1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,040
Also, I had to find, one time they wanted me to find, to find out if there was such a thing as a poison that was undetectable, especially one that seemed to mimic a heart attack, that would kill someone, but it would appear that they had a heart attack. I did find such a thing.

2
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:32,920
Does this pistol fire the dart? Yes, it does, Mr. Chairman. And a special one was developed, which potentially would be able to enter the target without perception.

3
00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:54,560
The poison was frozen into some sort of dart, and then it was shot at very high speed into the person, so when it reached the person, it would melt inside them, and the only thing would be like one little tiny red dot on their body, which was hard to detect. There wouldn't be a needle left or anything like that in the person.

4
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But also, the toxin itself would not appear in the autopsy?

5
00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:04,320
Yes, so that there was no way of perceiving that the target was him.

6
00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:22,760
For many years, I didn't even tell my friends I worked for CIA, because I was embarrassed. It's colored my life, it always will. It's like a shadow that falls over my life all the time. I still, if I say anything against them, I turn around wondering if I'm being followed.

7
00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:42,280
I never even thought of joining the CIA. First of all, I thought I probably couldn't get in, because it was considered the Cadillac of government agencies, and they mostly hired from, I believe, colleges.

8
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:57,240
And I was just out of high school, went right to work for Veterans Administration. And actually, it was the typewriter repairman came in to prepare my typewriter one day, and he said, you know, you shouldn't be working here. You should be working at a nicer place.

9
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:12,440
They test you a lot. Huge testing. I mean, when you put into this personnel pool, there's probably two or three weeks of tests where it's all day long, every single day.

10
00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:26,560
And their IQ tests, their personality tests, the questions that bothered me the most was when I took the polygraph test. And the polygraph test, they ask you such incredibly personal questions.

11
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For instance, they asked me if I was a virgin, and I was 18, and I thought, what business is it of theirs, whether I am or not?

12
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And I was rather embarrassed to tell them that I was, because I don't think any of my girlfriends were. I was raised very strict.

13
00:02:48,740 --> 00:02:59,860
There were very few women at CIA who were other than secretaries. It was very sexist. It was the male establishment, the white male establishment.

14
00:03:00,380 --> 00:03:05,660
I asked a couple of times why it was that there were no blacks there and why there were no gay people there.

15
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Although they didn't call them gays in those days. I think they called them queers in those days.

16
00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:18,540
And they said because homosexuals could not be cleared because they could be blackmailed.

17
00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:25,320
They said that blacks couldn't be cleared because blacks just weren't, they were just still too primitive.

18
00:03:25,580 --> 00:03:32,100
They just weren't usually smart enough. And they didn't have the kind of background that white people had.

19
00:03:32,100 --> 00:03:37,300
I mean, I didn't think that much at the time, because it was like sort of standard operating procedure.

20
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:45,800
But when I think about it now, I'm really quite shocked how you probably would never get a job from a black.

21
00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:52,580
I was assigned as a secretary in the audio surveillance division.

22
00:03:54,500 --> 00:04:00,060
There were experts on listening devices and hidden microphones and that sort of thing.

23
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:09,280
I did also very often help the operatives get the documents that they needed once in a while

24
00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:14,920
and have to make a quick trip to the State Department to pick up their passports.

25
00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:20,980
And sometimes if we couldn't get the passports in time, then I'd have to go over to Graphic Arts Reproduction Division

26
00:04:20,980 --> 00:04:23,120
so that they could forge one for them.

27
00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:29,960
Most of them were artists in there, but they were recruited from prisons because they were forgers

28
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and they were master forgers.

29
00:04:32,260 --> 00:04:34,280
They were people who knew how to forge money.

30
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And they forged all kinds of things.

31
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That's how they made their living.

32
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,660
And so the FBI would arrest them and then the CIA would come and spring them.

33
00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:53,740
Then I went to technical services where I was in charge of finding documents that you don't find in libraries,

34
00:04:54,200 --> 00:05:00,640
like where you put explosives on a bridge, where's the best place to put an explosive on a bridge,

35
00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:06,220
and what kind of explosive do you have to get that goes underwater without it destroying its effectiveness.

36
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:15,700
Also, I had to find one time they wanted me to find out if there was such a thing as a poison that was undetectable,

37
00:05:16,100 --> 00:05:21,460
especially one that seemed to mimic a heart attack that would kill someone,

38
00:05:21,580 --> 00:05:24,000
but it would appear that they had a heart attack.

39
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,360
I did find such a thing.

40
00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,980
Does this pistol fire the dart?

41
00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:30,920
Yes, it does, Mr. Chairman.

42
00:05:31,300 --> 00:05:38,240
And a special one was developed which potentially would be able to enter the target without perception.

43
00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:42,060
The poison was frozen into some sort of dart,

44
00:05:42,740 --> 00:05:47,160
and then it was shot at very high speed into the person.

45
00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,100
So when it reached the person, it would melt inside them,

46
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,060
and the only thing would be like one little tiny red dot on their body,

47
00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:56,600
which was hard to detect.

48
00:05:56,980 --> 00:05:59,900
There wouldn't be a needle left or anything like that in the person.

49
00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:05,220
Have you brought with you some of those devices

50
00:06:05,220 --> 00:06:09,620
which would have enabled the CIA to use this poison for...

51
00:06:09,620 --> 00:06:12,660
We have indeed, for killing people.

52
00:06:12,660 --> 00:06:17,940
The round thing at the top is obviously the sight.

53
00:06:18,260 --> 00:06:19,460
It works by electricity.

54
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,860
There's a battery in the handle, and it fires a small dart.

55
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,000
And the dart itself, when it strikes the target,

56
00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:35,160
does the target know that he's been hit and about to die?

57
00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:42,240
A special one was developed which potentially would be able to enter the target without perception.

58
00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:46,640
As a murder instrument, that's about as efficient as you can get, isn't it?

59
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,140
It is a weapon, a very serious weapon.

60
00:06:51,300 --> 00:06:54,980
But also the toxin itself would not appear in the autopsy?

61
00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:55,740
Yes.

62
00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,540
So that there was no way of perceiving that the target was hit.

63
00:07:00,540 --> 00:07:04,860
I think the first time that I seriously questioned anything

64
00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:09,120
that was more than I just couldn't take it anymore

65
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,660
was when I came across this document.

66
00:07:11,780 --> 00:07:13,620
It was eyes only.

67
00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:18,500
It was to my boss, but he only had one hand and a hook in the other hand,

68
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,020
so I always opened all of his mail, his packages, and so forth.

69
00:07:21,660 --> 00:07:23,800
And this one, he wasn't in the office.

70
00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:24,960
I opened it, and I read it.

71
00:07:24,980 --> 00:07:25,780
It said eyes only.

72
00:07:25,860 --> 00:07:28,700
I wanted to read it because I wasn't supposed to probably.

73
00:07:29,300 --> 00:07:34,560
And it was a report about a mission where they had blown up a bridge in Asia somewhere,

74
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,400
and they had killed a number of women and children

75
00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,560
who were on their way to market that morning.

76
00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:46,980
It was reported as though they were really proud, mission accomplished.

77
00:07:48,260 --> 00:07:49,840
That one bothered me a lot.

78
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:56,820
When my boss came in, I gave him his mail, and I mentioned this, and I said,

79
00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:58,340
this is wrong.

80
00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,080
These women hadn't done anything.

81
00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,340
These children didn't deserve to die.

82
00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:04,300
Why did we do that?

83
00:08:04,420 --> 00:08:07,760
And he said, that's the fortunes of war.

84
00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,360
And I said, but we're not at war.

85
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,940
We're certainly not at war in that country.

86
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:13,300
Why did we do that?

87
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:14,560
I don't understand it.

88
00:08:15,180 --> 00:08:16,660
And he said, well, you're very young.

89
00:08:16,740 --> 00:08:18,560
When you get older, you'll understand those things.

90
00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:28,400
I think probably all of us became addicted to the danger, to the intrigue.

91
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:32,640
It was living a fantasy.

92
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,620
It was actually living a fantasy and being on the inside.

93
00:08:36,620 --> 00:08:43,900
And it was very hard to leave, even though I felt that they did wrong,

94
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,260
and I would never, ever work for an agency like that now,

95
00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:52,500
because I realized that it wasn't because I was a child or I was so young.

96
00:08:52,580 --> 00:08:54,320
It was because it was wrong.

97
00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,040
But at the time, it was really exciting.

98
00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,960
After that, there was no other job I could have ever again in my life

99
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:04,040
that would be that exciting.

100
00:09:04,180 --> 00:09:04,780
I knew that.

101
00:09:04,780 --> 00:09:21,940
Thank you.