1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:27,080
Okay, let's say this, maybe some of the things that thrill you won't thrill me, the things that thrill your cameraman won't thrill you or thrill me, see what I'm saying, just like the things that thrill me obviously won't thrill you guys.

2
00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:31,360
But maybe the things that thrill me aren't things that are going to get me 500 years in prison.

3
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,080
That's the thing right there.

4
00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:34,620
Do I go through?

5
00:00:35,060 --> 00:00:35,500
Absolutely.

6
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:41,780
Thank you.

7
00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:50,760
Just outside San Francisco stands one of America's oldest and most notorious prisons, San Quentin.

8
00:00:51,380 --> 00:01:00,780
It's famous for its death row, but its main purpose is to house a transient population of nearly 3,000 murderers, sexual predators and small-time criminals.

9
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:09,500
Here they inhabit a strange world within a world, with its own rules and its own brutal code of honour.

10
00:01:10,660 --> 00:01:13,660
And for two weeks, I've been allowed inside.

11
00:01:13,660 --> 00:01:23,780
Now, you want me to show you how to put the vest on and the reason why we have the vest?

12
00:01:23,820 --> 00:01:24,180
Yes, please.

13
00:01:24,220 --> 00:01:24,960
How do you put this on?

14
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:31,640
Well, the correct way is you want to do it like this and fasten the Velcro and slip it over your head.

15
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:39,380
Make sure he goes up high enough to cover the heart area and your major organs right there, the kidney and liver and stuff like that.

16
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,240
And what is the necessity of wearing one of these?

17
00:01:42,380 --> 00:01:49,240
This right here is because these guys have a tendency to either spear you or dart you, and this will protect your major organs right here.

18
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:55,240
I was with Officer Jamie Alejos in Carson's section, also known as The Hole.

19
00:01:56,620 --> 00:02:06,120
The inmates here are segregated from the rest of the prison and are locked down for 23 hours a day, many of them because they attacked other inmates or guards.

20
00:02:08,060 --> 00:02:09,140
What's he doing with that?

21
00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:11,520
He's fishing. Passing notes back and forth.

22
00:02:12,340 --> 00:02:13,380
Look how far he goes.

23
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,240
No, that's nothing. I've seen guys go like eight, nine cells.

24
00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:18,000
And is that allowed?

25
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:18,740
No.

26
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,100
How come he's doing it in front of you, then?

27
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:22,320
Because you guys are right here.

28
00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:27,580
See, they also...

29
00:02:27,580 --> 00:02:31,580
They got little eyes. They stick out, a little piece of mirror.

30
00:02:33,180 --> 00:02:34,560
Is that like a periscope?

31
00:02:34,900 --> 00:02:37,920
Yeah. I can sit down and cheer when the cops are coming.

32
00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:39,680
What are you in for?

33
00:02:41,100 --> 00:02:42,600
A Shaw with daily weapons.

34
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:43,280
Really?

35
00:02:43,540 --> 00:02:43,820
Yeah.

36
00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:47,540
How long?

37
00:02:47,540 --> 00:02:48,880
15 years.

38
00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:49,260
15 years.

39
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,240
And why are you segregated?

40
00:02:52,620 --> 00:02:53,020
Why?

41
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:59,000
I'm a danger and threat to the safety and security of the institution.

42
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:12,020
They're going to make all kinds of noise.

43
00:03:12,340 --> 00:03:13,580
That's the milk carton right there.

44
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,560
Do you actually quite like dealing with them?

45
00:03:15,740 --> 00:03:16,280
Yes, I do.

46
00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:16,580
Why?

47
00:03:16,580 --> 00:03:21,760
Because most of the stuff that they say is amusing.

48
00:03:22,540 --> 00:03:23,560
It makes you laugh.

49
00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:26,800
What are the labels hanging down?

50
00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:29,020
That's the fish lines that got stuck up there.

51
00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:30,180
And they just stay up there?

52
00:03:30,180 --> 00:03:30,460
Yeah.

53
00:03:30,460 --> 00:03:30,520
Yeah.

54
00:03:32,060 --> 00:03:37,260
Alejos had mentioned an inmate known as Playboy Nolan, who is in Carson for spraying unpleasant

55
00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:41,040
substances at the guards, a practice they call gassing.

56
00:03:41,700 --> 00:03:43,400
He gassed someone the other day.

57
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:44,900
Yeah, Nolan did.

58
00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,020
I gassed someone.

59
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:47,160
That's weak.

60
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:47,940
Oh, yeah.

61
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,200
Remember when the guy came down and spit at you?

62
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:49,740
Oh, yeah.

63
00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:50,620
Oh, yeah.

64
00:03:50,620 --> 00:03:58,520
Come on, this way.

65
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:04,260
So what was your original commitment?

66
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,060
Well, my rear car jacking.

67
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:07,040
Car jacking?

68
00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:07,880
Yeah, car jacking.

69
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,920
And you got how long for that?

70
00:04:13,220 --> 00:04:14,540
I got three years for that.

71
00:04:14,700 --> 00:04:15,340
You used a weapon?

72
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:16,580
Yeah, I used a weapon.

73
00:04:16,660 --> 00:04:17,720
Yeah, they said I had a weapon.

74
00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:18,540
Yeah.

75
00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:19,920
During the commitment of the crime.

76
00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:24,060
And they call you Playboy Nolan, is that right?

77
00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,280
Yeah, they know me as Playboy.

78
00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:26,760
And that's what they told you, huh?

79
00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:27,160
Yeah.

80
00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:28,280
Yeah, that's what they know me by.

81
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:29,260
How come?

82
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,140
It's just a name that's been going around for years.

83
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,980
So you assaulted CEOs, that's correctional officers, right?

84
00:04:36,180 --> 00:04:36,920
With what?

85
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,180
With any kind of liquid substance you could put together.

86
00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:39,960
Like urine?

87
00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:42,280
Yeah, any kind of liquid substance.

88
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:42,800
Urine?

89
00:04:43,140 --> 00:04:44,000
Any kind of liquid substance.

90
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:44,800
It's just the easiest.

91
00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:46,800
Because sometimes...

92
00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:47,360
Peasies?

93
00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:48,780
Peasies?

94
00:04:49,340 --> 00:04:49,680
Poo-poo.

95
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,100
Oh, please, no, no, no.

96
00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:52,460
I ain't going that far.

97
00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,100
No, but sometimes...

98
00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:54,580
Urine?

99
00:04:54,780 --> 00:04:55,080
Yeah.

100
00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:56,400
But sometimes...

101
00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:56,780
Urine?

102
00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,280
Yeah, but it's not nobody else's.

103
00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:04,200
Yeah, but sometimes I've been in predicaments where I had nothing in myself.

104
00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:09,580
And the only way to get my point across was come up with some kind of combination, you know?

105
00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:11,420
Did you actually guess an officer?

106
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:12,580
Yeah, I guessed.

107
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:13,220
Which one?

108
00:05:13,820 --> 00:05:14,660
Which one?

109
00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,320
A lot of them.

110
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:17,620
Probably about five or six, huh?

111
00:05:17,620 --> 00:05:19,400
About five or six officers, I guessed.

112
00:05:19,540 --> 00:05:20,300
Would you ever guess me?

113
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,340
No, I never guessed him.

114
00:05:21,420 --> 00:05:22,020
Would you ever, though?

115
00:05:22,340 --> 00:05:23,080
Would I have a guess?

116
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,260
Why wouldn't you guess the layhose?

117
00:05:24,780 --> 00:05:27,440
I'd known him for a long time, so...

118
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,300
You seem almost a little proud that he wouldn't do that to you.

119
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,400
No, I've known Playboy since...

120
00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:35,020
About 17?

121
00:05:35,020 --> 00:05:36,720
No, as soon as he's 17 years old.

122
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:38,840
I've seen him.

123
00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:40,160
It was freaking worse.

124
00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:41,460
I mean, unbelievable.

125
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:42,740
Worse, worse, huh?

126
00:05:42,740 --> 00:05:44,540
You just want to go over there and just freaking just hit him.

127
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:45,900
I'm going to shut up, yeah.

128
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:47,880
I mean, just for no reason.

129
00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:49,780
And now you have a...

130
00:05:49,780 --> 00:05:51,400
And now I sense you have a pretty good replay.

131
00:05:51,420 --> 00:05:52,140
I know, we always had.

132
00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:52,920
Really?

133
00:05:53,060 --> 00:05:53,260
Yeah.

134
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,880
Yeah, this is calm for me right here.

135
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:57,280
It's night and day.

136
00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,640
This guy was straight up freaking idiot.

137
00:06:00,220 --> 00:06:01,860
He was one of the worst ones.

138
00:06:01,860 --> 00:06:04,200
Why don't you just...

139
00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,820
So do you feel bad about all the things you did?

140
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,200
Do I feel...

141
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:11,660
Well, in a sense, I could have went about it a better way, right?

142
00:06:12,020 --> 00:06:16,580
But at the time, that was my only way to get my point across.

143
00:06:17,180 --> 00:06:18,080
Can we see inside yourself?

144
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:18,320
Yeah.

145
00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,120
So you haven't got much stuff in here.

146
00:06:22,820 --> 00:06:24,360
I keep it simple, man.

147
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:25,580
It's nothing in there.

148
00:06:26,020 --> 00:06:27,860
It looks like nothing's in there because it's simple.

149
00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:29,380
You know, keep the basics.

150
00:06:29,660 --> 00:06:31,100
Can I touch your stuff?

151
00:06:31,140 --> 00:06:31,820
Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

152
00:06:31,980 --> 00:06:33,280
You've got some coffee here.

153
00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:34,480
Yeah, there's coffee right there.

154
00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:37,800
And then you've got a lot of ramen noodles over here.

155
00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:38,220
Yeah.

156
00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,460
And then why so many noodles?

157
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,920
You've got like about 20 packs of noodles back there.

158
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:48,360
20 packs because the food here is not...

159
00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,420
Over the years, it's really changed a lot.

160
00:06:51,220 --> 00:06:52,260
I used to feed you a lot more.

161
00:06:52,340 --> 00:06:53,280
You used to have a lot more flavor.

162
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:54,180
The food's not so good.

163
00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:55,560
Thank you very much.

164
00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:56,680
Oh, I can't shake your hand.

165
00:06:57,320 --> 00:06:57,980
Thanks, I can't.

166
00:06:58,200 --> 00:06:59,280
There you go.

167
00:06:59,280 --> 00:06:59,720
Ha ha.

168
00:06:59,900 --> 00:07:00,360
Thank you.

169
00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:01,040
Come here.

170
00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:23,960
Out in the general population of the prison,

171
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,400
inmates get yard time for just a couple of hours twice a week.

172
00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:32,400
Other than showers and mealtimes, these are their only moments outside their cells,

173
00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,400
a chance to socialise and make allies.

174
00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,400
Escorted for my own safety by Lieutenant Eric Messick,

175
00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:48,400
I was in West Block Yard, where most of the inmates are doing time for parole violations.

176
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,400
Tell me what you're doing over here, you're just relaxing?

177
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:52,400
We're the white guys.

178
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:53,400
Are you the white gang?

179
00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:54,400
Yeah.

180
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:59,400
Are you, would you be part of a, uh, a skinhead gang?

181
00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:00,400
What is it?

182
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:01,400
Woods.

183
00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:02,400
I can't read it.

184
00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:03,400
What does it mean?

185
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:04,400
What does it say?

186
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:05,400
Barbarian Brotherhood.

187
00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:06,400
Barbarian Brotherhood?

188
00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,400
Do all the different races have different areas?

189
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,400
Yeah, that's like the black area over there, the Norteño area over there,

190
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,400
the white area over here, the Indians over there.

191
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:16,400
We keep it segregated.

192
00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:17,400
How come?

193
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:18,400
Because we don't want to program with them.

194
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:19,400
Keep a clear line.

195
00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:20,400
Pretty much.

196
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:21,400
Yeah, white power to get them.

197
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:22,400
I ain't programming with them.

198
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,400
Oh!

199
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:24,400
Oh!

200
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:35,400
I mean, on the out, in the outside world, people tend to rub along, you know, different races,

201
00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:38,400
get along more or less, and so how come inside doesn't work like that?

202
00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:43,400
It's for no confusion, so we don't get confused between races and stuff.

203
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:44,400
We just stay away from them.

204
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:45,400
They stay away from us.

205
00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,400
They don't mean we're racist, we just don't want to live with them, you know?

206
00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:48,400
I don't want to live with them.

207
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,400
Is there someone here who's in charge?

208
00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:51,400
No one's going to say that.

209
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,400
No one would say that?

210
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:54,400
Why wouldn't anyone say that?

211
00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:57,400
Because then they were high-profile us and then put us in the hole.

212
00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,400
After they think someone's in charge, they're going to, they're going to slam me down

213
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,400
and give you a head and turn my shoes on.

214
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,400
So someone here might be in charge, but you wouldn't say?

215
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:06,400
No.

216
00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:07,400
Didn't say stuff like that.

217
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,400
Are most of you here on violations?

218
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,400
Almost at least 50% of us here because of meth.

219
00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:13,400
At least the white guys.

220
00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:14,400
Yeah.

221
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,400
Robbing pharmacy?

222
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:16,400
Robbing pharmacy.

223
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,400
Robbery.

224
00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:18,400
Really?

225
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:19,400
Yeah.

226
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:20,400
How many?

227
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:21,400
31.

228
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:22,400
31 what?

229
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,400
Counts.

230
00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:24,400
Really?

231
00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:25,400
Yeah.

232
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:26,400
How long did they give you?

233
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:27,400
I'm on a 90-day observation.

234
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:28,400
I'm still not sentenced yet.

235
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,400
Yeah.

236
00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,400
So how long did they, but with 31 counts, how long might, how long could they give you?

237
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:33,400
38 years.

238
00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:34,400
38 years?

239
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,400
Yeah.

240
00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:36,400
You look quite young.

241
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:37,400
19.

242
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,400
19.

243
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,400
Yeah.

244
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,400
They're all pretty young.

245
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,400
How did you hook up with these guys?

246
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:44,400
Uh, yeah.

247
00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:45,400
We take care of our own.

248
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:46,400
Did you spot him?

249
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,400
Because he looks kind of new, you know.

250
00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,400
Did you spot him and think, you know, we'll look out for him?

251
00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,400
Yeah.

252
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:53,400
Yeah.

253
00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:54,400
We work in the kitchen together.

254
00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:55,400
We try to take care of everybody.

255
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:56,400
Yeah.

256
00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:57,400
We work in the kitchen together too.

257
00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,400
Yeah.

258
00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,400
Thanks for Rum.

259
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,400
How will you find monuments?

260
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:01,400
Yes.

261
00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:06,400
Oh wow.

262
00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:10,400
What's more like?

263
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:17,400
Thank you so much.

264
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:23,400
For new arrivals at the prison, their first port of call is Receiving and Release.

265
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:33,240
San Quentin is a clearinghouse for prisoners from all over Northern California, who either

266
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:38,160
serve short stretches here or are assessed and sent on to other prisons.

267
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,280
Most have been in and out of institutions their whole lives, bouncing back on parole

268
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:50,520
violations or serving longer stretches on serious crimes.

269
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,580
Would it be okay to ask why you're in here?

270
00:10:53,580 --> 00:10:54,580
Drugs.

271
00:10:54,580 --> 00:10:55,580
What kind of drugs?

272
00:10:55,580 --> 00:10:56,580
Ethphetamine.

273
00:10:56,580 --> 00:10:59,580
What was your original conviction for?

274
00:10:59,580 --> 00:11:04,060
Assault on an undercover officer.

275
00:11:04,060 --> 00:11:07,060
What is something that you do on the side?

276
00:11:07,060 --> 00:11:10,960
I mean that was just something that I did on the side stealing cars, you know, it's kind

277
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:16,200
of like a hobby, you know, not really something that I should be doing but it's kind of like

278
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,460
a hobby.

279
00:11:17,460 --> 00:11:24,460
What is it that makes you kind of keep coming back?

280
00:11:24,460 --> 00:11:28,960
It's too easy to do the time.

281
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:34,580
There's nothing there to give you any kind of incentive to do the right thing.

282
00:11:34,580 --> 00:11:37,520
You mean it's too easy to do the time, in what way?

283
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:44,520
I don't know, to me it's worth taking the risks, to live the way I want to live.

284
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:53,960
I was on my way to meet a new arrival in Badger section.

285
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,600
This is where inmates are sent if they're considered especially dangerous on account

286
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,640
of the seriousness of their crimes.

287
00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,600
The senior officer in Badger was John Gladson.

288
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:04,600
How do you do?

289
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:05,600
Hey, how you doing?

290
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:06,600
Nice to meet you.

291
00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:07,600
Good.

292
00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,100
And who's down here on this floor?

293
00:12:09,100 --> 00:12:10,100
Yeah.

294
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:11,100
This is the level fours.

295
00:12:11,100 --> 00:12:13,100
These are the real bad guys.

296
00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:17,100
When you say level fours, you're talking about these are the guys who are the most dangerous.

297
00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:21,100
They're level fours because they have done something very serious or attacked another

298
00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:22,100
inmate or maybe a guard.

299
00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:29,100
Yeah, that's how they get to level four murder, rape, robbery, extorting stuff from other

300
00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:30,100
inmates.

301
00:12:30,100 --> 00:12:32,100
That's how they get up to be level four.

302
00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:34,100
Are these guys level four up and down here now?

303
00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:41,100
Yeah, everybody out that you see is level four and considered extremely dangerous.

304
00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:46,100
How are you doing?

305
00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:47,100
You Anthony?

306
00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:48,100
Yeah.

307
00:12:48,100 --> 00:12:49,100
How do you do?

308
00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:51,100
We're from the BBC.

309
00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:56,100
We were just going to chat to you because we heard that you just got here on Friday

310
00:12:56,100 --> 00:12:57,100
maybe?

311
00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:58,100
Yeah.

312
00:12:58,100 --> 00:12:59,100
And this is your first time ever in prison.

313
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:00,100
Is that right?

314
00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:01,100
Yeah.

315
00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,100
And we wanted to see how you were getting on, basically.

316
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:04,100
Oh, it's cool.

317
00:13:04,100 --> 00:13:06,100
It's like a playground here, man.

318
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:07,100
It ain't nothing, man.

319
00:13:07,100 --> 00:13:09,100
Ain't nothing scary about this.

320
00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:12,100
And how did you wind up here?

321
00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:16,100
Uh, you know, I went to the trail and got life.

322
00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:17,100
What did you get it for?

323
00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:18,100
What I get it for?

324
00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:19,100
Yeah.

325
00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:20,100
Oh, murder.

326
00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:21,100
How did you come about?

327
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:23,100
Uh, they said I killed my best friend, man.

328
00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:26,100
So, that's how I came about.

329
00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:27,100
But you really...

330
00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:30,100
Maybe it's a silly question, but did you do it?

331
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:31,100
Oh, no, man.

332
00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:32,100
What happened then?

333
00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:35,100
You know, somebody set him up and just put my name in it.

334
00:13:35,100 --> 00:13:36,100
Really?

335
00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:38,100
And your sentence is for how long?

336
00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:39,100
Oh, 50 years of life.

337
00:13:39,100 --> 00:13:40,100
50 years of life.

338
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:41,100
15 to life?

339
00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:42,100
50 to life?

340
00:13:42,100 --> 00:13:43,100
50 to life.

341
00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:44,100
50 to life.

342
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:45,100
50?

343
00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:46,100
50?

344
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:47,100
5-0?

345
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:48,100
Yeah.

346
00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:49,100
Wow.

347
00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:50,100
That's a long time.

348
00:13:50,100 --> 00:13:51,100
Yeah, yeah.

349
00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:52,100
Gotta do it.

350
00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:54,100
And then, officer, if you...

351
00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:55,100
If you...

352
00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:56,100
I mean...

353
00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:57,100
What's that?

354
00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:58,100
What's that?

355
00:13:58,100 --> 00:13:59,100
This gentleman just told me that...

356
00:13:59,100 --> 00:14:03,100
This gentleman just told me he has 50 to life, 5-0 to life.

357
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:05,100
I mean, would you have any advice for him?

358
00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:06,100
Yes.

359
00:14:06,100 --> 00:14:11,100
Don't be tipping up gang-banging, but try to do your own time.

360
00:14:11,100 --> 00:14:13,100
Don't do somebody else's time.

361
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:14,100
And you know what?

362
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,100
50 to life can be dropped.

363
00:14:16,100 --> 00:14:17,100
You know?

364
00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,100
That's...

365
00:14:18,100 --> 00:14:19,100
That's a little steep.

366
00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:22,100
What does that mean when you say, do your own time, don't do somebody else's?

367
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:23,100
Okay.

368
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:26,100
Well, what happens is the gang-bangers try to get the fellas to...

369
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:29,100
The young guys to do their bidding for them.

370
00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:33,100
Stab people or, you know, extort money from people and things like that.

371
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:38,100
So, that way it keeps a guy like him, a youngster, in trouble all the time.

372
00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:44,100
So, you know, if he ever does go before a parole board, they would look at it and say,

373
00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:45,100
hey, you know what?

374
00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:47,100
You was in trouble all the time.

375
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:50,100
You know, given this is your first time in prison, you're facing a long stretch,

376
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:54,100
you don't seem too... you don't seem too intimidated by the whole experience.

377
00:14:54,100 --> 00:14:56,100
No, it ain't intimidating.

378
00:14:56,100 --> 00:14:57,100
No.

379
00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:59,100
You said it's like a playground.

380
00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:00,100
Yeah, it is.

381
00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:01,100
It's like a little playground right here, man.

382
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:02,100
It ain't intimidating.

383
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:03,100
You know what I'm saying?

384
00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:04,100
You can't let nobody punk you, man.

385
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:05,100
You know what I'm saying?

386
00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:06,100
I ain't the one.

387
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:07,100
I ain't the one.

388
00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:09,100
I wasn't the one on the streets and I ain't gonna be the one here.

389
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:10,100
Meaning?

390
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,100
Meaning that you can't make me do what I want to do.

391
00:15:12,100 --> 00:15:13,100
Yes.

392
00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:15,100
And I ain't scared of nobody.

393
00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:16,100
Period.

394
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:18,100
So, that's it.

395
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:24,100
I know if I was in your shoes, if I was in your shoes, 21 years old in here for this,

396
00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:29,100
you know, in San Quentin, in what's probably the most intimidating part of it, in this,

397
00:15:29,100 --> 00:15:33,100
the badger section, I would find that intimidating.

398
00:15:33,100 --> 00:15:36,100
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, we two different people.

399
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:37,100
Yeah.

400
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:42,100
You know, the type of life I grew up around is way worse than this.

401
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:43,100
You know what I'm saying?

402
00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:47,100
I gotta wake up hearing gunshots and people getting killed on the streets.

403
00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:49,100
I mean, this ain't, this ain't nothing.

404
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:50,100
You know?

405
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:51,100
Is that pretty normal?

406
00:15:51,100 --> 00:15:52,100
This ain't nothing here, man.

407
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:57,100
Is that a pretty normal officer for a new inmate, even if he's new to the whole experience,

408
00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:59,100
that he wouldn't even be fazed by anyone?

409
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:03,100
No, most, most new guys are, are fazed by it.

410
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:07,100
And, and, you know, they're overwhelmed, a lot of them, with what's going on.

411
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:14,100
But Anthony here better not show any, uh, signs of being overwhelmed because, you know,

412
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:17,100
he's, he's with the, you know, he's with the real criminals.

413
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,100
And so he has to, uh, you know, keep up a good front.

414
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:26,100
And that, you know, he can't show weakness.

415
00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:27,100
Why?

416
00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:30,100
Weakness is, uh, people, they got people that prey on weakness.

417
00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:32,100
And how would they prey on it?

418
00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:33,100
Uh, you know what?

419
00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:34,100
This is, this is prison.

420
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:37,100
You know, they, they got all different types of things.

421
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:41,100
They'll take their, uh, canteen, you know, the stuff that they buy from the store.

422
00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:43,100
Uh, things like that.

423
00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:45,100
If you show any weakness, that, that stuff's gone.

424
00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:48,100
Uh, even sometimes your manhood, you know.

425
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:51,100
So, uh, you know, he's doing the right thing.

426
00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:55,100
He, he's staying strong and, and, uh, not showing any weakness.

427
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:58,100
That's what he has to do in order to survive.

428
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:03,100
And just to be clear, your, your contention is that you didn't, you didn't do anything wrong, actually.

429
00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,100
You were wrong, you were wrongly, wrongfully convicted.

430
00:17:05,100 --> 00:17:06,100
Of course.

431
00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:08,100
Yup, of course, man.

432
00:17:08,100 --> 00:17:09,100
9-11.

433
00:17:09,100 --> 00:17:10,100
Ain't it?

434
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:11,100
Yeah, I know a job.

435
00:17:11,100 --> 00:17:12,100
I'll take you back.

436
00:17:12,100 --> 00:17:14,100
Yeah, I know a job.

437
00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:15,100
I'll take you back.

438
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:17,100
Yeah, the old D.

439
00:17:17,100 --> 00:17:18,100
I know a job.

440
00:17:18,100 --> 00:17:19,100
It won't be a job.

441
00:17:19,100 --> 00:17:20,100
I know a job.

442
00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:22,100
Right here, the old D.

443
00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:52,080
guitar solo

444
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:57,680
Breakfast time at San Quentin is a carefully regimented operation

445
00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,880
where more than 2,000 inmates are fed in a series of 20-minute sittings

446
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:05,800
and given brown-bag lunches to eat later in their cells.

447
00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:13,700
I was going to be eating with two of the members of the Barbarian Brotherhood

448
00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:14,800
who I'd met in Yard.

449
00:18:15,340 --> 00:18:18,280
I was hoping to learn more about the way the gangs work inside prison

450
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,420
and looking forward to my first taste of prison food.

451
00:18:21,420 --> 00:18:22,820
What is this?

452
00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:24,980
That's like potato shit.

453
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:26,520
Potatoes? What's this?

454
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,560
It's supposed to be SOS, like gravy.

455
00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:30,300
Gravy.

456
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,720
Do you see the politics of the place right now?

457
00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:38,340
Yeah, I see all blacks at one table, all whites at one table.

458
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,020
Everybody keeps an eye on watches.

459
00:18:43,020 --> 00:18:48,400
Like I watch the kids, I see anybody like taking trains or food off the other hand's trains,

460
00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:49,460
I'll be watching that shit.

461
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,080
If you were black and you offered me some of that food, I couldn't take it.

462
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:57,960
Really?

463
00:19:00,540 --> 00:19:00,940
Why?

464
00:19:00,940 --> 00:19:03,040
It's just part of the rules, man.

465
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:04,460
Prison rules?

466
00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:10,660
If you didn't, you'd get beat up.

467
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:11,780
Who would beat you up?

468
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:14,240
Me.

469
00:19:18,460 --> 00:19:19,180
This guy.

470
00:19:19,180 --> 00:19:24,700
You would really do that?

471
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:25,340
Yeah.

472
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:27,680
We'd have to get you.

473
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:28,520
I'd do.

474
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,060
We'd tell you not to do it first, and then we'd get you.

475
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:35,600
How?

476
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,360
Probably just mob you.

477
00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:40,420
Like two or three dudes would just attack you.

478
00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:44,120
Three dudes would come up and attack me?

479
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:45,100
And do what?

480
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:45,620
Humble me?

481
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:46,260
Punch me?

482
00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:47,220
How bad?

483
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:48,960
Until the cops stop them.

484
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,820
You really mean it?

485
00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:54,920
Yeah.

486
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:57,520
Why would you do that?

487
00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:02,720
Tell them, Nick.

488
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,160
It's just how it is.

489
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:08,760
Hungry, man.

490
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:19,880
It was hard to believe they could be so brutal about something so trivial, but I wondered

491
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,720
if these strange codes of conduct were a way of creating gang loyalty and camaraderie

492
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,540
in surroundings designed to keep inmates apart.

493
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:30,820
So what's the plan now?

494
00:20:30,820 --> 00:20:31,680
You go back to your cell.

495
00:20:31,820 --> 00:20:32,880
Yeah, for the rest of the day.

496
00:20:32,940 --> 00:20:33,760
For the rest of the day.

497
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:34,240
Yeah.

498
00:20:34,340 --> 00:20:34,880
And that's it?

499
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:35,080
Yeah.

500
00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,700
That's it?

501
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:35,720
That's it?

502
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:35,740
That's it?

503
00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:35,760
That's it?

504
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:35,800
That's it?

505
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:35,820
That's it?

506
00:20:35,820 --> 00:20:35,860
That's it?

507
00:20:35,860 --> 00:20:35,880
That's it?

508
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,740
That's it?

509
00:20:38,740 --> 00:20:42,800
See you later, guys.

510
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,060
A little later, Eric was taking me back to West Block.

511
00:21:01,060 --> 00:21:07,000
The prisoners were now locked down in their cells for the rest of the day.

512
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,880
You were up there on the, it's called the gun rail, is that right?

513
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,680
And what have you got in your gun?

514
00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:14,440
Regular bullets?

515
00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:16,380
Yeah, these, yeah, 223 rounds.

516
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:18,360
223 rounds?

517
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,100
Yeah, they have a ballistic tip on them so that if I do fire that they don't ricochet out

518
00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:22,600
the cement.

519
00:21:23,340 --> 00:21:24,720
They're a non-ricocheting bullet.

520
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,780
If someone managed to jump from here down to there, would you be authorised to shoot at

521
00:21:28,780 --> 00:21:29,660
them at that point?

522
00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:30,660
Um, yes.

523
00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:31,660
Yeah.

524
00:21:31,660 --> 00:21:32,660
I would...

525
00:21:32,660 --> 00:21:34,540
And that would be shoot to disable or shoot to kill?

526
00:21:34,540 --> 00:21:35,540
Yeah.

527
00:21:35,540 --> 00:21:36,540
No, shoot to disable.

528
00:21:36,540 --> 00:21:37,540
Shoot to stop the threat.

529
00:21:37,540 --> 00:21:38,540
Please, get up here, please.

530
00:21:38,540 --> 00:21:39,540
All right.

531
00:21:39,540 --> 00:21:42,380
I was in West Block to meet an inmate who was due to be released.

532
00:21:43,020 --> 00:21:44,500
His name was Bradley Warlidge.

533
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:45,920
How are we doing?

534
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,820
But he preferred to be called Deborah.

535
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,840
I'm Luke, my name's Lou, I'm from the BBC.

536
00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:51,360
Hi.

537
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:53,820
You're getting out on Friday, is that right?

538
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:54,860
How about that?

539
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:55,760
How do you feel about that?

540
00:21:56,300 --> 00:22:00,060
Um, I'm, I'm excited about it.

541
00:22:00,620 --> 00:22:02,340
So do you consider yourself a man?

542
00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:04,800
A transgender woman.

543
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:05,640
A transgender woman.

544
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,140
Um, and so, uh, tell me a little bit about how you ended up here.

545
00:22:09,980 --> 00:22:13,760
Okay, well, I guess, um, how would...

546
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,820
I've been doing this for like almost 20 years.

547
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:16,520
What?

548
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,080
Coming to prison.

549
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:19,320
In and out?

550
00:22:19,580 --> 00:22:19,900
Yes.

551
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,500
What were your convictions for?

552
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:28,680
For robbery and stolen car, being with guys that were criminals, kind of going along

553
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:29,040
with them.

554
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:30,880
I mean, how long were you in this time?

555
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:32,760
Three months.

556
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:33,520
Three months.

557
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:34,280
How's it been?

558
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:35,500
It's been okay.

559
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,060
Cypher, I'm always having to worry about getting moved.

560
00:22:39,820 --> 00:22:41,620
Why didn't, who, is there someone in there now?

561
00:22:41,780 --> 00:22:42,060
Uh-huh.

562
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:42,580
Who?

563
00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:43,260
My partner.

564
00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:44,400
Your partner?

565
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:45,820
And how did you find each other?

566
00:22:45,940 --> 00:22:50,100
They just moved him in the, in the cell and one thing led to another.

567
00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:50,740
Hello.

568
00:22:51,460 --> 00:22:52,220
How you doing?

569
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:52,660
Good.

570
00:22:53,660 --> 00:22:56,080
What's your, what's your name if I may ask?

571
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:56,740
My name is Robert.

572
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:57,860
May I open it?

573
00:22:57,980 --> 00:22:58,960
Yeah, let me put my suit in.

574
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:02,960
How you doing?

575
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:03,440
Good.

576
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:04,620
What's your story?

577
00:23:04,740 --> 00:23:05,720
How, what brought you in here?

578
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,660
Um, well, right now I'm going, I have to go back to the county to get my sentence and

579
00:23:10,660 --> 00:23:12,460
I think I'm probably going to end up getting three years.

580
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:13,260
Four.

581
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:26,220
Um, automobile theft, assault on an officer, driving while intoxicated, uh, hit and run with injuries,

582
00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:28,220
so on and so on and so on and so on.

583
00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:30,340
So how do you feel about Debra leaving on Friday?

584
00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:32,480
Uh, I'm happy for her.

585
00:23:32,860 --> 00:23:33,180
Really?

586
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,080
Yeah, absolutely.

587
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,720
She could do better on the streets since she came in here, you know what I'm saying?

588
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:39,720
What is it that works about the relationship?

589
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,240
I don't know.

590
00:23:42,780 --> 00:23:43,480
It just does.

591
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,240
She's real special, you know what I'm saying?

592
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:47,240
Shut up like that.

593
00:23:47,420 --> 00:23:47,780
Shut up.

594
00:23:48,780 --> 00:23:51,780
Do you think this relationship could survive outside of you?

595
00:23:51,780 --> 00:23:51,820
Oh, it will.

596
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:52,720
Yours?

597
00:23:53,020 --> 00:23:53,460
It will.

598
00:23:54,140 --> 00:23:54,540
Absolutely.

599
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:56,160
Absolutely.

600
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:57,500
Yeah.

601
00:23:57,500 --> 00:24:02,260
It's interesting because I know in a lot of, a lot of, a lot of times something like

602
00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:04,280
this could be circum, you know, situational.

603
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,500
Yeah, circumstantial situation to, you know, circumstances where, yeah.

604
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:08,800
Yeah.

605
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:10,880
Forts together, making do.

606
00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:13,200
Yeah, just making whatever, but I don't know, you know.

607
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:20,660
A lot of, uh, there's a lot of, uh, there's a lot of people that, they try to separate us,

608
00:24:20,740 --> 00:24:21,260
you know what I'm saying?

609
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,840
They, they, just like today, they try to separate us, you know.

610
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,200
People are jealous of us, you know what I'm saying?

611
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:30,020
Uh, people really hate on us.

612
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:31,880
You mean people in here can be closed-minded?

613
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:32,340
Absolutely.

614
00:24:32,340 --> 00:24:33,040
What, they judge you?

615
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:35,140
I, I don't, yeah, people, of course they do.

616
00:24:35,340 --> 00:24:36,060
Of course they do.

617
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,500
Of course people judge me, you know?

618
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:39,780
Because that's not always it.

619
00:24:39,780 --> 00:24:43,480
It's, it's that usually trying, you know, some, somebody wants to get one of the girls

620
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:44,540
in their cell or whatever.

621
00:24:44,980 --> 00:24:47,540
What it is, is, you know, these guys are like, uh.

622
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:49,280
They're starved for companions.

623
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:49,640
Yeah.

624
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,080
W said one of the guys would want to get one of the trends in his cell.

625
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:53,500
Absolutely.

626
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:53,940
For what?

627
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:54,760
For what?

628
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:55,660
For relationships.

629
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,120
Out loud.

630
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,940
Uh, to, you know, mainly it's a lust, lust, you know what I'm saying?

631
00:25:01,020 --> 00:25:03,120
A lust, that's true, though, isn't it?

632
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,600
They get to have a relationship and they get to have a little house and go to work every

633
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,560
day and come home every day and, you know?

634
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,480
I know you said, Rob, that, um, you'd like to continue the relationship on the outside.

635
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,040
Do you, do you feel the same way?

636
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:17,100
Do you?

637
00:25:17,220 --> 00:25:17,440
Mm-hmm.

638
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:19,160
Absolutely.

639
00:25:20,500 --> 00:25:21,900
I'm almost part of your thought.

640
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:24,220
Oh, he's barely 30.

641
00:25:25,220 --> 00:25:25,760
I'm almost 27.

642
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,020
Right, that's what I mean.

643
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:30,720
So why not?

644
00:25:32,060 --> 00:25:33,620
No, he's a lot better than that.

645
00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:35,280
It's a lot more than just that.

646
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,100
I actually like this guy.

647
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:37,880
Hey, hey, hey.

648
00:25:38,380 --> 00:25:39,560
Hey.

649
00:25:40,980 --> 00:25:41,520
Please, guys.

650
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:41,940
All right.

651
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:42,820
How are you going, dude?

652
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:43,160
Bye, guys.

653
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:44,220
No!

654
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,340
No!

655
00:25:48,820 --> 00:25:58,980
Can you tell us what's going on?

656
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:00,140
Can you say what's going on?

657
00:26:00,140 --> 00:26:04,040
Well, I knew it didn't look good in here, so.

658
00:26:06,860 --> 00:26:08,080
But no, I don't know yet.

659
00:26:10,380 --> 00:26:11,140
What do we got?

660
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:11,640
What's here?

661
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:14,240
What's here?

662
00:26:16,380 --> 00:26:25,700
What do you think is going on?

663
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:31,540
I'd just be guessing right now, so.

664
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,820
It must have been a false alarm, actually.

665
00:26:35,140 --> 00:26:36,340
You actually, you know what?

666
00:26:36,780 --> 00:26:38,980
That's the first time I've seen you look a little bit worried.

667
00:26:39,180 --> 00:26:43,200
Well, that's because I didn't like the way it looked in here the moment we walked in here.

668
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:49,760
They're down to, I think there's only about three or four officers in the whole unit right now.

669
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,380
If there was like a mini riot in here and they would lock this building, we'd be in here.

670
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:53,920
That's correct.

671
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,980
We would have been locked in there for a while.

672
00:26:57,180 --> 00:26:59,160
And would I be deputized at that point?

673
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,340
I would, at that point, have to do everything to try to get us out of here safely.

674
00:27:05,340 --> 00:27:29,340
I was a few days into my stay at San Quentin, and so far what had struck me was how, in spite of the harsh realities of prison life, the inmates could still form relationships as comrades and lovers.

675
00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:33,260
And I even sensed a kind of warmth between them and the guards.

676
00:27:34,260 --> 00:27:36,860
I was also surprised how open they were with me.

677
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:41,580
They seemed almost grateful that someone from the outside was taking an interest in their lives.

678
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:42,760
How are you doing?

679
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:52,520
I was back in Carson's section, this time to meet an inmate who stood out even among these hardened criminals for the brutality of his crimes.

680
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:54,580
Okay.

681
00:27:55,260 --> 00:27:56,820
His name was David Silver.

682
00:27:56,820 --> 00:28:05,400
I understand you're serving quite a long stretch here.

683
00:28:05,820 --> 00:28:07,500
Oh yeah, very, very long.

684
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,460
I would say probably enough for all of us.

685
00:28:10,460 --> 00:28:20,500
What's your stretch?

686
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,220
What are you serving?

687
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:29,080
First I got to do 521 years and then 11 life sentences.

688
00:28:30,220 --> 00:28:32,760
How come so much?

689
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:44,480
Because I was on a brutal home invasion series type of thing, multiple home invasions.

690
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:46,040
Brutal in what way?

691
00:28:47,420 --> 00:29:00,380
Well, you figure I got convicted for 12 home invasions, home invasion robbery, multiple victims, brutally hurt, shot.

692
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,340
Damn, almost drowned.

693
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:07,980
Just a lot of torture tactics.

694
00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:10,480
Why were you doing torture tactics?

695
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,420
That's, well, of course, in a home invasion robbery, they're there to rob.

696
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:25,800
And if you don't feel they're giving up the information you need, you've got to pretty much torture someone to get the information you want out of them.

697
00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:27,680
Were you getting money for drugs?

698
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,320
No, I don't do drugs.

699
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,380
I don't do none of that.

700
00:29:31,380 --> 00:29:37,880
It's just to live, I don't know, a better life in a sense.

701
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:46,540
To have the more better things instead of, I mean, look at me, you know, not too many people are going to hire me to work for them, you know.

702
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:58,580
So sometimes I have no other choice but to resort to crime, you know, unless I want a slave in a field somewhere, but I'm not going to do that.

703
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:00,500
Were there any fatalities involved?

704
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:01,660
Did you actually kill anyone?

705
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:08,640
No, nobody died, but some people probably were at points where they wished they would have died.

706
00:30:10,940 --> 00:30:12,460
It's pretty serious.

707
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:18,240
A lot of them, you know, you figure there was a shootout with the police at the end.

708
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,480
You know, people were pretty shaken up.

709
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:27,720
Some things will never be forgotten.

710
00:30:28,740 --> 00:30:39,580
You know, I guess there was victims where they had their heads held under hot tubs for times at a time.

711
00:30:39,580 --> 00:30:45,220
Some were saying they were sexually assaulted with a pistol.

712
00:30:45,980 --> 00:30:50,280
How old were you when you were convicted of this latest round of crimes?

713
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:51,200
29.

714
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:51,960
29.

715
00:30:52,620 --> 00:30:53,920
So you're about 33 now?

716
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:54,360
Yeah.

717
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,080
And so had it become kind of a career for you at that point?

718
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,120
Well, yeah, I went to YA at age 11.

719
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:02,200
What's that?

720
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:03,820
Oh, California Youth Authority.

721
00:31:04,540 --> 00:31:06,320
I stayed there until I was 20.

722
00:31:07,380 --> 00:31:10,580
So, yeah, that's time.

723
00:31:10,780 --> 00:31:15,000
Then, you know, I went to prison at 22.

724
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:21,340
You know, I've been doing pretty much all I'm used to, unfortunately.

725
00:31:21,340 --> 00:31:27,840
You know, it's just now, I guess, I don't worry about getting out no more.

726
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:33,300
I just got to make my bed and live on through.

727
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:50,560
Hey, boy, look how packed it is.

728
00:31:51,540 --> 00:31:53,440
Got a lot of guys out here today.

729
00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:56,160
I was back with Officer Gladson.

730
00:31:56,620 --> 00:31:59,400
It was Yard again, this time for Alpine Section,

731
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,020
a block that houses inmates who were segregated from the rest of the prison

732
00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:04,100
for their own protection.

733
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:06,120
Can we get in there?

734
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:08,280
You know what?

735
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,580
I'm not sure if they'd let us in there or not.

736
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:11,960
Really?

737
00:32:12,140 --> 00:32:12,420
Yeah.

738
00:32:13,060 --> 00:32:16,060
Because usually that's so confined, there's too many people.

739
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,900
I'll ask, do you mind if I ask Eric?

740
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:20,640
I'll ask Eric.

741
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:24,320
OK.

742
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,360
Yeah, all right.

743
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:28,200
Yeah, Louie, we're going to go out there.

744
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,960
We'll keep it light, though.

745
00:32:32,260 --> 00:32:34,200
The sound and camera and Louie and you.

746
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,100
This is the handball court here, Louie.

747
00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:41,240
So who are the guys in here?

748
00:32:42,340 --> 00:32:44,200
Officer Gladson, these guys are...

749
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:45,000
What kind of characters are there?

750
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,460
These guys are mostly gang dropouts.

751
00:32:46,540 --> 00:32:46,760
Yeah.

752
00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:51,060
Some sex crimes, you know, with children.

753
00:32:51,060 --> 00:32:55,180
But they did some guys told on other people in court.

754
00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:57,620
But mostly it's gang dropouts.

755
00:32:59,380 --> 00:33:00,360
We talked to this guy.

756
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:01,560
Can we go meet this guy?

757
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:01,940
Yeah.

758
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:03,640
How you doing?

759
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:05,020
Yeah, pretty good.

760
00:33:05,020 --> 00:33:07,900
Did you explain your tattoos to him?

761
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:09,580
This one?

762
00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:10,060
Yeah.

763
00:33:10,380 --> 00:33:11,180
It says skinhead.

764
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:12,980
In what language?

765
00:33:13,780 --> 00:33:15,680
It's the Germanic runes.

766
00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:19,300
But you're dropped out of all that now, right?

767
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:19,440
Yeah.

768
00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:20,320
You dropped out?

769
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,240
How come you dropped out?

770
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,380
Because something happened.

771
00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:27,080
I'm a little bit foreign.

772
00:33:27,220 --> 00:33:30,280
Something happened where they wanted me to stab my cellie

773
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,700
and I only had 59 days left

774
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:33,980
just because he borrowed a black guy's dominoes.

775
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,460
That's why they wanted you to stab him?

776
00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:37,820
Yeah.

777
00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:40,020
Because he borrowed a black guy's dominoes?

778
00:33:40,100 --> 00:33:40,340
Yeah.

779
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:41,600
Trigger!

780
00:33:42,220 --> 00:33:43,240
Why didn't you do it?

781
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:44,000
What?

782
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:45,060
Why didn't you do it?

783
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,100
Because my mother was getting a pass away.

784
00:33:47,780 --> 00:33:48,560
And you wanted to get out?

785
00:33:48,620 --> 00:33:49,200
I wanted to get out.

786
00:33:49,380 --> 00:33:50,680
I only had 59 days left.

787
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,840
That seems so absurd,

788
00:33:52,940 --> 00:33:54,300
the idea that you would have to stab someone

789
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:57,600
just for borrowing a black guy's dominoes.

790
00:33:57,980 --> 00:33:59,580
Doesn't that seem ridiculous to you?

791
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:00,680
Yeah, it does.

792
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:01,300
It does.

793
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:02,200
For something so minor.

794
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,340
But now it's like my eyes are open to it.

795
00:34:09,700 --> 00:34:12,300
Do you see these guys as people just like you

796
00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:13,640
who've made different choices

797
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:15,860
or is it like a different choice for people?

798
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:17,300
Yeah, I could have made...

799
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:20,780
There were like 100 times

800
00:34:20,780 --> 00:34:22,320
I could have made the wrong choice

801
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:23,920
and ended up at the wrong place

802
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,780
when I was growing up.

803
00:34:25,940 --> 00:34:27,360
I could have ended up like my brothers.

804
00:34:27,460 --> 00:34:27,960
Why didn't you?

805
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:28,680
You know what?

806
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:29,940
I was actually...

807
00:34:29,940 --> 00:34:31,180
I wanted to...

808
00:34:31,180 --> 00:34:32,880
I didn't want to hurt my mom's feelings.

809
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:41,000
Do you make any friendships with the guys?

810
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,960
Oh, I get to know them real well.

811
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:44,600
I don't...

812
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,320
You know, we got to keep a hands-off approach

813
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,260
with these guys, you know,

814
00:34:48,340 --> 00:34:50,640
as far as you can't really become friends.

815
00:34:50,700 --> 00:34:52,360
But you get to know a guy over years.

816
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:55,160
You get friendly with them.

817
00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,640
But this is probably a religious program going on here.

818
00:35:01,180 --> 00:35:03,500
Guys will have their own religious programs.

819
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:05,380
That's what's going on.

820
00:35:05,380 --> 00:35:10,120
So what were you doing just now?

821
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,120
We just had a Bible study on...

822
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,620
Being true to yourself?

823
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:18,360
Being true.

824
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:19,420
Being true to...

825
00:35:19,420 --> 00:35:20,440
Being true to yourself.

826
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:21,860
Being true to Jesus.

827
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,000
Letting us know that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

828
00:35:26,780 --> 00:35:28,300
What was your original conviction?

829
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:30,820
Allowing a demon to take over my life.

830
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:32,140
In what way?

831
00:35:32,140 --> 00:35:40,780
To torment me through dreams and visions

832
00:35:40,780 --> 00:35:43,660
and physical assaults

833
00:35:43,660 --> 00:35:46,120
by opening the door to Satan,

834
00:35:46,660 --> 00:35:47,920
to demonic forces.

835
00:35:48,220 --> 00:35:49,140
What was your conviction?

836
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:50,620
I'm not going to say.

837
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:51,860
Not going to say?

838
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:54,020
For what reason?

839
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:55,780
Why wouldn't you say?

840
00:35:56,620 --> 00:35:57,920
Because it's not important.

841
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,060
Whoever opens a door to a demon

842
00:36:01,060 --> 00:36:03,520
whether it's by drugs

843
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,720
or we've got to get down.

844
00:36:05,980 --> 00:36:06,920
Okay, get down.

845
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:07,440
Get down.

846
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:07,500
Get down.

847
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:18,520
Okay, let's go over here.

848
00:36:19,820 --> 00:36:21,500
You guys go ahead and walk in front.

849
00:36:21,500 --> 00:36:40,960
What was the...

850
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:54,720
What was the shots fired on East block yard shots fired on East block yard?

851
00:36:56,860 --> 00:36:59,940
That's quite a big thing, isn't it? Oh, yeah, that's a gigantic thing.

852
00:37:00,940 --> 00:37:05,660
So what do we do? Huh? What should we do? We can't go there. So it's death row.

853
00:37:05,660 --> 00:37:12,860
So we got a shooting. We got a shooting. Well, we have the gun, so we have a shooting on East block yard right now.

854
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:23,620
Probably some type of serious assault, one inmate on another, and the armed gunmen have had to discharge their weapon to stop the incident.

855
00:37:23,820 --> 00:37:30,760
You know what was weird? What was weird was when we were out there, we were coming back, and then the atmosphere had been quite friendly, and then the atmosphere went a bit ugly in there.

856
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,620
Did you feel that? Yeah, when the alarm went off.

857
00:37:32,620 --> 00:37:36,580
It was sort of getting heckled, and people were saying, you know, get out of our yard.

858
00:37:36,740 --> 00:37:38,700
Well, it's because of the area that we were in.

859
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:39,380
Why?

860
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:48,760
Because the area over there, those guys have, some of them have crimes that they don't want people to know who they are or where they're at.

861
00:37:48,980 --> 00:37:49,800
Child molesters?

862
00:37:50,220 --> 00:37:51,320
Yeah, you could say that.

863
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,240
So we'll be right back.

864
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,280
Oh, my God.

865
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:58,520
Hey.

866
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:22,520
Hey, David!

867
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:39,520
It was dinnertime at San Quentin.

868
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:43,520
I'd arranged to eat with a couple of inmates from Alpine section.

869
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:48,520
A gay man called Chris Mitts and a transsexual named Dee Dee.

870
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:54,520
Since meeting Debra and her partner Rob, I'd been curious about the romantic relationships between prisoners.

871
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,520
Are you wearing a little bit of make-up?

872
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:57,520
What?

873
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:58,520
Some mascara?

874
00:38:58,520 --> 00:38:59,520
Yeah.

875
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,520
How come?

876
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:08,520
Honestly, on the streets, I'm just a gay boy.

877
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:28,520
I don't really act or dress feminine, but I've learned that in prison for homosexuals, instead of being the masculine gay male, having the feminine side, although it does bring a lot of unnecessary attention on myself and a lot of it negative, I think it makes it a little bit more easier to be openly gay.

878
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,520
The more womanly you become, the more respect you get.

879
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,520
Not necessarily respected.

880
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:44,520
I just think, instead of being, like, someone wanting to beat you up or hurt you, they're like, oh, that's a girl, you know, I ain't gonna, excuse my leg, fuck with her or stuff like that.

881
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:46,520
You know, it's an image.

882
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,520
It's not reality, you know, I'm not really a girl.

883
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,520
But in a sense, when I portray myself that way, it makes things go a little bit more smoother.

884
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,520
How are you feeling, D.D.?

885
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,520
Well, I'm concerned about it.

886
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:00,520
She's right.

887
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:14,520
Because you cause more negative attention on yourself when you try to hide being a homosexual and they find out that you're a homosexual later on.

888
00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:25,520
I don't know, I guess it's a psychological thing where they feel that you are playing a game or, like, we have to show them or nothing, but that's just the way prison life is.

889
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:37,520
People that are feminine and use makeup, like things that they do, attracts a lot of attention from inmates, seeing that female affection, we have that female aura, and they seek that and they want that.

890
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,520
Have you found anyone there?

891
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,520
Yeah, I have, as a matter of fact.

892
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,520
He's sitting right there, with the glasses right there.

893
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,520
He's really a special guy.

894
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:52,520
He can't take his eyes off you.

895
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,520
No, he can't.

896
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,520
I can't take my eyes off of him either, practicing most of the time.

897
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,520
But a lot of prison relationships, it's unhealthy environment, that kind of thing.

898
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,520
And I've hesitated in the past, but this just happened, so I'm just going with the flow.

899
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,520
Is it like being gay, right, and behind bars?

900
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:14,520
You sure have your pick of hundreds of men in a way, do you know what I mean?

901
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,520
Like, is there a case for saying it's quite a good place for you to be?

902
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,520
Like I said, I think this is still an unhealthy place to have a relationship, period.

903
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,520
I mean, this isn't the ideal place to have a relationship.

904
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,520
After dinner, Chris took me back to Alpine to meet his new boyfriend, Ronnie.

905
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:32,520
How are you doing?

906
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:33,520
I'm doing pretty good.

907
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:34,520
You're Ronnie?

908
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:35,520
Yes.

909
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:36,520
I'm Louis.

910
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,520
So you and Chris here are kind of an item now?

911
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:41,520
Yeah.

912
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:42,520
You know what I mean?

913
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,520
It's very funny that you'll see something like this, especially in the past entry.

914
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,520
Why are you in protective custody, by the way?

915
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:48,520
Me?

916
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:49,520
I'm an ex-gang member.

917
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:50,520
Which gang?

918
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,520
I was a Nazi lowrider for 14 years, yeah.

919
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:58,520
And now you're in what basically, to me, would seem like a homosexual relationship.

920
00:41:58,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Yeah.

921
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:00,520
Would you consider it that?

922
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:01,520
Yeah.

923
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:02,520
I guess you could say that, yeah.

924
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,520
And yet you're a former Nazi lowrider.

925
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,520
Yes.

926
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,520
Isn't that kind of a contradiction?

927
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,520
Yeah, I've been on dropout for seven years now.

928
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,520
What would your Nazi lowrider buddies think if they saw you now?

929
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,520
Uh, I wouldn't be too happy.

930
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:21,520
You know, like I said, I...

931
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:22,520
And Chris, aren't you...

932
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:23,520
He scared me.

933
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:24,520
Chris, aren't you Jewish?

934
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:25,520
Yeah.

935
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:26,520
You're Jewish?

936
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:27,520
Yeah.

937
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,520
And you're a former Nazi?

938
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,520
Yeah, a white supremacist, yeah.

939
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:34,520
Yeah.

940
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:36,520
The second most notorious prison gang in California.

941
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,520
Doesn't that make it even, from the Nazi perspective, doesn't it make it even worse that Chris

942
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,520
is Jewish?

943
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:43,520
No, not really.

944
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:44,520
Because I look...

945
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:45,520
You know what I mean?

946
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:46,520
I look at her as a human being.

947
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,520
And that would be like, this white guy right here, you know what I mean?

948
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:50,520
I don't...

949
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:51,520
You know what I mean?

950
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:52,520
I really don't look at it like that.

951
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,520
But you're not white supremacists.

952
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,520
You're not a white supremacist anymore.

953
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:56,520
No.

954
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:57,520
He's looking at this.

955
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:58,520
I look at what's in the heart, not for...

956
00:42:58,520 --> 00:42:59,520
You know what I mean?

957
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:00,520
For...

958
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:01,520
Not the skin color.

959
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:02,520
You know what I mean?

960
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,520
So you two haven't started rooming together yet?

961
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:05,520
No.

962
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,520
So does that mean you don't know whether the physical side of it will work or not?

963
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:09,520
Uh, no.

964
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:10,520
We haven't...

965
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,520
We haven't went that far yet.

966
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,520
You know what I mean?

967
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,520
Yeah.

968
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:17,520
What are you laughing at?

969
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:18,520
Do you see?

970
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:19,520
It's more than sexual.

971
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:20,520
It's not just sexual.

972
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:21,520
It's a companionship.

973
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:22,520
It's a companionship.

974
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:23,520
You know what I mean?

975
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,520
Especially when you're in a penitentiary, it's not too many people that you can actually

976
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,520
talk to and hold a normal conversation with.

977
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:29,520
You know what I mean?

978
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,520
And it's different when you find somebody that you're actually compatible with.

979
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,520
I mean, did I ever think that I would be, you know, attracted or compatible with a person

980
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:36,520
like this?

981
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:37,520
Not in a million...

982
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,520
I mean, I'm almost 38 years old.

983
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,520
No.

984
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:40,520
Not in a million years.

985
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:41,520
You know what I mean?

986
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,520
But, I mean, sometimes you don't have no control over what happens.

987
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:46,520
He's been married for almost 13 years.

988
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:47,520
You're married?

989
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:48,520
But...

990
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,520
To someone on the outside?

991
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,520
So what's she gonna think when she sees this?

992
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:53,520
Well, it's...

993
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,520
Well, she watches the program.

994
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:56,520
You know what I mean?

995
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:57,520
I'm really tripping.

996
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:58,520
You know what I mean?

997
00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:59,520
It's...

998
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,520
It's, you know, it's a chance that you gotta take sometimes.

999
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:02,520
You know what I mean?

1000
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,520
And especially, you know, it's a chance you gotta take.

1001
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:05,520
You know what I mean?

1002
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:06,520
And when you...

1003
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:07,520
You got two kids?

1004
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:08,520
Yeah, I got two kids.

1005
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,520
13 years of marriage and now this, out of nowhere.

1006
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,520
That's pretty special to me.

1007
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,520
The end of my time at San Quentin was drawing near,

1008
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,520
but there were some prisoners I wanted to see again.

1009
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:38,520
I was on my way to Carson Yard to catch up with Playboy Nolan.

1010
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,520
He was getting out soon, and since our last chat,

1011
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,520
I'd found out he was a marked man,

1012
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,520
having dropped out of an infamous prison gang.

1013
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,520
Risk of reprisals meant his yard time was restricted

1014
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,520
for his own protection to a metal cage.

1015
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:53,520
You doing good?

1016
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,520
I'm doing good today.

1017
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,520
So this is where you get your yard?

1018
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,520
This is where we get our yard about once a week

1019
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,520
for about an hour and a half, two hours.

1020
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:02,520
And it's like a little cage in itself.

1021
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,520
They call this a walk alone, don't they?

1022
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:05,520
Yeah, they call this the rats.

1023
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:06,520
They call this the what?

1024
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:07,520
Walk alone.

1025
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:08,520
Oh yeah, this is a walk alone section.

1026
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:09,520
What did you say, rats?

1027
00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,520
Yeah, I thought that was what you said.

1028
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:12,520
It's the walk alone section right here.

1029
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:13,520
What were you going to call it?

1030
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:15,520
No, I thought this is the rat section.

1031
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:17,520
I heard somebody say the rat section.

1032
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,520
By active gang members, you'd be considered rats?

1033
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:20,520
Yeah.

1034
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:21,520
Would you?

1035
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,520
Yeah, they consider us the worst of the worst.

1036
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:24,520
Do they?

1037
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,520
Because we don't affiliate or let ourselves be pushed into politics, you know.

1038
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:29,520
Which gang were you in?

1039
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:30,520
I was a northerner.

1040
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:31,520
And why did you drop out?

1041
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:33,520
Basically because of the politics.

1042
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,520
I just don't like being told what to do.

1043
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,520
A lot of individuals like to.

1044
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:39,520
I just don't like that.

1045
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:41,520
I like to do as I choose, you know.

1046
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,520
I mean, there's gang members out on that yard.

1047
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:45,520
On the bigger yard, yeah.

1048
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:46,520
Right now.

1049
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,520
If we put you in there right now.

1050
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:51,520
There would be conflict.

1051
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,520
What would happen?

1052
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:54,520
There would be a big fight out there.

1053
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:55,520
Really?

1054
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:56,520
Big melee out there.

1055
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:57,520
They'd get you?

1056
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:58,520
They'd try and get you?

1057
00:45:58,520 --> 00:45:59,520
I'd try to get them hurt.

1058
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:00,520
What do they do here?

1059
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,520
What part of life do they control?

1060
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:07,520
The whole part of being in the gang is to orchestrate unity as one together, you know.

1061
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,520
If I need food from someone, my white brother would give it to me.

1062
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:15,520
If I need security, backup, my white brother would give it to me.

1063
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,520
Same with the blacks.

1064
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,520
And each individual.

1065
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:18,520
If you've got a beef with someone.

1066
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:19,520
They'll back you up.

1067
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:20,520
Just like your brothers.

1068
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:21,520
Drugs?

1069
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:23,520
Drugs, they take care of you.

1070
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:24,520
All that kind of stuff.

1071
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:25,520
But when you.

1072
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:26,520
Are there drugs in the.

1073
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:27,520
Are there drugs inside?

1074
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:28,520
Are there drugs in prison?

1075
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:29,520
Yeah.

1076
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:30,520
I.

1077
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:31,520
I.

1078
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,520
Me personally, I would say there's more drugs in prison than there are.

1079
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:35,520
Than people think.

1080
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:36,520
There's a lot.

1081
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:37,520
There's a lot of drugs.

1082
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:38,520
Everything.

1083
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:39,520
Is that bad to talk about?

1084
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,520
Can we talk about that, Eric?

1085
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,520
Go for it.

1086
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:43,520
Yeah.

1087
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:44,520
And so.

1088
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,520
And do the gangs control that by and large?

1089
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:51,520
The majority of the people that gang control the drug flow.

1090
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:52,520
But.

1091
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:53,520
You gotta understand though.

1092
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,520
Just because I'm on this side of the gate.

1093
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:56,520
And I'm not gang active, right?

1094
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,520
Don't mean I'm any lesser of a man than them out there.

1095
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:00,520
I can still fight like them.

1096
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:02,520
I can still make money like them.

1097
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:03,520
I can still.

1098
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:04,520
Attack.

1099
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:05,520
I can still program just like them.

1100
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,520
I just choose to do it on my own.

1101
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,520
Do you worry when you get out that the gang might still be after you?

1102
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:12,520
The threat is very high.

1103
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:13,520
Because.

1104
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:14,520
When you drop out.

1105
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,520
I dropped out of northern structure.

1106
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,520
My name goes onto a list called the.

1107
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:18,520
The bad news list.

1108
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,520
And those people right there.

1109
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:21,520
Are supposed to be killed.

1110
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:22,520
They're supposed to be through.

1111
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:23,520
They're supposed to be killed.

1112
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,520
So the gang you were in.

1113
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:25,520
The northern.

1114
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:26,520
They put you on that list.

1115
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,520
The gang that you were in.

1116
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:28,520
The northern structure.

1117
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:29,520
Put you on a bad news list.

1118
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:30,520
Yeah.

1119
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:31,520
It's a list that's been written down.

1120
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,520
It's a list that's been written down.

1121
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,520
From every single prison.

1122
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:36,520
From every single.

1123
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,520
High.

1124
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,520
Higher person.

1125
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,520
Higher up.

1126
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,520
And they put your name on that list.

1127
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,520
And the objective of the individuals on the streets.

1128
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:45,520
Is to control the drugs.

1129
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:46,520
And the money.

1130
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,520
And to kill these certain people.

1131
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:49,520
And don't get me wrong.

1132
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:51,520
When I was out there this time.

1133
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,520
You watch new stuff on the streets.

1134
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:55,520
And you see dudes with tattoos.

1135
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:56,520
Kill, murder.

1136
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,520
It's just a wake up call.

1137
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:01,520
Like.

1138
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:02,520
It's reality out there.

1139
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:03,520
That's a gang hit.

1140
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:04,520
Yeah.

1141
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,520
What was it that got you involved in the gang in the first place?

1142
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:07,520
It was.

1143
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:08,520
My brother for one.

1144
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:09,520
He was.

1145
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:10,520
He's a part of the northern structure.

1146
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:11,520
He's still affiliated to this day.

1147
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:12,520
Right.

1148
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:13,520
But not only that.

1149
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,520
Me growing up on the streets.

1150
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,520
And that acceptance feels good.

1151
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:19,520
You know.

1152
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:20,520
Like.

1153
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:21,520
When someone says they love you.

1154
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:22,520
I go right.

1155
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:23,520
I love you.

1156
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:24,520
I got your back.

1157
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:25,520
It just made you feel good.

1158
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,520
I got your back anymore.

1159
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:27,520
Nah.

1160
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,520
Nah.

1161
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,520
Nah.

1162
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:30,520
Nah.

1163
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:31,520
Nah.

1164
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:32,520
I got my own back.

1165
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:33,520
But it's alright though man.

1166
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:34,520
I'll.

1167
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,520
I'll be alright.

1168
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:36,520
I know that.

1169
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:37,520
Been.

1170
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:38,520
I'm alive this long.

1171
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:39,520
So.

1172
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,520
Who says I want to live 50 more years?

1173
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,520
It was sobering that Playboy would always have a price on his head.

1174
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:49,520
I wondered whether he'd ever be able to leave the prison life behind.

1175
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,520
Back in Carson's section, I caught up with Officer Alejos.

1176
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,520
What do you see happening with Playboy Nolan?

1177
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:56,520
He'll be back.

1178
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:57,520
He'll be back.

1179
00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:58,520
He'll be back in here?

1180
00:48:58,520 --> 00:48:59,520
He'll be back.

1181
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,520
Anything?

1182
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,520
Oh I know so.

1183
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,520
He'll be back.

1184
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:03,520
A lot of these guys can't function out in the streets.

1185
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:04,520
They have a hard time.

1186
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:08,520
They have a hard time following the rules and the responsibility.

1187
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:09,520
That's a big thing.

1188
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,520
They have a hard time with responsibility on the streets.

1189
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,520
They don't know how to adjust to anything.

1190
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:15,520
They don't know how to learn those skills.

1191
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:16,520
They don't want to.

1192
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:17,520
Not that they can't.

1193
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:18,520
They don't want to.

1194
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,520
I mean why would you want to learn a skill when you've got free room and board here?

1195
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:25,520
Wouldn't you agree it's better on the outside?

1196
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:44,520
You see but here in prison there's somebody out there on the streets or nobody.

1197
00:49:44,520 --> 00:50:05,520
It was my last day at San Quentin.

1198
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:10,520
The one part of prison life I still hadn't seen was the release of prisoners.

1199
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:17,520
Back at receiving and release the daily ration of inmates were getting ready to leave and in theory start their new lives.

1200
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,520
How many are going out today?

1201
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,520
We got 27 total going out today.

1202
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:25,520
27. That's quite a few.

1203
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:26,520
Yeah.

1204
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,520
You've worked this job for a while I take it.

1205
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:29,520
Five years.

1206
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:34,520
Five years and you know from what you know and understand looking at these guys out here do you have any sense of

1207
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,520
Do you think all these guys are going to stay out? Maybe half?

1208
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,520
Do you think most people will come back?

1209
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:49,520
I would say at the most probably with 27 guys going out today I would probably see about more than half come back.

1210
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:50,520
How soon?

1211
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,520
It could be a matter of days or a matter of months.

1212
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:58,520
All human beings are creatures of habit you know and these guys are creatures of habit.

1213
00:50:58,520 --> 00:50:59,520
They go back to their old neighborhoods.

1214
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:05,520
They tend to fall into the same with the same groups of people that still disobey the law and they get caught up.

1215
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:14,520
How do you feel about going home?

1216
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,520
I'm nervous because I haven't had no human contact for three years.

1217
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:29,520
I've been in a cell by myself for three years. No windows. No sunlight. Just lockdown. 24 hours a day lockdown.

1218
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,520
So what happens now? You just wait here until late. When are they going to actually let you go?

1219
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,520
Whenever they decide to show up.

1220
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:40,520
Another of the inmates going out today was Deborah.

1221
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,520
How are you doing?

1222
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:46,520
I just wanted to say a quick hello.

1223
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:47,520
Hi.

1224
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:48,520
Have you said goodbye to Rob?

1225
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:49,520
Yes.

1226
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:50,520
This morning?

1227
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:51,520
Yes.

1228
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:52,520
What was that like?

1229
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:53,520
It was kind of sad.

1230
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:57,520
But you know, I'll do what I'll do and I'll see how this goes.

1231
00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:58,520
Yeah.

1232
00:51:58,520 --> 00:51:59,520
Yeah.

1233
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:03,520
He seemed to be hoping to continue the relationship, didn't he?

1234
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:04,520
Yes.

1235
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:05,520
And you feel the same way?

1236
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:06,520
Yeah, sure.

1237
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:13,520
I mean, you know, I've been doing this a long time and I don't have very much faith in these guys as far as long distance goes.

1238
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:21,520
But he's new to this, this whole environment. He's not really, you know, he's not one of these guys.

1239
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:26,520
I think he, I don't know, we'll see. I sure hope so. I hope it's, you know.

1240
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,520
So you're, you're a little more realistic maybe, are you?

1241
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:31,520
Yes.

1242
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,520
I mean, I believe that his heart is where it's, where he says it is, you know.

1243
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:40,520
But time and conditions change, so we'll see what happens.

1244
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:45,520
It seems unlikely that he'll find anyone else, you know, inside, doesn't it?

1245
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:46,520
Yeah.

1246
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:49,520
Well, you never know. I don't know.

1247
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,520
Better not.

1248
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:03,520
I wondered whether Deborah would stay out this time and how much she even wanted to.

1249
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:09,520
I realised that many prisoners had spent so long institutionalised that San Quentin was now their home.

1250
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:14,520
With little contact with family and friends, their real relationships were here.

1251
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:21,520
And as much as the prison walls kept others out, they also forced those on the inside together.

1252
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:39,520
Before leaving San Quentin, I had one last inmate I wanted to see again.

1253
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,520
Armed robber and self-confessed torturer, David Silver.

1254
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:49,520
With 521 years to serve, plus 11 life sentences, Silver would never leave prison.

1255
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:55,520
It seemed hard to fathom such an existence, or even whether a life like that was worth living.

1256
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:56,520
How are you doing?

1257
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:57,520
All right, all right.

1258
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,520
Are you getting a bit of yard time?

1259
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,520
Yeah, the little that I can get.

1260
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:03,520
Yeah.

1261
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,520
You know, I don't get much here.

1262
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:07,520
Are you in...

1263
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:08,520
Are you actually...

1264
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:09,520
Have you got handcuffs on?

1265
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:10,520
No, I'm cool.

1266
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:13,520
It's just kind of a habit to stand this way.

1267
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:14,520
Yeah.

1268
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,520
You know, you get handcuffed so much, you kind of pick up that little habit.

1269
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:24,520
When we spoke last time, one thing I don't think I asked was, you know, whether you felt remorse.

1270
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:25,520
Yeah.

1271
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:26,520
About what you did.

1272
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,520
That's something you didn't ask me.

1273
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:33,520
Yeah, I feel remorse all the way for some things.

1274
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,520
I was wrongfully convicted for some things.

1275
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:43,520
But the things that I was convicted for, I accept all responsibility for my own actions.

1276
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:49,520
And, you know, now that it's said and done, I've had a lot of time to think about a lot.

1277
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:57,520
And, you know, naturally, you know, I mean, if I don't feel bad, then I'm just a cold-hearted person.

1278
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:02,520
Can you say anything to make me understand why you did those things?

1279
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:04,520
Um...

1280
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:08,520
Well, to understand it, you'd have to...

1281
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:12,520
You'd have to somewhat think it was okay to do it.

1282
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,520
So, I don't think you'll really ever understand it.

1283
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:19,520
Have you ever wondered whether there might be something wrong with you, mentally?

1284
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:24,520
I always wondered, well, is there some kind of chemical imbalance that I got?

1285
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,520
But then, you know, I think, no, I know better, you know?

1286
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:31,520
So, I don't think it's something that I act without thinking.

1287
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,520
When I said that about you, you smiled a little bit when I asked if you thought there was something wrong with you, mentally.

1288
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,520
So, you had thought about that a little bit.

1289
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:43,520
Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, if I never thought about that, then there probably would be something wrong with me.

1290
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,520
Do you feel you've got a life in here?

1291
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,520
You can make a life in here.

1292
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:48,520
You can make a life in here.

1293
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:49,520
Yeah.

1294
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,520
You can actually, uh...

1295
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,520
You can make a life as comfortable as it can get in here, uh...

1296
00:55:55,520 --> 00:56:00,520
If you put your mind to it, as far as, hey, I can look...

1297
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:06,520
You know, it's a sad way to look at it, but in reality, it makes you more sane, too, as...

1298
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:09,520
I could just say, well, you know what, I'm on my 401k.

1299
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,520
I'm always gonna have food.

1300
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,520
I'm always gonna have shelter.

1301
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,520
I ain't gotta worry about the stresses of losing my job.

1302
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,520
I ain't gotta worry about none of that type of stuff, no more.

1303
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:22,520
I'm gonna be taken care of until I die.

1304
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,520
I can look at it that way, uh...

1305
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:35,520
And try to ignore the other things in life, as far as all the things that just make you smile, like, you know, out riding on the boat in the water, or whatever, you know?

1306
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,520
Other little things in life.

1307
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:42,520
As long as it don't exist to me, I'm here, then it won't bug me.

1308
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,520
Unless I wanna put myself, you know, torture my mind and...

1309
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,520
So you just narrow your horizons a bit.

1310
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,520
You know, the only thing that you don't have in prison...

1311
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:57,520
...is freedom to an extent, right?

1312
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:01,520
And there's no, you know, women, as far as...

1313
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,520
Other than that, that's just...

1314
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,520
You know, that's just a little...

1315
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:07,520
...helps in life, you know?

1316
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:09,520
But you can get over all that, you know?

1317
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:13,520
If you can't, then yeah, you're gonna make your time a little more rough for you.

1318
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,520
But after so long...

1319
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,520
...that stuff's not even important no more.

1320
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:20,520
Shirt off.

1321
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:21,520
Huh?

1322
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:22,520
I'm going in.

1323
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,520
Shirt off.

1324
00:57:24,520 --> 00:57:25,520
Shirt off.

1325
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:26,520
Shirt off?

1326
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:27,520
Yeah.

1327
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:28,520
Shirt off.

1328
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:29,520
When did they start this shit?

1329
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:30,520
I don't know.

1330
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:37,520
Get back on.

1331
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:41,520
Wait, they're all now.

1332
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:42,520
Go.

1333
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:44,520
Yeah.

1334
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,520
That king was riddled from the bone of Cane.

1335
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:51,520
With the little top of poison and her red, red blood.

1336
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,520
She need a way to turn around the bed.

1337
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:56,520
She said, I wanna walk away and start over again.

1338
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:00,300
Dot King was whittled from the bone of Cain

1339
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:04,440
With a little type of poison in her red, red blood

1340
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,120
She need a way to turn around the bend

1341
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,940
She said, I want to walk away and start over again

1342
00:58:10,940 --> 00:58:13,960
There are things I've done I can't erase

1343
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,900
I want to look in the middle, see another face

1344
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:20,560
I said, never, but I'm doing it again

1345
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:24,740
I want to walk away and start over again

1346
00:58:24,740 --> 00:58:28,200
No more rain

1347
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,360
No more roses

1348
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:34,560
On my way

1349
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:39,700
Now, ten minutes later than planned, we've highlights from Bolton vs Blackburn

1350
00:58:39,700 --> 00:58:44,060
and Sunderland vs Portsmouth. Match of the day two next here on BBC2

1351
00:58:44,060 --> 00:58:47,420
and later celebrating the new European city of culture.

1352
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:51,140
It's Liverpool 08, the opening weekend in 45 minutes now

1353
00:58:51,140 --> 00:58:54,600
at the later time of 10.55, here on BBC2

1354
00:58:54,600 --> 00:58:58,060
William Ray shot Corbell Lee

1355
00:58:58,060 --> 00:59:24,160
Tell old Dog