1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,000 So I say, okay, what is your relationship with your life and the life of your life? 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,000 A planned parent or doctor discusses getting money for tissue from a board of feeders. 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,000 Secretly recorded heavily edited videos to make outrageous claims. 4 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:28,000 Two-arch County medical companies are facing charges of selling, 5 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,000 failing, fetal tissue, illegal. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,000 The tissue is donated from a board of feeders' new plan. 7 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,000 Here in Tune in other facility, if I have parenthood is now under federal investigation 8 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:40,000 by the Department of Justice for selling, fetal body parts. 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,000 Critics say that it's an ethical to use the material 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,000 and that taxpayer money should not be used for research that relies on abortion. 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:52,000 Washington Post-Con's Michael Gerson has pointed out the charging of fee for this material. 12 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:57,000 It's not a fee. It's actually just the cost of transmitting this material. 13 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:03,000 The reason why I'm not doing this is because I'm not doing this. 14 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:22,000 When the videos were released, plan parenthood denied selling body parts. 15 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:28,000 We thought they might do this, so before the video release, we emailed plan parenthood Gulf Coast 16 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:35,000 and Center Cover contract for $750 per fetal liver, $1600 for liver thymus pairs. 17 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Plan parenthood told Congress they rebuffed the deal, and the New York Times reported 18 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,000 plan parenthood's assurances that the affiliate declined. 19 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:48,000 But now, we know that plan parenthood lied to Congress and to the media, 20 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:54,000 because of the documents and testimony of tramwine plan parenthood Gulf Coast's abortion center director. 21 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:59,000 It's an email from Robert Sarkas to the list of federal and copies of new and other people. 22 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:11,000 Data from June 30, 2015, and it attaches in agreement between biomass and land parenthood Gulf Coast. 23 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:19,000 If you just turn to the last page of the document, it says that the fee to plan parenthood Gulf Coast for a fetal liver, 24 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:27,000 $750 in the fee for fetal liver and thymus would be $1600. 25 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:39,000 This is an email chain between you and do 1912, who is the regional medical and surgical services director. 26 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,000 We understand his diet and santo, so that you're understanding. 27 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:47,000 If you say F. We are F. We are still trying to move forward with this. 28 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:51,000 She responds to you and says, do you want to do this? 29 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:56,000 You respond to her and say, yes, ma'am. Do you remember that exchange? 30 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,000 Got until yesterday. 31 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:05,000 So you wanted to move forward with the contract we just saw those price terms. 32 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,000 Check out this contract. 33 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,000 You scared you. I said sorry. 34 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,000 Babe. 35 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,000 I know I wanted to move forward with it. 36 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,000 Is there anything in writing that says that you didn't agree with the compensation? 37 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,000 Injection, vague. 38 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,000 No. 39 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:26,000 It's a federal crime to trade fetal tissue in exchange for valuable consideration. 40 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:31,000 Vable consideration means the benefits exchange and transaction, also called a quid pro quo, 41 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,000 which means in Latin one thing for that other thing. 42 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,000 It's an intentionally broad term for any measurable exchange. 43 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,000 The law means that if human fetal organs are tissue are being exchanged as the quid pro quo, 44 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,000 or the pivot of value in a transaction. 45 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,000 It is an illegal transfer of fetal tissue. 46 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:54,000 This law makes sense because paying for something is a financial incentive to make more of it, 47 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:58,000 and you can only get body parts by taking them out of another human being. 48 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:03,000 So the purpose of law is against trading valuable consideration for body parts 49 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,000 is to stop any financial incentives to turn a human being into a commodity. 50 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,000 Vable consideration is not strictly about profit or reimbursement. 51 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,000 It's about keeping any market forces away from organ donation period. 52 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:23,000 This is crucial in the context of abortion, where a pregnant woman is free to choose only up until the moment the fetus dies, 53 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,000 and then the choice becomes irreversible. 54 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,000 Democrat Henry Waxman, the author of the fetal tissue law, explained it this way. 55 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:38,000 The cement that I'm offering in the nature of a substitute would enact the most important safeguards, 56 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:43,000 and those are the safeguards to prevent any sale of fetal tissue for any purpose. 57 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:48,000 It would be a pour into a loud sale, and a market to be created for that sale. 58 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,000 Representative Waxman later said, 59 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,000 Any price is unreasonable and illegal under this law. 60 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:59,000 But Plan Perrinhood's own documents show that market demand for body parts was the driving force 61 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000 in their fetal tissue deals. 62 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:09,000 Emails from the biggest plan perinet affiliate in the country plan perinet Marmante show how they switched from selling body parts to advanced bioscience resources, 63 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:16,000 and partnered with stem express instead, because stem express offered a larger market and therefore more money to plan perinhood. 64 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:24,000 In June 2010, the research director for Plan Perrinet Marmante writes to plan perinet Marmante's medical director, Dr. Dorothy Ferguson, 65 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:30,000 complaining that ABR has only shut up on Tuesdays a couple of times in the last month or two. 66 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:36,000 In fact, the last invoice I sent to ABR was for two samples collected in April at the Sacramento Abortion Clinic. 67 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:43,000 The research director says that Kate Dyer from stem express could really use Tuesday and Friday at the Sacramento B Street Clinic. 68 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:47,000 Her business is starting to take off, which is good for her and us as well. 69 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,000 This might be a good time to think about severing our relationship with ABR. 70 00:05:52,000 --> 00:06:03,000 Sure enough, a few days later, Dr. Ferguson wrote back that Marmante would be terminating their contract with ABR, giving stem express expanded exclusive access to the abortion clinics. 71 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,000 Watch what Dr. Ferguson said when confronted with these emails under oath. 72 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:20,000 You know, if there's any discussion about whether or not stem express would send technicians to PPMM health centers on more days a week than ABR would have been doing at that time. 73 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:35,000 I think that that's true, that it seemed that stem X was working with more researchers perhaps than ABR was. 74 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:47,000 If stem express determined that a particular sample was not usable would PPMM still get the $55 reimbursed for that sample. 75 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,000 That's another important admission. 76 00:06:50,000 --> 00:07:04,000 Plan Parenthood is tried to say that they were only getting reimbursement for vague costs, but the stem express contract conditions the payment specifically on stem express being able to harvest usable body parts inside plant parenthood Marmante. 77 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:13,000 It's true the law allows reimbursements for specific costs when donating fetal organs for free, but there are two requirements in this limited exception. 78 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:21,000 Number one, the payments have to be reasonable reimbursements, and number two, they have to be associated with these specific costs. 79 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:32,000 Plan Parenthood didn't do any transportation, implantation, processing, preservation, quality control or storage of the fresh body parts they sold the stem express. 80 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,000 That was stem express's shot. 81 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:39,000 And the payments were totally disconnected from any actual costs. 82 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,000 They were only associated with the Markable Body Parts for stem express. 83 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:50,000 That means no matter what kind of costs plan parenthood ever had, and there is no evidence they had any that were legal. 84 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:56,000 Plan Parenthood was only paid and incentivized for the number of body parts that stem express could market. 85 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:02,000 Again though, a PPMM and ORED reimbursed if a sample was actually usable is that correct? 86 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:03,000 Yes. 87 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:18,000 So what have been in PPMM's best interest in seeking to recoup its costs if they try to maximize the number of useful samples? 88 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,000 Direction, bake, cost of speculation. 89 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:39,000 In our mission to support medical research, it would be we would have liked to provide usable samples to further medical research. 90 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:50,000 $55 per usable body part plus $10 for an accompanying blood sample might not seem like a lot of money, although people go to jail for selling illegal drugs for less. 91 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:58,000 But when you consider plant parenthood in Marmonte does $17,000 abortions a year, that cumulative $65 fee adds up quickly. 92 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:06,000 Clinic owners told us undercover that they were looking at numbers of up to a quarter million dollars a year from selling body parts to stem express. 93 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:15,000 But under oath, plant parenthood and fuel trafficking witnesses have been conspicuously silent about the total amount of money they were able to achieve under these contracts. 94 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:21,000 Has she ever conveyed to you that they are projecting $250,000 in revenue from people to issue sales to stem express? 95 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,000 Don't answer that question. 96 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,000 Had a nap conference? 97 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,000 Do not answer that question. 98 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:37,000 Had you discussed projected revenues abortion clinics can expect as a result of working with ABR at nap conferences? 99 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,000 And you are instructed not to answer that question. 100 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:50,000 But these invoices sent from plant parenthood Marmonte to stem express show plant parenthood making over five figure sums for just one month of body parts of mind. 101 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:58,000 It's no wonder stem express advertised a financial benefit and fiscal rewards to clinics who would open their doors to its harvesting team. 102 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:07,000 On the first page of this pamphlet, this has a clinic in advance, medical, biomedical research. 103 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,000 And as the bullet point this has financially profitable. 104 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:24,000 Did you understand that they were going to use this brochure or posture with your vote in order to speak to a paying more potential sources of the petition? 105 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,000 Objection in my foundation and cost risk speculation. 106 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:33,000 Yes, I understood that that's what they were trying to do. 107 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,000 Plan parenthood national knew that deals like this were going on. 108 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:49,000 They had a special top level meeting about it in early 2011 involving top lawyer Roger Evans, the PPAFA research department and doctor Debra Nicaritaola, the top abortion doctor. 109 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:54,000 Do you remember any affiliates telling you directly which tissue recommendations they were in for? 110 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,000 I do. 111 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,000 What are your thoughts? 112 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,000 I remember the affiliate which was called Shasta Pacific at the time. 113 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:06,000 Sending an email to medical services telling us they were working with stem express. 114 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,000 What was said in that email to the best of your memory? 115 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:18,000 I don't remember the exact email but from my recollection that just if it was they wanted us to know that they were working with stem express and thought that they were. 116 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:25,000 It was a good relationship and wanted to know if there was a way to what other folks had about the opportunity. 117 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:34,000 PPAFA's discussions about affiliates getting paid for fetal tissue in early 2011 led to the reissurance of a 10 year old memo about the federal law. 118 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:39,000 Get PPAFA will fully turn to blind eye to whether or not affiliates followed the memo. 119 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,000 I did you find out that LA and my Monteverdiate payments. 120 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:48,000 Because when the whole video thing happened, everybody started. 121 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,000 I don't know. 122 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Assessing the situation I guess is just like that. 123 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:58,000 So before the whole video thing, you had no knowledge that those two filates were receiving payments for fetal tissue. 124 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,000 I knew LA was getting payments because I was a provider there. 125 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:07,000 Did you ever follow up with them to ensure that they comply with the guidance from PPAFA? 126 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,000 Casted it. 127 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:10,000 I did not. 128 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,000 Why not? 129 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,000 Casted it. 130 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,000 I'm not sure why I would need to. 131 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,000 So this guidance was coming out from PPAFA. 132 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:26,000 You happened to work at one of the affiliates and they happened to have a fetal tissue donation program. 133 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:32,000 You happened to be privy to all these guidelines that are being issued and memos that are being issued. 134 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:41,000 I would that's why I'm asking if you followed up with the affiliate that you were working with to make sure they were compliant with PPAFA's guidance. 135 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,000 But I missed the record as to the chronology. 136 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Asked any answered last one, did you? 137 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:55,000 Okay, so I have a two-part answer for you number one. 138 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:59,000 I don't know when the PPAFA started participating in this program. 139 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,000 So I couldn't tell you the dates. 140 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:08,000 So I don't know that they were necessarily doing it when this memo was resurculated number one. 141 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:16,000 Number two, I assume that the medical leadership at the affiliate had a taken care of. 142 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,000 Who was the medical leadership at the affiliate? 143 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:33,000 I can tell you the medical director is I can't tell you the whole team, but the medical director was married counter. 144 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:38,000 I was approached by representatives of Nobel Genics. 145 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:44,000 I had been involved as we discussed in tissue programs before. 146 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:51,000 I obtained a waiver from PPAFA to start this program and that's how we started. 147 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,000 Was no Virginia a not-for-profit or a for-profit? 148 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,000 I believe it was a for-profit. 149 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:09,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 150 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:14,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 151 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 152 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:23,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 153 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 154 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:32,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 155 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 156 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:42,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 157 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:47,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 158 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:51,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit. 159 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:56,000 I believe that the medical director was a for-profit.