1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,679 MUSIC 2 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:15,480 People see these nice people who are very hospitable, 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,760 but what they don't see is what happens behind closed doors. 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,679 This was the place where I started to speak up and say, 5 00:00:21,679 --> 00:00:23,240 hey, this is wrong. 6 00:00:23,240 --> 00:00:26,039 Every single time I drive by this building, 7 00:00:26,039 --> 00:00:27,839 it makes me sad. 8 00:00:27,919 --> 00:00:30,480 This was the happiest people, 9 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,600 because for a moment, they forgot they were in a cult. 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,240 I'm Elizabeth Vargas, and this is A&E Investigates, 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,560 Cults and Extreme Belief. 12 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,039 So, what is a cult? 13 00:00:42,039 --> 00:00:43,560 It's a very controversial word, 14 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,480 and there's a lot of debate about what that word means. 15 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:49,280 A cult is a group of people who are intensely committed 16 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,840 to a charismatic leader and a sense of belief. 17 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,200 But sometimes those charismatic leaders in belief systems 18 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,600 have dangerous consequences. 19 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,400 I'm here tonight with a group of people who are survivors 20 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:06,680 of what they consider to be cults or extreme movements. 21 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,079 This is a rare opportunity for them to come together 22 00:01:09,079 --> 00:01:13,120 and share their stories, suffering and strength. 23 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,280 While each individual has a different background, 24 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:18,840 we'll learn there are eerie similarities that they share. 25 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,240 Together, we'll discuss cult culture 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,439 from a personal and psychological perspective. 27 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,640 What is a cult? 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:32,280 It's a group of people who are deeply committed to cult culture. 29 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,240 They're very committed to the cult culture, 30 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,680 and they're very committed to the cult culture. 31 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:38,040 So, what is a cult? 32 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,040 It's a group of people who are deeply committed to cult culture. 33 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,040 They're very committed to the cult culture. 34 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,480 So, what is a cult? 35 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,480 It's a group of people who are deeply committed to cult culture. 36 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:49,480 They're very committed to the cult culture. 37 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:50,879 So, what is a cult? 38 00:01:50,879 --> 00:01:53,879 It's a group of people who are deeply committed to cult culture. 39 00:01:53,879 --> 00:01:55,280 So, what is a cult? 40 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,079 It's a group of people who are deeply committed to cult culture. 41 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:01,159 You were also a recruiter at the end for this group. 42 00:02:01,159 --> 00:02:04,359 You made a very big splash on the public stage 43 00:02:04,359 --> 00:02:06,359 when you came forward with your story, 44 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:10,360 that you had been branded as part of the group, Nexium. 45 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,560 Keith is a businessman who created Nexium in 1998. 46 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,159 Under Keith's leadership, Nexium has brought in millions 47 00:02:18,159 --> 00:02:21,280 for personal and professional development programs. 48 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,680 We were all pawns for him in his sick, perverted fantasy, 49 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:26,680 especially women. 50 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,159 I don't think people can imagine what it's like 51 00:02:30,159 --> 00:02:32,960 to have your skin seared open 52 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,960 by a hot cauterizing iron for 40 or 45 minutes. 53 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,360 There's this whole description of what all the lines meant. 54 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,360 But really, it's Keith's initials. 55 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,360 I'm f***ing Keith's initials on my f***ing crotch. 56 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,360 Romi Maple was born into a group, the Jehovah's Witnesses, 57 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,360 a group you also now call a cult. 58 00:02:55,040 --> 00:03:00,040 You were sexually abused in that group for many years 59 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,440 and were told you were lying when you went repeatedly to adults 60 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:06,440 to tell them what was happening to you. 61 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,240 I feel like, as a Jehovah's Witness, as a little girl, 62 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,040 I feel like my whole childhood was stolen. 63 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:16,040 I was sexually abused by somebody in the organization 64 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,040 and no one would help me. 65 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,240 Those crimes were systematically covered up by Watchtower, 66 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:22,840 and it's despicable. 67 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:24,920 I'm sharing my painful story 68 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:27,920 because I want the Jehovah's Witnesses to change. 69 00:03:27,920 --> 00:03:30,920 The stuff that's going on that I've seen, that's criminal. 70 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:35,920 Elijah Muhammad, you were a member of the United Nation of Islam. 71 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,920 You were part of that group as a small child. 72 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,920 You and your brother were sent away as young boys 73 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,920 to a place called Heaven in Kansas City, Kansas... 74 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:47,920 Correct. 75 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,920 ...where you were then spending the next several years of your lives 76 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,000 working, basically in violation of child labor laws. 77 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,000 The leader, Royal, preached that he would be the one 78 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,000 to help minorities rise up from oppression, 79 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,000 and we believe them. 80 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,000 The organization is utilizing the labor of children. 81 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,000 It's definitely human trafficking. 82 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,000 My parents just really put their trust into something 83 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,000 that they thought was a religion, 84 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,000 which turned out to be a monster. 85 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,000 And then, finally, Sammy Brasso. 86 00:04:21,079 --> 00:04:27,079 You were a member of the 12 tribes, also a cult, you claim. 87 00:04:27,079 --> 00:04:29,079 You were born into this. 88 00:04:29,079 --> 00:04:32,079 Your family was actual royalty in 12 tribes. 89 00:04:32,079 --> 00:04:35,079 And it took you two tries to break free. 90 00:04:35,079 --> 00:04:38,079 You finally did and have started an organization 91 00:04:38,079 --> 00:04:42,079 committed to helping people break free of cults. 92 00:04:42,079 --> 00:04:45,079 We were going to bring in the end times. 93 00:04:45,079 --> 00:04:47,079 We were going to be the only chosen people 94 00:04:47,079 --> 00:04:49,079 that God would save when he destroyed the Earth. 95 00:04:49,159 --> 00:04:53,159 Typical child behavior, things like not raising our hand 96 00:04:53,159 --> 00:04:55,159 at the dinner table, not finishing our food, 97 00:04:55,159 --> 00:04:57,159 we were thanked for. 98 00:04:57,159 --> 00:05:00,159 There were babies as young as six months old 99 00:05:00,159 --> 00:05:03,159 that were expected to not cry during the service. 100 00:05:03,159 --> 00:05:07,159 It was all in the name of, you know, perfecting them. 101 00:05:07,159 --> 00:05:09,159 I couldn't protect myself, 102 00:05:09,159 --> 00:05:11,159 and there was no one else there to protect me. 103 00:05:11,159 --> 00:05:14,159 They've hurt so many people. 104 00:05:14,159 --> 00:05:16,159 I've been gone for almost 13 years, 105 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,240 and I still feel like I'm not free. 106 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,240 And finally, we have Janja Lalic, 107 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,240 who is our expert, has written five books on cults, 108 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,240 on what comprises a cult. 109 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:33,240 But first of all, all four of you have chosen to speak out 110 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,240 in an enormously public way and share in painful detail 111 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,240 stories that are sometimes heartbreaking, 112 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,240 at other times harrowing. 113 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,240 I just want to hear from all of you 114 00:05:45,319 --> 00:05:48,319 how you made the decision to come forward, why, 115 00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:51,319 and what's been the hardest thing about it. 116 00:05:53,319 --> 00:05:56,319 I decided to come forward, 117 00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:59,319 and I think I'm the most fresh out out of everyone. 118 00:05:59,319 --> 00:06:01,319 I'm only nine or ten months out. 119 00:06:01,319 --> 00:06:04,319 But I will tell you, my initial instinct, 120 00:06:04,319 --> 00:06:08,319 when I found out what was the dark underbelly of NXIVM, 121 00:06:08,319 --> 00:06:10,319 that I was just going to step back 122 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:12,319 and go back to my acting career 123 00:06:12,399 --> 00:06:15,399 and to slip away. 124 00:06:15,399 --> 00:06:19,399 And then when I realized how widespread the darkness was, 125 00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:25,399 and how I had to expose this disgusting leader, 126 00:06:25,399 --> 00:06:30,399 that it was just very instantly the right thing to do. 127 00:06:30,399 --> 00:06:33,399 The rest of you have all said to me similar things, 128 00:06:33,399 --> 00:06:35,399 that you couldn't stay silent. 129 00:06:35,399 --> 00:06:37,399 Why? 130 00:06:37,399 --> 00:06:40,399 The thing for me is most people view the cult I grew up in 131 00:06:40,479 --> 00:06:42,479 as a harmless cult. 132 00:06:42,479 --> 00:06:45,479 And those two words don't go together in the same sentence. 133 00:06:45,479 --> 00:06:47,479 There isn't such thing as a harmless cult. 134 00:06:47,479 --> 00:06:48,479 There isn't. 135 00:06:48,479 --> 00:06:49,479 And ignorance is bliss. 136 00:06:49,479 --> 00:06:52,479 When you don't understand what's going on behind closed doors, 137 00:06:52,479 --> 00:06:54,479 you excuse it. 138 00:06:54,479 --> 00:06:57,479 And no one has really done this. 139 00:06:57,479 --> 00:07:00,479 No one from where I came from has taken a stand 140 00:07:00,479 --> 00:07:03,479 and publicly said what's actually going on 141 00:07:03,479 --> 00:07:05,479 and had proof to back it up. 142 00:07:05,479 --> 00:07:06,479 And pulled back the curtain, in essence. 143 00:07:06,479 --> 00:07:07,479 Exactly. 144 00:07:07,479 --> 00:07:09,479 Is that what all of you were trying to do in some ways? 145 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:10,560 Pull the curtain back and say, 146 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:12,560 hey, this is what's really happening? 147 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:13,560 Absolutely. 148 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:14,560 Absolutely. 149 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,560 That's the only reason why these cults exist. 150 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:17,560 No one speaks about it. 151 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:19,560 They leave and pretend it never happened 152 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,560 and try to move on with their life. 153 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:25,560 For me, I had gotten to the point 154 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:30,560 where I was willing to lay it all on the line 155 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,560 because I felt like I really didn't have anything else to lose. 156 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,560 You know, my relationship with my parents, 157 00:07:36,639 --> 00:07:39,639 when I was 12, it was no more. 158 00:07:39,639 --> 00:07:42,639 You know, if you've got a bunch of negative things 159 00:07:42,639 --> 00:07:43,639 happening in the community, 160 00:07:43,639 --> 00:07:46,639 drugs, gang banging, violence, 161 00:07:46,639 --> 00:07:49,639 and then you have a place that claims to be opposite of it, 162 00:07:49,639 --> 00:07:52,639 of course you want your children to participate 163 00:07:52,639 --> 00:07:55,639 in something better than what they're used to. 164 00:07:55,639 --> 00:07:58,639 My parents were not bad people. 165 00:07:58,639 --> 00:07:59,639 They weren't bad people. 166 00:07:59,639 --> 00:08:00,639 They were naive. 167 00:08:00,639 --> 00:08:03,639 And so bags were packed that night. 168 00:08:03,719 --> 00:08:06,719 We were told transportation will be here tomorrow to get you. 169 00:08:09,719 --> 00:08:11,719 It was a semi-truck. 170 00:08:11,719 --> 00:08:12,719 It read on the side, 171 00:08:12,719 --> 00:08:14,719 the United Nations of Islam, 172 00:08:14,719 --> 00:08:18,719 and we rode them back to be transported. 173 00:08:18,719 --> 00:08:20,719 When the truck pulled up 174 00:08:20,719 --> 00:08:22,719 and me and my brother got off, 175 00:08:22,719 --> 00:08:24,719 the first thing they told us was, 176 00:08:24,719 --> 00:08:26,719 this is the FY Barracks. 177 00:08:26,719 --> 00:08:28,719 So leaving your parents' house 178 00:08:28,719 --> 00:08:31,719 and transitioning to Barracks, 179 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,800 it's a place where soldiers reside. 180 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:36,800 So we're no longer children. 181 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,800 We're expected to be soldiers. 182 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,800 We're expected to be men. 183 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:44,800 And that meant anything that came along with that, 184 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,800 you had to endure it. 185 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:47,800 Oh. 186 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,800 Yanya, why do you think reflexively 187 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,800 it feels like so much of society is hard 188 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:59,800 or judgmental on people who join a cult? 189 00:08:59,879 --> 00:09:01,879 There's a judgment about anybody who would be what? 190 00:09:01,879 --> 00:09:02,879 Fill in the blanks. 191 00:09:02,879 --> 00:09:04,879 Silly enough, stupid enough, naive enough. 192 00:09:04,879 --> 00:09:06,879 Stupid is what I hear most. 193 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:12,879 You know, when you meet people 194 00:09:12,879 --> 00:09:14,879 who don't have any cult experience, 195 00:09:14,879 --> 00:09:16,879 they just don't get it at all. 196 00:09:16,879 --> 00:09:19,879 It's always like, how could you have been so stupid? 197 00:09:19,879 --> 00:09:21,879 You know, cults look for weak people. 198 00:09:21,879 --> 00:09:24,879 That person must have wanted to be led around by the nose. 199 00:09:24,879 --> 00:09:26,879 I know that there are women out there 200 00:09:26,879 --> 00:09:28,879 watching this or reading my story 201 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:29,960 or reading about the branding going, 202 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:30,960 you're a f***ing idiot. 203 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:31,960 You're so stupid. 204 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,960 I know that exists, and I would think that too. 205 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,960 So I was in Albany with a group of women, 206 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,960 and we were told to take off our clothes. 207 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,960 We were shuffled into a tiny little guest room, 208 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,960 and we saw a medical table like a massage table. 209 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,960 The first woman lay down on the table. 210 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,040 I found out I was not getting a tattoo. 211 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,040 I was going to be branded. 212 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,040 The point, they said, of the whole branding 213 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,040 is to do something character building 214 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,040 so that you could do anything. 215 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,040 And I said to Lauren, I don't want to do this. 216 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:20,040 You told me I was getting a tattoo. 217 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,040 She's like, it's like a tattoo. 218 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,120 She's like, it's like a tattoo. 219 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,120 It's a brand, and it's so beautiful. 220 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,120 This is what it... 221 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,120 I don't want that on my body. 222 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,120 I could have walked out naked into the street 223 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,120 and figured out how to get a cab. 224 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:33,120 It was not an option for me 225 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,120 because she had all the s*** on me. 226 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,120 She had my nude photo. 227 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:37,120 She had my videos. 228 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,120 She had my written confessional. 229 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,120 And then on top of that, 230 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,120 she was using my values against me. 231 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,120 You need to do this because you committed to this, 232 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,120 and this is what you need 233 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:47,120 to be the strongest version of yourself 234 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,120 and to like save your marriage and be a good mom. 235 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,200 And I trusted her in that. 236 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:57,200 I don't think people can imagine 237 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,200 what it's like to have your skin seared open 238 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,200 by a hot cauterizing iron 239 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,200 for 40 or 45 minutes. 240 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:06,200 In hair and makeup, 241 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:07,200 we weren't supposed to talk to each other, 242 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:08,200 but we did for a second, 243 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,200 and I mentioned the branding, 244 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,200 and she didn't... 245 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,200 Everyone else was, how does that happen? 246 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,200 How did you do it? 247 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,200 Why didn't you walk out? 248 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200 And she just like held my hand and said, I'm sorry. 249 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:20,280 There's a saying, 250 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,280 nobody joins a cult. 251 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:23,280 No one. 252 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:24,280 What that means is 253 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,280 nobody when they join that group 254 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:27,280 thinks at that time 255 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:28,280 that it's a cult. 256 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,280 No. 257 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,280 Right? 258 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,280 Is there subterfuge involved? 259 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,280 Did you guys feel deceived? 260 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:35,280 Yes. 261 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:36,280 Absolutely. 262 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:38,280 The whole thing was a deceit. 263 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,280 The whole thing was a fraud. 264 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:41,280 Look at this beautiful thing. 265 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,280 There has to be something good on the outside 266 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:44,280 for people to come join. 267 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,360 One of the things that I find very interesting 268 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:49,360 and very misleading 269 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,360 is what they say to the congregation 270 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,360 is very different than what happens in the back room. 271 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,360 The way that we're taught 272 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,360 is that there's a two-witness rule 273 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,360 with any wrongdoing, 274 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,360 and that if you've got wrongdoing, 275 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:03,360 someone's done something to you, 276 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:05,360 go to the elders with two witnesses 277 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,360 before they'll believe you 278 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:09,360 or take action. 279 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,360 And that's what we're taught. 280 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,440 I was sexually abused for most of my childhood. 281 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,440 I tried to tell them what was happening to me. 282 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,440 I remember walking into the elders' house, 283 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,440 and I told him what was happening. 284 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:24,440 And he looked at me 285 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,440 and took like the stance back at me 286 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,440 and called me a liar, 287 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:30,440 and he took his fist 288 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,440 and he slammed it on the table. 289 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:33,440 Boom! 290 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:34,440 And he said, 291 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,440 don't you ever speak. 292 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:38,440 And I said, 293 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,520 and he said, 294 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,520 don't you ever speak 295 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,520 of that man like that again. 296 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:45,520 And so I kept trying 297 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,520 and I kept trying and I kept trying. 298 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,520 And I was told for years 299 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,520 that we can't help you, 300 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,520 but you're going to these big people 301 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:54,520 thinking they're going to protect you 302 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:55,520 and that they're going to help you 303 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,520 and they're going to make it better. 304 00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:58,520 And basically, 305 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:00,520 they don't do anything. 306 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:04,520 Elijah, 307 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,520 the United Nation of Islam presented 308 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,600 a picture of hope 309 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,600 to educate your kids. 310 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:11,600 In actuality? 311 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:13,600 To live 312 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,600 that dream world that was painted 313 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:19,600 and the weight of it was tremendous. 314 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:21,600 And then later, 315 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,600 you start to develop a fear 316 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,600 of stepping out of place 317 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:26,600 by remembering 318 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,600 what they had do to you. 319 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,600 If you were escorted for something, 320 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,600 you were brought to the mic 321 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:33,600 and math class 322 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,600 and publicly humiliated. 323 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:36,680 Math class 324 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,680 is not the normal math class. 325 00:13:38,680 --> 00:13:41,680 The class consisted of different people 326 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:44,680 who did bad things that day. 327 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:48,680 You were brought in front of the people 328 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:50,680 and you were humiliated. 329 00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:53,680 Disciplinary action 330 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:55,680 is what is next. 331 00:13:55,680 --> 00:13:58,680 A person that was in a scenario 332 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:00,680 or an infraction in the nation, 333 00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:04,680 the entire auditorium of people 334 00:14:04,759 --> 00:14:05,759 would come to the mic 335 00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:07,759 and punch the person in the chest. 336 00:14:09,759 --> 00:14:12,759 That was what was referred to as a chest cavity. 337 00:14:15,759 --> 00:14:16,759 The really hard thing too 338 00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:17,759 is when you spend your whole entire life 339 00:14:17,759 --> 00:14:19,759 someone thinking for you. 340 00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:20,759 So for me, 341 00:14:20,759 --> 00:14:21,759 it's like I lost my own sense of reality 342 00:14:21,759 --> 00:14:23,759 and who I was as a person. 343 00:14:23,759 --> 00:14:24,759 You know, 344 00:14:24,759 --> 00:14:25,759 you lose that 345 00:14:25,759 --> 00:14:26,759 because you spin around and around and around 346 00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:27,759 and the next thing you know, 347 00:14:27,759 --> 00:14:28,759 you don't know who you are. 348 00:14:28,759 --> 00:14:29,759 If you're all tense 349 00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:31,759 and your mind is spinning out 350 00:14:31,759 --> 00:14:32,759 in worry and anxiety, 351 00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:33,759 you can't feel your instincts. 352 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,840 You can't hear what your inner voice is telling you. 353 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:40,840 It's part of that indoctrination process 354 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:41,840 that just shuts you down 355 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:42,840 and molds you, 356 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:44,840 makes you conform and comply. 357 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:45,840 That's what cults are all about, 358 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,840 conformity and compliance. 359 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:48,840 And if you don't, 360 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:49,840 the punishments get worse and worse. 361 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:50,840 And if you don't, 362 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:51,840 the punishments are there. 363 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,840 I've heard that from a few of you guys. 364 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:54,840 That feeling, 365 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,840 something's not right here. 366 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:58,840 Do you remember how young you were 367 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,840 when you first had that feeling? 368 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:02,920 I was seven years old 369 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,920 when I first decided that I wanted to leave. 370 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:07,920 My father played guitar 371 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:09,920 and he was one of the musicians 372 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:11,920 for the services that we had. 373 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,920 He had noticed that someone had been 374 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,920 fooling around with his guitar. 375 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:16,920 And he kept asking 376 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,920 and this little boy stepped forward 377 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:19,920 and said, 378 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:20,920 I saw her do it. 379 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:21,920 And, you know, 380 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:23,920 I'm standing in front of 150 people 381 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:25,920 and my parents asked me in front of everyone, 382 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:26,920 did you do it? 383 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:27,920 And I said, 384 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:28,920 no, I didn't do that. 385 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:29,920 I would never do that. 386 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:30,920 And I said, 387 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,000 I wouldn't do that. 388 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,000 I would never do that. 389 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,000 And they said, 390 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,000 you're lying. 391 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:36,000 Go to your room. 392 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,000 For the next seven days, 393 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,000 I was given one meal a day 394 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,000 and I couldn't leave my bed. 395 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,000 And every day, 396 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,000 a different adult would bring me 397 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,000 a plate of food for dinner. 398 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,000 And they would say to me, 399 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000 why don't you just tell the truth? 400 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,000 I remember praying every day. 401 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,080 Saying, God, 402 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,080 why can't you just tell him I am? 403 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,080 I am telling the truth. 404 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,080 And it just, 405 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,080 I didn't understand. 406 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,080 They would tell me God spoke to them. 407 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,080 God spoke to me today and he told me this. 408 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,080 So I said to myself, 409 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,080 they're all full of s***. 410 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,080 If he really, 411 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,080 if they really did hear from God, 412 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,080 he would tell them. 413 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:28,080 And after a week, 414 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,160 I said, 415 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,160 it's all a joke. 416 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,160 After that, 417 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:35,160 I said to myself, 418 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,160 as soon as I was old enough, 419 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:37,160 I was out. 420 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,160 So what is the one thing all of you hope people 421 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,160 understand better about cults? 422 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,160 People ask me a lot, 423 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,160 how do I know it's a cult? 424 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:48,160 What do I look for? 425 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:49,160 I tell them, 426 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:50,160 you can't know. 427 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,160 You won't know until it's too late. 428 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,160 But you can look for red flags 429 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:56,160 and you can do your research 430 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,160 and you can not ignore 431 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:58,240 the red flags. 432 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,240 When you see a red flag, stop. 433 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:01,240 Run the other way. 434 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:03,240 What are those red flags? 435 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,240 So what is the one thing all of you 436 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,240 that you hope people 437 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:11,240 understand better 438 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,240 about these groups we call cults? 439 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,240 People ask me a lot, 440 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,240 how do I know it's a cult? 441 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:18,240 What do I look for? 442 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:19,240 I tell them, 443 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:20,240 you can't know. 444 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,240 But you can look for red flags 445 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:23,240 and you can do your research 446 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,240 and you can not ignore the red flags. 447 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:28,319 When you see a red flag, stop. 448 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:30,319 What are those red flags? 449 00:17:30,319 --> 00:17:32,319 A leader accountable to no one? 450 00:17:32,319 --> 00:17:33,319 A leader accountable to no one. 451 00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:34,319 The feelings that you get 452 00:17:34,319 --> 00:17:36,319 when you see something that's wrong 453 00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:38,319 and nobody does anything about it? 454 00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:40,319 Can you criticize the leader? 455 00:17:40,319 --> 00:17:42,319 That was the biggest thing for me. 456 00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:45,319 If he can do no wrong, 457 00:17:45,319 --> 00:17:47,319 you might be in a cult. 458 00:17:47,319 --> 00:17:49,319 If you're asked to sign a waiver, 459 00:17:49,319 --> 00:17:51,319 you've got to know something must be wrong. 460 00:17:51,319 --> 00:17:53,319 And in Sarah's case, 461 00:17:53,319 --> 00:17:55,319 you couldn't even just walk in. 462 00:17:55,399 --> 00:17:57,399 That's a red flag right there. 463 00:17:57,399 --> 00:17:59,399 You needed to be vetted. 464 00:17:59,399 --> 00:18:01,399 That exclusivity makes the people 465 00:18:01,399 --> 00:18:02,399 in the group feel like, 466 00:18:02,399 --> 00:18:04,399 wow, we're in something really special. 467 00:18:04,399 --> 00:18:05,399 We're really elite 468 00:18:05,399 --> 00:18:06,399 because not everybody's able 469 00:18:06,399 --> 00:18:08,399 to join our organization. 470 00:18:08,399 --> 00:18:10,399 The eliteness also, us versus them, 471 00:18:10,399 --> 00:18:12,399 which I think all of you have had, 472 00:18:12,399 --> 00:18:15,399 there's a very specialness to us 473 00:18:15,399 --> 00:18:16,399 in the circle, in the family, 474 00:18:16,399 --> 00:18:18,399 and everyone else doesn't get it. 475 00:18:18,399 --> 00:18:20,399 That's a warning sign. 476 00:18:20,399 --> 00:18:22,399 I want to talk about the money 477 00:18:22,399 --> 00:18:24,399 around each of your organizations. 478 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,480 At the heart of it was a way 479 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,480 to generate a lot of money. 480 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,480 Eli, where was all the money going 481 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,480 in the United Nations of Islam? 482 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,480 That money was going towards Royal, 483 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,480 the founder of the organization, 484 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,480 his vehicles, homes that he had 485 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,480 around the country. 486 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:45,480 While kids like you and your brother, 487 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,480 who were 12 and 14 when you started doing this, 488 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,480 are working around the country, 489 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,480 and you're working in the United States, 490 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:54,559 are working around the clock? 491 00:18:54,559 --> 00:18:55,559 Absolutely. 492 00:18:55,559 --> 00:18:56,559 For free? 493 00:18:56,559 --> 00:18:57,559 For free. 494 00:18:57,559 --> 00:19:00,559 We really didn't have a chance to breathe. 495 00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,559 It was constant, constant motion. 496 00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:06,559 School. 497 00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:09,559 Then after school, duty, work. 498 00:19:09,559 --> 00:19:11,559 I was a dishwasher. 499 00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:14,559 After work, I went to worship. 500 00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:15,559 Then after worship, 501 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:17,559 you go back to the dishwasher. 502 00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,559 Finish up, go home in the morning. 503 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:24,559 Then wake up at 5, 504 00:19:24,559 --> 00:19:26,559 do it all over again. 505 00:19:27,559 --> 00:19:31,559 That was my daily routine at 12 years old. 506 00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:33,559 What is the communication like 507 00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:35,559 with home at that point? 508 00:19:35,639 --> 00:19:40,639 We really didn't communicate much back home. 509 00:19:40,639 --> 00:19:42,639 When we would speak, 510 00:19:44,639 --> 00:19:47,639 an official would mount a phone call. 511 00:19:50,639 --> 00:19:52,639 So we really wouldn't... 512 00:19:52,639 --> 00:19:54,639 They didn't reach out to us. 513 00:19:54,639 --> 00:19:56,639 They didn't even give us a call. 514 00:19:56,639 --> 00:19:58,639 They didn't even give us a phone call. 515 00:19:58,639 --> 00:20:00,639 They didn't even give us a phone call. 516 00:20:00,639 --> 00:20:02,639 They didn't even give us a phone call. 517 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,720 So we really wouldn't... 518 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,720 They didn't reach out to us much 519 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,720 and we weren't calling them. 520 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,720 Sammy, in many cases, 521 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,720 I'm struck by the similarities between your two stories. 522 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,720 As he was speaking, I was thinking, 523 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,720 well, I'm so lucky they didn't send us all to a work camp. 524 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,720 And in my mind, just now, 525 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,720 as you were asking me that question, 526 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,720 I realized, how did I not see it? 527 00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:32,799 I was also sent to a work camp. 528 00:20:32,799 --> 00:20:34,799 I worked in the restaurants. 529 00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:36,799 I worked in the bakeries. 530 00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:38,799 I used to get up at 3 in the morning and bake muffins 531 00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:40,799 when I was 14 years old. 532 00:20:40,799 --> 00:20:42,799 And I have a photograph of me sitting, 533 00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:45,799 chopping pecans for, like, 534 00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:48,799 peach pecan muffins at like 3.30, 4 o'clock in the morning. 535 00:20:48,799 --> 00:20:50,799 And I looked like a ghost. 536 00:20:50,799 --> 00:20:52,799 I'm white. 537 00:20:52,799 --> 00:20:54,799 I look like death warmed over. 538 00:20:54,799 --> 00:20:56,799 I try to defend it sometimes where I'm like, 539 00:20:56,799 --> 00:20:58,799 well, it was just part of growing up 540 00:20:58,879 --> 00:21:00,879 and I got work ethic. 541 00:21:00,879 --> 00:21:02,879 But, no, I was worked. 542 00:21:02,879 --> 00:21:04,879 It's so common in these groups 543 00:21:04,879 --> 00:21:06,879 where they use children to earn money 544 00:21:06,879 --> 00:21:08,879 and these children never see a cent. 545 00:21:08,879 --> 00:21:10,879 They never get an education. 546 00:21:10,879 --> 00:21:12,879 Is that still going on? 547 00:21:12,879 --> 00:21:14,879 It's still going on. 548 00:21:14,879 --> 00:21:18,879 My siblings, my nieces and nephews are there. 549 00:21:18,879 --> 00:21:21,879 And it's hard to swallow the fact 550 00:21:21,879 --> 00:21:23,879 that there's really hardly anything I can do. 551 00:21:23,879 --> 00:21:26,879 But I hope that what I'm doing is the right thing 552 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:28,960 and it's gonna help. 553 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:30,960 It's important. 554 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,960 Yeah. 555 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,960 It's still going on in your community as well. 556 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:36,960 Oh, yeah. 557 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,960 We're not talking about just pre-teens, 12, 11. 558 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,960 We're talking about as young as 5, 6 years old. 559 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:43,960 We're going out here smiling, 560 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,960 sometimes in below zero weather 561 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:48,960 to sell these baked goods. 562 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,960 So it's a serious situation. 563 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,960 When I came to Kansas, I did not go to school. 564 00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:57,039 I was shipped downstairs into a basement 565 00:21:57,039 --> 00:22:00,039 where I worked with two elderly people 566 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:03,039 who trained me in the ways of making products 567 00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:05,039 for the nation's businesses. 568 00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:07,039 It's not like we would be experiencing 569 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:09,039 the benefits of the business, like, 570 00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:11,039 oh, this is where you can go to wash your laundry. 571 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:13,039 No, you'll be working here and washing other people's laundry 572 00:22:13,039 --> 00:22:15,039 when they come. 573 00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:17,039 It was just all a lie. 574 00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:20,039 They still currently have children doing that now, 575 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:22,039 what we were doing then. 576 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,119 You know, we would be so hungry sometimes 577 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,119 that we would eat the seaweed 578 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,119 that we used in the products, 579 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,119 that we'd use dry seaweed to make conditioners and stuff. 580 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,119 And I would be so hungry 581 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,119 that we would just eat the seaweed. 582 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,119 You know, it's like f***ing gel, you know? 583 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:41,119 And it's like... 584 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,119 And I would always get caught. 585 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,119 And that's how I end up... 586 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,119 I always end up getting beat. 587 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,119 And, you know, you think back about your past, 588 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:51,119 and it's just a really nasty nightmare. 589 00:22:51,199 --> 00:22:56,199 The three of you had your entire everything 590 00:22:56,199 --> 00:22:59,199 in your life was in this cult. 591 00:22:59,199 --> 00:23:02,199 So when you left, you were all alone. 592 00:23:02,199 --> 00:23:04,199 It's like, where do you even start? 593 00:23:04,199 --> 00:23:06,199 How do I... You know, where do I sleep? 594 00:23:06,199 --> 00:23:08,199 What do I eat? How do I get clothes? A coat? 595 00:23:08,199 --> 00:23:10,199 I get this a lot in my work, you know. 596 00:23:10,199 --> 00:23:12,199 Well, why didn't you just leave? 597 00:23:12,199 --> 00:23:15,199 And I think the overwhelming fear 598 00:23:15,199 --> 00:23:17,199 that cult members live with, 599 00:23:17,199 --> 00:23:19,199 it's paralyzing. 600 00:23:19,279 --> 00:23:21,279 And a cataclysmic choice with consequences. 601 00:23:21,279 --> 00:23:23,279 Right, right. 602 00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:25,279 Even a nice hippie cult that might look 603 00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:27,279 so nice from the outside, 604 00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:29,279 you're living in fear all the time. 605 00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:35,279 The 12th tribe says, 606 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:37,279 you can come and go as you please. 607 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:39,279 We don't keep anyone here. 608 00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:41,279 It is the biggest lie that they tell, in my opinion, 609 00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:44,279 because I was deathly afraid of walking out that door. 610 00:23:46,279 --> 00:23:48,279 When I was 18 years old, 611 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,359 I was at rock bottom. 612 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,359 I remember standing in front of my parents 613 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,359 and telling them, 614 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,359 I don't know what's out there, 615 00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,359 but I'm gonna go and find out. 616 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,359 I exhaled, and... 617 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,359 I was free. 618 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,359 At least, that's what I thought. 619 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,359 The door was not open. 620 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,359 Even though it was physically open, and I walked out, 621 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,359 I didn't emotionally walk out. I wasn't free. 622 00:24:13,439 --> 00:24:15,439 I exhaled, and... 623 00:24:15,439 --> 00:24:17,439 I was free. 624 00:24:17,439 --> 00:24:19,439 At least, that's what I thought. 625 00:24:21,439 --> 00:24:23,439 It lasted for... 626 00:24:23,439 --> 00:24:25,439 three days. 627 00:24:26,439 --> 00:24:28,439 And then, my older sister, 628 00:24:28,439 --> 00:24:30,439 Shalem, convinced me to go to dinner with her. 629 00:24:30,439 --> 00:24:32,439 So she picked me up, 630 00:24:32,439 --> 00:24:35,439 and there was my uncles, and my aunts, and my dad, 631 00:24:35,439 --> 00:24:37,439 and they said, you're gonna stay with your dad. 632 00:24:37,439 --> 00:24:39,439 You'll get your sanity back. 633 00:24:39,439 --> 00:24:41,439 And I said, I'm not gonna stay with you. 634 00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:43,519 You'll get your sanity back. 635 00:24:44,519 --> 00:24:47,519 He said, if you choose to not live my life, 636 00:24:47,519 --> 00:24:49,519 then you're not my daughter anymore. 637 00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:54,519 My only choice was to run away again. 638 00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:56,519 And the next day, I was gone. 639 00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:00,519 It's the mental control, 640 00:25:00,519 --> 00:25:02,519 the mind control that they have on people 641 00:25:02,519 --> 00:25:04,519 that is so incredibly dangerous. 642 00:25:04,519 --> 00:25:06,519 After leaving my parents, 643 00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:08,519 I was shunned. 644 00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:10,519 Everything that, you know, 645 00:25:10,599 --> 00:25:12,599 reminded my mother of me, 646 00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:14,599 she threw in the garbage after I left. 647 00:25:16,599 --> 00:25:18,599 The three of you, 648 00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:20,599 you all lost family. 649 00:25:20,599 --> 00:25:22,599 How...how...do you ever get over that? 650 00:25:22,599 --> 00:25:24,599 Do you ever get over the shunning 651 00:25:24,599 --> 00:25:27,599 or the disassociating, as others call it? 652 00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:30,599 Does that loss ever finally... 653 00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:32,599 melt? 654 00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:34,599 Please tell me yes. 655 00:25:34,599 --> 00:25:36,599 For me, no. 656 00:25:36,599 --> 00:25:38,599 No. No. 657 00:25:38,679 --> 00:25:40,679 To be treated like you're dead 658 00:25:40,679 --> 00:25:42,679 when you're not? 659 00:25:42,679 --> 00:25:45,679 Thank God my family's on this side with me, 660 00:25:45,679 --> 00:25:48,679 but some of my closest friends are still in. 661 00:25:48,679 --> 00:25:50,679 And I still text them. 662 00:25:50,679 --> 00:25:52,679 And it's in love, and they don't respond, 663 00:25:52,679 --> 00:25:54,679 and that's very painful. 664 00:25:54,679 --> 00:25:56,679 I counted the other day 665 00:25:56,679 --> 00:25:58,679 of people who were at my wedding 666 00:25:58,679 --> 00:26:00,679 who are no longer speaking to me. 667 00:26:00,679 --> 00:26:02,679 There was 12. 668 00:26:02,679 --> 00:26:04,679 No longer speaking to me. 669 00:26:04,679 --> 00:26:06,679 He's not. 670 00:26:06,759 --> 00:26:08,759 They just won't respond to me, 671 00:26:08,759 --> 00:26:10,759 and it's not speaking to me. 672 00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:12,759 It's more just that they've been told 673 00:26:12,759 --> 00:26:14,759 to not engage with us 674 00:26:14,759 --> 00:26:16,759 because we're so suppressive. 675 00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:20,759 I dream about them every night. 676 00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:22,759 We're together again. 677 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:24,759 I don't know if it'll ever happen. I hope it will. 678 00:26:24,759 --> 00:26:26,759 I still hope they'll wake up. 679 00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:28,759 Do you still think of them in that way? 680 00:26:28,759 --> 00:26:30,759 That's the one thing I can say is, after all this time, 681 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:32,759 hope is the one thing I can hang on to. 682 00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:34,759 Mm-hmm. 683 00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:36,839 Do you still hope that they will come out 684 00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:38,839 or that you will be able to have a real relationship? 685 00:26:38,839 --> 00:26:40,839 That I'll be reunited with them. 686 00:26:40,839 --> 00:26:42,839 This is 10 years after I left. 687 00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:44,839 I was walking to my first therapist appointment, 688 00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:46,839 and I passed on Seventh Avenue 689 00:26:46,839 --> 00:26:48,839 the big red letters that say hope. 690 00:26:50,839 --> 00:26:52,839 Did you get some that day? 691 00:26:54,839 --> 00:26:56,839 Yeah. 692 00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:58,839 I took a photo. 693 00:26:58,839 --> 00:27:00,839 I remember for the next three years, 694 00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:02,839 every week I walked 695 00:27:02,919 --> 00:27:04,919 past that sign. 696 00:27:04,919 --> 00:27:06,919 It's probably the most powerful word 697 00:27:06,919 --> 00:27:08,919 in my whole life. 698 00:27:08,919 --> 00:27:10,919 Hope. Hope. 699 00:27:10,919 --> 00:27:12,919 My little sister turns 18 in October. 700 00:27:14,919 --> 00:27:16,919 Is she still in? Yeah. 701 00:27:16,919 --> 00:27:18,919 I haven't seen her since she was four years old. 702 00:27:18,919 --> 00:27:20,919 Oh. 703 00:27:20,919 --> 00:27:22,919 I hope someday 704 00:27:22,919 --> 00:27:24,919 that I can tell her 705 00:27:24,919 --> 00:27:26,919 why I left. 706 00:27:26,919 --> 00:27:28,919 Is there any way to reach her? 707 00:27:28,919 --> 00:27:30,919 Is she totally in hot in communication? 708 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,000 There was a short time where she had an email account 709 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,000 and reached out to me, 710 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,000 but she got caught and they had her shut it down. 711 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,000 What did she ask you or say to you? 712 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,000 She asked me to tell her about my life. 713 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,000 I sent her pictures. 714 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,000 She said she missed me. 715 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,000 I think she wanted to talk to me. 716 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,000 She wanted to connect with me, 717 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,000 but she didn't want my parents to know. 718 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,000 The reason I've kept 719 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,000 that relationship open with her 720 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,000 even through everything we've been through 721 00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,000 is because I hope 722 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:01,079 that she'll, when she does leave, 723 00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:03,079 and I still hope that she will. 724 00:28:05,079 --> 00:28:07,079 You know, she'll be able to reach out to me 725 00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:09,079 and she'll know who to call 726 00:28:09,079 --> 00:28:11,079 and she'll know that I'm there to help 727 00:28:11,079 --> 00:28:13,079 and I'm not angry with her. 728 00:28:13,079 --> 00:28:15,079 I can't change 729 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:17,079 that my family are still members 730 00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:19,079 of the 12 tribes, 731 00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:21,079 but I can change the experience 732 00:28:21,079 --> 00:28:23,079 that everyone has coming out. 733 00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:25,079 Every single person who leaves 734 00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:27,079 gives me a little more hope 735 00:28:27,159 --> 00:28:29,159 that I'm reunited with them. 736 00:28:29,159 --> 00:28:31,159 From what I hear, she's just like me. 737 00:28:31,159 --> 00:28:33,159 And that gives me hope. 738 00:28:33,159 --> 00:28:35,159 But it scares them. 739 00:28:35,159 --> 00:28:37,159 So... 740 00:28:37,159 --> 00:28:39,159 She's an independent thinker. 741 00:28:39,159 --> 00:28:41,159 Certain children have some kind 742 00:28:41,159 --> 00:28:43,159 of inner resilience 743 00:28:43,159 --> 00:28:45,159 that fights through for certain... 744 00:28:45,159 --> 00:28:47,159 For some. 745 00:28:47,159 --> 00:28:49,159 And those are the ones who manage to get away. 746 00:28:49,159 --> 00:28:51,159 Elijah, you've realized 747 00:28:51,159 --> 00:28:53,159 something's wrong here. 748 00:28:53,159 --> 00:28:55,159 That's why you ultimately left 749 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,240 the United Nation of Islam. 750 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,240 Because Shaquante, a friend of his, 751 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,240 had cancer. 752 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,240 Correct. 753 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,240 And while she, this child, was sick 754 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,240 and being forced to work every day, 755 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,240 she was called lazy. 756 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,240 Shaquante begged 757 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,240 to go to the hospital. 758 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,240 And they did not take her. 759 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,240 None of them were qualified 760 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,240 to treat what was going on with her. 761 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,240 She should have been immediately taken 762 00:29:23,319 --> 00:29:25,319 to the hospital. 763 00:29:25,319 --> 00:29:27,319 And it did not happen. 764 00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:29,319 They treated Shaquante with 765 00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:31,319 three baths of Epsom salt, 766 00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:33,319 you know, blended food, 767 00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:35,319 music therapy, 768 00:29:35,319 --> 00:29:37,319 and it got to the point 769 00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:39,319 where her entire 770 00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:41,319 immune system shut down. 771 00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:43,319 The biggest thing that 772 00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:45,319 was, we always tried to avoid 773 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:47,319 was going to the hospital. 774 00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:49,319 If you're following royal talk, 775 00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:51,319 you won't have no real 776 00:29:51,399 --> 00:29:53,399 health situations. 777 00:29:53,399 --> 00:29:55,399 He taught that everybody will live forever. 778 00:29:55,399 --> 00:29:57,399 He's gonna change death. 779 00:29:57,399 --> 00:29:59,399 And for you, that was the breaking point. 780 00:29:59,399 --> 00:30:01,399 Correct. 781 00:30:01,399 --> 00:30:03,399 I'm sorry. 782 00:30:03,399 --> 00:30:05,399 Same pattern. 783 00:30:05,399 --> 00:30:07,399 It was really hard. 784 00:30:09,399 --> 00:30:11,399 The story that royal gives 785 00:30:11,399 --> 00:30:13,399 is that she 786 00:30:13,399 --> 00:30:15,399 wills herself into extreme 787 00:30:15,399 --> 00:30:17,399 illness and she, 788 00:30:17,399 --> 00:30:19,399 by self 789 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,480 conflict, 790 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,480 passes. 791 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,480 Pretty much. 792 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,480 She died 793 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,480 in agony and pain. 794 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,480 And we were lying to her about it. 795 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,480 When I saw Shaquante last, 796 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,480 she was 797 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,480 healthy. 798 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:41,480 And the next time I had seen 799 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,480 Shaquante, 800 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,480 she was 801 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:47,480 ashes. 802 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,480 Sarah, 803 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,480 you talked about all the guilt that you felt. 804 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,480 Recruiting members. 805 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,480 Has it gotten any better? 806 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,480 I think so. 807 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,480 You know, two steps forward, one back, but generally I feel better. 808 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,480 I'm still cleaning up the mess, 809 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,480 helping people get into therapy, 810 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,480 and get back to their life. 811 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:13,480 The PTSD is getting better. 812 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,480 I have spent 813 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,480 so many years promoting and recruiting 814 00:31:17,559 --> 00:31:19,559 for this group. 815 00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:21,559 I feel especially responsible 816 00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:23,559 to make amends with the people that I got in. 817 00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:27,559 Jen Kolbelt was a student of mine. 818 00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:29,559 She came to me and then I enrolled her 819 00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:31,559 into an intensive and she 820 00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:33,559 loved it and wanted to become a coach. 821 00:31:33,559 --> 00:31:35,559 She's somebody who I feel 822 00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:37,559 incredibly guilty about 823 00:31:37,559 --> 00:31:39,559 because I found out after we all left 824 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:41,559 that she was part of the fright experiment. 825 00:31:43,559 --> 00:31:45,559 When it came time, 826 00:31:45,639 --> 00:31:47,639 I trusted the doctor and the next day of 827 00:31:47,639 --> 00:31:49,639 administering it as a doctor and as a friend. 828 00:31:51,639 --> 00:31:53,639 He's got the brainwave machine there 829 00:31:53,639 --> 00:31:55,639 and a TV screen set up. 830 00:31:55,639 --> 00:31:57,639 Then he said, okay, so I'm going to play you some clips 831 00:31:57,639 --> 00:31:59,639 and in between, we'll just 832 00:31:59,639 --> 00:32:01,639 debrief your experience. 833 00:32:01,639 --> 00:32:03,639 But at the time I had no idea 834 00:32:03,639 --> 00:32:05,639 what I was going to witness. 835 00:32:09,639 --> 00:32:11,639 Four of the men reached down 836 00:32:11,639 --> 00:32:13,639 to the women on their knees 837 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,200 and they pulled out their machete and just cut their heads off. 838 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,200 It was so horrific. 839 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,200 I still think I have some 840 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,200 PTSD stuff. 841 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,200 I devoted 842 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,200 most of my income 843 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,200 to this and when I first left, 844 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,200 I had pretty much nothing. 845 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,200 You weren't treated well. 846 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,200 Not just by the upper ranks, 847 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,200 but by me. 848 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,200 I'm so sorry. 849 00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:44,759 But you don't feel like 850 00:32:44,759 --> 00:32:46,759 this guilt is what's driving you. 851 00:32:46,759 --> 00:32:48,759 It's okay to just take care of yourself. 852 00:32:48,759 --> 00:32:50,759 Yeah. I don't think it's what's 853 00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:52,759 driving me as more as it's just the right 854 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:54,759 thing to do, given the level of 855 00:32:54,759 --> 00:32:56,759 recruitment that I participated in. 856 00:32:56,759 --> 00:32:58,759 It's like I'm just cleaning it up. 857 00:32:58,759 --> 00:33:00,759 In 2011, 858 00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:02,759 when I made up my mind that I was going to leave, 859 00:33:02,759 --> 00:33:06,759 I found myself compromising with my wife at the time 860 00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:08,759 because she wanted to stay. 861 00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:10,759 We'd just gotten pregnant. 862 00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:12,759 It was a possibility I wasn't going to see her, 863 00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:14,759 even my son. 864 00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:16,759 But I still 865 00:33:16,759 --> 00:33:18,759 decided I was going to leave. 866 00:33:18,759 --> 00:33:20,759 And 867 00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:22,759 I had got a message 868 00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:24,759 from the cult leader that 869 00:33:24,759 --> 00:33:26,759 if I continued to say things, 870 00:33:26,759 --> 00:33:28,759 that my son would be born retarded. 871 00:33:28,759 --> 00:33:30,759 What? 872 00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:32,759 And 873 00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:34,759 I knew 874 00:33:34,759 --> 00:33:36,759 at that point 875 00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:38,759 that was done. 876 00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:40,759 Well, now you and Sarah 877 00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:42,759 are both cooperating with authorities. 878 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:44,759 Correct. 879 00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:46,759 The FBI has launched investigations into both 880 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:48,759 Nexium and United Nations of Islam. 881 00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:50,759 You guys are wielding some 882 00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:52,759 heavy duty power right now. 883 00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:54,759 Keith Raniere faces prison time 884 00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:56,759 because people like Sarah 885 00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:58,759 have told their story. 886 00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:04,759 We're going to begin though tonight with some 887 00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:06,759 breaking news involving Nexium. 888 00:34:06,759 --> 00:34:08,760 An alleged sex cult has been arrested in Mexico. 889 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,760 Keith Raniere 890 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,760 investigators found Raniere hiding in a villa with several 891 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,760 women in the popular Mexican resort 892 00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:16,760 town of Puerto Vallarta. 893 00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,760 And there is an investigation underway 894 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:20,760 in United Nations of Islam right now 895 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,760 because Eli went and told 896 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,760 everything he knew to these FBI 897 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,760 agents. You are, I mean 898 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,760 that's potent. 899 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,760 That's not easy to do that by any means. 900 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,760 Are we ready 901 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,760 to rock and roll? 902 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,760 I'm feeling very excited 903 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,760 about the FBI meeting because 904 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,760 we get to finally 905 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,760 get our story out 906 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,760 to the authorities. 907 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,760 Everyone believes 908 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:52,760 whatever they was told but 909 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,760 it's a select few of us who really know 910 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:56,760 what happened. 911 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,760 And it's many others 912 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,760 who 913 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,760 died or 914 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:04,760 lost their parents. 915 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,760 And the truth about it never came out. 916 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:10,760 And I'm hoping that 917 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:12,760 the agents 918 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,760 that they are the 919 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,760 Superman that we've been waiting on 920 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,760 to help. 921 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,760 Do you think that 922 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,760 your going to authorities 923 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,760 will lead to 924 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,760 more people inside United Nations 925 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:30,760 of Islam speaking out either publicly 926 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:32,760 or to authorities? I hope so. 927 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,760 If it's 928 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,760 especially the ones who 929 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:38,760 were ex-members. 930 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,760 Who've already gotten out and don't have to do that big painful 931 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,760 stuff. That's why it has not 932 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,760 been exposed 933 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,760 because everyone wants to pretend 934 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,760 like it didn't happen. You know 935 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:50,760 they're embarrassed and want to talk about it. 936 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:52,760 They're afraid. Yeah, afraid. 937 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,760 I have hopes 938 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,760 that they do come forward. 939 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,760 I really do. And Sarah, we were the first 940 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,760 from your group to come out, right? 941 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:02,760 To speak out publicly. 942 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,760 Yeah. The 943 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:06,760 Times piece basically brought people out 944 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,760 who recognized 945 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,760 from what I understand them seeing it in the paper 946 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,760 help them figure out what was going on to them 947 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,760 and they got out. And then 948 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,760 the rest is history. 949 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:18,760 The fact that you went to 950 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,760 the FBI is a huge statement 951 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,760 of courage and 952 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,760 strength. I mean. Thank you. 953 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,760 You're saving people's lives and 954 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:28,760 you don't even know it yet. 955 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,760 I appreciate that. 956 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:32,760 Honestly, that's all you can do at this point, right? 957 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,760 It's where the healing starts. 958 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,760 Is by helping others? Yes. 959 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,760 You know that means more 960 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,760 to me than anything because I know what it feels like 961 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,760 to be alone and to walk away 962 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,760 from that. And live alone. 963 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,760 And have nobody. 964 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:48,760 I was just going to say that's why I started my 965 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,760 organization. It was almost 966 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,760 a way to liberate myself 967 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:54,760 above anything else and to be able 968 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,760 to give myself some sort of 969 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:58,760 affirmation that what I did was worth it. 970 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,760 Your organization is helping people. 971 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:02,760 You know, not only have the courage 972 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,760 but just the means. Like where do I go? 973 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,760 How do I get there? 974 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,760 What do I do when I get there? What I did 975 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,760 was for me. But if I can give to someone 976 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,760 else and help them go through that healing 977 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,760 process and recover and have a 978 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,760 chance, that's really what makes 979 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:18,760 it worth it. 980 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:20,760 I'm curious, especially for 981 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:22,760 the three of you who are in religious 982 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,760 cults. Where you are 983 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:26,760 spiritually today. 984 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,760 Do you practice any sort of 985 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:30,760 religion? 986 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:36,760 I'm curious, especially for the 987 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,760 three of you who are in religious 988 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,760 cults. Where you are 989 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,760 spiritually today. 990 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,760 Do you practice any sort of religion? 991 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,760 I would rather 992 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:50,760 live under a bridge. 993 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,760 With nothing 994 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:54,760 and a river view than to ever walk 995 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:56,760 back into one of the buildings that I spent 996 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,760 my life in. 997 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,760 So no religion of any kind? 998 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:02,760 I believe there's something 999 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,760 bigger than me. I feel 1000 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:06,760 an energy. I know there's something there. 1001 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,760 I'm not opposed to it one day. 1002 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,760 I don't know. 1003 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,760 There's a trust issue for me 1004 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:18,760 at this point. 1005 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,760 So you believe in a higher power. 1006 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:22,760 So recognize religion is not an option 1007 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:24,760 for you? No. I think there's ten thousand 1008 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,760 religions and ten thousand ways to make money. 1009 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:28,760 Eli? 1010 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,760 I'm at a place 1011 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,760 in my life. 1012 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:36,760 When I go home, I'm in so much peace 1013 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,760 with my children. 1014 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,760 With my wife. 1015 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,760 I try to seize the moment 1016 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:46,760 of what I have now. 1017 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,760 And focus on that. 1018 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,760 So no, I haven't. 1019 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,760 Nor do I judge anyone else who may 1020 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,760 be a part of an 1021 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:56,760 organized religion. 1022 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,760 I just appreciate 1023 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,760 the breaths I take every day. 1024 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,760 It's not for me. 1025 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,760 What about you, Sammy? 1026 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:06,760 At this point in my life, I don't 1027 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,760 see that religion is something 1028 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:10,760 I really need to guide me. 1029 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,760 I'm not opposed to it. 1030 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,760 I believe that I'm here to help 1031 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:18,760 people, to inspire people. 1032 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,760 And if I live my life honest, 1033 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,760 good, and wholesome, and do the 1034 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,760 best I possibly can, 1035 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:26,760 I'm happy with that. 1036 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,760 If there's more to life and I missed it, 1037 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:30,760 then so be it. But at least I did 1038 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,760 the best that I could and didn't hurt anyone in the 1039 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,760 process. And I try 1040 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,760 to live my life like that. 1041 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:38,760 Sounds like a great way to live your life. 1042 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:40,760 We didn't have God in it, 1043 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,760 but I relate to that in the sense that 1044 00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,760 a large part of my last nine months is going 1045 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,760 to the people that I tried to recruit and say, 1046 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,760 I'm sorry. I thought it was really 1047 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,760 good. It turns out you were right. 1048 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,760 And I hope we can be normal friends 1049 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,760 now. And we are. And people are so forgiving. 1050 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,760 They want us back. They want 1051 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,760 us back in the normal world. 1052 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,760 They're just happy that we're here. 1053 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,760 They're happy that we woke up, is what it seems 1054 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,760 to be. 1055 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,760 I'm really focusing on building new friendships 1056 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,760 that are healthy and not 1057 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,760 based in this history. 1058 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,760 When there's a hard day with 1059 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,760 my friends that have left and we hit 1060 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,760 up against something, we always just say, wait, good 1061 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,760 news is we're free. That's the 1062 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:24,760 good news. We're out. And we're not alone. 1063 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:26,760 We're not alone. We were. 1064 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:28,760 But we're not alone anymore. 1065 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:30,760 That's gotta be a good 1066 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,760 feeling. 1067 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,760 I hope this is the beginning of a lot more 1068 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,760 healing and togetherness and coming 1069 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,760 together in a way that I don't think 1070 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:40,760 the world has ever seen because 1071 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:42,760 this is pretty new. 1072 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,760 This type of exposure, I think, about 1073 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:46,760 cults at this level. 1074 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:48,760 Well, thank you. 1075 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,760 All of you. 1076 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:52,760 So much. You've been 1077 00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:54,760 incredible. And you've told your 1078 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:56,760 stories with a great deal of dignity. 1079 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:58,760 And I can't thank 1080 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,760 you enough for trusting us and telling 1081 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,760 us everything you have. 1082 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,760 Alright, thank you so much. 1083 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,760 I'm so blessed. I'm so lucky 1084 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,760 to be on this side. 1085 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,760 Life is going to get better. 1086 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,760 But there is work. 1087 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,760 We're all out here trying 1088 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,760 to stop it. 1089 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,760 Today is the beginning of bringing 1090 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,760 an end to the pain 1091 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,760 that's happened. 1092 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,760 I just really hope that things change. 1093 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,760 And this is the first step towards that. 1094 00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:40,760 Thank you.