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Welcome back to Pizzball when I say something.

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I'm going to say the camera never lies, but is that true?

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Take a look at this photograph.

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It's the winner of a Sony World Photography Award,

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but the artist who created it ended up rejecting his prize,

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I've read Mitting.

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He made it, you're using artificial intelligence.

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Well, the use of AI is seemingly everywhere these days,

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but the more it's used, the more debate it creates,

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just as afternoon as song that uses AI to clone the voices of Drake and the weekend

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to the biggest selling artists in the world,

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has been removed from streaming services after singing criticism

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from their music company over copyright laws.

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First, just have a listen to what they normally sound like.

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Well, now here's the AI version, a Drake in the Weekend.

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I'm absolutely fascinated.

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We're joining me now as next year at a music industry legend,

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and now the chief executive of T.C.

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or to catch a thief and anti-paracy business.

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And from Israel, a story in an is best thing all third sapiens,

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you've all know a horror.

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Well, welcome to both of you.

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And next year, a great piece of the metalligraph today,

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which you were quoted about this song and about that photograph,

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really, I think, demonstrating what a threat AI is to the creative arts.

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My question for you is, how serious do you think that threat is?

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And should it really matter, or is this in its own way,

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another form of art?

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Well, the threat is huge.

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We're on the edge of a precipice, and I'm not trying to be too dramatic here.

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It's come across so quickly as well. That's the point.

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This two tracks that you played, I think people need to understand.

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The original, it was done by Drake and the Weekend.

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The AI generator listens to all Drake and all Weekend,

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and then puts something together that comes out as the second track you played.

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So, it does no artist involved.

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It is completely generated.

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So, here's my question for you.

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I saw you tapping your fingers to the AI version.

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It's spontaneous, yeah.

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It's a good tune.

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Yeah.

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It's why should we care?

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Why does it matter?

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Why couldn't Drake and Weekend actually think you know what?

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This saves us a lot of work.

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Okay.

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Two things.

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One is, there's a British copyright law, which dates back to 1988.

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So, you could say it's a bit out of date, and it's being tinkered with.

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The other thing is passing off, which is not actually on the statute book.

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Passing off has been handed down through precedence who judges,

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and passing off is what this is.

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Which is why it's been removed exactly.

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What if Drake and the Weekend, like I said,

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what if they decided to adopt this technology

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to save the money to come up with new songs?

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Is that possible?

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No, I couldn't be a force for good.

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I know.

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Artists don't do that.

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Even if it was a big hit.

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It's a good song.

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Well, what if it was a kind of what you're suggesting?

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Yeah.

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Artists, and I'm sure of Drake was here, he would say,

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and he got very cross about another track that had been similarly dealt with.

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Artists want to do their own stuff.

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That's what they're in the game for.

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We've had situations in the past with groups who have been doing

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reports and samples and all the rest of it.

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Real artists want to do their music.

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I want to make it.

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I don't want anybody else.

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Well, what about the photograph, which was a beautiful photograph?

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So good, it won on a war before the guy who did it.

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Say, well, actually, A.I. created this.

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As a lover of great photography, why should we care if that's been done

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by artificial intelligence or by an actual human being?

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Because they've infringed.

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It was done from the Getty Library, wasn't it?

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And what they did, they went into the Getty Library,

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and they just picked it again.

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They scraped it all out and up it came.

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And they scraped it so well.

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So it's theft, basically.

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It's theft.

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Yeah, it's OK.

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Let me bring in Huvah.

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I want to start if I may, Huvah, by playing.

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This is a bit from Elon Musk talking to Tucker Carlson

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or Fox News last night.

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Very interesting, what he said.

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I'm going to start something which I think is called truth GBT or an

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maximum truth seeking AI that tries to understand the nature of the universe.

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And I think this might be the best path to safety in the sense that an AI that

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cares about understanding the universe is unlikely to annihilate humans

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because we are an interesting part of the universe.

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So you know, this came after he said that actually A.I.

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could lead to the end of humanity as we know it if we allowed,

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because it would be a superior intelligent force, which if it

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managed to break out from human control,

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could be the end of it.

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And that reminded me of a conversation I have with Professor Stephen Hawking

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in what was his last television interview, which he said this.

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Is artificial intelligence going to be the end of us?

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And if it's not, how do we best work with it?

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Ever since the start of the industrial revolution,

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there have been fears of mass unemployment as machines replaced humans.

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Instead, a demand for goats and services has risen in line with the increased capabilities.

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Whether his can continue indefinitely as an old new question,

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but there is a greater danger from artificial intelligence

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if we allow it to become self-designing.

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Further, can improve itself rapidly when we may lose control?

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So really interesting that Elon Musk really is now saying what Professor Hawking told me,

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you're an expert in this field, how worried should we be about artificial intelligence actually

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taking control? We should be very worried because what we need to understand about

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AI, artificial intelligence. It is the first tool that can make decisions by itself.

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On previous inventions in human history, always empowered us. They always gave us more power,

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because the decisions were always made by humans. If you invent a knife, the knife cannot decide

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whether to use it to cut salad or to murder somebody or to save their life in surgery.

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If you invent an atom bomb, similarly, the atom bomb cannot decide who to attack and when and where.

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AI is the first technology that can actually make decisions by itself. It can make decisions

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about its own usage and development. Newx cannot make better neux. But AI can make better in

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AI and also AI can make and does make decisions about us. Increasingly, when you apply to a bank,

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to get a loan, you apply to get a job, it's an AI making crucial decisions about your life.

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And we haven't seen anything yet. AI is just making its first tiny baby steps. It's something

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like 10 years old. You know, to really think about it, think about it as like, this is the beginning

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of organic life. For billion years ago, this is the first amiibo crawling out of the organic

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soup. Can you imagine how to run a zaro's Rex would look like or how homo sapiens would look like

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and what we'll be able to do. Okay, well, you look you successfully, you've got you successfully.

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Yeah, look, you successfully terrified me and probably all my viewers. So how do we save ourselves

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from the T-Rex of AI? Well, first of all, it can also of course be used for good and so far,

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we are still in control, but we don't know for how many years. And therefore, we need to

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first of all understand the capabilities of AI and slow down its deployment to make sure that we

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use it wisely and safely. You know, the same way that a drug company cannot just release a new medicine

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for the public without going through a very rigorous safety checks. It should be the same with AI.

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Right, because the problem is, here's the problem, it seems to me, which is, it's fine to be

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well-meaning. I mean Elon Musk, I think a lot of what he does, he's a force for good in many ways,

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you know, all the stuff he's been involved with is to try and I think help rather than damage the

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planet. But this AI intelligence is going to be getting the hands of some pretty bad people.

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It's been pretty good with regimes. And then I'm going to have any qualms about trying to get the edge

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over the West or America or wherever it may be. That's where I see the real danger.

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Is it, you know, a bit like nuclear weapons getting into rogue states' hands?

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Is it once the wrong people have control of this, then all help to break loose?

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In the hands of the wrong people, AI could be the end of democracy. AI could also be the basis

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for the worst totalitarian regimes in human history, because you know, dictators always dreamt

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about following everybody and monitoring everybody all the time. But they could never do it.

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Because even the Soviet Union, you have 200 million Soviet citizens, Stalin didn't have 200

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million KGB officers to follow everybody around all the time, and then to analyze all the

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millions of analysts to analyze all the data you collect. Okay, so now, now it's a AI.

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Now it is becoming possible. You don't need human agents to follow our answer round.

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Well, that was exciting. Our sound desk, which is two days all today, just crashed.

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So that's why we went off there, a little suddenly in the middle of that to debate about AI.

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As my mother texted me, oh my god, has AI taken over, which actually was a pretty good weather

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yet. So I'm rejoined, I hope for the by our two guests next to it is with me, and by you

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while in Israel, you've got my apologies, but there's something that departs from you there.

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We're just talking about the number of works when you need it. Yeah, I don't get easier. I mean,

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you can have a between sure. I'll continue to moment you've got a link just to round off.

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You were telling me a story in the break there about Oasis. Tell me what that was about.

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As I'm sure your viewers know Oasis, the Gallagher brothers broke up.

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Okay, there have been talk of reconciliation, but at the moment that's not on the table.

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If you go on YouTube, you will find something called Oasis, which is AI, SIS,

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talking about a lost album, an AI generator has made.

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Almost it like. It's uncannily good. Right, so if you were to Oasis fan, why would you not want that?

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No, what the answer is. Yes, you would. And so it, but I mean, in terms of bands that have ceased to

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work, I mean, with people go down the mood of trying to, I don't know.

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Got a bit of a hero thing.

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I mean, it's fascinating. Let's go to Uval finally. Uval give us,

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and on some hope here for us, all right. I need to feel more hopeful than,

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than I do right now, which is I basically think the world's going to end quite soon.

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And when these, when terminate, it comes real. Do you believe the, the planet has the right

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people in the right place to actually stop that happening? I hope so. What you know about the

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technology that, you know, you can use the same technology to build completely different societies.

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In the 20th century, some people used trains and radio and electricity to build totalitarian

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regimes like the Soviet Union, and other people used exactly the same technology to build

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democracies. It's the same with AI and with the technologies of the 21st century,

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we still have a choice about how to employ them. I think that AI is nowhere near, it's full potential.

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Yeah. But also human beings, our nowhere near are full potential. We don't really understand

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the full potential of our brains or our minds. If we invest, if for every dollar and every minute

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that we invest in developing AI will invest another dollar and minute in developing our own mind

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and our own consciousness, I think will be okay. Fascinating. You've all know, Harari, thank you

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so much, honestly. A gripping period. Apologies for the interruption.