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...

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...

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No toys, no play, no childhood.

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All in the name of God.

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A&E investigates the 12 tribes.

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How old were you when you first realized

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something's wrong here?

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...

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When we think about harmful cults,

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we don't think about our next-door neighbors.

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People see these nice people who are very
hospitable,

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but what they don't see is what happens
behind closed doors.

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The 12 tribes believed staunchly in corporal
punishment.

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How often did that happen?

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On a daily basis.

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The very foundation of the community was

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based on obedience and submission.

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They've hurt so many people,

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and when they find out what I'm doing,

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they will shut down contact with my family.

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And I still feel like I'm not free.

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...

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...

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...

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...

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...

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...

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...

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My grandparents were normal, middle-class
American people,

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but they had become disillusioned with their
local church,

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and they wanted to be part of something
different,

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and that's really what attracted them to the
12 tribes.

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We lived all together, 50 to 60 people in a
house,

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living exactly word for word what it said in
the Bible.

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You couldn't show skin below your collarbone.

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You couldn't wear a shirt that didn't cover
up to your elbows.

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I had to part my hair down the middle.

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I had to wear it in a low braid or twist it
in a bun,

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and that was even considered borderline.

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We were told to abide by the rules of the
leader has set,

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no matter what.

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When you literally live every step of your
life

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to please someone else, it's a scary thing.

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...

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...

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...

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This is what we live for.

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It's what we breathe for.

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We want His kingdom to come, and His will be
done.

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We want to carry out His will upon the earth.

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Spriggs is a charismatic individual who was
vibrant.

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He would speak about the Scriptures in a way

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that a lot of the young people had never
heard them spoken about

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in the churches that they had grown up in or
gone to.

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It is a very appealing belief system,
lifestyle, for young people.

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A lot of it is in line with what would be
considered

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historic Christianity.

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It's where he deviates that it becomes so
dangerous.

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I mean, I was struck by Gene Spriggs, you
know,

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the leader of 12 tribes claimed Martin Luther
King

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was filled with the evil spirit.

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Yes.

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You know, homosexual behavior is immoral and
mortally dangerous.

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I mean, I'm sure they're not telling
everybody that

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at the Friday night feast.

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No, absolutely not.

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Those are written in teachings, and usually
it's many months

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or even years later that people start to
realize.

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And at that point, their red flags and their
critical thinking skills

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has been so diminished that they don't see
anything wrong with it anymore,

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because they see the bigger picture, or they
think they see the bigger picture,

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of purifying themselves for the purpose that
God has created them for.

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So it becomes all about the agenda and not
the beliefs.

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And are the teachings as racist and
homophobic

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as these statements from the group's leader?

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Absolutely. Even worse.

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Spriggs started giving more and more
off-the-wall teachings

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when you look at them.

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That which deals with homosexuality,

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the wearing of cotton against one's skin,

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women having head coverings and wearing long
soos pants,

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men rolling up their pant legs at this point.

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All of this became law.

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He believed that as he was reading the Old
Testament in particular,

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that he was gaining insight into God's
purpose for his life.

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And the message is that Yeshua, Jesus,

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will not return until the 12 tribes of Israel

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are geographically established on the face of
the earth.

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Once that is done, then they will be able to
produce

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a pure 12,000 individuals from each tribe

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who will be able to usher in the Kingdom of
God.

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It's an evil world, and our Father has saved
us

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out from this wicked and perverse,

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this miscreant generation.

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And here we are in a secure, wonderful place

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where we can raise our children in peace.

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What were you told in terms of the religious
purpose of 12 tribes?

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Like, what were you indoctrinated?

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We were indoctrinated by the 12 tribes.

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What were you indoctrinated with?

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We were God's chosen people.

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We were going to bring in the end times.

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We were going to be the only chosen people

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that God would save when he destroyed the
earth.

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Does anybody ever, in the whole time you were
part of this cult,

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did anybody ever say, I don't agree with
that?

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There have been times, absolutely, where
people disagreed or asked questions,

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and those people were shunned.

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They were what we...

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Escorted out? I mean, what?

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Absolutely, and they were considered dead.

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What happens in these groups,

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and seemingly what happened in 12 tribes,

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is a family member who departs, the departing
person, is dead to them.

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And you can ask the people who haven't
rebelled against

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what the word of God teaches,

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you can ask the people who are here, you
know,

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and you can see what we actually do and what
we believe,

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but you can't believe there were those who
have left this place

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because of their rebellion.

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Hey!

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How are you? Good, how are you?

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Good, good to see you. You too.

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Would you like some tea? I would love a cup
of tea.

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Ashley Allen is actually a woman I knew as a
child.

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We grew up together in the 12 tribes.

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The first thing I have to show you are the
readers.

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Okay, yes. Let's start with all the goodies.

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Okay, all right.

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These weren't allowed books, so these were
our storybooks as children.

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And they're all stories just about the
community, about community life.

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Yeah.

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I'm often asked what life was like growing up
in the 12 tribes.

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We didn't have outside music or television.

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We never went to outside doctors.

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We never went to public school.

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The beliefs are there all the time.

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They're all around you, and it's constant.

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In the 12 tribes, children are the future.

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They're the set of expectations of children
in the 12 tribes.

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We were always expected to be the perfect
embodiment of the 12 tribes.

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So everything is centered around creating the
next perfect generation.

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Without the perfect generation,

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we're not going to be able to bring about the
second coming of Yahshua.

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Typical child behavior, things like not
raising our hand at the dinner table

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when we needed to get up and go to the
bathroom

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or not asking for seconds without being
offered,

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not finishing our food, we were spanked for.

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The 12 tribes believed staunchly in corporal
punishment

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for the most innocuous of offenses.

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They claimed they were falling up to the
highest level

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by not filing a particular biblical
scripture.

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Proverbs 13 and 24?

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If you spare the rod for your child, then you
hate them.

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If you love your child, you will not spare
the rod from them.

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So this combination about filing what they
believe is biblical teachings

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in the context of mixing up love and hate

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can be emotionally, psychologically very
damaging to the kid.

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I was a journalist in Germany who went
undercover into a 12 tribes commune

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and lived there for a week or so

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and was able to record several instances of
very small children.

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Yes.

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I think 80 instances, actually,

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of these tiny kids being taken by adults into
a darkened corner and being whipped.

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Elizabeth, that was the first time that I
know there was actual documentation

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beyond accounts and reports.

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People saw it on tape.

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The people like Sammy who have been saying
this is happening

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and then you go to the 12 tribes leadership
and they say, oh, no, it's just...

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This is not abusive and overly aggressive
paddling and beating and spanking.

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We discipline with love.

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We discipline with love.

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And that videotape didn't show discipline
with love.

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It wasn't just the 3- to 13-year-old children
that were punished either.

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There were babies as young as 6 months old

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that were expected to not cry during the
service.

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It was all in the name of, you know,
perfecting them.

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They were God's chosen people, so they had to
be perfect.

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We use sound wisdom and discretion.

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We use a small balloon stick that's thin and
flexible

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and we spank children on the hand or the
bottom to teach them respect.

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In the 12 tribes, any adult can discipline
any child at any time

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without parental permission and without ever
informing the parents.

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Whenever there has been a problem with child
discipline,

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it has been because the parents didn't obey

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and follow the teachings of the community.

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Their teachings go pretty far outside of

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what is acceptable for corporal punishment.

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There were many, many occasions on which I
was beaten for 4 hours at a time.

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I witnessed some being beaten as long as 8
hours...

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...till they bled.

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12 tribes compounded in Vermont was raided by
local authorities.

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More than 100 children were taken into
protective custody.

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The state feared the children were being
badly beaten

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as part of the strict discipline imposed by
church parents.

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And that's just what the state is trying to
do,

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prosecute if there is evidence of child
abuse.

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the most violent and violent in the world.

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It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

201
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It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

202
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,000
It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

203
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,000
It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

204
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,000
It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

205
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It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

206
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,000
It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

207
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,000
It has been the most violent and violent in
the world.

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They didn't make it legal because they didn't
have

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00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,000
words for every child with their legal name
on it.

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How did it do with no birth records and
records of any kind?

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Right, but nobody knows whose name is who.

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Everyone goes by one Hebrew name that's given
to them

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00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,000
when they join the community. No one knows
legal names.

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00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,000
And we moved around so much that there was
never a legal address.

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It's common with these groups.

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Outside officials are, in many cases, enemies
of Satan.

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00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,000
And they're out to destroy God's work.

218
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,000
So lying to an outside official is acceptable

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00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,000
if the lie is in the context of doing what's
best for God.

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What do they lie about?

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00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,000
Well, the big issue, of course, is the
severity of the corporal punishment.

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This is taken a step further where other
adults,

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00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:25,000
not your parents, are perfectly allowed to
paddle a child,

224
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to hit a child. How often did that happen?

225
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On a daily basis.

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It was part of being a member.

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The parents relinquish their ability to have
any say in their child's rearing.

228
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:40,000
So are children communal property?

229
00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:44,000
Absolutely. The most difficult aspect of it
for me

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was the feeling of vulnerability and
violation.

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And without being in the community, without
being saved in prayer,

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that I was worthless.

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How long?

234
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Did I feel that way? Yeah.

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My whole life. It's something I still work...

236
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I'm still working to, you know, recover from
and heal.

237
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Self-esteem is probably one of my...

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my biggest struggles.

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They tried to break you.

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I couldn't protect myself.

241
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And there was no one else there to protect
me.

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I don't know if you have anything like this,
like a journal from back then.

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This is when I was 17, and I'm saying, God,
where are you?

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I wrote, everyone knows me as this bad,
insane, stupid person,

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and they think I'm trash.

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I might as well go where all the other trash
goes,

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because all I have to give is garbage.

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It's devastating.

249
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I was seven years old when I first decided
that I wanted to leave.

250
00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:00,000
My father played guitar, and he was one of
the musicians for the services that we had,

251
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,000
which were every morning and every evening.

252
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:07,000
He had noticed that someone had been fooling
around with his guitar,

253
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:12,000
and he kept asking, and this little boy
stepped forward and said, I saw her do it.

254
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,000
I remember thinking, why would he say that
about me?

255
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,000
You know, I would... I know better than that.

256
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,000
And, you know, I'm standing in front of 150
people,

257
00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,000
and my parents asked me in front of everyone,
did you do it?

258
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,000
And I said, no, I didn't do that. I would
never do that.

259
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,000
And they said, you're lying. Go to your room.

260
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:38,000
For the next seven days, I was given one meal
a day,

261
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,000
and I couldn't leave my bed.

262
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,000
And every day, a different adult would bring
me a plate of food for dinner,

263
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,000
and they would say to me, why don't you just
tell the truth?

264
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,000
I remember praying every day.

265
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,000
Saying, God, why can't you just tell them?

266
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,000
Why can't you just tell them I am...

267
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,000
I am telling the truth?

268
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,000
And it just... I didn't understand.

269
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,000
They would tell me God spoke to them.

270
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,000
God spoke to me today, and he told me this.

271
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,000
So I said to myself,

272
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,000
they're all full of s***.

273
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,000
If he really... if they really did hear from
God, he would tell them.

274
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,000
And after a week, I said, it's all a joke.

275
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,000
After that week, I said, I'm sorry.

276
00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:56,000
After that, I said to myself, as soon as I
was old enough, I was out.

277
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,000
When I was 18 years old, I was at rock
bottom.

278
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:08,000
I was just tired of pretending like I was
happy, pretending like I believed in it.

279
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,000
It was October 17, 2005.

280
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:20,000
I remember standing in front of my parents
and my uncles and aunts

281
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,000
and telling them, I don't know what's out
there,

282
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,000
but I'm going to go and find out.

283
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:32,000
And my father said, we decided that you're
going to come live with your Ima and I

284
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,000
until you get your sanity back.

285
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,000
That night, my parents wouldn't let me sleep
in my bedroom.

286
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,000
They made me sleep on the floor in their room

287
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,000
because they were afraid that I would sneak
out in the middle of the night

288
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:43,000
when everyone was sleeping.

289
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,000
The next morning, my mom had a really bad
headache,

290
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,000
so she went to lay down for a nap,

291
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:53,000
and my father left the house with my little
brother and sister.

292
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,000
I remember hugging and kissing them both.

293
00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,000
I took my little sister by the head, and I
said, this is for you.

294
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,000
And that was the last time I saw her.

295
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,000
I called my third cousins.

296
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:12,000
I had met them once, and they were my only
lifeline.

297
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,000
Their daughter answered the phone.

298
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,000
She said, I can be there by five.

299
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000
So I knew there was a coffee shop next to,
like, the town commons,

300
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,000
so I said to her, I said, meet me in front.

301
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,000
And I picked up my backpack and my coat,

302
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,000
and I tiptoed out the front door and closed
it as quietly as I could.

303
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,000
And I started to walk.

304
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,000
And then I started to run.

305
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,000
I remember hearing in my head my mom yelling
my name,

306
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,000
and I could hear her heart breaking.

307
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,000
I got to where I was supposed to meet my
cousin,

308
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,000
and I saw her car, and I ran and jumped in
it.

309
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,000
I exhaled, and I was free.

310
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,000
At least that's what I thought.

311
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,000
It lasted for three days.

312
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,000
And then my older sister, Shalem, convinced
me to go to dinner with her.

313
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,000
She was my sister. I trusted her.

314
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,000
So she picked me up.

315
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,000
So I said, where are we going?

316
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,000
And she said, your father wants to see you.

317
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,000
And I said, I don't want to see him.

318
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,000
I have nothing to say to him right now.

319
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,000
When I'm ready, I'll let you know.

320
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,000
I said, I don't want to see him.

321
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,000
I have nothing to say to him right now.

322
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,000
When I'm ready, I'll see him.

323
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,000
And they said, it's not an option.

324
00:20:54,000 --> 00:21:00,000
We started to get further and further away
from any buildings or lights or anything,

325
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,000
and we started down a dirt road, and it was
getting dark out.

326
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,000
We pulled up.

327
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,000
I saw through the windows into the living
room,

328
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,000
and there was my uncles and my aunts and my
dad,

329
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,000
and they were all just sitting around waiting
for me.

330
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,000
I was so scared.

331
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,000
Because I had done something really bad in
their mind,

332
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,000
and I turned and I ran, and I realized I
didn't know where I was.

333
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,000
There's nowhere to go.

334
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,000
They came outside, and they said,

335
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,000
you're going to stay with your dad.

336
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,000
You'll get your sanity back.

337
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,000
You'll learn that this is where you belong.

338
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:55,000
And we stayed in this cottage for two months.

339
00:21:55,000 --> 00:22:00,000
We would sit and we would talk, and we would
fight, and he would cry,

340
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,000
and he would just say, the world is an evil
place,

341
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:08,000
and I just would get more and more angry with
him.

342
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,000
How could he say that? It's not true.

343
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,000
I believe there is something else good out
there.

344
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:19,000
It felt so good to say how I felt, to just be
honest.

345
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000
And he had written me a letter.

346
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,000
In the letter, he talks about how I was three
years old,

347
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,000
and I was very sick.

348
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,000
I was laying so still, he thought I wasn't
breathing anymore.

349
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,000
And then he goes on in the next paragraph,

350
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,000
and he says, I know and realize now that it
would have been better

351
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,000
for you to have died on that night...

352
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:54,000
...not so long ago than for you to be doing
what you're doing today,

353
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,000
for you have aligned yourself with the evil
one.

354
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,000
He disowned me.

355
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,000
He said, if you choose to not live my life,

356
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:09,000
then you're not my daughter anymore.

357
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,000
And it was that simple for him.

358
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,000
My only choice was to run away again.

359
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,000
And the next day I was gone.

360
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,000
I didn't waste a second.

361
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,000
When I left, I separated myself completely
from that life.

362
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,000
I cut my hair, I changed my name.

363
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,000
I changed every single bit about who I was.

364
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:38,000
I turned my back on that life, and I felt
alone so often.

365
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,000
What was your assumed Hebrew name?

366
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,000
Batakh Yakara.

367
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,000
You can see why I changed my name.

368
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,000
What are some of the things silly or
innocuous

369
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,000
that you remember from those first days,
weeks, and months

370
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,000
in the real world?

371
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:01,000
Lipstick.

372
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Lipstick.

373
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,000
That was a big thing for me.

374
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,000
I didn't really know how to do my makeup,

375
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:12,000
and I just had this little infatuation with
being able to put color on my lips,

376
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,000
and I felt like I was prettier.

377
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,000
Shaving.

378
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,000
Shaving.

379
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,000
That was a really big one.

380
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,000
We weren't allowed to shave, so I remember
going to work,

381
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,000
and there was two girls, they were college
students,

382
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,000
they were working in the back with me.

383
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,000
And I asked them how to get rid of these
little red bumps on my legs

384
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,000
from I keep getting them after I shave.

385
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,000
And they're like, oh, you mean razor burn?

386
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,000
I'm like, oh, there's a word for it.

387
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,000
There's a term for it.

388
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:39,000
You had never learned any of that.

389
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:45,000
How many family members did you cut yourself
off from that day by running?

390
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,000
40, 50.

391
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,000
50 family members.

392
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,000
And the rules were what?

393
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,000
You were now shunned?

394
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,000
I was disowned.

395
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,000
I wasn't part of the family anymore.

396
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,000
I wasn't welcome there.

397
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000
13 years later, I still haven't seen my
little brother and sister.

398
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,000
When someone leaves the 12 tribes,

399
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,000
everyone is told they're not allowed to speak
to them,

400
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,000
to associate with them.

401
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:21,000
It's a method of shunning.

402
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,000
I am the one who chose to turn my back on
God.

403
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:29,000
Therefore, I am to be rejected.

404
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,000
He was eight the last time I saw him.

405
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,000
He's 21 now.

406
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,000
Oh, my gosh.

407
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,000
Let's see.

408
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000
My oldest sister, Shalem, you probably
remember her.

409
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,000
Yeah.

410
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,000
My older sister has been a little bit more
receptive to seeing me,

411
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,000
which is great, since no one else in my
family really is.

412
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Considering what we've been through in terms
of our relationship with each other

413
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,000
over the years, we have as good of a
relationship as we possibly can.

414
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:58,000
She's always treated me as much as she could
as a sister.

415
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:03,000
She tries as best as she can to not
completely forget about me.

416
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,000
She's the only one in my family who does
that.

417
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,000
In the 12 tribes, that's rare.

418
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,000
It's really rare.

419
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,000
So everyone in my family, except for my older
brother,

420
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,000
everyone's still there.

421
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000
Such a shame.

422
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:24,000
And that's something that's really hard for
me to digest, you know?

423
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:25,000
Yeah.

424
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,000
I still have hung on to this hope for the
last 13 years almost

425
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,000
that one day I'll get a call from my
siblings,

426
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000
and they'll say, I need your help.

427
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,000
I want to get out.

428
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,000
And that's what keeps me going.

429
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,000
Chattanooga is where it all started.

430
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,000
Yeah.

431
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,000
It's such a significant place, you know?

432
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000
Just always growing up and hearing about the
original Chattanooga community.

433
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,000
The history there.

434
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,000
Yeah, just the history.

435
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,000
I can't change that the 12 tribes exists.

436
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,000
I can't change what they've done to my
family.

437
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:06,000
But I want to see what's going on in the 12
tribes today.

438
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,000
I want to understand what my family has been
through.

439
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,000
You know, since I've been gone, what's
changed?

440
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,000
What's the feeling like going there and
seeing people?

441
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,000
You know?

442
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,000
I don't interact with them at all now.

443
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,000
So seeing what's going on there today...

444
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Yeah.

445
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000
...is going to be an interesting experience.

446
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,000
Ed Wiseman generally considered the group
second in command

447
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000
to founder and apostle Eugene Albert Springs.

448
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,000
Jesus Christ himself established that,

449
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,000
and he gave authority to the church to be
that lie.

450
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,000
The word is clear that you have to obey the
word.

451
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,000
The word is clear that you have to obey what
you believe

452
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,000
and surrender your life to obedience to the
word of God.

453
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,000
Eddie Wiseman, tell me about him.

454
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000
He's an original when it comes to...

455
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,000
An original member.

456
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,000
An original member.

457
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,000
They call them the Nucleus.

458
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,000
It's like a group of the original members...

459
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,000
Mm-hmm.

460
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,000
...who have throughout, you know, the history
of the group,

461
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,000
filled leadership roles.

462
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,000
He worked very closely with, you know,

463
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,000
sprigs as, you know, right-hand man kind of
thing.

464
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,000
Someone to fear?

465
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Someone to fear, absolutely.

466
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,000
Someone who could enforce the rules.

467
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,000
So this is it, huh?

468
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:45,000
Yep.

469
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,000
This is university housing, probably?

470
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,000
Yep. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

471
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,000
It's all university, all around it.

472
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,000
The Yellow Deli restaurants are used as a
tool to recruit people.

473
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,000
The location of the Chattanooga Yellow Deli
is on the campus

474
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,000
for the University of Tennessee,

475
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:19,000
where there are young, receptive youth and
young adults

476
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,000
that are open to different ideas,

477
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,000
and they're searching for answers.

478
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,000
You know, a lot of them are looking for
certain fulfillments,

479
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,000
and it is put there as a place to recruit.

480
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,000
There's no question about that.

481
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,000
Yay!

482
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,000
You made it. Yep. Good to see you.

483
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,000
Good to see you, too. Thanks for coming.

484
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,000
I'm Roger Arnold.

485
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,000
I am a former member of the Twelve Tribes.

486
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,000
The appeal of the Twelve Tribes was they
offered the opportunity

487
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:56,000
to live 24-7, 365, in Christian community.

488
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,000
And yet, at the same time, there was a lot of
darkness that was underneath

489
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000
the constant requirements of submission and
obedience.

490
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:08,000
And it's a very patriarchal, hierarchical
system

491
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:14,000
that gave a lot of emphasis on authority and
the use of authority.

492
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:21,000
A lot of elders took that as a total license
to become tyrants.

493
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:27,000
And that shift began to see people leaving
the community.

494
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,000
So is this your first time, too? Yeah.

495
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,000
All right. First for both of us. Yep.

496
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,000
OMG.

497
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,000
Three. Three, please.

498
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,000
You know, people see these nice people who
are very hospitable

499
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,000
and they have great food and they, you know,
welcome people into their restaurant.

500
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:57,000
But what they don't see is what happens
behind closed doors.

501
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,000
Hey, how's it going?

502
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
I just wanted to know what the deal was. I've
seen you all around.

503
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,000
I just wanted to let you know, I've really
used to seeing Aaron.

504
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,000
I've heard some negative stuff about these
guys,

505
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:20,000
but these guys are really cool. Oh, yeah?

506
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,000
Yeah, yeah. They love you. They're kind to
you.

507
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,000
They treat you like human beings, as other
people don't.

508
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,000
Are you a member of their organization? Do
you work here?

509
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,000
Have you been thinking about it? I don't
know, yeah.

510
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,000
I'm just kind of new and freshman.

511
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,000
With the 12 tribes, cafes are like, you know,
the Venus flytrap

512
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,000
where people are sucked in.

513
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,000
Thanks.

514
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,000
Can I ask you a random question?

515
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,000
I think at some point in my life I lived with
you.

516
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,000
Your name was Susan, right? Yeah.

517
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,000
Yes. Do you remember me at all?

518
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,000
What's your name? It used to be Batak.

519
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,000
Brasa. Oh, my goodness.

520
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,000
Rochor and Rooster. Oh, my goodness.

521
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,000
Wanted to say hello.

522
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,000
It was a long time ago. Yeah, it's been a
long time.

523
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,000
But it's nice to see your face again.

524
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,000
You too.

525
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:18,000
I feel bad. I really like there's a sort of
pity that I have.

526
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,000
Hi, how's it going? You're the main guy?

527
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:31,000
I'm the main guy, yeah. How are you?

528
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,000
And what's your name? My name's Alex.

529
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,000
Who are you? Alex? Yeah.

530
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:36,000
Now I'm a member of the 12 tribes.

531
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,000
I just want to know what you're doing,
because you're...

532
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,000
We're doing a documentary about various
different faiths

533
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,000
and movements and organizations and stuff
like that.

534
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,000
What's happening? Who is that?

535
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
But I'd love to set up an interview with you
if you'd like.

536
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:56,000
What's your name?

537
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,000
Eddie Wiseman. Eddie Wiseman?

538
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000
The Eddie Wiseman? He's here?

539
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,000
He's sitting right there talking to Alex.

540
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,000
He is the number two person.

541
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,000
Eddie, would you like to set up an interview?

542
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,000
Of course not.

543
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:17,000
The story that we have to tell is on our
website.

544
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,000
Correct me if I'm wrong.

545
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,000
Do you believe in corporal punishment of
children?

546
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,000
Corporal discipline, yeah.

547
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,000
Corporal discipline.

548
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,000
To the point of severe bruising?

549
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:27,000
No.

550
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,000
To the point of severe bruising?

551
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,000
No.

552
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,000
To the point of severe bruising?

553
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:33,000
No.

554
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,000
To the point of severe bruising?

555
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,000
No.

556
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,000
To the point of severe bruising?

557
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,000
No.

558
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,000
Of stuff like that happening though?

559
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,000
Not in recent times.

560
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,000
Every religion, they remember who do criminal
things.

561
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,000
Sure.

562
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:49,000
We stand by everything we say.

563
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,000
Can I? Oh, sorry.

564
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,000
Do you think they knew that? Oh.

565
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,000
I don't think they caught on that I was
there.

566
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,000
I haven't seen them in over a decade.

567
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,000
But we told them in the...

568
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,000
Right.

569
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,000
...cafe.

570
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:13,000
I told one person who I was.

571
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,000
News travels fast in the community, so...

572
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,000
She could have said, oh, well, it was
so-and-so, you know?

573
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,000
And somebody watched us enough to know how
far down the road we went

574
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,000
that they knew to come into that parking lot.

575
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,000
Right.

576
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,000
I just hate that it always feels like it has
to be a confrontation.

577
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,000
Right.

578
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,000
Why can't it be a conversation?

579
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,000
Why can't it just be a discussion?

580
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,000
Seeing Eddie Wiseman and his wife, Jean
Swanko, in the parking lot,

581
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,000
it's a scary thing.

582
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,000
You know, it was a brief encounter,

583
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,000
but when they find out what I'm doing,

584
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,000
they will shut down contact with my family.

585
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,000
That's how they protect themselves,

586
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,000
is they lash out at people who come against
them.

587
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000
What were you thinking when you tangled with
Eddie Wiseman?

588
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,000
I'm so torn.

589
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,000
I'm so torn whether I want to tell my story,

590
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,000
I want to speak out,

591
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,000
but at the cost of losing the little
communication

592
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,000
with my sister that I have.

593
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,000
Is there any chance that any other members of
your family,

594
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:29,000
Shalem, any of your other sisters, brothers,
will also leave?

595
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,000
I don't know.

596
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,000
I don't know.

597
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,000
I don't know.

598
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,000
I don't know.

599
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,000
I don't know.

600
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,000
I don't know.

601
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,000
I don't know.

602
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,000
I don't know.

603
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,000
I don't know.

604
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,000
I don't know.

605
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,000
I don't know.

606
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,000
I don't know.

607
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,000
I don't know.

608
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,000
I don't know.

609
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,000
I don't know.

610
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,000
I don't know.

611
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,000
You know, an alert sent out that something
was going on

612
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,000
and people were suspicious of what I'm doing.

613
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,000
My sister probably wouldn't agree to meet
with me.

614
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,000
I don't think it got that far.

615
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:18,000
The news got that far yet, so I...

616
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,000
I guess I count myself lucky so far.

617
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,000
I really don't know what I'm going to say to
her, to be honest.

618
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,000
I think, you know, it all depends on how the
conversation goes.

619
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,000
The reason I've kept that relationship open
with her

620
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,000
even through everything we've been through

621
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,000
is because I hope that she'll, when she does,
leave,

622
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,000
and I still hope that she will.

623
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,000
You know, she'll be able to reach out to me,

624
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,000
and she'll know who to call,

625
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,000
and she'll know that I'm there to help

626
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,000
and I'm not angry with her.

627
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,000
There's a lot of history there.

628
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,000
There's a lot of, like, emotions.

629
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:02,000
I think a good night's sleep and, you know,
waking up tomorrow,

630
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,000
I'll feel good about seeing her.

631
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,000
It's three minutes away.

632
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,000
The restaurant? Yeah.

633
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,000
Good.

634
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,000
So, I'm going to go and get her.

635
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,000
I'm going to go and get her.

636
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,000
I'm going to go and get her.

637
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,000
I'm going to go and get her.

638
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,000
I'm going to go and get her.

639
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,000
I'm going to go and get her.

640
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,000
I'm going to go and get her.

641
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,000
I'm going to go and get her.

642
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:45,000
I'm going to go and get her.

643
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,000
I'm going to go and get her.

644
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,000
I'm going to go and get her.

645
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,000
I'm going to go and get her.

646
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,000
I'm going to go and get her.

647
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,000
I'm going to go and get her.

648
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,000
I have to be grateful that I even get to see
her at all.

649
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,000
I'm hoping to have that conversation of, does
she believe in it?

650
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,000
Is that where she wants to live?

651
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,000
Is that where she really wants to raise her
children?

652
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Does she think that maybe it's not right?

653
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:16,000
I don't know, but I hope that I can maybe
plant some seeds.

654
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:20,000
My biggest concern is making sure that my
sister doesn't get any blowback from my vi...

655
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:27,000
My biggest concern is making sure that my
sister doesn't get any blowback from my vi...

656
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:33,000
Oftentimes, when someone is found out to have
done something like visit with family,

657
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:38,000
the community will shame them and make a big
deal of it.

658
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,000
How are you feeling?

659
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,000
That was good. That was really good.

660
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:58,000
That was, I think, worth every bit of it, of
going to see her.

661
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,000
That was, I think, worth every bit of it, of
going to see her.

662
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,000
That was, I think, worth every bit of it, of
going to see her.

663
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,000
She said something really important.

664
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,000
She said, everyone has the right to live the
way they want to.

665
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,000
She said, everyone has the right to live the
way they want to.

666
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,000
And I don't think it's fair that when people
leave the community,

667
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,000
that they blame all of their problems on the
community and say,

668
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,000
And I don't think it's fair that when people
leave the community,

669
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,000
that they blame all of their problems on the
community and say,

670
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,000
Well, this person mistreated me and that
person mistreated me,

671
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,000
and I just, you know, they all were out to
get me.

672
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,000
She said, if you don't want to live here,
don't live here. Go.

673
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,000
She said, if you don't want to live here,
don't live here. Go.

674
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:31,000
I'm not saying that it's not bad, but I think
what makes it really hard for me is my...

675
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:40,000
And it's hard for me to group them with that
situation.

676
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:45,000
Sometimes I feel like I'm confronted with the
same life that I had growing up.

677
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,000
And it usually happens when I have some sort
of interaction with them.

678
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:53,000
It makes me nervous. It makes me feel weak.

679
00:39:53,000 --> 00:40:02,000
You know, I've been gone for almost 13 years,
and I still sometimes feel like I'm not free.

680
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:08,000
You have established a nonprofit for people
like yourself.

681
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,000
People who are leaving a cult.

682
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:14,000
What do you actually do for these people as
they're trying to escape?

683
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,000
It's kind of a crash course on life.

684
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000
Remember, oftentimes these people are coming
out, they're, you know, 25 years old even,

685
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,000
and they have the education of a 10-year-old.

686
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,000
So really starting out with the basics.

687
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Where are they going to live?

688
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,000
Helping them get their driver's license, open
a bank account,

689
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,000
and really just help them take one day at a
time, step by step,

690
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,000
and learn how to self-manage their life.

691
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,000
It's like you're taking these people by the
hand and saying, here's how you live.

692
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,000
Yeah.

693
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,000
How many people have you helped so far?

694
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,000
18 people have come through the program.

695
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,000
18? Wow.

696
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,000
What do you tell them?

697
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,000
And when it gets better?

698
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,000
What? You can do this?

699
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,000
It doesn't get easier, but it does get
better.

700
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,000
You start to find happiness.

701
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,000
You start to find your place.

702
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,000
You make your own family.

703
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,000
Life is beautiful.

704
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,000
Life is amazing.

705
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,000
And you're told the complete opposite your
whole life.

706
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,000
So when you start to feel like life is
beautiful,

707
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:20,000
and you start to enjoy it, and, you know, you
look forward to waking up in the morning,

708
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,000
it's affirmation.

709
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,000
It's worth it.

710
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,000
Oh, my God.

711
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,000
You did your hair so cute.

712
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,000
When I started my organization a little over
a year ago,

713
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,000
Grace was my first recipient.

714
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,000
She had just left the 12 Tribes, and she had
so much to learn.

715
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:52,000
And I've been there every step to see her
find her little place in the world and sta...

716
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:56,000
I would say I definitely wouldn't have made
it this past year without you.

717
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,000
That's for sure.

718
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:02,000
I can't change that my family are still
members of the 12 Tribes,

719
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:06,000
but I can change the experience that everyone
has coming out,

720
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,000
giving them opportunities, because without
these opportunities,

721
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,000
their options are to fail and go back.

722
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,000
By failing and going back, the 12 Tribes win.

723
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,000
But if I help these people to succeed on the
outside,

724
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,000
then they lose, and I'm taking from them.

725
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,000
And I'm slowly draining their numbers and
resources.

726
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,000
And that's how I can affect change.

727
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:36,000
Every single person who leaves gives me a
little more hope that one day that will be...

728
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,000
that I'll be reunited with them.