1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,000 When you and Mel write a book, what are you going to talk about? What are you going to... 2 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:28,000 I never even thought of anything like that. I'd have to give that some thought. 3 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:41,000 I was doing this on Mel's request. He wanted to write the book. I don't particularly ca... 4 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:53,000 I don't look up at you for any reason to bring my report card home anymore. Does th... 5 00:00:54,000 --> 00:01:01,000 What I'm trying to find out is what would you like to bring out in the book that can tea... 6 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,000 What can you teach other people? 7 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,000 That's what I'd like to know. What do you think you can teach other people? 8 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:15,000 That's what I'd like to know too. I know how to be reborn and start all over. 9 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:25,000 I don't start all over with the same old same old. I just start all over. 10 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Even though I might be old, I'm still brand new every day because I do one day at a time. 11 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:39,000 Just like that old convict used to tell me. Isn't that what he used to say, Mel? One d... 12 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,000 So I've learned to live my life in one day at a time. 13 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:52,000 Is there anything you think you can pass on that society really is missing and that yo... 14 00:01:52,000 --> 00:02:03,000 Society knows when it wants to know. There's just a jellyfish. It's only controlled by ... 15 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,000 They'll tell them anything. Everybody knows that everybody's lying. 16 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:13,000 Do you know anyone that tells the truth? Can you trust a lawyer? 17 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:21,000 You can't trust a lawyer. You can't trust... Who can you trust? The President Nixon? Th... 18 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,000 Look at where your children are looking at from. Who can they trust? 19 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:29,000 So you would try to tell parents something about raising children? 20 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,000 I would try to tell the children how to help the parent. 21 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,000 How? 22 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,000 By realizing that the parent is the child. 23 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:46,000 Because he doesn't understand the child, but the child understands the parent. 24 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:51,000 I've had to talk to the little kids. They just tell the truth. 25 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,000 No lie, you know. 26 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:58,000 What do you want to point out in the book, if you bring that out? What would you like to... 27 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:07,000 You people are on your road going where you're going. If you don't want to stop fr... 28 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:16,000 You know, you're going to your destruction, not mine. I've already established mine. 29 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:23,000 I've already went through mine. I've been judged. The judge gave me nine life... 30 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:29,000 But hold a minute. You really are. 31 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:35,000 But in your philosophical talk, a lot of people won't, it'll go right over their... 32 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,000 That's what I'm trying to say. Put it so they can understand it in lay language. 33 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Can we do that? 34 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Well, it's sad all over, really. 35 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:56,000 It's hard for me to express how much sadness that I've went through to reach this point... 36 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,000 How are you going to help somebody that don't want help? 37 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Will your book do that? Will you try? 38 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:24,000 Will I try to help you people destroy me some more? Is that what you're saying? 39 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:25,000 No. 40 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:26,000 That's what I'm doing here. 41 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,000 Will your book help children? Help parents? 42 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:38,000 I don't know whether it would help anyone. I've never thought about that. 43 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,000 You guys would have to show me what help is so I'd know what it is. 44 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:49,000 You teach me. I'll learn. I'm just a little kid in mine. 45 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:58,000 See, I've been in jail for 30-some years. I never lived in your world outside. I'm lik... 46 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:03,000 Will your life story help somebody else to understand how to proceed? 47 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:15,000 If it was possible to present everything that's came down in the last few years in ... 48 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:24,000 But if they had eyes in their head and they could see under the bed, they'd see the he... 49 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,000 It doesn't really matter because rubber fingers is taking the hand off into the... 50 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:37,000 The level of comprehension that you hold in your mind is only taught to you by a schoo... 51 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:44,000 My father jumps off the Second World War in the ruptured ducks that were in the little... 52 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,000 and Section 8 in the nut wards, and all the people that have gone crazy. 53 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,000 Your father was crazy? 54 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:58,000 My father was all men that I've ever met in prison. Mel was one of my fathers. 55 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:05,000 Creepy Carpenter is another. I learned something from everyone. The captains, the... 56 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,000 I never missed anybody. I learned as much as I could from everybody I could get a hold of. 57 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:12,000 And I've never met anybody that I couldn't learn something from. 58 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:20,000 But now that I have learned what I've learned, I don't think you people want to... 59 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,000 You wouldn't like it. 60 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,000 Why? 61 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,000 Well, because it's not very nice. 62 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,000 Well, why? 63 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Because the people that you let run your lives aren't very nice. 64 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:41,000 The people that govern you, the people that tell you people what to do, they're not go... 65 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Let me change the subject for a minute. 66 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,000 You've been back on a job, out of segregation, for how long now? 67 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,000 I don't know. I got up and came out here today. 68 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,000 How long have you been working in the chapel? 69 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,000 I explained to you. I live one day at a time. 70 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,000 I don't have any other life outside one day at a time. 71 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,000 What brought you back into the mainland population? 72 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,000 What brought me back into the mainland? The preacher? 73 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:16,000 With his love and respect and help, he got me back on the main line. 74 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:26,000 After all those years of solitary and segregation, how is it? 75 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:30,000 Still, right now, I'm doing the same day I've always done. 76 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,000 I've just had to bring it a long ways. 77 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,000 But it's still today, and it's still a good day. 78 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:43,000 And every day it gets a little better, no matter what you do to me. 79 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Are you at peace with yourself? 80 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:51,000 Whatever that means, I never even thought about asking myself if I was. 81 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,000 I don't generally talk to myself. 82 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,000 But I guess talking to yourself would be alright. 83 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,000 He said to me, you know... 84 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,000 Give me a sound check. 85 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,000 You want a sound check from us? 86 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,000 I want to ask you a question. 87 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,000 Sure. 88 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:26,000 I want you to give this question a lot of consideration. 89 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,000 You don't have to answer me now. 90 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:39,000 But can you imagine what it would be like to be interrogated by the SS? 91 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:44,000 I don't know whether I could imagine it or not. 92 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Think about it. 93 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,000 Oh, I know what their tactics are. 94 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:51,000 Can I answer it after the interview? 95 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,000 There's no doubt about it, is there? 96 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,000 Can I answer it after the interview? 97 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,000 It's very serious, isn't it? 98 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:59,000 Sure it is. 99 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,000 Can I answer you after the interview? 100 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:02,000 No, you don't have to answer me. 101 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,000 You can just think about it. 102 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:04,000 I will. 103 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,000 In your everyday... 104 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Let's talk about Helter Skelter. 105 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,000 Let's talk about Helter Skelter. 106 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:25,000 Bouliosi, Payne Shue, has a small, would-be pop singer, as he describes it, of little... 107 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,000 How do you react to that? 108 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:32,000 Bouliosi looks in the mirror every morning when he shaves. 109 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,000 And that's the only person in Bouliosi's world. 110 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:39,000 Just him. 111 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Ask his wife. 112 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,000 She knows it. 113 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,000 What about the accuracy of the book, though, Charlie? 114 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:55,000 He had the dates right and the names right, but he had a million illusions that had... 115 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,000 He was only trying and convicting his own reality. 116 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,000 Didn't have anything to do with me. 117 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,000 I've already been through all these prisons. 118 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:11,000 But he did paint you, as probably one of the most universally known persons... 119 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,000 To who? 120 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,000 Around. To readers. 121 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,000 People who read it. 122 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,000 And they believed it? 123 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,000 I don't know. What do you think? 124 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:25,000 Then they're not as good as what they read, are they? 125 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:32,000 But the book, how accurate or inaccurate is it? 126 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:34,000 I never read it. 127 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:35,000 Didn't you brief it one time? 128 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,000 I read parts of it. 129 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,000 Yeah. How did you find it? 130 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Like I say, it was reflections of what he was thinking. It had nothing to do with me. 131 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:54,000 Seriously, the Charlie Manson that you created, that's not me. 132 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,000 That's only an illusion in your mind. It hasn't got anything to do with me. 133 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,000 What's the real Charlie Manson? 134 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:04,000 I haven't really been able to make him up. I've just been reborn again. 135 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:10,000 And I'm learning now. I'm starting all over. And I'm learning. 136 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,000 The preacher's teaching me. The teacher's teaching me. 137 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:19,000 The counselor's counseling me. And the doctor's looking out after me. 138 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,000 The guards don't bother me that much. And I don't bother them that much. 139 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,000 They do their jobs and raise their kids. And I do my job and do what I do for my kids. 140 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:34,000 You know, there was a time a while back where when you got out into the main line, you r... 141 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,000 I remember Bobby Davis up at Folsom. 142 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,000 I ran into trouble? 143 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:40,000 Well, you got into trouble. 144 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,000 Who told you that? You see what I'm saying? 145 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,000 Did it happen? Did you fight? 146 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:48,000 Many things have happened. No, I didn't fight. 147 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000 Were you fought? Did somebody come after you? 148 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,000 Were I fought? Sure, I've been fought on many times. 149 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:54,000 Did somebody come after you? 150 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:59,000 Did somebody come after me? No, someone could come after me if they wanted to. 151 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,000 But did they? 152 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:04,000 No, they've always left me here. Nobody wanted me. 153 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,000 You haven't had any trouble on the outside? 154 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,000 On the outside, where? 155 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,000 In prison. 156 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,000 In the prison? No, in the population. No, I get along with most of the convicts. 157 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,000 The convicts that get along with themselves. 158 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:23,000 There's much harmony in prison. More every day. 159 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:29,000 There's much wisdom in the prison. More every day. 160 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:36,000 Getting back to the book, what is this magnetism that people keep referring to? 161 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:40,000 And it's been beyond that. People writing you, wanting to meet you. 162 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,000 Your people that you had in the desert. 163 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,000 What is the magnetism? 164 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,000 Why don't you answer that question? 165 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,000 I'm asking that question. 166 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Well, can't you see? 167 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,000 Well, tell me, what is it? 168 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Well, what do you think it is? 169 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,000 Do you know? 170 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,000 Do you know? 171 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,000 Don't play games with me. 172 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:02,000 It's no game. I know. That's why. That's why you're asking me questions and I'm not ask... 173 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,000 Okay. 174 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,000 You see, I don't need to ask you questions. I already know. 175 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,000 Could you tell me? 176 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,000 Sure, I can tell you. Do you have the time? 177 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,000 I'm here. 178 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,000 Who would you like to start? 179 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,000 Well, what is it? Go ahead and tell me. 180 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,000 What is what? Are you secure? 181 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,000 Charlie. 182 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,000 The government is the United States. The government has never been more secure. 183 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,000 Never been more secure than it is right now. 184 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,000 Hold on, bud. Seriously, I want to know. 185 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,000 Alright. 186 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,000 What is it that draws people to you? 187 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,000 Music. Motion. 188 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,000 Generating. 189 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Attention. 190 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,000 Reality. 191 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,000 I know. 192 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,000 When you know, you just simply know. 193 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,000 Jesus on that cross. 194 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,000 You know he's there. Is he there? 195 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,000 Is the cross there? 196 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,000 I know the cross is there. You don't have to put me on the cross 197 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,000 to witness for the cross. I can see the cross. 198 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:27,000 Now what I'm trying to do is get back to earth so I can go out in the desert. 199 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,000 I've already cleaned that thought up once. 200 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,000 And you put another president in. 201 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,000 But you said it was people. 202 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,000 And every time I clean it up, you put another president in. 203 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 You said it's people who are in harmony with you. 204 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,000 What do you mean by that? 205 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,000 People that are in harmony with themselves in the will of a child. 206 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,000 The child has a will. You tell the child to come here and the child to walk over. 207 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,000 You tell him to sit down and he'll sit down. 208 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,000 He's just in the will of the child. 209 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,000 God and his children are in the will of the child. 210 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:02,000 It's just as simple as the Bible said that you must be as little children 211 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,000 before you enter the kingdom of heaven. 212 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,000 If the Christians had believed in the Bible, 213 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,000 then we wouldn't have all this conflict. 214 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,000 But evidently the only ones that are in conflict now are the Christians. 215 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:18,000 They don't seem to believe in their own God for some reason. 216 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,000 I don't know what it is. 217 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,000 Maybe they need to see him on the cross again. 218 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:28,000 Or maybe they should pray for him to come out of the sky in a silver platter. 219 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,000 Or I don't know. 220 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:34,000 I'm just here and you're there. 221 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:37,000 And who is your reality? 222 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000 Where do you get your energy from? 223 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Where does your soul flow and your thoughts? 224 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,000 And how do you know you know? 225 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:53,000 Unless you have to come and say, Charlie, how's the Dow Jones? 226 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,000 You read the Wall Street Journal? 227 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,000 Certainly I read the Wall Street Journal. 228 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,000 I'm right at the top of your brain. 229 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:07,000 And I'll read the Wall Street Journal until you let me walk out that door a free man. 230 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,000 Or we'll just use Indian head pennies for earrings. 231 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,000 What if you did get a parole date in November? 232 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000 What would you do? 233 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,000 Then I would give it some serious thought. 234 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,000 I don't have room in my mind for could-be's. 235 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,000 I have to deal in what is. 236 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,000 I can't think about what I want. 237 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,000 I have to deal with what I'm allowed to have. 238 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,000 What if you got a date? 239 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:38,000 If I got a date, then I would probably have a date. 240 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Do you know what you'd want to do? 241 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Yes, I have many plans. 242 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,000 A lot of plans. I'd like to clean up the water. 243 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,000 I'd like to go up in the mountains and start at the top of the mountains and clean the... 244 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,000 Take all the pollution out of the water so I could drink it. 245 00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:00,000 Clean up all the green things and pick up all the old beer cans. 246 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,000 Clean all the way to the ocean. 247 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:08,000 And then maybe we might be able to save a little air and water for our children. 248 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,000 Because I'm living in my child's world now. 249 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,000 I'm working on his world. 250 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,000 My world already went to the gas chamber. 251 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,000 What if you don't get a date? 252 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:27,000 If I don't get a date, then I won't have a date. 253 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:34,000 Have you thought about it then? 254 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,000 I know you want to get a date. What if you don't? 255 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,000 I've gave it some thought, but not that much. 256 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:48,000 I've gave it the thought in relation that it's possible that they'll be pushed to ma... 257 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:56,000 to alleviate the pressure that they've created on themselves. 258 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:03,000 If there's any way that I could help that, I would, then that way I could achieve what ... 259 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,000 All I want is what the Constitution said I could have. 260 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:13,000 The liberty and the right to look for my freedom the way I want. 261 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:19,000 If you gave the Constitution to me like you said you were supposed to, then I wouldn't... 262 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,000 And I wouldn't have been here in the last 11 years. 263 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:30,000 But if you let your politicians play like they're Christians and use your courtroom ... 264 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:36,000 then all you're doing is big business with your own children's lives. 265 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:47,000 And it really doesn't make sense to me, but I don't have the President's spot to make an... 266 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,000 If I had the control to make the change, I have the power to... 267 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,000 All right, oh, wait a second. 268 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,000 You still come on and go off? 269 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000 Nope. 270 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,000 Oh yeah, I see you. 271 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:14,000 So if I can get comfortable here, I might be able to sit all the way down. 272 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,000 Good. 273 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,000 You know, we were talking about this. 274 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,000 The book Helter Skelter. 275 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,000 Right. 276 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,000 You said that there are a lot of things wrong with it. What's wrong with it? 277 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:38,000 Well, the book's all right. 278 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,000 They do paper and all that. 279 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:50,000 All this paper comes from trees. It's a shame to waste all your trees right in this tras... 280 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:55,000 Do you want your children to live according to the Gospel of Helter Skelter? 281 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,000 Where are the inaccuracies in it? 282 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:04,000 Well, it would take me, as long as it took him, to point them out. 283 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:13,000 It took him two years in court to invent them. It would take me two years in court ... 284 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:14,000 Bullying. 285 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,000 Yeah. Helter Skelter simply means confusion. 286 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:26,000 And if you don't see the confusion in the world, it's always been confusion in the... 287 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:35,000 But I get out of jail, and every time I get out of jail, society's moving a little... 288 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:44,000 And I get out and I can never adjust to it outside because it's almost impossible to ... 289 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Everything is wrong. You have to hide, and day people and night people and everybody ... 290 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,000 Did they make up the evidence introduced in court? 291 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:02,000 A big percentage of it they found and created themselves. 292 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:10,000 They'd push a fingerprint together until it got to be, they'd justify it and then send... 293 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:16,000 Then another office and then push it, and then finally they'd find another point unt... 294 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:31,000 Then the people that supposedly left the fingerprint has never lied to me, nor I to... 295 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,000 I was over in this particular portion of it. 296 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:50,000 In other words, all the little things that they come up with, like the trailer, the d... 297 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,000 And then they burnt the ranch down to cover that up. 298 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:59,000 But in no way are you saying, in no way are you connected with either the Tate or... 299 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:06,000 No, I'm not saying anything like that. I'm saying that if it would have come out in t... 300 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:12,000 All we wanted to do to start with was tell the truth, but the lawyers wouldn't let us... 301 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:28,000 We just wanted to tell the truth, but they didn't want the truth to come out because... 302 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:34,000 Charlie, regardless of helter-skelter, do you belong behind bars? 303 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,000 There's no behind bars. 304 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,000 Do you belong in prison? 305 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,000 There's no prison. It's only in your mind. 306 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,000 Do you belong in an incarcerated position? 307 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:52,000 There's no such thing. There's only you denying my will. Whoever denies my will ke... 308 00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:01,000 If everybody agrees to let me go, then I'll walk out. Then I'll be free. My chains are... 309 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:07,000 If you will me to be locked up, then I must stay locked up. If you will me to be free,... 310 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:18,000 It's not as complicated to me as it is to you. You look at it through the books and ... 311 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:27,000 So I'll ask you the same questions. Do you think you deserve to be locked up somewhere? 312 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:33,000 I'm asking the questions in the interview. Can I do it? 313 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,000 Well, certainly. But you have to ask yourself the same time. 314 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,000 I realize that. 315 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:47,000 If justice came, who would we all be? We'd all be in some sort of trouble, wouldn't w... 316 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:53,000 Let me get back to the book for a minute. What do you think Mel's going to try to br... 317 00:23:53,000 --> 00:24:16,000 The years that we've known each other through the prisons. And the point of view that he... 318 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:31,000 Maybe not as vast. But then I think that he wants everyone to know that I'm not really... 319 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,000 How did we make you? 320 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,000 Well, you raised me from childhood. 321 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,000 How in what respect are you? 322 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:53,000 Well, when you have a child that nobody wants, he's always sent to boys' school,... 323 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:58,000 Were you beaten as a child? 324 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,000 That hasn't really got anything to do with anything. 325 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,000 Were you abused as a child? 326 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:08,000 We were all abused, now and then. That's not really an issue to anything. 327 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,000 What is the issue? 328 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,000 Not your question. 329 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,000 All right. What is the gut issue? 330 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,000 In the book that he wants to do? 331 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,000 Yeah. What is the gut issue? 332 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:39,000 Well, I think he just wants to put what he thinks is wrong right, and give another po... 333 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:48,000 And really, what I really think is, I think Mel's done just about everything he wants ... 334 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:54,000 I think he just wants to do it just to be doing it, because it gives him something t... 335 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,000 Hold it, bud. 336 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000 Well, it would make sense. It's just another game to play. 337 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,000 I don't think so. 338 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:09,000 He would give them immunity for burglaries or let them off some deals. If they stole a f... 339 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:18,000 And then lay in their cells just working, trying to think up something. Anything the... 340 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,000 I told him a lot of things. Most of the people I didn't even know. 341 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:29,000 Linda Kasabian, for example, she'd only been at the ranch a couple weeks. I'd seen her... 342 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:36,000 You know, like I never paid that much attention to the people that came and went... 343 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,000 So you're saying he took a few pieces of truth. 344 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:48,000 And messed it with his ability to play with words and colleges and books and things. A... 345 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:57,000 And he wanted some attention and he wanted to be all the things in the movies, you know.... 346 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:05,000 And I wasn't allowed to play my part. I was only allowed to sit down and be the figure... 347 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:16,000 All the time. Because he had the money behind him because he said he had the people behi... 348 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:25,000 But that's another thing that's wrong with your court system. Your court system's not... 349 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:33,000 So your courts are not really protecting anything but the money. It doesn't have mu... 350 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:39,000 I've got a curiosity. Can I ask you a question? Remember you had an X years ago ... 351 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,000 No, I never changed it. It's been the same thing all along. 352 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,000 Wasn't it always an X? 353 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,000 No, no. It never was. 354 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:45,000 What's it stand for? 355 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:51,000 It stands for whatever I mean it to stand for and whatever I make it stand for and whate... 356 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,000 But you didn't one time say you were X-ing yourself out? 357 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,000 No. That was your newspapers that gave you that. 358 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000 What does it stand for for you? 359 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:05,000 It stands for many things. It would take two or three weeks to explain all the things t... 360 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,000 Can you give me an example? 361 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:12,000 Certainly I can give you an example. The United States flag of America. 362 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,000 The swastika? 363 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:24,000 The rising sun in the German and the Japanese flag. The star of David to the Israelis. 364 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:32,000 The whatever country or nation or people or cause has always had a symbol. 365 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000 And that's your symbol? 366 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:42,000 That's mine. I put that there from two or three other symbols. I didn't want to put ... 367 00:28:42,000 --> 00:29:12,000 And I didn't want to put a pro-communism and I didn't want to put an anti-thermal flag ... 368 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:42,000 fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fr... 369 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,220 fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fraf fr...