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It's a privilege and pleasure to be joined by a panel that will help us navigate a difficult

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but necessary conversation, which is how do we build a future which is both net zero in

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emissions but also energy secure.

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And so there's just a lot of rhetoric about this right now, but with COP 28 coming to

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Abu Dhabi, there's been a lot of debate about whether this could be the moment that the

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hydrocarbon world could come together with the climate activist world and together sort

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out their differences, a sort of a period of energy pragmatism.

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Some people think that is hopelessly utopian to believe in and other people say it's refreshingly

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pragmatic and some say well maybe it's a little bit of both, both utopian and pragmatic.

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And I'm going to start with Christian and Siemens, which is at the heart of the, you

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operate at the heart of the energy, at the energy transition.

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You run a business that's focused on this.

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You look at the synergies that exist between the energy transition, energy security.

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Speaking from Siemens energy perspective, it's, it sounds like a European company, but

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of course it's a lot more than that.

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And so I wonder if you could kick us off and particularly address my opening question about

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whether it's overly utopian or just plain pragmatic that the climate communities and

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the hydrocarbon communities have to come together to finally take on this climate crisis that

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we're all facing.

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No, thanks, Red, and thanks very much for having me.

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And first of all, I do appreciate very much the changing narrative which we have at the

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moment, which is talking more about resilience and not about sustainability or affordability

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or reliability of supply, because at the end it's about building a resilient energy

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system and you cannot untangle these different type of elements.

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This is why we as a company are also present in conventional energy production, renewable

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energy production, grid storage, hydrogen, you name it, right, because you will need

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an awfully diverse system coming together to make it resilient.

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And I think we got a little bit, I think, misled, I think in particular if I look also

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on Europe, by the discussion which we had about the gas supply from Russia, because

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everybody was looking now how can we solve this problem and at the same time building

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a more renewable infrastructure.

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I think what we have to look at, and you mentioned it before, that a lot of these events which

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are happening at the moment do influence our energy system in terms of really resilience,

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right?

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I mean, we had droughts last year in France which brought down nuclear production, so

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a lot of elements impact this, so we cannot untangle security and sustainability of supply.

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That said, I think one thing we have to be aware, and this is a massive opportunity in

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this discussion, we're talking about the biggest investment program ever into the energy industry.

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It's a long-term industry which is used to develop projects over decades and thinking

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in decades and all of a sudden we ask that industry move fast and accelerate, and that

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is not coming together.

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So I think we fundamentally have to challenge our approach to realize different things,

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to build a different energy system, and that is I think what these discussions are also

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about.

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How can we actually get speed in an industry which is not used to speed and which is not

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used to scale and which is not used to transform?

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And that is something which is a fundamental element which I think needs to be tackled

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because business model is going to change, technology is going to be there.

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I think we're having lesser technology discussion.

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We will need new technology, we will need innovation, that's not a question, but technology

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is not hindering us to move forward.

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But there's a lot about the different business model, the approaches.

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We are trying as a company to bring this diversity in our technology, this is why we are so broad,

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but obviously we have to recognize that we will need to build and invest a lot of money

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in a very diverse energy system to be resilient.

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So I'm going to do one round with each of you.

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So as you hear the answers of your colleagues and want to step in, please do that particularly

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in the second round.

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But let me ask one follow-up with you, Christian.

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In this world of technology where we keep thinking about a silver bullet, is there

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going to be regulation that saves us or technology that saves us?

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If you're looking at the technologies that you're talking about, and particularly this

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question of speed and scale that you're talking about, are there one or two technologies

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you consider particularly promising that go in the direction of not a silver bullet,

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at least a faster way to the solution?

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First of all, there's lots.

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I mean, you know this number that you need roughly 40 to 50% of the technologies what

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you require from the zeros are not commercialized yet, at least.

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But I don't see any silver bullet whatsoever.

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It will be lots of different technologies.

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And I think the key point is don't wait for a silver bullet to arrive.

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Move forward.

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And I think this is what we have to see.

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If there's one thing I would like to emphasize, because I think we talk very much about the

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generation building renewables, building grids, which is absolutely necessary.

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But we far too little talk about the demand side.

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And the minister just said obviously about AI and all the pleasure in this.

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I mean, we discuss about this.

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Demand side has gone up.

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The university grows 2 to 4% every year, even in places like Europe, which are economically

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not growing that much.

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So we will have a massive issue if we don't tackle the demand side.

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So if there's one thing in the short term where I would expect a lot from, it's really

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demand side management, digital AI.

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Simply because it will take a lot of time to build physical infrastructure.

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We're investing a lot of money in technology, aren't we?

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Fusion, renewables, storage, all of these.

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Great.

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Necessary.

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But it will take a decade to deploy it.

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Minimum, right?

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So if it's about physical infrastructure, it will take time.

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And we don't have that time.

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We have an opening gap between supply and demand.

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We have an opening gap on the CO2 emissions.

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So we will probably need to do everything to manage demand side.

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And every technology which contributes that will help us.

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And this is what we have to recognize.

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We need some short term actions.

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And they're probably more on the, or shall I say, software side than on the hardware side.

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Thank you.

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Francesco, you stated that COP 28 will be the energy COP.

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From your perspective as Director General of IRENA, what are your priorities for the COP?

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And for some people in the room who might not necessarily know what IRENA does,

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maybe a couple of sentences about that as well.

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IRENA is doing just good things.

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You're saving the planet.

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The agency, the global agency that's working on energy transition and based on renewables.

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As we do everything it's possible to do for making this happen.

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Concerning the COP 28, it will be the moment, the official moment.

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Because one thing is IRENA say or other say that we are not in track to achieve the Paris Agreement goal.

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But it will be different when the UNFCC through the stock taking exercise

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will officially say that we are not in track.

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There will be differences between continent countries.

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But the first result of the stock taking, the first one after Paris is that country has not,

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how to say, act consistently to make the promise of the Paris Agreement be there.

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So the second moment will be, well, we are not where we should be.

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So then, so we have to, the COP should say how we can close the gap.

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And on this is what IRENA is working.

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We still are listening to language and solutions that's referred to something that has been discussed during the last year.

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But we think that all this language is not really fitting on building the new narrative that we need.

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At least for giving hope that we can comply with the Paris Agreement goals.

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In our point of view, the main existing barrier today for the rapid deployment of renewables,

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that's, you know, it's evident that the energy transition is on place.

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We are going to a new energy system dominated by renewables, complemented by hydrogen, mainly green,

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and the sustainable use of biomass.

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The problem has been said, the speed, the scale of this transformation.

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The fact is that today we have not the infrastructure that is able to sustain the building of the new energy system.

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You know, it takes more than one century to sustain the affirmation of this actual energy system, centralized and based on fossil fuels.

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The question is now that we don't have the infrastructure that really make possible for renewables to go and the speed and scale that is needed.

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I'm talking about the physical infrastructure.

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We are talking about the legal and policy infrastructure.

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We are talking about the institutional capacity and professional skills.

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Still our universities have their curriculum that are not going to a new energy system.

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We have the Ministry of Petroleum and Gas.

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Not in all countries, we have the Minister for Renewable Energy.

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So all this building this new narrative and we are working for that offering for the Presidency of the COP,

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offering to the member of ARENA, will be also able to redesign the way international cooperation works.

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First of all, we have to abandon the predatory approach that developed countries are having with the developing world.

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And we have also to understand that development is necessary to be linked with the building of the new energy system.

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Because you cannot sell renewables in the place where you have no money to pay for the bill.

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So development has to go close to the building of the new energy system.

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Also we need to build a system that should be fully decentralized.

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And this also apply to supply chain.

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So why we don't invest in Africa, in South East Asia, to building the supply safe for feeding the renewables.

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So all this aspect has to be considered and I hope that the COP will indicate that closing the gap obliges us to do much faster.

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And provide for all the infrastructure we need to sustain the new energy system and to emerge and be in place soon.

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And just very briefly, with all these many priorities, if you were to pick out the one thing you would want out of this COP 28, what would it be?

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This one. Make clear that we need a new narrative to close the gap between where we are and where we should be.

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Thank you for that.

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Mohamed Jamil Aramai.

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The UAE has positioned itself on a trajectory to be a key energy supplier in a net zero world.

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In the same sense that it is today in the hydrocarbon based energy system.

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So what role will the UAE and Mazdar play in expanding clean energy globally through 2050?

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And maybe also dealing with my key question in the beginning.

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Is it utopian to think that we can finally turn this around beginning with COP 28?

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Could this be a turning point COP or not?

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First, thank you for having us here today.

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It's great to be here in the World Government Summit.

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And beautiful city of Dubai.

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Amongst friends.

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You know, I want to go back maybe.

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I'll also give a chance for me to speak a little bit about Mazdar for those who maybe don't understand what we do or what we have done in the past.

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The company was established in 2006.

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It was established for two main strategic objectives.

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And I think these two strategic objectives are fully aligned with today's panel, if I may.

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One, which is energy security.

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You know, our country is fully dependent on fossil fuel.

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Yes, we do produce fossils and we do export energy to the rest of the world.

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However, from an energy security perspective as a country, we were 100% dependent on fossil.

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And that was not sustainable.

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And that's why the leadership decided to diversify our energy mix.

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And they did that almost 20 years ago.

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A, by establishing Mazdar to focus on the deployment of renewable, clean energy.

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And B, to invest in clean, sustainable nuclear power generation.

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And they set the target for the nation.

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And two, to address climate challenges.

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So security of energy and climate, they go hand in hand.

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And this is our belief in the United Arab Emirates.

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Now Mazdar, since 2006, we went through a lot of evolution.

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You know, it was established by the leadership in Abu Dhabi.

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We had one shareholders called Mubadala.

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We had our founding CEO, Dr. Sultan Al-Jaber.

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And now our chairman is also COP 28 designated president.

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And I've worked with him throughout this journey, through this evolution.

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The UAE was the first to sign on the Paris commitment.

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The UAE was the first in this region to sign on a net zero target by 2050.

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And that is our commitment.

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And we've set the target in 2006 when we established Mazdar.

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The leadership set the target.

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And as a country, we have overachieved that target.

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In Abu Dhabi, it was 7% renewable energy penetration.

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We've overachieved that in 2020.

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And not only that, the country, holistically, through its multi-institutions,

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and then I will speak about Mazdar,

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but multi-institutions have invested heavily in A, decarbonization,

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and yes, yes, absolutely, demand is critical.

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It's not only supply.

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To achieve neutrality, you need to look at the equation from the demand side and the supply side.

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You cannot ignore the demand and just focus on the supply.

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So yes, energy efficiency is key.

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And this is cut across.

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In Dubai, we have great examples.

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The UAE has done a lot through Mohammed bin Rashid Solar Park.

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But as the Emirates of Dubai, they have also done a lot in the decarbonization of energy efficiency.

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Same for Abu Dhabi.

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Sharjah, the same thing.

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So holistically, as a country, we have been not only talking the talk, but walking the walk.

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And we have exceeded all of our targets.

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And I'm confident that we, as a nation, the United Arab Emirates, we will overachieve our target.

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And the target that we set for ourselves, I am confident that we will achieve.

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However, we do not sit in a bubble.

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We are part of this global world that we live in.

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And the climate challenge is not a UAE issue.

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It's a global issue.

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Yes, we contribute.

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So what we did as Mazdar, we started in the UAE, but we are now in 40 countries.

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We have north of 20 gigawatts, 20,000 megawatts of green, clean energy being supplied across the globe.

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In the developed world and in the developing world.

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Because we cannot just deploy capital and accelerate the decarbonization in the developed world.

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Somebody needs to do the difficult part and decarbonize the countries that have no access to financing.

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And I want to mention this because it's very important.

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I think what IRENA is doing is fantastic.

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And I'm glad to have IRENA as a strategic tenant at Mazdar City, as well as Siemens.

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And Siemens is doing a great job because they are providing the technology, they are providing the support.

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To decarbonize the world, we need everyone's support.

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We need to unite to tackle this global challenge.

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We, as a company today, we have three shareholders.

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We closed last year in a financial clause where we brought in two new shareholders, Adnouk and Tata.

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And we increased our target in terms of business plan.

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You know, we were supposed to be 25 gigawatt by 2030.

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We are 20 gigawatt now.

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And the new shareholders expect us to go up to 100 gigawatt by 2030.

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And 1 million tons of green hydrogen by 2030.

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This is only up to 2030.

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And 100 gigawatt is a lot.

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In fact, today, Mazdar is one of the global leaders of renewable energy.

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But the question is, 100 gigawatt that Mazdar will contribute with its partners to the world, is it sufficient enough?

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And the answer, the simple answer to that is definitely not.

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We need 10 times our target capacity by 2030 on an annual basis for the next decade to just try to achieve our objective.

241
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So there is a lot to do.

242
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And thank you for that statement.

243
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That's very important.

244
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As you look at this daunting challenge that you laid out for yourself,

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sometimes I think there's just, as I talked to Christian about the technologies, there's a confusion of what's going to get there.

246
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So there's talk about solar and storage, hydrogen.

247
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How does this all interact and complement one another?

248
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And how do you see Mazdar working to synchronize to build this future system?

249
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You know, Fred, we are lucky.

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Because we, from day one, we were incubated as green animal, special DNA, sustainable green DNA.

251
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We do not have to evolve and change our legacy because we were born without a legacy.

252
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Okay.

253
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That means what?

254
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That means from day one, we focused on all supply of green, clean technologies.

255
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So we looked at solar, wind, storage, and hydrogen.

256
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And when people were not even talking about hydrogen, we attempted to build the largest hydrogen power plant here in the United Arab Emirates with our partners BP.

257
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That was when hydrogen was not even discussed.

258
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So we've looked at the whole value chain.

259
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We need it all.

260
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We need carbon capture and storage.

261
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We developed with our partners ADNOC the largest commercial scale carbon capture solution in the United Arab Emirates, 800,000 tons.

262
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We developed the first waste to energy plant in this whole region, in Sharjah, with our partners BI.

263
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So we need all technologies, offshore wind, onshore wind, solar PV, solar CSP.

264
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We still believe in solar CSP, even though a lot of people don't talk about concentrated solar power.

265
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We believe in concentrated solar power.

266
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In fact, we are with our partners today developing the largest CSP with storage hybrid, CSP PV, thermal storage, and battery storage in the Kingdom of Morocco.

267
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So we need all type of solutions.

268
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Every country is unique.

269
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You cannot, it's bespoke shop.

270
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It has to be a bespoke shop.

271
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You come to me, I will customize a solution for you.

272
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We need to understand the need and we need to design the need.

273
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And we need to separate between the developed world and the developing world.

274
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The developed world have spent 100 centuries in developing an infrastructure.

275
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It would be a shame that we do not utilize that infrastructure.

276
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Thank you very much for that.

277
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And we'll come back to this.

278
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I'm really interested to hear from Marco Dunant.

279
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Marco, say a few words about your company.

280
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It's an understatement to say you trade in commodities.

281
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I think you're number three in the world.

282
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What a fascinating world you've been operating in the last couple of years.

283
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Maybe you can talk a little bit about what you've heard from your colleagues and how you're seeing the world at the moment.

284
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It was a pleasure.

285
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Obviously, thanks for having me.

286
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I'm very excited to be in this wonderful venue and in this wonderful country.

287
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So just to say a few things about Mercure, we are the third largest trading company in the world, privately owned, focused on energy.

288
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We trade about $140 billion of commodity every year.

289
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We follow every market every day.

290
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So some people mentioned we have to think longer term.

291
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We actually think for the next hour, the next day, and what will happen to peak price, to power price, also different things.

292
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Besides that, we also have a carbon...

293
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We decided to be offsetting all our carbon emissions, so we're net zero already now.

294
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And we also decided to have 50% of all our investments in the energy transition within two years.

295
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And we're probably going to be ahead of that.

296
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So we've been investing very heavily in the transition.

297
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We think we're well placed for that because a lot of those investments depend on where you put the commodity prices.

298
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:29,040
You want to invest in renewable, whether it's solar, wind, or battery.

299
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:38,040
If you don't understand where to put those and the price, you can essentially de-risk some of those investments by entering the markets.

300
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,040
A couple of remarks.

301
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,040
A few remarks. If you try to build renewable...

302
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:49,040
We have, for instance, two gigs of renewable project in Texas.

303
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:54,040
You can probably get this off the ground in about three years and essentially produce and you can hedge this forward curve.

304
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,040
There's also different things.

305
00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:02,040
If you try to do the same in Europe, which probably needs it more than anyone, it probably takes you six, seven years.

306
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:08,040
And we're developing also three gigs of renewable in Eastern Europe.

307
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:14,040
And another observation is that for the funding of this, which is obviously interest rates move up,

308
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:24,040
the people who are most likely to want to invest together with a developer actually either in the region here in the Middle East or in China.

309
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:31,040
So there's a lack of appetite for renewable investments coming from European players.

310
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,040
In the US, it's a different story. It's a much more liquid market.

311
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,040
That's in a nutshell what we do.

312
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The advantage we have, I suppose, in investments in the transition is we actually have speed and scale.

313
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,040
We have sort of a multi-billion dollar credit line from banks.

314
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,040
We have a strong balance sheet and we are a private company, so we can decide things very quickly.

315
00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:05,040
And we can come up with this kind of power and we can come up with actually the capital needed to understand the understanding of those kind of commodity markets,

316
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,040
which are interlinked with the transition.

317
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:14,040
So we've made investments across the world in pretty much everything in battery, solar and wind,

318
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:24,040
but also transforming solid waste into energy, transforming using a battery as storage for a car battery, a storage for power, and so on and so forth.

319
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:30,040
All those are interlinked with volatility of prices and be able to actually essentially be on top of them.

320
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:37,040
So Manisha, I wonder if you can do, as the others have done, which is introduce Schneider Electric in a couple of sentences,

321
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:44,040
but then talk about your unique view on this because you're an expert on digital transformation.

322
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,040
This has been sweeping the economy for several decades.

323
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:53,040
Electric grids incorporating vast amounts of software, electricity becoming more distributed.

324
00:25:53,040 --> 00:26:00,040
But is this all making us more secure or less secure?

325
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,040
No, thanks. Thanks, Fred.

326
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:10,040
So once again, very privileged to be here and thanks for the invitation.

327
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:23,040
At Schneider Electric, our purpose is to empower all to make the most of the resources so that we can drive sustainability and sustainability for all.

328
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:31,040
And we do that through our bringing solutions around digital transformation for energy management and industrial automation.

329
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:41,040
So we are somewhere in between the supply and demand, and we are orchestrating the management of flow of energy across different segments.

330
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:55,040
So we are very proud to be partners with Mazdar on one side, but of course, going into different segments, whether it's residential, industrial, data centers and the like.

331
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:07,040
Now, for us, I think I will echo what Christian was saying and has been also mentioned by other participants that, you know,

332
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:18,040
we clearly believe that in today's world, while we are working on the new technologies, especially carbon capture and, you know, which is longer term,

333
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:24,040
what we need to, what we can act today is on demand side management.

334
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,040
I mean, energy efficiency is here today. We have technologies.

335
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:36,040
The best energy is the megawatt, the energy that we don't consume that much less we need to produce.

336
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Now, what we are, what we are, while we are talking about energy security and working on the transition,

337
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:54,040
let's also not forget that there is a huge part of the population, almost two billion people who don't have access to electricity.

338
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And, you know, here it's, you know, having access to electricity is a passport to life or a decent life.

339
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:11,040
And, you know, we have to see how we are able to bring energy to them, make access to energy to them, whether it's through, as you said,

340
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,040
it's about an affordability that we need to resolve.

341
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:24,040
And the good news is that while each one, you know, in the developed economies and the other economies, we need to migrate from, you know,

342
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from carbonized to decarbonized. Those who don't have, they can clearly leapfrog and start the world in a net zero right from the beginning.

343
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And that's possible thanks to renewables.

344
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Now, on the side of renewables, what we believe is the advent of digital is making the flow of energy and especially electricity very transparent.

345
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It is bringing visibility to energy, which was not there before.

346
00:28:54,040 --> 00:29:05,040
And I'm using energy and electricity in, you know, in the same tone because the future is more about electricity.

347
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:15,040
And as was again mentioned before, that the transition and the transformation is going to happen through demand side.

348
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And the more electricity we use, which is the best vector of decarbonization, it is going to help us move on the path of one point five degrees.

349
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:31,040
With electricity, the good news is it can be decentralized.

350
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And while we feel that, you know, through this, what is happening in terms of, you know, digitization of the grid and the availability of decentralized generation,

351
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:52,040
I would say that it is actually becoming an object. It's helping in the resilience.

352
00:29:52,040 --> 00:30:03,040
And I say that because if today you have a hub and spokes arrangement where if you're if something happens to your hub, your decentralized spoke can continue to work.

353
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:12,040
So actually with renewables and what is happening today, it is adding double resiliency on the contrary.

354
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,040
And that's how we see it.

355
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:24,040
And again, there are technologies which are able to help balance the flow of supply and demand thanks to the smart grid and the intelligent grid,

356
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:33,040
which is making it much more flexible. And and and that is what is going to ensure that, you know, we we lead this energy transition.

357
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:42,040
Thank you for that. And and so I'd like to do this final round with a lot of people in the room are are confused.

358
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:53,040
They don't know whether to think about hope because of all the technologies and all the capabilities or think about concern because of the catastrophes we're seeing and the fact that we're not going fast enough.

359
00:30:53,040 --> 00:31:02,040
And so I think in this final round, maybe each of you and I'll go in the same order can talk about your what gives you the most hope, what gives you the most concern.

360
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:11,040
And Christian, I don't want to lead the questioning, but a lot of people thought we were going to have much worse European energy crisis than we had this year.

361
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:20,040
You may want to touch upon that as well. But yeah, I think you have to say we got much better through the winter.

362
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:24,040
I think we all recognize it was a very warm winter, but it shouldn't mislead us.

363
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,040
Right. I think we have the challenges ahead of us. Right.

364
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:32,040
The next winter is coming. And also, I think the energy system in Europe in general is in jeopardy.

365
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:39,040
But there's hope. Right. I mean, I think the good thing is that we have options.

366
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,040
We have options to act. We have technology. We have money.

367
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,040
So there's a lot of things which can be done. Right.

368
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,040
And it's a massive opportunity. But we have to change the narrative.

369
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:53,040
We have to move decisively. You cannot act in the same way as before.

370
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:59,040
So in that regard, I think there's there's a lot of hope to tackle the problem.

371
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:06,040
But I think we are farmed. And it was said in the morning, we are far too much looking on resolving.

372
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,040
If I look to Europe, an energy crisis, which we perceived, which was this winter.

373
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:17,040
And it's not about that. We lacked for a long time in Europe, a long term energy strategy,

374
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building a resilient energy infrastructure. And that is not there.

375
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:28,040
This has to come. But if you get this act together and if you get bureaucracy out and if you get move faster,

376
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:34,040
we still have the means to resolve the problem. So I think it's a mixed picture.

377
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:39,040
It's on us to resolve it. Why I'm optimist is because we have options to act.

378
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:44,040
But it's not about this winter. It's about really building a resilient infrastructure.

379
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:50,040
And I tell you, we will have a supply and demand gap before 2030,

380
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,040
which is significant in terms of electricity supply in Europe.

381
00:32:54,040 --> 00:33:00,040
It's not possible as long as you don't continue to operate some of the plants you don't want to operate like coal.

382
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:05,040
So I think we are in a bigger problem than we may be perceived sometimes.

383
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:11,040
It was not just about resolving heating in the winter time. It's really rebuilding an energy system.

384
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,040
But if you act and if you move, we can tackle it.

385
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,040
So I like that, Francesco. So the hope, technology, money, opportunity.

386
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:29,040
And then the concern is the need for this long term strategy and infrastructure and investment changing things.

387
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:34,040
Francesco, hope, concern.

388
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:42,040
I cannot say I'm optimistic. I'm not optimistic. I don't care about it.

389
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:50,040
The only thing I know that the challenge that we have is externally.

390
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:56,040
I don't know if it's within our reach, honestly.

391
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:02,040
It would be much better if we started globally what Mazda started 20 years ago.

392
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,040
But we have been saying a lot of stupid things.

393
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:11,040
Renewables were niche. Renewables were uneconomical.

394
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,040
Renewables are intermittent.

395
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:18,040
Now we have realized that gas is intermittent.

396
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:23,040
That's what makes the intermintency be there.

397
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:29,040
It's not an intrinsic quality of the fuel, but it's the infrastructure that sustains the system.

398
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:34,040
So renewables can provide the base load, can do everything.

399
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:43,040
So what I can say is that we will offer to the government all the material we have

400
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,040
to make clear that the challenges are enormous.

401
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:56,040
And they have to act decisively if they want to maintain the hope to keep the promise of the Paris Agreement alive.

402
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:02,040
I think it's not wise to talk if the 1.5 is still there or the 2 degrees is challenging.

403
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:07,040
I don't think it's wise to enter in this kind of discussion.

404
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:16,040
We, as I said, and the Finnish, we want to be able to build a new narrative on how to close the gap and to act decisively.

405
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:20,040
And then there will be to the government to act.

406
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,040
Naturally, we have many things they are preparing for the COP.

407
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,040
With my friend Ramani and Iter, with Siemens, the Alliance for Industrial Reconciliation.

408
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:33,040
But this will be space for other debates where we will have not only two minutes.

409
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,040
Thank you so much.

410
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,040
And Mohamed, what gives you hope, what gives you concern?

411
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,040
I'm always hopeful. We are very positive.

412
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:56,040
I think what we have created over the past 20 years is we've created momentum, massive momentum that will never turn back.

413
00:35:56,040 --> 00:36:01,040
And this momentum is going through the journey of transition.

414
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:06,040
It is a long, long and bumpy journey for transition.

415
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,040
But we are going through that and we have created the momentum.

416
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,040
Few examples that are positive.

417
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:18,040
So, yes, whereas there is challenge, there is always an opportunity.

418
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,040
And I see these challenges creating humongous opportunities.

419
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,040
Supply chain issues created another opportunity.

420
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,040
The Inflation Reduction Act in the US.

421
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:35,040
Accelerating local industrial growth to supply that transition.

422
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,040
Which we were fully dependent on one place on earth.

423
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,040
Which was unsustainable, to be fully honest.

424
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:48,040
So these challenges are creating these opportunities.

425
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:52,040
The momentum is pushing forward with these opportunities.

426
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,040
But yes, it will be a bumpy ride and we are hopeful.

427
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,040
We are very hopeful and very positive.

428
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,040
What a terrific answer.

429
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:02,040
Never let a crisis go to waste.

430
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,040
Challenges produce opportunities.

431
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:09,040
Marco, what gives you hope? What gives you concern?

432
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,040
So just a few points. First of all, just to come back on COP26.

433
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:21,040
I'm actually optimistic because in COP, you know, if you went to Glasgow, they wanted to exclude the entire commodities to the producers.

434
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:29,040
And if you look at last year, you know, the oil producers, including governments or whatever, had over a trillion dollars of profit.

435
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:32,040
Without that money, there won't be a transition.

436
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,040
Because where is the money going to come from?

437
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,040
And I think that that industry was very much ready to engage.

438
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:43,040
And then when they kind of pointed finger at and saying, you're the bad guy, you shouldn't be here.

439
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,040
I think the result is that they're giving the money back to their shareholders.

440
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:56,040
So I think I'm hopeful that with the 26th, that industry will be invited to join the discussions with everyone else.

441
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:01,040
And I wouldn't be surprised if the industry come up with actually proposal to reduce emission in general.

442
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,040
The second point is expect volatility.

443
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:11,040
If you look at the Paris agreements and you look into 2050, we talk about net zero.

444
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:16,040
All demands expect to be in order to meet that target at 30 million miles a day.

445
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,040
Today is 100 million miles a day.

446
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,040
You can say 2050 is a long way to go.

447
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:29,040
But if you look at 2030, if you want to be in line with the Paris agreement, you should be producing worldwide about 70 million miles per day of oil.

448
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,040
People expect the demand to be closer to 100 million miles a day.

449
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:40,040
So what tends to happen is that there is no investment because there's so much uncertainty about transition that people don't invest in traditional,

450
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:44,040
in renewable, there's uncertainty at every level, which is impossible.

451
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:49,040
A 30 million miles a day difference in projected in eight years time is never heard of.

452
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,040
So expect a lot of volatility amongst all the different products.

453
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,040
The same is true for mining, for everything else.

454
00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:02,040
And then one of my last point is to say the truth is that there is different reality.

455
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:08,040
The reality of a 15 year old European looking at weather change is quite depressing.

456
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,040
He's going to think, I have no future.

457
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:20,040
But if you're like a 30 year old coal miner in South Africa where you need electricity to have to power your family and to power your house and everything else,

458
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,040
you're going to want to produce it today.

459
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:28,040
So we just have to accept that we can't just point finger at each other and keep on saying, you're right, you're wrong.

460
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,040
There are different realities, and that's the world we're in.

461
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:36,040
And we have to try building bridges as opposed to kind of try to have some shouting match.

462
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:42,040
And my last point about being optimistic pessimistic is that I wake up one morning and pessimistic.

463
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,040
The next day I'm optimistic. So I'm a traitor. So I kind of tend to fluctuate.

464
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:51,040
So I decided to stop even thinking about it. I said, I want to move into action.

465
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:55,040
I can afford to be active. We can act with speed and scale.

466
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,040
I led the debate for smarter people in us.

467
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,040
We just got into action. You know, we're carbon positive.

468
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,040
We're investing in transformation of the energy sector.

469
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:07,040
And that's all I can do at that stage.

470
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:10,040
Thank you so much for that.

471
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,040
Manish, you have the final word.

472
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,040
But I do like the point of the trillion dollars as an opportunity to be invested.

473
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:25,040
But it's also a responsibility for the industry to use that moment in this moment of windfall to invest in the future.

474
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:31,040
I kind of echo a lot of what has been said here by my colleagues.

475
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:40,040
You know, really hopeful the fact that there is technology available today and we are all acting together.

476
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:46,040
I think all the participants, all the stakeholders, there is no debate.

477
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:50,040
I think there is a clear direction that we have all chosen.

478
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:56,040
We have all committed to it ourselves, whether we are private companies working with the governments.

479
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,040
So that's something which is very positive.

480
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,040
And I remain an eternal optimist.

481
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:07,040
Now, the concern is about how quickly we are able to act.

482
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:10,040
And I think this was addressed a little bit earlier.

483
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:15,040
And also how we are able to drive the change of mindset,

484
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:20,040
which is very key to drive this adoption and scaling it faster.

485
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,040
Thank you for that.

486
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,040
And thank you to the audience for your attention.

487
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:33,040
I'll close by thanking the speakers, but also quoting my mentor who passed away recently,

488
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:37,040
Secretary Madeleine Albright, Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

489
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:43,040
When asked whether she was an optimist or a pessimist, she says, I'm always an optimist by an optimist who worries a lot.

490
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:48,040
And so if we worry a lot, we'll do the right things that will give us reason for optimism.

491
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:51,040
Thank you for joining us. Thank you to the great speakers.