1
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I thought I was going to be just drawing blood, not procuring tissue from aborted fetuses.

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They partner with Planned Parenthood and they get part of the money.

3
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So I say, okay, what are you looking to supply today?

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You know, you can imagine what they would run with this, like, you're selling blood for, you know.

5
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My name's Holly O'Donnell, I'm 24 and I'm a phlebotomist and an ex-procurement technician.

6
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For those who don't know what a phlebotomist is, basically you draw blood for a living.

7
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I was looking to help the public.

8
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I mean, I'm looking to make blood draws easy for children, for people.

9
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I'm very passionate about people.

10
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I find myself, I'm very humane and very sensitive.

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I thought I was going to be just drawing blood, not procuring tissue from aborted fetuses.

12
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I basically just went on Craigslist, typed in the word phlebotomist lab technician, and I clicked the link to apply.

13
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It said procurement technician.

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I went to the website, it said STEM Express, and apply now.

15
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I applied.

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It was really short.

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It wasn't even an application.

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It was your name, your phone number.

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That was it.

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And I got an email back and I interviewed.

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And they don't even let you know in the interview what you're doing.

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STEM Express is a company that hires procurement techs to draw blood and dissect dead fetuses and sell the parts to researchers.

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They partner with Planned Parenthood and they get part of the money because we pay them to use their facilities and they get paid from it.

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They do get some kind of benefit.

25
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We were asked to procure certain tissues like brain, liver, thymus, pancreas, heart, lungs, and pretty much anything on the fetus.

26
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It's basically huge trafficking of fetal tissues.

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So I'll just take a couple minutes.

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Sure.

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And Brianna is my assistant.

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Hi.

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So.

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Oh, you're warm.

33
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I want to hang on to you.

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So I was talking to Mary about what I'm trying to offer to clinics as a procurement service and she said you know all about this.

35
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Oh, we have already a relationship with ABR.

36
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Oh, okay.

37
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Is that the sort of thing you're doing?

38
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It's a startup.

39
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Uh-huh.

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So there's already a service there.

41
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I'm thinking with my business head that.

42
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I've been using them for over 10 years, really a long time.

43
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Okay.

44
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So I just kind of renegotiate the contract.

45
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They're doing the, I can't remember what they call it, but the big collection for government level collections and things like that.

46
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Okay.

47
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So I'm trying to think of other providers in town.

48
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So I don't want to sound like a salesman here, but I'm going to.

49
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Okay.

50
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So we return a portion of our fees to the clinic.

51
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Oh.

52
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So just to, as a way of thank you for this.

53
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Uh-huh.

54
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Um, just trying to establish.

55
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Right.

56
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Get a toe.

57
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Yes.

58
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Yes.

59
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Make it sound, make it flush.

60
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Right.

61
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All right.

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I'm not looking for a compassionate individual at all.

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They were just looking for someone who could get as much money, as many samples.

64
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I think that's why they were interested in me as a phlebotomist, because I can draw quick.

65
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So I think that they looked at that, and they wanted someone who could get the numbers up.

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The owner, Kate Dyer, she used to be a procurement tech, and then she went and started her own business.

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And now she's making a lot of money based off the poor girls who half the time don't even want to get abortions.

68
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It's a pretty sick company.

69
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Okay, so I'd like, what, what would, uh, what would you expect for intact, uh, tissue?

70
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What, what sort of compensation?

71
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What sort of?

72
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Well, why don't you start by telling me where you're used to paying.

73
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Okay.

74
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I don't think so.

75
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I, I'd like to, I would like to know what would make you happy.

76
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What would work for you?

77
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Well, you know in negotiations a person who throws out the figure first is at a loss, right?

78
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So.

79
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You, no.

80
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I, I don't look at it that way.

81
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I know.

82
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You want to play that game, I get it.

83
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I love the games.

84
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I just don't want to lowball, because I'm used to low things from.

85
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You know what, um, uh, if you lowball, I'll, I'll act pleasantly surprised and you'll know

86
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it's a lowball.

87
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Okay.

88
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What I want to know is, uh, what would, what would work for you?

89
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Don't lowball it.

90
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Okay.

91
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Tell me what you really.

92
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Seven dollars is present.

93
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Seven dollars is present.

94
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For whatever we could procure, they would get a certain percentage.

95
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The main nurse was always trying to make sure that we got our specimens.

96
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No one else really cared, but the main nurse did because she knew that Planned Parenthood

97
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was getting compensated.

98
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So she wanted to make sure that everything was going great for us, and it was going great

99
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for them, and for us, and it was going great for them.

100
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And are we agreed that $100 would keep you happy?

101
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Well, let me agree to find out from other families in California what they're getting,

102
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and if they're getting substantially more, then we can discuss it with.

103
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Yes.

104
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And if this is in the ballpark, then that's fine.

105
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If it's still low, then we can talk about that.

106
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I want a Lamborghini.

107
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I said, I want a Lamborghini.

108
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Don't we all, right?

109
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Yeah, exactly.

110
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There was one instance where I know that one of the girls was working at the clinic.

111
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And she was anti-abortion, but I'm not sure why she was working there.

112
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And she knew that I communicated with the staff, like, I need this specimen so I can get this.

113
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And there were times when she would always get rid of it before I could.

114
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And I would always ask her, I'm like, hey, I just told you I needed that.

115
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And she's like, oh, I forgot.

116
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And she did it on purpose all the time.

117
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And I went to the manager and I'm like, hey, this girl keeps throwing away my specimen.

118
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And she's like, let me talk to her.

119
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And I remember her talking and she's like, we need them here.

120
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Like, you need to let them have their specimens.

121
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But she was pretty adamant about it.

122
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She was trying to tell the staff, like, you need to listen to the text.

123
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Like, you know, Planned Parenthood needs compensation.

124
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The harder and the more valuable the tissue, the more money you get.

125
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So if you're, if you can somehow procure a brain or a heart, you're going to get more money than just, like, chorionic villi or umbilical cord.

126
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That's basically what it is.

127
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So that, I guess that's an incentive to try and get the hard stuff to get more money.

128
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So I remember my first day, I was at the Concord Clinic.

129
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And it was very early in the morning.

130
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I was with one of my trainers.

131
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And I walk in, I meet the staff, and I look over in the corner and there's a little, it's a little light tray with pie dishes on it.

132
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I'm like, hmm, okay.

133
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And then I see someone come in with a bottle of something and there was blood in it.

134
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I'm like, okay.

135
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And then they, they went over to the sink and they emptied it out on a strainer and put it on the pie dish and lit it up.

136
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And, and I'm like looking like, what's going on?

137
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And my trainer comes over and she, she puts on gloves and she grabs some, some tweezers and she's picking the parts away from the vaginal tissue.

138
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And I'm, I've never had anxiety before this at all.

139
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So I'm looking and I don't know what's going on.

140
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I had no idea this was what was going to be happening, especially my first day.

141
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And she's literally, she has tweezers and she's like, okay, well, this is a head.

142
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This is the arm.

143
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This is a leg.

144
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And she goes, she hands them over.

145
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Oh, here you go.

146
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,760
Can you show me some of the parts I just showed you?

147
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And I grabbed the tweezers.

148
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I'm like, cause I didn't want to lose this job.

149
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I didn't know.

150
00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,760
Um, I was already stoked to get it.

151
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:58,760
So I just, I did what she said in the moment I took the tweezers, I put them in the dish.

152
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I remember grabbing a leg and I said, this is the leg.

153
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And the moment I picked it up, I could just feel like death and pain.

154
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Like I've never felt that before, like shoot up through my body.

155
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And I started to, I blacked out basically.

156
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They got the, the smelling, the smelling salt.

157
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,760
I woke up in the recovery room and looking around, I was really embarrassed.

158
00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,760
You know, who pains to their first job.

159
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,760
And when nurses looks at me, it's like, oh, new, you're new, huh?

160
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:30,760
I'm like, yeah, don't worry.

161
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,760
It still happens to a bunch of us.

162
00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:33,760
I'm like, really?

163
00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:35,760
It's like, yeah, some of us don't ever get over it.

164
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And I remember leaving that day.

165
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Like, what have I got myself into?

166
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:41,760
So would you call that intact?

167
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These are intact kidneys.

168
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:43,760
Yes.

169
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If somebody needed.

170
00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:46,760
Cause if I looked at that, I'd be like, that's good to go.

171
00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:47,760
Oh yeah.

172
00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:48,760
Yeah.

173
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:49,760
Yeah.

174
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:50,760
Yeah.

175
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Five stars.

176
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:52,760
Yeah.

177
00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,760
I mean, you can, I mean, you could start a neural cell culture from this, from this

178
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:56,760
neural tissue right here.

179
00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,760
Like, would someone want that?

180
00:09:58,760 --> 00:09:59,760
This?

181
00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:00,760
Yeah.

182
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:01,760
Yeah.

183
00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:02,760
Yeah.

184
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:03,760
Oh yeah.

185
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:04,760
Yeah.

186
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,760
Someone would, someone would definitely, this is definitely, this is, this is, this is

187
00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,760
neural tissue that people could take and look and you see how it's still connected

188
00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:11,760
through the spinal cord back there.

189
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:12,760
Do we just send that all together?

190
00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:13,760
And they pick it out?

191
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:14,760
You could actually.

192
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:15,760
Yeah.

193
00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:16,760
Yeah.

194
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,760
Some people, some people prefer that actually, because it keeps it a little more protected.

195
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:21,760
Yeah.

196
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,760
That 11.6 was pretty good.

197
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:24,760
There was, yeah.

198
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,760
I mean, there was like three or four samples we could have taken out of the 11.6.

199
00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,760
So that would be, you know, if we were doing like, you know, 50 to 75 per specimen, that

200
00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:34,760
would be like 200, 300.

201
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:35,760
Right.

202
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:36,760
And we'd be comfortable with that.

203
00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,760
But like, so it's like stuff like this, like we don't want to be like just a flat fee

204
00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,760
of like 200 and then, you know, it's like.

205
00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:43,760
No.

206
00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:49,760
And you know, the, I, I think the, I think the per item thing works a little better just

207
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:52,760
because we can see how much we can get out of it.

208
00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:59,760
It's really just about if anyone were ever to ask them, well, what do you do for this

209
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:00,760
$60?

210
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:01,760
How can you justify that?

211
00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:06,760
You know, or are you basically just doing something completely egregious that you should

212
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:07,760
be keeping for free?

213
00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,760
I think for affiliates, the end of the day, they're a nonprofit.

214
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,760
They just don't want to, they want to break even.

215
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,760
And, and if they can do a little better than break even and do so in a, in a way that,

216
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,760
you know, seems reasonable, they're happy to do it.

217
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,760
Yes.

218
00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,760
I think this is definitely to be continued.

219
00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:27,760
Definitely.

220
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,760
She told me, it's like, it's not an option.

221
00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,760
Like, it's a demand.

222
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:58,760
That's what your job is.

223
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,760
There are times where they would just take what they want.

224
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,760
And these mothers don't know.

225
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:10,760
And there's no way they would know.

226
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:18,760
When you first go to the clinic, what you do in SimExpress is you go to the head nurse

227
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,760
and you tell them if there's something you need.

228
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:25,760
So let's say that day I needed a certain gestated fetus.

229
00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:29,760
So let's say I need a 15 week fetus for some reason.

230
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,760
So I go, I'm like, hey, I'm looking for a 15 week fetus today.

231
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,760
If, could you let your staff know?

232
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:35,760
It's like, oh yeah, we'll let you know.

233
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,760
Each Procurement Tech usually has an assigned clinic that you want to build a relationship

234
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:42,760
with at your Planned Parenthood.

235
00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,760
Because, you know, you have to have really good communication.

236
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,760
So Megan was at B Street with Sarah.

237
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:51,760
Jessica had San Jose of Alameda.

238
00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,760
I had Stockton and Fresno.

239
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,760
Fresno was in actually an alley.

240
00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:01,760
The areas like Fresno where it's dirt cheap and the area is not good.

241
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,760
There were so many, so many.

242
00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,760
I went to work for eight hours and there would be 40 something patients.

243
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:10,760
It really wore me down.

244
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:11,760
It's the environment.

245
00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:12,760
It's, it's morbid.

246
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:13,760
Like you can feel it.

247
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,760
You can hear, you can hear screaming.

248
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:17,760
You can hear crying.

249
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,760
Like, so they give you a sheet and it's, it's, um, everybody for that day.

250
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:30,760
Who's coming in for an ultrasound, who's coming in for an abortion, medical or late term abortion.

251
00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:37,760
And we basically walk around the clinic and make sure that we, that we have time.

252
00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:38,760
We, we consent them.

253
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,760
We take them in the room or meet them in the chair.

254
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:50,760
Some women can, they come in, they do a test and then you find out they're pregnant.

255
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,760
Then you can consent them.

256
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,760
So pregnancy tests are potential pregnancies.

257
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,760
They're for potential specimens.

258
00:13:57,760 --> 00:14:01,760
So it's just taking, taking advantage of the opportunities.

259
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:08,760
The, the fetus, the fetal tissues remains is, is a POC, which stands for product of conception.

260
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,760
The specimen is what I would obtain from it.

261
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,760
So POC, product of conception specimen is what I would procure.

262
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:21,760
I would set up my laptop and then you would log into the task page, log into AIM Instant Messenger.

263
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,760
You would go get the gestation sheet from the head nurse.

264
00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,760
And you would see how many opportunities you have on the sheet.

265
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,760
So then you would report that.

266
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:35,760
The task page would just list the tissue, where it's to be sent.

267
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,760
And then the number of specimens and equal.

268
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,760
And so we all had access to edit that page.

269
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:52,760
So if there was, they said we needed a liver, 17 weeks, John Hopkins or Stanford, Berkeley, whatever it was.

270
00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,760
And it said specimen.

271
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,760
So if I got that, I would put my initial.

272
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,760
So I'd edit it, put one HO.

273
00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,760
So that way if we needed one, that's already cleared for that day.

274
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,760
Everybody would log in and you would say, oh, there are 24 appointments today.

275
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,760
10 tissue opportunities.

276
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,760
8 blood sample opportunities.

277
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,760
First patient at 8.

278
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,760
So then I would wait for certain girls to come in.

279
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,760
I would look for an opportunity to consent.

280
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,760
So that would mean like after they go in, they get registered as a nurse, go sit down.

281
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,760
That would be a great opportunity for me to, hey, can I talk to you for a second?

282
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,760
Come in, shut the door.

283
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:35,760
Stem Express.

284
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:36,760
I had a consent form.

285
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,760
We'd have to initial, you know, I'm certified.

286
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:41,760
I'm donating.

287
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,760
I know I'm not going to be reimbursed or be compensated.

288
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,760
I know this is for disease research.

289
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,760
I'm consent.

290
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,760
I've already consented that I'm going to get an abortion.

291
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,760
Yeah.

292
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:55,760
No.

293
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:56,760
That doesn't happen all the time.

294
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,760
Some of these women don't know if they're going to get an abortion.

295
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,760
Some of them don't even, they're not 100% they're going to get it done.

296
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:04,760
Didn't know a lot about Dr. Berman.

297
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,760
This other than he worked for Planned Parenthood.

298
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,760
There were actually comments made about him.

299
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,760
He had a reputation for going viciously fast.

300
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,760
Like if we didn't watch him, we would lose our specimens.

301
00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,760
It was that fast.

302
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,760
If there wasn't a girl in the room, he would get mad.

303
00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:27,760
He would pace the hallways if there wasn't something to do.

304
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:32,760
Like, it's like, it's almost like he wanted to do it.

305
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,760
And that, that made me really concerned.

306
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,760
And how fast he was going with these women.

307
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,760
And I felt bad.

308
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,760
Like there was a few times to where he was working and I had a girl who did not want to get it.

309
00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,760
But she, you know, she felt she had to.

310
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,760
I wanted to tell her, do not go to this clinic.

311
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:55,760
When I imagine, because I've seen abortions.

312
00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:00,760
I imagine him literally going into the room.

313
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,760
Lifting the covers.

314
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,760
Going in, grabbing, and walking out.

315
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:07,760
Like that's how fast it is.

316
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,760
It's ridiculous.

317
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,760
I was the only person who was a licensed CPT-1.

318
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:15,760
A licensed quad mean technician.

319
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,760
Um, but the other individuals were drawing blood.

320
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:20,760
Um, in the clinics.

321
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,760
The co-workers I had.

322
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:27,760
Um, they were just, they would not consent the, the donors.

323
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,760
If there was a higher gestation.

324
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,760
And the technicians needed it.

325
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,760
There were times where they would just take what they wanted.

326
00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:41,760
And these mothers don't know.

327
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,760
And there's no way they would know.

328
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,760
There were times where, I remember one time it was the Fresno clinic.

329
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,760
And that was the most high volume clinic we have.

330
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,760
Lots of abortions.

331
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:50,760
Lots.

332
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:56,760
And, um, I had a very distated woman that was a LAMS patient.

333
00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,760
So, LAMS patients, it's a two day process.

334
00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,760
So, they take a certain material.

335
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:03,760
They come in.

336
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,760
They insert it into the uterus to expand it.

337
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,760
And then you come the next day, they take it out so they can extract the fetus.

338
00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,760
So, I consented her.

339
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:13,760
And she said no.

340
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:14,760
And I was, I'm fine with that.

341
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,760
I'm not going to impress anybody.

342
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:20,760
I'm not going to consent a girl who's throwing up from the abortion medication.

343
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:21,760
That's not who I am.

344
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,760
And, uh, she, she said no.

345
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:26,760
And the next day, Jessica came.

346
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,760
And she's like, oh, that, you know, that high ingestated girl.

347
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,760
Do you have to get her?

348
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:33,760
Make sure you get her.

349
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:34,760
I'm like, oh, I already consented her yesterday.

350
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:35,760
She's not comfortable.

351
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,760
And she looked at me, like, okay.

352
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:40,760
Walked out.

353
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,760
Took her into the room.

354
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:43,760
And she came back out.

355
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,760
And she was holding all these tubes.

356
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,760
And all I said to her was, what do you say to her to get that blood?

357
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,760
She's like, nothing.

358
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:59,760
I'm like, so basically you just went in there and took her blood and you're going to be taking

359
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,760
her fetus without her knowing.

360
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,760
So, yeah, I'm not, it's, it's just, that's terrifying.

361
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:10,760
Like, imagine if you were an abortion patient and someone was going in and stealing your

362
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:11,760
baby's parts.

363
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:16,760
And half of these women are already on edge as it is.

364
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,760
You know, so it's, it's just, it's terrible.

365
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:25,760
The women I worked for were cold, cold.

366
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:26,760
It's cold.

367
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:27,760
They don't care.

368
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,760
They just wanted their money.

369
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:29,760
They didn't care.

370
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,760
The girls stowing up in the trash can, crying.

371
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:39,760
Um, and even there are times to when patients would ask me, like, they would come in and

372
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:40,760
be crying.

373
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,760
Like, should I do this?

374
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:43,760
Should I be doing this?

375
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:50,760
And what, from my personal view, I'm very pro-life and I would tell them like, run, like,

376
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,760
go, like, you'll figure something out.

377
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:53,760
You don't want to do this.

378
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,760
Like, if you don't want to do this, go home.

379
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,760
And I would get in trouble for that.

380
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,760
If I get in trouble, Jessica would say, why don't you consent her?

381
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:07,760
Like, because she was crying and throwing up and she didn't even know if she wants to

382
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:08,760
get it done.

383
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:09,760
What'd you say to her?

384
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:15,760
I told her she didn't, if she wasn't comfortable with it, then I'm not gonna do anything.

385
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,760
She said, well, that, that was an opportunity you just missed.

386
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:26,760
Like, I'm not gonna, I'm just, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna tell a girl to kill her babies

387
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:27,760
so I can get money.

388
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,760
And that's what this company does.

389
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:32,760
Straight up, that's what this company does.

390
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:38,760
My job was to go there and get blood and tissue parts.

391
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,760
Like, it wasn't presented as an option, really.

392
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,760
Like, from my boss, the words of Sarah, it's not.

393
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:52,760
Like, she told me, he's like, it's not an option.

394
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,760
Like, it's a demand.

395
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,760
That's what your job is.

396
00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:01,760
I said, I'm not gonna draw, I'm not gonna push them over the edge when they're already

397
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:02,760
on the edge.

398
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,760
Like, there's a reason why they keep journals in the recovery room.

399
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:12,760
Like, if abortion, abortion was a good thing, there wouldn't be such, so much emotional damage

400
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:13,760
from it.

401
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:14,760
End of story.

402
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:21,760
I would take my sample, I'd put it in a tube, I would label it with a specimen sticker.

403
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:27,760
I would take it back to the room, update the task page, put, you know, one or two, how

404
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,760
many I got that day.

405
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:36,760
And, uh, I'd fill out the paperwork on my computer, print it out at the lab, and that's

406
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:37,760
what I would do all day.

407
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,760
And then at the end of the day, I would put everything in a FedEx package, and I would

408
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,760
have to drive to a FedEx and drop off the specimen.

409
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:55,760
The sad thing is people would ask what was in the box, and I didn't know what to say.

410
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:59,760
Like, oh, there's, there's dead baby parts in there.

411
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:25,760
So, for example, so I had eight cases yesterday, and I knew exactly what we needed, and I kind

412
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:30,760
of looked at the list, and I said, alright, this 17-weeker has eight grams, and this we

413
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:31,760
have.

414
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:35,760
So I knew which were the cases that were probably more likely to yield what we needed, and I

415
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,760
made my decisions according to that, too.

416
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:39,760
So it's worth having a huddle at the beginning of the day.

417
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:40,760
Uh-huh.

418
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:41,760
And that's what I do.

419
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:57,760
I never did, but I think I've witnessed some of the other technicians work with the doctors.

420
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,760
I remember I was all my day off, and I went on my laptop, and Ann popped up, and they were

421
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:12,760
working, and I saw a message saying that the doctor had aborted a fully intact fetus.

422
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:13,760
Fully intact.

423
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,760
And they, there, and some express was sending us straight to the lab.

424
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,760
I literally have had women come in, and they'll go to the OR, and they're back out in three

425
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,760
minutes, and I'm going, what's going on?

426
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,760
Oh yeah, the fetus was already in the vaginal canal whenever we put her in syrups.

427
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:27,760
Wow.

428
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:28,760
It just fell out.

429
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:41,760
Yeah, and so if we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, then

430
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:48,760
we can make it part of the budget that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens

431
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,760
into different shipments is this.

432
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:51,760
Mm-hmm.

433
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,760
I mean, that's, it's all just a matter of line items.

434
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,760
Mm-hmm.

435
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,760
Usually they want both hemispheres intact with the brainstem, which usually doesn't happen.

436
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,760
They'll take like an 80% intact or 70% intact, and you'll have to contact them and see if

437
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,760
that would be okay.

438
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:07,760
Okay.

439
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:12,760
Then a re-limiting step of the procedure is calvarium.

440
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,760
Calvarium, the head is basically the biggest part.

441
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,760
Most of the other stuff can come out on tap.

442
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:19,760
Right.

443
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,760
It's very rare to have patients that have enough diet to evacuate both of the others.

444
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,760
To bring them, excuse me, to bring the body cavity out.

445
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:26,760
Exactly.

446
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,760
And with the calvarium, in general, some people will actually try to change the presentation

447
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:38,760
so that it's not vertex, but when it's a vertex presentation, you never have enough dilation

448
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,760
within the end of your case unless you have a real huge amount of dilation to deliver an

449
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,760
intact calvarium.

450
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:43,760
Right.

451
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,760
So if you do it starting from the breech presentation, there's dilation that happens as the case

452
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,760
goes on, and often at the last you can evacuate an intact calvarium.

453
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:53,760
Mm-hmm.

454
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,760
There are certainly steps that can be taken.

455
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,760
So they can convert to breech, for example, at the start of the exam.

456
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:58,760
Exactly.

457
00:24:58,760 --> 00:24:59,760
Exactly.

458
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:00,760
I'm going for ultrasound guidance.

459
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,760
They can just change the presentation.

460
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:03,760
Okay.

461
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:09,760
I was training with Jessica in the Alameda, and I've been doing it for a few weeks, so I

462
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:12,760
kind of knew what I was doing, but kind of not.

463
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,760
And I was really busy, and one of the doctors came in, and she looked really frustrated.

464
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,760
The medical assistants were with her, and I also might be able to listen and see what's

465
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,760
going on, and the doctor just says, if she can't calm down, I can't do the abortion.

466
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,760
Like, and I can't medicate her.

467
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:29,760
Something like that.

468
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,760
And she was just distraught.

469
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:39,760
The other thing that plays a tremendous part in this all is the dilation.

470
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:40,760
Exactly.

471
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:41,760
That you've obtained.

472
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:42,760
Exactly.

473
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:48,760
And also how cooperative the patient is during the procedure.

474
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:54,760
Finally, the woman, she calmed down, and the doctor went in to perform the abortion.

475
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,760
It takes a little while, and I'm in the hallway.

476
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,760
I see the jar come out.

477
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:07,760
It goes into the path lab, and Jessica, I can hear, is preparing it.

478
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:13,760
Rinsing out the jar, rinsing out the linen wrapping that catches it.

479
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Bumping it in the strainer, rinsing it off, putting water in the pie dish, and getting it

480
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:20,760
ready for the doctor.

481
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:21,760
So then I hear her call.

482
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,760
My name is, hey Ollie, come over here.

483
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,760
I want you to see something kind of cool.

484
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:25,760
It's kind of neat.

485
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,760
So I'm over here, and this is, the moment I see it, I'm just flabbergasted.

486
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:39,760
This is the most gestated fetus and closest thing to a baby I've seen.

487
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,760
And she's like, okay, I want to show you something.

488
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,760
So she has one of her instruments, and she just taps the heart, and it starts beating.

489
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:53,760
And I'm sitting here, and I'm looking at this fetus, and its heart is beating.

490
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,760
And I don't know what to think.

491
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,760
Is there still circulation in the heart once you isolate it?

492
00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,760
No.

493
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:08,760
You know, there are kinds of ways, after procedures, that the heart actually is still beating.

494
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,760
They induce fetal demise at about 20 weeks, 18 to 20 weeks.

495
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,760
And so they inject digoxin into the fetus.

496
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:16,760
Right, right.

497
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,760
I was actually going to ask you about that, because I want to make sure there's no digoxin

498
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:20,760
on myself.

499
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,760
No, no, no, no, no.

500
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,760
I don't use digoxin, use it for one of two reasons.

501
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,760
There is a group of people who just use it so that they have no risk of violating the

502
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:27,760
federal abortion ban.

503
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:34,760
If you induce a demise before you do the procedure, nobody's going to say you did a live, whatever

504
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:39,760
the federal government calls it, partial birth abortion.

505
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,760
Whenever you're talking about fully intact fetuses in the context of fetal tissue procurement,

506
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,760
those are situations where no feticide, like digoxin or potassium chloride, no chemical like

507
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,760
that can be used to kill the fetus beforehand because that poisons the organs and the tissues.

508
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:53,760
Yeah.

509
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,760
And so in that case, it's prima facie evidence of born alive infant cases.

510
00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:58,760
And it's like, you know why that's happening?

511
00:27:58,760 --> 00:27:59,760
And I knew why it was happening.

512
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,760
It's because the electrical current was, the nodes were still firing.

513
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:11,760
And I don't know if that constitutes, it's technically dead or it's alive.

514
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,760
It had a face.

515
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,760
It wasn't completely torn up and its nose was very pronounced.

516
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:24,760
It's, it had eyelids and its mouth was pronounced.

517
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:32,760
And then since the fetus was so intact, she said, okay, well, this is a really good fetus

518
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,760
and it looks like we can procure a lot from it.

519
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,760
Um, we're going to procure a brain.

520
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:45,760
So I, the moment I heard something like that means we're going to have to cut the head open.

521
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,760
We're going to have to cut the head open.

522
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,760
So it's like, okay, so what you do is you go through the face.

523
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,760
I'm thinking, no, I don't want to do this.

524
00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:01,760
And she takes the scissors and she makes a small incision right here and goes, I would

525
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,760
say to maybe a little bit through the mouth.

526
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,760
And she's like, okay, can you go the rest of the way?

527
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:13,760
And I'm like, yes.

528
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,760
And I didn't want to do this.

529
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:23,760
And so she gave me the scissors and told me that I have to cut down the middle of the

530
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,760
face.

531
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:35,760
And I can't even like describe like what that feels like.

532
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:44,760
And I remember picking it up and finishing going through the rest of the face and Jessica

533
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:51,760
picking up the brain and putting it in the container with the media and para-filming

534
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:52,760
it.

535
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,760
And she left and she's like, okay, you can clean it up.

536
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,760
And I'm just, I'm just sitting there like, what did I just do?

537
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,760
And that was the moment I knew I couldn't work for the company anymore.

538
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,760
And I, that was still, it was, even if it's going to be good, if that could have been the

539
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,760
cure for some kind of disease, then I wish, even if it was, I wish I still wouldn't have

540
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:13,760
done it.

541
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:15,760
I don't want to be that person.

542
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:24,760
And I remember picking, it was a male, I remember picking him up with the gloves cause it was

543
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:25,760
too, it was too heavy.

544
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,760
The pie dish was this and he was big, like the pie dish and I couldn't like take it and

545
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:32,760
put it in the strainer and put it in.

546
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,760
Like I couldn't, it was just too big.

547
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:41,760
And I opened the biohazard container and it's almost full.

548
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:42,760
Like it's almost full.

549
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,760
I'm holding him in my hands and like, oh my God, this is just, what am I doing?

550
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:59,760
And I take him, I put him in and I remember he got stuck on the lid and it turned around

551
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:05,760
and his buttocks was in the air and his two feet were like dangling out.

552
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,760
And I remember having to pick each one of his feet up and put them in the container and

553
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,760
close the lid.

554
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,760
And that was the hardest experience I've had there.

555
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:26,760
I remember holding that fetus in my hands when everybody else was busy and started crying

556
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,760
and opened the lid and put it back in.

557
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,760
It's just really hard knowing that you're the only person who's ever going to hold that

558
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:37,760
baby.

559
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,760
It's weird cause I always think of all these scenarios could happen.

560
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,760
Like, I held it and I'm like, man, this could have grown up to be.

561
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,760
And I always think about things like that.

562
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,760
Like this could be a lawyer, this could be a firefighter, this could be the next president.

563
00:31:55,760 --> 00:32:00,760
Like I wonder what, cause you can tell the sex sometimes.

564
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,760
Like I wonder if this, like what it would like.

565
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:11,760
Like I can imagine like, I wonder at age three if, you know, she would like the color.

566
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,760
Or things like that, you know, I wonder what it would look like.

567
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:15,760
Or mom or her dad.

568
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,760
Or things like that.

569
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,760
I feel like it's a waste of life.

570
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:24,760
Like, and it's sad that so many people view it as a mistake.

571
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,760
You know, cause it's, it's not.

572
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:30,760
I mean, life isn't a mistake.

573
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:37,760
I mean, getting pregnant can, it can be an accident, but it's not a mistake.

574
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,760
But that's not a mistake.

575
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:41,760
But I feel better to notice.

576
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:42,760
Like this isn't that bad.

577
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:43,760
Other issues.

578
00:32:43,760 --> 00:33:05,660
I feel like A ESTAM