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Hey John, a big welcome to Crypto Unstacked, wherever you are in the world.

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It's really great to have you join me on the pod.

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Well, thanks for having me on. I'm very pleased to meet you. I'm looking forward to it.

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So let's start off with a bang here. What is going on in the U.S. right now with the rioting, looting, and of course the powerful protests around the Black Lives Matter movement?

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I read the Fox article that you were recently featured in where you said that the riots are externally motivated and are going to escalate into something close to a revolution.

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You know, what's your take on the situation?

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I think the first thing to note is that many people in America, especially in the larger cities, have been locked in their homes, some of them for more than two months.

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That, in itself, had to have created a great deal of frustration, anger, and resentment.

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And if that was not taken out on people's spouses or neighbors or children or something, it doesn't take much to spark violence in a society that is bent up and frustrated.

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And so I think that that contributed greatly. I mean, seriously, the scale and extent of the violence is astonishing, is it not?

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And it does not seem to be in any way of either slowing down or shows no sign of disappearing.

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There are people who, excuse me, who have peaceful demonstrations. Some of those turn violent.

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But the police in many cities are virtually absent. Can't we blame them, given the violence directed at the police?

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And in many cases, it's warranted. Not the violence, but the anger.

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Right, right.

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And I think for too long, America has been almost an authoritarian regime where police and authorities, not just the police, the FBI, the courts, are immune to the needs, desires, and will of the people.

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And they feel that they can do whatever they want, whatever they want, and there will be no repercussions, and for a long time.

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This has been the case, people. You know this. I mean, really, if you open your eyes and just look around you.

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Shakespeare called it the insolence of office. Office meaning you have an official title, an official standing.

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And that brings on insolence. It's like, I'm immune. I'm more powerful than you. I have more authority than you.

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And you will do as I say, or else. And unfortunately, in America, this has reached an extraordinary extreme.

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And if our leaders, meaning our mayors and governors and congressmen and presidents, don't wake up and see that threatening, we're going to dominate the cities, as our president said.

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Or we're going to bring law and order. You're never going to bring law and order now, unless you address the fundamental problem.

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And it's not just a racial problem. We all know this. It's a problem of overreaching authority.

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And this is why I'm concerned. Unless that is addressed, this isn't going to go away, people.

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This rioting will continue to get more insidious, and soon it'll go from guns to bombs, and from bombs to burning entire cities.

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I mean, this happens. I'm sorry. If you look at history, when a people are downtrodden enough.

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And you say, well, Americans aren't downtrodden. I don't know.

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The government takes up to 40% of what you have to earn. To pay for what?

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Well, I mean, to pay for their junkets, their yachts, their boats.

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There are no congressmen who are not multimillionaires. Please, just check the records, all right?

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That seems rather strange to me, doesn't it? That you have a representative government, a representative of the people,

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and everyone, everyone in the government, from the president on down to the lowest congressman.

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As a multimillionaire, how representative can that be, people? And who's to blame?

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We're to blame. We elect these idiots into office.

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We actually vote for people who spend tens or hundreds of millions of dollars to become president.

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What crazy person would vote for that person?

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I mean, they're paying a hundred million dollars for a job that pays them $300,000.

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I mean, it doesn't add up, people. Use your heads.

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And you say, oh, well, the president doesn't do it. Other people, I don't care who does it.

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Someone's doing it. Someone's paying the money.

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So, please forgive me. I've got the start of a little cold here.

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No worries at all. Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying. It's so, yeah, it's so ingrained in our society to think that we need elected representatives to speak for us.

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Well, we do. We do need elected representatives to speak for us. You're absolutely correct.

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But have we elected those representatives? I don't think so.

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I mean, how can someone really, I mean, you have to ask why.

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Now, why is someone paying $100 million for the job? I mean, it's a job. I'm sorry.

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The president, the congressman, it's a job.

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Listen, we're going to vote for you. We're going to pay you. Now go do your job.

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And yet, they're spending money, more money than the job pays.

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These people, use your heads.

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It doesn't take much thinking to see there's something wrong with this formula.

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And yet, we continue to do it.

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You know, oh, well, he's the right man or the right woman for the job.

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Or, no, please, God, no one's the right person if they're paying money, more than the job pays.

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I mean, I can understand someone paying bus fare to go for an interview.

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You know, or maybe even buying a suit. Okay, my suit's old.

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Yes, yes, but that makes sense.

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I mean, maybe the first week you'll pay for that suit.

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But no one's ever going to be president long enough to pay $100 million.

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I mean, it's a 300-year job to reclaim that money.

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So people are responsible.

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You become lazy.

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And rather than think things through and make tough choices,

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because white choices are always tough choices.

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Right.

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I agree.

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And instead of voting your feelings, please, God, vote your feelings.

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What does that mean?

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No, use your head, people.

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What has happened?

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I mean, Jesus, when I was in my 30s, you know, that was in the 60s, we didn't have much of this going on.

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We really did not.

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We had, you know, Dwight Eisenhower, I think, was the last president, who was a true president that worked for the people.

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And he didn't want to be president.

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And he didn't want to be president.

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Good Lord, he was a supreme allied commander of the Second World War.

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The most powerful person in the world.

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It was a step down to be president.

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He didn't want it.

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He was old.

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He was tired.

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He wanted to fish.

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And he was just shamed into taking it.

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Who else wants it really?

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America was a mess after the war.

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You know, there was all kinds of financial and social problems.

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And yet he went ahead and took the job.

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When he left office in 1960, he warned us.

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He said, if you don't do something with people, the military industrial complex and the CIA are going to take every single freedom that you have.

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And they have, people.

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They have.

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I don't think it really matters now who the president is.

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Because the system in which we live is like an automobile with a frozen steering wheel.

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It doesn't matter who's driving people.

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It doesn't matter who's driving.

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And if you doubt me, those of you who have lived through more than a few presidential elections,

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was a single hair on your head, wafted by that awesome change in power?

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No.

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You know it wasn't.

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You know it wasn't.

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Nothing changes.

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I mean, even when presidents do try.

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Obama, you know, spending half of his entire eight year term building Obamacare.

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And what happened to it was dismantled.

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We all knew it.

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It's not in the interest of the military industrial complex and certainly not the CIA to have change in this country.

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But unfortunately, our system has become oppressive enough that you're seeing it boiling over now.

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And what you've got to do is you've got to turn down the heat, not turn it up.

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Do you understand what we're doing as a government?

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I mean, people are frustrated.

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They're angry.

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They want revenge on something and they don't even know what it is that they want revenge for.

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They just know that something's not right.

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That's a great way to put it.

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That's a great way to put it.

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They don't feel free in a country that's supposed to be a free country.

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And what are we doing?

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Well, we're going to lay down the law.

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Please.

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That's right.

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Pour more oil on the fire.

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Why don't we?

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It helps.

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It will not.

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And this is why I fear something terrible will happen if we don't back off as a country.

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Not our people, but our government.

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Back the fuck off, please.

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You are going to destroy America by your authoritarian fucking attitudes.

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This is the problem.

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And I'm sorry.

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Please forgive my cursing.

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I'm an old man and things just roll out of my mouth.

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Okay.

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I mean, yeah, exactly to your point.

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We're seeing this ripple effect of, you know, anger and frustration not being contained in just the US.

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We're seeing this across the world, you know, in parts of Europe and also in Asia as well, where I'm based.

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Right.

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So it's not just a narrative that is concentrated on the US.

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Of course not.

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It's flared and very, very visible, unfortunately, in the US.

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But here's the problem.

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Do you understand that America has such power and such influence in the world and has for 50 years, that everyone emulates America.

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America cracks down and so does everybody.

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Look at the laws, drug laws.

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You know, in most countries, no one really gave a shit until America goes.

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Marijuana is bad.

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LSD is bad.

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Well, suddenly all over the world is bad.

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So yet the rest of the world is taking its cue from America and the rest of the world needs to stop doing that.

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If this is not apparent, people, I mean, if, you know, Russia, a lot of Russia, they don't particularly emulate America, but, you know, if Western Europe and Africa and the Caribbean see what's happening in America now, maybe, maybe they will step back and go, whoa.

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Maybe we've taken a wrong turn and we have taken a wrong turn, people.

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Please see the truth.

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If it's not apparent, if you're in any city in America, look out your window.

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Look out the windows of Los Angeles, New York, Minneapolis.

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Minneapolis, please, people.

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It is deteriorating at an astonishing and alarming rate.

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You had mentioned earlier that, you know, LSD.

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Let's talk about that because, you know, you posted your first episode on Drugs 101 on Twitter, I saw.

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And I always like to explore the minds of my guests.

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So, you know, what's your fascination with drugs?

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I'm super curious.

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I don't know.

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I mean, what's our fascination with anything that we're fascinated with?

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I mean, we encounter it at some point in our life, whether we're young or old, and it intrigues us.

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It slows us down or speeds us up.

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You know, I don't know where my fascination really came from.

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Alcohol is a drug.

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I experienced that as a very young man.

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And, you know, my first year in college, I almost became an alcoholic.

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My fraternity was, you know, always having parties with beer, wine, booze.

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You know, if I stumbled on marijuana in my early 20s in New York City, and then everything else just came.

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I mean, you know.

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And keep in mind, I lived through the 60s.

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In 1969, when the 60s sort of ended, I was 25 years old.

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And the 60s were the days when, if people were passing through town and handed out a pill, we just popped in.

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This is what we did.

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You know, there weren't, we didn't seem to have the type of people we have today, which are trying to do harm, trying to, you know, no.

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I just...

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More of an experimentation.

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More of an experimentation.

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And that's why I didn't, you know, here's the thing about drugs.

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I'm not recommending drugs to anyone, by the way.

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But those of you who have tried hallucinogenic cells, the DMT, ayahuasca, mushrooms, you name it, will have experienced a part of the mind that many people go through their entire lives without

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knowing that it even exists.

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Drugs, under certain circumstances, can bring a mirror of clarity to your face where you see yourself in an entirely different light.

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And for some people that is enlightening, for others it's horrific, and for others it's just plain in the way.

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Let's get on with the fun, right?

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And the fun drugs, obviously, I mean, many of them can be fun, from heroin all the way to ecstasy, cocaine is a fun drug, methamphetamines, the cathinone class that the Chinese experimented with and delved so deeply into.

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I mean, among those, certainly the most powerful drug I have ever taken, I've never heard of one that approaches this power, is methylene-dioxypyrobalurane, MDPV, which if taken properly, where the dosage is correct and not too much, gives you not just visual hallucinations,

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but auditory hallucinations, but auditory hallucinations, and the only drug I've ever taken that gave me tactile hallucinations.

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I mean, were you feeling those?

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Not there.

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But they're real.

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I mean, they're as real as this.

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You feel it.

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All at once.

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You experience it.

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Yes.

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Oh, yeah.

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It's freaky.

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It is freaky.

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And not necessarily all at once.

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Sometimes you're just getting tactile.

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But most of the time, the hallucinatory auditory and visuals don't match up.

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I mean, and people who are on MDPV almost always have one common auditory hallucination, and that is calling your name.

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That's the freakiest thing when you're talking, and someone's going, John.

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Yeah.

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John.

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You know?

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And while that's happening, maybe someone's stroking your leg, but they're not there.

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It's like, it's a freaky drug, people.

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And it's not for beginners, and it's not even for anybody, really.

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It is now outlawed in every country in the world.

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Every country in the world is the number one worst drug, maybe.

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Certainly, my experience is the number one most powerful drug.

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It makes LSD and DMT look like baby aspirin in comparison.

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Wow.

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I can only imagine that experience.

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Turning the conversation now to, I would say, a much more interesting part of your life, which is your lifelong journey as an entrepreneur.

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Anyone who takes a moment to read your bio will know that you've reinvented yourself many, many times over the years.

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And I think people want to hear what you have to say because you're incredibly opinionated about, you know, just about everything.

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Right.

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I am indeed.

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Which makes you, you know, very interesting, right?

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And so for our conversation today, I kind of want to pull back the curtains here to get to know John the Entrepreneur.

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Okay.

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You know, people must know you for your namesake antivirus software company called McAfee Associates.

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But before diving in on that venture, you know, I want to talk about where your interest for entrepreneurship began.

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Right.

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How did you first become interested in computers and technology?

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Well, computers are not exactly entrepreneurship.

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It's just one aspect.

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No.

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I became interested in being an entrepreneur at the age of 11 when it occurred to me that I

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could make some spare change.

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Excuse me.

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There's a fly in the sermon.

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Make some spare change.

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I think there's a fly.

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I'm not on a drug.

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But I could make some spare change by knocking on my neighbor's door and asking if they would

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like their yard.

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Now, no one likes to mow a yard, right?

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Some kid comes by and forgot about 75.

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And there was a lot more money back then.

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So I'm not mowing a yard.

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You know, I was mowing almost all of my neighbor's yards.

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And that was in the summertime.

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And in the wintertime, Janice, can you do something with this fly?

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You can see it, right?

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Yes, I can see it.

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I'm sorry, Leslie.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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It is an aggressive motherfucker, okay?

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And it's like, okay, if there's any meth in this room, the fly must have smooted it

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because that's exactly what it's acting like.

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And, Janice, come around to the camera if you need to.

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We'd love to say hi to you for a second.

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Janice, they want to say hi, please.

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Just for a second.

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Janice, they want to say hi, please.

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Just for a second.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm sorry.

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You too.

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We'd love to say hi to you for a second.

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Janice, they want to say hi, please.

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Just for a second.

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Okay.

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Hello.

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Hi, Janice.

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Nice to meet you.

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Thank you so much for recording this.

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It's nice to meet you as well.

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Of course.

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You're very welcome.

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It's going well.

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Besides for this fly, that is not, you know.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Okay.

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Sorry.

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All right.

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All right.

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So, anyway.

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So, then in the winter time, I would take a shovel when it snowed and ask the neighbors

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if they wanted their walk shovel for 50 cents.

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And so, I made a fair amount of money starting at the age of 11.

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When I was 13, I took over a paper route in the neighborhood and then took over a larger

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paper route, combined them, and hired kids to carry the papers, you know, for me.

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So, I don't know.

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That was entrepreneurial.

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I've always wanted to take care of myself.

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And that's all I want to do with entrepreneurs.

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It's the understanding that you don't have to work for anybody.

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You can work for yourself.

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If you're creative enough to simply find an area where something needs doing.

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I don't care what it is.

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Yards need mowing.

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Walkways need shoveling.

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Software needs creating.

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So, I've just always done that.

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And at the same time, I've worked for companies because I'm sort of lazy SOB.

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And sometimes it's easier just to work for somebody for six months or a year, save your

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money, and then travel.

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Which I did more times than I can count.

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I'd save all the money, quit, and then travel the world until my money ran out.

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And sometimes, like in Germany, I was traveling, I ran out of money, and I got a job in Germany

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with Siemens, the German electrical manufacturer.

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You know, that's just my life.

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And then in between, I would do things like, at one point, I got into the jewelry business.

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I took off from, I think, the great American insurance company.

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I don't remember which job it was.

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I went to Mexico with my girlfriend and simply got into the jewelry business.

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I was buying stones in Magdalena, which is a town in northern Mexico.

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Driving about 2,000 miles south to Tosco, which is the jewelry-making capital of Mexico.

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Having them set into stones and driving up to Mazatlan, which is where all the Americans

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go or used to go to vacation, and selling them to tourists on the beach.

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I got into all kinds of trouble doing that.

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I never had a license.

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I was arrested in Puerto Vallarta doing that.

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But I don't know.

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It's just entrepreneurism is taking advantage of opportunities that lend themselves to potential

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money-making activity.

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I mean, what has it been like to then now get into the crypto space where, you know, you've,

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again, reinvented yourself, right, as a crypto enthusiast, you know, being a founder of the

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McAfee Dex and also the inventor of GhostCoin as well, which I know is one of your most recent projects.

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So from a very high level, could you talk about your motivation there and if this is something

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that you would like to stick to for the foreseeable future?

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Well, listen, I'm 74.

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There's not going to be many more adventures after this, probably.

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But no, here's why I'm into crypto.

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I think the arrival of the blockchain, the immutable record of reality, which blockchains are,

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and the advent of cryptocurrency based on the blockchain, for the first time has given us

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a world-changing technology that has not come from the bowels of a government research program

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or from Apple or IBM or Microsoft or Google. No, no, no. It came from the people.

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And almost all of the technology in this arena is open source.

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We're like Ghost. We're releasing our source code on the 22nd of this month. Open source meaning it's yours.

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We don't own it. This is what we did. We're moving on. It's yours.

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For the first time, it's given the people an opportunity to own a world-changing technology.

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And my big concern is that we do not lose this opportunity by allowing government to take it over,

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and force us not to be able to use our own, which I think that's going to happen.

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Certainly with privacy coins, they're going to outlaw Monero, I'm sure, another year or two.

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But does it matter? I mean, they outlawed marijuana for 75 years in America, and it didn't stop anybody from smoking it.

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I mean, if you see the value to it, people, you must also see the injustice of governments attempting to steal it from us.

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Let them do it too. It's open source, yeah, but don't allow them to force us to use their currencies.

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That's the tragedy that I see that might happen.

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Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this.

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Thank you. I really appreciate this. Thank you so much, John.

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All right. Bye-bye.

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Bye-bye.

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Bye-bye.