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Some intelligence services are separated between operations and intelligence. We're not.

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So this intelligence becomes actionable in terms of carrying out dirty tricks.

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Yeah, yeah. I mean, it gives you leverage. Once you know everybody and what they're doing,

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what they're thinking, what they're planning, I mean, you have the opportunity to manipulate

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them any way you want by causing certain things to occur or making certain suggestions in certain

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areas or, you know, just simply outright blackmail against them or anything that you can leverage

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against them or anything that they against somebody they really care about. So you have an opportunity

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to do all of that. Where do you think we're headed? I often wonder if we're all going to be Uyghurs one

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day. I mean, the Chinese, they're sort of a couple steps ahead, but we're certainly moving in that

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direction. Yeah, especially with things like the Internet of Things. And also it gives them the

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opportunity to do any kind of thing like using existing kinds of weapons to like the Cubans did

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in our embassy or the Russians did with microwaves in our embassy in Moscow. They could do the same

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thing here with other people. And we have some people complaining. That's in fact what is happening.

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So explain what the microwave, how it works. Well, what it will do is give you a certain microwaves

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frequencies coming at you will burn your skin and actually burn it down to a certain depth. So it

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goes through walls. Yeah. Yep. And it can. Yes, it can go through walls. But they also have, you know,

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other kinds of laser type things that can be even more intense. So and they can use infrared to find

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out where you are and follow you inside your building. Those kinds of things. Yeah. Well, we all we all carry our own

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tracking devices with the phone for the NSA. And we paid we pay for the privilege. Yes, we do. And we

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pay pay also that for them to spy on us. So you have. But in with the Uyghurs, you've got all this

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facial recognition technology. Many of these IA companies come out of Silicon Valley. Is that

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where you see all this? Absolutely. Yeah. And I see it because the in NSA, there's a program called

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treasure map. That program's intent is to track every device on the network worldwide every minute

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of every day where it is. So that's using GPS for your cell phones and computers and so on. But also

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you can marry that up with the with the all the cameras that exist in the world. And if you can tap

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into them, you can see where somebody is and get their face from that picture. And if you have locations

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that you have video on for at least three, three, three different videos, you can find the common

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face. In that case that I mean, because you can get down to a foot or two. So in that point, you can

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then start mapping all the faces with all the data you have against that person that the phone numbers

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and computers numbers and so on. And so that then and then get all the other devices feeding you from

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the Internet of Things, if you will. And you get to see everything around that person. Which you can't turn

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off. We think we can turn off. No, we can't. Yeah, we can't. No, no, that's right. It's it may look

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like it's off, but it's not off. No, that's right. That's right. What kind of a world are we creating? I

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mean, there's no oversight. There's no control. This is secret government. Yeah, whatever you think

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about Trump, there is a deep state. This is it. The few times legislative, the legislative body like

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Feinstein have tried to, boy, they got they came for her. I mean, there doesn't seem to be any

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control at this point. Yeah. And that's what we've been we whistleblowers been arguing about that

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that all of this needs to come under control. We tried to make a suggestion to government as to how

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to do that. But it needs to be I mean, we really need to have some people held accountable legally

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and in criminal court for the actions they've done so far before. If we don't do that, then this thing

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is just going to continue. I mean, we have to hold them accountable in criminal court and

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put them in jail really for what one of the crimes they've committed. One of the things

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that I find fascinating, you have figures like Clapper Brennan, former high intelligence officials

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who, for whatever you think about Trump, have mounted a public campaign on behalf of the intelligence

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community. They moved into a political assault machine against the White House. And one has

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to suspect that they are speaking on behalf of these organizations.

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Well, there's another whistleblower coming out. I don't know if you've not too much attention

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been paid to it. He ran a program called the hammer out of CIA and it was set up by Clapper

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and Brennan, according to the whistleblower. And the primary target for that was the Trump campaign

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and even Trump before the campaign, as well as the president after the campaign. So this

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was set up separate so that they could do from CIA, inside CIA, so that they could do

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it and get away with it without having any record in any other agency of the government.

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So this was a separate program set up by CIA Clapper and Brennan to do this kind of thing.

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This is what the whistleblower is saying. Well, I mean, and the language. I mean, they call

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calling Trump an agent or a stooge of Moscow, a traitor, I think they've used these kinds

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of words. And aside, it doesn't matter what you think of Trump and I'm a Trump critic, but

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that kind of power unleashed within the society is frightening and despotic. And just look at

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them coming out in the open and saying these kinds of things. It shows you the arrogance

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of the power they think they have. And that's why they have to be held accountable because

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if they aren't, I mean, this kind of activity will simply continue.

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Well, they're not, not only are they not held accountable, but they become J. Edgar Hoover

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on steroids or Brea or any other. And essentially, they control the state because anybody, even

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in the system of power, defies them at tremendous risk.

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They do, yes. And you can see that with Barr and Durham now, they're being attacked. So,

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and the idea is that they're trying to get to the truth. And these, this secret government

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doesn't want that because they'll be exposed. And once they, when they start being exposed,

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then it's going to be like dominoes. They're going to fall one after the other. And that breaks

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up the entire state. And that's really what we have to do. I mean, otherwise, we're never

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going to stop this. It's only going to get worse.

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And what will the state look like? Is it Orwellian at that point?

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It is. Well, I mean, we're pretty close to that right now.

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Right. And what do they want? I mean, what is their goal? Is it just complete control on

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behalf of a global oligarchic elite? I don't want to simplify it, but what is...

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No, I think that's pretty close. I mean, I think it's just power and control the population.

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It's population control.

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And that's because, of course, with social inequality, the stripping of civil and labor

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rights, you are dividing industrial nations into the tiny cabal of elites and serfs.

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Yes. And that's happening around the world. Yeah.

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Right. Thanks, Bill.

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That was intelligence expert and NSA whistleblower, William Binney.