1 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,160 All right, tonight we've got Dean Raiden, PhD with us. 2 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,179 He's the chief scientist at ionsnoetic.org, 3 00:00:25,179 --> 00:00:29,500 and his latest book, Real Magic, Ancient Wisdom, Modern Science, 4 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:36,159 Dean's been studying SI research for decades, 5 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:37,659 and it's great to have you on. 6 00:00:37,659 --> 00:00:39,140 Dean, thanks for joining us. 7 00:00:39,140 --> 00:00:40,479 And to be here. 8 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,840 Yeah. We've been following your work on and off for years, 9 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,119 and it's finally good to finally chat with you. 10 00:00:47,119 --> 00:00:49,799 I read your book there, Real Magic, it was fantastic. 11 00:00:49,799 --> 00:00:53,899 It's really interesting to see somebody who's done so much research into 12 00:01:00,340 --> 00:01:04,739 But I figured before we get into that thing, 13 00:01:04,739 --> 00:01:08,340 I was wondering if we should start with some of the stuff you're doing at ions there. 14 00:01:08,340 --> 00:01:12,700 I was reading your recent or some of your experiments, 15 00:01:12,700 --> 00:01:14,620 and the science that you guys are doing there, 16 00:01:14,620 --> 00:01:17,060 and it seems very, very leading edge, 17 00:01:17,060 --> 00:01:21,420 noetic signature stuff, lucid dreams, channeling research. 18 00:01:26,219 --> 00:01:29,620 I think what's the most important research out there now is to start looking at 19 00:01:29,620 --> 00:01:31,640 some of this stuff seriously. 20 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:37,900 Yeah. So our research tends to reflect the interests of the people on the team. 21 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:46,700 So we have a team of multi-disciplinary for the first thing and quite experienced, 22 00:01:53,420 --> 00:01:57,579 So my own interests are partially, 23 00:01:57,579 --> 00:01:59,739 well actually all of our interests overlap. 24 00:01:59,739 --> 00:02:04,579 But what I tend to focus on is a study we're just finishing up now that 25 00:02:04,579 --> 00:02:08,620 involved looking at mind-matter interaction. 26 00:02:08,620 --> 00:02:13,939 But the kinds of studies we do are sometimes called psychokinetic, 27 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:19,659 When you look at the history of that, 28 00:02:19,659 --> 00:02:21,300 there's huge numbers, 29 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:25,460 probably two dozen different kinds of experiments that people have done. 30 00:02:25,460 --> 00:02:31,020 Where the target of the mental influence is everything from photons, 31 00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:33,659 to cells in vitro, 32 00:02:33,659 --> 00:02:36,539 to animal behavior, to human behavior, 33 00:02:36,539 --> 00:02:39,620 human physiology, huge range. 34 00:02:39,620 --> 00:02:43,259 So I've done lots of those kinds of experiments. 35 00:02:46,979 --> 00:02:50,259 you can get the sense that something is happening. 36 00:02:50,259 --> 00:02:53,259 Mind is influencing some aspect of the external world. 37 00:02:53,259 --> 00:02:57,020 But the very next thing that most people then ask is, well, how does that work? 38 00:02:57,020 --> 00:03:01,580 Well, the truth is we don't know how it works. 39 00:03:01,580 --> 00:03:08,099 You can start diving into different philosophical models of reality to give yo... 40 00:03:08,099 --> 00:03:10,979 That's what I talked about in my book Real Magic. 41 00:03:13,180 --> 00:03:18,580 the reason why all these things work is because everything emerges out of 42 00:03:18,580 --> 00:03:21,620 It's what a philosopher would call idealism. 43 00:03:21,620 --> 00:03:23,139 That may be true. 44 00:03:23,139 --> 00:03:25,340 It's possible in which case if that is true, 45 00:03:25,340 --> 00:03:27,740 then we have consciousness and we should have 46 00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:32,219 some creative ability to make the world the way that we want it to work. 47 00:03:32,219 --> 00:03:34,979 But there's another possibility. 48 00:03:34,979 --> 00:03:39,740 The other possibility is when you look at the history of science, 49 00:03:43,099 --> 00:03:48,060 everybody believed that everything was being controlled or operated by spirits. 50 00:03:48,060 --> 00:03:53,419 Everything was supernatural because they didn't have explanations for anything else. 51 00:03:53,419 --> 00:03:59,020 Well, it may be true here as well that there are aspects of the mind that are related in 52 00:03:59,020 --> 00:04:05,860 some way to our best physical explanations at this point, which is quantum mechanics. 53 00:04:05,860 --> 00:04:09,340 Quantum mechanics does not explain these phenomena, 54 00:04:14,659 --> 00:04:19,500 you see that the arrow that it's pointing is actually pointing directly, 55 00:04:19,500 --> 00:04:22,939 I think, at these phenomena. 56 00:04:22,939 --> 00:04:29,579 It's still not well understood about the fundamentals of quantum mechanics in terms... 57 00:04:29,579 --> 00:04:34,740 But one of the reasons why I've been moving towards targets for 58 00:04:39,819 --> 00:04:45,379 that groups of photons behave or more recently entangled photons is because 59 00:04:45,379 --> 00:04:51,899 it allows us to probe into quantum mechanics and see whether or not the mind is actuall... 60 00:04:51,899 --> 00:04:57,259 So that's the direction of research that I've been paying most attention to. 61 00:04:57,259 --> 00:04:58,660 >> Oh, that's super interesting. 62 00:04:58,660 --> 00:05:02,500 Have you found anything out with that yet so far? 63 00:05:07,259 --> 00:05:10,420 what used to be called the collapse of the wave function. 64 00:05:10,420 --> 00:05:15,699 And most recently, it looks like the mind plays a role in terms of the degree to which 65 00:05:15,699 --> 00:05:23,860 entanglement persists, or you might say the fidelity of entanglement. 66 00:05:23,860 --> 00:05:27,540 So entanglement is not an all or one phenomenon. 67 00:05:27,540 --> 00:05:31,180 It's there's a spectrum of entanglement strength. 68 00:05:35,860 --> 00:05:39,379 entanglement, which is really interesting because any kind of 69 00:05:39,379 --> 00:05:42,540 psychokinetic effect is dealing with non-local mind, right? 70 00:05:42,540 --> 00:05:46,019 It's not your mind and your body, it's your mind and something else over there. 71 00:05:46,019 --> 00:05:50,860 And entangled photons are in non-local form of matter or energy. 72 00:05:50,860 --> 00:05:56,139 So this is the first time that we've done an experiment looking at non-local mind 73 00:05:56,139 --> 00:05:58,579 interacting with non-local matter. 74 00:06:01,420 --> 00:06:05,779 So the real reason for doing that experiment is a little bit more obscure in the sense 75 00:06:05,779 --> 00:06:10,899 that what we're looking at is something called a cyrelsin bound, 76 00:06:10,899 --> 00:06:15,459 named after this Russian mathematician called Boris Cyrelsin. 77 00:06:15,459 --> 00:06:18,740 So he calculated, based on the mathematics of quantum mechanics, 78 00:06:18,740 --> 00:06:22,620 that there's an upper limit to entanglement. 79 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:24,100 It could only be so strong. 80 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:27,579 And beyond that, the mathematics won't allow it to be any stronger. 81 00:06:32,339 --> 00:06:35,500 could it push it above the cyrelsin bound? 82 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:40,100 Because if they can, it would essentially provide a proof of principle 83 00:06:40,100 --> 00:06:43,620 that quantum mechanics is not the end of physics. 84 00:06:43,620 --> 00:06:48,420 That whatever the next level is, it's going to require something about the mind. 85 00:06:48,420 --> 00:06:51,459 So that's why we did this experiment. 86 00:06:51,459 --> 00:06:54,100 We were not able to go beyond the cyrelsin bound. 87 00:06:58,899 --> 00:07:04,500 So that could also explain why you might be able to heal through lucid dreaming 88 00:07:04,500 --> 00:07:08,779 or the astral realm, that kind of thing, because of this entanglement? 89 00:07:08,779 --> 00:07:13,180 I mean, is that how-- because we had Robert Wagner on a few years ago. 90 00:07:13,180 --> 00:07:15,980 And we also had-- one of my all-time favorite episodes 91 00:07:15,980 --> 00:07:18,660 was this guy who's like an expert astral traveler. 92 00:07:18,660 --> 00:07:22,220 I mean, and he would do healing from that realm. 93 00:07:26,339 --> 00:07:29,259 and it felt like there was something there to it. 94 00:07:29,259 --> 00:07:34,620 But it's super hard for me to reach that sort of hypnagogic, like that state. 95 00:07:34,620 --> 00:07:37,060 I can't really do it very easy. 96 00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:39,939 But is that the same principle behind that? 97 00:07:39,939 --> 00:07:41,980 Well, all of this is getting down to the idea of, 98 00:07:41,980 --> 00:07:46,699 does your mind actually causally affect the world at large? 99 00:07:46,699 --> 00:07:49,699 It's about, is there something like a force-like effect 100 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:57,019 Does it actually change something at a distance? 101 00:07:57,019 --> 00:07:59,019 Well, it sort of looks like it does. 102 00:07:59,019 --> 00:08:01,100 I mean, that's kind of what these experiments are about. 103 00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:04,500 But it turns out that there's an alternative explanation, 104 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:07,060 which has to do with precognition. 105 00:08:07,060 --> 00:08:09,939 So it's purely perceptive. 106 00:08:09,939 --> 00:08:16,540 And it's very, very difficult to discriminate between a psychic perception effect 107 00:08:20,899 --> 00:08:26,180 So I actually think that what's going on is that 108 00:08:26,180 --> 00:08:29,379 when we influence something at a distance, 109 00:08:29,379 --> 00:08:31,699 part of it is through psychic perception. 110 00:08:31,699 --> 00:08:33,899 You perceive something at a distance. 111 00:08:33,899 --> 00:08:37,379 The perception alone may cause it to change, 112 00:08:37,379 --> 00:08:40,580 whatever that physical system is. 113 00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:44,059 But I also think that there's something coming back backwards in time. 114 00:08:47,299 --> 00:08:48,940 happening at the same time. 115 00:08:48,940 --> 00:08:51,620 And that's why things change. 116 00:08:51,620 --> 00:08:55,539 That sounds easy to say, but to then do an experiment that demonstrates it. 117 00:08:55,539 --> 00:08:59,379 I've done one such experiment like that, and then it does support this notion 118 00:08:59,379 --> 00:09:03,100 that there's some kind of push-flow going on in time. 119 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:06,419 But ultimately, we don't know yet. 120 00:09:06,419 --> 00:09:10,139 Like a magnet? 121 00:09:14,299 --> 00:09:19,460 And we're just stuck in the middle of that flying through space at a million miles an 122 00:09:19,460 --> 00:09:22,740 Well, so that would be a metaphorical way of thinking about it, yeah. 123 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:23,220 Excellent. 124 00:09:23,220 --> 00:09:27,740 So there are separate experiments that look at retroclosation. 125 00:09:27,740 --> 00:09:31,539 So if this is the idea that in the future, 126 00:09:31,539 --> 00:09:34,419 you can affect something that occurred in the past. 127 00:09:34,419 --> 00:09:35,539 And so that has been done. 128 00:09:35,539 --> 00:09:39,100 There's like two dozen experiments like that, and that works. 129 00:09:44,259 --> 00:09:48,100 influencing something that happened before is possible. 130 00:09:48,100 --> 00:09:51,139 So if you take that and you take experiments which are trying to influence 131 00:09:51,139 --> 00:09:54,860 something in the future, you can kind of see there's sort of a reverberation 132 00:09:54,860 --> 00:09:59,379 or a resonance between future and past that cause things to happen now. 133 00:09:59,379 --> 00:10:05,740 Darren, that reminds me about that, like the synchronicity chat. 134 00:10:09,259 --> 00:10:10,659 actually a precognitive thing? 135 00:10:10,659 --> 00:10:12,580 Or is it are you creating that future? 136 00:10:12,580 --> 00:10:15,139 Right, it's in maybe it's both. 137 00:10:15,139 --> 00:10:18,820 Yeah, so we spend a lot of time trying to figure out is it this or that? 138 00:10:18,820 --> 00:10:23,419 And sometimes when you reach an impasse where you really can't tell one or the other, 139 00:10:23,419 --> 00:10:25,379 the actual answer is it's not this or that. 140 00:10:25,379 --> 00:10:26,820 It's actually both of them. 141 00:10:26,820 --> 00:10:27,259 Wow. 142 00:10:27,259 --> 00:10:31,940 Well, I think the way that I like to think of it is it's like a really good 143 00:10:43,740 --> 00:10:47,500 Well, that's like the Eric Wargo sort of hypothesis. 144 00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:48,899 Right, yeah. 145 00:10:48,899 --> 00:10:51,580 Yeah, so I'm an empiricist. 146 00:10:51,580 --> 00:10:57,100 I listen to the theories that people have and try to come up with a way of testing it. 147 00:11:04,379 --> 00:11:06,100 forward and backwards in time. 148 00:11:06,100 --> 00:11:09,100 Well, there's some evidence suggesting that that is what's happening. 149 00:11:09,100 --> 00:11:13,500 What if, of course, the forward causal effects are easy to think about 150 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:15,659 because that's the way we experience the world. 151 00:11:15,659 --> 00:11:18,820 You usually don't think about things happening backwards in time. 152 00:11:18,820 --> 00:11:25,059 So it will make your brain hurt to start thinking about how you can affect 153 00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:31,700 And notice that I didn't say change the past. 154 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:33,899 That is, that's almost certainly not what happens. 155 00:11:33,899 --> 00:11:37,500 Once something happens in the past and it's registered, it's not going to change. 156 00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:41,580 I think, but influencing the past is quite different. 157 00:11:41,580 --> 00:11:45,860 So you can influence something which is not in a sense hardened, right? 158 00:11:45,860 --> 00:11:48,220 It's not already known by everybody. 159 00:11:48,220 --> 00:11:52,860 It's a gazillion things happening all the time that nobody's paying attention to. 160 00:11:58,100 --> 00:11:59,220 Oh, that's fascinating. 161 00:11:59,220 --> 00:12:02,740 So speaking about synchronicities, what do you, what would you consider your 162 00:12:02,740 --> 00:12:07,500 synchronicity then that that, I mean, it's probably the most mind blowing one 163 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,539 that I've heard of or that we've heard of. 164 00:12:09,539 --> 00:12:12,940 We've talked that we have people writing in their synchronicities to us all the 165 00:12:12,940 --> 00:12:15,019 time and we talk about them on the show all the time. 166 00:12:15,019 --> 00:12:18,139 But have you, have you tried to analyze yours? 167 00:12:18,139 --> 00:12:20,179 Was it sort of a manifestation thing? 168 00:12:20,179 --> 00:12:22,419 I mean, it's pretty mind blowing. 169 00:12:24,179 --> 00:12:24,899 Yeah. 170 00:12:24,899 --> 00:12:28,340 The one that I talk about in real magic. 171 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:29,740 Yeah. 172 00:12:29,740 --> 00:12:35,700 Well, yeah, that was a pretty strange synchronicity in retrospect. 173 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:39,860 And I'm a little surprised that it didn't freak out even more, right? 174 00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:43,940 I mean, because now when I think about it, when it happened, I say, what, 175 00:12:43,940 --> 00:12:45,899 what in the world was going on there? 176 00:12:45,899 --> 00:12:50,100 And I do remember some disorientation at the time, but it wasn't as severe as 177 00:12:53,700 --> 00:13:01,019 So the short story is we needed to find an office to create a non-profit 178 00:13:01,019 --> 00:13:03,179 site research facility. 179 00:13:03,179 --> 00:13:06,179 It was in Silicon Valley where rents are very high, so we went out into the 180 00:13:06,179 --> 00:13:12,740 periphery and found an office park where we could get a nice spot. 181 00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:14,100 So we got that spot. 182 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:16,379 So it was mostly empty. 183 00:13:16,379 --> 00:13:19,460 We had almost no furniture except for my office. 184 00:13:23,299 --> 00:13:26,940 And on the white board, I was drawing what I wanted to fill up with the rest 185 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:30,940 of the rooms, most of which was would be a laboratory with a certain kind 186 00:13:30,940 --> 00:13:34,700 of certain kind of equipment in the laboratory and a certain shape and 187 00:13:34,700 --> 00:13:37,379 electromagnetic shielding and the whole thing. 188 00:13:37,379 --> 00:13:42,299 So I'd spent a fair amount of time doing that on the board and pretty much empty 189 00:13:42,299 --> 00:13:44,299 otherwise, because we had other people working. 190 00:13:47,580 --> 00:14:01,759 So I would go to work in a certain path and just like immediately go into into the 191 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:54,680 So I looked in the windows. It had mini blinds and you just barely see through the 192 00:14:54,680 --> 00:15:07,280 There was no one there. So over the next month or so I occasionally would go look n... 193 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:27,940 So I stuck up my hand and said, Hello, I'm your neighbor. I'm and he said, Dean Raiden. 194 00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:35,940 Well, I was disoriented because I didn't, you know, I don't know who this guy is and I 195 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:46,019 Because he wanted me to be on his board of directors of his business. Well, what is y... 196 00:16:59,420 --> 00:17:12,259 So I thought, well, that's pretty strange. So then the second level of strangeness is I 197 00:17:24,860 --> 00:17:36,579 So I was pulling towards me this facility. He was pulling me towards him. And so we ende... 198 00:17:52,940 --> 00:18:03,740 We both had strong intention. We're both trying to pull and we almost literally coo... 199 00:18:20,779 --> 00:18:30,940 So it's synchronistic. Yes, because we weren't consciously trying to get the othe... 200 00:18:38,220 --> 00:18:52,420 So among other things, you have that kind of a synchronicity. You immediately start 201 00:19:02,099 --> 00:19:04,940 Yeah, that's fascinating. That's a good one. Hey, Darren. 202 00:19:04,940 --> 00:19:08,500 That's pretty good. Are you still working with them? 203 00:19:08,500 --> 00:19:21,500 I'm in contact. Actually got an email from him that took place over 2022, 23 years ag... 204 00:19:31,860 --> 00:19:40,140 We were friendly. We talked to each other and share ideas and stuff, but we didn't end u... 205 00:19:52,460 --> 00:20:01,180 So what's the what's the no edict signature that you guys have as a research project o... 206 00:20:01,180 --> 00:20:10,300 This is a survey, which is where we asked questions to find out what are you likely ... 207 00:20:11,620 --> 00:20:20,300 And one of the impetus for this was we did a survey now about a year ago, maybe two yea... 208 00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:25,500 there are lots of questionnaires that people do about beliefs, about the paranormal. 209 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:31,740 And the majority of people around the world believe in all kinds of things about the 210 00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:38,900 Well, the majority believe in one thing or the other. But we were more interested in 211 00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:56,099 So we wanted to know, well, OK, let's not ask about belief. Let's ask about what you've 212 00:20:56,099 --> 00:21:03,779 So we've made a questionnaire with 25 descriptions of things that happened to 213 00:21:15,660 --> 00:21:27,420 So not surprisingly, something like 93 percent of the general public said, yeah, 214 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:32,940 So regardless of what they may believe, they have personal experience with these kinds ... 215 00:21:44,980 --> 00:21:57,380 So this kind of confirmed to us that almost everyone at some point or another will hav... 216 00:22:10,059 --> 00:22:23,860 What would be, what is the most likely form in which it manifests for you? If you want... 217 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:36,860 So that's what that's the result you'd get after taking that questionnaire. 218 00:22:36,860 --> 00:22:44,820 Yeah, that's interesting. I think that this materialistic paradigm we're living in, I 219 00:22:44,820 --> 00:22:52,900 You know, we've got all the people, most of the people that we know and that we love 220 00:23:00,140 --> 00:23:11,579 I mean, over the last even 10, 20 years, I feel like it's really cracking, cracking 221 00:23:11,579 --> 00:23:20,019 Well, keep in mind that science and technology are completely based on 222 00:23:28,660 --> 00:23:33,099 Right? Materialism is what gives us the technology to do this interview. 223 00:23:33,099 --> 00:23:39,259 And basically, most of the rest of the modern world, based on these ideas. 224 00:23:39,259 --> 00:23:48,259 One of the concerns I hear from more conservative colleagues is that all this 225 00:23:55,099 --> 00:23:59,180 But that's that's an expression of fear and I've heard this many times. 226 00:23:59,180 --> 00:24:12,980 And so I remind them that you need to step out of the discipline, step even all the w... 227 00:24:20,099 --> 00:24:26,500 It's it's sitting on a philosophical set of assumptions. Most of them are right. They 228 00:24:26,500 --> 00:24:32,900 But where does it begin to fail? It fails largely on things that we call paranormal, 229 00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:39,820 They're not normal yet. They're flittering about somewhere else that includes psychic 230 00:24:47,380 --> 00:24:57,300 So we can use the same method to give us confidence about materialism, apply it to 231 00:24:57,300 --> 00:25:06,980 They're not accommodated by the assumptions. That means that there's something about 232 00:25:15,980 --> 00:25:21,780 And then whatever that discipline is, it keeps going for a while and somebody 233 00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:30,860 So what happens? They expand the set of assumptions. They don't throw away the old 234 00:25:37,860 --> 00:25:49,300 People are beginning to recognize there's all kinds of strange things associated with 235 00:25:49,300 --> 00:26:00,180 Because, I mean, just think about the nature of matter from a quantum perspective. It's 236 00:26:01,579 --> 00:26:10,259 Most people don't worry about it too much, although it's still called pretty weird. I... 237 00:26:10,259 --> 00:26:27,019 So at some point, I think there's a good possibility that what we currently call 238 00:26:34,059 --> 00:26:57,019 Which, like you mentioned in your book, in the real magic book, I mean, they've been 239 00:27:07,059 --> 00:27:23,460 So I used classical yoga as the entree there. And as it turns out, in classical yoga, th... 240 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:27,800 think of as classical yoga in four little books. In book number three, I think, eith... 241 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,680 I think it's book three of the Yoga Sutras is all about the development of the cities. 242 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:41,320 So city is a Sanskrit term which meant attainment, sometimes translated as 243 00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:57,400 about meditation and mental stuff, not what we see as calisthenics, which is modern yoga. 244 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:03,960 So somewhere between gymnastics and calisthenics is a lot of modern yoga. But ... 245 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:09,640 is all about meditation, it's about mental training. And the Yoga Sutras then say tha... 246 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:20,440 will call nosis, that you are able to do certain things. And so if you want to deve... 247 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,600 of telepathy, it gives you a recipe of how to do that. So this is written thousands of 248 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:33,160 You could look at it today from the point of view of it's like a comic book. It's, you 249 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:46,759 what Patanjali was writing about, we know now is true. So then like three quarters of th... 250 00:28:46,759 --> 00:28:52,680 true. Well, what kind of a strange comic book is this other piece of the book, which is 251 00:28:52,680 --> 00:29:00,440 about psychic powers, many things beyond what we see today. So he was either fantasizing... 252 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:11,480 the different kinds of powers that he talked about and say, is there any way to think 253 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,960 modern scientific methods that those powers might be real? The answer is yes. So the n... 254 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:23,320 I took the Western esoteric traditions. And for there, it's exactly the same as the 255 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:30,039 except we give it a different name. So it's not cities, it's magical practice. It's no... 256 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:43,240 are more comfortable with magic now because of Harry Potter and all the movies and 257 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:50,360 I figured it would appeal more than a book about yoga, because there are not that man... 258 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:56,680 interested in class, especially classical yoga. So, so that's why I wrote it. Becaus... 259 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,519 have been studying in the lab. We just use different terms. 260 00:30:08,519 --> 00:30:14,360 Well, did it surprise you in how in depth the history of it was? 261 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:22,120 No. No, I mean, the surprising part actually is that modern science is only a couple of 262 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:34,280 have collectively have assumed to be the case for a very long time. And by the way, that 263 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:41,480 assumptions were not based on dogma that somebody explained, you must have faith in 264 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:47,000 based on personal experience, most of that driven by either meditation or psychedelics. 265 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,280 people who take psychedelics and talk about exactly the same transformative experiences 266 00:30:56,280 --> 00:31:04,920 that they did when humans got out of the trees. What about manifestation and stuff 267 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:11,320 But have you done much experiments on that on a personal level and how that works? If yo... 268 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:25,720 an experiment in psychokinesis. It's mind-matter interaction. So you can make a 269 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,920 that the experiment we did using entangled photons was an exercise in manifestation. 270 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:36,519 So I wanted a certain result to show up and we had subjects come into the lab and they 271 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:52,120 have a good theory for it yet. So I generally view while I've done things myself as an 272 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:59,800 I trust the laboratory experiments more, even in my own experience, because it's easy to 273 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,080 yourself. It's easier to remember things incorrectly and so on. By the way, for the 274 00:32:10,039 --> 00:32:15,880 I will forget this. So I have it written down within about a day of it happening. So I'm 275 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:21,000 sure that's right. But for other things, like big strange things that happen, we either 276 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,680 we confabulate it or something, it kind of fades. Whereas in the laboratory, we're 277 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,880 and the data don't go away. And we set it up in a controlled condition. So we know that if 278 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:41,960 And then we write it up and we share it with our colleagues. And if we're lucky, someti... 279 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:47,960 replicate it. And the replication is important because now we know it wasn't ju... 280 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:56,360 but it's something that others can do as well. So that's why I tend to, while you h... 281 00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:07,080 on what we can actually see in the laboratory. Yeah, I was just going to ask 282 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:15,720 that out of the lab into some spiritual practice. Most spiritual practices say you 283 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:24,519 gain magical abilities. Don't dwell on it. Other than a few magical traditions, most ... 284 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:35,480 All that stuff is real. Don't play with it. And in a sense, I think it makes sense 285 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:41,240 you can encounter these kinds of phenomena pretty early on as you're developing. 286 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:48,280 And they're attractive. They're seductive, right? Because power is seductive. And if 287 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:53,160 ready for it, you could probably do pretty good damage to yourself and the people aro... 288 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:08,680 then learn how to sustain gnosis or samadhi for as long as you wish, then get 289 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:15,240 and then maybe on occasion, if you need to manifest something, you can do it. But don... 290 00:34:15,240 --> 00:34:21,400 with that as a goal. Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. I mean, that kind of leads 291 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:35,240 interested in the occult and magic, which only maybe in the past, the initiated or t... 292 00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:39,320 would have really known about. But now it's for everybody. Everybody's interested. I 293 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:46,760 can you speculate on how that's going to change our culture through sort of like a 294 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:59,559 I think in order to, in order to become adept at this, you'd need two things. First of all, 295 00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:05,400 you need talent. And so everybody can play tennis a little bit, but not very many peo... 296 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:12,519 to win a Wimbledon, right? So natural talent, you either have it or you don't. In this 297 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:25,320 like maybe one in a hundred thousand, maybe one in a million, actually have a strong 298 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:32,760 this. Everyone else can do it to some extent, but it's quite weak. If you think about wh... 299 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:39,000 to happen to manifest something, if you're pushing against eight billion other people 300 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:49,640 So I use as an example, sometimes I'd say, let's, let's imagine that you really wante... 301 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,559 a gold plate in Mercedes that simply shows up in your driveway and somehow it's yours. 302 00:35:53,559 --> 00:36:01,559 Well, it's possible just thinking about it, making a sigil, doing rituals, doing all 303 00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:06,199 It actually increases the probability that that's going to happen. But if you start w... 304 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:19,880 making it happen. So, so that's, that's kind of the same analogies. That's why you're 305 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:26,440 I can't fly because it's just fucking with too many other people. But I can like subt... 306 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:31,159 reality through other channels that, that could involve other people, like maybe oth... 307 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:43,320 you created and stuff like that. But you can't, you can't just like go blasting in ... 308 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:49,480 changing stuff up too much because it's just too hard on the programming. Other people 309 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:55,079 it. Yeah, that's what that's how I look at it is you have to be able to manifest without 310 00:37:02,039 --> 00:37:07,559 that you never reveal your secrets and you always do it in secret, right? So that lik... 311 00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:12,119 today that you can buy a grimoire that has a whole bunch of spells in it, that would ha... 312 00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:17,000 any genuine magician, because the moment that the spell is out there, it's not useful 313 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:23,079 So all of the practices and the secrecy and so on, or I mean, you know, you see in 314 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,159 you're doing isolated to the extent so that other people's minds couldn't get in and m... 315 00:37:33,159 --> 00:37:40,840 So along that same line, what is the danger now of having this 316 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:51,720 giant behemoth that is the media and how it has access to, you know, billions of peopl... 317 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:08,680 could that be used in a in a supernatural sense? Well, that's a good question. A lot... 318 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:15,400 on the degree to which people are manipulated. So we know that there are 319 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:20,280 So people involved in advertising and propaganda, there are the whole point of i... 320 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:31,320 works in advertising. Right? So if I'm out driving somewhere and I see McDonald's, I 321 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:37,000 the McDonald's. I need the hamburger and I need the French fries because you see it o... 322 00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:43,000 it looks like it's the best thing ever made. So you see, you know, that that's 323 00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:49,880 a program that says I will enjoy myself and have a happy meal. If I have this food, ev... 324 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:02,440 division of psyops within the army that does that. That's what that's what they do. 325 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:09,559 work for something like grand manifestations. It's a little tricky. Well, I don't even k... 326 00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:17,800 grand manifestations, but I just think that like, if there are people that are that ar... 327 00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:35,000 them to their own ends? Well, I mean, look at the beginning of the Iraq war. Right? So o... 328 00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:41,640 Congress voted against it. Everybody else played along with it. Right? So that was a 329 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:57,159 trillion dollars spent for basically no reason. So yeah, it's used all the time. I... 330 00:39:57,159 --> 00:40:02,039 politics in a sense. That's what politics is. It's about manipulating public opinion to ... 331 00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:10,840 So one hopes that I'm watching the news that you look at a broad variety of news like n... 332 00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:19,720 people in the media? And what is the message from that people? And you at least can mak... 333 00:40:19,720 --> 00:40:25,480 choice about what you believe if you look at the whole panoply. Most people don't do th... 334 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:32,840 people are more comfortable just seeing one particular idea that's it's echoing back o... 335 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:39,880 they want to believe. It's less comfortable to look at all sides of complex issues. An... 336 00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:50,360 don't they don't watch TV news. They don't read anything in the newspapers. He's just 337 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:55,320 oblivious to it. So that's another approach. I want to get back for a minute to the gold 338 00:40:55,320 --> 00:41:02,680 played in Mercedes because I figured I used that as as an example of some 339 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:06,679 I figured I used that as an example of something that would cause a disruption in 340 00:41:06,679 --> 00:41:11,159 because it had to come from somewhere somebody is not getting it and probably I'... 341 00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:19,239 instead or something like that. So one of my Facebook friends said actually you wheneve... 342 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:32,279 clear about what it is that you want because she gave me a gold plated Mercedes this 343 00:41:32,279 --> 00:41:39,159 little Mercedes it's it's gold color it's not plated in gold but she said see you wanted... 344 00:41:39,159 --> 00:41:44,599 you have it but I'm thinking no that that's not what I wanted like a big one well she 345 00:41:50,759 --> 00:41:56,119 affirmations and even in the laboratory if we give somebody instruction we'd like you to... 346 00:41:56,119 --> 00:42:03,079 and such and it's not really precise we might get exactly what we have to get but it was... 347 00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:10,839 really wanted so we have to be very clear about when we're using our intention becau... 348 00:42:18,039 --> 00:42:23,799 that that that will be the thing that you want so actually I'm very happy with this 349 00:42:23,799 --> 00:42:29,000 this were actual gold plated Mercedes I would have to explain to somebody where did it c... 350 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:33,559 right and so it just shows up one day it's probably not mine and maybe you know someb... 351 00:42:40,839 --> 00:42:46,759 that it is actually registered to you like some somebody somewhere just decided to gi... 352 00:42:46,759 --> 00:42:50,279 that even that's not very satisfying because you immediately wondering who can afford 353 00:42:50,279 --> 00:42:56,440 what a hundred and fifty thousand or two hundred thousand dollar car to give away 354 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:01,960 it makes waves and ripples in the collective and that's generally not not a great thing... 355 00:43:07,639 --> 00:43:13,400 chaos magic like I've I know a couple people that have had that have had the they've 356 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,759 exactly what they wanted but at a price you know they got the exact amount of money th... 357 00:43:18,759 --> 00:43:24,440 for in this sigil thing that they did but they wrecked they wrecked a car to get it ... 358 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:29,319 seems like it's it's like you know you be careful what you wish for kind of thing 359 00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:42,679 used to live next to a neighbor that for reasons I don't understand they had a hous... 360 00:43:42,679 --> 00:43:47,960 air conditioning in the house but for some reason they didn't like to use it so I put... 361 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:54,920 conditioner that was just a made a racket all the time so all during the summer that racket 362 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:07,960 droning all the time so I made a sigil to make it go away and then after a while I 363 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:13,319 thinking about it said oh you know I didn't specify why it was going to go away maybe 364 00:44:13,319 --> 00:44:17,239 catch fire and burn down the house you know maybe something horrible would happen mayb... 365 00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:24,519 to fall out of the window and squash something so I rethought it and and so I h... 366 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:38,759 process well occasionally it would be turned off like I don't know it's still hot outsi... 367 00:44:38,759 --> 00:44:44,119 turn it off and you know that suddenly it felt like great it's this thing has stoppe... 368 00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:50,359 went completely away it only went away when we moved right so here's how the sigil can 369 00:44:56,039 --> 00:45:01,319 away and then you won't be bothered by it anymore well it did what I wanted it to do 370 00:45:01,319 --> 00:45:06,440 exactly the way I thought it would happen yeah exactly that's exactly what I was 371 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:14,279 how did you how did you actually reword that then I reworded it to say that nobody woul... 372 00:45:20,759 --> 00:45:27,559 uh I'll show you here like a reason that I was concerned is because I went to a metal 373 00:45:27,559 --> 00:45:33,400 bending party where people bend spoons and things like that and the only thing I thou... 374 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:39,000 I would be surprised at or interested to see was somebody bending the bowl of a spoon i... 375 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,559 twisting like twisting on the neck and stuff and bending the neck it's easy to do 376 00:45:48,039 --> 00:45:57,880 you'll get injured but I did it holy wow so so this this is a heavy soup spoon is it's 377 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:05,239 you know it's stuck there it's really it's like it was always there so I got another 378 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:10,440 I was taking a plane to go home and I was going to try to replicate what I had done 379 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:23,239 because we were in the air at the time and I had no idea how I did this so I thought well 380 00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:28,199 maybe the wings will suddenly become soft and the plane's going to fall out of the sky 381 00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:34,519 don't know what the extent of this is so it was a good lesson in that if you don't kno... 382 00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:38,440 doing this is one of the reasons why you start gaining certain powers you have to b... 383 00:46:44,359 --> 00:46:49,319 so that's that's where this lore comes from then yeah you're going to start gaining 384 00:46:49,319 --> 00:46:56,840 but be very very careful about it great point um I do hear a lot of instances and I've met 385 00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:02,359 quite a few people who have had NDEs and they have they have gained special powers I mea... 386 00:47:02,359 --> 00:47:07,159 know if that's just a latent power within them that's been manifested because of thi... 387 00:47:14,039 --> 00:47:19,639 did you see any of that when you were studying the or writing about the history ... 388 00:47:19,639 --> 00:47:29,000 and the esoteric transformational experiences in general will will awaken some abilities... 389 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:33,880 it's true with psychedelics it's true with meditation you've done surveys with people 390 00:47:38,759 --> 00:47:44,840 from synchronicities to clairvoyance and the rest almost everyone says yes so it's not 391 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:51,000 at that point they're they're getting spontaneous effects of this type they seem... 392 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:58,199 to the beginning practice of meditation for the same thing with uh with psychedelics f... 393 00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:09,559 ordinary way of thinking about the world you don't come back the same person 394 00:48:09,559 --> 00:48:17,799 and and something about the the opening uh as seeing the reality in a slightly more 395 00:48:17,799 --> 00:48:23,079 way uh maybe does something as simple as give yourself permission because you know most of 396 00:48:23,079 --> 00:48:27,480 the time where we're going about their daily lives we're not really paying that much of 397 00:48:32,199 --> 00:48:38,920 so all of that is constraining it's almost like blinders whereas if you can go somewh... 398 00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:45,880 experience the world at large without all of those expectations and plans it's much muc... 399 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:50,440 and we don't we generally like to feel comfortable we don't want to go around 400 00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:56,199 time so we create a very stable reality where where we know things are going to be a 401 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:10,119 yeah I mean if you get you get a DMT experience or or something mystical 402 00:49:10,119 --> 00:49:16,440 NDE or whatever that's a shot in the side of the head that that that'll wake you up 403 00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:23,000 some people will wake up and become psychotic right even in meditation a small percentag... 404 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:33,800 they will go psychotic because they can't handle it so there's there's one of the 405 00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:40,199 where reasonably stable in terms of the way that we see the world is because evolution 406 00:49:40,199 --> 00:49:45,239 to be that way because I think we all have the capacity to know what's going on in Pl... 407 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:52,119 billion years ago you know we just direct our attention there and we can get it but it's... 408 00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:06,039 that that frontal lobe suppression goes away during those periods it suppresses it because 409 00:50:06,039 --> 00:50:10,039 it is not useful for us as an organism to survive by knowing what happened in Pluto a 410 00:50:10,039 --> 00:50:14,359 billion years ago what's important is the tiger who's immediately in front of you ri... 411 00:50:14,359 --> 00:50:21,399 so you can see how the the brain and body have developed so that we are very very 412 00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:33,480 pick up anything from anywhere yeah I like that I've never thought about it like that 413 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:38,440 it's maybe just as simple as giving yourself permission to to experience that stuff now 414 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:43,399 you've sort of opened up you've had some crazy thing now it's it's it's opened up t... 415 00:50:43,399 --> 00:50:49,559 honest and open with the rest of it yeah I like that without without freaking out so ... 416 00:50:53,880 --> 00:51:00,279 psychic ability almost always devolves into horror like like there's even a you know a... 417 00:51:00,279 --> 00:51:06,039 look on the television say I want to see a science fiction show it's listed as a genr... 418 00:51:06,039 --> 00:51:12,359 fiction and horror because most of the studies end up being horrific and so if 419 00:51:12,359 --> 00:51:17,480 to a person and and it's some kind of psychic thing it's not simply that it's felt that 420 00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:31,880 so among other things besides all the other work I'm doing I have written a co-written... 421 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:39,639 which is not it hasn't been bought yet but we're working on it the tv series is an 422 00:51:39,639 --> 00:51:46,920 to psychic phenomena as horrific it's the it's a flip side saying psychic phenomena 423 00:51:53,559 --> 00:52:00,199 beneficial for you and everybody else so it's a very it's a different way of approaching 424 00:52:00,199 --> 00:52:05,719 topic but with a much more positive message and of course being science fiction is sti... 425 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:11,399 kinds of mysterious things happening in it to be interesting to watch but the bottom lin... 426 00:52:18,359 --> 00:52:23,559 positive and awe-inspiring and inspirational what is the power of positive thinking 427 00:52:23,559 --> 00:52:30,440 before we wrap up I mean what's is there a benefit to just going through life looking... 428 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:37,559 bright side oh absolutely yeah just from a purely psychological perspective it's much 429 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:51,800 everything is expecting positivity and the likelihood then of encountering that is mu... 430 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:57,079 higher than if you go around expecting some kind of horrific thing to occur but yeah I 431 00:52:57,079 --> 00:53:03,559 dimension you can think of it's it's valuable wow what are you working on uh upcoming 432 00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:16,920 also a co-founder of a company that's using genetic engineering to treat to actually 433 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:23,480 some of the behavior in the brain to treat anxiety depression and eventually dementia 434 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,359 sounds scary 435 00:53:36,119 --> 00:53:42,679 the drugs that are used today to treat anxiety and and actually lots of other thi... 436 00:53:42,679 --> 00:53:50,199 SSRI drugs serotonin selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor drugs what it does is y... 437 00:53:50,199 --> 00:53:56,039 and it causes there be much more serotonin in the body they could floods the brain and t... 438 00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,359 as receptive because otherwise you'd feel like you're going crazy you know you have 439 00:54:06,359 --> 00:54:12,679 would crawling and it's toxic so the brain is quite good at this and has feedback loops to 440 00:54:12,679 --> 00:54:19,319 to down regulate its reception to serotonin and you'll start feeling better you won't ... 441 00:54:25,399 --> 00:54:32,840 takes like five or six weeks to kick in if you suddenly stop you either become homici... 442 00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:38,599 suicidal or both and there's lots of cases where people really have had a bad deal by 443 00:54:39,460 --> 00:54:42,720 But so we decided 444 00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:50,460 The the new rush now in the pharma business is using psychedelics to treat anxiety and 445 00:54:50,460 --> 00:54:57,960 Why because the chemical structure of most psychedelics we're talking about LSD 446 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:11,760 So if you take these psychedelic drugs, it does the equivalent of an SS a ride floods 447 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:16,960 Because in this case it looks like serotonin. So the brain down regulates and sure enoug... 448 00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,039 You're not depressed and you're not anxious 449 00:55:19,039 --> 00:55:22,160 So the thing is if you stop taking 450 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:37,640 So we said, okay, what what are those drugs actually doing what they're doing is 451 00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:45,440 Where you what you want to do is turn them down. You want to make them less receptive... 452 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,160 So we know we can do that now 453 00:55:54,760 --> 00:56:02,160 To serotonin that's what you can do now with genetic engineering and we developed a way... 454 00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,519 noninvasively 455 00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:08,840 So most of the other other methods that are being used for genetic engineering now 456 00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,960 You would put a six inch needle directly into your brain and then inject it 457 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:24,200 So we have a way of getting into your brain noninvasively it we know through proof of 458 00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,360 Test that we've done that it will in fact change 459 00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:31,519 receptivity of certain neurons and it also affects anxiety 460 00:56:31,519 --> 00:56:38,519 So this is this is the direction that a lot of psychiatric drugs are going to find out 461 00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,160 The problem is I get an airplane and I'm anxious 462 00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:46,840 okay 463 00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:52,240 What's probably happening is that there's too much serotonin being reuptake blah blah bl... 464 00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:59,200 Here take this and this will fix you and in fact it looks like it does fix people 465 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:04,760 So it's at this point. We're looking mainly at relatively simple things like anxiety 466 00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:16,519 The reason we can do it is because there are tools now that allow it to be done 467 00:57:16,519 --> 00:57:22,960 So the Nobel Prize was given to the the two women who developed this genetic editing 468 00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:29,480 They got the Nobel Prize. So it's a relatively new method. We've been working ... 469 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,320 targeted medical treatment 470 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:38,360 In some ways, it seems like a bit of a contradiction to the ions thing 471 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:44,400 I mean, what about meditation and and natural things for anxiety? I mean, that's isn't t... 472 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,880 Helpful and healing and to a certain extent it is 473 00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:55,840 Some people can't go there. Yeah, right if you're very anxious a lot of people don't 474 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,560 No, yeah, I've come across a lot of people 475 00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:10,280 And when you get to the state of dementia and especially Alzheimer's, you don't have the 476 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:13,880 Yeah, so it's true that we think ultimately 477 00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:18,560 The brain and body can create all kinds of internal chemicals 478 00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:23,600 Like the whole the whole pharmacy can be recreated in our own body 479 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,560 So eventually yes, we'll be able to do all of this without any drugs at all 480 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:39,920 I would say an interim as we move more and more towards 481 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,960 Targeted very specific ways of treating that doesn't saturate the body with the drug 482 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:50,560 Because as you know if you watch TV at night and you see advertising for drugs 483 00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:53,200 Then they'll say in really small type and very quickly 484 00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,720 By the way, this might kill you 485 00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,600 And it's gonna screw everything up. It might help you a little bit 486 00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:09,720 But probably not I mean that's almost exactly what they're saying because the 487 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:14,600 So we're moving in a direction where no you have a problem 488 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,840 You fix only that and you don't saturate the body with all this other stuff 489 00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:24,280 Working our listeners track you down if they want to get your books or figure out what 490 00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,960 My personal site or they should go to no attic org 491 00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,440 Which is the Institute of Noetic Sciences? 492 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:38,480 If they really want to learn about the rest of what I'm doing they go to cognagenics.io 493 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,079 Is that genetics is just how it sounds? 494 00:59:42,079 --> 00:59:45,000 Excuse me. Is that just how it sounds? 495 00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:49,240 Yeah, Cogna genics COG and I 496 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,120 GNICS.io 497 00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:01,880 Well, well, well, we'll make sure we linked all that stuff in the show notes 498 01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:08,220 So everyone can track that down. We really appreciate you coming on the show and come 499 01:00:08,220 --> 01:00:10,720 Thank you. This was fun 500 01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:14,720 Jaffa now see you 501 01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:22,160 Next time we'll try and make it so Kyle doesn't talk so much. He really is pretty 502 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:31,780 Well, hey, you're welcome to jump in anytime buddy. Yeah, no, I want to ask him, you kn... 503 01:00:31,780 --> 01:00:34,320 Just a couple weeks ago 504 01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,880 like and we can't figure out how those giant walls and 505 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:44,480 Cusco and sucks of a mon and giant structures and launch a tumble how they exactly manag... 506 01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:58,920 Maybe they did it was where we couldn't even do it. A lot of that we couldn't even do i... 507 01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,000 Like I don't want a tombo 508 01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:02,940 They got that those giant rocks up there 509 01:01:02,940 --> 01:01:08,280 But one of them's at the bottom and they had to build a road around it because even tod... 510 01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:16,079 Yeah, so using that manifestation that he was talking about one is that possibly using t... 511 01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:22,560 so that that was something I wanted to 512 01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:25,720 Was wondering like to to ask them about that so 513 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:30,039 Yeah, interesting 514 01:01:30,039 --> 01:01:36,520 Yeah, big thanks to Dean for coming on the show big. Thanks to Kyle for hanging out w... 515 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:42,200 Thanks to Graham didn't really have much of a choice today. No, you're stuck here. Thank... 516 01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:51,200 Find out tomorrow still negative up till now up to now but 517 01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,880 Pretty sure that'll change by 12. I'm still feeling a little tired and achy. So 518 01:01:55,880 --> 01:02:00,480 Yeah, hopefully you'll survive 519 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:07,640 You're not one of those people that I should have got the vaccine. I should have got it 520 01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:19,880 And you want to send some value back our way head over to gramerica.ca/support today si... 521 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:25,320 Head over to adultbrain.ca if you want to get some of those great audio books Graham has 522 01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:33,200 So the esoteric classics of all time including the latest one that just came ou... 523 01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:43,340 It's all 524 01:02:43,340 --> 01:02:44,820 coughing 525 01:02:44,820 --> 01:02:50,120 Canadian shit. He's just faking it. It's not like school dude. It's not like you don't 526 01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,120 I've seen the test 527 01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,340 Canadian dot shame dot ca if you want to get my book 528 01:02:56,340 --> 01:02:59,600 Head over to gramerica.ca/chats to get in on the conversation 529 01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:13,960 Of our fantastic events. We just had a great day and time down in Washington again. I'm 530 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:15,960 I mean, I mean 531 01:03:15,960 --> 01:03:19,840 America that's yes