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A warm welcome to the technology day of the Stockholm Security Conference and the session on the Human Mind as a battlefield.

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I'm Sibilabel, the director of studies for our moment and disarmament here at Sibilibis Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

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And for those of you joining for the first time, we have four dramatic days of the Stockholm Security Conference.

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Yesterday we focused on international law. Tomorrow it will be strategies and doctrines and on Thursday we will focus on the protection of Sibilibis and we will be concluding the conference with a peace price ceremony in Ipa Belton, which will connect the battlefields of the past with the battlefields of the future.

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Today we have one more session which will be on current trends in missile technology and missile proliferation which will be just after this month.

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But now on to the Human Mind and just like the quantum technology sessions earlier today, we will now zoom in on one technology area and explore applications for current warfare and for future warfare.

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And like quantum, it's a very complex, it's a very fast moving area with many interconnections to different technologies.

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And many of us in the arms control community have come across terms like brain hacking, neural and human announcement, super soldiers, brain computing, to faces.

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Some of it we've seen science fiction movies, some of it we've heard about in the real world and we're trying to make sense of it.

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And trying to figure out what's high, what I'm missing, what of the applications that we think are science fiction actually real and where is it the other way around.

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So we are very lucky to have with us today one of the world's leading experts on this issue.

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And I should also say that unfortunately Professor Nahl had to cancel his participation this morning due to unforeseen and unforeseen or circumstances.

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But we have with us Professor Jodano who could actually feel all day and actually all week I believe on this topic.

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So there'll be plenty to explore in the next hour or so.

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I'll just say if he words about his background.

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So he is Professor of neurology, eyeochemistry and ethics at Georgetown University.

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And also a bioethicist of the Defense Medical Ethics Center.

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He's a fellow both at the US Naval Academy of the Naval War College and science advisory fellow of the joint staff at the Pentagon and direct of the Institute for Bio-Defense Research and has written many books and articles on this subject.

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So I'm sure you look really with me that we are very lucky to have him with us at this session.

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So Dr Professor Jodano will first give an introductory presentation about the state of play current potential future military applications.

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And then there will be a chance for you to ask questions.

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I would ask you for that to use the Q&A function and not to use it for statements, please only put in questions.

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And I will then roll that pool of questions and put them to the Q&A section.

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But with that now, over to you, Jim.

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Thank you very much, Ms. Bauer. And so again, thank you to each and all of you for having me here.

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It's a privilege and an honor to present it this forum.

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And I think the title of the forum is very important.

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I mean, not just the brain or the mind as the 21st century battlescape, but also the implications of what current science and technology can do the way it may be used.

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The way it most likely will be used and what that infers for senses of preparedness readiness and sustainability for peace, particularly given the very influential role that the brain mind will play in a variety of subtle influences in the way we think, feel and act.

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And perhaps a larger question is what needs to be done in terms of multinational engagement guidance and oversight.

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So as to maintain an ethical course forward, while being very realistic and appreciating the multinational nature of the enterprise.

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If we consider neuroscience and technology to be ever more a unified entity, colloquially, we refer to this as neuro-SNT.

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And the reason for that is quite simple in that there is a relative inseparability between the science that is to say the understanding and insights of the game.

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To the mechanisms of the nervous system and the brain and what that infers for the functions of brain, most broadly construed to be mind.

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But perhaps more metaphysically, if not practically construed to be identity, self decisions, feelings and the expression of same in a variety of interactions from the personal to the political.

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But over in above that is that this science has given the ability to assess the brain, access the brain and to affect the brain.

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And the science has been capable of by an increasing tool set, a tool kit set of technologies.

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Those technologies have allowed us to advance certain theoretical constructs about the brain, but have also taken us to the limit of our capabilities to assess and affect the brain and therefore have prompted the development of new tools.

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But that affords us is the actual capability to harness and engage neuroscience in its technologies.

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And what has increasingly become known as integrative scientific convergence, relative decilowing of the physical, natural life and social sciences.

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In those ways that provide a more three-dimensional understanding of what the brain and its functions are and how the brain and its functions can be assessed, accessed and affected.

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And the nature of those effects and that assessment, I think most probably, is aimed at what I would consider to be the quote low-hanging fruit.

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In other words, much of the driver of contemporary neuroscience and technology is aimed at biomedical purposes, if you will, relatively benevolent and wanting to do good to improve the human condition, to reduce the human predicament of disease.

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Injury and perhaps even the frailty is that our consequence of our finitude and aging.

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But please understand to paraphrase the works of philosopher Alistair McIntyre, we have to ask, what good, which rationale, is justice.

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What we may see, whoever the proverbial we are, as being a viable good, can also be seen in certain ways as providing inequities in equalities or in some cases, frank engagements, harms and burdens to others.

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But over and above that understand if we can use any science and technology for definable good means.

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It really is only a case of how we define good.

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And then whether or not that science and technology can be used in a way that is withheld from others to prevent them from accessing those goods and enjoying those goods.

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Or it can be inferred in as a consequence, be used to incur burdens, risks and harm to others.

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So what we can see is that by understanding the brain and its processes it gives us the capability of affecting human activities, the individual group and perhaps even population levels.

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And these effects can influence a variety of postures, including postures towards peace, postures of vulnerability and volatility.

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Postures of violence and bellicosity.

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And of course, I think it becomes critical to understand that like any science and technology throughout human history.

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The capability, the potential and the allure of using cutting edge science and technology in ways that could be leveraged.

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Now, variety of competitive engagements from the economic all the way to the bellicose is a reality.

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So if we consider those ways that these realities are enacted, we must understand the existing domains in which neuroscience and technologies are employed in what was formally referred to as NSID applications, national security intelligence and defense operations.

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Well, there's a bit of a misnomer with that because in some ways it white washes the scenario.

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Perhaps more appropriate is to understand how neuroscience is in their technologies can be employed in warfare intelligence.

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And what various collective view to be agendas and initiatives of national security, whatever nations they may be.

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Here I alluded to some of the wonderful work I had to privilege and honor of undertaking with my colleagues at the European Union and human brain projects.

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Focal group on dual use brain science and a nod of homage to my esteemed colleague professor Dr Katinka Everes of University of Uppsala in Sweden as well as any of my colleagues at what participatory in that working group.

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But I think what becomes important to understand as a consequence of some of the results of our working group deep dive is that the ability to surveil over sea guide and perhaps govern the brain sciences is highly contingent upon the understanding that these brain sciences are multinational in their enterprise and in their effect.

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And so the discourse must widen and in many cases is dialectic.

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So he's understand at this point in time there are a number of neuroscientific tools and technologies that are viable if not already uptaken into warfare intelligence and national security operations and agendas.

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Nothing I'm about to tell you science fictional it is all science fact in terms of what is currently available or is what at high technological readiness level.

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So as to made available the next two to five years.

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How can we use these techniques and technologies well again any aspect of medicine and in this case we need to consider military medicine.

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It's not just a question of what we can do to treat those members of the military when in fact they are injured or or ill.

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But what can we do preventatively.

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Here we see a graze on arising working if you will.

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So left of bang we're bang is some event that induces trauma insult injury or change can we work to the left of that.

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Can we for example employ the neuroscientism and technologies in areas of preventative military occupational medicine.

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To restore what we may consider to be hope and acronym for maintaining health.

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Instilling operational and occupational protection.

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And enabling these personnel to do their job affect those missions more capable and effectively in those ways that will enhance their survivability.

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Keep them protected and ultimately may also affect the way they interact with competitors or adversaries.

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Hope.

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H O P E.

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What are we hoping to do when we consider operational and occupational protection and enabling the combat war fighter.

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The intelligence operator.

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Military personnel of all types to do their jobs better.

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Well, this then gives rise to the idea of what constitutes optimization.

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What constitutes enhancement.

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If in fact optimization and enhancement differs from some form of treatments, particularly when healthy individuals are involved in what are the implications.

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For taking individuals beyond some stated norm.

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And is that not on one level or another.

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The implicit if not explicit goal of almost any professions training and certainly military intelligence training to be the best of the best to do those jobs well and to do them in way that provides some advantage.

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To ones own forces against other forces whoever they may be.

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Which gets us back to the idea of what is good.

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Military and or some operational national security institution organization reports to be able to protect the ideology ideals ways of life things that are held viable for kin, kith the polis or some political agency or organization.

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Then that's held as a viable good and can be used to justify the applications of these types of techniques and technologies.

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Perhaps in some of more graze own operations and neurosciences can also be paired to intelligence operations to afford increased cognitive capability for intelligence operators and systems to be linked to computational systems.

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So as to be able to discern more accurately what may be an intelligence viable signal from what may be noise.

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Whether that's a human intelligence signal intelligence communication intelligence.

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And of course the issue there becomes what are we actually doing can we also not only affect the way we perceive and gain intelligence.

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But can we use this in a proactive way.

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In other words for psychological or what's now referred to as neurocognitive operations and CEOs.

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To create more viable narratives propaganda if you will.

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To therefore create impressions experiences in others that affect them in certain ways that we now have a deeper understanding.

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Of how we can affect the brain to illicit emotional behavioral and perhaps even community and cultural responses.

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And what does that mean on one hand certainly I think that the idea.

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The intent and perhaps the hope is that by better understanding the way our brains work will gain greater insight and appreciation for those things we have in common.

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Be able to bridge our differences and in so doing facilitating improved communication to avoid the escalation to volatility.

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To reduce vulnerability and therefore to avoid violence.

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But let's not be polyanish.

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Because the reality is that these tools and techniques offer viable and in some cases estimated valuable capability to be able to assess and modify the thoughts.

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Actions and therefore overall stature of others.

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The operational definition if you will of a weapon.

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Taking from the Oxford English dictionary a weapon is simply a means of contending against others far more globally.

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We see this in Bellacose framework.

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In other words, the means to injure or impair or perhaps kill others.

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But in its strictest definition a weapon is some means of influence to turns.

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And the question that becomes can the brain's sciences be weaponized in those ways that may be less lethal or non-leaf.

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Yet their influence be overwhelmingly more powerful in that the effect of getting at the essence of what it means to be.

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The relatively inviable space of the self of identity of mind who being able to assess and perhaps control thoughts and motions and behaviors remotely.

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So doing influence postures of individuals groups collectives and perhaps populations.

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Is there some line that's being crossed there whereby this cognitive liberty is being treated upon to paraphrase the words of my colleague, me to Farahani at the University of Pennsylvania.

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Well, I think if we understand weapon in that context.

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And the brain sciences into those domains and those tools, if you will, that could be weaponized in such ways.

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Generally, we can parse these into two non-mutual exclusive interactive domains.

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The assessment neurotechnologies, which include things like various forms of neuroimaging, neurophysiological recording, neurogenomics, neurogenetics, epigenetics of phenotypics, neuro proteomics.

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And the use of neurobig data, which when coupled to decision technologies machine learning and AI, creates an omnibusk, juggernaut of capability to not only acquire data and utilize data, but also to manipulate the data itself, whereby assessment immediately can turn into effect.

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And that brings us into the realm of the interventional neurotechnologies.

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And perhaps first and foremost, if not easiest, is the ability to use extensistence of computational technology and engineering together with decision technologies, big data acquisition and use in various forms of soft to hard AI to manipulate the data themselves and by manipulating the data on large scales.

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And then, if possible, to literally paint a new reality of what an individual is.

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To implant information into large scale data banks, make individuals appear to have certain neurological or psychiatric conditions.

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To affect their capability to do their job by virtue of, if you will, their profile, their data profile.

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By affecting aspects of their metadata so that they're regarded in perhaps treated in different ways.

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Socially, well, terribly, politically, but wait, there's more.

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The more we know the further we can go, and one of the existing concerns is that the ubiquity of what's called biode data, particularly neurobiode data, creates certain vulnerabilities and target abilities to be able to create precision pathogens.

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Now, those pathogens need not be the traditional drug's bugs or toxins.

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They can also be certain devices that can be tuned to individual parameters of anthropometry, physiology to different, actually affect individuals in a variety of ways.

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To direct or compromise, their capability of thought, emotion and action.

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Putting all of these together, we see a new tool kit that essentially engages not only those domains that have been well addressed by current language of the biological toxins, weapons conventions, chemical weapons conventions and various declarations, as signature treaties.

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But in some way, side steps that, as I hope to show you, which which may, as we've called for, together with our international colleagues,

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we have to facilitate a revisiting, if not revision, of the language scope and tender of these existing conventions and treaties.

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New drugs, for example, that are able to penetrate the brain space far more cablingly, at much lower doses, for example, linking pharmaceuticals to nano engineered scaffolds, micellus,

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that allow facile penetrants into the brain space, sometimes through means that can be rather clandestine or covert, inhalation, transdermally, and doing so with higher specific, in fact, in some cases, targeting these pharmaceuticals to be able to work in key individuals,

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or groups of individuals, based upon an understanding of their pharmacogenomics and dynamics.

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Here too, we see the ability to generate novel microbiological, whether that may be bacteria, fungi, viruses,

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and increasingly, there is a worry about the potential weaponization of preons that based upon individual collective and population information,

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can be developed, so it's the high-selectivity affecting key individuals, either individually, targets of high value,

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or more globally, more universally, creating, if you will, bella co-s value and affecting relatively benign and generalizable targets, like the general population of conversation you'll have later in your conference.

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As well, we can utilize various methods of gene editing and synthetic biology to develop organic neurotoxins that are far more stable, less labile, more effective,

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and can be used with precision, particularly if and when delivered, through the variety of unmanned vehicles, aerial, ground, or sea-based.

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And a variety of technological devices that can be used to augment or change cognitive capacity.

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Things that can be dawned or daft, for example, trans-cranial magnetic and electrical stimulation, vagal nerve stimulation.

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And there is a robust move forward to create implantable devices that are non-invasive or minimally invasive in their implantation method,

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so as to create next-generation neuromodulation that allows real-time access to read from the living brain and write into the living brain remotely, such capacity.

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With this ability, I think also comes necessary and authentic anticipation and, in some cases, anxieties and apprehensions.

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Please understand that the neuroscience and the development of neurotechnology is not the provance of if you will a given few.

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At present, there are multiple large-scale, national-level brain science initiatives that are pouring billions of currency units into projects in the brain sciences.

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Again, the most notable direction of these, the driver clearly is explicit, those things that are benevolent wanting to do good, reduce the burden of human predicament and disease, injury and capability.

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But that capability curve exists along a spectrum.

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And here too, the ability to utilize the brain sciences to improve our quality of life.

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Endure to use the brain sciences in preventive ways immediately allows us to confront again the idea of occupational preventive military intelligence medicine.

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Super soldiers, proverbial super spokes for the intelligence operator.

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But recall here too, what is my good may not necessarily be your good.

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What I and my kin and kin hold to be valuable, defensible may not in fact be what your is defined to be so.

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And so the use of advancing tools, science and technology, inclusive of the brain and cognitive sciences, in those initiatives and agendas that can be used in defensive ways, or in some cases, explicitly offensive ways, to decabableize others.

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To reduce their will, their willingness, or perhaps their cognitive and physical capabilities to advance towards some level of volatility or violence is very, very real.

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But more than that, what becomes important to understand is that the underlying philosophies, ethics and topologies and therefore limitations and constraints on the brain sciences, in terms of research in their translation into various practices,

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inclusive of those that could be used for military medicine and to be used for military warfare intelligence operations, different as a consequence of culture.

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You know that large scale initiatives of the brain sciences are multinational, there's an increasing Asian effort to be sure that is explicit.

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This is advancing developed nations and giving them certain capabilities to leverage the brain sciences in and across fusions of governmental initiatives, research initiatives and commercial initiatives that it very, very least.

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And so it could leverage the brain sciences and economic ways to create new balances of power on medical markets and perhaps even lifestyle of not military markets.

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As well, what we're seeing is a rise in what has been colloquial, you're afraid to as neurohacking.

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The world community, which is not problematic per se, but is certainly vulnerable to influence and manipulation by state actors and non-state actors and the development of proxies both state and non-state proxies.

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In the global neuroscience community and do yourself community that can be manipulated in those ways to affect sovereign states through the infiltration of capabilities within those states jurisdictions, difficulty, if you will to monitor.

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For example, here in the United States, there is a direct a program with our federal Bureau of Investigation to work with the do it yourself neurohacking community in cooperation with Interpol.

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So as to maintain this stringency rigor and if you will ethical probity of that community and render them some more resistance to infiltration by various actors and agents who may have capricious if not nefarious intent.

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But I think it's also important to understand that these different cultures, different countries bring to the table different histories, different needs, different values, different philosophies and very often those histories are longstanding and these philosophies anthropologies and values established distinct ethics.

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And those ethics may be far more permissive than we, whoever we may be, would like in other cases, it affords opportunities for things like research tourism can't get it done here go there.

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Well, what does that mean is that ethics dumping or is that simply ethical heterogeneity, but clearly what it does is reestablish is the capability for leveraging the brain sciences in ways that can be used in multinational relations that range from the economic as I said earlier all the way to the bellicose.

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And this is becoming easier. Much of the neuroscience is shared in international form and I'm not making any proposition to decrease that but I think there is a need for increased responsible conduct of research inclusive of its dissemination is sharing to be able to understand what's being shared and how it might be used.

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There are a number of tools and methods that are available off the shelf and as I mentioned previously there are dedicated efforts by nations and nations in their proxies towards not only developing these capabilities and brain sciences that could be weaponized, but actually putting them into play as as recent evidence would show case of point such things like no but chuck the use of the variety of organic toxins and the still somewhat controversial consideration of the use of various types of neurologically directed energies.

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So I think it becomes important to recognize that these things are ready for prime time to technological readiness level has been indeed acknowledged and appreciated by a number of world wide groups not only are working with a brain project.

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Health organization, UNESCO most recently NATO, the National Academies here in the United States National Research Council all of them recognizing the viability potential bellicoes value and realities of neuroscience and technology as tools in warfare intelligence and national security.

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Some of the more recent discourse for example by the Nuffield Council some of the work of our group not only with human brain project but with others have addressed those ways that we might be able to surveil and oversee these initiatives and agendas.

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But there is also a sticking point if one of the recommendations and I think perhaps a viable recommendation is that the brain science is shall not be uptake into those agendas explicitly by those countries who sort of embargo push back on these intense.

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We have to appreciate not only with that those videos synchronically within a country or community but what are the benefits if not burdens risks and perhaps threats.

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Because a lack of commitment to neuroscience of technological research development testing does not in any way preclude others research development testing and perhaps application and translational use initiatives in some cases may augment it and this gets us to the difficulty of global surety.

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Conventions, healthy biological toxins and weapons conventions are having the difficult time dealing with some of these non conventional techniques and technologies.

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Very often international treaties don't necessarily guarantee cooperation but more than that.

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The extent verbiage of many of these treaties has only begun to scrape the surface as to the categorical diversity of the way these neuroscientific tools and technologies could be developed and use it the BTWC and CWC don't explicitly prohibit medical use occupational preventive medical use.

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Commercial or proprietary use in the development of particular tools and technologies that can be employed in commercial testing.

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Inclusive of commercial testing for example of organic materials to assess their vulnerability in the work space.

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In some cases the research development test evaluation use of neuro technologies is latter point.

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Specifically addressed by the Australia delegation the Australia group at the review conference of the biological toxins and weapons conventions a couple of years ago and so this is coming to the fore increasingly and I'm encouraged by that.

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But I think what we're really facing here is that neuroscience and technology can be likened to an international super speed way a formula one race multiple lanes multiple vehicles a very very high technological prowess capability or rapid pace.

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Relatively big prizes again that range from the financial all the way to global hegemony's and the ability to influence and exert forces in a variety of different domains again from the economic to the bellacose.

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And there are risks and hazards risks and hazards that are inherent to the technology and those that are derived from its various uses and military operations although very often exist with some level of limited transparency in an open society must have some level of responsibility and communication to the public that it valves to protect.

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And the question then becomes if we're going to enter the race and we already have are the race rules and restrictions.

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Well, our group working together with others here in the United States and internationally have proposed that if you're going to get on the racetrack you need some rules to get on the ramp.

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The on ramp approach an operational neuro technology risk assessment and mitigation paradigm and I provide those references for you writ large and overview it involves a general six are approach that then drills down into specific questions that must be asked and key context of framing that must be appreciated.

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It demands responsibility for realistic assessment of the technology and not science fiction there are plenty of real things need to be addressed reviewed in some cases guided.

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evaluating research and via the uses and practice what constitutes due use research of concern but does not what constitutes gain of function research of concern and what does not.

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Because what we see is that very often the ethics that are important to guiding these transcend simple civilian ethics or perhaps even science and technological ethics and interface with the ethics of power.

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The underlying issue here is that these types of scientific and technological developments that have such capability to affect thought and motion behavior are certainly being considered for and up taking within initiatives and agendas of warfare and intelligence and national security.

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And very often being done to the drum beat of their powerful capability that are exercise to preserve what politics or polis may be a lot of communal values ways of life.

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And exercising power to do that.

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And if one considers that the explicit mission of a military or intelligence operation is to protect the ideals and objectives and integrity of the state whether that state is an open society whereby politics is there to protect the polis.

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Or politically referential state in which case the ideals, directions and power of the state supersede any and all else.

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It prompts real questions, discourses and I believe dialectics have relative good and it has to begin to refer to those constructs of what represents just use of various techniques and technologies in warfare and perhaps even what represents just use of techniques and technologies to prevent warfare use contrabell.

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It must pose the question, who is Malo, who is hard, who is not and are there certain aspects of these neuroscience and technologies that are indeed model in say bad unto themselves and therefore should be arrested or restricted.

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I can tell you from my own experience working with human brain project working with NATO working with world health organization and others that although it only took me perhaps 30 minutes to talk about this the actual enterprise itself is laborious.

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Any approach to surveillance oversight ethics and regulatory guidance must be cosmopolitanist cognizance recognize these different values that exist within cultures and communities and nations and what that means if we go out to various power balances that can be affected using the brain sciences.

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But it also has to be capable with in communities of use medical communities social communities exactly.

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It needs to at least appreciate if not accommodate pluralist values but not necessarily be a laws a for for a fair form of ethics.

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And it must also appreciate how the brain sciences and their technologies are affected by and effect economics politics.

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Military intelligence capability and in the balance power working with many of my colleagues again professor Dr. Katinka ever is my colleague John shook my colleague Diane de Ulas my colleague professor about the nuclear calls internationally.

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What we've tried to do is appreciate what type of an ethical approach but type of neuropathical approach may have some viability in this forum.

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Working with my well known colleague Dr. Jonathan Rano and you know mutual colleague Michael Tennyson we've examined what this sort of ethics for Pandora might actually obtain an entail.

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I only have a bit of your time here today and I hope that my presentation has allowed you to be informed about the realities of neuroscience and technology and what it's capable of doing.

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What the real capabilities and limitations of the technology are and how very often those limitations provide nothing more than throwing an opportunistic gauntlet of what could be done next.

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How are that the brain sciences you.

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So the real question is in caching the reality check of our perspective relative humility and perhaps our gratitude for the systems that we have in place in the capability to at this point remain prepared and ready for what shall come.

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Well I think we need to cache the reality check and understanding neuro bioeconomic savvy savvy and our group together with others has written quite a bit about this and I refer you to a recent volume of the journal health security that addressed bio economy large and the neuro bio economy more specifically.

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The factors that can be leveraged in what we call non kinetic engagements of the law fair and economics by which power can be exercised utilizing brain tech just within the medical domain.

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Considerable if we then take that domain over to advances in capabilities of power within intelligence and military it becomes ever more the juggernaut.

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This necessitates some appreciation if not development of bio security by design inclusive of perhaps revisiting and revising.

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Key aspect of international conventions and signatory treaties to be more inclusive and remain a pace with the capabilities of that science.

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And ultimately if what we're going to try to do is create discourse and do so in a way that is reflective perhaps in a fat guard of not rawlsian reflective way.

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And we're going to do this in a way that maintains some ethical high ground so that ethics can inform policy and law on policy try to uphold those ethics.

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We have to appreciate a globally relevant neuro ethics because the capabilities that a variety of nations have leverage into brain sciences has brought them to those discussion papers as key players.

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By offer this to you not necessarily provide answers but to post key questions in the spirit of the philosopher of science Bruno Latour.

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Science doesn't just answer questions.

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It creates questions that are ever more difficult that prompt our engagement on a variety of levels of both the sciences and humanities to address reasonable solutions or at least trajectories to be prepared ready and perhaps resolve those questions that are generated.

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You're interested in the information that my group has done over the past several years I provide you these additional readings.

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And if you're interested in getting in touch with me after today's lecture and conference beyond the question answer period.

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I provide you my point of contact simply put in the subject line Stockholm conference and I'll get back to you probably you can reach me at james dot juror dot at jir town but you do once again james dot juror dot at jorge town dot you do.

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And with that I thank you for your time and we'll open up the floor for questions answers and discussion.

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Thank you so much that was a fascinating scary and mind-boggling at the same time.

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And I'm and as he said you raised many as many questions on more questions than you answered there's so much to explore and before I raised them are the questions that were put by the audience I wanted to follow up with some questions that I had myself.

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So it became quite clear in the earlier session already we had on quantum that there is a huge need for think tankers and the policy world to educate ourselves about these technologies.

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How would you advise policy makers to take this forward in terms of priorities because there's a bundle of different technologies what is current and immediate and urgent what is near term what is sort of more long term into the future.

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And then link to that what kind of governance mechanisms are feasible so you touch the console those that exist.

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If they need to be adjusted they can make a weapons convention the matter the weapons convention.

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You also mentioned something maybe so bad they need to be restricted so there should be some things that could be bad.

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And it could be bad you also touched about expo controls how could they come in so be great if you phrase a very complete advice to policy makers where this is a very exotic area also neams control community.

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Where should they focus their efforts.

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Yeah so let me just the first part because it's far easier because once we get into policy particularly multinational policy discourse things become far more complex.

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Tricky and nuance for a variety of reasons we'll talk about that as well.

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In terms of what things are on the horizon of reality and possibility becomes critical to appreciate what those horizons are.

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What we understand is the horizon can be parsed into three interactive domains.

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The past five years to the next five years represents the vista or the horizon of probability.

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Those of those scientific and technological developments are most probably being realized and are at a high technological readiness level for application of practical uses inclusive for example of weaponization intelligence warfare national security.

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Once we achieve those probabilities and those have been realized it allows us some insight to the next vista which is six to 15 years in the future.

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Which is considered to be the horizon of possibility.

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In other words it's a relative quick problem given realization of certain probabilities in their actualization.

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The number of possibilities become available, become viable, become tentable and achievable.

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And these two windows if you will the probable and the possible are capable of being effectively modeled.

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And if you will gain war game, red white and blue team to be able to create and construct scenarios of possibility.

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So the time frame work is such that multivariate analysis is still possible without the broad range that we call fractal effects or the fusion effects across a variety of domains and dimensions of society structure politics world effects.

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Once we get beyond 15 to 20 years we get into something known as the vista or horizon of potentiality.

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What happens things go forward is the diversification of uses applications and potential misuses of science and technology increase.

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And the relative capability to predict and accurately speculated not forecast those uses in their implications decrease.

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This has then been synergized by the current pace of neuroscience and technological advancement which has been compressed from about a 15 year window down to about five calendar years.

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And if we take it face value.

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The claims of the China brain project.

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This has been compressed even further so that there is a move from concept to true working construct of a method or a tool within 40 calendar months.

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It's a very very rapid pace and amongst that rapid pace you'll also see a diversity of foe science applications.

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So the first step is to remain a pace with the actual capabilities of the science worldwide.

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That requires some level of informational exchange, some level of oversight and to some extent some level of professional surveillance.

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Let's get to be problematic because in some cases surveillance is prevented if not inhibited in part.

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But what's called commercial veiling.

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There are a number of nations in which there is a relatively seamless triple heel mix of government inclusive military.

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The research enterprise, university research enterprise, private research enterprise and the commercial sector.

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And by feeding things into the commercial sector they then become the province of intellectual property laws which are therefore protected by proprietary interests and can be commercially valid.

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Making deep surveillance somewhat problematic not impossible with problematic here too.

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One of the revisitations needs to be on the scope and tenor of such intellectual property laws to be able to allow certain levels of transparency.

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So those domains of any science and technology brain science and technology in this case will particularly to be overseen to gain certain insight to have relative transparencies and not in ways that would necessarily violate intellectual property or proprietary claims.

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Here too it's a question of if you will co-optition maintaining a level of cooperation while at the same time appreciating that said cooperation may be fostered or occur within a relative atmosphere of competition.

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Maybe economic or may in fact be somewhat more nefarious appreciating the reality of that situation is important which brings us to the next point.

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How then do we approach the oversight and then change to guidance and governance.

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One of the things I'm very proud of is that working together with my colleagues at King's College at University of Upsila and part of the human brain projects special task force undoes.

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We didn't just plot out those relative time frames and where various types of technologies would fall out in their technological readiness realization.

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But also what those trajectories for progress would impart incur and necessitate in terms of proactive discussions within those guidance and governing bodies that oversee various forms of brain science.

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And this is where it does get a bit difficult and I'll refer the audience here to some of the experiences I had working with the organization for economic cooperation and development.

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When you bring multinational groups to the table there needs to be an appreciation that there is at very very least an economic sort of national centrist orientation in terms of how do these various developments.

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Comport for viable national strategy and tactical effect on the economic stage in other words what benefit does a regard to not only our people but also our markets our economics.

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And as we noted, the brain sciences are a considerable capability within developed countries but are also creating new dependency relations between developed countries developing and even non developed countries.

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And the existing histories of various nations that are engaged in these endeavors also allowed them to bring forth.

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They're concomitant philosophies and various ethics that may then be differentiated or primitive.

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And to be able to claim that there is a universal ethic, even perhaps claiming that there is some universal capability or or respect for the human person.

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Is countered very often by yes, there may be respect for the human person but we define the human person differently.

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We define human dignity different.

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Our culture is more of a collective rather than one that is sort of a liberal or individualistic culture.

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Our culture is more generational rather than short-term than an entemplar.

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And as a consequence, all of these factors need to be capable of being incorporated into an authentic realistic and genuine approach.

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Not only to the ethics that may give rise to certain permissivities or constraints of the research and translation.

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But what that means for guidance and governance which then brings us to these types of conventions.

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To say what would be a viable approach, I mean I only have a few minutes and I was an excellent question.

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And it would be happy to entertain this question in some of the more deeply and we've published some work together with our international colleagues.

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On proposed methods or more a methodology, a logical accounting of different methods as to which might be more useful.

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We've advocated for example some form of baller's decolibrium.

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The third party in type of equilibrium versus a simple raw zinecolibrium.

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Easy to say not easy to do.

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We've also based upon some type of what's called resharing analysis of utilizing versus current predictive proactive forms of ethical and guidance.

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In terms of what could happen based upon effective modeling and empirical modeling.

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And you also have to appreciate the variables that are often referred to as mini-max or maximum benefit with minimum risk or providing maximum capability to those with minimum access.

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So all of this folds into some sort of quasi calculus if you will of what needs to be part of the process.

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But like anything else, the process is a human process and that human process involves people.

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Purpose.

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Some proceedings and ultimately what's going to come out of that is some form of power capableization and the relative at least sustainment of individuals comparable with that level of power that is conferred or not conferred.

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In looking at harms of omission not doing certain things or harms of commission.

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Well, it'll be easy to say not easy to do but again, I am somewhat in sues who that these discussions have advanced on the world stage to be more inclusive and more appreciative of these causal politics and orientations towards an attempt to create a more viable and genuine both ethical approach and how that ethical approach can then inform if not directly in sues viable policy.

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Many things, but two more questions then I'll come to the questions that were posed.

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Well, and comes from an opening panel of the SSE where one of the panelists raised the question, how does power play out what does power mean for the specific technology.

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So what does power mean for neuroscience and the other one you've touched upon a number of other technologies and one of the interesting questions are the interconnections between technologies.

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You mentioned biotechnology and particularly function cyber AI for to machine learning and robotics.

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Which one are the most potentially powerful risky interconnections.

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As regards the first with regard to power equilibria and the capabilities that are leveraged by the brain sciences let me let me sort of reduce it down if you will to some common common capabilities.

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But the brain sciences afford us the ability to do is to assess and gain information from the living brain, both individuals and groups.

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In Turprit that information in ways that have meaning very often we ascribe the meaning as to what these technologies are telling us.

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But then we use that information, we use that information to ways.

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We use that information itself we call neurobiodata.

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Inwards the more I know the more I can gain insights to the way your brain works the way your brain functions or dysfunction where your relative strengths are, where your relative limitations are.

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And then being able to accommodate or at least access those different capabilities, trans limitations on an individual collective basis.

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But humans are tool users. I mean this is part of our natural history.

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Yeah, we may call ourselves homo sapiens but the reality is that we are homo sapiens technique us.

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We've risen to the relative top of the evolutionary ziggurat by virtue of our not only evolutionary capabilities biologically, but to augment that biology to the use of tools.

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The inclusive of those tools that we use to interact with each other cooperatively and competitively brain sciences are no different.

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The ability to affect brain structure and function allows inciting capability.

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From a variety of skills, from the subcellure all the way to the socio political, from the personal, all the way to the political military power.

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There's great power in doing that, the power of control, the power of assessment, the power of insight.

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And so what we really see is that the brain sciences are for us the capability to leverage power on an intimate level that also raises the capability of power on an almost infinite level.

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Because as we link the brain sciences to other forms of what we'll call influence technologies.

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Very often previously referred to as disruptive technologies.

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And you mentioned a couple computational systems narratives, the Biccuity of information, artificial intelligence, decision technologies.

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The capability to affect individuals, cognitions and motion and behaviors.

335
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Via various images, narratives and presentations that we know to be salient, therefore meaningful and effective.

336
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:26,200
As well as perhaps more direct ways.

337
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:32,200
The use of various, if you will, drugs, bugs, toxins and devices.

338
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:40,200
It becomes a rather large toolkit and a very powerful one of that.

339
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:46,200
Now, what does that then mean in terms of these various technologies?

340
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:54,200
I guess buried within that question is sort of the implicit, okay, what keeps me up at night.

341
00:53:54,200 --> 00:54:01,200
You know, conversion sciences are very important to address key questions, whether limitations of one discipline or approach by another.

342
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,200
It affords if you will, it's called fresh eyes on the target, fresh eyes on the test.

343
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:15,200
But I think one of the things that happens there too is that the capabilities of different disciplines allow for a multi capability expression.

344
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,200
And reality of what the brain sciences could achieve.

345
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:26,200
So what we're able to do is we essentially use neuro or some other technological prefix or suffix and we put them together, neuroscience or cyber neuro.

346
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:33,200
Neuro microbiology, neuro anthropology, but with the neuro really is used as synaptic,

347
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:39,200
in other words, representation of what are capabilities and our limitations in brain science and technology are.

348
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:44,200
And when we pair these, they essentially work as force multipliers.

349
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:48,200
We're essentially one hand is washing the other in both engagements of task.

350
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,200
What gives me most pause?

351
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:59,200
I'm particularly worried about gene editing techniques and gene editing techniques, particularly when coupled to synthetic biology.

352
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:04,200
Because gene editing techniques, when coupled to synthetic biology, particularly in applying your cognitive dimensions,

353
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:12,200
offer unique capabilities to be able to affect the structure and function of the nervous system, those organisms that have a nervous system in a variety of ways.

354
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:16,200
Sometimes rather subtling other times form more severely.

355
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:22,200
And equally worried about the pairing of neural systems with computational systems.

356
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:32,200
So what we're really seeing is the reciprocal augmentation of the human operator and an increasing capableization of the machine component.

357
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:37,200
So you're really getting a truly cyber genetic organismal system,

358
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:45,200
where you're having dual co-operativity reciprocity and therefore you're delimiting aspects of both systems.

359
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:54,200
The issue there is at some point you will get a relative functional fusion of human cognitive capabilities, but that of the machine.

360
00:55:54,200 --> 00:56:02,200
And the capability of the machine to human cognitive capabilities, inclusive of insight to human emotionality,

361
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:20,200
intentionality, impulse and response, which can then be engaged if we take humans either on the loop or out of the loop to have considerable effect on the way a non biological system that may be cognitive and capacity in AI system.

362
00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:25,200
It affects the dynamics of human individuals and populations.

363
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:37,200
And I'm just telling you, although we in the United States and Europe and many of our international cooperators are very concerned about keeping a proverbially human in the loop or at least on the loop.

364
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:49,200
Such considerations for humans in an envelope are not universal in some cases, artificial intelligence systems that are devoid of any human engagement beyond the original builders bias.

365
00:56:49,200 --> 00:57:02,200
Seems to be favored and do you regard because they're viewed as not necessarily being perlined by human influence, but being somewhat more and I'm using the language that has been vandered pure.

366
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:12,200
And that then becomes a consideration of how the brain sciences will need to interface with the information sciences in those ways are going to be proactive.

367
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:19,200
Great, many things. So one of the audience question is about that's a China question.

368
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:29,200
The PLA talk of the cognitive domain of warfare, what impact can Western ethical restrictions have when opponents have fear restrictions as they handle this put it.

369
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:30,200
The other.

370
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,200
Yeah, that's an absolutely wonderful question.

371
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:41,200
And I think the question is really one of developing discourse and iteratively dialectical synthesis. Let me explain what I mean by that.

372
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:51,200
Our Chinese colleagues and I use the word in a complementary sense in the most accurate sense they're in the league with these enterprises as our way.

373
00:57:51,200 --> 00:58:10,200
Have defined various goods, various rights and wrongs within their research conduct and its expression into translation that in some cases do not support with longstanding post enlightenment or classical philosophical and ethical values of what was previously for a US quote the West and I don't need to be derogatory in that phrase.

374
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:27,200
So the question here becomes not only to try to develop a more synthetic approach, in other words, where the actual thesis of what are we using these things for to what ends and are the means and the ends relatively aligned with ethically delicious standards norms guidelines and practices.

375
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:35,200
But it's also one of becoming scenic rhetoric and let me explain in other words, there may be different belief systems that are involved.

376
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:44,200
And so one of the approaches that has been advocated to be viable is the one that I alluded to earlier, in other words, co-optician.

377
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:51,200
The ability to engage discourse and dialectic to come to a point where there is cooperation on certain fronts.

378
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:58,200
So as to maintain key domains of competition, but those competition domains remain somewhat mutually involved.

379
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:22,200
So there are key dependencies that must be appelled whereby the rising tide, both ethical rising tide as well as scientific and technological rising tide is important to create relative advantages and at the same time create relative power by dynamics, where those hegemony is in leveraging domains are decided upon are agreed upon and there's some consensus.

380
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:32,200
The problem with that, of course, is that it appreciates or our prior appreciates that there may be key power players.

381
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:42,200
So in the words, the European Union, the United States, Australia, Japan and fill in the blank China and Russia, whatever.

382
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:54,200
And what tends to happen is that other players, if you will, other participants or non-participants tend to fall off the slope of that building's regret of capability.

383
00:59:54,200 --> 01:00:00:10,200
So in each and all of those discussions it also becomes important to examine and address whether or not the science and technology that is being developed by the key power players, the influential if you will power dynamics of Europe, United States, Australia, China.

384
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:21,200
How that's going to also incur particular systemic benefits, burdens, risks and harms, more broadly in what that will do to the global stage picture moving forward.

385
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:30,200
That's part of the UNESCO task force and certainly that was one of the key domains that was examined by the cognitive warfare report that was recently developed with NATO.

386
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:38,200
And again, it needs to be a work in progress. I don't have an answer for that, but I can certainly pose the considerations that are going to be important to its address.

387
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:46,200
So I apologize, I've been in answer to the question, but at least I hope to have clarified the key domains in the question that are going to be important for its approach.

388
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:51,200
Great, many thanks. So the next question is about non-ceductors.

389
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:58,200
I'm very proud to the fact that the technologies that you described are more developed by states.

390
01:00:58,200 --> 01:01:04,200
The question I was going to say, but actually you also refer to a lot of developments that are not happening by states.

391
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:14,200
It would be interesting if you actually differentiate it out what kind of innovation happens in the private sector in academia, what extent is it actually within state ownership.

392
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,200
And to what extent are there is that non-ceductors?

393
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:30,200
In the amount of time a lot in here, I think that the entirety of looking at the neurobiochonomy, real large in other words, what is the nature of the field in terms of those domains that are state versus non-state.

394
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:39,200
Those that are state with regard to governmental and those that regard the free research enterprise and those that are in the commercial sector versus the do yourself enterprise.

395
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,200
That's quite a discourse.

396
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:47,200
A very interesting discourse and one that I'd be happy to undertake with the question or independently of this form.

397
01:01:47,200 --> 01:02:01,200
But to answer the question generally, I think you see considerable issues where once again the factors of the triple helix, in other words, government agenda, whether that's politics, ender politics and the military.

398
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:18,200
Have a seamless connectivity if not guidance and direction of the academic end or private research sector, which is then seamlessly connected to the commercial sector, which provides both the opportunity of some valing through proprietary interest and intellectual property law.

399
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:29,200
And also the ability to develop commercial enterprises that can then shield the various uses of these techniques and technologies and ways of not only be commercially industrially destructive or influential.

400
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:48,200
But could certainly be rendered against individuals using various forms of neuroscience neurotechnologies, various forms of directable energies, various forms of chemicals, development of various nano materials to assess their effect upon inorganic and organic substances for occupational safety and health.

401
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:54,200
Concerning to be uptake into warfare intelligence and national security agendas like that.

402
01:02:54,200 --> 01:03:09,200
And if and when those infrastructures of a nation are indeed relatively seamless and fluid, the incorporation into what may then be these agendas of national security intelligence and defense are facile.

403
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:17,200
In other governmental structures where there is a relative separation between the governmental initiatives that may fund certain areas of brain science.

404
01:03:17,200 --> 01:03:24,200
The research enterprise sometimes that is not necessarily aligned or inconsensus with certain governmental possibilities of use.

405
01:03:24,200 --> 01:03:30,200
And to free standing and independent commercial enterprise, create relative fractures.

406
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:37,200
And in each one of those silos there may be developments that could be promising and or probably problematic.

407
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:44,200
So really seeing using the gross balance of how we need to assess this field we can see to generalize domain.

408
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:54,200
Those nation states that have a relatively seamless infrastructure and its functions of those primary three elements of government research and commercial industrial sector.

409
01:03:54,200 --> 01:04:06,200
And those that although are interactive are not as not as facile and therefore allow capability of what I've called silo development of things that are promising or problematic.

410
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:17,200
Where things get to be somewhat more difficult is how independent actors are sustained and function within these two different environments.

411
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:25,200
Understand the character realistically and please let me let me also provide a caveat here and in full transparency I'm not a political scientist.

412
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:34,200
So I don't want to get outside of my sandbox my orientation and my address of this topic is focal and only focal to my personal experience and and.

413
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:41,200
A addition in those areas that have been germane to neuroscience and technological development within the social political arena.

414
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:51,200
Higher level of speculation higher level of address of these politically and sociologically relevant variables way beyond the capability of the simple neuroscience.

415
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:59,200
But one of the things that came very evident is that in a country in which there is this relative seenlessness between those entities.

416
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:08,200
Everything is top down and everything from the bottom up feeds into the governmental impetus initiatives and agendas.

417
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:20,200
So basically it is a collectivist mindset inclusive of the establishment and perhaps sustainability and flourishing of the do it yourself community within that community it is in fact part of the collective.

418
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:24,200
And very often can be funded and supported in the.

419
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:34,200
In contrast in those other governmental and international systems in which they exist in silos of government to research enterprise and commercial industrial enterprise.

420
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:45,200
Very often the do it yourself for is seeing is somewhat distinct not necessarily anathema but certainly distinct in that they're operating outside of those relative silos of oversight or governance.

421
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:50,200
And although they may interface with institution review boards etc.

422
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:58,200
The relative independence and some of the fractional independence of the do it yourself her has different latitudes in this environment.

423
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:04,200
Where there is a non seamless triple helix versus this environment which is certainly politically and governmentally collective.

424
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,200
So in looking at the do it yourself her.

425
01:06:07,200 --> 01:06:14,200
It also becomes important to understand is the do it yourself whether the individual or a community of do it yourself is.

426
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:26,200
It means by which those nations that do have political control over all entities inclusive of the do it yourself community can exercise subtle or explicit capability control.

427
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,200
Within those nations and frameworks that do not.

428
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:35,200
And that's one of the area that is being explored right now in your technological politics and sociology.

429
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:42,200
So I hope that I address the question to some extent and and say to the the questioners insights.

430
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:54,200
Great thanks then over to new confidence building measures transparency measures so the question about whether those good help mitigate the security basis and if so which cbmc would suggest.

431
01:06:54,200 --> 01:07:04,200
And the second one takes us back to the governance question if it was possible to mostly go restrictions do you think there could be effective verification.

432
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:11,200
You know here I here I refer back to some of the stellar work of my colleague professor rose at Kings college.

433
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:16,200
Working deeply in the area of of governance oversight.

434
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:32,200
A regulatory control he has been a steady and a stalwart voice on the international stage and certainly was critically important some of the ongoing working that exact question with the human brain project not only in Europe but also some of the considerations.

435
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:39,200
For various ways that newer technologies can should or should not be utilized or controlled elsewhere in the United States.

436
01:07:39,200 --> 01:08:00,200
The idea that there may be different frameworks for oversight and regulation a participatory science framework collective science frameworks those that involve sort of key communities of scientific enterprise that can then be enjoying to each other where you literally have if you will nodes of scientific engagement that can then link by virtue of edges and networks to other nodes.

437
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:08,200
And by virtue of that you can get key areas of dissonance and consonants in terms of what types of oversight regulation restriction you can put in place.

438
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,200
He's on a wonderful job in articulating.

439
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:18,200
I still not his thunder or his fire it is impressive in its body of work and its result and I refer each and all the participants to read that.

440
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:27,200
Part of the foresight report that was precipitative and led to our conclusion report the human brain project and is ongoing work addresses this.

441
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:42,200
But to sort of cut to the chase a bit I think that the questioner's inquiry here is well what what is owed in terms of transparency as well.

442
01:08:42,200 --> 01:08:49,200
And this gets to be a relative sticky wicked if you will this gets to be a little bit of a thorny issue.

443
01:08:50,200 --> 01:09:01,200
Because as soon as we begin to talk about the use of any science and technology for initiatives of national intelligence security and defense irrespective of whatever nation it is we're talking about.

444
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:13,200
There are those things that various nations will deem as essential to national security and perhaps public safety on a variety of levels from the domestic to the international.

445
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:18,200
That are not held in full transparency that are classified information.

446
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:29,200
And the nature of that classified information is that it is felt to be best in the common interest of the polis or in some cases in a close society for the body, Paul.

447
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:40,200
The running adage is you know you don't show the other team your playbook on Friday and still expect to win the rugby match on Saturday.

448
01:09:41,200 --> 01:09:43,200
But what if you could.

449
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:58,200
What if you're able to develop a common set if you will of rules and plays and define certain things as relative mallum in say that it very, very least need to be addressed and reported.

450
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:19,200
And in some cases also having a level of transparency in terms of purpose but not necessarily process why in an open society in a liberal democracy in an open is an open viable democratic society such level of transparency is important to be able to engage public discourse.

451
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:32,200
And it also becomes important to inform the public as to what is real and what is not so as to not miscommunicate or mis foster various expectations and to surpassing spheres and anxieties.

452
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:42,200
It's also a question of saying what's going on if you will out there and what things need to be done back here to at very very least be prepared.

453
01:10:42,200 --> 01:10:46,200
If not ready for what may be those burdens risks and threats.

454
01:10:46,200 --> 01:11:00,200
We've proposed a fourth wasp approach that involves a relative whole of nation orientation that involves number one awareness of the reality of what the science and technology can do and who's doing it on the world stage.

455
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:13,200
Number two, quantifying the actual burden risk and threat not all of this stuff is at a high risk or threat level not all of it is operationally ready in terms of scalability field ability.

456
01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:20,200
Certain things of far more low hanging fruit and far more dangerous than others and those need to be quantified and that's where the flow society line.

457
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:29,200
And then at that point engaging in the discourse and dialectic necessary to mitigate those burdens risks and threats.

458
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:42,200
At least to a point that arrests relative bringsmanship and their main fact be some common dialogue that is necessary as we recognize and co model what these trajectories are particularly when we anticipate.

459
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:57,200
In some case, a speculating forecast what might be called runaway effect for the technology runs away from us either because of the science and technology itself or because of its social draw either within political military or even just public domains.

460
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:03,200
As well as perhaps unanticipated effects which sometimes are referred to as vexled lot of facts.

461
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:10,200
In other words, if you're doing something that is new or you're using an existing set of tools and techniques that are novel.

462
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:16,200
You have to be able to anticipate that there will be things that happen that you simply didn't anticipate.

463
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:23,200
Are you fast? Are you prepared? This is what we've referred to as footfall effects.

464
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:33,200
Not so much to impede forward progress but to be very, very aware of where each foot of progress falls.

465
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:49,200
So as to be able to maintain relative balance and equilibrium of those forces that are and could act as imbalancing measures with each step forward.

466
01:12:49,200 --> 01:12:58,200
Thank you so much. So we've actually been able to spend an hour 15 and we have even spreads to surface of this I have the impression.

467
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:13,200
It's really an extremely complex issue and I'm glad that it's it will be able to take forward the theme of battlefields of the future and also this particular theme of neuroscience in develop it further.

468
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:22,200
There will be further events coming up not in the context of this as the sea but in the context of future and sea, the common security conferences and also events leading up to that.

469
01:13:22,200 --> 01:13:26,200
So watch this space for those of you who are interested in that.

470
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:38,200
I've also been taking particular note on the international humanitarian law and international law angle which we were not able to explore so we will leave that for for a future for a lot of session.

471
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:50,200
And it's been very interesting also how this has highlighted how important it is to bring together not just natural science world of the social science world, but the academic, academic world and the policy world.

472
01:13:50,200 --> 01:13:58,200
There is so much to explore and the knowledge is still very insufficient on this issue in the same time community and the policy community.

473
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:06,200
So anything that we can do going forward to to make this happen I think will be very important including also to involve industry.

474
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:16,200
In one point that was also made at the earlier session is about the importance of responsible innovation and research ethics really educating.

475
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:26,200
Students from a young age about these issues and potential security of it because it's even like this is not done sufficiently at universities across the world.

476
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:32,200
So if this is something that we can highlight and also bring next to the nation natural scientists into this.

477
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:41,200
I'm a control community of the social sciences and rich these gaps that I think we can move things forward and maybe 10 15 years down the road we will have a.

478
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:51,200
And neurologic rapid street who knows are the very negotiations and it sounds like there is a need at least for debate on a discussion on that.

479
01:14:51,200 --> 01:15:02,200
So with that and very thanks to you professor to the for having taken the time to explain these issues to us and we look forward to further engagement on this.

480
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:15,200
Thank you also to the CPTAC team and thank you to the audience for being interested in this very exotic but very very important issue of the human mind as a battlefield like every night.