1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,980 G'day and welcome to Reality Check. Before we start this week's show, here's a little 2 00:00:05,980 --> 00:00:13,080 bit about our sponsor for this week. Dr. Stephen Gundry has this concept called caloric bypass. 3 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:22,340 He says the key to losing weight and keeping it off is not in carbs or fat or even in probiotic 4 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:28,520 rich foods. Instead, it comes down to a specific switch you can flip in your body to flush 5 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:35,060 out unnecessary calories. And by activating this specific process in our body, he says 6 00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:41,620 he's seen thousands of people dramatically improve their health, even at age 50 and beyond. 7 00:00:42,340 --> 00:00:47,560 Dr. Gundry has lost 70 pounds himself using his research and he's kept the weight off for 8 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:55,040 over 20 years and counting. His digestive issues are gone, his health is fantastic and he feels 9 00:00:55,040 --> 00:01:01,740 younger and healthier today than he did in his 40s. His video has been watched by over 10 00:01:01,740 --> 00:01:08,720 20 million people to date and you can watch and learn more about it at thehealthiefat.com 11 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:16,460 slash Ross. That's thehealthiefat.com slash Ross. It's linked at the bottom of this video 12 00:01:16,460 --> 00:01:23,400 and just click thehealthiefat.com slash Ross. Now, let's get on with the show. 13 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:34,460 Professor Gary Nolan, thank you so much for joining us. Can you firstly give me an idea 14 00:01:34,460 --> 00:01:39,860 of your credentials to talk about the injuries and the person that we're going to be talking 15 00:01:39,860 --> 00:01:49,220 about today? So, I'm a PhD molecular immunologist in the Department of Pathology at Stanford University. 16 00:01:50,340 --> 00:01:58,560 My background has been in developing technologies to deeply understand how the immune system goes 17 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:04,080 awry, whether it's in autoimmunity or cancer. And over the years, we've developed a number of 18 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:11,060 instruments and approaches that are now used around the world for doing exactly that. You've been involved 19 00:02:11,060 --> 00:02:18,320 before, I know, in special investigations into service personnel and intelligence personnel who 20 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:24,280 suffered injuries, exposures of an anomalous nature. What can you tell us about those investigations? 21 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:33,680 So, those investigations started literally almost 12 years ago when representatives from the CIA and 22 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:39,600 Aerospace Corporation showed up at my office here at Stanford and knocked on the door, completely 23 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:46,080 unexpected to me with no prior arrangement, and said that they needed my help with a number of 24 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:55,760 servicemen, probably a few dozen at the time, who had encountered everything from rashes, headaches, 25 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:04,080 a number of other ailments, as well as, in the rare cases, claiming that they had seen some sort of 26 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:11,120 anomalous objects. The long and the short of it was that after looking at the data that was provided to me 27 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:19,760 by the people who came to my door on that day, I realized that this was not a joke because you can't fake the 28 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:31,600 kinds of MRIs and CAT scans that I had seen that showed clear and acute and now chronic damage. I mean, you can't have 29 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:37,840 the kind of acute damage that was represented on those, on the data that I was shown, and not expect to have 30 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:45,760 long-term consequences because of it. So, the reason they had come to me was because they wanted to understand the 31 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:52,640 inflammatory processes that might have been occurring in the blood, and my laboratory at the time, and still 32 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:58,880 today, actually has the world's best devices for looking at inflammatory processes in the blood. 33 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,600 What were you able to conclude from that research? 34 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:11,360 Well, many of the events that were brought to me at the time had occurred so long ago that there was no residual 35 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:18,400 trace in the blood, nor would I have expected to see that. But in follow-ups with a number of the 36 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:26,880 individuals, including one of the people about whom we'll talk today, again, there's no possibility of 37 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:35,280 not having long-term consequences that are inclusive of autoimmune disorders. And so, in the rare individuals 38 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:41,840 that I was able to follow up with over time, they also had these same kinds of long-term consequences. 39 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:48,800 So, you have an acute injury of some kind that ends up being a long-term downside for you. 40 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,760 Professor, what can you tell me about the specific nature of the kind of injuries you were seeing 41 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,720 back then when you started doing this research for the CIA? 42 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:06,480 So, whole-body sclerosis, meaning patches of redness across the skin, 43 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:14,880 dyscracias of the blood at the time we're seeing, meaning in some of those individuals, 44 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:23,360 long-term apparent imbalances in the numbers of cell types that you should expect to see in the white 45 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:27,360 blood cells. We weren't able to go into gory detail about it, again, given the long-term 46 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:37,760 nature of this. But, you know, certainly almost a form of PTSD, not only because of the events 47 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:43,920 as they had occurred, but the lack of follow-through by the Department of Defense and the Veterans 48 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:53,200 Administration for their long-term care. Actually, and interestingly, leading to now a document that's been put 49 00:05:53,200 --> 00:06:00,400 out by the government on anomalous health incidents that covers, in an umbrella sense, a lot of these kinds of disorders. 50 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:05,520 One of the cases I've investigated, and I know you've taken an interest in the subject as well, 51 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:12,720 is the Rendlesham case of 1980. And it's public information that a man called John Burrows was exposed 52 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:19,760 to some kind of an injury, allegedly as a result of his exposure to an anomalous object in that event. 53 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,840 Are you able to talk at all about anything that you know about that case? 54 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:32,000 Um, you know, I really shouldn't because, uh, it does, although some, it's, it's HIPAA protected. 55 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:40,480 I am aware of things behind the scenes related to John that are, you know, anything I could say 56 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:48,000 probably touches on HIPAA-related knowledge. I mean, what is, though, public, and I can talk about, 57 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:57,920 is that, uh, John McCain, Senator McCain, was able to overcome a block that the Department 58 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:04,240 of Defense had initiated on John's medical records. And because that block was in place, 59 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:10,240 John was unable to get the Veterans Administration to agree that he should be insured for the kinds of 60 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:17,040 ailments that he was claiming. Um, because of the intervention of some individuals, uh, through, 61 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:24,640 uh, Harry, sorry, through, uh, John McCain, uh, they were able to overcome the block to the VA, 62 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:31,360 release his medical report, that which was sealed, uh, and that allowed him to get the care that he 63 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:37,920 needed. And that probably saved his life. Is it a causation or a correlation? Are you able to say 64 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:45,600 definitively that anomalous events, possibly involving UAPs, perhaps non-human technology of 65 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:52,000 some kind, have they caused injuries or is there merely a correlation of injuries that you've seen? 66 00:07:52,640 --> 00:08:01,840 I've seen, unfortunately, no direct causation. I've seen situations where people have come to me 67 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:08,720 and said the following occurred, uh, and here are the medical, uh, events that I didn't have prior 68 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:16,720 to this occurrence. So all I, all I have are stories that other people come to me with that are, 69 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:25,920 you would call secondhand stories. Um, but I have seen the damage and I can't explain what it is that 70 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:31,440 the damage, what would have actually caused such damage absent some kind of radiation. 71 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:38,400 So that was my next question is, is what you're seeing in some cases consistent with exposure to 72 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:45,360 damaging gamma radiation? Uh, well, there's all kinds of ionizing radiation gamma amongst them. Uh, 73 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:52,240 so any kind of, I mean enough heat on you is, which is a kind of radiation, uh, it's just a different 74 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:59,360 frequency would cause, um, different kinds of damage. It's the, it's the damage inside of the body 75 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,720 that you're most worried about. I mean, there's surface damage, of course. Let's talk about Jake 76 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:13,520 Barber. You've had an opportunity, haven't you, to meet Jake and essentially take a, a history from him. 77 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:21,120 Uh, we're talking about his condition with his permission. So HIPAA is not an issue here, but 78 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:28,400 obviously we're respectful of his privacy. Um, what can you tell us about what he exposed to? 79 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:37,760 Well, I've looked at all of, uh, Jake's medical reports going back to practically, I think 1998, uh, 80 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:48,640 2000, uh, and I think he was 21 or 23 or so at the time. Um, and the acute, uh, injuries were obviously 81 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:58,400 severe, uh, including, uh, erythema all the way down the arm, sloughing off of skin from the arm, uh, 82 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:05,920 long-term damage. I mean, the, the, the report reads like a bit of a horror show to be quite honest. 83 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:17,280 Um, and, uh, I, I wouldn't say that his physicians were not responsive to the need, but what I saw 84 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:26,960 throughout was, uh, a confusion on the part of the physicians as to what could possibly cause this. 85 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,440 I mean, they can drop it into a set of symptomologies, but they can't explain why under one 86 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:40,320 particular, uh, causation you would get all of these things. Absent to me, what the first thing 87 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:47,840 that came to mind was you were exposed to some kind of radiation. And so I, uh, especially since I only 88 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:54,480 came to know Jake in the last year or so, my, uh, strong recommendation to him at the time was, 89 00:10:54,480 --> 00:11:03,600 we need to get a full workup of what it is and how it stands now. Because if this was radiation, 90 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,760 I mean, one of the obvious consequences of radiation, especially something which would 91 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:14,880 cause this kind of systemic effect is cancer. And so you need a baseline whole body MRI done 92 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:20,400 so that maybe you don't have something now. Uh, but that, you know, the best thing in cancer 93 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:26,320 is that you can see a change that has occurred over time. So let's get that done. Um, and I saw, 94 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:33,680 had him seen by one of the world's best rheumatologists, uh, to make sure that we had the blood drawn 95 00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:40,960 from him, not just as a standard, uh, um, white blood cell count and things like that, but to be able 96 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:46,880 to do a full on rheumatologic test for the kinds of cofactors and things that I know can be done 97 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:54,320 with modern, uh, modern tests today that probably weren't, well, I know weren't done, uh, back in the day. 98 00:11:54,320 --> 00:12:02,720 Do you think the secrecy surrounded the kind of operations that Jake did as a tier one operator, 99 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:08,480 do you think the secrecy confounded the proper medical treatment that he should have received 100 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:14,320 despite the perhaps good intentions of his doctors? I, I, it's a great question. I would have to talk 101 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:20,400 to Jake to see whether or not he was ever denied anything, but certainly he wasn't given the kinds 102 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:26,320 of advice that he should have been given, I would say, because the, what the advice that I gave him 103 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:31,600 was here are the X, Y, Z things that you need to have done for you. And here are the kinds of people 104 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:40,400 that you need to see. So had the VA been on their toes and had the VA, let's say, because of the kinds 105 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:50,000 of, um, situations, uh, and deployments that Jake was, uh, put into, uh, you know, and the kinds of 106 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:57,840 complaints that he came back to any manager, uh, who had even, uh, an inkling of empathy or forethought 107 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:03,520 would have said, Hey, uh, here's what we need to go have done for you X, Y, Z. And especially as I 108 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:13,120 understand it, uh, a number of his, uh, um, coworkers in the deployments that he was in, uh, had similar 109 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:19,120 problems. So you're not dealing with a one-off who went home and somehow, uh, came in contact with 110 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:24,960 something in the house, but you have, uh, four or five individuals all at once coming down with the 111 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:31,200 same thing, uh, within a week or so after deployment, uh, that's more than a coincidence. 112 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:39,600 So can I just clarify here, professor, you've been able to look at all of Jake's four military 113 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:46,400 medical records, uh, and you've been able to satisfy yourself as to the level of, essentially what, 114 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:52,080 what's described about what he suffered. What did the records show about the purported injury that 115 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:57,680 he suffered? Well, the, uh, well, first of all, having to, trying to read some of the doctor's 116 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:05,200 scribbling was hard enough, but, um, the, uh, you know, it was, it was very clear that there 117 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:11,840 were acute injuries to the arm and, uh, the legs, uh, sorry, the arms and the hands. So here are some of 118 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:18,800 the consolidated findings. One of them, uh, that I know he deals with even to this day is, uh, 119 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:24,640 alopecia, a form of something called migratory alopecia, uh, hair loss that moves from one area 120 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:30,880 of the body to the other. And that's consistent with a kind of autoimmune reaction, which is that 121 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:36,720 the immune system takes care of something once, or you get some sort of local injury and on one day 122 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:43,600 or one week. And then that initiates an immune reaction, uh, in one place or another, uh, another 123 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:51,440 is a vesicular rash. So, uh, skin eruptions, which are characterized by small blister filling things, 124 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:58,800 again, a kind of autoimmunity, but it's not an autoimmunity that you get with, you know, when you 125 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:05,520 have, when you have, um, one kind of autoimmunity, usually it doesn't come and show up as five 126 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:10,560 different kinds of autoimmunities. Here are some other ones. Uh, and this is related in, in fact, 127 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:18,880 to it, uh, a form of, uh, infection with the yeast candida, uh, candida albicans. And so you get something 128 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:27,680 called candidaidaeus, chronic mucocutaneous candidiasis. Uh, and that's a form of yeast infection. 129 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,240 And what's interesting about that is that basically means at least one of two things. 130 00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:38,720 One is that you have either underlying immune disorder that's occurring, uh, which is allowing 131 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:45,680 for the, for the candida to grow on the skin, or you have some kind of disruption in the dermal 132 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,440 apparatus and dermal protection, which means that you've had some sort of autoimmune reaction, which 133 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,600 allows for the skin to be broken. The candida lands, it's in our environment, grows, that forms 134 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:04,480 and causes further rashes, et cetera. And that sets up, um, sort of, you, you, you start with, uh, a brush 135 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:13,520 fire and soon it becomes a full on forest fire. That's one of them. Um, and it looks like, uh, a general 136 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:20,960 autoimmune, uh, this disease, erythematosus, uh, maculopapular dry lesions on the hands and feet, 137 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:28,240 all of these things adding up to a disrupted immune system that's been set off kilter and is unable to 138 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:35,520 right itself again. Uh, and so the only kinds of things that, uh, cause that are either, uh, intense 139 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:42,800 exposure to toxins of one kind or another, an intense infection at one point in one's life that can set 140 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:51,200 these kinds of things off, uh, or some kind of, um, consequential exposure to, uh, radiation of some 141 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:58,080 kind. So that's what you've been able to reduce from the medical records. You've done a whole series 142 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:08,000 of tests now, uh, and you've obviously, I haven't done any tests. Um, tests have been done, but they 143 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:16,320 have not provided him, uh, the results yet. So you believe that one of the plausible explanations for 144 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,920 why Drake has the injuries that he's clearly suffered is that potentially he's been exposed to 145 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:28,720 some kind of severe radiation. Yeah. I mean, that's the easiest, uh, reach for this. Now there's ways 146 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:37,840 to test for that. There might be ways to test for, um, in the skin, uh, an excess of, uh, mutation. 147 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:45,440 Uh, in the skin. Now, interestingly, um, one of the things that, uh, Jake has, although it could be 148 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:53,440 just due to intense sun exposure is, um, what are called atypical compound nevus. Uh, and those are 149 00:17:53,440 --> 00:18:00,560 these, uh, irregularly shaped brown spots that very often Caucasians have, and you're more likely to find 150 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:09,760 them in people of, uh, Irish or Celtic descent. But, um, atypical compound nevus is a form of, 151 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:20,160 it's a result of exposure to damaging radiation of one kind or another. One of the anomalies, 152 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:28,400 if you like, about Jake's story is officially in his DD 214. He's only described as an aircraft 153 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:35,200 mechanic, but it's clear from his service record and, and the fuller extent of the details of his 154 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:40,400 service that we've been able to obtain from the documents and also from some of his fellow 155 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:48,160 colleagues. He was clearly operating as an elite tier one operator in a very covert role with the 156 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:56,400 U S government. Is that your impression as well? Yes. Um, my interactions with Jake, uh, over the last 157 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:06,640 year, including, uh, visiting him at a, let's call it a work site, uh, clearly indicated to me that Jake's, 158 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:16,400 uh, not just a helicopter operator. Uh, he's, he's, he's not a taxi. Uh, that's for sure. Um, and his 159 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:24,080 level of knowledge and the things that he was able to, uh, talk to me about that were not, uh, 160 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:30,720 releasing or providing any information he wasn't supposed to provide, but the people with whom he 161 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:38,720 surrounded himself, uh, and their level of activity and action, uh, was they're not just a conveyor of 162 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:46,320 somebody's goods that they are deeply knowledgeable about this subject matter. And it actually for me 163 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:54,640 watching and listening to the kinds of things that, uh, they did the, the level of sophistication of 164 00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:02,400 things that are going on behind the scenes was, uh, eye opening to me. Let's talk about in a limited way 165 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:10,080 what you personally witnessed. Um, there was a summoning, there was a psionic operator brought to 166 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:19,200 a location. We won't stipulate where, what did you see? Well, I, I saw two things. One, I saw, uh, an 167 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:30,400 individual who claimed the ability to me, which is even to me is almost unbelievable to hear that somebody 168 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:39,680 claims to have that kind of, um, um, capability. Um, but we also had somebody with us who was, uh, 169 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:51,440 using, uh, electromagnetic, uh, summoning, if you will, uh, basically putting out, um, radio frequency 170 00:20:52,240 --> 00:21:00,000 that might or might not be attractive to alleged craft. Um, I personally didn't see anything in the 171 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:07,680 sky or on the ground, but what I did see was an individual, uh, who in the midst of attempting to, 172 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:15,280 um, call such an object, which again, to anybody listening and my science colleagues who might hear 173 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:21,440 me say this was just, it was just, I, I, I don't even believe that I'm sitting here seeing 174 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:30,480 this exactly at the moment, uh, that he said he was, uh, interacting with something. 175 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:42,000 Uh, the individual on the roof who had the cameras saw something. Now, they didn't know, 176 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:47,840 nor were they in contact with each other, but we could hear, uh, a commotion on the roof. 177 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:55,920 Uh, when everything was over and we had, uh, calmed down the individual who, uh, said that he had 178 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:03,920 had some issues in, uh, or in the process of this summoning, um, and we made sure that medically he 179 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,560 was okay, uh, because on the team we actually did have somebody who was medically trained. 180 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:17,360 Uh, when we reviewed what it was that the person on the roof had seen, both by drawing and 181 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:28,720 by videography, uh, something showed up. Uh, I mean, it was fleeting, uh, but it was clearly not a bug. 182 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:38,160 And so, uh, what do I have? I have a person who claims to be doing something. Uh, it was clear that 183 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:44,800 he was in distress at the moment of the, uh, supposed interaction. And at that moment, 184 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,360 something is seen. What do you have? You have a court, you have a correlation. You don't have a 185 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:59,600 causation. Um, and so that's, that's it. But I was there not to provide any conclusions. I was there 186 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:05,440 to make sure that everything that was being done was being done in a scientifically accurate way, 187 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:13,760 as dispassionately as possible, uh, and to be part of the, uh, of the advisor team to make sure that 188 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:19,600 this was done in a way that at some point, if it ever wanted to be put together into a scientific paper, 189 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:26,560 we had collected the kind of metadata required, uh, to say, well, we might not have a conclusion, 190 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:32,720 but here is at least a story that tells us, um, that the data which we're providing 191 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,960 to perhaps some future event might be looked back to and said, oh, well, what happened there worked, 192 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:43,840 that didn't work. So let's try this again so that we can perhaps make it repeatable. 193 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:49,360 So professor, on the evidence you've seen, do you find it plausible that the U S government 194 00:23:49,360 --> 00:24:03,520 is using psionic psychic operators to attract UAP NHI craft? I can only say what I, what I saw there 195 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,760 was somebody who claimed to be interacting with something. Um, do I think it's possible? Ah, 196 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:15,920 you know, we're already, uh, working in the world of the Elon Musks, 197 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:22,880 who were putting devices into people's brains to be able to talk directly to brains. I have no 198 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:28,240 problem imagining a technology a thousand years from now where even humans can interact with each 199 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:35,040 other in some sort of pseudo psionic, psionic manner. I, I don't know what it is that, uh, might be 200 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:43,440 required to interact with a non-human intelligence. But what I can say is that the area within which we 201 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:54,080 were working, uh, was, uh, absent of any possible overfly from commercial jets because it was a 202 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:03,920 mandated area where nothing such could occur. So what it was that we saw wasn't a flyover. 203 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:09,920 It certainly wasn't a bug. Uh, so we can get rid of all of those, um, opportunities. 204 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:18,160 But the fact that the group with whom we were working were able to openly operate in this area 205 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:24,800 because they had openly operated in this kind of area before, uh, and knew how to do it tells me 206 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:33,600 that there's a process in place for individuals of this type to access where they're freely allowed to, 207 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:40,880 uh, do what they're, what they're doing. I think we can expect, uh, as has happened in the past, 208 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:47,360 that there may be attempt to disinform the public about Jake Barber. What are you able to tell me 209 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:53,840 about your impressions of the authenticity and the honesty of Jake Barber as a result of your 210 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:59,600 interactions with him? Oh, I worked with him directly for a week and anybody who thinks that he's other 211 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:06,080 than what he presents himself as, uh, just should get out of the way. Um, there's no reason to think 212 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:13,840 of him as anything other than an honest broker at every level, ethical to the nth degree, empathic to 213 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:21,760 a degree that I wouldn't frankly bizarrely expect as an academic elitist, uh, from somebody in a military 214 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:29,600 capacity as such that he is, far more human than many of the scientists with whom I have to interact 215 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:36,880 every day. These men, and we've interviewed Jake and his colleagues, including the man who was on the 216 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:44,320 roof with the cameras, um, these men have been profoundly, haven't they, by what they've witnessed? 217 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:52,800 Yes. And again, you have individuals whose daily job is to protect the United States. I mean, 218 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:58,080 that's their day job. That's what their day job has been for the last many years. Uh, and anybody 219 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:05,360 who thinks that these are not professionals, uh, who, uh, have something to say and are in, I think, 220 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:12,160 the most scientifically accurate sense, they've seen something anomalous. They recognize it as being 221 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:19,600 out of place. They're willing to put their lives, their families, their jobs, their reputations on the 222 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:25,920 line to point out to others that this is something that should be paid attention to. I mean, that's just 223 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:36,080 the very nature of forward movement, uh, and that anybody, scientists or governments or anybody would 224 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:43,840 try to disinform or stigmatize that just is, it's, to me, it's just, it's a level of vileness 225 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:50,800 and disreputable behavior that I just don't, I don't understand how anybody could do it and say 226 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:56,720 that just because it's my job to do it, that I should do it. They should just, anybody who, who, 227 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,960 that's their job, they should resign. 228 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:07,280 Let's be very clear about this, sir. Jake Barber and his colleagues allege that they have been 229 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:17,920 party to an operation involving the luring of and shooting down of and retrieval of non-human 230 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:24,000 technology, alien spacecraft. Do you find their accounts plausible? 231 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:31,520 I sat at dinner several evenings, uh, over beers and otherwise while we were, uh, partaking in this 232 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:39,280 operation and I heard nothing that would tell me that what they were telling me was not true. 233 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:47,440 It all seemed to fit together in a way that, in some of the details that I, I, I don't, I don't know 234 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:53,840 what was relayed, but some of the details were so astounding to me, I found, I felt like I was 235 00:28:53,840 --> 00:29:03,200 sitting in a science fiction movie. Until I thought to myself, well, if some of these observations are true, 236 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:12,080 that people are claiming to see or involve themselves with, what would you need to construct 237 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:19,840 the behind the scenes? That is, that sensibly, even in a science fiction setting, makes sense of all of 238 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:29,920 this. And what I heard was at least a story that tied it together. But the story that tied it together 239 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:40,720 involved a level of government complicity and medical complicity from individuals who, how could you 240 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:46,800 possibly subject some of these individuals? And I saw some of the medical reports, again, of other 241 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:54,080 individuals who are part of these teams, like, how could you be complicit in doing this to some of these 242 00:29:54,080 --> 00:30:03,440 individuals and signing off on it? I mean, your name is right there. We know who you are and you're still 243 00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:15,600 doing what you were doing before. It just astounds me that the records are as clear as day. It's not, 244 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,120 some of these, especially the medical records, are not, hey, someone's telling me something. The medical 245 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:28,320 records are there. And they're the same kinds of medical records that I got when the CIA showed up in 246 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:34,160 my office. And it's that level of detail. All you can say is somebody isn't doing their job. 247 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:41,840 So Professor, as Jake Barber describes it, he and his colleagues were asked to escort what he describes 248 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:49,120 as a very large box on an on a flight, which brought this object, whatever it was inside the box, 249 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:57,200 back to the continental United States. They were never told what was in the box. But he got very, 250 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,880 very sick, he and his colleagues in the days following their exposure, their close proximity 251 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:10,240 to that box. Now, are you able to say, are you able to make any kind of a conclusion at all about 252 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:16,800 the nature of the radiation that they received? Was it anomalous? Or were, are you able to reach any 253 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:25,440 conclusion about the perhaps what might be the cause of that radiation? Well, I mean, what you can say at the 254 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,720 least is that there was a form of penetrative radiation, because it was more than just skin 255 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:38,560 damage. Some of the apparent damage went skin deep, right, or went deeper into the bodies. 256 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,840 Now, I haven't seen any MRIs from these individuals to look for the scarring, but the 257 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:54,240 the kinds of effects such as the whole body depilation loss of hair, and not just on the 258 00:31:55,200 --> 00:32:02,640 side of the body that you're sitting next to it on the on the helicopter or plane, 259 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,280 but that its whole body means that it probably penetrated through the body, 260 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,240 right? So you've got it with your back to you, you've got it in the front, but your eyebrows, 261 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:22,800 the hair falls out, etc. So penetrative generally means gamma, you know, or very high level radiation. 262 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:31,520 It's not just something like alpha or low, low energy. So I can't say what was in the box, 263 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:39,760 obviously, it could have been from a nuclear powered airplane, for all I know. It doesn't matter, 264 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:48,240 some sort of test vehicle. But that they were not made aware of what was going to be in the box, 265 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:57,200 that sounds unethical, that you're told to go pick up something which is known to be radiative. 266 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:05,760 Uh, that's, to me, problematic. Now, from the previous and unrelated work that you've done 267 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:14,320 with the CIA, you've examined military service personnel who've been exposed to what sounds like 268 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:22,560 anomalous phenomena, including potentially directed energy weapons of some kind. What you're seeing 269 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:29,600 with Jake are similar types of injuries, correct? Right. So over the 100 or so individuals that we 270 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:41,040 looked at, they had a panoply of different symptoms. The majority of those patients, 85 to 90% of them, 271 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:47,920 of the literally 100 that we looked at, it was pretty clear that they had symptomologies that were so 272 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:55,120 similar to Havana syndrome as it would be easy enough to say, these are Havana syndrome. Now, Havana syndrome 273 00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:03,440 is actually a syndrome, in medical terminology, is a set of symptoms. It's not like a disease, 274 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:12,960 like COVID causes disease, Ebola causes a disease, and you have a specific set of expected outcomes. 275 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:19,440 In both those cases, some of those outcomes could be death. Um, in a symptom or a syndrome, 276 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:26,720 I should say, it's usually you have about 20 or so different symptoms, which you have to have, 277 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:34,880 let's say, 15 of those symptoms to be classified under the syndrome. Uh, so some of the individuals, 278 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:42,320 even those that we said were Havana syndrome had sclerosis on their skin. So they, there's some, 279 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:48,960 whatever the radiation was that's being, was being used caused radiate, caused damage to the skin. 280 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,920 Other would get headaches. Now that makes perfect sense because if over the course of 20 years, 281 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,360 whosoever was using these directed energy weapons, uh, developed better and better versions of it, 282 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,800 you would expect that the damage that it causes over those decades would be different. No problem there. 283 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:15,360 Um, but when you have now, uh, a situation such as a radiation, such as what, uh, Jake Barber was, uh, 284 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:24,640 exposed to, it would fall under some of the symptoms, uh, of, um, of, uh, Havana syndrome, 285 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:32,880 but would have in this case, especially long-term 20 plus year consequences of a disrupted immune system 286 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:38,640 that has, uh, really basically, uh, I'm surprised he can, he can function as well as he does day to day. 287 00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:46,480 What do you think of the ethics of the decisions made by the people who obviously made the orders 288 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:51,920 to send people like Jake into these operations? What do you think of the ethics of the people 289 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:58,480 behind these operations in deploying young men and indeed young women into situations where they 290 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:04,800 have been exposed to dangerous levels of radiation? You know, I mean, I, I understand that in the 291 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:11,840 military, uh, tough choices have to be made. And if the, uh, uh, and you sign up for a certain level 292 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,840 of, of danger all the way up to and including death. So, um, on all sides, I, I honor what they, 293 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:24,400 what they've done. But I also think that there's an ethics of do no harm, uh, when you don't have to. 294 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:31,600 And so in a situation where you could, you know, unless there was some desperate need to get to it 295 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:40,400 before somebody else did or put other people under harms in harm's way, uh, to the very least send them 296 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:48,400 with the kinds of protective gear that they could have had to prevent what did happen, uh, is silence 297 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:55,520 either unethical or an administrative oversight, uh, that needs investigation by Congress because 298 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,760 we shouldn't be putting, uh, people like this under such circumstances. 299 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:06,320 So, Gary, I know that you've, I know that you've taken an interest previously 300 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:14,560 case, which was the Raf Bentwaters case at a British air base, which the Americans were also occupying 301 00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:21,760 in around 1980. And there were a number of military personnel who reported coming into contact with 302 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:29,920 what they say was a craft of some kind acting anomalously in the Rendlesham forest adjacent to 303 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:36,000 a military base that we know carried nuclear weapons for the American military. And one of the personnel 304 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:42,640 that was the close up to the craft, in fact, probably one of the closest was an airman named 305 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:50,560 John Burroughs. And I'm aware that John Burroughs medical reports were at one stage withheld by the 306 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:56,240 American government, uh, and they were declined to be provided to him so that he could get the treatment 307 00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:01,440 that he needed from Veterans Affairs, the VA. What do you know about that case? 308 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:07,520 Well, certainly everything you said, uh, that you just told me there, I know about. I mean, 309 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:14,640 I was working with individuals behind the scenes to try to get the relevant information, uh, to John 310 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:20,160 McCain so that we could get his, uh, medical records declassified. They were classified. They just 311 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:28,160 weren't withheld. They were classified. Um, and what was happening was that, uh, Mr. Burroughs could not 312 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:33,280 get the medical attention he needed because the insurance services and the VA wouldn't, uh, allow 313 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:40,800 for it. So again, you have a, you have a situation where someone has been, uh, so let's say that 314 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:49,520 whatever it was that was at, um, uh, at that site was a U.S. military test object. 315 00:38:49,520 --> 00:39:00,880 Why would you put your, your military service people in harm's way? First of all, uh, maybe 316 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:05,280 they didn't know what the danger was, either the people putting them in harm's way or not, 317 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:12,160 but then why would you subsequently feel that the issue was so important as to not, uh, allow 318 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:19,040 for that person's medical records to be released? What are you hiding? What's being hidden here? When it 319 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:26,400 turned out that it required a senator in the U.S. to directly demand to the Department of Defense, 320 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:32,080 release it or I will. It really does beg the question, Professor, doesn't it? Is the reason 321 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:38,800 for the continuing non-disclosure about a non-human intelligence that's allegedly engaging with, 322 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:45,840 is it really for the high-minded reasons that are often cited privately by the gatekeepers, 323 00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:52,000 or is it perhaps because they're worried about being held to account for the allegedly unethical 324 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,640 and potentially illegal, if not criminal, things that we're talking about today? 325 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:02,720 Yeah, I mean, that to me is when I'm asked, what is it that, uh, might be the reasons for things being 326 00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:07,760 hidden? I don't think it's because the populace is going to go running, screaming into the streets, 327 00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:12,880 worried about, you know, non-human intelligence. I think they're really still, as we see today, 328 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:19,520 worried about what puts foods on the, on the table. Um, I think you're right. One of the main 329 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:24,880 reasons certainly could be we don't want this information out because I'm going to get in 330 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:30,480 trouble. Someone's going to get in trouble for something unethical. Where's the paperwork that 331 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:36,320 these people are filling out to make sure that the people that they're responsible to and for 332 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,120 are being taken care of the way that they should. And it's certainly when it comes to the long-term 333 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:47,840 consequences of human health, uh, and then the health of their children. I mean, God, if you were 334 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:54,880 putting a serviceman in a radiative position, they should be worried about what kind of things are 335 00:40:54,880 --> 00:41:01,280 happening to their children because they're going to have children. You know, and, and that's, 336 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:12,320 it's mind-blowing to me that somebody would try to hide this and not counsel, uh, the servicemen as 337 00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,000 to the dangers, not only to themselves, but also to the children that they might have one day. 338 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:24,720 So professor, clearly there is an allegation that I personally find highly confronting and incredible. 339 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:32,480 at the heart of the claims being made by Jake and his colleagues. The allegation is that the United 340 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:39,840 States government is secretly colluding with private corporations using what are called 341 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:48,400 operators, people with purported psychic abilities. What do you think of these allegations? 342 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,520 Well, if they're true, it's probably one of the most extraordinary things I've ever heard. 343 00:41:53,520 --> 00:42:02,640 Um, I don't know anything other than what I heard sitting across the table, uh, from the individual, 344 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:09,920 individuals claiming to be involved in this process and claiming what their history has been with the, 345 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:16,480 uh, U S government going back to their childhood. I mean, it's just, uh, I don't know what to think. 346 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:25,680 It, it, it, it, it's extraordinary. I mean, the only place I can relate it to my own work is where I've been 347 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:32,800 looking at the caudic attainment, um, and the connections there where we did see in, let's call 348 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,400 them high functioning individuals, mostly very intelligent individuals, uh, that this was the heart 349 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:44,000 of where intuition happens. And we came to that conclusion independently of what was happening in 350 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:51,520 the rest of the world where simultaneous analyses by mainstream scientists had come to the conclusion 351 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:58,480 that we did that day because of the work that we were doing with the, with those, uh, patients that 352 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:08,240 this is the area where intuition happens. Well, what's another word for remote viewing or clairvoyance 353 00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:13,040 or whatever you want to call it in a purely scientific sense, somebody with darn good intuition. 354 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:20,080 So as I've said before, uh, you know, if you wanted to know where such an ability might exist, 355 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:26,160 might allege to be existing, uh, that would be the heart of it in the caudate attainment. And what we've 356 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:34,000 found found interestingly is that people with, who had claimed high function in remote viewing 357 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:42,160 were at the highest of the list of those who had this connectivity pattern. So there's something 358 00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:49,120 interesting there. Again, I don't have a conclusion as to what it is, but there's enough data there for 359 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:56,080 me to say it's well worth looking into, uh, and how could we perhaps turn this function on? Wouldn't you 360 00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:02,640 like to be able to predict which way the dice might roll? And the fascinating thing to me is that 361 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:08,000 whilst you have one section of the US military denying that there is such a thing as psychic 362 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:16,080 phenomena and telepathy, it's the CIA's own records that there's been a continuing investigation into the 363 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:24,400 phenomenon since the 1970s Stargate program that Hal Puthoff played a role in at SRI. They've never really 364 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:34,960 stopped investigating the phenomenon of alleged psychic behavior. Well, it continued, uh, into, um, 365 00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:43,600 the 80s and 90s in, uh, military programs, uh, that were eventually at one point called the Spidey 366 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:51,840 Sense program, where what they were doing was they were identifying, uh, people in squads who the rest of 367 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:58,080 the squad member said, Hey, when Joe says, don't go that way, we should go that way. The people that they 368 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:06,080 trusted. Now, maybe they were picking up something, I mean, a skeptic and I'm a skeptic. They pick up 369 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:12,480 something in the, in the atmosphere that says, don't go that way. It just, it feels wrong. And we go this 370 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:21,600 way. So people who are survival survivalists by virtue of just good guesses, but you know, there's 371 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:27,600 something to be said for the, you know, the, the primate that knows not to go down this path 372 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:33,280 because there's a jaguar down that path and you go down this path because it's safe. Uh, and you pick 373 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:39,920 up something else that is in the ether. And by that, I mean something that isn't what you would call a 374 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:46,400 natural electromagnetic interaction, but there might be something else going on at another level, 375 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,720 uh, that the human brain is capable of, uh, understanding and manifesting into thought. 376 00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:58,000 I'm perfectly fine with that until you can take it off the table as an option to say that all 377 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:06,400 interactions are electromagnetic, then, uh, it's a possibility. I mean, we don't know how two objects 378 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:12,880 at a distance in quantum interaction somehow communicate, you know, and that, and that, 379 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:20,560 that puzzles the world's best physicists to this day. And they call it quantum non-locality. Well, 380 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:26,000 what the heck does that mean? You know, it can mean a lot of stuff, but what it means is, 381 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:31,680 as far as most people are concerned, it's some form of interaction at a distance without 382 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:37,760 electromagnetic interaction. So that's really all you're talking about when you say psionics. 383 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:45,360 So, you know, I, I don't know. I can imagine a lot of real world ways it could be done 384 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:52,640 without, without, uh, you know, being dependent upon something that other people would call 385 00:46:52,640 --> 00:47:00,880 woo or magic. I'm perfectly fine with something, uh, let's call it psionics, something psi-based 386 00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:05,040 that is just a form of communication and, and physics that we don't quite yet understand. 387 00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:11,760 Maybe there's a way to interact with quantum interaction at a distance that somebody else 388 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:17,280 has mastered and we haven't yet, but they're perfectly able to either use it to transmit 389 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:24,400 or receive. There is coming, isn't there, professor, for what has been done 390 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:32,400 inside what we loosely call the program? There are people who are going to have to be held to account 391 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:39,200 for their decisions and their actions. I hope so. Perhaps the new administration in coming, 392 00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:47,280 will feel that there's a level of transparency that can be brought to this, uh, um, issue in a way 393 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:54,720 that prior administrations couldn't. Uh, I certainly heard a lot of rumors and talk about it, uh, from 394 00:47:54,720 --> 00:48:00,640 the incoming, uh, members, uh, of the new administration. So, uh, I'm fully supportive 395 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:06,960 of that if they decide to do so. Because I'd like to go back to my day job. I'd like to go back to my day 396 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:13,120 job. You know, um, you know, that my, my, my day job is cancer research. If there's nothing here, 397 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:21,600 I'm pretty good at my job. Let me get back to it. Professor, I appreciate you are a top level 398 00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:27,440 international scientist and you understandably will be skeptical and guarded in what you're prepared 399 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,640 to say. But I've interviewed you previously, and you've been very forthcoming about your belief 400 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:38,160 that or your knowledge that there is indeed a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet. 401 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:45,760 About here though, from Jake Barber and his colleagues is on another level entirely for the 402 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:55,360 first time, first hand witnesses to what we say is a retrieval program involving a non-human intelligence 403 00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:02,480 technology. Tell me what you think about the credibility of these witnesses and what are 404 00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:08,560 your impressions about the whole idea of a non-human intelligence engaging with this planet? 405 00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:15,680 We still are in a situation where the military, the Pentagon is flatly asserting that there is 406 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:21,040 no evidence of any kind of extraterrestrial intelligence engaging with this planet. 407 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:28,480 So everybody that I've interacted with around this particular incident has been, 408 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:33,920 they're either the best actors in the world and are all deserving of an Oscar next year, 409 00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:40,960 or what they're telling me is the truth. I'm a good read of body language and personalities. 410 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:48,720 And what I saw, the way in which they acted, they didn't just act as people as a part of the play. 411 00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:56,240 They acted in a way that showed that they'd done this before. And so that told me that they knew what 412 00:49:56,240 --> 00:50:01,120 they were doing. They weren't doing this for the first time. You know, they don't bring a Stanford 413 00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:12,160 professor to a secure site to witness this. So that that, you know, there wasn't all of this effort put 414 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:20,640 into it just for me. I was just there for observation. There's no reason to expect that anything 415 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:29,840 that they were doing was a lie or put on for show. It just lends further support to things that I've 416 00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:38,720 already said before, that the chance that all of this is by chance or is just a whole bunch of mistakes 417 00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:45,200 is diminishingly small. It's to the point now where it's up to the true skeptics to come forward 418 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:52,080 and say, what are the standards that you're going to require for there to be proof? Does an alien or 419 00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:56,160 an extraterrestrial or a non-human intelligence have to walk out on stage and shake your hands? 420 00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:03,120 Is that your standard of proof? Or is your standard of proof that of a scientist, which says, I see 421 00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:10,720 preliminary data here and something which is even more than preliminary data that says, hey, it's time 422 00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:18,000 to put together a public response and a public program that allows the public to know what the data 423 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:23,520 is rather than putting all the money into things that are going on clearly behind the scenes that you're 424 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:30,880 just going to basically black out when any reports are being provided? I think those days are over. 425 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:38,240 Can I get a definitive statement from you, Gary, on what you think you know about the existence of a 426 00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:45,040 non-human intelligence engaging with this planet? My personal experience, both with people and the 427 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:52,640 things that I've seen, is that there's something here. My problem is, again as a scientist, that's my set of 428 00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:59,200 anecdotes. I need to get it into a form that I can hand to another scientist who sits in the office 429 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:09,280 next to me and said, here's the data that you can use. There's so much data out there already that 430 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:16,000 it's how do I compile a minimum list so that I can get a colleague's attention for the five minutes 431 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,600 required to get them to say either it should be something that they follow up on or they can still 432 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:29,280 go back to their day job. I mean, you're trying to get me to say something that I just am not going 433 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:39,920 to go over that line because if I don't maintain a certain level of skepticism, I just lose the 434 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:48,880 credibility that I require for my scientific colleagues to feel that I'm a neutral observer. 435 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,320 I thank you for what you did give me, Professor. Thank you so much. 436 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:52,640 Yeah. 437 00:52:55,120 --> 00:53:03,120 Thanks for watching. Go to joinnn.com to find NewsNation on your television provider. And 438 00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:10,000 please don't forget to click that red subscribe button to ensure you get more of NewsNation's 439 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:20,240 unbiased and fact-driven news coverage.