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Supernatural, meeting with the ancient teachers of mankind, presented by Graham Hancock.

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In this lecture, Graham delivered an inspiring story about Ayahuasca, the sacred part of the Amazon

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and ideas about how it stimulated evolution.

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We're called at Live, a Megalithamania Conference 2006.

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Nice to see you all here.

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Supernatural is a bit of a departure for me in relation to my previous work.

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And it may seem a bit off-themed for this conference because it's stealing more with the upper

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Paleolithic than with the Neolithic.

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But actually I do touch on the Neolithic as well in this talk.

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So let's just get straight into it.

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Of course, if the actor will work.

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There we are.

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Amazon Rain Forest.

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80,000 different species of plants and trees.

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Our species is in the process of removing this wonderful resource at the moment.

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Wrong way.

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Amongst those plants and trees, this bush is of great interest.

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It's Botanical Dam is Cicotrya Viridis.

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It's known in the Amazon as Chakruna.

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And I'm with the Shaman Francisco Montes-Suna here.

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Here's an Ayahuaca Shaman, which I'll explain in a moment.

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Now here's a second of those Amazon plants.

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It's a vine.

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It's called the Ayahuasca vine.

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It means the vine of souls.

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And if you take these leaves from, I'll get used to it in a minute, from the Chakruna plant,

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if you were to take these leaves and cook them up into a tea and drink the tea, absolutely

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nothing would happen to you at all.

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And that's odd on the face of things because the leaves contain an extremely powerful

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hallucinogen, which is totally illegal in this country.

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And that hallucinogen is called Dymethyltryptomy, the MT.

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But the MT can out in the normal course of events be absorbed orally.

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And if people want to take the MT in this country, they either have to smoke it or inject it.

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There's an enzyme in the stomach that destroys it on contact.

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However, in the Ayahuasca vine, in the vine is another chemical and that switches off

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the enzyme in our stomach.

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So if you mix these two items together about 300 of the Cicotry of the Redis leaves and about

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20 lengths of the vine, put them into a cooking pot, pour in a lot of water from the river

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and cook it for hours and hours until the water juices to a thick mass at the bottom.

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Then you pour that off you add more water and you do this again all night long until finally

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you're left with about a liter of this dark and extremely obnoxious liquid.

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Now I've drunk Ayahuasca just 11 times so far.

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I'm going back to Brazil to drink it some more in July.

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I have to say that it is very likely the most awful taste on the planet.

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If you think of essence of old socks mixed with toad, sulfur and other unpleasant things,

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that's the taste of Ayahuasca.

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How did passes your lips?

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You know, you absolutely know that you're in for a very serious experience.

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You have no doubt about that whatsoever.

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But kind of shudder as it goes down and, basically, when it's taken in this very concentrated

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form, you drink a equivalent of about a double shot of spirits in a small glass.

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After about 45 minutes, two things are happening.

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The first thing that's happened is you are feeling sick.

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You're feeling nauseous, dangerously dizzy, rumblings are beginning to take place in your stomach.

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I'm pretty soon you're going to have to dash off into the jungle and you're going to have to relieve yourself

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because it gives you very severe diarrhea and very severe vomiting.

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Now, we Westerners are not very good at diarrhea and vomiting in public settings.

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This is something about the Ayahuasca experience that is quite difficult to get used to,

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but I think it's a very important part of it because what these purging aspects of Ayahuasca

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are really telling you to do is to let the body alone, but forget about the body.

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Concentrate on what's happening in the mind.

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That's where it matters.

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Now, without some people lose room have drunk Ayahuasca,

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but it has a deguess that the majority of you have not.

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And it's sometimes difficult to explain the world that you go into,

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and it is another world when Ayahuasca starts to work on the brain,

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but fortunately a number of shamans are gifted artists.

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And we can get some idea of the Ayahuasca world from the paintings of Pablo Amaringa here.

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It's a world filled with intelligence, intelligence in everything.

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These jaguars that almost everybody who drinks Ayahuasca,

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wherever they come from, sees jaguars like this and also huge serpents,

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emanated an extraordinary kind of intelligence and seem to communicate with you in a telepathic way.

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I'd like you just to note a few other features of this other painting again by Pablo Amaringa.

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And Barry Ma'am, what Pablo is doing here is he's drinking Ayahuasca.

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He's having the three hour Ayahuasca trip.

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He's having the experiences with Ayahuasca.

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The next morning with those experiences clear in his memory,

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he sits down and paints and recalls what he saw.

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So just a few details to look at here, the serpents, animals with human heads,

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and this extraordinary rich combination of pups and colours.

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Now, this is a painting by Alex Gray.

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He's a Western artist, American artist, but also following an Ayahuasca session.

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And the question that I want to ask here is,

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what is going on with Ayahuasca in our minds?

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Is it just brain candy?

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That's what most of our scientists would say.

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There's a war on consciousness in our society, which goes by the misleading name of the war on drugs.

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There's a certain kind of consciousness that Western society values and that is a

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lit problem-solving consciousness, which actually is about 2% of our consciousness.

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The other 98% of our consciousness, Western society ridicules the views is criminalizes,

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demonizers, and most Western scientists would say,

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yes, these experiences are just brain candy.

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It's just absolutely meaning and not important at all.

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But scientists who've actually drunk Ayahuasca,

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rather than commenting about it on the basis of prejudice, as well as shaman's who use it to

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consistently in the amazement believe that it's about something else.

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It's about personal transformation.

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It's about seeing yourself as you really are and seeing reality in a much broader frame

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than just the bit of reality that can be focused on with a lit problem-solving consciousness.

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I personally am of this view.

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I believe the Ayahuasca is a transformative agent.

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Many people I think have a gut reaction against any notion of any chemical

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transforming us. It seems too easy, doesn't it? We've all grown up in the Protestant

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ethic and it seems pure aesthetic and it seems somehow wrong that we could be transformed simply

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by drinking a chemical. But yeah, yeah. But if you think about it, the brain is an electrochemical

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jelly and every experience that we have is mediated by electricity and chemicals in the brain.

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So altering the chemical balance of the brain may be producing experiences that are important and

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valid. I think they are and let's go ahead a bit further and find out one.

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From an anthropology textbook, is homo sapiens just a rather unusual African ape? Answer that

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question, yes, definitely. We are just a rather unusual African ape. The genetic difference

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between us and chimpanzees and gorillas is absolutely tiny. We're extremely close to them.

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And yet our behavior is obviously very different. We are running the planet. The apes are not.

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What happened to us that makes those tiny genetic differences so significant in the in the ground scheme of

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things? Here's the story of the human career. It's six million years of boredom.

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Starts, starts down here with the last common ancestor with the chimpanzee about six million years ago.

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We go up through the Australopathy signs. What's happening is that our ancestors are becoming

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more upright. We all know the story very well. Their brains are getting bigger. Their

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brow ridges are receding and this happens over a period of six million years. Until 200,000 years ago

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atomically modern human beings looking exactly like you and me with exactly the same

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brain size that we have in every respect identical to us appear. Now what's the story of human

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creativity during this period? Very dismal, very dismal. Actually this is the story of human

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creativity during this whole period. About two and a half million years ago, this stuff is

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introduced. It sticks for more than a million years. Nobody thinks to change it. No innovation,

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no creativity. Then the big move, this stuff is introduced. Sticks for another million years.

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Nobody changes it. 200,000 years ago, anatomically modern humans appear. They have our brains.

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Do they change it? No. They don't change it. They stick with it. They don't innovate. They don't

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create. They have no symbolism. They apparently have quite possibly no language. They are just

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tool-using apes. The question is, what is it that makes a human? Is it using tools? I don't think so.

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Crosse-use tools, chimpanzees-use tools, gorillas-use tools. Is it walking on two legs? No. Lots of other

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creatures walk on two legs. I think it's the ability to manipulate symbols to conceive of something

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that is not present in front of us. I think this is what makes us different from the other creatures.

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But you don't see any sign of that when the hardware is introduced. It's not until 40,000 years ago

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that suddenly all over the world and enormous change takes place. This change is best

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symbolized and typified by the amazing cave art of Upper Paleolithic Europe. The earliest cave art

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dates to 35,000 years ago and the latest to about 12 or 11,000 years ago. This is Pesh Mal Cave

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in France. You can see how they've used the environment of the cave as a setting in which to

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present us with this panel. This dates from 26,000 years ago, by the way. If we look closer,

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we can see that the natural horse-headed spur of rock has been instrumental in the decision to paint

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horses on this rock. But this far-fathers head has its own painted head here. This one also,

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and these are tiny, completely out of proportion, with the rest of the body. Look also at the

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dots on the horses. Are they just dappled horses? Well, not quite because dots extend beyond

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the bodies of the horses. What about these curious hand prints? This one with six fingers.

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So what it first seems like a rather realistic scene. On closer examination proved not to be so

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realistic. There's something in the artist's vision that we don't fully understand here.

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Andy showed this picture from Shovey. You can see here a figure of a man with the hind legs,

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the legs of a human being, the buttocks of a human being. But the hump of a bison, the head of a

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bison, underneath the prominent public triangle of a large woman. You can see her more clearly here,

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bison man here, straddling a woman. But she has a head. Instead her arm is transforming

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into the head of a lion. Now, for those who say that all the paintings of

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man animal combinations in cave art are just images of shaman's dressing up in animal skins.

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I would present this as a definitive answer that is not the case, because a shaman dressing up in

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an animal skin cannot transform his arm into a head. This is a process of transformation,

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lion woman and bison man. The human is conceived of as actually transforming into an animal.

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Polynstein's style cave in Germany, by the way Shovey is 33,000 years old, and this is from the

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same period, about 33,000 years old. Another lion man, and again the feet are in the form of

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lions pause as well. This is a transformed being, part human and part animal. Where did our ancestors

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get these ideas from? You don't see transformed beings in everyday life. You don't see part lion

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part human combinations. Here from Apollo 11 cave in Namibia in South Africa, the earliest surviving

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rock art of the shaman, the hind legs are interpreted by archaeologists as human, but the four

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parts, as feline. So again we have a lion man here, same from the Dracansburg in South Africa.

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By the way, I did I say that Apollo 11 cave is 27,000 years old. This piece would be much younger,

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probably seven or eight thousand years old at the moment. But again it's a lion man.

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Now if we go into the Dracansburg mountains, a piece about 3,000 years old from the sand bushman,

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it shows two figures which are Eland men, they're Antelope men. They have the heads of Antelopes

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and the bodies of human beings. But this one additionally has feathers growing out of his back.

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And this one, if you see these rather lumpy object around his body, that's actually two

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serpents that are coiled around the body of the human being there and lo and behold, both of those

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serpents also have the heads of Antelopes. Again clearly this is not modeled on something

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seen in nature. This is there some kind of event going on in the artist's mind which is

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which is leading him to see this extraordinary imagery. I'm just going to run through a number of

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comparisons mainly from Upper Paleolithic Europe and from the art of the sand bushman of Southern

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Africa to make the following point that the clues that will help us to interpret this art are

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in the art itself. Notice these patterns, the dots, the zigzag lines, the grids here.

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This from France of course, this from South Africa. These two are from South Africa,

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these from France. And I begs, one horn is good, the other is a zigzag line. A human being with

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his legs transforming into a zigzag, an animal with a grid imposed on its body there.

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Here from the Cedarburg in South Africa zigzag lines imposed over the figure of dancing women

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and these curious diamond patterns down here. We need to understand what these patterns are

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about and why they appear with figures of animals and human. Again a zigzag line, a wavy line,

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imposed on a figure of a bison, a bear with dots all over its body.

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Back to South Africa, Internested curved lines, forming almost a boat shape to

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imposed over the figure of an animal. South Africa again, that boat shape is more fully elaborated here

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and we have half animal, half human creatures in it. Back to the Cedarburg, again that boat shape

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intonested curved lines and outers zigzag are kind of lozen shaped here and very similar patterns

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from Altamira cave in Spain. These cultures of course were not in contact with one another.

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There's an elephant with a super earth grid from South Africa, needless to say you don't see

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elephants with grids on their bodies in everyday life. Glasgow, two ibexes separated by a grid.

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What is that grid doing there? El Castillo cave, more grids and flows of dots moving down

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through them in this very open manner. It was the early precursor of the windows logo there.

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Cedarburg, a window shape with flows of dots going through it.

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Bracken'sburg and Altamira cave ladder patterns.

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In fact, if we come to the Neolithic period and we go to North Passage Graven in Ireland,

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you'll find this panel which again contains many of the same zigzag diamond shaped patterns,

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starbursts, internested curved lines. Clearly whatever was inspiring the upper paleolithic artists

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to paint these patterns was inspiring the Neolithic artists who and of course these patterns are

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are very common in Neolithic art. It was Neurosychaeological research that gave the first clue

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as to what all these commonalities are about between cultures that had nothing whatsoever in common

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with one another.

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In most cases, this Neurosychaeological research into altered states of consciousness is done by

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getting human volunteers, exempting them from the law and giving them powerful hallucinogens,

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typically LSD, Mescalin, SILOTI bin or DMT, and they then report what they've seen,

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what kind of experiences they've had, what sort of visions they saw.

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Can get exactly the same reports of exactly the same visions from other techniques of putting

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people into altered states of consciousness. It's the altered state of consciousness that matters,

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the method of getting into it can vary. There's a huge range of techniques, rhythmic dancing

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is extremely good and that's what the sand in South Africa used. They do not use drugs. They dance

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for about 24 hours until they enter a space and then they see the visions. Now, these visions

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have been codified by Neurosychaeologists into stages in the first stage. They're called

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these patterns are what are seen in the first stage, zigzag lines, starbess, etc. In the second stage,

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we start to construe them into shapes, then typically volunteers report passing through some kind of

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vortex and at the end of the vortex, they emerge into a completely altered reality where

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beings that we never see in daily life are encountered. The modern volunteers very frequently see

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human animal hybrids as well. If we go to the first stage of this process and we see all these

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where these patterns are seen, they're called in top tick phenomena and enough research on this

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has been done worldwide to codify a kind of chart of the main and top tick phenomena.

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The first scholar to realize that there was a connection with art was Gerardo Rachel Dormatov,

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who wrote a book called The Shaman and the Jaguar, where it was with the Tukano Indians in the

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Amazon. He found that after their Ayahuasca sessions, because they drink Ayahuasca twice a week,

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that they would sit down and paint patterns the next day on bark, sometimes on the ground,

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sometimes on the sides of huts. Those patterns are, of course, the same as the endoptic phenomena

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registered by Western volunteers in altered states of consciousness.

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David Lewis Williams of the University of Witt Wattersrand in South Africa took this whole analysis

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much further and he's demonstrated, I think it's quite clear, that the main characteristics of

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the patterns in upper Paleolithic art are virtually identical to those recorded by Western

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volunteers today in visionary states. And we sign the same patterns occurring in the rock art of the

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Sam in South Africa and in the rock art of the Koso in the California Great Basin.

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Now, the last of the Southern San were not wiped out until the 1920s and anthropologists were

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able to work with them and they were able to speak for themselves. They told us that their shaman's

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danced all night until they bled from the nose, that their spirits then left their bodies and

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they went into another world and that's where they saw these patterns and shapes. Same with the Koso,

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we can't go back and talk to a shaman from the Paleolithic, but it's a good deduction,

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since the patterns and shapes are the same, that we are dealing with artists who had the experimenting

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with altered states of consciousness and that in these altered states they found the inspiration

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for the art that they created. Now, as I mentioned, our stages, let's look at it across the three

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different cultures, the Sam, the Koso and the Paleolithic art. Her blinds into a boat shape

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construed differently here. We can see in stage two more complex imagery appearing and in stage

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three we finally begin to meet beings who don't look quite like every day being we meet on earth.

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And those beings are also reported by modern lab volunteers and very frequently take the form

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of man animal hybrids. Now shaman's all over the world emerging from altered states of consciousness

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induced by whatever means also routinely report and frequently paint visions of man animal

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hybrids. We're looking at an imagery from South Africa here about 3,000 years old humans

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transforming into fish. Here from one of Pablo Amaringos Ayahuasca paintings, again, same idea,

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humans transforming into fish and it would seem reasonable to suggest that it is the

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common inspiration from altered states of consciousness that provides this common imagery.

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Here again from South Africa we see perched on a zigzag and in topic pattern we see these curious

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creatures which are human beings transforming into antelopes. Let's not pretend that these are

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human beings dressed up in animal skins. They are in the process of turning into antelopes.

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And I think it's obvious when we find precisely the same kind of creatures, part animal

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human hybrids painted in the upper paleolithic that shaman's were involved and that they depicted

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very similar hybrid beings because they were in very similar altered states of consciousness. And I'm

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happy to say that this is in fact the majority view in the world of anthropology now. It's very rare

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that I find myself agreeing with academic. But the academic analysis of caveart mainly the

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work of David Lewis Williams has been an extraordinary breakthrough and helped us to reach out and

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touch the minds of those early artists. And it is possible for us to share the experiences of those

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early artists but most of the academics stop short at that point and don't want to experiment

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with altered states of consciousness themselves. Here's a painting from a Jivaro shaman in eastern

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Ecuador under the influence of Ayahuasca and very similar to this bizarre creature from the cave of

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Lasco in France. Let's look again at this wonderful painting of Pablo's and let's look at some details

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from it. Here from the Drackensburg, a human figure with a serpent called around it and here from

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Pablo's paintings, a human limb with a serpent called around it. Obviously similarities here with the

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patterns of dots. Again let's go into this picture a little bit. Let's take a look at those

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Jaguars, the way the these dots outline the outside of the body. Find exactly the same thing in a

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South African hybrid animal, Eland Feline with the dots again outside the body.

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The Cano Indian shaman after drinking Ayahuasca paint these patterns. Remembering what they saw

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in an altered state of consciousness. We find virtually identical patterns on the

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Megolithic art, the Neolithic art all around the world here from Gavriness. Is it too great to leap

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to imagine that those artists in the Neolithic cultures were also experiencing altered states of

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consciousness and this is why they're showing the same things. But let's look more closely at

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some of Pablo's amazing Ayahuasca pictures. Here we see the familiar cast of characters, the

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the part human, part animal figure, the amazing colors. But up here we see something most unusual.

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We see what we would call a spaceship, some sort of flying saucer. Now what's Pablo Amaringo

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in the middle of the Amazon doing seeing flying saucers under the influence of Ayahuasca. What's

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going on here? There's another of Pablo's pictures. Again there's a flying saucer in it.

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Note this tree, by the way, coming to life here with the intelligent heads in the tree.

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It's also under my own Ayahuasca experiences. I kept a notebook afterwards and I was amazed

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to have what I would have to interpret as a near-abduction experience by aliens under the influence

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of Ayahuasca. Now physically I certainly wasn't being abducted. I was sitting on the floor of a jungle

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I didn't go anywhere but my mind had some kind of abduction experience. This is odd because I've

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never been a big fan of aliens. I've never thought I needed aliens to explain the mysteries of prehistory.

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I always thought it could be explained fully in human terms. These images of these this

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particularly this distinctive sort of high domed forehead and narrow pointed chin and sometimes large

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dark eyes. This image would just thrust itself upon me without any prior thinking about it during the

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Ayahuasca session. If we go back to the painted caves there are in fact objects on the walls that

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do look a bit like this one from Alta Mira. This curious object from Bernifah. We would

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see something like that flying around in the sky today we would call it a flying saucer.

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And in the arts there are also beings that we might call aliens today.

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Beings with high pointed high foreheads and narrow pointed chin. Here's a fling object and a

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being associated with it. This one's from South Africa, this one's from Pesh Malkade in France.

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And if we look a bit more closely at this fellow here we can see that he has the high domed forehead,

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the narrow pointed chin and the large dark eyes of the kind of being that people would typically

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call aliens today. And of course nobody would believe them but that's what they would call them.

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I think the similarities are fairly obvious. Now I do think there's a connection but as I

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state here I don't think that such experiences have anything to do with physical aliens coming

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here on nuts and bolts, spaceships from other parts of this physical universe. I think that the

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latest manifestation of extremely ancient non-physical spiritual phenomenon. But I also think that

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phenomenon is real. I do not think it is an illusion that I will come to this as it all on.

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These images are called mianters by the archaeologists. You find them all over the cave ceilings

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typically dating back to 30,000 years down to about 12,000 years ago.

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Except one of them, one of these four images actually wasn't painted by an upper paleolithic artist.

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It was painted in it was drawn in 1990 by an American woman who believes that she was regularly

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abducted by aliens. And she said before the aliens abducted her, they projected this image into her mind.

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And it's this one. This is from 1990. All the others are from 15,000 BC.

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Van Bushman images. The sand were destroyed by the whites in South Africa, but their cousins,

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the Kalahari Bushman still preserve many of the sand traditions and perform the transdance

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and their shaman still speak about their experiences and their shaman speak about

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climbing threads of light to objects in the sky. Many UFO abductees have the same experience.

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Sometimes they just draw them up into the sky. Sometimes they actually see a thread or a rope of

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light that carries them up into the sky. And I think what's going on here is, is

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construed. The same experience is being construed in different ways by different cultures.

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When we see beings like this, well, we're from the generation that invented space travel.

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We've sent them into the moon. It's natural to us to think that creatures like this must come from

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other planets and have an interest in us that came to them kind of interest that we might have in

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another planet. So we call them aliens today and we think that explains them. But you don't have to go

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very far back to find identical kinds of beings being called something else being called fairies

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and elves. And in fact, fairies and elves do very many of the same kind of things to human beings

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that aliens supposedly do. Typically abducting them and leading them to be ridiculed. People who

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believe in fairies are of course, first of all, the lunatics and so are people who believe in aliens.

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But maybe what they're having is a real experience which they're trying to interpret and explain

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in terms of their own culture. It's not widely known except by people who study the

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youth a literature very carefully, but often the alien abducters first present themselves in the form

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of animals or part animal parts human hybrids. These ones arrived in this little spaceship

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and this is what they looked like to the Malaysian schoolchildren who drew them in 1973.

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Often the alien will first appear as an owl, sometimes as a part animal part human hybrid,

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sometimes in a fully animal form and then will transform into the more recognizable gray or whatever

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narrow pointed chin and high domed forehead. I'm reminded of the spirit animals of shaman's

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which also frequently abduct shaman and take them away. That's the experience that they have

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very frequently owls are involved. And we find owls with hubanoid characteristics painted in the

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painted caves. This is an engraving from a fair cave in France about 17,000 years old.

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And sometimes we see these beings transforming into animals back in the cave painting or fully

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transformed into animals or part animal part human figures. And in this case in an object that is

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clearly in the sky in relation to this figure here. There is often associated with the human form,

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but very frequently we find described as part animal part human and sometimes fully transformed

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into animals. I think there's something in common with all of this. Here's a woodcut from the

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14th century, fairies dancing in a ring partially tripped on between humans and animals.

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The medieval fairy Melucine was greatly feared and she's another one of these part animal

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human hybrids. She's part serpent part human. She was feared because she used to abduct human babies.

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Well, of course it's well known that those who believe they've been abducted by aliens

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very frequently report encounters involving babies. The abduction of human babies.

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Almost a kind of breeding program that the aliens are somehow to be breeding with human beings

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and producing hybrid babies. And some of the abductees experience being taken up into the sky

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and actually cuddle or hold a hybrid baby in that state of mind. Again, many shamans believe

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that they have a wife or a husband in the spirit world. In fact this belief is so strong

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amongst shamans that of course is then problems with their wife or husband in this world.

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They're being unfatled to him or her with a spirit in the other world and they believe they

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have babies in the other world. But another curious comparison there.

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Now the research that really shed light on what's going on here was done by Dr. Rick Strasman

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at the University of New Mexico. He was the first researcher in the United States to get permission

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from the federal government to conduct a detailed program with human volunteers and hallucinogens

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for more than 20 years. And Rick gave his volunteers DMT in injectable form. 80% of them reported

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the kind of experience that others would describe as an alien abduction experience. And we know

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they weren't abducted because they were right there on the hospital bed in front of Rick Strasman.

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They're consciousness, however felt like it had been abducted and they met beings

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exactly like those that we call aliens. Now Rick's suggestion. The DMT is making

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its experiences possible. It is not creating these experiences. Rick points out that the

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pinnial gland in human brain produces DMT. Though DMT is illegal every single person in this room

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is carrying in the center of their brains and illegal drug right now. And that illegal drug is

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DMT. And Rick's suggestion is that those who have alien abduction experiences and in the past they

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would have called them fairy but some unstill called them spirits are either those who spontaneously

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overproduced DMT. And that seems to be about 2% of every human population or they are those

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who are able to re-tune the receiver wavelength of their brain by adding some suitable chemical.

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Most of the time we are tuned into channel normal but Rick points out that some of the other

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stations that we can tune into may be just as important as channel normal. Perhaps even more important.

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And as I say the facilities are there. Plants have evolved along side us over thousands and

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hundreds of thousands of millions of years which if we consume them will allow us to slip into

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that altered state of consciousness and in Rick's view to change the receiver wavelength of the brain.

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And in fact it's certain that electromagnetic fields also do this and there may be subtle

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energies associated with particular sites and places on the planet which have a direct effect on

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consciousness and allow these kind of experiences in.

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I said at the beginning science is very dismissive of hallucinations and there's an automatic

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assumption that in the case of the perceptions that we call hallucinations the brain is simply

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making them up. You can actually put somebody who's hallucinating into a brain scanner and you will see

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definite changes taking place in the brain and the simplistic assumption of most scientists who haven't

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taken hallucinous themselves is that these changes are the experience. There's nothing more to the

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experience than that. The brain is just a factory. But I think this analogy helps to make clear

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how false that logic is because if you wanted to look at a particularly distant star you would have

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to focus your telescope to look at it and that focusing would involve changes in the relationship

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of the lenses inside the barrel of the telescope. You'd be quite wrong to say that those changes

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in the lenses were the star. The star is really there. The changes in the lenses allow you to see it.

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And this is the suggestion of what is really happening with the the shamanic plants that alter

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our consciousness that they are re-tuning the receiver wavelength of the brain and allowing us to

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pick up other realities that are all around us but that we normally do not attend to and normally

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can't see and that therefore these experiences are not brain handy but the possibility of opening

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a secret doorway inside our own minds and projecting our consciousness through into another realm.

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Of course there's a this is the large Hadron collider in Geneva, Switzerland.

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Quantity physics one of the reasons it's being built is to explore parallel dimension which

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quantum physicists are convinced exist. Maybe we don't need the largest scientific instrument

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on the planet and billions of dollars of expenditure. Maybe we've all got the instrument inside

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our heads already. Maybe all we have to do is re-tune the receiver wavelength of the brain

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and we can explore those other dimensions. And therefore when people in the past spoke of

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fairyland being taken off in the dance, taken inside a hollow hill to some other world.

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Maybe we should take those experiences a little more seriously. Maybe those were experiences

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of exploration of a parallel realm. So that's one possibility the secret doorway inside our

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mind. But again the mainstream scientific these extraordinary experiences that we call hallucination

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is the Arab no significance. And the suggestion is that somehow they're just hardwired into the brain.

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It absolutely beats me why a universal experience of contact with small beings who take us up to

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objects in the sky and conduct strange experiments with us should be hardwired into all our brains.

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I just don't understand why evolution would produce an experience like that.

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But nevertheless let's take this notion that hallucinations are hardwired into our brains.

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Seriously it's a parallel, a separate notion to the notion that the spirit world is real.

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Let's take these notions seriously and see where they lead us.

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Well there we are with the Ayahuasca combination. The shamans in the Amazan believe that Ayahuasca

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is an intelligent being and that it and the spirits it introduces us to pass onto us actually

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very vital and essential knowledge. The shamanic view is that we live with the spirit world,

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whether we like it or not. It is there. It interacts with us all the time. We can either stick

405
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:53,600
our heads in the sand, which is what Western culture is doing right now. But we can engage with it,

406
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,520
which is what shamanic culture is doing. And they believe it's important to engage with the spirit

407
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,760
and that huge benefits come to us as a result in terms of knowledge.

408
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:11,520
Here's DMT, the active molecule in Ayahuasca. Here's LSD. Actually they're both extremely closely

409
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:26,480
related, built around what's called a trip to mean ring. And here's the shocking truth about France.

410
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:33,520
It used to be said that he and Watson were inspired by the beer at the Eagle Pub in Cambridge,

411
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:41,600
but Cric admitted that this was not the case and that he had in fact been a regular user of LSD

412
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:48,080
during the 1950s. LSD was legal at that time and he felt that it enhanced his thinking power.

413
00:44:49,040 --> 00:45:01,440
And Cric admitted that he perceived the double helix shape while on LSD.

414
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:11,360
And interestingly enough, here from Pablo Amaringos Ayahuasca visions with closely related DMT,

415
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:18,400
we'd see again the double helix shape. Now the difference between Pablo Amaringos and Cric is that Cric's

416
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:24,400
mind was prepared. He could take that vision and use it. Pablo Amaringos mind is not prepared to

417
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:30,400
get into detailed modern chemical analysis. So he wouldn't interpret that as the DNA molecule,

418
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:37,680
but it's understandable why Cric did. Something else about Cric, which is really amazing.

419
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:43,360
This is the man, let's just make this clear. He won the Nobel Prize for establishing the structure

420
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:52,000
of DNA. I mean, if you want to talk about DNA, Cric is your man. Cric would have been horrified

421
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,200
at any notion that he could be associated with creationism. Cric was an atheist,

422
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:03,040
with a hard-line scientist who was absolutely against any notion of supernatural beings creating

423
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:10,720
life on Earth. And yet from purely from the scientific point of view, Cric could not accept

424
00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:18,960
that the DNA molecule evolved on this planet. He absolutely couldn't accept it. It's such a complicated

425
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,560
thing and its relationships with the proteins which others themselves complicated are so complicated,

426
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:32,720
that it's the idea that a primeval soup with molecules bumping into each other accidentally,

427
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:39,200
assembled that the amazing magic of DNA is rather similar to suggesting that a hurricane

428
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:46,400
in a junkyard could assemble a fully functional Boeing 767. No way, Cric couldn't accept that.

429
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:52,080
He felt that the DNA molecule could just didn't have time to evolve on this planet. The earlier

430
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,320
had life too fast for this to have evolved in any accidental way. And so he felt must have

431
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:04,160
evolved somewhere else. And his suggestion was that on a distant, in a different, Cric,

432
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:12,960
but far away, a planet revolving around a star evolved in intelligent life. And those

433
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,520
intelligent beings, more intelligent than us, more advanced than us in his scenario,

434
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:23,920
discovered that they faced certain destruction. Perhaps there was going to be a supernova

435
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:29,920
explosion in their immediate vicinity. Would fry their planet. They would not be able to get

436
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:35,760
themselves their own bodies out of there. The distances in interstellar space are just too great.

437
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:42,880
But what they could do was they could have the DNA of their planet survive. They could send bacteria

438
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:50,480
in spaceships out into the universe. It's called directed pansepermia. And this was Cric's theory

439
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:54,320
about how life started on Earth. This is not my theory. This is the Nobel Prize winner,

440
00:47:54,320 --> 00:48:00,400
this theory. But it started on Earth because a distant civilization sent bacteria to this planet,

441
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:06,320
they hit the early Earth, landed in the lifeless primeval soup, took advantage of it,

442
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:12,240
gam multiplying as bacteria do over billions of years. They gradually evolved into us.

443
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:26,160
DNA really amazing thing. It has an aphobetic character. It has these four bases,

444
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:34,640
adenine cytosine, guanine and phymi, ACG and T. You can actually think of them as letters or as a

445
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:43,040
code because the particular organization of groups of three of these letters tells the body to

446
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:49,760
assemble certain amino acids and to build them together into proteins. This is how our bodies are made.

447
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:56,000
It's by the genetic code and an alteration of the arrangement of those letters produces

448
00:48:56,080 --> 00:49:05,680
different kinds of bodies. The interesting is that our genes that do all of this assembly process

449
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:16,960
are just 3% of our DNA. The other 97% of DNA has typically intended to be called by scientists

450
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:25,600
junk DNA. And this seems to me an extremely unpassimonious suggestion that over billions of years

451
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:32,640
of evolution, 97% of DNA should just be junk. Parade around it, all our bodies and every animal's body,

452
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:41,520
and only 3% actually does anything. It would have confronted issues about himself that I honestly

453
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:47,600
believe would lead him one step on the road to becoming a very different person. I said that we feel

454
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:52,720
uncomfortable about personal transformation being so easy as drinking something. Of course, it is as easy

455
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:59,040
as that. Ultimately, chemical balance of the brain with allowed these experiences in. But what we do

456
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:05,440
experiences is up to us. The experiences themselves will do nothing unless we are prepared to transform

457
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:12,560
ourselves and to work with those experiences. You might must be prepared to do something with this material.

458
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:20,240
But when you mind is prepared, then I believe it can bring about a transformation. And I think we saw

459
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:26,160
that transformation. I think we saw it documented in what happened to our ancestors without extraordinary

460
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:31,840
change that took place after 40,000 years ago. I think what happened was that they stumbled

461
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:38,880
by chance across plant hallucinogens in different cultures at different times. Perhaps in northern

462
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:44,640
Europe it was mushrooms. I believe it was Silla Sib's semilantiata, the liberty cap that did the trick actually.

463
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:51,520
Initially, try to out as a food item. Had extraordinary experiences, started to see beings

464
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,960
that weren't there in front of them in daily life. I think it rocked our ancestors out of six

465
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:04,560
million years of nothingness and turned us into what we are today. It may be the case that we are going

466
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:10,560
to miss the boat on the next step in human evolution. If we allow our governments to continue to

467
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:16,480
dictate to us what we may and may not experience with our own consciousness, if I am not.

468
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:30,480
Thank you. If I am not sovereign over my own consciousness, then what am I sovereign over?

469
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:37,360
What is the point of talking about democracy? Endlessly, if our democracies

470
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,920
tyrannize our consciousness? What is the point of talking about freedom and liberty when

471
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:47,920
living societies that rule what I in the privacy of my own home, doing no harm to another human being

472
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:54,320
may or may not experience? Yes, I can experience wall to wall bubblegum television, but no,

473
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:59,760
I cannot experience a transformatory event in my own consciousness. Yes, I can get

474
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:10,720
drunk and fall on the street and vomit and have fights. No, I can't change my sense of reality.

475
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:18,080
Is that what it is? Our governments frightened that reality is going to be redefined and that

476
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:23,680
they are suddenly going to become completely pointless. Thank you.

477
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:33,840
Thank you.

478
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,120
Thank you. Thank you very much. Well, I have a very happy to take some questions. Yes.

479
00:52:52,080 --> 00:53:02,000
Yes. Yes. Yes. The gentleman asked me, was I aware that the genome of the cat has in the

480
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:08,960
middle of it a repetitive sequence of those chemical letters, CAT, CAT, CAT, CAT. It's a nice one,

481
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:15,360
I like it. Yes. What you have spoken of is an unscathed, given what you have not could be an

482
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:20,400
ancestral memory, what about the shamans that they believe that there was a certain time passed

483
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:26,080
actual entities that we were experiencing in the country. The shamans do believe that they are

484
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:32,480
dealing with actual entities. I think that's what we are dealing with. My own experiences with

485
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:41,040
Iho Askern with Ibo gain, with DMC, have very strongly made me feel that that is what is going on

486
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:49,760
here. For me, it's rather like going to an amazing other country that I've never been to before.

487
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:55,280
It's of course full of intelligent beings but they speak a different language from me.

488
00:53:55,280 --> 00:54:03,440
If I need to get to know them better, my sense is very much that this is real. We have

489
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:09,680
constricted ourselves in our definition of reality to the physical and material universe. Our

490
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:14,880
present religion, which is the religion of science, of course, is totally based on the material world

491
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:22,560
being the only world that exists. This is so short-sighted and so stupid. The possibility of multiple

492
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:28,000
other dimensions has been, it's a clear, there was a cross-art point where we stopped the

493
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:35,360
experience in the actual individual world when we found them. No, I don't think that's the case at all.

494
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:42,720
I really don't like this idea that if we ingest a plant that is somehow unnatural,

495
00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:47,200
whereas if we have it spontaneously, that is natural. In either case, what is happening is that the

496
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:52,560
chemistry of the brain is being slightly altered. We may do that by releasing an endogenous hallucinogen

497
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,960
like DMT from the Penaeal gland or we may have to consume that hallucinogen. But both are natural,

498
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:04,800
just as eating potatoes is natural. We are constantly ingesting and putting at chemicals.

499
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:12,400
I don't see it as unnatural. The historical record, the archaeological record shows that there

500
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:18,160
was no, there was really nothing. You can't find anything in the archaeological record that says

501
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,880
human beings, human behavior before 40,000 years ago. Yes, you can find tools. Yes, they were

502
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:29,440
hunting a bit. They weren't what we would call human. They were tool-using apes. It just suddenly

503
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:34,960
changes. I think that that sudden changes to do with one human group and then another accidentally

504
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:39,600
encountering hallucinogens and perhaps spreading the word and it goes around the world like that.

505
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:45,440
Yes.

506
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:56,560
That's natural as ABC. That is just a thought. Yeah, why not? Because a lot of the time people get put off by

507
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:03,520
my piety. Well, yes, that's an interesting point. You're right. People do get put off.

508
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:08,160
Now, why do people get put off by the notion of the supernatural? Because a lot of men in suits

509
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:13,760
have said the supernatural doesn't exist. That everything may be explained in terms of physical

510
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:21,840
and material causes. And priests, indeed. What the priests do is they say, we are the soul intermediaries

511
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:26,320
between you and the supernatural. And if you try to relate to the supernatural directly, then we're

512
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:35,920
going to do something nasty to you. In the old days, it used to be burning now. But yes, this is what

513
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,160
the established religions have done. You go to the origins of any of the world's religions. You're

514
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:48,080
going to find a shamanic experience. It's not Paul on the Damascus Road. The prophet Muhammad in his

515
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:56,640
cave meets a supernatural being who gives him the Quran. Joseph Smith meets the angel Moroni.

516
00:56:56,640 --> 00:57:02,320
All religions have these supernatural encounters at the beginning. Then within a few generations,

517
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,760
the moneymen and the bureaucrats stepping and it becomes a totally human institution. And

518
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:13,200
pretty quickly, they outlaw all to the states of contraption, immunize them and burn those who

519
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:24,720
can happen. Yeah. When you suggested that George Bush might have become a better person,

520
00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:35,520
if he had writing this geministic substance. Yeah. And I share the sentiment that you say,

521
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:42,080
we should also have experienced it. And I share the sentiment to a certain extent in theory and practice.

522
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:48,560
But I just would like to point out to the consequences, of course, of opening up this possibility

523
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:56,400
in our societies. Let's connect this with the question. What do you have been against a society

524
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:04,560
like Britain, 39, to withstand a murderous tyranny in Germany, where I come from,

525
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:11,040
would you be if you have been able to and would you have been in favor of it?

526
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:15,360
I think it's a very extent, of course, a sudden was said Iraq was a murderous

527
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:20,960
torturous regime as well. Yes. I think it's really important to to fight

528
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:26,080
murderous tyranny wherever we find it. I just don't think that's what George Bush is doing in Iraq right now.

529
00:58:27,040 --> 00:58:30,560
I don't think he's there to fight murderous tyranny. If he was he'd have been in a Rwanda,

530
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,960
he'd be in Darfur right now. He's not there. I don't think it's about fighting murderous

531
00:58:34,960 --> 00:58:40,800
tyranny. I think it's about extending American power and his particular egotric that's involved in this.

532
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:47,280
So I don't think your question really applies on that point. But I do, as humans, yes, we should

533
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:52,960
resist tyranny, definitely. Yes.

534
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:06,800
Yes, I have two chapters in the book, one on the Maya and one on the ancient Egyptians.

535
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:14,400
And a combination of blue lotus, mandric and opium, it seems to have been the

536
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:17,600
percentage of choice.

537
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:25,920
Yes, that's good.

538
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:32,080
You mentioned McKana in your book, turns McKana? Yes. I thought there was some sort of weird connection between

539
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:39,040
there. Oh God. No. Thank you, Chinahana, not. I don't go into time wave zero. What are your thoughts

540
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:43,920
in the book? I don't have any. Actually, to tell you to tell you the truth. The idea

541
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:52,000
that we're heading to a zero point in 2012 or some of the maybe. You spoke about grid change

542
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:58,080
four thousand years ago. Yes. Maybe that's part of the novelty in the one in the living.

543
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:00:08,000
Yeah, I think that we could, we could have like that again today. If our societies weren't so

544
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:15,200
hard driven, once or anal, once so controlling, we're prepared to let people explore their

545
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:19,840
full potentials human beings. I think we would have a huge change in the world. I think that

546
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:27,040
changes being held back by legislation at the moment. More than half the people in prison in the

547
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:36,000
United States today are there for so-called drug offense. And I have to say, although it may seem,

548
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:43,120
it may seem irresponsible to some. I have to say that I am in favor of a total legalization

549
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:47,440
of all drugs. I think that human beings have to be trusted as adults. I don't think our

550
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:51,920
government's job is to look after us as citizens. I think it's to do what we tell it to do.

551
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,440
Yes. Yes.

552
01:00:59,520 --> 01:01:07,920
With the gentleman right there. My question relates to the end of your book when you're about to go

553
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:12,480
into another experience on socials replay. Yes. I've been intrigued to know what happened.

554
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:21,120
I didn't take enough mushrooms. I didn't. I do find, I do find silesside in quite scary.

555
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:28,960
I don't know why. I've been, um, betten setting a very important part of it. But I had a wonderful

556
01:01:29,040 --> 01:01:34,800
set on setting that day. There's something about silesside in that I just, I'm slightly

557
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,920
sinister. There's no reason to suppose that the other world is all good.

558
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:45,680
Any more than this world is all good. If we deal with the spirit world, we're dealing with powerful

559
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:50,480
forces. And those powerful forces can be negative as well as positive and they can play on the negative

560
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:58,320
parts in our own. So it takes strength to resist it. Of the substances I tried,

561
01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:04,240
now many people have had wonderful experiences with silesside. I never did. And that day at Avery,

562
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:09,840
I really should have taken like another 50 and actually I took another 5. But I kind of chickened out.

563
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,080
Yes.

564
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:27,280
You didn't actually mention Jeremy Navi's book. I didn't today. It's as mentioned that great length

565
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:36,240
in my book. I know Jeremy personally we stayed with him in Switzerland and I extensively refer to

566
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:41,200
Jeremy's work in the book. I was just interested when you were just commenting now on the sort of

567
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:50,640
negative sources. To those who are known as the system of the first group to be had and there was

568
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:57,280
this huge person telling him that he had the present to the light source and he's up and I just

569
01:02:57,280 --> 01:03:02,640
wanted to. And I thought that was really interesting as a kind of in a way telling us,

570
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,640
yes I think it is telling us. I think that was a few good things for me.

571
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:14,800
Thank you. Personally I believe in such a thing as good and evil. And I think rivers of goodness

572
01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:19,600
and evil flow through this world and I think they flow through all other worlds as well. And I

573
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:27,360
think in each case the position of an intelligent sentient being is to make a choice. Personal choice

574
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:34,320
in that direction. So the fact that there is evil in the spirit world just as there is evil in this

575
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:41,440
world is not a reason not to go there. It's a reason to be careful. Yeah.

576
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:50,240
I'd like to ask whether during your I wasca experiences in South North Central America,

577
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:56,400
whether you were able to look up into the sky and see what John made to Jenkins calls the

578
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:03,360
who now kill the black hole at the centre of the galaxy. He has a theory that it can be seen

579
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:10,160
whilst on I wasca. Yeah. I'll have to try that out in Brazil. I didn't on the last visit now.

580
01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:16,720
Yes. What about people who take hallucinogenic drugs for recreation? Is that not a wrong

581
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:23,760
class to go down? I think I wouldn't censor people for taking hallucinogens for recreational

582
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:30,400
purposes. Nothing wrong with having fun. I think that I gave the analogy of the telescope

583
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:37,760
or the re-tuning of the receiver wavelength of the brain. And I think that with human beings

584
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:43,760
part of the process of re-tuning the receiver wavelength of the brain is the chemical you

585
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:50,880
ingest. And part of it is your purpose in doing so. And part of it is the setting and the

586
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:57,920
circumstances in which you do so. So if you take a powerful hallucinogen purely for recreational

587
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:03,360
purposes in a recreational setting and with no other personal inquiry in mind, that's likely

588
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:09,520
what will happen to you. You'll have a recreational experience. I think that you need to focus

589
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:20,480
your will and to approach the thing in a in a in a in a serious and and in acquiring manner

590
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:27,440
in order to have these these shamanic experiences, it may happen that the plant will overwhelme

591
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:33,120
you in a recreational experience and put you into shaman world. But it's less likely to happen.

592
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:40,000
So I wouldn't say no to it but personally I wouldn't take them for recreational purposes.

593
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,640
I would I think these are very very powerful things and I would I would always take them

594
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:50,240
for some kind of consciousness development purpose and and that would be conscious in my mind

595
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:57,760
in the process of doing so. How many more questions do you want to take? Five. Five. Yes.

596
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:12,080
But I ask is there any idea what these psychoactive substances are doing in the plant?

597
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:19,600
Are they just for us? Are they plant the plant's defense system? No they don't really

598
01:06:19,600 --> 01:06:23,360
seem to be part of the plant's defense system it's not clear what they're doing there. It's very

599
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:29,040
it's very odd. Yeah I think they've co evolved with human beings and I think they are there for us.

600
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:33,760
That's that's my old view. I think they're there for us. I think they're part of the garden

601
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:38,400
that's waiting for us to explore and I think they're there for a reason. Yes.

602
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:54,160
This gentleman in the races. I'm dying of my talk. Thank you. Can you equate conscious of

603
01:06:54,160 --> 01:07:03,760
expansion with moving into the spiritual world? Yes. It's the same thing. I think it's not inevitable

604
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:09,440
that moving into the spirit world will lead to consciousness expansion but I think it's likely to.

605
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:13,840
I think it helps and I think it helps because it confronts you with experiences that you don't

606
01:07:13,840 --> 01:07:18,400
have in this world and you have to deal with those experiences and one way or another. It also

607
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:25,680
is something very curious about Iahuasca and Ibu Gain which is another story altogether. Something

608
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:31,760
very curious about these two substances is that the Ibu Gain experience lasts for anything

609
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:38,960
12 to 24 hours. It's very very long. The Ibu Asca experience lasts for about three hours but during

610
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:44,480
the experience at a certain point in the experience you will undertake a full journey into yourself.

611
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:52,800
I found myself bringing to mind events that had taken place when I was 11 years old

612
01:07:53,680 --> 01:07:59,360
and I'd forgotten about them completely. They came back to mind during the Iahuasca experience

613
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:09,280
and I found myself realizing that on that day in the summer of 1961 I had done something

614
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:15,360
that subconsciously for a long time I'd really regret it and hadn't felt comfortable with and it

615
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:20,000
brought it up to the forefront of my consciousness, made me deal with it, made me deal with it,

616
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:25,440
made me deal with lots of issues in my life. I'm not saying that I've necessarily become a better

617
01:08:25,440 --> 01:08:32,720
person as a result. I think probably probably I haven't but I've understood faults and weaknesses

618
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:38,800
in myself better than I did before and it's up to me now to do something with it. For example,

619
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:46,320
the tendency to get wildly angry at a second's notice that I found myself really regretting and

620
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:52,560
thinking what a bore, what a bully and what a fool I was to get so angry with that person in that

621
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:58,640
situation. There's a journey of personal self-assessment that takes place. It's often very painful.

622
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:02,240
You're confronted with realities about yourself that you prefer not to know but if you

623
01:09:02,240 --> 01:09:06,240
deal with those realities I think it can improve you as a person and just a final word,

624
01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:13,040
thank you for this question. Just a final word on that is the fantastic success that Ayahuasca

625
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:18,240
and Ibergain practitioners have had in getting people who are addicted to hard drugs,

626
01:09:18,240 --> 01:09:25,520
off those drugs. Both Ibergain and Ayahuasca, the huge untold story, have produced, I would say

627
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:31,200
almost supernatural results in ending drug addiction with people who want to end their drug addiction.

628
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:36,000
Very often it's because they have a personal experience that they understand why they're addicted

629
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:42,800
and the next day they have no craving and no withdraws and they're off it. Quite amazing.

630
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:47,920
Yeah. I'd like to ask you a question about the timeline you presented between the

631
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:53,200
Paleolithic and the Neolithic. Yeah. Suddenly in the Neolithic you get these exquisite geometries coming

632
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:58,880
out in stone circles and in the stone balls that were dredged up in Aberdeen fields from time

633
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:04,960
Yeah. They don't appear in these earlier pictures apparently. No, because they weren't,

634
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:09,760
they weren't placing their art in built structures. They were taking advantage of natural structures

635
01:10:09,760 --> 01:10:14,800
and the suggestion would be that Andy talked about the deep caves and connected it to

636
01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:19,920
bombardment of cosmic rays. Cosmic rays actually may be a very important issue in changing

637
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:24,160
human consciousness and I don't reject what Andy said there at all. I think it's a very interesting

638
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,680
point but the other suggestion might be that this artist put in the deepest part of the case because

639
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:35,840
that most perfectly recreates or recollects the experience in the old state of consciousness

640
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:41,600
of passing through the vortex. But I mean you produced pictures of governance which was going on

641
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:47,280
in parallel with the stone circle geometries of the same period. That's right. Yeah. In the region.

642
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:52,560
Clearly something, clearly something was added in the Neolithic but something was also taken away

643
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:59,680
because there's much less of the representative iconic art. It's mainly patterns in the Neolithic.

644
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:03,920
It's mainly the endopctic phenomena rather than the fully iconic figures.

645
01:11:08,480 --> 01:11:14,480
That gentleman there. And then the gentleman that I did with the glasses.

646
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:25,040
Hi Brian. Hi. Link between the submerged cities of the west coast of India and people's fears

647
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:32,800
about rocking the status quo in relation to the haters and sauma. Interesting. Well,

648
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:42,000
sauma and again there's a chapter on this in the book. The substance called sauma in the Vedas

649
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:48,480
almost certainly was a plant hallucinogen. Exactly which one it was is widely discussed but

650
01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:53,520
it almost certainly was a hallucinogen. And if you read the Vedic text with that in mind you can

651
01:11:53,520 --> 01:12:01,520
immediately see what's going on. I don't think the work in the Gulf of Cambe and the hold-up on

652
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:07,360
that work has got anything to do with that issue. I think what it's got to do with is that the

653
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:14,560
archaeological survey of India were very much their leading lights were very much trained and

654
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:22,080
schooled in the British mode of archaeology and they have absorbed and internalized the British

655
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:28,800
version of Indian history. Whereas others in India are very committed to a totally different

656
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:33,920
notion of Indian history which takes it back much further into the past and that notion is supported

657
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:39,040
by the underwater cities of the Gulf of Cambe and actually I've seen a political conflict between

658
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:43,600
these two groups which has resulted in a deadlock and virtually no further work thing done.

659
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:56,640
Yes. Hi. I said at the start that Supernatural is something of a departure.

660
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:02,080
Yeah from your usual territory. It is something you're planning to continue looking further into

661
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:07,760
where you're going to make a return to that sort of. No. I'm going to continue looking further into

662
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:15,600
it exactly where that's going to take me. I'm not certain yet. I spent best part of 15 years of

663
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:24,240
my life working on the issue of a loss civilization. I put myself on the line for that issue

664
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:29,920
ultimately with underworld where what it's not that I put in something like 2000 dives, scuba dives

665
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:34,640
all around the world looking for underwater ruins and literally did risk our lives. I've been

666
01:13:34,640 --> 01:13:41,760
fried by the academics. I've been insulted and abused all over the planet and I finally decided

667
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:46,560
I did enough on that subject. I did everything that I could do. I took it to the final limit.

668
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:51,760
I went diving all around the world. I found stuff. If I go on writing about this all I'm going

669
01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:56,400
to do is repeat myself. I'm not going to bring something new and in addition to the dissatisfaction

670
01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:00,800
of repeating myself I'm going to go on getting slagged off by everybody on the planet. So I thought

671
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:07,280
it's time for a change. Thank you. Thank you.

672
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:21,920
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