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Guys, what's going on? We are back, episode three of season two of the show. I'm here today with

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Elliot Overton. Elliot's a pretty prolific YouTuber. He runs Objective Nutrients and

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Thiamine Protocols and really is the leading voice when it comes to vitamin B1 therapy.

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Elliot, thank you so much for coming on, man. Thanks for having me on.

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So obviously, a lot of things we want to talk about today, the mRNA vaccine being one of them,

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EMS, TBIs, a lot of rabbit holes. But I think the one thing that you've really brought to the

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surface and really are the most outspoken proponent of is vitamin B1 or thiamine. Now, that's one of

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the many B vitamins. It seems to be the one that stands out as the most important to a lot of

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people. I think it used to be vitamin B12. That's like the one that everyone focused on. A lot of

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us focus on vitamin B6 for good reason, vitamin B2. But B1 is the one that keeps on coming up and

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standing out. I'm curious why out of all of the nutrients, out of all the vitamins in the world,

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B1 was the one that stood out to you. What was that process of you honing in on vitamin B1 of all

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things? Yeah, it was just by chance, honestly. I'd gone through training as a nutritionist. I'd done

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further training with two of the big functional medicine schools. And when you do that, you learn

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nutrient protocols. You learn about therapeutic use of different vitamins. And as you kind of touched

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on, there's been a lot of attention given over the years to all of these different vitamins used in

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high doses, used for different conditions. You've got the niacin therapy for schizophrenia,

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for psychiatric conditions, for heart conditions. You've got a lot of the talk on methylation, looking

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at B6, B12, folate. You've got a lot of attention on the fat-soluble vitamins, vitamin D. I mean,

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that's worldwide now. But I had not learned much at all about vitamin B1. And frankly, no one does.

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And so I always just thought, you know, I learned in nutrition school that, well, vitamin B1 deficiency

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was discovered basically 100 years ago. And it was treated via fortification of food. And it doesn't

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really exist these days. It's only alcoholics or people with certain medical conditions like, you know,

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a problem with their digestion and malabsorption and inflammatory bowel disease. These are the only people

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who become deficient in this nutrient. And I couldn't have been more wrong, honestly. I stumbled across the work

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of a fellow who is, rest in peace, he actually passed away earlier last, well, last year at the

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age of 100 years old. His name was Dr. Derek Lonsdale. And he was really the pioneer who had

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been communicating with some of the Japanese scientists as early as the 1960s and 70s, and

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really brought the concept to light in the Western world, at least in the US. He started treating children

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with autism, children with neurodevelopmental conditions. And his practice was also dealing with

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people with autonomic nervous system problems. And he discovered that, or what he theorized at the

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time was that what you would call dysautonomia, conditions which feature problems with the

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balance between the parasympathetic and the sympathetic nervous system, he suspected that a lot of the times

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that was a hidden vitamin B1 deficiency. And so his entire body of work, his whole career was really

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dedicated to this, and he dedicated his life to trying to raise awareness of the potential

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therapeutic value of this vitamin. But frankly, no one listened. It's really quite bizarre.

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And so I stumbled across his work, and I purchased a book not long after it had been published. It's

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called Thymine Deficiency Disease, Disautonomia and High Calorie Malnutrition. That was published in

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2017. And I dug into that, and I devoured every single piece of material that I could get hold of.

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I was amazed at how few people were talking about it, and I began using it. I began using his protocols

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in my patients. And at the time, I was starting to, just around 2018, I was starting to build up an

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online following. So I was getting patients from all around the world, getting contact for online

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consultations. And I was experimenting in these individuals with this therapy. And it was frankly

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amazing, the results that I was getting. It was bizarre. And so I'd go onto YouTube, or I'd go into

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PubMed or whatever, and there were barely anyone talking about it. And so I kind of,

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yeah, that became my thing. I wanted to learn as much as I could and communicate that to as many

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people as possible, and deepen my own understanding and raise awareness. And so that's really how it

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became my obsession for the best part of the last six or seven years. Interesting. It really is

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fascinating. And the way that I came across B1 was because I was, I wanted to be like a holistic

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degenerate, right? I was looking at what I did. And I was drinking alcohol, I was having a lot of

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caffeine, I really enjoyed nicotine. And as I was building out protocols on how I can do those

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responsibly, every single time, it's like, what does this deplete, it depletes B1. So that was

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super interesting to me. Now, one thing that I do notice myself doing, and I'm not even an expert,

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but there's this idea of like expert blindness, subject matter experts who dedicate their lives

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to a specific domain, oftentimes miss the forest for the trees. And I'm sure you've become aware of

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that. And like, you probably feel that pull of like, everything's a nail to a hammer. Why? Like,

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do you think that there is some level of that with B1 that like, yes, B1 is important, but it may be

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that B1 is part of a larger thing? Is there a larger thing that vitamin B1 can be encompassed

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under? Or do you think that B1 really is like a, would call it a root cause?

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I think it depends on the context. But indeed, any, if you speak to anyone who specializes in any

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particular field, especially health, then there is always that pull. And it's important to be aware of

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that. And that is something that I've been accused of, you know, over the years. If you go on my

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YouTube channel, probably half of the videos are on thiamine. And that's one of the things that people

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bring up a lot. They say, well, if everything looks like a nail, and you, whatever that saying is, I

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forgot the same, but essentially, yeah, you perceive everything through that particular lens. And in this

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context, I think it's true. And we have to be aware of that. However, I would say that I do feel

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as though thiamine is somewhat unique, and there are some kind of biochemical justifications for that.

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So there's something of the two. And oftentimes, people will come across my work and assume that I

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am making the point that everyone is going to perceive said benefits that I speak about or that

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other people get. And that's simply not true. And that's something that I do try to articulate and

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really emphasize to people when I do give lectures, or when I'm giving talks or whatever, is that this

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is probably only applicable for a minority of people. And we don't know what that minority is. But it's

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not going to be ever applicable for the majority. However, what I also like to emphasize is that many

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people, at least in the alternative health space, or who have some kind of chronic health condition,

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and they've been to multiple different practitioners, or let's say they're just trying

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to optimize their health, and they're not feeling quite well, most of the time, they won't have tried

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B1. Because the educational system, and I'm not just talking about the conventional medical

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education system, I mean, even the alternative functional nutrition space, there is vitamin B1 gets

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a fraction of the attention that it should have. Because what that ultimately means is that

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many of these people will have tried every protocol, but they've not tried B1. So no one has been

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there to shout at them and say, No, you need to try vitamin B1. And, and I think that's one of the

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reasons why, if you go through my channel, you look at the comments, look at my emails that I get the

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kind of testimonials, you see that people see such benefit. I think a lot of it is the surprise is the

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surprise that they've been working on this for five or 10 years, they've spent 1000s of dollars on

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functional testing. They've done all kinds of protocols, all kinds of restrictive diets. And

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all of the time, like the whole time, it was actually that they were dependent, or they required

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a high dose of vitamin B1, because this seemingly simple vitamin comes along, and they start taking it

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and actually eradicates most of their health problems. And it seems a little bit too good,

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good to be true. And I'm not saying that it's a panacea, it's definitely not a cure all. And

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that's really not the impression that I want to give anyone. However, I do believe, and this is

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take this for what it's worth, I can't prove this, although I'd like to prove it one day. I do believe

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that there is something unique about vitamin B1. And that is, Lonsdale would describe it as the

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conductor of the orchestra, you need the orchestra to play the music, right? So you've got all of the

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nutrients, all of the cofactors, all of the wonderful things that we get from food. But B1

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takes center stage to some extent. And I do believe that is true. And I do believe that we can

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justify that in some way by looking at the biochemistry and looking at some of the research.

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And now I've spoken about this at length in other places. But I do believe that

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in organisms across the board, including in human beings, but also in fungi, in bacteria,

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and in plants, vitamin B1 appears to have an anti-stress property. And if you look at the

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plant literature, it's been referred to as an environmental stress protectant. Without going

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into too many of the details, there are lots of lines of evidence which would suggest that vitamin

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B1 is one of the first nutrients to become depleted, or let's say, to increase in demand under any

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conditions of stress. And I'm not just talking about hormonal stress, you know, plants don't have

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emotions, they don't have a HPA axis, but they do have stressors, stressor being anything which

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increases the demand on the cell. And so what I believe is, is that in our modern world,

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because of the wide variety of stressors that humans are exposed to, and because of this kind

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of uniquely anti-stress property of vitamin B1, I believe that it's in greater need than ever before.

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And so I do think that there is something quite unique about it. And that's one of the reasons why

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I talk so much about it. I get that 100%. I think that is by far the best framework to look at any

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vitamin in isolation, not disparaging the other essential nutrients, but saying, hey, this is the

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one that seems to be taking the brunt of depletion or having the most issues with our inherently toxic

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modern world. That's what put me onto it as well, is just identifying all of the things that can inhibit

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our ability to absorb vitamin B1, or just to use up vitamin B1. It just seems very susceptible to

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depletion, much like mitochondria. From an organelle standpoint, mitochondria are in a similar

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category for me, where it's like, that is the organelle that takes the majority of the damage.

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That is the organelle that needs the most support. And it just so happens that all of us as humans

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are oftentimes susceptible to the same types of stress, right? Whether it be electromagnetic

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frequencies, whether it be dietary or environmental contaminants. So that's super interesting to me.

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Now, I guess there's a thousand things we can talk about in this. Let's just talk about

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what causes vitamin D1 depletion and deficiency. And then what are some of those side effects as

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well? And then we can go into what things have been found to be well treated with vitamin B1.

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Okay, yeah. So from a purely nutritional standpoint, there are a couple of things that will,

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I don't want to necessarily say deplete. Some things can deplete B1, other things can just

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increase the demand. So if we're working with these kinds of definitions, well, alcohol can

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deplete B1. So alcohol consumption, it destroys B1 in the GI tract. It prevents your intestine from

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absorbing B1. It actually prevents your cells from uptaking B1. So that's why alcoholics or anyone who

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consumes a high quantity of alcohol over long periods of time are going to be susceptible to a B1

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deficiency. Other things, so there are certain tannins found in tea, found in coffee, found in

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some of the polyphenols, found in certain berries and things. With high consumption, I don't know how

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relevant this is in real life, but I think it's cumulative and I think it's additive. So for instance,

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if you're doing lots of different things, if you're consuming lots of these foods,

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then that could have an effect because what that does is it inactivates B1 in the gut.

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Raw fish that contains an enzyme called thiaminase. This can also be a problem in

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rural communities in like Southeast Asia. But for the most part, there are also certain bacteria,

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for instance, bacteria in the gut. If someone has a type of dysbiosis, they can produce enzymes,

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which also inactivate the thiamin molecule. So those are the main things that kind of deactivate

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thiamin. But I would say probably the most common cause from a nutritional perspective of a

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depletion, let's say, it's going to be consumption of carbohydrate or refined carbohydrate.

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So your listeners are likely familiar with the concept of macronutrients, micronutrients,

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right? So the macronutrients give you the energy or the building blocks to make things. You've got

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your protein, fat, carbohydrate, but to utilize those, you know, to actually break carbohydrate

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and fat down for energy, you need micronutrients. To utilize protein, you need micronutrients.

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They get run through lots of different steps. So to actually utilize those macros,

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you need the microbes. And your microbes is your vitamins, is your minerals, is your other

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cofactors that you're going to be getting in whole foods. That's why whole foods are so important.

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But it was found very early on that your carbohydrate intake must be proportional to your

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thiamin intake. And that's not like gram for gram or anything. You need a fraction of the thiamin

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to burn the carbohydrate, but essentially to effectively use glucose at the cellular level

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to not only make energy, but also to use glucose as a building block through the pentose phosphate

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pathway, you need B1. And actually B1 appears to be the most important for glucose breakdown for energy.

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And what that means is that consumption of refined glucose, you know, if you're going to eat a food with

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carbohydrate, if it's a whole food, chances are it contains thiamin. If you're eating other whole foods,

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the thiamin that you're obtaining from those foods is going to help you metabolize those carbs.

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But in our modern world, particularly in the US, in the Western world, where we have a lot of these

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refined foods, what you do is you take out the glucose or you synthesize or whatever. And what

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you're doing is you're not replacing the thiamin. And this really occurs for nutrients across the

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board, but it's particularly important for B1. And that's one of the reasons why a B1 deficiency is

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extremely common in the US, extremely common, because of the standard Western diet being highly

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processed. And so that is going to be hands down, without a doubt, the most common cause of a

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deficiency or depletion, let's say. But if we want to get even a little bit more complicated,

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well, I would say a lot of the people who are seeing benefits from using B1,

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they have, I mean, I can speak from experience. I've consulted with hundreds of people who have

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been on very good diets. They've had, you know, they've been working on their nutrition for a long

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time. They've been taking supplements. They've been taking B complex and all of these other kinds of

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things, organ meats and whatnot. And yet they still respond to B1. And so something else that can also

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cause a depletion or an increased utilization or increased demand is actually completely separate from

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dietary intake. And this is something a lot of nutritionists and doctors find very difficult to

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understand. But I think it is really a key concept to understand why or how this is working so well

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is that, remember, I said before, you have these increased demands placed on cells when they're

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under stress. And so what you see is as a cell is trying to adapt to a stressor, whatever kind of

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stressor it be, so let's say hypoxia, what it will do is it will increase the activity of certain enzymes.

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And as part of that mobilization response, you run through your nutrients, you run through your

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micronutrients. And so I believe that probably the single most common cause of people's increased

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demand for thiamine, aside from purely eating junk food, is going to be chronic disease and the

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mechanisms involved in whatever chronic disease that is. So that could be inflammation, it could be

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oxidative stress, it could be impairments in digestion, you know, a lot of people have gut

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issues and they they're eating a very good diet, but they're not able to properly utilize the food

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because they can't properly break it down and whatnot. So there's a lot of things that go into this, but I

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suspect that a large chunk of the people who do respond or require high doses or require substantial

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kind of repletion of B1 are going to be people who, who, who have these kinds of chronic disease

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processes which are under the surface and which are increasing the demand at the level of the cell

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rather than anything that's external to themselves, like what diet they're consuming, if that makes

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sense. Understood. That makes total sense, right? It's like an inefficient engine. It's going to require

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more fuel just to operate at like base level maintenance. And, you know, even regardless of how fast

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it's going or like how much carbohydrates are giving it fuel in that instance, like if it's not

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functioning properly because of some chronic condition, it's going to require more of those.

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I would like maybe call it like a co-factor. Yeah. So in terms of, I mean, I always just see vitamin

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B1 treatments pop up in so many different disorders, right? You mentioned autism for one,

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anhedonia is another big one. What are some other clinical conditions you found that people or,

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you know, uh, patients seem to respond well to the introduction of vitamin B1?

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Yeah, of course. Well, there, there are, there are some key systems which are involved and I would say

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I've treated people, um, with a number of different conditions with like a diagnosis. I think diagnosis

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a lot of the time is just putting a name on something that people don't really understand

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because a lot of the time it does come back to, to essentially a bioenergetic deficit. You know,

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what we're looking at here is that mitochondria fell or stopped working and wherever that occurs

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in the body, that's given a particular kind of name, a diagnosis. If it occurs in the brain,

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it might be Parkinson's disease or Alzheimer's disease or whatever. Uh, if it occurs in the gut

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or in the heart, in the heart, it's called heart disease in the gut. It could be ulcerative

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colitis, but at the very root cause it is mitochondria and it is dysfunctional mitochondria,

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which predispose or which is kind of the initiating factor for that disease process.

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Okay. So that's, that's the assumption that we're working from. And I think that's a fair

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assumption to make at this point. So when we factor that in and we factor in that thiamine

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is ultimately, um, necessary for your cells to make energy in the mitochondria, we have to

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understand that really wherever there is dysfunctional mitochondria, thiamine might be involved

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in therefore thiamine might be able to have a therapeutic effect. Okay. However, I will say

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that thiamine does appear to have, uh, let's say an affinity for a couple of different organs. So

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if you look at the classical deficiency state, it's called beriberi, and it can really affect

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three main systems. The first one is going to be the brain. And, and, uh, as an offshoot of that

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is going to be the peripheral nerves. And so someone might develop first a numbness or a tingling or any

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kind of neurological problem, uh, peripheral neurological issue, like a pain or paresthesia

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or something. And this can mean that they lack mobility or can just mean that they have, uh,

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strange sensory feelings in their hands and their feet. It can affect, uh, deeper levels of the brain.

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And eventually it can cause a condition called Wernicke encephalopathy, which is kind of complete

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paralysis. They lose control of their eyes. Um, they lose their memory. They get anhedonia. They get all

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of these other kinds of weird symptoms. It can affect the heart because, um, and really the way

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to understand this is that the organs that need the most energy that have the highest requirement

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for energy are going to be the first hit. So your brain and your heart, you know, your heart needs

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to continually beat and your brain, if you lose energy in your brain, then the rest, you know, you

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basically your whole body shuts down. So your heart and your brain really important because of the

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density of mitochondria and therefore a lack of B1, well, it can cause heart failure, it can cause

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vascular problems. It can cause all kinds of issues with the heart. And the third one, which is the,

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let's say the least acknowledged, but I've actually just written a paper on this and it's, it's currently

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in peer review and this is on the gut. And this is probably the most surprising thing that many people

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find is, is that sometimes the first place to, um, to identify, to indicate a deficiency is actually a

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slowdown of the motility and the secretion of every one of the digestive organs. And so, you know,

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how many kind of, um, how many, uh, diagnosis, functional diagnosis there are with gut health,

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right? It's gut disorders are the most common diagnosis in the doctor's office in the entire

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world, functional gut disorders. And this can be SIBO, this can be IBS, it can be, uh, acid reflux,

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gastroparesis, it can be, um, constipation, and then it can progress to things like inflammatory

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trouble disease. And what we know now is that thiamine can independently, a deficiency in B1

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can lead to all of those things. And in a lot of people, you'd be amazed how many people actually

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find that despite they've done probiotics and elimination diets and all of every supplement

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under the sun, actually, when they take the right form of thiamine in the right dose, um, that fixes

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their gut issues. And so that's bizarre. So, so again, brain, heart, and gut. However, if you're

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looking at the, the other conditions that, that this can be used for, that there is a good body

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of evidence and I've seen it personally, and I know several, I know of several thousand people

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online, not personally, but I know of them, um, who have effectively used this to treat some pretty

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odd conditions. So one of those is Parkinson's disease. Um, there are people, um, Parkinson's

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disease is an incurable condition, right? There is no, there is no cure for that. And it's considered

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progressive. Um, there are individuals now who are in upwards of seven years, complete remission

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using only thiamine. So just thiamine alone at a sustained dose. Um, and sometimes they are able

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to come off of it. Other times they're not able to come off of it. So it's not a cure, but it is a

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treatment and it's better than any drug that we know of. Um, again, this isn't medical advice, but I

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can tell you, I've got a lovely lady who I actually interviewed on my channel. She's still in

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remission. I believe that's nine years on. Um, there was a doctor, his name was Costantini and

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he was treating all kinds of neurological conditions with thiamine alone. He was using either very high

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doses in, um, in oral, or he was using intramuscular injections. Now he has a couple of studies showing

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that in, in some of the milder phenotypes of Parkinson's, they achieve complete remission with

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thiamine and they, uh, retain complete remission. However, there were also other, uh, some

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some of the other neurological conditions, which also respond to this, um, the essential

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tremor, any kind of, um, dysautonomia of any kind. So it can be postural or static

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dechocardia syndrome. It can be, um, there, there are, there are, there are several types

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of dysautonomia that, that can potentially respond. Um, what we also see is that fibromyalgia

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Costantini in 2013, he, he published a case report. It was only three individuals, but I have

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personally verified this and it's my number one go to treatment. And I know there's, there's entire

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groups dedicated to this online using it in, in very high doses to, um, to see sometimes 70 to 80%

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improvement within a couple of weeks in both pain and fatigue scores in fibromyalgia. And that's what

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Costantini found as well. Um, if we look at the gut, as I said, SIBO and anything where there's poor

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motility, uh, so that can be in the stomach, it can be in the small intestine or it can be in the

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colon. Um, alternatively, any issues with secretion. So if there's hyperacidity, hypoacidity, if there's

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issues with producing, um, the intestinal mucus, which is important for the, for the gut barrier

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function. If there's any issues with making pancreatic enzymes in China, Japan, they used to, there are a

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couple of case studies using thiamine to treat, um, pancreatic insufficiency. So problems with how

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the pancreas is actually, um, we making enzymes. We know that thiamine is also important for how the

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pancreas makes insulin and how it secretes insulin. Uh, those are, those are some of the conditions

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heart failure has been trialed in, um, any problems with circulation. Diabetes is getting a lot of

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attention, uh, diabetic peripheral neuropathy, glucose handling. There's a type of B1 called

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benfotiamin in a lipid soluble form, which is showing great results in improving hyperglycemic

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effects. So the problems to the endothelial vascular, uh, function that occurs with, with

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high blood glucose, benfotiamin can counteract a lot of those effects. It can improve, um, glucose

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uptake. It can improve insulin sensitivity. It can reduce what's called the hexos, hexosamine

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pathway, which leads to advanced glycation end products. Uh, so that's, that's, that's diabetes.

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There is a lot of evidence coming out now, which is directly pinpointing impairments in

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thiamine metabolism in some of these really nasty neurodegenerative conditions. The main

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one that's got a lot of the spotlight recently in, in the past five or 10 years, it's Alzheimer's

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dementia. Um, there is a $300 million trial going on at the moment at Cornell, I think it

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is, uh, and, uh, doctor, his name's Garrett Gibson. He is trialing benfotiamin for Alzheimer's

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disease because what they found is that the pathogenesis of Alzheimer's in the brain is very

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similar to, uh, an intracellular thiamine deficiency. They have found evidence of thiamine

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deficiency localized to the brain in Alzheimer's when it's not systemic is just occurring in the

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brain. And they've been finding amazing results using high doses in that condition. There was

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recently a study on Huntington's disease. Again, these incurable neurodegenerative conditions,

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Huntington's is also considered a death sentence basically. And, um, they've recently found that

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the, the, the part of the brain, which, which degenerates in this condition, uh, there's a

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problem with getting thiamine into the, into that region. So they, they were running a trial on animals

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and they found that by giving high doses of B1 and biotin, um, they could offend, uh, effectively,

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um, resolve the Huntington's symptoms. And another one is ALS. I don't know if you know

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anything about ALS. It's called amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. It's probably the worst

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condition that I can think of anyone getting because it is like a death sentence within four

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or five years of diagnosis. Well, they recently found intracellular B1 deficiency in the brain

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in that condition. And in animal studies, they were using super high doses of different types

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of thiamine. And they found that it basically reversed the phenotype as well. So what a lot of

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this points to is that B1 appears to exert very substantial protective effects on mitochondrial

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dysfunction across the board. And for that reason, they've, there's a lot of researchers

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who are calling it a mitochondrial, um, protectant. So they're using it regardless of the condition.

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If there is any element of mitochondrial dysfunction, then thiamine appears to be playing a protective

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role. And that is particularly relevant in the brain and in neurodegeneration. There's mechanistic

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reasons that we could talk about, or we don't have to, but it is quite complicated, but it comes

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down to different enzyme systems that react under stress. And, um, and one of those is called

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alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase. And this isn't just with chronic disease. This is also with

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something, um, seemingly completely unrelated, such as traumatic brain injury. And you, you asked about

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traumatic brain injury. Well, my colleague, the one who I've, I've actually been writing this paper

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with, she's a genius professor in Russia. Her name is Victoria Bunik, and she is just so

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forward thinking and creative in the way that she designs experiments. She hypothesized that

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traumatic brain injury, one of the mechanisms by which it caused damage, long-term damage was because,

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uh, because the effects on mitochondria, she, she, she hypothesized that they could be rescued by

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giving high doses of thiamine. And this is going to be, for those who don't like animal experiments,

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it's not a very nice experiment, but it's, it's genius. What they've done is they've taken one

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group of mice that exposed them to traumatic brain injury. Then they sliced open the brain and they

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measured the, um, the effect on the brain. What they found was, I don't know if you know much about

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the process of TBI and let me know if I'm talking too much, by the way, and just interject if you need

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to, but in the process of TBI, uh, a lot of the times the long-term brain damage occurs not as the,

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uh, result of the initial injury. It's as a secondary result.

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Of what they call secondary inflammation. And so what happens is, is you get this,

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you get this major trauma and this leads to all of these inflammatory cytokines and these

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various chemicals. You get high levels of this molecule called nitric oxide and all of this

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stuff culminates in, in dysfunctional mitochondria. And that's kind of like the initial event.

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And then the dysfunctional mitochondria have this secondary effect to lead to this inability to

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control the immune response in the brain. So you end up with this, like this long,

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longstanding inflammation, which causes, you know, hypoxia and problems with cerebral blood flow and

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everything like that. And I'm not a neurological specialist, but that's my basic understanding of

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it. Now, the fascinating thing was, was they, they measured a lot of these metabolites after TBI.

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They found that there was high levels of a neurotransmitter called glutamate, which is

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considered the main, it's the NMDA receptor, the thing which acts on those receptors and is highly

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excitatory in the brain. High levels of this, high levels of nitric oxide, low levels of ATP,

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high levels of inflammatory cytokines. So they have this group and they say, yeah, okay,

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this is what happens during TBI. So what they did with the other group was they gave them massive,

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and I'm talking massive doses. I can't remember exactly how many milligrams per kg,

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but it was insane. They gave them massive doses of B1 prior to the TBI. Next, what they did,

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they exposed them to the exact same TBI injury. They measured their brain. They found that the

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thiamine through, sorry, something I missed. In the original experiment, one of the mechanisms or the

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initial mechanisms of action was an inhibition of an enzyme called alpha-ketoglutarate dehydrogenase.

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Why is that important? That's because that is considered the rate-limiting enzyme in the TCA

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cycle. For your listeners, rate-limiting, what that basically means is that when that slows down,

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every other step also slows down. So if that's not working well, you can't make energy full stop. So

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it's really important, really important enzyme. Anyway, so they megadosed this other group,

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they bashed them on the head, gave them TBI, then they measured. And they found that the thiamine

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given prior to TBI was able to prevent the inactivation of this key rate-limiting enzyme.

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And what they found was that despite having a really bad injury to the head, their mitochondria

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kept working. So they didn't have all of these knock-on effects that you would see in the other

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group. No glutamate excitotoxicity, no massive increase in nitric oxide, not as much inflammation.

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Of course, they had inflammation. They just got bashed on the head. I mean, who isn't? But

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ultimately, they didn't have this massive inflammatory cascade. They didn't have this

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massive oxidative stress that you saw in the other group. And so what she basically, they repeated this

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in a couple of other experiments, one in spinal cord injury as well. And they found the same thing.

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And the overall kind of conclusion, I don't want to put words into her mouth. I know that she's

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cautious about the kind of statements that she makes. She's a scientist through and through.

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But really, what you can take from this, this work highlights this highly protective,

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prophylactic effect of taking B1. And this is completely unrelated to dietary status.

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These rats or these mice were not deficient at all. They were not deficient. And it was showing

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that you can have something, this external stress, this external injury, which could essentially

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be counteracted by taking this special nutrient. And so there's a lot of evidence like that,

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you know, and we think that that might be how it's working in Parkinson's disease. It might be how it's

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working in Alzheimer's disease, ALS and Huntington's and maybe some of these other conditions in that you

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have these toxins or you have these stresses or these inflammatory factors, which block mitochondrial

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function. And one of the main ways that they do that, and this isn't everything, but one of the

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main ways that they do it is they act on those rate limiting enzymes. And so if you can give

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something which can reactivate those inactivated rate limiting enzymes, then you can maintain the

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flow of bioenergetics. And that means that you're going to have more resilience to deal with the

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initial stressor. Okay. And that is probably how things are working, at least partially. I want to

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say that there are also lots of non-coenzyme effects of B1 that not really many people know about and

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are still being studied. So it's a whole field that, you know, is kind of booming in the research now.

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And I do hope that with RFK involved, we may see more funding given to utilizing nutrients instead of

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hardcore pharmaceuticals with difficult side effects. There are a lot of very interesting

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effects that can be achieved with vitamins and minerals when looking at these chronic diseases.

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So I hope that that answers your question. Sorry, I've been talking for like 15 minutes.

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No, absolutely. It's fascinating. I mean, I'm somebody who's racked up a lot of TBIs in my day

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and the reality of it and the unfortunate realization of it is a lot of it isn't about what to do after,

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it's about what to do before in order to prevent that cascade of progressive damage that seems to

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occur when that neurological infrastructure is damaged. So, you know, one of the things that

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comes up a lot with that as well as creatine. And, you know, it seems like I like doing TBI

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inducing activities like wakeboarding and MMA and dirt biking. So it makes sense for me to supplement

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creatine, vitamin B1 and large amounts of DHA from my diet. Now, one thing that comes up when it

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comes to B1 in particular is the dosing and differentiating between high dose therapeutic

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treatment and supplementation. For example, I have both of my parents on low dose vitamin B1

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because they enjoy drinking wine, right? They consume a lot of tannins, right? They haven't had

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like the most healthiest lifestyle because of careers and because of just, you know, a literal

378
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:28,140
generation of toxin exposure. But I'm conscientious about the dose. And what my curiosity is here

379
00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:32,980
is, is this one of those things like, for example, agmatine sulfate, where somebody takes 500

380
00:35:32,980 --> 00:35:38,900
milligrams, they don't really feel it, they don't like it, but the therapeutic outcomes don't occur

381
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:44,320
until you do like a two gram dose. If somebody were to take vitamin B1 in a small dose, say,

382
00:35:44,420 --> 00:35:49,080
I don't really feel a benefit. I don't really feel anything. Does it warrant taking a mega dose? And

383
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,920
then the secondary question there is, what are the risks? I know that some people do have adverse

384
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:58,040
reactions to vitamin B1, and it could be for a myriad of reasons. I'm sure you've looked into that.

385
00:35:58,140 --> 00:36:05,180
But is there a clear difference? Is there a clear threshold in terms of therapeutic benefits when

386
00:36:05,180 --> 00:36:12,440
dosing vitamin B1? Yeah, so there certainly is. There is a threshold. And this is exactly what

387
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:19,820
Costantini found, especially in his patients with fibromyalgia. So when I just want to differentiate

388
00:36:19,820 --> 00:36:27,620
between what I would personally refer to as like dependency versus deficiency. And someone who is

389
00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:32,700
classically deficient, if they're just low, they've got low systemic levels, then taking a low dose is

390
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:37,000
probably going to be sufficient. And when you say, a lot of people ask, well, what is a high dose and

391
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,800
what is a low dose? There's not really any definition. I would say a low dose is anything

392
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:48,620
from 10 to 100 times the RDA. OK, so that would the RDA, the recommended daily intake is about one to

393
00:36:48,620 --> 00:36:53,800
1.5 milligrams. So I would say if you're taking 10 milligrams that you would might find in a B

394
00:36:53,800 --> 00:37:00,120
complex supplement or even 100 milligrams, that is what we would class as kind of a low or average

395
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:07,180
dose. When we're talking high dose, we can be talking up to 2000 or 3000 times the RDA,

396
00:37:07,180 --> 00:37:11,760
even upwards of that. So there is quite a substantial difference in different people

397
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:16,600
will respond in different ways. And we don't know exactly why that is. What you'll find is that

398
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,780
someone who, like your parents, they will probably get by. If you're just doing kind of like

399
00:37:21,780 --> 00:37:29,880
preventatively to prevent a deficiency and maintain a good amount to counteract what they might be

400
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:37,520
losing when they consume alcohol and things, then a low dose is probably going to be sufficient for

401
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:42,860
that. Whereas, like I said before, there is this threshold that we see usually in people with chronic

402
00:37:42,860 --> 00:37:48,020
disease. Or when I say chronic disease, it may not be a diagnosable chronic disease, but it is a

403
00:37:48,020 --> 00:37:53,440
particular health condition that they are trying to address with the B1. OK, so they've looked at the

404
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:58,120
B1 signs and symptoms and they've looked at their, they say, oh, well, I've got this major problem

405
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:03,980
with my brain and my neurological system. Taking a low dose is generally, it's a good starting point,

406
00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:09,500
but someone should never stop there because there is a threshold. And I mentioned Costantini,

407
00:38:09,620 --> 00:38:16,880
what he found in short was he found, he had three patients, right? Two of them. He started at 500

408
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,580
milligrams. Now this was with a basic form. We'll talk about the forms a little bit. It was with a normal

409
00:38:21,580 --> 00:38:30,360
form. So, thiamine salt. 500 milligrams, no change. 1,000 milligrams, no change. 1,500 milligrams,

410
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:40,960
1,500 times the RDA, right? 1,500 times, no change. However, when they, when they got to 1,800 milligrams,

411
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:49,720
they saw an overnight effect. And we're talking zero changing symptoms. They saw up to 80% improvement

412
00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:57,100
in their fatigue and their pain. I think it was 50 to 60% change in pain, 80% change in fatigue

413
00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:02,460
overnight after reaching 1,800 milligrams. Now, how the hell can anyone explain that?

414
00:39:03,060 --> 00:39:10,380
You know, that is not addressing a deficiency. Like whatever it is, or via the conventional way

415
00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:15,500
of explaining that, you can't explain that via normal, you know, pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics.

416
00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:20,560
You can't say, oh, well, you know, 1,500 milligrams didn't do anything, but 1,800 milligrams,

417
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,060
it must have just been addressing a deficiency. No, there, there, there is something else going on.

418
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,220
We don't know what it is, but, um, Costantini called it the all or nothing effect. And that is

419
00:39:30,220 --> 00:39:34,480
exactly what you see with people with specific health conditions who are trying to fix something.

420
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,580
Sometimes they will notice is no change whatsoever until they get to a certain dose. And that's what

421
00:39:39,580 --> 00:39:45,100
really introduces a lot of complexity, um, is, is kind of hard to convince people to do as well.

422
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:50,680
You know, people just think, oh, well, this, this guy, this guy thinks it's a cure-all. And if it

423
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:55,360
didn't work for me at 500 milligrams, then he just wants me to buy more of his product. You know,

424
00:39:55,380 --> 00:39:59,520
that's, that they think that's why I say that. And I don't, I say it because I've got experience

425
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:04,860
working with hundreds of people and thousands of people who've used my protocols now. And that is

426
00:40:04,860 --> 00:40:11,040
just what we see. And it's really difficult to do as an individual is to figure out how high to go.

427
00:40:11,140 --> 00:40:15,260
But what I can say is that some people, you find that even at a thousand milligrams of different

428
00:40:15,260 --> 00:40:20,500
derivatives, they don't see a change. And then there is an overnight, very sharp, immediate difference

429
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:25,600
when they reach a certain dose. Now there's certain theories for why this might be. It might be that,

430
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,580
you know, I spoke about the inhibition of different enzymes. Well, there is a theory that you have to

431
00:40:30,580 --> 00:40:35,740
saturate cells with a certain amount to weight those enzymes up or to deactivate them or to

432
00:40:35,740 --> 00:40:41,040
stimulate certain processes. It could be that you need a certain amount in the blood for a sustained

433
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:46,440
period to kind of send a signal to the body that it can start activating certain metabolic processes.

434
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,220
We don't know exactly why, because it's not been studied, but I can tell you in real life,

435
00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:56,040
it's certainly true. And so we have to differentiate why someone might need a high dose and why someone

436
00:40:56,040 --> 00:41:00,240
might need a low dose. Generally, people who are deficiency can start with a low dose and usually

437
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:03,760
they'll be fine. Like on a hundred milligrams, they'll start feeling better in a couple of days

438
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,820
and they don't need to go much higher. But those who have a specific health condition, usually if

439
00:41:08,820 --> 00:41:14,360
it's, especially if it's any kind of complex condition, like chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia,

440
00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:18,940
neurodegeneration, they usually need to reach their threshold. And we don't know what that is

441
00:41:18,940 --> 00:41:23,760
because it differs from person to person. Now you said about side effects. There are definitely

442
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:29,220
some side effects. That's for sure. Dr. Lonsdale characterized this. I feel like I've had to build on it

443
00:41:29,220 --> 00:41:36,560
because we've learned some things along the way. What I can say, remember I said that B1 might be

444
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:41,320
the conductor of the orchestra. Well, the orchestra, we have to remember the orchestra. You think of

445
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:46,160
your metabolism, and this is a highly simplified concept, very materialistic, reductionistic, but

446
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,100
take it for what it's worth. Your metabolism, think of it like lots of different cogs moving around in

447
00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:54,460
the machine, that when you turn one cog, it has knock-on effects on every other cog.

448
00:41:54,460 --> 00:42:03,080
And so when you drive substrate down different pathways, say you take vitamin B1 and you increase

449
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:08,840
the activity of certain enzymes, well, that has knock-on effects. And that also we have to

450
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:14,740
understand is that B1 isn't the only cofactor for these enzymes. You have all of the other nutrients

451
00:42:14,740 --> 00:42:20,900
which play their varied roles in different supporting enzyme systems. And so when you drive

452
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:26,360
one process, you can potentially increase the demand for other nutrients across the board.

453
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:31,560
I've personally found that, you know, Lonsdale would say, take a B-complex behind it. So whenever

454
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:36,880
you take a high-dose thiamine, always take a B-complex. Now, secondarily, you have to understand

455
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,560
that thiamine, when it acts as a coenzyme, it also works with magnesium. Basically, every single

456
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:49,060
enzyme it functions with. There's a lot of evidence going back to like the 1940s, which was looking

457
00:42:49,060 --> 00:42:54,360
at the interrelationship between B1 deficiency, magnesium deficiency. One can actually induce

458
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,980
the other. So it's always good practice to give magnesium alongside thiamine. And what

459
00:42:59,980 --> 00:43:03,760
I've personally found is that a lot of the negative side effects that people can develop

460
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:09,240
when they take B1, I'll tell you what they are. Generally, it is a feeling of anxiousness.

461
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,680
It can be insomnia. It can be rapid heart rate. It can be an increase in fatigue. It can be

462
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:19,460
like a thirst or increase in urination. A lot of these symptoms can also be resolved by taking

463
00:43:19,460 --> 00:43:24,440
extra potassium. And I think what is happening is, is that as you start to replenish B1 in someone

464
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,080
who's needed it for so long, well, you start building things at the cellular level. You change

465
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,480
from this hyper-catabolic state. And you often see this in someone's body composition as well,

466
00:43:33,540 --> 00:43:36,400
is that they can't put on muscle and they can't build things and they're kind of catabolic.

467
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,300
They're wasting away. Whereas when you give them B1, they start actually gaining an appetite.

468
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:46,300
They start getting really hungry. They become ravenously hungry. They crave carbohydrates.

469
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:51,920
They can actually use carbohydrates because remember this, a lot of guys, especially guys

470
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,820
who I work with, who've been carnivore, who've been keto, and they can't tolerate carbohydrates.

471
00:43:57,140 --> 00:44:02,160
They can't digest them. They get hyperglycemia. They get dizzy. They feel rough when they eat

472
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:07,180
carbohydrates. They need B1 because when you start giving them B1, they get ravenous for carbohydrates

473
00:44:07,180 --> 00:44:13,500
and they actually start building on mass. And that's great. So you move from this hyper-catabolic

474
00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:19,780
state, not only at the cellular level, but also at the level of the hormonal systems.

475
00:44:20,140 --> 00:44:24,640
You know, your HP axis is usually screwed when you need B1. Whereas when you start taking B1,

476
00:44:24,780 --> 00:44:30,420
it shifts towards this more kind of anabolic hormonal profile. Anyway, and because of that,

477
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:34,160
when you build stuff, you need electrolytes, particularly potassium. We know this.

478
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:40,380
And so I found giving not only a B-complex, not only magnesium, but also I really like to pair

479
00:44:40,380 --> 00:44:46,080
that with potassium. Most of the time that is going to hit most of these bases. These negative

480
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:50,180
symptoms can often be referred to as a paradoxical reaction, and there are ways to mitigate that.

481
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:56,640
However, just to make things a little bit more complicated, I had not really considered this,

482
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,040
although I come across Chris Masterjohn's take on it. It was really enlightening.

483
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,200
He'd spoken about this, and it really makes a lot of sense, is that when you give a high dose of B1,

484
00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:10,720
what you're doing is you're speeding up the TCA cycle. And it seems obvious now looking back,

485
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:13,340
but I'd never really considered it because there's not really any studies on it.

486
00:45:14,060 --> 00:45:18,720
Ultimately, what that's going to do is it's going to provide intermediates into the electron

487
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:23,720
transport chain. That's a different kind of step after the TCA cycle. And that's ultimately where

488
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:30,660
you're making ATP. Well, it's theoretically possible that by giving high dose B1, what you're doing is

489
00:45:30,660 --> 00:45:37,860
you're overloading the ECT. And therefore, if you've got problems with the ECT anyway, then you

490
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:43,940
could actually just end up with a set of events which lead to increased oxidative stress. There's

491
00:45:43,940 --> 00:45:49,760
several mechanisms by which that can work, but that can be something evolved as well. And so we don't

492
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,700
really know how to test this. I think there may be some functional tests. I don't really do any of

493
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:58,240
those these days. What I would say is, is that oftentimes if someone tries high dose B1 and they

494
00:45:58,240 --> 00:46:04,380
feel terrible, if they are doing all of the things that I mentioned, then it could be that they went

495
00:46:04,380 --> 00:46:08,060
too hard, too fast. A lot of people notice that they see that they might need it. And so they

496
00:46:08,060 --> 00:46:14,100
immediately jump into taking a gram. That's a really bad idea. The best thing to do is to start very low

497
00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:19,320
at like 50 milligrams, gradually build up unless you are quite resilient physiologically. If you're

498
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:23,460
quite resilient, then you could go into a high dose. That's probably fine. But if you have a

499
00:46:23,460 --> 00:46:26,980
chronic health condition, you have to start low and go slow. Make sure you're getting all of those

500
00:46:26,980 --> 00:46:32,860
cofactors and acknowledge, be open to experience. Is that like, I'm not saying that this works for

501
00:46:32,860 --> 00:46:36,920
everyone. What I am saying is that there are a significant minority of people. We don't know how

502
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:42,900
many there are that do, and this is what they need. And so it really is trial and error. I mean,

503
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,960
I have a protocols document online. It's actually a hundred pages. It's everything that I know about

504
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:53,520
this. And this is kind of six years of intensive working with countless individuals and trying to

505
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:58,560
kind of refine the process. And I'm still learning as I go along. And I get new testimonials every day

506
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:03,240
of people who said, actually, this worked. And that gets me thinking, you know, the patient is the

507
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:10,460
teacher. The patient always has to be the teacher. And so I always try to figure out, well, what do I

508
00:47:10,460 --> 00:47:17,420
not know? And how can I learn more? And so there's no, this isn't an exact science. It's as much an

509
00:47:17,420 --> 00:47:22,200
art as it is a science. And everyone's trying to learn as we go along. Yeah. Well, I mean,

510
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:27,180
that is such a constant is that science really is art because science is so inconclusive. And there

511
00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:32,400
are so many incorrect presuppositions we have. It really takes a certain level of intuition and

512
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,700
experimentation. And that goes to the thing that you're saying prior about this like phenomenon,

513
00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:42,520
this all or nothing phenomenon, I noticed it a lot as well. I noticed it in like, I had anhedonia

514
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:49,960
and one day it just kind of stopped. I think that there is a certain threshold that causes a feedback

515
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:56,560
that essentially turns these biological functions back on. It's like revving a lawnmower, like a

516
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,120
thousand mini pulls of a lawnmower will never start it. But if you give it one really good yank,

517
00:48:01,220 --> 00:48:05,460
it'll turn back on and it'll stay on. Now, when it comes to the depletion component and the like

518
00:48:05,460 --> 00:48:10,720
requirements of other nutrients, it makes sense. Like if you upgrade your engine, right, you're

519
00:48:10,720 --> 00:48:14,600
going to be using more gas. If you use more gas, you're going to be using more oil. You're going

520
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:17,960
to need to change your brake pads more. You're going to need more washer fluid. You're going to need this

521
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:23,440
downstream maintenance and this downstream like additional add on. If you are upgrading said

522
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,880
engine, if you're going from a Toyota Camry to a Ferrari, you're going to need more maintenance.

523
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:33,460
So that makes total sense. Now, when it comes to the like dosages, we have multiple different

524
00:48:33,460 --> 00:48:39,300
forms of thiamine. Benfo thiamine is one of them. Typically they sell it. And I think I want to say

525
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:44,780
what, 300 milligrams of the fat soluble form that would be considered on the threshold of a mega

526
00:48:44,780 --> 00:48:51,380
dose. Is that correct? Again, how do you define these things? It's, I mean, it's a high dose for

527
00:48:51,380 --> 00:48:57,880
starting point for sure. For your average listener, say it's a bio-optimizer or a biohacker or whatever it

528
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,840
is, it's probably a good starting dose. But for someone with, let's say, a neurodegenerative

529
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:08,220
condition or a, you know, a chronic fatigue syndrome, if they took that dose, they would

530
00:49:08,220 --> 00:49:13,360
probably find that it would lead to lots of side effects. So it really depends on the population

531
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,820
that we're referring to. But yeah, it's a good dose. It's a high dose. So we'll just go through

532
00:49:17,820 --> 00:49:23,300
it with my example, right? Like I'm taking 300 milligrams just for a maintenance because I'm

533
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:30,400
experimenting. I'm taking a lot of carbohydrates. I want to explore the therapeutic doses for,

534
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:36,860
say, chronic migraines or like a chronic fatigue syndrome. I'm at 300 milligrams. I really don't

535
00:49:36,860 --> 00:49:40,280
feel it that much at all. You know, I feel a little bit of a buzz. I feel a little bit of

536
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:45,060
dopaminergic effect. Is it sensible for me to then go, would I go and up that dose to 600 milligrams,

537
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:50,280
test that out, and then go from there? Would I do that? Like if you were just to say, obviously not

538
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,940
medical advice to me, but if you were in my shoes, would you go from that 300 to 600 weight a day,

539
00:49:54,940 --> 00:49:59,260
then 600 to 900 weight a day, then they continue going up until a certain threshold?

540
00:49:59,540 --> 00:50:05,720
Yeah. I'd wait a couple of days in between. Yeah. I'd go to 600. I'd go to 900. I'd go to 1,200.

541
00:50:06,060 --> 00:50:14,860
Really? There's no limit, but I probably wouldn't go beyond two grams. But yeah, really the magic can

542
00:50:14,860 --> 00:50:21,160
happen at say 1.2 to 1.5 grams. You'd be amazed. However, if it was specifically chronic migraine,

543
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:29,880
if it was someone who had a tendency towards migraine, I would also consider B2 alongside

544
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:37,640
that just because there is an intimate relationship between B2 and migraine. And thiamine does appear to,

545
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:43,080
of all the nutrients that it affects, aside from the electrolytes, there does seem to be a very close

546
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:48,960
relationship with B2. And if anything, that's the one that I'm most concerned about in terms of having

547
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:54,360
a depleting effect, let's say, or increasing the demand for your B2. So I would really, if someone

548
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,980
was going to go that high a dose of Benfo or any other thiamine derivative, I would definitely want

549
00:50:58,980 --> 00:51:05,520
to pair that with at least 200 or 300 milligrams of riboflavin. Absolutely. Yeah. I do that as well,

550
00:51:05,660 --> 00:51:10,960
especially just because I take it more consistently. It's like every second dose I take of B1, I take with

551
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:17,820
a B complex. And then every week or so that I'm taking B1, I take a pretty heavy dose of riboflavin.

552
00:51:18,700 --> 00:51:24,520
And it does seem like that is like, that's like minerals. We know that zinc depletes copper and

553
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:29,180
vice versa, you know, calcium and iron, yada, yada, yada. The B vitamins also have a very complex

554
00:51:29,180 --> 00:51:35,800
interaction. So we've got vitamin B1 primarily interacting with vitamin B2. Right off the top of

555
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:42,400
your head, just, you know, for fun information's sake, are there any other like co-competitions,

556
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:50,120
co-dependencies, co-depletions that you see within the vitamin B sphere? Yeah, there is, you know. Well,

557
00:51:51,580 --> 00:51:58,960
co-depletions, I'm not sure. I would say relationships, relationships that we can observe

558
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:04,140
and we don't necessarily know why they're happening. So a high serum folate and high B12,

559
00:52:04,140 --> 00:52:09,360
that is frequently present in people with B1 deficiency. We don't know exactly why.

560
00:52:09,700 --> 00:52:14,940
High serum folate, that's interesting because in the gut, what we've recently learned,

561
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:23,280
and this is in our paper, is that basically to absorb folate in the lower intestinal tract,

562
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:29,200
you have to kick out thiamine, active thiamine. And so when there's a problem with the thiamine

563
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:37,000
transporters in the colon, you can be absorbing folate and kicking out thiamine, but then not

564
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:41,000
reabsorbing that thiamine for whatever reason. That can actually lead to ulcerative colitis.

565
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:46,140
That's interesting. But without going too much into that, there is this kind of, let's say,

566
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:50,360
antagonistic relationship between folate and thiamine. And you do have on your cells

567
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:57,300
transporters, which are called reduced folate carriers. And so sometimes it can be the case that

568
00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:02,680
you are kicking, you're kicking out thiamine to absorb folate, but you can't get the thiamine back

569
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:07,480
in. Or it can potentially be the other way around. It's not been all that well characterized.

570
00:53:08,300 --> 00:53:15,160
What I would say is if when someone takes a high dose of B1, the most likely deficiencies you would

571
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:20,520
see in terms of the B1s, or I don't want to say deficiencies, but increased demand is B2,

572
00:53:21,300 --> 00:53:27,280
is folate and B12, and oftentimes biotin. Biotin, we don't know exactly why, but there is,

573
00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:33,900
some interesting relationships because biotin is needed for a transporter. It's a biotin-dependent

574
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:39,940
transporter, and it gets thiamine into cells. And so sometimes there's a lady called Susan Owen,

575
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:45,060
she's an oxalate expert, and she personally discovered this through her own experimentation

576
00:53:45,060 --> 00:53:49,680
and began recommending it. I don't do it half as much as I should do recommending this, but it makes

577
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:55,840
a lot of sense. She would find that she could reverse her multiple sclerosis symptoms and get into a

578
00:53:55,840 --> 00:54:04,980
position of basically remission. We're taking hydroxiamine, but only when it's paired with

579
00:54:04,980 --> 00:54:11,060
biotin. And she suspects it's because the problem with the thiamine transporter, which is dependent

580
00:54:11,060 --> 00:54:16,580
on biotin, some people who have genetic tendencies or a genetic defect in how they make this

581
00:54:16,580 --> 00:54:21,540
transporter, they need the both together. And this is actually a similar transporter defect,

582
00:54:21,540 --> 00:54:26,500
which leads to Huntington's as well, you know? So there does seem to be a relationship between

583
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:32,820
biotin. Really, the way that I like to figure this out and lay this out in my document is you do it by

584
00:54:32,820 --> 00:54:38,100
symptoms, man. So for instance, if someone takes a high dose of B1 and they develop a red scaly rash

585
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:44,420
on the face, or they develop migraines, it's likely going to be B2. And usually that goes away within a

586
00:54:44,420 --> 00:54:52,600
couple of days. If, for instance, they develop sore lips or a sore tongue or something like that,

587
00:54:52,700 --> 00:54:58,260
it could be niacin. I find niacin is much less common. But oftentimes you can do it by symptoms.

588
00:54:58,460 --> 00:55:02,400
You know, if you get to know the symptoms of different deficiencies, then you can kind of

589
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:06,160
guess it. You don't need to necessarily do functional testing. But if you need, if you really

590
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:11,060
want to, you can do something called an organic acids test, which is a urinary test, which measures

591
00:55:11,060 --> 00:55:15,800
the different metabolites. And that can give you a fairly good representation of what nutrients you

592
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:22,820
can, you can, you need more of. Interesting. Absolutely. So you mentioned oxalates. That's

593
00:55:22,820 --> 00:55:29,320
something we wanted to discuss as well. Obviously there's a lot of plant defense chemicals, things

594
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:36,140
to hone in on like phytic acid when it comes to plants. Oxalates are one that, you know, some people

595
00:55:36,140 --> 00:55:40,200
are like extremely problematic. Other people like, yeah, it might give you kidney stones. Other people

596
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:46,700
are like only a problem when you have a sensitivity to them. Once again, why was it oxalates that

597
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:50,580
stood out to you? Why is it something that you seem to have honed in on in the myriad of

598
00:55:50,580 --> 00:55:56,840
phytochemicals that you could have honed in on? Yeah. Cause, cause I, I destroyed my health

599
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:06,440
temporarily with oxalate. Spinach smoothies? Yeah. And 100% cacao. I was eating almost a bag

600
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:14,800
of spinach a day and alongside 100% cacao. And I would get the lint, you know, the lint bars,

601
00:56:15,180 --> 00:56:18,960
but I was keto at the time. I mean, I've been experimented. I first experimented with keto when,

602
00:56:19,180 --> 00:56:25,940
was it 2013? And I've kind of been on the edge of keto to paleo. And then I went full carnival kind

603
00:56:25,940 --> 00:56:34,680
of 20, when was it? 2017, 2016, 2017. I did that for a couple of years. But what I found was with

604
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:40,240
oxalate, it's insidious. And that's really why I'd never heard of it until I was trying to figure out

605
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:45,060
what my symptoms were. And then it still took me a couple of years to really grok that it was

606
00:56:45,060 --> 00:56:48,820
oxalate. Cause I was trying to make excuses and think, well, I don't really seem to have that many

607
00:56:48,820 --> 00:56:54,800
effects. But, but yeah, looking back, I definitely, I definitely, I caused a lot of issues with

608
00:56:54,800 --> 00:57:01,080
oxalate. And, and I think it was an indulgence, an overindulgence in foods that I learned was

609
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:05,240
healthy in nutrition school. You know, I was studying at that time and I'd been told that

610
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:09,480
there were all of these beneficial compounds in, in spinach and things. And I quit eating dairy at

611
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:14,940
the time because I thought that dairy was a, you know, was evil. And, and so I figured, well,

612
00:57:14,940 --> 00:57:22,360
how am I going to get my calcium? And so I, of course, ate some spinach because it's supposedly

613
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:26,400
got high calcium content, although that's complete disinformation because all of the

614
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:31,660
calcium in it is bound up completely to oxalate and spinach will cause a net loss in calcium when

615
00:57:31,660 --> 00:57:36,480
you consume it in the body. I didn't know that. And, uh, and yeah, I was taking it by the

616
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:41,360
propaganda basically. And so I started consuming massive amounts of really high oxalate foods

617
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:47,140
and, um, progressively got worse and worse and worse until the point that my digestion

618
00:57:47,140 --> 00:57:53,420
was so bad. Um, I had to go carnival. And then when I was carnival, things got even worse

619
00:57:53,420 --> 00:57:58,100
because of the dumping symptoms. I was trying to figure out what on earth this was. And then

620
00:57:58,100 --> 00:58:03,040
I, uh, I got, I got referred by, by someone who followed me on, on Facebook and they said,

621
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:07,600
Hey Elliot, I think that you should look into this. And so I did, and it just blew up this whole

622
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,760
thing. And again, that kind of became something that I was, I was known for. And I started attracting

623
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:17,560
clients from all around the world and, and seeing that it was true. It was real. Um, and people can

624
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:23,900
do themselves serious damage by eating these foods in high amounts. And yeah, it's so annoying.

625
00:58:24,060 --> 00:58:28,440
We're told, first of all, I mean, there's just so much misinformation still, right? Still,

626
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:33,140
especially from mainstream nutritionists of what a healthy diet is. And it's almost like they're

627
00:58:33,140 --> 00:58:39,780
blind to these very obvious mechanisms that can cause problems in high doses. Uh, there's still

628
00:58:39,780 --> 00:58:43,600
people that are very intelligent and have a lot of good info inside information that are saying

629
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,380
everybody should be having a kale smoothie. You know, I think Dr. Rhonda Patrick's one of them. I

630
00:58:47,380 --> 00:58:52,480
like a lot of her work, but like, she's just keeps on talking about this kale smoothie when on earth

631
00:58:52,480 --> 00:58:58,700
were leaves a foundational part of a prosperous and vital human diet. When on earth did a tribe come

632
00:58:58,700 --> 00:59:05,460
back with a like bushel of kale and worship it like they did animal meat or animal like organs

633
00:59:05,460 --> 00:59:10,980
even. So I definitely see that. I think you bring up a good point about like the net content of

634
00:59:10,980 --> 00:59:15,160
nutrients being so important, looking at an ingredients list nutrition label and saying,

635
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:20,040
Oh, look at this kale has, you know, X number of milligrams of calcium. It doesn't matter if it's

636
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:24,420
bound up in oxalates that are just going to absorb more of the calcium and whatever you're eating it with,

637
00:59:24,420 --> 00:59:31,860
which is super fascinating. Um, I think like you then went full carnivore that caused more issues.

638
00:59:31,860 --> 00:59:37,720
I'm sure you've come back around. I came back around from being completely anti, uh, vegetables

639
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:43,720
to being like, they do serve some purpose, whether if it's for bile conjugation and bile release,

640
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:49,480
whether it's for those fibers that act kind of like a scrub, whether it's for endogenous, uh,

641
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:55,920
like endotoxin absorption, what are your current guidelines just personally in your current

642
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:02,940
perspective on oxalate containing foods on phytic acid containing foods and how do you frame them in

643
01:00:02,940 --> 01:00:09,980
a natural human diet? Yeah. I think seasonality is, is something that we've lost and is probably the

644
01:00:09,980 --> 01:00:18,400
key, uh, let's say guiding factor in any traditional culture is what they had access to at any one given

645
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:24,040
time. And, uh, Sally Norton emphasizes beautifully. She's actually got paper and it's called lost

646
01:00:24,040 --> 01:00:30,220
seasonality, the overconsumption of oxalate. And she discusses the historical research. I think a lot

647
01:00:30,220 --> 01:00:35,120
of it is dated back to the UK. It was known that certain plants would grow at certain times of the

648
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:43,320
year, for instance, rhubarb. And there would be, um, people who would consume that and it would only

649
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:48,060
be available for a couple of months every year, maybe two months. And so they would go through

650
01:00:48,060 --> 01:00:52,680
these temporary periods of having this high exposure to oxalate containing foods. And of course,

651
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:57,260
interestingly, uh, you know, you would see like a spike in kidney stones and things like that during

652
01:00:57,260 --> 01:01:04,840
those times, but for the most part, um, it was a temporary consumption. And so I think the body is

653
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:11,840
much better able to deal with something if it is, um, limited to, to a short period of time. For instance,

654
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:17,200
you could probably consume a massive amount of oxalate over a short period of time. And if you've got

655
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:23,420
the rest of the year to kind of, uh, you know, adapt to that or, or to recover from that, that's

656
01:01:23,420 --> 01:01:30,300
probably fine. The issue is, is that, and this answers your question, at least, I think I'm not,

657
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:35,860
I do not support the idea that anyone should be consuming high oxalate foods all year round,

658
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:42,300
unless they, I mean, I think there are some exceptions to that. For instance, I believe that

659
01:01:42,300 --> 01:01:47,960
there's an Island in Polynesia where they mostly just eat sweet potato and a sweet potato is quite

660
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:52,560
high in oxalate, but I believe they've actually had a look at the microbiome and they found that

661
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:58,100
they've got certain bacteria in the gut, which, um, which are able to take the starches and things

662
01:01:58,100 --> 01:02:02,840
and ferment them into all kinds of amino acids and, and, and fats and, and everything like that.

663
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:08,420
So, so I, I guess what I'm talking to is the Western man. I'm not saying that this isn't

664
01:02:08,420 --> 01:02:12,180
applicable in some African country or something like that. I don't care about that. I'm talking

665
01:02:12,180 --> 01:02:17,540
about people like us, people like us who've had exposure to antibiotics, who have had exposure

666
01:02:17,540 --> 01:02:23,280
to toxins and things which do have an effect on our gut microbiome, which do reduce the overall

667
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:28,660
diversity and things like that, which are naturally going to be protective factors against absorbing,

668
01:02:28,900 --> 01:02:32,820
becoming a hyperabsorber of oxalate. In our modern world, we've got this kind of

669
01:02:32,820 --> 01:02:38,800
recipe of disaster because we lose the innate protection against oxalate. And also we have

670
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:46,640
bought into the idea that international export and international trade of these exotic foods,

671
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:53,640
which inevitably contain massive amounts of oxalate, uh, means that, that it's okay to eat them

672
01:02:53,640 --> 01:03:00,560
24 seven all year round, 36, 365 days of the year. It's such an interesting point there. It's like,

673
01:03:00,560 --> 01:03:05,520
it's not just about our biological makeup that's going undergoing adaptations, right? Like why some

674
01:03:05,540 --> 01:03:11,740
like populations are able to absorb milk and digest milk better, but it's also like the adaptations of

675
01:03:11,740 --> 01:03:17,080
our microbiota that can effectively become wiped out in a single generation that then gets passed down

676
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,180
through multiple generations, right? Like the microbiome of your mother directly impacts your

677
01:03:21,180 --> 01:03:26,920
microbiome. So that is fascinating. And then I think you also like, this is kind of where the mixed bag

678
01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:32,680
with produce comes into it's like the produce that we have now is not the traditional produce

679
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:38,260
on every level, right? Aside from the fact of the genetic modifications that change the structure

680
01:03:38,260 --> 01:03:42,940
of nutrients that change the structure of macro and micronutrients, as well as some of these plant

681
01:03:42,940 --> 01:03:50,340
chemicals, they're loaded with, um, pesticides, which probably do have an impact on our absorption and

682
01:03:50,340 --> 01:03:55,580
susceptibility to those oxalates. Maybe you can touch on that, but also, you know, the, the sheer

683
01:03:55,580 --> 01:04:02,160
depletion of those minerals that would otherwise at least offset some of that, um, chelation property

684
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:07,700
of some of these, uh, plant chemicals. Is that something you look at as well as like, maybe it's

685
01:04:07,700 --> 01:04:14,600
just too far gone for us to incorporate, you know, uh, plants in heavy, in, in the level at which

686
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:20,560
they're pushed as part of a healthy diet. Yeah. It's, it's hard to say. I can say for me personally,

687
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:28,260
and many people that I know, um, I can't, I just don't do well with a diet, which is high in plant

688
01:04:28,260 --> 01:04:35,080
foods, uh, particularly high oxalate plant foods. And even though I'm about six, six years on seven

689
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:41,340
years on now of being low oxalate, I know, I know, I know that when I consume a high oxalate meal,

690
01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:46,760
it can still bring back some of the symptoms that I have. Like I know when I've eaten high oxalate

691
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:52,460
because I'll end up with bladder pain and I'll end up with like, uh, difficulty with controlling

692
01:04:52,460 --> 01:04:57,660
urination and things like that. Um, that was the main way that it was manifesting for me. And,

693
01:04:57,660 --> 01:05:02,640
and, uh, sometimes I can experience digestive issues. So, uh, sorry to come back to your question. So,

694
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:13,460
um, sorry, what exactly did you ask again? Is it a confounded variable because of all of the other,

695
01:05:13,460 --> 01:05:20,480
adulterations that have occurred to produce, like produce is almost like, yeah, probably was good

696
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:26,540
at one point. Not anymore. It's a complete mess, man. Like what we eat these days is so fundamentally

697
01:05:26,540 --> 01:05:32,840
different, even to the point of irradiating the food, washing the food, not only, even if you take

698
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:37,740
out the pesticides and stuff, it's like prior, if we were going to eat lettuce, it would, it would be

699
01:05:37,740 --> 01:05:43,640
covered in soil. It would then be covered in microbes. So we would be getting these, these soil

700
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:49,820
based organisms. And so everything that we ate essentially contains some form of a probiotic,

701
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:54,060
whereas we live in such a sanitized environment. And then on top of that, like you mentioned,

702
01:05:54,140 --> 01:05:58,640
this is intergenerational as well. And when we look at the effects of things like glyphosate,

703
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:04,640
well, glyphosate is really quite terrible. We know that it, uh, depletes certain microbes in the gut.

704
01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:10,380
And some of those microbes are very important for how we are metabolizing or breaking down oxalate.

705
01:06:10,380 --> 01:06:17,840
We know that many of the antibiotics are extremely, um, detrimental, almost selectively detrimental

706
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:23,780
to these oxalate degraders. And, and the, the, these kinds of microbes don't appear to just rebound

707
01:06:23,780 --> 01:06:30,180
back. So I don't know if, I mean, to answer your question, I think it's just that we're in such a toxic

708
01:06:30,180 --> 01:06:36,720
soup. These days I try not to, I try not to be idealistic about anything. I try not to, I don't

709
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:41,240
actually think it's possible for someone like myself, at least, who's trying to live and operate

710
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:47,440
in the modern world, unless I'm going to go and, you know, move to, to some third world country where

711
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:52,760
they don't have technology and go live out in a hut. I'm not going to live like that. I don't think

712
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:58,720
it's possible to achieve the same level of resilience or health. And I think that's just part of like a

713
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:04,960
collective lesson that humans kind of need to deal with is that modern, modern life brings with it

714
01:07:04,960 --> 01:07:12,520
chronic illness and, and even just, uh, let's say less, less, less optimal physiology. I just think

715
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:17,780
that is the case. I don't know if there's anywhere around that. I don't know if it is possible. I mean,

716
01:07:17,780 --> 01:07:25,600
just literally just, this is my mouse, right? Every time I'm touching this, this is plastic and it's

717
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:30,840
literally rub, it rubs off the plastic. Like that stuff is being absorbed into my skin. The stuff I'm

718
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:35,780
breathing in right now, I mean, my room's clean, but the chances are I'm breathing in some level of

719
01:07:35,780 --> 01:07:41,720
like microplastic because of the dust, something like that. You can't really avoid this stuff. So

720
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:47,400
I just feel as though the most optimal strategy is to try and adapt and give the body as, provide the

721
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:53,840
body with as many tools as you can to improve the resilience. However, I think we've gone past the

722
01:07:53,840 --> 01:07:58,780
glory days. We are past that way beyond that. And I don't believe we're ever going to get back to the

723
01:07:58,780 --> 01:08:05,380
glory days unless, um, there was a complete collapse of civilization or a complete restructuring in the

724
01:08:05,380 --> 01:08:12,200
way that, um, the civilization is, is built and progresses. Yeah. Well, with, with the way that

725
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:16,960
things are going, that's actually a possibility, but you're right. The cat's out of the bag. We can't go

726
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:23,680
back to nature because the figment of nature has been fundamentally altered. You know, it's,

727
01:08:23,900 --> 01:08:30,620
it no longer exists. I don't think there's anywhere on this earth that is immune to like the impact

728
01:08:30,620 --> 01:08:35,980
that modernity has had. That's just the reality. And even if we did get into that perfect, like

729
01:08:35,980 --> 01:08:41,820
garden of Eden or whatever we want to call it, perfect, unperturbed nature, it doesn't make up

730
01:08:41,820 --> 01:08:46,920
for the, not only our lifetime of toxin accumulation, but our parents' lifetime of

731
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:51,100
toxic accumulation, which has been passed down to us epigenetically. So yeah, modern problems do

732
01:08:51,100 --> 01:08:55,460
require modern solutions. I've kind of realized that there's nothing we can do about it. The only

733
01:08:55,460 --> 01:09:00,940
thing we can do is kind of use the same intellect that got us to this place to hopefully reverse and

734
01:09:00,940 --> 01:09:07,380
get us out of that. Now talking about the complete restructuring of our biology, something that you

735
01:09:07,380 --> 01:09:12,460
talk a lot about is the mRNA vaccine. We're on Twitter, so we can talk about that openly.

736
01:09:12,980 --> 01:09:17,900
Obviously that's had a huge impact, right? That has changed our genetic structure and the spike

737
01:09:17,900 --> 01:09:22,360
protein, which is something that seems to be a causation to a lot of issues, isn't just from the

738
01:09:22,360 --> 01:09:27,760
vaccine, but from the virus itself. Where do we even start with that?

739
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:34,300
Yeah, that's, that's another mess. I mean, we thought it was bad. We thought it was bad. And then they go

740
01:09:34,300 --> 01:09:40,280
and do something like that. And that's just takes it to a whole new level. Where'd you even start?

741
01:09:40,340 --> 01:09:45,900
I mean, ultimately, uh, yeah, what is it? It's a, what happened? What did they put in our arms?

742
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:54,080
Well, it certainly wasn't natural. That's for sure. Um, I, I, I would bet my life on it being

743
01:09:54,080 --> 01:10:02,420
some kind of engineered structure. Um, that appears to be the case. And however it got there, um,

744
01:10:02,420 --> 01:10:09,880
yeah, we have a situation where billions of people, um, have taken a medical procedure,

745
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:21,680
which instructs their cells to, to manufacture, um, a protein, which is one of an extremely potent

746
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:27,420
inflammation. And what that means is, is it, it directly causes inflammation and destruction

747
01:10:27,420 --> 01:10:36,500
basically wherever it goes. And we don't know how prevalent that is in terms of which cells are

748
01:10:36,500 --> 01:10:43,000
making it, which cells aren't making it. The way that it had been engineered is the exact, uh, mRNA

749
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:48,960
that was being injected into people. Well, the, the, the way that the proteins actually

750
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:54,700
manufacture, or sorry, sorry, the, the way that the proteins are manufactured, there's,

751
01:10:54,700 --> 01:11:00,640
there's no off switch, uh, there's no off switch. So usually during protein synthesis,

752
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,480
there, there is, there is, there is like a little switch. It's an easy way of thinking

753
01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:09,140
about it. There's a switch to say, okay, stop making this with the mRNA. You don't have that.

754
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:13,220
And that's, that's kind of the way that it seems to be, uh, seem, seems to have been engineered.

755
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:18,280
And so what ends up happening is that when someone's vascular system, when this comes into

756
01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:21,240
contact with the blood, it causes clumping of blood cells. And you might've seen,

757
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:27,520
you might've seen a, in the, um, uh, microscope under the microscope, the blood cells in a

758
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:32,440
unvaccinated and then a vaccinated individual, you see that you have just massive clumps. It

759
01:11:32,440 --> 01:11:36,080
causes the cells to essentially clump together. And that's one of the reasons why you're seeing

760
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:41,720
so, so many of these crazy clots coming out of people who, who have been vaccinated in the

761
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:48,980
embalmer's office. When it, when it's occurring in the cardiovascular system, it's causing damage to

762
01:11:48,980 --> 01:11:55,800
the, uh, the endothelial, uh, vascular lining. It's causing rupture. It's causing, um, it's causing

763
01:11:55,800 --> 01:12:01,500
brain degeneration. It appears to be involved in many different types of cancers. It appears to be

764
01:12:01,500 --> 01:12:06,220
involved in many of the conditions that we're seeing that we, that were already increasing in

765
01:12:06,220 --> 01:12:11,300
prevalence, but now have just absolutely spiked. And really there's no end in sight because, uh, what

766
01:12:11,300 --> 01:12:16,540
was meant to be an injection that, or meant to be an injection. I don't necessarily, I think it was

767
01:12:16,540 --> 01:12:23,320
designed this way, but that's by the by, um, it was meant to stick in the arm and then only make, uh,

768
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:28,380
uh, an antigen that that's not, that's not how things are played out. And people are,

769
01:12:28,500 --> 01:12:32,600
they've turned into spike protein generating factories. And this is permanent.

770
01:12:32,780 --> 01:12:37,440
And so the question is, what can we do about this? So a couple of years ago, there was some

771
01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:42,640
discussion about how you could, how you could improve this. I made a video on YouTube. It's actually,

772
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:47,200
I think it's the most viewed YouTube video on this topic, which is kind of bizarre because

773
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:52,540
YouTube didn't delete it. I didn't say the word vaccine, but I did say, I referred to it as the

774
01:12:52,540 --> 01:12:57,300
thing. I'm still amazed that my channel exists. Like I thought YouTube were going to nuke it,

775
01:12:57,340 --> 01:13:02,000
but they, they didn't somehow. And that that's talking about using systemic enzymes, right?

776
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:08,840
And so, um, the way that the, uh, the research on the spike protein, what they found is that

777
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:14,360
different enzymes, which break down proteins, proteolytic enzymes, seropreptase, natto kinase,

778
01:13:14,700 --> 01:13:19,600
lumbro kinase, uh, these could be very beneficial. And, and anecdotally, we have thousands of people

779
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:23,960
who use these systemic enzymes. And the concept is, is that if your cells are generating this

780
01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:30,200
highly inflammatory spike protein permanently, uh, then you're going to have to permanently take a

781
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:34,760
substance, which is traveling around in the blood and could hopefully disable, disable this,

782
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:40,520
uh, as best as possible. What we also know is that glutathione NAC can also do this.

783
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:46,240
Uh, it also appears to be applicable for people who have not taken the vaccine. So it does appear

784
01:13:46,240 --> 01:13:52,700
that there is such a thing as shedding, which is bizarre, but if people, you imagine you, you take

785
01:13:52,700 --> 01:13:57,460
this, the, the, the mRNA, I don't want to call it a vaccine. You take this experimental gene technology,

786
01:13:57,620 --> 01:14:03,680
your cells start generating the spike protein. And a lot of it is going to be coming out via the lungs.

787
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:09,000
That's how it's suspected to come out. And it persists in the environment. So if for instance,

788
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:13,600
you're sat in a car or you come into direct physical contact, or you have sexual contact

789
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:19,220
with someone who is making spike protein, um, you can also kind of be inoculated with that.

790
01:14:19,260 --> 01:14:24,300
And we don't know, I mean, there is some speculation as to whether that would then have an effect,

791
01:14:24,300 --> 01:14:29,320
whether it is just spike protein or whether there is also some other freaky stuff going on,

792
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:33,780
which is going to also affect someone else's body to start making it, even though they didn't get

793
01:14:33,780 --> 01:14:38,480
the vaccine. There's also evidence that it's in food and this kind of sounds crazy. I thought that

794
01:14:38,480 --> 01:14:46,560
was nonsense, but there seems to be some evidence that it's in, um, the food supply. Uh, they have

795
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:51,620
spoken about injecting animals with this kind of mRNA technology. So that's not even too far out there.

796
01:14:51,740 --> 01:14:56,260
They're talking about it and they're actually talking about other things like mosquitoes and things

797
01:14:56,260 --> 01:15:02,060
like that. It's crazy. But, uh, so the original thinking on it was that people who got sick from

798
01:15:02,060 --> 01:15:09,300
this should be taking glutathione, NAC and systemic enzymes. That was the base protocol. However, um,

799
01:15:10,100 --> 01:15:16,660
what I've personally found is that that can be improved. If we look at the mechanism by which

800
01:15:16,660 --> 01:15:21,620
spike protein can cause damage to the body, we know that it's highly inflammatory. We know that it can

801
01:15:21,620 --> 01:15:30,500
kind of trigger, um, the renin angiotensin system, uh, and, and lead to heart problems and particularly

802
01:15:30,500 --> 01:15:37,640
cause damage to the heart, the myocardium, et cetera, cause myocarditis. However, what I'm more

803
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:43,160
interested in is the people who don't have those cardiovascular presentations, but they do have

804
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:51,100
systemic or, um, neurological or problems stemming from neurological illness. And, um, and if you look in

805
01:15:51,100 --> 01:15:56,980
the, in, in, in the research, it seems as though the spike protein selectively targets, uh, type of

806
01:15:56,980 --> 01:16:03,380
receptor called the acetylcholine receptor, seven alpha nicotinic acetylcholine receptor indeed. And,

807
01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:09,040
um, and what this, this is involved in, in, in multiple different pathways. Acetylcholine is one of the

808
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:15,460
most important neurotransmitters for how you think your cognition, your ability to put two and two

809
01:16:15,460 --> 01:16:22,120
together, your short-term and your long-term memory, your, um, your brain function, your perception,

810
01:16:22,440 --> 01:16:29,400
your emotional control. A lot of this relates to your cholinergic system. If you block the cholinergic

811
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:39,320
system, you see massive memory decline, massive, uh, problems with cognition. And this is interestingly

812
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:45,560
something that you see in, in thyroid deficiency as well. But so what happens when you block that you

813
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:50,720
see, uh, like Alzheimer's type phenotypes, well, you, a lot of the evidence showing that people who

814
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:57,160
get vaccinated develop Alzheimer's like diseases in the brain. You've got massive issues with cognition,

815
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:01,020
but not only does it affect cognition, it's also important for how your brain communicates

816
01:17:01,020 --> 01:17:05,740
messages to the rest of the body. What that ultimately means is through the vagus nerve,

817
01:17:05,740 --> 01:17:11,260
which is the main nerve in your parasympathetic nervous system. It's how you are not only telling

818
01:17:11,260 --> 01:17:15,580
your organs what to do and at what times, but also how you are controlling the inflammatory response

819
01:17:15,580 --> 01:17:21,560
via something called the cholinergic anti-inflammatory pathway. So people who get vaccinated or people who

820
01:17:21,560 --> 01:17:27,340
get the virus and they get this like crazy knock on cytokine storm, we're kind of at the end of that

821
01:17:27,340 --> 01:17:32,140
now, but it's still occurring in people with the vaccine. They'll get the vaccine. They'll notice

822
01:17:32,140 --> 01:17:36,460
serious changes in their brain function, changes in their personality. They'll notice that they

823
01:17:36,460 --> 01:17:41,740
develop all of a sudden serious gut problems, constipation, gastroparesis. They get dizziness.

824
01:17:41,740 --> 01:17:47,420
They get chronic fatigue. They get all of these kinds of symptoms, which speak of a dysautonomia of

825
01:17:47,420 --> 01:17:52,840
types. And that's super common post-vaccine, post-vaccine POTS, post-vaccine dysautonomia.

826
01:17:53,280 --> 01:17:58,600
And what they also find is that now they are systemically inflamed. A lot of those symptoms,

827
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:03,320
a lot of those symptoms, I would suspect the majority of those symptoms are because

828
01:18:03,320 --> 01:18:07,680
of this direct interaction between the spike protein and the cholinergic receptor.

829
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:13,000
So the spike protein comes along, it blocks it. And what it means is that acetylcholine can't work.

830
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:19,500
So anything that uses this acetylcholine or this cholinergic system declines in function. And so this

831
01:18:19,500 --> 01:18:25,140
wide variety of symptoms, I think can come down to a defect in this single kind of system.

832
01:18:25,140 --> 01:18:30,400
I don't want to be too reductionistic, but mechanistically, it's one of the best things

833
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:36,100
we've got. We've got, I think. Now, as it just so happens, there are things that you can do about

834
01:18:36,100 --> 01:18:43,340
this. One of them is nicotine. So early on, it was found that smokers were highly protected against

835
01:18:43,340 --> 01:18:53,220
COVID morbidity or mortality. It was later research showing that nicotine was protective in some way.

836
01:18:53,220 --> 01:18:59,660
They found a direct connection at the level of the cholinergic receptor, 7-alpha acetylcholine

837
01:18:59,660 --> 01:19:04,720
receptor. They found that even if this is blocked with spike protein, nicotine has a much higher

838
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:11,180
affinity for this receptor. And so what it can essentially do is come along, displace spike

839
01:19:11,180 --> 01:19:17,340
protein from the receptor and re-engage the cholinergic system. This has knock-on effect. So first of all,

840
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:21,820
someone will take nicotine and they'll start noticing that their brain starts working again. They can

841
01:19:21,820 --> 01:19:25,840
actually think, oh my God, I've woken up. You know, they take nicotine, a couple of minutes later,

842
01:19:26,180 --> 01:19:30,680
ha, I can think again for the first time in two years. Then what they start noticing is that

843
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:36,900
their dizziness goes away or their balance improves or they can move. They've got better

844
01:19:36,900 --> 01:19:44,920
mobility in their arms and legs. They've got less back pain. Their system, the inflammation starts

845
01:19:44,920 --> 01:19:50,520
calming down. You see this, this nicotine is, is known as a highly anti-inflammatory substance because

846
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:55,300
of this direct effect on the cholinergic system because it simulates it. Because the cholinergic

847
01:19:55,300 --> 01:20:00,140
neurons are so important in the brain for turning off inflammation. And we know that people get

848
01:20:00,140 --> 01:20:04,920
vaccinated. A lot of their symptoms stem from this neuroinflammatory stuff. It's like the brain is on

849
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:11,100
fire. Nicotine comes along, displaces spike protein and turns off the inflammatory system. They start

850
01:20:11,100 --> 01:20:16,420
noticing that their gut starts working again. All of these things improve and a lot of it occurs

851
01:20:16,420 --> 01:20:21,840
with nicotine. And I think one of the main ways that you can explain that is because of this direct

852
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:27,580
interaction between spike and acetylcholine. And so that's something that has not got really enough

853
01:20:27,580 --> 01:20:34,060
attention. There is a doctor called Dr. Brian Ardis, I think his name is. He's been talking a lot about

854
01:20:34,060 --> 01:20:39,780
this probably for a year, but the researchers is going back at least four years. I have a colleague,

855
01:20:39,780 --> 01:20:46,020
she's a doctor from Spain. She'd written an article back in 2020. So we were following this. We knew

856
01:20:46,020 --> 01:20:52,700
that nicotine was working. We just didn't know how. And so to conclude, I've had a lot of people

857
01:20:52,700 --> 01:20:57,520
getting contacted, been doing these systemic enzymes and things. I can't talk about this on

858
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:03,260
YouTube. I can't mention nicotine because I think that they would definitely new my channel. But I've

859
01:21:03,260 --> 01:21:09,960
written about it on Twitter. And, and yeah, what we find is that people who use this base level

860
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:14,300
protocol, you know, you're trying to hit it from multiple angles. You think if you, if you made the

861
01:21:14,300 --> 01:21:20,040
decision and your cells are generating copious amounts of this extremely toxic substance,

862
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:27,040
fucking so toxic, the spike protein, it's insane. And they are indefinitely making this. You want to hit

863
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:30,920
this from multiple angles. You look at, well, what does this do? It causes inflammation. Well,

864
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:35,620
okay. Anti-inflammatories across the board, if you can, aspirin, probably a really good idea in this

865
01:21:35,620 --> 01:21:41,600
context to help your vascular system, but try and degrade it. Proteolytic enzymes, but also

866
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:47,780
spike protein affecting the neurological system. How can we counteract that nicotine? How can we boost

867
01:21:47,780 --> 01:21:53,160
the production of acetylcholine? Thiamine. And that's why, you know, came up with this kind of

868
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:57,960
protocol where you're, you're trying to hit it from multiple bases. And so again, a lot of it is

869
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:02,280
citizen scientists who are, who are learning as they go along because they've got long COVID, but

870
01:22:02,280 --> 01:22:07,220
I'm amazed. There's still people who are sick from this. It's insane. It's like four years on

871
01:22:07,220 --> 01:22:12,620
and people are still sick from COVID. It's nuts. We've known the impact on nicotine, like nicotine

872
01:22:12,620 --> 01:22:17,400
on the cholinergic system and neurodegenerative diseases forever. You know, smokers are less

873
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:22,880
susceptible to neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's and ALS, in spite of the pro-inflammatory

874
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:28,040
nature of smoking combustible things with all the things in cigarettes. Yeah. I also notice

875
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:33,320
for me personally, I love cholinergics. Cholinergics do turn my brain back on. I have ADHD and, you

876
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:39,560
know, choline deficiency is a pretty common comorbidity with ADHD. Ginkgo biloba, any acetylcholinasterase

877
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:46,440
inhibitor or alpha GPC, a more direct choline source. Those all have to have, tend to have similar

878
01:22:46,440 --> 01:22:53,320
brain turns back on effect. I can once again, focus and think linearly and be decisive. And

879
01:22:53,320 --> 01:22:59,240
that's something that's really interesting and understated as a whole, but especially in

880
01:22:59,240 --> 01:23:03,460
this context. So you mentioned the proteolytic enzymes. You mentioned that a lot of this is

881
01:23:03,460 --> 01:23:09,620
just maintenance for keeping the actual effect of these constantly produced by proteins from

882
01:23:09,620 --> 01:23:14,960
having like significant negative impact on your organs with some like gene therapies. Like

883
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:22,360
we know myostatin gene therapy, it can get turned off with like a certain antibiotics, right? Like

884
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:28,180
tetracycline or doxycycline. Do you think, and we haven't found one yet, do you think there would be a

885
01:23:28,180 --> 01:23:34,980
way to turn off this spike protein production signaling similarly to how you can turn off certain

886
01:23:34,980 --> 01:23:42,420
gene therapy protocols that are oftentimes encapsulated in viruses? I would hope so. The problem,

887
01:23:42,420 --> 01:23:49,560
the biggest problem that I can see is that, and I was at a conference late last year in December.

888
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:54,360
I actually gave a talk on this, on this topic and the keynote speaker was Sherry Tempenny and she's

889
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:59,560
one of the world leading voices in vaccine adverse reactions. She's been talking about it for decades

890
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:06,560
and she was very vocal from, from very early on, on the mRNA jabs. And she said that there,

891
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:15,180
to her knowledge, there is no known assay for spike protein, meaning that you can't, you can't go to a

892
01:24:15,180 --> 01:24:23,340
lab and say, Hey, can I have my spike protein levels checked? So we don't know what is working to turn

893
01:24:23,340 --> 01:24:29,300
it on or to like, we don't know if there's anything that actually works. We were only going from symptoms.

894
01:24:29,300 --> 01:24:35,500
So until someone can provide a commercially available spike protein assay that can be

895
01:24:35,500 --> 01:24:41,200
verified, you know, cross-checked, and we know that it actually measures what it says it's measuring,

896
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:48,020
then there may already be a therapy like that on the market that people are using in a supplement or

897
01:24:48,020 --> 01:24:54,200
as some kind of another medication that has that exact effect. Problem is there's no way to measure how

898
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:59,840
much spike protein you're actually making. So a lot of this is just purely going off of symptoms.

899
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:05,500
You know, does this improve someone's symptoms? Does like, we know that they were jabbed or we know

900
01:25:05,500 --> 01:25:11,400
that they got the virus. They did X, X, X. And we can say, well, theoretically we can justify this

901
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:16,800
mechanistically because this mechanism might be at play, but no one really knows because no one is

902
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:21,300
measuring spike protein before or after. Now I know that, I think that there's a couple of companies

903
01:25:21,300 --> 01:25:26,820
who claim that they can do this, that they can measure spike protein. But according to Sherry

904
01:25:26,820 --> 01:25:31,400
Tempenny, all of the ones that she looked at, and I had taken a look myself, I don't know if there's

905
01:25:31,400 --> 01:25:38,360
any way that you can actually verify whether they are legit. And so I think until there is something

906
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:45,320
like a gold standard commercially available spike protein assay, I mean, to answer your question,

907
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:50,540
I hope so. And maybe it's already available. Maybe it's currently being used for some other

908
01:25:50,540 --> 01:25:56,900
completely thing. I mean, ivermectin, for instance, ivermectin, not only does it really help with

909
01:25:56,900 --> 01:26:04,540
active COVID infection, but ivermectin also binds and neutralizes spike protein in the blood. It's

910
01:26:04,540 --> 01:26:10,680
like a completely unrelated effect that they found secondarily after they were using it for COVID.

911
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:15,560
They found that ivermectin, and sorry, that's actually something that I missed out and I definitely

912
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:21,800
can't talk about on YouTube, is ivermectin. So your proteolytic enzymes, your cholinergics,

913
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:29,100
and your ivermectin, those things together is like that's the gold standard for improving this.

914
01:26:29,340 --> 01:26:35,480
But I mean, look, dude, it's a great question. If you know someone who can measure this and who can

915
01:26:35,480 --> 01:26:40,660
figure out how to get this, then we could actually, we could take someone who has these symptoms,

916
01:26:40,660 --> 01:26:46,240
we try them on these different therapies or drugs, we actually test what stopped spike protein

917
01:26:46,240 --> 01:26:50,420
production. You know, and you measure, you say, oh, this is a week after the therapy, this is a

918
01:26:50,420 --> 01:26:55,600
month after the therapy. Is there any noticeable difference in spike protein in the blood? Has it

919
01:26:55,600 --> 01:26:59,880
permanently, you know? Yeah. You know what I mean? I get it.

920
01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:09,400
It's a mess, mate. It's a mess. We can only try and clean up that mess. You know, that's what

921
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:15,920
after the fact. These people need to be held accountable. These people are criminals.

922
01:27:17,420 --> 01:27:21,860
Entirely. Absolutely. There's no doubt about it. I mean, you know, I think that's one of the

923
01:27:21,860 --> 01:27:26,780
beauties of being on X is that you can talk about these things openly. You know, I think that Elon Musk

924
01:27:26,780 --> 01:27:31,800
really did something that quite literally saved free speech. And I think that was a pretty significant

925
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:37,860
impact in the recent, I don't know, political developments that we've seen in the last month

926
01:27:37,860 --> 01:27:43,640
or so with this most recent election. But Elliot, man, I really appreciate you coming on. A lot of

927
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:47,740
topics here. I highly recommend everybody check out your YouTube channel. I'll link that in the show

928
01:27:47,740 --> 01:27:52,900
notes. You have some really incredible, longer form, very in-depth topics. We really did just scratch

929
01:27:52,900 --> 01:27:56,980
the surface. You are also on X, though. And, you know, I think you should continue posting some of

930
01:27:56,980 --> 01:28:00,540
these nuggets on there because you can speak about them freely, right? The things that you can't speak

931
01:28:00,540 --> 01:28:06,400
on YouTube are exactly the things that are going to pop off on X. So I'll link both of those down in

932
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:13,120
the show notes. You do have Objective Nutrients, which is a great source for TTFD, as well as other

933
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:19,460
forms of thiamine and B vitamins. And you also have thiamineprotocols.com. Is that correct?

934
01:28:19,460 --> 01:28:25,720
Yeah. Yeah. That's the one. That's generally for people who have like a health condition

935
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:30,280
and they want to get started, but they don't know how. They don't have a practitioner or anything

936
01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:34,120
like that. So it's basically guidelines on what to do and when to do it.

937
01:28:34,700 --> 01:28:38,660
Yeah. That's great. People need that. People need the nuance. Elliot, thanks again for coming

938
01:28:38,660 --> 01:28:44,100
on, man. I appreciate it. Yeah, it was great. Great talking with you, mate. Thanks for having me on.

939
01:28:44,100 --> 01:28:44,800
Absolutely.