567
02:02:29,860 --> 02:02:30,560
risk of a

8568
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:31,160
meteorite

8569
02:02:31,160 --> 02:02:32,160
passing through

8570
02:02:32,160 --> 02:02:32,580
the roof of

8571
02:02:32,580 --> 02:02:32,960
this house

8572
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:33,300
and killing

8573
02:02:33,300 --> 02:02:33,780
us all

8574
02:02:33,780 --> 02:02:34,880
that is a

8575
02:02:34,880 --> 02:02:35,180
risk

8576
02:02:35,180 --> 02:02:35,520
it is

8577
02:02:35,520 --> 02:02:35,800
true

8578
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:38,140
but is

8579
02:02:38,140 --> 02:02:39,200
it a

8580
02:02:39,200 --> 02:02:39,820
proportionate

8581
02:02:39,820 --> 02:02:40,180
risk

8582
02:02:40,180 --> 02:02:40,980
is it a

8583
02:02:40,980 --> 02:02:41,340
risk that

8584
02:02:41,340 --> 02:02:42,420
is significant

8585
02:02:42,420 --> 02:02:42,860
enough that

8586
02:02:42,860 --> 02:02:43,280
is even

8587
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:43,900
worth speaking

8588
02:02:43,900 --> 02:02:44,280
about

8589
02:02:44,280 --> 02:02:45,380
well the

8590
02:02:45,380 --> 02:02:45,820
answer is

8591
02:02:45,820 --> 02:02:46,080
no

8592
02:02:46,080 --> 02:02:48,680
similarly

8593
02:02:48,680 --> 02:02:49,080
with the

8594
02:02:49,080 --> 02:02:49,220
word

8595
02:02:49,220 --> 02:02:49,840
possibility

8596
02:02:49,840 --> 02:02:51,100
there is a

8597
02:02:51,100 --> 02:02:51,880
possibility a

8598
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:52,600
meteorite could

8599
02:02:52,600 --> 02:02:54,080
descend on

8600
02:02:54,080 --> 02:02:54,660
us all

8601
02:02:54,660 --> 02:02:55,300
in this

8602
02:02:55,300 --> 02:02:55,700
moment

8603
02:02:55,700 --> 02:02:57,020
but it is

8604
02:02:57,020 --> 02:02:57,280
not a

8605
02:02:57,280 --> 02:02:57,700
probability

8606
02:02:57,700 --> 02:03:00,000
so these

8607
02:03:00,000 --> 02:03:00,540
rhetorical

8608
02:03:00,540 --> 02:03:01,000
tricks are

8609
02:03:01,000 --> 02:03:01,720
often used

8610
02:03:01,720 --> 02:03:02,920
by people

8611
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:03,560
who are

8612
02:03:03,560 --> 02:03:05,720
making

8613
02:03:05,720 --> 02:03:06,520
their argument

8614
02:03:06,520 --> 02:03:07,960
related to

8615
02:03:07,960 --> 02:03:08,880
security

8616
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:09,700
that there is

8617
02:03:09,700 --> 02:03:10,300
a risk of

8618
02:03:10,300 --> 02:03:10,560
something

8619
02:03:10,560 --> 02:03:10,940
there is a

8620
02:03:10,940 --> 02:03:11,500
possibility of

8621
02:03:11,500 --> 02:03:11,760
something

8622
02:03:11,760 --> 02:03:14,020
what has

8623
02:03:14,020 --> 02:03:14,620
to be done

8624
02:03:14,620 --> 02:03:15,400
is

8625
02:03:15,400 --> 02:03:16,900
people need

8626
02:03:16,900 --> 02:03:17,320
to engage

8627
02:03:17,320 --> 02:03:17,600
in sort

8628
02:03:17,600 --> 02:03:17,680
of

8629
02:03:17,680 --> 02:03:18,180
intellectual

8630
02:03:18,180 --> 02:03:20,320
defense

8631
02:03:20,320 --> 02:03:20,660
against

8632
02:03:20,660 --> 02:03:21,260
manipulation

8633
02:03:21,260 --> 02:03:22,140
by rhetoric

8634
02:03:22,140 --> 02:03:22,960
by understanding

8635
02:03:22,960 --> 02:03:23,300
that if

8636
02:03:23,300 --> 02:03:23,720
someone

8637
02:03:23,720 --> 02:03:25,780
mentions that

8638
02:03:25,780 --> 02:03:26,120
there is a

8639
02:03:26,120 --> 02:03:26,640
risk without

8640
02:03:26,640 --> 02:03:27,560
saying the

8641
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:28,240
risk is

8642
02:03:28,240 --> 02:03:30,240
higher than

8643
02:03:30,240 --> 02:03:30,720
crossing the

8644
02:03:30,720 --> 02:03:31,020
road

8645
02:03:31,020 --> 02:03:32,480
or the risk

8646
02:03:32,480 --> 02:03:33,480
is twice that

8647
02:03:33,480 --> 02:03:34,040
of being stung

8648
02:03:34,040 --> 02:03:34,560
by a bee

8649
02:03:34,560 --> 02:03:35,400
then you must

8650
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:36,140
ignore it

8651
02:03:36,140 --> 02:03:37,420
similarly with

8652
02:03:37,420 --> 02:03:38,000
possibility

8653
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:39,660
versus probability

8654
02:03:39,660 --> 02:03:40,860
I can do

8655
02:03:40,860 --> 02:03:41,260
all of this

8656
02:03:41,260 --> 02:03:41,660
in my head

8657
02:03:41,660 --> 02:03:41,880
too

8658
02:03:41,880 --> 02:03:43,720
are there

8659
02:03:43,720 --> 02:03:44,480
examples

8660
02:03:44,480 --> 02:03:45,640
where a

8661
02:03:45,640 --> 02:03:46,800
positive outcome

8662
02:03:46,800 --> 02:03:47,960
that can be

8663
02:03:47,960 --> 02:03:49,320
directly traced

8664
02:03:49,320 --> 02:03:50,460
to wikileaks

8665
02:03:50,460 --> 02:03:51,680
in the political

8666
02:03:51,680 --> 02:03:52,120
sphere

8667
02:03:52,120 --> 02:03:52,600
that you

8668
02:03:52,600 --> 02:03:53,020
want to

8669
02:03:53,020 --> 02:03:53,400
highlight

8670
02:03:53,400 --> 02:03:57,000
a specific

8671
02:03:57,000 --> 02:03:57,580
tangible

8672
02:03:57,580 --> 02:03:58,560
positive outcome

8673
02:03:58,560 --> 02:04:01,180
although the

8674
02:04:01,180 --> 02:04:01,880
most significant

8675
02:04:01,880 --> 02:04:02,680
one seems to

8676
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:03,160
be the

8677
02:04:03,160 --> 02:04:04,340
Arab Spring

8678
02:04:04,340 --> 02:04:09,880
for Amnesty

8679
02:04:09,880 --> 02:04:10,640
International

8680
02:04:10,640 --> 02:04:11,200
did in its

8681
02:04:11,200 --> 02:04:11,900
latest report

8682
02:04:11,900 --> 02:04:12,780
and Tunisian

8683
02:04:12,780 --> 02:04:13,580
professors did

8684
02:04:13,580 --> 02:04:16,000
because of my

8685
02:04:16,000 --> 02:04:16,800
direct involvement

8686
02:04:16,800 --> 02:04:18,640
it would be

8687
02:04:18,640 --> 02:04:19,700
unseemly for me

8688
02:04:19,700 --> 02:04:21,800
to argue

8689
02:04:21,800 --> 02:04:22,580
that directly

8690
02:04:22,580 --> 02:04:24,500
and I'm not

8691
02:04:24,500 --> 02:04:25,740
certain about

8692
02:04:25,740 --> 02:04:26,140
directly

8693
02:04:26,140 --> 02:04:26,900
I am certain

8694
02:04:26,900 --> 02:04:27,280
that

8695
02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:29,380
we affected

8696
02:04:29,380 --> 02:04:29,700
it

8697
02:04:29,700 --> 02:04:30,840
and were

8698
02:04:30,840 --> 02:04:31,560
deeply involved

8699
02:04:31,560 --> 02:04:33,540
I'm certain

8700
02:04:33,540 --> 02:04:33,840
that we

8701
02:04:33,840 --> 02:04:37,960
and that's

8702
02:04:37,960 --> 02:04:39,040
that is really

8703
02:04:39,040 --> 02:04:40,140
something of

8704
02:04:40,140 --> 02:04:40,820
great moment

8705
02:04:40,820 --> 02:04:43,900
something I am

8706
02:04:43,900 --> 02:04:44,580
certain about

8707
02:04:44,580 --> 02:04:45,100
is that we

8708
02:04:45,100 --> 02:04:45,980
changed the

8709
02:04:45,980 --> 02:04:46,860
outcome of

8710
02:04:46,860 --> 02:04:48,180
the Kenyan

8711
02:04:48,180 --> 02:04:48,800
election in

8712
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:49,480
2007

8713
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:51,060
there's been

8714
02:04:51,060 --> 02:04:53,460
many ministers

8715
02:04:53,460 --> 02:04:55,080
whose scalps

8716
02:04:55,080 --> 02:04:55,600
were taken

8717
02:04:55,600 --> 02:04:57,040
and people

8718
02:04:57,040 --> 02:04:57,460
being forced

8719
02:04:57,460 --> 02:04:57,980
to resign

8720
02:04:57,980 --> 02:05:00,460
and so on

8721
02:05:00,460 --> 02:05:02,080
those are

8722
02:05:02,080 --> 02:05:02,580
concrete and

8723
02:05:02,580 --> 02:05:03,360
clear actions

8724
02:05:03,360 --> 02:05:06,680
and one might

8725
02:05:06,680 --> 02:05:07,260
argue that

8726
02:05:07,260 --> 02:05:07,700
they're positive

8727
02:05:07,700 --> 02:05:08,220
if you didn't

8728
02:05:08,220 --> 02:05:08,820
like the guy

8729
02:05:08,820 --> 02:05:09,500
and you would

8730
02:05:09,500 --> 02:05:09,880
argue that

8731
02:05:09,880 --> 02:05:10,220
they're negative

8732
02:05:10,220 --> 02:05:10,620
if you did

8733
02:05:10,620 --> 02:05:11,100
like the guy

8734
02:05:11,100 --> 02:05:11,540
so I don't

8735
02:05:11,540 --> 02:05:12,080
really want to

8736
02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:12,500
mention those

8737
02:05:12,500 --> 02:05:13,320
yes if I go

8738
02:05:13,320 --> 02:05:13,760
back to your

8739
02:05:13,760 --> 02:05:14,420
earlier argument

8740
02:05:14,420 --> 02:05:16,600
the effect

8741
02:05:16,600 --> 02:05:17,120
on a single

8742
02:05:17,120 --> 02:05:18,100
individual is

8743
02:05:18,100 --> 02:05:18,660
not the

8744
02:05:18,660 --> 02:05:19,320
actual goal

8745
02:05:19,320 --> 02:05:20,480
the actual

8746
02:05:20,480 --> 02:05:21,380
effect is to

8747
02:05:21,380 --> 02:05:21,840
change the

8748
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:22,600
system in

8749
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:23,160
some kind of

8750
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:23,480
another way

8751
02:05:23,480 --> 02:05:23,800
because you

8752
02:05:23,800 --> 02:05:24,140
make the

8753
02:05:24,140 --> 02:05:25,240
argument that

8754
02:05:25,240 --> 02:05:25,980
these systems

8755
02:05:25,980 --> 02:05:27,560
have become

8756
02:05:27,560 --> 02:05:28,600
fiscalized

8757
02:05:28,600 --> 02:05:29,660
they're static

8758
02:05:29,660 --> 02:05:30,360
independent of

8759
02:05:30,360 --> 02:05:30,880
any pressure

8760
02:05:30,880 --> 02:05:32,440
and so

8761
02:05:32,440 --> 02:05:34,120
an example

8762
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:34,900
of a truly

8763
02:05:34,900 --> 02:05:36,660
large influence

8764
02:05:36,660 --> 02:05:37,880
would be a

8765
02:05:37,880 --> 02:05:38,320
revolution

8766
02:05:38,320 --> 02:05:41,200
well it's

8767
02:05:41,200 --> 02:05:41,680
something that

8768
02:05:41,680 --> 02:05:43,800
is you can

8769
02:05:43,800 --> 02:05:44,280
make many

8770
02:05:44,280 --> 02:05:45,280
large influences

8771
02:05:45,280 --> 02:05:45,980
without these

8772
02:05:45,980 --> 02:05:46,280
sort of

8773
02:05:46,280 --> 02:05:47,020
dichotomatic

8774
02:05:47,020 --> 02:05:48,880
events but

8775
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:49,580
the dichotomic

8776
02:05:49,580 --> 02:05:50,900
events are

8777
02:05:50,900 --> 02:05:51,680
easy to

8778
02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:53,860
binary events

8779
02:05:53,860 --> 02:05:54,900
are easy to

8780
02:05:54,900 --> 02:05:55,500
talk about

8781
02:05:55,500 --> 02:05:55,880
and it's

8782
02:05:55,880 --> 02:05:56,500
provable

8783
02:05:56,500 --> 02:05:57,040
it's also

8784
02:05:57,040 --> 02:05:57,420
it's a

8785
02:05:57,420 --> 02:05:57,660
marketing

8786
02:05:57,660 --> 02:05:57,900
problem

8787
02:05:57,900 --> 02:05:58,200
you don't

8788
02:05:58,200 --> 02:05:58,440
have a

8789
02:05:58,440 --> 02:05:58,760
marketing

8790
02:05:58,760 --> 02:05:59,140
story

8791
02:05:59,140 --> 02:06:00,140
so

8792
02:06:00,140 --> 02:06:01,340
someone

8793
02:06:01,340 --> 02:06:02,580
one party

8794
02:06:02,580 --> 02:06:02,980
or another

8795
02:06:02,980 --> 02:06:03,480
party wins

8796
02:06:03,480 --> 02:06:03,900
the election

8797
02:06:03,900 --> 02:06:04,840
and it

8798
02:06:04,840 --> 02:06:05,360
changed

8799
02:06:05,360 --> 02:06:06,660
that's a

8800
02:06:06,660 --> 02:06:07,220
very clear

8801
02:06:07,220 --> 02:06:07,520
sort of

8802
02:06:07,520 --> 02:06:07,860
outcome

8803
02:06:07,860 --> 02:06:08,180
there's a

8804
02:06:08,180 --> 02:06:08,460
revolution

8805
02:06:08,460 --> 02:06:09,020
one group

8806
02:06:09,020 --> 02:06:10,060
was in

8807
02:06:10,060 --> 02:06:10,280
power

8808
02:06:10,280 --> 02:06:10,680
then another

8809
02:06:10,680 --> 02:06:11,000
group is

8810
02:06:11,000 --> 02:06:11,300
in power

8811
02:06:11,300 --> 02:06:11,540
it's a

8812
02:06:11,540 --> 02:06:12,100
very clear

8813
02:06:12,100 --> 02:06:14,660
change

8814
02:06:14,660 --> 02:06:15,480
I suspect

8815
02:06:15,480 --> 02:06:15,880
the other

8816
02:06:15,880 --> 02:06:16,580
changes that

8817
02:06:16,580 --> 02:06:18,060
we have

8818
02:06:18,060 --> 02:06:18,820
had such

8819
02:06:18,820 --> 02:06:19,660
as

8820
02:06:19,660 --> 02:06:22,040
liberalization

8821
02:06:22,040 --> 02:06:23,600
of the

8822
02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:23,920
publishing

8823
02:06:23,920 --> 02:06:24,460
environment

8824
02:06:24,460 --> 02:06:25,600
I suspect

8825
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:26,140
is actually

8826
02:06:26,140 --> 02:06:26,480
the most

8827
02:06:26,480 --> 02:06:26,960
significant

8828
02:06:26,960 --> 02:06:28,080
one that

8829
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:29,400
we've been

8830
02:06:29,400 --> 02:06:29,980
involved in

8831
02:06:29,980 --> 02:06:30,720
and something

8832
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:31,160
we've pushed

8833
02:06:31,160 --> 02:06:31,480
for many

8834
02:06:31,480 --> 02:06:31,820
years

8835
02:06:31,820 --> 02:06:32,780
there's

8836
02:06:32,780 --> 02:06:34,700
no way

8837
02:06:34,700 --> 02:06:36,380
that what

8838
02:06:36,380 --> 02:06:36,880
we did

8839
02:06:36,880 --> 02:06:38,100
last year

8840
02:06:38,100 --> 02:06:39,700
we could

8841
02:06:39,700 --> 02:06:40,120
have done

8842
02:06:40,120 --> 02:06:40,880
four years

8843
02:06:40,880 --> 02:06:41,320
ago

8844
02:06:41,320 --> 02:06:43,440
it would

8845
02:06:43,440 --> 02:06:43,680
not have

8846
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:44,260
been possible

8847
02:06:44,260 --> 02:06:45,700
technologically

8848
02:06:45,700 --> 02:06:48,800
it was all

8849
02:06:48,800 --> 02:06:49,140
perfectly

8850
02:06:49,140 --> 02:06:49,560
possible

8851
02:06:49,560 --> 02:06:51,240
the difference

8852
02:06:51,240 --> 02:06:51,700
is

8853
02:06:51,700 --> 02:06:57,660
a shift

8854
02:06:57,660 --> 02:06:58,140
in status

8855
02:06:58,140 --> 02:06:58,500
quo

8856
02:06:58,500 --> 02:06:59,200
WikiLeaks

8857
02:06:59,200 --> 02:06:59,940
became

8858
02:06:59,940 --> 02:07:00,900
the status

8859
02:07:00,900 --> 02:07:01,200
quo

8860
02:07:01,200 --> 02:07:03,500
so

8861
02:07:03,500 --> 02:07:05,400
that wasn't

8862
02:07:05,400 --> 02:07:05,940
always so

8863
02:07:05,940 --> 02:07:06,380
during the

8864
02:07:06,380 --> 02:07:07,020
first two

8865
02:07:07,020 --> 02:07:07,520
years

8866
02:07:07,520 --> 02:07:08,020
we were

8867
02:07:08,020 --> 02:07:08,340
battling

8868
02:07:08,340 --> 02:07:08,880
for whether

8869
02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:09,380
we were

8870
02:07:09,380 --> 02:07:09,880
something that

8871
02:07:09,880 --> 02:07:10,480
was acceptable

8872
02:07:10,480 --> 02:07:10,960
to be on

8873
02:07:10,960 --> 02:07:11,260
the internet

8874
02:07:11,260 --> 02:07:11,620
or not

8875
02:07:11,620 --> 02:07:12,240
after two

8876
02:07:12,240 --> 02:07:12,560
years

8877
02:07:12,560 --> 02:07:13,000
and after

8878
02:07:13,000 --> 02:07:13,880
especially

8879
02:07:13,880 --> 02:07:14,280
after the

8880
02:07:14,280 --> 02:07:14,460
bank

8881
02:07:14,460 --> 02:07:14,920
julius bear

8882
02:07:14,920 --> 02:07:15,380
case

8883
02:07:15,380 --> 02:07:17,440
where we

8884
02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:17,780
were involved

8885
02:07:17,780 --> 02:07:18,480
in a big

8886
02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:19,380
legal case

8887
02:07:19,380 --> 02:07:19,740
in San

8888
02:07:19,740 --> 02:07:20,160
Francisco

8889
02:07:20,160 --> 02:07:22,440
on the

8890
02:07:22,440 --> 02:07:22,900
one hand

8891
02:07:22,900 --> 02:07:23,220
us

8892
02:07:23,220 --> 02:07:23,540
on the

8893
02:07:23,540 --> 02:07:23,680
other

8894
02:07:23,680 --> 02:07:24,100
hand

8895
02:07:24,100 --> 02:07:24,820
the

8896
02:07:24,820 --> 02:07:25,700
largest

8897
02:07:25,700 --> 02:07:26,160
private

8898
02:07:26,160 --> 02:07:26,720
swiss banking

8899
02:07:26,720 --> 02:07:27,200
concern

8900
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:27,500
bank

8901
02:07:27,500 --> 02:07:28,140
julius bear

8902
02:07:28,140 --> 02:07:29,720
that was

8903
02:07:29,720 --> 02:07:30,000
trying to

8904
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:30,300
shut us

8905
02:07:30,300 --> 02:07:30,560
down

8906
02:07:30,560 --> 02:07:32,720
which we

8907
02:07:32,720 --> 02:07:34,280
conclusively

8908
02:07:34,280 --> 02:07:34,600
won

8909
02:07:34,600 --> 02:07:36,520
and cost

8910
02:07:36,520 --> 02:07:36,900
them the

8911
02:07:36,900 --> 02:07:37,560
US IPO

8912
02:07:37,560 --> 02:07:39,240
as a result

8913
02:07:39,240 --> 02:07:41,580
that

8914
02:07:41,580 --> 02:07:42,420
sort of

8915
02:07:42,420 --> 02:07:42,780
sent out

8916
02:07:42,780 --> 02:07:43,220
a signal

8917
02:07:43,220 --> 02:07:44,380
that

8918
02:07:44,380 --> 02:07:45,560
there is

8919
02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:45,860
a

8920
02:07:45,860 --> 02:07:47,000
place

8921
02:07:47,000 --> 02:07:47,440
in the

8922
02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:47,780
world

8923
02:07:47,780 --> 02:07:49,120
for a

8924
02:07:49,120 --> 02:07:49,380
publisher

8925
02:07:49,380 --> 02:07:49,680
like

8926
02:07:49,680 --> 02:07:50,160
WikiLeaks

8927
02:07:50,160 --> 02:07:51,460
and then

8928
02:07:51,460 --> 02:07:52,260
we started

8929
02:07:52,260 --> 02:07:52,940
to cement

8930
02:07:52,940 --> 02:07:53,560
that place

8931
02:07:53,560 --> 02:07:54,000
as time

8932
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:55,560
went by

8933
02:07:55,560 --> 02:07:57,340
and now

8934
02:07:57,340 --> 02:07:57,980
we have

8935
02:07:57,980 --> 02:07:58,260
really

8936
02:07:58,260 --> 02:07:58,820
cemented

8937
02:07:58,820 --> 02:07:59,040
it

8938
02:07:59,040 --> 02:07:59,840
because

8939
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:00,200
we

8940
02:08:00,200 --> 02:08:04,000
had a

8941
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:04,740
case

8942
02:08:04,740 --> 02:08:05,100
where

8943
02:08:05,100 --> 02:08:05,420
the

8944
02:08:05,420 --> 02:08:05,720
Pentagon

8945
02:08:05,720 --> 02:08:06,480
stood up

8946
02:08:06,480 --> 02:08:07,140
in public

8947
02:08:07,140 --> 02:08:07,880
and gave

8948
02:08:07,880 --> 02:08:08,340
it 40

8949
02:08:08,340 --> 02:08:09,400
many times

8950
02:08:09,400 --> 02:08:09,760
actually

8951
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:10,620
but

8952
02:08:10,620 --> 02:08:12,840
back in

8953
02:08:12,840 --> 02:08:15,420
October

8954
02:08:15,420 --> 02:08:18,500
gave a

8955
02:08:18,500 --> 02:08:20,040
40 minute

8956
02:08:20,040 --> 02:08:20,840
press conference

8957
02:08:20,840 --> 02:08:22,520
with their

8958
02:08:22,520 --> 02:08:23,080
spokesperson

8959
02:08:23,080 --> 02:08:23,420
Jeff

8960
02:08:23,420 --> 02:08:23,860
Morrell

8961
02:08:23,860 --> 02:08:24,920
saying

8962
02:08:24,920 --> 02:08:25,340
that

8963
02:08:25,340 --> 02:08:28,220
Wikileaks

8964
02:08:28,220 --> 02:08:28,600
must

8965
02:08:28,600 --> 02:08:28,920
and me

8966
02:08:28,920 --> 02:08:29,400
personally

8967
02:08:29,400 --> 02:08:30,040
must

8968
02:08:30,040 --> 02:08:30,380
destroy

8969
02:08:30,380 --> 02:08:30,720
everything

8970
02:08:30,720 --> 02:08:31,000
we had

8971
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:31,300
previously

8972
02:08:31,300 --> 02:08:31,840
published

8973
02:08:31,840 --> 02:08:34,420
have been

8974
02:08:34,420 --> 02:08:35,540
derived

8975
02:08:35,540 --> 02:08:35,820
from the

8976
02:08:35,820 --> 02:08:36,100
sentiment

8977
02:08:36,100 --> 02:08:37,320
destroy

8978
02:08:37,320 --> 02:08:37,740
everything

8979
02:08:37,740 --> 02:08:37,940
we were

8980
02:08:37,940 --> 02:08:38,300
going to

8981
02:08:38,300 --> 02:08:38,700
publish

8982
02:08:38,700 --> 02:08:40,340
and

8983
02:08:40,340 --> 02:08:41,560
cease

8984
02:08:41,560 --> 02:08:42,280
dealing

8985
02:08:42,280 --> 02:08:42,700
with US

8986
02:08:42,700 --> 02:08:42,980
military

8987
02:08:42,980 --> 02:08:43,640
whistleblowers

8988
02:08:43,640 --> 02:08:45,220
the precise

8989
02:08:45,220 --> 02:08:45,860
phraseology

8990
02:08:45,860 --> 02:08:46,400
used was

8991
02:08:46,400 --> 02:08:46,800
return

8992
02:08:46,800 --> 02:08:47,180
everything

8993
02:08:47,180 --> 02:08:47,580
that we

8994
02:08:47,580 --> 02:08:47,880
had ever

8995
02:08:47,880 --> 02:08:48,300
published

8996
02:08:48,300 --> 02:08:49,140
return

8997
02:08:49,140 --> 02:08:49,480
everything

8998
02:08:49,480 --> 02:08:49,680
we were

8999
02:08:49,680 --> 02:08:50,060
going to

9000
02:08:50,060 --> 02:08:50,420
publish

9001
02:08:50,420 --> 02:08:51,420
and cease

9002
02:08:51,420 --> 02:08:52,240
soliciting

9003
02:08:52,240 --> 02:08:55,500
US

9004
02:08:55,500 --> 02:08:56,380
military

9005
02:08:56,380 --> 02:08:56,860
personnel

9006
02:08:56,860 --> 02:08:58,020
or US

9007
02:08:58,020 --> 02:08:58,360
government

9008
02:08:58,360 --> 02:08:58,880
personnel

9009
02:08:58,880 --> 02:09:03,500
or

9010
02:09:03,500 --> 02:09:05,480
the

9011
02:09:05,480 --> 02:09:05,820
Pentagon

9012
02:09:05,820 --> 02:09:06,160
would

9013
02:09:06,160 --> 02:09:06,780
compel us

9014
02:09:06,780 --> 02:09:07,080
to do

9015
02:09:07,080 --> 02:09:07,340
so

9016
02:09:07,340 --> 02:09:08,800
and when

9017
02:09:08,800 --> 02:09:09,440
asked by

9018
02:09:09,440 --> 02:09:09,720
the

9019
02:09:09,720 --> 02:09:10,040
journalist

9020
02:09:10,040 --> 02:09:10,540
at the

9021
02:09:10,540 --> 02:09:10,720
press

9022
02:09:10,720 --> 02:09:11,200
conference

9023
02:09:11,200 --> 02:09:12,160
what

9024
02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:12,680
mechanisms

9025
02:09:12,680 --> 02:09:13,000
do you

9026
02:09:13,000 --> 02:09:13,320
have to

9027
02:09:13,320 --> 02:09:13,660
compel

9028
02:09:13,660 --> 02:09:13,940
them

9029
02:09:13,940 --> 02:09:15,020
the

9030
02:09:15,020 --> 02:09:15,400
response

9031
02:09:15,400 --> 02:09:15,600
was

9032
02:09:15,600 --> 02:09:15,800
well

9033
02:09:15,800 --> 02:09:16,180
look

9034
02:09:16,180 --> 02:09:16,520
this is

9035
02:09:16,520 --> 02:09:16,660
the

9036
02:09:16,660 --> 02:09:16,980
Pentagon

9037
02:09:16,980 --> 02:09:17,320
we're

9038
02:09:17,320 --> 02:09:17,440
not

9039
02:09:17,440 --> 02:09:17,800
concerned

9040
02:09:17,800 --> 02:09:18,160
about

9041
02:09:18,160 --> 02:09:18,360
the

9042
02:09:18,360 --> 02:09:18,660
law

9043
02:09:18,660 --> 02:09:20,320
that's

9044
02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:20,940
perhaps

9045
02:09:20,940 --> 02:09:21,300
a matter

9046
02:09:21,300 --> 02:09:21,740
for

9047
02:09:21,740 --> 02:09:23,060
the

9048
02:09:23,060 --> 02:09:23,400
Department

9049
02:09:23,400 --> 02:09:23,900
of Justice

9050
02:09:23,900 --> 02:09:24,140
and

9051
02:09:24,140 --> 02:09:24,240
the

9052
02:09:24,240 --> 02:09:24,460
Department

9053
02:09:24,460 --> 02:09:24,800
of Justice

9054
02:09:24,800 --> 02:09:25,420
when you

9055
02:09:25,420 --> 02:09:25,720
watched

9056
02:09:25,720 --> 02:09:26,000
that

9057
02:09:26,000 --> 02:09:27,080
did you

9058
02:09:27,080 --> 02:09:27,340
get the

9059
02:09:27,340 --> 02:09:27,720
impression

9060
02:09:27,720 --> 02:09:28,020
that there

9061
02:09:28,020 --> 02:09:28,400
was just

9062
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:29,120
an unbelievable

9063
02:09:29,120 --> 02:09:30,000
level of

9064
02:09:30,000 --> 02:09:30,480
naivete

9065
02:09:30,480 --> 02:09:31,240
or lack

9066
02:09:31,240 --> 02:09:31,880
of understanding

9067
02:09:31,880 --> 02:09:32,280
about

9068
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:33,540
the actual

9069
02:09:33,540 --> 02:09:34,340
technology

9070
02:09:34,340 --> 02:09:34,900
and technical

9071
02:09:34,900 --> 02:09:35,560
aspects of

9072
02:09:35,560 --> 02:09:35,880
this that

9073
02:09:35,880 --> 02:09:36,200
would make

9074
02:09:36,200 --> 02:09:36,400
that

9075
02:09:36,400 --> 02:09:36,960
impossible

9076
02:09:36,960 --> 02:09:38,740
I did

9077
02:09:38,740 --> 02:09:39,520
but then

9078
02:09:39,520 --> 02:09:40,240
I later

9079
02:09:40,240 --> 02:09:40,680
on developed

9080
02:09:40,680 --> 02:09:40,920
a more

9081
02:09:40,920 --> 02:09:41,400
sophisticated

9082
02:09:41,400 --> 02:09:42,560
understanding

9083
02:09:42,560 --> 02:09:42,860
of what

9084
02:09:42,860 --> 02:09:43,240
was going

9085
02:09:43,240 --> 02:09:43,520
on in

9086
02:09:43,520 --> 02:09:43,640
that

9087
02:09:43,640 --> 02:09:43,860
press

9088
02:09:43,860 --> 02:09:43,960
I

9089
02:09:43,960 --> 02:09:44,160
usually

9090
02:09:44,160 --> 02:09:44,440
start

9091
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:44,600
out

9092
02:09:44,600 --> 02:09:44,800
very

9093
02:09:44,800 --> 02:09:45,600
unsophisticated

9094
02:09:45,600 --> 02:09:47,840
so what

9095
02:09:47,840 --> 02:09:48,780
was actually

9096
02:09:48,780 --> 02:09:49,560
going on

9097
02:09:49,560 --> 02:09:50,360
this was

9098
02:09:50,360 --> 02:09:50,580
a

9099
02:09:50,580 --> 02:09:51,700
carefully

9100
02:09:51,700 --> 02:09:52,500
I mean

9101
02:09:52,500 --> 02:09:53,080
it seems

9102
02:09:53,080 --> 02:09:53,480
ridiculous

9103
02:09:53,480 --> 02:09:53,980
why would

9104
02:09:53,980 --> 02:09:54,420
the Pentagon

9105
02:09:54,420 --> 02:09:55,380
act like

9106
02:09:55,380 --> 02:09:55,760
a victim

9107
02:09:55,760 --> 02:09:56,340
why would

9108
02:09:56,340 --> 02:09:56,680
they

9109
02:09:56,680 --> 02:09:57,860
look so

9110
02:09:57,860 --> 02:09:58,440
ridiculous

9111
02:09:58,440 --> 02:09:59,100
and powerless

9112
02:09:59,100 --> 02:09:59,680
why would

9113
02:09:59,680 --> 02:09:59,960
they

9114
02:09:59,960 --> 02:10:01,240
give a

9115
02:10:01,240 --> 02:10:01,640
demand

9116
02:10:01,640 --> 02:10:02,000
that they

9117
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:02,340
were not

9118
02:10:02,340 --> 02:10:02,760
capable

9119
02:10:02,760 --> 02:10:03,460
of fulfilling

9120
02:10:03,460 --> 02:10:04,080
it would

9121
02:10:04,080 --> 02:10:04,380
make them

9122
02:10:04,380 --> 02:10:04,820
look weak

9123
02:10:04,820 --> 02:10:08,480
it was

9124
02:10:08,480 --> 02:10:09,900
a carefully

9125
02:10:09,900 --> 02:10:10,420
constructed

9126
02:10:10,420 --> 02:10:11,300
legal message

9127
02:10:11,300 --> 02:10:12,460
designed

9128
02:10:12,460 --> 02:10:13,540
to embroil

9129
02:10:13,540 --> 02:10:13,840
us

9130
02:10:13,840 --> 02:10:14,060
in the

9131
02:10:14,060 --> 02:10:14,800
US Espionage

9132
02:10:14,800 --> 02:10:15,100
Act

9133
02:10:15,100 --> 02:10:17,120
it was

9134
02:10:17,120 --> 02:10:18,060
a notification

9135
02:10:18,060 --> 02:10:19,040
like you

9136
02:10:19,040 --> 02:10:19,420
see in

9137
02:10:19,420 --> 02:10:20,120
the newspapers

9138
02:10:20,120 --> 02:10:22,000
we demand

9139
02:10:22,000 --> 02:10:22,260
that you

9140
02:10:22,260 --> 02:10:22,820
do this

9141
02:10:22,820 --> 02:10:24,360
this is

9142
02:10:24,360 --> 02:10:24,740
the type

9143
02:10:24,740 --> 02:10:25,420
of information

9144
02:10:25,420 --> 02:10:26,120
it will

9145
02:10:26,120 --> 02:10:26,820
cause grave

9146
02:10:26,820 --> 02:10:27,240
harm to

9147
02:10:27,240 --> 02:10:27,420
US

9148
02:10:27,420 --> 02:10:27,660
national

9149
02:10:27,660 --> 02:10:28,200
security

9150
02:10:28,200 --> 02:10:29,260
we make

9151
02:10:29,260 --> 02:10:29,460
it a

9152
02:10:29,460 --> 02:10:29,660
press

9153
02:10:29,660 --> 02:10:30,040
conference

9154
02:10:30,040 --> 02:10:31,300
so we

9155
02:10:31,300 --> 02:10:31,780
can argue

9156
02:10:31,780 --> 02:10:33,220
that all

9157
02:10:33,220 --> 02:10:33,440
those

9158
02:10:33,440 --> 02:10:33,840
wikileaks

9159
02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:34,320
people have

9160
02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:34,760
seen it

9161
02:10:34,760 --> 02:10:36,420
then the

9162
02:10:36,420 --> 02:10:36,800
next thing

9163
02:10:36,800 --> 02:10:37,320
they publish

9164
02:10:37,320 --> 02:10:37,740
they will

9165
02:10:37,740 --> 02:10:38,220
demonstrate

9166
02:10:38,220 --> 02:10:38,780
intent

9167
02:10:38,780 --> 02:10:40,980
so despite

9168
02:10:40,980 --> 02:10:41,420
the fact

9169
02:10:41,420 --> 02:10:41,660
that they

9170
02:10:41,660 --> 02:10:41,960
have been

9171
02:10:41,960 --> 02:10:42,360
informed

9172
02:10:42,360 --> 02:10:42,860
it is

9173
02:10:42,860 --> 02:10:43,800
this

9174
02:10:43,800 --> 02:10:44,020
this

9175
02:10:44,020 --> 02:10:44,160
this

9176
02:10:44,160 --> 02:10:44,540
and this

9177
02:10:44,540 --> 02:10:44,780
they

9178
02:10:44,780 --> 02:10:44,960
did

9179
02:10:44,960 --> 02:10:45,340
anyway

9180
02:10:45,340 --> 02:10:45,700
therefore

9181
02:10:45,700 --> 02:10:45,900
they

9182
02:10:45,900 --> 02:10:46,140
have

9183
02:10:46,140 --> 02:10:46,340
an

9184
02:10:46,340 --> 02:10:46,620
intent

9185
02:10:46,620 --> 02:10:46,900
because

9186
02:10:46,900 --> 02:10:47,040
you

9187
02:10:47,040 --> 02:10:47,360
can't

9188
02:10:47,360 --> 02:10:47,940
accidentally

9189
02:10:47,940 --> 02:10:48,300
commit

9190
02:10:48,300 --> 02:10:49,700
espionage

9191
02:10:49,700 --> 02:10:51,100
that's why

9192
02:10:51,100 --> 02:10:51,580
the concern

9193
02:10:51,580 --> 02:10:52,200
of the past

9194
02:10:52,200 --> 02:10:52,500
is not

9195
02:10:52,500 --> 02:10:53,180
just for the present

9196
02:10:53,180 --> 02:10:55,940
because there has to be a pattern of practice

9197
02:10:55,940 --> 02:10:56,760
and as long as it's

9198
02:10:56,760 --> 02:10:58,440
in fact is a fresh instance

9199
02:10:58,440 --> 02:10:59,560
there is no pattern

9200
02:10:59,560 --> 02:11:04,500
but in saying no

9201
02:11:04,500 --> 02:11:05,540
we did quickly

9202
02:11:05,540 --> 02:11:06,980
actually before we understood

9203
02:11:06,980 --> 02:11:09,280
what the legal trap was

9204
02:11:09,280 --> 02:11:10,900
but in saying no

9205
02:11:10,900 --> 02:11:12,040
and then

9206
02:11:12,040 --> 02:11:14,620
in relatively short order

9207
02:11:14,620 --> 02:11:17,480
producing the Iraq war diaries

9208
02:11:17,480 --> 02:11:20,080
it's one of the best things we've ever done

9209
02:11:20,080 --> 02:11:38,120
increasingly using wikileaks information as a source and done you know sometimes done

9210
02:11:38,120 --> 02:11:56,360
without even mentioning that it was a source and done you know sometimes done without even mentioning that it was a source sometimes you know there's it's a sociology of information which is fascinating

9211
02:11:56,360 --> 02:11:57,740
in the beginning they wouldn't

9212
02:11:57,740 --> 02:11:58,860
now they now they do

9213
02:11:58,860 --> 02:12:01,800
it gives them more prestige now to say that it came from us

9214
02:12:01,800 --> 02:12:02,080
than to

9215
02:12:02,080 --> 02:12:02,520
i know

9216
02:12:02,520 --> 02:12:02,980
i know

9217
02:12:02,980 --> 02:12:03,580
i know

9218
02:12:03,580 --> 02:12:04,020
it is

9219
02:12:04,020 --> 02:12:06,740
i'll just show you something funny

9220
02:12:06,740 --> 02:12:09,720
i'll just show you something

9221
02:12:09,720 --> 02:12:11,360
do you like our slogan

9222
02:12:11,360 --> 02:12:12,200
keep calling

9223
02:12:12,200 --> 02:12:12,620
keep calling

9224
02:12:12,620 --> 02:12:12,920
and carrying

9225
02:12:12,920 --> 02:12:14,660
that's the second world war

9226
02:12:14,660 --> 02:12:17,680
that looks like an original one though

9227
02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:19,040
no we were admiring

9228
02:12:19,040 --> 02:12:19,660
we were admiring

9229
02:12:19,660 --> 02:12:20,940
pictures of all of

9230
02:12:20,940 --> 02:12:21,540
all of

9231
02:12:21,540 --> 02:12:22,260
the owners

9232
02:12:22,260 --> 02:12:24,740
these are

9233
02:12:24,740 --> 02:12:26,800
these are born's ancestors

9234
02:12:26,800 --> 02:12:27,760
that's born there

9235
02:12:27,760 --> 02:12:28,240
my friend

9236
02:12:28,240 --> 02:12:32,580
that's from afghanistan earlier this year

9237
02:12:32,580 --> 02:12:34,080
he's a

9238
02:12:34,080 --> 02:12:35,380
sort of a reporter type

9239
02:12:35,380 --> 02:12:36,680
he's a war reporter

9240
02:12:36,680 --> 02:12:38,440
i'm sorry who is this

9241
02:12:38,440 --> 02:12:40,160
this is the owner of the house

9242
02:12:40,160 --> 02:12:41,440
my friend born smith

9243
02:12:41,440 --> 02:12:42,280
oh right right right

9244
02:12:42,280 --> 02:12:42,900
um

9245
02:12:42,900 --> 02:12:43,960
i've been to his club

9246
02:12:43,960 --> 02:12:45,400
yeah so he's a war reporter

9247
02:12:45,400 --> 02:12:46,020
and

9248
02:12:46,020 --> 02:12:48,880
although he was in the

9249
02:12:48,880 --> 02:12:50,640
grenadier guards originally

9250
02:12:50,640 --> 02:12:51,520
and then he

9251
02:12:51,520 --> 02:12:52,300
i think he

9252
02:12:52,300 --> 02:12:53,680
understood he got to go

9253
02:12:53,680 --> 02:12:55,220
you could get to go

9254
02:12:55,220 --> 02:12:56,460
you know you went to the other side

9255
02:12:56,460 --> 02:12:57,900
but also you could go to more wars

9256
02:12:57,900 --> 02:12:58,580
as a war reporter

9257
02:12:58,580 --> 02:13:00,520
and different ones

9258
02:13:00,520 --> 02:13:01,900
yeah it's better that way

9259
02:13:01,900 --> 02:13:03,140
and these are all family

9260
02:13:03,140 --> 02:13:04,100
this is his family

9261
02:13:04,100 --> 02:13:05,220
these are all family

9262
02:13:05,220 --> 02:13:06,820
that's father and mother

9263
02:13:06,820 --> 02:13:07,980
and they both live here

9264
02:13:07,980 --> 02:13:08,980
um

9265
02:13:08,980 --> 02:13:09,740
go on the

9266
02:13:09,740 --> 02:13:11,320
house on the edge

9267
02:13:11,320 --> 02:13:12,540
so it's a military family

9268
02:13:12,540 --> 02:13:13,460
from a little way

9269
02:13:13,460 --> 02:13:14,440
the other interesting guy

9270
02:13:14,440 --> 02:13:15,560
is that guy there

9271
02:13:15,560 --> 02:13:16,460
tiger smith

9272
02:13:16,460 --> 02:13:18,020
the sort of

9273
02:13:18,020 --> 02:13:18,960
rackish looking mum

9274
02:13:18,960 --> 02:13:19,720
with the collar up

9275
02:13:19,720 --> 02:13:22,220
who's famous for killing

9276
02:13:22,220 --> 02:13:23,160
99 tigers

9277
02:13:23,160 --> 02:13:24,220
back when that sort of thing

9278
02:13:24,220 --> 02:13:24,480
was

9279
02:13:24,480 --> 02:13:26,240
approved of

9280
02:13:26,240 --> 02:13:27,100
so he was a

9281
02:13:27,100 --> 02:13:28,000
saving indians

9282
02:13:28,000 --> 02:13:29,120
he was a raja figure

9283
02:13:29,120 --> 02:13:29,680
of some kind

9284
02:13:29,680 --> 02:13:29,920
yeah

9285
02:13:29,920 --> 02:13:31,060
and

9286
02:13:31,060 --> 02:13:32,080
uh

9287
02:13:32,080 --> 02:13:32,520
but

9288
02:13:32,520 --> 02:13:34,280
so here's the

9289
02:13:34,280 --> 02:13:35,200
the comedy part

9290
02:13:35,200 --> 02:13:36,220
so this medal

9291
02:13:36,220 --> 02:13:37,300
he was the

9292
02:13:37,300 --> 02:13:38,380
born's father

9293
02:13:38,380 --> 02:13:39,380
was the queen's messenger

9294
02:13:39,380 --> 02:13:40,800
wow

9295
02:13:40,800 --> 02:13:41,940
so that means he would go

9296
02:13:41,940 --> 02:13:42,680
deliver

9297
02:13:42,680 --> 02:13:43,120
on

9298
02:13:43,120 --> 02:13:44,460
on airplanes

9299
02:13:44,460 --> 02:13:45,380
and deliver messages

9300
02:13:45,380 --> 02:13:45,700
now

9301
02:13:45,700 --> 02:13:46,140
see

9302
02:13:46,140 --> 02:13:46,900
see this

9303
02:13:46,900 --> 02:13:48,880
bag in his hand there

9304
02:13:48,880 --> 02:13:50,100
so you know

9305
02:13:50,100 --> 02:13:50,980
what's in this bag

9306
02:13:50,980 --> 02:13:52,040
state secrets

9307
02:13:52,040 --> 02:13:53,160
diplomatic cables

9308
02:13:53,160 --> 02:13:58,320
that's great

9309
02:13:58,320 --> 02:13:58,860
so he would

9310
02:13:58,860 --> 02:13:59,400
he would go

9311
02:13:59,400 --> 02:13:59,860
on this

9312
02:13:59,860 --> 02:14:00,520
that's great

9313
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:01,840
on the concord

9314
02:14:01,840 --> 02:14:03,580
and have a seat to the left

9315
02:14:03,580 --> 02:14:04,300
and seat to the right

9316
02:14:04,300 --> 02:14:05,700
that's filled with

9317
02:14:05,700 --> 02:14:06,460
cable bags

9318
02:14:06,460 --> 02:14:06,960
and deliver it

9319
02:14:06,960 --> 02:14:07,740
sometimes they'd take

9320
02:14:07,740 --> 02:14:08,540
computers as well

9321
02:14:08,540 --> 02:14:09,660
and you have people

9322
02:14:09,660 --> 02:14:10,500
coming to the bay

9323
02:14:10,500 --> 02:14:11,880
of the airplane

9324
02:14:11,880 --> 02:14:12,880
and guide it in

9325
02:14:12,880 --> 02:14:13,820
making sure it's not stolen

9326
02:14:13,820 --> 02:14:14,940
and other guys

9327
02:14:14,940 --> 02:14:15,760
waiting at the other end

9328
02:14:15,760 --> 02:14:16,560
to take it

9329
02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:18,160
and what does he say about it

9330
02:14:18,160 --> 02:14:19,480
well he

9331
02:14:19,480 --> 02:14:20,280
he's sort of

9332
02:14:20,280 --> 02:14:21,940
horrified on the one hand

9333
02:14:21,940 --> 02:14:23,160
and deeply pleased on the other

9334
02:14:23,160 --> 02:14:24,200
because if they

9335
02:14:24,200 --> 02:14:25,700
if they just used him

9336
02:14:25,700 --> 02:14:27,240
none of this would have happened

9337
02:14:27,240 --> 02:14:31,120
and before

9338
02:14:31,120 --> 02:14:32,060
before you ask him

9339
02:14:32,060 --> 02:14:32,480
and he's saying

9340
02:14:32,480 --> 02:14:33,340
he's actually

9341
02:14:33,340 --> 02:14:34,040
you've been here for

9342
02:14:34,040 --> 02:14:35,000
about six months

9343
02:14:35,000 --> 02:14:36,000
eight months

9344
02:14:36,000 --> 02:14:36,780
eight months yeah

9345
02:14:36,780 --> 02:14:37,800
so this is your home

9346
02:14:37,800 --> 02:14:41,420
what's a lovely place

9347
02:14:41,420 --> 02:14:43,740
I got these this morning

9348
02:14:43,740 --> 02:14:44,380
from um

9349
02:14:44,380 --> 02:14:45,960
because I have to go

9350
02:14:45,960 --> 02:14:46,700
to the police station

9351
02:14:46,700 --> 02:14:47,100
every day

9352
02:14:47,100 --> 02:14:47,980
unfortunately I

9353
02:14:47,980 --> 02:14:51,000
get crazed fans

9354
02:14:51,000 --> 02:14:51,840
turning up there

9355
02:14:51,840 --> 02:14:52,760
oh really

9356
02:14:52,760 --> 02:14:54,640
and they hand you things

9357
02:14:54,640 --> 02:14:56,500
this was a french girl

9358
02:14:56,500 --> 02:14:57,600
who drove up from france

9359
02:14:57,600 --> 02:14:58,600
really

9360
02:14:58,600 --> 02:14:59,660
how far is the

9361
02:14:59,660 --> 02:15:00,460
I paid gold

9362
02:15:00,460 --> 02:15:01,400
drive from france

9363
02:15:01,400 --> 02:15:02,840
catalonia

9364
02:15:02,840 --> 02:15:04,160
norway

9365
02:15:04,160 --> 02:15:05,180
didn't drive from norway

9366
02:15:05,180 --> 02:15:06,000
flew from norway

9367
02:15:06,000 --> 02:15:06,860
um

9368
02:15:06,860 --> 02:15:07,420
amsterdam

9369
02:15:07,420 --> 02:15:09,220
I heard a guy

9370
02:15:09,220 --> 02:15:09,840
from the u.s

9371
02:15:09,840 --> 02:15:10,560
sold his boat

9372
02:15:10,560 --> 02:15:11,400
and came over here

9373
02:15:11,400 --> 02:15:12,500
captain morgan

9374
02:15:12,500 --> 02:15:13,160
how far is the

9375
02:15:13,160 --> 02:15:14,320
is this police station

9376
02:15:14,320 --> 02:15:15,340
about two minutes

9377
02:15:15,340 --> 02:15:16,180
about 15 minutes

9378
02:15:16,180 --> 02:15:16,960
20 minutes

9379
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:19,940
it's pretty funny

9380
02:15:19,940 --> 02:15:20,840
the woman from

9381
02:15:20,840 --> 02:15:21,720
catalonia was the

9382
02:15:21,720 --> 02:15:22,920
was the most amusing

9383
02:15:22,920 --> 02:15:24,000
um

9384
02:15:24,000 --> 02:15:26,160
so she turned up

9385
02:15:26,160 --> 02:15:26,720
at the front line

9386
02:15:26,720 --> 02:15:27,000
club

9387
02:15:27,000 --> 02:15:28,220
and

9388
02:15:28,220 --> 02:15:29,300
um

9389
02:15:29,300 --> 02:15:30,740
tried to convince

9390
02:15:30,740 --> 02:15:31,820
them that she was

9391
02:15:31,820 --> 02:15:33,220
wikileaks star

9392
02:15:33,220 --> 02:15:34,240
spanish programmer

9393
02:15:34,240 --> 02:15:36,580
not knowing anything

9394
02:15:36,580 --> 02:15:37,340
about programming

9395
02:15:37,340 --> 02:15:37,700
you know

9396
02:15:37,700 --> 02:15:38,380
it's like she just

9397
02:15:38,380 --> 02:15:39,840
she just gave some

9398
02:15:39,840 --> 02:15:40,840
techno babble

9399
02:15:40,840 --> 02:15:41,660
and like

9400
02:15:41,660 --> 02:15:42,880
they assumed it was

9401
02:15:42,880 --> 02:15:43,160
true

9402
02:15:43,160 --> 02:15:44,720
and then after a while

9403
02:15:44,720 --> 02:15:45,220
they're like

9404
02:15:45,220 --> 02:15:46,500
yeah

9405
02:15:46,500 --> 02:15:46,760
well

9406
02:15:46,760 --> 02:15:47,840
you can't really see

9407
02:15:47,840 --> 02:15:48,200
julian

9408
02:15:48,200 --> 02:15:48,400
you know

9409
02:15:48,400 --> 02:15:49,260
he's in seclusion

9410
02:15:49,260 --> 02:15:49,540
but

9411
02:15:49,540 --> 02:15:50,460
okay

9412
02:15:50,460 --> 02:15:50,900
so

9413
02:15:50,900 --> 02:15:52,500
I put her up for free

9414
02:15:52,500 --> 02:15:53,180
for one night

9415
02:15:53,180 --> 02:15:54,160
and

9416
02:15:54,160 --> 02:15:55,800
she had this habit

9417
02:15:55,800 --> 02:15:56,280
of sort of listening

9418
02:15:56,280 --> 02:15:56,820
in on a bit of

9419
02:15:56,820 --> 02:15:57,340
conversation

9420
02:15:57,340 --> 02:15:57,760
and then

9421
02:15:57,760 --> 02:15:58,840
sort of reincorporating

9422
02:15:58,840 --> 02:15:59,580
it into a story

9423
02:15:59,580 --> 02:16:00,660
and

9424
02:16:00,660 --> 02:16:02,000
oh I know this person

9425
02:16:02,000 --> 02:16:02,740
oh look there's

9426
02:16:02,740 --> 02:16:03,240
so and so

9427
02:16:03,240 --> 02:16:04,480
um

9428
02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:05,480
but within

9429
02:16:05,480 --> 02:16:06,360
within two days

9430
02:16:06,360 --> 02:16:06,640
they said

9431
02:16:06,640 --> 02:16:07,320
it'll come undone

9432
02:16:07,320 --> 02:16:07,660
and they

9433
02:16:07,660 --> 02:16:08,400
she'd been

9434
02:16:08,400 --> 02:16:09,100
sent along

9435
02:16:09,100 --> 02:16:10,560
and then

9436
02:16:10,560 --> 02:16:11,860
two weeks later

9437
02:16:11,860 --> 02:16:12,640
um

9438
02:16:12,640 --> 02:16:13,700
there's

9439
02:16:13,700 --> 02:16:14,880
a phone call

9440
02:16:14,880 --> 02:16:15,520
um

9441
02:16:15,520 --> 02:16:16,040
saying

9442
02:16:16,040 --> 02:16:16,420
oh

9443
02:16:16,420 --> 02:16:19,080
so two weeks later

9444
02:16:19,080 --> 02:16:19,600
I'm here

9445
02:16:19,600 --> 02:16:20,600
and

9446
02:16:20,600 --> 02:16:21,440
um

9447
02:16:21,440 --> 02:16:22,300
the police come

9448
02:16:22,300 --> 02:16:22,820
to the door

9449
02:16:22,820 --> 02:16:24,320
and they're saying

9450
02:16:24,320 --> 02:16:25,820
do you know

9451
02:16:25,820 --> 02:16:26,620
Ruth

9452
02:16:26,620 --> 02:16:28,740
Ruth

9453
02:16:28,740 --> 02:16:29,260
Ruth who

9454
02:16:29,260 --> 02:16:30,080
your fiancé

9455
02:16:30,080 --> 02:16:32,300
no

9456
02:16:32,300 --> 02:16:32,840
no

9457
02:16:32,840 --> 02:16:34,400
well she stayed

9458
02:16:34,400 --> 02:16:34,720
at the

9459
02:16:34,720 --> 02:16:35,280
at this

9460
02:16:35,280 --> 02:16:36,520
property all night

9461
02:16:36,520 --> 02:16:37,920
and she says

9462
02:16:37,920 --> 02:16:38,260
that you were

9463
02:16:38,260 --> 02:16:38,680
going to pay

9464
02:16:38,680 --> 02:16:39,360
the taxi bill

9465
02:16:39,360 --> 02:16:40,600
and I'm like

9466
02:16:40,600 --> 02:16:41,940
what taxi bill

9467
02:16:41,940 --> 02:16:43,120
so it turns out

9468
02:16:43,120 --> 02:16:43,740
that she

9469
02:16:43,740 --> 02:16:44,500
had come from

9470
02:16:44,500 --> 02:16:45,000
Catalonia

9471
02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:45,900
to London

9472
02:16:45,900 --> 02:16:47,020
got a black cab

9473
02:16:47,020 --> 02:16:47,640
from London

9474
02:16:47,640 --> 02:16:48,940
to the pier

9475
02:16:48,940 --> 02:16:50,640
500 pounds

9476
02:16:50,640 --> 02:16:52,980
she had 50 pounds

9477
02:16:52,980 --> 02:16:54,900
convinced the taxi driver

9478
02:16:54,900 --> 02:16:55,480
that her

9479
02:16:55,480 --> 02:16:57,040
rich famous

9480
02:16:57,040 --> 02:16:57,520
fiancé

9481
02:16:57,520 --> 02:16:58,360
would pay for it

9482
02:16:58,360 --> 02:16:58,980
they were

9483
02:16:58,980 --> 02:16:59,400
just in a bit

9484
02:16:59,400 --> 02:16:59,920
of a dispute

9485
02:16:59,920 --> 02:17:00,340
at the moment

9486
02:17:00,340 --> 02:17:00,760
but it was

9487
02:17:00,760 --> 02:17:01,080
sorted out

9488
02:17:01,080 --> 02:17:01,480
in the morning

9489
02:17:01,480 --> 02:17:02,740
then she had

9490
02:17:02,740 --> 02:17:03,320
gone to the edge

9491
02:17:03,320 --> 02:17:03,780
of the property

9492
02:17:03,780 --> 02:17:04,460
and convinced

9493
02:17:04,460 --> 02:17:05,260
them that she

9494
02:17:05,260 --> 02:17:06,180
was my fiancé

9495
02:17:06,180 --> 02:17:07,600
and the taxi driver

9496
02:17:07,600 --> 02:17:08,080
wouldn't go

9497
02:17:08,080 --> 02:17:08,580
because he wanted

9498
02:17:08,580 --> 02:17:09,040
his money

9499
02:17:09,040 --> 02:17:10,680
the people

9500
02:17:10,680 --> 02:17:10,980
at the edge

9501
02:17:10,980 --> 02:17:11,360
of the property

9502
02:17:11,360 --> 02:17:12,020
put them both

9503
02:17:12,020 --> 02:17:12,760
up for the night

9504
02:17:12,760 --> 02:17:14,600
at what point

9505
02:17:14,600 --> 02:17:15,080
do you just

9506
02:17:15,080 --> 02:17:15,560
pay her

9507
02:17:15,560 --> 02:17:15,900
for the

9508
02:17:15,900 --> 02:17:16,280
creative

9509
02:17:16,280 --> 02:17:16,700
entertainment

9510
02:17:16,700 --> 02:17:18,020
it's the

9511
02:17:18,020 --> 02:17:18,600
entertainment

9512
02:17:18,600 --> 02:17:19,940
it's so creative

9513
02:17:19,940 --> 02:17:20,540
it's almost

9514
02:17:20,540 --> 02:17:21,120
impressive

9515
02:17:21,120 --> 02:17:23,380
then she was

9516
02:17:23,380 --> 02:17:24,320
eventually arrested

9517
02:17:24,320 --> 02:17:25,740
for fair evasion

9518
02:17:25,740 --> 02:17:26,920
because we were

9519
02:17:26,920 --> 02:17:27,240
like no one

9520
02:17:27,240 --> 02:17:27,800
going to pay the bill

9521
02:17:27,800 --> 02:17:29,520
bailed to appear

9522
02:17:29,520 --> 02:17:31,240
on February 14

9523
02:17:31,240 --> 02:17:32,260
Valentine's Day

9524
02:17:32,260 --> 02:17:36,440
with bail conditions

9525
02:17:36,440 --> 02:17:36,920
that she couldn't

9526
02:17:36,920 --> 02:17:37,520
appear in Norfolk

9527
02:17:37,520 --> 02:17:38,280
so she flew back

9528
02:17:38,280 --> 02:17:38,920
to Catalonia

9529
02:17:38,920 --> 02:17:40,020
but then we see

9530
02:17:40,020 --> 02:17:40,440
that on her

9531
02:17:40,440 --> 02:17:41,040
Facebook page

9532
02:17:41,040 --> 02:17:41,620
she's still going

9533
02:17:41,620 --> 02:17:42,800
on about how

9534
02:17:42,800 --> 02:17:44,660
how in love

9535
02:17:44,660 --> 02:17:45,220
she is

9536
02:17:45,220 --> 02:17:46,720
and these terrible

9537
02:17:46,720 --> 02:17:47,540
women that lived

9538
02:17:47,540 --> 02:17:47,940
here

9539
02:17:47,940 --> 02:17:49,560
prevented

9540
02:17:49,560 --> 02:17:50,340
the harpies

9541
02:17:50,340 --> 02:17:51,540
prevented her

9542
02:17:51,540 --> 02:17:51,940
from

9543
02:17:51,940 --> 02:17:53,940
coming in contact

9544
02:17:53,940 --> 02:17:54,780
with her

9545
02:17:54,780 --> 02:17:55,960
oh my goodness

9546
02:17:55,960 --> 02:17:57,080
proving that

9547
02:17:57,080 --> 02:17:57,760
everything on the

9548
02:17:57,760 --> 02:17:58,300
internet is

9549
02:17:58,300 --> 02:17:59,560
absolutely true

9550
02:17:59,560 --> 02:18:01,100
every single

9551
02:18:01,100 --> 02:18:01,460
fact

9552
02:18:01,460 --> 02:18:01,900
especially

9553
02:18:01,900 --> 02:18:02,520
Facebook

9554
02:18:02,520 --> 02:18:03,260
especially

9555
02:18:03,260 --> 02:18:04,460
everything

9556
02:18:04,460 --> 02:18:05,120
is true

9557
02:18:05,120 --> 02:18:13,680
no I'm good

9558
02:18:13,680 --> 02:18:14,720
I'm good

9559
02:18:14,720 --> 02:18:15,020
actually

9560
02:18:15,020 --> 02:18:16,720
I want to be

9561
02:18:16,720 --> 02:18:17,400
sensitive to your

9562
02:18:17,400 --> 02:18:18,280
energy and time

9563
02:18:18,280 --> 02:18:19,220
I think it would

9564
02:18:19,220 --> 02:18:19,920
be interesting to

9565
02:18:19,920 --> 02:18:20,940
talk a little bit

9566
02:18:20,940 --> 02:18:21,380
about

9567
02:18:21,380 --> 02:18:22,780
where you should

9568
02:18:22,780 --> 02:18:23,340
go for a walk

9569
02:18:23,340 --> 02:18:26,040
it would be

9570
02:18:26,040 --> 02:18:26,260
interesting

9571
02:18:26,260 --> 02:18:28,820
to talk about

9572
02:18:28,820 --> 02:18:29,780
the various

9573
02:18:29,780 --> 02:18:30,580
sort of what if

9574
02:18:30,580 --> 02:18:31,240
scenarios

9575
02:18:31,240 --> 02:18:32,340
right

9576
02:18:32,340 --> 02:18:32,880
because that's

9577
02:18:32,880 --> 02:18:33,560
what we're very

9578
02:18:33,560 --> 02:18:33,920
interested in

9579
02:18:33,920 --> 02:18:34,300
this is Jared

9580
02:18:34,300 --> 02:18:34,760
and I do this

9581
02:18:34,760 --> 02:18:35,240
all the time

9582
02:18:35,240 --> 02:18:36,160
you know

9583
02:18:36,160 --> 02:18:36,760
what are some

9584
02:18:36,760 --> 02:18:37,520
scenarios that

9585
02:18:37,520 --> 02:18:38,180
could play out

9586
02:18:38,180 --> 02:18:39,400
you know

9587
02:18:39,400 --> 02:18:40,120
try to actually

9588
02:18:40,120 --> 02:18:40,960
think about it

9589
02:18:40,960 --> 02:18:41,240
you know

9590
02:18:41,240 --> 02:18:41,620
you have all

9591
02:18:41,620 --> 02:18:42,020
these different

9592
02:18:42,020 --> 02:18:42,520
actors and

9593
02:18:42,520 --> 02:18:42,720
players

9594
02:18:42,720 --> 02:18:43,140
you obviously

9595
02:18:43,140 --> 02:18:43,760
think about it

9596
02:18:43,760 --> 02:18:44,220
you're basically

9597
02:18:44,220 --> 02:18:44,680
a physicist

9598
02:18:44,680 --> 02:18:45,000
right

9599
02:18:45,000 --> 02:18:45,660
you think

9600
02:18:45,660 --> 02:18:45,960
about it

9601
02:18:45,960 --> 02:18:47,000
that way

9602
02:18:47,000 --> 02:18:47,240
right

9603
02:18:47,240 --> 02:18:49,000
we're actually

9604
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:49,560
thinking about

9605
02:18:49,560 --> 02:18:49,820
what if

9606
02:18:49,820 --> 02:18:50,260
scenarios

9607
02:18:50,260 --> 02:18:51,840
I think

9608
02:18:51,840 --> 02:18:52,360
there's actually

9609
02:18:52,360 --> 02:18:52,880
a use

9610
02:18:52,880 --> 02:18:53,840
it can actually

9611
02:18:53,840 --> 02:18:54,420
be useful to

9612
02:18:54,420 --> 02:18:54,960
think what if

9613
02:18:54,960 --> 02:18:55,560
in the past

9614
02:18:55,560 --> 02:18:56,060
while we're

9615
02:18:56,060 --> 02:18:56,580
sitting there

9616
02:18:56,580 --> 02:18:57,560
one of our

9617
02:18:57,560 --> 02:18:57,900
chapters

9618
02:18:57,900 --> 02:18:58,640
looks at

9619
02:18:58,640 --> 02:18:59,780
inter-backing

9620
02:18:59,780 --> 02:19:00,620
in the context

9621
02:19:00,620 --> 02:19:01,320
of a futuristic

9622
02:19:01,320 --> 02:19:01,820
genocide

9623
02:19:01,820 --> 02:19:02,700
but I think

9624
02:19:02,700 --> 02:19:03,140
it's actually

9625
02:19:03,140 --> 02:19:04,220
a more useful

9626
02:19:04,220 --> 02:19:04,880
conversation

9627
02:19:04,880 --> 02:19:05,680
in terms of

9628
02:19:05,680 --> 02:19:06,380
understanding the

9629
02:19:06,380 --> 02:19:06,700
role that

9630
02:19:06,700 --> 02:19:07,400
WikiLeaks could

9631
02:19:07,400 --> 02:19:07,940
play in a

9632
02:19:07,940 --> 02:19:08,540
situation like

9633
02:19:08,540 --> 02:19:08,760
that

9634
02:19:08,760 --> 02:19:09,260
to ask

9635
02:19:09,260 --> 02:19:10,040
you know

9636
02:19:10,040 --> 02:19:11,480
in 1994

9637
02:19:11,480 --> 02:19:12,700
had the

9638
02:19:12,700 --> 02:19:13,080
technological

9639
02:19:13,080 --> 02:19:13,900
state of the

9640
02:19:13,900 --> 02:19:14,640
world today

9641
02:19:14,640 --> 02:19:15,040
been the

9642
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:15,560
technological

9643
02:19:15,560 --> 02:19:21,160
state then

9644
02:19:21,160 --> 02:19:22,220
and WikiLeaks

9645
02:19:22,220 --> 02:19:22,780
was around

9646
02:19:22,780 --> 02:19:23,220
during the

9647
02:19:23,220 --> 02:19:23,560
Rwanda

9648
02:19:23,560 --> 02:19:24,020
genocide

9649
02:19:24,020 --> 02:19:25,500
what might have

9650
02:19:25,500 --> 02:19:25,900
changed

9651
02:19:25,900 --> 02:19:26,540
how might

9652
02:19:26,540 --> 02:19:27,040
things have been

9653
02:19:27,040 --> 02:19:27,380
different

9654
02:19:27,380 --> 02:19:29,440
just wondering

9655
02:19:29,440 --> 02:19:29,620
wondering if

9656
02:19:29,620 --> 02:19:29,900
the weather

9657
02:19:29,900 --> 02:19:30,300
will change

9658
02:19:30,300 --> 02:19:30,480
yeah

9659
02:19:30,480 --> 02:19:31,480
welcome

9660
02:19:31,480 --> 02:19:31,980
British

9661
02:19:31,980 --> 02:19:32,320
weather

9662
02:19:32,320 --> 02:19:35,080
the

9663
02:19:35,080 --> 02:19:35,380
Rwandan

9664
02:19:35,380 --> 02:19:35,680
genocide

9665
02:19:35,680 --> 02:19:36,780
yes I think

9666
02:19:36,780 --> 02:19:37,080
it would have

9667
02:19:37,080 --> 02:19:37,280
been

9668
02:19:37,280 --> 02:19:37,740
I think it

9669
02:19:37,740 --> 02:19:37,920
would have

9670
02:19:37,920 --> 02:19:38,300
been a bit

9671
02:19:38,300 --> 02:19:38,700
different

9672
02:19:38,700 --> 02:19:39,860
if they had

9673
02:19:39,860 --> 02:19:40,160
internet

9674
02:19:40,160 --> 02:19:40,860
and number

9675
02:19:40,860 --> 02:19:41,320
of phones

9676
02:19:41,320 --> 02:19:41,980
in Rwanda

9677
02:19:41,980 --> 02:19:43,040
I think the

9678
02:19:43,040 --> 02:19:44,280
message would have

9679
02:19:44,280 --> 02:19:44,940
come out more

9680
02:19:44,940 --> 02:19:45,960
although maybe not

9681
02:19:45,960 --> 02:19:46,380
that much

9682
02:19:46,380 --> 02:19:47,640
I mean in

9683
02:19:47,640 --> 02:19:48,560
the Congo

9684
02:19:48,560 --> 02:19:50,980
all the bad

9685
02:19:50,980 --> 02:19:51,480
things happening

9686
02:19:51,480 --> 02:19:51,920
in the Congo

9687
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:52,460
aren't really

9688
02:19:52,460 --> 02:19:52,900
getting much

9689
02:19:52,900 --> 02:19:53,480
traction in the

9690
02:19:53,480 --> 02:19:53,760
west

9691
02:19:53,760 --> 02:19:55,600
it's a fantastic

9692
02:19:55,600 --> 02:19:56,020
tree

9693
02:19:56,020 --> 02:19:57,060
it keeps

9694
02:19:57,060 --> 02:19:57,940
totally dry

9695
02:19:57,940 --> 02:19:58,860
that's good

9696
02:19:58,860 --> 02:20:00,580
and I guess

9697
02:20:00,580 --> 02:20:01,480
that's sort of

9698
02:20:01,480 --> 02:20:02,440
there's a larger

9699
02:20:02,440 --> 02:20:03,240
what if question

9700
02:20:03,240 --> 02:20:04,700
here which is

9701
02:20:04,700 --> 02:20:05,060
you know

9702
02:20:05,060 --> 02:20:06,880
it's part what if

9703
02:20:06,880 --> 02:20:07,900
and part why

9704
02:20:07,900 --> 02:20:09,340
like why haven't

9705
02:20:09,340 --> 02:20:09,880
there been

9706
02:20:09,880 --> 02:20:12,400
people in

9707
02:20:12,400 --> 02:20:13,040
places like

9708
02:20:13,040 --> 02:20:13,960
Iran or

9709
02:20:13,960 --> 02:20:14,500
North Korea

9710
02:20:14,500 --> 02:20:15,360
or Congo

9711
02:20:15,360 --> 02:20:16,400
you know

9712
02:20:16,400 --> 02:20:16,860
releasing

9713
02:20:16,860 --> 02:20:18,480
documents

9714
02:20:18,480 --> 02:20:19,740
in the same

9715
02:20:19,740 --> 02:20:20,260
ways as there

9716
02:20:20,260 --> 02:20:20,960
have been say

9717
02:20:20,960 --> 02:20:22,320
in western

9718
02:20:22,320 --> 02:20:23,060
democracies

9719
02:20:23,060 --> 02:20:24,040
well we have

9720
02:20:24,040 --> 02:20:24,400
actually

9721
02:20:24,400 --> 02:20:24,880
we did

9722
02:20:24,880 --> 02:20:25,520
have gotten

9723
02:20:25,520 --> 02:20:27,020
a bit of

9724
02:20:27,020 --> 02:20:27,480
material from

9725
02:20:27,480 --> 02:20:27,760
Iran

9726
02:20:27,760 --> 02:20:30,300
I think

9727
02:20:30,300 --> 02:20:33,880
it's not that

9728
02:20:33,880 --> 02:20:34,460
easy to do

9729
02:20:34,460 --> 02:20:35,060
a WikiLeaks

9730
02:20:35,060 --> 02:20:37,020
in

9731
02:20:37,020 --> 02:20:38,880
combination of

9732
02:20:38,880 --> 02:20:41,460
technicalities

9733
02:20:41,460 --> 02:20:42,120
and reputation

9734
02:20:42,120 --> 02:20:43,080
and funding

9735
02:20:43,080 --> 02:20:43,560
and so on

9736
02:20:43,560 --> 02:20:43,920
it's not that

9737
02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:45,160
easy to do

9738
02:20:45,160 --> 02:20:46,920
and we

9739
02:20:46,920 --> 02:20:47,460
don't

9740
02:20:47,460 --> 02:20:49,920
that's keeping

9741
02:20:49,920 --> 02:20:50,420
reputation

9742
02:20:50,420 --> 02:20:50,640
right

9743
02:20:50,640 --> 02:20:51,440
I just wanted

9744
02:20:51,440 --> 02:20:51,800
to make sure

9745
02:20:51,800 --> 02:20:52,060
that was what

9746
02:20:52,060 --> 02:20:52,320
you're thinking

9747
02:20:52,320 --> 02:20:52,760
let's ask the

9748
02:20:52,760 --> 02:20:53,380
question bluntly

9749
02:20:53,380 --> 02:20:54,080
so why are you

9750
02:20:54,080 --> 02:20:54,540
not getting

9751
02:20:54,540 --> 02:20:55,460
enormous numbers

9752
02:20:55,460 --> 02:20:56,300
of anonymous

9753
02:20:56,300 --> 02:20:57,660
USB drives

9754
02:20:57,660 --> 02:20:59,200
about the bad

9755
02:20:59,200 --> 02:21:00,000
documents in

9756
02:21:00,000 --> 02:21:00,860
African countries

9757
02:21:00,860 --> 02:21:01,480
that are run by

9758
02:21:01,480 --> 02:21:02,020
these evil

9759
02:21:02,020 --> 02:21:02,840
dictator types

9760
02:21:02,840 --> 02:21:04,660
we have

9761
02:21:04,660 --> 02:21:05,420
don't you think

9762
02:21:05,420 --> 02:21:06,360
that everyone

9763
02:21:06,360 --> 02:21:07,300
would be incentivized

9764
02:21:07,300 --> 02:21:07,980
to use you

9765
02:21:07,980 --> 02:21:08,920
shouldn't they

9766
02:21:08,920 --> 02:21:09,680
we have gotten

9767
02:21:09,680 --> 02:21:11,980
some decent

9768
02:21:11,980 --> 02:21:12,660
African stuff

9769
02:21:12,660 --> 02:21:14,300
decent East Timoree

9770
02:21:14,300 --> 02:21:14,560
stuff

9771
02:21:14,560 --> 02:21:15,240
lots of decent

9772
02:21:15,240 --> 02:21:15,920
Latin American

9773
02:21:15,920 --> 02:21:16,320
stuff

9774
02:21:16,320 --> 02:21:19,260
is it because

9775
02:21:19,260 --> 02:21:19,720
these governments

9776
02:21:19,720 --> 02:21:20,180
don't write

9777
02:21:20,180 --> 02:21:20,820
down as much

9778
02:21:20,820 --> 02:21:21,360
of the stuff

9779
02:21:21,360 --> 02:21:22,620
they're not

9780
02:21:22,620 --> 02:21:23,760
as networked

9781
02:21:23,760 --> 02:21:25,400
some of them

9782
02:21:25,400 --> 02:21:26,140
like a Tanzanian

9783
02:21:26,140 --> 02:21:26,620
government

9784
02:21:26,620 --> 02:21:27,380
use

9785
02:21:27,380 --> 02:21:28,220
Kiswahili

9786
02:21:28,220 --> 02:21:28,860
they don't use

9787
02:21:28,860 --> 02:21:29,500
English as their

9788
02:21:29,500 --> 02:21:30,320
governmental language

9789
02:21:30,320 --> 02:21:32,480
a lot of it

9790
02:21:32,480 --> 02:21:33,040
is to do

9791
02:21:33,040 --> 02:21:33,800
just whether

9792
02:21:33,800 --> 02:21:35,700
they perceive

9793
02:21:35,700 --> 02:21:36,960
that WikiLeaks

9794
02:21:36,960 --> 02:21:37,580
is a

9795
02:21:37,580 --> 02:21:39,080
political actor

9796
02:21:39,080 --> 02:21:40,440
within their country

9797
02:21:40,440 --> 02:21:42,600
so for East Timor

9798
02:21:42,600 --> 02:21:44,000
once we started

9799
02:21:44,000 --> 02:21:44,580
doing a little bit

9800
02:21:44,580 --> 02:21:45,260
of East Timor

9801
02:21:45,260 --> 02:21:46,400
we got a lot

9802
02:21:46,400 --> 02:21:47,200
more East Timor

9803
02:21:47,200 --> 02:21:47,540
and then

9804
02:21:47,540 --> 02:21:48,620
the sort of

9805
02:21:48,620 --> 02:21:49,600
flood opened up

9806
02:21:49,600 --> 02:21:50,240
and it just

9807
02:21:50,240 --> 02:21:51,160
became routine

9808
02:21:51,160 --> 02:21:52,980
for them to give us

9809
02:21:52,980 --> 02:21:53,320
material

9810
02:21:53,320 --> 02:21:53,880
but they need

9811
02:21:53,880 --> 02:21:54,780
to perceive

9812
02:21:54,780 --> 02:21:55,560
that we are part

9813
02:21:55,560 --> 02:21:57,520
of the community

9814
02:21:57,520 --> 02:21:58,780
for Russia

9815
02:21:58,780 --> 02:22:00,800
I think our

9816
02:22:00,800 --> 02:22:03,220
the small amount

9817
02:22:03,220 --> 02:22:03,640
of material

9818
02:22:03,640 --> 02:22:04,280
that we've released

9819
02:22:04,280 --> 02:22:05,400
about Russia

9820
02:22:05,400 --> 02:22:06,160
although now

9821
02:22:06,160 --> 02:22:06,640
we have this

9822
02:22:06,640 --> 02:22:07,260
RU leaks

9823
02:22:07,260 --> 02:22:07,720
that has been

9824
02:22:07,720 --> 02:22:08,500
doing pretty well

9825
02:22:08,500 --> 02:22:09,940
historically

9826
02:22:09,940 --> 02:22:10,560
the small amount

9827
02:22:10,560 --> 02:22:10,920
of material

9828
02:22:10,920 --> 02:22:11,620
that we've been

9829
02:22:11,620 --> 02:22:12,360
releasing for Russia

9830
02:22:12,360 --> 02:22:13,160
is actually

9831
02:22:13,160 --> 02:22:13,980
a positive sign

9832
02:22:13,980 --> 02:22:14,980
in that

9833
02:22:14,980 --> 02:22:16,360
the Russian

9834
02:22:16,360 --> 02:22:17,860
internet sphere

9835
02:22:17,860 --> 02:22:18,320
is actually

9836
02:22:18,320 --> 02:22:19,000
very vibrant

9837
02:22:19,000 --> 02:22:20,560
and so

9838
02:22:20,560 --> 02:22:24,160
it feels

9839
02:22:24,160 --> 02:22:24,540
that

9840
02:22:24,540 --> 02:22:26,300
you know

9841
02:22:26,300 --> 02:22:26,920
it doesn't look

9842
02:22:26,920 --> 02:22:27,920
outside so much

9843
02:22:27,920 --> 02:22:28,520
why would it look

9844
02:22:28,520 --> 02:22:29,000
at an English

9845
02:22:29,000 --> 02:22:29,840
language website

9846
02:22:29,840 --> 02:22:30,660
like WikiLeaks

9847
02:22:30,660 --> 02:22:31,480
I mean

9848
02:22:31,480 --> 02:22:32,760
it has

9849
02:22:32,760 --> 02:22:35,720
it's sort of

9850
02:22:35,720 --> 02:22:36,580
non-profit

9851
02:22:36,580 --> 02:22:37,500
activist

9852
02:22:37,500 --> 02:22:38,080
journalists

9853
02:22:38,080 --> 02:22:39,080
and opposition

9854
02:22:39,080 --> 02:22:39,560
and so on

9855
02:22:39,560 --> 02:22:40,240
all in that

9856
02:22:40,240 --> 02:22:40,880
internet sphere

9857
02:22:40,880 --> 02:22:43,100
which is

9858
02:22:43,100 --> 02:22:44,800
relatively free

9859
02:22:44,800 --> 02:22:46,120
compared to

9860
02:22:46,120 --> 02:22:46,640
Russian TV

9861
02:22:46,640 --> 02:22:47,400
so they don't

9862
02:22:47,400 --> 02:22:47,960
see that they

9863
02:22:47,960 --> 02:22:48,920
really need

9864
02:22:48,920 --> 02:22:49,640
this other avenue

9865
02:22:49,640 --> 02:22:51,960
it just seems like

9866
02:22:51,960 --> 02:22:52,480
there was

9867
02:22:52,480 --> 02:22:53,460
there was a site

9868
02:22:53,460 --> 02:22:55,280
there was a

9869
02:22:55,280 --> 02:22:55,600
publication

9870
02:22:55,600 --> 02:22:56,620
of a whole bunch

9871
02:22:56,620 --> 02:22:58,400
of FSB documents

9872
02:22:58,400 --> 02:23:01,920
on an American

9873
02:23:01,920 --> 02:23:02,420
server

9874
02:23:02,420 --> 02:23:05,460
which was then

9875
02:23:05,460 --> 02:23:06,060
immediately hacked

9876
02:23:06,060 --> 02:23:06,340
and they were

9877
02:23:06,340 --> 02:23:06,860
taken down

9878
02:23:06,860 --> 02:23:08,580
and never seen

9879
02:23:08,580 --> 02:23:09,180
again

9880
02:23:09,180 --> 02:23:12,820
it's not so easy

9881
02:23:12,820 --> 02:23:13,320
to do

9882
02:23:13,320 --> 02:23:14,280
it's not so easy

9883
02:23:14,280 --> 02:23:15,120
to publish against

9884
02:23:15,120 --> 02:23:16,180
powerful state actors

9885
02:23:16,180 --> 02:23:16,780
actually

9886
02:23:16,780 --> 02:23:19,580
you've talked a lot

9887
02:23:19,580 --> 02:23:20,840
about the importance

9888
02:23:20,840 --> 02:23:21,420
of the name

9889
02:23:21,420 --> 02:23:22,300
that's been

9890
02:23:22,300 --> 02:23:22,600
sort of

9891
02:23:22,600 --> 02:23:23,740
I think

9892
02:23:23,740 --> 02:23:24,120
an important

9893
02:23:24,120 --> 02:23:24,460
theme

9894
02:23:24,460 --> 02:23:25,420
in this conversation

9895
02:23:25,420 --> 02:23:26,080
and so

9896
02:23:26,080 --> 02:23:27,260
it makes me wonder

9897
02:23:27,260 --> 02:23:28,160
how much

9898
02:23:28,160 --> 02:23:28,540
the

9899
02:23:28,540 --> 02:23:29,260
kind of

9900
02:23:29,260 --> 02:23:30,380
there's the debut

9901
02:23:30,380 --> 02:23:30,880
in which

9902
02:23:30,880 --> 02:23:32,000
the site goes live

9903
02:23:32,000 --> 02:23:32,680
then there's really

9904
02:23:32,680 --> 02:23:33,700
the major debut

9905
02:23:33,700 --> 02:23:34,740
where it becomes

9906
02:23:34,740 --> 02:23:35,740
a household

9907
02:23:35,740 --> 02:23:36,900
term

9908
02:23:36,900 --> 02:23:37,800
or a household name

9909
02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:39,100
and one of the things

9910
02:23:39,100 --> 02:23:40,060
that we're playing

9911
02:23:40,060 --> 02:23:40,800
around with in the book

9912
02:23:40,800 --> 02:23:41,080
is how

9913
02:23:41,080 --> 02:23:41,820
we haven't properly

9914
02:23:41,820 --> 02:23:42,460
used that yet

9915
02:23:42,460 --> 02:23:42,700
though

9916
02:23:42,700 --> 02:23:46,280
we haven't been able

9917
02:23:46,280 --> 02:23:47,140
to grow as fast

9918
02:23:47,140 --> 02:23:47,620
as the name

9919
02:23:47,620 --> 02:23:48,520
has been able to grow

9920
02:23:48,520 --> 02:23:49,280
but even so

9921
02:23:49,280 --> 02:23:50,280
people know

9922
02:23:50,280 --> 02:23:51,140
what WikiLeaks

9923
02:23:51,140 --> 02:23:51,800
is

9924
02:23:51,800 --> 02:23:53,060
and I wonder

9925
02:23:53,060 --> 02:23:54,480
had the first

9926
02:23:54,480 --> 02:23:55,420
batch of

9927
02:23:55,420 --> 02:23:56,620
documents

9928
02:23:56,620 --> 02:23:58,120
that you received

9929
02:23:58,120 --> 02:23:58,660
been from

9930
02:23:58,660 --> 02:23:59,600
say in Iran

9931
02:23:59,600 --> 02:24:00,560
or from a North Korea

9932
02:24:00,560 --> 02:24:01,640
and released

9933
02:24:01,640 --> 02:24:02,980
if the world

9934
02:24:02,980 --> 02:24:03,400
would have looked

9935
02:24:03,400 --> 02:24:04,040
at it as a

9936
02:24:04,040 --> 02:24:04,620
whistleblowing

9937
02:24:04,620 --> 02:24:06,060
platform

9938
02:24:06,060 --> 02:24:06,340
it did

9939
02:24:06,340 --> 02:24:07,340
the world did

9940
02:24:07,340 --> 02:24:08,800
up until we

9941
02:24:08,800 --> 02:24:09,640
started producing

9942
02:24:09,640 --> 02:24:10,780
a high volume

9943
02:24:10,780 --> 02:24:11,720
of US military stuff

9944
02:24:11,720 --> 02:24:12,560
we were producing

9945
02:24:12,560 --> 02:24:14,120
thousands of pages

9946
02:24:14,120 --> 02:24:15,080
of US military stuff

9947
02:24:15,080 --> 02:24:16,240
back in 2007

9948
02:24:16,240 --> 02:24:18,060
and nobody noticed

9949
02:24:18,060 --> 02:24:18,820
that's interesting

9950
02:24:18,820 --> 02:24:19,640
because of collateral

9951
02:24:19,640 --> 02:24:20,380
damage video

9952
02:24:20,380 --> 02:24:21,260
well nobody

9953
02:24:21,260 --> 02:24:23,020
people noticed

9954
02:24:23,020 --> 02:24:24,080
the Guantanamo stuff

9955
02:24:24,080 --> 02:24:25,080
but not to the

9956
02:24:25,080 --> 02:24:25,760
household name

9957
02:24:25,760 --> 02:24:27,120
we were a journalistic

9958
02:24:27,120 --> 02:24:27,960
name pretty quickly

9959
02:24:27,960 --> 02:24:28,480
actually

9960
02:24:28,480 --> 02:24:31,180
and in the

9961
02:24:31,180 --> 02:24:32,000
techno part

9962
02:24:32,000 --> 02:24:32,540
of the human rights

9963
02:24:32,540 --> 02:24:32,920
community

9964
02:24:32,920 --> 02:24:33,520
we were a name

9965
02:24:33,520 --> 02:24:34,040
pretty quickly

9966
02:24:34,040 --> 02:24:37,240
and we were

9967
02:24:37,240 --> 02:24:39,360
in the

9968
02:24:39,360 --> 02:24:40,860
internet educated

9969
02:24:40,860 --> 02:24:41,940
German

9970
02:24:41,940 --> 02:24:43,200
and English

9971
02:24:43,200 --> 02:24:44,420
speaking publics

9972
02:24:44,420 --> 02:24:46,040
especially towards

9973
02:24:46,040 --> 02:24:47,180
the crypto security

9974
02:24:47,180 --> 02:24:47,440
end

9975
02:24:47,440 --> 02:24:47,840
we were named

9976
02:24:47,840 --> 02:24:48,300
pretty quickly

9977
02:24:48,300 --> 02:24:49,520
so for example

9978
02:24:49,520 --> 02:24:50,360
when we did a

9979
02:24:50,360 --> 02:24:51,220
fundraising effort

9980
02:24:51,220 --> 02:24:53,100
at the beginning

9981
02:24:53,100 --> 02:24:54,160
of 2010

9982
02:24:54,160 --> 02:24:55,320
to

9983
02:24:55,320 --> 02:24:57,860
May 2010

9984
02:24:57,860 --> 02:24:59,760
before collateral

9985
02:24:59,760 --> 02:25:00,040
murder

9986
02:25:00,040 --> 02:25:01,760
we raised

9987
02:25:01,760 --> 02:25:02,500
a million bucks

9988
02:25:02,500 --> 02:25:03,780
so

9989
02:25:03,780 --> 02:25:06,120
for a

9990
02:25:06,120 --> 02:25:08,880
new sort of

9991
02:25:08,880 --> 02:25:10,380
new in terms of

9992
02:25:10,380 --> 02:25:10,820
concept

9993
02:25:10,820 --> 02:25:12,320
non-profit

9994
02:25:12,320 --> 02:25:13,020
journalism

9995
02:25:13,020 --> 02:25:13,720
group

9996
02:25:13,720 --> 02:25:14,480
to raise a million

9997
02:25:14,480 --> 02:25:14,920
bucks

9998
02:25:14,920 --> 02:25:16,580
in $20 donations

9999
02:25:16,580 --> 02:25:18,200
that's

10000
02:25:18,200 --> 02:25:19,360
almost completely

10001
02:25:19,360 --> 02:25:20,080
unheard of

10002
02:25:20,080 --> 02:25:21,320
and we were doing

10003
02:25:21,320 --> 02:25:22,460
that before collateral

10004
02:25:22,460 --> 02:25:22,780
murder

10005
02:25:22,780 --> 02:25:25,240
so collateral

10006
02:25:25,240 --> 02:25:25,600
murder

10007
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:26,860
made us into

10008
02:25:26,860 --> 02:25:27,460
a worldwide

10009
02:25:27,460 --> 02:25:28,020
household

10010
02:25:28,020 --> 02:25:29,100
no not even

10011
02:25:29,100 --> 02:25:29,560
collateral murder

10012
02:25:29,560 --> 02:25:30,300
did actually

10013
02:25:30,300 --> 02:25:31,760
made us in

10014
02:25:31,760 --> 02:25:32,680
made us into

10015
02:25:32,680 --> 02:25:33,280
a US

10016
02:25:33,280 --> 02:25:35,040
household name

10017
02:25:35,040 --> 02:25:37,860
all these things

10018
02:25:37,860 --> 02:25:38,640
started to stack up

10019
02:25:38,640 --> 02:25:39,540
by the end of the year

10020
02:25:39,540 --> 02:25:40,260
and really was

10021
02:25:40,260 --> 02:25:41,440
it was the pentagon's

10022
02:25:41,440 --> 02:25:42,680
attack against us

10023
02:25:42,680 --> 02:25:43,860
and the swedish

10024
02:25:43,860 --> 02:25:44,560
sex case

10025
02:25:44,560 --> 02:25:46,080
funnily enough

10026
02:25:46,080 --> 02:25:48,760
that then made us

10027
02:25:48,760 --> 02:25:49,420
into a worldwide

10028
02:25:49,420 --> 02:25:50,280
household name

10029
02:25:50,280 --> 02:25:51,900
with 84%

10030
02:25:51,900 --> 02:25:52,660
name recognition

10031
02:25:52,660 --> 02:25:53,220
worldwide

10032
02:25:53,220 --> 02:25:53,800
wow

10033
02:25:53,800 --> 02:25:54,920
that's interesting

10034
02:25:54,920 --> 02:25:55,980
do you

10035
02:25:55,980 --> 02:25:56,420
so

10036
02:25:56,420 --> 02:25:57,900
on the assumption

10037
02:25:57,900 --> 02:25:58,640
that the current

10038
02:25:58,640 --> 02:25:59,960
legal stuff

10039
02:25:59,960 --> 02:26:00,640
is all resolved

10040
02:26:00,640 --> 02:26:02,600
the next

10041
02:26:02,600 --> 02:26:03,760
few years

10042
02:26:03,760 --> 02:26:04,800
are

10043
02:26:04,800 --> 02:26:06,820
what happens

10044
02:26:06,820 --> 02:26:07,380
with WikiLeaks

10045
02:26:07,380 --> 02:26:07,980
it becomes

10046
02:26:07,980 --> 02:26:08,560
I mean again

10047
02:26:08,560 --> 02:26:09,440
we want to talk

10048
02:26:09,440 --> 02:26:09,800
about

10049
02:26:09,800 --> 02:26:11,200
for us

10050
02:26:11,200 --> 02:26:11,820
T equals zero

10051
02:26:11,820 --> 02:26:12,680
is a year from now

10052
02:26:12,680 --> 02:26:12,980
right

10053
02:26:12,980 --> 02:26:13,240
so

10054
02:26:13,240 --> 02:26:14,400
thinking a year

10055
02:26:14,400 --> 02:26:14,820
from now

10056
02:26:14,820 --> 02:26:15,500
like the next year

10057
02:26:15,500 --> 02:26:16,100
the next year

10058
02:26:16,100 --> 02:26:17,440
does WikiLeaks

10059
02:26:17,440 --> 02:26:18,140
just become

10060
02:26:18,140 --> 02:26:19,000
bigger

10061
02:26:19,000 --> 02:26:20,020
more donors

10062
02:26:20,020 --> 02:26:21,100
more technology

10063
02:26:21,100 --> 02:26:22,380
you can change

10064
02:26:22,380 --> 02:26:23,100
it in some way

10065
02:26:23,100 --> 02:26:25,140
there's lots of

10066
02:26:25,140 --> 02:26:25,460
changes

10067
02:26:25,460 --> 02:26:25,800
because I think

10068
02:26:25,800 --> 02:26:26,680
this idea

10069
02:26:26,680 --> 02:26:27,080
I have

10070
02:26:27,080 --> 02:26:27,620
about how

10071
02:26:27,620 --> 02:26:29,560
to structure

10072
02:26:29,560 --> 02:26:30,760
intellectual information

10073
02:26:30,760 --> 02:26:31,360
is important

10074
02:26:31,360 --> 02:26:32,560
and we will overlay

10075
02:26:32,560 --> 02:26:33,020
that

10076
02:26:33,020 --> 02:26:35,020
so that's

10077
02:26:35,020 --> 02:26:35,940
actually part of

10078
02:26:35,940 --> 02:26:36,280
your plan

10079
02:26:36,280 --> 02:26:36,900
that you're talking

10080
02:26:36,900 --> 02:26:37,200
about

10081
02:26:37,200 --> 02:26:40,360
when you do

10082
02:26:40,360 --> 02:26:40,980
have a presence

10083
02:26:40,980 --> 02:26:41,380
you have

10084
02:26:41,380 --> 02:26:42,920
such public

10085
02:26:42,920 --> 02:26:43,400
recognition

10086
02:26:43,400 --> 02:26:44,720
you have the luxury

10087
02:26:44,720 --> 02:26:45,280
of being able

10088
02:26:45,280 --> 02:26:45,820
to take

10089
02:26:45,820 --> 02:26:47,440
fairly complex

10090
02:26:47,440 --> 02:26:49,040
intellectual ideas

10091
02:26:49,040 --> 02:26:51,380
and push them up

10092
02:26:51,380 --> 02:26:52,360
like that

10093
02:26:52,360 --> 02:26:52,800
would normally

10094
02:26:52,800 --> 02:26:53,820
take a long time

10095
02:26:53,820 --> 02:26:54,300
to sort of

10096
02:26:54,300 --> 02:26:55,500
organically get traction

10097
02:26:55,500 --> 02:26:56,360
like some

10098
02:26:56,360 --> 02:26:57,280
with Sandeepa Java

10099
02:26:57,280 --> 02:26:58,100
as an example

10100
02:26:58,100 --> 02:26:59,280
so it would take

10101
02:26:59,280 --> 02:26:59,720
a long time

10102
02:26:59,720 --> 02:27:00,200
to organically

10103
02:27:00,200 --> 02:27:00,720
get traction

10104
02:27:00,720 --> 02:27:01,620
but you can put

10105
02:27:01,620 --> 02:27:02,200
your weight behind

10106
02:27:02,200 --> 02:27:02,920
and push them up

10107
02:27:02,920 --> 02:27:04,500
so we have

10108
02:27:04,500 --> 02:27:05,200
some of those moves

10109
02:27:05,200 --> 02:27:05,900
we can make

10110
02:27:05,900 --> 02:27:07,980
but also

10111
02:27:07,980 --> 02:27:08,360
I've seen

10112
02:27:08,360 --> 02:27:08,780
that it's

10113
02:27:08,780 --> 02:27:09,560
it's

10114
02:27:09,560 --> 02:27:11,240
it's very difficult

10115
02:27:11,240 --> 02:27:11,800
for us to be

10116
02:27:11,800 --> 02:27:12,540
a command and control

10117
02:27:12,540 --> 02:27:13,140
organization

10118
02:27:13,140 --> 02:27:13,620
and you spoke

10119
02:27:13,620 --> 02:27:14,600
about the difficulties

10120
02:27:14,600 --> 02:27:18,700
that you had

10121
02:27:18,700 --> 02:27:19,640
to learn

10122
02:27:19,640 --> 02:27:20,280
with Novell

10123
02:27:20,280 --> 02:27:22,980
but for us

10124
02:27:22,980 --> 02:27:23,540
as a

10125
02:27:23,540 --> 02:27:24,960
as an organization

10126
02:27:24,960 --> 02:27:25,800
like a command

10127
02:27:25,800 --> 02:27:26,680
and control organization

10128
02:27:26,680 --> 02:27:27,240
with the leadership

10129
02:27:27,240 --> 02:27:27,760
and people

10130
02:27:27,760 --> 02:27:28,740
who carry out tasks

10131
02:27:28,740 --> 02:27:30,320
we're in a position

10132
02:27:30,320 --> 02:27:30,880
where

10133
02:27:30,880 --> 02:27:32,900
we have the full

10134
02:27:32,900 --> 02:27:34,040
force of the

10135
02:27:34,040 --> 02:27:34,600
superpower

10136
02:27:34,600 --> 02:27:35,600
and its

10137
02:27:35,600 --> 02:27:36,620
investigative organs

10138
02:27:36,620 --> 02:27:37,520
and

10139
02:27:37,520 --> 02:27:39,620
the rest of NATO

10140
02:27:39,620 --> 02:27:42,460
operating

10141
02:27:42,460 --> 02:27:43,400
against us

10142
02:27:43,400 --> 02:27:44,760
bribing people

10143
02:27:44,760 --> 02:27:47,200
monitoring

10144
02:27:47,200 --> 02:27:48,000
communications

10145
02:27:48,000 --> 02:27:48,980
etc

10146
02:27:48,980 --> 02:27:50,080
so that means

10147
02:27:50,080 --> 02:27:50,720
that for us

10148
02:27:50,720 --> 02:27:51,600
any little

10149
02:27:51,600 --> 02:27:53,760
psychological weakness

10150
02:27:53,760 --> 02:27:54,900
in our people

10151
02:27:54,900 --> 02:27:56,540
any friction

10152
02:27:56,540 --> 02:27:58,240
between our people

10153
02:27:58,240 --> 02:28:00,240
can lead

10154
02:28:00,240 --> 02:28:01,560
to those forces

10155
02:28:01,560 --> 02:28:02,300
plucking them off

10156
02:28:02,300 --> 02:28:03,780
or you could be

10157
02:28:03,780 --> 02:28:04,300
infiltrated

10158
02:28:04,300 --> 02:28:06,600
or infiltrated

10159
02:28:06,600 --> 02:28:07,820
the plucking off

10160
02:28:07,820 --> 02:28:08,500
I think is a bigger

10161
02:28:08,500 --> 02:28:08,840
problem

10162
02:28:08,840 --> 02:28:09,140
but

10163
02:28:09,140 --> 02:28:11,620
the force

10164
02:28:11,620 --> 02:28:12,060
as opposed

10165
02:28:12,060 --> 02:28:12,180
to

10166
02:28:12,180 --> 02:28:13,040
the infiltration

10167
02:28:13,040 --> 02:28:13,780
the force

10168
02:28:13,780 --> 02:28:14,140
as opposed

10169
02:28:14,140 --> 02:28:14,360
to you

10170
02:28:14,360 --> 02:28:15,020
they will

10171
02:28:15,020 --> 02:28:15,440
think

10172
02:28:15,440 --> 02:28:15,840
okay

10173
02:28:15,840 --> 02:28:16,360
this is a

10174
02:28:16,360 --> 02:28:17,020
foreign actor

10175
02:28:17,020 --> 02:28:18,280
let's send

10176
02:28:18,280 --> 02:28:18,800
our agent

10177
02:28:18,800 --> 02:28:19,180
in

10178
02:28:19,180 --> 02:28:20,420
become a member

10179
02:28:20,420 --> 02:28:21,920
discover all

10180
02:28:21,920 --> 02:28:22,480
their secrets

10181
02:28:22,480 --> 02:28:22,900
right

10182
02:28:22,900 --> 02:28:23,380
so

10183
02:28:23,380 --> 02:28:24,880
I mean

10184
02:28:24,880 --> 02:28:25,100
we

10185
02:28:25,100 --> 02:28:26,100
are aware

10186
02:28:26,100 --> 02:28:26,380
of that

10187
02:28:26,380 --> 02:28:26,740
problem

10188
02:28:26,740 --> 02:28:27,000
and

10189
02:28:27,000 --> 02:28:28,160
so we

10190
02:28:28,160 --> 02:28:28,440
investigate

10191
02:28:28,440 --> 02:28:28,900
people

10192
02:28:28,900 --> 02:28:29,280
and all

10193
02:28:29,280 --> 02:28:29,580
this stuff

10194
02:28:29,580 --> 02:28:30,740
but what

10195
02:28:30,740 --> 02:28:31,220
that means

10196
02:28:31,220 --> 02:28:31,640
is it

10197
02:28:31,640 --> 02:28:31,660
is it

10198
02:28:31,660 --> 02:28:32,360
has

10199
02:28:32,360 --> 02:28:33,180
tremendously

10200
02:28:33,180 --> 02:28:33,600
slowed

10201
02:28:33,600 --> 02:28:34,520
down our growth

10202
02:28:34,520 --> 02:28:35,200
because you

10203
02:28:35,200 --> 02:28:35,580
can't just

10204
02:28:35,580 --> 02:28:36,100
put an ad

10205
02:28:36,100 --> 02:28:36,620
out and say

10206
02:28:36,620 --> 02:28:37,040
we want you

10207
02:28:37,040 --> 02:28:37,460
to have these

10208
02:28:37,460 --> 02:28:37,760
skills

10209
02:28:37,760 --> 02:28:38,120
and come

10210
02:28:38,120 --> 02:28:38,740
into the office

10211
02:28:38,740 --> 02:28:39,420
it is absolutely

10212
02:28:39,420 --> 02:28:39,900
impossible

10213
02:28:39,900 --> 02:28:43,880
so growth

10214
02:28:43,880 --> 02:28:44,220
is

10215
02:28:44,220 --> 02:28:44,960
constrained

10216
02:28:44,960 --> 02:28:45,740
in that way

10217
02:28:45,740 --> 02:28:48,820
but there's another way

10218
02:28:48,820 --> 02:28:49,240
of leading

10219
02:28:49,240 --> 02:28:50,880
and that's leading

10220
02:28:50,880 --> 02:28:51,820
through values

10221
02:28:51,820 --> 02:28:53,260
instead of command

10222
02:28:53,260 --> 02:28:53,840
and control

10223
02:28:53,840 --> 02:28:58,040
and when you lead

10224
02:28:58,040 --> 02:28:59,040
through values

10225
02:28:59,040 --> 02:29:01,000
you don't need to

10226
02:29:01,000 --> 02:29:01,820
trust people

10227
02:29:01,820 --> 02:29:04,800
and values

10228
02:29:04,800 --> 02:29:05,660
and the number of

10229
02:29:05,660 --> 02:29:06,580
people who can adopt

10230
02:29:06,580 --> 02:29:07,060
a value

10231
02:29:07,060 --> 02:29:08,560
there's no limit

10232
02:29:08,560 --> 02:29:09,220
on the speed of

10233
02:29:09,220 --> 02:29:09,620
adoption

10234
02:29:09,620 --> 02:29:10,680
and it will happen

10235
02:29:10,680 --> 02:29:11,440
very very quickly

10236
02:29:11,440 --> 02:29:12,820
as it's not

10237
02:29:12,820 --> 02:29:14,700
supply

10238
02:29:14,700 --> 02:29:15,540
in terms of

10239
02:29:15,540 --> 02:29:16,520
employer supply

10240
02:29:16,520 --> 02:29:17,040
limited

10241
02:29:17,040 --> 02:29:18,020
rather it's demand

10242
02:29:18,020 --> 02:29:18,440
limited

10243
02:29:18,440 --> 02:29:19,360
as soon as people

10244
02:29:19,360 --> 02:29:20,020
demand the value

10245
02:29:20,020 --> 02:29:20,820
they can adopt it

10246
02:29:20,820 --> 02:29:21,880
I say that

10247
02:29:21,880 --> 02:29:22,980
the way I express that

10248
02:29:22,980 --> 02:29:23,740
is that the power

10249
02:29:23,740 --> 02:29:24,380
of an idea

10250
02:29:24,380 --> 02:29:26,000
is underappreciated

10251
02:29:26,000 --> 02:29:27,400
if you can get

10252
02:29:27,400 --> 02:29:27,960
the idea

10253
02:29:27,960 --> 02:29:29,280
inserted correctly

10254
02:29:29,280 --> 02:29:30,940
then millions

10255
02:29:30,940 --> 02:29:31,300
of people

10256
02:29:31,300 --> 02:29:32,860
so

10257
02:29:32,860 --> 02:29:34,640
my comment

10258
02:29:34,640 --> 02:29:35,420
my comment

10259
02:29:35,420 --> 02:29:35,980
would be

10260
02:29:35,980 --> 02:29:37,120
that

10261
02:29:37,120 --> 02:29:38,800
the deeper

10262
02:29:38,800 --> 02:29:39,480
ideas

10263
02:29:39,480 --> 02:29:40,120
that you're

10264
02:29:40,120 --> 02:29:40,800
talking about

10265
02:29:40,800 --> 02:29:42,000
are being

10266
02:29:42,000 --> 02:29:42,540
they're either

10267
02:29:42,540 --> 02:29:43,200
not understood

10268
02:29:43,200 --> 02:29:44,040
or they're being

10269
02:29:44,040 --> 02:29:44,800
fought by

10270
02:29:44,800 --> 02:29:45,380
misinformation

10271
02:29:45,380 --> 02:29:47,740
you know

10272
02:29:47,740 --> 02:29:48,140
as you said

10273
02:29:48,140 --> 02:29:48,920
it's a clever

10274
02:29:48,920 --> 02:29:49,620
use of words

10275
02:29:49,620 --> 02:29:50,200
to turn against

10276
02:29:50,200 --> 02:29:51,220
you or what have you

10277
02:29:51,220 --> 02:29:53,560
so you have

10278
02:29:53,560 --> 02:29:54,400
I think a challenge

10279
02:29:54,400 --> 02:29:55,320
to get the deeper

10280
02:29:55,320 --> 02:29:56,920
arguments that you've

10281
02:29:56,920 --> 02:29:57,560
made to us

10282
02:29:57,560 --> 02:29:58,580
heard over

10283
02:29:58,580 --> 02:30:00,060
all these other forces

10284
02:30:00,060 --> 02:30:01,400
I mean

10285
02:30:01,400 --> 02:30:01,800
people

10286
02:30:01,800 --> 02:30:04,380
if saying it

10287
02:30:04,380 --> 02:30:04,680
well

10288
02:30:04,680 --> 02:30:05,680
if you say lies

10289
02:30:05,680 --> 02:30:06,060
long enough

10290
02:30:06,060 --> 02:30:06,860
people start to believe

10291
02:30:06,860 --> 02:30:07,240
them as well

10292
02:30:07,240 --> 02:30:07,460
but

10293
02:30:07,460 --> 02:30:07,740
I have no idea

10294
02:30:07,740 --> 02:30:10,500
so this

10295
02:30:10,500 --> 02:30:12,120
the Afghan release

10296
02:30:12,120 --> 02:30:13,120
was a terrible thing

10297
02:30:13,120 --> 02:30:13,740
this is now

10298
02:30:13,740 --> 02:30:14,140
sort of

10299
02:30:14,140 --> 02:30:15,340
spread so fast

10300
02:30:15,340 --> 02:30:16,040
that we're basically

10301
02:30:16,040 --> 02:30:16,640
given up

10302
02:30:16,640 --> 02:30:17,700
trying to

10303
02:30:17,700 --> 02:30:18,960
knock it down

10304
02:30:18,960 --> 02:30:19,580
the energy's

10305
02:30:19,580 --> 02:30:19,900
better off

10306
02:30:19,900 --> 02:30:20,220
spent

10307
02:30:20,220 --> 02:30:21,220
doing something else

10308
02:30:21,220 --> 02:30:25,120
but we do see

10309
02:30:25,120 --> 02:30:26,520
that we are educating

10310
02:30:26,520 --> 02:30:27,860
a whole range

10311
02:30:27,860 --> 02:30:28,300
of people

10312
02:30:28,300 --> 02:30:29,420
about us

10313
02:30:29,420 --> 02:30:30,540
and about our values

10314
02:30:30,540 --> 02:30:31,400
and about things

10315
02:30:31,400 --> 02:30:32,260
that we believe in

10316
02:30:32,260 --> 02:30:34,460
and now

10317
02:30:34,460 --> 02:30:35,200
what is happening

10318
02:30:35,200 --> 02:30:36,180
is that these people

10319
02:30:36,180 --> 02:30:37,400
are finding each other

10320
02:30:37,400 --> 02:30:39,020
across the world

10321
02:30:39,020 --> 02:30:39,880
and across states

10322
02:30:39,880 --> 02:30:40,880
and

10323
02:30:40,880 --> 02:30:42,400
so we are creating

10324
02:30:42,400 --> 02:30:43,300
our own

10325
02:30:43,300 --> 02:30:45,540
computational network

10326
02:30:45,540 --> 02:30:46,540
of human beings

10327
02:30:46,540 --> 02:30:47,640
that we can think

10328
02:30:47,640 --> 02:30:48,360
in the same way

10329
02:30:48,360 --> 02:30:48,600
that

10330
02:30:48,600 --> 02:30:49,900
on a point

10331
02:30:49,900 --> 02:30:50,660
to point basis

10332
02:30:50,660 --> 02:30:51,640
can trust each other

10333
02:30:51,640 --> 02:30:52,880
and

10334
02:30:52,880 --> 02:30:55,240
so we started out

10335
02:30:55,240 --> 02:30:55,840
last year

10336
02:30:55,840 --> 02:30:56,280
in a position

10337
02:30:56,280 --> 02:30:56,700
where we had

10338
02:30:56,700 --> 02:30:57,900
this big confrontation

10339
02:30:57,900 --> 02:30:58,800
with the State Department

10340
02:30:58,800 --> 02:31:00,700
and the Pentagon

10341
02:31:00,700 --> 02:31:01,700
at the same time

10342
02:31:01,700 --> 02:31:03,100
where one of

10343
02:31:03,100 --> 02:31:04,140
one of our few claims

10344
02:31:04,140 --> 02:31:04,700
to success

10345
02:31:04,700 --> 02:31:05,420
is that we've managed

10346
02:31:05,420 --> 02:31:06,000
to get the Pentagon

10347
02:31:06,000 --> 02:31:06,660
and the State Department

10348
02:31:06,660 --> 02:31:07,200
to cooperate

10349
02:31:07,200 --> 02:31:12,300
where they

10350
02:31:12,300 --> 02:31:12,800
they

10351
02:31:12,800 --> 02:31:13,400
as

10352
02:31:13,400 --> 02:31:14,300
internally

10353
02:31:14,300 --> 02:31:15,700
were highly organized

10354
02:31:15,700 --> 02:31:16,420
they have their

10355
02:31:16,420 --> 02:31:17,440
contact sheets

10356
02:31:17,440 --> 02:31:18,320
they have an internal

10357
02:31:18,320 --> 02:31:19,160
mail system

10358
02:31:19,160 --> 02:31:22,140
and they have a

10359
02:31:22,140 --> 02:31:22,960
command and control

10360
02:31:22,960 --> 02:31:23,380
structure

10361
02:31:23,380 --> 02:31:24,100
where they can task

10362
02:31:24,100 --> 02:31:24,460
people

10363
02:31:24,460 --> 02:31:26,160
and recruit resources

10364
02:31:26,160 --> 02:31:27,260
for things

10365
02:31:27,260 --> 02:31:30,420
and they have

10366
02:31:30,420 --> 02:31:32,440
people available

10367
02:31:32,440 --> 02:31:33,680
to spend on us

10368
02:31:33,680 --> 02:31:34,380
maybe there's

10369
02:31:34,380 --> 02:31:35,480
10,000

10370
02:31:35,480 --> 02:31:36,700
so

10371
02:31:36,700 --> 02:31:38,040
that's

10372
02:31:38,040 --> 02:31:40,000
in that particular

10373
02:31:40,000 --> 02:31:40,300
case

10374
02:31:40,300 --> 02:31:40,640
the people

10375
02:31:40,640 --> 02:31:41,060
that are pushing

10376
02:31:41,060 --> 02:31:41,640
against us

10377
02:31:41,640 --> 02:31:42,840
on the other hand

10378
02:31:42,840 --> 02:31:43,800
on our side

10379
02:31:43,800 --> 02:31:44,660
we have

10380
02:31:44,660 --> 02:31:45,400
millions

10381
02:31:45,400 --> 02:31:46,360
of people

10382
02:31:46,360 --> 02:31:47,020
around the world

10383
02:31:47,020 --> 02:31:48,460
who support us

10384
02:31:48,460 --> 02:31:50,760
and support our values

10385
02:31:50,760 --> 02:31:52,240
who are

10386
02:31:52,240 --> 02:31:53,380
on the other hand

10387
02:31:53,380 --> 02:31:55,880
traditionally

10388
02:31:55,880 --> 02:31:57,380
completely atomized

10389
02:31:57,380 --> 02:31:59,040
there's no command

10390
02:31:59,040 --> 02:31:59,980
and control structure

10391
02:31:59,980 --> 02:32:01,940
they're not able

10392
02:32:01,940 --> 02:32:02,600
to effectively

10393
02:32:02,600 --> 02:32:03,060
coordinate

10394
02:32:03,060 --> 02:32:03,800
with each other

10395
02:32:03,800 --> 02:32:04,460
so

10396
02:32:04,460 --> 02:32:05,800
that's

10397
02:32:05,800 --> 02:32:06,460
the starting

10398
02:32:06,460 --> 02:32:07,200
condition

10399
02:32:07,200 --> 02:32:08,060
but of course

10400
02:32:08,060 --> 02:32:09,700
an organization

10401
02:32:09,700 --> 02:32:10,780
starts to form

10402
02:32:10,780 --> 02:32:12,080
with these people

10403
02:32:12,080 --> 02:32:12,740
as they find

10404
02:32:12,740 --> 02:32:13,480
each other locally

10405
02:32:13,480 --> 02:32:15,040
and as they discover

10406
02:32:15,040 --> 02:32:15,520
each other

10407
02:32:15,520 --> 02:32:17,180
and they become

10408
02:32:17,180 --> 02:32:17,800
optimized

10409
02:32:17,800 --> 02:32:19,540
that network of nodes

10410
02:32:19,540 --> 02:32:20,540
starts linking up

10411
02:32:20,540 --> 02:32:21,440
and becoming more

10412
02:32:21,440 --> 02:32:22,600
and more efficient

10413
02:32:22,600 --> 02:32:24,000
at comprehending

10414
02:32:24,000 --> 02:32:24,660
its environment

10415
02:32:24,660 --> 02:32:25,760
planning for acting

10416
02:32:25,760 --> 02:32:26,420
action

10417
02:32:26,420 --> 02:32:27,180
and then acting

10418
02:32:27,180 --> 02:32:29,060
so there's some ways

10419
02:32:29,060 --> 02:32:30,500
some plans we have

10420
02:32:30,500 --> 02:32:31,620
to potentiate that

10421
02:32:31,620 --> 02:32:35,840
so they're probably

10422
02:32:35,840 --> 02:32:36,680
out by then

10423
02:32:36,680 --> 02:32:37,000
so

10424
02:32:37,000 --> 02:32:39,620
so we're going to

10425
02:32:39,620 --> 02:32:40,420
take these

10426
02:32:40,420 --> 02:32:41,300
graphs

10427
02:32:41,300 --> 02:32:42,160
of several million

10428
02:32:42,160 --> 02:32:42,660
supporters

10429
02:32:42,660 --> 02:32:44,180
and do you know

10430
02:32:44,180 --> 02:32:44,720
what simulated

10431
02:32:44,720 --> 02:32:45,480
annealing is

10432
02:32:45,480 --> 02:32:47,720
so when you have

10433
02:32:47,720 --> 02:32:48,220
an alloy

10434
02:32:48,220 --> 02:32:50,380
rather when you're

10435
02:32:50,380 --> 02:32:51,440
trying to make an alloy

10436
02:32:51,440 --> 02:32:52,380
with two different

10437
02:32:52,380 --> 02:32:52,720
metals

10438
02:32:52,720 --> 02:32:55,220
and the idea

10439
02:32:55,220 --> 02:32:55,860
is you put these

10440
02:32:55,860 --> 02:32:56,420
metals together

10441
02:32:56,420 --> 02:32:57,140
you put these

10442
02:32:57,140 --> 02:32:57,620
metals together

10443
02:32:57,620 --> 02:32:58,020
and you mix

10444
02:32:58,020 --> 02:32:58,520
them together

10445
02:32:58,520 --> 02:33:00,760
and they settle

10446
02:33:00,760 --> 02:33:01,680
the molecules

10447
02:33:01,680 --> 02:33:02,240
of the two

10448
02:33:02,240 --> 02:33:03,340
different respective

10449
02:33:03,340 --> 02:33:04,480
metals settle

10450
02:33:04,480 --> 02:33:05,560
into an arrangement

10451
02:33:05,560 --> 02:33:06,500
with each other

10452
02:33:06,500 --> 02:33:08,360
where they are

10453
02:33:08,360 --> 02:33:10,220
in the sort of

10454
02:33:10,220 --> 02:33:11,740
tightest attraction

10455
02:33:11,740 --> 02:33:12,460
to each other

10456
02:33:12,460 --> 02:33:14,680
the lowest energy

10457
02:33:14,680 --> 02:33:15,140
state

10458
02:33:15,140 --> 02:33:17,260
and to get them

10459
02:33:17,260 --> 02:33:18,500
into this state

10460
02:33:18,500 --> 02:33:19,340
can be quite hard

10461
02:33:19,340 --> 02:33:20,200
because if

10462
02:33:20,200 --> 02:33:21,520
one molecule

10463
02:33:21,520 --> 02:33:22,640
might be buddied up

10464
02:33:22,640 --> 02:33:23,780
with another

10465
02:33:23,780 --> 02:33:24,500
to its left

10466
02:33:24,500 --> 02:33:25,520
but the most

10467
02:33:25,520 --> 02:33:27,160
the strongest arrangement

10468
02:33:27,160 --> 02:33:27,700
might be

10469
02:33:27,700 --> 02:33:28,780
if it joins the molecules

10470
02:33:28,780 --> 02:33:29,400
to its right

10471
02:33:29,400 --> 02:33:31,000
it's already close

10472
02:33:31,000 --> 02:33:31,380
to the ones

10473
02:33:31,380 --> 02:33:31,900
to its left

10474
02:33:31,900 --> 02:33:32,620
so it has to

10475
02:33:32,620 --> 02:33:32,980
sort of

10476
02:33:32,980 --> 02:33:34,740
it needs a kick

10477
02:33:34,740 --> 02:33:35,580
to get out

10478
02:33:35,580 --> 02:33:36,120
of the position

10479
02:33:36,120 --> 02:33:36,460
it's in

10480
02:33:36,460 --> 02:33:37,440
and into this new position

10481
02:33:37,440 --> 02:33:38,860
and

10482
02:33:38,860 --> 02:33:40,940
so

10483
02:33:40,940 --> 02:33:41,940
this is called

10484
02:33:41,940 --> 02:33:42,360
annealing

10485
02:33:42,360 --> 02:33:42,960
and

10486
02:33:42,960 --> 02:33:44,540
you'll see

10487
02:33:44,540 --> 02:33:45,240
that when people

10488
02:33:45,240 --> 02:33:45,800
are making

10489
02:33:45,800 --> 02:33:46,500
these alloys

10490
02:33:46,500 --> 02:33:47,000
they will

10491
02:33:47,000 --> 02:33:48,920
melt the metals

10492
02:33:48,920 --> 02:33:49,260
together

10493
02:33:49,260 --> 02:33:49,880
pour them

10494
02:33:49,880 --> 02:33:51,720
and then let them

10495
02:33:51,720 --> 02:33:52,060
cool

10496
02:33:52,060 --> 02:33:53,140
a bit

10497
02:33:53,140 --> 02:33:54,880
and then

10498
02:33:54,880 --> 02:33:56,640
heat them up a bit

10499
02:33:56,640 --> 02:33:57,700
let them cool a bit

10500
02:33:57,700 --> 02:33:58,380
heat them up a bit

10501
02:33:58,380 --> 02:33:59,360
not so much

10502
02:33:59,360 --> 02:33:59,920
each time

10503
02:33:59,920 --> 02:34:00,980
and they might even

10504
02:34:00,980 --> 02:34:01,680
do things like

10505
02:34:01,680 --> 02:34:03,020
smack them

10506
02:34:03,020 --> 02:34:03,640
and hit them

10507
02:34:03,640 --> 02:34:05,540
so they might

10508
02:34:05,540 --> 02:34:06,340
actually physically

10509
02:34:06,340 --> 02:34:07,500
smash them

10510
02:34:07,500 --> 02:34:08,680
so

10511
02:34:08,680 --> 02:34:10,140
we have this system

10512
02:34:10,140 --> 02:34:10,720
we are developing

10513
02:34:10,720 --> 02:34:11,520
where we will put

10514
02:34:11,520 --> 02:34:12,440
all these people

10515
02:34:12,440 --> 02:34:14,160
into

10516
02:34:14,160 --> 02:34:16,440
a network

10517
02:34:16,440 --> 02:34:17,380
which we will

10518
02:34:17,380 --> 02:34:17,920
anneal

10519
02:34:17,920 --> 02:34:19,540
using a simulated

10520
02:34:19,540 --> 02:34:20,360
annealing method

10521
02:34:20,360 --> 02:34:22,100
so that

10522
02:34:22,100 --> 02:34:23,120
there is the

10523
02:34:23,120 --> 02:34:24,000
tightest possible

10524
02:34:24,000 --> 02:34:24,860
human arrangement

10525
02:34:24,860 --> 02:34:25,960
between these

10526
02:34:25,960 --> 02:34:27,200
million people

10527
02:34:27,200 --> 02:34:28,780
around the set

10528
02:34:28,780 --> 02:34:29,420
of principles

10529
02:34:29,420 --> 02:34:30,360
around the set

10530
02:34:30,360 --> 02:34:31,240
of principles

10531
02:34:31,240 --> 02:34:32,300
that's the unifier

10532
02:34:32,300 --> 02:34:32,880
I see

10533
02:34:32,880 --> 02:34:34,300
and then

10534
02:34:34,300 --> 02:34:35,660
we have an efficient

10535
02:34:35,660 --> 02:34:36,440
computational

10536
02:34:36,440 --> 02:34:37,760
in terms of human

10537
02:34:37,760 --> 02:34:38,320
computation

10538
02:34:38,320 --> 02:34:40,240
efficient computational

10539
02:34:40,240 --> 02:34:40,760
network

10540
02:34:40,760 --> 02:34:42,220
which can observe

10541
02:34:42,220 --> 02:34:43,280
plan

10542
02:34:43,280 --> 02:34:44,360
and act

10543
02:34:44,360 --> 02:34:44,900
so

10544
02:34:44,900 --> 02:34:46,600
another criticism

10545
02:34:46,600 --> 02:34:47,720
I think

10546
02:34:47,720 --> 02:34:48,260
is

10547
02:34:48,260 --> 02:34:51,080
with respect

10548
02:34:51,080 --> 02:34:51,580
to WikiLeaks

10549
02:34:51,580 --> 02:34:52,580
you were careful

10550
02:34:52,580 --> 02:34:54,420
according to reports

10551
02:34:54,420 --> 02:34:55,680
to work

10552
02:34:55,680 --> 02:34:56,480
to redact

10553
02:34:56,480 --> 02:34:58,820
sensitive information

10554
02:34:58,820 --> 02:35:00,280
as I understand

10555
02:35:00,280 --> 02:35:00,620
it there was

10556
02:35:00,620 --> 02:35:01,720
an editing process

10557
02:35:01,720 --> 02:35:02,660
somebody had to

10558
02:35:02,660 --> 02:35:03,240
build a specialized

10559
02:35:03,240 --> 02:35:03,920
search engine

10560
02:35:03,920 --> 02:35:04,500
because the documents

10561
02:35:04,500 --> 02:35:05,320
were so complicated

10562
02:35:05,320 --> 02:35:07,300
it was a fairly lengthy

10563
02:35:07,300 --> 02:35:08,120
review period

10564
02:35:08,120 --> 02:35:08,740
with the

10565
02:35:08,740 --> 02:35:11,320
mainstream media

10566
02:35:11,320 --> 02:35:12,220
you know

10567
02:35:12,220 --> 02:35:12,480
et cetera

10568
02:35:12,480 --> 02:35:12,760
et cetera

10569
02:35:12,760 --> 02:35:13,080
et cetera

10570
02:35:13,080 --> 02:35:13,820
and that's

10571
02:35:13,820 --> 02:35:14,380
that's all

10572
02:35:14,380 --> 02:35:15,620
I think fairly well

10573
02:35:15,620 --> 02:35:16,040
documented

10574
02:35:16,040 --> 02:35:17,880
now imagine

10575
02:35:17,880 --> 02:35:18,880
the

10576
02:35:18,880 --> 02:35:19,700
a second

10577
02:35:19,700 --> 02:35:20,580
another person

10578
02:35:20,580 --> 02:35:21,160
not you

10579
02:35:21,160 --> 02:35:22,620
who does not have

10580
02:35:22,620 --> 02:35:23,200
the same

10581
02:35:23,200 --> 02:35:24,140
values

10582
02:35:24,140 --> 02:35:26,300
but has the same

10583
02:35:26,300 --> 02:35:27,100
technology

10584
02:35:27,100 --> 02:35:28,900
because the technology

10585
02:35:28,900 --> 02:35:29,660
is obviously

10586
02:35:29,660 --> 02:35:30,320
copyable

10587
02:35:30,320 --> 02:35:32,820
what happens

10588
02:35:32,820 --> 02:35:33,560
when there's

10589
02:35:33,560 --> 02:35:35,040
more of them

10590
02:35:35,040 --> 02:35:35,600
than there are

10591
02:35:35,600 --> 02:35:36,020
of you

10592
02:35:36,020 --> 02:35:37,760
or one of them

10593
02:35:37,760 --> 02:35:38,360
or one of you

10594
02:35:38,360 --> 02:35:39,180
sources

10595
02:35:39,180 --> 02:35:39,960
so

10596
02:35:39,960 --> 02:35:41,980
who holds

10597
02:35:41,980 --> 02:35:42,920
WikiLeaks

10598
02:35:42,920 --> 02:35:43,400
accountable

10599
02:35:43,400 --> 02:35:45,340
we have our values

10600
02:35:45,340 --> 02:35:46,600
how do people

10601
02:35:46,600 --> 02:35:47,960
see whether we're

10602
02:35:47,960 --> 02:35:48,960
sticking to our values

10603
02:35:48,960 --> 02:35:49,720
or where we trade

10604
02:35:49,720 --> 02:35:50,180
our values

10605
02:35:50,180 --> 02:35:50,780
how do people

10606
02:35:50,780 --> 02:35:51,760
maybe they don't

10607
02:35:51,760 --> 02:35:52,500
like our values

10608
02:35:52,500 --> 02:35:54,480
or maybe they do

10609
02:35:54,480 --> 02:35:55,180
like our values

10610
02:35:55,180 --> 02:35:56,360
how can

10611
02:35:56,360 --> 02:35:56,740
this

10612
02:35:56,740 --> 02:35:58,400
human economic

10613
02:35:58,400 --> 02:35:59,220
ecosystem

10614
02:35:59,220 --> 02:36:00,840
discipline

10615
02:36:00,840 --> 02:36:01,440
us

10616
02:36:01,440 --> 02:36:02,320
or encourage us

10617
02:36:02,320 --> 02:36:03,220
in particular directions

10618
02:36:03,220 --> 02:36:05,540
so

10619
02:36:05,540 --> 02:36:06,920
sources

10620
02:36:06,920 --> 02:36:07,700
speak

10621
02:36:07,700 --> 02:36:08,760
with their feet

10622
02:36:08,760 --> 02:36:10,500
if sources

10623
02:36:10,500 --> 02:36:11,360
believe that we are

10624
02:36:11,360 --> 02:36:12,320
going to protect them

10625
02:36:12,320 --> 02:36:13,520
and that we're going to

10626
02:36:13,520 --> 02:36:14,640
have high impact

10627
02:36:14,640 --> 02:36:15,320
for the material

10628
02:36:15,320 --> 02:36:16,440
they will simply

10629
02:36:16,440 --> 02:36:17,620
give us material

10630
02:36:17,620 --> 02:36:18,440
instead of giving it

10631
02:36:18,440 --> 02:36:19,060
to someone else

10632
02:36:19,060 --> 02:36:20,420
so that's one way

10633
02:36:20,420 --> 02:36:20,800
in which

10634
02:36:20,800 --> 02:36:22,760
we are disciplined

10635
02:36:22,760 --> 02:36:23,840
by the market

10636
02:36:23,840 --> 02:36:24,260
of sources

10637
02:36:24,260 --> 02:36:25,220
so it's a selection bias

10638
02:36:25,220 --> 02:36:25,460
basically

10639
02:36:25,460 --> 02:36:27,340
so the question is

10640
02:36:27,340 --> 02:36:27,560
well

10641
02:36:27,560 --> 02:36:29,460
could sources

10642
02:36:29,460 --> 02:36:29,880
pick

10643
02:36:29,880 --> 02:36:31,320
another group

10644
02:36:31,320 --> 02:36:33,140
that were

10645
02:36:33,140 --> 02:36:36,220
going to publish

10646
02:36:36,220 --> 02:36:37,760
without any

10647
02:36:37,760 --> 02:36:38,480
harm minimization

10648
02:36:38,480 --> 02:36:39,400
procedure at all

10649
02:36:39,400 --> 02:36:42,060
well the answer is

10650
02:36:42,060 --> 02:36:42,340
yes

10651
02:36:42,340 --> 02:36:43,720
but one has to

10652
02:36:43,720 --> 02:36:44,180
understand

10653
02:36:44,180 --> 02:36:45,240
the primary reason

10654
02:36:45,240 --> 02:36:46,320
we engage in harm

10655
02:36:46,320 --> 02:36:48,260
minimization

10656
02:36:48,260 --> 02:36:48,780
procedures

10657
02:36:48,780 --> 02:36:51,960
it's not actually

10658
02:36:51,960 --> 02:36:53,300
because

10659
02:36:53,300 --> 02:36:55,020
the material we

10660
02:36:55,020 --> 02:36:55,780
will release

10661
02:36:55,780 --> 02:36:57,480
will have a reasonable

10662
02:36:57,480 --> 02:36:58,940
risk

10663
02:36:58,940 --> 02:37:00,440
of producing

10664
02:37:00,440 --> 02:37:01,200
harm

10665
02:37:01,200 --> 02:37:02,400
as a result of disclosure

10666
02:37:02,400 --> 02:37:04,580
that's very rare

10667
02:37:04,580 --> 02:37:06,360
rather

10668
02:37:06,360 --> 02:37:07,300
there is

10669
02:37:07,300 --> 02:37:08,100
actually

10670
02:37:08,100 --> 02:37:09,500
a probable risk

10671
02:37:09,500 --> 02:37:10,980
that if we don't

10672
02:37:10,980 --> 02:37:15,700
engage in that sort of

10673
02:37:15,700 --> 02:37:16,500
behavior

10674
02:37:16,500 --> 02:37:18,680
our opponents

10675
02:37:18,680 --> 02:37:19,960
will opportunistically

10676
02:37:19,960 --> 02:37:21,720
attempt to

10677
02:37:21,720 --> 02:37:22,580
distract from

10678
02:37:22,580 --> 02:37:23,520
the revelations

10679
02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:24,720
that we have

10680
02:37:24,720 --> 02:37:25,800
revealed

10681
02:37:25,800 --> 02:37:26,660
very important

10682
02:37:26,660 --> 02:37:27,440
matters

10683
02:37:27,440 --> 02:37:28,920
by instead

10684
02:37:28,920 --> 02:37:29,780
speaking about

10685
02:37:29,780 --> 02:37:30,700
is there

10686
02:37:30,700 --> 02:37:31,440
a potential

10687
02:37:31,440 --> 02:37:32,080
for harm

10688
02:37:32,080 --> 02:37:33,080
and therefore

10689
02:37:33,080 --> 02:37:34,400
is this

10690
02:37:34,400 --> 02:37:36,080
release hypocritical

10691
02:37:36,080 --> 02:37:37,240
given that we want

10692
02:37:37,240 --> 02:37:38,000
to promote justice

10693
02:37:38,000 --> 02:37:38,680
and this organization

10694
02:37:38,680 --> 02:37:39,120
hypocritical

10695
02:37:39,120 --> 02:37:39,760
so

10696
02:37:39,760 --> 02:37:41,760
a lot of the

10697
02:37:41,760 --> 02:37:42,940
procedures

10698
02:37:42,940 --> 02:37:44,100
that we engage in

10699
02:37:44,100 --> 02:37:45,780
it's not merely

10700
02:37:45,780 --> 02:37:46,760
to try and

10701
02:37:46,760 --> 02:37:47,060
minimize

10702
02:37:47,060 --> 02:37:48,380
risk

10703
02:37:48,380 --> 02:37:49,880
to people

10704
02:37:49,880 --> 02:37:50,360
who might be

10705
02:37:50,360 --> 02:37:51,200
named in material

10706
02:37:51,200 --> 02:37:53,060
rather it is

10707
02:37:53,060 --> 02:37:53,840
to minimize

10708
02:37:53,840 --> 02:37:54,760
risk

10709
02:37:54,760 --> 02:37:55,560
that

10710
02:37:55,560 --> 02:37:57,340
opportunists

10711
02:37:57,340 --> 02:37:58,280
will

10712
02:37:58,280 --> 02:38:00,360
reduce the impact

10713
02:38:00,360 --> 02:38:01,000
of the material

10714
02:38:01,000 --> 02:38:01,680
when it's released

10715
02:38:01,680 --> 02:38:02,620
so it's

10716
02:38:02,620 --> 02:38:03,940
part of the

10717
02:38:03,940 --> 02:38:05,080
impact maximization

10718
02:38:05,080 --> 02:38:05,820
that we're doing

10719
02:38:05,820 --> 02:38:07,340
is to prevent

10720
02:38:07,340 --> 02:38:09,020
this type of attack

10721
02:38:09,020 --> 02:38:10,260
on

10722
02:38:10,260 --> 02:38:11,580
what we publish

10723
02:38:11,580 --> 02:38:13,320
so from that point

10724
02:38:13,320 --> 02:38:13,620
of view

10725
02:38:13,620 --> 02:38:15,220
intelligence sources

10726
02:38:15,220 --> 02:38:16,060
will understand

10727
02:38:16,060 --> 02:38:17,240
that we do that

10728
02:38:17,240 --> 02:38:17,640
in order to

10729
02:38:17,640 --> 02:38:18,520
maximize impact

10730
02:38:18,520 --> 02:38:20,700
now that said

10731
02:38:20,700 --> 02:38:22,400
I am

10732
02:38:22,400 --> 02:38:24,320
we do not

10733
02:38:24,320 --> 02:38:24,880
permanently

10734
02:38:24,880 --> 02:38:25,640
redact anything

10735
02:38:25,640 --> 02:38:27,340
we only

10736
02:38:27,340 --> 02:38:28,120
do delayed

10737
02:38:28,120 --> 02:38:28,620
redactions

10738
02:38:28,620 --> 02:38:32,020
so we delay

10739
02:38:32,020 --> 02:38:32,560
until

10740
02:38:32,560 --> 02:38:34,260
the security

10741
02:38:34,260 --> 02:38:35,020
situation has

10742
02:38:35,020 --> 02:38:35,340
changed

10743
02:38:35,340 --> 02:38:36,200
and we can

10744
02:38:36,200 --> 02:38:37,020
release this

10745
02:38:37,020 --> 02:38:37,300
and I think

10746
02:38:37,300 --> 02:38:37,660
that is an

10747
02:38:37,660 --> 02:38:38,440
important difference

10748
02:38:38,440 --> 02:38:38,820
to what

10749
02:38:38,820 --> 02:38:39,520
so it's

10750
02:38:39,520 --> 02:38:40,380
is it fair

10751
02:38:40,380 --> 02:38:40,940
to say

10752
02:38:40,940 --> 02:38:41,640
I'm not trying

10753
02:38:41,640 --> 02:38:41,820
to put

10754
02:38:41,820 --> 02:38:42,360
words in your mouth

10755
02:38:42,360 --> 02:38:43,680
that eventually

10756
02:38:43,680 --> 02:38:44,260
the things you

10757
02:38:44,260 --> 02:38:44,820
redacted

10758
02:38:44,820 --> 02:38:45,440
will be

10759
02:38:45,440 --> 02:38:46,240
all

10760
02:38:46,240 --> 02:38:47,080
they will all

10761
02:38:47,080 --> 02:38:48,480
be made

10762
02:38:48,480 --> 02:38:48,860
available

10763
02:38:48,860 --> 02:38:49,540
all be made

10764
02:38:49,540 --> 02:38:49,900
available

10765
02:38:49,900 --> 02:38:50,800
that's a different

10766
02:38:50,800 --> 02:38:51,440
question actually

10767
02:38:51,440 --> 02:38:52,020
I think from what

10768
02:38:52,020 --> 02:38:52,440
you're asking

10769
02:38:52,440 --> 02:38:53,120
which is

10770
02:38:53,120 --> 02:38:54,360
what if the same

10771
02:38:54,360 --> 02:38:55,120
process and

10772
02:38:55,120 --> 02:38:55,600
technology

10773
02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:56,340
so I'm getting

10774
02:38:56,340 --> 02:38:56,700
to that

10775
02:38:56,700 --> 02:38:56,960
so

10776
02:38:56,960 --> 02:38:58,540
but it

10777
02:38:58,540 --> 02:38:59,460
disturbs me

10778
02:38:59,460 --> 02:38:59,860
greatly

10779
02:38:59,860 --> 02:39:01,200
it is a

10780
02:39:01,200 --> 02:39:02,540
and we have

10781
02:39:02,540 --> 02:39:03,080
all sorts of other

10782
02:39:03,080 --> 02:39:03,720
projects about

10783
02:39:03,720 --> 02:39:04,360
syndication

10784
02:39:04,360 --> 02:39:05,520
syndicating our

10785
02:39:05,520 --> 02:39:07,660
submission system

10786
02:39:07,660 --> 02:39:08,380
to third party

10787
02:39:08,380 --> 02:39:08,660
systems

10788
02:39:08,660 --> 02:39:08,980
but

10789
02:39:08,980 --> 02:39:11,800
it just

10790
02:39:11,800 --> 02:39:13,300
disturbs me

10791
02:39:13,300 --> 02:39:14,480
that we are

10792
02:39:14,480 --> 02:39:15,300
redacting it all

10793
02:39:15,300 --> 02:39:17,300
it is very

10794
02:39:17,300 --> 02:39:18,160
it is a very

10795
02:39:18,160 --> 02:39:19,080
very dangerous

10796
02:39:19,080 --> 02:39:19,720
slippery slope

10797
02:39:19,720 --> 02:39:21,540
now I've already

10798
02:39:21,540 --> 02:39:22,080
said that

10799
02:39:22,080 --> 02:39:23,120
we go through

10800
02:39:23,120 --> 02:39:23,840
this not

10801
02:39:23,840 --> 02:39:24,940
merely to

10802
02:39:24,940 --> 02:39:26,820
minimise

10803
02:39:26,820 --> 02:39:27,620
harm

10804
02:39:27,620 --> 02:39:29,040
but

10805
02:39:29,040 --> 02:39:30,440
for

10806
02:39:30,440 --> 02:39:31,280
political

10807
02:39:31,280 --> 02:39:32,000
considerations

10808
02:39:32,000 --> 02:39:33,320
to stop

10809
02:39:33,320 --> 02:39:34,360
people

10810
02:39:34,360 --> 02:39:36,440
distracting

10811
02:39:36,440 --> 02:39:37,020
from the

10812
02:39:37,020 --> 02:39:37,740
important part

10813
02:39:37,740 --> 02:39:37,940
of the

10814
02:39:37,940 --> 02:39:38,340
material

10815
02:39:38,340 --> 02:39:39,640
by instead

10816
02:39:39,640 --> 02:39:41,340
hyping up

10817
02:39:41,340 --> 02:39:41,960
concerns about

10818
02:39:41,960 --> 02:39:42,380
risks

10819
02:39:42,380 --> 02:39:43,200
it's a pragmatic

10820
02:39:43,200 --> 02:39:43,840
decision

10821
02:39:43,840 --> 02:39:45,380
it's a pragmatic

10822
02:39:45,380 --> 02:39:47,240
tactical decision

10823
02:39:47,240 --> 02:39:48,980
to keep the

10824
02:39:48,980 --> 02:39:49,340
maximum

10825
02:39:49,340 --> 02:39:51,120
impact there

10826
02:39:51,120 --> 02:39:51,780
instead of having

10827
02:39:51,780 --> 02:39:52,000
it being

10828
02:39:52,000 --> 02:39:52,300
distracted

10829
02:39:52,300 --> 02:39:52,560
against

10830
02:39:52,560 --> 02:39:53,020
so

10831
02:39:53,020 --> 02:39:53,660
but that

10832
02:39:53,660 --> 02:39:54,200
is us

10833
02:39:54,200 --> 02:39:54,900
already

10834
02:39:54,900 --> 02:39:56,140
engaging in

10835
02:39:56,140 --> 02:39:57,340
a rather

10836
02:39:57,340 --> 02:39:57,760
dangerous

10837
02:39:57,760 --> 02:39:58,340
compromise

10838
02:39:58,340 --> 02:40:02,720
now it's not

10839
02:40:02,720 --> 02:40:03,320
nearly to the

10840
02:40:03,320 --> 02:40:03,660
same degree

10841
02:40:03,660 --> 02:40:03,860
as the

10842
02:40:03,860 --> 02:40:04,320
newspapers

10843
02:40:04,320 --> 02:40:04,820
because we've

10844
02:40:04,820 --> 02:40:05,080
done this

10845
02:40:05,080 --> 02:40:05,400
collaboration

10846
02:40:05,400 --> 02:40:05,880
with them

10847
02:40:05,880 --> 02:40:06,400
we can see

10848
02:40:06,400 --> 02:40:06,700
that they

10849
02:40:06,700 --> 02:40:07,460
it's just

10850
02:40:07,460 --> 02:40:07,880
appalling

10851
02:40:07,880 --> 02:40:08,660
we released

10852
02:40:08,660 --> 02:40:09,300
these results

10853
02:40:09,300 --> 02:40:10,300
the analysis

10854
02:40:10,300 --> 02:40:10,760
of their

10855
02:40:10,760 --> 02:40:11,120
redactions

10856
02:40:11,120 --> 02:40:11,860
versus what

10857
02:40:11,860 --> 02:40:12,420
actually needed

10858
02:40:12,420 --> 02:40:12,640
to be

10859
02:40:12,640 --> 02:40:12,940
redacted

10860
02:40:12,940 --> 02:40:13,580
it's extremely

10861
02:40:13,580 --> 02:40:14,040
interesting

10862
02:40:14,040 --> 02:40:15,280
so there

10863
02:40:15,280 --> 02:40:15,520
was a

10864
02:40:15,520 --> 02:40:15,900
difference

10865
02:40:15,900 --> 02:40:16,800
there was

10866
02:40:16,800 --> 02:40:17,260
a difference

10867
02:40:17,260 --> 02:40:17,660
of view

10868
02:40:17,660 --> 02:40:17,940
on what

10869
02:40:17,940 --> 02:40:18,280
needed to be

10870
02:40:18,280 --> 02:40:19,920
the Guardian

10871
02:40:19,920 --> 02:40:21,520
redacted

10872
02:40:21,520 --> 02:40:22,800
two-thirds

10873
02:40:22,800 --> 02:40:23,340
of a cable

10874
02:40:23,340 --> 02:40:24,160
about Bulgarian

10875
02:40:24,160 --> 02:40:24,620
crime

10876
02:40:24,620 --> 02:40:25,400
removed all

10877
02:40:25,400 --> 02:40:26,120
the names

10878
02:40:26,120 --> 02:40:26,580
of the people

10879
02:40:26,580 --> 02:40:26,880
who had

10880
02:40:26,880 --> 02:40:27,520
infiltrated

10881
02:40:27,520 --> 02:40:28,520
the mafioso

10882
02:40:28,520 --> 02:40:28,880
who had

10883
02:40:28,880 --> 02:40:29,340
infiltrated

10884
02:40:29,340 --> 02:40:29,840
the Bulgarian

10885
02:40:29,840 --> 02:40:30,280
government

10886
02:40:30,280 --> 02:40:32,060
removed

10887
02:40:32,060 --> 02:40:34,180
a description

10888
02:40:34,180 --> 02:40:34,880
of

10889
02:40:34,880 --> 02:40:36,520
the Kazakhstan

10890
02:40:36,520 --> 02:40:37,420
elite

10891
02:40:37,420 --> 02:40:39,180
saying

10892
02:40:39,180 --> 02:40:39,720
the Kazakhstan

10893
02:40:39,720 --> 02:40:40,080
elite

10894
02:40:40,080 --> 02:40:40,660
in general

10895
02:40:40,660 --> 02:40:41,300
were corrupt

10896
02:40:41,300 --> 02:40:41,820
not even

10897
02:40:41,820 --> 02:40:42,720
a particular

10898
02:40:42,720 --> 02:40:43,160
name

10899
02:40:43,160 --> 02:40:43,580
just in

10900
02:40:43,580 --> 02:40:43,900
general

10901
02:40:43,900 --> 02:40:44,720
remove

10902
02:40:44,720 --> 02:40:45,300
the description

10903
02:40:45,300 --> 02:40:45,620
that

10904
02:40:45,620 --> 02:40:46,300
a

10905
02:40:46,300 --> 02:40:46,660
energy

10906
02:40:46,660 --> 02:40:47,240
company

10907
02:40:47,240 --> 02:40:48,920
out of

10908
02:40:48,920 --> 02:40:49,260
Italy

10909
02:40:49,260 --> 02:40:49,760
operating

10910
02:40:49,760 --> 02:40:50,340
in Kazakhstan

10911
02:40:50,340 --> 02:40:51,000
was corrupt

10912
02:40:51,000 --> 02:40:51,340
so

10913
02:40:51,340 --> 02:40:52,420
they have

10914
02:40:52,420 --> 02:40:53,800
redacted

10915
02:40:53,800 --> 02:40:55,260
for

10916
02:40:55,260 --> 02:40:56,420
naming

10917
02:40:56,420 --> 02:40:56,660
of

10918
02:40:56,660 --> 02:40:57,220
individual

10919
02:40:57,220 --> 02:40:57,540
names

10920
02:40:57,540 --> 02:40:58,000
of people

10921
02:40:58,000 --> 02:40:59,020
who might

10922
02:40:59,020 --> 02:40:59,760
be unfairly

10923
02:40:59,760 --> 02:41:00,340
put at risk

10924
02:41:00,340 --> 02:41:00,880
just like

10925
02:41:00,880 --> 02:41:01,280
we do

10926
02:41:01,280 --> 02:41:02,820
we require

10927
02:41:02,820 --> 02:41:03,260
of them

10928
02:41:03,260 --> 02:41:04,260
they have

10929
02:41:04,260 --> 02:41:04,840
redacted

10930
02:41:04,840 --> 02:41:06,580
the names

10931
02:41:06,580 --> 02:41:07,080
of

10932
02:41:07,080 --> 02:41:08,520
mafioso

10933
02:41:08,520 --> 02:41:10,240
individual

10934
02:41:10,240 --> 02:41:10,860
mafioso

10935
02:41:10,860 --> 02:41:12,960
because

10936
02:41:12,960 --> 02:41:13,760
they're worried

10937
02:41:13,760 --> 02:41:13,780
they're worried

10938
02:41:13,780 --> 02:41:13,980
about

10939
02:41:13,980 --> 02:41:14,480
they might

10940
02:41:14,480 --> 02:41:15,000
get sued

10941
02:41:15,000 --> 02:41:15,600
for libel

10942
02:41:15,600 --> 02:41:16,040
in London

10943
02:41:16,040 --> 02:41:16,740
by these

10944
02:41:16,740 --> 02:41:17,280
mafiosos

10945
02:41:17,280 --> 02:41:17,980
they have

10946
02:41:17,980 --> 02:41:18,640
redacted

10947
02:41:18,640 --> 02:41:19,080
the names

10948
02:41:19,080 --> 02:41:19,920
redacted

10949
02:41:19,920 --> 02:41:20,520
the description

10950
02:41:20,520 --> 02:41:20,900
of a

10951
02:41:20,900 --> 02:41:21,460
class

10952
02:41:21,460 --> 02:41:23,160
Kazakhstan

10953
02:41:23,160 --> 02:41:23,580
elite

10954
02:41:23,580 --> 02:41:24,240
the class

10955
02:41:24,240 --> 02:41:24,540
has been

10956
02:41:24,540 --> 02:41:24,880
corrupt

10957
02:41:24,880 --> 02:41:25,500
and they

10958
02:41:25,500 --> 02:41:26,280
have redacted

10959
02:41:26,280 --> 02:41:27,620
descriptions

10960
02:41:27,620 --> 02:41:28,380
of individual

10961
02:41:28,380 --> 02:41:28,960
companies

10962
02:41:28,960 --> 02:41:29,540
being corrupt

10963
02:41:29,540 --> 02:41:31,180
because

10964
02:41:31,180 --> 02:41:32,060
they don't

10965
02:41:32,060 --> 02:41:32,300
want to

10966
02:41:32,300 --> 02:41:32,560
expose

10967
02:41:32,560 --> 02:41:32,940
themselves

10968
02:41:32,940 --> 02:41:33,500
to any

10969
02:41:33,500 --> 02:41:34,040
risk

10970
02:41:34,040 --> 02:41:34,300
at all

10971
02:41:34,300 --> 02:41:34,760
and that's

10972
02:41:34,760 --> 02:41:35,120
true

10973
02:41:35,120 --> 02:41:36,220
for the

10974
02:41:36,220 --> 02:41:36,480
Irish

10975
02:41:36,480 --> 02:41:36,900
independent

10976
02:41:36,900 --> 02:41:37,360
even though

10977
02:41:37,360 --> 02:41:37,460
they're

10978
02:41:37,460 --> 02:41:37,860
very good

10979
02:41:37,860 --> 02:41:38,300
newspaper

10980
02:41:38,300 --> 02:41:38,720
journalists

10981
02:41:38,720 --> 02:41:39,000
totally

10982
02:41:39,000 --> 02:41:39,380
on side

10983
02:41:39,380 --> 02:41:39,700
legally

10984
02:41:39,700 --> 02:41:40,100
they do

10985
02:41:40,100 --> 02:41:40,320
this

10986
02:41:40,320 --> 02:41:41,840
credible

10987
02:41:41,840 --> 02:41:42,500
self-censorship

10988
02:41:42,500 --> 02:41:43,080
across the board

10989
02:41:43,080 --> 02:41:43,580
and they don't

10990
02:41:43,580 --> 02:41:44,400
admit doing it

10991
02:41:44,400 --> 02:41:45,400
they don't reveal

10992
02:41:45,400 --> 02:41:45,920
the fact that

10993
02:41:45,920 --> 02:41:46,440
they're doing it

10994
02:41:46,440 --> 02:41:47,580
so

10995
02:41:47,580 --> 02:41:49,020
we don't want

10996
02:41:49,020 --> 02:41:49,480
to go down

10997
02:41:49,480 --> 02:41:49,980
that path

10998
02:41:49,980 --> 02:41:50,340
I'm sure

10999
02:41:50,340 --> 02:41:50,940
these groups

11000
02:41:50,940 --> 02:41:51,700
also started

11001
02:41:51,700 --> 02:41:52,060
out

11002
02:41:52,060 --> 02:41:52,960
as no

11003
02:41:52,960 --> 02:41:53,580
we will just

11004
02:41:53,580 --> 02:41:53,960
do these

11005
02:41:53,960 --> 02:41:54,680
little redactions

11006
02:41:54,680 --> 02:41:55,220
and then

11007
02:41:55,220 --> 02:41:55,840
economics

11008
02:41:55,840 --> 02:41:56,660
comes into play

11009
02:41:56,660 --> 02:41:56,940
and then

11010
02:41:56,940 --> 02:41:57,520
why take the

11011
02:41:57,520 --> 02:41:57,760
risk

11012
02:41:57,760 --> 02:41:58,340
and so on

11013
02:41:58,340 --> 02:42:00,540
we end up

11014
02:42:00,540 --> 02:42:00,980
with a system

11015
02:42:00,980 --> 02:42:01,600
of self-censorship

11016
02:42:01,600 --> 02:42:01,940
and it's

11017
02:42:01,940 --> 02:42:02,340
embarrassing

11018
02:42:02,340 --> 02:42:02,820
to do it

11019
02:42:02,820 --> 02:42:03,340
so why tell

11020
02:42:03,340 --> 02:42:03,720
the public

11021
02:42:03,720 --> 02:42:04,000
that you're

11022
02:42:04,000 --> 02:42:04,320
doing it

11023
02:42:04,320 --> 02:42:04,500
but you're

11024
02:42:04,500 --> 02:42:04,780
not telling

11025
02:42:04,780 --> 02:42:05,060
the public

11026
02:42:05,060 --> 02:42:05,240
you're

11027
02:42:05,240 --> 02:42:05,520
doing it

11028
02:42:05,520 --> 02:42:05,860
so it gets

11029
02:42:05,860 --> 02:42:06,240
easier and

11030
02:42:06,240 --> 02:42:06,560
easier to

11031
02:42:06,560 --> 02:42:06,860
do every

11032
02:42:06,860 --> 02:42:07,160
time

11033
02:42:07,160 --> 02:42:09,200
if we look

11034
02:42:09,200 --> 02:42:09,720
at email

11035
02:42:09,720 --> 02:42:10,760
who senses

11036
02:42:10,760 --> 02:42:11,180
email

11037
02:42:11,180 --> 02:42:12,380
no one

11038
02:42:12,380 --> 02:42:12,940
senses email

11039
02:42:12,940 --> 02:42:13,440
we look at

11040
02:42:13,440 --> 02:42:13,860
a telephone

11041
02:42:13,860 --> 02:42:14,340
call to

11042
02:42:14,340 --> 02:42:14,860
your grandmother

11043
02:42:14,860 --> 02:42:15,620
is there

11044
02:42:15,620 --> 02:42:16,100
a census

11045
02:42:16,100 --> 02:42:16,840
there sitting

11046
02:42:16,840 --> 02:42:17,460
on the line

11047
02:42:17,460 --> 02:42:18,300
determining

11048
02:42:18,300 --> 02:42:19,060
whether you

11049
02:42:19,060 --> 02:42:19,940
are about

11050
02:42:19,940 --> 02:42:20,280
to say

11051
02:42:20,280 --> 02:42:20,940
something bad

11052
02:42:20,940 --> 02:42:21,200
to your

11053
02:42:21,200 --> 02:42:21,560
grandmother

11054
02:42:21,560 --> 02:42:22,000
and cutting

11055
02:42:22,000 --> 02:42:22,400
it out

11056
02:42:22,400 --> 02:42:23,120
of course

11057
02:42:23,120 --> 02:42:23,460
not

11058
02:42:23,460 --> 02:42:25,220
the postal

11059
02:42:25,220 --> 02:42:25,720
system

11060
02:42:25,720 --> 02:42:26,720
are there

11061
02:42:26,720 --> 02:42:27,500
people opening

11062
02:42:27,500 --> 02:42:28,100
envelopes

11063
02:42:28,100 --> 02:42:28,360
to see

11064
02:42:28,360 --> 02:42:28,600
whether

11065
02:42:28,600 --> 02:42:28,900
you're

11066
02:42:28,900 --> 02:42:29,220
sending

11067
02:42:29,220 --> 02:42:29,620
something

11068
02:42:29,620 --> 02:42:30,120
bad

11069
02:42:30,120 --> 02:42:31,200
no

11070
02:42:31,200 --> 02:42:34,360
YouTube

11071
02:42:34,360 --> 02:42:36,000
a priori

11072
02:42:36,000 --> 02:42:37,240
is anyone

11073
02:42:37,240 --> 02:42:38,360
sitting there

11074
02:42:38,360 --> 02:42:39,420
reviewing every

11075
02:42:39,420 --> 02:42:40,080
video before

11076
02:42:40,080 --> 02:42:40,660
it's posted

11077
02:42:40,660 --> 02:42:42,500
impossible

11078
02:42:42,500 --> 02:42:43,020
let me give you

11079
02:42:43,020 --> 02:42:43,560
the technical

11080
02:42:43,560 --> 02:42:43,920
answer

11081
02:42:43,920 --> 02:42:44,360
so you make

11082
02:42:44,360 --> 02:42:44,860
sure you know

11083
02:42:44,860 --> 02:42:45,080
it

11084
02:42:45,080 --> 02:42:46,300
we can't

11085
02:42:46,300 --> 02:42:46,840
review every

11086
02:42:46,840 --> 02:42:47,460
submission

11087
02:42:47,460 --> 02:42:47,860
so we

11088
02:42:47,860 --> 02:42:48,480
basically

11089
02:42:48,480 --> 02:42:49,320
the crowd

11090
02:42:49,320 --> 02:42:50,580
marks it

11091
02:42:50,580 --> 02:42:51,560
if it's a problem

11092
02:42:51,560 --> 02:42:52,540
but post

11093
02:42:52,540 --> 02:42:53,020
post publication

11094
02:42:53,020 --> 02:42:53,860
post publication

11095
02:42:53,860 --> 02:42:54,700
so once

11096
02:42:54,700 --> 02:42:55,120
it's out

11097
02:42:55,120 --> 02:42:55,560
people can

11098
02:42:55,560 --> 02:42:56,100
take copies

11099
02:42:56,100 --> 02:42:56,420
and it

11100
02:42:56,420 --> 02:42:56,640
could be

11101
02:42:56,640 --> 02:42:56,880
spreading

11102
02:42:56,880 --> 02:42:57,200
everywhere

11103
02:42:57,200 --> 02:42:58,000
and what

11104
02:42:58,000 --> 02:42:58,600
happens is

11105
02:42:58,600 --> 02:42:59,520
the takedown

11106
02:42:59,520 --> 02:43:01,720
we get

11107
02:43:01,720 --> 02:43:02,200
into trouble

11108
02:43:02,200 --> 02:43:02,640
because

11109
02:43:02,640 --> 02:43:04,060
various players

11110
02:43:04,060 --> 02:43:04,620
want us

11111
02:43:04,620 --> 02:43:04,960
to do

11112
02:43:04,960 --> 02:43:05,960
pre-publication

11113
02:43:05,960 --> 02:43:06,340
review

11114
02:43:06,340 --> 02:43:07,560
but with

11115
02:43:07,560 --> 02:43:08,260
48 hours

11116
02:43:08,260 --> 02:43:08,660
of YouTube

11117
02:43:08,660 --> 02:43:09,720
video coming

11118
02:43:09,720 --> 02:43:10,040
in every

11119
02:43:10,040 --> 02:43:10,340
minute

11120
02:43:10,340 --> 02:43:11,600
we can't

11121
02:43:11,600 --> 02:43:12,100
mechanically

11122
02:43:12,100 --> 02:43:12,580
do it

11123
02:43:12,580 --> 02:43:12,960
right

11124
02:43:12,960 --> 02:43:14,520
so there

11125
02:43:14,520 --> 02:43:14,680
is

11126
02:43:14,680 --> 02:43:15,620
if somebody

11127
02:43:15,620 --> 02:43:16,200
posts something

11128
02:43:16,200 --> 02:43:16,800
wrong or

11129
02:43:16,800 --> 02:43:17,300
evil or

11130
02:43:17,300 --> 02:43:17,960
violation of

11131
02:43:17,960 --> 02:43:18,260
law

11132
02:43:18,260 --> 02:43:18,860
or whatever

11133
02:43:18,860 --> 02:43:20,620
there is a

11134
02:43:20,620 --> 02:43:21,060
gap

11135
02:43:21,060 --> 02:43:22,180
hopefully short

11136
02:43:22,180 --> 02:43:22,860
between the

11137
02:43:22,860 --> 02:43:23,480
time it's

11138
02:43:23,480 --> 02:43:24,520
published

11139
02:43:24,520 --> 02:43:24,980
and then

11140
02:43:24,980 --> 02:43:25,620
marked for

11141
02:43:25,620 --> 02:43:26,420
further review

11142
02:43:26,420 --> 02:43:27,220
against our

11143
02:43:27,220 --> 02:43:27,620
policies

11144
02:43:27,620 --> 02:43:28,060
and the

11145
02:43:28,060 --> 02:43:28,760
policies are

11146
02:43:28,760 --> 02:43:30,140
well specified

11147
02:43:30,140 --> 02:43:30,820
in the document

11148
02:43:30,820 --> 02:43:32,500
it's a pretty

11149
02:43:32,500 --> 02:43:33,040
high bar

11150
02:43:33,040 --> 02:43:33,240
though

11151
02:43:33,240 --> 02:43:33,740
but to take

11152
02:43:33,740 --> 02:43:34,200
stuff down

11153
02:43:34,200 --> 02:43:34,600
it's not

11154
02:43:34,600 --> 02:43:35,020
just wrong

11155
02:43:35,020 --> 02:43:35,260
as in

11156
02:43:35,260 --> 02:43:35,740
we actually

11157
02:43:35,740 --> 02:43:36,180
want us

11158
02:43:36,180 --> 02:43:37,580
but under

11159
02:43:37,580 --> 02:43:37,940
the way

11160
02:43:37,940 --> 02:43:38,320
these things

11161
02:43:38,320 --> 02:43:38,500
work

11162
02:43:38,500 --> 02:43:38,960
commercial

11163
02:43:38,960 --> 02:43:39,460
websites

11164
02:43:39,460 --> 02:43:39,940
have a

11165
02:43:39,940 --> 02:43:40,700
you know

11166
02:43:40,700 --> 02:43:41,160
we can

11167
02:43:41,160 --> 02:43:41,720
decide what

11168
02:43:41,720 --> 02:43:42,320
we want

11169
02:43:42,320 --> 02:43:42,580
to allow

11170
02:43:42,580 --> 02:43:42,880
what we

11171
02:43:42,880 --> 02:43:43,180
don't

11172
02:43:43,180 --> 02:43:43,500
we have

11173
02:43:43,500 --> 02:43:43,720
a set

11174
02:43:43,720 --> 02:43:44,220
of criteria

11175
02:43:44,220 --> 02:43:44,720
you can

11176
02:43:44,720 --> 02:43:45,140
see them

11177
02:43:45,140 --> 02:43:45,420
you can

11178
02:43:45,420 --> 02:43:45,860
read them

11179
02:43:45,860 --> 02:43:46,480
so we

11180
02:43:46,480 --> 02:43:46,860
don't want

11181
02:43:46,860 --> 02:43:47,300
you know

11182
02:43:47,300 --> 02:43:48,420
we want

11183
02:43:48,420 --> 02:43:48,900
some kinds

11184
02:43:48,900 --> 02:43:49,360
of videos

11185
02:43:49,360 --> 02:43:49,700
and some

11186
02:43:49,700 --> 02:43:50,060
other kind

11187
02:43:50,060 --> 02:43:50,260
and we

11188
02:43:50,260 --> 02:43:50,540
don't want

11189
02:43:50,540 --> 02:43:50,760
other kind

11190
02:43:50,760 --> 02:43:51,180
of videos

11191
02:43:51,180 --> 02:43:51,420
and you

11192
02:43:51,420 --> 02:43:51,620
can't

11193
02:43:51,620 --> 02:43:52,240
violate copyright

11194
02:43:52,240 --> 02:43:52,560
and all that

11195
02:43:52,560 --> 02:43:52,980
kind of stuff

11196
02:43:52,980 --> 02:43:54,800
I rather like

11197
02:43:54,800 --> 02:43:55,340
what happened

11198
02:43:55,340 --> 02:43:56,020
to collateral

11199
02:43:56,020 --> 02:43:56,360
murder

11200
02:43:56,360 --> 02:43:57,340
so collateral

11201
02:43:57,340 --> 02:43:57,620
murder

11202
02:43:57,620 --> 02:43:58,320
was instantly

11203
02:43:58,320 --> 02:43:58,980
got flagged

11204
02:43:58,980 --> 02:43:59,440
up as

11205
02:43:59,440 --> 02:44:00,440
why our

11206
02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:00,860
opponents

11207
02:44:00,860 --> 02:44:02,400
as rated

11208
02:44:02,400 --> 02:44:02,960
over 18

11209
02:44:02,960 --> 02:44:03,700
so no one

11210
02:44:03,700 --> 02:44:04,140
could see it

11211
02:44:04,140 --> 02:44:04,580
directly on

11212
02:44:04,580 --> 02:44:04,780
YouTube

11213
02:44:04,780 --> 02:44:05,360
without logging

11214
02:44:05,360 --> 02:44:05,620
in

11215
02:44:05,620 --> 02:44:06,520
but

11216
02:44:06,520 --> 02:44:07,320
when in

11217
02:44:07,320 --> 02:44:07,580
bed

11218
02:44:07,580 --> 02:44:08,180
they could

11219
02:44:08,180 --> 02:44:08,460
see it

11220
02:44:08,460 --> 02:44:08,940
just fine

11221
02:44:08,940 --> 02:44:10,220
and

11222
02:44:10,220 --> 02:44:11,200
so my

11223
02:44:11,200 --> 02:44:12,040
interpretation of

11224
02:44:12,040 --> 02:44:12,700
this is

11225
02:44:12,700 --> 02:44:13,020
that

11226
02:44:13,020 --> 02:44:15,360
when there's

11227
02:44:15,360 --> 02:44:15,700
an embed

11228
02:44:15,700 --> 02:44:16,400
someone else's

11229
02:44:16,400 --> 02:44:16,940
brand is on

11230
02:44:16,940 --> 02:44:17,260
the damn

11231
02:44:17,260 --> 02:44:17,520
thing

11232
02:44:17,520 --> 02:44:18,560
and when it's

11233
02:44:18,560 --> 02:44:19,020
not an embed

11234
02:44:19,020 --> 02:44:19,540
your brand

11235
02:44:19,540 --> 02:44:20,000
is on it

11236
02:44:20,000 --> 02:44:21,900
without knowing

11237
02:44:21,900 --> 02:44:23,060
this specific

11238
02:44:23,060 --> 02:44:23,700
all I can tell

11239
02:44:23,700 --> 02:44:24,080
you is

11240
02:44:24,080 --> 02:44:25,100
the system

11241
02:44:25,100 --> 02:44:25,860
is responsive

11242
02:44:25,860 --> 02:44:27,520
to the

11243
02:44:27,520 --> 02:44:28,460
post publication

11244
02:44:28,460 --> 02:44:29,180
feedback

11245
02:44:29,180 --> 02:44:30,220
there have been

11246
02:44:30,220 --> 02:44:30,840
a couple cases

11247
02:44:30,840 --> 02:44:31,280
in YouTube

11248
02:44:31,280 --> 02:44:32,920
where there

11249
02:44:32,920 --> 02:44:33,340
have been

11250
02:44:33,340 --> 02:44:34,700
rating scams

11251
02:44:34,700 --> 02:44:35,920
where Jared

11252
02:44:35,920 --> 02:44:36,820
will publish

11253
02:44:36,820 --> 02:44:37,760
a document

11254
02:44:37,760 --> 02:44:39,080
and people

11255
02:44:39,080 --> 02:44:39,580
will decide

11256
02:44:39,580 --> 02:44:39,940
they want

11257
02:44:39,940 --> 02:44:40,580
to demote

11258
02:44:40,580 --> 02:44:40,800
him

11259
02:44:40,800 --> 02:44:41,700
so they'll

11260
02:44:41,700 --> 02:44:41,920
give him

11261
02:44:41,920 --> 02:44:42,180
a lot

11262
02:44:42,180 --> 02:44:42,780
of negatives

11263
02:44:42,780 --> 02:44:43,740
because he's

11264
02:44:43,740 --> 02:44:44,380
being attacked

11265
02:44:44,380 --> 02:44:45,100
and then he

11266
02:44:45,100 --> 02:44:46,500
becomes unfairly

11267
02:44:46,500 --> 02:44:47,720
lower ranked

11268
02:44:47,720 --> 02:44:48,200
than he really

11269
02:44:48,200 --> 02:44:48,660
should be

11270
02:44:48,660 --> 02:44:49,760
so these

11271
02:44:49,760 --> 02:44:50,520
systems are

11272
02:44:50,520 --> 02:44:51,580
they're manipulable

11273
02:44:51,580 --> 02:44:52,880
by pressure

11274
02:44:52,880 --> 02:44:53,480
groups

11275
02:44:53,480 --> 02:44:54,180
and I would

11276
02:44:54,180 --> 02:44:54,480
think that

11277
02:44:54,480 --> 02:44:54,800
that would be

11278
02:44:54,800 --> 02:44:55,300
a constant

11279
02:44:55,300 --> 02:44:56,840
sometimes by regimes

11280
02:44:56,840 --> 02:44:57,340
I mean there's

11281
02:44:57,340 --> 02:44:57,840
some autocratic

11282
02:44:57,840 --> 02:44:58,480
regimes that

11283
02:44:58,480 --> 02:44:59,160
will flag

11284
02:44:59,160 --> 02:45:01,000
content by

11285
02:45:01,000 --> 02:45:01,600
posted by

11286
02:45:01,600 --> 02:45:02,140
activists

11287
02:45:02,140 --> 02:45:02,880
as inappropriate

11288
02:45:02,880 --> 02:45:04,420
we've had

11289
02:45:04,420 --> 02:45:04,960
stuff that

11290
02:45:04,960 --> 02:45:05,600
we've posted

11291
02:45:05,600 --> 02:45:06,600
by anti-scientologists

11292
02:45:06,600 --> 02:45:07,320
we've done

11293
02:45:07,320 --> 02:45:07,660
I think

11294
02:45:07,660 --> 02:45:08,940
5,000

11295
02:45:08,940 --> 02:45:10,440
Scientology

11296
02:45:10,440 --> 02:45:10,940
videos

11297
02:45:10,940 --> 02:45:11,660
were removed

11298
02:45:11,660 --> 02:45:13,300
from YouTube

11299
02:45:13,300 --> 02:45:14,020
when some lawyer

11300
02:45:14,020 --> 02:45:14,520
claimed that

11301
02:45:14,520 --> 02:45:14,960
they're all

11302
02:45:14,960 --> 02:45:16,400
they

11303
02:45:16,400 --> 02:45:17,900
swore that

11304
02:45:17,900 --> 02:45:18,180
they're all

11305
02:45:18,180 --> 02:45:18,680
his copyright

11306
02:45:18,680 --> 02:45:19,580
etc

11307
02:45:19,580 --> 02:45:20,480
so

11308
02:45:20,480 --> 02:45:22,060
we suffer

11309
02:45:22,060 --> 02:45:22,960
because

11310
02:45:22,960 --> 02:45:23,640
because of

11311
02:45:23,640 --> 02:45:23,920
the

11312
02:45:23,920 --> 02:45:26,460
because we

11313
02:45:26,460 --> 02:45:28,340
do purely

11314
02:45:28,340 --> 02:45:29,280
really

11315
02:45:29,280 --> 02:45:30,720
political

11316
02:45:30,720 --> 02:45:32,420
I don't mean

11317
02:45:32,420 --> 02:45:33,100
party political

11318
02:45:33,100 --> 02:45:33,560
I need to do

11319
02:45:33,560 --> 02:45:34,120
this political

11320
02:45:34,120 --> 02:45:34,960
sphere

11321
02:45:34,960 --> 02:45:35,940
and how power

11322
02:45:35,940 --> 02:45:36,540
is delegated

11323
02:45:36,540 --> 02:45:36,840
that's when

11324
02:45:36,840 --> 02:45:37,340
we are political

11325
02:45:37,340 --> 02:45:38,360
because we do

11326
02:45:38,360 --> 02:45:38,940
deal with

11327
02:45:38,940 --> 02:45:39,580
almost purely

11328
02:45:39,580 --> 02:45:40,440
political material

11329
02:45:40,440 --> 02:45:42,960
there is such

11330
02:45:42,960 --> 02:45:44,900
scrutiny on us

11331
02:45:44,900 --> 02:45:48,660
that if we

11332
02:45:48,660 --> 02:45:50,120
if we

11333
02:45:50,120 --> 02:45:51,820
at least at this

11334
02:45:51,820 --> 02:45:52,140
moment

11335
02:45:52,140 --> 02:45:52,740
if we were

11336
02:45:52,740 --> 02:45:53,740
to go to a

11337
02:45:53,740 --> 02:45:55,060
publish first

11338
02:45:55,060 --> 02:45:55,700
pull later

11339
02:45:55,700 --> 02:45:59,040
there we go

11340
02:45:59,040 --> 02:45:59,380
oh well

11341
02:45:59,380 --> 02:45:59,900
it's too late

11342
02:45:59,900 --> 02:46:00,660
you put it all

11343
02:46:00,660 --> 02:46:01,020
out there

11344
02:46:01,020 --> 02:46:01,420
now there's a

11345
02:46:01,420 --> 02:46:02,660
thousand copies

11346
02:46:02,660 --> 02:46:03,240
you have a

11347
02:46:03,240 --> 02:46:03,780
different model

11348
02:46:03,780 --> 02:46:04,160
right

11349
02:46:04,160 --> 02:46:05,300
you require

11350
02:46:05,300 --> 02:46:06,000
human editors

11351
02:46:06,000 --> 02:46:07,240
well it's a

11352
02:46:07,240 --> 02:46:07,800
problem though

11353
02:46:07,800 --> 02:46:08,760
it is a

11354
02:46:08,760 --> 02:46:09,440
severe problem

11355
02:46:09,440 --> 02:46:09,900
because it

11356
02:46:09,900 --> 02:46:10,540
means in terms

11357
02:46:10,540 --> 02:46:11,220
of scalability

11358
02:46:11,220 --> 02:46:11,660
things are

11359
02:46:11,660 --> 02:46:12,100
very hard

11360
02:46:12,100 --> 02:46:12,420
for us

11361
02:46:12,420 --> 02:46:12,740
and so

11362
02:46:12,740 --> 02:46:13,040
that's why

11363
02:46:13,040 --> 02:46:13,380
we have

11364
02:46:13,380 --> 02:46:13,960
this new

11365
02:46:13,960 --> 02:46:14,820
syndication

11366
02:46:14,820 --> 02:46:15,240
system

11367
02:46:15,240 --> 02:46:15,660
where we're

11368
02:46:15,660 --> 02:46:16,200
syndicating

11369
02:46:16,200 --> 02:46:16,720
the editing

11370
02:46:16,720 --> 02:46:17,760
to various

11371
02:46:17,760 --> 02:46:18,660
non-profits

11372
02:46:18,660 --> 02:46:19,560
but you're

11373
02:46:19,560 --> 02:46:19,840
fundamentally

11374
02:46:19,840 --> 02:46:20,580
outsourcing

11375
02:46:20,580 --> 02:46:21,640
the human

11376
02:46:21,640 --> 02:46:22,020
judgment

11377
02:46:22,020 --> 02:46:23,200
because it's

11378
02:46:23,200 --> 02:46:23,780
not possible

11379
02:46:23,780 --> 02:46:24,260
today to

11380
02:46:24,260 --> 02:46:24,740
write computer

11381
02:46:24,740 --> 02:46:25,220
algorithms

11382
02:46:25,220 --> 02:46:25,680
that will do

11383
02:46:25,680 --> 02:46:26,040
this thing

11384
02:46:26,040 --> 02:46:27,540
well I think

11385
02:46:27,540 --> 02:46:29,260
that this

11386
02:46:29,260 --> 02:46:29,880
human judgment

11387
02:46:29,880 --> 02:46:30,540
actually

11388
02:46:30,540 --> 02:46:32,700
is more

11389
02:46:32,700 --> 02:46:34,320
yes there

11390
02:46:34,320 --> 02:46:35,360
is some

11391
02:46:35,360 --> 02:46:35,860
cost to

11392
02:46:35,860 --> 02:46:36,180
publishing

11393
02:46:36,180 --> 02:46:36,680
without

11394
02:46:36,680 --> 02:46:37,760
vetting

11395
02:46:37,760 --> 02:46:40,580
but actually

11396
02:46:40,580 --> 02:46:41,560
the problems

11397
02:46:41,560 --> 02:46:42,200
of vetting

11398
02:46:42,200 --> 02:46:43,160
before publication

11399
02:46:43,160 --> 02:46:43,740
are so

11400
02:46:43,740 --> 02:46:44,240
severe

11401
02:46:44,240 --> 02:46:47,340
that there

11402
02:46:47,340 --> 02:46:47,680
are much

11403
02:46:47,680 --> 02:46:48,380
greater problems

11404
02:46:48,380 --> 02:46:48,740
and if you

11405
02:46:48,740 --> 02:46:49,800
had to choose

11406
02:46:49,800 --> 02:46:50,300
between these

11407
02:46:50,300 --> 02:46:50,600
two

11408
02:46:50,600 --> 02:46:51,880
you would

11409
02:46:51,880 --> 02:46:52,600
choose

11410
02:46:52,600 --> 02:46:53,320
publication

11411
02:46:53,320 --> 02:46:54,880
without

11412
02:46:54,880 --> 02:46:55,220
vetting

11413
02:46:55,220 --> 02:46:56,640
that's

11414
02:46:56,640 --> 02:46:57,220
that's also

11415
02:46:57,220 --> 02:46:57,760
interesting

11416
02:46:57,760 --> 02:46:58,760
to us

11417
02:46:58,760 --> 02:46:59,820
that says

11418
02:46:59,820 --> 02:47:00,140
you would

11419
02:47:00,140 --> 02:47:00,700
fundamentally

11420
02:47:00,700 --> 02:47:01,260
prefer

11421
02:47:01,260 --> 02:47:01,900
you're so

11422
02:47:01,900 --> 02:47:02,380
concerned

11423
02:47:02,380 --> 02:47:02,860
about this

11424
02:47:02,860 --> 02:47:03,500
human judgment

11425
02:47:03,500 --> 02:47:04,080
and the

11426
02:47:04,080 --> 02:47:04,940
possibility of

11427
02:47:04,940 --> 02:47:05,500
bias

11428
02:47:05,500 --> 02:47:10,180
we'd ask

11429
02:47:10,180 --> 02:47:13,700
the weight

11430
02:47:13,700 --> 02:47:14,340
if you like

11431
02:47:14,340 --> 02:47:16,300
people can

11432
02:47:16,300 --> 02:47:16,920
come through

11433
02:47:16,920 --> 02:47:17,820
to exercise

11434
02:47:17,820 --> 02:47:18,460
your judgment

11435
02:47:18,460 --> 02:47:23,380
otherwise

11436
02:47:23,380 --> 02:47:25,880
we will be

11437
02:47:25,880 --> 02:47:26,980
compromised

11438
02:47:26,980 --> 02:47:27,600
and other

11439
02:47:27,600 --> 02:47:28,160
people will

11440
02:47:28,160 --> 02:47:28,800
also try

11441
02:47:28,800 --> 02:47:30,000
and once

11442
02:47:30,000 --> 02:47:30,560
once they

11443
02:47:30,560 --> 02:47:31,160
understand that

11444
02:47:31,160 --> 02:47:31,620
we have a

11445
02:47:31,620 --> 02:47:32,100
lever to

11446
02:47:32,100 --> 02:47:32,740
determine what

11447
02:47:32,740 --> 02:47:33,160
is published

11448
02:47:33,160 --> 02:47:33,440
and not

11449
02:47:33,440 --> 02:47:33,860
published

11450
02:47:33,860 --> 02:47:34,720
people will

11451
02:47:34,720 --> 02:47:35,460
try and get

11452
02:47:35,460 --> 02:47:35,960
that lever

11453
02:47:35,960 --> 02:47:37,260
by levering

11454
02:47:37,260 --> 02:47:37,620
us

11455
02:47:37,620 --> 02:47:41,280
i want to

11456
02:47:41,280 --> 02:47:41,580
make sure

11457
02:47:41,580 --> 02:47:42,100
we've got

11458
02:47:42,100 --> 02:47:43,080
jared other

11459
02:47:43,080 --> 02:47:43,700
questions

11460
02:47:43,700 --> 02:47:44,860
well i

11461
02:47:44,860 --> 02:47:45,260
actually i

11462
02:47:45,260 --> 02:47:45,520
had a

11463
02:47:45,520 --> 02:47:45,820
follow-up

11464
02:47:45,820 --> 02:47:46,100
question

11465
02:47:46,100 --> 02:47:46,860
on that

11466
02:47:46,860 --> 02:47:47,080
i mean

11467
02:47:47,080 --> 02:47:47,840
again

11468
02:47:47,840 --> 02:47:48,880
we're looking

11469
02:47:48,880 --> 02:47:49,640
futuristically

11470
02:47:49,640 --> 02:47:50,860
in each

11471
02:47:50,860 --> 02:47:51,660
aspect of

11472
02:47:51,660 --> 02:47:52,100
the book

11473
02:47:52,100 --> 02:47:52,740
and what i

11474
02:47:52,740 --> 02:47:53,320
wonder is

11475
02:47:53,320 --> 02:47:54,000
you have a

11476
02:47:54,000 --> 02:47:54,600
certain volume

11477
02:47:54,600 --> 02:47:55,200
of content

11478
02:47:55,200 --> 02:47:55,760
that you're

11479
02:47:55,760 --> 02:47:56,460
getting right

11480
02:47:56,460 --> 02:47:56,960
now but at

11481
02:47:56,960 --> 02:47:57,240
a certain

11482
02:47:57,240 --> 02:47:57,620
point

11483
02:47:57,620 --> 02:47:58,480
at one point

11484
02:47:58,480 --> 02:47:59,800
twitter only

11485
02:47:59,800 --> 02:48:00,260
had so much

11486
02:48:00,260 --> 02:48:00,820
content as

11487
02:48:00,820 --> 02:48:01,100
well at a

11488
02:48:01,100 --> 02:48:01,520
certain point

11489
02:48:01,520 --> 02:48:02,020
it does

11490
02:48:02,020 --> 02:48:03,400
become so

11491
02:48:03,400 --> 02:48:04,040
overwhelming

11492
02:48:04,040 --> 02:48:04,600
that i

11493
02:48:04,600 --> 02:48:05,160
you know

11494
02:48:05,160 --> 02:48:05,900
to your

11495
02:48:05,900 --> 02:48:06,320
point if

11496
02:48:06,320 --> 02:48:06,920
there's no

11497
02:48:06,920 --> 02:48:08,700
if you

11498
02:48:08,700 --> 02:48:08,980
publish

11499
02:48:08,980 --> 02:48:09,360
everything

11500
02:48:09,360 --> 02:48:09,760
that get

11501
02:48:09,760 --> 02:48:10,500
get sent

11502
02:48:10,500 --> 02:48:10,820
at what

11503
02:48:10,820 --> 02:48:11,740
point is

11504
02:48:11,740 --> 02:48:13,000
there such

11505
02:48:13,000 --> 02:48:13,460
a mixture

11506
02:48:13,460 --> 02:48:14,560
is there so

11507
02:48:14,560 --> 02:48:15,160
much content

11508
02:48:15,160 --> 02:48:16,060
that it's

11509
02:48:16,060 --> 02:48:16,720
just manipulated

11510
02:48:16,720 --> 02:48:17,100
that it

11511
02:48:17,100 --> 02:48:17,560
essentially

11512
02:48:17,560 --> 02:48:20,060
drowns out

11513
02:48:20,060 --> 02:48:20,860
the legitimate

11514
02:48:20,860 --> 02:48:21,380
manipulated

11515
02:48:21,380 --> 02:48:22,000
content will

11516
02:48:22,000 --> 02:48:22,560
never be the

11517
02:48:22,560 --> 02:48:22,880
issue

11518
02:48:22,880 --> 02:48:26,740
although there

11519
02:48:26,740 --> 02:48:27,080
is something

11520
02:48:27,080 --> 02:48:27,580
to be said

11521
02:48:27,580 --> 02:48:27,960
having a

11522
02:48:27,960 --> 02:48:28,620
perfect record

11523
02:48:28,620 --> 02:48:29,060
which we do

11524
02:48:29,060 --> 02:48:29,520
at the moment

11525
02:48:29,520 --> 02:48:30,880
but manipulated

11526
02:48:30,880 --> 02:48:31,600
content will

11527
02:48:31,600 --> 02:48:32,580
always be

11528
02:48:32,580 --> 02:48:34,340
an insignificant

11529
02:48:34,340 --> 02:48:35,420
quantity

11530
02:48:35,420 --> 02:48:36,640
of material

11531
02:48:36,640 --> 02:48:37,480
and the

11532
02:48:37,480 --> 02:48:38,240
reason is

11533
02:48:38,240 --> 02:48:39,420
it takes

11534
02:48:39,420 --> 02:48:39,940
economic

11535
02:48:39,940 --> 02:48:40,420
work

11536
02:48:40,420 --> 02:48:41,360
to manipulate

11537
02:48:41,360 --> 02:48:41,820
content

11538
02:48:41,820 --> 02:48:42,300
to do it

11539
02:48:42,300 --> 02:48:42,680
well you

11540
02:48:42,680 --> 02:48:43,540
need someone

11541
02:48:43,540 --> 02:48:44,020
who's even

11542
02:48:44,020 --> 02:48:44,680
more intelligent

11543
02:48:44,680 --> 02:48:45,120
the person

11544
02:48:45,120 --> 02:48:45,320
who would

11545
02:48:45,320 --> 02:48:45,560
have created

11546
02:48:45,560 --> 02:48:45,920
the original

11547
02:48:45,920 --> 02:48:46,320
document

11548
02:48:46,320 --> 02:48:47,340
even more

11549
02:48:47,340 --> 02:48:47,760
informed

11550
02:48:47,760 --> 02:48:49,820
and if the

11551
02:48:49,820 --> 02:48:50,400
whole document

11552
02:48:50,400 --> 02:48:50,820
is going

11553
02:48:50,820 --> 02:48:51,320
public

11554
02:48:51,320 --> 02:48:51,940
this is not

11555
02:48:51,940 --> 02:48:52,460
like a news

11556
02:48:52,460 --> 02:48:52,960
story where

11557
02:48:52,960 --> 02:48:53,240
he gives

11558
02:48:53,240 --> 02:48:53,720
the journalist

11559
02:48:53,720 --> 02:48:54,220
manipulated

11560
02:48:54,220 --> 02:48:54,620
content

11561
02:48:54,620 --> 02:48:55,200
you have

11562
02:48:55,200 --> 02:48:56,160
to fool

11563
02:48:56,160 --> 02:48:58,060
all the

11564
02:48:58,060 --> 02:48:58,460
opponents

11565
02:48:58,460 --> 02:48:58,780
and everyone

11566
02:48:58,780 --> 02:48:59,200
else in the

11567
02:48:59,200 --> 02:48:59,560
world with

11568
02:48:59,560 --> 02:48:59,940
the materials

11569
02:48:59,940 --> 02:49:00,580
a lot harder

11570
02:49:00,580 --> 02:49:05,480
and at the

11571
02:49:05,480 --> 02:49:06,000
same time

11572
02:49:06,000 --> 02:49:07,080
every organization

11573
02:49:07,080 --> 02:49:07,900
generates a

11574
02:49:07,900 --> 02:49:08,380
mountain of

11575
02:49:08,380 --> 02:49:08,820
paperwork

11576
02:49:08,820 --> 02:49:09,980
and internal

11577
02:49:09,980 --> 02:49:10,580
records

11578
02:49:10,580 --> 02:49:11,940
just by virtue

11579
02:49:11,940 --> 02:49:12,240
of its

11580
02:49:12,240 --> 02:49:12,660
activities

11581
02:49:12,660 --> 02:49:13,700
so all those

11582
02:49:13,700 --> 02:49:14,100
records are

11583
02:49:14,100 --> 02:49:14,700
produced for

11584
02:49:14,700 --> 02:49:15,040
free

11585
02:49:15,040 --> 02:49:18,520
so the

11586
02:49:18,520 --> 02:49:19,280
legitimate

11587
02:49:19,280 --> 02:49:19,760
content will

11588
02:49:19,760 --> 02:49:20,520
always outweigh

11589
02:49:20,520 --> 02:49:21,080
the manipulated

11590
02:49:21,080 --> 02:49:21,440
content

11591
02:49:21,440 --> 02:49:22,520
the problem

11592
02:49:22,520 --> 02:49:23,040
is that

11593
02:49:23,040 --> 02:49:24,120
a small bit

11594
02:49:24,120 --> 02:49:24,580
of manipulated

11595
02:49:24,580 --> 02:49:25,320
content can

11596
02:49:25,320 --> 02:49:25,980
devalue

11597
02:49:25,980 --> 02:49:27,260
the large

11598
02:49:27,260 --> 02:49:28,240
amount of

11599
02:49:28,240 --> 02:49:29,160
un-manipulated

11600
02:49:29,160 --> 02:49:29,460
content

11601
02:49:29,460 --> 02:49:29,660
and I

11602
02:49:29,660 --> 02:49:30,380
disagree with

11603
02:49:30,380 --> 02:49:30,900
you on

11604
02:49:30,900 --> 02:49:31,900
one point

11605
02:49:31,900 --> 02:49:33,440
I fundamentally

11606
02:49:33,440 --> 02:49:34,380
believe that

11607
02:49:34,380 --> 02:49:35,180
disinformation

11608
02:49:35,180 --> 02:49:37,780
becomes so

11609
02:49:37,780 --> 02:49:38,240
easy to

11610
02:49:38,240 --> 02:49:38,700
generate

11611
02:49:38,700 --> 02:49:40,800
and because

11612
02:49:40,800 --> 02:49:41,500
of it

11613
02:49:41,500 --> 02:49:42,320
because complexity

11614
02:49:42,320 --> 02:49:43,180
overwhelms

11615
02:49:43,180 --> 02:49:43,960
knowledge

11616
02:49:43,960 --> 02:49:45,620
that it's

11617
02:49:45,620 --> 02:49:46,240
in the

11618
02:49:46,240 --> 02:49:47,160
people's

11619
02:49:47,160 --> 02:49:48,180
interest

11620
02:49:48,180 --> 02:49:48,680
if you will

11621
02:49:48,680 --> 02:49:48,980
over the

11622
02:49:48,980 --> 02:49:49,480
next decade

11623
02:49:49,480 --> 02:49:50,200
to build

11624
02:49:50,200 --> 02:49:50,980
disinformation

11625
02:49:50,980 --> 02:49:51,620
generating

11626
02:49:51,620 --> 02:49:52,160
systems

11627
02:49:52,160 --> 02:49:53,080
that it

11628
02:49:53,080 --> 02:49:53,340
should be

11629
02:49:53,340 --> 02:49:53,660
true for

11630
02:49:53,660 --> 02:49:54,240
corporations

11631
02:49:54,240 --> 02:49:55,220
for marketing

11632
02:49:55,220 --> 02:49:55,960
for government

11633
02:49:55,980 --> 02:49:56,860
and so forth

11634
02:49:56,860 --> 02:49:57,720
and it

11635
02:49:57,720 --> 02:49:58,620
just makes

11636
02:49:58,620 --> 02:49:58,980
the job

11637
02:49:58,980 --> 02:49:59,420
for a

11638
02:49:59,420 --> 02:49:59,680
legitimate

11639
02:49:59,680 --> 02:50:00,160
journalist

11640
02:50:00,160 --> 02:50:00,540
that much

11641
02:50:00,540 --> 02:50:00,800
harder

11642
02:50:00,800 --> 02:50:04,960
and your

11643
02:50:04,960 --> 02:50:05,740
answer earlier

11644
02:50:05,740 --> 02:50:06,320
was that this

11645
02:50:06,320 --> 02:50:07,100
is a trust

11646
02:50:07,100 --> 02:50:07,520
problem

11647
02:50:07,520 --> 02:50:10,080
which I think

11648
02:50:10,080 --> 02:50:10,400
is roughly

11649
02:50:10,400 --> 02:50:10,800
correct

11650
02:50:10,800 --> 02:50:11,480
I would argue

11651
02:50:11,480 --> 02:50:12,040
that it's

11652
02:50:12,040 --> 02:50:12,760
a ranking

11653
02:50:12,760 --> 02:50:13,200
problem

11654
02:50:13,200 --> 02:50:14,080
but ranking

11655
02:50:14,080 --> 02:50:14,420
is based

11656
02:50:14,420 --> 02:50:14,860
on trust

11657
02:50:14,860 --> 02:50:15,160
and other

11658
02:50:15,160 --> 02:50:15,580
algorithms

11659
02:50:15,580 --> 02:50:15,920
it's the

11660
02:50:15,920 --> 02:50:16,060
same

11661
02:50:16,060 --> 02:50:16,560
conclusion

11662
02:50:16,560 --> 02:50:17,560
but I

11663
02:50:17,560 --> 02:50:18,040
think it's

11664
02:50:18,040 --> 02:50:19,140
not in my

11665
02:50:19,140 --> 02:50:19,620
view correct

11666
02:50:19,620 --> 02:50:20,020
to say

11667
02:50:20,020 --> 02:50:21,020
that there

11668
02:50:21,020 --> 02:50:21,560
will always

11669
02:50:21,560 --> 02:50:22,200
be more

11670
02:50:22,200 --> 02:50:23,580
sort of

11671
02:50:23,580 --> 02:50:24,540
tactically

11672
02:50:24,540 --> 02:50:24,980
correct

11673
02:50:24,980 --> 02:50:25,220
information

11674
02:50:25,220 --> 02:50:26,180
than a

11675
02:50:26,180 --> 02:50:26,560
small amount

11676
02:50:26,560 --> 02:50:26,660
of

11677
02:50:26,660 --> 02:50:27,120
manipulated

11678
02:50:27,120 --> 02:50:28,020
perfectly

11679
02:50:28,020 --> 02:50:28,460
reasonable

11680
02:50:28,460 --> 02:50:28,860
that the

11681
02:50:28,860 --> 02:50:29,240
actors

11682
02:50:29,240 --> 02:50:29,880
will see

11683
02:50:29,880 --> 02:50:30,700
that

11684
02:50:30,700 --> 02:50:31,200
computer

11685
02:50:31,200 --> 02:50:31,980
AI

11686
02:50:31,980 --> 02:50:32,460
systems

11687
02:50:32,460 --> 02:50:32,660
can

11688
02:50:32,660 --> 02:50:32,980
generate

11689
02:50:32,980 --> 02:50:33,320
a lot

11690
02:50:33,320 --> 02:50:33,480
of

11691
02:50:33,480 --> 02:50:33,700
false

11692
02:50:33,700 --> 02:50:34,080
stuff

11693
02:50:34,080 --> 02:50:37,520
you're well

11694
02:50:37,520 --> 02:50:37,740
aware

11695
02:50:37,740 --> 02:50:38,260
of the

11696
02:50:38,260 --> 02:50:38,560
document

11697
02:50:38,560 --> 02:50:39,180
projects

11698
02:50:39,180 --> 02:50:39,900
to write

11699
02:50:39,900 --> 02:50:40,320
papers

11700
02:50:40,320 --> 02:50:40,500
by

11701
02:50:40,500 --> 02:50:40,700
yeah

11702
02:50:40,700 --> 02:50:40,720
yeah

11703
02:50:40,720 --> 02:50:40,880
I've

11704
02:50:40,880 --> 02:50:41,120
seen

11705
02:50:41,120 --> 02:50:43,280
everyone

11706
02:50:43,280 --> 02:50:43,700
always

11707
02:50:43,700 --> 02:50:43,960
thought

11708
02:50:43,960 --> 02:50:44,180
that we

11709
02:50:44,180 --> 02:50:44,400
would get

11710
02:50:44,400 --> 02:50:44,660
flooded

11711
02:50:44,660 --> 02:50:44,860
with

11712
02:50:44,860 --> 02:50:45,040
those

11713
02:50:45,040 --> 02:50:45,340
it never

11714
02:50:45,340 --> 02:50:45,600
happened

11715
02:50:45,600 --> 02:50:45,820
you've

11716
02:50:45,820 --> 02:50:45,980
not

11717
02:50:45,980 --> 02:50:46,320
but do you

11718
02:50:46,320 --> 02:50:46,520
think

11719
02:50:46,520 --> 02:50:48,220
we have

11720
02:50:48,220 --> 02:50:48,520
had

11721
02:50:48,520 --> 02:50:49,020
literally

11722
02:50:49,020 --> 02:50:51,000
if you

11723
02:50:51,000 --> 02:50:51,460
include

11724
02:50:51,460 --> 02:50:52,700
if you exclude

11725
02:50:52,700 --> 02:50:53,360
the nutters

11726
02:50:53,360 --> 02:50:54,700
going on about

11727
02:50:54,700 --> 02:50:55,100
how

11728
02:50:55,100 --> 02:50:56,540
over a garden

11729
02:50:56,540 --> 02:50:56,940
party

11730
02:50:56,940 --> 02:50:57,740
one night

11731
02:50:57,740 --> 02:50:58,280
twelve years

11732
02:50:58,280 --> 02:50:58,600
ago

11733
02:50:58,600 --> 02:50:59,540
speaking

11734
02:50:59,540 --> 02:51:01,000
to his

11735
02:51:01,000 --> 02:51:01,540
ex-wife

11736
02:51:01,540 --> 02:51:02,520
with a plot

11737
02:51:02,520 --> 02:51:02,920
plant in

11738
02:51:02,920 --> 02:51:03,440
between them

11739
02:51:03,440 --> 02:51:05,200
she told

11740
02:51:05,200 --> 02:51:05,420
him

11741
02:51:05,420 --> 02:51:05,760
that he

11742
02:51:05,760 --> 02:51:06,000
was

11743
02:51:06,000 --> 02:51:06,140
the

11744
02:51:06,140 --> 02:51:06,700
antichrist

11745
02:51:06,700 --> 02:51:07,060
and he

11746
02:51:07,060 --> 02:51:07,400
understood

11747
02:51:07,400 --> 02:51:08,180
it was

11748
02:51:08,180 --> 02:51:08,480
true

11749
02:51:08,480 --> 02:51:10,180
if you

11750
02:51:10,180 --> 02:51:10,860
exclude

11751
02:51:10,860 --> 02:51:11,180
those

11752
02:51:11,180 --> 02:51:11,600
cases

11753
02:51:11,600 --> 02:51:12,820
which we

11754
02:51:12,820 --> 02:51:13,040
get a

11755
02:51:13,040 --> 02:51:13,360
fair bit

11756
02:51:13,360 --> 02:51:13,600
of

11757
02:51:13,600 --> 02:51:15,220
the

11758
02:51:15,220 --> 02:51:16,000
genuine

11759
02:51:16,000 --> 02:51:17,860
attempted

11760
02:51:17,860 --> 02:51:18,560
frauds

11761
02:51:18,560 --> 02:51:19,440
there have

11762
02:51:19,440 --> 02:51:19,660
been

11763
02:51:19,660 --> 02:51:19,940
about

11764
02:51:19,940 --> 02:51:20,360
twenty

11765
02:51:20,360 --> 02:51:22,180
it's

11766
02:51:22,180 --> 02:51:22,360
just

11767
02:51:22,360 --> 02:51:22,860
it's

11768
02:51:22,860 --> 02:51:23,500
extraordinary

11769
02:51:23,500 --> 02:51:24,120
it's

11770
02:51:24,120 --> 02:51:24,680
almost

11771
02:51:24,680 --> 02:51:25,160
nothing

11772
02:51:25,160 --> 02:51:25,660
but let's

11773
02:51:25,660 --> 02:51:25,980
argue

11774
02:51:25,980 --> 02:51:27,860
you could

11775
02:51:27,860 --> 02:51:28,280
make an

11776
02:51:28,280 --> 02:51:28,640
argument

11777
02:51:28,640 --> 02:51:29,200
that that's

11778
02:51:29,200 --> 02:51:29,620
a statement

11779
02:51:29,620 --> 02:51:30,200
about

11780
02:51:30,200 --> 02:51:31,400
altruism

11781
02:51:31,400 --> 02:51:31,720
and

11782
02:51:31,720 --> 02:51:32,680
good

11783
02:51:32,680 --> 02:51:33,660
and

11784
02:51:33,660 --> 02:51:33,860
that

11785
02:51:33,860 --> 02:51:34,260
the

11786
02:51:34,260 --> 02:51:34,580
steps

11787
02:51:34,580 --> 02:51:35,020
required

11788
02:51:35,020 --> 02:51:35,240
to

11789
02:51:35,240 --> 02:51:35,600
actually

11790
02:51:35,600 --> 02:51:36,320
manipulate

11791
02:51:36,320 --> 02:51:37,940
are

11792
02:51:37,940 --> 02:51:38,320
hard

11793
02:51:38,320 --> 02:51:38,720
enough

11794
02:51:38,720 --> 02:51:39,140
that

11795
02:51:39,140 --> 02:51:39,380
you

11796
02:51:39,380 --> 02:51:39,560
have

11797
02:51:39,560 --> 02:51:39,660
to

11798
02:51:39,660 --> 02:51:39,820
be

11799
02:51:39,820 --> 02:51:40,320
pretty

11800
02:51:40,320 --> 02:51:41,380
badly

11801
02:51:41,380 --> 02:51:42,200
intended

11802
02:51:42,200 --> 02:51:43,100
you have

11803
02:51:43,100 --> 02:51:43,180
to

11804
02:51:43,180 --> 02:51:43,380
the

11805
02:51:43,380 --> 02:51:44,040
threshold

11806
02:51:44,040 --> 02:51:44,380
for

11807
02:51:44,380 --> 02:51:44,660
doing

11808
02:51:44,660 --> 02:51:44,900
that's

11809
02:51:44,900 --> 02:51:45,140
pretty

11810
02:51:45,140 --> 02:51:45,620
high

11811
02:51:45,620 --> 02:51:46,780
right

11812
02:51:46,780 --> 02:51:47,100
in other

11813
02:51:47,100 --> 02:51:47,360
words

11814
02:51:47,360 --> 02:51:47,940
what's

11815
02:51:47,940 --> 02:51:48,040
the

11816
02:51:48,040 --> 02:51:48,340
closest

11817
02:51:48,340 --> 02:51:48,980
it's

11818
02:51:48,980 --> 02:51:49,120
the

11819
02:51:49,120 --> 02:51:49,360
pump

11820
02:51:49,360 --> 02:51:49,760
and dump

11821
02:51:49,760 --> 02:51:50,220
scams

11822
02:51:50,220 --> 02:51:50,800
and stocks

11823
02:51:50,800 --> 02:51:51,240
I guess

11824
02:51:51,240 --> 02:51:51,540
that's

11825
02:51:51,540 --> 02:51:52,040
the

11826
02:51:52,040 --> 02:51:52,640
one

11827
02:51:52,640 --> 02:51:52,900
that we

11828
02:51:52,900 --> 02:51:53,280
see

11829
02:51:53,280 --> 02:51:55,400
fairly

11830
02:51:55,400 --> 02:51:55,900
frequently

11831
02:51:55,900 --> 02:51:57,540
and

11832
02:51:57,540 --> 02:51:57,720
where

11833
02:51:57,720 --> 02:51:58,020
they've

11834
02:51:58,020 --> 02:51:58,240
pushed

11835
02:51:58,240 --> 02:51:58,580
the

11836
02:51:58,580 --> 02:51:59,800
push

11837
02:51:59,800 --> 02:52:00,100
things

11838
02:52:00,100 --> 02:52:00,340
they've

11839
02:52:00,340 --> 02:52:00,480
done

11840
02:52:00,480 --> 02:52:00,600
it

11841
02:52:00,600 --> 02:52:00,720
as

11842
02:52:00,720 --> 02:52:01,000
gifts

11843
02:52:01,000 --> 02:52:01,240
and

11844
02:52:01,240 --> 02:52:01,880
they

11845
02:52:01,880 --> 02:52:02,440
even

11846
02:52:02,440 --> 02:52:02,660
have

11847
02:52:02,660 --> 02:52:02,900
things

11848
02:52:02,900 --> 02:52:03,320
surveyed

11849
02:52:03,320 --> 02:52:03,740
OCR

11850
02:52:03,740 --> 02:52:04,480
recognition

11851
02:52:04,480 --> 02:52:04,980
on emails

11852
02:52:04,980 --> 02:52:05,780
in

11853
02:52:05,780 --> 02:52:06,180
Google's

11854
02:52:06,180 --> 02:52:06,300
case

11855
02:52:06,300 --> 02:52:06,460
we

11856
02:52:06,460 --> 02:52:06,700
see

11857
02:52:06,700 --> 02:52:07,080
lots

11858
02:52:07,080 --> 02:52:07,200
and

11859
02:52:07,200 --> 02:52:07,320
lots

11860
02:52:07,320 --> 02:52:07,460
of

11861
02:52:07,460 --> 02:52:07,640
link

11862
02:52:07,640 --> 02:52:07,980
forms

11863
02:52:07,980 --> 02:52:08,740
which

11864
02:52:08,740 --> 02:52:08,840
are

11865
02:52:08,840 --> 02:52:09,160
attempting

11866
02:52:09,160 --> 02:52:09,360
to

11867
02:52:09,360 --> 02:52:09,660
manipulate

11868
02:52:09,660 --> 02:52:10,060
our

11869
02:52:10,060 --> 02:52:11,000
rankings

11870
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:14,600
and

11871
02:52:14,600 --> 02:52:15,780
what we

11872
02:52:15,780 --> 02:52:16,080
see

11873
02:52:16,080 --> 02:52:16,380
now

11874
02:52:16,380 --> 02:52:16,620
we're

11875
02:52:16,620 --> 02:52:16,980
seeing

11876
02:52:16,980 --> 02:52:18,280
HB

11877
02:52:18,280 --> 02:52:18,660
Gary

11878
02:52:18,660 --> 02:52:19,140
this

11879
02:52:19,140 --> 02:52:22,220
intelligence

11880
02:52:22,220 --> 02:52:22,880
contractor

11881
02:52:22,880 --> 02:52:23,700
high-tech

11882
02:52:23,700 --> 02:52:24,120
intelligence

11883
02:52:24,120 --> 02:52:24,540
contractor

11884
02:52:24,540 --> 02:52:25,200
was hired

11885
02:52:25,200 --> 02:52:25,700
by

11886
02:52:25,700 --> 02:52:27,880
was asked

11887
02:52:27,880 --> 02:52:28,340
by

11888
02:52:28,340 --> 02:52:29,220
Bank of

11889
02:52:29,220 --> 02:52:29,540
America

11890
02:52:29,540 --> 02:52:30,140
to submit

11891
02:52:30,140 --> 02:52:30,560
a tender

11892
02:52:30,560 --> 02:52:32,380
and we

11893
02:52:32,380 --> 02:52:32,780
got hold

11894
02:52:32,780 --> 02:52:33,160
of their

11895
02:52:33,160 --> 02:52:33,700
copy of

11896
02:52:33,700 --> 02:52:34,020
the tender

11897
02:52:34,020 --> 02:52:34,340
we don't

11898
02:52:34,340 --> 02:52:34,620
know who

11899
02:52:34,620 --> 02:52:35,040
ended up

11900
02:52:35,040 --> 02:52:35,440
taking the

11901
02:52:35,440 --> 02:52:35,640
tender

11902
02:52:35,640 --> 02:52:37,760
to take

11903
02:52:37,760 --> 02:52:38,320
us down

11904
02:52:38,320 --> 02:52:42,140
and the

11905
02:52:42,140 --> 02:52:42,600
quote was

11906
02:52:42,600 --> 02:52:43,540
two million

11907
02:52:43,540 --> 02:52:44,500
a month

11908
02:52:44,500 --> 02:52:46,060
and they

11909
02:52:46,060 --> 02:52:46,420
would spread

11910
02:52:46,420 --> 02:52:46,960
disinformation

11911
02:52:46,960 --> 02:52:47,640
and they

11912
02:52:47,640 --> 02:52:48,120
would hack

11913
02:52:48,120 --> 02:52:48,620
this and

11914
02:52:48,620 --> 02:52:48,900
they would

11915
02:52:48,900 --> 02:52:49,580
target our

11916
02:52:49,580 --> 02:52:50,260
journalists and

11917
02:52:50,260 --> 02:52:50,500
they had

11918
02:52:50,500 --> 02:52:51,200
network maps

11919
02:52:51,200 --> 02:52:51,780
of people who

11920
02:52:51,780 --> 02:52:52,360
supported us

11921
02:52:52,360 --> 02:52:53,220
and they

11922
02:52:53,220 --> 02:52:53,900
would leverage

11923
02:52:53,900 --> 02:52:54,480
their careers

11924
02:52:54,480 --> 02:52:55,320
and self-interests

11925
02:52:55,320 --> 02:52:55,920
versus their

11926
02:52:55,920 --> 02:52:56,340
ideology

11927
02:52:56,340 --> 02:52:56,720
etc

11928
02:52:56,720 --> 02:53:00,460
so that's

11929
02:53:00,460 --> 02:53:00,640
there

11930
02:53:00,640 --> 02:53:01,060
but I mean

11931
02:53:01,060 --> 02:53:03,000
disinformation

11932
02:53:03,000 --> 02:53:03,740
has always

11933
02:53:03,740 --> 02:53:04,600
always been

11934
02:53:04,600 --> 02:53:04,920
there

11935
02:53:04,920 --> 02:53:06,600
I'm not

11936
02:53:06,600 --> 02:53:07,440
sure why

11937
02:53:07,440 --> 02:53:08,340
why

11938
02:53:08,340 --> 02:53:09,460
it should

11939
02:53:09,460 --> 02:53:10,220
increase

11940
02:53:10,220 --> 02:53:11,480
relative

11941
02:53:11,480 --> 02:53:12,160
to

11942
02:53:12,160 --> 02:53:13,140
relative to

11943
02:53:13,140 --> 02:53:13,760
the information

11944
02:53:13,760 --> 02:53:14,420
increase we're

11945
02:53:14,420 --> 02:53:14,920
seeing everywhere

11946
02:53:14,920 --> 02:53:15,280
else

11947
02:53:15,280 --> 02:53:16,200
this by the

11948
02:53:16,200 --> 02:53:16,500
way is

11949
02:53:16,500 --> 02:53:17,480
an actual

11950
02:53:17,480 --> 02:53:17,980
this is a

11951
02:53:17,980 --> 02:53:18,200
fundamental

11952
02:53:18,200 --> 02:53:18,920
argument against

11953
02:53:18,920 --> 02:53:19,360
something you

11954
02:53:19,360 --> 02:53:19,740
and I talked

11955
02:53:19,740 --> 02:53:20,200
about earlier

11956
02:53:20,200 --> 02:53:21,080
we do actually

11957
02:53:21,080 --> 02:53:21,620
need to resolve

11958
02:53:21,620 --> 02:53:21,980
this

11959
02:53:21,980 --> 02:53:23,280
does

11960
02:53:23,280 --> 02:53:23,600
does

11961
02:53:23,600 --> 02:53:24,580
the rate

11962
02:53:24,580 --> 02:53:25,200
of disinformation

11963
02:53:25,200 --> 02:53:27,400
but I think

11964
02:53:27,400 --> 02:53:27,840
there's more

11965
02:53:27,840 --> 02:53:29,020
this is actually

11966
02:53:29,020 --> 02:53:29,480
one of the most

11967
02:53:29,480 --> 02:53:29,940
interesting

11968
02:53:29,940 --> 02:53:30,700
the whole

11969
02:53:30,700 --> 02:53:31,220
conversation

11970
02:53:31,220 --> 02:53:31,460
has been

11971
02:53:31,460 --> 02:53:31,820
fascinating

11972
02:53:31,820 --> 02:53:32,160
but this

11973
02:53:32,160 --> 02:53:32,820
last piece

11974
02:53:32,820 --> 02:53:33,180
is really

11975
02:53:33,180 --> 02:53:33,440
interesting

11976
02:53:33,440 --> 02:53:33,700
because it

11977
02:53:33,700 --> 02:53:34,200
plays into

11978
02:53:34,200 --> 02:53:35,100
how Eric

11979
02:53:35,100 --> 02:53:35,340
and I

11980
02:53:35,340 --> 02:53:35,900
are thinking

11981
02:53:35,900 --> 02:53:36,280
about

11982
02:53:36,280 --> 02:53:38,060
these chapters

11983
02:53:38,060 --> 02:53:39,480
imagine 10

11984
02:53:39,480 --> 02:53:40,080
years from now

11985
02:53:40,080 --> 02:53:40,840
or imagine 15

11986
02:53:40,840 --> 02:53:41,020
years

11987
02:53:41,020 --> 02:53:42,140
so for the

11988
02:53:42,140 --> 02:53:42,840
purposes of

11989
02:53:42,840 --> 02:53:44,220
argument

11990
02:53:44,220 --> 02:53:45,100
let's imagine

11991
02:53:45,100 --> 02:53:46,080
10 years from

11992
02:53:46,080 --> 02:53:46,300
now

11993
02:53:46,300 --> 02:53:47,180
it's very easy

11994
02:53:47,180 --> 02:53:47,940
not just for

11995
02:53:47,940 --> 02:53:48,640
a large group

11996
02:53:48,640 --> 02:53:49,040
of people

11997
02:53:49,040 --> 02:53:51,280
to sort of

11998
02:53:51,280 --> 02:53:52,120
create fake

11999
02:53:52,120 --> 02:53:52,680
documents

12000
02:53:52,680 --> 02:53:53,240
produce them

12001
02:53:53,240 --> 02:53:53,740
in mass

12002
02:53:53,740 --> 02:53:54,200
and distribute

12003
02:53:54,200 --> 02:53:55,060
them in mass

12004
02:53:55,060 --> 02:53:55,460
let's assume

12005
02:53:55,460 --> 02:53:55,840
a single

12006
02:53:55,840 --> 02:53:56,340
individual

12007
02:53:56,340 --> 02:53:57,220
has that

12008
02:53:57,220 --> 02:53:57,680
capacity

12009
02:53:57,680 --> 02:53:58,200
through

12010
02:53:58,200 --> 02:53:59,180
the

12011
02:53:59,180 --> 02:53:59,980
technological

12012
02:53:59,980 --> 02:54:00,580
platforms

12013
02:54:00,580 --> 02:54:00,860
they have

12014
02:54:00,860 --> 02:54:01,500
you won't

12015
02:54:01,500 --> 02:54:02,180
have Julian

12016
02:54:02,180 --> 02:54:02,540
Assange

12017
02:54:02,540 --> 02:54:03,020
saying

12018
02:54:03,020 --> 02:54:03,740
it's true

12019
02:54:03,740 --> 02:54:05,040
so

12020
02:54:05,040 --> 02:54:06,840
assume

12021
02:54:06,840 --> 02:54:07,040
that

12022
02:54:07,040 --> 02:54:07,280
they

12023
02:54:07,280 --> 02:54:08,640
he's

12024
02:54:08,640 --> 02:54:08,820
making

12025
02:54:08,820 --> 02:54:09,040
a more

12026
02:54:09,040 --> 02:54:09,260
fundamental

12027
02:54:09,260 --> 02:54:09,540
argument

12028
02:54:09,540 --> 02:54:10,060
he's

12029
02:54:10,060 --> 02:54:10,260
saying

12030
02:54:10,260 --> 02:54:10,480
that

12031
02:54:10,480 --> 02:54:11,340
humankind

12032
02:54:11,340 --> 02:54:12,440
does not

12033
02:54:12,440 --> 02:54:12,800
organize

12034
02:54:12,800 --> 02:54:13,120
itself

12035
02:54:13,120 --> 02:54:13,440
that way

12036
02:54:13,440 --> 02:54:13,980
there's

12037
02:54:13,980 --> 02:54:14,600
enough

12038
02:54:14,600 --> 02:54:15,180
barriers

12039
02:54:15,180 --> 02:54:15,660
that

12040
02:54:15,660 --> 02:54:17,080
the moral

12041
02:54:17,080 --> 02:54:17,580
choice

12042
02:54:17,580 --> 02:54:18,940
of me

12043
02:54:18,940 --> 02:54:20,040
acting

12044
02:54:20,040 --> 02:54:20,560
to do

12045
02:54:20,560 --> 02:54:20,940
all of

12046
02:54:20,940 --> 02:54:21,240
that

12047
02:54:21,240 --> 02:54:21,760
tends

12048
02:54:21,760 --> 02:54:23,840
to limit

12049
02:54:23,840 --> 02:54:24,260
the amount

12050
02:54:24,260 --> 02:54:24,500
of them

12051
02:54:24,500 --> 02:54:24,700
because

12052
02:54:24,700 --> 02:54:24,980
otherwise

12053
02:54:24,980 --> 02:54:25,260
they would

12054
02:54:25,260 --> 02:54:25,620
have already

12055
02:54:25,620 --> 02:54:26,060
been a lot

12056
02:54:26,060 --> 02:54:26,360
of them

12057
02:54:26,360 --> 02:54:26,900
so let's

12058
02:54:26,900 --> 02:54:27,260
assume a

12059
02:54:27,260 --> 02:54:27,520
government

12060
02:54:27,520 --> 02:54:27,860
then

12061
02:54:27,860 --> 02:54:28,540
which would

12062
02:54:28,540 --> 02:54:28,860
have the

12063
02:54:28,860 --> 02:54:29,980
motivation

12064
02:54:29,980 --> 02:54:30,660
to potentially

12065
02:54:30,660 --> 02:54:31,600
do all that

12066
02:54:31,600 --> 02:54:31,920
now

12067
02:54:31,920 --> 02:54:32,460
I mean

12068
02:54:32,460 --> 02:54:34,300
the strategic

12069
02:54:34,300 --> 02:54:35,640
communications

12070
02:54:35,640 --> 02:54:37,620
propaganda arm

12071
02:54:37,620 --> 02:54:38,460
of the

12072
02:54:38,460 --> 02:54:39,560
Pentagon

12073
02:54:39,560 --> 02:54:40,220
costs something

12074
02:54:40,220 --> 02:54:40,900
like six billion

12075
02:54:40,900 --> 02:54:41,580
dollars a year

12076
02:54:41,580 --> 02:54:42,740
but has anyone

12077
02:54:42,740 --> 02:54:43,280
done it through

12078
02:54:43,280 --> 02:54:43,640
you

12079
02:54:43,640 --> 02:54:44,800
in other words

12080
02:54:44,800 --> 02:54:45,720
government

12081
02:54:45,720 --> 02:54:46,920
versus government

12082
02:54:46,920 --> 02:54:48,200
using WikiLeaks

12083
02:54:48,200 --> 02:54:48,640
we don't

12084
02:54:48,640 --> 02:54:49,020
care if

12085
02:54:49,020 --> 02:54:49,580
it's true

12086
02:54:49,580 --> 02:54:49,980
as a

12087
02:54:49,980 --> 02:54:50,340
laundry

12088
02:54:50,340 --> 02:54:51,460
if it's

12089
02:54:51,460 --> 02:54:51,660
true

12090
02:54:51,660 --> 02:54:52,140
information

12091
02:54:52,140 --> 02:54:52,540
we don't

12092
02:54:52,540 --> 02:54:52,800
care

12093
02:54:52,800 --> 02:54:53,520
where it

12094
02:54:53,520 --> 02:54:54,600
comes from

12095
02:54:54,600 --> 02:54:56,260
let people

12096
02:54:56,260 --> 02:54:56,720
fight with

12097
02:54:56,720 --> 02:54:57,060
the truth

12098
02:54:57,060 --> 02:54:57,340
and when

12099
02:54:57,340 --> 02:54:57,580
all the

12100
02:54:57,580 --> 02:54:58,060
bodies

12101
02:54:58,060 --> 02:54:58,600
are cleared

12102
02:54:58,600 --> 02:54:58,900
they'll

12103
02:54:58,900 --> 02:54:59,140
be

12104
02:54:59,140 --> 02:55:00,380
full of

12105
02:55:00,380 --> 02:55:00,720
the truth

12106
02:55:00,720 --> 02:55:00,980
everyone

12107
02:55:00,980 --> 02:55:02,040
that does

12108
02:55:02,040 --> 02:55:02,380
take your

12109
02:55:02,380 --> 02:55:02,800
editorial

12110
02:55:02,800 --> 02:55:03,540
capacity

12111
02:55:03,540 --> 02:55:04,080
just back

12112
02:55:04,080 --> 02:55:04,220
to

12113
02:55:04,220 --> 02:55:04,820
verification

12114
02:55:04,820 --> 02:55:05,240
right

12115
02:55:05,240 --> 02:55:05,540
because it's

12116
02:55:05,540 --> 02:55:05,760
different

12117
02:55:05,760 --> 02:55:06,120
than just

12118
02:55:06,120 --> 02:55:06,280
saying

12119
02:55:06,280 --> 02:55:07,880
it's still

12120
02:55:07,880 --> 02:55:08,240
a slippery

12121
02:55:08,240 --> 02:55:08,620
snog

12122
02:55:08,620 --> 02:55:09,860
no I think

12123
02:55:09,860 --> 02:55:10,100
it's not

12124
02:55:10,100 --> 02:55:10,300
at all

12125
02:55:10,300 --> 02:55:10,540
I think

12126
02:55:10,540 --> 02:55:10,720
it's

12127
02:55:10,720 --> 02:55:11,360
the whole

12128
02:55:11,360 --> 02:55:11,780
intent

12129
02:55:11,780 --> 02:55:12,580
let people

12130
02:55:12,580 --> 02:55:12,900
fight

12131
02:55:12,900 --> 02:55:13,520
with the truth

12132
02:55:13,520 --> 02:55:14,480
I mean

12133
02:55:14,480 --> 02:55:15,380
but they

12134
02:55:15,380 --> 02:55:15,740
have to

12135
02:55:15,740 --> 02:55:16,500
the argument

12136
02:55:16,500 --> 02:55:16,760
is they

12137
02:55:16,760 --> 02:55:17,080
have to

12138
02:55:17,080 --> 02:55:17,340
there's

12139
02:55:17,340 --> 02:55:17,580
there's

12140
02:55:17,580 --> 02:55:18,060
there has

12141
02:55:18,060 --> 02:55:18,220
to be

12142
02:55:18,220 --> 02:55:18,560
a choice

12143
02:55:18,560 --> 02:55:18,900
algorithm

12144
02:55:18,900 --> 02:55:19,580
you have

12145
02:55:19,580 --> 02:55:19,740
to have

12146
02:55:19,740 --> 02:55:20,240
some way

12147
02:55:20,240 --> 02:55:20,600
of knowing

12148
02:55:20,600 --> 02:55:21,120
that you're

12149
02:55:21,120 --> 02:55:21,480
dealing with

12150
02:55:21,480 --> 02:55:21,880
a legitimate

12151
02:55:21,880 --> 02:55:22,440
source

12152
02:55:22,440 --> 02:55:23,380
right

12153
02:55:23,380 --> 02:55:23,860
no I

12154
02:55:23,860 --> 02:55:24,220
understand

12155
02:55:24,220 --> 02:55:24,460
that

12156
02:55:24,460 --> 02:55:24,860
but that's

12157
02:55:24,860 --> 02:55:25,160
why the

12158
02:55:25,160 --> 02:55:25,520
ecology

12159
02:55:25,520 --> 02:55:28,540
is biased

12160
02:55:28,540 --> 02:55:29,700
against any

12161
02:55:29,700 --> 02:55:30,240
society

12162
02:55:30,240 --> 02:55:30,600
where you

12163
02:55:30,600 --> 02:55:30,920
can't

12164
02:55:30,920 --> 02:55:31,280
verify

12165
02:55:31,280 --> 02:55:32,740
then those

12166
02:55:32,740 --> 02:55:33,200
people are

12167
02:55:33,200 --> 02:55:33,500
left

12168
02:55:33,500 --> 02:55:34,320
on their

12169
02:55:34,320 --> 02:55:34,620
own

12170
02:55:34,620 --> 02:55:35,340
wikileaks

12171
02:55:35,340 --> 02:55:35,840
can't help

12172
02:55:35,840 --> 02:55:36,140
them

12173
02:55:36,140 --> 02:55:36,860
wikileaks

12174
02:55:36,860 --> 02:55:37,360
just says

12175
02:55:37,360 --> 02:55:38,620
when you

12176
02:55:38,620 --> 02:55:39,020
get a good

12177
02:55:39,020 --> 02:55:39,480
verification

12178
02:55:39,480 --> 02:55:40,140
system

12179
02:55:40,140 --> 02:55:40,840
then we're

12180
02:55:40,840 --> 02:55:41,120
good

12181
02:55:41,120 --> 02:55:41,660
otherwise

12182
02:55:41,660 --> 02:55:42,500
good luck

12183
02:55:42,500 --> 02:55:42,800
ball

12184
02:55:42,800 --> 02:55:43,200
whatever

12185
02:55:43,200 --> 02:55:43,900
they're verifying

12186
02:55:43,900 --> 02:55:44,280
documents

12187
02:55:44,280 --> 02:55:44,560
they're not

12188
02:55:44,560 --> 02:55:45,460
facts

12189
02:55:45,460 --> 02:55:46,280
they're verifying

12190
02:55:46,280 --> 02:55:46,720
sources

12191
02:55:46,720 --> 02:55:48,060
we don't

12192
02:55:48,060 --> 02:55:48,660
verify sources

12193
02:55:48,660 --> 02:55:49,400
we verify

12194
02:55:49,400 --> 02:55:50,020
evolution

12195
02:55:50,020 --> 02:55:50,660
that technology

12196
02:55:50,660 --> 02:55:51,420
generates noise

12197
02:55:51,420 --> 02:55:52,160
the documents

12198
02:55:52,160 --> 02:55:52,680
are official

12199
02:55:52,680 --> 02:55:53,080
documents

12200
02:55:53,080 --> 02:55:53,700
they're going

12201
02:55:53,700 --> 02:55:54,100
to be faced

12202
02:55:54,100 --> 02:55:54,740
with more noise

12203
02:55:54,740 --> 02:55:55,300
in the future

12204
02:55:55,300 --> 02:55:55,820
in the question

12205
02:55:55,820 --> 02:55:56,320
you do

12206
02:55:56,320 --> 02:55:57,300
whether human

12207
02:55:57,300 --> 02:55:57,620
beings

12208
02:55:57,620 --> 02:55:58,780
prefer truth

12209
02:55:58,780 --> 02:55:59,300
over fiction

12210
02:55:59,300 --> 02:55:59,960
but whether or not

12211
02:55:59,960 --> 02:56:00,600
they can find

12212
02:56:00,600 --> 02:56:01,040
the truth

12213
02:56:01,040 --> 02:56:01,540
but it's also

12214
02:56:01,540 --> 02:56:02,560
not verifying facts

12215
02:56:02,560 --> 02:56:03,980
so it's not about

12216
02:56:03,980 --> 02:56:05,320
verifying facts

12217
02:56:05,320 --> 02:56:05,820
right

12218
02:56:05,820 --> 02:56:07,520
well that's

12219
02:56:07,520 --> 02:56:09,520
another argument

12220
02:56:09,520 --> 02:56:12,080
we have published

12221
02:56:12,080 --> 02:56:12,760
it's not verifying

12222
02:56:12,760 --> 02:56:13,240
documents

12223
02:56:13,240 --> 02:56:13,800
it's not verifying

12224
02:56:13,800 --> 02:56:14,120
truth

12225
02:56:14,120 --> 02:56:14,480
exact

12226
02:56:14,480 --> 02:56:15,320
we have

12227
02:56:15,320 --> 02:56:16,080
published

12228
02:56:16,080 --> 02:56:18,500
all the

12229
02:56:18,500 --> 02:56:19,480
fake documents

12230
02:56:19,480 --> 02:56:20,020
that we have

12231
02:56:20,020 --> 02:56:20,520
received

12232
02:56:20,520 --> 02:56:21,220
that were

12233
02:56:21,220 --> 02:56:22,380
interesting

12234
02:56:22,380 --> 02:56:24,440
we published

12235
02:56:24,440 --> 02:56:24,860
saying that

12236
02:56:24,860 --> 02:56:25,440
they were fake

12237
02:56:25,440 --> 02:56:26,060
like wiki

12238
02:56:26,060 --> 02:56:26,560
forgeries

12239
02:56:26,560 --> 02:56:28,180
there's not that

12240
02:56:28,180 --> 02:56:28,420
many

12241
02:56:28,420 --> 02:56:29,180
to bother with

12242
02:56:29,180 --> 02:56:30,220
but because

12243
02:56:30,220 --> 02:56:31,660
they actually

12244
02:56:31,660 --> 02:56:32,040
they're not

12245
02:56:32,040 --> 02:56:32,420
fake

12246
02:56:32,420 --> 02:56:33,760
in a meta

12247
02:56:33,760 --> 02:56:34,100
level

12248
02:56:34,100 --> 02:56:35,080
they are

12249
02:56:35,080 --> 02:56:35,840
true forgeries

12250
02:56:35,840 --> 02:56:36,240
right

12251
02:56:36,240 --> 02:56:37,220
so

12252
02:56:37,220 --> 02:56:37,820
they're interesting

12253
02:56:37,820 --> 02:56:41,320
in and of themselves

12254
02:56:41,320 --> 02:56:41,880
and so

12255
02:56:41,880 --> 02:56:42,820
one was

12256
02:56:42,820 --> 02:56:43,880
an attempt to

12257
02:56:43,880 --> 02:56:44,540
influence the

12258
02:56:44,540 --> 02:56:45,220
Kenyan election

12259
02:56:45,220 --> 02:56:45,840
by saying

12260
02:56:45,840 --> 02:56:46,380
that the opposition

12261
02:56:46,380 --> 02:56:47,520
had signed

12262
02:56:47,520 --> 02:56:48,240
a secret agreement

12263
02:56:48,240 --> 02:56:49,020
with the Islamic

12264
02:56:49,020 --> 02:56:49,800
minority

12265
02:56:49,800 --> 02:56:50,960
to do sharia law

12266
02:56:50,960 --> 02:56:51,480
across Kenya

12267
02:56:51,480 --> 02:56:53,380
sounds ridiculous

12268
02:56:53,380 --> 02:56:53,980
but actually

12269
02:56:53,980 --> 02:56:54,380
it was

12270
02:56:54,380 --> 02:56:55,960
carefully

12271
02:56:55,960 --> 02:56:56,600
constructed

12272
02:56:56,600 --> 02:56:57,020
so how do you

12273
02:56:57,020 --> 02:56:57,520
know if there are

12274
02:56:57,520 --> 02:56:57,900
forgeries

12275
02:56:57,900 --> 02:56:59,260
well that one was

12276
02:56:59,260 --> 02:56:59,840
hard because

12277
02:56:59,840 --> 02:57:00,640
that was actually

12278
02:57:00,640 --> 02:57:01,920
that was a

12279
02:57:01,920 --> 02:57:02,700
carefully constructed

12280
02:57:02,700 --> 02:57:03,120
document

12281
02:57:03,120 --> 02:57:03,460
but we

12282
02:57:03,460 --> 02:57:03,980
we checked

12283
02:57:03,980 --> 02:57:04,400
signatures

12284
02:57:04,400 --> 02:57:05,400
and we found

12285
02:57:05,400 --> 02:57:06,020
the real

12286
02:57:06,020 --> 02:57:07,580
that was

12287
02:57:07,580 --> 02:57:08,060
that was hard

12288
02:57:08,060 --> 02:57:08,440
work

12289
02:57:08,440 --> 02:57:09,780
usually it's not

12290
02:57:09,780 --> 02:57:10,280
hard work

12291
02:57:10,280 --> 02:57:10,880
but it requires

12292
02:57:10,880 --> 02:57:11,280
like human

12293
02:57:11,280 --> 02:57:11,980
it requires human

12294
02:57:11,980 --> 02:57:12,740
capital to do

12295
02:57:12,740 --> 02:57:12,940
right

12296
02:57:12,940 --> 02:57:13,580
usually someone

12297
02:57:13,580 --> 02:57:14,020
makes an

12298
02:57:14,020 --> 02:57:14,940
elementary mistake

12299
02:57:14,940 --> 02:57:17,760
and there's also

12300
02:57:17,760 --> 02:57:18,680
incentives for giving

12301
02:57:18,680 --> 02:57:18,980
us

12302
02:57:18,980 --> 02:57:20,100
it's pretty

12303
02:57:20,100 --> 02:57:20,940
disincentivizing

12304
02:57:20,940 --> 02:57:21,440
to send us

12305
02:57:21,440 --> 02:57:21,860
a forgery

12306
02:57:21,860 --> 02:57:24,040
because we're

12307
02:57:24,040 --> 02:57:24,540
perceived

12308
02:57:24,540 --> 02:57:25,320
as being

12309
02:57:25,320 --> 02:57:27,360
quite good

12310
02:57:27,360 --> 02:57:27,820
at detecting

12311
02:57:27,820 --> 02:57:28,100
them

12312
02:57:28,100 --> 02:57:29,600
and we make

12313
02:57:29,600 --> 02:57:30,200
the whole document

12314
02:57:30,200 --> 02:57:30,600
public

12315
02:57:30,600 --> 02:57:31,560
so why wouldn't

12316
02:57:31,560 --> 02:57:31,980
you just give

12317
02:57:31,980 --> 02:57:32,580
it to a newspaper

12318
02:57:32,580 --> 02:57:33,060
they don't make

12319
02:57:33,060 --> 02:57:33,420
the document

12320
02:57:33,420 --> 02:57:33,840
public

12321
02:57:33,840 --> 02:57:34,920
and you're

12322
02:57:34,920 --> 02:57:35,260
dealing with

12323
02:57:35,260 --> 02:57:35,740
people who

12324
02:57:35,740 --> 02:57:36,500
don't have

12325
02:57:36,500 --> 02:57:36,900
expertise

12326
02:57:36,900 --> 02:57:37,600
in that domain

12327
02:57:37,600 --> 02:57:38,120
it's a lot

12328
02:57:38,120 --> 02:57:38,820
easier to

12329
02:57:38,820 --> 02:57:40,100
to

12330
02:57:40,100 --> 02:57:42,480
to overcome

12331
02:57:42,480 --> 02:57:42,920
them

12332
02:57:42,920 --> 02:57:43,720
anyway this

12333
02:57:43,720 --> 02:57:44,220
this bigger

12334
02:57:44,220 --> 02:57:44,760
issue you're

12335
02:57:44,760 --> 02:57:45,380
talking about

12336
02:57:45,380 --> 02:57:45,720
of

12337
02:57:45,720 --> 02:57:48,580
let's say

12338
02:57:48,580 --> 02:57:48,960
you don't

12339
02:57:48,960 --> 02:57:49,300
have

12340
02:57:49,300 --> 02:57:50,320
authenticators

12341
02:57:50,320 --> 02:57:50,980
like us

12342
02:57:50,980 --> 02:57:51,980
the authentication

12343
02:57:51,980 --> 02:57:52,720
is hard

12344
02:57:52,720 --> 02:57:54,100
we can't

12345
02:57:54,100 --> 02:57:54,560
authenticate

12346
02:57:54,560 --> 02:57:54,900
the amount

12347
02:57:54,900 --> 02:57:55,200
of material

12348
02:57:55,200 --> 02:57:55,640
we're getting

12349
02:57:55,640 --> 02:57:55,840
in

12350
02:57:55,840 --> 02:57:57,020
so we've

12351
02:57:57,020 --> 02:57:57,560
thought about

12352
02:57:57,560 --> 02:57:58,240
ways to deal

12353
02:57:58,240 --> 02:57:58,600
with this

12354
02:57:58,600 --> 02:57:59,320
of having

12355
02:57:59,320 --> 02:57:59,440
having a

12356
02:57:59,440 --> 02:58:00,080
great big

12357
02:58:00,080 --> 02:58:01,220
mesh of

12358
02:58:01,220 --> 02:58:01,540
people

12359
02:58:01,540 --> 02:58:02,160
and information

12360
02:58:02,160 --> 02:58:02,800
flowing through

12361
02:58:02,800 --> 02:58:03,120
it and

12362
02:58:03,120 --> 02:58:03,640
different people

12363
02:58:03,640 --> 02:58:04,060
adding their

12364
02:58:04,060 --> 02:58:04,660
authenticators

12365
02:58:04,660 --> 02:58:05,080
to it

12366
02:58:05,080 --> 02:58:06,320
as it flows

12367
02:58:06,320 --> 02:58:06,640
through

12368
02:58:06,640 --> 02:58:07,400
and trying

12369
02:58:07,400 --> 02:58:07,940
to somehow

12370
02:58:07,940 --> 02:58:10,500
to distribute

12371
02:58:10,500 --> 02:58:11,020
and delegate

12372
02:58:11,020 --> 02:58:11,360
that

12373
02:58:11,360 --> 02:58:13,240
and that might

12374
02:58:13,240 --> 02:58:13,800
pan out

12375
02:58:13,800 --> 02:58:15,740
but what if

12376
02:58:15,740 --> 02:58:16,640
everyone was

12377
02:58:16,640 --> 02:58:17,020
simply

12378
02:58:17,020 --> 02:58:18,860
just publishing

12379
02:58:18,860 --> 02:58:19,480
everyone was

12380
02:58:19,480 --> 02:58:19,820
publishing

12381
02:58:19,820 --> 02:58:20,440
anonymously

12382
02:58:20,440 --> 02:58:21,120
and you had

12383
02:58:21,120 --> 02:58:22,000
no authenticators

12384
02:58:22,000 --> 02:58:23,220
what would

12385
02:58:23,220 --> 02:58:23,480
happen

12386
02:58:23,480 --> 02:58:25,260
well

12387
02:58:25,260 --> 02:58:27,640
to begin

12388
02:58:27,640 --> 02:58:27,840
with you

12389
02:58:27,840 --> 02:58:28,100
just have

12390
02:58:28,100 --> 02:58:28,380
a flat

12391
02:58:28,380 --> 02:58:28,780
structure

12392
02:58:28,780 --> 02:58:29,420
right

12393
02:58:29,420 --> 02:58:29,920
a completely

12394
02:58:29,920 --> 02:58:30,180
flat

12395
02:58:30,180 --> 02:58:30,600
structure

12396
02:58:30,600 --> 02:58:31,220
information

12397
02:58:31,220 --> 02:58:31,500
there

12398
02:58:31,500 --> 02:58:32,000
let's say

12399
02:58:32,000 --> 02:58:32,260
it's all

12400
02:58:32,260 --> 02:58:32,740
just addressed

12401
02:58:32,740 --> 02:58:33,480
by hash

12402
02:58:33,480 --> 02:58:34,100
or something

12403
02:58:34,100 --> 02:58:35,240
so you have

12404
02:58:35,240 --> 02:58:35,420
this

12405
02:58:35,420 --> 02:58:36,140
no structure

12406
02:58:36,140 --> 02:58:36,380
at all

12407
02:58:36,380 --> 02:58:36,720
actually

12408
02:58:36,720 --> 02:58:37,320
there's this

12409
02:58:37,320 --> 02:58:37,680
document

12410
02:58:37,680 --> 02:58:38,120
there's that

12411
02:58:38,120 --> 02:58:38,460
document

12412
02:58:38,460 --> 02:58:38,800
there's that

12413
02:58:38,800 --> 02:58:39,140
document

12414
02:58:39,140 --> 02:58:41,360
and so

12415
02:58:41,360 --> 02:58:42,060
then you'll

12416
02:58:42,060 --> 02:58:42,360
have

12417
02:58:42,360 --> 02:58:44,140
people who

12418
02:58:44,140 --> 02:58:44,360
want to

12419
02:58:44,360 --> 02:58:44,780
influence

12420
02:58:44,780 --> 02:58:46,760
making

12421
02:58:46,760 --> 02:58:47,920
robots

12422
02:58:47,920 --> 02:58:48,440
that put

12423
02:58:48,440 --> 02:58:48,660
a whole

12424
02:58:48,660 --> 02:58:48,860
lot of

12425
02:58:48,860 --> 02:58:49,260
garbage

12426
02:58:49,260 --> 02:58:50,180
everywhere

12427
02:58:50,180 --> 02:58:52,300
but it's

12428
02:58:52,300 --> 02:58:52,680
not tied

12429
02:58:52,680 --> 02:58:53,200
into any

12430
02:58:53,200 --> 02:58:53,580
structure

12431
02:58:53,580 --> 02:58:55,720
so actually

12432
02:58:55,720 --> 02:58:57,220
how does

12433
02:58:57,220 --> 02:58:57,760
anyone get

12434
02:58:57,760 --> 02:58:58,280
to anything

12435
02:58:58,280 --> 02:59:01,320
do they

12436
02:59:01,320 --> 02:59:01,900
hear it

12437
02:59:01,900 --> 02:59:02,200
from their

12438
02:59:02,200 --> 02:59:02,500
friends

12439
02:59:02,500 --> 02:59:02,900
and they

12440
02:59:02,900 --> 02:59:03,140
go and

12441
02:59:03,140 --> 02:59:03,460
look at it

12442
02:59:03,460 --> 02:59:03,840
they link

12443
02:59:03,840 --> 02:59:04,120
it into

12444
02:59:04,120 --> 02:59:04,500
their web

12445
02:59:04,500 --> 02:59:04,880
pages

12446
02:59:04,880 --> 02:59:07,640
so there's

12447
02:59:07,640 --> 02:59:08,200
some kind

12448
02:59:08,200 --> 02:59:08,700
of influence

12449
02:59:08,700 --> 02:59:09,120
graph

12450
02:59:09,120 --> 02:59:10,140
that you

12451
02:59:10,140 --> 02:59:10,820
use to

12452
02:59:10,820 --> 02:59:11,120
get the

12453
02:59:11,120 --> 02:59:11,540
information

12454
02:59:11,540 --> 02:59:11,900
so you

12455
02:59:11,900 --> 02:59:12,760
can flood

12456
02:59:12,760 --> 02:59:14,260
the internet

12457
02:59:14,260 --> 02:59:15,280
with information

12458
02:59:15,280 --> 02:59:15,780
that doesn't

12459
02:59:15,780 --> 02:59:16,080
mean you're

12460
02:59:16,080 --> 02:59:16,560
going to flood

12461
02:59:16,560 --> 02:59:17,060
the influence

12462
02:59:17,060 --> 02:59:17,320
graph

12463
02:59:17,320 --> 02:59:17,920
with information

12464
02:59:17,920 --> 02:59:18,240
that's

12465
02:59:18,240 --> 02:59:19,280
the modern

12466
02:59:19,280 --> 02:59:19,660
sort of

12467
02:59:19,660 --> 02:59:19,960
ranking

12468
02:59:19,960 --> 02:59:21,700
the web

12469
02:59:21,700 --> 02:59:22,020
is full

12470
02:59:22,020 --> 02:59:22,600
of spam

12471
02:59:22,600 --> 02:59:23,140
but spam

12472
02:59:23,140 --> 02:59:23,620
gets ranked

12473
02:59:23,620 --> 02:59:23,900
low

12474
02:59:23,900 --> 02:59:24,860
because of

12475
02:59:24,860 --> 02:59:25,380
the influence

12476
02:59:25,380 --> 02:59:25,740
and link

12477
02:59:25,740 --> 02:59:26,100
structure

12478
02:59:26,100 --> 02:59:26,780
and so forth

12479
02:59:26,780 --> 02:59:27,220
and so on

12480
02:59:27,220 --> 02:59:29,460
I think we

12481
02:59:29,460 --> 02:59:30,560
should see if

12482
02:59:30,560 --> 02:59:31,020
we can finish

12483
02:59:31,020 --> 02:59:31,300
up

12484
02:59:31,300 --> 02:59:32,300
as the sun

12485
02:59:32,300 --> 02:59:32,640
is coming

12486
02:59:32,640 --> 02:59:33,100
on out

12487
02:59:33,100 --> 02:59:35,440
how do you

12488
02:59:35,440 --> 02:59:35,680
know if

12489
02:59:35,680 --> 02:59:36,120
you've won

12490
02:59:36,120 --> 02:59:38,780
5.1

12491
02:59:38,780 --> 02:59:40,060
this is the best

12492
02:59:40,060 --> 02:59:40,560
question of the

12493
02:59:40,560 --> 02:59:40,780
day

12494
02:59:40,780 --> 02:59:41,560
how do you

12495
02:59:41,560 --> 02:59:42,440
know if

12496
02:59:42,440 --> 02:59:42,820
you've won

12497
02:59:42,820 --> 02:59:46,380
it's not

12498
02:59:46,380 --> 02:59:46,760
possible

12499
02:59:46,760 --> 02:59:47,620
to win

12500
02:59:47,620 --> 02:59:48,040
this kind

12501
02:59:48,040 --> 02:59:48,360
of thing

12502
02:59:48,360 --> 02:59:49,100
this is a

12503
02:59:49,100 --> 02:59:50,920
continuous

12504
02:59:50,920 --> 02:59:51,580
striving

12505
02:59:51,580 --> 02:59:52,260
that people

12506
02:59:52,260 --> 02:59:52,660
have done

12507
02:59:52,660 --> 02:59:54,180
for a long

12508
02:59:54,180 --> 02:59:54,520
time

12509
02:59:54,520 --> 02:59:55,880
of course

12510
02:59:55,880 --> 02:59:57,380
there's many

12511
02:59:57,380 --> 02:59:57,880
individual

12512
02:59:57,880 --> 02:59:58,340
battles

12513
02:59:58,340 --> 02:59:58,700
that we

12514
02:59:58,700 --> 02:59:58,900
win

12515
02:59:58,900 --> 02:59:59,900
but it

12516
02:59:59,900 --> 03:00:00,440
is the

12517
03:00:00,440 --> 03:00:00,680
nature

12518
03:00:00,680 --> 03:00:01,100
of human

12519
03:00:01,100 --> 03:00:01,560
beings

12520
03:00:01,560 --> 03:00:01,840
that

12521
03:00:01,840 --> 03:00:02,420
human

12522
03:00:02,420 --> 03:00:03,080
beings

12523
03:00:03,080 --> 03:00:04,720
lie

12524
03:00:04,720 --> 03:00:05,160
and cheat

12525
03:00:05,160 --> 03:00:05,660
and deceive

12526
03:00:05,660 --> 03:00:07,080
and

12527
03:00:07,080 --> 03:00:09,400
organize

12528
03:00:09,400 --> 03:00:09,880
groups

12529
03:00:09,880 --> 03:00:10,580
of people

12530
03:00:10,580 --> 03:00:10,920
who do

12531
03:00:10,920 --> 03:00:11,160
not

12532
03:00:11,160 --> 03:00:12,000
lie

12533
03:00:12,000 --> 03:00:12,320
cheat

12534
03:00:12,320 --> 03:00:12,860
and deceive

12535
03:00:12,860 --> 03:00:14,620
find

12536
03:00:14,620 --> 03:00:15,060
each other

12537
03:00:15,060 --> 03:00:15,460
and get

12538
03:00:15,460 --> 03:00:15,880
together

12539
03:00:15,880 --> 03:00:17,180
and the

12540
03:00:17,180 --> 03:00:17,880
cause

12541
03:00:17,880 --> 03:00:18,520
they have

12542
03:00:18,520 --> 03:00:18,820
that

12543
03:00:18,820 --> 03:00:19,880
temperament

12544
03:00:19,880 --> 03:00:21,200
are more

12545
03:00:21,200 --> 03:00:21,560
efficient

12546
03:00:21,560 --> 03:00:23,180
because they're

12547
03:00:23,180 --> 03:00:23,600
not lying

12548
03:00:23,600 --> 03:00:24,000
and cheating

12549
03:00:24,000 --> 03:00:24,420
and beating

12550
03:00:24,420 --> 03:00:24,880
each other

12551
03:00:24,880 --> 03:00:26,000
so that is

12552
03:00:26,000 --> 03:00:26,960
an old

12553
03:00:26,960 --> 03:00:27,660
very old

12554
03:00:27,660 --> 03:00:28,060
struggle

12555
03:00:28,060 --> 03:00:29,760
between

12556
03:00:29,760 --> 03:00:30,580
opportunists

12557
03:00:30,580 --> 03:00:31,460
and collaborators

12558
03:00:31,460 --> 03:00:36,300
I don't see that

12559
03:00:36,300 --> 03:00:36,940
going away

12560
03:00:36,940 --> 03:00:37,940
I think we can make

12561
03:00:37,940 --> 03:00:38,720
some significant

12562
03:00:38,720 --> 03:00:39,520
advances

12563
03:00:39,520 --> 03:00:40,200
and it is

12564
03:00:40,200 --> 03:00:41,680
perhaps

12565
03:00:41,680 --> 03:00:46,000
it is the making

12566
03:00:46,000 --> 03:00:46,880
of these advances

12567
03:00:46,880 --> 03:00:47,840
and being involved

12568
03:00:47,840 --> 03:00:49,720
in that struggle

12569
03:00:49,720 --> 03:00:51,200
that is good

12570
03:00:51,200 --> 03:00:51,660
for people

12571
03:00:51,660 --> 03:00:53,180
so the process

12572
03:00:53,180 --> 03:00:54,580
is in part

12573
03:00:54,580 --> 03:00:55,360
the end game

12574
03:00:55,360 --> 03:00:57,400
is not just

12575
03:00:57,400 --> 03:00:57,760
to get

12576
03:00:57,760 --> 03:00:58,800
somewhere in the end

12577
03:00:58,800 --> 03:00:59,340
rather this

12578
03:00:59,340 --> 03:01:00,440
process of people

12579
03:01:00,440 --> 03:01:01,120
feeling it is

12580
03:01:01,120 --> 03:01:01,580
worthwhile

12581
03:01:01,580 --> 03:01:02,440
to be involved

12582
03:01:02,440 --> 03:01:02,860
in that sort

12583
03:01:02,860 --> 03:01:03,280
of struggle

12584
03:01:03,280 --> 03:01:05,460
is in fact

12585
03:01:05,460 --> 03:01:06,480
worthwhile

12586
03:01:06,480 --> 03:01:07,020
for people

12587
03:01:07,020 --> 03:01:13,800
is it satisfying

12588
03:01:13,800 --> 03:01:14,480
me spiritually

12589
03:01:14,480 --> 03:01:17,380
you've obviously

12590
03:01:17,380 --> 03:01:18,040
thought about this

12591
03:01:18,040 --> 03:01:18,240
a lot

12592
03:01:18,240 --> 03:01:22,280
as we're walking

12593
03:01:22,280 --> 03:01:22,900
can I ask you

12594
03:01:22,900 --> 03:01:23,780
one last question

12595
03:01:23,780 --> 03:01:24,380
that I was sort of

12596
03:01:24,380 --> 03:01:24,940
wondering about

12597
03:01:24,940 --> 03:01:25,340
on the way

12598
03:01:25,340 --> 03:01:25,980
which is

12599
03:01:25,980 --> 03:01:27,140
Scott talked about

12600
03:01:27,140 --> 03:01:28,020
the subculture

12601
03:01:28,020 --> 03:01:28,920
that is developed

12602
03:01:28,920 --> 03:01:29,480
around all this

12603
03:01:29,480 --> 03:01:30,180
which is a really

12604
03:01:30,180 --> 03:01:32,480
interesting idea

12605
03:01:32,480 --> 03:01:34,100
for us to explore

12606
03:01:34,100 --> 03:01:34,540
in the book

12607
03:01:34,540 --> 03:01:36,180
because it raises

12608
03:01:36,180 --> 03:01:36,880
this question

12609
03:01:36,880 --> 03:01:38,740
of does the

12610
03:01:38,740 --> 03:01:39,340
subculture

12611
03:01:39,340 --> 03:01:40,640
create the demand

12612
03:01:40,640 --> 03:01:41,800
that leads to

12613
03:01:41,800 --> 03:01:42,360
the creation

12614
03:01:42,360 --> 03:01:43,100
of the technology

12615
03:01:43,100 --> 03:01:43,660
or does the

12616
03:01:43,660 --> 03:01:44,240
technology

12617
03:01:44,240 --> 03:01:45,780
in fact

12618
03:01:45,780 --> 03:01:46,380
create the

12619
03:01:46,380 --> 03:01:46,900
subculture

12620
03:01:46,900 --> 03:01:48,960
it is sort of

12621
03:01:48,960 --> 03:01:49,340
interesting

12622
03:01:49,340 --> 03:01:50,200
cause and effect

12623
03:01:50,200 --> 03:01:51,640
well I think

12624
03:01:51,640 --> 03:01:52,740
you know

12625
03:01:52,740 --> 03:01:53,160
you can argue

12626
03:01:53,160 --> 03:01:53,620
this with both

12627
03:01:53,620 --> 03:01:54,440
sides

12628
03:01:54,440 --> 03:01:55,660
but I think

12629
03:01:55,660 --> 03:01:56,320
the technology

12630
03:01:56,320 --> 03:01:59,120
emits the subculture

12631
03:01:59,120 --> 03:02:02,420
once you have

12632
03:02:02,420 --> 03:02:02,860
a whole bunch

12633
03:02:02,860 --> 03:02:03,400
of young people

12634
03:02:03,400 --> 03:02:04,280
who can communicate

12635
03:02:04,280 --> 03:02:05,600
their ideas

12636
03:02:05,600 --> 03:02:06,160
and values

12637
03:02:06,160 --> 03:02:08,960
freely

12638
03:02:08,960 --> 03:02:09,800
then

12639
03:02:09,800 --> 03:02:10,800
then culture

12640
03:02:10,800 --> 03:02:11,720
arises naturally

12641
03:02:11,720 --> 03:02:14,760
and that culture

12642
03:02:14,760 --> 03:02:15,320
comes out of

12643
03:02:15,320 --> 03:02:15,980
yes it comes out

12644
03:02:15,980 --> 03:02:16,580
of experiences

12645
03:02:16,580 --> 03:02:17,320
and harmonizing

12646
03:02:17,320 --> 03:02:17,980
with other cultures

12647
03:02:17,980 --> 03:02:19,400
and stuff already

12648
03:02:19,400 --> 03:02:20,000
in the record

12649
03:02:20,000 --> 03:02:20,900
but it also

12650
03:02:20,900 --> 03:02:21,740
just comes out

12651
03:02:21,740 --> 03:02:22,940
of the temperament

12652
03:02:22,940 --> 03:02:25,080
of young people

12653
03:02:25,080 --> 03:02:27,720
the desire

12654
03:02:27,720 --> 03:02:28,240
the desire to find

12655
03:02:28,240 --> 03:02:28,700
allies

12656
03:02:28,700 --> 03:02:29,380
and friends

12657
03:02:29,380 --> 03:02:30,000
and share

12658
03:02:30,000 --> 03:02:32,160
in a process

12659
03:02:32,160 --> 03:02:33,600
and to remove

12660
03:02:33,600 --> 03:02:34,600
power from old people

12661
03:02:34,600 --> 03:02:36,080
through your exception

12662
03:02:36,080 --> 03:02:38,000
it's remarkable

12663
03:02:38,000 --> 03:02:38,740
how uncreative

12664
03:02:38,740 --> 03:02:39,580
old people are

12665
03:02:39,580 --> 03:02:40,700
speaking as an older

12666
03:02:40,700 --> 03:02:41,000
person

12667
03:02:41,000 --> 03:02:41,320
I agree

12668
03:02:41,320 --> 03:02:41,900
well I speak

12669
03:02:41,900 --> 03:02:43,200
as ones as well

12670
03:02:43,200 --> 03:02:44,860
no but I think

12671
03:02:44,860 --> 03:02:45,760
part of your

12672
03:02:45,760 --> 03:02:46,740
intellectual argument

12673
03:02:46,740 --> 03:02:48,260
is that

12674
03:02:48,260 --> 03:02:49,180
you start off

12675
03:02:49,180 --> 03:02:51,360
relatively

12676
03:02:51,360 --> 03:02:53,740
the model you're

12677
03:02:53,740 --> 03:02:54,000
using

12678
03:02:54,000 --> 03:02:54,980
the Stanford model

12679
03:02:54,980 --> 03:02:57,380
you start off

12680
03:02:57,380 --> 03:02:57,720
with sort of

12681
03:02:57,720 --> 03:02:58,540
human values

12682
03:02:58,540 --> 03:02:59,360
and then they get

12683
03:02:59,360 --> 03:03:00,220
co-opted

12684
03:03:00,220 --> 03:03:02,060
with my work

12685
03:03:02,060 --> 03:03:02,460
on yours

12686
03:03:02,460 --> 03:03:03,520
with this sort

12687
03:03:03,520 --> 03:03:04,020
of status

12688
03:03:04,020 --> 03:03:05,000
model

12689
03:03:05,000 --> 03:03:05,360
you know

12690
03:03:05,360 --> 03:03:05,760
that you're

12691
03:03:05,760 --> 03:03:06,620
you're sort of

12692
03:03:06,620 --> 03:03:07,420
forced into the

12693
03:03:07,420 --> 03:03:07,760
structure

12694
03:03:07,760 --> 03:03:09,460
and that the

12695
03:03:09,460 --> 03:03:10,520
incentive system

12696
03:03:10,520 --> 03:03:11,660
and constraints

12697
03:03:11,660 --> 03:03:13,640
sort of put you

12698
03:03:13,640 --> 03:03:14,320
into this box

12699
03:03:14,320 --> 03:03:15,020
as you get older

12700
03:03:15,020 --> 03:03:16,080
and that's sort of

12701
03:03:16,080 --> 03:03:16,320
right

12702
03:03:16,320 --> 03:03:16,800
exactly

12703
03:03:16,800 --> 03:03:19,600
and with

12704
03:03:19,600 --> 03:03:20,780
different systems

12705
03:03:20,780 --> 03:03:21,580
that potentiate

12706
03:03:21,580 --> 03:03:24,120
different ways

12707
03:03:24,120 --> 03:03:24,600
of

12708
03:03:24,600 --> 03:03:26,800
transmitting

12709
03:03:26,800 --> 03:03:27,460
wealth

12710
03:03:27,460 --> 03:03:28,080
or communicating

12711
03:03:28,080 --> 03:03:28,580
values

12712
03:03:28,580 --> 03:03:29,740
or making

12713
03:03:29,740 --> 03:03:31,300
some

12714
03:03:31,300 --> 03:03:33,200
types of

12715
03:03:33,200 --> 03:03:36,120
group

12716
03:03:36,120 --> 03:03:36,640
cognition

12717
03:03:36,640 --> 03:03:37,180
more efficient

12718
03:03:37,180 --> 03:03:37,560
than others

12719
03:03:37,560 --> 03:03:38,420
and you're

12720
03:03:38,420 --> 03:03:38,800
arguing that

12721
03:03:38,800 --> 03:03:39,220
if you get

12722
03:03:39,220 --> 03:03:39,720
enough of

12723
03:03:39,720 --> 03:03:40,140
this sort

12724
03:03:40,140 --> 03:03:40,680
of new

12725
03:03:40,680 --> 03:03:41,600
this group

12726
03:03:41,600 --> 03:03:41,880
that you're

12727
03:03:41,880 --> 03:03:42,280
identifying

12728
03:03:42,280 --> 03:03:43,240
together

12729
03:03:43,240 --> 03:03:44,220
it in fact

12730
03:03:44,220 --> 03:03:44,620
is a

12731
03:03:44,620 --> 03:03:46,000
summary change

12732
03:03:46,000 --> 03:03:46,320
in these

12733
03:03:46,320 --> 03:03:47,100
complex systems

12734
03:03:47,100 --> 03:03:47,440
right

12735
03:03:47,440 --> 03:03:48,960
it'll be

12736
03:03:48,960 --> 03:03:49,540
interesting to see

12737
03:03:49,540 --> 03:03:50,360
whether we have

12738
03:03:50,360 --> 03:03:51,000
a bit of a

12739
03:03:51,000 --> 03:03:52,420
some sort of

12740
03:03:52,420 --> 03:03:53,400
state change

12741
03:03:53,400 --> 03:03:53,800
as well

12742
03:03:53,800 --> 03:03:54,780
the revolution

12743
03:03:54,780 --> 03:03:55,120
is a big

12744
03:03:55,120 --> 03:03:55,680
state change

12745
03:03:55,680 --> 03:03:56,140
like everything

12746
03:03:56,140 --> 03:03:56,600
was in the

12747
03:03:56,600 --> 03:03:56,840
state

12748
03:03:56,840 --> 03:03:57,360
and then

12749
03:03:57,360 --> 03:03:58,680
it collapses

12750
03:03:58,680 --> 03:03:59,200
into another

12751
03:03:59,200 --> 03:03:59,500
state

12752
03:03:59,500 --> 03:04:01,240
and those

12753
03:04:01,240 --> 03:04:01,780
transitions

12754
03:04:01,780 --> 03:04:02,100
come in

12755
03:04:02,100 --> 03:04:02,600
very quickly

12756
03:04:02,600 --> 03:04:03,700
it'll be

12757
03:04:03,700 --> 03:04:04,100
interesting to

12758
03:04:04,100 --> 03:04:04,480
see whether

12759
03:04:04,480 --> 03:04:05,240
we will

12760
03:04:05,240 --> 03:04:06,300
have a

12761
03:04:06,300 --> 03:04:06,820
broader

12762
03:04:06,820 --> 03:04:08,120
general

12763
03:04:08,120 --> 03:04:08,980
globalized

12764
03:04:08,980 --> 03:04:10,080
cultural change

12765
03:04:10,080 --> 03:04:10,700
that has

12766
03:04:10,700 --> 03:04:11,620
this fast

12767
03:04:11,620 --> 03:04:12,340
transition

12768
03:04:12,340 --> 03:04:14,680
it's possible

12769
03:04:14,680 --> 03:04:15,240
yeah

12770
03:04:15,240 --> 03:04:17,260
one thing I have

12771
03:04:17,260 --> 03:04:17,680
learned is

12772
03:04:17,680 --> 03:04:18,100
things stop

12773
03:04:18,100 --> 03:04:18,560
and fast

12774
03:04:18,560 --> 03:04:18,840
because of

12775
03:04:18,840 --> 03:04:19,380
globalization

12776
03:04:19,380 --> 03:04:20,300
right

12777
03:04:20,300 --> 03:04:21,620
because everything's

12778
03:04:21,620 --> 03:04:22,100
interconnected

12779
03:04:22,100 --> 03:04:23,500
didn't used to be

12780
03:04:23,500 --> 03:04:23,680
true

12781
03:04:23,680 --> 03:04:24,420
the information

12782
03:04:24,420 --> 03:04:25,100
money involved

12783
03:04:25,100 --> 03:04:26,260
I mean

12784
03:04:26,260 --> 03:04:26,600
that's

12785
03:04:26,600 --> 03:04:27,460
one of the

12786
03:04:27,460 --> 03:04:28,080
I mean

12787
03:04:28,080 --> 03:04:28,640
the big issue

12788
03:04:28,640 --> 03:04:29,260
with globalization

12789
03:04:29,260 --> 03:04:30,340
is that

12790
03:04:30,340 --> 03:04:32,960
you can be an

12791
03:04:32,960 --> 03:04:33,260
arsehole

12792
03:04:33,260 --> 03:04:33,620
and move the

12793
03:04:33,620 --> 03:04:34,120
money elsewhere

12794
03:04:34,120 --> 03:04:35,660
so

12795
03:04:35,660 --> 03:04:38,100
fast EFTs

12796
03:04:38,100 --> 03:04:38,700
fast wealth

12797
03:04:38,700 --> 03:04:39,280
movements

12798
03:04:39,280 --> 03:04:41,100
fast signing

12799
03:04:41,100 --> 03:04:41,760
of contracts

12800
03:04:41,760 --> 03:04:42,500
which are a type

12801
03:04:42,500 --> 03:04:42,840
of wealth

12802
03:04:42,840 --> 03:04:43,280
movement

12803
03:04:43,280 --> 03:04:46,360
these

12804
03:04:46,360 --> 03:04:47,820
encourage

12805
03:04:47,820 --> 03:04:48,740
opportunism

12806
03:04:48,740 --> 03:04:50,140
because if

12807
03:04:50,140 --> 03:04:50,980
political

12808
03:04:50,980 --> 03:04:51,500
sanction

12809
03:04:51,500 --> 03:04:52,620
money can move

12810
03:04:52,620 --> 03:04:53,200
faster than

12811
03:04:53,200 --> 03:04:53,900
political sanction

12812
03:04:53,900 --> 03:04:56,240
then

12813
03:04:56,240 --> 03:04:57,720
you can just

12814
03:04:57,720 --> 03:04:58,360
keep moving

12815
03:04:58,360 --> 03:04:58,720
the money

12816
03:04:58,720 --> 03:04:59,140
through the

12817
03:04:59,140 --> 03:04:59,460
system

12818
03:04:59,460 --> 03:05:00,280
and getting

12819
03:05:00,280 --> 03:05:01,000
and growing

12820
03:05:01,000 --> 03:05:01,660
it as it moves

12821
03:05:01,660 --> 03:05:01,940
through the

12822
03:05:01,940 --> 03:05:02,200
system

12823
03:05:02,200 --> 03:05:02,880
it can become

12824
03:05:02,880 --> 03:05:03,220
more and more

12825
03:05:03,220 --> 03:05:03,600
powerful

12826
03:05:03,600 --> 03:05:04,140
and by the

12827
03:05:04,140 --> 03:05:04,480
time

12828
03:05:04,480 --> 03:05:05,200
the moral

12829
03:05:05,200 --> 03:05:05,660
outrage

12830
03:05:05,660 --> 03:05:06,120
comes to

12831
03:05:06,120 --> 03:05:06,480
stop it

12832
03:05:06,480 --> 03:05:07,080
it's too late

12833
03:05:07,080 --> 03:05:07,420
it's on

12834
03:05:07,420 --> 03:05:07,660
so

12835
03:05:07,660 --> 03:05:11,560
what's happening

12836
03:05:11,560 --> 03:05:12,080
on the internet

12837
03:05:12,080 --> 03:05:12,560
is that

12838
03:05:12,560 --> 03:05:13,800
political

12839
03:05:13,800 --> 03:05:14,720
sanction

12840
03:05:14,720 --> 03:05:17,500
by political

12841
03:05:17,500 --> 03:05:17,800
I mean

12842
03:05:17,800 --> 03:05:18,580
the way

12843
03:05:18,580 --> 03:05:18,900
I use

12844
03:05:18,900 --> 03:05:19,220
political

12845
03:05:19,220 --> 03:05:19,440
the way

12846
03:05:19,440 --> 03:05:19,900
Australians

12847
03:05:19,900 --> 03:05:20,220
use it

12848
03:05:20,220 --> 03:05:20,660
by the way

12849
03:05:20,660 --> 03:05:21,080
which is

12850
03:05:21,080 --> 03:05:21,540
it's not

12851
03:05:21,540 --> 03:05:21,720
about

12852
03:05:21,720 --> 03:05:23,460
it's not

12853
03:05:23,460 --> 03:05:23,980
about party

12854
03:05:23,980 --> 03:05:24,480
politics

12855
03:05:24,480 --> 03:05:25,160
it's just

12856
03:05:25,160 --> 03:05:26,940
the body

12857
03:05:26,940 --> 03:05:27,260
politics

12858
03:05:27,260 --> 03:05:29,260
so

12859
03:05:29,260 --> 03:05:32,280
political

12860
03:05:32,280 --> 03:05:32,660
sanction

12861
03:05:32,660 --> 03:05:33,020
is now

12862
03:05:33,020 --> 03:05:33,440
able to

12863
03:05:33,440 --> 03:05:33,880
move a lot

12864
03:05:33,880 --> 03:05:34,360
faster

12865
03:05:34,360 --> 03:05:35,980
than it did

12866
03:05:35,980 --> 03:05:36,340
before

12867
03:05:36,340 --> 03:05:37,240
and

12868
03:05:37,240 --> 03:05:38,700
possibly

12869
03:05:38,700 --> 03:05:39,280
as fast

12870
03:05:39,280 --> 03:05:39,680
as my

12871
03:05:39,680 --> 03:05:40,380
not in

12872
03:05:40,380 --> 03:05:41,080
any

12873
03:05:41,080 --> 03:05:41,580
individual

12874
03:05:41,580 --> 03:05:42,160
transfer

12875
03:05:42,160 --> 03:05:42,560
but in

12876
03:05:42,560 --> 03:05:42,760
the

12877
03:05:42,760 --> 03:05:43,780
complex

12878
03:05:43,780 --> 03:05:44,280
structuring

12879
03:05:44,280 --> 03:05:44,700
arrangements

12880
03:05:44,700 --> 03:05:45,080
you need

12881
03:05:45,080 --> 03:05:45,500
to make

12882
03:05:45,500 --> 03:05:46,160
transfers

12883
03:05:46,160 --> 03:05:46,380
these

12884
03:05:46,380 --> 03:05:46,720
can take

12885
03:05:46,720 --> 03:05:47,140
a while

12886
03:05:47,140 --> 03:05:50,160
that's

12887
03:05:50,160 --> 03:05:51,420
everybody

12888
03:05:51,420 --> 03:05:51,700
ready

12889
03:05:51,700 --> 03:05:51,980
let's

12890
03:05:51,980 --> 03:05:52,520
move on

12891
03:05:52,520 --> 03:05:56,480
you can

12892
03:05:56,480 --> 03:05:56,860
think of

12893
03:05:56,860 --> 03:05:57,020
another

12894
03:05:57,020 --> 03:05:57,500
question

12895
03:05:57,500 --> 03:05:59,440
I have

12896
03:05:59,440 --> 03:05:59,940
a lot

12897
03:05:59,940 --> 03:06:00,680
of

12898
03:06:00,680 --> 03:06:01,760
doing

12899
03:06:01,760 --> 03:06:02,040
you've been

12900
03:06:02,040 --> 03:06:02,500
so generous

12901
03:06:02,500 --> 03:06:02,780
with your

12902
03:06:02,780 --> 03:06:03,080
time

12903
03:06:03,080 --> 03:06:05,640
do you

12904
03:06:05,640 --> 03:06:05,740
have a

12905
03:06:05,740 --> 03:06:06,060
bracelet

12906
03:06:06,060 --> 03:06:07,300
I do

12907
03:06:07,300 --> 03:06:07,680
on my

12908
03:06:07,680 --> 03:06:07,920
leg

12909
03:06:07,920 --> 03:06:09,120
it's not

12910
03:06:09,120 --> 03:06:09,460
a bracelet

12911
03:06:09,460 --> 03:06:09,900
it's a

12912
03:06:09,900 --> 03:06:10,220
manacle

12913
03:06:10,220 --> 03:06:11,020
a man

12914
03:06:11,020 --> 03:06:16,140
and just

12915
03:06:16,140 --> 03:06:16,700
just

12916
03:06:16,700 --> 03:06:17,180
just out

12917
03:06:17,180 --> 03:06:17,320
of

12918
03:06:17,320 --> 03:06:17,840
curiosity

12919
03:06:17,840 --> 03:06:18,380
so

12920
03:06:18,380 --> 03:06:22,460
as you

12921
03:06:22,460 --> 03:06:22,860
get ready

12922
03:06:22,860 --> 03:06:23,180
for this

12923
03:06:23,180 --> 03:06:23,420
sort of

12924
03:06:23,420 --> 03:06:23,660
next

12925
03:06:23,660 --> 03:06:24,080
court

12926
03:06:24,080 --> 03:06:24,360
thing

12927
03:06:24,360 --> 03:06:24,660
you have

12928
03:06:24,660 --> 03:06:24,980
to go

12929
03:06:24,980 --> 03:06:25,220
through

12930
03:06:25,220 --> 03:06:25,780
unfortunately

12931
03:06:25,780 --> 03:06:27,100
the legal

12932
03:06:27,100 --> 03:06:27,300
team

12933
03:06:27,300 --> 03:06:27,720
comes over

12934
03:06:27,720 --> 03:06:28,320
and visits

12935
03:06:28,320 --> 03:06:31,400
well

12936
03:06:31,400 --> 03:06:31,980
it's kind of

12937
03:06:31,980 --> 03:06:32,240
come over

12938
03:06:32,240 --> 03:06:32,660
every day

12939
03:06:32,660 --> 03:06:33,280
out here

12940
03:06:33,280 --> 03:06:35,360
I did

12941
03:06:35,360 --> 03:06:35,920
eight hours

12942
03:06:35,920 --> 03:06:36,280
traveling

12943
03:06:36,280 --> 03:06:36,580
but I

12944
03:06:36,580 --> 03:06:36,860
actually

12945
03:06:36,860 --> 03:06:37,320
I fired

12946
03:06:37,320 --> 03:06:38,420
part of

12947
03:06:38,420 --> 03:06:38,720
my old

12948
03:06:38,720 --> 03:06:39,120
legal team

12949
03:06:39,120 --> 03:06:40,780
you end up

12950
03:06:40,780 --> 03:06:41,420
on the phone

12951
03:06:41,420 --> 03:06:41,920
a lot

12952
03:06:41,920 --> 03:06:42,720
well what

12953
03:06:42,720 --> 03:06:43,240
ended up

12954
03:06:43,240 --> 03:06:43,580
happening

12955
03:06:43,580 --> 03:06:43,880
is that

12956
03:06:43,880 --> 03:06:44,240
they were

12957
03:06:44,240 --> 03:06:44,960
charging

12958
03:06:44,960 --> 03:06:46,360
after promising

12959
03:06:46,360 --> 03:06:46,860
not to

12960
03:06:46,860 --> 03:06:48,640
730 pounds

12961
03:06:48,640 --> 03:06:48,960
an hour

12962
03:06:48,960 --> 03:06:49,300
to sit

12963
03:06:49,300 --> 03:06:49,600
on that

12964
03:06:49,600 --> 03:06:49,920
train

12965
03:06:49,920 --> 03:06:50,600
coming out

12966
03:06:50,600 --> 03:06:50,940
from

12967
03:06:50,940 --> 03:06:51,940
London

12968
03:06:51,940 --> 03:06:54,960
I was rather

12969
03:06:54,960 --> 03:06:55,400
unhappy

12970
03:06:55,400 --> 03:06:55,680
about

12971
03:06:55,680 --> 03:06:56,320
but at

12972
03:06:56,320 --> 03:06:56,560
the end

12973
03:06:56,560 --> 03:06:56,780
of the

12974
03:06:56,780 --> 03:06:57,160
day

12975
03:06:57,160 --> 03:06:57,780
do

12976
03:06:57,780 --> 03:06:59,620
you end

12977
03:06:59,620 --> 03:06:59,920
up having

12978
03:06:59,920 --> 03:07:00,260
visitors

12979
03:07:00,260 --> 03:07:00,680
every day

12980
03:07:00,680 --> 03:07:01,060
basically

12981
03:07:01,060 --> 03:07:01,860
or is this

12982
03:07:01,860 --> 03:07:02,320
relatively

12983
03:07:02,320 --> 03:07:02,760
every

12984
03:07:02,760 --> 03:07:06,200
my staff

12985
03:07:06,200 --> 03:07:06,540
or

12986
03:07:06,540 --> 03:07:07,060
more

12987
03:07:07,060 --> 03:07:09,520
interesting

12988
03:07:09,520 --> 03:07:10,100
visitors

12989
03:07:10,100 --> 03:07:11,180
every

12990
03:07:11,180 --> 03:07:11,820
week

12991
03:07:11,820 --> 03:07:12,280
or something

12992
03:07:12,280 --> 03:07:15,900
at least

12993
03:07:15,900 --> 03:07:16,660
a distraction

12994
03:07:16,660 --> 03:07:17,720
from

12995
03:07:17,720 --> 03:07:18,260
so

12996
03:07:18,260 --> 03:07:19,720
we wouldn't

12997
03:07:19,720 --> 03:07:20,040
mind

12998
03:07:20,040 --> 03:07:20,580
a leak

12999
03:07:20,580 --> 03:07:21,120
from Google

13000
03:07:21,120 --> 03:07:21,780
which would

13001
03:07:21,780 --> 03:07:22,080
be

13002
03:07:22,080 --> 03:07:22,780
I think

13003
03:07:22,780 --> 03:07:23,260
probably

13004
03:07:23,260 --> 03:07:24,460
all the

13005
03:07:24,460 --> 03:07:25,760
Patriot Act

13006
03:07:25,760 --> 03:07:27,860
requests

13007
03:07:27,860 --> 03:07:29,120
which would

13008
03:07:29,120 --> 03:07:29,460
be

13009
03:07:29,460 --> 03:07:30,180
illegal

13010
03:07:30,180 --> 03:07:32,100
depends

13011
03:07:32,100 --> 03:07:32,700
on jurisdiction

13012
03:07:32,700 --> 03:07:34,160
we are

13013
03:07:34,160 --> 03:07:34,360
in

13014
03:07:34,360 --> 03:07:34,720
US

13015
03:07:34,720 --> 03:07:34,940
there's

13016
03:07:34,940 --> 03:07:35,200
higher

13017
03:07:35,200 --> 03:07:35,600
laws

13018
03:07:35,600 --> 03:07:35,840
there's

13019
03:07:35,840 --> 03:07:36,060
higher

13020
03:07:36,060 --> 03:07:36,400
laws

13021
03:07:36,400 --> 03:07:36,700
first

13022
03:07:36,700 --> 03:07:37,080
amendment

13023
03:07:37,080 --> 03:07:38,360
I've

13024
03:07:38,360 --> 03:07:38,660
actually

13025
03:07:38,660 --> 03:07:39,120
spent

13026
03:07:39,120 --> 03:07:39,520
quite a bit

13027
03:07:39,520 --> 03:07:39,740
of time

13028
03:07:39,740 --> 03:07:40,020
on this

13029
03:07:40,020 --> 03:07:40,380
question

13030
03:07:40,380 --> 03:07:41,180
because

13031
03:07:41,180 --> 03:07:42,660
I'm in

13032
03:07:42,660 --> 03:07:42,820
great

13033
03:07:42,820 --> 03:07:43,120
trouble

13034
03:07:43,120 --> 03:07:43,740
because

13035
03:07:43,740 --> 03:07:44,620
I've

13036
03:07:44,620 --> 03:07:44,940
given a

13037
03:07:44,940 --> 03:07:45,120
series

13038
03:07:45,120 --> 03:07:45,260
of

13039
03:07:45,260 --> 03:07:45,660
criticisms

13040
03:07:45,660 --> 03:07:46,000
about

13041
03:07:46,000 --> 03:07:46,360
Patriot

13042
03:07:46,360 --> 03:07:46,680
1 and

13043
03:07:46,680 --> 03:07:46,980
Patriot

13044
03:07:46,980 --> 03:07:47,240
2

13045
03:07:47,240 --> 03:07:48,040
because

13046
03:07:48,040 --> 03:07:49,720
they're

13047
03:07:49,720 --> 03:07:51,400
non-transparent

13048
03:07:51,400 --> 03:07:53,000
because

13049
03:07:53,000 --> 03:07:53,440
the judges

13050
03:07:53,440 --> 03:07:53,820
orders

13051
03:07:53,820 --> 03:07:54,240
are hidden

13052
03:07:54,240 --> 03:07:54,660
and so

13053
03:07:54,660 --> 03:07:54,840
forth

13054
03:07:54,840 --> 03:07:55,160
and so

13055
03:07:55,160 --> 03:07:55,360
on

13056
03:07:55,360 --> 03:07:57,400
and the

13057
03:07:57,400 --> 03:07:57,740
answer

13058
03:07:57,740 --> 03:08:00,260
is that

13059
03:08:00,260 --> 03:08:00,720
the laws

13060
03:08:00,720 --> 03:08:01,060
are quite

13061
03:08:01,060 --> 03:08:01,380
clear

13062
03:08:01,380 --> 03:08:01,720
about

13063
03:08:01,720 --> 03:08:02,300
Google

13064
03:08:02,300 --> 03:08:02,600
and the

13065
03:08:02,600 --> 03:08:02,900
US

13066
03:08:02,900 --> 03:08:03,840
we couldn't

13067
03:08:03,840 --> 03:08:04,140
do it

13068
03:08:04,140 --> 03:08:04,820
we're

13069
03:08:04,820 --> 03:08:05,120
fighting

13070
03:08:05,120 --> 03:08:05,660
this case

13071
03:08:05,660 --> 03:08:05,900
now

13072
03:08:05,900 --> 03:08:06,080
with

13073
03:08:06,080 --> 03:08:06,600
Twitter

13074
03:08:06,600 --> 03:08:07,980
we've

13075
03:08:07,980 --> 03:08:08,100
done

13076
03:08:08,100 --> 03:08:08,540
three

13077
03:08:08,540 --> 03:08:09,300
court

13078
03:08:09,300 --> 03:08:09,640
hearings

13079
03:08:09,640 --> 03:08:09,980
now

13080
03:08:09,980 --> 03:08:12,080
trying to

13081
03:08:12,080 --> 03:08:12,380
get the

13082
03:08:12,380 --> 03:08:12,700
names

13083
03:08:12,700 --> 03:08:12,920
of the

13084
03:08:12,920 --> 03:08:13,080
other

13085
03:08:13,080 --> 03:08:13,500
companies

13086
03:08:13,500 --> 03:08:13,800
that

13087
03:08:13,800 --> 03:08:14,840
fulfilled

13088
03:08:14,840 --> 03:08:15,260
the

13089
03:08:15,260 --> 03:08:16,400
subpoenas

13090
03:08:16,400 --> 03:08:16,660
to the

13091
03:08:16,660 --> 03:08:17,100
grand jury

13092
03:08:17,100 --> 03:08:17,360
in the

13093
03:08:17,360 --> 03:08:17,640
US

13094
03:08:17,640 --> 03:08:20,060
Twitter

13095
03:08:20,060 --> 03:08:21,040
resisted

13096
03:08:21,040 --> 03:08:21,780
and so

13097
03:08:21,780 --> 03:08:22,360
that's how

13098
03:08:22,360 --> 03:08:23,260
some of

13099
03:08:23,260 --> 03:08:23,520
us

13100
03:08:23,520 --> 03:08:24,280
became aware

13101
03:08:24,280 --> 03:08:26,320
they argued

13102
03:08:26,320 --> 03:08:26,960
that we

13103
03:08:26,960 --> 03:08:27,240
should be

13104
03:08:27,240 --> 03:08:27,660
told that

13105
03:08:27,660 --> 03:08:27,960
there was

13106
03:08:27,960 --> 03:08:28,100
a

13107
03:08:28,100 --> 03:08:28,420
subpoena

13108
03:08:28,420 --> 03:08:29,900
I wasn't

13109
03:08:29,900 --> 03:08:30,280
told

13110
03:08:30,280 --> 03:08:31,220
but

13111
03:08:31,220 --> 03:08:33,040
yeah

13112
03:08:33,040 --> 03:08:33,780
personally

13113
03:08:33,780 --> 03:08:35,240
but three

13114
03:08:35,240 --> 03:08:35,760
other people

13115
03:08:35,760 --> 03:08:36,440
but we know

13116
03:08:36,440 --> 03:08:36,860
there's at least

13117
03:08:36,860 --> 03:08:37,300
four other

13118
03:08:37,300 --> 03:08:37,440
companies

13119
03:08:37,440 --> 03:08:37,800
I can certainly

13120
03:08:37,800 --> 03:08:38,580
pass on your

13121
03:08:38,580 --> 03:08:39,220
request to our

13122
03:08:39,220 --> 03:08:39,780
general council

13123
03:08:39,780 --> 03:08:41,440
tell them to

13124
03:08:41,440 --> 03:08:41,940
argue that

13125
03:08:41,940 --> 03:08:42,460
we should be

13126
03:08:42,460 --> 03:08:42,780
told

13127
03:08:42,780 --> 03:08:43,840
so your

13128
03:08:43,840 --> 03:08:45,780
specific request

13129
03:08:45,780 --> 03:08:46,240
is that

13130
03:08:46,240 --> 03:08:47,520
Google argue

13131
03:08:47,520 --> 03:08:48,080
legally

13132
03:08:48,080 --> 03:08:49,180
that

13133
03:08:49,180 --> 03:08:50,240
WikiLeaks

13134
03:08:50,240 --> 03:08:50,520
as an

13135
03:08:50,520 --> 03:08:50,980
organization

13136
03:08:50,980 --> 03:08:51,480
should be

13137
03:08:51,480 --> 03:08:52,120
informed

13138
03:08:52,120 --> 03:08:53,400
or any

13139
03:08:53,400 --> 03:08:53,640
of the

13140
03:08:53,640 --> 03:08:54,080
individuals

13141
03:08:54,080 --> 03:08:55,360
if they

13142
03:08:55,360 --> 03:08:55,920
are named

13143
03:08:55,920 --> 03:08:56,180
in a

13144
03:08:56,180 --> 03:08:56,540
FISA

13145
03:08:56,540 --> 03:08:59,460
I will

13146
03:08:59,460 --> 03:08:59,960
pass that

13147
03:08:59,960 --> 03:09:01,080
along

13148
03:09:01,080 --> 03:09:04,300
and we'll

13149
03:09:04,300 --> 03:09:04,680
see what

13150
03:09:04,680 --> 03:09:05,340
comes back

13151
03:09:05,340 --> 03:09:05,700
and tell them

13152
03:09:05,700 --> 03:09:06,100
to bring back

13153
03:09:06,100 --> 03:09:06,320
all the

13154
03:09:06,320 --> 03:09:06,660
other ones

13155
03:09:06,660 --> 03:09:11,960
why don't

13156
03:09:11,960 --> 03:09:12,300
we all

13157
03:09:12,300 --> 03:09:12,600
sort of

13158
03:09:12,600 --> 03:09:13,320
figure out

13159
03:09:13,320 --> 03:09:13,580
what we're

13160
03:09:13,580 --> 03:09:13,740
going to do

13161
03:09:13,740 --> 03:09:14,020
next

13162
03:09:14,020 --> 03:09:14,680
in a minute

13163
03:09:14,680 --> 03:09:14,980
but let's

13164
03:09:14,980 --> 03:09:15,280
actually

13165
03:09:15,280 --> 03:09:15,780
get back

13166
03:09:15,780 --> 03:09:15,980
to

13167
03:09:15,980 --> 03:09:16,580
actually

13168
03:09:16,580 --> 03:09:17,020
running

13169
03:09:17,020 --> 03:09:17,240
that

13170
03:09:17,240 --> 03:09:17,500
running

13171
03:09:17,500 --> 03:09:17,660
the

13172
03:09:17,660 --> 03:09:18,060
other

13173
03:09:18,060 --> 03:09:20,380
thing

13174
03:09:20,380 --> 03:09:20,520
is

13175
03:09:20,520 --> 03:09:20,620
in

13176
03:09:20,620 --> 03:09:20,760
terms

13177
03:09:20,760 --> 03:09:20,880
of

13178
03:09:20,880 --> 03:09:21,140
running

13179
03:09:21,140 --> 03:09:21,700
WikiLeaks

13180
03:09:21,700 --> 03:09:24,800
are you

13181
03:09:24,800 --> 03:09:25,180
able

13182
03:09:25,180 --> 03:09:26,140
you have

13183
03:09:26,140 --> 03:09:26,600
a staff

13184
03:09:26,600 --> 03:09:27,100
so you

13185
03:09:27,100 --> 03:09:27,340
have to

13186
03:09:27,340 --> 03:09:27,640
talk to

13187
03:09:27,640 --> 03:09:27,820
them

13188
03:09:27,820 --> 03:09:30,140
I assume

13189
03:09:30,140 --> 03:09:30,380
you could

13190
03:09:30,380 --> 03:09:30,820
do email

13191
03:09:30,820 --> 03:09:31,140
and all

13192
03:09:31,140 --> 03:09:31,380
that

13193
03:09:31,380 --> 03:09:32,520
I don't

13194
03:09:32,520 --> 03:09:32,700
use

13195
03:09:32,700 --> 03:09:32,980
email

13196
03:09:32,980 --> 03:09:33,480
because

13197
03:09:33,480 --> 03:09:33,780
it's

13198
03:09:33,780 --> 03:09:34,220
too

13199
03:09:34,220 --> 03:09:34,620
dangerous

13200
03:09:34,620 --> 03:09:35,280
an

13201
03:09:35,280 --> 03:09:35,600
encrypted

13202
03:09:35,600 --> 03:09:35,960
email

13203
03:09:35,960 --> 03:09:36,280
is

13204
03:09:36,280 --> 03:09:36,960
possibly

13205
03:09:36,960 --> 03:09:37,440
even

13206
03:09:37,440 --> 03:09:37,940
worse

13207
03:09:37,940 --> 03:09:38,900
because

13208
03:09:38,900 --> 03:09:39,480
it's

13209
03:09:39,480 --> 03:09:39,920
such a

13210
03:09:39,920 --> 03:09:40,320
flag

13211
03:09:40,320 --> 03:09:40,560
for

13212
03:09:40,560 --> 03:09:40,880
endpoint

13213
03:09:40,880 --> 03:09:41,340
attacks

13214
03:09:41,340 --> 03:09:42,080
attack

13215
03:09:42,080 --> 03:09:42,260
that

13216
03:09:42,260 --> 03:09:42,540
endpoint

13217
03:09:42,540 --> 03:09:42,840
attack

13218
03:09:42,840 --> 03:09:42,980
that

13219
03:09:42,980 --> 03:09:43,280
endpoint

13220
03:09:43,280 --> 03:09:46,220
but we

13221
03:09:46,220 --> 03:09:46,820
do have

13222
03:09:46,820 --> 03:09:47,500
encrypting

13223
03:09:47,500 --> 03:09:47,980
phones

13224
03:09:47,980 --> 03:09:48,720
and

13225
03:09:48,720 --> 03:09:49,720
unfortunately

13226
03:09:49,720 --> 03:09:50,520
they don't

13227
03:09:50,520 --> 03:09:50,920
work in

13228
03:09:50,920 --> 03:09:51,140
all

13229
03:09:51,140 --> 03:09:51,880
countries

13230
03:09:51,880 --> 03:09:52,580
but the

13231
03:09:52,580 --> 03:09:53,040
SMSs

13232
03:09:53,040 --> 03:09:53,360
work in

13233
03:09:53,360 --> 03:09:53,500
all

13234
03:09:53,500 --> 03:09:53,980
countries

13235
03:09:53,980 --> 03:09:54,940
when you

13236
03:09:54,940 --> 03:09:55,260
speak

13237
03:09:55,260 --> 03:09:55,540
with a

13238
03:09:55,540 --> 03:09:55,760
staff

13239
03:09:55,760 --> 03:09:56,040
member

13240
03:09:56,040 --> 03:09:56,160
it

13241
03:09:56,160 --> 03:09:56,260
would

13242
03:09:56,260 --> 03:09:56,400
be

13243
03:09:56,400 --> 03:09:56,680
typically

13244
03:09:56,680 --> 03:09:56,900
on

13245
03:09:56,900 --> 03:09:57,040
the

13246
03:09:57,040 --> 03:09:57,280
phone

13247
03:09:57,280 --> 03:09:57,440
or

13248
03:09:57,440 --> 03:09:57,580
in

13249
03:09:57,580 --> 03:09:57,880
person

13250
03:09:57,880 --> 03:09:58,480
typically

13251
03:09:58,480 --> 03:09:58,680
in

13252
03:09:58,680 --> 03:09:58,960
person

13253
03:09:58,960 --> 03:10:00,480
I've

13254
03:10:00,480 --> 03:10:00,660
kind

13255
03:10:00,660 --> 03:10:00,780
of

13256
03:10:00,780 --> 03:10:01,020
gotten

13257
03:10:01,020 --> 03:10:01,400
like

13258
03:10:01,400 --> 03:10:01,660
Osama

13259
03:10:01,660 --> 03:10:02,080
Bin Laden

13260
03:10:02,080 --> 03:10:02,460
now

13261
03:10:02,460 --> 03:10:03,080
how big

13262
03:10:03,080 --> 03:10:03,320
is the

13263
03:10:03,320 --> 03:10:03,580
staff

13264
03:10:03,580 --> 03:10:05,920
about

13265
03:10:05,920 --> 03:10:06,300
20

13266
03:10:06,300 --> 03:10:06,880
people

13267
03:10:06,880 --> 03:10:07,400
yeah

13268
03:10:07,400 --> 03:10:08,560
but

13269
03:10:08,560 --> 03:10:11,620
roughly

13270
03:10:11,620 --> 03:10:12,760
then if I

13271
03:10:12,760 --> 03:10:13,260
were to

13272
03:10:13,260 --> 03:10:14,200
describe it

13273
03:10:14,200 --> 03:10:15,920
people come

13274
03:10:15,920 --> 03:10:16,360
and visit

13275
03:10:16,360 --> 03:10:17,820
you're

13276
03:10:17,820 --> 03:10:18,720
using

13277
03:10:18,720 --> 03:10:19,260
technology

13278
03:10:19,260 --> 03:10:19,660
carefully

13279
03:10:19,660 --> 03:10:19,920
to

13280
03:10:19,920 --> 03:10:20,400
manage

13281
03:10:20,400 --> 03:10:20,780
things

13282
03:10:20,780 --> 03:10:21,280
and

13283
03:10:21,280 --> 03:10:22,940
you're

13284
03:10:22,940 --> 03:10:23,640
well aware

13285
03:10:23,640 --> 03:10:24,400
of people

13286
03:10:24,400 --> 03:10:25,100
watching you

13287
03:10:25,100 --> 03:10:25,580
and so

13288
03:10:25,580 --> 03:10:25,840
forth

13289
03:10:25,840 --> 03:10:27,400
and that's

13290
03:10:27,400 --> 03:10:27,620
been true

13291
03:10:27,620 --> 03:10:27,880
for a

13292
03:10:27,880 --> 03:10:28,100
while

13293
03:10:28,100 --> 03:10:28,440
I think

13294
03:10:28,440 --> 03:10:28,780
I'm reading

13295
03:10:28,780 --> 03:10:29,200
about it

13296
03:10:29,200 --> 03:10:29,780
it's been

13297
03:10:29,780 --> 03:10:30,280
true for at

13298
03:10:30,280 --> 03:10:31,280
least a

13299
03:10:31,280 --> 03:10:31,500
year

13300
03:10:31,500 --> 03:10:33,340
there's been

13301
03:10:33,340 --> 03:10:33,960
various times

13302
03:10:33,960 --> 03:10:36,480
one of our

13303
03:10:36,480 --> 03:10:37,740
people was

13304
03:10:37,740 --> 03:10:38,960
ambushed

13305
03:10:38,960 --> 03:10:39,400
by

13306
03:10:39,400 --> 03:10:41,720
the British

13307
03:10:41,720 --> 03:10:42,320
intelligence

13308
03:10:42,320 --> 03:10:42,580
in a

13309
03:10:42,580 --> 03:10:42,940
Luxembourg

13310
03:10:42,940 --> 03:10:43,540
car park

13311
03:10:43,540 --> 03:10:44,260
2008

13312
03:10:44,260 --> 03:10:45,380
early 2008

13313
03:10:45,380 --> 03:10:45,880
so that was

13314
03:10:45,880 --> 03:10:46,400
the first

13315
03:10:46,400 --> 03:10:49,600
concrete

13316
03:10:49,600 --> 03:10:51,180
they followed

13317
03:10:51,180 --> 03:10:51,860
him there

13318
03:10:51,860 --> 03:10:53,720
to a

13319
03:10:53,720 --> 03:10:54,180
supermarket

13320
03:10:54,180 --> 03:10:55,660
and when

13321
03:10:55,660 --> 03:10:56,000
he came

13322
03:10:56,000 --> 03:10:56,300
out of the

13323
03:10:56,300 --> 03:10:56,680
supermarket

13324
03:10:56,680 --> 03:10:57,620
waiting by

13325
03:10:57,620 --> 03:10:58,060
the car

13326
03:10:58,060 --> 03:10:59,560
and said

13327
03:10:59,560 --> 03:11:02,700
the man

13328
03:11:02,700 --> 03:11:02,980
in his

13329
03:11:02,980 --> 03:11:03,700
40s

13330
03:11:03,700 --> 03:11:05,320
nice watch

13331
03:11:05,320 --> 03:11:06,800
confident

13332
03:11:06,800 --> 03:11:07,440
tall

13333
03:11:07,440 --> 03:11:08,920
James Bond

13334
03:11:08,920 --> 03:11:10,740
very

13335
03:11:10,740 --> 03:11:11,420
stereotypes

13336
03:11:11,420 --> 03:11:12,140
character

13337
03:11:12,140 --> 03:11:12,880
good shoes

13338
03:11:12,880 --> 03:11:16,020
and started

13339
03:11:16,020 --> 03:11:16,260
to ask

13340
03:11:16,260 --> 03:11:16,680
questions

13341
03:11:16,680 --> 03:11:16,940
about

13342
03:11:16,940 --> 03:11:17,560
Helix

13343
03:11:17,560 --> 03:11:17,960
and me

13344
03:11:17,960 --> 03:11:18,720
and told

13345
03:11:18,720 --> 03:11:18,960
him it

13346
03:11:18,960 --> 03:11:19,280
would be

13347
03:11:19,280 --> 03:11:19,600
in his

13348
03:11:19,600 --> 03:11:19,900
interest

13349
03:11:19,900 --> 03:11:20,220
to come

13350
03:11:20,220 --> 03:11:20,480
and have

13351
03:11:20,480 --> 03:11:21,580
a cup

13352
03:11:21,580 --> 03:11:22,040
of coffee

13353
03:11:22,040 --> 03:11:24,780
about things

13354
03:11:24,780 --> 03:11:25,740
but it was a

13355
03:11:25,740 --> 03:11:26,600
clear threat

13356
03:11:26,600 --> 03:11:27,080
that it was a

13357
03:11:27,080 --> 03:11:27,460
supermarket

13358
03:11:27,460 --> 03:11:28,640
car park

13359
03:11:28,640 --> 03:11:29,180
and he could

13360
03:11:29,180 --> 03:11:29,460
have made

13361
03:11:29,460 --> 03:11:29,980
that approach

13362
03:11:29,980 --> 03:11:30,740
somewhere else

13363
03:11:30,740 --> 03:11:31,540
it was made

13364
03:11:31,540 --> 03:11:31,780
in the

13365
03:11:31,780 --> 03:11:32,280
car park

13366
03:11:32,280 --> 03:11:33,000
in the

13367
03:11:33,000 --> 03:11:33,480
supermarket

13368
03:11:33,480 --> 03:11:35,100
do you

13369
03:11:35,100 --> 03:11:35,460
identify

13370
03:11:35,460 --> 03:11:35,780
himself

13371
03:11:35,780 --> 03:11:35,900
as

13372
03:11:35,900 --> 03:11:36,120
British

13373
03:11:36,120 --> 03:11:36,220
and

13374
03:11:36,220 --> 03:11:36,480
Tumsl

13375
03:11:36,480 --> 03:11:36,760
no

13376
03:11:36,760 --> 03:11:38,800
yes

13377
03:11:38,800 --> 03:11:40,420
there's no

13378
03:11:40,420 --> 03:11:40,780
one else

13379
03:11:40,780 --> 03:11:41,300
like that

13380
03:11:41,300 --> 03:11:41,500
who would

13381
03:11:41,500 --> 03:11:41,900
be interested

13382
03:11:41,900 --> 03:11:44,560
and he

13383
03:11:44,560 --> 03:11:45,240
was told

13384
03:11:45,240 --> 03:11:48,600
by our

13385
03:11:48,600 --> 03:11:48,880
guy

13386
03:11:48,880 --> 03:11:49,540
that our

13387
03:11:49,540 --> 03:11:50,060
guy wasn't

13388
03:11:50,060 --> 03:11:50,400
interested

13389
03:11:50,400 --> 03:11:50,780
in me

13390
03:11:50,780 --> 03:11:52,860
see you

13391
03:11:52,860 --> 03:11:53,080
later

13392
03:11:53,080 --> 03:11:56,140
sorry

13393
03:11:56,140 --> 03:11:56,520
buddy

13394
03:11:56,520 --> 03:12:02,580
how do

13395
03:12:02,580 --> 03:12:02,940
we get

13396
03:12:02,940 --> 03:12:03,520
the beginning

13397
03:12:03,520 --> 03:12:04,060
part of

13398
03:12:04,060 --> 03:12:04,440
what you

13399
03:12:04,440 --> 03:12:04,840
have on

13400
03:12:04,840 --> 03:12:05,040
tape

13401
03:12:05,040 --> 03:12:05,200
to

13402
03:12:05,200 --> 03:12:05,660
transcribe

13403
03:12:05,660 --> 03:12:06,220
how would

13404
03:12:06,220 --> 03:12:06,480
you like

13405
03:12:06,480 --> 03:12:06,680
us to

13406
03:12:06,680 --> 03:12:07,380
do you

13407
03:12:07,380 --> 03:12:08,560
want

13408
03:12:08,560 --> 03:12:08,780
to

13409
03:12:08,780 --> 03:12:09,540
how should

13410
03:12:09,540 --> 03:12:09,760
we

13411
03:12:09,760 --> 03:12:10,120
because

13412
03:12:10,120 --> 03:12:10,880
he was

13413
03:12:10,880 --> 03:12:11,120
kind

13414
03:12:11,120 --> 03:12:11,400
enough

13415
03:12:11,400 --> 03:12:11,780
hey we

13416
03:12:11,780 --> 03:12:11,940
should

13417
03:12:11,940 --> 03:12:12,220
give it

13418
03:12:12,220 --> 03:12:12,460
to you

13419
03:12:12,460 --> 03:12:13,360
we might

13420
03:12:13,360 --> 03:12:13,600
give it

13421
03:12:13,600 --> 03:12:13,820
to you

13422
03:12:13,820 --> 03:12:14,060
now

13423
03:12:14,060 --> 03:12:15,220
if you

13424
03:12:15,220 --> 03:12:15,360
don't

13425
03:12:15,360 --> 03:12:15,520
mind

13426
03:12:15,520 --> 03:12:15,820
then we'll

13427
03:12:15,820 --> 03:12:16,140
transcribe

13428
03:12:16,140 --> 03:12:16,420
and send

13429
03:12:16,420 --> 03:12:16,600
it all

13430
03:12:16,600 --> 03:12:16,800
back

13431
03:12:16,800 --> 03:12:17,140
to you

13432
03:12:17,140 --> 03:12:18,500
can we

13433
03:12:18,500 --> 03:12:18,660
just

13434
03:12:18,660 --> 03:12:21,100
yeah

13435
03:12:21,100 --> 03:12:23,280
is that

13436
03:12:23,280 --> 03:12:23,880
safe

13437
03:12:23,880 --> 03:12:24,940
that

13438
03:12:24,940 --> 03:12:27,840
is

13439
03:12:27,840 --> 03:12:28,420
taking

13440
03:12:28,420 --> 03:12:30,340
to you

13441
03:12:30,340 --> 03:12:31,920
to

13442
03:12:31,920 --> 03:12:33,580
what

13443
03:12:33,580 --> 03:12:34,640
we

13444
03:12:34,640 --> 03:12:35,140
want

13445
03:12:35,140 --> 03:12:35,740
to

13446
03:12:35,740 --> 03:12:36,920
do

13447
03:12:36,920 --> 03:12:38,800
good

13448
03:12:38,800 --> 03:12:39,760
to

13449
03:12:39,760 --> 03:12:40,780
we

13450
03:12:42,780 --> 03:12:44,880
come

13451
03:12:44,880 --> 03:12:45,720
and

13452
03:12:47,720 --> 03:12:49,860
in

13453
03:12:49,860 --> 03:12:51,900
way

13454
03:12:52,620 --> 03:12:53,620
to