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Shame to be an American where the fags can freely roam.

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They spread their filth around this land, every pervert calls it home.

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For several days I'd been living among the members of the Westboro Baptist Church,

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a fire and brimstone Christian group made up almost entirely of a single family.

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God hates the USA!

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Welcome to our picket!

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Since the Iraq war they've become infamous for picketing the funerals of dead soldiers

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as a protest against an America that tolerates homosexuality.

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Welcome back to Hannity and Combs.

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Members of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas have been protesting.

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America is doomed!

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God hates fags!

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Are you a homosexual? Are you or not?

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Shirley Phelps taught each of her 11 kids not just hate homosexuals.

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We're servants of the living God, hon. Where does it matter where we came from?

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But that all homosexuals should die.

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The Westboro Baptist Church is probably the most controversial church in America.

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Hush up! Hush up and obey your God!

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You're a sick, soulless, twisted human being.

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And for three weeks I'd be trying to fathom why they'd created such a strange ministry.

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Who was that one?

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Is this in the Bible?

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Fags eat feces?

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That's a fact, hon.

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The church is situated in a suburb of Topeka, Kansas.

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Its pastor is the family patriarch, Fred Phelps, also known as Gramps.

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Hi there. You must be Shirley.

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Yes.

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I'm Louis.

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Hi, Louis.

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How do you do?

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But in the last few years, the day-to-day operations have been run by the pastor's daughter, Shirley, a lawyer and mother to 11 children.

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So where are we?

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This is an office area, would we say?

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Yes, it is.

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Yes.

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So these are your signs. You've got God hates fags here.

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Uh-huh. And God hates you. Just don't think of fags as just those guys who are taking it up the tailpipe. Think of it as people who are involved in some perverted sex act. And I'm talking about anything other than one man, one woman in their marriage bed.

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So beneath that, are there gradations of iniquity, as it were?

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If you see a nation or a people who have risen up with one voice to say that it's okay to be gay, you're looking at a doomed people. Those people have crossed the line. When you say gay pride, you obviously have given over any trace or any notion that you're going to admit that you're sinning. You understand that, don't you? It's okay to be gay. It's an innocent alternate lifestyle.

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That's what I believe.

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Well, then you can't say, then you believe that it's not a sin.

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Yes.

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And so you condemn yourself, because by your words are you justified, and by your words are you condemned.

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But am I right in thinking, though, that Jesus actually wasn't a big thing for him? He had other priorities rather than homosexuality.

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And it's not one of the Ten Commandments, is it?

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Yes.

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Which one?

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Thou shalt not commit adultery.

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That's not being gay. It's cheating on someone.

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The streets of this nation are full of married men having fag sex. That's adultery. So don't try to pretend that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery just because you're a fag.

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Hi, guys.

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Hi.

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This is Gabriel.

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How do you do?

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Go put your stuff away.

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Grace.

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How do you do?

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This is Grace.

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Hi.

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For the last few years, the church has taken its message of God's hate to the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, reasoning that they were struck down by God for fighting for a depraved and doomed nation.

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So, um, so what is the plan today?

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The plan is, is that we'll get out here and put these signs in the air.

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At the funeral?

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Hon, you can call it that. But what they're doing here is they're worshipping the dead.

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You said you do research into the soldiers that have died?

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He was a staff sergeant, Kevin Ziegler, and he died of an IED.

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That's a, um...

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Roadside bomb.

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Right. An improvised explosive device.

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Exactly. It says his family was told that he and another soldier died while trying to disable the explosive. He was 31.

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Do you think it's possible that by getting in people's faces in this way, you're more likely to put people off the word of Jesus Christ in the Bible?

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Have you thought about that just in terms of human psychology?

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You think our job is to win souls to Christ.

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All we do, by getting in their face and putting these signs in front of them and these plain words, is make what was already in their heart come out of their mouth.

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What do you really think?

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This is what I really think.

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No, but you do, I mean, but you actually, there's a part of you that doesn't think that.

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No, there's not any part of me. The commandment has gone forth.

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Why go down there?

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America is doomed. Because we are the evil angels.

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Evil angels?

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Exactly. And it's not because we're evil people, but because we're bringing to you the message of the evil that God has determined upon you.

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And once we have delivered this message...

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I thought God didn't do evil.

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Oh, my goodness.

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Come on, guys. Let's get out of here. Let's bail.

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This is our corner. Come on, little boys.

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Zach, you hop in in case he wants you to stay.

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So, I'm going to keep a little bit of a distance because I'm not part of the picket.

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That's okay.

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Do you know what I mean?

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Sure.

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I'm just here as a journalist.

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Yes.

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Surely.

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Yes.

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Today's picket was at an intersection near a church in Kansas City, Missouri.

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Among the picketers was the pastor's wife, though of the pastor himself, there was no sign.

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Like many states across America, Missouri has established strict regulations in an attempt to limit the Phelps' contact with the bereaved.

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And I was relieved to see how far from the funeral the church members were required to be.

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God hates America!

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America is doomed!

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God, this is shameful.

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Yeah.

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Right down, shameful.

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Yeah.

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God, little kids like this, you guys need to be...

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You obviously raised your brat for the devil.

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You're a big gluttonous brat for the devil.

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And you're going to hell.

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You know, I don't agree with the lifestyle.

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I don't...

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You do.

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Yes, you do.

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Oh, yes, you do.

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You love fags.

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You hate God.

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So, just shut up.

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What was he talking about?

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He's talking about, I don't agree with fags, but, you know, que sera, sera.

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Fuck you!

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You think you can fix this?

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What, that?

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You think you're going to change God?

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You know why you're there, you fucking bitch?

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Because you are a rebellious brat!

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That's why.

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I mean, I've only been out here 25 minutes or so, but...

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So far, the reaction has been, I'd say, approximately 100% negative.

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Would you agree?

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Yeah, I would agree.

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Do you think maybe there's another way of delivering the message?

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Maybe, like, a letter of consolation to the family of the soldier?

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Oh, we send letters all the time, but not consolation.

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You angered the Lord your God, and now he's cursed your family.

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There's no consolation there.

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They're not going to have any consolation.

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As a picket today, how would you rate this out of 10?

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How many marks out of 10?

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And they're all 10s.

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All of them.

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Jacob, would you say 10 out of 10 as well, Jacob?

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Yeah, God did this.

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Therefore, it's perfect.

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Does everything get 10 out of 10 then, everything that happens?

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Everything.

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Yeah.

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Everything.

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Everything.

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Thank God for all of his judgments.

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Not one word falls to the ground.

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Yeah.

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A little later, Shirley and I regrouped the family homestead,

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where most of the 70 or so churchgoers live.

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So this is the center of the headquarters right here.

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We are, isn't it?

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You can call it that.

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What would you call it?

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I'd call it my backyard.

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But it's also the backyards of all these other houses.

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Well, there's actually real lines of demarcation.

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It's just because we took the fences down,

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so it would be a nice place to raise all these children.

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You don't live communally with the other members of the church then?

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No, no, no.

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And where does Pastor Phelps, the big man, the patriarch, where does he live?

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He lives on that second floor.

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Up there.

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You understand?

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In that building, you've got the house part kind of to this side,

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and you've got the church part to that side.

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Have you ever wondered whether you might be part of a cult?

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What exactly do you have to be to qualify as a cult?

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Well, basically, isn't it?

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It's like a fringe religious group

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that exercises an inordinate amount of control over its membership.

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You have to have certain other things also.

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Brainwashing or...

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Yes, yes, and your cult leader...

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A charismatic leader at the top,

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like maybe like Fred Phelps, your father, could qualify.

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Look, hon, I don't care about all that nonsense.

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I'm telling you that we're the ones

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who are strictly adhering to the doctrines of faith

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of all the mainline religions.

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They're not.

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We are.

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So what else you got?

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To help her run the ministry,

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Shirley relies on her two eldest daughters,

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Megan and Becca.

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This is Becca's room, okay?

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I don't see any posters of pop bands.

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No.

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Can we look in your closet?

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I guess you can.

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You have quite a lot of clothes.

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Yeah, pretty much.

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Are there rules about what you can and can't wear?

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Modesty.

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Our parents don't have to tell us.

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We know what we can and can't wear.

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Because we'll feel ashamed the other way.

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Because we know what's appropriate.

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How do the girls at your school dress?

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Um, one word.

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Whore.

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You agree?

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Mm-hmm.

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Same way.

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Yeah.

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And what do the other people at your school think of you?

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They hate us, but we're really nice.

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We're nice to everyone.

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Why do they hate you?

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Because they hate the message.

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Because we tell them they're going to hell.

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We tell them plainly that you can't live the way you're living

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and expect to go to heaven when you die.

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Should we do the next room?

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Yes.

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So, basically, your circle of friends is mainly or exclusively limited

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to people who are part of this church.

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Is that fair to say?

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Yeah.

227
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Could you...

228
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I mean, any friends out...

229
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Do you have any friends that are outside this group?

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Nobody that we consider a true friend,

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because friendship with the world is enmity with God.

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May I ask if you've had boyfriends, either of you?

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No, we haven't.

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Ooh.

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Why not?

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Because that's not what we're about in this life.

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We're not about serving ourselves.

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And we've never...

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It's temptation that's not needed,

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and it takes up time that we just don't have.

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When you come on with, like, a lot of the stuff about the Bible,

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is that some people might think you come off a tiny bit arrogant.

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If they're offended by the judgments that we make,

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that we make according to God's standard,

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then that is a clear indication that they hate God's Word, obviously,

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and that they're headed for hell.

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We're marching, we're marching,

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we are marching, Lord.

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We're marching, we're marching,

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we're marching to Zion, Lord.

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We're marching to Zion.

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The end of my first day at the church,

253
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and during a choir practice, I had a moment to reflect.

254
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,620
We're marching up, we're to Zion.

255
00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:17,540
Oh, the beautiful city of God.

256
00:12:18,340 --> 00:12:20,960
I felt I'd been bombarded with religious rhetoric,

257
00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,600
and that it was preventing me from getting to know the church members as people.

258
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,660
We're marching up, we're marching up.

259
00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:29,920
With the girls especially,

260
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,380
I sensed there was another side to their story,

261
00:12:32,820 --> 00:12:34,400
and I was curious to know more.

262
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:41,280
Beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful city,

263
00:12:42,020 --> 00:12:47,960
the beautiful city of God.

264
00:12:47,960 --> 00:13:03,280
The next day, and I was on my way to see Jael Phelps,

265
00:13:03,660 --> 00:13:05,960
niece to Shirley, cousin to Megan and Becca,

266
00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:08,600
and in her day job, a nurse in training.

267
00:13:09,140 --> 00:13:11,860
It would be a chance to meet another of the younger women,

268
00:13:11,860 --> 00:13:14,560
and also to ask about some of the family members

269
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:16,000
who were no longer in the church,

270
00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,660
having run off or been excluded.

271
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:22,480
Hi.

272
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:23,320
How are you doing?

273
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:23,640
Good.

274
00:13:23,740 --> 00:13:24,300
Can we come in?

275
00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:24,700
Uh-huh.

276
00:13:25,220 --> 00:13:26,920
Can you show us around a little bit?

277
00:13:27,060 --> 00:13:29,640
This is our, the computer study area.

278
00:13:30,220 --> 00:13:33,640
This is a picture of all the girls in the church when they were younger.

279
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:34,240
That's my grandma.

280
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:35,400
How about that? Let's see that.

281
00:13:35,420 --> 00:13:35,680
Uh-huh.

282
00:13:36,140 --> 00:13:36,700
Who's that?

283
00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:37,420
That's Kathy.

284
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:38,860
She's gone now.

285
00:13:38,980 --> 00:13:39,320
Yes.

286
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:40,340
And who's that?

287
00:13:40,660 --> 00:13:41,640
This is Betty.

288
00:13:41,860 --> 00:13:43,320
This is Fred Jr.'s wife.

289
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:44,580
This is my Aunt Liz.

290
00:13:45,300 --> 00:13:46,420
This is Dot.

291
00:13:47,380 --> 00:13:48,100
She's gone.

292
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:48,460
Right.

293
00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:49,940
This is Becky.

294
00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:51,060
That's my grandma.

295
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:55,120
This is her daughter, Sharon, who's also gone.

296
00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:57,140
Is everyone else going to stay, do you think?

297
00:13:57,460 --> 00:13:57,740
Who?

298
00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:58,800
Everybody else?

299
00:13:58,820 --> 00:13:59,100
Yeah.

300
00:13:59,440 --> 00:13:59,880
Yeah?

301
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:00,960
As far as we know.

302
00:14:02,260 --> 00:14:03,380
I think so.

303
00:14:03,380 --> 00:14:03,940
You're going to stay?

304
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:05,400
I'm going to stay, yes.

305
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:05,940
Do you like it?

306
00:14:06,060 --> 00:14:06,640
I love it.

307
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:07,760
Do you?

308
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:08,500
Yes, I do.

309
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:09,020
I really do.

310
00:14:09,020 --> 00:14:14,020
As far as you're concerned, those people that have gone away, they're going to hell?

311
00:14:14,540 --> 00:14:14,940
Yeah.

312
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:15,800
Yeah.

313
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:17,260
What if you don't believe in the Bible?

314
00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:18,880
Well, then you're going to hell.

315
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:22,080
So I'm going to hell?

316
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:23,260
Yes, Louie, you are.

317
00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:24,000
You're going to hell.

318
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:27,480
You are.

319
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:29,980
Anyways, this is my room.

320
00:14:34,060 --> 00:14:34,660
Ta-da!

321
00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:36,340
There's pictures everywhere.

322
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:37,900
And then what is this one?

323
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:38,720
Oh, you like it?

324
00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:39,260
Yeah.

325
00:14:39,660 --> 00:14:41,940
It's the wrath of God is revealed from heaven.

326
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:42,500
It's awesome.

327
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,300
Do you think that's what it might look like when, you know what I mean, scripture is fulfilled?

328
00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:51,680
That kind of thing that you, and other similar things, natural disasters, it's going to get

329
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,420
more and worse and it's going to be so awesome.

330
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,200
Has there ever been a time when you felt tempted?

331
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,220
I don't want to talk about that.

332
00:15:01,220 --> 00:15:02,760
I don't think it's appropriate.

333
00:15:02,980 --> 00:15:07,000
I'm not going to dwell on anything inappropriate, if I can possibly help it.

334
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:08,560
I'll take that as a yes.

335
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:11,280
I'm not going to answer that question.

336
00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:19,460
We're going to seek that which is good and abhor that which is evil.

337
00:15:20,460 --> 00:15:24,680
And so that's why we're not going to dwell and tell you about every single sin that we

338
00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:26,180
ever did in our life.

339
00:15:26,180 --> 00:15:29,600
It's not sinful to get married, is it?

340
00:15:29,740 --> 00:15:32,480
And if you wanted to do that, then how do you do that?

341
00:15:32,860 --> 00:15:34,880
Well, first of all, I don't think that's ever going to happen.

342
00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:36,040
Why wouldn't that happen?

343
00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:36,800
Are you kidding me?

344
00:15:37,180 --> 00:15:37,940
Are you kidding me?

345
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,960
Because I'm J.L. Phelps and I serve God.

346
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:41,540
That's why.

347
00:15:42,580 --> 00:15:43,260
That's why.

348
00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:48,900
And I'm not going to go seeking after that, because it's foolishness.

349
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,960
Your father, Jonathan, he got married.

350
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:51,480
He did.

351
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:54,220
Your grandfather, Gramps, he got married.

352
00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:54,860
They really did.

353
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:55,420
Shirley got married.

354
00:15:55,420 --> 00:15:55,660
They really did.

355
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,120
And so why should you be any different?

356
00:15:57,460 --> 00:16:02,060
Well, Louie, we're living in the last of the last days.

357
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:03,240
Time is very short.

358
00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:04,640
Well, so I was going to say that, but you could...

359
00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,760
Times are very different than what they were 15 years ago.

360
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,080
There could, but I'm not going to plan it.

361
00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:12,900
And I'm not going to seek after it.

362
00:16:13,820 --> 00:16:15,200
I'm not going to dwell on it.

363
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,700
It's not my interest.

364
00:16:18,180 --> 00:16:19,400
It's not my focus.

365
00:16:20,980 --> 00:16:25,960
I'm a dumb young girl, but I'm not that dumb and goofy to go...

366
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,420
It's so silly.

367
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,180
I'm not going to talk.

368
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:30,260
I don't want to talk about it anymore.

369
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:31,680
Okay?

370
00:16:32,980 --> 00:16:34,920
So, I don't want to go there.

371
00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:43,460
That afternoon, I had an appointment to see Steve Drain.

372
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,740
He was unusual in not having been born into the group.

373
00:16:46,740 --> 00:16:47,740
Hey.

374
00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:48,740
Hey.

375
00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:49,880
How's it going, guys?

376
00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:50,740
Are you Steve?

377
00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:51,300
I am.

378
00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:52,440
How are you doing?

379
00:16:52,620 --> 00:16:53,220
I'm doing good.

380
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:54,740
I'm Louie.

381
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:55,300
Hi, Louie.

382
00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:55,940
Nice to meet you.

383
00:16:55,980 --> 00:17:01,200
As part of his service to the church, Steve handles online media and is an all-round helper

384
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,000
to the man he now calls Gramps.

385
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:04,840
So, what would you like to show me?

386
00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:06,300
You want to see how we make signs?

387
00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:08,460
The famous signs, the controversial signs.

388
00:17:08,460 --> 00:17:08,500
The famous signs.

389
00:17:08,620 --> 00:17:09,320
God hates facts.

390
00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:13,380
But in his old life, I'd heard he and I had something in common.

391
00:17:14,060 --> 00:17:18,000
Is it true that you first came here as a documentary filmmaker?

392
00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:18,880
Yes.

393
00:17:19,180 --> 00:17:21,900
So, you brought your family here all the way from Florida.

394
00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:22,320
Mm-hmm.

395
00:17:22,580 --> 00:17:24,080
And are you glad you did that?

396
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:24,800
Absolutely.

397
00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:28,200
It's the only thing that I, at the end of the day, can say that I'm really, really glad

398
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:28,680
that I did.

399
00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:29,720
Really?

400
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:30,420
Mm-hmm.

401
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,560
Is Gramps a disciple of God?

402
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,120
Anybody who has a sincere message, an ambassador from God,

403
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,060
preaching a sincere message of God, is a prophet.

404
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,000
Gramps is a prophet, as are all of these other people around about here.

405
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:48,280
So, these are some of the ones, these are ones, some of these are kind of random, aren't they?

406
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:49,680
Well, they're not random.

407
00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:50,540
This one.

408
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:54,300
Liz Taylor.

409
00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:55,780
Of course she's a fag lover.

410
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:57,280
Of course she is.

411
00:17:57,500 --> 00:17:58,620
And Desmond Tutu.

412
00:17:58,620 --> 00:17:59,020
Oh.

413
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,200
How do you choose?

414
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,840
He's a, he can't help but lie about the scripture every single time he opens his mouth.

415
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,260
How do you choose who you're going to make a sign about?

416
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,180
Well, look, there's no logic here.

417
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:10,500
Actually, there's plenty of logic.

418
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:17,280
Anybody who's in the news, who supports the filthy fag agenda, will go make a sign about.

419
00:18:17,420 --> 00:18:20,580
Did you feel this way about homosexuality before you came here?

420
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,380
No, of course not.

421
00:18:21,380 --> 00:18:22,580
Wait, what was your feeling?

422
00:18:22,580 --> 00:18:24,080
I was the smartest man in the world.

423
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,500
I embraced the philosophy of libertarianism.

424
00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:27,220
I was the monster.

425
00:18:27,220 --> 00:18:29,880
You were also the, it's fine, it's okay to be gay.

426
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:30,640
I was a genius.

427
00:18:31,140 --> 00:18:31,760
What is this?

428
00:18:31,940 --> 00:18:32,660
Look at this.

429
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:34,440
That's a little offensive.

430
00:18:34,780 --> 00:18:35,500
Oh, well, terrible.

431
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:39,680
You know, people in Britain consider her an icon.

432
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,640
She split hell wide open when she died.

433
00:18:42,940 --> 00:18:46,560
She's a fag enabler and she'll be in hell for all of eternity.

434
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:47,340
You know why?

435
00:18:47,660 --> 00:18:48,020
You know why?

436
00:18:48,060 --> 00:18:49,240
Are we talking about Princess Diana?

437
00:18:49,420 --> 00:18:50,500
I can't believe my ears.

438
00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:51,520
Oh my goodness gracious.

439
00:18:55,860 --> 00:19:01,560
In addition to the funeral pickets, the church also does a multitude of local pickets of churches

440
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:03,820
and other targets chosen by the pastor.

441
00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:08,740
So where are we actually going to now?

442
00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:13,000
We're going to a picket here at the Jew church.

443
00:19:13,260 --> 00:19:15,500
The, what did you say?

444
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:16,560
The Jew church.

445
00:19:16,700 --> 00:19:19,320
That sounds a little anti-Semitic when you say the Jew church.

446
00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:20,980
These people hate God.

447
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:22,260
They worship the rectum.

448
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:23,480
The rectum?

449
00:19:23,660 --> 00:19:24,240
No, the rectum.

450
00:19:24,860 --> 00:19:26,700
That sounds insane when you say that.

451
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:26,720
It does?

452
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:27,220
Yeah.

453
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,380
They worship that which they desire.

454
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:30,820
That makes them feel good.

455
00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:31,640
Why did you feel that?

456
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:32,700
It's an expression of the flesh.

457
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:33,740
It's a metaphor?

458
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,340
You take, of course it is.

459
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,780
Idolatry, fornication, all manner of sexual perversion go hand in hand, Louis.

460
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:41,660
They all go hand in hand.

461
00:19:41,940 --> 00:19:44,980
We're talking about callous defiance against God Almighty.

462
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,920
The Jews killed Christ.

463
00:19:47,580 --> 00:19:50,600
You're going to try to say they worship the same God as I worship?

464
00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:51,800
They killed Christ.

465
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:52,740
What do you, what do you, what do you.

466
00:19:52,740 --> 00:19:54,960
News slash brainiac, Christ was Jewish.

467
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,980
What I'm trying to tell you, brainiac, is Christ was God.

468
00:19:57,980 --> 00:20:02,340
They were living in a Jewish area, so of course the Jewish people were involved,

469
00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:03,360
but a lot of them weren't involved.

470
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:04,060
They were involved?

471
00:20:04,300 --> 00:20:05,140
What do you mean they were involved?

472
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,120
They called for his crucifixion.

473
00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:08,140
The Romans did it, not the Jews.

474
00:20:08,140 --> 00:20:10,200
Their crucifixion, the Jews did it.

475
00:20:10,460 --> 00:20:12,300
They live in callous defiance of the scripture.

476
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,360
And I got to warn them about it, Louis.

477
00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:17,000
It's my unction.

478
00:20:17,140 --> 00:20:17,660
Cry aloud.

479
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:18,200
Spare not.

480
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:19,640
Lift up thy voice like a trumpet.

481
00:20:19,820 --> 00:20:21,260
Show my people their transgression.

482
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:22,860
You see these wonderful signs.

483
00:20:22,980 --> 00:20:23,860
God hates fags.

484
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:24,900
Temple Beth, Sodom.

485
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:26,500
Jew fags.

486
00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:27,860
God is USA's terrorist.

487
00:20:27,980 --> 00:20:28,920
Look at God hates America.

488
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,020
These are wonderful signs.

489
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:30,820
Fag troops.

490
00:20:31,940 --> 00:20:41,940
America, America, God showed his wrath to thee.

491
00:20:41,940 --> 00:20:52,940
He cursed this land with his own hand and showed his sovereignty.

492
00:20:52,940 --> 00:21:00,700
That evening, Steve had invited me to drop in on a special taping of one of the church's

493
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:01,860
online sermons.

494
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:03,420
Everything okay, Steve?

495
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:10,560
Hinting that there might be an opportunity to have my first face-to-face with Pastor Phelps.

496
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:12,160
Hey, everything okay?

497
00:21:12,540 --> 00:21:13,220
Yeah, everything's fine.

498
00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:16,880
Yeah, we just wanted to make sure that we got our technical difficulties straightened from

499
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:17,120
yesterday.

500
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:17,960
Everything cool?

501
00:21:18,180 --> 00:21:18,320
Yep.

502
00:21:18,460 --> 00:21:19,940
Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve.

503
00:21:19,940 --> 00:21:21,800
Come on.

504
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:25,840
You don't, where have you gone?

505
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:26,320
Hello?

506
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:27,240
Right this way.

507
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:27,500
Where are you?

508
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:28,020
Right here.

509
00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:28,600
All right.

510
00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:29,360
What's going on?

511
00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:31,880
Yep, yep.

512
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,660
Why don't you go ahead and, why don't you go ahead and.

513
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:35,600
Hi, guys.

514
00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:36,380
How do you do?

515
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:38,720
I'm Louis.

516
00:21:39,140 --> 00:21:39,520
Hi, Louis.

517
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:40,160
From the BBC.

518
00:21:40,540 --> 00:21:40,840
Yes.

519
00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:42,420
You must be Pastor Fred Phelps.

520
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:42,860
Yes.

521
00:21:43,220 --> 00:21:43,880
Very pleased to meet you.

522
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:44,560
Glad to see you, Louis.

523
00:21:44,620 --> 00:21:45,200
What is happening?

524
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,000
You'll get, just pay attention, pay close attention.

525
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,840
Billy Graham, hell-bound false prophet.

526
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:56,820
I've known Billy Graham more than 50 years.

527
00:21:57,620 --> 00:22:02,180
And Billy, you are headed straight and irreversibly for hell.

528
00:22:02,580 --> 00:22:07,060
You are a lying, money-grubbing, Armenian heretic.

529
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:12,800
At 88, Graham will soon die and split hell wide open.

530
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:17,940
And Westboro Baptist Church will picket your funeral.

531
00:22:18,980 --> 00:22:19,380
Amen.

532
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,340
Thanks, Gramps.

533
00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:21,840
That was awesome.

534
00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:22,760
Can you make sure?

535
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:23,540
Okay, guys.

536
00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:24,280
What do you want?

537
00:22:24,420 --> 00:22:30,220
I mean, you are basically the pastor of the church and the pete familias of the whole group.

538
00:22:30,260 --> 00:22:36,080
Didn't you see that newspaper store down at the bottom of the stairs?

539
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,600
No, we were hoping Steve was going to give us a little tour downstairs and then he was in such a rush.

540
00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:41,960
What was that all about?

541
00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:42,860
We've got a schedule to keep.

542
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:44,180
You're here to shoot us.

543
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:45,680
We're not here to cater to you.

544
00:22:45,780 --> 00:22:46,620
We've got a schedule to keep.

545
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,040
There's a pretty big family here.

546
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,840
How many children do you have?

547
00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:53,820
Don't bother me with that kind of a silly question.

548
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,080
Get to some stuff that I'm the only one that can answer.

549
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:58,540
Then we'll have a good interview here.

550
00:22:58,780 --> 00:23:00,560
In fact, were we supposed to have an interview?

551
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,120
You serpent oxygen.

552
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,840
Can we have an interview?

553
00:23:07,220 --> 00:23:07,820
Not now.

554
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:08,340
Not now.

555
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:09,260
No, not now.

556
00:23:09,340 --> 00:23:13,180
You were saying how many children you have?

557
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:15,400
Hey, guys.

558
00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:16,600
Let's go on downstairs.

559
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:17,400
You already answered that question.

560
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:23,220
Everybody in the civilized world knows how many children I've got and how many grandchildren and how many great-grandchildren.

561
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,860
Is he stalling for time or what is this?

562
00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:28,140
Should we go downstairs?

563
00:23:28,660 --> 00:23:28,900
Yep.

564
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:29,860
Thank you for having us.

565
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:30,200
Sure.

566
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,560
Glad to see you guys.

567
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:36,460
There's an article he was talking about, Time magazine.

568
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:37,100
Did that go okay?

569
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:37,860
Yeah, it went great.

570
00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:40,140
What is the big deal about asking how many children?

571
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:45,600
He probably would have had more time for you right there if you had some kind of sincere and relevant theological questions.

572
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:46,780
But as far as...

573
00:23:46,780 --> 00:23:48,140
That was a sincere question.

574
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,300
You can't fault me on that.

575
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,960
I sincerely was curious to know his answer to the question, how many children do you have?

576
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,280
You already knew how many children he had.

577
00:23:55,420 --> 00:24:00,540
Yeah, but I wanted to know how many he would say that he had because I know that he had 13 but that four have fallen away.

578
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,680
Well, you know that he has 13 and that four have fallen away.

579
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:05,640
There's your answer.

580
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:06,900
But I was looking for...

581
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:08,740
I wanted to hear what he had to say about it.

582
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,140
He told you what he had to say on it.

583
00:24:10,460 --> 00:24:12,040
You want us to say it a certain way?

584
00:24:12,420 --> 00:24:14,440
No, I just wanted to know how many he would say.

585
00:24:14,540 --> 00:24:23,820
You have the guy who has by far, head and shoulders, more scriptural knowledge, knowledge of the Bible, knowledge of the moral realm,

586
00:24:23,820 --> 00:24:30,340
of anybody who's crawling all over this earth like ants on a banana, and you ask him some silly, dull question like that...

587
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:30,800
How many children are there?

588
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,360
Man, you're wasting your opportunity, dude.

589
00:24:33,660 --> 00:24:34,540
That's all I've got to say.

590
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,380
The next day, and I joined Shirley as she did her afternoon school run.

591
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:45,100
Where are we going, Shirley?

592
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:46,820
I'm going over here to pick up the children.

593
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,760
By now I had sensed how impregnable the beliefs of the church members are,

594
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,240
and I wanted to understand how that faith is instilled in the children of the family.

595
00:24:56,220 --> 00:24:58,100
And they go to normal schools.

596
00:24:58,220 --> 00:25:00,120
I'm surprised they're not homeschooled in a way.

597
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,340
There's two reasons that we can't do that.

598
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,920
The first one is I couldn't do the job justice.

599
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:11,420
And the second is because these children need to be in the faces of this community

600
00:25:11,420 --> 00:25:13,360
because that is part of our testimony.

601
00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:16,560
Do they sort of preach at school at all?

602
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:16,700
No.

603
00:25:16,980 --> 00:25:17,220
No.

604
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,620
Only their presence, only like their walking picket signs,

605
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,660
they see these kids and they think God hates fags,

606
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,240
or America is doomed, or anything like that.

607
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,260
Do they have friends at the schools?

608
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,420
Well, they have friendly acquaintances.

609
00:25:31,980 --> 00:25:33,480
I don't know if you'd call them friends.

610
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,620
I don't know what really constitutes a friend.

611
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:37,120
And they can bring them home?

612
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,580
You think these kids are going to want to come to our house?

613
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,300
That's very nice.

614
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:42,000
Yeah.

615
00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:43,500
Where would that go?

616
00:25:43,940 --> 00:25:46,100
Pretty quick, you're going to get into the discussions.

617
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:49,980
But on the other hand, that's how I met my husband.

618
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,000
He hung out with my brother.

619
00:25:52,380 --> 00:25:54,180
Sounds like you haven't made up your own mind.

620
00:25:54,620 --> 00:26:00,600
I'm saying that when they turn up, when they come around, they're welcome.

621
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,200
Could they bring girlfriends or boyfriends home?

622
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:09,860
I would not have my kids calling themselves dating anyone or doing any activities that

623
00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:13,340
would remotely resemble what this generation calls dating.

624
00:26:13,740 --> 00:26:15,500
To what end would they do that?

625
00:26:17,180 --> 00:26:18,700
What would be the purpose?

626
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:20,680
So they can fornicate?

627
00:26:20,820 --> 00:26:21,040
Fun.

628
00:26:21,820 --> 00:26:22,300
Fun?

629
00:26:22,540 --> 00:26:23,760
Is that equal fornicating?

630
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,180
Fun, not necessarily.

631
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,500
Well, what does it equal?

632
00:26:27,780 --> 00:26:28,340
What does it equal?

633
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:29,740
Having fun.

634
00:26:30,120 --> 00:26:30,580
Having fun.

635
00:26:30,660 --> 00:26:31,420
Holding hands.

636
00:26:31,420 --> 00:26:32,720
Holding hands.

637
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:33,720
No.

638
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,580
Sending little notes to each other?

639
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:36,900
Uh, just what?

640
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,740
So you can teach them how to fornicate later?

641
00:26:40,540 --> 00:26:42,020
So they can learn early?

642
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,560
You've already got fornication on the brain.

643
00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:45,140
I know, hon.

644
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,200
That's because that's what this generation's all about.

645
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:48,000
Fornicating.

646
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:56,860
One of the pickets that afternoon was outside a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners.

647
00:26:56,860 --> 00:27:04,320
Apparently Swedish authorities imprisoned a local pastor for preaching against homosexuality,

648
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,940
which was enough to make the whole nation a target.

649
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,300
I'd seen some of the youngest members of the clan holding placards,

650
00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:15,400
and I wondered how much of the message they actually understood.

651
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,760
How old are you, Shirley?

652
00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:20,780
Seven.

653
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:21,480
Seven.

654
00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:23,400
Do you know what the sign means?

655
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:25,480
No.

656
00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:26,700
No.

657
00:27:27,980 --> 00:27:28,540
Shirley?

658
00:27:29,540 --> 00:27:31,100
She doesn't know what it means.

659
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:41,880
Fags, troops, flags, symbols, they're all idols that this nation worships above God.

660
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,720
Does that help you at all, or have I said a lot of words that were too big?

661
00:27:48,660 --> 00:27:53,380
Maybe she's just out here making up numbers, you know, because she doesn't really get it.

662
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,660
Noah, do you know what fag troops are?

663
00:27:56,580 --> 00:27:56,940
Yeah.

664
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:57,620
What?

665
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,520
It's this nation of these fags.

666
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,900
It's the nation of fags.

667
00:28:04,220 --> 00:28:05,720
That's what fag troops mean.

668
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,100
It is a nation of fags, that's right.

669
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:08,980
Wait, wait, wait.

670
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,740
You're not going to let them get away with that, are you?

671
00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:12,200
I'm not going to, I'm not going to.

672
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,120
Fags, soldiers.

673
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:14,820
Okay, fags, soldiers.

674
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,580
I'm sort of glad that they don't understand it better.

675
00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:19,040
Well, you understand.

676
00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:25,240
Noah, do you know what else you could be besides a fag to be in trouble with God and be included

677
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:25,960
in that sign?

678
00:28:26,260 --> 00:28:28,580
If you're not just a fag, but what else?

679
00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:29,420
Abroad.

680
00:28:29,420 --> 00:28:40,020
I'm Swedish in and soldiers in.

681
00:28:40,060 --> 00:28:40,820
But what are you?

682
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,300
If you're not a practicing fag, what are you?

683
00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:45,820
What if you support fags?

684
00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:46,780
What does that make you?

685
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:48,280
You're a dyke.

686
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:55,600
You could say what you're really doing is grooming him into the weird behavior that is characteristic

687
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:56,280
of your group.

688
00:28:56,620 --> 00:28:59,740
I mean, if you want to explain your moral outlook to him, you could do that in a classroom.

689
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,860
Are you calling our service to our God weird behavior?

690
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,220
Is that what you just did?

691
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:05,740
Yes.

692
00:29:05,740 --> 00:29:10,400
You don't get to call our service to God weird and thereby make it so.

693
00:29:11,980 --> 00:29:14,220
Your statement doesn't make it right.

694
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:15,540
Doesn't make it a fact.

695
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,420
The world calls it weird.

696
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,540
I don't care what the world, yes.

697
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:20,900
And the world hates us.

698
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:21,160
Hello.

699
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,140
Are we going to take my car?

700
00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:27,860
The next morning I was with Megan.

701
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,440
Phelps' family members are expected to hold down mainstream jobs and give 10% of their income

702
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,180
to the church.

703
00:29:34,180 --> 00:29:38,240
Many work as lawyers and Megan was hoping to follow in that tradition.

704
00:29:38,820 --> 00:29:39,560
So where are we going?

705
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,500
We are going to Washburn.

706
00:29:42,340 --> 00:29:43,180
We're going to a university.

707
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:45,580
That's the university you go to.

708
00:29:45,780 --> 00:29:46,560
Yes, yes it is.

709
00:29:47,140 --> 00:29:47,920
It's lovely.

710
00:29:48,380 --> 00:29:49,040
Good stuff.

711
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:49,840
Totally.

712
00:29:50,540 --> 00:29:52,300
Do you want to be a lawyer as well then?

713
00:29:52,820 --> 00:29:53,320
Yes, I do.

714
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:54,780
Like so many of your aunts and uncles?

715
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,620
Yeah, I'm the other one in my generation that wants to be a lawyer.

716
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,680
By now the church members had learned a little about my life.

717
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,960
And they knew that I'd had a child with my partner out of wedlock.

718
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,580
A detail which seemed to put me in the firing line.

719
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,460
Do you like going to the pickets?

720
00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:13,020
Yeah.

721
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:14,220
Are you kidding?

722
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:16,460
It must get kind of old though.

723
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,360
You don't get tired of all the sins, pursuing your sins and your lusts.

724
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:20,580
Do I?

725
00:30:20,580 --> 00:30:22,160
It's like I say you don't.

726
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:22,720
Don't I?

727
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:23,860
Because you keep doing it.

728
00:30:24,180 --> 00:30:25,700
Are you talking about me specifically?

729
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,400
You or everybody else.

730
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:28,800
You don't get tired of serving your lusts.

731
00:30:28,860 --> 00:30:30,260
I don't get tired of serving my God.

732
00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:35,100
So should I be killed for having extramarital intercourse?

733
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:37,660
According to the Mosaic Code?

734
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:38,000
Yeah.

735
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:39,880
Actually, I'm not sure.

736
00:30:39,980 --> 00:30:40,420
I think so.

737
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,380
I think I know what adultery is.

738
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:43,240
Wow.

739
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:44,940
And homosexuality was.

740
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,480
You want to see me killed for that.

741
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,360
I want to tell you the truth.

742
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:50,360
This is interesting.

743
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,520
This is actually where you go to college, isn't it?

744
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:52,860
Yes.

745
00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:54,680
You don't have any friends here?

746
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:55,240
No.

747
00:30:55,820 --> 00:30:56,040
Really?

748
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:56,980
I have acquaintances.

749
00:30:57,300 --> 00:30:58,560
You know, people I go to school with.

750
00:30:58,600 --> 00:30:59,320
They're not my friends.

751
00:30:59,460 --> 00:31:01,200
Do you have any acquaintances that you like?

752
00:31:01,780 --> 00:31:02,480
Any acquaintances?

753
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:03,840
You mean, like, on a humanistic level?

754
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:04,520
That are friendly?

755
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:04,900
Mm.

756
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:05,360
Yeah?

757
00:31:05,820 --> 00:31:06,480
Any guys?

758
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:07,640
Yes.

759
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:09,860
What do you want me to say?

760
00:31:11,420 --> 00:31:13,500
If you saw a guy in one of your classes

761
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:16,500
and you thought he seemed nice and had potential or whatever,

762
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,740
and he said, you know, do you want to get a coffee?

763
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:20,580
What would you do?

764
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,260
Actually, that has happened before.

765
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,020
And I said, no, I'm sorry.

766
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:24,540
I'm busy.

767
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:24,940
Why?

768
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:27,140
Because I have other things to do.

769
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:27,920
What was his name?

770
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:29,480
I don't even remember.

771
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,700
Do you really?

772
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:31,200
Yeah.

773
00:31:31,460 --> 00:31:32,220
He was actually...

774
00:31:32,220 --> 00:31:32,520
Yeah.

775
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:33,120
What?

776
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:33,640
Robert.

777
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:34,480
Robert.

778
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:34,960
Robert.

779
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:37,180
I think.

780
00:31:37,420 --> 00:31:38,200
Is that someone you know?

781
00:31:38,620 --> 00:31:39,020
No.

782
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,200
He looks like the guy that asked me out.

783
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:42,480
Sorry.

784
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,580
It's kind of gooey, isn't it?

785
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:45,520
It's kind of gooey.

786
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,540
But I know young women sometimes think about these things.

787
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:56,340
Most women also have a whole lot of lust and fornication

788
00:31:56,340 --> 00:31:59,100
and do a whole lot of things that we don't do.

789
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:00,360
Why do you have to put it like that?

790
00:32:00,420 --> 00:32:02,160
Why can't you say, make love?

791
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,040
Because you're trying to make it seem like something that it isn't.

792
00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:07,080
That's not what these people do.

793
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,180
That's not what you're doing.

794
00:32:09,380 --> 00:32:10,000
What do you mean?

795
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:10,200
What?

796
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:10,540
I'm sorry.

797
00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:11,840
Because you're not married.

798
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:14,800
Get married, see?

799
00:32:15,500 --> 00:32:17,720
You seriously wouldn't mind if you never got married

800
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:20,560
and you never experienced everything that represents?

801
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:22,240
No.

802
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:23,560
It wouldn't bother you?

803
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:24,300
No.

804
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:25,760
On a human level, it wouldn't.

805
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:27,020
You think so?

806
00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:36,080
It shakes it up a bit when there's more than one.

807
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,840
And so my days at the church wore on.

808
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,800
As the time passed, I could feel myself being absorbed into the family.

809
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:53,220
As hateful as they could be at the pickets,

810
00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:57,900
among themselves, the church members had made a life that in many ways was quite appealing.

811
00:32:58,860 --> 00:33:03,880
Almost as though their bond with each other had been strengthened by the hostility of the outside world.

812
00:33:07,260 --> 00:33:10,880
With the girls, I began to see a more human side to their personalities.

813
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:25,420
And it was easy to become desensitized to their message.

814
00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:28,640
And how provocative it really is.

815
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:33,140
And that we all...

816
00:33:33,140 --> 00:33:34,720
See, they covered their license plate.

817
00:33:36,020 --> 00:33:37,600
So I don't know what they were up to.

818
00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:38,700
Uh-oh, did they hit somebody?

819
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:41,540
Is he okay?

820
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:44,380
Is he okay?

821
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:48,260
I'm sorry, hon.

822
00:33:50,420 --> 00:33:52,280
Well, and they had the license plate down.

823
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:53,640
You all right, honey?

824
00:33:56,820 --> 00:33:57,460
Hey, bud.

825
00:33:57,580 --> 00:33:58,440
You got it all over.

826
00:33:58,920 --> 00:33:59,560
Hey, bud.

827
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:00,760
I'm sorry, hon.

828
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,300
I knew they had to have done something.

829
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,540
I am so sorry.

830
00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:10,320
You want to go over here and talk to your daddy?

831
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:11,760
I'm sorry.

832
00:34:12,900 --> 00:34:13,500
Hey, hey.

833
00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:14,260
You want your sign?

834
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,460
Hey, let me wipe that off of you real quick, okay?

835
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:18,900
I'm sorry.

836
00:34:19,380 --> 00:34:20,380
Megan, can you...

837
00:34:20,380 --> 00:34:20,840
Let's just...

838
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,840
They're such cowards.

839
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,940
Who would hit a child?

840
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:25,420
Who would do that?

841
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:30,700
It looks like here, Tim.

842
00:34:30,700 --> 00:34:31,700
I know, I'm looking at the...

843
00:34:31,700 --> 00:34:31,980
You see that?

844
00:34:31,980 --> 00:34:32,720
I know, I'm looking at the...

845
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:33,540
His eyes.

846
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,240
As you see, that colour, that's what was in that cup.

847
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:40,320
So it obviously got around on him.

848
00:34:40,660 --> 00:34:41,080
All right.

849
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:42,160
You okay?

850
00:34:42,700 --> 00:34:45,540
Seeing seven-year-old Elisha get hit by a drink

851
00:34:45,540 --> 00:34:48,220
was a reminder that among the victims of the Phelps

852
00:34:48,220 --> 00:34:49,640
were their own children.

853
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:58,320
It was Sunday, and I'd been invited along to a church service.

854
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,660
It would be another chance to meet the pastor

855
00:35:00,660 --> 00:35:02,180
and maybe have an interview.

856
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,720
Are the bags over there?

857
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,180
But first, I had an appointment with Jael

858
00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:08,540
to help out with the chores around the homestead.

859
00:35:09,380 --> 00:35:10,700
Do you see much of Graham?

860
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,260
I spend time with him every Monday and Tuesday.

861
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:15,280
Because I haven't seen that much of him.

862
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,020
I think he's gotten kind of tired of you guys.

863
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:19,880
But...

864
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,320
How can he be tired of you?

865
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,280
Especially with you.

866
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:22,780
Why?

867
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:24,120
And you're impertinent questions.

868
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:27,820
He doesn't have much patience for people asking

869
00:35:27,820 --> 00:35:31,400
a bunch of questions that aren't relevant to the ministry.

870
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,880
You know, when we were at your house

871
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:36,000
and you said I was going to hell,

872
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:37,680
and you found that quite funny.

873
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:38,160
I did.

874
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:38,580
Why?

875
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,960
Thinking on those things brings me pleasure

876
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,940
to think that the Lord will vindicate his people

877
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:46,660
and he will carry out his wrath.

878
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:47,320
That made you happy?

879
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,400
Because he is perfect.

880
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:50,740
It doesn't make me happy to think of you burning in hell.

881
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:52,200
Okay.

882
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,040
Does that make me a better person than you?

883
00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:55,500
No.

884
00:35:56,720 --> 00:36:00,440
You know God because he sends the wicked to hell

885
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,020
and he saves the righteous.

886
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,000
That's comforting to think on.

887
00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:07,500
Why couldn't you feel a bit sad that I was going to hell?

888
00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:09,980
Because it's according to God's will.

889
00:36:10,540 --> 00:36:12,300
So you have to rejoice in all his judgments?

890
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:12,940
Exactly.

891
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:14,120
That is very...

892
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:14,980
That's a very good point.

893
00:36:15,220 --> 00:36:16,620
If you got run over by a car,

894
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:17,880
would your dad be pleased?

895
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:20,540
If I got run over by a car,

896
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:22,800
I would be in hell.

897
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:24,780
And my dad would probably be pleased.

898
00:36:25,140 --> 00:36:25,580
Really?

899
00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:26,300
Really.

900
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:27,840
I'm serious.

901
00:36:28,020 --> 00:36:29,220
And we have to move on, so come on.

902
00:36:29,220 --> 00:36:30,200
Jill, now it's crazy.

903
00:36:30,940 --> 00:36:32,600
And you're thinking it's crazy.

904
00:36:32,980 --> 00:36:33,620
It's good.

905
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:34,180
Okay, come on.

906
00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:34,680
Okay.

907
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:35,060
Okay.

908
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:35,180
Okay.

909
00:36:35,180 --> 00:36:48,080
A little later,

910
00:36:48,260 --> 00:36:49,920
I joined the rest of the church members

911
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:50,900
in the family chapel

912
00:36:50,900 --> 00:36:52,480
for my first experience

913
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:54,260
of one of Gramps' services.

914
00:36:54,260 --> 00:37:00,020
He will be waiting for me.

915
00:37:00,020 --> 00:37:08,520
Jesus, so kind and true.

916
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:15,500
After the day is through.

917
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:28,920
Is it true if I do something wrong,

918
00:37:29,020 --> 00:37:30,360
like, Gramps could go loco?

919
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:31,900
He won't go loco.

920
00:37:32,020 --> 00:37:33,560
He'll just tell you not to do it.

921
00:37:33,820 --> 00:37:35,120
Would it be embarrassing for him?

922
00:37:35,460 --> 00:37:36,840
No, it'd be embarrassing for you.

923
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:37,240
Why?

924
00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,180
Because there's just no experience quite like it.

925
00:37:40,180 --> 00:37:42,900
Get out of here.

926
00:37:42,900 --> 00:38:12,260
Same-sex marriage by any name.

927
00:38:12,260 --> 00:38:22,360
Civil union or otherwise is the ultimate smash-mouth-in-your-face insult to God Almighty.

928
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,840
And you think he's going to let England and America and the rest of this evil world get by with it?

929
00:38:27,220 --> 00:38:31,980
God Almighty has not joined fags in holy wedlock.

930
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,000
God no longer keeps America safe.

931
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:36,780
America's doomed.

932
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:41,640
Getting the pants beat off of us in Iraq.

933
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:43,140
Afghanistan.

934
00:38:44,460 --> 00:38:46,660
God is now America's terrorist.

935
00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:51,920
That's who Bush is fighting.

936
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,660
That's the terrorist that he best be afraid of.

937
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,260
You tweaked his nose, you jackass.

938
00:39:01,260 --> 00:39:02,980
You tweaked his nose.

939
00:39:02,980 --> 00:39:08,680
God put it in your wicked heart to start that war.

940
00:39:09,380 --> 00:39:13,060
That's the message we've got at the funerals of these dead soldiers.

941
00:39:13,060 --> 00:39:20,720
God duped you in the start of the war so he could punish you.

942
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:26,360
And any preacher preaching it any other way is a lying, hell-bound, false prophet.

943
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:40,560
It's almost 18 months now and the siege has got people eating their babies and their small children and each other.

944
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:49,860
God himself duped Bush into a no-win war.

945
00:39:49,860 --> 00:40:02,760
And he did that by the technique of putting a lying spirit in the mouth of all his trusted advisors to punish America.

946
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:18,820
You know, this shows that he's going to make at least two million books that's all capital abroad.

947
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:20,260
At least two million.

948
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,280
Maybe three or four million.

949
00:40:23,580 --> 00:40:26,320
Pastor, wouldn't it be five minutes for a couple of questions?

950
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:30,360
Well, uh, yeah, five minutes, shoot.

951
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:30,620
Okay.

952
00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:32,900
You know, I was struck by your preaching.

953
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:38,440
You referred mainly to the Old Testament and it was almost as though you felt we were living in a time of biblical prophecy.

954
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:39,900
Was that accurate?

955
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:41,400
No, it's not accurate.

956
00:40:41,620 --> 00:40:47,980
If you had just a little knowledge of the Bible, you would know that what you just said is stupidity in spades.

957
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,240
I don't know how to deal with a question like that.

958
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,960
You're just too dumb.

959
00:40:53,180 --> 00:40:53,400
Sorry.

960
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:58,260
And you've got the duty to know the Bible as well as I do.

961
00:40:58,420 --> 00:40:58,620
Why?

962
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,620
Because you're a human being.

963
00:41:01,060 --> 00:41:02,360
Because God Almighty made you.

964
00:41:02,660 --> 00:41:04,600
And God Almighty is going to send your ass to hell.

965
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:13,020
Is it accurate to say that you regard the Westboro Baptist Church as the only church that's giving biblical preaching according to the word of God?

966
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:14,060
Is this three minutes up?

967
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:14,880
No.

968
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:16,280
The answer to your question is yes.

969
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:17,520
No, it was five minutes.

970
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,840
Well, but I already talked to, didn't I?

971
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:21,420
So there's three left.

972
00:41:21,420 --> 00:41:28,640
Do you believe the Westboro Baptist Church and your preaching is the only preaching that is according to the word of God as far as you're concerned?

973
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,060
Asked and answered.

974
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:30,700
Next question.

975
00:41:31,060 --> 00:41:31,360
Okay.

976
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:38,780
As far as you're concerned, are the people of this church the only ones now living that will make it to the kingdom of heaven?

977
00:41:39,220 --> 00:41:40,000
Asked and answered.

978
00:41:40,140 --> 00:41:40,740
Next question.

979
00:41:40,740 --> 00:41:44,180
Is there something you'd like me to ask?

980
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:44,740
Nope.

981
00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:46,420
I didn't even want to talk to you.

982
00:41:46,780 --> 00:41:48,020
I didn't even want to let you in.

983
00:41:48,620 --> 00:41:57,740
You know, isn't it an act of presumption a little bit on your part that when you don't have all the information about all the other churches to assume that you have a privileged access to grace?

984
00:41:57,740 --> 00:41:59,760
Oh, I know all this and know about them.

985
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:00,600
How?

986
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,120
I'm not going to keep talking to you.

987
00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:09,440
Didn't Steve Drain tell you that you wasted an opportunity and they're probably going to fire you?

988
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,340
But you don't know anything about me, Pastor Fox.

989
00:42:11,340 --> 00:42:11,880
Yeah, I do.

990
00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:13,540
I know all this and know about you.

991
00:42:13,580 --> 00:42:14,960
You're just an evil...

992
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,900
I don't want to go there.

993
00:42:17,380 --> 00:42:19,440
Okay, now this is about 15 minutes.

994
00:42:19,460 --> 00:42:21,040
Okay, thank you very much for your time.

995
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,820
It's nice to see you and good luck to you.

996
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:25,500
Okay, guys.

997
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,200
Did you come to tell me some stuff, has he?

998
00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:32,080
God hates fags.

999
00:42:32,620 --> 00:42:34,400
God hates fag enablers.

1000
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,400
Therefore, God hates America and all of her military.

1001
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:45,520
Any abominable, disgraceful, filthy conduct that you think of to engage in, you do it and you're proud of it.

1002
00:42:45,660 --> 00:42:47,480
Quit worshipping the flag, dummy.

1003
00:42:47,660 --> 00:42:49,100
It can't help you.

1004
00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:52,220
You can't run on for a long time.

1005
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,120
Run on for a long time.

1006
00:42:55,580 --> 00:42:57,880
Run on for a long time.

1007
00:42:58,420 --> 00:43:00,980
Tell them that God's gonna cut you down.

1008
00:43:01,260 --> 00:43:03,960
Tell them that God's gonna cut you down.

1009
00:43:04,260 --> 00:43:07,100
Tell them that God's gonna cut you down.

1010
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,900
I'd sensed a deep wellspring of anger in Gramps,

1011
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:14,660
and I suspected that this was the basis for his church's ministry.

1012
00:43:14,660 --> 00:43:21,720
His skewed interpretation of the Bible had been handed on to his children and was now being broadcast to the world.

1013
00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,260
The Phelps had no interest in winning souls to Christ.

1014
00:43:25,260 --> 00:43:29,180
In their world, being hated was proof that they were doing the right thing.

1015
00:43:29,180 --> 00:43:46,300
As part of their ever expanding effort to reach into every corner of America, the church had decided to picket a soldier's funeral several hundred miles away, on the outskirts of Chicago in Skokie, Illinois.

1016
00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:52,540
For one last time, I joined them.

1017
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,220
So, um, so you're flying all the way to Illinois?

1018
00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:57,300
Yes.

1019
00:43:57,580 --> 00:44:02,900
Or, you know, however many there are of you, just to picket this dead soldier's funeral?

1020
00:44:03,060 --> 00:44:03,400
That's right.

1021
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:04,260
For 45 minutes?

1022
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:04,700
Yep.

1023
00:44:05,460 --> 00:44:06,600
Is it really worth it?

1024
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:07,280
Yeah.

1025
00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:09,420
Look, hon, they get the message.

1026
00:44:09,540 --> 00:44:12,400
You see what it's created all around this nation?

1027
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,740
Good morning.

1028
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:17,320
I'm going to sit in the second round.

1029
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:18,980
Somebody else is already there.

1030
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,060
Where am I supposed to sit?

1031
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:22,840
Hater.

1032
00:44:23,660 --> 00:44:28,480
So how much would you say the church spends in an average year on flights?

1033
00:44:28,940 --> 00:44:29,500
A lot.

1034
00:44:29,780 --> 00:44:30,300
How much?

1035
00:44:30,820 --> 00:44:33,440
In the 200,000 range.

1036
00:44:33,740 --> 00:44:34,040
Really?

1037
00:44:34,620 --> 00:44:35,340
$200,000.

1038
00:44:35,660 --> 00:44:37,780
So that's more than maybe 100,000 pounds?

1039
00:44:38,260 --> 00:44:38,980
Yeah, how much is...

1040
00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:40,200
Yeah, I don't know what the ratio is.

1041
00:44:40,220 --> 00:44:40,680
Just to go and spread hate?

1042
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,320
No, to go and preach the gospel.

1043
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:44,660
Hate, God's hate.

1044
00:44:44,860 --> 00:44:45,860
I didn't say your hate.

1045
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:47,660
That's very scriptural, what I said.

1046
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:48,620
True or false?

1047
00:44:48,620 --> 00:44:49,660
Well, actually, that's true.

1048
00:44:51,820 --> 00:44:55,020
His unit was supposed to end its service in Iraq in August,

1049
00:44:55,240 --> 00:44:57,960
but one day before Foytek was scheduled to leave,

1050
00:44:58,260 --> 00:45:00,220
he got news that it would be sent to Baghdad.

1051
00:45:00,980 --> 00:45:03,480
He told his family he would be home in November instead,

1052
00:45:03,980 --> 00:45:06,560
and last week his mother mailed him his cell phone

1053
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,320
so he would be able to call.

1054
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,660
Foytek, 26, died two days before Halloween,

1055
00:45:13,220 --> 00:45:17,580
shot in the neck by insurgents during a raid on a house near Baghdad.

1056
00:45:18,540 --> 00:45:21,420
In addition to his mother, Foytek is survived by his father,

1057
00:45:22,220 --> 00:45:25,100
Rick Goodsky, a brother, Christopher, and grandparents.

1058
00:45:25,540 --> 00:45:27,020
Doesn't that make you sad, though?

1059
00:45:27,020 --> 00:45:31,600
It's very sad that these people won't get the message.

1060
00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:36,420
All they have to do is obey their God, and they'll stop the pain.

1061
00:45:36,660 --> 00:45:37,680
But they're not going to.

1062
00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:38,980
That's so abstract, though, because...

1063
00:45:38,980 --> 00:45:39,720
It's not abstract.

1064
00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:44,960
The truth is we don't really know anything more than this article tells us about Craig Foytek.

1065
00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:46,540
Now, you take it as a thematic.

1066
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:47,220
No, we know two things.

1067
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:51,840
Because he's been killed, therefore he was doing something sinful.

1068
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:56,020
I know that he was fighting for a nation who has made God their enemy.

1069
00:45:56,180 --> 00:45:59,680
But you don't think there's any good people out there in the military?

1070
00:45:59,980 --> 00:46:01,680
This is all very plain and very simple,

1071
00:46:01,860 --> 00:46:04,200
and you are not going to make me feel bad about this,

1072
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:05,860
because I did not do that.

1073
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:07,920
I'm doing this, though, to help them.

1074
00:46:08,180 --> 00:46:10,620
Is there any danger of you feeling bad about it?

1075
00:46:11,860 --> 00:46:13,120
Uh, is there any danger?

1076
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:15,880
Yeah, you say that almost as though I might have got through to you a little bit.

1077
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,280
No, you didn't get through to me, but you keep grinding away.

1078
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,140
You view things through what you see.

1079
00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:25,260
And those things, the scripture says, are temporal.

1080
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:26,760
They are going to fade away.

1081
00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:29,860
God is infinitely wise and powerful and omniscient.

1082
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:30,960
Which he is.

1083
00:46:30,980 --> 00:46:35,060
He could bring a soldier up to heaven if he felt like it.

1084
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:35,880
Listen to you.

1085
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,260
This nation thinks that they are all powerful, almighty,

1086
00:46:39,660 --> 00:46:43,020
and those young men and women fighting for this country...

1087
00:46:43,020 --> 00:46:44,560
You think that about your church, too, don't you?

1088
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:45,480
You're right.

1089
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,620
We do have power, and the power comes from our God.

1090
00:46:48,620 --> 00:46:51,500
We have all the power, and you stay tuned,

1091
00:46:51,620 --> 00:46:53,940
because shortly you're going to see him coming through the clouds

1092
00:46:53,940 --> 00:46:55,640
and executing judgment on these people.

1093
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:01,140
But isn't it possible that his funeral is for a good man

1094
00:47:01,140 --> 00:47:02,800
and a righteous and a nice person

1095
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,940
who doesn't deserve to have his funeral picketed?

1096
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:08,460
Not a chance.

1097
00:47:09,060 --> 00:47:09,880
Poopy pants.

1098
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:10,880
Poopy pants.

1099
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:12,000
All right.

1100
00:47:12,820 --> 00:47:13,980
I'll speak with him.

1101
00:47:18,140 --> 00:47:26,120
At the funeral, I decided to break away from the picket

1102
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,820
and go inside the memorial home to see the mourners firsthand.

1103
00:47:29,820 --> 00:47:33,380
he was doing what he wanted to do

1104
00:47:33,380 --> 00:47:39,600
and i have to honor that as much as i'm gonna miss him and i don't think it's fair

1105
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:45,840
but he was doing what he believed and what he wanted craig wanted to go

1106
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:52,400
in the army when he first got out of high school so he did what he wanted to do he did

1107
00:47:52,400 --> 00:48:02,780
and we just have to carry out his memory and his honor through other soldiers and help other families

1108
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:43,540
seeing the mourners up close brought home the reality of the grief

1109
00:48:43,540 --> 00:48:46,980
but i realized i'd got as far as i could with shirley

1110
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,240
put so into the flesh louis it's taking you to hell

1111
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:54,120
try as i might nothing i said made any impact on her beliefs

1112
00:48:54,120 --> 00:49:09,620
back in topeka and while we'd been away a local episcopalian church and regular target of pickets

1113
00:49:09,620 --> 00:49:16,480
had caught fire for the phelps it was another sign of god's judgment and a reason to rejoice

1114
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,360
you want to get a sign louis

1115
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,360
uh for me to hold i don't think i can do that

1116
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,240
yeah i was nearing the end of my time in the group

1117
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:30,120
though i'd made no headway with shirley i wondered if i'd fare better

1118
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:34,000
with my fellow documentary maker steve drain but listen

1119
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,880
can i tell you you know now that i've come to the end of close to the end of my time here are you

1120
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,760
curious to hear my thoughts a little bit i'd love to hear your thoughts

1121
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:41,760
go ahead

1122
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,760
you know i spent a little bit of time with the pastor and i think maybe

1123
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,760
i think he's got a lot of anger i sense that there's a lot of anger in there

1124
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,760
maybe he's a rageaholic i don't know

1125
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:55,760
but that he um that perhaps this ministry is human focused rather than god focused

1126
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,640
because i do know the bible's pretty long book i haven't read all of it but if you pick and choose

1127
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:03,980
efficiently enough you can find virtually justification for almost any kind of behavior

1128
00:50:03,980 --> 00:50:05,640
when i say god hates fags

1129
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:11,720
okay that's not the whole message that we have but that's the front burner issue that's the elephant in

1130
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:16,160
the room that nobody else is willing to talk about but i'll sit down and have that's not the

1131
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,940
only piece of evidence that i would adduce in favor of my argument though i'd also say that the

1132
00:50:19,940 --> 00:50:25,440
whole idea that we the westborough baptist church the 75 or 70 of us that are here are the only ones

1133
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:29,440
who are going to heaven everyone else is hellbound that there were somebody else out there who is

1134
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:35,680
preaching the unvarnished word of god from cover to cover we would have heard about them when you

1135
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:40,960
read the new testament you get the sense from jesus christ that he was kind of a a gentle spirit

1136
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:45,840
if he did come back he'd be holding the sign that he came back in the spirit of the lamb rather than

1137
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,120
the line that they talk about i'm trying to tell you right now that he would be picketed by the

1138
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:54,080
westborough baptist church i'm trying to tell you right now i'm trying to well you are seriously

1139
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:59,920
deluded i'm preaching what the bible says you're preaching what your dark heart says i'm willing

1140
00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:05,120
to talk with you but you're just being silly and specious being silly of course you are of course you

1141
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:10,080
are you want to ride back i'm not being silly i don't think you have the truth exactly i think you're

1142
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:16,960
running away from the truth what you're doing is you're just trying to turn yourself into god

1143
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:22,800
by saying things ought to be this way things about ought to be thus and such you are the one who has the god

1144
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,280
complex louis not me but i don't claim absolute truth which is something you do you i don't claim

1145
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:31,920
it of myself the idea that you you can sort of pick and choose among oh well these people are elect

1146
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,320
so we're nice to them but we're not really going to be nice to those other ones have you ever seen me

1147
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,520
be mean to a person i'm not talking about you specifically i'm talking about the church i'm

1148
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,920
i am the church i'm one of the members did you rejoice yesterday when that church burned down the

1149
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:49,920
epistopalian church you're supposed to rejoice over all of god's judgments and do you rejoice when soldiers

1150
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:55,040
uh die in iraq absolutely i do you rejoice when people are knocked over by cars and they get

1151
00:51:55,040 --> 00:52:00,400
cancer absolutely i love it and i can tell you right now because it's the righteous judgment of god

1152
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:00,960
almighty

1153
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,240
my time among the hate mongers of the westboro baptist church was done

1154
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,720
i'd expected to meet a group that causes pain to people in the outside world

1155
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:22,800
but i'd been surprised to find that the members of the church are also paying a price themselves

1156
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:27,760
shut off from the world they preach a hatred that is reflected back at them

1157
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:33,760
confirming them in their beliefs and ultimately denying the right to a normal life to their

1158
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:41,920
youngest members are we gonna go in my car yeah okay mom they're here and they want to go to

1159
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:47,920
somewhere to get a drink like a coffee drink yeah maybe like no she said no okay

1160
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,800
we have coffee in our house okay maybe we should have a coffee here would that be all right

1161
00:52:55,360 --> 00:53:00,000
how come we couldn't go out and get coffee i don't know she said no how's it going good

1162
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:09,120
most 21 year olds if they wanted to go out for coffee they would be able to do that without their

1163
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:19,840
parents permission that's true but i'm special i listen to what my parents say i respect my parents

1164
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:28,080
so do you think it's possible that you are kind of grappling with more um than than the other women

1165
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:33,200
here no what are you talking about i don't know i just i sense there's more there's a little bit more

1166
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:37,760
um in attention in you i don't it's not attention yeah a little bit oh no

1167
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:45,040
you know people who watch this will be thinking you know there's a um a very nice charming attractive

1168
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:52,400
young woman and um it would be nice to see her uh maybe kind of opening her mind a little bit and

1169
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:58,400
uh moving out into the world and uh maybe thinking of in a few years of settling down and starting a

1170
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:05,360
family why does everybody have to get married well no one has to but but why shouldn't everybody have

1171
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:12,400
the choice i have the choice well you kind of do and you don't it seems it's so inculcated in you

1172
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:19,200
that the outside world is is is this devilish satanic place that uh as you said yourself that there's

1173
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:29,360
there's really no one for you yeah who would even um want to marry someone that serves god i don't sort

1174
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:36,960
of blame you for for being born into a situation that was outside your control and and i can also see

1175
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,360
that uh you know you're coming to a time in your life where you might start to question some of those

1176
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:48,560
things that time has come and gone i've i've already reached the age where i've made the decision

1177
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:55,840
what i want to do in this life do you have a rebellious few years um louie if i ever was

1178
00:54:55,840 --> 00:55:03,360
rebellious do you think i would tell you about it i'm ashamed of any nonsense that i've ever done

1179
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:11,200
we started picketing when we when i was a first grade six years old so people have been

1180
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:18,800
treating me the way that you see us see us being treated now since i was that young so i mean people

1181
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:27,680
didn't treat me right what did they do well nobody wanted to talk to me really at school and um they

1182
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:34,400
were shamed to be around me you know that sense of being ostracized if you preach that the world is

1183
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:41,040
hateful and full of condemned sinners then the world will start to take that

1184
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:51,760
shape well it's um very simple we read the scriptures and we tell people what the standard is

1185
00:55:53,120 --> 00:56:02,880
we don't do violence to people we um warn them that their sins are taking them to hell we do a courteous

1186
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:14,000
loving thing to them that's courteous and loving and they hate us and they beat on us

1187
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:20,320
and they don't want anything to do with us they're just downright mean to us sometimes you know

1188
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:28,000
what did we do to them nothing but a courtesy so that's quite a weird kind of courtesy

1189
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:38,000
how is it weird going to funerals and waving those placards we preach to the living we we warn them

1190
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:49,200
that's what we're doing are you afraid of going to hell um i fear the wrath of god i fear um going to hell

1191
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:57,680
but i i certainly hope i won't go there i think you laughed at the idea of me in hell because maybe

1192
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:04,320
it made you feel like you weren't going to hell i laughed at the thought of you going to hell because

1193
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:11,680
i know you louie and you're a scoffer and a mocker and it it gives me pleasure to know that the lord's

1194
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:17,920
the lord will vindicate his people and he will glorify his own name because that's all this is about

1195
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:26,960
is glorifying god so that's why i smile okay come on i haven't scoffed at you

1196
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,920
okay let's get out to the picket

1197
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:49,120
rules that you should obey did you do it for me yeah i'm gonna let you have it so you can carry it

1198
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:56,720
around so you can know all the rules of obeying god don't kill people don't marry two people don't

1199
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:06,160
lie um almost i think everyone lies some in their life maybe when they're a kid don't act like a snake

1200
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:13,360
what's practically louie does actually all of these louie does what does that mean act like a snake

1201
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:22,880
can't remember hey you've been saying don't no no uh don't say that you've been saying i act like

1202
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:30,160
a snake no you clarified for him yeah don't act like a snake and then says don't be sneaky yeah see

1203
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:35,600
he was clarifying for you already yeah

1204
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:36,320
you

1205
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:40,320
you

1206
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,320
you

1207
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:44,320
you

1208
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,320
you