1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:18,000 Good morning, I'm Carol Randolph and welcome to Morning Break. 2 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,720 What has happened to L. Ron Hubbard, founder of one of the world's wealthiest and most 3 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,720 controversial religious groups, Scientology? 4 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:30,720 One of the issues to be discussed this morning with my first guest, Ron DeWolf, who is the 5 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:31,720 son of the missing L. Ron Hubbard. 6 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:34,720 Let's give him a big round of applause, please. 7 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:39,720 Welcome. 8 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,720 In 1972, you alleged in court papers that your father had lived a life characterized by severe 9 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:49,720 mental illness and physical disease, consistent failure, and the use of false and fraudulent 10 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:56,720 off-time criminal means to cover up these failures and to acquire wealth, fame, and power in 11 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:58,720 order to destroy his perceived enemies. 12 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,720 What made you draw those conclusions? 13 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,720 What did you see that led you to that? 14 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:04,720 Because I lived it. 15 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:12,720 Ninety-nine percent of what my father wrote and said about himself is totally untrue. 16 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:21,720 And millions of people have taken this false data over a period of thirty-some-odd years and 17 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:28,720 relied upon it and built a set of beliefs and built an organization. 18 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:38,720 And basically, those allegations that I made were true because throughout up to 1959, I was 19 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:39,720 deeply involved in all of it. 20 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:41,720 What did you see specifically? 21 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:42,720 I mean, give me an example. 22 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,720 When you say criminal means, like for example, what did you see? 23 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:53,720 Fraud and deception, the involvement with, in the early days in Phoenix, Arizona, for an 24 00:01:53,720 --> 00:02:00,720 example, in 1952, the involvement with organized crime, the... 25 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,720 Organized crime in what capacity? 26 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:15,720 The use of Scientology money, his own money, to finance drug importations into the country 27 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:16,720 from Mexico and Colombia. 28 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,720 You saw these things? 29 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,720 Yes, I was involved with several of the incidents. 30 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,720 You recorded any of this? 31 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:24,720 You have papers to prove? 32 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,720 Could you walk into court and prove any of these allegations? 33 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,720 I didn't think for years that I could. 34 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:31,720 Most of it, I thought, was buried. 35 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:38,720 But I think now, since I have been speaking out, that there has been evidence being brought 36 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,720 forward proving those allegations. 37 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,720 Why did you leave the church? 38 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,720 Because of these allegations, these things that you... 39 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,720 Well, I left the church for a whole wide variety of reasons. 40 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,720 It isn't a very simple answer. 41 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:59,720 I left because my wife wanted me to, and also because I wasn't making any money, because 42 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:03,720 all the money flows, of course, to my father always has. 43 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:10,720 I was also tired of the fraud and the deception, plus his deep involvement in personal use 44 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:14,720 of drugs on himself and others, black magic. 45 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,720 When you say black magic, what are you talking about? 46 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,720 I mean, some of the things that I read in this stack of material, it sounds just absolutely 47 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:22,720 unbelievable. 48 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,720 What are you talking about when you say this? 49 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:34,720 Well, the funny thing is that the actual truth is about as far out as Scientology itself. 50 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:41,720 Really, the basis of Scientology, which is rather hidden and covered over, is the occult, 51 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:48,720 deep involvement with satanic powers that he felt that... 52 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:55,720 He was deeply involved with a British black magician called Alastair Crowley, 53 00:03:55,720 --> 00:04:00,720 and through putting himself in deep hypnotic trances and the use of drugs on himself, 54 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,720 he wanted to become the most powerful being in the world. 55 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,720 Did you consider all of this a religion? 56 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:07,720 No. 57 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:08,720 Do you now? 58 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:09,720 No. 59 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:10,720 Why not? 60 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:12,720 Because it's a business. 61 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:13,720 It always has been. 62 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:19,720 I was one of the incorporators of one of the original church organizations, and we incorporated 63 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:29,720 just because the AMA and the IRS were giving him a lot of problems in the early 50s. 64 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:31,720 What was your relationship like with your father? 65 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,720 I mean, for a lot of people, they would say, well, maybe you're doing all this because 66 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,720 you did not have a good relationship with your father, or maybe you're doing all this for 67 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:39,720 the money. 68 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,720 Why are you taking these steps? 69 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,720 Because I want to see the truth. 70 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,720 And I can't expose my father without exposing myself. 71 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,720 I mean, my life is pretty messed up and goofy anyway. 72 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:58,720 And, in actual fact, who really belongs in this chair is Earl Ron Hubbard, my father. 73 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:05,720 But why I'm doing it is let's lay all the facts out and let people decide. 74 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:10,720 I have a copy of a letter that supposedly came from your father where he talks about the 75 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,720 fact that your mother was an alcoholic and that she deserted both of you and that you're 76 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,720 not in any position to know about him or the church. 77 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:19,720 Do you believe this is an authentic letter, first of all? 78 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:23,720 I really don't know, but I know that he has his facts all followed up. 79 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:24,720 Such as? 80 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,720 Well, that he didn't know me very well. 81 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:36,720 The fact is, from 1952 to 1959 I was very instrumental in and around the organization and the formation 82 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:37,720 of it. 83 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:44,720 I was director of training, taught many, better than 20 advanced clinical courses. 84 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:51,720 I was chief instructor, traveled to England half a dozen times, lived with him. 85 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:56,720 So you're saying you're in a position to really know your father and the church and the workings 86 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:57,720 of the church? 87 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:58,720 Oh yes, very much so. 88 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,720 Why do you believe now that, or do you believe now that your father is alive? 89 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,720 I personally don't believe so. 90 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:06,720 Why not? 91 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,720 I really don't know. 92 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:16,720 That's just, as I said, a personal belief, but I think that if he is alive, he is certainly 93 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:21,720 quite incompetent to handle his own affairs and is being grossly manipulated by the people 94 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:22,720 around him. 95 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,720 People such as? 96 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:32,720 Well, in my petition we named, I believe, a 22-year-old boy with about a ninth grade education 97 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,720 named David Miscavige, who is one of them. 98 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,720 And this is a person who belongs to what is called now the Sea Organization, is that correct? 99 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:50,720 Yes, the Sea Org, and that is the, it sort of could be considered the SS Army. 100 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:51,720 Now, would you explain that? 101 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,720 I mean, who are these people? 102 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,720 And why have you labeled them that? 103 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,720 Because they're very much parallel, a Hitlerite type organization. 104 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,720 And you realize that's very difficult for us to understand that. 105 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,720 Here we are sitting in America today in the year, 1983, and you're telling us that there's 106 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,720 a group of young people who are like the SS. 107 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:13,720 Why? 108 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,720 I mean, how were they indoctrinated? 109 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:16,720 Where were these young people? 110 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:18,720 Where would they have gotten this concept from? 111 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,720 Gotten it from my father. 112 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:28,720 They were raised in Scientology, and all they've known is Scientology and my father. 113 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,720 Were they isolated from the outside world altogether? 114 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:37,720 Not altogether, but pretty much kept in a very tight group. 115 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:44,720 And, of course, outside contact and outside communication has always been kept at a minimum 116 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:45,720 over the years. 117 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,720 When you say SS, I think about harassment, intimidation, even death threats. 118 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:49,720 Have you had any of this? 119 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:50,720 Oh, yes. 120 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:51,720 All of it. 121 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:56,720 I've been the subject of what's called the Fair Game Doctrine, which has been in existence 122 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:57,720 since the mid-50s. 123 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:04,720 That simply says that anyone perceived as an enemy of L. Ron Hubbard or Scientology can 124 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:12,720 be attacked, sued, lied to, deprived of property, and even destroyed without any discipline or 125 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:13,720 retribution from the organization. 126 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,720 Someone has actually tried to kill you? 127 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,720 Yes, I believe so, about three or four times over the years. 128 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,720 But not now that you're out here public? 129 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:24,720 You have not received any more threats? 130 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:26,720 No, not since I filed my petition. 131 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:28,720 They've been rather quiet since then.