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The way of Will John.

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So the thing in meditation, it's slightly different in that you want to get to a point where you're not trying to do anything, right?

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So, you know, if you think about the act of concentrating, that requires a certain amount of effort because it's not easy to pull down your concentration and focus on one thing.

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If you try to do that, it's self-defeating within a meditative state.

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So there, it's like Yoda said, there is no try.

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There is do or not do.

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So you get to that strange internal state of effortless striving.

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You are concentrating, but with no effort at all.

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And it takes a while to figure out what that even means, but nevertheless, that's where you're going.

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And then it becomes a completely effortless task, but it could have extremely high concentration at the same time.

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So that's quite different than everyday way of being.

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Yeah.

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So once you learn how to do that within a meditative state, you have this effortless striving, high focus, you then put an intentional spin on it, which is, I want this.

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Again, with no effort and no anxiety, which is not easy to do.

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But those are the states within magical traditions, for example, of how do I affirm something that will actually be more likely to occur?

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It's not guaranteed to occur, but you can increase the probability of it.

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That's what we see in these experiments.

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You increase the probability of a certain outcome through focused attention without anxiety, plus an intentional, I think of it as a spin.

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Like the intention itself is like a stable laser beam.

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It's just there.

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It doesn't do anything.

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But if you spin it, you're now making it do something.

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I see.

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I see.

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It makes a, I mean, we've been hearing things like this from the ancients and from different stuff and from different books, different texts for many, many, many years, which is perfect because it leads me to my next question about something that I'm sure you've encountered.

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Or I know you have, at least to a certain degree, the dogma that exists within the current paradigm for, uh, the mentality that we have within society, obviously one, which is rather materialistic in its, in its nature, in the sense that the materialist worldview, let's say, uh, is the dominating worldview, uh, of today.

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Why is it that I'm of the sense of you, obviously you're, you're not saying, you know, all the answers, you don't know what it is, but you, you clearly feel that it's something that needs to be researched and that's what you're doing.

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I'm of the same sense is that it would appear that something beyond what we truly understand is going on, but we tend to kind of shy away from it.

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And I I'm curious if you know why that is, or if we are going to, and I do feel as if even in these times that I, in this past 10 years, it does feel like it's shifting to a point where we're discussing it more and there's more avenues for someone to get into it.

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But I'm curious if you know, are we going to get to the point where we are openly speaking about this as if, or, and it's, it's very possible that governments and obviously in other classified programs, they are acting as if it's a norm, you know, if it's normal and it possibly it was for you in the remote viewing, uh, world where it's, this is a fact and it's not a fact for the majority of the world.

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I think, uh, we have a tendency to say, yeah, that could be something, but I would imagine our world would entirely change and flip upside down.

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If everyone had a true understanding of what the mind is capable of doing, even on a small, you know, infinitesimally small level, what that means and how you can affect your world and what you can do and, and what sort of technology we might even try to create to amplify, which was going to be another one of my questions.

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But I, I'll stick with the dogma question first before I, I go into, is there a way to amplify this with technology and have we done so, uh, you know, so yeah.

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Right. So given, uh, that these kinds of experiences are very common, uh, given that belief is, uh, uh, the majority of people in the world believe in one or more of these kinds of phenomena, including scientists and engineers.

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They also have a majority belief, uh, then why is this not covered in, uh, the 15,000 institutions of higher learning around the world?

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Uh, there's roughly 30 or 40 universities where there's a faculty member who's interested, but that's out of millions and millions of, of faculty members, most of whom might privately believe, but they've been taught not to talk about it.

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Right. So what, well, why is that? Well, one reason is that some religions say, uh, this is the work of the devil. And so you ignore it for that reason. There's pressure applied to not do this. Uh, other religions say, this is great, but it's religion and it's not science and science and religion are not very comfortable partners with each other.

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So in the academic world, generally, even people who are historians of religion or scholars of religion, they would never, almost never, some do, but most would not, not talk about the religious psychic events that happen.

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Like the Bible is a, is, is a listing. It's a taxonomy of different kinds of psychic things. Very few would be willing to say this was actually real. This is how it really worked. Even today, scholars of, uh, of ancient yogic practices would look at potentially his yoga sutras and say, Oh, well, no, he wasn't really talking about real telepathy and real precognito. He was talking about it in a, in a metaphorical or an allegorical state because nobody believes in that stuff.

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Well, that comes about because of the prevailing idea, the worldview held by most educated people in the world today, which is materialism, which is extremely successful as a way of understanding reality. It means it says that everything is based on matter and energy, including your brain, including your mind, including consciousness itself.

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So if that is true, if, if that is, that's all there is, it's just material in the bottom, it's randomness, and there's no meaning or purpose for anything, then these kinds of phenomena that we're talking about are impossible, literally.

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It cannot occur. That's what people are taught. Like anyone who considers themselves educated today goes to, uh, uh, school for 20 years, and then maybe they go on to higher education.

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And that's what they're taught continually. Not usually by saying it in the, in this way, they're taught this principle or a way of viewing reality. And it's very difficult.

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For people to argue against it, except for their own experience. And that doesn't count.

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So, so we end up with this, this worldview and we've, we've gone through many worldviews in history. This one's particularly powerful because it gives us the technologies that, that tell us that obviously these things work, right? We couldn't do this interview unless it worked.

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Sure. So, so, so what I, what I try to then, uh, paint as a picture of what amounts to the philosophy of science without calling it that, cause that would scare people away.

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The philosophy of science is like any philosophy is about the assumptions underlying a way of viewing reality within the academic world today.

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The assumption is the consciousness. We don't really know what it is, but it's probably something produced by the brain.

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In which case it's completely limited to your ordinary senses.

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Our view of reality is produced by local senses in your body that makes telepathy and clairvoyance and all the rest not possible.

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But since we know that it is possible, it means that some elements of our worldview today based on materialism are simply wrong.

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And so the reason why I wrote the book super normal and then wrote the book real magic was to look at other worldviews that had been around for tens of thousands of years.

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We call them esoteric now as compared to materialism and within the esoteric worldviews, all of these phenomena we're talking about now are easy to understand normal because that's the way the world is.

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So I think what's happening is science as a method is really powerful and it's slowly moving in the direction of saying, oh, well, okay, the world is not the way that Newton was describing.

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It's not even the way that we understood at the beginning of the 20th century, but over the course from the 20th, over that hundred year period, our understanding of what material meant radically changed, as did our understanding of space and time and all of these very fundamental things.

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They're totally different than they were 100 years ago, and more importantly, they're different in the direction that make them more and more compatible with the experiences that we're talking about.

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So science is not finished, and physics is certainly not finished.

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And if you keep going on that arrow, I think we'll eventually begin to converge more and more with some elements of the esoteric traditions.

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And the way we're going to do that, I would predict then, is that there's something about consciousness, which is way more important than we had previously thought.

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It is not part of physics today, but I think in the future it will be.