1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,620 The impacts of, you said, defunding, if you will, and literally withdrawal of personnel by the United States government led by President Donald Trump, where he has made very sweeping statements and policies. 2 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:22,200 As a matter of fact, a lot of the things they are doing with you said, some people are saying you said is dead, quote and unquote. 3 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:31,200 How does that affect Africa, the rest of the world, and especially Nigeria, because some of those intervention funds and grants get to us one way or the other. 4 00:00:31,300 --> 00:00:43,880 I've been joined by the founder and global president, Women's Environment Program, Dr. Priscilla Chakwa, joining us from Benway State. 5 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:53,100 Also, Mr. Global Affairs Analyst and former presidential aspirant, Mr. Adamu Garba joins us from Abuja's studios. 6 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,240 Mr. Garba, thank you for coming on the program. 7 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,000 Thank you for having me. 8 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:13,460 So, Trump is barely, he was sworn in on January the 20th, in literal, in just weeks, the whole world is vibrating, from trade war to the statesmen in Gaza. 9 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:23,340 But what that concerns us is some of the interventions through you said, that he's now said, look, all of the spendings that are happening that are not necessary, they're not going to continue. 10 00:01:23,340 --> 00:01:33,420 So, as an overview, how does this affect us, for the people who don't understand the implication of the policy and the executive order of Mr. Trump? 11 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,080 Thank you once again for having me. 12 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:52,840 You see, prior to the Doge announcement, you know, when Donald Trump was sworn in office, he promised, even during the campaign, that there is something called Department of Government Efficiency that is going to be run by Elon Musk. 13 00:01:53,340 --> 00:02:03,800 So, that department happened to be, happened to be like an information expose department, and then driving the great reset of the United States policy framework, both internally and externally. 14 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:31,520 Part of which is this USAID, that was technically put out of use, and that although, prior to this expose, people like us, and so many ordinary Africans, especially Nigerians, will be thinking that USAID is actually one of the most important organizations that assisted in supporting healthcare, education, endowment, and several civil society organization activities in Nigeria. 15 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:41,580 Because in just FY 2023, Nigeria got almost $824 million of use of funding. 16 00:02:41,580 --> 00:03:00,920 But then again, when the expose came out, and so many documents came to limelight, especially one of the critical documents was the document released by the Department of Army of the United States, which is called Special Army Operation Forces. 17 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:17,380 I think the document is, I think the document is online, you can check it, I think, F305.130 document, that discussed how USAID is used as a weapon of unconventional warfare, conventional warfare, and also irregular warfare. 18 00:03:17,380 --> 00:03:31,140 So it means that even though this USAID is supposed to serve some humanitarian, educational, and also health and civil society cases, it was actually an operation of the United States Army. 19 00:03:31,140 --> 00:03:50,160 And what they use is to carry out so many psyops and info ops operations to create a situation that will bring about irregularity, destabilization, confusion, and so many other states of trouble that we have today in most of the places where they operate most. 20 00:03:50,160 --> 00:04:04,060 Because if you look at the list of the top 10 countries where you said operate most, from Ukraine, the top most, down to South Sudan, you will see that almost all these countries are in this array, despite the so much money that is committed to them. 21 00:04:04,740 --> 00:04:08,100 Ukraine alone in that 2023 has about $16 billion. 22 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,620 But all of us know the situation of Ukraine today. 23 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,540 Two population of Ukraine have left this big country. 24 00:04:13,860 --> 00:04:15,220 More than 600,000 days. 25 00:04:15,700 --> 00:04:16,980 And that still keep continuing. 26 00:04:16,980 --> 00:04:46,780 And when you take the history of Ukraine, you know, from the coup d'etat that took place in 2014, the rebel victory to Yanukovych, down to Zelensky era, and all the current moment that is happening, the crisis between them and Russia, and the dead that is recorded there, which is funded single-handedly by the USAID, then you will not begin to question these $824 million that is invested in Nigeria in 2023. 27 00:04:46,980 --> 00:04:48,360 Where does it go to? 28 00:04:48,360 --> 00:05:15,320 Are we sure that these monies that are invested are not going through this unconventional, irregular warfare that they use to drive their agenda by making sure that they keep us in check, in alignment with the principles, diplomatic, intelligence, financial, law enforcement, and economic programs of the United States of America, so that we are always in line with their own programs? 29 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:36,240 Does that inform the reason why, since you say it is also one of the organs that fund insurgency in the world, does that inform the reason why most of the places where you have the massive amount of NGOs, the crisis and the conflicts hardly cease, like vocal haram that is located in the remote part of Lake Chad. 30 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:44,120 Mr. Galba, Mr. Galba, Mr. Galba, I am trying to understand you, I am really trying to understand you here. 31 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:53,800 Are you saying that the USAID is a smokescreen for something entirely different, for which what you are saying, we cannot particularly provide proof. 32 00:05:53,800 --> 00:06:04,020 What we know you say to be is, you know, an interventionist agency providing intervention in the health sector, and some of these programs are known. 33 00:06:04,020 --> 00:06:18,980 And PEPFAR, you know, for instance, the programs are known, so I don't know if you have proof to provide, you know, to back up some of the things that you are saying, but what we know you say to be is entirely different. 34 00:06:18,980 --> 00:06:30,160 And that's why I want to refer to some of the data that we have, that is, you know, showing what we stand to lose as a result of this withdrawal of funding. 35 00:06:30,580 --> 00:06:40,060 If we can just show that data on the screen, there's a huge threat to job losses, you know, more than 100 employees. 36 00:06:40,060 --> 00:06:47,520 For those who responded to the survey, they said employee losses would be between 20 and 50 people each. 37 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,020 Overall, there is a sense of insecurity going forward. 38 00:06:52,020 --> 00:07:02,160 And at this point, perhaps it's important to also mention that, you know, some of those benefiting would rather not speak because of their grant that is still hanging. 39 00:07:02,620 --> 00:07:06,220 And this is what I want you to speak to, actually. 40 00:07:06,220 --> 00:07:20,820 If there's a huge threat of job losses, you know, and grants as a result of the USAID funds freeze, what are the lessons really that Nigeria, you know, should be taking away from this? 41 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:34,900 You see, just like you and like myself and so many other people, we used to think that USAID is actually in these countries to provide this intervention that it mentioned. 42 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:46,740 And that's why I referred to you a document that is related by the Department of the Army, of the U.S., Army Special Operations Forces, they call it ARSOF. 43 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:48,060 The document is online. 44 00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:49,160 You can check it. 45 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:50,720 You will see the operations. 46 00:07:50,720 --> 00:08:08,420 You will see so many activities that is being carried out in the name from the front are trying to intervene to help the citizen get by, to help in our educational endowment, health care challenges, especially on primary health care operations. 47 00:08:08,420 --> 00:08:17,140 But in essence, these operations are actually conducted to extract data so that further destabilization agenda can be pushed. 48 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:19,300 This is not being spoken by me. 49 00:08:19,860 --> 00:08:23,260 This is expressed by the United States government themselves. 50 00:08:23,820 --> 00:08:27,460 Elon Musk, in fact, even mentioned that USAID is actually a criminal organization. 51 00:08:27,460 --> 00:08:37,520 And you have several of these mentioned from Marco Rubio, who is the United States Secretary of Defense, you know, to the spokesperson of the United States government. 52 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:40,560 All of them are mentioned in this, including the Vice President J.D. Vance. 53 00:08:41,020 --> 00:08:43,340 So when you look at these things, even President Trump himself. 54 00:08:43,740 --> 00:08:49,580 So why I'm not saying that it is an information that is online that they are criminalizing the operations of USAID? 55 00:08:49,580 --> 00:09:03,100 So if the funders, the supporters, the encouragers, you know, the operational country of USAID is telling you that this is a criminal organization, then why should I actually accept it as something that is good? 56 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:04,260 This is the thing. 57 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,980 And the lesson is, of course, so many people are going to lose their job. 58 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,220 You have so many grants that is going to go off. 59 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:11,060 It is true. 60 00:09:11,340 --> 00:09:12,520 But what is the consequence? 61 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:17,100 What is the impact, the damages that this kind of operation is causing to countries? 62 00:09:17,100 --> 00:09:20,020 That's why I told you, just look at the top 10. 63 00:09:20,460 --> 00:09:21,560 I put it even on my page. 64 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:27,180 Just look at the top 10 that is released by Statista, the top 10 countries that get the most grant from USAID. 65 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:28,940 None of these countries is in peace. 66 00:09:29,060 --> 00:09:29,560 None of them. 67 00:09:30,020 --> 00:09:35,560 Somalia, you know, Ethiopia, South Sudan, Syria, Afghanistan. 68 00:09:36,500 --> 00:09:39,200 These are the countries that are getting money, including Nigeria. 69 00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:41,360 Nigeria is listed as number seven in these countries. 70 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:53,720 So if the U.S. themselves are saying that this is criminal and what they do is perpetrate evil in countries by carrying out irregular or unconventional warfare as a program of war on terror, 71 00:09:54,220 --> 00:09:57,880 then we should take you, say, you know, with a pinch of salt. 72 00:09:58,140 --> 00:09:58,620 Mr. Garba. 73 00:09:58,720 --> 00:09:59,720 Be very careful. 74 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:04,820 I think Nigerians have a structure of vetting NGOs before they even start operating. 75 00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:10,040 So let's establish some things, Mr. Garba, and be factual as much as possible. 76 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,020 Yes, we understand that there's been a change of government in the U.S. 77 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:23,200 So naturally, lots of we understand how the politics, the electioneering process, how they went, how a lot of things were very divisive. 78 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:28,460 So this is primarily a U.S. politics issue, right? 79 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,100 And you'd understand that once a new government comes in, lots of things are said. 80 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:38,760 And you can't take some of those things to the bank because they are local politics for America. 81 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:44,520 Secondly, a lot of those countries, I will show you some of the countries most affected, just show you that map. 82 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,820 And this is done by Accountability Lab. 83 00:10:47,180 --> 00:10:47,960 So you get a sense. 84 00:10:48,060 --> 00:10:49,000 Nigeria is there. 85 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:50,420 Ukraine, as you said, is there. 86 00:10:50,420 --> 00:10:57,220 But, you know, the color is not as deep as some other countries in North America or South America, as you can see. 87 00:10:57,820 --> 00:11:04,960 What you will know, Mr. Garba, and I'm sure you are aware of this, is a lot of this conflict started before the intervention of USAID. 88 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:10,540 And we'll go to the thematic areas that USAID has been involved in. 89 00:11:10,780 --> 00:11:16,740 Let's just move to that briefly so you'll see some of the areas that USAID has been providing intervention. 90 00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:20,580 So these conflicts happened, and then USAID came in. 91 00:11:20,740 --> 00:11:27,240 Some would say you're trying to blame the USAID for a conflict that happened prior to their intervention. 92 00:11:27,380 --> 00:11:39,460 But look at the areas that they've been involved in, areas of governance, health, and I'm sure you're aware of that, issues of anti-corruption, climate, gender as well. 93 00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:42,040 So this is backed by data. 94 00:11:42,540 --> 00:11:45,880 Are you not really blaming the wrong person? 95 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:54,120 Because some would say these countries should look inwards and look for the cause of the challenges and not blame USAID, Nigeria being one of them. 96 00:11:54,120 --> 00:12:02,920 You see, Coyote, this is because we are engineered, you know, with a colonial mindset. 97 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:10,820 So that is why we always keep thinking that this organization actually coming to intervene. 98 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:16,040 And you have a case that, like you mentioned, is it a chicken or the egg? 99 00:12:16,220 --> 00:12:17,180 Which one come first? 100 00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:20,240 But then I can give you a reference of what happened in Ukraine. 101 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:29,380 Ukraine, prior to the Kolo Revolution, was a very peaceful country in 2010, before Yulia Tymoshenko started Orange Revolution. 102 00:12:29,980 --> 00:12:32,080 And from there, you have Victoria Nekovitch coming. 103 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:34,100 The country was very stable. 104 00:12:34,580 --> 00:12:42,820 Before Victoria Nuland was appointed as Undersecretary of State of the United States, which her principal job, these records are online, 105 00:12:42,820 --> 00:12:50,520 is to see how they can undermine Ukraine because of the government support for the neighboring country of Russia and Belarus. 106 00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:53,040 And that is how it was engineered. 107 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,540 Zelensky came on board and this war started. 108 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,280 So where did USAID start? 109 00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:03,800 Now, look at the spent profile of USAID prior to that conflict and look at the peace that is in Ukraine. 110 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,440 Then look at the amount of money that they injected. 111 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,680 And then look at the conflict the way it is growing. 112 00:13:10,540 --> 00:13:18,220 So people will always want to say that this has been helping us, maybe giving you health and challenges and supporting these things. 113 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:26,000 But then even when you open the books, you will see that these activities that they carry out, 114 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,100 the supply chain of the material that they get all comes from the United States. 115 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:38,320 Again, the information they get, the weapons that gets to the terrorists, everyone has a question about it. 116 00:13:38,540 --> 00:13:43,220 And there are so many blames that have gone to the NGOs, not especially USAID. 117 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,100 And as I told you earlier, it is the same United States government. 118 00:13:47,820 --> 00:13:49,920 I am not talking about any other body. 119 00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:53,140 USAID is an agency of the United States. 120 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:58,880 And it is the same United States government that is telling us that this is a criminal organization. 121 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:08,980 So if we take it, you know, to the local political issue, then we will not be just to ourselves because we are also suffering from the consequences of this. 122 00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:15,960 Mr. Garba, just a moment for once a time so that we will wrap up the conversation. 123 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:26,160 I know there are so many things that have been said about, you said, in terms of undermining plovering things and all the things we've always spoken about 124 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,920 and accusation back and forth between the Democrats and the Republicans. 125 00:14:30,220 --> 00:14:31,920 But there is a question you are not answering. 126 00:14:32,540 --> 00:14:35,740 What do we need to do differently at the end of the day? 127 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,780 It is not just the United States that is giving aid. 128 00:14:37,940 --> 00:14:40,340 Aid comes to Africa from all over the place. 129 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,840 But more aid, then we get more impoverished and indebted at the end of the day. 130 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,040 What should we do to go forward? 131 00:14:47,140 --> 00:14:48,340 This is a checker. 132 00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:53,460 What signal should we get and do if you were to advise three things in one minute? 133 00:14:55,180 --> 00:14:55,700 Yes. 134 00:14:55,820 --> 00:14:57,900 Number one, I like the stand of the government. 135 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:03,080 Vice President was in Davos and then clearly stated the position of Nigerian government 136 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:11,400 that we would rather live with our poverty and with our dignity in our hands than to go with our ball in our hands begging for aid. 137 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:18,580 So it is important for Nigeria to begin to discuss equal terms with nations than to just go in for aid. 138 00:15:18,940 --> 00:15:26,540 So it is very important for us to unlock our productivity, to come inward, to see what we can do to enable our growth, 139 00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:33,580 to develop local capacity, to look inward deeply so that we can create programs and policies and framework 140 00:15:33,580 --> 00:15:39,340 that is in tune with our local realities in Nigeria, not always to be dependent on what is coming from the outside. 141 00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:46,800 Even the medicine like the immunization that is going and also some support that is given to maternal health care that we take from USAID, 142 00:15:47,060 --> 00:15:48,380 none of these drugs come from Nigeria. 143 00:15:48,820 --> 00:15:53,780 So why don't we leverage on our local traditional operations to be able to support ourselves? 144 00:15:54,300 --> 00:16:00,440 Why don't we look at how we can customize our education system to be in tune with our reality 145 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:08,340 as opposed to the colonially driven education system that gives us good English but at the end of the day highly gives us the job we need. 146 00:16:08,340 --> 00:16:11,200 You know, other than the service opportunity, we can hardly manufacture. 147 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:17,200 Most countries that grow successfully like China, like India, you find out that they localize their operations. 148 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:21,280 That is what I think we need to do than to depend on aid. 149 00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:23,100 I will thank you so much. 150 00:16:23,140 --> 00:16:24,460 It is an ongoing conversation. 151 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:30,700 This is time for Africa to look inward, time for Nigeria to look inward and begin to take care of ourselves by ourselves. 152 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:32,960 Maybe we will pick that mantra as well. 153 00:16:33,860 --> 00:16:40,980 Making Nigeria great again, if you will, because America has decided to look at themselves and sort out their internal issues, 154 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,960 even if it has to do with removing monies across the world. 155 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,740 Thank you, Mr. Garibar Damu, global affairs analyst and former presidential aspirant. 156 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:49,120 Thank you. 157 00:16:50,420 --> 00:16:51,420 Thank you for having me. 158 00:16:51,420 --> 00:16:53,320 We'll take a quick break. 159 00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:57,920 When we come back, how should women protect themselves before help comes? 160 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,780 Our security experts will give us what we need. 161 00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:01,580 Tell us what to do. 162 00:17:01,660 --> 00:17:01,940 Join us.