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What are you gonna do?

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A big two-shadow, paid a parwin.

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They're upright in this country.

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Who you believe too, but what buried it?

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Hell yeah, I know.

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What hell do you know?

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You're the one who ordered it to be leveled.

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Music

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My name's Bill Malame, and I'm a documentary filmmaker and also a victim of institutional child abuse.

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We've been in the care system, the government care system, if you like.

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And today I'm going to be in the care system, the high call, the crispy and crispy.

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So you all into who you are.

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Yeah, I am the former adult advisor to the National Association of Young People in Care, which was a group made up with kids in the care system around the country.

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And I was there and I was up until about 1992.

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And what are we gonna be talking about today, Chris?

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Paul, where do you want to start up, Bill?

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Well, the main subject is, like, Hell and Gestance House House House House.

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Okay, so you can get off, you tell me all about Hell and Gestance House.

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Uh, it first came about when we were approached by a woman called Dr. Adeline Stopp, who was a Consumptuous psychiatrist and the mortuary hospital.

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And she asked us, would we, does he say a thing to us?

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Yes, he said that he's a land of what we talked to a patient with hers whose name is Carol Casier.

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And her, the story being, some that been taken off her and put into care, and she hadn't been allowed access to it.

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When we eventually took to Corrupt as a her, we found out she was the owner of a guest house in Barnes in South East London from about 1977 until 1982, when it was closed, following a police raid.

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And that guest house was, and guest house.

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Now, in Barnes's, yes, South West London.

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Now, according to Carol Casier, the raid had been carried out by Special Branch, with the only did the SPG, which is the Special Patrol group.

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What was it, right, in Chris?

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Well, that's, we never actually found out the reason for that, because as I said, Carol Casier backed up by a family and a serviced of maintain that the raid was carried out under the production of terrorism act.

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In 1976, right, in 1976 act, which means it was a security matter and the involvement of the security services.

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However, on the other side, the police and the authorities always maintained that the raid was carried out in response to complaints from neighbours under vice legislation.

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So, the police, on one hand, saying it was, they were raiding it because it was being used as a brothel.

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And on the other hand, you have to see this, plus they're always in it for the years, saying that the raid had under the prevention of terrorism act.

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It's the only law that was around then, where the police could stop you seeing a solicitor for up to 36 hours.

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So, they could all do in custody.

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And I don't even see it, but Carol Casier was in fact the owner of the investigation.

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So, it's been a raid.

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They've given her what's called a notice to detain persons under the act, which says you're not allowed contact with anybody, even a solicitor.

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Now, that was the only piece of evidence that existed back in 1999, regarding the raid.

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There were no records, so they gave to them all this.

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They did it, but the question then becomes, why would they be raiding what a guest house that was being used as brothel under prevention of terrorism act?

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So, then that's when it started to become really, really dodgy, because very, very soon we discovered who some of these patrons of this brothel were.

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And they were very, very people.

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Very, a politician, a film stars, entertainers.

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And there was also a thing that we became aware of very, very quickly.

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One of the people who used that guest house was in fact, Lentany Blant.

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Lentany Blant was disgraced by who had been spying for the KB KGB for years.

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The Russians that they'd given him a free pardon and given him a job as head of the Queen's pictures.

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Now, Blant, we, and that very quickly noticed a people like Commander Richard Srestra, who was the head of the Royal Protection Squad.

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It was a guy called Rich Namedly, who was a senior-rated Buck in in Panis.

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There was a guy called Paul Hendry, who was a Commander of Special Branch, and now Special Branch itself.

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It's no longer in existence. It's the anti-terrorism squad today, but back then, they were the people who used to do the majority were for my fight.

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Right, so we talked about, now, the MI-5 was in Roles.

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They had to be, because Special Branch were the people who did all the arrests on behalf of MI-5, they were the ones who came.

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What we're saying here is that it was the terrorism act, which was used because there were politicians, and all these important people involved.

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And so the police will tell, by secret services, that's it.

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Yeah, that's why I was going to say you have to remember what Named Pick was about.

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It was about young people in care, and our job really was to ensure that the kids had the right complaint to have their complaints taken serious and to be properly invested.

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It's going to be the local authority and the people whatever.

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Very soon after Carole Pazilla came to see us.

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We were approached by a number of young people who had been in the care of rich and cow and so on.

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What we're getting at here really is that the kids, well, Elm Gesshaus was a child brothel.

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Yes, it was. That's what it was.

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So now we're talking about where the kids came from.

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It had been opened as a gay guest house, but very quickly turned into a brothel.

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I want to ask you a question about that.

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So perhaps the gay guest house was in the cover for it.

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The sequence of events was that the abuse had started.

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What had happened in 1977, the Silver Jubilee?

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They started events which they caught kids and the Queens parties.

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Now these kids and Queens parties would be politicians, pop stars, whatever.

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Where they would dress up in city outfits.

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Kids and Queens.

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Because it was gay, they would dress up as women and whatever.

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When you were saying it happened at the start, the jewelry.

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That's very quickly became a regular event.

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So the Kings and Queens parties are now.

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What would they exactly?

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Before you get to the you've got the member of what night people are.

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We've got about kids. We've not about investigating politicians or doing the work at the police.

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What was night pixel info?

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National Association of Young People and Care.

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It was about kids in care.

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So if you're going to do it, if you're going to provide boys, that had to be organised.

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And run by somebody within the care system, within Richmond Council.

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Somebody was grooming and providing these boys to the Young Guest house.

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So we've very quickly got on.

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So the entire ring seemed to be centered around grafting clothes children's home.

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Where the officer in charge was no call, meal, care.

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And his deputy was the guy who's just been arrested.

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John's sting more.

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So they were a toddler, kids were in charge of their kids home.

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And they were the ones who were not just...

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Was it just a boy's home?

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Was it was just a boy's home?

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Oh, golden.

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But they were sectioned, abused, in the boys and grooming them and providing them for sex.

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So if I can just interrupt your Chris, we've got Elonguez house,

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Keynes and Queens party, a guy, a guy, a guy party place really.

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That's what they did. That's what he did. That's what he did.

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So they got for the boys. They're not interested in the girls.

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So we're talking about all these guys that went there.

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We're going.

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Exactly.

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And it very quickly became apparent that the people in charge of grafting were providing boys for

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Paul videos and for porn photographs, CSO type photographs.

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Elonguez house.

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No, no.

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At grafting and to other quite well-known, local people in political circles in ones with and rich men.

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So they were sitting in the kids' air, so that the kids could be film, porn graphic films.

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What did I want to do?

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And again, I've liked the stress that these are very vulnerable children.

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Oh, yeah.

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And sort of 99.9% of them from the lower classes.

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I mean, okay.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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And so you had people like Tom Nassmith, who is director of education from...

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...For once with...

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...Stinge-Morning, always to him at 20 pound a time.

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No, for more videos.

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Yeah.

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So then when it comes to our own guest house...

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...In our own guest house...

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...you had what was what were known as the facilities.

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Now, the facilities were a sauna room...

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...and what was called...

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...grandly called...

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...of the Dio Conference facility.

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But we're talking ninety-nighty.

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Well, in the solar...

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...in the...

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...in the...

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...Long guest house, he had a sauna...

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...and you had a video conference facility.

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But very mind-if he wanted to do a video conference in 1980.

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He did a...

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...lucky great bit, BBC, very excited.

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He had a huge...

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...sat-lucky dish.

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So it was rubbish.

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Mm-hmm.

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It was basically...

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...a VHS video called a camera...

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...and a bits of ESA.

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That was the video.

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There were film on the kids.

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Whatever they were doing to the kids...

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...they were filming the kids.

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So they made that...

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...a side from that they were...

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...to now later they were too lots of...

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...things there where they...

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...photo graphs and videos that were made in the video...

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...conference for certainties...

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...which were being professionally edited...

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...distributed to whoever buys this sort of stunt.

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But there were also photographs being taken...

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...by characters there, herself...

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...of the Kings and Queens parts.

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So a carol-cazilla...

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...carol-cazilla...

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...was taking their own pictures as well.

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...of their own pictures.

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If you like for a photo album...

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...yeah.

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...because she always presented herself as being a victim.

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She was the victim in all this.

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She'd been taken and found the job...

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...by all these nasty people.

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The reality was that...

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...calling, cold, calculating woman...

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...she knew exactly what had been going on in her guest house...

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...and she was quite happy to profit from it.

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And now very mind you're talking about...

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...a small guest house in South Wales London...

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...in 1980.

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I know from looking at a book...

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...so I still got copies of the pay in slips and all that.

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That guest house was turning over about 10,000 per month.

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And what you use is, again?

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This is 1980.

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And that was quite a lot of money.

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I mean, that would be the equivalent of a guest house...

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...to take any more 50, 60,000 per month.

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Well, let's just give the audience...

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...the full flavour of the guest house.

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So this was a brothel...

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...and they were making films of what they were doing to the kids.

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Yeah.

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And now you give us some of the names...

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...who used to go to...

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...they were also providing kids.

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So some of the people that I used to go there...

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...would people like Harvey Potter...

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...who was a senior in Tory MP.

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He was later a few years after...

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...and guest house he was later convicted for sexual offenses...

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...against boys.

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You had people like Leon Brin...

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...who at the time, I think, was a...

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...secretary estate for trade and industry...

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...but then became homesick a tree.

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You had civil smith MP...

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...who was there.

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You had people like Collie Jordan...

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...who was the leader of the National Front...

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...who was a very close friend of Harvey Potter...

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...now those two in particular were into...

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...really nasty end all.

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Well, if I was just...

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...I remember seeing an interview...

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...with David Still, member of Parliament...

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...and he was being questioned about...

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...the guy who just talked about...

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...salesmith.

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And he said, for God's sake...

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...I don't know what was the fuss about...

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...all he was doing was smacking a few boys' bottles.

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Yeah, but he said that.

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David Still actually said that.

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And he said it in an interview.

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So it was the arrogance of these people.

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It's so rare.

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He wasn't just smacking bottles.

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What we're talking about is taking whips...

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...and cames...

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...to the bottom ten and eleven and twelve year old boys.

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This wasn't anything about...

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...this wasn't 1819-20...

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...while he was doing what they were doing...

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...or what they were doing for money.

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These were children who were being exploited...

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...on this place.

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People like themselves...

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...mitting to exactly what they were doing.

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Also, you know, telling me about...

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...the night of the ride...

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...they took...

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...calcazier's son...

242
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...how old was he?

243
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,000
He was ten.

244
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,000
He was only ten.

245
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:49,000

246
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,000
And...

247
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:51,000
...tell that story.

248
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,000
Right.

249
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000
Well, I mean, for a start...

250
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,000
...the ride itself was like something...

251
00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,000
...out of keystone cops.

252
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,000
You had two undercover police officers...

253
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,000
...who had been there for three days prior to the ride.

254
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:06,000
Yeah.

255
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,000
One of them actually had his...

256
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,000
...a plaster cast on his arm and a slink.

257
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,000
With a white-revine for a minute...

258
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,000
...which didn't work.

259
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,000
So he couldn't ever give the signal for the ride to take place.

260
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:20,000
Because it wasn't working.

261
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,000
You had neighbors bringing Richmond police station...

262
00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,000
...complaining about men up in trees...

263
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,000
...which turned out to be special branch officers...

264
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,000
...keep in place under up-sadation.

265
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000
Yeah.

266
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,000
So I mean, it really was quite a partial performance.

267
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,000
But the thing is...

268
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,000
...they took care of Caesier's son...

269
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,000
...into 10 years of age.

270
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000
One small important point.

271
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,000
It was only five guests actually had to guess.

272
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,000
...tells.

273
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,000
Because the day before...

274
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,000
...Carril had been warned that the ride was coming...

275
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,000
...by a man called Gary Walker.

276
00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:02,000
Now, Gary Walker was a senior member of Shin Paine, IRA.

277
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,000
Now, if you're talking 1982, London...

278
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,000
...that's a height of the bombing campaign...

279
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,000
...that a senior member of Shin Paine IRA...

280
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,000
...is walking around London...

281
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,000
...and observed unchallenged.

282
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,000
Don't you all guess, Gary?

283
00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,000
As a meeting people like Leon Britton.

284
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,000
Exactly.

285
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,000
For God's sake, so we've got Shin Paine...

286
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,000
...some meeting Leon Britton.

287
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,000
Well, El Guestas, where they would do...

288
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,000
...in which makes it...

289
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,000
...as you can appreciate.

290
00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:33,000
Once you get somebody like him in there...

291
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,000
...this is not a local viceroy.

292
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,000
You cannot tell me that somebody like Walker...

293
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,000
...would be walking around London...

294
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000
...without being closely followed by a special branch...

295
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,000
...or in my fight.

296
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,000
He warned Gary Walker to see the day before the raid...

297
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,000
...so he knew...

298
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:50,000
...walking you...

299
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,000
...Shin Paine...

300
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,000
...that the raid was going to take place.

301
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,000
And after the raid had happened...

302
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,000
...and the casiers were on bail...

303
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,000
...Walker offered to provide...

304
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,000
...carol and a family with false birth certificates...

305
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,000
...fals, passports and get them out of the country.

306
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,000
So it wasn't just a local viceroy.

307
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:13,000
That's the point I'm trying to make.

308
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:14,000
Yeah.

309
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,000
Let's just go back to the kid...

310
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,000
...her 10-year-old boy...

311
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,000
...being taking the care of where they put here...

312
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:21,000
...on the night of the raid.

313
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,000
I'll meet him.

314
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,000
Now, that...

315
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,000
...this is where the whole team...

316
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,000
...bearing mine by the fashion myself.

317
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,000
I was a residential social worker...

318
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,000
...which I liked it for a living.

319
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,000
So if I understand anything at all...

320
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,000
...I don't understand how the social services system were...

321
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,000
...I knew how things were done.

322
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,000
...whom's it got.

323
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,000
...whom's it got.

324
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:44,000
...whom's it got.

325
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,000
...whom's it got.

326
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:46,000
...whom's it got.

327
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,000
...whom's it got.

328
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,000
Now, when the police...

329
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,000
...because they thought...

330
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,000
...they knew that carol-pissiers...

331
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,000
...some area was 10...

332
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,000
...was living there.

333
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:57,000
They also suspected...

334
00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,000
...and their own words...

335
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:02,000
...that other children might be present.

336
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,000
They approached Richmond Social Services...

337
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,000
...told them about the raid.

338
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,000
Now, procedure dictates...

339
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,000
...that normally you would have got...

340
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,000
...say they don't call field...

341
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:14,000
...social worker...

342
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,000
...in the local office...

343
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,000
...who would have accompanied the police...

344
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,000
...on the raid...

345
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:20,000
...any children present...

346
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,000
...they would have taken...

347
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,000
...they would have taken them into care.

348
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,000
...however on the day of the raid...

349
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,000
...the man from Richmond Council...

350
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,000
...who was on the raid with the police...

351
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,000
...was kneel care...

352
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:38,000
...the officer in charge at Grafter...

353
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,000
...who took Eric into care.

354
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,000
That's her son, Eric.

355
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:43,000
That's her son, Eric.

356
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000
So, she knows the main bridge.

357
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,000
She knows all the kids were coming...

358
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000
...and this children's home...

359
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,000
...and in what they've done on the night of night...

360
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,000
...they took her own soul...

361
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,000
...and she's all around the zone in that children's home.

362
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,000
But with the very guy...

363
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,000
...who'd be one of the people supplied in the police...

364
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,000
...so Carol knew...

365
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,000
...full of what was going to happen to her boy.

366
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,000
But...

367
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,000
...wasn't it the case that Carol Cousilla...

368
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,000
...also allowed her unsold...

369
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000
...to be abused by customers at Elngess House.

370
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,000
That was an allegation.

371
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,000
So, who made that allegation?

372
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,000
That was an allegation that were made by a number of people...

373
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,000
...we know that I'm certainly...

374
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,000
...that the newspaper reporters have said that.

375
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,000
But we never spoke to Eric.

376
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000
So, I cannot say...

377
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,000
...you know, because he's the victim.

378
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,000
But it was an allegation of any of us.

379
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,000
Certainly an allegation that you had.

380
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,000
I mean, Eric's grown up...

381
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,000
...in beta into say.

382
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:49,000
But I think you then get a picture of how big this scene was...

383
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,000
...when they just threw the rule book out...

384
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,000
...but when...

385
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,000
...and then once the raid had happened...

386
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,000
...it suddenly all became always just a local brothel...

387
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,000
...and I think to do his special branch...

388
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,000
...matching to do it in my fight...

389
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,000
...because they could effectively sign up Carol Cousilla.

390
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000
But I take on a son by putting him in Grafton.

391
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,000
Yeah, because she understood exactly what was...

392
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:18,000
...Grafton was one of many supermarkets.

393
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,000
Yeah, for children.

394
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:21,000
Yeah, exactly.

395
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,000
So, do what they want.

396
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,000
And one thing we never touched on...

397
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,000
...also in his videos, it was also a regular visit...

398
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,000
...and there.

399
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,000
And his name was David Hamilton Grant.

400
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:35,000
David Hamilton Grant was a child pornographer.

401
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:39,000
He made a child pornography and distributed it...

402
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:43,000
...disribut it and the possibility of snuff movies as well.

403
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,000
And the self-movies were...

404
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:50,000
...if they don't know, the kids being killed, tortured.

405
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,000
Yeah, but you need to understand where it starts from.

406
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,000
And we're talking about...

407
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,000
...if you're talking about the movies that were made in the...

408
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,000
...in the video conference facility...

409
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,000
...but you have to broaden it and understand the kids and the green buttons.

410
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,000
Now, most of the people who attended the Queens...

411
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,000
...Queens and Queen parties were from...

412
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,000
...organizations like the Mundik Club.

413
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Well, what was done under the club?

414
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Mundik Club was a right wing...

415
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:23,000
...tlawy party club for extreme right wing views.

416
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,000
And people like Harry Potter belong to it...

417
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,000
...all those sort of people belong to it.

418
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000
Now, one of the people who was involved with Carol Casier...

419
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000
...if you go back to prior to the raid...

420
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:39,000
...the evidence we've got in your digital lab...

421
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,000
...is the Mundik Club playing for a first in Catagoe...

422
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,000
...which was the main game newspaper in London.

423
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,000
Catagoe...

424
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,000
...or Catagoe...

425
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,000
...before the Angest House.

426
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,000
They were also playing for a first...

427
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,000
...to be put in a magazine called Spartacus.

428
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,000
Now, Spartacus was a magazine run by a man called John Stamford...

429
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,000
...who operated out of Holland.

430
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,000
Stamford ran a European-wide vice-rimming...

431
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,000
...of children.

432
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,000
He was a known Peter Files.

433
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:20,000
He was a known maker of very nasty child pornography.

434
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,000
It's all true.

435
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,000
When I say nasty, I'm talking about pornography...

436
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,000
...we've been two-year-olds in 18 months.

437
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,000
But you know, that was a kind of thing.

438
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,000
Yeah.

439
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000
So, you had...

440
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,000
...if you look at the photographs even today...

441
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,000
...in the press of the Angest House.

442
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,000
From the time, you'll see in the window...

443
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,000
...the doorway, a sign that says...

444
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,000
...Spartacus Club members, welcome.

445
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:45,000
Right.

446
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:49,000
So, Spartacus members got a 10% discount.

447
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,000
Now, one of the things Stamford did...

448
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,000
...with a man Peter...

449
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
...who was a man called Peter then Cross.

450
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,000
Peter playing Cross was the UK director of the Spartanus.

451
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,000
He ran the Spartacus organization over here.

452
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:08,000
He was very closely connected to the Mandik Club...

453
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:13,000
...a long with a guy called John Brug.

454
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,000
Well, the Mandik Club just in Angestus...

455
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,000
...all the other names.

456
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,000
...all that side.

457
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,000
It was a country-wide.

458
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000
It's the right room to talk about it.

459
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Yeah, right.

460
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,000
The club is actually...

461
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,000
...is in the House of Commons itself.

462
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,000
So, we're talking about all of them.

463
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,000
We're not just talking about Labour.

464
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:31,000
Yeah, no, no.

465
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,000
We're talking about the stories.

466
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,000
Yeah, what's all of them, buddy?

467
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,000
But you've got to remember that you have people like John Brug.

468
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:43,000
Now, the other people who paid for Advertis in the Spartacus magazine...

469
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,000
...and in Capital Gay...

470
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:50,000
...was a company called Roro Investment Limited.

471
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Now, Roro Investment Limited was run by John Brug's brother, Michael Brug.

472
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,000
He called himself Captain Paul Rionard...

473
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,000
...but he'd never been in the armed force.

474
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000
He'd just like to call himself a captain.

475
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:09,000
So, you have this whole organisation around the Angestus...

476
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,000
...so when you're talking about the nasty end of the snap movies...

477
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,000
...that was where Spartacus came in.

478
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,000
Now, so...

479
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,000
...what I would really want to understand, Chris...

480
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,000
...is we're not talking about...

481
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,000
...the sort of lower class ignorant people here.

482
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,000
We're talking about...

483
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,000
...we're educated individuals.

484
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,000
We're talking about people in very high-powerful...

485
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,000
...perdominant positions in all fields...

486
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:47,000
...we're going to have a doctors, psychiatists, police officers, army,...

487
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,000
...secret service, members of parliament...

488
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,000
...and of course the entertainment industry...

489
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,000
...who they seem to be putting up front at the moment...

490
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,000
...and giving us these pissy little wankers...

491
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,000
...like Michael Laville...

492
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,000
...who's name is Michael Trisman...

493
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:06,000
...Ternal...

494
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:07,000
...Ternal...

495
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000
...but you've got to remember the times.

496
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:11,000
But these are all people...

497
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,000
...you've got to still got to put it in context.

498
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,000
The context of the time was...

499
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:20,000
...you had genuine gay organisations...

500
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,000
...who were campaigning for gay rights...

501
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,000
...but they had been totally infiltrated by Peter Pard.

502
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,000
...but people...

503
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,000
...so you had the Peter Pard information...

504
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,000
...it changed the infamous Pard.

505
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000
They had totally infiltrated groups...

506
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000
...like the campaigning for homosexuality...

507
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,000
...the conservative group...

508
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,000
...campagne for homosexuality...

509
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,000
...algo...

510
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,000
...even what's now liberty.

511
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,000
So you had all these people...

512
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,000
...who were campaigning for gay rights...

513
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,000
...also campaigning to have Peter Pard's...

514
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,000
...also treated as a press minority.

515
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,000
Yeah, so why is it almost as victim?

516
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,000
Almost as victim as a victim.

517
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,000
It's a victim that suddenly sold themselves...

518
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,000
...and victims of this.

519
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,000
So you had these people...

520
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,000
...within all these organisations...

521
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,000
...they've done very, very clever...

522
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,000
...and as you say most of them were...

523
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:19,000
...welding...

524
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:20,000
...untaturable.

525
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,000
Oh, not with them.

526
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,000
But, Katie, if I could say...

527
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,000
...I could say...

528
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,000
...I could pick back...

529
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,000
...and then on little things, so I guess...

530
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,000
...but what it is is...

531
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,000
...for a grown man to penetrate...

532
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000
...a newborn baby...

533
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,000
...and possibly whatever...

534
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,000
...that the audience they can't get there...

535
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,000
...to make a film...

536
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000
...where you kill a child, torture a child...

537
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000
...where it's a baby...

538
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000
...where children...

539
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,000
...and to make a film...

540
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000
...of the torture...

541
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,000
...the face...

542
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,000
...because they're not expressions on the face...

543
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,000
...to scream in a decade...

544
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,000
...it's...

545
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,000
...what kind of people are these.

546
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,000
These are people who want to make people...

547
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,000
...running society, running through...

548
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,000
...has only done how to live...

549
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,000
...how to ask...

550
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,000
...how to fucking live...

551
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:13,000
...sorry about that.

552
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:14,000
...and then you get angry on it.

553
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,000
...and then you get angry.

554
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,000
...down and off.

555
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,000
You come back to say...

556
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,000
...you like me, I know...

557
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,000
...I get everybody else, get so angry...

558
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,000
...even the thought of anybody...

559
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
...touching the four-year-old child.

560
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:31,000
These were people who seriously believe...

561
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,000
...that four-year-old children have sexual feelings...

562
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,000
...and have the right as the...

563
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,000
...put it to express those feelings.

564
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000
In other words, it perfectly natural...

565
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,000
...for four-year-old to be having sex with grown-ups.

566
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,000
This is what the Peterfile mindset was.

567
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,000
People were trying to get this taken seriously...

568
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,000
...that this was okay.

569
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,000
So you had Jeffrey Dickens in P.

570
00:28:55,000 --> 00:29:00,000
...who produced a file on these Peterfiles...

571
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:01,000
...naming...

572
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,000
...and had all the evidence...

573
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,000
...including their manifesto...

574
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,000
...which said sex with a four-year-old...

575
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
...should be legalised.

576
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,000
Jeffrey Dickens in 1992...

577
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,000
...handed that file to the home secretary...

578
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:18,000
...to be investigated.

579
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:20,000
Who was the home secretary?

580
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,000
Leon Britten.

581
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:22,000
Leon Britten.

582
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,000
What happened to that file?

583
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,000
Nobody knows.

584
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Ask Leon Britten to die...

585
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,000
...as many journalists have.

586
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,000
He fails to recollect being handed in such file.

587
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000
Well, that's a home secretary.

588
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,000
Now, we've got another one.

589
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:41,000
Home secretary who's been accused by Michael Ben Fellows...

590
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,000
...and that's going to turn out.

591
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,000
We will all wait and see.

592
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,000
And that is Kenneth Clark.

593
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,000
Kenneth Clark.

594
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,000
Who failed to recollect?

595
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,000
Now, you have civil servants within the home office...

596
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,000
...who say this file cannot be found.

597
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,000
There is no record of this file ever being handed over.

598
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Yet it's in the going to hand-son.

599
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,000
You'll find that Jeffrey Dickens actually stood up in the house...

600
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,000
...a comment and spoke about it.

601
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,000
So, he caught the eye that he never received.

602
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,000
He just fails to recollect.

603
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,000
So, on the one hand, you've got these people...

604
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:18,000
...who are trying to, for one to the better phrase,

605
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,000
...league a lie, sex with infants.

606
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Hmm.

607
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,000
And on the other hand, you've got the people who are using this.

608
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,000
I mean, it's about power.

609
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,000
All people who are using this are about power.

610
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

611
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,000
You've got the people who are using this.

612
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,000
You've got the people who are using this.

613
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,000
You've got the people who are using this.

614
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,000
You've got the people who are using this.

615
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,000
You've got the people who are using this.

616
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,000
You've got the people who are using this.

617
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,000
You've got the people who are using this.

618
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,000
You've got the people who are using this.

619
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,000
You've got the people who are using this.

620
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,000
You've got the people who are using this.

621
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,000
You've got the people who are using this.

622
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:56,000
You've got the people who are using this.

623
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,000
You've got the people who are using this.

624
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,000
You've got the people who are using this.

625
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,000
You've got the people who are using this.

626
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,000
You've got the people who are using this.

627
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,000
You've got the people who are using this.

628
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,000
You've got the people who are using this.

629
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,000
You've got the people who are using this.

630
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,000
You've got the people who are using this.

631
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
You've got the people who are using this.

632
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,000
You've got the people who are using this.

633
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,000
You've got the people who are using this.

634
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
You've got the people who are using this.

635
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,000
You've got the people who are using this.

636
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,000
You've got the people who are using this.

637
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,000
You've got the people who are using this.

638
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,000
You've got the people who are using this.

639
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,000
You've got the people who are using this.

640
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

641
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,000
You've got the people who are using this.

642
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,000
You've got the people who are using this.

643
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000
You've got the people who are using this.

644
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000
You've got the people who are using this.

645
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,000
You've got the people who are using this.

646
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,000
You've got the people who are using this.

647
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,000
You've got the people who are using this.

648
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,000
You've got the people who are using this.

649
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,000
You've got the people who are using this.

650
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,000
You've got the people who are using this.

651
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,000
You've got the people who are using this.

652
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,000
You've got the people who are using this.

653
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,000
You've got the people who are using this.

654
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,000
You've got the people who are using this.

655
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,000
You've got the people who are using this.

656
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,000
You've got the people who are using this.

657
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,000
You've got the people who are using this.

658
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,000
You've got the people who are using this.

659
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,000
You've got the people who are using this.

660
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,000
You've got the people who are using this.

661
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,000
You've got the people who are using this.

662
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,000
You've got the people who are using this.

663
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,000
You've got the people who are using this.

664
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,000
You've got the people who are using this.

665
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,000
You've got the people who are using this.

666
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,000
You've got the people who are using this.

667
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,000
You've got the people who are using this.

668
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,000
You've got the people who are using this.

669
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,000
You've got the people who are using this.

670
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

671
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:34,000
You've got the people who are using this.

672
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,000
You've got the people who are using this.

673
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,000
You've got the people who are using this.

674
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,000
You've got the people who are using this.

675
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,000
You've got the people who are using this.

676
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,000
You've got the people who are using this.

677
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,000
You've got the people who are using this.

678
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,000
You've got the people who are using this.

679
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,000
You've got the people who are using this.

680
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,000
You've got the people who are using this.

681
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:54,000
You've got the people who are using this.

682
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,000
You've got the people who are using this.

683
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,000
You've got the people who are using this.

684
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000
You've got the people who are using this.

685
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
You've got the people who are using this.

686
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,000
You've got the people who are using this.

687
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,000
You've got the people who are using this.

688
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,000
You've got the people who are using this.

689
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,000
You've got the people who are using this.

690
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,000
You've got the people who are using this.

691
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,000
You've got the people who are using this.

692
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,000
You've got the people who are using this.

693
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,000
You've got the people who are using this.

694
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,000
You've got the people who are using this.

695
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,000
You've got the people who are using this.

696
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,000
You've got the people who are using this.

697
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,000
You've got the people who are using this.

698
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,000
You've got the people who are using this.

699
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,000
You've got the people who are using this.

700
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

701
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,000
You've got the people who are using this.

702
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,000
You've got the people who are using this.

703
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,000
You've got the people who are using this.

704
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,000
You've got the people who are using this.

705
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,000
You've got the people who are using this.

706
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,000
You've got the people who are using this.

707
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,000
You've got the people who are using this.

708
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,000
You've got the people who are using this.

709
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,000
You've got the people who are using this.

710
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,000
You've got the people who are using this.

711
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,000
You've got the people who are using this.

712
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,000
You've got the people who are using this.

713
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,000
You've got the people who are using this.

714
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,000
You've got the people who are using this.

715
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,000
You've got the people who are using this.

716
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,000
You've got the people who are using this.

717
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,000
You've got the people who are using this.

718
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,000
You've got the people who are using this.

719
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,000
You've got the people who are using this.

720
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,000
You've got the people who are using this.

721
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,000
You've got the people who are using this.

722
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,000
You've got the people who are using this.

723
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,000
You've got the people who are using this.

724
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,000
You've got the people who are using this.

725
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000
You've got the people who are using this.

726
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,000
You've got the people who are using this.

727
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,000
You've got the people who are using this.

728
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,000
You've got the people who are using this.

729
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,000
You've got the people who are using this.

730
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

731
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000
You've got the people who are using this.

732
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,000
You've got the people who are using this.

733
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,000
You've got the people who are using this.

734
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,000
You've got the people who are using this.

735
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,000
You've got the people who are using this.

736
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000
You've got the people who are using this.

737
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,000
You've got the people who are using this.

738
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,000
You've got the people who are using this.

739
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,000
You've got the people who are using this.

740
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,000
You've got the people who are using this.

741
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,000
You've got the people who are using this.

742
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,000
You've got the people who are using this.

743
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,000
You've got the people who are using this.

744
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,000
You've got the people who are using this.

745
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,000
You've got the people who are using this.

746
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,000
You've got the people who are using this.

747
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,000
You've got the people who are using this.

748
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,000
You've got the people who are using this.

749
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,000
You've got the people who are using this.

750
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,000
You've got the people who are using this.

751
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,000
You've got the people who are using this.

752
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,000
You've got the people who are using this.

753
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,000
You've got the people who are using this.

754
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,000
You've got the people who are using this.

755
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,000
You've got the people who are using this.

756
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,000
You've got the people who are using this.

757
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,000
You've got the people who are using this.

758
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,000
You've got the people who are using this.

759
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,000
You've got the people who are using this.

760
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

761
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,000
You've got the people who are using this.

762
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,000
You've got the people who are using this.

763
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000
You've got the people who are using this.

764
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,000
You've got the people who are using this.

765
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,000
You've got the people who are using this.

766
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,000
You've got the people who are using this.

767
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,000
You've got the people who are using this.

768
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,000
You've got the people who are using this.

769
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,000
You've got the people who are using this.

770
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,000
You've got the people who are using this.

771
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,000
You've got the people who are using this.

772
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,000
You've got the people who are using this.

773
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,000
You've got the people who are using this.

774
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,000
You've got the people who are using this.

775
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,000
You've got the people who are using this.

776
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,000
You've got the people who are using this.

777
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,000
You've got the people who are using this.

778
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,000
You've got the people who are using this.

779
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,000
You've got the people who are using this.

780
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,000
You've got the people who are using this.

781
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,000
You've got the people who are using this.

782
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,000
You've got the people who are using this.

783
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,000
You've got the people who are using this.

784
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,000
You've got the people who are using this.

785
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,000
You've got the people who are using this.

786
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,000
You've got the people who are using this.

787
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,000
You've got the people who are using this.

788
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,000
You've got the people who are using this.

789
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,000
You've got the people who are using this.

790
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

791
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,000
You've got the people who are using this.

792
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,000
You've got the people who are using this.

793
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,000
You've got the people who are using this.

794
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,000
You've got the people who are using this.

795
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,000
You've got the people who are using this.

796
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,000
You've got the people who are using this.

797
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,000
You've got the people who are using this.

798
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,000
You've got the people who are using this.

799
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,000
You've got the people who are using this.

800
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,000
You've got the people who are using this.

801
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,000
You've got the people who are using this.

802
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,000
You've got the people who are using this.

803
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,000
You've got the people who are using this.

804
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,000
You've got the people who are using this.

805
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,000
You've got the people who are using this.

806
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,000
You've got the people who are using this.

807
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,000
You've got the people who are using this.

808
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,000
You've got the people who are using this.

809
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,000
You've got the people who are using this.

810
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,000
You've got the people who are using this.

811
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,000
You've got the people who are using this.

812
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,000
You've got the people who are using this.

813
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,000
You've got the people who are using this.

814
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,000
You've got the people who are using this.

815
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,000
You've got the people who are using this.

816
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,000
You've got the people who are using this.

817
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,000
You've got the people who are using this.

818
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:28,000
You've got the people who are using this.

819
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,000
You've got the people who are using this.

820
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,000
You've got the people who are using this.

821
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,000
So that was saying that's our kid.

822
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,000
Leave it alone.

823
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:36,000

824
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,000
You can't talk to that kid.

825
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:42,000
And it's also, you know, if we go back not so many years.

826
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,000
I mean, especially if you're looking at the 50s, 60s, 70s,

827
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,000
it was very, you know, if you had a daughter and she would get pregnant or have a kid.

828
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,000
It was like a shame on the family.

829
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,000
It was a big time.

830
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,000
It was doing it in Ireland.

831
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,000
It was taken the kids straight from the map.

832
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,000
The Magdalene, the sister's yet.

833
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,000
And so, you know, in those days,

834
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,000
that they were even more vulnerable because what the parents wanted it

835
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,000
and was just get the kid away from our family.

836
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,000
This is our daughter, a decade you can't have a kid.

837
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,000
So the people go and be taken away and outside out of them.

838
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:16,000

839
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,000
So what I was like, sign is really,

840
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,000
when in victims to come forward,

841
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,000
they've got the come forward in their drives

842
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,000
because there are drugs of them out there.

843
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,000
They're still suffering and winning them that come forward.

844
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,000
But, you know, I've been told by people they find the police

845
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,000
and the police are saying, getting touch of it,

846
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,000
you've got an information.

847
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,000
They're doing it.

848
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,000
But it's made it so difficult.

849
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,000
It's not as easy as the police are pretending

850
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,000
and the press are putting it across.

851
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,000
The national media.

852
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:52,000
It's very hard for a victim because you've got to put yourself in the position of a victim.

853
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,000
If what used to happen,

854
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,000
what we found certainly back at Napek.

855
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,000
If it's say somebody was in a child and so on,

856
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,000
or in a community was making poor no pictures

857
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,000
involving young boys.

858
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:07,000
Yeah.

859
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:12,000
Now the police would have raised, say, an arrest everybody there.

860
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,000
So you have the guy who was making behind the camera

861
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,000
who was making the videos we'd get neat

862
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,000
for making the porn videos.

863
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:27,000
But say the two boys who would be having sex in front of the camera,

864
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,000
if one was say 13 the other was 15.

865
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:37,000
The older boy would get arrested for sexual offenses against the end of the boy.

866
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:43,000
So even though he was a victim, he would be classed as an abuser.

867
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,000
So if that's a little more ways or more.

868
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,000
Absolutely.

869
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,000
So you just victimize victims all the time.

870
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:56,000
So in terms of trying to get victims off that side of the used company didn't talk.

871
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,000
Why?

872
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:58,000

873
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,000
They do this because it's the lower class kid.

874
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,000
It's all lower class kid.

875
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,000
So that's what you're also looking at as far as I'm concerned.

876
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,000
Almost a racism there.

877
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,000
A racist culture.

878
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,000
You know what I mean?

879
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:14,000
It's very much like.

880
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:15,000
Like we're shit.

881
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,000
We are shit.

882
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,000
Right.

883
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,000
So we found that.

884
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:20,000
We found that.

885
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:25,000
You know, very poor street kids from the state's like dog eaten.

886
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:31,000
We're also being used as a ring voice at the Elngest House.

887
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,000
Now if I come back to Nampie.

888
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:39,000
Can I just go back on there when you talk about dog eaten and you'll bring in about children's home?

889
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,000
In the end of the show.

890
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,000
I'm talking about a sinka study.

891
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,000
I'm talking about how kids are fighting.

892
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,000
Oh, why?

893
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,000
Okay.

894
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,000
And I started just kids.

895
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,000
But poor working class.

896
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,000
Yeah.

897
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,000
But what I was like, it's a very big case that was covered up.

898
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,000
And my budget seems involved in that cover up.

899
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,000
And where was it?

900
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:01,000
That was in the Netherlands.

901
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,000
That was a big case.

902
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,000
And the kids were being taken from the Netherlands.

903
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,000
And out to Jersey.

904
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,000
To Hogue and the Garene.

905
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,000
And I would implore you all.

906
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,000
You know, to watch a film called Suncy and Satan.

907
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,000
The point is that we made.

908
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,000
We went out to Jersey for two weeks.

909
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,000
Right.

910
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,000
So, don't you?

911
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:19,000

912
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,000
I've been there all that.

913
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:22,000
The Elngest House.

914
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:24,000
I've tried to bring it back on.

915
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,000
Yeah.

916
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:31,000
Because of the involvement of Special Branch and the cause of the security service involved.

917
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,000
And very mind, we were in a vice agency.

918
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,000
At the advocacy agent for children, for young people.

919
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,000
We would have kids coming to the office.

920
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,000
Looking for help.

921
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,000
Looking for advice.

922
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,000
But we were under surveillance by Special Branch.

923
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:51,000
We had Special Branch off with arms, Special Branch offices in the car.

924
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,000
Actually, frightening off young people coming to us.

925
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,000
So, physically.

926
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,000
So, a day pic.

927
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,000
So, a special branch was stopping children coming.

928
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:03,000
So, you and with their problems.

929
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Yes.

930
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,000
So, they got so bad at one point.

931
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:09,000
We actually had to get use a community centre.

932
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,000
So, meet young people.

933
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:13,000
It was at that point, Biccup.

934
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,000
Because I was the adult vice.

935
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,000
And I had to think about the welfare and safety.

936
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,000
Bear in mind, it was a group of young people who were the

937
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,000
It was groups around the country.

938
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,000
I had to give consideration to their safety.

939
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:29,000
So, I went back to Carole Casier and I said, look,

940
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:32,000
If you want us to proceed with this.

941
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,000
And you want us to do something about it.

942
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,000
I want to get her to a lot of care.

943
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,000
And protect the other kids.

944
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,000
I need evidence.

945
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,000
I need whatever evidence you've got.

946
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:46,000
That you say to the all these people.

947
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,000
You still attend the Kings and Queen parties.

948
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,000
Or we're using the facilities.

949
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,000
I need to know what you've got.

950
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:59,000
I think in March, March 1990, she agreed to meet me.

951
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:04,000
And I went along to a flat in Richmond, where she was living at the time.

952
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:09,000
And in the flat she had a huge big cardboard box.

953
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:12,000
And in that cardboard box, there were lots of documents

954
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,000
that were some video tapes and other stuff in there.

955
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,000
And it was at that point that she'd going to me.

956
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,000
In guest house registers.

957
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,000
The paying bank paying in box.

958
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,000
Showing the money she'd received.

959
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,000
So the guest house register had everyone's name.

960
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,000
It was going there.

961
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,000
But I won't use in there real name.

962
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,000
It wasn't used in there real name.

963
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,000
And by this time, of course, we knew a lot of the ages

964
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:38,000
that people like Britain and Sirs met with music.

965
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:41,000
Cliff Richard was there as a guest.

966
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,000
I can't say he abused children and there's no evidence.

967
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,000
But he was there.

968
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,000
He definitely said that Cliff Richard, the modern Indian eagle and the book.

969
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,000
I can't remember off the top of the top.

970
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,000
Was it glad to saw something like that?

971
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,000
That is supposed to be the name of his boyfriend, Norman.

972
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,000
Cliff Richard's boyfriend.

973
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,000
Norman.

974
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,000
Norman was his boyfriend.

975
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,000
That he used to go at Will and Guest there.

976
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,000
We've not been there.

977
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:05,000
He's not.

978
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,000
And there's no evidence in it.

979
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,000
He was only way.

980
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,000
Well, if it was it's gone.

981
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,000
Yes, but maybe you're right.

982
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,000
But I don't know.

983
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,000
But coming back to what was in the box.

984
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,000
She also had about six video cassettes in there.

985
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,000
And she had a shoe box full of photographs.

986
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,000
And they were two types of photos.

987
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,000
They were in systematic type photos.

988
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,000
Yeah.

989
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,000
Yeah, print out.

990
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,000
Yeah, and put it all around the normal 35 mil phone errors.

991
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:40,000
So the photographs that have been taken in the facilities were the ordinary 35 mil standard photo.

992
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:46,000
The photos from the Kings and Queens parties were the instrumentic photos.

993
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:53,000
So she showed me, I think it was 8 photographs in total of people now that was two of them.

994
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,000
They were in Britain.

995
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,000
There was one of Harvey Proctor.

996
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,000
And then the Parliament.

997
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:00,000
The Parliament.

998
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,000
It was another one of a very well known industrial financial guy.

999
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,000
There was a whole series of photographs.

1000
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:13,000
And she had hundreds more in this shoe box.

1001
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,000
She wouldn't give them to me.

1002
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:19,000
I said, so I said to her after a lot of evening indeed.

1003
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:20,000
Can we just explain?

1004
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,000
Just give me a description of the on Britain photograph that you saw.

1005
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,000
So the on Britain photograph is wearing naked apart from the naked little apron.

1006
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,000
And one of those white just is caps.

1007
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,000
Oh, what?

1008
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,000
So he had a mains and made it out.

1009
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:37,000
A mains pinion and mains hat with a boy aged about 12 of sitting on this lap.

1010
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,000
What was the boy wearing?

1011
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,000
Nothing.

1012
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,000
So the boy was not.

1013
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:42,000
Because you said a boy's genitalia.

1014
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,000
Yeah.

1015
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,000
That's what he was.

1016
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,000
I mean he was a seen photograph by any of the audience.

1017
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000
Yeah, absolutely.

1018
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,000
The home secretary.

1019
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Yeah, but that the carol busier as I keep trying to tell people was not some sort of

1020
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,000
innocent victim in all of this.

1021
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,000
She was a conniving, cunning victim of woman.

1022
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:02,000
Yeah.

1023
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,000
She really was.

1024
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,000
She knew exactly what she was doing.

1025
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:06,000
Yeah.

1026
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:11,000
So she would only give us enough to keep us involved if you know what I mean.

1027
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,000
Yeah.

1028
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,000
Keep on out.

1029
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,000
Good side for one of the better friends.

1030
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:15,000
Yeah.

1031
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,000
And I said to it's not good enough, Carol.

1032
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,000
Just, you know, and let's all give me the phone.

1033
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:21,000
That's what you give me the stuff.

1034
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,000
She wouldn't do it.

1035
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:29,000
What she did eventually agreed to do, I think, that six, eight weeks later.

1036
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:34,000
She said I could come round and photograph them myself.

1037
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:38,000
But unfortunately, of course, she'll be after that.

1038
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,000
She was murdered.

1039
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,000
So.

1040
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:41,000
Right.

1041
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,000
So you never got to go around and photograph them.

1042
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,000
But when you was there, you were probably being with all of them.

1043
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,000
But anyway, I think it's her, she's saying we're seeing outside.

1044
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:50,000
Oh, no, that's right.

1045
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:51,000
I didn't call her outside.

1046
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,000
And there's a little story about that.

1047
00:46:54,000 --> 00:47:00,000
I mean, this shows you how contentious the security services and special branch were

1048
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:01,000
of people.

1049
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,000
They knew that they were run to and could do whatever they liked.

1050
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,000
In those days, in those days.

1051
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,000
We're talking about before the end and then I see.

1052
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,000
I see.

1053
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,000
What I'm really getting from my bar of phone, I'm really getting her.

1054
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:12,000
It's a question.

1055
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,000
When you start to go and go, Carol, because you said, like, where she was murdered.

1056
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:20,000
What was the information that came out in the press?

1057
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,000
Well, how she died?

1058
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:29,000
She allegedly, according to the coroner, she died from the nose of the incident.

1059
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,000
Because she was died there.

1060
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,000
She was absolutely rubbish.

1061
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,000
Yeah.

1062
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:34,000
Really was rubbish.

1063
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,000
If you read, I was at the coroner.

1064
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,000
I gave it to you.

1065
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,000
Why did you say it's rubbish?

1066
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,000
I don't tell you about the incident.

1067
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,000
Yeah, I'm just going to tell you.

1068
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,000
I was a witness at the coroner's court.

1069
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,000
So I was there for all the proceedings.

1070
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,000
Now, the pathologist report was quite clear.

1071
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:59,000
But the oldest syringe mark on her body was 72 hours old.

1072
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,000
That was the last mark on her body of the syringe.

1073
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,000
Every doctor, I spoke to a GP.

1074
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:10,000
I spoke to pathologists at the King's College hospital.

1075
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:12,000
They were all saying the same thing.

1076
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,000
If you overdose, we're in chewing by injection.

1077
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,000
You bid it within an hour.

1078
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:20,000
There was no way you live for 72 hours.

1079
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,000
Really?

1080
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:28,000
So, also the question mark about where this syringe mark was, which was on her body.

1081
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:35,000
And the evidence from the GP was that she never was never given in to her in that way.

1082
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:40,000
And even though he had injected her arm, it was on her body.

1083
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,000
So, where that injection mark had come from, I don't know.

1084
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,000
There was also the alleged suicide note.

1085
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:53,000
Now, everybody that the verdict myself, Mary, and Nampie, a friend, a family.

1086
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,000
Mary is another lady who was at Nampie.

1087
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,000
Mary was a neighbor, Mary was a nurse, she was a worker and Nampie.

1088
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,000
A really poor guy.

1089
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,000
And we all knew it was not Carol's handwriting.

1090
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,000
Carol didn't write that one.

1091
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:06,000
She didn't.

1092
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:08,000
It wasn't her use, so can I agree?

1093
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,000
So it was a bad fight.

1094
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,000
It wasn't even a bad fight.

1095
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,000
It was a rubbish.

1096
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:19,000
The only person who said it was in her handwriting was a man called David Essem.

1097
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,000
Now, David Essem was a pedophile.

1098
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:28,000
If you look at the Mary Moss file that's been put online of all the documents there,

1099
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:37,000
you'll see there the iPhone, Richmond, the lease, and Richmond social services departments.

1100
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:44,000
When I found out that Essem was in fact living at home with his partner and four-year-old son,

1101
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:50,000
because there was a court-all that banging him for within half a mile of his home and his son,

1102
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:57,000
because Essem and a guy against a court-all-puddled, fancy puddles.

1103
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,000
That means a bit like you.

1104
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:04,000
Yeah, had been abusing the four-year-olds in their hot tub that puddles house.

1105
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,000
Which was why there was the court-all to run it.

1106
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:15,000
So you had this and even the drug addict and an alcoholic and a thoroughly nasty piece of

1107
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:21,000
it, but he was the only one person who said that the handwriting was Carol Puzzi.

1108
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,000
Oh no, so is I, no.

1109
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:28,000
And the coroner seemed to accept his version.

1110
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,000
Now, don't forget the coroner.

1111
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,000
We don't know where you would call the credible ones.

1112
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:39,000
The coroner, fungal enough, is the same coroner who did the Princess Diane

1113
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,000
in-quest.

1114
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,000
Yeah.

1115
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,000
And also the Blair Peach in-quest.

1116
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:50,000
Well, what we're talking about there, if I could just, if the Princess Diana, I'll do it that camera.

1117
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:51,000
Is that in short?

1118
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:52,000
Is that a camera?

1119
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,000
Is that a camera?

1120
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:54,000
Doctor, but...

1121
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,000
Doctor.

1122
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,000
So there we've got it saying there.

1123
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,000
Princess Diana was murdered.

1124
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,000
Yeah, but Doctor Burden must have died who did her in-quest.

1125
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:05,000
Yeah.

1126
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:11,000
So he was known as being a safe, a repent, a pain, a trust to come up in the right

1127
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:12,000
verdict.

1128
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,000
Yeah.

1129
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:18,000
Now, at this point, you've met by a colon who's a private detective who was looking

1130
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,000
at this time.

1131
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,000
Bless his colon, so it's another blood-cooked.

1132
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,000
Yeah.

1133
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:27,000
And he kept bouncing up and down in the coroner's e-pressate.

1134
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,000
That's not true.

1135
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:33,000
What are you talking about in the coroner kept saying to him, would you sit down, please,

1136
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:35,000
and be quiet, Mr. Conon?

1137
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,000
But he wouldn't, but he wouldn't.

1138
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,000
Because he's a good guy.

1139
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,000
And I started...

1140
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:43,000
And he's now sitting in the eye, he's now sitting in the eye.

1141
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:45,000
I started protesting about the...

1142
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:46,000
The note.

1143
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,000
Play-caps screaming and shouting at the coroner.

1144
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,000
So in the end, the coroner said,

1145
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,000
I'll adjourn the inquest into the August.

1146
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:58,000
And I'll have Scotland, you are,

1147
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,000
it's forensic handwriting experts,

1148
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,000
take a look at the note,

1149
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,000
just to see whether or not it's the exact same.

1150
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:10,000
So when the inquest was re-opened again on the 22nd of August,

1151
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,000
the coroner came in,

1152
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:17,000
and he said, right, I've issued a written verdict.

1153
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:21,000
There's nothing more to say about it, bank case clubs.

1154
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,000
So, can make the way to August, and that was it.

1155
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,000
Nothing.

1156
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,000
So to the...

1157
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:30,000
To this day, I do not know what the forensic handwriting experts got in the yard,

1158
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,000
had to say nobody did,

1159
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:34,000
because the burden never told us.

1160
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,000
Right, so...

1161
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,000
Yeah, it's a really interesting thing about all those.

1162
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:42,000
When's on what's an hour's to question in the house of comments recently?

1163
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,000
Then we're told them, and then we're a parliament.

1164
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000
He also asked about the use of D-Motuses.

1165
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:53,000
D-Motuses are notices that they're supposed to be advisory,

1166
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:58,000
but basically the government doesn't like story and the newspaper is about to print.

1167
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,000
It'll slap a D-Mot.

1168
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:02,000
They know this is a gag, he knows a gag in order.

1169
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:06,000
Now, when Mary Watson, I left the coroner's call.

1170
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:09,000
The entire world's press was outside.

1171
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,000
Obviously, it was a very, very big story.

1172
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,000
It was a big story.

1173
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,000
Because we stood in the witness box,

1174
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,000
we named Leon Britain, we named Alby Proxer,

1175
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:23,000
we told the inquest, all the evidence we had about who had been involved

1176
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,000
at the unguessed hours.

1177
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,000
So by any stretch of the imagination,

1178
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,000
it was a big news story.

1179
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,000
When we got outside the court, the coroner's call.

1180
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,000
They were all there.

1181
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,000
BBC, I typically channel for scar you name it.

1182
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,000
Yeah.

1183
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:45,000
Not one single British television station radio station

1184
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,000
or newspaper interviewed myself in Mary.

1185
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:52,000
We were interviewed by Canadian broadcasting radio

1186
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,000
and Japanese television station.

1187
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:58,000
And I spotted the BBC reporter who I knew.

1188
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,000
And I went across to him and I said,

1189
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:01,000
what's going on?

1190
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,000
And he said, D-Mot is press.

1191
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,000
D-Mot is his word of use.

1192
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:11,000
That's why there was a very little coverage of the inquest

1193
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,000
in the national press in June.

1194
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,000
And it wasn't a sorry in July.

1195
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,000
And there was a little bit of coverage in some of the press

1196
00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:24,000
when the call went in, in Christmas in August.

1197
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:29,000
Now, when it was two years off, the Carol Cazir died

1198
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:34,000
and you were continuing your fight against Elgessau.

1199
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,000
So many other investigations, Chris, as you don't think

1200
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:41,000
good people like you were about.

1201
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:46,000
And free bullets came through your kitchen window two years after

1202
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,000
there.

1203
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,000
Now, tell us about that.

1204
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,000
Well, I don't want to talk to them because I don't want to make

1205
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,000
this about me, but obviously.

1206
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:57,000
But you've been investigating it, you know?

1207
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:01,000
It was obviously when you were dealing with the salt people

1208
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,000
that we're dealing with.

1209
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,000
You're not just dealing with the security service, but you're dealing

1210
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:09,000
with don't get international child pornography type.

1211
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:13,000
We found out, you know, there was a connected with the Monday club

1212
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:14,000
and Spartacus.

1213
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:18,000
There was a company called Toffs Travels Limited, which was

1214
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:23,000
physically taking boys in care out to Holland.

1215
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,000
Well, they've got definitely going to Holland.

1216
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,000
Yeah.

1217
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:28,000
And it was in Holland.

1218
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:33,000
We had quite a lot of evidence that smooth movies were being made.

1219
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:39,000
Now, you know, we tried as an organisation to be as professional

1220
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,000
and as reasonable as we could.

1221
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:45,000
And we checked out everything that we've told to the best of our

1222
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:46,000
ability.

1223
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:51,000
Now, I didn't know whether the start smooth movies existed or not.

1224
00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:54,000
It wasn't my area of expertise.

1225
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:59,000
So I, in fact, taught to, and I think in the Navy Global, which we gave

1226
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:03,000
to firm, which firm-rich took off, I mean, that's the operation firm

1227
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,000
into the police investigation that's looking

1228
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,000
at craft and an out.

1229
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:09,000
Yeah.

1230
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:17,000
And I spoke to Interpol, Europeol, the FBI, any organisation

1231
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:22,000
the United Nations Child Exportation, the European

1232
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,000
and the United Nations, about smooth movies in the official view

1233
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:30,000
in 1990 of all those organisations, including the Metropolitan Police,

1234
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,000
was that smooth movies did not exist.

1235
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,000
Yeah.

1236
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,000
They were a little bit more.

1237
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,000
And children weren't buried when they were killed.

1238
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:43,000
But that was the actual view of that was that he just didn't exist.

1239
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,000
Well, it's that he's out in the United Nations, because there weren't many

1240
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,000
smooth movies, and many children killed.

1241
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:52,000
Okay, so I know you know what I'm talking about.

1242
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,000
But let me just ran it off, and then we're going to move on to where we are now.

1243
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:57,000
Right.

1244
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:00,000
But the point is, you did have free bullets coming from you when you were young.

1245
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,000
It took the police to get there, and you've heard nothing.

1246
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,000
You're a vault so.

1247
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,000
And one PC told.

1248
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,000
And one PC told no.

1249
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:14,000
And so you also present this evidence yourself and Mary.

1250
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:15,000
Mary.

1251
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,000
On free different occasions.

1252
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:19,000
Oh, and numerous, okay.

1253
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:25,000
I mean, you know, if you, the whole point, if you, if you've got evidence

1254
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:30,000
of some and you've got kids who, who that being abused, who do you go to?

1255
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,000
You have to go to the authority.

1256
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,000
No.

1257
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,000
The local council.

1258
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,000
But you've been there and there's nothing.

1259
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,000
What exactly?

1260
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:39,000
On the way of the main occasion.

1261
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,000
So you can't give in this evidence in there.

1262
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:42,000
I don't know.

1263
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,000
Right.

1264
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,000
Here we are.

1265
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,000
What's the date?

1266
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:47,000
Mary, what's the date?

1267
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,000
It's the seventh of the second time.

1268
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:50,000
Two thousand, thirty.

1269
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,000
Right.

1270
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,000
So we all heard that.

1271
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,000
We're all in there.

1272
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,000
Well, we are now.

1273
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:01,000
And as a result, I believe Tom Watson and Peter, who was questions at the prime

1274
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,000
and given the house.

1275
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,000
I was approached by Tom Watson because I retired years ago.

1276
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:07,000
I'm 67 now.

1277
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:08,000
So I've been out.

1278
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:09,000
We're looking out for it.

1279
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:10,000
Thank you for that.

1280
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,000
But I mean, I'm a little bit more pleased with that.

1281
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:15,000
I've retired.

1282
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:20,000
So as far as I was concerned, this was all in the past for me.

1283
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,000
But I was approached by Tom Watson.

1284
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,000
Who wanted me?

1285
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:30,000
So I went up to see him in the house, comments, and told you basically what we've been talking about.

1286
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,000
Now, everything I knew about correct and then about,

1287
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,000
and guest house and about a lot of other abuse.

1288
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,000
And what was his response?

1289
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,000
I was shocked and horrified.

1290
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:41,000
What was he done?

1291
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:43,000
He did.

1292
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:50,000
He was instrumental in getting the metropolitan groups to establish Operation Fairburn,

1293
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,000
which was the original investigations.

1294
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,000
And look, established, I think, you know, Tom Benalshier,

1295
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:01,000
that was going to a scoping exercise to front-trients.

1296
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,000
It was fairburn about fairburn.

1297
00:59:03,000 --> 00:59:04,000
But that's what I'm saying.

1298
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:08,000
It was a scoping exercise to see what information was available.

1299
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:12,000
As a result, a fairburn, they set up Operation Fairnbridge

1300
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:16,000
and a detective chief inspector force.

1301
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:19,000
And that is a sort of Operation Fairnbridge, is solely about,

1302
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,000
solely guest house.

1303
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:24,000
I'll go stand about, correct and, although it has spawned,

1304
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,000
I mean, these operations seem to spawn like,

1305
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,000
Yes, there is now a yet another investigation coming out

1306
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:34,000
and they're called Operation Colleat.

1307
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:38,000
We had made a deal with something like that.

1308
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,000
So in 2012, what's the idea?

1309
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:45,000
So then I was approached by DCI Setup,

1310
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:48,000
who came to see me at my home,

1311
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,000
I think, in January of this year.

1312
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:52,000
Yeah.

1313
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:56,000
He wanted, obviously, to know what I knew.

1314
00:59:56,000 --> 01:00:00:00,000
And he wanted any documentation that I might still have.

1315
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,000
Well, as it happens, I still had the,

1316
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,000
you know, naked, not broken, which allowed the stuff.

1317
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,000
I also had the original charge sheets for,

1318
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:14,000
not copies, but the originals of characters,

1319
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,000
these charge sheets, so they are.

1320
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:17,000
Have you still got it?

1321
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:18,000
Yes.

1322
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:22,000
So, well, because I felt that stuff was important

1323
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:27,000
because the whole of this thing hangs around

1324
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:30,000
it seems to me whether or not they've rated the house

1325
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,000
under the prevention of terrors, man.

1326
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,000
Yeah.

1327
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,000
Or under vice legislation.

1328
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:41,000
Now, settle and firm bridge are saying that it was,

1329
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,000
that turned the party live.

1330
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:49,000
They're saying it was an operation carried out by local police

1331
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,000
and a vice legislator's notion.

1332
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,000
Would the terrors have been come well?

1333
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:55,000
Hang on a second, I'll get to that.

1334
01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:59,000
But this is the line being peddled by now.

1335
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,000
I've asked him point blank,

1336
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:03,000
whether or not there is evidence.

1337
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,000
If you're going to say this, there has to be evidence.

1338
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,000
But apparently there's a police records of the raid

1339
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,000
on a number available that they've disappeared.

1340
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:13,000
Disappeared.

1341
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:14,000
Not surprising, man.

1342
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:16,000
Disintegrate it into a great bond.

1343
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,000
From time to time, it's a capacity of where else even sky.

1344
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:20,000
Yeah, yeah.

1345
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,000
And the thing that shocked me most of all

1346
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:27,000
was that even the records of a trial at the old bayley

1347
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,000
no longer exist.

1348
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:31,000
I did.

1349
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:32,000
What?

1350
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,000
It's quite in realising until settle told me this

1351
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,000
that the...

1352
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,000
Her Majesty's courts and tribunal services

1353
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,000
only keep court records for 10 years

1354
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,000
after 10 years they destroyed.

1355
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,000
I mean, I couldn't believe this because I mean, you...

1356
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,000
I don't believe all of us.

1357
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:54,000
I don't believe you.

1358
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,000
You go to the public archives

1359
01:01:56,000 --> 01:01:58,000
and you could read about the trial of

1360
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,000
Doc Dr. Crippy, 100 years ago.

1361
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:02,000
Yeah.

1362
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:03,000
Indeed, so.

1363
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,000
But they know that they don't want people

1364
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:06,000
reading about it.

1365
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,000
They don't want them to do so.

1366
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:10,000
But what happened in 1982

1367
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,000
doesn't exist anymore.

1368
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:12,000
Yeah.

1369
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:14,000
Why don't we have to do 1912?

1370
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,000
The 1902?

1371
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,000
Extremely.

1372
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:18,000
Well, there you go.

1373
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,000
Anyway, so we're getting the...

1374
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,000
I'll get the...

1375
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,000
The record.

1376
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:24,000
Yeah.

1377
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,000
And we're rolling on this road.

1378
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:26,000
Yeah, it's still rolling.

1379
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:27,000
Oh, okay.

1380
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,000
So we're going to wrap it up on that.

1381
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,000
And...

1382
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,000
Do you just really have...

1383
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,000
Very quickly up to date on.

1384
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:37,000
A couple of weeks ago,

1385
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:41,000
I was trying to get back a copy of the NAPIC logo.

1386
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,000
So I approached the firm bridge.

1387
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,000
And I asked the firm bridge if I could have a copy of the

1388
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:48,000
notebook back there.

1389
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:50,000
So, yes, they're going to do so to drop it off.

1390
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,000
Nobody turned up.

1391
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,000
But then ground me up and it told me that it's active.

1392
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,000
Soaring up and popping me around.

1393
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,000
Never turned up.

1394
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:00,000
I followed that.

1395
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,000
I went to go out to the shops.

1396
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:06,000
And I opened the front door and standing on my doorstep.

1397
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,000
Did you see I put up certain himself who was passing by?

1398
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:11,000
Just passing by, I'm touching.

1399
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:13,000
I said, you're all these years.

1400
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:14,000
It's easy.

1401
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,000
I've all these years.

1402
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:16,000
Have a cup of tea in the chat.

1403
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:17,000
Yeah.

1404
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:18,000
Yeah.

1405
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:19,000
Well, listen.

1406
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,000
Well, I'm going to finish it there.

1407
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:24,000
This is a very bright man.

1408
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:27,000
This man was a witness at Carol Cresier's Inquest.

1409
01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:30,000
The police have recently been to see him.

1410
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:31,000
He's talked to MPs.

1411
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,000
He's talked to everyone.

1412
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,000
And you were in a very precarious position.

1413
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,000
So you don't think so, Chris, because you're too brave.

1414
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,000
And we're going to get this up.

1415
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:44,000
As soon as we came, then hopefully that will give you some kind of protection.

1416
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,000
Because let me just finish this.

1417
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,000
Because I've been, you know, I've been out there.

1418
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,000
They're pretty good.

1419
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:50,000
Good.

1420
01:03:50,000 --> 01:03:52,000
Even like yourself and other good people.

1421
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,000
Yeah.

1422
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:54,000
You've got all the story.

1423
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:55,000
They've got all the facts.

1424
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:59,000
So what didn't happen to me, they won't be about to have it out.

1425
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,000
Well, let me just finish up myself.

1426
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,000
Yeah.

1427
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:09,000
You've been covering up this shit for so many years.

1428
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:12,000
And you report us, where's Tom Savage?

1429
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,000
What's happened to Tom Savage?

1430
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,000
Tom Savage came and saw the original interview that I

1431
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:25,000
done with Chris Faye and all of a sudden Tom has been suspended under Nickt, under another

1432
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:27,000
charge, nothing to do with us.

1433
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,000
Even though he went out to suck person.

1434
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,000
He was infestigated in child pornography.

1435
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,000
Snuff movies.

1436
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,000
Looking for David Hamilton Grant.

1437
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:38,000
David Hamilton Grant is supposed to be dead, but he's not dead.

1438
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,000
He's alive and kicking and he's at in Turkey.

1439
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:43,000
And he's making pornographic films, the children at in Turkey.

1440
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,000
Because where he had to pay 500 quid for a kid here.

1441
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,000
He's be able to get him for a five or eight now.

1442
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:49,000
Thank you very much, Chris.

1443
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:50,000
Love you.

1444
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,000
You too mate.

1445
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,000
Go play a sub-rock.