1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:24,540
LegalizeFreedom.com

2
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,440
Why are we here?

3
00:00:28,140 --> 00:00:29,380
Where do we come from?

4
00:00:29,380 --> 00:00:30,760
Where are we going?

5
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,140
From the nature of reality to the future of humanity.

6
00:00:39,140 --> 00:00:41,480
Listen without limits.

7
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:44,300
Unchain your brain.

8
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:46,800
Change your thinking.

9
00:00:47,780 --> 00:00:48,780
Change your life.

10
00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:54,020
LegalizeFreedom.com

11
00:00:59,380 --> 00:01:11,900
Greetings and welcome once again to LegalizeFreedom.com

12
00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:17,780
I'm your host Greg Moffat and today we present the first of two sessions recorded at home with Anthony Peake,

13
00:01:18,460 --> 00:01:24,180
inspired by his latest book, Cheating the Ferryman, The Revolutionary Science of Life After Death.

14
00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:26,520
Is there life after death?

15
00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:34,060
This age-old question has plagued humankind from the moment we became self-aware, but do we now have enough evidence to answer it?

16
00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:39,600
In this mind-expanding book, Peake reveals an extraordinary model of life after death,

17
00:01:40,020 --> 00:01:46,720
one that brings together ideas from ancient philosophy, neuroscience, quantum physics and consciousness studies,

18
00:01:47,060 --> 00:01:52,460
and manages to explain a number of seemingly mysterious experiences such as precognition,

19
00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:58,380
déjà vu, synchronicity, near-death experiences and out-of-body experiences.

20
00:01:58,380 --> 00:02:04,500
The book is a much-awaited follow-up to Peake's internationally best-selling Is There Life After Death,

21
00:02:04,740 --> 00:02:06,740
which introduced his revolutionary model.

22
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:12,000
Since then he has amassed more evidence, using new studies by world-leading researchers,

23
00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,360
theories from the likes of Stephen Hawking, Carl Jung and Hugh Everett,

24
00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:21,420
together with testimonies of near-death experiences and precognitive experiences,

25
00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:24,480
which give everyday clues to our immortality.

26
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:29,240
Cheating the Ferryman presents an astounding model of survival after death

27
00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,560
that is supported by, rather than in conflict with,

28
00:02:32,900 --> 00:02:35,420
our present understanding of how the universe works.

29
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:45,420
Hello and welcome Anthony and thank you so much for joining us once again on legalizedfreedom.com

30
00:02:45,420 --> 00:02:49,960
Absolutely delighted to be chatting to you again Greg, we always have some fascinating discussions.

31
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,460
We do and it's been a while, I think it was the Hidden Universe,

32
00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,220
your last book that came out that we spoke about these matters.

33
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,240
It is indeed and in fact when I was looking at the information,

34
00:03:01,540 --> 00:03:04,940
I think I've appeared more times on your show than any other show I've done.

35
00:03:05,060 --> 00:03:08,700
You have, in fact you're one of the first, the podcast started back in 2012,

36
00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:13,140
in fact recently celebrated 10th anniversary on April 2022.

37
00:03:13,140 --> 00:03:16,440
And yeah, your book at the time, The Labyrinth of Time,

38
00:03:16,940 --> 00:03:20,720
was the, you know, absolutely one of the first shows in the first half dozen I believe.

39
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,180
So that's quite a remarkable track record.

40
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,160
And all those previous shows by the way will be linked up on the interview page today.

41
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:31,420
So if people, there's a bit of easy links for them to jump through

42
00:03:31,420 --> 00:03:34,520
and listen back to everything we've recorded over the years.

43
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,080
Today we're going to be talking about your brand new book,

44
00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:42,620
that's entitled Cheating the Ferryman, The Revolutionary Science of Life After Death.

45
00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,060
It's worth mentioning that not only are we kind of celebrating 10 years of you and I

46
00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:51,300
talking intermittently, but we're here at your home today.

47
00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:54,200
So it's the first time that we've actually done something like this face to face.

48
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,020
I know we've met before, but we've never actually had a discussion like this

49
00:03:57,620 --> 00:03:59,620
sitting across the same table.

50
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:00,520
So that's another first.

51
00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:06,760
It is indeed in your long journey today, and travelling back this evening as well.

52
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,800
But well worth it, because I think the dynamic works much better

53
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,160
when you have the opportunity face to face to really get into some deep

54
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:16,020
and interesting areas, which I'm sure we're going to.

55
00:04:16,260 --> 00:04:17,420
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

56
00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,440
Well, yeah, I know that modern technology allows us to converse with people

57
00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,160
all over the world, and that's very important.

58
00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:23,940
It's opened up so many opportunities.

59
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,800
You know, international travel especially wasn't possible, but it's nice to do.

60
00:04:28,940 --> 00:04:30,740
You get just a different energy face to face, I think.

61
00:04:30,780 --> 00:04:34,400
And this is why even in the internet age, I think conferences and social gatherings

62
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,180
are still important.

63
00:04:35,180 --> 00:04:39,120
And of course, as you and I agree, the situation with the archons and things,

64
00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,400
you've got to make sure that they're not going to be causing problems and issues,

65
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:43,780
which we've had in the past.

66
00:04:43,940 --> 00:04:46,680
Well, yeah, I wasn't going to mention it, because although this is a good idea,

67
00:04:46,740 --> 00:04:49,400
what we're doing today, it was inspired by the archonic influence.

68
00:04:49,620 --> 00:04:52,560
Basically, we couldn't get any of the technology, remote technology to work.

69
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:54,420
You know, so here we are.

70
00:04:54,420 --> 00:05:01,740
So, before we dive into today's discussion, for the unlikely events that any of the legalised

71
00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:05,680
freedom listeners are not familiar with your work, maybe you could just give us a potted

72
00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:06,000
bio.

73
00:05:06,340 --> 00:05:07,840
Well, a very, very quick biography then.

74
00:05:08,220 --> 00:05:15,800
Originally from Merseyside, and very, very proud scouser, very much a football fanatic,

75
00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:19,580
loved my Trammy Rovers and everything else, which is probably a weird thing.

76
00:05:19,580 --> 00:05:23,340
We've got the opportunity to support Everton and Liverpool, but I've always been a masochist,

77
00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:23,780
probably.

78
00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:31,900
Moved away from Wirral, where I used to live in 1973, to read Sociology and History at

79
00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:36,580
the University of Warwick, then subsequently did postgraduate at Lund School of Economics,

80
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:45,420
and spent my career as initially as an employee relations person working in various industries,

81
00:05:45,420 --> 00:05:46,780
which I particularly enjoyed.

82
00:05:46,780 --> 00:05:53,460
The cut and thrust of arguing across a table was something I enjoy, and then moved on to

83
00:05:53,460 --> 00:05:58,120
become a compensation and benefits specialist, working for various companies and organisations

84
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:05,040
across the UK and Europe, including working for companies like London, the National Gallery

85
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:11,080
in London, and also a fantastic contract at the All England Tennis Club, which was absolutely

86
00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:11,640
fascinating.

87
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:20,080
But I've always wanted to be a writer, ever since I was 12, 13 years of age, and I've

88
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:27,200
always been interested in the broader aspects of psychology, sociology, and greater areas

89
00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:32,240
of human experience, and particularly consciousness and the mystery of consciousness. And this was

90
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:33,940
the area I wanted to write books on.

91
00:06:33,940 --> 00:06:39,980
And in 1999, I wrote my first book, Is the Life After Death? The Extraordinary Science of

92
00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:47,260
What Happens When We Die? And six years later, that book was picked up by a publisher, Arcturus,

93
00:06:47,380 --> 00:06:52,740
and was published in 2006. And since then, as they say, everything else is the history,

94
00:06:52,940 --> 00:06:58,720
because I'm now in the position that that first book has sold around about 45,000, 50,000 copies,

95
00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,140
and my total book sales now with all the other books I've written is now probably approaching

96
00:07:03,140 --> 00:07:10,460
120,000. And that's just in English. My books are in every major European language and a number

97
00:07:10,460 --> 00:07:14,240
of minor ones as well, including recently, I'm delighted to say that two of my books have

98
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:20,800
come out in Greek, which is really exciting. But the new book, Cheating the Ferryman is really

99
00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:26,100
the culmination of all the other books. It's a drawing together of all the themes from my book

100
00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:31,600
on out of body experiences to my book on time perception, to my books on the egregorials

101
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:37,380
and the idea of entities. But this book pulls it all together, and brings together all the science

102
00:07:37,380 --> 00:07:42,200
and all the philosophy I've read, and all the information I've gleaned from all the contacts

103
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:47,000
I've made worldwide, including some really interesting academics who's doing some fantastic

104
00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:52,400
work in these areas. So I'm very proud of this new book. And I think it's very much I'm hoping

105
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,220
that this will be the book that will make my reputation, or not.

106
00:07:55,980 --> 00:08:01,700
Yeah, well, it's been pitched in some quarters as a sequel to Is There Life After Death, but

107
00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:06,780
it's more than that, really. It's just that's its most close correlate, I suppose, in the

108
00:08:06,780 --> 00:08:10,040
other books that you've written. But as you said, it's bringing so many different threads

109
00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:18,300
together. And what's remarkable about it, how it's science heavy, but again, in a way that the

110
00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:23,100
non-scientific, I think, minded, or people who just are not particularly well read in science will be

111
00:08:23,100 --> 00:08:30,620
able to grasp. So it introduces some very complex, intense, you know, scientific scenarios and scientific

112
00:08:30,620 --> 00:08:37,100
research, past, present, and, you know, points towards the future. But because of the philosophical

113
00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:43,100
content, I think, again, it brings a, it makes, it brings all of the science into our human

114
00:08:43,100 --> 00:08:47,360
experience, our lived experience. I think it's one of the problems in this area, of talking

115
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:53,720
about the nature of reality and what is consciousness and matching that up with the most cutting age

116
00:08:53,720 --> 00:09:00,360
science, is finding a middle ground to make a synthesis of these things, because there's philosophy,

117
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:07,160
science and religion, say, for example, the traditional ways of, of, of knowing, shall we say,

118
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:14,360
and too often have been set apart. But so much philosophy feeds it has fed historically into science,

119
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:19,480
and now so much of it has been borne out by science. So many of these ideas that cutting

120
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:26,920
edge science is bringing to light have philosophical underpinnings that were put there when we didn't

121
00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:34,120
really have the scientific language or the evidence of the research to put flesh on bones, as it were.

122
00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:41,000
So, and the, I'd finish by saying that really, page after page, point after point, everything that you've

123
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:48,040
brought together, it's all backing the evidence is backing up your essential cheating the frame and

124
00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,720
hypothesis. So it's, I really want to see how people are going to refute this.

125
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,760
So do I, and it's one of the things that I, I very much work upon the principle of the, the,

126
00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:09,080
the statement of an, in 1975, of an Italian skeptic called Marcello Truzzi. And Marcello Truzzi said,

127
00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:13,480
in effect, exceptional claims need exceptional proofs. And I know that people will know that

128
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:18,440
as being the Carl Sargon statement, but in fact, it was Marcello Truzzi that did it first and Sargon

129
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:24,040
became famous because of it. Because for me, that is the ultimate reasoning is that if you are going

130
00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,800
to be making extraordinary statements about the nature of reality and the interface between

131
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:34,200
consciousness and external reality, you have to really dig into the information you need to present

132
00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:40,200
the information. Now, one of the things that I really need to clarify here is people ask me regularly,

133
00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:45,720
do I believe in the cheating, the ferryman hypothesis? And we'll get into what that means

134
00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:54,280
in a second, but it's not a question of believing, um, in that I didn't, most writers in this field have

135
00:10:54,280 --> 00:11:00,600
a bee in their bonnet. They have a belief and then they back, back support it. They then go and research

136
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:06,040
information that will give them the support. Whereas it was quite the opposite with me with

137
00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:12,760
cheating the ferryman. Cheating the ferryman was a hypothesis I came upon because of what the science

138
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,680
was telling me. In other words, you know, there were certain things I was discovering about near

139
00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:21,320
death experiences, the neurological aspects of near death experiences that I started to think,

140
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,240
well, what does this generally mean? And I'd go off and I'd research something else.

141
00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:30,520
I've used the analogy many times. I felt like I was Frederick Schliemann, um, excavating Troy.

142
00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,880
I was digging, digging and digging. And as I dug, I found different levels and different links,

143
00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:41,400
and I just followed my nose as to which direction to go. And at the end of it, I ended up with the

144
00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:49,480
cheating the ferryman hypothesis back in 2006. However, I felt at that stage, my knowledge of science,

145
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:55,000
although it was okay, it wasn't as in depth as I would like it to be. And this book is my approach

146
00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:01,880
of going back. And as you say, you know, it's not a sequel to it's, it's a fleshing out. There's a

147
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:08,200
framework, which is in is their life after death, but the fleshed out full body is the new book is

148
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:13,240
their life after is cheating the ferryman. Yes. And of course, you're saying that in the past,

149
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:18,920
maybe your scientific knowledge wasn't what it could be, you know, speaking as a non scientist,

150
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,720
why would it be? I'm not a scientist either. And but that's something again, I was when I mentioned

151
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:31,000
that the comment about seeing who would seek to refute, you know, your latest work, you have been,

152
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,360
you know, doing something in the interim, you can see this through subsequent books. But this is so

153
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:42,360
detailed scientifically. And yet, as I mentioned, I think it's going to be very palatable for the

154
00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:47,960
non scientific audience. And I think that you've quite rightly as anybody would putting forward

155
00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,120
a hypothesis, if someone said, well, what about this? And what about this? And even in the, you know,

156
00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:57,000
in the most constructive way, I think that's you've been doing in this one saying, okay, let's,

157
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:04,680
okay, that isn't fully expanded that concept, that idea, let's do that now, you know, because those who've

158
00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:10,840
been interested in these concepts, but they've been struggling to accept it, you know, because our society in

159
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:16,040
the West is so scientifically minded, and so rationalist, and so materialist, you've had to

160
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:22,760
then say, okay, well, let's forget about leaps of the imagination, then have this as your point by

161
00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:31,240
point by point. And, and also, I like the fact that you've so many, so much material from scientists who

162
00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:36,920
are considered mainstream as well, that's the other thing. Because of course, Einstein and the others who

163
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:43,160
came after him, and all the developments in quantum theory, these eminent people, you know, Einstein's

164
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,080
that household name, but many of these other people who came after eminent people, but still,

165
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:53,400
they managed to get marginalized when the implications of their research were explored.

166
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:59,160
So I think that, I think you were like a lot of non-scientists very much excited by the implications,

167
00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,440
and other people would get excited, but then people would try and say, well, where's the evidence?

168
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,200
And so that's what you've done, and say, well, actually, you know what, I wasn't exploring these

169
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:13,320
implications just off the top of my head. These ideas come from somewhere, you know, and more than

170
00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,880
ever, we have, here's a long history of, you know, 100 years of science, and more than ever,

171
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:21,720
whether it's the work at CERN, or whatever it happens to be, or whatever NASA are doing,

172
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:27,480
all of these things are touching on in some way, this idea that there's more to reality than five

173
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,920
senses and three dimensions, you know. Well, it's interesting, isn't it? A lot of the famous

174
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:36,440
scientists that I quote in the book, or less known in terms of the general public. But for instance,

175
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:45,800
it's a little known fact that the great Austrian scientist, Wolfgang Pauli, who was the guy that

176
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:51,640
came up with Pauli's exclusion principle, which is a central part of quantum mechanics, towards,

177
00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,520
he had a whole series of extraordinary events take place in his life and synchronicities,

178
00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:03,000
where he became so intrigued by synchronicities, and a particular number, which I think was 319,

179
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,160
I think, I may be wrong on that quotation, but there was a particular number he was fascinated in.

180
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:15,240
And he worked then with, with, with, with Carl Gustav Jung on synchronicity and wrote a book with

181
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:21,960
him. Now, the thing is with Pauli, you know, he this preoccupation with this number, he discovered at the

182
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:26,840
end of his life exactly what the significance of the number was. And when he was dying, it was the

183
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:33,000
room he was in, in the sanatorium where he died. Now, to me, that is extraordinary. You know, this is

184
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,440
a great brain. And of course, the most modern scientists are in denial that people like Wolfgang

185
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:46,760
Pauli, people like Max Planck, Einstein himself, were in effect, looking at the philosophical implications

186
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,800
of the discoveries they were making. And you never hear that. You're all you ever hear my Erwin

187
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:57,960
Schrodinger wrote an incredible book called What is Life, which people aren't aware of where he became

188
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:04,520
really intrigued by the, the Vedantist elements of a lot of the work he was doing. So a lot of these

189
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:10,120
guys, when they're, when they work so closely into quantum mechanics and quantum physics, they become

190
00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:16,120
philosophers, and they start to come to a similar viewpoint to what you and I have, you know, that there is

191
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:23,320
far more to this reality than is dreamt of in your in your philosophy, Horatio, you know, and it is

192
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:29,640
it is extraordinary, the more you dig into it, and the more your brain gets blown by the discoveries

193
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:35,240
they're making at the moment, it's a very exciting period of time. Yeah, they do say that, you know,

194
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:42,680
whether you pursue a spiritual path or a scientific path, but it all kind of ends up in a mystery, really,

195
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:47,960
at the end of the, you know, science is all about, you know, having the final answer. But there isn't

196
00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:54,040
one, there can't be one, in my opinion, in this world, you know, the sort of the aforementioned

197
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,600
3D, five sense reality that you and I are sharing now. What does the final answer look like? Anyway,

198
00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:03,240
that's just, that's a materialistic kind of... Well, it's the great questions, isn't it? There's a line,

199
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,160
I think it was a philosopher that came up with it, but it was an Australian band, because we're both

200
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,560
into music, it was an Australian band called the Little River Band, who had a song, and one of the

201
00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,320
lyrics is, you know, there's many paths up the mountain, but the view from the top is still the

202
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:23,640
same. And it's so true, you know, we're all, we're all thrown in the book, I discuss the work of a lot

203
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:30,440
of philosophers, Martin Heidegger is one of the philosophers I focus in on. And Heidegger has this

204
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:36,840
concept of thrownness. And what he means by this is that we're thrown into this life, we don't choose

205
00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:42,920
to be born, we just find ourselves here. And we are in total confusion, because we're trying to make

206
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:50,840
sense of this sensory world that's been imposed upon us. And we have only 70, 80 years, if we're lucky,

207
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:58,280
to try and come to terms with the mystery of the fact that I am a sentience that didn't exist for

208
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:03,800
billions of years. I'm a sentient something perceiving something for an infinitesimally

209
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:09,400
relative small amount of time, and will technically, according to the modern materials reductionist

210
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:18,280
model, disappear and not exist again, for billions of years. And that just, you know, it just seems so

211
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:26,040
irrational. Now to argue that the universe is mindless, and there's no point to it. Well, for instance,

212
00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:32,840
think about the idea, if we destroy ourselves in nuclear war, and planet Earth is the only planet

213
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:40,520
in all the 10s of billions of galaxies around us, and we just wipe out life, and sentience and

214
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:46,040
consciousness, and that's it, it will never happen again. That's awe inspiring. And the photographs

215
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:51,960
coming from the James Webb telescope at the moment are incredible. And it's making you realise that this,

216
00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:59,400
we are at the first steps of even beginning to understand what is going on. But we in our hubris,

217
00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:06,680
and our feeling that our sciences is wonderful, is we feel we understand it. And I'm reminded here,

218
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:14,760
and in my books, I've quoted this, in I think it was 1895. Mitchelson, the Mitchelson-Morley experiment was

219
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:20,280
opening up a new section of the University of Chicago, one of the science rooms in there. And

220
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:25,800
he made this speech, and he pointed out that, you know, we understand virtually everything there is to

221
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:31,400
know about science, we know it all, our model works. And it's incredible. And he said, there's only two or

222
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:37,720
three dark clouds, that are the things that we have, once we know them, we'll know everything. And of

223
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:45,640
course, what then happened was the dark clouds were the, the electromagnetic catastrophe, the ultraviolet

224
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:51,800
catastrophe, which was to do with how waves function, and how things get hot and keep heat,

225
00:19:51,800 --> 00:20:00,520
and they didn't understand how that worked. And then in December 1900, Max Planck stood up at Berlin,

226
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:06,520
and came up with his theory of quantum. And suddenly, we found that energy not being continual came in little

227
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:11,480
chunks or quanta. And suddenly, everything changed. Suddenly, the whole model had changed.

228
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:17,480
Then Einstein in his, his Annus Mirabilis, where he did three papers, he explained something called the

229
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:23,320
photoelectric effect. All these things without going into technical detail completely changed the science

230
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,880
that Mitchelson was talking about. And we had a whole new world. But the problem is that the vast

231
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:35,320
majority of people, and probably the vast majority of people listening to this podcast, are stuck in the

232
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:42,840
science of the 1890s. You know, they're 125 years out of date. And that's what they think the world is

233
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,600
made of. And it's not. And that's why I write what I do.

234
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:53,640
Yeah, it was that laughable. But looking back now, that quote from Lord Kelvin, or you know, the expression

235
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,440
of belief from Lord Kelvin about, you know, we're almost there in terms of explaining life to the

236
00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,680
universe and everything, just a few, we basically got all of me in facts, just a bit of tidying up to

237
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:07,400
do, and it just looks so ludicrous. Now, your comment, I like the way you framed it about our,

238
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,400
our lifespan, the human lifespan, as it appears to be to us. And that short number, you know,

239
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,240
it's three score years and 10. And as mentioned in the Bible, it's really not much more than that,

240
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,400
even though, in fact, some evidence that human life spans are decreasing your lifestyles. But

241
00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:27,160
one thing that I always hope that people will come away from in certain of the legalized freedom

242
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:33,480
shows is a sense of urgency. I don't mean panic, but a sense of urgency about what is it that I want

243
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,760
to do while I'm here? Yeah. And is it shopping and watching television? If that genuine is,

244
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,480
knock yourself out. But you know, we have no more opportunities than ever to like,

245
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,880
waste our lives, really. It depends on how you view that word. And we now have something here

246
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:52,920
in the UK called Gogglebox, which is a television program that you watch. And the program consists

247
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,960
of people watching television. And then some of those shows that they're probably the shows

248
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,640
they're watching sometimes involve people watching television. So you know, it's like one of those

249
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:08,760
infinite regrets, which is absolutely preposterous. But to turn to talk a little bit about concepts of,

250
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:13,160
you know, life after death, you know, life before life, whatever it happens to be, just the idea that

251
00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,640
there's something before what you and I are experiencing now and something after, whatever

252
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,040
that happens to be. I realize when I say before and after I'm introducing time into the equation,

253
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:29,160
but let's just stick with that for now. There's kind of four scenarios that you set out early in the book,

254
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,840
in terms of like, what happens when we die. And really, the first three are certainly the conventional

255
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,800
ideas about what people tend to believe, usually one of them about what happens. And then you

256
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:47,720
introduce, of course, another possibility, which some people seems, you know, just out there and

257
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:53,720
sounds, you know, in terms of religious in a different way, that the actual religious explanation

258
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:59,000
does to non-religious people are kind of the same works. You know, it's kind of, it satisfies

259
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,200
neither religious nor scientific people, it seems. But actually, what I think it represents is,

260
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:09,400
as I mentioned earlier, a synthesis. So are we able to just briefly, just for people who are

261
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,720
wondering, you know, just to give them a framework to hang all this?

262
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:18,520
Yeah, I think you've hit the nail on the head there, that it either alienates the religious

263
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:24,280
people and the believers and the scientists, in which case I end up being people throwing bricks

264
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:30,840
at me from both sides, or it's an amalgamation. That's always been my approach, is to try and find

265
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:36,600
a synthesis whereby spiritual beliefs and scientific beliefs can come together. Because, you know, if the

266
00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:41,960
universe is far more complex, the spiritual aspect is just an aspect that we don't fully understand.

267
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,800
But for me, what I've always been fascinated by, and what Cheating the Ferryman does for me,

268
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,440
and again, do I believe it's true? I don't know. I genuinely don't know. But it resonates for me,

269
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:58,760
because it is reinforced by my own life experiences, and indeed, the experiences of a lot of other people.

270
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,320
And basically, what Cheating the Ferryman proposes, and the science of which is what is the

271
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:09,880
main theme of the book, is that at the point of death, at the point of death, not when you are dead,

272
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:15,480
and this is an important point, this all happens before you die, is that something peculiar happens

273
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:21,320
in the brain. Now, this could be facilitated by the release of endogenous, that is internally

274
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:27,160
generated dimethyltryptamine. It could be brought about by what's known as the glutamate flood,

275
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:32,600
there could be various other things. But what tends to happen is that, and we know this from near-death

276
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,800
experience reports, there are something called the grace and traits, which are, I think,

277
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:43,240
eight or nine typologies that medical people use when somebody reports a near-death experience.

278
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:48,280
So it includes these, and one of them is the concept of a feeling that you're falling out of time.

279
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:54,760
The time is suddenly spreading and is getting wider and greater, right? And of course, many of you will

280
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:59,080
have had that experience where you've had an accident, you've been in a car crash, you've been given bad news,

281
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,200
or you're in an altered state of consciousness state, but suddenly you realise that time is not

282
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:09,000
what it seems, it's elastic and it can stretch. And of course, that is supported by the science,

283
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:13,640
because we know that time and space are just elements of the same thing, which is what Einstein

284
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:19,800
discovered in the early part of the 20th century. So there's nothing extreme or strange I'm talking

285
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:25,320
about here. And you all know from your experiences that this happens. So imagine the scenario, you start to die,

286
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:31,960
but your perception of time changes. So if somebody's watching you die, and they're in normal time,

287
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,080
and you're outside of time, if you quickly think about it, it means that very, very quickly,

288
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:43,480
you are existing in totally different worldviews. You know, if your seconds are taking hours to pass by,

289
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:49,560
but the person watching you die, their second takes a second, they will see you die. But if you're,

290
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,080
if you apply Zeno's paradox, the idea that every, every piece of time, the next second is twice as

291
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,080
long as the second before, you'll quickly realise that you'll never get to the point of death.

292
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:05,160
So you're living in smaller and smaller pieces of time. Now, the question then has to be as to what,

293
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,000
what are you going to do with all this time? Now, one of the other characteristics of near

294
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,640
death experience is something called the panoramic life review. Now, this has again been reported

295
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:18,680
throughout history, that people turn round, when they feel they're going to die, or they're in a

296
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:25,000
situation they're dying. And for instance, the work of Albert Heim, who was Einstein's maths teacher,

297
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,920
he was an alpine climber, and he on two or three occasions had actually fallen, and thought he was

298
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:35,480
going to die. And on each occasion, he had what he called a panoramic life review, where he was

299
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:44,280
catapulted back into his past, and started starting living an experience from his past in real time,

300
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:51,000
as far as he was concerned, in the split second, he was falling. People have reported subsequently,

301
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:55,560
and again, I have in the book, lots of examples of this, where they literally live their whole life,

302
00:26:55,560 --> 00:27:03,880
live a whole life in that split second. Now, what is going on here? What if that in a near death

303
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:09,160
experience is qualitatively different to what happens in a real death experience? Because I'd

304
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,800
argue that what is taking place there is it's a pre run, the brain thinks you're going to die.

305
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:22,360
So it starts the prior to death events of your past life review, but it realizes you're not going to

306
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:27,640
die. So metaphorically fast forwards, because that's what people say my life flashed before my eyes.

307
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:32,680
Now, again, in the book, which I didn't do in cheating in the first book, is that I've got the

308
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:38,280
science of this. There's been recent discoveries made in terms of diet people who are dying that

309
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:44,440
was happened a few months ago, where a guy accidentally died while he was being involved

310
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:51,320
in an fMRI scan. And what did they find? At the point he was dying, suddenly his brain activity went

311
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:59,000
huge, massive, the brain lit up everywhere. That was him starting his past life review. They found it with

312
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:07,080
rats. There are lots of evidence now for this. So you start dying, the time pass out. And what you do is

313
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:13,640
then you're catapulted back to the start of your life, you'll be born again, literally. And you start

314
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:23,560
to relive your life again, in a three dimensional surround sound, virtual reality version of your life,

315
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:29,000
a recording of your life, if you want. Now, what I then argue is at the point of death,

316
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,640
consciousness splits into two, it splits into what I call the Edelon and the Damon.

317
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:40,120
The Edelon is the everyday consciousness, we are Edelons, we live within the near time. But the Damon

318
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:47,320
is a part of you, that is the real you, the you that lives outside of time lives in orthogonal time.

319
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,840
And when you first die on your very first instance of going through the dying process, the Damon

320
00:28:52,840 --> 00:29:00,280
suddenly realizes it exists, it's never known itself as a dual being before. And it starts to relive your

321
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,800
life looking at it through your eyes, it can't control you, it can't control your movements,

322
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:11,960
particularly, which if you think about it is exactly the same as a third person role playing game.

323
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,080
You switch on the game, you start and on screen, there's a little sprite, I use always the analogy

324
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:23,080
of Lara Croft. Lara Croft, and she runs down a corridor, goes into a room, gets eaten by a monster,

325
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:29,000
she's dead. The game player, however, is not dead, the game player is able to start the game again,

326
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:34,440
with a new life, a new Lara Croft, a new Edelon. And I believe this is what happens in life.

327
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:42,040
What happens is that we literally live this life over and over again, but important,

328
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:49,800
not the same life. Remember in the movie Groundhog Day, Connors does not live the same day every day,

329
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:55,800
every day is different for him. Because he changes how the day goes from the memories he's had of

330
00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:00,520
previous days. And every time he lives the life, he's like a Damon that's living in the in a

331
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:06,840
needle on his body. And I argue this is what happens, we live our lives in this time after

332
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:13,080
time scenario, where all the avenues are open for all the alternatives for all the decisions.

333
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:19,160
But what is of great importance here is, also, you are affected by all the decisions made by your

334
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:25,080
ancestors. Your parents Greg could have decided to emigrate to Canada, you'd have been a different

335
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:30,360
Greg growing up in Edmonton. I could have been brought up in Tasmania. My parents were about

336
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,280
to go to Tasmania, my grandmother was ill, they didn't go. But there'll be a version of me or a

337
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:40,040
life out there that does that. Now people will turn around and say, well, where's the science of this?

338
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:46,920
And I always say, just read Stephen Hawking's last paper. It was a paper he wrote with a guy called

339
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:52,200
Thomas Hertog of CERN. And it's called the top down hypothesis of quantum physics. And in this,

340
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:57,320
Stephen Hawking, not some new age wacko, turned around and said at the first moments of the Big

341
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:05,960
Bang, everything that can ever happen is encoded within the universal field of information. So in

342
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,880
which case, the universe is much bigger than we can ever imagine, it can accommodate all scenarios.

343
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:18,120
But if the universe exists, and the Big Bang, and we go back, we have another Big Bang and another Big

344
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:24,440
Bang. This makes sense. We live within an infinity. So within an infinity, there can be an infinity of

345
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:30,440
decisions and paths that can be followed. And in the book, what I do is attempt to do a lot of the

346
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:34,920
science that supports this hypothesis. And believe me, it works.

347
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:40,760
Yeah, listeners are just going to have to get the book, because although you've given quite detailed

348
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:46,520
sketch there, it really is only just that there is so much to get into, but the supporting evidence is

349
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:54,040
there. You mentioned Groundhog Day, but do you think that if some of what you're setting out

350
00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:01,320
proves to be the case, that obviously, it would be difficult to knowingly live the same life or even

351
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,040
a different life as the same person again, because that would be, I know there's a story that you

352
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,000
relate about someone, I don't know if it's a fictional accountant.

353
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,080
The life of Ivan Asokin by Peter Ospensky.

354
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:15,320
Yeah, you know, someone given a second chance to maybe live better and ends up making the same

355
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:21,880
mistakes. I've often thought about this, not that I don't think life's too short for regrets, but I've

356
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:27,240
often thought, especially in terms of some of the scenarios that you lay out when I discovered these

357
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:33,000
ideas, I thought, what would it be like to simply find yourself being 20 again? But finding yourself in the

358
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:39,080
same place with the same people that you were, knowing what had happened, knowing what your future

359
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,840
could be, saying, well, I took these steps, I took these actions, that the following things happened.

360
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,280
I'm back here again. First of all, the whole thing would be such a mindfuck. How on earth would you cope

361
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:53,240
with dealing with that? But let's just say you thought, whoa, now what's going on here? I'll say, I'm back at

362
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:59,880
university. Let's worry about what's going on later. Oh, I know this, I know that. You know, 10 years from now,

363
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:04,200
that happened, that wasn't good. 15 years from now, that happened, that was great. And then,

364
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:10,280
but depending on the nature of reality and how that works, you know, even if you were knowingly

365
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,600
living that life, what other factors might come into play? I wonder, you know, because I don't know

366
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:23,160
in your scenario, whether there is room for that. I know I'm postulating something that apparently

367
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:29,160
doesn't happen. We don't knowingly relive these things. But do you think that those possibilities,

368
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,800
the possibility that that is happening ever leaks in somehow? I'm thinking about, for me,

369
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:40,680
deja vu has always felt to me like, not this life. It's felt like it's coming from somewhere else,

370
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:47,000
if you follow. It's not like going to a location and thinking, wow, this is familiar. And then

371
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,640
somebody said, do you remember you came here as a boy? And you go, ah, maybe that's why I remember it.

372
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:57,240
The powerful deja vus I have, not very common, but when they do happen, they really just stop me in my

373
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,480
tracks. And they feel like it from somewhere else. They don't feel like it's from this life.

374
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:07,320
So I don't know if you feel that this realization can leak into our reality.

375
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:13,320
Totally. In one of my previous books, Opening the Doors of Perception, this is exactly the theme

376
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,520
I pursue. I mean, one of the things, again, I need to stress is that really to get the full picture

377
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,560
and the full power of the Cheating the Ferryman hypothesis, you really need to read all my books.

378
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:27,960
Because each book, like as we were talking earlier on, before we started this conversation,

379
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:34,040
was about my book, The Labyrinth of Time. And of course, that discusses about time in detail.

380
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:41,560
And all my books touch upon various aspects of this. Now, I find it intriguing, you mention about

381
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:49,160
the idea of knowing what was going to happen next. Because a few years ago, I chatted with Danny Rubin,

382
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:54,120
who was the guy that wrote Groundhog Day. And Danny explained to me how he came up with the idea of

383
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:59,880
Groundhog Day. And him and his girlfriend were watching a movie. And he thought, isn't it interesting

384
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,040
that the actors know what's about to happen next. And from then, he spun on and he thought, well,

385
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:09,720
what would you do if you knew what was going to happen next? Well, you'd manipulate the environment

386
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:15,000
to get what you want. And of course, that's what Connors does. You know, he tries to bed the girl,

387
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,320
he teaches himself foreign languages, he does all these things, all initially just to bed the girl,

388
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,840
really, doesn't he? And then he realizes this is not what he wants. So he's running around the town

389
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,640
trying to save people. So it's very much a development over multiple lives of you becoming

390
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:33,160
a better person. But going back to the idea of what would you do if you knew? Well, this is the

391
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:40,440
interesting, this is the interesting point of view that is taken by Peter Ospensky in his book,

392
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:46,680
The Life of Ivan, The Strange Life of Ivan Asokin. And he argues that a young man gets the opportunity

393
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:51,800
of going back and living the last 10 years of his life, because he's just lost his girlfriend. And he

394
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:57,000
wants to make sure that this time around, he doesn't lose her. So he goes back, having known what he did

395
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:03,800
last time. And as he said, what he does, he makes the same mistakes. Now what Ospensky considered these

396
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,480
people, he called them bite people, B-Y-T. And there are people that seem to cannot break out

397
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:16,600
of the same life, however much they know, and however much their knowledge is. But to me,

398
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:22,520
it's more subtle than that. It's the daemon and the daemon's ability to communicate with you while

399
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:28,200
you're in the simulation, or what I call the instantation. Because I argue that everything that

400
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:34,360
we're living within is is holographic reproduction. It's holographically based. And again, I do the

401
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:40,360
science in the book of holography, and we can come into that later if we wish. But so the idea is the

402
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:46,840
daemon tries to communicate with you. And it depends on how your channels of communication are open as to

403
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:51,560
how effective your daemon can be. Because the daemon obviously knows what it wants to do with your life

404
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:57,560
from all the memories it's had. But it's how it talks to you. Can it speak to you in dreams? Can it can it

405
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:04,760
speak to you in precognitions? Can it message you by moving your body? Because I have evidence that the

406
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:09,640
daemon, which is tends to be located in the non dominant hemisphere, if you're right handed,

407
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,960
the daemon can sometimes move your left hand to do things to make you do actions. And I argue that

408
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,360
most neurotypicals are doors of perception or communication channels with the daemon are closed.

409
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:26,760
So the daemon, however much it shouts at you, it can't make you do things. It can only try and give you

410
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,320
inklings and nuances, you know, you meet somebody and you think something not right about this person.

411
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,680
If your doors of perception are slightly more open, as they are with me with my with my classic

412
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:42,200
migraine, then the daemon can can talk to you in a little bit more, it can communicate more,

413
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,840
it can give you precognitions, it can do these things. Then when you move further along, what I call

414
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:52,040
the Huxleyan Spectrum, you move into temporal lobe epilepsy, then the doors of the perception are

415
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:57,160
a door's perception is sufficiently open to allow the communication channels to open with the daemon.

416
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:03,080
That concludes part one of our interview. Part two will be available soon in the subscribers area

417
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:09,080
at LegalizeFreedom.com