1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:15,660 are they rubber bullets what kind of are they are they rubber bullets no sir they are not 2 00:00:15,660 --> 00:00:25,560 no they're not no they're normal bullets for what for what in what in what eventuality would 3 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:32,860 they be used so they will only be used if they fire at us then we will retaliate with fire 4 00:00:32,860 --> 00:00:42,120 johannesburg in this city of widespread poverty and unemployment residents have found themselves 5 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:51,540 increasingly besieged by crime i take your wife i put a knife here like example you see the blood 6 00:00:51,540 --> 00:00:59,340 i say i finish up now you don't give me money or you give me what can you say despairing of the 7 00:00:59,340 --> 00:01:05,580 police and the courts they've turned to an industry of private security offering protection for a price 8 00:01:05,580 --> 00:01:13,440 it's quite a weird atmosphere isn't it feels a little bit lawless i was here to try to understand 9 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:20,280 the causes of the crime and to find out whether these private police are really a solution or 10 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:26,040 another part of the problem in britain this would be considered too much if we beat him like this 11 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:31,080 he won't do this again he won't steal again he won't steal again 12 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:48,840 on the outskirts of johannesburg is a township come squatter camp called deep salute 13 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:55,400 it's only existed since 1994 and now has more than a hundred and fifty thousand residents 14 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,640 most of them migrants from rural areas and neighboring countries 15 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:08,920 i was here with william myengoni the local coordinator for a security firm called mopogo 16 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:15,300 what does it mean when someone goes like that at you as you drive past what does that mean 17 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:21,600 no i didn't see you i saw someone do that no i didn't see you what does it mean you must be killed 18 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:31,280 the threat is a threat yeah why would they do that to us no you'll never know you'll never know 19 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,620 you'll never know 20 00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:41,560 are you worried about you're worried about no i'm worried about you you're worried about myself 21 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,400 about us what about what's happening to us if you see what they're walking 22 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:51,180 colleagues gathering together the people you'll be in danger what does it mean well they can start 23 00:02:51,180 --> 00:02:56,100 hitting you with the stones they can start shooting because plenty of the guns around here 24 00:02:56,100 --> 00:03:03,260 then if we can't stay on one place for we can't stay in one place no why not william no you can't 25 00:03:03,260 --> 00:03:08,140 afford it you will never stop it i'm trying to understand william is like because i don't i don't 26 00:03:08,140 --> 00:03:11,640 know anything about this area and about south africa and joeburg's got this reputation 27 00:03:11,640 --> 00:03:18,940 as being very dangerous having a lot of violent crime yeah because and a lot of unemployment 28 00:03:18,940 --> 00:03:26,600 people a lot of unemployment yeah you can see most of us here we are not working they must look 29 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:32,860 another way of living it's just the same if you're hungry you must try it i would cut the fence up 30 00:03:32,860 --> 00:03:37,420 then you can pick up something to eat if you don't do that then you have no food 31 00:03:37,420 --> 00:03:45,820 william lives in a house on a hill overlooking the township of deep sloot 32 00:03:45,820 --> 00:03:50,560 it also serves as the local headquarters of mopogo 33 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:57,200 what do you do what does your organization do our organization to say people that has got problems 34 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:03,760 like uh shop owners home uh the owners of the houses the residents if they've got problem like 35 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:10,900 the uh these skeletons are trying to break into their houses or rob them mopogo helps them from that 36 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:18,800 you call them skeletons or we can call them suspects and if you find the suspects what then 37 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:25,200 uh we mapogo if we find the suspicion we give him some medicine then give him either give him to the 38 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:32,400 police or uh let him go and what do you mean by medicine medicine is you know uh forcing somebody to 39 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:39,600 talk something he did and he didn't want to say it you using some physical punishment yeah we have got a 40 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:46,720 punishment of mopogo only to let it uh let him talk and that's what makes mopogo slummers famous 41 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,920 and controversial too isn't it yeah because it's not strictly legal is it no no no it's not 42 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,920 so you're a little like an unofficial police force that's right that's it yeah 43 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:08,160 people in deep sloot have little faith in the real police seeing them as unreliable and slow to respond 44 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:14,880 for those residents who can't afford the services of william and mopogo they rely on a volunteer 45 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:23,040 group headed up by walter lesole hi my name is walter how do you do i'm the chairperson of this sector 46 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:28,880 and what do you do here yeah this is sector police you're watching the community really yeah so now 47 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:32,720 like as you see we are battling we are trying to get some donations so that you can 48 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:40,320 build our office what what happened to your office no i thought they did burn it i don't know it's last 49 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:46,400 year last of last year who burned it i don't know part of those criminals i don't know is there a lot 50 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:53,120 of crime in this area in deep sloot yeah but mostly during the morning and during the night what kind of 51 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:59,680 thing something just are taking people and robbing them to their belongings in the morning is it 52 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:06,400 desperate hungry people that do it or or bad people that's a bad people you think so yeah that's a bad 53 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:12,480 people what because you can find them during the day roaming around yeah roaming yeah it's 54 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:19,440 down maybe drinking or doing everything or smoking those things whatever when you hear someone's been 55 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:25,120 robbed what do you do we're trying to track that criminal sometimes you caught him sometimes you 56 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:31,440 don't catch that criminal so and then take the metal straight to the police so they take time but we 57 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,440 are helping them 58 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:56,240 in the heart of johannesburg an area called hillbrow is the stomping ground of a security company called 59 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:04,480 bad boys run by hendrick de clerk how's it going nice to meet you much of their activity involves 60 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:11,360 reclaiming and securing buildings that have been taken over or hijacked by criminal gangs who illegally 61 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:20,720 take rent from tenants what are the telltale signs of um of this building being hijacked um telltale signs 62 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:27,360 is uh broken windows dirty the pavement has not been looked after no lightning at night you can see the 63 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:31,680 washing hanging from the trees it's actually a beautiful example and the people who live here are 64 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:37,680 paying rent to the hijackers are the hijackers in there now do you think no no no they just they'll 65 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,480 have the heavies around coming checking collecting rent especially mountain heavies are they like 66 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,640 mafia guys mafia guys yeah could we go in there is there any we're going to see anything if we go in 67 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:56,000 there before we go here you can actually see the just don't stand here they throw your things you 68 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:03,520 can actually see the decay no plumbing um no maintenance at all broken doors broken windows 69 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:09,520 and it's what was going on in there because that is that it's a tavern it's a tavern yeah and um 70 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,960 there's electrical boxes that's been damaged illegal connections and stuff 71 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:20,400 there's broken staircases as well and two dustbins in a whole building and how do these buildings 72 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:27,680 i mean are they breeding places for crime yes yes a lot a lot um your small street soldiers the guys 73 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:33,920 that snatch the phones um smash the windows at uh robot peak hour and grab phones and handbags they 74 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,320 live in buildings like this and then they take the phones and the stuff to your nigerians who ever 75 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:43,360 purchase uh the stuff you said robot peak hour that's what is that rush hour smashing grabs yeah 76 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,640 smashing grabs stop signs it stops stop stop lines at night 77 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:54,240 this building with uh quite a bit of nonsense the guys were shooting at us with ak-47s at night 78 00:08:54,240 --> 00:09:00,160 they used to shoot at the police officers um this was one of the first hijack buildings and a guy 79 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:05,520 that hijacked the building used to call himself hitler so he ran his own little uh show down there 80 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:09,520 and eventually he died left by the sword he died by the sword he got shot in in the building there as 81 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:17,440 well the hijacking himself who shot him um the other hijacking group took over yeah once the buildings are 82 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:24,000 reclaimed bad boys take over the management and protect the tenants in what is one of the city's highest 83 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:32,240 crime areas are any of these guys out here actual drug dealers most of them most do you recognize 84 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:39,440 any of them i know a lot of faces do you uh where's the chairman where's chairman where's the chairman 85 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,800 the tall one chairman they've got their own chairman they've got their own boss 86 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:54,320 so what what do you do here you run a business he's a chairman he runs all the businesses yeah 87 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:59,280 if you ask me on my own my own opinion i would say you know bad boy they are doing your work 88 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:03,120 bad boys yeah they are they are they are trying you see because all over the hebrew bad boys not 89 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,520 take over that's why the crime is not too much like before it's getting better you think yeah you 90 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:14,800 think it's getting better yeah and how do you two know each other uh long time um just mutual respect 91 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,280 you've known each other a few years long time a few years and you get on quite well very well would 92 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:27,120 you agree you get on pretty well yeah yeah i know him yeah it's my position thanks thank you very much 93 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,960 you seem to have a good rapport with him yeah yeah but what does he actually do he's the chairman he's in 94 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:41,040 charge of everyone here all the criminal elements really is he like a gang boss yeah yes yes and what 95 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,880 i said to him is um our understanding is stay away from our buildings leave our tenants alone you do 96 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:51,120 your business my business is not on the street i'm not getting paid to uh look after the street corner 97 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:56,960 but if you interfere with my business there's how to pay if you interfere with one of my tenants 98 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:02,560 there's how to pay and i got a message who are these guys around him that's usually tenants and stuff 99 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:09,600 and then on the corners is his boys all the guys so the guys who uh the guys who deal drugs they're 100 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,400 behind everything some way somehow they're behind everything so you have to kind of work with those 101 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,960 guys a little bit no they must work with me this is my area they must work with me i don't want problems 102 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:31,360 i don't want to work with them i don't want to work with them i don't want to work with them 103 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,560 with public services overstretched the police sometimes call on private agencies to back them 104 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:44,080 up on big jobs in hillbrow again bad boys and a company called red ants were helping with the eviction 105 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:50,480 of a hijacked building i was riding along with the deputy director of red ants farnie fanfuran 106 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,720 are they already going in what's happening is this the building that's the house there they 107 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,920 secure the premises so the the cops have already gone in with their guns yeah they go in to secure 108 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:08,880 the building and take out all the legal immigrants that's there and once they are finished then they 109 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:17,120 go and move into the moving people sheriff can i talk to you for a second yeah sure one of the 110 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,040 officers has just fired some shots maybe some resistance i don't know 111 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,680 it's quite weird atmosphere isn't it feels a little bit lawless 112 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:38,000 what do you think yeah what what can we do 113 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,800 jesus christ you're just firing at those guys 114 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,960 what's happening let me just finish it before we go in they're just making sure everybody's out 115 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,320 so the guys who come out first who are put on the ground there are the most dangerous characters 116 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,720 now what to do is they take the guys out then they search them there they make sure that they 117 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,680 citizens they're not south african citizens they get arrested right and also for illegal firearms 118 00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:14,080 it seemed like the police were firing rubber bullets to disperse small crowds is that yeah to 119 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:20,000 disperse them from gathering because why because if they gather like this at any stage they can attack 120 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:25,760 you as a mob as a mob yeah that could really happen within seconds it will happen within seconds 121 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:35,280 right right right right were you living in this building yeah it's like uh we are renting in this 122 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:40,240 building and now we're surprised that we're sleeping and then someone come and keep the door open and 123 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:46,320 we're told to get dressed in the sessions right down on the floor according to these guys the owner says 124 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:52,400 that um it's been illegally occupied and that he's not getting rent from it so who who are you paying your 125 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,320 rent too there's a there's this other black guy who told us that is an agent to the this white to 126 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,520 the owner of the house uh so he's coming at every my every month to come and collect the rents 127 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:09,920 really yes so you're paying the rent to the wrong guy it sounds like one of them said they were paying 128 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:14,800 rent to a guy who they thought was the agent of the owner and only you see this 150 random yeah these 129 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,960 guys get caught by that they think they are paying to the real owner but in fact they're paying 130 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,760 to the person who hijacked the building normally we help them to take the children out with them 131 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,720 uh but if you think that on the owner's side of the building he's losing every month every day 132 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,280 they're staying here he's losing i mean it must be quite dangerous going into these places sometimes 133 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:41,520 people do get hurt most people how often two three a month lose people lose people get killed in 134 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:48,320 fights yes red ants do red ants and then civilians as well they tackle you hand to hand they fight 135 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:53,040 you combat hand to hand you've got no choice to defend yourself and that's what that close combat 136 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:59,360 that's where you get your injuries with the building emptied bad boys had arrived on the scene 137 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:06,240 leading the team was bad boys co-director lionel williams so what's happening here you're going to send 138 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,280 in your guys now yeah the red is going to finish now with the police and then we will secure the 139 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:16,240 building after the eviction so that nobody else go back into the building nobody's allowed to go inside 140 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:24,160 so we're going to lock up the building and secure the building okay stand you two guys wait two guys come 141 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:37,440 do the criminals and the hijackers ever try and take the buildings back from you certain not from us 142 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:44,720 certain buildings but not from not from bad boys not from bad boys we didn't have one attempt really yet 143 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,760 how come the hijackers don't try to chase you out of the building because we can fight 144 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,760 we can fight any which way you want us to fight we can fight we can fight with the law we can fight 145 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:06,320 within the law and we've got different other tactics we can do we will force to be reckoned with 146 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:13,280 let me tell you something for for the hijackers they know we we don't look for a fight but if they want 147 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:19,440 to pick a fight then we're not going to stand back we can get pushed so far and that's it 148 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:29,760 that's it 149 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,280 on the outskirts of deep salute i'd had a call from william of mopoko to say he had a suspect in 150 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,680 custody the man was alleged to have been stealing cell phones 151 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,600 william hello how are you doing all right what's going on here 152 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:53,760 oh well we got him he's in the car now you've got your suspect yeah is that the guy in there 153 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,440 looks like he's bleeding a little bit yeah is he bleeding a little bit yeah he got the medicine 154 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:08,240 what's he suspected of doing yeah that's uh from uh uh taking robbing people some money and all these 155 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:13,440 watches cell phones what makes you think it's the right guy the right guy we got one of the cell phone 156 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,560 to him we have given back to the owner he had one of the stolen he could have bought the stolen phone 157 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:25,520 i know where he could he can show us where what did you do to him exactly a shambok you shamboked him 158 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:32,320 where's the shambok oh well that's a we're not supposed to produce it on the thing on the film it 159 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:42,480 doesn't doesn't doesn't look good no it's not unlawful 160 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:52,560 the medicine this is the medicine but don't use it but don't use it no we've already used it 161 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:58,560 that's what you whipped him with just now yeah no the good ones they are there but the locations 162 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,960 not that one but one like it no this one is too heavy that's a smaller one than that 163 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,320 disturbed by the goings-on i tried to speak to the beaten man 164 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:14,000 new english then asked my fixer sydney to interpret 165 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,040 he doesn't want to talk is he frightened and hurt is that 166 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:37,120 what's happened here can you tell what's what's happened here they've just taken 167 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,560 him because he committed some crimes they think is that right no he did committed 168 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:48,800 he did yeah i heard that him and his friends they pointed some other people with gandhi too 169 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,160 really yeah i hear it when they talk yeah 170 00:18:54,560 --> 00:19:01,120 william did you shambok him yourself no no the guys are can't i'm not allowed to do it anymore 171 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:08,560 why i'm on suspender for five years are you yeah i mustn't do that if i do that they lock me up now 172 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:15,680 now now now now really i must wait still there which which guys did it the one this guy here yeah 173 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:21,440 that guy another one how do you do so you were doing part of the how do you do i'm louis 174 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,680 abraham were you doing part of the interrogation yeah yeah it's me 175 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:35,760 yeah it's quite uh brutal quite brutal a little bit yeah what do you think you think it's good 176 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:41,200 to do this yes it's good for the community is it for the community is good in britain this would 177 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:47,840 be considered too much too much yeah almost every time we do something like this beating him yeah we beat 178 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:58,320 him that's how my bow is working that's how my poker works does it work yeah how yeah you see 179 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:04,720 some if we beat him like this he won't do this again he won't steal again he won't steal again 180 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:12,000 he won't never william are you calling the police now yeah will they come and pick him up yeah they 181 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:21,120 can come no problem then i must go if we wanted to see this guy's wounds would that be allowed no 182 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:30,080 no you don't want to show them why not no that's he's going to if we do it that way then the police 183 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:36,960 is going to tell the police then we will be in trouble where is this is there a chance if the police 184 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:43,040 see that he's been beaten that they will they are going to phone me up and then we talk really yeah 185 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:49,520 might might abraham might abraham get in trouble yeah well they'll have to face me because i'm the 186 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:55,840 ringleader and then what will you say no there's some plans of dealing they must get the money if you 187 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:02,160 haven't got money nothing will come all right they're just going to log him up must have money to do 188 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,920 do that you'll make a donation to the police yeah if i don't do that then they're going to lock me up 189 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,040 the aftermath of the interrogation was strange to witness 190 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,760 i wasn't sure what to make of william's casual descriptions of the violence 191 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,320 or whether to believe his claims of police corruption 192 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:31,840 i wondered if his clients knew about his techniques a little later we visited the manager of a nearby farm 193 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:39,760 this is one of your big contracts yeah for years and years for years for how long oh how long 194 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:49,120 10 years 11 years does the farm here pay mopoko a subscription to keep an eye on the place yes 195 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:58,560 we have a uh a retainer fee and he charges us for armed guards and it costs quite a lot of money but 196 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:06,080 uh you know if i lose 10 head of cattle it's the amount that i pay him is it's minimal but you're 197 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:13,120 looking at you know 25 000 a month oh what is 150 plus pounds a month yeah 198 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:24,480 which is quite a lot yeah it is but uh you know without that we'd be in serious trouble really 199 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,840 yeah i mean they haven't clutched the cattle here since they've been here but before that 200 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,040 we had major problems in the past have been criticized for having quite harsh techniques 201 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:40,400 including interrogating and some corporal i believe so but i haven't seen much 202 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:50,560 police do nothing so you know what can you do if you knew for a fact say that william's techniques 203 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:56,000 were slightly rough around the edges you would think that was okay you know that's because of the 204 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:03,600 seriousness of the situation yeah you know i had to say it but it's uh it would appear to be a 205 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,080 an african solution for an african problem 206 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:17,760 that's why i don't know what's going on down in the main area of deep sloot there were reports of 207 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:25,520 unrest i went to see walter the sector police volunteer to find out more how are you doing 208 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:32,720 walter good to see you thanks a lot how's it going all right what's going on there were burning 209 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:38,480 some people inside yeah they were burning people who was burning people the more open i guess this is 210 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,920 the community really yeah but i was not around just here from the phone they told me that they 211 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:49,280 somebody was killed inside someone was killed when last night no this morning 212 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:56,160 yeah what are you going to do about it now i have to go inside and then i have to look at the 213 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:01,360 situation now really what was the motive the motive that these people they were 214 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,880 are taking people robbing them last night 215 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,680 by the rose robin them their belongings cell phones everything there was a mob going around 216 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:19,120 robbing people no that mob was the uh the community's response yeah they caught the suspect it was like 217 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:25,200 a vigilante mob who cornered the um guys who'd been doing the robbing yeah and killed him yeah 218 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:32,960 really how did they kill him no they always used the stones and after that they put petrol in 219 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:44,640 and burn somebody was this where he was killed yeah one of them yeah it is where one of them was uh was 220 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:50,240 killed so i think this is the blood the blood's underneath that's why the the dirt's on there 221 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:55,600 yeah that's why they put the the soil i think so how did they kill him what did they use they said they 222 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:03,680 use bricks on his head yeah he was also there a big hole there did the police come they just came when 223 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:10,000 the guys raised dead they didn't even try to help or rescue the guy do you think he was a criminal 224 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:17,440 yeah that's because the one lady that are not so shows that guy would so does that guy this guy was 225 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:24,400 taking my cell phone she pointed the guy out to the community i mean people are killed like chicken 226 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,440 chickens like people are killed like chickens yeah how how often does something like that happen 227 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,400 here i mean there's two this morning even last week last week it happened again yeah they've been 228 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:42,240 somebody down there also can you try and find the ring leaders yeah but that is what i'm going to get 229 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,800 but we have to get it it will take time because we have to go through information is it possible there 230 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:54,240 are one or two guys who are mainly responsible yeah it might be but you'll find that mostly those 231 00:25:54,240 --> 00:26:01,200 people that they've been robbed really yeah back at walter's headquarters a recent victim of a 232 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:07,360 shooting wanted to share his frustration when there's crime like this what can be what can we 233 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:13,280 do to solve this problem can you give us some at least a plan because the police they're failing 234 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,680 they're totally failing they just run through the roads this is the people that crime commit crime 235 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,920 around corners really you see that's how it's very much difficult to to apprehend these guys where 236 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:33,280 were you shot can you show us yeah let's come out from here and um that looks like it would have 237 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:39,680 been quite serious and i went to ask me to report the case after they told me to bring the witness 238 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:45,120 instead of the police coming to the scene of the crime they never came i dropped the case i never followed 239 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:51,520 anything up so if myself if i get someone they say this one is a rope i can assist to kill 240 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:58,400 because there's no solution which means i must solve it on our own in the impoverished conditions 241 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,080 of deep salute a violent response to crime was in some ways less surprising than the ability of 242 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:12,400 people like walter to take a peaceful stand against it this is your place yeah this is my place this is 243 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:28,160 your house the reflectors where did you get the uniform it's from the government is it yeah when 244 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:34,080 you fight crime what do you actually what do you do you go on patrol yeah we go on patrol and when you 245 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:39,440 go on patrol you actually make arrests isn't it quite dangerous yeah it's very very very dangerous 246 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,840 because uh it's not easy to face somebody for example a criminal with a gun and you just come 247 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:54,000 like me like that yeah because we are we can uh we are not fighting crime with crime ourselves so the 248 00:27:54,560 --> 00:28:00,640 the thing that we are doing is just to arrest and then take you to to the police so that they can 249 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:05,760 detain you don't punish them no you don't punish you don't you don't you don't shambok them no or punish 250 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:20,640 them no why not no it's the law that's what i'm saying you can fight crime with crime yeah 251 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:34,560 you don't have a way friday nights tend to be the most violent time around the hijacked buildings 252 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:40,720 of hillbrow and i'd arranged with bad boys to join them on patrol my chaperones for the evening would 253 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:47,920 be lionel and his fellow director matthew dludlu have you brought a weapon with you yeah we carry weapons 254 00:28:47,920 --> 00:29:00,320 every day do you yeah i mean hand guns do you've got one here now of course all right wow it's quite 255 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:08,000 big one isn't it yes have you ever had to discharge that gun in the line of duty yes really yes at the 256 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:13,360 target not a warning sometimes sometimes this is a warning shot just to scare the guys a bit to scare 257 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:22,560 him off um sometimes shooting at the at the suspect itself you've done that yeah i've done it we've 258 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:29,840 done it you too matthew yes where's your gun oh you want to see my gun yeah i'm always with my son 259 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:37,680 here next to me there it is yeah that's my parapellum i call it uh parapellum luca it's quite big as well 260 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:52,400 yeah it is big we started the night close to the scene of the eviction i'd been at i was curious 261 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:57,840 about a hijacked building i'd noticed that was more than 10 stories high what's this building up 262 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,680 here this is the one that you said was hijacked and had no electricity yeah i think it's uh just 263 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:09,920 semi-hijacked can we have a closer look we're not going to go inside why not because it's it's we 264 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:14,240 don't want conflict with there now you said there might be guys sitting out in there can we have a 265 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:19,680 look from closer up though yeah we can go walk over there what would happen if we go inside then they 266 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:26,480 might uh you know get a bit aggressive and stuff who's they they being who the people who live there 267 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:34,160 running the building how do they get in through here through there little holes here what would 268 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:40,720 happen if we can't go in i do want to go in hi well you can you can i don't want to go inside let's see 269 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:47,600 how he goes it's it's dark inside very dark inside very dark it's the smell is you can go until up to 270 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,280 first floor before first floor first floor okay let's go just to fail up to first floor 271 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,160 so these were the lifts once upon a time were they yeah yeah 272 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:06,400 yeah that's there 273 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,480 come louis i can go up you go first then you can go i'll go behind you can you go 274 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,560 it's very dark here 275 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,280 what exactly are we afraid of there's just guys with guns here they do have firearms here 276 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:38,960 all the robbers might be staying here come so it could be a hideout yeah if you can just look in 277 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:50,160 it's it's it's empty it smells in here oh god maybe this was from cars at one time was it 278 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,880 yeah but you think the hijackers of the building would live here or would live somewhere else no 279 00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,040 they wouldn't live here only the guys that maybe basically work for them will live here 280 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:05,680 because the hijackers making money he doesn't have to live here you can live comfortably somewhere 281 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:11,920 else just first hello hi how are you how are you 282 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:24,400 so back on hi can we talk to the people you want to speak to the gentlemen you live here yes can we see 283 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:30,400 your room let's go please no problem no let's go on yes i'm there 284 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:40,080 so this is your place yeah it's my place i'm sleeping yeah you sleep there i'm sleeping you see my 285 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:47,120 pictures that do do you do you work do you have a job i i finished school last year 286 00:32:47,120 --> 00:33:04,240 and these two do you have jobs no how long have you been in this apartment eight years 287 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,200 other people on all the floors yeah all the way to the top yeah all the floors 288 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:18,480 yeah lionel had mentioned guys with guns but there were none inside that i met just people 289 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,160 without jobs and without money oh yeah it was this way 290 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,320 quite horrendous yeah you can't live in those conditions there 291 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,480 and was it what was it was it quite a nice building wow as you can see it was a very nice 292 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,040 but professional people yeah you can see the the security things they had in place the turnstiles 293 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,160 and stuff you can see they were left and everything yeah maybe they were just left here 294 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:53,120 a little later and outside a bad boy's building a man ran past pursued by four or five assailants 295 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:11,520 so why did you why did you beat the do you know why did you beat the guy up why did you so i can 296 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,840 give a statement i hear that guy why you know what this guy we're all together we don't know who that 297 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:24,240 guy is we don't know where he comes from and he smashes a bottle at us i mean really no we was not 298 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:31,200 we come out of a nice time he's i don't know where he come from so i i punched him now and then 299 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:38,080 baby 300 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:47,920 i didn't do nothing 301 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,360 look 302 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,540 waititor 303 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:01,640 OK. 304 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,560 Rob, little fuckers! 305 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:14,560 The hell of us! 306 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,380 In the midst of the melee, 307 00:35:17,860 --> 00:35:21,080 bad boys had accidentally blinded each other with pepper spray, 308 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:26,560 while the victim of the original attack was bloody and semi-conscious. 309 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:27,980 You OK? 310 00:35:28,980 --> 00:35:30,920 Oh, man, he looks quite beaten up. 311 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,320 Do you think we should call an ambulance for this guy? 312 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:36,320 Oh, Moss? 313 00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:38,160 Moss, get water! 314 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:40,560 Who sprayed you? 315 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,080 My supervisor. 316 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:53,680 Ask him or is he getting an ambulance for you? 317 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:57,720 Matthew, what's he saying? 318 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,280 Does he want us to give him an ambulance, Matthew? 319 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,340 Must he call an ambulance for you or are you all right? 320 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:05,460 I am all right. 321 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:06,140 You're right. 322 00:36:06,380 --> 00:36:07,180 Why did they attack you? 323 00:36:07,180 --> 00:36:07,660 I don't know. 324 00:36:08,140 --> 00:36:08,540 You don't know? 325 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:10,140 They said that you threw a bottle at them. 326 00:36:10,140 --> 00:36:13,520 What's your face with the water? 327 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:14,520 I don't know, I don't know. 328 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:15,380 Come, wash your face. 329 00:36:16,820 --> 00:36:19,920 It's not that badly injured, but he's got a very deep cut here. 330 00:36:19,980 --> 00:36:20,400 Yeah, exactly. 331 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,020 But it needs stitches, so... 332 00:36:22,020 --> 00:36:23,720 Well, we'll normally do this phone and ambulance. 333 00:36:24,340 --> 00:36:25,500 That might take two hours to come. 334 00:36:27,420 --> 00:36:28,780 That's the emergency services. 335 00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:35,480 By now, I'd been in Johannesburg several weeks. 336 00:36:35,980 --> 00:36:39,040 I'd been surprised by the brutality of the private police. 337 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:41,860 To make themselves effective against crime, 338 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,180 they'd showed a worrying readiness to use violence themselves. 339 00:36:45,180 --> 00:36:57,460 And things were about to take a strange and unexpected turn. 340 00:36:58,620 --> 00:37:01,280 My fixer, Sydney, had had an urgent call from William. 341 00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:03,000 The details were vague, 342 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,180 but it sounded as though William and his partner, Abram, 343 00:37:06,460 --> 00:37:07,340 might be in trouble. 344 00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:12,240 What's the story? 345 00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:14,440 It looks like William is in trouble. 346 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:15,120 Why? 347 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:17,200 He came in. 348 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,000 They were hunting for somebody like a criminal. 349 00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:22,100 They caught him. 350 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:23,260 They caught the criminal? 351 00:37:23,460 --> 00:37:25,080 Yeah, they put him inside the van. 352 00:37:25,820 --> 00:37:27,540 While they were trying to drive out, 353 00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,260 the community turned against William. 354 00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:32,220 Against William? 355 00:37:32,380 --> 00:37:34,800 Yeah, because they got the wrong story made. 356 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,700 I mean, when we go in, 357 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,900 Louis Martin mentioned William's name as if we know him. 358 00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:42,400 Okay. 359 00:37:42,660 --> 00:37:42,820 Yeah. 360 00:37:43,660 --> 00:37:44,160 Police. 361 00:37:44,540 --> 00:37:44,840 Okay. 362 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:45,340 Why not? 363 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:47,840 Okay. 364 00:37:52,100 --> 00:38:06,700 Right now, the crowd is angry with the old man. 365 00:38:06,700 --> 00:38:08,720 Yeah, the crowd is angry with the old man. 366 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:11,060 So they want to hurt him? 367 00:38:11,260 --> 00:38:12,380 Yeah, they want to hurt him. 368 00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:13,640 They wanted to know where, 369 00:38:14,060 --> 00:38:17,200 where is the guy they grabbed him? 370 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:20,340 You're saying this guy, 371 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:20,980 Willy, 372 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:22,020 a member of Mapa, 373 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,120 beat someone up that you know? 374 00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:24,580 Yeah. 375 00:38:24,580 --> 00:38:26,060 Beat him and knock his teeth out? 376 00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:26,140 Beat Donald. 377 00:38:27,140 --> 00:38:28,760 And so why is this crowd here? 378 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:29,700 This crowd, 379 00:38:29,820 --> 00:38:33,520 we want this guy to come here in front of us. 380 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:34,880 We want justice because that... 381 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,200 You want Donald to come here? 382 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,160 Yeah, and tell us what's happened. 383 00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:40,460 Because you're saying he's not a criminal. 384 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,480 Yeah, even if he's a criminal, 385 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,720 he must talk to us what happens. 386 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,660 Because this guy says he's going to burn him. 387 00:38:48,780 --> 00:38:49,260 This William. 388 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:50,920 William says he's going to burn him? 389 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:52,580 Yeah, he says he's going to burn him. 390 00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:53,640 Is that right? 391 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,740 Truly speaking, 392 00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:01,120 William told us that he's going to burn Donald to the party. 393 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,520 So we can't allow him to burn Donald to the party. 394 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:05,580 Can we ask him? 395 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:08,640 Can I just, 396 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:10,260 can we just have a quick word with this guy? 397 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:11,560 Just have a quick word. 398 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:14,440 Thank you very much. 399 00:39:16,940 --> 00:39:18,240 No car, no water. 400 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:19,160 Are you okay? 401 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:19,600 Okay. 402 00:39:20,060 --> 00:39:21,580 William, they're saying you beat someone up 403 00:39:21,580 --> 00:39:22,260 and threatened to burn him. 404 00:39:22,260 --> 00:39:22,700 No, he was, 405 00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:23,720 he's not, 406 00:39:23,860 --> 00:39:25,440 I can't use my hands on him. 407 00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:25,920 Yes. 408 00:39:26,140 --> 00:39:26,720 He's there, 409 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,240 he's somewhere there in the car. 410 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:29,680 They wanted to go to the police station. 411 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,980 Let me just go and bring him. 412 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:32,480 These guys seem very angry with you. 413 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:33,420 Yeah, they're very angry. 414 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,380 Well, what can I do? 415 00:39:34,420 --> 00:39:35,540 Because I'm not doing the job. 416 00:39:35,620 --> 00:39:36,200 I'm not eating. 417 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,500 Long back I used to do it myself. 418 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:39,580 Now I'm no more doing that. 419 00:39:39,860 --> 00:39:41,780 What was he accused of doing, the guy? 420 00:39:42,020 --> 00:39:43,820 He was breaking the fence, 421 00:39:43,820 --> 00:39:45,300 the cable, 422 00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:46,160 electric cables. 423 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,060 What do these people want to do to you? 424 00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:58,800 William, what do they want to do to you? 425 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,240 Ah, no, whatever they want, they can do to you. 426 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,260 Are you okay? 427 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:04,280 You seem a bit shaken up. 428 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:05,060 Are you shaken up? 429 00:40:05,060 --> 00:40:14,100 What do they want to do to William? 430 00:40:15,060 --> 00:40:16,340 They want to kill William. 431 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:17,120 Yes. 432 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,080 They want to ban him. 433 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:19,480 Yeah, we want to ban him. 434 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,860 Because he told us he's going to ban that Donald Le Quart. 435 00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:24,240 How can he ban him? 436 00:40:24,580 --> 00:40:26,520 He must call the police and not beating him. 437 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:27,820 It's what the police said. 438 00:40:27,820 --> 00:40:31,360 They said, if somebody has stolen somebody's property, 439 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,660 don't beat him, just call the police. 440 00:40:33,860 --> 00:40:36,180 How can they, Mabohamatama, beating him? 441 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,900 And I thought this leg was broken. 442 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:40,080 He can't even walk. 443 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,200 But why do you, so you want to burn him? 444 00:40:43,740 --> 00:40:46,500 Yeah, that William told us that he's going to ban him. 445 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,520 But you were saying you want to do something to William now? 446 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:51,420 It's the community. 447 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,760 It's the community that wants to. 448 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:54,080 It's the community. 449 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:58,980 After my encounter with the angry mob, 450 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,820 what struck me was the people's sense of themselves 451 00:41:01,820 --> 00:41:03,380 as enforcers of the law. 452 00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:05,500 Despairing of the police, 453 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,920 the community has opted to take matters into its own hands 454 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,040 by hunting down and burning those they suspect of wrongdoing. 455 00:41:14,940 --> 00:41:17,660 William and the beaten man were taken to a police station 456 00:41:17,660 --> 00:41:18,820 in a neighbouring precinct, 457 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:21,080 a safe distance from the squatter camp. 458 00:41:22,020 --> 00:41:23,160 What's happened to this guy? 459 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,380 How badly beaten is he? 460 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,420 He doesn't have the... 461 00:41:26,420 --> 00:41:27,840 He's missing a tooth? 462 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,420 He was beaten with the... 463 00:41:30,420 --> 00:41:32,480 With the golf stick. 464 00:41:32,620 --> 00:41:33,380 With a golf club? 465 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,040 Yes, and the Shamboks. 466 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:36,120 And Shamboks. 467 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:36,520 Yes. 468 00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:39,720 So which is, they know the law. 469 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,100 Those people, the William, they know the law, yes. 470 00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:44,440 Do you know what they did? 471 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:45,340 Yeah, we know him. 472 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:45,860 You know him. 473 00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:48,000 We used to work with him very, very well, 474 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:49,460 but today I don't know what happened. 475 00:41:49,460 --> 00:41:49,480 But today I don't know what happened. 476 00:41:49,480 --> 00:42:11,480 I was on my way to meet a pair of notorious criminals, 477 00:42:11,940 --> 00:42:13,960 known since childhood to our fixer, Sydney. 478 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,080 Since being in Johannesburg, 479 00:42:17,140 --> 00:42:20,180 I'd heard a great deal about the violent crime plaguing the city. 480 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,600 This would be a chance to get some answers 481 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,160 from two people directly involved in it. 482 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,980 Do I have to be careful how I talk to them? 483 00:42:27,980 --> 00:42:31,520 You know, you can be open to them because they knows me. 484 00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:33,240 Yeah, they knows me. 485 00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:34,580 They won't do anything to you. 486 00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:38,260 Are you Mileven? 487 00:42:38,660 --> 00:42:40,000 I'm Mileven. 488 00:42:40,220 --> 00:42:41,040 Yeah, nice to meet you. 489 00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:41,580 How's it going? 490 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,380 So, what are you saying, my friend? 491 00:42:44,460 --> 00:42:44,940 Are you OK? 492 00:42:45,140 --> 00:42:45,480 Yes. 493 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:46,380 And me too. 494 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,060 So, I understand you guys, 495 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,540 you said you just told me you've been a criminal. 496 00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:52,180 Is that right? 497 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:53,200 No, exactly. 498 00:42:53,340 --> 00:42:54,000 I'm a criminal. 499 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:54,860 You are now? 500 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:55,920 Even now. 501 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:56,600 And you too? 502 00:42:56,720 --> 00:42:57,040 Yes. 503 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:58,440 What kind of crimes? 504 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:00,600 Exactly hijack. 505 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:01,800 Hijacking cars? 506 00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:02,180 Yes. 507 00:43:02,620 --> 00:43:03,080 You too? 508 00:43:03,340 --> 00:43:03,680 Yes. 509 00:43:03,860 --> 00:43:04,480 Using guns? 510 00:43:04,940 --> 00:43:06,260 Of course, I've got it. 511 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,000 You've got a gun there now? 512 00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:08,380 Yes. 513 00:43:09,180 --> 00:43:10,840 You've both been in prison, is that right? 514 00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:12,220 Yeah, exactly. 515 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,180 I've got two months outside now. 516 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:15,460 You've been out for two months? 517 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:17,940 Now I have two months outside. 518 00:43:18,580 --> 00:43:21,500 Almost inside, about ten years. 519 00:43:22,020 --> 00:43:23,200 You were inside for ten years? 520 00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:23,480 Yes. 521 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:24,040 For what? 522 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:25,300 Two guys dead. 523 00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:27,220 Traffic cop. 524 00:43:28,220 --> 00:43:30,660 You're saying that you shot and killed the traffic cop? 525 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,000 2008, I killed two. 526 00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:35,140 Then I go inside. 527 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,620 98, I killed one. 528 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:38,820 I go out. 529 00:43:39,660 --> 00:43:40,880 I come back. 530 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:41,900 I get done. 531 00:43:43,060 --> 00:43:44,860 For what reason did you kill the cops? 532 00:43:45,740 --> 00:43:48,260 We want guns to make money. 533 00:43:48,260 --> 00:43:50,040 To take their guns. 534 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:50,980 To make money. 535 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,220 To take their guns. 536 00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:52,800 That's it. 537 00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:53,480 Just that. 538 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:55,520 When you've got money, you've got money. 539 00:43:55,740 --> 00:43:58,440 Because when you try to make some roper, they chase us. 540 00:43:58,720 --> 00:43:59,880 So what you're going to do? 541 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:00,580 You have to shoot. 542 00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,940 You don't feel any remorse about that? 543 00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:06,200 I don't feel even ashamed when I do that. 544 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:06,780 Why? 545 00:44:06,780 --> 00:44:11,220 Because if I do that job and I will die for that job. 546 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:12,200 What job? 547 00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:13,460 To rob. 548 00:44:13,460 --> 00:44:17,000 Civil killer or whatever, as long as it's a crime. 549 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:18,200 I do crime. 550 00:44:18,980 --> 00:44:21,580 All most of my life, I like crime. 551 00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:22,740 Why? 552 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,440 I never go to school, so what can I do? 553 00:44:25,820 --> 00:44:27,120 What do you think, Sidney? 554 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,480 You know, I bought malevolent. 555 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,300 No, you know, he's from a poor family. 556 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:37,760 And even his brothers, they were doing, he learned from his brothers. 557 00:44:38,140 --> 00:44:39,200 What about his parents? 558 00:44:39,380 --> 00:44:41,000 Didn't they look after him? 559 00:44:41,180 --> 00:44:43,320 No, his mother passed away a long time. 560 00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:44,560 You know what? 561 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,280 My mother passed away and my father. 562 00:44:46,540 --> 00:44:49,660 There was a guy who called him Makush. 563 00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:52,000 That guy, he was my brother. 564 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,900 He was a brother of my brother in Sydney. 565 00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:58,620 That guy, he killed a corpse. 566 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,500 Then the corpse, he came to my home. 567 00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:03,740 He killed my father and my mother. 568 00:45:04,060 --> 00:45:05,100 He want my brother. 569 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,300 He's not a corpse, the soldier. 570 00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:11,940 He killed my father and my mother to get my brother. 571 00:45:12,060 --> 00:45:12,900 Is that true, Sidney? 572 00:45:13,020 --> 00:45:13,580 Yeah, that's true. 573 00:45:13,620 --> 00:45:15,400 I grew up with them, but they were... 574 00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,460 Some criminal came in and killed his father, mother and sister. 575 00:45:18,460 --> 00:45:19,620 Yeah, because of his brother. 576 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:20,200 The soldiers. 577 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:25,240 His brother used to work like this with that criminal. 578 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:26,760 Did the guy get caught? 579 00:45:27,460 --> 00:45:28,560 No, they killed him. 580 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:29,660 The mob killed him. 581 00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:30,500 A mob killed him? 582 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:31,280 Yeah, the mob killed him. 583 00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:32,200 I was there as well. 584 00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:33,680 Not to say I was a criminal. 585 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:34,820 I grew up with them. 586 00:45:35,180 --> 00:45:37,120 We are from the very same area. 587 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:38,180 Yeah. 588 00:45:38,620 --> 00:45:40,380 The time they killed Makush, I was there. 589 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,940 We take many ties for track. 590 00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:44,340 He put him inside. 591 00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:46,060 Then he took a petrol. 592 00:45:46,580 --> 00:45:47,060 He... 593 00:45:47,060 --> 00:45:49,720 He make him like that. 594 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,260 What was the last thing you did, you two? 595 00:45:52,780 --> 00:45:54,940 We took four cars last night. 596 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:55,520 Last night? 597 00:45:55,620 --> 00:45:55,720 Where? 598 00:45:56,300 --> 00:45:57,380 In Benoni. 599 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:58,460 In Benoni? 600 00:45:58,580 --> 00:46:00,620 Yes, we're waiting for a buyer now. 601 00:46:01,740 --> 00:46:02,180 You're looking... 602 00:46:02,180 --> 00:46:02,920 You're waiting for a buyer. 603 00:46:02,980 --> 00:46:03,340 Maybe... 604 00:46:03,340 --> 00:46:04,080 How did you get them? 605 00:46:04,180 --> 00:46:05,780 We take it with a gun. 606 00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:06,920 What can we do? 607 00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,120 Only money that I want. 608 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:10,660 And to hurt people? 609 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:12,500 Yeah, the people. 610 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,200 I will show you with your last bond. 611 00:46:14,380 --> 00:46:17,380 If you don't want to give me a man, I will show you with your last bond. 612 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:18,520 Took him to shower. 613 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,200 Or to the hot shower. 614 00:46:21,860 --> 00:46:24,120 I like to show you there I want money. 615 00:46:24,380 --> 00:46:26,540 Or to the oven, micro oven. 616 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,860 I put him like this to the oven. 617 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,020 Then you see I want money. 618 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:37,160 If I've got a child there, are you saying you would hurt the child to find out the information? 619 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,900 I took the child, I put it in oven. 620 00:46:39,180 --> 00:46:40,460 I make oven on. 621 00:46:40,980 --> 00:46:42,260 You want to give us? 622 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,380 You never give me? 623 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:46,780 You never give me? 624 00:46:47,140 --> 00:46:48,140 Oh, I took your wife. 625 00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:49,880 I put it... 626 00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:51,320 I take your wife. 627 00:46:51,660 --> 00:46:53,420 I put a knife here. 628 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:55,540 Like, example. 629 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,140 You see the blood. 630 00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,340 I say, I finish up now. 631 00:47:00,020 --> 00:47:01,940 You don't give me money or you give me. 632 00:47:02,220 --> 00:47:03,060 What can you say? 633 00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:06,680 You will give me. 634 00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:08,260 No other way. 635 00:47:08,260 --> 00:47:08,320 No other way. 636 00:47:10,660 --> 00:47:11,760 Is he serious? 637 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:12,840 I can't tell him if he... 638 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:13,940 When he's joking. 639 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:15,340 They're cruel. 640 00:47:16,140 --> 00:47:17,020 You know, they're cruel. 641 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,000 Last week's paper. 642 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,640 I don't remember what page. 643 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,480 His face, Malevins' face was there. 644 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:25,620 They are wanted. 645 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,700 His face was on the paper. 646 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:32,180 But they don't care. 647 00:47:32,180 --> 00:47:36,140 They feel for call, even to kill somebody. 648 00:47:44,780 --> 00:47:48,500 Malevins' crimes seemed almost unbelievable in their viciousness. 649 00:47:49,180 --> 00:47:54,560 A childhood of violence and utter despair had instilled in him a kind of sadism and a willingness 650 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:58,860 to do harm that was, in turn, creating more fear and more victims. 651 00:48:11,380 --> 00:48:13,060 I was back with red ants. 652 00:48:13,460 --> 00:48:19,520 With a 300-strong force, they were retaking a hijacked building in an industrial area not 653 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:20,520 far from hill-brow. 654 00:48:39,660 --> 00:48:43,900 They'd evicted the same building a couple of years before amid scenes of heavy fighting, 655 00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:46,700 only to have it taken back by criminals. 656 00:48:48,460 --> 00:48:50,980 But on this day, they encountered no resistance. 657 00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,000 Do you speak English? 658 00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:56,760 Yeah. 659 00:48:57,500 --> 00:48:58,840 Do you understand what's happening today? 660 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:00,840 Yes, I do understand what's happening today. 661 00:49:00,980 --> 00:49:01,480 What is it? 662 00:49:01,740 --> 00:49:02,500 What's happening today? 663 00:49:02,580 --> 00:49:05,460 We're going out of the flat and we're not paying rent. 664 00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:06,200 We're not paying anything. 665 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:07,220 We're just sitting in the flat. 666 00:49:07,220 --> 00:49:08,100 Yes, so there is. 667 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,280 They've already warned us early in the morning, but... 668 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:12,240 They warned you this morning? 669 00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:14,300 They warned us this morning at about 7 o'clock. 670 00:49:14,540 --> 00:49:14,920 Did they? 671 00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:15,600 Did they, yes. 672 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,020 That they were going to come to evict you? 673 00:49:17,580 --> 00:49:20,660 No, they didn't explain that they are going to come and evict us. 674 00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:22,320 They only said that it's a warning. 675 00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:24,040 After a week, we're supposed to be out. 676 00:49:24,340 --> 00:49:25,580 They said that this morning? 677 00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:26,480 This morning. 678 00:49:26,580 --> 00:49:27,420 They said after a week. 679 00:49:27,660 --> 00:49:29,960 So I think it may be supposed to be next week. 680 00:49:30,700 --> 00:49:31,860 Have you liked living here? 681 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:33,200 Too much. 682 00:49:33,260 --> 00:49:34,260 It was a very nice place. 683 00:49:34,500 --> 00:49:34,840 Was it? 684 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:35,440 Too much. 685 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:36,600 It was a very nice place. 686 00:49:37,220 --> 00:49:44,040 There was a sense of futility hanging over the entire enterprise. 687 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:51,620 Those people charged with protecting residents and providing services face a seemingly impossible 688 00:49:51,620 --> 00:49:57,220 challenge, with millions of the jobless and the homeless from all over Africa seeking 689 00:49:57,220 --> 00:49:58,260 refuge here. 690 00:50:01,460 --> 00:50:05,460 I'm telling you, that security is not strong enough. 691 00:50:05,700 --> 00:50:06,280 You think so? 692 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:06,660 Yeah. 693 00:50:07,660 --> 00:50:08,980 It's not strong enough. 694 00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:11,520 You think they'll take the building back? 695 00:50:11,740 --> 00:50:12,560 I'm telling you. 696 00:50:13,100 --> 00:50:13,820 They will? 697 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:14,460 They will. 698 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:16,420 They will. 699 00:50:16,420 --> 00:50:40,360 I was out for one last patrol with bad boys, our day starting with a visit to the spot 700 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:42,880 where one of their colleagues had recently been killed. 701 00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:58,660 The murderer had himself later been killed, and there were rumours of bad boys' involvement. 702 00:50:58,660 --> 00:50:59,660 He was lying here. 703 00:50:59,660 --> 00:51:00,160 He was lying here. 704 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:01,760 And you got the guy who did it? 705 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:02,160 Yeah. 706 00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:03,620 He got shot also. 707 00:51:03,980 --> 00:51:06,380 Didn't bad boys kind of deal with him? 708 00:51:06,980 --> 00:51:07,360 No. 709 00:51:07,580 --> 00:51:07,820 No. 710 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:08,820 No. 711 00:51:08,940 --> 00:51:10,280 Bad boys didn't do anything. 712 00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,740 Why are you smiling, Lionel? 713 00:51:13,740 --> 00:51:14,740 No. 714 00:51:14,740 --> 00:51:15,740 No. 715 00:51:15,740 --> 00:51:16,740 No. 716 00:51:16,740 --> 00:51:17,740 No. 717 00:51:17,740 --> 00:51:18,740 No. 718 00:51:18,740 --> 00:51:19,740 No. 719 00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:20,740 No. 720 00:51:20,740 --> 00:51:21,740 No. 721 00:51:21,740 --> 00:51:22,740 No. 722 00:51:22,740 --> 00:51:23,740 No. 723 00:51:23,740 --> 00:51:24,740 No. 724 00:51:24,740 --> 00:51:25,740 No. 725 00:51:25,740 --> 00:51:26,740 No. 726 00:51:26,740 --> 00:51:27,740 No. 727 00:51:27,740 --> 00:51:28,740 No. 728 00:51:28,740 --> 00:51:29,740 No. 729 00:51:29,740 --> 00:51:30,740 No. 730 00:51:30,740 --> 00:51:35,740 In the middle of what happened to the other guy he was shot by somebody else. 731 00:51:35,740 --> 00:51:36,740 So, yeah. 732 00:51:36,740 --> 00:51:38,740 You have to say that, don't you? 733 00:51:38,740 --> 00:51:41,740 We were just concerned about one of our colleagues. 734 00:51:41,740 --> 00:51:42,740 That's it. 735 00:51:42,740 --> 00:51:47,740 Do you have to be careful how you talk about some of the things that bad boys do? 736 00:51:47,740 --> 00:51:48,740 No. 737 00:51:48,740 --> 00:51:49,740 What everything we do is within the law. 738 00:51:49,740 --> 00:51:50,740 We can't take the law in our hands. 739 00:51:50,740 --> 00:51:52,740 We have to work within the law. 740 00:51:52,740 --> 00:51:55,300 We are a security company, we are not vigilantes. 741 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:00,220 Anything else? 742 00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:06,700 A little later, and back in the high-drugs area of Hillbrow, 743 00:52:07,260 --> 00:52:10,300 we ran into the Nigerian crime boss known as the Chairman. 744 00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:12,820 You said you've got a problem? 745 00:52:13,620 --> 00:52:15,520 Yeah, I've got a problem. That's my business. 746 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,660 With your business? Yeah, my business. 747 00:52:17,660 --> 00:52:19,500 Is Lionel going to help you with the problem? 748 00:52:20,180 --> 00:52:21,380 Can Lionel help you? 749 00:52:21,380 --> 00:52:22,800 No, he used to help me before. 750 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:24,720 Has he? Lionel, you helped the Chairman? 751 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,280 Depends what the problem is. 752 00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:33,100 More than ever, I wondered about the line bad boys had to walk 753 00:52:33,100 --> 00:52:37,220 and the compromises they had to make working in such lawless areas. 754 00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:40,240 He seemed to think you were going to help him a bit. 755 00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,220 I don't know what... Why? 756 00:52:42,220 --> 00:52:44,520 I don't know what he's talking about. He's going to help him. 757 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:48,880 It depends on if he really has a problem and I can assist him. 758 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,220 Not in his business, whatever he wants to do, but if any other problem... 759 00:52:52,220 --> 00:52:53,540 Because he's a drug deed. 760 00:52:53,540 --> 00:52:54,040 Yeah. 761 00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:55,540 He's a big-time drug deed. 762 00:52:55,540 --> 00:52:57,880 And then we're all human beings, you know what I'm saying? 763 00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:58,780 We're all human beings. 764 00:52:58,780 --> 00:53:05,220 I mean, he's not, how can I say, he's not a threat to me, he's not a threat to you. 765 00:53:05,220 --> 00:53:07,140 You don't want to see him gone from the area? 766 00:53:07,260 --> 00:53:09,260 I mean, he's bringing the area down, isn't he? 767 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,380 There's millions of them doing it. 768 00:53:13,060 --> 00:53:17,260 If he goes now, there's 5,000 of the children to go in his place. 769 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:19,300 So, they're not solving the problem. 770 00:53:20,300 --> 00:53:21,240 And it's then getting rid of him. 771 00:53:22,340 --> 00:53:25,120 Every day somebody else takes his place. 772 00:53:25,660 --> 00:53:28,680 Isn't it possible that the Chairman is involved in violent crimes? 773 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:29,680 It could be possible. 774 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,440 But eventually, they're not going to be here anymore. 775 00:53:33,020 --> 00:53:34,480 Once we're taking over this building here, 776 00:53:34,860 --> 00:53:37,360 and we're going to put this whole area in zones, 777 00:53:38,100 --> 00:53:39,740 we're going to have street patrollers on the street. 778 00:53:40,340 --> 00:53:41,260 So, for the moment... 779 00:53:41,260 --> 00:53:42,480 We're going to push them somewhere else. 780 00:53:43,020 --> 00:53:46,260 So, for the moment, you'd rather have a criminal here 781 00:53:46,260 --> 00:53:47,740 who you have a relationship with 782 00:53:47,740 --> 00:53:50,520 rather than some other criminals who aren't at all cooperative. 783 00:53:50,520 --> 00:54:16,820 I don't get paid to lock up Nigerians with drug dealers. 784 00:54:16,820 --> 00:54:18,180 It's not my job description. 785 00:54:20,520 --> 00:54:25,500 Private security firms are helping to keep the peace in Johannesburg, 786 00:54:25,780 --> 00:54:26,980 but only for a fee, 787 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,180 and in part, by resorting to violence themselves. 788 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:37,080 In the poorest areas, 789 00:54:37,380 --> 00:54:40,940 the lawmakers and the lawbreakers become almost indistinguishable. 790 00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:45,060 And residents are trapped in a cycle of crime and retribution 791 00:54:45,060 --> 00:54:47,860 that makes victims of the entire community. 792 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,900 My time in Johannesburg was nearly over. 793 00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,200 But before leaving, I wanted to make one last visit to William. 794 00:54:58,220 --> 00:54:59,960 Having been cornered by an angry mob, 795 00:55:00,260 --> 00:55:01,640 then arrested by the police, 796 00:55:02,060 --> 00:55:04,180 he was now back at home on bail. 797 00:55:04,180 --> 00:55:06,680 They let you out? 798 00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:08,860 Well, I had to pay 2.5. 799 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:10,340 2.5 what? 800 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:13,520 2,500. 801 00:55:14,100 --> 00:55:14,460 Rand? 802 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:15,500 Yeah, to come out. 803 00:55:16,380 --> 00:55:18,140 What if that's about 150 pounds? 804 00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:20,440 I paid that 2.5. 805 00:55:21,060 --> 00:55:25,220 Then on the 17th, I go to court. 806 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,140 You know, you can hear it from there. 807 00:55:27,460 --> 00:55:28,720 So you've got a court date. 808 00:55:28,980 --> 00:55:30,400 What have they charged you with? 809 00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,900 No, they charged me with an assault. 810 00:55:33,260 --> 00:55:33,720 Assault? 811 00:55:34,260 --> 00:55:38,520 The guy said you assaulted him with a golf club? 812 00:55:38,740 --> 00:55:39,740 Yeah, that's what he says. 813 00:55:40,780 --> 00:55:42,460 They wanted proof to say, 814 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,480 well, the golf stick, whatever it is, 815 00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:45,640 nothing was found. 816 00:55:46,260 --> 00:55:48,220 Because when I was going to Erasmia... 817 00:55:48,220 --> 00:55:48,900 But he was beaten? 818 00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:50,580 He was nicely cooked. 819 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:52,740 But you say you didn't do it? 820 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:56,320 No, well, you can't agree on the mob like that, 821 00:55:56,620 --> 00:55:57,340 that you did it. 822 00:55:57,840 --> 00:55:58,540 But you did do it? 823 00:55:58,540 --> 00:56:00,520 Yeah, I did do it to me, give him a lesson. 824 00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,000 These are property crimes, aren't they? 825 00:56:03,060 --> 00:56:03,820 To do with money. 826 00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:04,340 Yeah. 827 00:56:04,860 --> 00:56:06,840 And that doesn't make it OK. 828 00:56:06,980 --> 00:56:08,540 What you're doing is actually worse. 829 00:56:08,740 --> 00:56:09,860 You're assaulting them physically. 830 00:56:10,100 --> 00:56:11,240 No, no, he must be assaulted. 831 00:56:11,720 --> 00:56:13,320 Then he goes and talks to the friend, 832 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:15,400 they say, there, don't play there. 833 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:16,240 You get so. 834 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:17,540 It doesn't make it right, 835 00:56:17,580 --> 00:56:18,720 even if he's done something wrong, 836 00:56:18,780 --> 00:56:19,840 which we don't really know, 837 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,560 it doesn't make it right for you to beat him up 838 00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:23,680 like that so brutally. 839 00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,000 If I were, if this was yours, 840 00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:27,960 what could you do? 841 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:31,300 Well, I would, I mean, 842 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:33,800 build higher fences, maybe, 843 00:56:33,980 --> 00:56:34,780 or call the police. 844 00:56:34,860 --> 00:56:35,940 I mean, if I could catch the guy. 845 00:56:36,020 --> 00:56:37,340 No, you go to the police. 846 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,340 The police, he gives them 20 rand or 30 rand 847 00:56:40,340 --> 00:56:41,380 around the corner. 848 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:43,040 He's back, he comes to you. 849 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:44,460 Then he takes more, 850 00:56:44,540 --> 00:56:46,560 because he knows you've got nowhere to do. 851 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,320 What are you going to do? 852 00:56:52,140 --> 00:56:54,300 Secure the property more, more, more carefully, 853 00:56:54,420 --> 00:56:55,840 build a higher fence, electrify the fence. 854 00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,820 You can build the same height as that. 855 00:56:57,980 --> 00:57:00,140 They still climb and go in. 856 00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:03,100 You're saying the system is broken, 857 00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:03,900 that there's no, 858 00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:05,260 that the courts and the police 859 00:57:05,260 --> 00:57:07,100 don't dispense justice anymore. 860 00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:08,620 I can take you to court now, 861 00:57:08,940 --> 00:57:10,220 and you have got connections. 862 00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:12,140 Tomorrow, the following day, 863 00:57:12,180 --> 00:57:12,820 I meet you there. 864 00:57:13,820 --> 00:57:14,780 So what are we going to do? 865 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:20,060 Tell me, what are we going to do after that? 866 00:57:20,060 --> 00:57:32,060 If you missed Louis in Philadelphia, 867 00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:34,180 catch up on BBC iPlayer. 868 00:57:34,700 --> 00:57:36,380 Next tonight, here on BBC Two, 869 00:57:36,540 --> 00:57:38,700 highlights of the weekend's football action 870 00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:40,300 in Match of the Day 2. 871 00:57:40,300 --> 00:58:10,280 We'll be right back.