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Fulmer sausages and purported poached secrets, a sizzling saga that left more than a little blood on the carpet.

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Tonight at 9.50 on BBC Two.

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It's the only environment where the customer's usually wrong. That's why they're here, like.

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For 1,300 men, this is the end of the road. For one man, it's just the beginning.

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We're being asked to deliver a huge change at once with.

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The country's youngest prison governor takes on the country's toughest prison.

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The place is rife with drugs.

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And the toughest jury are Inside the Walls.

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The worst emergency.

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A new series of Trouble at the Top begins with a special on Wandsworth Prison.

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Next Tuesday at 9 on BBC Two.

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Is an estate somewhere you live?

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Or something you drive?

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Is your favourite tea fish and chips?

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Or old grey?

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Is your favourite soap in a box?

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Or on the box?

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When it comes to class, are we all caught in the middle?

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The rise and sprawl of the middle classes.

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Friday at 9 on BBC Two.

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I'm a black British youth.

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I'm quite proud of that.

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Real life.

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This is my town, man.

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This is my place.

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What we aim to do is make the community we live in a better place.

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Harlsdon.

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Another life gone.

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Another teenager to be buried.

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I don't understand why.

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I was cold-blooded murder.

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Get to the heart of Harlsdon.

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Starts next Tuesday at 10 on BBC Two.

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Stepping into a little magic circle now on BBC Two, here's to the dream of a lifetime.

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To the three of us.

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To the three of us.

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How's that?

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Ménage à trois.

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Ménage à trois.

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In a little village near Henley in Oxfordshire, on the banks of the Thames, lives Britain's

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most famous magician, Paul Daniels, with his wife and former assistant, Debbie McGee.

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Now in their 60s and 40s respectively, the couple are entering a new phase in their lives

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and had allowed me to spend some time getting to know them.

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I don't want you to film at this door.

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I want you to come to the other door because this is the bit we haven't finished and we

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don't want anything there.

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Okay.

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Sorry about that.

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It's all right.

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Hello there.

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Come in, Louie.

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Shall I take my shoes off?

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No.

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Why not?

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We've got ours off.

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Yeah.

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How are you doing?

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Oh, Dan.

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He's just on the phone.

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He'll be with you in a second.

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Okay.

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I'm in bare feet.

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Look how small I am.

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I've got my high shoes on today.

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So now this becomes the lounge.

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Very nice.

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Look at this.

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This is amazing, the way this is recessed in here.

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Yeah, that was a shot to Debbie.

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She went out when she came back.

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We had no chimney.

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I had to get my whip out that night.

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I don't know whether it works.

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Oh, it works.

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Oh, crikey.

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That's quite odd, isn't it?

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What is that?

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It's a standard lamp, son.

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Look at these.

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These books look like they might be quite valuable.

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Look at that.

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Robert Udin.

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Robert Udin was the father of modern magic.

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His full name was Jean-Eugène Robert Udin.

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He lived in the last century.

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Yes.

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It's a drawing.

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Do you have that in all your books, then?

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Hmm.

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It's called a book plate.

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What about up here, Paul and Debbie?

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Well, no, all the bedrooms are currently being done.

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Oh, they're being done.

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Very good try, though.

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We've allowed you in, but we said until we finished the house,

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we weren't thinking of doing anything because we want it to be finished.

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I would like to see your bedroom.

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Is that done?

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No.

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No.

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No.

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It's got the carpet.

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We just told you it wasn't, though.

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Will you please pay attention when we talk about this thing?

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Yeah, you're a cheeky little monkey, aren't you?

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I am.

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He's trying to get us to take you up there.

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Can we not see the bedroom?

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But I'm not.

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I'll get it.

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With the bedroom off limits, it was time to get down to business

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and the biggest reason why I was here.

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With Paul now retired from the world of magic, Debbie was about to fulfil a long-cherished dream,

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setting up her own ballet company, Ballet Imaginaire, funded entirely by Paul.

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And then here on the poster, it says Debbie McGee for PDM International Presents.

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So it doesn't actually say Paul Daniels anywhere on the poster?

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No.

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Not to do with me.

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I'm just, so far, paying for it.

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Can I ask how much?

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We'll be looking at about 300 grand, I think.

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We can't make a profit on the first room.

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It's just impossible.

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So you're not doing this for financial reasons, then?

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Not yet.

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Not yet.

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What are you doing it for, then?

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I'm doing it because Debbie wanted to do it, and I think she's very good at it.

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The original impetus behind it was yours, Debbie.

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It was your dream.

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Yeah, fully with Paul's backing.

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Yeah.

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It was something he knew I wanted to do, and he just said, go ahead and do it.

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And you were with the Iranian National Ballet.

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Yes, I was, yeah.

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So did you dance for the Shah of Iran?

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I did, yes.

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What was that like?

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It was amazing.

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Was he nice?

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Oh, lovely, yeah, and his wife.

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I was there when the revolution broke out, and that's how I met Paul, well, how I auditioned

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for his show, because I came home and all the English ballet companies were full, and I

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just needed a job, so I auditioned for a modern show.

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You knew you'd be a magician's assistant?

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Well, no, when I auditioned for Paul's show, it was as a dancer.

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So for a good few years, while you were working in the magic, you've been, at the back of your

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mind, there's been this idea of doing, of going back to ballet.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And starting your own company.

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It was always my first love.

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So this must be weird for you, Paul, to get used to being, in effect, the assistant now,

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and now Debbie's the magician.

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Right, wonderful.

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Oh, I have no problems with it at all.

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This is all your stuff.

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This is what we should be looking at.

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You could be looking at this if you want to, Mr. Cameraman.

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Rehearsal schedule and things like this.

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I don't like showing people my untidy areas, but here we are.

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The rehearsal schedule.

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Yep, these are all my files.

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Look at that.

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Is this your bag as well, Debbie?

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Yes, well, you don't want to see my underwear, do you, Louie, really?

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Oh, my goodness me.

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Sorry, Paul.

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My lacy knickers.

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Well, you can see it if you want to.

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I'm sure you've seen it all before.

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Are there tricks in the ballet?

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There's a couple of magical bits.

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No, they're not tricks.

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They're not magic tricks.

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Paul just said they were tricks.

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Well, the way...

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They're magical happenings.

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Yes, they're special effects.

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They're magical happenings.

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And it's like Paul did the...

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OK, if you both want to say that, they're magical happenings.

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I got the hint.

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Paul did special effects for Andrew Lloyd Webber's Phantom,

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which is how I can expect...

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Phantom of the Opera.

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Yeah, and people didn't watch Phantom and think, oh...

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I've not seen Phantom.

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I've seen cats.

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Yeah, but you don't watch it and think, oh, that's a magic trick.

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Trick.

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You just accept it as a...

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It's a magical happening.

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Come on then, duckies.

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It was the end of our first day together, and I had a chance to reflect.

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I felt Debbie and I were getting on pretty well.

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With Paul, I thought maybe there was more work to do.

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Oh, yes.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Would you like some orange juice?

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Yes, please.

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Yes, please.

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I'll tell you what, I love it.

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It's a coffee.

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Can I give you a hand, Debbie?

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No, you're all right.

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Are you sure?

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I'm nearly there.

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The coffee's on, Louie.

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It'll wake you up in a minute.

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Breakfast is coming.

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What do you prefer, Jim?

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Oh, I've got frosties, country crisps, cornflakes, wheaty-bix and cornflakes, please?

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Yep.

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Together.

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With the premiere of Ballet Imaginaire looming, Paul and Debbie were moving up to Lincoln,

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where the final rehearsals were taking place, and he and I went on ahead in his van.

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Our first stop was to buy a copy of the Sunday Telegraph, which had a feature article about

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Debbie.

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Shall I read it out, do you?

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Yeah, if you like to, do you?

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Can you read while we're driving?

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Yeah, of course.

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Debbie McGee is pleasant, thoughtful, hospitable, forthcoming, and considering the things that

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have been written about her being a gold digger, and considering the fact that she's been

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the subject of sexually depraved photographs, the result of a computer generated...

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Oh, yeah.

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Somebody on the internet has, um, mocked up some pictures, apparently, and I keep trying

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to, um, I mean, everybody that writes me and says, I get a lot of email about it, I say,

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please, if you know the site, if you know where they're at, tell me, you know, um, because

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apparently they're really bad.

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Hi.

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Louie, how do you do?

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Not so bad.

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Our next stop was at Paul's younger brother Trevor's house to collect a prop that he'd

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made for the ballet, a magical happening of some sort.

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Stop.

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And if you take that to a bank, uh, they'll laugh at you.

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If you take it to a chemist, they'll make it up.

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Take the pill three times and see me in two weeks.

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I've seen the show.

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Yeah, that's for all the, uh, stuff you've spent.

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When we reached Lincoln, Paul and Debbie got down to work.

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Debbie was busy rehearsing with the cast of 12 dancers at the Theatre Royal.

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As artistic director and choreographer, she was clearly in her element.

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It's going to have some pizzazz.

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And so what is your function here today?

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I keep a general overall eye open.

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For some reason, I've always had an eye for detail.

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What's the delay now?

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Waiting for lighting, that's all.

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The next day, rehearsals continued, and so Paul took me to Doncaster, to a warehouse where

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he keeps his old magic props.

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Maybe we can do some tricks when we get there.

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You forgot to bring Debbie.

257
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Meaning?

258
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Oh.

259
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I'll be Debbie.

260
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She's got to get in them.

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00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:03,200
I'll be a Debbie tonight.

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What about this?

263
00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:06,260
What you got?

264
00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:06,740
What you got?

265
00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:07,300
What you got?

266
00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:10,060
Oh, I remember them, yes.

267
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:11,880
They were a good act.

268
00:11:13,140 --> 00:11:13,700
There you are.

269
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:15,760
It's quite clean inside.

270
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:17,300
But you see, if you stand in there...

271
00:11:17,300 --> 00:11:18,520
It's got a tight squeeze, isn't it?

272
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:19,500
You stand in there, you see.

273
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:21,020
Is that safe?

274
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:22,220
It's all safe, yes.

275
00:11:22,420 --> 00:11:25,580
But if you stand in it, you see, you're far too big for it.

276
00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:26,760
You see what I mean?

277
00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:28,500
You can't close the door.

278
00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:33,100
Right, I think it's coffee break time, don't you?

279
00:11:33,980 --> 00:11:35,460
Everybody say yes for coffee.

280
00:11:35,580 --> 00:11:36,260
Everybody, yes.

281
00:11:36,380 --> 00:11:36,600
OK.

282
00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:37,920
The team, the 20...

283
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,900
And how long would you have to stay in here for, like, a magic trick?

284
00:11:46,780 --> 00:11:47,180
Paul?

285
00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:52,200
It's quite nice in here.

286
00:11:52,200 --> 00:12:00,540
Well, I'm glad about that.

287
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:01,580
I'll tell you why.

288
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:03,920
All the boxes I make...

289
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:04,340
Please close it.

290
00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:05,980
Please close it.

291
00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:07,960
Why am I still in here?

292
00:12:08,420 --> 00:12:09,640
Shouldn't I be somewhere else?

293
00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:10,940
No, you're supposed to be there.

294
00:12:11,780 --> 00:12:14,160
Debbie has probably spent hours and hours in there.

295
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:15,080
Well, what they do...

296
00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,640
And then you wonder why she wants to do a ballet company.

297
00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,660
This is like a life's work in here, isn't it?

298
00:12:20,660 --> 00:12:23,280
A major part of my life, yeah.

299
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:24,800
It's all stuffed in here.

300
00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:27,120
But it's time for a new life.

301
00:12:28,020 --> 00:12:31,800
When you stopped working with the BBC, I mean, how did that come about?

302
00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,200
They had a change of policy.

303
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:39,800
Well, I mean, it's not...

304
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,360
I don't think it was anything personal.

305
00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:48,200
They just decided not to do a light entertainment show.

306
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,080
Did you feel at all hard done by?

307
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:54,140
I mean, how did they break it to you that you weren't...

308
00:12:54,140 --> 00:12:55,560
You know, your services were no longer required?

309
00:12:55,620 --> 00:12:56,800
Well, they didn't.

310
00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,240
They didn't break it to me at all.

311
00:12:59,340 --> 00:13:02,080
I found out from a dress designer at a party one time.

312
00:13:02,180 --> 00:13:03,480
Did you feel ill-used?

313
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:05,780
I don't think I felt ill-used.

314
00:13:05,780 --> 00:13:08,880
I just felt that they were extremely rude.

315
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,720
I couldn't be sure, but it was just possible that Paul and I were starting to bond a little bit.

316
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:22,220
Back in Lincoln, the world premiere of Ballet Imagineer was drawing close,

317
00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:24,140
and everything seemed to be coming together.

318
00:13:24,620 --> 00:13:28,920
But having spent more time with Paul, I wondered what Debbie felt about his involvement.

319
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:33,520
Do you worry at all that Paul might feel left out?

320
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:38,440
I did worry at first that he would, but he doesn't at all.

321
00:13:38,580 --> 00:13:42,880
He's a part of it because of me anyway, and he's actually done a lot of work for it.

322
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:48,340
And, you know, like this morning, he's off collecting the photographs and things,

323
00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,900
and he's going to make a display for the foyer here.

324
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:54,220
Yeah, but the only thing about it, but when you think about it like that,

325
00:13:54,300 --> 00:13:58,220
it's quite a come-down from being the nation's favourite magician entertainer, isn't it?

326
00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:59,140
But he isn't...

327
00:13:59,140 --> 00:14:00,080
Coming up the photographs.

328
00:14:01,020 --> 00:14:02,700
Yeah, but he wants to do it.

329
00:14:02,780 --> 00:14:06,740
He's helping me, and it really, you know, that's...

330
00:14:06,740 --> 00:14:07,420
Paul's like that.

331
00:14:07,580 --> 00:14:10,160
He's, you know, he's been famous for such a long time, Louis.

332
00:14:10,380 --> 00:14:12,620
You know, it's quite nice to have a break a little bit.

333
00:14:12,780 --> 00:14:14,480
Yes, and for you to get in the limelight.

334
00:14:14,620 --> 00:14:14,920
Hello.

335
00:14:15,620 --> 00:14:19,580
In order to get the word out about the ballet, Debbie was doing many phone interviews.

336
00:14:19,580 --> 00:14:20,560
Great, thank you.

337
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:22,560
Yep, absolutely.

338
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:24,680
A childhood dream come true.

339
00:14:25,180 --> 00:14:26,560
Sounds very sugary, doesn't it?

340
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:31,060
But, no, yeah, no, you know, ballet was my first love,

341
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,480
and I put that on the shelf for 20 years to work in television as a box jumper,

342
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,480
as they call assistants in my profession.

343
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,840
Yeah, box jumpers, jumping in and out of illusions.

344
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,340
Well, what we've always thought when you read those articles is,

345
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:47,360
well, what do they know?

346
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,800
You know, aren't we lucky that we're happy,

347
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,920
and, you know, when they write things about me being a bimbo?

348
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,960
It never used to hurt me, because I just think,

349
00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:58,080
well, they don't know what qualifications I've got.

350
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:00,080
Thanks, Peter. Bye-bye.

351
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,740
I was more in-depth than I thought it was going to be.

352
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,620
I know, he'd done his homework, hadn't he?

353
00:15:05,620 --> 00:15:06,180
He'd done his homework.

354
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:08,420
What was the question you said about something about a bimbo?

355
00:15:08,540 --> 00:15:09,460
You were saying something about a bimbo?

356
00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:13,240
Oh, no, about getting hurt about what the papers write, you know,

357
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,420
when they put things that, when Paul and I got married, you know,

358
00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:20,160
they were all writing that it would never last and things,

359
00:15:20,420 --> 00:15:23,060
and that I was a magician's assistant with no brains.

360
00:15:23,060 --> 00:15:28,720
I don't consider myself a bimbo, but I do like wearing nice, glamorous clothes.

361
00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:32,440
If I really was a bimbo, so what, anyway?

362
00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:34,840
You know?

363
00:15:35,700 --> 00:15:37,440
So, we have to walk faster.

364
00:15:37,620 --> 00:15:38,360
Why fast?

365
00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:39,880
Well, because I don't walk slowly.

366
00:15:40,740 --> 00:15:43,980
And I'm, well, I'm almost late, not, I'm on time.

367
00:15:44,060 --> 00:15:44,740
It's not far.

368
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:45,800
How are you doing?

369
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:46,180
How are you doing?

370
00:15:46,180 --> 00:15:47,380
So, this is Roger, isn't it?

371
00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:47,740
That's all right.

372
00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:48,460
This is Roger.

373
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:49,360
Roger, excellent.

374
00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:53,140
They're going to transform me now, so you have to go.

375
00:15:53,660 --> 00:15:56,120
Do we have, Debbie, what about if we just wait here,

376
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:57,260
because we don't want to obviously...

377
00:15:57,260 --> 00:15:59,460
No, you can't, Louis.

378
00:15:59,460 --> 00:16:00,180
Go on.

379
00:16:00,340 --> 00:16:01,360
No, no, no, look.

380
00:16:02,020 --> 00:16:05,180
Or we'll dye your hair blonde.

381
00:16:05,860 --> 00:16:07,300
There aren't any other customers.

382
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:08,600
They're coming in.

383
00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:08,920
Surely.

384
00:16:09,260 --> 00:16:09,540
Yes.

385
00:16:11,540 --> 00:16:12,620
Yes, this lady.

386
00:16:12,700 --> 00:16:13,840
This lady's very harassed by the show.

387
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:14,960
You're all right, though, aren't you?

388
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:15,640
You don't mind us.

389
00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:20,500
She doesn't want her friends to see her under the hairdryer,

390
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:21,540
and neither do I.

391
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,760
I'll be finished at about half past 12, won't I?

392
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:24,640
I think so, roughly, yeah.

393
00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:25,580
Half past 12?

394
00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:25,940
Yeah.

395
00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:26,660
Two hours?

396
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:27,000
Yeah.

397
00:16:27,060 --> 00:16:28,320
It's a long job.

398
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:28,600
Yeah.

399
00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:30,300
All right.

400
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:30,720
Okay.

401
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:31,420
See you later.

402
00:16:31,580 --> 00:16:32,220
Bye, guys.

403
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:32,880
Bye.

404
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,920
With two hours to kill, I went for a cup of tea

405
00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,820
and spotted Paul in the high street.

406
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:39,520
It's Paul.

407
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:50,940
There's a phone crew up the high street

408
00:16:50,940 --> 00:16:54,080
for some reason taking pictures of a cafe.

409
00:16:54,740 --> 00:16:55,480
Where are you?

410
00:16:56,980 --> 00:16:57,340
Paul.

411
00:16:57,600 --> 00:16:57,880
Hello?

412
00:16:57,980 --> 00:16:58,420
Where are you?

413
00:16:59,420 --> 00:16:59,780
Hello?

414
00:16:59,780 --> 00:17:04,480
Welcome to Lincoln, the twilight zone.

415
00:17:04,740 --> 00:17:05,760
Phones do not work.

416
00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:06,520
Me, not the camera.

417
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:07,380
Oh, there you are.

418
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:08,660
Yes, here's Debbie again.

419
00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:11,400
Hello?

420
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:12,540
She's getting her hair done.

421
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,780
I'm in the hairdressers.

422
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,340
She's in the hairdressers.

423
00:17:16,460 --> 00:17:18,080
Oh, lordy, lordy, lordy.

424
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:19,120
I'm going to buy a pair of shoes.

425
00:17:19,140 --> 00:17:19,940
How are you doing, Debbie?

426
00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:21,560
I'm fine, thank you.

427
00:17:21,620 --> 00:17:23,020
Oh, you've got Louis with me, haven't you?

428
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:23,600
Yes.

429
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:24,000
Yes.

430
00:17:24,420 --> 00:17:25,860
Yes, life is not perfect.

431
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:26,760
Louis.

432
00:17:26,820 --> 00:17:27,520
Oh, don't say that,

433
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:28,280
because I know you don't mean it,

434
00:17:28,300 --> 00:17:29,200
but it's still hurtful.

435
00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:33,380
Are you going here shopping?

436
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:34,600
I'm going to buy a pair of shoes,

437
00:17:34,660 --> 00:17:35,180
because I forgot them.

438
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:35,660
Bye.

439
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:36,320
Okay, bye.

440
00:17:36,580 --> 00:17:37,500
See you later, Debbie.

441
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:38,100
Oh.

442
00:17:38,260 --> 00:17:38,860
I don't.

443
00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:40,880
You don't hang around, do you?

444
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:41,840
No, no, no, no.

445
00:17:42,540 --> 00:17:47,280
Can you see us?

446
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:48,640
Can we come in?

447
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:49,820
Of course, yeah.

448
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,860
You do take a lot of pride in your appearance, don't you?

449
00:17:58,900 --> 00:17:59,520
I do, yes.

450
00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:00,200
And it shows.

451
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:00,820
Thank you.

452
00:18:01,220 --> 00:18:03,580
Do you think Paul takes a lot of care in his appearance?

453
00:18:04,180 --> 00:18:05,580
He's a very clean person.

454
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:06,420
He's always showering.

455
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,160
Hygiene, yeah.

456
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:07,880
But what about clothes?

457
00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:11,800
But he's much more interested in other things in life.

458
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,160
Because he's got quite a funny fashion sense in some ways.

459
00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:16,140
Well, he likes colourful things.

460
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:16,940
He does, doesn't he?

461
00:18:16,940 --> 00:18:17,100
Yeah.

462
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,820
He's not sort of, you know, dowdy,

463
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,800
but he's not interested in men's fashion at all.

464
00:18:24,260 --> 00:18:26,200
And when he, in that Telegraph article,

465
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:29,000
it said that you convinced him to abandon the wig.

466
00:18:29,360 --> 00:18:30,120
Is that true?

467
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,760
Well, I always said, I thought he looked better without it.

468
00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:34,220
Did you?

469
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:34,540
Yeah.

470
00:18:34,940 --> 00:18:36,160
And would he wear it in bed?

471
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:37,380
Oh, no, no, no, no.

472
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,320
Maybe he did before he met me, I don't know.

473
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,080
Oh, I have to ask him that one.

474
00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,000
That's a good one, isn't it, Louie?

475
00:18:46,060 --> 00:18:47,200
That's made us all laugh.

476
00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:49,720
No, and do you know what?

477
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:50,680
You've got to ask her, because then,

478
00:18:50,740 --> 00:18:51,920
so he would be like, he would be like,

479
00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:53,860
goodnight, Debbie, let's brush our teeth,

480
00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:56,080
I'll take my wig off, and then...

481
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:57,780
It'd be quite funny, wouldn't it?

482
00:18:58,220 --> 00:19:00,600
No, do you know what we use his old wigs for now?

483
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,800
Do you know what they're really good for?

484
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:03,060
Cleaning the car.

485
00:19:03,340 --> 00:19:04,220
No, no.

486
00:19:04,740 --> 00:19:05,920
Keeping the teapot warm.

487
00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:06,600
Oh, I see.

488
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:07,380
No, not really.

489
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,340
That's a Debbie joke.

490
00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:10,240
That's a Debbie joke.

491
00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:12,860
This is really nice.

492
00:19:12,860 --> 00:19:13,300
Hello, hello.

493
00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:14,540
Therode is the presenter.

494
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:15,200
Yes.

495
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:15,660
Well done.

496
00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:17,020
Chris, you own the theatre.

497
00:19:17,180 --> 00:19:17,600
I'm afraid so.

498
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,820
And you donated two weeks of the theatre.

499
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,380
Yeah, three weeks.

500
00:19:21,420 --> 00:19:22,840
Three weeks of the theatre space, just for me.

501
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,160
Well, I haven't told Debbie what she's got to do for it yet,

502
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:26,960
but, you know, we're negotiating.

503
00:19:27,100 --> 00:19:27,720
We are.

504
00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:29,360
And how are the...

505
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:30,060
Oh, my God, is it?

506
00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:30,780
That's one.

507
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,580
Yes, yes, we're trying this out.

508
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,440
It's not finished off or anything.

509
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:35,500
How are ticket sales?

510
00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:36,260
We're sold out here.

511
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:36,640
Every night?

512
00:19:37,060 --> 00:19:38,640
Every night, three nights, we're sold out.

513
00:19:40,260 --> 00:19:41,420
Can't be better than that, can you?

514
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:41,820
Excellent.

515
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:42,400
Congratulations.

516
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:44,560
I could kiss everybody.

517
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:48,640
I think it's great that they've sold out with a new company.

518
00:19:48,820 --> 00:19:49,760
Yeah, and it's fabulous.

519
00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:51,660
Oh, here it comes again.

520
00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,460
It hasn't got its feathers on or anything,

521
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,740
but we're still not sure about it.

522
00:20:02,740 --> 00:20:03,660
We'll do that.

523
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,420
If ever that falls over, you're in major stock.

524
00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:17,520
David, could you do that again?

525
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,020
And I'd just like to look at it from out front.

526
00:20:20,020 --> 00:20:21,140
How is that actually moving?

527
00:20:22,820 --> 00:20:24,420
We have a swan pack.

528
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,400
Oh, no, we don't look at things like that.

529
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,740
We don't film things like that, thank you.

530
00:20:30,140 --> 00:20:32,220
Because that takes away the magic for the people.

531
00:20:32,220 --> 00:20:32,840
Oh, don't be ridiculous.

532
00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:33,460
It does.

533
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,560
People don't want to know how it works.

534
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:35,660
They do.

535
00:20:35,860 --> 00:20:36,700
They don't.

536
00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:38,240
It doesn't take away the magic.

537
00:20:38,780 --> 00:20:40,120
No one thinks that's a real swan.

538
00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:45,280
No, it's just, well, different people have different ways of doing it.

539
00:20:45,380 --> 00:20:49,620
And if someone wants to know how we do it, they have to pay us for our method.

540
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:50,640
Really?

541
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,100
Is that like a privileged technique?

542
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:52,900
Yeah, absolutely.

543
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,360
So, therefore, you don't give things like that away.

544
00:20:57,580 --> 00:20:59,000
We would show that then, but we could show this.

545
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,560
We could show him, but you don't, yeah, if you don't show little things like that.

546
00:21:04,820 --> 00:21:06,000
So, please, don't you?

547
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:07,300
Please?

548
00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:11,040
Especially as Paul's not here.

549
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:13,320
If he comes back and says it's all right, it's okay.

550
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,840
Okay, but otherwise, no.

551
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:19,960
Is that one of Paul's designs?

552
00:21:20,820 --> 00:21:21,020
Yeah.

553
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,160
Yeah, he's made it even, I think, or his brother or something.

554
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:26,200
Right.

555
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,800
I'm going to go and check some other things, so I shall see everybody later.

556
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:30,380
Thank you.

557
00:21:33,060 --> 00:21:34,440
I hope it works for her.

558
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,920
I mean, it's a hell of an undertaking.

559
00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:38,940
They spend a lot of money to do this.

560
00:21:38,980 --> 00:21:40,120
A very brave move.

561
00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:45,940
Anyone who goes into production and producing now is normally very foolish,

562
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,480
but at the least, very, very brave.

563
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:49,100
Why?

564
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:49,920
Why?

565
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,560
Because 95% of shows that open lose money.

566
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,100
And what do you think of the, uh, the swan?

567
00:21:59,780 --> 00:22:00,920
The mechanical swan?

568
00:22:02,180 --> 00:22:06,360
Um, personally, I wouldn't use it, is my opinion.

569
00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:07,940
I thought it was looking all right.

570
00:22:07,940 --> 00:22:10,620
So we could drop it in so you don't spill any lights on it.

571
00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:11,000
The swan.

572
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:11,860
Do you want to say that again?

573
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:12,920
It was looking all right.

574
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:14,120
Now say it without the smile.

575
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:15,200
It might be above the light.

576
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:15,640
You won't.

577
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,900
I think it's a great swan.

578
00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:22,780
It's a big day.

579
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,280
Ballet Imagineers' first night, and the crew were in early getting everything in place.

580
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:38,740
There were still some last-minute problems to sort out,

581
00:22:38,860 --> 00:22:43,020
and with Paul and I starting to get on better, I saw a chance to be involved in the production.

582
00:22:43,660 --> 00:22:46,540
Would it be okay if I pulled the swan tonight?

583
00:22:46,540 --> 00:22:48,800
It would not be okay.

584
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:50,220
Ask me why.

585
00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:50,620
Why?

586
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:55,720
You have a devious and distorted sense of humour.

587
00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,440
You know, though, that if you entrusted that to me, I would be a model of efficiency and decorum.

588
00:23:01,940 --> 00:23:03,560
I don't know that.

589
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:09,640
I would expect it, but then you might want to create the unexpected.

590
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,380
You're not in charge anyway, Debbie is.

591
00:23:11,380 --> 00:23:15,520
This is wonderfully true.

592
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:16,420
It's great.

593
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:18,060
Tell me if you think this is a bad idea.

594
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,100
I suggested to Paul that maybe I could work the swan this evening.

595
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,000
That's entirely up to you.

596
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:25,540
It wasn't there.

597
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,120
You were on the fence about it, weren't you, Paul?

598
00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:28,600
Not on the opening night.

599
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,120
What's that, Chief?

600
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:30,440
About me working the swan.

601
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:31,600
Not on the opening night.

602
00:23:31,620 --> 00:23:32,320
Not opening night.

603
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:33,520
Not on any night.

604
00:23:33,660 --> 00:23:34,900
Maybe later in the run.

605
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:36,700
Not on any night.

606
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,680
I've been getting all these beautiful flowers.

607
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,100
Oh, look, aren't those nice?

608
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,140
I like this one.

609
00:23:41,380 --> 00:23:43,940
And then I've got all these good luck cards.

610
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:46,900
Would you like a tea or a coffee, Debbie?

611
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:48,640
I'd love a cup of tea.

612
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,520
With all the first-night preparation seemingly in hand, Debbie took a break to write good luck cards to the dancers.

613
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,140
My husband's a real chatterbox, isn't he?

614
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,340
I hear him now.

615
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,180
Yes, he does go on a bit.

616
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,060
Well, I mean, it's nice.

617
00:24:04,620 --> 00:24:05,980
But he likes to talk.

618
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:06,960
What?

619
00:24:07,260 --> 00:24:08,880
What are you doing up there lurking?

620
00:24:09,060 --> 00:24:10,620
Waiting for my cup of tea.

621
00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:11,900
Debbie, do you know Paul?

622
00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:13,480
Can I say this, Paul?

623
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,180
The thing about what Debbie reminded you of when you first met her?

624
00:24:17,180 --> 00:24:18,340
She knows already.

625
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,100
Does she?

626
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:19,500
Yeah.

627
00:24:20,140 --> 00:24:25,940
The little mannequin that separated the paragraphs in the pencouse up there.

628
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:26,800
What do you think?

629
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,400
I thought it was funny.

630
00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:31,260
I'd never seen it, so I couldn't really form an opinion.

631
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:33,060
Very attractive.

632
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:33,680
No, I know.

633
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:40,660
And the oddity, it is an oddity in this day and age of who cares, is that Debbie's still the same shape.

634
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:42,140
She's fabulous.

635
00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:44,780
You do have a great figure, Debbie.

636
00:24:45,020 --> 00:24:45,140
Thank you.

637
00:24:45,140 --> 00:24:47,880
And presumably that's partly not having had children.

638
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:48,920
Did he?

639
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,920
No, I think it's looking...

640
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,020
People say that, but look at Jane Seymour and how many children she's had, and she's older than me.

641
00:24:57,260 --> 00:24:58,680
She's got an amazing figure.

642
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:00,120
Was there...

643
00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,980
Did you ever want to have kids, Debbie, or...?

644
00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:03,620
No, never.

645
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:04,540
Do you know why?

646
00:25:05,740 --> 00:25:06,820
No, I don't.

647
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,940
I just never, ever have.

648
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,520
I didn't play with dolls when I was little.

649
00:25:09,580 --> 00:25:10,360
I read books.

650
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:12,640
My sister played with all the dolls.

651
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:16,320
There hasn't ever been a moment where I've thought, oh, yeah, I think I should have one.

652
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:17,600
Or maybe should I?

653
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,100
I've never even questioned it.

654
00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:19,400
It's just...

655
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:20,560
I've just worked out what this thing is.

656
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:21,720
I keep sticking up my nose.

657
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:23,600
I think it's a mic cover.

658
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:25,940
Do you want milk, Paul?

659
00:25:26,180 --> 00:25:27,580
Milk and sugar, please.

660
00:25:27,940 --> 00:25:32,360
Is there a slight fear for you that actually Debbie will become too beloved of the public,

661
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:33,440
too successful?

662
00:25:34,060 --> 00:25:41,960
I am well aware that the world of show business is a very transient thing.

663
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:43,320
It just comes and it goes.

664
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,780
Debbie's going into a kind of a...

665
00:25:45,780 --> 00:25:47,060
her prime, really.

666
00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:47,480
Yeah.

667
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:48,140
Aren't you, Debbie?

668
00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:48,620
I hope.

669
00:25:48,620 --> 00:25:49,300
I suppose so.

670
00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:51,420
Yeah, it does feel that way, I have to say.

671
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:53,600
Yeah, it's exciting.

672
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:54,440
So what?

673
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:56,920
I mean, that's quite a lot of pressure on the relationship.

674
00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,520
In a way, there's a bit of pressure on it.

675
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:00,680
No, it's not a lot of pressure.

676
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,340
I think it depends on the people.

677
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:10,360
The thing is with Paul that he has an unbelievable talent, which I have always known that I haven't

678
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:10,740
got.

679
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,040
I haven't got that extra something he's got.

680
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:23,520
And people who become stars, like Bruce Forsyth, Jimmy Tarbuck, Paul, have something extra, which

681
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,820
other performers don't have.

682
00:26:26,460 --> 00:26:31,000
Paul and Debbie were throwing a pre-first night party for theatre managers, friends and

683
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:35,920
family, including Debbie's mum, Babs, her dad, Pat, and her sister, Donna.

684
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,600
Five minutes later, ladies and gentlemen, to your family call, thank you.

685
00:26:39,100 --> 00:26:39,900
Enjoy it, girls.

686
00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:45,460
And then it was showtime.

687
00:26:46,580 --> 00:26:50,080
I'd never seen any ballet before, so I didn't really know what to expect.

688
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,420
The show was in three parts, two of them classical and one of them brand new.

689
00:26:54,420 --> 00:26:58,300
The classical sections were extracts from Swan Lake and Coppelia.

690
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,820
I couldn't follow all the action, but the dancers seemed to be doing an excellent job.

691
00:27:02,820 --> 00:27:11,360
The third part was called The Artist's Dream, with a story by Paul and choreography by Debbie.

692
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,800
I thought it was the most interesting part.

693
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:19,200
It had a distinctly West End musical feel to it, and was about an artist who falls asleep

694
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,460
and is visited by a dream maker, who brings the painting to life.

695
00:27:24,340 --> 00:27:28,800
It also used the magical happening designed by Paul, built by his brother Trevor.

696
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:36,700
It had been a really good show, and the audience loved it.

697
00:27:52,140 --> 00:27:53,580
Well done, everybody.

698
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:55,760
Whoa!

699
00:27:56,220 --> 00:27:58,160
There's people out there from New York that are saying,

700
00:27:58,420 --> 00:27:59,920
I've never seen anything like this.

701
00:28:00,140 --> 00:28:01,940
They loved you, they loved you.

702
00:28:01,940 --> 00:28:03,180
Yeah, hoo-hoo-hoo!

703
00:28:03,460 --> 00:28:04,920
That was so good!

704
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:05,980
Whoa!

705
00:28:06,340 --> 00:28:08,000
I might take this dancing off.

706
00:28:08,140 --> 00:28:09,040
Um, I don't know.

707
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:12,300
Will you marry me again?

708
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,120
Yes, I will.

709
00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:13,440
Okay.

710
00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:17,380
Thank you, darling.

711
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:17,880
Wow.

712
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:18,840
Wow.

713
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,880
Debbie, sorry to interrupt.

714
00:28:21,380 --> 00:28:24,760
Small token of congratulations and felicitations.

715
00:28:25,060 --> 00:28:27,260
Lewis, excuse me, have we got a straw?

716
00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:30,060
Thank you.

717
00:28:30,060 --> 00:28:32,040
You've been so wonderful.

718
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:32,440
Well done.

719
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:33,360
Thank you.

720
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:33,860
Thank you very much.

721
00:28:33,860 --> 00:28:35,520
I'm trying to get into your bedroom, Debbie.

722
00:28:37,140 --> 00:28:39,860
He's been trying for three weeks to get into your bedroom.

723
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:41,440
But you're always there, darling.

724
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:42,000
I know.

725
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,000
A little old party poop for me.

726
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:48,720
And two matches.

727
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,440
You go one, two, three.

728
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:52,360
Oh, God.

729
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,140
Was Paul joking about me trying to get in the bedroom?

730
00:28:55,660 --> 00:28:56,320
He was joking.

731
00:28:57,180 --> 00:29:00,040
You still haven't quite got to grips with his sense of humor.

732
00:29:00,220 --> 00:29:02,740
Well, no, because it's, you know, there's no such thing as a joke.

733
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:03,560
Have you ever heard that expression?

734
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,280
I think he's genuinely, like, he doesn't want us in there, does he?

735
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,980
I think he's worried that you fancy me and I fancy you.

736
00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:10,200
Do you think that's what it is, Louis?

737
00:29:10,820 --> 00:29:12,520
Well, the chemistry can't be denied.

738
00:29:12,740 --> 00:29:13,900
Do we think this is true?

739
00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:21,360
Here's to...

740
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:21,860
Chin, chin.

741
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:24,420
Paul and Debbie and Ballet-A-Majon-Air.

742
00:29:24,540 --> 00:29:24,900
Yay!

743
00:29:26,860 --> 00:29:29,700
Ballet-A-Majon-Air's first night had been a success.

744
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,340
And back at our hotel, I thought that might warrant

745
00:29:32,340 --> 00:29:35,720
a late-night celebratory drink in Paul and Debbie's room.

746
00:29:35,740 --> 00:29:36,900
No, do you remember the books?

747
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:37,340
Paul and Debbie.

748
00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:38,160
You never see the bedroom.

749
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,060
We can never see the bedroom.

750
00:29:40,060 --> 00:29:41,300
I'm doing it.

751
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:45,620
That was a joke, right?

752
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:48,120
Nope.

753
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,540
The following morning, and the dancers and Paul and Debbie

754
00:29:59,540 --> 00:30:02,700
left to begin touring the country with the Ballet-A-Majon-Air show.

755
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,560
My plan was to catch up with them later in the tour

756
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:06,820
to see how it was all going.

757
00:30:08,620 --> 00:30:10,620
When I next checked in, the tour had reached

758
00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:12,520
Stirling University Theatre in Scotland.

759
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,640
In the meanwhile, I'd been sorry to hear

760
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,700
that things weren't going entirely to plan.

761
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,100
Ticket sales were down, with Paul blaming the petrol crisis.

762
00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:22,640
Either way, the company was losing a lot of money.

763
00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:23,960
Are you worried at all?

764
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:25,960
I'm not worried a little.

765
00:30:26,020 --> 00:30:28,620
No, I have written off the loss immensely.

766
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:29,400
How much?

767
00:30:31,020 --> 00:30:35,440
Oh, shall we say, well in excess of £100,000, you know.

768
00:30:35,500 --> 00:30:35,620
Yeah.

769
00:30:35,620 --> 00:30:40,820
Because before you were saying, well, we're going to not quite break even?

770
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,840
I thought maybe about £20,000 would go down the tube.

771
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:44,940
No, you're thinking £100,000.

772
00:30:45,140 --> 00:30:45,940
I think so, yeah.

773
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:46,960
Probably plus.

774
00:30:47,620 --> 00:30:50,620
And in addition to that, you're going to go back on the road

775
00:30:50,620 --> 00:30:52,400
touring the Paul Daniels Magic show.

776
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:59,940
This, in terms of economics, will be very useful to help to fund the ballet.

777
00:31:00,620 --> 00:31:03,560
My life is now wrapped up in the ballet and Debbie,

778
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,760
so it's not just me paying my household bills,

779
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,060
it's me keeping this product out there, you know.

780
00:31:10,460 --> 00:31:11,720
How does Debbie feel about it?

781
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,940
When this hit in, Debbie, whose initial reaction was blimey, you know.

782
00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:19,940
Well, when was it hitting things?

783
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:21,020
Well, the loss.

784
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:21,600
The loss.

785
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,780
The amount of the loss, you know.

786
00:31:24,820 --> 00:31:28,000
And the fact that theatres weren't going to be sold out every night.

787
00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:29,840
Well, we knew that quite.

788
00:31:30,100 --> 00:31:32,660
We were prepared for a loss, but not this volume.

789
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:36,500
With fewer than half the tickets sold for tonight's performance,

790
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,360
Paul and I went to the student union to drum up an audience.

791
00:31:40,060 --> 00:31:40,500
Do you want to come?

792
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:43,840
When you're finished, come into the theatre.

793
00:31:44,460 --> 00:31:46,720
Just say, Paul Daniels said we could come and watch the ballet.

794
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:47,460
Do you want to come?

795
00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:48,220
You can come.

796
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:49,700
Do you want to come and watch it?

797
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,220
We might, actually.

798
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:52,300
Well, come and watch it now.

799
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:53,660
Start in five minutes.

800
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,060
Paul, these guys are coming.

801
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:58,420
So they're not paying?

802
00:31:59,080 --> 00:31:59,260
What?

803
00:31:59,420 --> 00:31:59,960
They're not paying?

804
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:01,540
I don't want them to pay.

805
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:02,900
I don't want them to pay.

806
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:05,380
They've never been to a ballet.

807
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:06,640
I just want them to get interested.

808
00:32:07,580 --> 00:32:08,680
Next time we come, they'll pay.

809
00:32:08,780 --> 00:32:09,020
Please.

810
00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:12,620
Your friends went this way.

811
00:32:12,620 --> 00:32:20,480
The next day, Paul had been booked to appear on celebrity Ready Steady Cook,

812
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,460
and so we broke away from the tour.

813
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,260
He was now committed to coming out of retirement with a new magic show

814
00:32:26,260 --> 00:32:27,940
to help pay for Debbie's ballet,

815
00:32:27,940 --> 00:32:30,780
and the TV appearance would provide useful publicity.

816
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,060
Do you think you might do some magic on the show?

817
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:34,500
No, not at all.

818
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:34,880
No?

819
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:35,820
No.

820
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:37,560
Not at all.

821
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,500
I think you shouldn't cross that kind of boundary.

822
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,460
If they want that kind of crossover,

823
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,540
they should plan that well in advance.

824
00:32:46,620 --> 00:32:46,840
Yeah.

825
00:32:47,220 --> 00:32:50,900
Because magic should not just be a passing children's party thing.

826
00:32:50,980 --> 00:32:52,980
It should be thought through.

827
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:56,340
So you're ready for a bit of cooking?

828
00:32:56,780 --> 00:32:57,720
No, I can't cook.

829
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,180
From the moment we arrived at the TV studio,

830
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,240
I sensed Paul was out of sorts.

831
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:03,680
Who is Paul up against?

832
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:06,940
Anna Ryder Richardson from Changing Rooms.

833
00:33:06,940 --> 00:33:09,320
Anna Ryder Richardson from Changing Rooms, Paul.

834
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:10,320
There's A-list.

835
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:14,600
Doesn't know who she is.

836
00:33:14,700 --> 00:33:15,800
She's from Changing Rooms.

837
00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:16,480
Well, that's good.

838
00:33:16,740 --> 00:33:17,960
Are you going to do some tricks for us?

839
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:18,360
No.

840
00:33:18,820 --> 00:33:19,520
You did not, Fanny.

841
00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:21,560
I'm Paul Daniels.

842
00:33:21,700 --> 00:33:21,760
Hello.

843
00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:21,840
I'm Anna.

844
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:22,080
Hi.

845
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:23,400
I'll give you two.

846
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:26,960
Is it...

847
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:27,500
Hello.

848
00:33:28,060 --> 00:33:28,840
Lisa's floor manager.

849
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:30,260
This is Chris Adrick.

850
00:33:30,260 --> 00:33:30,800
Nice to meet you.

851
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:31,340
Hi, Chris.

852
00:33:33,540 --> 00:33:34,980
Just shoot me like a football.

853
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,520
OK.

854
00:33:35,940 --> 00:33:36,740
Have you seen the programme?

855
00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:37,540
Nope.

856
00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:37,920
Nope.

857
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:40,140
That's where you have to come through.

858
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:40,840
Who opens them?

859
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:42,880
Who opens them?

860
00:33:43,060 --> 00:33:45,060
There will be a man in there opening them for you.

861
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:45,400
All right.

862
00:33:45,980 --> 00:33:47,100
So you start up here.

863
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,740
Pop you in from behind.

864
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:55,640
Your bag will be in here already.

865
00:33:55,640 --> 00:34:04,460
I'm just curious as to how it works.

866
00:34:04,460 --> 00:34:08,280
Did you not find that interesting that you push one open and the book open?

867
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:08,740
No.

868
00:34:08,740 --> 00:34:09,360
Yeah.

869
00:34:09,420 --> 00:34:10,900
So it's got a pulley system in the back.

870
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,260
You're not curious at all, are you?

871
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,420
Must be counterweighted then.

872
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:19,000
Ainsley will be in the middle.

873
00:34:19,060 --> 00:34:19,780
Ainsley will be here.

874
00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:21,020
Swing round this way then.

875
00:34:21,020 --> 00:34:22,580
He'll push you through to there.

876
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,240
Leslie will be standing here, so you'll be between the two of them.

877
00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:31,560
So we'll probably, Leslie will give you the first thing that you need to do, talk you through

878
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,960
anything that she needs to tell you.

879
00:34:33,020 --> 00:34:34,940
They'll get all the pots and pans ready for what they're going to cook.

880
00:34:34,940 --> 00:34:39,520
And on that word, cook, you go and get your apron on, which is just over there.

881
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:40,460
I can't reach it.

882
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:41,960
Well, Ainsley will help you.

883
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:44,180
Oh, all right.

884
00:34:44,220 --> 00:34:44,780
Do you want to try?

885
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:45,580
No.

886
00:34:45,700 --> 00:34:45,860
No.

887
00:34:46,140 --> 00:34:48,960
And then at the end of 20 minutes, we stop cooking.

888
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:49,360
Yeah.

889
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,980
And we send you out of the studio at that point, which is when we do the both of the audience.

890
00:34:53,060 --> 00:34:53,400
Okay.

891
00:34:58,700 --> 00:34:59,560
You all right, Paul?

892
00:35:01,380 --> 00:35:02,820
Are you going to do any magic, Paul?

893
00:35:03,060 --> 00:35:04,180
Not as far as I know.

894
00:35:04,940 --> 00:35:08,760
Shall I carry on?

895
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,300
Are you spacing out, Paul?

896
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:11,700
Yeah, then we come back after that.

897
00:35:12,060 --> 00:35:15,800
After 20 minutes, we leave the studio, the audience votes, and we come back after 20 minutes

898
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:16,760
and we taste the food.

899
00:35:16,940 --> 00:35:18,620
Yes, you have taken it all in then, haven't you?

900
00:35:19,420 --> 00:35:20,580
Oh, yes, sorry, love.

901
00:35:20,740 --> 00:35:21,980
I'm terrible at that.

902
00:35:22,140 --> 00:35:25,100
Yeah, I tend to wander off, but I am listening and paying attention.

903
00:35:25,100 --> 00:35:25,820
That's brilliant.

904
00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:27,620
I do pay attention.

905
00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:28,160
That's great.

906
00:35:28,220 --> 00:35:28,480
Yes.

907
00:35:29,220 --> 00:35:32,300
I was getting the feeling that Paul didn't like this kind of show.

908
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:37,340
Back in his dressing room, I thought I'd change the mood by asking him about his autobiography.

909
00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:45,340
In your autobiography, there is quite a bit about your sexploits.

910
00:35:46,340 --> 00:35:47,540
I had a good time, yeah.

911
00:35:47,780 --> 00:35:49,380
It was a time for having a good time.

912
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:49,740
Was it?

913
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:50,360
Yeah.

914
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:51,560
70s, 80s?

915
00:35:52,060 --> 00:35:53,160
Or 70s, was it?

916
00:35:53,580 --> 00:35:55,020
Yeah, it would be, I guess.

917
00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:58,560
And is that true about the more than 300 partners?

918
00:35:58,780 --> 00:36:00,260
Er, yeah.

919
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,720
Was that like groupies who would turn up to your show?

920
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:05,100
Sometimes.

921
00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:07,220
Yeah, sometimes.

922
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:13,580
It was just, there was a lot of sex around because the girls had discovered the pill

923
00:36:13,580 --> 00:36:16,660
and started to do everything the lads had been doing for years.

924
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:25,460
And I was on my own and travelling and so it, er, it was just the scene.

925
00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:29,240
And then suddenly along came herpes and AIDS and all that.

926
00:36:29,620 --> 00:36:30,080
And Debbie.

927
00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:32,480
Oh, yeah.

928
00:36:33,860 --> 00:36:34,420
And Debbie.

929
00:36:34,580 --> 00:36:35,940
And could you remember all the names?

930
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:40,340
Or was it like, you know, that one in the back of the Cortina?

931
00:36:40,340 --> 00:36:49,700
Oh, dear, yeah, I did have a Cortina at one time, yeah.

932
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:51,300
Oh, well, hello, Paul.

933
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,020
Bill, are you guys going to come up to the end?

934
00:36:53,020 --> 00:36:53,960
Lovely to see you again.

935
00:36:54,060 --> 00:36:54,460
Good.

936
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:55,300
Lovely.

937
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:55,980
Family well?

938
00:36:56,820 --> 00:36:58,660
Er, yes.

939
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:00,080
I'll see Debbie again.

940
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:01,560
I'll check with Louis.

941
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:02,740
When do I see Debbie again?

942
00:37:03,540 --> 00:37:04,240
Uh, Saturday.

943
00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:05,240
How do you do, Louis?

944
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:05,960
How are you doing, Louis?

945
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,620
Nice to meet you.

946
00:37:06,820 --> 00:37:08,200
Oh, we met before, haven't we, Louis?

947
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:08,840
Oh, probably.

948
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:09,860
In the corridors.

949
00:37:09,860 --> 00:37:10,320
In the corridors.

950
00:37:10,340 --> 00:37:10,920
In the corridors of power.

951
00:37:11,140 --> 00:37:12,180
Oh, yes, absolutely.

952
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,400
Drifting around.

953
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:14,820
Nice up.

954
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:15,700
Do anything.

955
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,060
He has stunned audiences all over the world with his magic

956
00:37:20,060 --> 00:37:22,480
and is sure to stun us here in the kitchen tonight.

957
00:37:22,860 --> 00:37:25,480
Ladies and gentlemen, Paul Daniels!

958
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:31,460
Oh, lovely.

959
00:37:31,820 --> 00:37:33,520
What about you going on tour around Britain?

960
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,760
Are we going to see a lot more of you sort of traveling around us?

961
00:37:35,820 --> 00:37:38,780
No, I'm checking out, um, it's called an audience with me.

962
00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:41,040
And Debbie is on the road with her ballet company,

963
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,300
which, er, I help, you know, sort of look after and manage and all that.

964
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:45,800
So, it's, yeah, we're very busy.

965
00:37:45,900 --> 00:37:46,220
Beautiful.

966
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:46,960
Thank you, darling.

967
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:47,660
That's lovely.

968
00:37:47,740 --> 00:37:48,320
Game of cards.

969
00:37:48,380 --> 00:37:49,140
Oh, yeah, all right.

970
00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:50,380
No, I don't want time for game of cards.

971
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:50,840
Go on, then.

972
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:51,780
Go on, give us a trick.

973
00:37:51,820 --> 00:37:53,100
Do you want a trick, ladies and gentlemen?

974
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:54,440
Yeah, go on, then.

975
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:55,020
Here's a good one.

976
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:55,240
Here.

977
00:37:55,740 --> 00:37:57,080
Pick a card, any card, pick a card.

978
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:57,460
There we are.

979
00:37:57,460 --> 00:37:58,460
Top one, any one, top one.

980
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:59,060
Do you like that one?

981
00:37:59,120 --> 00:37:59,280
Yeah.

982
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:00,540
Four of spades, saves time.

983
00:38:00,700 --> 00:38:00,820
Great.

984
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:01,500
One more.

985
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:10,180
One more.

986
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:11,220
I'll pay them in the middle.

987
00:38:13,140 --> 00:38:13,580
Lovely.

988
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:19,620
That's good.

989
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:20,760
Isn't that tasty?

990
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,660
That meal was delicious.

991
00:38:23,580 --> 00:38:24,880
She is one good cook.

992
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:25,780
It was good, wasn't she?

993
00:38:26,140 --> 00:38:26,480
Yeah.

994
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:27,560
You weren't helping much.

995
00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:29,560
No, well, I can't.

996
00:38:29,940 --> 00:38:32,580
I didn't know what the hell was going off up there, you know.

997
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,020
And then it rained.

998
00:38:40,580 --> 00:38:44,720
In fact, it rained so much that the Thames flooded Paul and Debbie's house.

999
00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:47,360
So, will it all be covered by the insurance?

1000
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:48,700
Oh, yes.

1001
00:38:48,700 --> 00:38:50,820
And I left yesterday.

1002
00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:52,200
How much water was in here, then?

1003
00:38:52,300 --> 00:38:53,040
About an inch.

1004
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:54,320
How does it look upstairs?

1005
00:38:55,300 --> 00:38:57,100
It looks just the same as it did before.

1006
00:38:57,100 --> 00:38:57,840
It's all right.

1007
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,000
That you didn't see before, Louis.

1008
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:02,280
Yeah, the bit you never get to see, Louis.

1009
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,240
I mean, maybe it would make sense for me to have a quick look.

1010
00:39:05,260 --> 00:39:05,480
No.

1011
00:39:08,540 --> 00:39:08,940
No.

1012
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,200
I like you.

1013
00:39:11,140 --> 00:39:11,620
Not at all.

1014
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,080
Ballet Imaginaire were playing Harlow in Essex that night,

1015
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:18,960
and I gave Paul and Debbie a lift.

1016
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,980
My feet are freezing down the bottom.

1017
00:39:21,020 --> 00:39:25,080
I thought the ballet's financial problems would put a strain on Paul and Debbie's relationship.

1018
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,320
But if so, they weren't showing it.

1019
00:39:27,460 --> 00:39:30,140
Anything you can do, I can do better.

1020
00:39:30,580 --> 00:39:33,260
I can do anything better than you.

1021
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,400
No, you can't.

1022
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:37,200
Yes, I can.

1023
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:38,200
No, you can't.

1024
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:39,780
Yes, I can.

1025
00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:44,240
We mustn't be this mad.

1026
00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:45,360
Why not?

1027
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,300
That afternoon, we left Debbie to set up while we went out shopping together.

1028
00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:58,580
On the one page, at no extra charge, not only me, but you.

1029
00:39:59,060 --> 00:39:59,840
Oh, go on then.

1030
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:00,560
But him as well.

1031
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:02,260
Who am I?

1032
00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:04,400
I came to see you at Yarmouth years ago.

1033
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:06,900
Am I the father of your child?

1034
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:07,200
No.

1035
00:40:07,460 --> 00:40:08,080
Oh, just checking.

1036
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:08,880
That was right.

1037
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:09,800
There you go, my love.

1038
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,060
What was he doing in Great Yarmouth?

1039
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:12,780
Doing his magic show.

1040
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:14,200
That's where you met Debbie, isn't it?

1041
00:40:14,580 --> 00:40:14,880
Yes.

1042
00:40:15,620 --> 00:40:16,300
Yes, you're right.

1043
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:16,700
Yeah.

1044
00:40:17,820 --> 00:40:18,500
How about that?

1045
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:19,060
Oh, right.

1046
00:40:19,260 --> 00:40:21,320
Could have been you just for a couple of weeks.

1047
00:40:24,140 --> 00:40:25,300
How do you drink this?

1048
00:40:25,380 --> 00:40:26,820
Knock to the camera, Paul, please.

1049
00:40:27,420 --> 00:40:28,320
I was looking for you.

1050
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:28,780
To me.

1051
00:40:29,060 --> 00:40:30,600
You were sneaking behind me.

1052
00:40:30,620 --> 00:40:33,080
How can I see it if you're behind me already?

1053
00:40:33,940 --> 00:40:36,760
Paul and I were getting on better than we ever had before.

1054
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:41,720
He seemed relaxed, and I wondered if he was secretly pleased to be taking his magic act

1055
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,780
back on the road for the sake of the ballet.

1056
00:40:43,860 --> 00:40:45,120
Two, two, one.

1057
00:40:47,260 --> 00:40:50,300
If you're happy with your photo, press the green.

1058
00:40:50,860 --> 00:40:51,620
I think so.

1059
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,440
That's all right, isn't it?

1060
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:53,060
Very good.

1061
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:53,300
Yeah.

1062
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,200
Paul, what do you think of these ones?

1063
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,900
Who is Paul Daniels?

1064
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:02,260
He's a magic magician, man.

1065
00:41:02,260 --> 00:41:02,720
Who is he?

1066
00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:04,000
He's a magic magician, man.

1067
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:05,940
Do you know his wife's name?

1068
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:06,440
No.

1069
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:07,080
Ah.

1070
00:41:07,860 --> 00:41:08,540
I bet you would if you saw him.

1071
00:41:08,540 --> 00:41:09,540
Mrs Daniels.

1072
00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:14,460
After that night's performance, I wanted to ask Debbie about Paul's change of mood.

1073
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,140
Did you have a word with Paul?

1074
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:18,840
Because I know we had a conversation about, you know...

1075
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,500
Paul, how are you doing?

1076
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:23,680
We're talking about you.

1077
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,220
I'm very delighted, because the theatre box office have said they've never had as many

1078
00:41:29,220 --> 00:41:30,480
people in for a dance show.

1079
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:32,600
Are you coming home with me?

1080
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:35,440
No, actually, Louis invited me back to his place.

1081
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:37,020
Trust me.

1082
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:37,640
Come on with me.

1083
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:41,640
I don't know.

1084
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:42,500
I'm coming home with you.

1085
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:43,120
See you, son.

1086
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:43,640
Yeah.

1087
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:44,900
We'll be with you in a minute.

1088
00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:46,960
That was quite...

1089
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:48,820
Yeah, so, no, but he seems much...

1090
00:41:48,820 --> 00:41:53,400
I know it sounds silly, but he seems much warmer, like, much less suspicious the last

1091
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,960
couple of days we've been with him.

1092
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:55,300
No, I didn't say anything.

1093
00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:56,180
Have you noticed that, though?

1094
00:41:56,180 --> 00:41:56,700
He's really like...

1095
00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:59,500
No, he's actually just a bit more relaxed himself.

1096
00:42:00,620 --> 00:42:02,360
I think because he was so worried...

1097
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,460
When you were first with him as well, A, because you...

1098
00:42:05,460 --> 00:42:08,700
We didn't know what you were going to be like, you know?

1099
00:42:08,980 --> 00:42:12,120
You worry about what you're going to say, you know.

1100
00:42:12,540 --> 00:42:13,520
Do you like us?

1101
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,320
Because we're not your sort of people.

1102
00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:16,900
No, I like you.

1103
00:42:16,980 --> 00:42:17,100
Yeah, of course.

1104
00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:17,120
You know?

1105
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:17,960
So that's...

1106
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:18,980
Is that what you were worrying about?

1107
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:19,720
Yeah, at first.

1108
00:42:19,820 --> 00:42:24,560
We'd go, oh, gosh, you'll just think we're old-fashioned and not, you know, into the things

1109
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:25,120
you're into.

1110
00:42:26,340 --> 00:42:33,400
So he particularly, not me so much, but Paul particularly felt, oh, my, you know, we

1111
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:34,440
won't be your sort of thing.

1112
00:42:34,860 --> 00:42:38,120
And maybe he's decided, because he's decided that he's going to go back on the road and

1113
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:38,900
he's doing this show.

1114
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:40,760
I mean, he's someone who needs goals, doesn't he?

1115
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:40,800
Yes, he does, yeah.

1116
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,180
He needs things to be busy with, yeah.

1117
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:45,220
So, yeah.

1118
00:42:45,460 --> 00:42:46,780
He's looking forward to it, isn't he?

1119
00:42:46,780 --> 00:42:48,780
The whistle, he wants me to go, woof, woof, I'm coming.

1120
00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:49,940
That's amazing.

1121
00:42:50,060 --> 00:42:50,900
Do the whistle back.

1122
00:42:51,180 --> 00:42:53,720
And people think, oh, God, it's awful, and he thinks you're a dog.

1123
00:42:53,980 --> 00:42:54,940
But it isn't that at all.

1124
00:42:54,980 --> 00:42:56,960
We used to lose each other all the time.

1125
00:42:57,220 --> 00:42:57,260
But now...

1126
00:42:57,260 --> 00:42:58,560
I didn't say you thought you were a dog.

1127
00:42:58,640 --> 00:42:59,660
I know, but some people have.

1128
00:43:00,940 --> 00:43:05,600
It was our last full day of filming, and Paul and I dropped in to see Keith and Mervyn,

1129
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:06,640
his management team.

1130
00:43:07,140 --> 00:43:12,080
They obviously had business to discuss concerning Paul's new magic tour and ballet imaginaire,

1131
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,100
and we were asked to leave the room.

1132
00:43:14,100 --> 00:43:18,860
Whatever was discussed at the meeting left Paul in an angry mood.

1133
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:20,960
Well, come on, you bugger.

1134
00:43:21,180 --> 00:43:22,100
Move your arse.

1135
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,440
What happened in that room?

1136
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,600
Can you tell us what happened in that meeting?

1137
00:43:25,700 --> 00:43:26,620
Mr. Nasty.

1138
00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:28,500
Paul, can you tell us what happened in that meeting?

1139
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:29,620
Yeah, I...

1140
00:43:29,620 --> 00:43:29,740
What?

1141
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,160
Can you tell us what happened in the meeting?

1142
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:31,920
What meeting?

1143
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,140
The meeting we weren't allowed to see.

1144
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:35,680
Oh, that?

1145
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:36,800
Oh, no, that's all right.

1146
00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:37,820
Oh, come on, Paul.

1147
00:43:37,860 --> 00:43:38,580
You can tell us.

1148
00:43:38,660 --> 00:43:39,020
No.

1149
00:43:39,420 --> 00:43:39,960
Why not?

1150
00:43:40,060 --> 00:43:41,540
You're not interested in my money.

1151
00:43:41,780 --> 00:43:41,960
Come on.

1152
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:42,560
We are.

1153
00:43:42,580 --> 00:43:43,240
We are.

1154
00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:44,780
We are, Paul.

1155
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:45,920
Was it about the ballet?

1156
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:49,560
Was it about the ballet?

1157
00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:53,980
So what happened in that meeting?

1158
00:43:54,140 --> 00:43:54,760
Can you tell us?

1159
00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:58,120
What were Keith and Mervyn saying?

1160
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:59,140
They were saying,

1161
00:44:01,220 --> 00:44:08,860
do I force them into continuing to spend a lot of time?

1162
00:44:09,020 --> 00:44:11,000
On finding odd dates in the spring?

1163
00:44:11,140 --> 00:44:14,060
Or do I put them into saturating the autumn?

1164
00:44:14,220 --> 00:44:18,680
So Mervyn and Keith have been calling theatres and faxing theatres saying,

1165
00:44:18,780 --> 00:44:21,100
you know, would you like to see Ballet Imaginaire?

1166
00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:24,560
No, they've been faxing theatres with both shows.

1167
00:44:25,740 --> 00:44:29,940
And they've been getting a great response on Paul Daniel's audience.

1168
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,840
Yes, but the theatres are...

1169
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,020
Yes, some are taking it or want to take it,

1170
00:44:35,020 --> 00:44:37,200
but most of them already have ballet in.

1171
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,640
And a more muted response on the ballet,

1172
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:40,800
because they've already got ballet in.

1173
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,740
They've already got ballet in.

1174
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,020
So what were they...

1175
00:44:44,020 --> 00:44:45,240
Keith and Mervyn were saying...

1176
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,420
Keith and Mervyn cannot make the decisions.

1177
00:44:47,780 --> 00:44:49,460
We're having trouble getting it.

1178
00:44:49,540 --> 00:44:51,560
Keith and Mervyn are there to do a job.

1179
00:44:52,020 --> 00:44:52,180
Yeah.

1180
00:44:52,180 --> 00:44:53,180
And they...

1181
00:44:53,180 --> 00:44:54,720
Expressed the opinion.

1182
00:44:54,860 --> 00:44:55,440
Expressed.

1183
00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:02,500
They asked me, do they still keep on going with the spring,

1184
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:06,020
or do I pull the plugs on the spring from the public point of view,

1185
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,680
go for it just for the sponsorship.

1186
00:45:08,060 --> 00:45:09,820
And I said, I can't answer this, fellas.

1187
00:45:10,240 --> 00:45:11,560
I've got to think about it.

1188
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:12,780
Because they haven't been getting...

1189
00:45:12,780 --> 00:45:16,560
And at the same time, the Louis Theroux A team...

1190
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,780
Nah, it's too much of a compliment.

1191
00:45:19,180 --> 00:45:22,600
The Louis Theroux Z team are saying,

1192
00:45:23,020 --> 00:45:24,740
can we do this, can we do that, can we do the other...

1193
00:45:24,740 --> 00:45:26,720
And I'm having to think about the business.

1194
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,160
And you're a very nice man, but you're interfering with my business.

1195
00:45:30,220 --> 00:45:31,000
When? Just now?

1196
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:31,580
Yeah.

1197
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:32,240
When?

1198
00:45:32,420 --> 00:45:33,180
When I was thinking.

1199
00:45:33,620 --> 00:45:34,900
When you were in a bad mood?

1200
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:36,520
I wasn't in a bad mood.

1201
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:37,860
But you said you were.

1202
00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:38,980
You keep pushing this.

1203
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:39,960
No, listen, so...

1204
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:41,140
No, a bad mood...

1205
00:45:41,140 --> 00:45:42,420
No, but the point is also...

1206
00:45:42,420 --> 00:45:43,180
I've been in a bad mood.

1207
00:45:43,180 --> 00:45:45,360
I flip in a bad mood.

1208
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:46,040
Do you?

1209
00:45:46,260 --> 00:45:50,620
Oh, I would throw you across the room when I get angry.

1210
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,280
That's why I don't bother getting angry anymore.

1211
00:45:53,580 --> 00:45:54,460
I get...

1212
00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:56,100
I once was angry.

1213
00:46:01,020 --> 00:46:02,760
And so we drove on to Henley,

1214
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,020
where, for our last night,

1215
00:46:04,140 --> 00:46:07,160
Debbie was preparing a special end-of-filming feast.

1216
00:46:07,860 --> 00:46:10,220
Well, what's on the menu?

1217
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,040
Apple and mushroom soup.

1218
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:13,800
With hot bread.

1219
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:15,980
And then we're going to have chicken

1220
00:46:15,980 --> 00:46:18,640
in a masala and mushroom sauce.

1221
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:19,040
Ooh.

1222
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,460
Mashed potatoes, beans...

1223
00:46:21,460 --> 00:46:22,100
Delicious.

1224
00:46:22,580 --> 00:46:23,480
I don't burn these carrots.

1225
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,200
And then I've made a banoffee pie.

1226
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:27,240
Amazing.

1227
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:29,460
To the three of us.

1228
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:30,360
To the three of us.

1229
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:31,280
How's that?

1230
00:46:32,180 --> 00:46:32,980
Ménage à trois.

1231
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:33,940
Cheers.

1232
00:46:34,180 --> 00:46:34,420
Pardon?

1233
00:46:34,420 --> 00:46:37,700
You say these words, you've no idea what they mean.

1234
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:38,220
I do.

1235
00:46:38,620 --> 00:46:38,940
Oh!

1236
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,400
I realised after I'd said it on camera.

1237
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,860
Do you think this will help the ballet?

1238
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:46,180
Might do.

1239
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,220
Having done this documentary, yeah.

1240
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,560
I hope so, I think so.

1241
00:46:49,580 --> 00:46:51,300
That's sort of why you did it, really, isn't it?

1242
00:46:51,380 --> 00:46:51,600
No.

1243
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:52,160
No?

1244
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:52,940
Why did you do it?

1245
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:53,380
No, I...

1246
00:46:53,380 --> 00:46:54,400
Because we wanted to meet you.

1247
00:46:54,580 --> 00:46:55,220
Oh, please.

1248
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:56,980
We've heard so much about you.

1249
00:46:57,700 --> 00:46:58,360
Big glance of Canada.

1250
00:46:58,360 --> 00:46:59,840
I'll must believe you for a second.

1251
00:47:00,060 --> 00:47:00,460
Well, it's...

1252
00:47:00,460 --> 00:47:01,360
And what was the real reason?

1253
00:47:01,580 --> 00:47:02,700
I'd seen a few of your programmes.

1254
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:03,420
Well, I did, yes.

1255
00:47:03,420 --> 00:47:04,020
No, you hadn't.

1256
00:47:04,020 --> 00:47:06,400
I saw you doing that one on swingers in L.A.

1257
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,420
and I thought, I've got to meet this man because it's...

1258
00:47:08,420 --> 00:47:09,960
No, that's not the real reason, though.

1259
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,080
Excuse me, you've just gone to a menage à trois

1260
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:13,640
to a swingers conversation.

1261
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:15,000
I'm in that sort of mood tonight.

1262
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:15,740
Have you been away?

1263
00:47:15,860 --> 00:47:17,360
She's been away, you know, on this tour.

1264
00:47:17,420 --> 00:47:18,160
I don't know what's happened.

1265
00:47:18,420 --> 00:47:18,920
There we are.

1266
00:47:19,700 --> 00:47:21,000
Right, shall we go and...

1267
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,080
Can I admire your outfit?

1268
00:47:23,220 --> 00:47:24,380
It's amazing, isn't it?

1269
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:25,700
At first of all, it was a skirt, but...

1270
00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:26,000
Thank you.

1271
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,440
It's not, it's a, um...

1272
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:27,920
Catsuit.

1273
00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:30,480
A catsuit?

1274
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,860
That's incredible.

1275
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:35,600
Yeah.

1276
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:36,680
Is that one piece?

1277
00:47:36,780 --> 00:47:37,020
Yes.

1278
00:47:37,180 --> 00:47:38,980
Yeah, and the frilly bits are built in.

1279
00:47:39,180 --> 00:47:40,280
Are the frilly bits built in?

1280
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:41,160
Mm, yeah.

1281
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:43,780
You're supposed to do it like this.

1282
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,180
No, no, not with these glasses on, that's it.

1283
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,460
Oh, come on, what's a few glasses, Paul?

1284
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:49,080
Live a little.

1285
00:47:50,220 --> 00:47:55,300
One, three, one, two, three.

1286
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,280
Hey, good.

1287
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:00,280
Isn't that cool?

1288
00:48:00,460 --> 00:48:00,700
Yeah.

1289
00:48:01,220 --> 00:48:03,180
Lifetime, that's a teacher's very cool.

1290
00:48:07,380 --> 00:48:08,440
Go on, go to it.

1291
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:09,000
Go on.

1292
00:48:09,180 --> 00:48:10,700
I need to break.

1293
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:11,340
Sorry.

1294
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:12,160
I'll do it.

1295
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:14,300
I remember drinking a fair amount that night.

1296
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,940
It all seemed very relaxed, and we were happy in each other's company.

1297
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:20,940
I don't think it was just the wine that made me feel that.

1298
00:48:20,940 --> 00:48:22,180
If we made the best.

1299
00:48:23,180 --> 00:48:24,400
Oh, my God.

1300
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:26,000
Oh, my God.

1301
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:33,260
It tilted up a bit.

1302
00:48:33,260 --> 00:48:33,960
Oh, my God.

1303
00:48:34,420 --> 00:48:34,860
Yeah.

1304
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:36,280
Way to go.

1305
00:48:36,860 --> 00:48:37,180
Yeah.

1306
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:37,960
Too right.

1307
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:46,780
And here we are in the kitchen of Debbie McGee, where a garden gnome has come in from outside

1308
00:48:46,780 --> 00:48:48,300
and sat on my work, sir.

1309
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:51,420
That's my office over there.

1310
00:48:51,420 --> 00:48:57,200
A couple of glasses of wine later, I was moved to say a few words.

1311
00:48:57,540 --> 00:49:02,380
What I'm amazed by, if I'm at the risk of being over-candid, is that this is basically

1312
00:49:02,380 --> 00:49:06,800
Debbie's dream, and I've been looking for sort of a tension between you, you know, the

1313
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:11,360
idea that Paul's going to resent sort of spending a lot of money on making your dream come true,

1314
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,600
but I haven't really, I haven't really seen it.

1315
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,200
Yeah, but you see, you went around for all the years when Debbie was doing exactly the

1316
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:19,720
same thing for me in the magic shows.

1317
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,840
You have been surprised about that, haven't you?

1318
00:49:21,940 --> 00:49:22,800
Have you noticed?

1319
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:23,300
Yeah.

1320
00:49:23,540 --> 00:49:27,140
You've asked lots of questions saying, don't you really think that Paul thinks, you know?

1321
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:28,740
And I think, no.

1322
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,200
Now you know that I wasn't lying.

1323
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,500
It actually upsets some journalists, you know.

1324
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:34,940
Well, I know you're a journalist.

1325
00:49:34,940 --> 00:49:41,000
And it upsets them that we kind of get along, and it's upsets them that we're happy together.

1326
00:49:41,540 --> 00:49:44,880
And I think, well, get a life of your own, don't you know?

1327
00:49:45,220 --> 00:49:46,420
Stop poking into mine.

1328
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,900
A genuinely happy couple, I think, is a rare thing.

1329
00:49:49,100 --> 00:49:50,280
No, it's not.

1330
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:51,120
I think it is a rare thing.

1331
00:49:51,140 --> 00:49:52,760
No, I don't think it is a rare thing.

1332
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,800
I think there's billions of us out there, and it's all the little manky, miserable little

1333
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,420
people who aren't, who aren't, who make the biggest shout.

1334
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:02,740
But you're so bitter.

1335
00:50:03,260 --> 00:50:03,700
No, but no.

1336
00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:05,060
Why did you suddenly get so angry about that?

1337
00:50:05,060 --> 00:50:05,980
No, no, not so bitter.

1338
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:12,060
I just think it's so sad that these people have the voice, when the truth of the matter

1339
00:50:12,060 --> 00:50:15,800
is that most people on the planet are very happy.

1340
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:20,380
Paul and Debbie do seem happy.

1341
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:26,340
They genuinely care for and rely on each other, united against the manky and miserable little

1342
00:50:26,340 --> 00:50:29,300
people, a magic circle of two.

1343
00:50:33,700 --> 00:50:44,240
Good to see you, son.

1344
00:50:44,500 --> 00:50:45,200
You take care.

1345
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:46,000
Thanks for everything.

1346
00:50:46,140 --> 00:50:46,960
Do call again.

1347
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:47,520
I will.

1348
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:48,520
You take care.

1349
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:49,520
I will.

1350
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:50,520
I will.

1351
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:51,520
I will.

1352
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:52,520
I will.

1353
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:53,520
I will.

1354
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:54,520
I will.

1355
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:55,520
I will.

1356
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:56,520
I will.

1357
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:57,520
I will.

1358
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:58,180
See you, Louis.

1359
00:50:58,180 --> 00:50:58,860
Hi, guys.

1360
00:50:58,860 --> 00:51:00,040
Well, will we miss him?

1361
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:00,920
Not a lot.

1362
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:01,620
No, I know.

1363
00:51:01,620 --> 00:51:03,100
He's all right.

1364
00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:13,780
Oh, we are totally mad.

1365
00:51:19,780 --> 00:51:26,100
With BBC Online, you can turn the clock back and rummage through our TV vault at bbc.co.uk

1366
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:27,100
slash cult.