1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,780 What happens to a cult when its prophet goes to prison? 2 00:00:14,780 --> 00:00:17,920 A&E investigates the FLDS. 3 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,420 They need food. 4 00:00:20,420 --> 00:00:21,420 They need jobs. 5 00:00:21,420 --> 00:00:22,900 They need places to live. 6 00:00:22,900 --> 00:00:24,219 They're in a humanitarian crisis. 7 00:00:24,219 --> 00:00:26,820 What are they trying to do to us? 8 00:00:26,820 --> 00:00:29,300 How much damage do they want us to have? 9 00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:36,899 They're having people being shoved out of the community, and it is traumatizing. 10 00:00:36,899 --> 00:00:37,899 Change is here. 11 00:00:37,899 --> 00:00:39,500 It's knocking on the door. 12 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:43,799 They can either participate in that change or they can resist it. 13 00:00:43,799 --> 00:00:47,240 Any man that would marry a 14-year-old girl is a pedophile. 14 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,420 My opinion of Warren Jeff says he's a narcissistic sicko. 15 00:00:50,420 --> 00:00:52,460 What he has done is irrefutable. 16 00:00:52,460 --> 00:00:54,260 I know the real story. 17 00:00:54,260 --> 00:00:55,260 I know the real man. 18 00:00:55,260 --> 00:00:59,100 So how do you respond to people who say your faith is blind? 19 00:00:59,140 --> 00:01:01,340 I need my religion. 20 00:01:01,340 --> 00:01:02,340 I want it. 21 00:01:02,340 --> 00:01:32,300 A Texas jury has sentenced polygamist leader Warren Jeffs to life in prison plus 20 years 22 00:01:32,299 --> 00:01:38,060 The jury heated the prosecutor's call to give Jeffs the maximum sentence for sexually 23 00:01:38,060 --> 00:01:41,299 assaulting an underage follower he took as his bride. 24 00:01:41,299 --> 00:01:45,299 The 55-year-old Jeffs will be eligible for parole in 35 years. 25 00:01:45,299 --> 00:01:48,299 Jeffs led a radical offshoot of the Mormon church. 26 00:01:48,299 --> 00:01:51,939 His 10,000 followers see him as God's spokesman on earth. 27 00:01:51,939 --> 00:01:54,140 He had access to unlimited money. 28 00:01:54,140 --> 00:01:58,719 He had access to a workforce that would work day and night to achieve anything that he 29 00:01:58,719 --> 00:02:00,340 set forth for them to do. 30 00:02:00,380 --> 00:02:03,380 He had access to sex, to women. 31 00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:08,340 He had access to everything with no checks and balances in place. 32 00:02:11,340 --> 00:02:15,340 Warren came down very hard on me and said, I will break you. 33 00:02:15,340 --> 00:02:20,340 Roy Jeffs has broken his silence about his father, accusing polygamist church leader 34 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:23,340 Warren Jeffs of sexually abusing him as a child. 35 00:02:31,340 --> 00:02:36,340 He still has direct rule over his followers because he is their prophet. 36 00:02:36,340 --> 00:02:38,340 He is a spokesperson for God. 37 00:02:38,340 --> 00:02:43,340 So if he's not giving direct orders today, they still are total believers. 38 00:02:43,340 --> 00:02:46,340 They are cut off from the outside world. 39 00:02:46,340 --> 00:02:52,340 Their devotion to the leader and their loyalty to the organization can only deepen. 40 00:03:00,340 --> 00:03:02,340 You guys ready for today? 41 00:03:02,340 --> 00:03:03,340 We hope so. 42 00:03:03,340 --> 00:03:04,340 I'll take my glasses off. 43 00:03:04,340 --> 00:03:06,340 I'm going to hide them. 44 00:03:06,340 --> 00:03:10,340 Oh my goodness, that's what you get for having curly hair. 45 00:03:10,340 --> 00:03:13,340 No, this is not a sacred ritual. 46 00:03:13,340 --> 00:03:16,340 This is just doing your hair. 47 00:03:16,340 --> 00:03:18,340 I was born at the Hilldale home. 48 00:03:18,340 --> 00:03:20,340 They're in Hilldale. 49 00:03:20,340 --> 00:03:22,340 We call Hilldale in Colorado City Short Creek. 50 00:03:22,340 --> 00:03:24,340 It's just one community. 51 00:03:24,340 --> 00:03:27,340 I grew up on the mountain there in Hilldale. 52 00:03:27,340 --> 00:03:28,340 I loved it. 53 00:03:28,340 --> 00:03:29,340 I absolutely loved it. 54 00:03:29,340 --> 00:03:32,340 I just didn't know any other life, of course. 55 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:35,340 And I don't know that I would have loved any other life. 56 00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:40,340 My father was into every kind of, I think he was a traveling salesman. 57 00:03:40,340 --> 00:03:42,340 He made money and he lost money. 58 00:03:42,340 --> 00:03:43,340 And sometimes it was feasts. 59 00:03:43,340 --> 00:03:45,340 Sometimes it was famine. 60 00:03:45,340 --> 00:03:49,340 But when it was famine, we always had our church to say, hey, we're going to be 61 00:03:49,340 --> 00:03:52,340 And when it was feasts, I hope we were helping others. 62 00:03:52,340 --> 00:03:53,340 And I think we were. 63 00:03:53,340 --> 00:03:57,340 I'm the middle of 75 children. 64 00:03:57,340 --> 00:04:00,340 Seventy-five children? 65 00:04:00,340 --> 00:04:02,340 So your father had how many wives? 66 00:04:02,340 --> 00:04:03,340 He had eight. 67 00:04:03,340 --> 00:04:06,340 And each wife had how many children? 68 00:04:06,340 --> 00:04:07,340 That varied. 69 00:04:07,340 --> 00:04:12,340 One only had three children and my mother had the most. 70 00:04:12,340 --> 00:04:13,340 Which one? 71 00:04:13,340 --> 00:04:14,340 I don't know. 72 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:15,340 I don't know. 73 00:04:15,340 --> 00:04:16,340 My mother had 19. 74 00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:18,340 Your mother had 19 children? 75 00:04:18,340 --> 00:04:19,340 My goodness. 76 00:04:19,340 --> 00:04:23,340 We really had our own little social system right there within the family. 77 00:04:23,340 --> 00:04:24,340 And it was great. 78 00:04:24,340 --> 00:04:25,340 We got along. 79 00:04:25,340 --> 00:04:26,340 We roamed the mountains. 80 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:28,340 We played cowboys and Indians all the time. 81 00:04:28,340 --> 00:04:33,340 You know, we'd find caves up on the mountain, little teeny-wens, and go in and make 82 00:04:33,340 --> 00:04:37,340 little fires and roast our marshmallows and hot dogs, you know, and stuff like that. 83 00:04:37,340 --> 00:04:38,340 We just loved it. 84 00:04:38,340 --> 00:04:17,340 Our family was a little bit of a 85 00:04:18,339 --> 00:04:19,339 We just loved it. 86 00:04:19,339 --> 00:04:20,339 Our family was a little bit of a 87 00:04:20,339 --> 00:04:21,339 We just loved it. 88 00:04:21,339 --> 00:04:23,339 Our family was a little bit of a 89 00:04:23,339 --> 00:04:24,339 We just loved it. 90 00:04:24,339 --> 00:04:25,339 Our family was a little bit of a 91 00:04:25,339 --> 00:04:26,339 We just loved it. 92 00:04:26,339 --> 00:04:27,339 Our family was a little bit of a 93 00:04:27,339 --> 00:04:28,339 We just loved it. 94 00:04:28,339 --> 00:04:29,339 Our family was a little bit of a 95 00:04:29,339 --> 00:04:30,339 We just loved it. 96 00:04:30,339 --> 00:04:31,339 Our family was a little bit of a 97 00:04:31,339 --> 00:04:32,339 We just loved it. 98 00:04:32,339 --> 00:04:33,339 Our family was a little bit of a 99 00:04:33,339 --> 00:04:34,339 We just loved it. 100 00:04:34,339 --> 00:04:35,339 Our family was a little bit of a 101 00:04:35,339 --> 00:04:36,339 We just loved it. 102 00:04:36,339 --> 00:04:37,339 Our family was a little bit of a 103 00:04:37,339 --> 00:04:38,339 We just loved it. 104 00:04:38,339 --> 00:04:39,339 Our family was a little bit of a 105 00:04:39,339 --> 00:04:40,339 We just loved it. 106 00:04:40,339 --> 00:04:41,339 Our family was a little bit of a 107 00:04:41,339 --> 00:04:42,339 We just loved it. 108 00:04:42,339 --> 00:04:43,339 Our family was a little bit of a 109 00:04:43,339 --> 00:04:44,339 We just loved it. 110 00:04:44,339 --> 00:04:45,339 Our family was a little bit of a 111 00:04:45,339 --> 00:04:46,339 We just loved it. 112 00:04:46,339 --> 00:04:47,339 Our family was a little bit of a 113 00:04:47,339 --> 00:04:48,339 We just loved it. 114 00:04:48,339 --> 00:04:49,339 Our family was a little bit of a 115 00:04:49,339 --> 00:04:50,339 We just loved it. 116 00:04:50,339 --> 00:04:51,339 Our family was a little bit of a 117 00:04:51,339 --> 00:04:52,339 We just loved it. 118 00:04:52,339 --> 00:04:53,339 Our family was a little bit of a 119 00:04:53,339 --> 00:04:54,339 We just loved it. 120 00:04:54,339 --> 00:04:55,339 Our family was a little bit of a 121 00:04:55,339 --> 00:04:56,339 We just loved it. 122 00:04:56,339 --> 00:04:57,339 Our family was a little bit of a 123 00:04:57,339 --> 00:04:58,339 We just loved it. 124 00:04:58,339 --> 00:04:59,339 Our family was a little bit of a 125 00:04:59,339 --> 00:05:00,339 We just loved it. 126 00:05:00,339 --> 00:05:01,339 Our family was a little bit of a 127 00:05:01,339 --> 00:05:02,339 We just loved it. 128 00:05:02,339 --> 00:05:03,339 Our family was a little bit of a 129 00:05:03,339 --> 00:05:04,339 We just loved it. 130 00:05:04,339 --> 00:05:05,339 Our family was a little bit of a 131 00:05:05,339 --> 00:05:06,339 We just loved it. 132 00:05:06,339 --> 00:05:07,339 Our family was a little bit of a 133 00:05:07,339 --> 00:05:08,339 We just loved it. 134 00:05:08,339 --> 00:05:09,339 Our family was a little bit of a 135 00:05:09,339 --> 00:05:10,339 We just loved it. 136 00:05:10,339 --> 00:05:11,339 Our family was a little bit of a 137 00:05:11,339 --> 00:05:14,339 I went to his classes, and I 138 00:05:14,339 --> 00:05:15,339 I went to his classes, and I 139 00:05:15,339 --> 00:05:16,339 I went to his classes, and I really, 140 00:05:16,339 --> 00:05:17,339 really, really liked him. 141 00:05:17,339 --> 00:05:18,339 really, really liked him. 142 00:05:18,339 --> 00:05:19,339 So after a few years, I thought, 143 00:05:19,339 --> 00:05:20,339 So after a few years, I thought, 144 00:05:20,339 --> 00:05:21,339 Well, I really want Heavenly 145 00:05:21,339 --> 00:05:22,339 Father to be involved in 146 00:05:22,339 --> 00:05:23,339 Whatever choice and decision I 147 00:05:23,339 --> 00:05:24,339 Make. 148 00:05:24,339 --> 00:05:27,339 Make. 149 00:05:27,339 --> 00:05:30,339 I did go to the prophet, and he 150 00:05:30,339 --> 00:05:31,339 Did go to the prophet, and he 151 00:05:31,339 --> 00:05:32,339 Did go to the prophet, and he did 152 00:05:32,339 --> 00:05:33,339 Ask me, do you have anybody in 153 00:05:33,339 --> 00:05:34,339 Ask me, do you have anybody in 154 00:05:34,339 --> 00:05:35,339 Mind? 155 00:05:35,339 --> 00:05:36,339 Mind? 156 00:05:36,339 --> 00:05:37,339 And I says, as a matter of 157 00:05:37,339 --> 00:05:38,339 And I says, as a matter of 158 00:05:38,339 --> 00:05:39,339 And I says, as a matter of 159 00:05:39,339 --> 00:05:40,339 Fact, I do, but I only want to 160 00:05:40,339 --> 00:05:41,339 Fact, I do, but I only want to 161 00:05:41,339 --> 00:05:42,339 Be called and says, you know 162 00:05:42,339 --> 00:05:43,339 Be called and says, you know 163 00:05:43,339 --> 00:05:44,339 It. 164 00:05:44,339 --> 00:05:45,339 It feels right. 165 00:05:45,339 --> 00:05:46,339 It feels right. 166 00:05:46,339 --> 00:05:47,339 The Lord's pleased with this. 167 00:05:47,339 --> 00:05:48,339 The Lord's pleased with this. 168 00:05:48,339 --> 00:05:49,339 And so we went ahead and got 169 00:05:49,339 --> 00:05:51,339 And so we went ahead and got married. 170 00:05:51,339 --> 00:05:52,339 married. 171 00:05:52,339 --> 00:05:53,339 I was married at 20. 172 00:05:53,339 --> 00:05:54,339 I was married at 20. 173 00:05:54,339 --> 00:05:55,339 Seemed like a good age. 174 00:05:55,339 --> 00:05:56,339 Seemed like a good age. 175 00:05:56,339 --> 00:05:57,339 The FLDS are true believers in 176 00:05:57,339 --> 00:05:58,339 The FLDS are true believers in 177 00:05:58,339 --> 00:05:59,339 The FLDS are true believers in 178 00:05:59,339 --> 00:06:00,339 The practice of polygamy, which 179 00:06:00,339 --> 00:06:01,339 The practice of polygamy, which 180 00:06:01,339 --> 00:06:02,339 Was first announced by their 181 00:06:02,339 --> 00:06:03,339 Was first announced by their 182 00:06:03,339 --> 00:06:04,339 Founder Joseph Smith, who said 183 00:06:04,339 --> 00:06:05,339 Founder Joseph Smith, who said 184 00:06:05,339 --> 00:06:06,339 There was word from God that 185 00:06:06,339 --> 00:06:07,339 There was word from God that 186 00:06:07,339 --> 00:06:08,339 A man needed to have at least 187 00:06:08,339 --> 00:06:09,339 A man needed to have at least 188 00:06:09,339 --> 00:06:10,339 Three wives in order to reach 189 00:06:10,339 --> 00:06:11,339 Three wives in order to reach 190 00:06:11,339 --> 00:06:12,339 The celestial kingdom, which is 191 00:06:12,339 --> 00:06:13,339 Their highest level of heaven. 192 00:06:13,339 --> 00:06:14,339 The FLDS is one of the many 193 00:06:14,339 --> 00:06:15,339 Groups that splintered off from 194 00:06:15,339 --> 00:06:16,339 The FLDS is one of the many 195 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:17,339 Groups that splintered off from 196 00:06:17,339 --> 00:06:18,339 The original Mormon church, the 197 00:06:18,339 --> 00:06:19,339 The original Mormon church, the 198 00:06:19,339 --> 00:06:20,339 LDS, known as the Latter-day 199 00:06:20,339 --> 00:06:21,339 Saints. 200 00:06:21,339 --> 00:06:22,339 In 1890, the leaders of the LDS 201 00:06:22,339 --> 00:06:23,339 Renounced polygamy because they 202 00:06:23,339 --> 00:06:24,339 Renounced polygamy because they 203 00:06:24,339 --> 00:06:25,339 Wanted to gain statehood in the 204 00:06:25,339 --> 00:06:26,339 United States, and as long as 205 00:06:26,339 --> 00:06:27,339 They were practicing polygamy, 206 00:06:27,339 --> 00:06:28,339 Utah was the only state that 207 00:06:28,339 --> 00:06:29,339 Had a polygamy program. 208 00:06:29,339 --> 00:06:30,339 United States had a polygamy 209 00:06:30,339 --> 00:06:31,339 Program, and they were 210 00:06:31,339 --> 00:06:32,339 Practicing polygamy. 211 00:06:32,339 --> 00:06:33,339 They were practicing polygamy 212 00:06:33,339 --> 00:06:34,339 Because they wanted to gain 213 00:06:34,339 --> 00:06:35,339 Statehood in the United States, 214 00:06:35,339 --> 00:06:36,339 And as long as they were 215 00:06:36,339 --> 00:06:37,339 Practicing polygamy, Utah would 216 00:06:37,339 --> 00:06:38,339 Not have been able to become a 217 00:06:38,339 --> 00:06:39,339 State. 218 00:06:39,339 --> 00:06:40,339 But the FLDS believed that that 219 00:06:40,339 --> 00:06:41,339 Was wrong, that they should 220 00:06:41,339 --> 00:06:42,339 Follow the tenets that have 221 00:06:42,339 --> 00:06:43,339 Always been there within 222 00:06:43,339 --> 00:06:44,339 Mormonism, and that a plural 223 00:06:44,339 --> 00:06:45,339 Marriage is a very important 224 00:06:45,339 --> 00:06:46,339 Practice because otherwise they 225 00:06:46,339 --> 00:06:47,339 Won't get to the celestial 226 00:06:47,339 --> 00:06:48,339 Kingdom. 227 00:06:48,339 --> 00:06:49,339 So even though the outside 228 00:06:49,339 --> 00:06:50,339 World has, in many instances, 229 00:06:50,339 --> 00:06:51,339 Labeled the FLDS as a cult, 230 00:06:51,339 --> 00:06:52,339 Within the community, they see 231 00:06:52,339 --> 00:06:53,339 Themselves as living a very 232 00:06:53,339 --> 00:06:54,339 Religious life, and they're 233 00:06:54,339 --> 00:06:55,339 Not going to be able to 234 00:06:55,339 --> 00:06:56,339 Practice polygamy. 235 00:06:56,339 --> 00:06:57,339 So they're not going to be 236 00:06:57,339 --> 00:06:58,339 Practicing polygamy. 237 00:06:58,339 --> 00:06:59,339 So they're not going to be 238 00:06:59,339 --> 00:07:00,339 Practicing polygamy. 239 00:07:00,339 --> 00:07:01,339 In the community, they see 240 00:07:01,339 --> 00:07:02,339 Themselves as living a very 241 00:07:02,339 --> 00:07:03,339 Pure lifestyle through their 242 00:07:03,339 --> 00:07:04,339 Dress, through their behavior, 243 00:07:04,339 --> 00:07:05,339 Through their prayers, and 244 00:07:05,339 --> 00:07:06,339 Their family values. 245 00:07:14,339 --> 00:07:15,339 I am not an official 246 00:07:15,339 --> 00:07:16,339 Representative of our group. 247 00:07:16,339 --> 00:07:17,339 I'm not officially told to do 248 00:07:17,339 --> 00:07:18,339 This. 249 00:07:18,339 --> 00:07:19,339 I am doing this because I want 250 00:07:19,339 --> 00:07:20,339 To do this. 251 00:07:20,339 --> 00:07:21,339 This is the first time I felt 252 00:07:21,339 --> 00:07:22,339 Like that maybe I wouldn't be 253 00:07:22,339 --> 00:07:23,339 Hurting my people, and my 254 00:07:23,339 --> 00:07:24,339 People are important to me. 255 00:07:24,339 --> 00:07:25,339 I'm not going to be hurting 256 00:07:25,339 --> 00:07:26,339 My people. 257 00:07:26,339 --> 00:07:27,339 I'm not going to be hurting 258 00:07:27,339 --> 00:07:28,339 My people. 259 00:07:28,339 --> 00:07:29,339 I'm not going to be hurting 260 00:07:29,339 --> 00:07:30,339 My people. 261 00:07:30,339 --> 00:07:31,339 I'm not going to be hurting 262 00:07:31,339 --> 00:07:32,339 My people. 263 00:07:32,339 --> 00:07:33,339 My people are important to me. 264 00:07:33,339 --> 00:07:34,339 Can you describe to me what 265 00:07:34,339 --> 00:07:35,339 Celestial law is and what that 266 00:07:35,339 --> 00:07:36,339 Means? 267 00:07:36,339 --> 00:07:37,339 Well, celestial law is the 268 00:07:37,339 --> 00:07:38,339 Plural marriage with a man 269 00:07:38,339 --> 00:07:39,339 Having more than one wife. 270 00:07:39,339 --> 00:07:40,339 And in the bible, jesus has 271 00:07:40,339 --> 00:07:41,339 More than one. 272 00:07:41,339 --> 00:07:42,339 When they went to the 273 00:07:42,339 --> 00:07:43,339 Seplicker after he was 274 00:07:43,339 --> 00:07:44,339 Crucified, the ladies that 275 00:07:44,339 --> 00:07:45,339 Went to take care of him were 276 00:07:45,339 --> 00:07:46,339 His wives, abraham, izek, and 277 00:07:46,339 --> 00:07:47,339 Jacob. 278 00:07:47,339 --> 00:07:48,339 They all had more than one 279 00:07:48,339 --> 00:07:49,339 Wife, and we consider that 280 00:07:49,339 --> 00:07:50,339 We're part of them. 281 00:07:50,339 --> 00:07:51,339 And we consider that we're 282 00:07:51,339 --> 00:07:52,339 Part of them. 283 00:07:52,339 --> 00:07:53,339 And we consider that we're 284 00:07:53,339 --> 00:07:54,339 Part of them. 285 00:07:54,339 --> 00:07:55,339 And we consider that we're 286 00:07:55,339 --> 00:07:56,339 Part of them. 287 00:07:56,339 --> 00:07:57,339 And we consider that we're 288 00:07:57,339 --> 00:07:58,339 Part of them. 289 00:07:58,339 --> 00:07:59,339 This is our living room, and 290 00:07:59,339 --> 00:08:00,339 This is where we meet for 291 00:08:00,339 --> 00:08:01,339 Family class and prayer time. 292 00:08:01,339 --> 00:08:02,339 Where's your tv? 293 00:08:02,339 --> 00:08:03,339 TV? 294 00:08:03,339 --> 00:08:04,339 We don't have a tv. 295 00:08:04,339 --> 00:08:05,339 We don't do tv. 296 00:08:05,339 --> 00:08:06,339 Have a computer. 297 00:08:06,339 --> 00:08:07,339 We have computers. 298 00:08:07,339 --> 00:08:08,339 Do the kids use them? 299 00:08:08,339 --> 00:08:09,339 The children can use the 300 00:08:09,339 --> 00:08:10,339 Computers. 301 00:08:10,339 --> 00:08:11,339 We don't have internet. 302 00:08:11,339 --> 00:08:12,339 This is hair combing station. 303 00:08:12,339 --> 00:08:13,339 We put this in because we 304 00:08:13,339 --> 00:08:14,339 Want to have a computer. 305 00:08:14,339 --> 00:08:15,339 We don't have a computer. 306 00:08:15,339 --> 00:08:16,339 We don't have a computer. 307 00:08:16,339 --> 00:08:17,339 We don't have a computer. 308 00:08:17,339 --> 00:08:18,339 We don't have a computer. 309 00:08:18,339 --> 00:08:19,339 We don't have a computer. 310 00:08:19,339 --> 00:08:20,339 We don't have a computer. 311 00:08:20,339 --> 00:08:21,339 We don't have a computer. 312 00:08:21,339 --> 00:08:22,339 We don't have a computer. 313 00:08:22,339 --> 00:08:23,339 We don't have a computer. 314 00:08:23,339 --> 00:08:24,339 We don't have a computer. 315 00:08:24,339 --> 00:08:25,339 We don't have a computer. 316 00:08:25,339 --> 00:08:26,339 This is our hair combing 317 00:08:26,339 --> 00:08:27,339 Station. 318 00:08:27,339 --> 00:08:28,339 We put this in because all 319 00:08:28,339 --> 00:08:29,339 The girls were taking the 320 00:08:29,339 --> 00:08:30,339 Bathrooms, and we need them for 321 00:08:30,339 --> 00:08:31,339 Other things besides hair 322 00:08:31,339 --> 00:08:32,339 Combing, and some of them just 323 00:08:32,339 --> 00:08:33,339 Love to comb their hair all 324 00:08:33,339 --> 00:08:34,339 Day. 325 00:08:34,339 --> 00:08:35,339 And when we get eggs, we 326 00:08:35,339 --> 00:08:36,339 Usually get a case of eggs. 327 00:08:36,339 --> 00:08:37,339 Because we just went flat. 328 00:08:37,339 --> 00:08:38,339 Are you kidding? 329 00:08:38,339 --> 00:08:39,339 So this is our sewing room. 330 00:08:39,339 --> 00:08:40,339 And what kind of things do 331 00:08:40,339 --> 00:08:41,339 You sew? 332 00:08:41,339 --> 00:08:42,339 We have a lot of things. 333 00:08:42,339 --> 00:08:43,339 We have a lot of things. 334 00:08:43,339 --> 00:08:44,339 We have a lot of things. 335 00:08:44,339 --> 00:08:45,339 We have a lot of things. 336 00:08:45,339 --> 00:08:46,339 We have a lot of things. 337 00:08:46,339 --> 00:08:47,339 We have a lot of things. 338 00:08:47,339 --> 00:08:48,339 We have a lot of things. 339 00:08:48,339 --> 00:08:49,339 We have a lot of things. 340 00:08:49,339 --> 00:08:50,339 We have a lot of things. 341 00:08:50,339 --> 00:08:51,339 We have a lot of things. 342 00:08:51,339 --> 00:08:52,339 We have a lot of things. 343 00:08:52,340 --> 00:08:53,340 So this is our sewing room. 344 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:54,340 And what kind of things do 345 00:08:54,340 --> 00:08:55,340 You sew? 346 00:08:55,340 --> 00:08:56,340 We sew our dresses. 347 00:08:56,340 --> 00:08:57,340 We sew our dresses. 348 00:08:57,340 --> 00:08:58,340 Some people have the machines 349 00:08:58,340 --> 00:08:59,340 To make trousers. 350 00:08:59,340 --> 00:09:00,340 We sew our underwear. 351 00:09:00,340 --> 00:09:01,340 We sew everything that we 352 00:09:01,340 --> 00:09:02,340 Wear. 353 00:09:02,340 --> 00:09:03,340 Right now, I think we have 354 00:09:03,340 --> 00:09:04,340 24 people here. 355 00:09:04,340 --> 00:09:05,340 I've asked the other mothers 356 00:09:05,340 --> 00:09:06,340 If they would like to meet, 357 00:09:06,340 --> 00:09:07,340 You know, and talk to you, but 358 00:09:07,340 --> 00:09:08,340 Everyone is very concerned. 359 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:09,340 And I've kind of gone out 360 00:09:09,340 --> 00:09:10,340 And I've kind of gone out 361 00:09:10,340 --> 00:09:11,340 And I've kind of gone out 362 00:09:11,340 --> 00:09:12,340 And I've kind of gone out 363 00:09:12,340 --> 00:09:13,340 And I've kind of gone out 364 00:09:13,340 --> 00:09:14,340 And I've kind of gone out 365 00:09:14,340 --> 00:09:15,340 And I've kind of gone out 366 00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:16,340 And I've kind of gone out 367 00:09:16,340 --> 00:09:17,340 And I've kind of gone out 368 00:09:17,340 --> 00:09:18,340 And I've kind of gone out 369 00:09:18,340 --> 00:09:19,340 And I've kind of gone out 370 00:09:19,340 --> 00:09:20,340 And I've kind of gone out 371 00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:21,340 And I've kind of gone out 372 00:09:21,340 --> 00:09:22,340 And I've kind of gone out 373 00:09:22,340 --> 00:09:23,340 And I've kind of gone out 374 00:09:23,340 --> 00:09:24,340 And I've kind of gone out 375 00:09:24,340 --> 00:09:25,340 And I've kind of gone out 376 00:09:25,340 --> 00:09:26,340 And I've kind of gone out 377 00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:27,340 And I've kind of gone out 378 00:09:27,340 --> 00:09:28,340 And I've kind of gone out 379 00:09:28,340 --> 00:09:29,340 And I've kind of gone out 380 00:09:29,340 --> 00:09:30,340 And I've kind of gone out 381 00:09:30,340 --> 00:09:31,340 And I've kind of gone out 382 00:09:31,340 --> 00:09:32,340 And I've kind of gone out 383 00:09:32,340 --> 00:09:33,340 And I've kind of gone out 384 00:09:33,340 --> 00:09:34,340 And I've kind of gone out 385 00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:35,340 And I've kind of gone out 386 00:09:35,340 --> 00:09:36,340 And I've kind of gone out 387 00:09:36,340 --> 00:09:37,340 And I've kind of gone out 388 00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:38,340 And I've kind of gone out 389 00:09:38,340 --> 00:09:39,340 And I've kind of gone out 390 00:09:39,340 --> 00:09:40,340 And I've kind of gone out 391 00:09:40,340 --> 00:09:41,340 And I've kind of gone out 392 00:09:41,340 --> 00:09:42,340 And I've kind of gone out 393 00:09:42,340 --> 00:09:43,340 And I've kind of gone out 394 00:09:43,340 --> 00:09:44,340 We're a family. 395 00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:46,340 Why is it that you're not married yet? 396 00:09:46,340 --> 00:09:48,340 We're told who to marry. 397 00:09:48,340 --> 00:09:49,340 Who decides that? 398 00:09:49,340 --> 00:09:51,340 Our prophetess. 399 00:09:57,340 --> 00:09:59,340 There is a picture of the prophet there. 400 00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:02,340 Almost every room has a picture. 401 00:10:04,340 --> 00:10:05,340 We love him. 402 00:10:05,340 --> 00:10:07,340 He's only been good to us. 403 00:10:07,340 --> 00:10:10,340 So, yeah, everyone has one. 404 00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:13,340 Everybody calls him Warren Jeffs, 405 00:10:13,340 --> 00:10:15,340 but to me, because I love him 406 00:10:15,340 --> 00:10:16,340 and I know only good about him, 407 00:10:16,340 --> 00:10:17,340 he's Uncle Warren. 408 00:10:17,340 --> 00:10:18,340 And how would you describe 409 00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:20,340 Uncle Warren, as you call him? 410 00:10:20,340 --> 00:10:22,340 As a father. 411 00:10:22,340 --> 00:10:27,340 He is a very loving, caring... 412 00:10:27,340 --> 00:10:29,340 Oh, wow. 413 00:10:31,340 --> 00:10:33,340 Sorry. 414 00:10:33,340 --> 00:10:35,340 It's so deep and so real 415 00:10:35,340 --> 00:10:38,340 and so much love 416 00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:41,340 and kindness that it hurts to think 417 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:45,340 that anybody could see bad in him. 418 00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:47,340 What is the inappropriate age 419 00:10:47,340 --> 00:10:49,340 for a marriage in your mind 420 00:10:49,340 --> 00:10:50,340 and in the community? 421 00:10:50,340 --> 00:10:52,340 I don't care if they're married 422 00:10:52,340 --> 00:10:54,340 when they're two. 423 00:10:54,340 --> 00:10:56,340 I don't care if they're married 424 00:10:56,340 --> 00:10:58,340 when they're two. 425 00:10:58,340 --> 00:11:00,340 I don't care if they're married 426 00:11:00,340 --> 00:11:02,340 when they're two. 427 00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:04,340 I don't care if they're married 428 00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:06,340 when they're two. 429 00:11:06,340 --> 00:11:08,340 I don't care if they're married 430 00:11:08,340 --> 00:11:10,340 when they're two. 431 00:11:10,340 --> 00:11:12,340 I don't care if they're married 432 00:11:12,340 --> 00:11:14,340 when they're two. 433 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:16,340 But the appropriate age 434 00:11:16,340 --> 00:11:18,340 for taking responsibility 435 00:11:18,340 --> 00:11:21,340 would be up there around 18. 436 00:11:33,340 --> 00:11:37,340 He started sexually abusing me 437 00:11:37,340 --> 00:11:39,340 as a young child, 438 00:11:39,340 --> 00:11:43,340 and it was so against his teaching 439 00:11:43,340 --> 00:11:45,340 so against what he had taught us. 440 00:11:45,340 --> 00:11:47,340 I didn't even know what to think, 441 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:49,340 and I just felt terrible. 442 00:11:49,340 --> 00:11:51,340 When a cult leader is imprisoned, 443 00:11:51,340 --> 00:11:53,340 in many ways, it makes the followers 444 00:11:53,340 --> 00:11:55,340 believe even more, 445 00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:57,340 and it makes the group stronger, 446 00:11:57,340 --> 00:11:59,340 because all along, no doubt, 447 00:11:59,340 --> 00:12:01,340 they've been told that they're going 448 00:12:01,340 --> 00:12:03,340 to experience persecution, 449 00:12:03,340 --> 00:12:05,340 so now they have a living example of this. 450 00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:07,340 Suddenly their leader is arrested, 451 00:12:07,340 --> 00:12:09,340 is put on trial, is convicted, 452 00:12:09,340 --> 00:12:11,340 is put in prison. 453 00:12:11,340 --> 00:12:13,340 I know the real story. 454 00:12:13,340 --> 00:12:15,340 I know the real man, 455 00:12:15,340 --> 00:12:19,340 and he's had a lot of bad press, 456 00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:21,340 and he's had a lot of things said 457 00:12:21,340 --> 00:12:23,340 that just... 458 00:12:23,340 --> 00:12:25,340 they don't hold true. 459 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:28,340 He's the only good that I know of in my life. 460 00:12:28,340 --> 00:12:31,340 He's followed a line of successors. 461 00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,340 You know, he's come down, 462 00:12:33,340 --> 00:12:35,340 and they've only done good, 463 00:12:35,340 --> 00:12:37,340 and every one of them have had something 464 00:12:37,340 --> 00:12:39,340 horrible said about them, 465 00:12:39,340 --> 00:12:41,340 and I know one of them. 466 00:12:41,340 --> 00:12:43,340 Same narrative, Joseph Smith, 467 00:12:43,340 --> 00:12:45,340 Brigham Young, John Taylor, all those. 468 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:47,340 It's the same one. 469 00:12:47,340 --> 00:12:49,340 When Warren Jeffs was convicted 470 00:12:49,340 --> 00:12:51,340 and went to prison, 471 00:12:51,340 --> 00:12:53,340 this had a very deep effect 472 00:12:53,340 --> 00:12:55,340 on the members of the community. 473 00:12:55,340 --> 00:12:57,340 With him gone, they don't have 474 00:12:57,340 --> 00:12:59,340 the direct leadership, 475 00:12:59,340 --> 00:13:01,340 and the community is no longer thriving 476 00:13:01,340 --> 00:13:03,340 as it was before, 477 00:13:03,340 --> 00:13:05,340 so they don't have means to live. 478 00:13:05,340 --> 00:13:07,340 There aren't many jobs. 479 00:13:07,340 --> 00:13:09,340 They don't have a place to go, 480 00:13:09,340 --> 00:13:11,340 so they're really living in a state of stress 481 00:13:11,340 --> 00:13:13,340 and conflict and confusion, in a sense. 482 00:13:13,340 --> 00:13:15,340 There's no way to make a living. 483 00:13:15,340 --> 00:13:17,340 There's no way to take care of your family. 484 00:13:17,340 --> 00:13:19,340 There are no resources 485 00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:21,340 that used to be there. 486 00:13:21,340 --> 00:13:23,340 We lived in a community 487 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:25,340 that was thriving. 488 00:13:37,340 --> 00:13:39,340 And now we're having our homes, 489 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:41,340 our businesses evicted 490 00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:43,340 and people being 491 00:13:43,340 --> 00:13:45,340 basically shoved out of the community, 492 00:13:45,340 --> 00:13:47,340 and it is traumatizing. 493 00:13:47,340 --> 00:13:49,340 This is a mess. 494 00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:51,340 It is a mess. 495 00:13:51,340 --> 00:13:53,340 How much of this is the fault of the church? 496 00:13:53,340 --> 00:13:55,340 I mean, you also said... 497 00:13:55,340 --> 00:13:57,340 I would totally blame this, 498 00:13:57,340 --> 00:13:59,340 wholly on the church's fault, 499 00:13:59,340 --> 00:14:01,340 absolutely, completely on their fault. 500 00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:03,340 And what the ones who are still true believers 501 00:14:03,340 --> 00:14:05,340 don't see is that 502 00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:07,340 just about everything that they're suffering from, 503 00:14:07,340 --> 00:14:09,340 the evictions, 504 00:14:09,340 --> 00:14:11,340 the poverty, the broken-down community, 505 00:14:11,340 --> 00:14:13,340 all of that comes from him. 506 00:14:13,340 --> 00:14:15,340 From Warren Jeffs? 507 00:14:15,340 --> 00:14:17,340 From Warren Jeffs. I mean, he brought that. 508 00:14:17,340 --> 00:14:19,340 The conditions of living 509 00:14:19,340 --> 00:14:21,340 under Warren Jeffs were extremely severe. 510 00:14:21,340 --> 00:14:23,340 He got rid of television sets, 511 00:14:23,340 --> 00:14:25,340 he cut off any kind of contact 512 00:14:25,340 --> 00:14:27,340 with the outside world, 513 00:14:27,340 --> 00:14:29,340 and so it became a much more sequestered group 514 00:14:29,340 --> 00:14:31,340 with basically no exposure 515 00:14:31,340 --> 00:14:33,340 to the outside world. 516 00:14:33,340 --> 00:14:35,340 In my opinion, Warren Jeffs' intention 517 00:14:35,340 --> 00:14:37,340 for cutting off the FLDS 518 00:14:37,340 --> 00:14:39,340 from the rest of society 519 00:14:39,340 --> 00:14:41,340 was for him to gain absolute and total control. 520 00:14:45,340 --> 00:14:47,340 In my opinion, Warren Jeffs 521 00:14:47,340 --> 00:14:49,340 is a narcissistic sicko. 522 00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:51,340 I mean, what he has done 523 00:14:51,340 --> 00:14:53,340 is irrefutable. 524 00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:55,340 That guy, he was a meticulous record keeper. 525 00:14:55,340 --> 00:14:57,340 He wrote everything down. 526 00:14:57,340 --> 00:14:59,340 I mean, everything. 527 00:14:59,340 --> 00:15:01,340 And the evidence that he wrote down 528 00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:03,340 with his own hand, his own words, 529 00:15:03,340 --> 00:15:05,340 if the world knew what I was doing, 530 00:15:05,340 --> 00:15:07,340 they would hang me from the highest tree. 531 00:15:07,340 --> 00:15:09,340 And I'm quoting him. 532 00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:13,340 I'm quoting his own words. 533 00:15:21,340 --> 00:15:23,340 We were powerful as a group. 534 00:15:25,340 --> 00:15:27,340 And we had a leader 535 00:15:27,340 --> 00:15:29,340 that had a lot of respect. 536 00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:31,340 And so it was scary. 537 00:15:31,340 --> 00:15:33,340 It seemed like it was scary to a lot of people 538 00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:35,340 that we were going to become 539 00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:37,340 too powerful in some way. 540 00:15:37,340 --> 00:15:39,340 I don't know how. 541 00:15:39,340 --> 00:15:41,340 It was only like 10,000 people, big deal, you know. 542 00:15:41,340 --> 00:15:43,340 That's not very many compared to the rest of the world. 543 00:15:43,340 --> 00:15:45,340 And we were happier. 544 00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:47,340 We had a lot more happy times. 545 00:15:47,340 --> 00:15:49,340 We could pray together. 546 00:15:49,340 --> 00:15:51,340 We worshipped regularly and often, 547 00:15:51,340 --> 00:15:53,340 and it was beautiful. 548 00:15:53,340 --> 00:15:55,340 This land belongs to Heavenly Father. 549 00:15:55,340 --> 00:15:57,340 It doesn't belong to me. 550 00:15:57,340 --> 00:15:59,340 It doesn't belong to my husband. 551 00:15:59,340 --> 00:16:01,340 It doesn't belong to my sister wives or my children. 552 00:16:01,340 --> 00:16:03,340 It belongs to Heavenly Father. 553 00:16:03,340 --> 00:16:05,340 Our forefathers, our great-grandfathers 554 00:16:05,340 --> 00:16:07,340 and our grandfathers dedicated it to him, 555 00:16:07,340 --> 00:16:09,340 and we want to keep that dedication. 556 00:16:09,340 --> 00:16:11,340 So, yes, it's very sacred. 557 00:16:15,340 --> 00:16:17,340 Over a decade ago, 558 00:16:17,340 --> 00:16:19,340 the state of California was 559 00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:21,340 a very sacred place. 560 00:16:21,340 --> 00:16:23,340 Over a decade ago, 561 00:16:23,340 --> 00:16:25,340 the state of Utah took over 562 00:16:25,340 --> 00:16:27,340 the FLDS land trust 563 00:16:27,340 --> 00:16:29,340 that owned all the homes. 564 00:16:29,340 --> 00:16:31,340 And they 565 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:33,340 installed a board of trustees 566 00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:35,340 that consisted 100% 567 00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:37,340 of ex-FLDS. 568 00:16:37,340 --> 00:16:39,340 Well, the FLDS 569 00:16:39,340 --> 00:16:41,340 have had a long-standing principle 570 00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:43,340 where they would not 571 00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:45,340 mingle or do business with 572 00:16:45,340 --> 00:16:47,340 former members. 573 00:16:47,340 --> 00:16:49,340 They consider the ex-members 574 00:16:49,340 --> 00:16:51,340 as their own apostates. 575 00:16:57,340 --> 00:16:59,340 Faithful FLDS cannot 576 00:16:59,340 --> 00:17:01,340 sign documents 577 00:17:01,340 --> 00:17:03,340 with apostates. 578 00:17:03,340 --> 00:17:05,340 As a result, 579 00:17:05,340 --> 00:17:07,340 people have been evicted by the 580 00:17:07,340 --> 00:17:09,340 hundreds, hundreds of homes. 581 00:17:09,340 --> 00:17:11,340 Now, the people who've left the church, 582 00:17:11,340 --> 00:17:13,340 the apostates, 583 00:17:13,340 --> 00:17:15,340 want to go move there. 584 00:17:15,340 --> 00:17:17,340 The way they see it, 585 00:17:17,339 --> 00:17:19,339 they're not going to move. 586 00:17:19,339 --> 00:17:21,339 Change is inevitable. 587 00:17:21,339 --> 00:17:23,339 Change is coming. 588 00:17:23,339 --> 00:17:25,339 Change is here. 589 00:17:25,339 --> 00:17:27,339 It's knocking on the door. 590 00:17:27,339 --> 00:17:29,339 And I think the FLDS 591 00:17:29,339 --> 00:17:31,339 have a choice. 592 00:17:31,339 --> 00:17:33,339 They can either 593 00:17:33,339 --> 00:17:35,339 participate in that change, 594 00:17:35,339 --> 00:17:37,339 or they can resist it. 595 00:17:37,339 --> 00:17:39,339 But it's here. 596 00:17:43,339 --> 00:17:45,339 I grew up here in Short Creek, 597 00:17:45,339 --> 00:17:47,339 and I was born and raised in the FLDS 598 00:17:47,339 --> 00:17:49,339 church. I had one of the best childhoods 599 00:17:49,339 --> 00:17:51,339 you could ever imagine. My great-grandfather 600 00:17:51,339 --> 00:17:53,339 is John Y. Barlow, 601 00:17:53,339 --> 00:17:55,339 who was one of the founding members 602 00:17:55,339 --> 00:17:57,339 of this community. He was a prophet. 603 00:17:57,339 --> 00:17:59,339 You know, there was TV 604 00:17:59,339 --> 00:18:01,339 in our house. We had Christmas 605 00:18:01,339 --> 00:18:03,339 parties. We celebrated the Fourth 606 00:18:03,339 --> 00:18:05,339 of July. And then the Jeff's regime 607 00:18:05,339 --> 00:18:07,339 came in. 608 00:18:07,339 --> 00:18:09,339 I attended Alta Academy, 609 00:18:09,339 --> 00:18:11,339 the church school in Salt Lake, 610 00:18:11,339 --> 00:18:13,339 where Warren was the principal. 611 00:18:13,339 --> 00:18:15,339 I was a little bit of a rebellious 612 00:18:15,339 --> 00:18:17,339 kid. I was a little bit hard-headed, 613 00:18:17,339 --> 00:18:19,339 and I had my opinions. And Warren, 614 00:18:19,339 --> 00:18:21,339 he wouldn't give me the time of day. 615 00:18:21,339 --> 00:18:23,339 He did not care for me. 616 00:18:23,339 --> 00:18:25,339 And I was getting older. 617 00:18:27,339 --> 00:18:29,339 All my brothers and sisters that were of age 618 00:18:29,339 --> 00:18:31,339 younger than me were all married 619 00:18:31,339 --> 00:18:33,339 off, and I wasn't. 620 00:18:33,339 --> 00:18:35,339 And Warren wasn't going to let me 621 00:18:35,339 --> 00:18:37,339 get married. 622 00:18:37,339 --> 00:18:39,339 I absolutely saw the writing on the wall. 623 00:18:39,339 --> 00:18:41,339 I knew my future wasn't 624 00:18:41,339 --> 00:18:43,339 here. It's terrifying, 625 00:18:43,339 --> 00:18:45,339 is what it is. It's 626 00:18:45,339 --> 00:18:47,339 walking out into the unknown. And not 627 00:18:47,339 --> 00:18:49,339 only is there just the normal economic 628 00:18:49,339 --> 00:18:51,339 mechanics of life, like how do I 629 00:18:51,339 --> 00:18:53,339 buy fuel and shoes 630 00:18:53,339 --> 00:18:55,339 and housing, there was 631 00:18:55,339 --> 00:18:57,339 also this spiritual 632 00:18:57,339 --> 00:18:59,339 connection to it. My soul's damned. 633 00:18:59,339 --> 00:19:01,339 I'm f***ed. 634 00:19:05,339 --> 00:19:07,339 How old were you when you left 635 00:19:07,339 --> 00:19:09,339 FLDS? I would be 636 00:19:09,339 --> 00:19:11,339 probably about 23 years old. 637 00:19:11,339 --> 00:19:13,339 And how big, how painful a decision 638 00:19:13,339 --> 00:19:15,339 was that? That was the hardest decision 639 00:19:15,339 --> 00:19:17,339 I'd ever made in my life. 640 00:19:17,339 --> 00:19:19,339 I was out there contemplating 641 00:19:19,339 --> 00:19:21,339 my future. It was a rough time for 642 00:19:21,339 --> 00:19:23,339 me. And then, that's when 643 00:19:23,339 --> 00:19:25,339 I met Elisa Wall. 644 00:19:39,339 --> 00:19:41,339 In my opinion, any man that would 645 00:19:41,339 --> 00:19:43,339 marry a 14-year-old girl is 646 00:19:43,339 --> 00:19:45,339 a pedophile. 647 00:19:49,339 --> 00:19:51,339 To speak out 648 00:19:51,339 --> 00:19:53,339 against Warren Jeffs 649 00:19:53,339 --> 00:19:55,339 at this time 650 00:19:55,339 --> 00:19:57,339 was not a very popular decision. 651 00:19:57,339 --> 00:19:59,339 Now, you're the worst of 652 00:19:59,339 --> 00:20:01,339 the worst. Now, you are 653 00:20:01,339 --> 00:20:03,339 the very worst thing that ever happened. 654 00:20:03,339 --> 00:20:05,339 You are shunned. You lose connections 655 00:20:05,339 --> 00:20:07,339 with family. You lose 656 00:20:07,339 --> 00:20:09,339 the right to attend a funeral. 657 00:20:09,339 --> 00:20:11,339 Everything is taken away. 658 00:20:17,339 --> 00:20:19,339 Today, I'm happily married 659 00:20:19,339 --> 00:20:21,339 again to my lovely wife, Ashley. 660 00:20:21,339 --> 00:20:23,339 Her family was here, and 661 00:20:23,339 --> 00:20:25,339 she badly wanted to move here. 662 00:20:25,339 --> 00:20:27,339 I had a lot of friends here. We were spending more and more 663 00:20:27,339 --> 00:20:29,339 time here, and so it made 664 00:20:29,339 --> 00:20:31,339 a lot of sense. And now, 665 00:20:31,339 --> 00:20:33,339 there's a lot of property in Short Creek, 666 00:20:33,339 --> 00:20:35,339 in Hilldale End, in Colorado City, that's 667 00:20:35,339 --> 00:20:37,339 available for purchase. Anybody can come in 668 00:20:37,339 --> 00:20:39,339 there and take advantage of the 669 00:20:39,339 --> 00:20:41,339 ability to purchase that property. 670 00:20:41,339 --> 00:20:43,339 It is cheaper to live here, but the 671 00:20:43,339 --> 00:20:45,339 economy is suppressed. 672 00:20:45,339 --> 00:20:47,339 It's way more difficult to make money here. 673 00:20:47,339 --> 00:20:49,339 And so, my goal 674 00:20:49,339 --> 00:20:51,339 in the community is 675 00:20:51,339 --> 00:20:53,339 to play a role in bringing 676 00:20:53,339 --> 00:20:55,339 the economy back to life. 677 00:20:55,339 --> 00:20:57,339 I want to see this community 678 00:20:57,339 --> 00:20:59,339 in a position where we have finished 679 00:20:59,339 --> 00:21:01,339 homes. I want to see in 680 00:21:01,339 --> 00:21:03,339 ten years from now, a place where 681 00:21:03,339 --> 00:21:05,339 my son can get a job, and 682 00:21:05,339 --> 00:21:07,339 that's the change that needs to take place. 683 00:21:11,339 --> 00:21:13,339 The FLDS are not 684 00:21:13,339 --> 00:21:15,339 too happy about the fact that there's a lot of 685 00:21:15,339 --> 00:21:17,339 us ex-FLDS coming 686 00:21:17,339 --> 00:21:19,339 back home. My entire 687 00:21:19,339 --> 00:21:21,339 lifetime, and my father's entire lifetime, 688 00:21:21,339 --> 00:21:23,339 and my grandfather's entire lifetime, 689 00:21:23,339 --> 00:21:25,339 the FLDS have been calling 690 00:21:25,339 --> 00:21:27,339 the shots. And for the first time in 691 00:21:27,339 --> 00:21:29,339 history, they're not. 692 00:21:29,339 --> 00:21:31,339 And so, they find themselves as the minority 693 00:21:31,339 --> 00:21:33,339 in this community, and I don't think they're very 694 00:21:33,339 --> 00:21:35,339 happy about that. 695 00:21:35,339 --> 00:21:37,339 Today, when former 696 00:21:37,339 --> 00:21:39,339 FLDS are coming back to the community 697 00:21:39,339 --> 00:21:41,339 and offering help in a variety 698 00:21:41,339 --> 00:21:43,339 of ways, the true followers 699 00:21:43,339 --> 00:21:45,339 aren't going to work 700 00:21:45,339 --> 00:21:47,339 with them because they see them 701 00:21:47,339 --> 00:21:49,339 as people who have fallen 702 00:21:49,339 --> 00:21:51,339 from the path. I don't want to say bad 703 00:21:51,339 --> 00:21:53,339 things about them because I hope they're living their lives 704 00:21:53,339 --> 00:21:55,339 and enjoying it. I think someday 705 00:21:55,339 --> 00:21:57,339 things will be ironed out, hopefully, 706 00:21:57,339 --> 00:21:59,339 prayerfully, but I don't think it'll be 707 00:21:59,339 --> 00:22:01,339 ironed out with them here. 708 00:22:01,339 --> 00:22:03,339 Why this whole issue 709 00:22:03,339 --> 00:22:05,339 with the apostates? 710 00:22:05,339 --> 00:22:07,339 With the refusal to 711 00:22:07,339 --> 00:22:09,339 interact, to even, 712 00:22:09,339 --> 00:22:11,339 you know? Well, that comes from 713 00:22:11,339 --> 00:22:13,339 the prophet Brigham Young. 714 00:22:13,339 --> 00:22:15,339 And he said, 715 00:22:15,339 --> 00:22:17,339 leave apostates alone severely. 716 00:22:17,339 --> 00:22:19,339 That means 717 00:22:19,339 --> 00:22:21,339 we don't go out and seek 718 00:22:21,339 --> 00:22:23,339 their company. 719 00:22:23,339 --> 00:22:25,339 That's how I take it. That's how my family 720 00:22:25,339 --> 00:22:27,339 and those around me have taken it. 721 00:22:27,339 --> 00:22:29,339 Are other people taking it a little bit more strictly? 722 00:22:29,339 --> 00:22:31,339 I think as a person that 723 00:22:31,339 --> 00:22:33,339 turns away from the faith, 724 00:22:33,339 --> 00:22:35,339 they have made a choice 725 00:22:35,339 --> 00:22:37,339 to turn away from something that was very 726 00:22:37,339 --> 00:22:39,339 big in their life. And they had 727 00:22:39,339 --> 00:22:41,339 this religion 728 00:22:41,339 --> 00:22:43,339 in their soul, and when it's 729 00:22:43,339 --> 00:22:45,339 gone, it leaves a hole. 730 00:22:45,339 --> 00:22:47,339 And everything hurts. They have 731 00:22:47,339 --> 00:22:49,339 a story to tell, 732 00:22:49,339 --> 00:22:51,339 too. They have heard. 733 00:22:51,339 --> 00:22:53,339 I can see that. How many left? 734 00:22:53,339 --> 00:22:55,339 I have no idea. 735 00:22:55,339 --> 00:22:57,339 I haven't stopped to count. 736 00:22:57,339 --> 00:22:59,339 You have to count on more than your fingers and toes 737 00:22:59,339 --> 00:23:01,339 to get that many. What does that tell you? 738 00:23:01,339 --> 00:23:03,339 That tells me that 739 00:23:03,339 --> 00:23:05,339 we have been going through a lot 740 00:23:05,339 --> 00:23:07,339 of turmoil and drama 741 00:23:07,339 --> 00:23:09,339 in our lives. And some people 742 00:23:09,339 --> 00:23:11,339 that leave, leave because they just 743 00:23:11,339 --> 00:23:13,339 can't handle it any longer. 744 00:23:13,339 --> 00:23:15,339 It is 745 00:23:15,339 --> 00:23:17,339 fierce. 746 00:23:21,339 --> 00:23:23,339 Just don't let that 747 00:23:23,339 --> 00:23:25,339 bar fall on you. 748 00:23:25,339 --> 00:23:27,339 I don't know. 749 00:23:27,339 --> 00:23:29,339 We're going to see. 750 00:23:29,339 --> 00:23:31,339 It's strange, but it doesn't say no trespassing. 751 00:23:35,339 --> 00:23:37,339 See all the cobwebs? 752 00:23:39,339 --> 00:23:41,339 They're nice and thick. 753 00:23:41,339 --> 00:23:43,339 Just a few black widows. 754 00:23:43,339 --> 00:23:45,339 This is really fascinating. 755 00:23:45,339 --> 00:23:47,339 It's nice to look at as 756 00:23:47,339 --> 00:23:49,339 an adult. 757 00:23:49,339 --> 00:23:51,339 It was a storage area, 758 00:23:51,339 --> 00:23:53,339 kind of a fallout area. 759 00:23:53,339 --> 00:23:55,339 Are there rumors about this place? 760 00:23:55,339 --> 00:23:57,339 Yes, there are. Well, I heard 761 00:23:57,339 --> 00:23:59,339 that there was an arsenal of 762 00:23:59,339 --> 00:24:01,339 guns that were 763 00:24:01,339 --> 00:24:03,339 up here, and we were ready to blow 764 00:24:03,339 --> 00:24:05,339 everybody to pieces. 765 00:24:05,339 --> 00:24:07,339 So they came in, checked it 766 00:24:07,339 --> 00:24:09,339 out. I think they found a few 767 00:24:09,339 --> 00:24:11,339 hunting rifles and probably a lot of 768 00:24:11,339 --> 00:24:13,339 pinto beans and tomato sauce 769 00:24:13,339 --> 00:24:15,339 and canned fruit. 770 00:24:15,339 --> 00:24:17,339 Anybody hungry? 771 00:24:17,339 --> 00:24:19,339 These lands are 772 00:24:19,339 --> 00:24:21,339 very much similar to 773 00:24:21,339 --> 00:24:23,339 maybe an Indian burial ground. 774 00:24:23,339 --> 00:24:25,339 So when 775 00:24:25,339 --> 00:24:27,339 there is an evicted 776 00:24:27,339 --> 00:24:29,339 building, they feel as if 777 00:24:29,339 --> 00:24:31,339 somebody stole their 778 00:24:31,339 --> 00:24:33,339 sacred burial ground. 779 00:24:39,339 --> 00:24:41,339 In 2015, 780 00:24:41,339 --> 00:24:43,339 there was a terrible flash flood 781 00:24:43,339 --> 00:24:45,339 here in Short Creek, and it claimed 782 00:24:45,339 --> 00:24:47,339 the lives of mothers and children. 783 00:24:47,339 --> 00:24:49,339 So I drove to Short Creek 784 00:24:49,339 --> 00:24:51,339 from Las Vegas, where I lived, 785 00:24:51,339 --> 00:24:53,339 and I brought in cases of Gatorade. 786 00:24:53,339 --> 00:24:55,339 It was like going 787 00:24:55,339 --> 00:24:57,339 back in time. I was among people 788 00:24:57,339 --> 00:24:59,339 who were living a very simple 789 00:24:59,339 --> 00:25:01,339 life, and I had the desire to 790 00:25:01,339 --> 00:25:03,339 come back and help them. Eventually 791 00:25:03,339 --> 00:25:05,339 the desire to move here was so strong, 792 00:25:05,339 --> 00:25:07,339 I came out here and I rented 793 00:25:07,339 --> 00:25:09,339 this building. 794 00:25:09,339 --> 00:25:11,339 They need food. They need 795 00:25:11,339 --> 00:25:13,339 jobs. They need places to live. 796 00:25:13,339 --> 00:25:15,339 They need everything 797 00:25:15,339 --> 00:25:17,339 a humanitarian center would provide. 798 00:25:17,339 --> 00:25:19,339 I'm helping a group of people 799 00:25:19,339 --> 00:25:21,339 that the world 800 00:25:21,339 --> 00:25:23,339 believes is in a very 801 00:25:23,339 --> 00:25:25,339 dangerous cult. 802 00:25:25,339 --> 00:25:27,339 We've helped over a thousand FLDS people 803 00:25:27,339 --> 00:25:29,339 who were in desperate 804 00:25:29,339 --> 00:25:31,339 need of some of the things that we 805 00:25:31,339 --> 00:25:33,339 provided. Like what? 806 00:25:33,339 --> 00:25:35,339 Well, like shoes, food, 807 00:25:35,339 --> 00:25:37,339 educational curriculum. 808 00:25:37,339 --> 00:25:39,339 What's your opinion of Warren 809 00:25:39,339 --> 00:25:41,339 Jeffs? 810 00:25:41,339 --> 00:25:43,339 My opinion of Warren Jeffs is that 811 00:25:43,339 --> 00:25:45,339 he, because 812 00:25:45,339 --> 00:25:47,339 he is their leader, 813 00:25:47,339 --> 00:25:49,339 and they believe in him, 814 00:25:49,339 --> 00:25:51,339 then I am not going to 815 00:25:51,339 --> 00:25:53,339 ever publicly make 816 00:25:53,339 --> 00:25:55,339 any negative statements about him. 817 00:25:55,339 --> 00:25:57,339 And that's something that 818 00:25:57,339 --> 00:25:59,339 I've kept my word. I won't 819 00:25:59,339 --> 00:26:01,339 be disrespectful to them. 820 00:26:01,339 --> 00:26:03,339 You know, whether he's good or bad, 821 00:26:03,339 --> 00:26:05,339 he's probably both just like 822 00:26:05,339 --> 00:26:07,339 everybody else. 823 00:26:07,339 --> 00:26:09,339 I am keenly 824 00:26:09,339 --> 00:26:11,339 aware of the crimes 825 00:26:11,339 --> 00:26:13,339 that Warren Jeffs has contributed 826 00:26:13,339 --> 00:26:15,339 to Warren Jeffs. 827 00:26:15,339 --> 00:26:17,339 I am also keenly 828 00:26:17,339 --> 00:26:19,339 aware that the people here 829 00:26:19,339 --> 00:26:21,339 have stories where he's 830 00:26:21,339 --> 00:26:23,339 the hero. In my position, 831 00:26:25,339 --> 00:26:27,339 I don't have 832 00:26:27,339 --> 00:26:29,339 the goal of 833 00:26:29,339 --> 00:26:31,339 trying to get 834 00:26:31,339 --> 00:26:33,339 these people to no 835 00:26:33,339 --> 00:26:35,339 longer see him 836 00:26:35,339 --> 00:26:37,339 as a prophet. 837 00:26:37,339 --> 00:26:39,339 My job is to help them. 838 00:26:39,339 --> 00:26:41,339 My goal is 839 00:26:41,339 --> 00:26:43,339 to see what he can do to help 840 00:26:43,339 --> 00:26:45,339 us. He's a very resourceful guy. 841 00:26:45,339 --> 00:26:47,339 We need housing. 842 00:26:47,339 --> 00:26:49,339 We need headphones. 843 00:26:49,339 --> 00:26:51,339 We need more computers. We need more 844 00:26:51,339 --> 00:26:53,339 books. They feel driven 845 00:26:53,339 --> 00:26:55,339 out. They feel unwelcome. 846 00:26:55,339 --> 00:26:57,339 They see their house that was 847 00:26:57,339 --> 00:26:59,339 evicted sitting there empty for a year. 848 00:26:59,339 --> 00:27:01,339 That makes them feel invisible. 849 00:27:01,339 --> 00:27:03,339 When I first integrated back into this 850 00:27:03,339 --> 00:27:05,339 community, I didn't feel welcome at all. 851 00:27:05,339 --> 00:27:07,339 I had some very, very, very 852 00:27:07,339 --> 00:27:09,339 bad things said to me 853 00:27:09,339 --> 00:27:11,339 in public places. I got called 854 00:27:11,339 --> 00:27:13,339 a liar, a cheat. 855 00:27:13,339 --> 00:27:15,339 Everybody needs to feel welcome. 856 00:27:15,339 --> 00:27:17,339 I mean, absolutely. 857 00:27:17,339 --> 00:27:19,339 But two wrongs don't make a right. You know, 858 00:27:19,339 --> 00:27:21,339 let's take the higher road. 859 00:27:21,339 --> 00:27:23,339 I like what Christine's trying to 860 00:27:23,339 --> 00:27:25,339 do. These were my family, 861 00:27:25,339 --> 00:27:27,339 my brothers, my sisters, my uncles, my aunts. 862 00:27:27,339 --> 00:27:29,339 I want to see them again. 863 00:27:29,339 --> 00:27:31,339 We have these real issues to deal 864 00:27:31,339 --> 00:27:33,339 with in this community today. 865 00:27:33,339 --> 00:27:35,339 And it doesn't matter who the hell 866 00:27:35,339 --> 00:27:37,339 did what yesterday. It's irrelevant. 867 00:27:37,339 --> 00:27:39,339 All we want is 868 00:27:39,339 --> 00:27:41,339 I want to see my sisters. 869 00:27:41,339 --> 00:27:43,339 I want to 870 00:27:43,339 --> 00:27:45,339 know my cousins. I want 871 00:27:45,339 --> 00:27:47,339 a freedom of exchange 872 00:27:47,339 --> 00:27:49,339 of information. 873 00:27:49,339 --> 00:27:51,339 Deescalate the fear. 874 00:27:51,339 --> 00:27:53,339 Let's make a common commitment. 875 00:27:53,339 --> 00:27:55,339 I won't attack you. 876 00:27:55,339 --> 00:27:57,339 You don't attack me. 877 00:27:57,339 --> 00:27:59,339 Let's have a conversation. 878 00:27:59,339 --> 00:28:01,339 And miracles can happen. 879 00:28:01,339 --> 00:28:03,339 What Christine is 880 00:28:03,339 --> 00:28:05,339 setting up, I think, is pivotal 881 00:28:05,339 --> 00:28:07,339 because even though she doesn't realize 882 00:28:07,339 --> 00:28:09,339 that, and maybe she does, and maybe this is why 883 00:28:09,339 --> 00:28:11,339 she's doing it, she's creating a platform 884 00:28:11,339 --> 00:28:13,339 that's a 885 00:28:13,339 --> 00:28:15,339 mutual respect. And that's 886 00:28:15,339 --> 00:28:17,339 where constructive conversation can take 887 00:28:17,339 --> 00:28:19,339 place. And up until now, 888 00:28:19,339 --> 00:28:21,339 I haven't seen a platform where that's possible. 889 00:28:21,339 --> 00:28:23,339 Where the FLDS 890 00:28:23,339 --> 00:28:25,339 would be willing to even walk into a room 891 00:28:25,339 --> 00:28:27,339 with me. 892 00:28:27,339 --> 00:28:29,339 Wow. 893 00:28:33,339 --> 00:28:35,339 Hi, Shirley. 894 00:28:35,339 --> 00:28:37,339 How you doing? 895 00:28:37,339 --> 00:28:39,339 We're headed up to the property 896 00:28:39,339 --> 00:28:41,339 right now. I was hoping that Jeff could meet 897 00:28:41,339 --> 00:28:43,339 us there. 898 00:28:43,339 --> 00:28:45,339 Oh, you're there. 899 00:28:45,339 --> 00:28:47,339 Fantastic. Excellent. 900 00:28:47,339 --> 00:28:49,339 Okay. We'll see you in a minute. 901 00:28:57,339 --> 00:28:59,339 So we're currently 902 00:28:59,339 --> 00:29:01,339 involved in several 903 00:29:01,339 --> 00:29:03,339 transactions with regards to trying to 904 00:29:03,339 --> 00:29:05,339 bring services back to the community. 905 00:29:05,339 --> 00:29:07,339 I think the one I'm the most 906 00:29:07,339 --> 00:29:09,339 passionate about is 907 00:29:09,339 --> 00:29:11,339 the medical clinic. 908 00:29:11,339 --> 00:29:13,339 A lot of people in this community were born there. 909 00:29:13,339 --> 00:29:15,339 And so it's a very 910 00:29:15,339 --> 00:29:17,339 iconic piece of property. 911 00:29:17,339 --> 00:29:19,339 It's also a very controversial 912 00:29:19,339 --> 00:29:21,339 property. And I don't think 913 00:29:21,339 --> 00:29:23,339 the FLDS are going to appreciate 914 00:29:23,339 --> 00:29:25,339 my involvement at all. 915 00:29:27,339 --> 00:29:29,339 See, it's been evicted. You can see the 916 00:29:29,339 --> 00:29:31,339 signs in the window. 917 00:29:31,339 --> 00:29:33,339 Just stop a second here. 918 00:29:33,339 --> 00:29:35,339 This is where I was born. 919 00:29:35,339 --> 00:29:37,339 It's where my children were born, most of them 920 00:29:37,339 --> 00:29:39,339 that weren't born in a hospital. 921 00:29:39,339 --> 00:29:41,339 And this is where our maternity ward was 922 00:29:41,339 --> 00:29:43,339 and it was the bishop's office. 923 00:29:43,339 --> 00:29:45,339 And there was over 924 00:29:45,339 --> 00:29:47,339 185 people 925 00:29:47,339 --> 00:29:49,339 living here when it was evicted. 926 00:29:49,339 --> 00:29:51,339 Is it painful to come back here? 927 00:29:53,339 --> 00:29:55,339 It is. It hurts. Very. 928 00:29:55,339 --> 00:29:57,339 To see it like this. 929 00:29:57,339 --> 00:29:59,339 I've heard that they're opening it back up 930 00:29:59,339 --> 00:30:01,339 for a clinic, but 931 00:30:01,339 --> 00:30:03,339 I'm not going to go there. 932 00:30:03,339 --> 00:30:05,339 My family won't use that clinic. 933 00:30:05,339 --> 00:30:07,339 None of 934 00:30:07,339 --> 00:30:09,339 the FLDS people will use that clinic. 935 00:30:09,339 --> 00:30:11,339 If we have places taken 936 00:30:11,339 --> 00:30:13,339 from us where we're evicted, 937 00:30:13,339 --> 00:30:15,339 then someone moves in 938 00:30:15,339 --> 00:30:17,339 and lives there 939 00:30:17,339 --> 00:30:19,339 or creates another business 940 00:30:19,339 --> 00:30:21,339 or creates a business where it wasn't, 941 00:30:21,339 --> 00:30:23,339 we won't go there. 942 00:30:23,339 --> 00:30:25,339 Why? Because it's 943 00:30:25,339 --> 00:30:27,339 apostates. 944 00:30:27,339 --> 00:30:29,339 These are the people that come back and say 945 00:30:29,339 --> 00:30:31,339 we are here for everybody. 946 00:30:31,339 --> 00:30:33,339 We want to rebuild this community 947 00:30:33,339 --> 00:30:35,339 and I'm like, rebuild? 948 00:30:35,339 --> 00:30:37,339 You just tore it down. 949 00:30:37,339 --> 00:30:39,339 And this used to be a 950 00:30:39,339 --> 00:30:41,339 hopping place. There was a lot of people 951 00:30:41,339 --> 00:30:43,339 coming through here, you know, 10 years ago. 952 00:30:43,339 --> 00:30:45,339 And so the need is 953 00:30:45,339 --> 00:30:47,339 definitely there. 954 00:30:47,339 --> 00:30:49,339 As a group, the FLDS 955 00:30:49,339 --> 00:30:51,339 have been quite adverse 956 00:30:51,339 --> 00:30:53,339 to former members. 957 00:30:53,339 --> 00:30:55,339 One thing I have observed, though, 958 00:30:55,339 --> 00:30:57,339 is that there's a narrative 959 00:30:57,339 --> 00:30:59,339 of victimhood that really works 960 00:30:59,339 --> 00:31:01,339 for some people. And as long 961 00:31:01,339 --> 00:31:03,339 as they're being persecuted, and we were told 962 00:31:03,339 --> 00:31:05,339 this when we were children, when we're being 963 00:31:05,339 --> 00:31:07,339 persecuted, we know that God is testing 964 00:31:07,339 --> 00:31:09,339 us and that we're God's true 965 00:31:09,339 --> 00:31:11,339 and chosen people because 966 00:31:11,339 --> 00:31:13,339 he's not trying anybody else. 967 00:31:13,339 --> 00:31:15,339 Everybody else has it easy. 968 00:31:15,339 --> 00:31:17,339 Is this a test of your faith? 969 00:31:17,339 --> 00:31:19,339 Oh, it's very much a test of our endurance. 970 00:31:19,339 --> 00:31:21,339 My faith is always 971 00:31:21,339 --> 00:31:23,339 going to be there, but I think it has been a test 972 00:31:23,339 --> 00:31:25,339 on some people. And, you know, 973 00:31:25,339 --> 00:31:27,339 they think, is this worth living this way or should I 974 00:31:27,339 --> 00:31:29,339 take the easier road and just 975 00:31:29,339 --> 00:31:31,339 leave and everybody will help me 976 00:31:31,339 --> 00:31:33,339 and love me because I'm not FLDS. 977 00:31:33,339 --> 00:31:35,339 Honestly, 978 00:31:35,339 --> 00:31:37,339 I love my religion 979 00:31:37,339 --> 00:31:39,339 so much and I 980 00:31:39,339 --> 00:31:41,339 want to live it. That 981 00:31:41,339 --> 00:31:43,339 even if I'm tested severely, 982 00:31:43,339 --> 00:31:45,339 I'd rather come out on the good end. 983 00:31:45,339 --> 00:31:47,339 I'd rather live like Job 984 00:31:47,339 --> 00:31:49,339 and be welcomed into the arms 985 00:31:49,339 --> 00:31:51,339 of the Savior than to say, well, 986 00:31:51,339 --> 00:31:53,339 I'll just take the easy road. The rest of you guys, 987 00:31:53,339 --> 00:31:55,339 if you want to come, come along. 988 00:31:55,339 --> 00:31:57,339 I can't do that. 989 00:31:59,339 --> 00:32:01,339 So there you go. Will you make me a copy of that? 990 00:32:01,339 --> 00:32:03,339 Yeah, this one. 991 00:32:09,339 --> 00:32:11,339 Is he charismatic, Warren Jeffs? 992 00:32:11,339 --> 00:32:13,339 I mean, every other leader of every other 993 00:32:13,339 --> 00:32:15,339 group is... 994 00:32:15,339 --> 00:32:17,339 To them, he's charismatic. I mean, they have a charismatic 995 00:32:17,339 --> 00:32:19,339 relationship with him, meaning that 996 00:32:19,339 --> 00:32:21,339 he's their authority. 997 00:32:21,339 --> 00:32:23,339 He can do no wrong. He is 998 00:32:23,339 --> 00:32:25,339 not to be questioned. And, 999 00:32:25,339 --> 00:32:27,339 you know, certainly he doesn't look 1000 00:32:27,339 --> 00:32:29,339 charismatic to us when we have 1001 00:32:29,339 --> 00:32:31,339 our sort of secular view of what 1002 00:32:31,339 --> 00:32:33,339 charisma means. He's just a scrawny 1003 00:32:33,339 --> 00:32:35,339 sort of character. But by being the 1004 00:32:35,339 --> 00:32:37,339 prophet, he is the spokesperson for 1005 00:32:37,339 --> 00:32:39,339 God. Well, that gives him 1006 00:32:39,339 --> 00:32:41,339 already an imbalance of power, 1007 00:32:41,339 --> 00:32:43,339 which is what a charismatic relationship is. 1008 00:32:43,339 --> 00:32:45,339 You're talking about third and fourth 1009 00:32:45,339 --> 00:32:47,339 generations that are going in there 1010 00:32:47,339 --> 00:32:49,339 and talking to this man who can 1011 00:32:49,339 --> 00:32:51,339 make or break them in a second. 1012 00:32:51,339 --> 00:32:53,339 All he has to do is say one word, 1013 00:32:53,339 --> 00:32:55,339 and they have 1014 00:32:55,339 --> 00:32:57,339 lost everything. They've lost 1015 00:32:57,339 --> 00:32:59,339 their family, their home, their 1016 00:32:59,339 --> 00:33:01,339 job, and they 1017 00:33:01,339 --> 00:33:03,339 they're done. 1018 00:33:03,339 --> 00:33:05,339 That's the kind of power he had. 1019 00:33:05,339 --> 00:33:07,339 And so you don't have to be 1020 00:33:07,339 --> 00:33:09,339 charismatic when you have people's 1021 00:33:09,339 --> 00:33:11,339 brains wrapped around a stick that hard. 1022 00:33:15,339 --> 00:33:17,339 It's small, but it's all we got. 1023 00:33:17,339 --> 00:33:19,339 We have the media center. 1024 00:33:19,339 --> 00:33:21,339 They're all online. 1025 00:33:21,339 --> 00:33:23,339 Over here we have like books for the mothers 1026 00:33:23,339 --> 00:33:25,339 for like homeschooling resources 1027 00:33:25,339 --> 00:33:27,339 because they don't have the money they used to have. 1028 00:33:27,339 --> 00:33:29,339 They don't get free curriculum like they used to. 1029 00:33:39,339 --> 00:33:41,339 Well, I would love to help 1030 00:33:41,339 --> 00:33:43,339 get some new computers. 1031 00:33:43,339 --> 00:33:45,339 You bet we do. These are Windows 7. 1032 00:33:45,339 --> 00:33:47,339 They don't have cameras. 1033 00:33:47,339 --> 00:33:49,339 Let's get you something that has like 1034 00:33:49,339 --> 00:33:51,339 Windows 10 on it and some of that. 1035 00:33:51,339 --> 00:33:53,339 So you can even do like the FaceTime. 1036 00:33:53,339 --> 00:33:55,339 I'd love to help. 1037 00:33:55,339 --> 00:33:57,339 I think the more that people 1038 00:33:57,339 --> 00:33:59,339 understand the mission that you guys 1039 00:33:59,339 --> 00:34:01,339 have, I think you're going to find 1040 00:34:01,339 --> 00:34:03,339 that there's a lot of support out there for that. 1041 00:34:03,339 --> 00:34:05,339 Right. You know, this is a community 1042 00:34:05,339 --> 00:34:07,339 where there has been a lot of us versus them. 1043 00:34:07,339 --> 00:34:09,340 Exactly. 1044 00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:11,340 And even if you're out of the church, they're still doing it. 1045 00:34:11,340 --> 00:34:13,340 You know, and we don't, we love everybody. 1046 00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:15,340 We're not going to say, 1047 00:34:15,340 --> 00:34:17,340 wait, are you in or are you out 1048 00:34:17,340 --> 00:34:19,340 before we decide whether to help you? 1049 00:34:19,340 --> 00:34:21,340 It's small, but you know what? 1050 00:34:21,340 --> 00:34:23,340 All good things come from little seeds. 1051 00:34:23,340 --> 00:34:25,340 Well, it's bursting. 1052 00:34:25,340 --> 00:34:27,340 Sometimes we have 20 people in here. 1053 00:34:27,340 --> 00:34:29,340 You know, and aren't we bursting, you guys? 1054 00:34:29,340 --> 00:34:31,340 Come here. 1055 00:34:31,340 --> 00:34:33,340 This is, do you know her? 1056 00:34:33,340 --> 00:34:35,340 I do not. 1057 00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:37,340 This is Angela Beisling. 1058 00:34:37,340 --> 00:34:39,340 David Beisling. 1059 00:34:39,340 --> 00:34:41,340 Angela Beisling. David. 1060 00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:43,340 Okay, I know your dad. 1061 00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:45,340 This is Lamont, and this is Kendall. 1062 00:34:45,340 --> 00:34:47,340 Hello. 1063 00:34:47,340 --> 00:34:49,340 Good to meet you. 1064 00:34:49,340 --> 00:34:51,340 You too. 1065 00:34:51,340 --> 00:34:53,340 This is Natalie. Hi, Natalie. Good to meet you. 1066 00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:55,340 He came into my center, 1067 00:34:55,340 --> 00:34:57,340 and we showed him what we were doing, 1068 00:34:57,340 --> 00:34:59,340 and he was like dumbfounded. 1069 00:34:59,340 --> 00:35:01,340 Then the FLDS came in. 1070 00:35:01,340 --> 00:35:03,340 I thought my heart was going to pound out of my chest. 1071 00:35:03,340 --> 00:35:05,340 Do you know him? 1072 00:35:05,340 --> 00:35:07,340 I don't recognize any of them. 1073 00:35:07,340 --> 00:35:09,340 You've changed a little. 1074 00:35:09,340 --> 00:35:11,340 Do you know Norma? 1075 00:35:11,340 --> 00:35:13,340 Yeah, I remember Norma back then. 1076 00:35:13,340 --> 00:35:15,340 They all remember me. I'm kind of an older... 1077 00:35:15,340 --> 00:35:17,340 Yeah, it's good to see you guys. 1078 00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:19,340 Does this Norma Lamont have apostates 1079 00:35:19,340 --> 00:35:21,340 in the term? 1080 00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:25,340 In my long history, 1081 00:35:25,340 --> 00:35:27,340 and I've been involved in all of this, 1082 00:35:27,340 --> 00:35:29,340 this has never happened to me in my life, ever. 1083 00:35:29,340 --> 00:35:31,340 The fact that we're standing here doing this 1084 00:35:31,340 --> 00:35:33,340 is, honestly, 1085 00:35:33,340 --> 00:35:35,340 if someone would have told me 10 years ago 1086 00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:37,340 that this would happen, 1087 00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:39,340 I would have said you were completely nuts. 1088 00:35:39,340 --> 00:35:41,340 This is why I like 1089 00:35:41,340 --> 00:35:43,340 what Christine's trying to do. 1090 00:35:43,340 --> 00:35:45,340 She's taking away that pressure, 1091 00:35:45,340 --> 00:35:47,340 that constant, you're wrong, 1092 00:35:47,340 --> 00:35:49,340 making them feel like 1093 00:35:49,340 --> 00:35:51,340 they're not under constant attack, 1094 00:35:51,340 --> 00:35:53,340 and that I can be open. 1095 00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:55,340 I can have a conversation with somebody 1096 00:35:55,340 --> 00:35:57,340 that isn't apostate. 1097 00:35:57,340 --> 00:35:59,340 The two of you sitting here right now 1098 00:35:59,340 --> 00:36:03,340 is unprecedented in an extent. 1099 00:36:03,340 --> 00:36:05,340 What do you hope to accomplish, both of you? 1100 00:36:05,340 --> 00:36:07,340 My effort in returning to the community 1101 00:36:07,340 --> 00:36:09,340 is I want to see 1102 00:36:09,340 --> 00:36:11,340 the economy revitalized. 1103 00:36:11,340 --> 00:36:13,340 I want to see common respect. 1104 00:36:13,340 --> 00:36:15,340 Let's go have Thanksgiving dinner 1105 00:36:15,340 --> 00:36:17,340 like a family. 1106 00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:19,340 And that would be the end game. 1107 00:36:19,340 --> 00:36:21,340 And there's all kinds of families 1108 00:36:21,340 --> 00:36:23,340 in America that have diverse beliefs 1109 00:36:23,340 --> 00:36:25,340 in their families. 1110 00:36:25,340 --> 00:36:27,340 There are Mormons and Baptists 1111 00:36:27,340 --> 00:36:29,340 and Buddhists and whatever. 1112 00:36:29,340 --> 00:36:31,340 And they all can get together 1113 00:36:31,340 --> 00:36:33,340 and have a good old Christmas party. 1114 00:36:33,340 --> 00:36:35,340 That's what I'd like to see happen. 1115 00:36:35,340 --> 00:36:37,340 And I believe it can happen. 1116 00:36:37,340 --> 00:36:39,340 I really do believe that. 1117 00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:41,340 Really? 1118 00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:43,340 I do believe it, yeah. 1119 00:36:43,340 --> 00:36:45,340 Do you think this is a pipe dream of Lamont's? 1120 00:36:45,340 --> 00:36:47,340 I'm glad he dreams. 1121 00:36:47,340 --> 00:36:49,340 What's so wrong with that dream, Norma? 1122 00:36:49,340 --> 00:36:51,340 What is so wrong with that? 1123 00:36:51,340 --> 00:36:53,340 There's nothing wrong with him dreaming. 1124 00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:55,340 I'm not a pipe dreamer. 1125 00:36:55,340 --> 00:36:57,340 No, about being able to 1126 00:36:57,340 --> 00:36:59,340 trust and 1127 00:36:59,340 --> 00:37:01,340 share the world, so to speak, 1128 00:37:01,340 --> 00:37:03,340 as well as Thanksgiving. 1129 00:37:03,340 --> 00:37:05,340 It's a lot deeper. 1130 00:37:05,340 --> 00:37:07,340 There's a lot of pain 1131 00:37:07,340 --> 00:37:09,340 on both sides. 1132 00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:11,340 Where 1133 00:37:11,340 --> 00:37:13,340 I know it sounds like the ideal 1134 00:37:13,340 --> 00:37:15,340 and I hear you, 1135 00:37:15,340 --> 00:37:17,340 but 1136 00:37:17,340 --> 00:37:19,340 you know, and I'm thinking, 1137 00:37:19,340 --> 00:37:21,340 gracious, our lands are gone. 1138 00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:23,340 Our buildings are being taken. 1139 00:37:23,340 --> 00:37:25,340 There's lots of things 1140 00:37:25,340 --> 00:37:27,340 that we can't do. 1141 00:37:27,340 --> 00:37:29,340 Our buildings are being taken. 1142 00:37:29,340 --> 00:37:31,340 There's lots of empty ones sitting there 1143 00:37:31,340 --> 00:37:33,340 while people are suffering outside of the community 1144 00:37:33,340 --> 00:37:35,340 that he probably doesn't even realize 1145 00:37:35,340 --> 00:37:37,340 I do because I know them. 1146 00:37:37,340 --> 00:37:39,340 And they're going without. 1147 00:37:45,340 --> 00:37:47,340 Comfort and strength, 1148 00:37:47,340 --> 00:37:49,340 and they say comfort and strength. 1149 00:37:51,340 --> 00:37:53,340 You have to know how to be 1150 00:37:53,340 --> 00:37:55,340 excited sexually 1151 00:37:55,340 --> 00:37:57,340 and to be excited. 1152 00:37:57,340 --> 00:37:59,340 To administer that comfort and strength. 1153 00:38:01,340 --> 00:38:03,340 You have to be able to assist each other. 1154 00:38:05,340 --> 00:38:07,340 No one just stands around. 1155 00:38:07,340 --> 00:38:09,340 Everyone 1156 00:38:09,340 --> 00:38:11,340 assists. 1157 00:38:11,340 --> 00:38:13,340 And you have to be prepared 1158 00:38:13,340 --> 00:38:15,340 and be trained to do this. 1159 00:38:17,340 --> 00:38:19,340 I feel like really good people 1160 00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:21,340 had their honest and sincere 1161 00:38:21,340 --> 00:38:23,340 beliefs manipulated 1162 00:38:23,340 --> 00:38:25,340 and used against them. 1163 00:38:25,340 --> 00:38:27,340 Norma? 1164 00:38:27,340 --> 00:38:29,340 Wow. 1165 00:38:31,340 --> 00:38:33,340 I don't feel like I'm manipulated. 1166 00:38:33,340 --> 00:38:35,340 And there's never 1167 00:38:35,340 --> 00:38:37,340 within you a seed of doubt? 1168 00:38:37,340 --> 00:38:39,340 Absolutely not. 1169 00:38:39,340 --> 00:38:41,340 There's never been a time when there's been 1170 00:38:41,340 --> 00:38:43,340 an edict or a, I won't say 1171 00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:45,340 ruling, but the decision 1172 00:38:45,340 --> 00:38:47,340 that's come down and you thought 1173 00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:49,340 that doesn't seem 1174 00:38:49,340 --> 00:38:51,340 right. You are an educated 1175 00:38:51,340 --> 00:38:53,340 person. You are not a 1176 00:38:53,340 --> 00:38:55,340 blind 1177 00:38:55,340 --> 00:38:57,340 mouse 1178 00:38:57,340 --> 00:38:59,340 following, 1179 00:38:59,340 --> 00:39:01,340 not knowing better. And you've never 1180 00:39:01,340 --> 00:39:03,340 once had any moment of doubt. 1181 00:39:03,340 --> 00:39:05,340 No. Not even. 1182 00:39:07,340 --> 00:39:09,340 And if it came down to me being the last 1183 00:39:09,340 --> 00:39:11,340 family FLDS in the community, 1184 00:39:11,340 --> 00:39:13,340 I would have a hard time wanting to stay. 1185 00:39:13,340 --> 00:39:15,340 I need my 1186 00:39:15,340 --> 00:39:17,340 religion. I need it. 1187 00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:19,340 I want it. 1188 00:39:19,340 --> 00:39:21,340 And no, 1189 00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:23,340 I probably wouldn't go and have 1190 00:39:23,340 --> 00:39:25,340 Christmas dinner with my 1191 00:39:25,340 --> 00:39:27,340 ex-members 1192 00:39:27,340 --> 00:39:29,340 of the church and stuff. But it doesn't mean I 1193 00:39:29,340 --> 00:39:31,340 don't love them. It doesn't mean 1194 00:39:31,340 --> 00:39:33,340 that I don't want them to have happiness. 1195 00:39:33,340 --> 00:39:35,340 It just can't be with you. 1196 00:39:35,340 --> 00:39:37,340 It just can't be. 1197 00:39:39,340 --> 00:39:41,340 You know, honestly, I don't hate 1198 00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:43,340 them. I wish the very 1199 00:39:43,340 --> 00:39:45,340 best for them. I pray for them. I want 1200 00:39:45,340 --> 00:39:47,340 them to be happy. I 1201 00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:49,340 just don't think they have the right to be 1202 00:39:49,340 --> 00:39:51,340 on 1203 00:39:51,340 --> 00:39:53,340 consecrated land. 1204 00:39:53,340 --> 00:39:55,340 If you make a choice, 1205 00:39:55,340 --> 00:39:57,340 and you can, it's 1206 00:39:57,340 --> 00:39:59,340 freedom. We have just as much freedom 1207 00:39:59,340 --> 00:40:01,340 there as we do anywhere else. You can make whatever 1208 00:40:01,340 --> 00:40:03,340 choice you want. You still don't 1209 00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:05,340 get to come and keep the 1210 00:40:05,340 --> 00:40:07,340 land. 1211 00:40:07,340 --> 00:40:09,340 Boy, we got here just 1212 00:40:09,340 --> 00:40:11,340 in time. 1213 00:40:11,340 --> 00:40:13,340 The land belongs to Heavenly Father. 1214 00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:15,340 Fireworks. Heavenly 1215 00:40:15,340 --> 00:40:17,340 Father's fireworks. Yep. 1216 00:40:17,340 --> 00:40:19,340 It's a perfect place. 1217 00:40:21,340 --> 00:40:23,340 It was dedicated to him by 1218 00:40:23,340 --> 00:40:25,340 our fathers and grandfathers, 1219 00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:27,340 and it belongs to him. 1220 00:40:27,340 --> 00:40:29,340 It doesn't belong to me. It doesn't 1221 00:40:29,340 --> 00:40:31,340 belong to anyone else. 1222 00:40:31,340 --> 00:40:33,340 But we'll never feel fully 1223 00:40:33,340 --> 00:40:35,340 complete without the prophet. 1224 00:40:39,340 --> 00:40:41,340 There are still 1225 00:40:41,340 --> 00:40:43,340 members of the FLDS who believe 1226 00:40:43,340 --> 00:40:45,340 that the prophet who has 1227 00:40:45,340 --> 00:40:47,340 been born and 1228 00:40:47,340 --> 00:40:49,340 born, Jeffs, is 1229 00:40:49,340 --> 00:40:51,340 a prophet, 1230 00:40:51,340 --> 00:40:53,340 a holy man. They revere 1231 00:40:53,340 --> 00:40:55,340 him. This is a group that 1232 00:40:55,340 --> 00:40:57,340 doesn't recruit. So it's 1233 00:40:57,340 --> 00:40:59,340 not like they're recruiting somebody who's 1234 00:40:59,340 --> 00:41:01,340 30 who's having... Everybody's born into this. 1235 00:41:01,340 --> 00:41:03,340 Everybody's born into it. 1236 00:41:03,340 --> 00:41:05,340 You just saw Norma. She's an 1237 00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:07,340 educated, smart woman 1238 00:41:07,340 --> 00:41:09,340 who refuses to 1239 00:41:09,340 --> 00:41:11,340 believe all the evidence. 1240 00:41:11,340 --> 00:41:13,340 She has looked at it. She refuses to believe. 1241 00:41:13,340 --> 00:41:15,340 Because she is enveloped 1242 00:41:15,340 --> 00:41:17,340 in this, what I call this 1243 00:41:17,340 --> 00:41:19,340 bounded reality. She's in a very 1244 00:41:19,340 --> 00:41:21,340 closed world. So it's very... 1245 00:41:21,340 --> 00:41:23,340 I mean, she said herself, I need this 1246 00:41:23,340 --> 00:41:25,340 religion. 1247 00:41:25,340 --> 00:41:27,340 For her to face something different 1248 00:41:27,340 --> 00:41:29,340 would be more shattering to her 1249 00:41:29,340 --> 00:41:31,340 than just staying where she is, 1250 00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:33,340 probably knowing in the back of her mind 1251 00:41:33,340 --> 00:41:35,340 that there's a great deal of truth to it. 1252 00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:37,340 She just can't look at it. 1253 00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:39,340 So you're saying that because her world 1254 00:41:39,340 --> 00:41:41,340 is so closed, her mind is closed. 1255 00:41:41,340 --> 00:41:43,340 Her mind is closed. 1256 00:41:43,340 --> 00:41:45,340 She is a perfect example of 1257 00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:47,340 that kind of single-mindedness 1258 00:41:47,340 --> 00:41:49,340 that people get trapped into. 1259 00:41:55,340 --> 00:41:57,340 I know there's a big narrative out there about 1260 00:41:57,340 --> 00:41:59,340 how the women are 1261 00:41:59,340 --> 00:42:01,340 brainwashed. 1262 00:42:01,340 --> 00:42:03,340 Wow. 1263 00:42:03,340 --> 00:42:05,340 The children are oppressed. 1264 00:42:05,340 --> 00:42:07,340 They want to get out of there. They need to 1265 00:42:07,340 --> 00:42:09,340 see the real world. 1266 00:42:09,340 --> 00:42:11,340 I don't know. 1267 00:42:11,340 --> 00:42:13,340 I think I see quite a bit of the real world. 1268 00:42:13,340 --> 00:42:15,340 And I'm right where I want to be. 1269 00:42:15,340 --> 00:42:17,340 I don't think I want to be out of the 1270 00:42:17,340 --> 00:42:19,340 culture. I don't want to be out of my religion. 1271 00:42:19,340 --> 00:42:21,340 I don't need a big 1272 00:42:21,340 --> 00:42:23,340 gaping hole in my soul. 1273 00:42:25,340 --> 00:42:27,340 I want to stay where I feel 1274 00:42:27,340 --> 00:42:29,340 good and comfortable, 1275 00:42:29,340 --> 00:42:31,340 happy and fulfilled. 1276 00:42:31,340 --> 00:42:33,340 And that's...my religion does that 1277 00:42:33,340 --> 00:42:35,340 for me. 1278 00:42:37,340 --> 00:42:39,340 you