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i'm in hong kong right now i was supposed to have been uh in shanghai uh at a bitcoin conference

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uh and just before i was uh due to arrive uh the uh the chinese government uh outlawed icos

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uh and uh and bitcoin exchanges so we're sort of a fugitive if you're in hong kong this all

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gets down to the issue of what is money what is currency uh what is it should be real honest

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banking cryptocurrency is is the first truly democratic currency um uh there's no central

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control meaning we don't need a central bank we don't need the feds and we don't even need the

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government there's simply no way for a government to find out how much money you have uh what any

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transaction you made might be uh how much money you made um and and so governments are going to

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start reacting like china welcome back to real news i'm david knight and joining us now is a

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cyber security legend john mcafee and of course anybody that's had a computer knows the name

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mcafee uh he sold that and he is now working on other issues but he's been an outspoken advocate

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for bitcoin and for cyber currencies and of course all of us would like to see something that is

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independent of the federal reserves of the bankers we want to see some independent currency out there

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but a lot of people don't understand it because there's technical issues involved so as we see

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the price of bitcoin going up and down it's not just a way to store money but of course people will

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invest in it just like they invest in gold and gold goes up or down relative to the fiat currencies

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that we get from our banks right now and so that's what happens with bitcoin as well as people

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consider it to be a better store of value or lesser store of value its price will go up or go down

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based on that now last week we had jamie diamond the ceo of jp morgan chase he denounced bitcoin as a fraud

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and promptly the price went down significantly by the end of the week it was down 27 billion dollars

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he came out and said the currency isn't going to work you can't have a business where people can

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invent a currency out of thin air well how does he explain the federal reserve i don't know how that

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comes out and think that people who are buying it are really smart they point out he's the head of

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of america's largest bank he threatened to fire anybody in his organization if they trade the

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cryptocurrency said i would fire them in a second for two reasons it's against our rules and they're

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stupid and both are dangerous and yet we find out now that jp morgan was involved in a lot of bitcoin

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related trading while he was calling it the currency of drug dealers and murderers and now they say well

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that wasn't us directly we weren't owning it we were just doing it for our customers so they were

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advocating for their customers to do things that they called uh stupid and dangerous while he was

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dumping the currency they were buying it as it was falling down 27 billion dollars so joining us now is

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john mcavey john you went on when was this uh this was back in july you got in a tweet and got a lot of uh

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press coverage at the time you said uh if bitcoin doesn't get up to 500 000 in value you said that you

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would eat a part of your anatomy on national televisions i'm assuming that you're still long on bitcoin

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uh i am you know as a matter of fact i'm in hong kong right now i was supposed to have been uh in

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shanghai uh at a bitcoin conference uh and just before i was uh due to arrive uh the uh the chinese

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government uh outlawed icos uh and uh and bitcoin exchanges so we're sort of a fugitive here in hong kong

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the the uh the conferences moved at the last minute to hong kong uh and oddly enough all the people who

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were due to speak in shanghai showed up here in hong kong so i'm here with uh such luminaries as roger

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bear and uh jihan wu who is the chairman of um bitmain the the largest manufacturer of mining computers for

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bitcoin so there's a lot of a lot of uncertainty and and uh um you know fear and and doubt roaming

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the world now about uh bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies so it's fitting that you would

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be in hong kong yeah it's fitting that you would you would find a refuge there in hong kong for your

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bitcoin uh a meeting there your convention because you know i was in hong kong when we adopted my

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daughter we went back through there and i thought it was kind of interesting we started looking at the

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currencies we usually do and it was very decorative and all of a sudden i realized you know they all

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said hong kong dollars or whatever but they were different colors this is about 10 11 years ago

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there were different colors and and then i saw that it was backed by different banks

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that place has been a bastion of freedom we had milton freedom and talk about hong kong because they

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were allowed to have democracy there the british government wasn't really very interested in them

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they eventually turned them over after the 99 year lease was up they turned them over to the chinese

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they're now considered to be a separate autonomous region but they're getting more and more interest

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in them but they had private banks that were issuing it that were backing the currency which is what we

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used to have in the united states before we had a central bank yeah that issued a fiat currency and

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now of course this all gets down to the issue of what is money what is currency uh what is should be

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real honest banking and the petrodollar that we're now seeing venezuela abandon the petrodollar we saw

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bricks britain uh brazil russia india china south africa they had a summit they said we gotta uh

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a set up our own cryptocurrency even as china is outlawing it as you mentioned uh they're setting

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up their own cryptocurrency but they're also saying we gotta get rid of the petrodollar because that's

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what's been propping up our fiat currency here in the united states so talk to us about that juncture

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there and how cryptocurrency fits into that perspective well you know a cryptocurrency is is the first

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truly democratic currency um uh there's no central control meaning we don't need a central bank we

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don't need the feds and we don't even need the government uh and and it represents i think the

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the uh the the greatest single threat to world governments uh that that has occurred um since the

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invention of um of automation the um the problem that governments will eventually face is how do you

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collect revenue if you're basing your revenue collection on uh taxing income because with

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cryptocurrency especially the newer ones like monero and and and others that are completely anonymous

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there's simply no way for a government to find out how much money you have uh what any transaction you

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made might be uh how much money you made um and and so governments are going to start reacting like

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china banning it um and of course that connection just made between that connection just made there

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between the income tax and the banks is at the bottom of all of this because we saw the american income

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tax created at the same time they created the federal reserve so they create the central bank with

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the fiat currency they create the income tax at the same time so when you break that connection

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with uh cyber currencies that is a real threat to their ability to get taxes that's why they're

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reacting this way as you point out oh of course of course and then so governments will event well

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they will first react with outlawing it well that's impossible we're talking about something where

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if you outlawed in america we'll go to an exchange in in switzerland or india or russia or somewhere else

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so it cannot be outlawed uh neither can it be controlled in any way by legislation i mean the

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only way to truly control it is to disconnect the country from the internet itself and we know that

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that's something that's simply not going to happen uh so they will react first with legislation uh but

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in the end governments will have to find alternate means of collecting revenue like perhaps you know

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payment for uh for goods and services like if you visit a national park it's going to

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cost you 50 i'm not sure how they will collect revenues but income taxation is simply going to

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disappear well it's interesting because as i was talking about uh jamie diamond and the fact that he

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said look i would fire anybody that trades in bitcoin because it's dangerous and it's stupid and so

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forth yeah they're running these trades for people we find out at the same time he was dumping on it

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publicly and causing that uh that dump they're trading in it and they say well we were just doing that for

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third-party investors but then they found and this is an rt article that jp morgan has posted a job ad

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for a blockchain technician and of course the blockchain yes is what that's the technical

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basis for the cryptocurrency so that looks like maybe jamie diamond maybe these other bankers maybe

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people like china organizations like china what they're trying to do is establish their own

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cryptocurrency because they know that they can't stop it as you pointed out yes and i i think there

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are rumors now that china is in fact uh going to uh issue its own cryptocurrency uh and that way they

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can control it and make all others um illegal or if not illegal that they must be purchased through uh the

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national chinese cryptocurrency so so uh people are going governments will try all sorts of things

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before they finally realize that this cannot be controlled i mean this is pandora's box that has been

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opened you're not going to put cryptocurrencies back in that box no matter what you do no matter who you

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are or no matter how much power you have because it cryptocurrencies specifically bitcoin has given

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power back to the people interesting article i think it was on the drudge report yesterday uh bloomberg

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geneva police are trying to figure out why people are stuffing money down toilets they found about

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they said tens of thousands of euros stuffed down a toilet at a geneva branch of ubs they said it was

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close to where some of the uh safe deposits were but they are literally putting the money down the

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toilets and clogging them up to the extent they have to call in plumbers that completely clogged it up they put

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so much money down it but is that a recognition i mean have we reached peak fiat currency when people

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are stuffing tens of thousands of euros down the toilets as they come out of the bank maybe they

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should be putting that into a bitcoin huh well maybe they should i mean i i think that's happening early

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i expect that to happen you know a few years from now with with great regularity uh you know maybe in

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venezuela it might be cheaper to take the venezuela paper money and and use it for toilet paper rather than

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uh buying uh buying toilet paper i don't think they can even buy toilet paper no matter how much

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venezuela currency they've got well i i think i think ultimately the same thing will happen with

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the u.s dollar as i said cryptocurrencies are here today it doesn't matter what governments want to do

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or try to do they're simply here to stay it cannot be regulated and it cannot be uh legislated away end of

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story so if that is the case as more and more people move to uh cryptocurrencies then the fiat

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currencies by default are going to be devalued and at some point the valuation is going to approach

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zero and and that's when we will start using hundred dollar bills as toilet paper or we will

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light our cigarettes with them or whatever so uh yeah that is coming and why it's happening now with

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euros because euros still do have value i have no clue well you know we got uh interesting to find out

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we've got people like uh jp morgan's jamie diamond uh saying it's uh it's garbage it's a fraud while

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they're still trading in it while they're putting out ads for technicians to run blockchains and so

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forth and we see the same thing happening with governments we got china saying it's going to be

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prohibited unless we do it because it's a big threat to them being able to tax you as we mentioned

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that the creation of the income tax at the same time as the creation of the federal reserve but going back

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to the comment that we had going back into july we've seen uh as you pointed out they can't stop

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it but they can try to create their own system that is tied into the government or they can

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manipulate it as we saw jamie diamond do this this last week uh taking out about 27 billion dollars

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worth of so it can still be manipulated but let's talk about the long-term issue of this uh with bitcoin

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because bitcoin is independent of the government and that is going to give it some value in and of itself

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you did an analysis when you said uh you would eat a part of your anatomy if we didn't have a 500

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000 bitcoin within three years so are you still standing behind that analysis and i remember

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when it came out you talked about how you came up with that value you felt that it was conservative

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tell us a little bit about how you came up with that number 500 000 you just didn't pick it out of the

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air well first of all let me let me let me comment on on uh you know jamie demon's comment in fact

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uh bitcoin did drop over a thousand dollars uh in a matter of days however it has sprung back to four

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thousand dollars again um so his his comments had a temporary impact but the true value of bitcoin is

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based on the number of people who use it and the number of transactions uh that that are are created

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daily and that is increasing dramatically so when i said 500 000 i'm talking about the value of the u.s

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dollar three years from now which is going to be drastically reduced due to the flight of of the

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general populace from fiat currencies uh to cryptocurrencies like bitcoin so no 500 000 yes

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that sounds like a lot of money but the u.s dollar would be worth so little in three years i truly

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believe that uh that that 500 000 may in fact be conservative so you're you're saying that it's more

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and i think i'll have to eat a part of my anatomy uh after three years so you're saying then that

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it's more a function of the collapse of the value of the dollar because we look at the price of bitcoin

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or we look at the price of gold there are they are alternative stores of value and we see them

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fluctuating in value because it's not necessarily because they're fluctuating in value it's because

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the american dollar or the fiat currency that they're up against is fluctuating in in value because

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it's just simply based upon confidence and we can see confidence shaken in a currency just like we

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saw uh jp morgan do that to bitcoin yes uh but but again those those uh temporary dips are becoming

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shorter and shorter in duration like jamie jamie um uh demon uh four days after he he made that comment

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bitcoin was down to less than three thousand dollars from four thousand one hundred it's now back up to

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four thousand less than a week later so these comments and these these temporary dips are becoming

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less and less uh important in the in the graph of how bitcoin is rising but if you look at bitcoin uh year

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over a year it's astonishingly uh uh uh consistent uh you know going up three or four hundred percent per

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year and uh i don't see that changing uh other than as the dollar decreases in value then that that

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curve will steepen um but with cryptocurrency why why do they have uh so many proponents and why do i

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think they have value among other things my company is uh mgt uh is one of the largest bitcoin miners in

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north in north america we have over 2 000 high speed computers that are constantly 24 hours a day

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mining bitcoins and it costs us over a thousand dollars to create a single bitcoin now that's that's a

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proof of work that's verified by other miners uh that that in in terms of electricity costs and the

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the cost of the computing is a a near constant but how much does it cost to create a u.s dollar

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or a u.s 100 bill well which one is the fraud see jamie called bitcoin a fraud but which one is really

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the problem is it the u.s dollar that's bad that's the whose value must be based on the paper on which

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it's printed or a bitcoin that requires massive amounts of work to create well i would jump on

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the bitcoin that's right that's very good point and that's why they use the metaphor mining uh because

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uh you know taking it back to the metaphor of trying to get gold out for example and and clearly i i

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think that uh that's going to be the case you haven't seen any articles interestingly enough i had

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to ask you what the the price of it was because i i don't follow it that closely you didn't see any

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articles talking about how there was now a 27 billion dollar increase in the price of bitcoin

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over the last week they talked about it when it dropped but they didn't talk about a 33 increase

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or recovering back to where it was uh when that happened after after the information you put out

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there we've only got a couple of minutes and i would be lax if i didn't ask the man whose name is

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linked to cyber security itself john mcafee about this equifax hack that has now resulted in the loss

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of information for probably about half the people in america 143 million or more we saw that they

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hid this for over a month and we now find out that uh they had uh this hack way before even uh it was

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disclosed to other people they say five months before it was disclosed to the public so even earlier first

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we were told it was a month before they did now five months they did inside training your comment on that

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we got about a minute here's the issue with here's the issue with hacking most hacks uh are over and

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done with before companies even discover they have been hacked uh the the problem with the equifax

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the hack is that equifax uh uh collects and and maintains information of an extraordinarily personal basis

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on on every human being that they can find uh because why it's a credit company they want to

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know what your credit is however do you pay your bills on time all sorts of information that that

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credit card companies do not keep that your banks don't keep that uh macy's or retail outfits do not

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keep even uh the u.s government in the office of personnel management they do not keep the information

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of the at the level that equifax does so that hack probably invaded the privacy of american citizens

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uh to an extent that has been unprecedented in the history of hacking um and yes what did they know

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about it five months ago i don't know if they knew about it they may have discovered that it was going

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on five months ago but many hacks like the office of personnel management which which occurred two years

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ago with the u.s government it had been going on for two years before they discovered it it's because

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we are so far behind the hacking curve as a country as business is welcome back to real news i'm david

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knight and we're talking to john mcafee and i asked him if he could stay one more segment because i want

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to get his take on what we can do to try to get ahead of these cyber hacks of course there's not much you

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can do when a third party keeps this information on you like equifax and although we had the hack

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that everybody's heard about maybe not everybody's heard about it we've talked about it quite a bit

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the 143 million people have had their identity stolen essentially because that's what we're talking

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about we're talking about more detail on your personal private life as uh mcafee uh mentioned in

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the last segment more than the government has typically that was the hack that we saw in the headlines

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but we've now just learned yesterday that there was a major hack of its computer system back in march

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five months before the one that we just learned about which we didn't learn about for another month

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after it happened so uh john mcafee what can we do assuming that it's something that we have some

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control over i understand that third parties like the government and uh credit rating uh industry is

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going to have our information there's nothing we can do to make sure that they're going to keep it

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safe and secure but what can we do to try to secure our information are there solutions out there

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well i think first and foremost there should be class action suits against equifax for um

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lax security i mean yes we're in a new world everybody is using anti-virus software to protect

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them from hackers that no longer works i know this because i invented the anti-virus paradigm

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back in the late 1980s it didn't no longer work there are products available that if equifax had

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been willing to spend the money that are new age products for the new paradigm of hacking like my own

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company mgt has a product called sentinel it's not based on any of uh anti-virus paradigm it's based on

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the paradigm of detecting hacking activity rather than the malware that they plant because by the time they

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plant the malware it's too late so when hackers come into your system they they do things which

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normally are never done like they will sniff every device on your network well nothing does that you

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have something coming in it wants something specific but if the first thing that happens is

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what's on your network and what's in every device on your network that should be an indication that

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something's wrong so these products like our own sentinel plug in and they monitor in real time

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so they detect the presence of a hacker within a matter of seconds rather than waiting a year

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sometimes or more to find out that oh yes a hacker came in planted the malware took everything and now

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it's too late so equifax has a responsibility to keep up with the new world of cyber security they

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should have had a product like sentinel in every one of their subnets why didn't they because it

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would cost them hundreds of millions of dollars yet they have obligation to protect the data that they

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have collected on on 140 million americans so the first thing we should do because we can't help what

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they do and yet it's the hacking of these large companies and agencies that affect us the hackers don't

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come into our homes to get data why because there's not much there i mean why would you break into

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your house david for example uh to get your bank account to get your personal data when they can go

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to equifax and get 140 million people's data that's right and then they can know who's got the money and

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who they can steal uh who they want to steal stuff from because they've got the credit rating there right

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absolutely so so it's these companies that bear the obligation of using the state of the art

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cyber security products to make sure that your data is safe and yet they don't why because they

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have long-term contracts with companies like mcafee my old company uh kaspersky using products that

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simply don't work they just don't work so they have to update their systems they have to use your

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solution uh your solution sentinel that is something that is is for the people that are collecting massive

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data it's going to be an expensive system uh that's very fascinating and of course you can find out

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more about uh john mcafee who is mcafee.com and future tense central.com john mcafee always informative

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always interesting and always ahead of the curve thank you so much for joining us john mcafee

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you're welcome so thank you for having me