1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,760 But if you own a semi-automatic rifle, they're never going to come and take it. 2 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:03,760 That's a lie. 3 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,280 I mean, I know that's a lie because they've done it to me already. 4 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:07,560 And they've done it to him. 5 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,759 I've watched them do it to fellow brother law enforcement officers. 6 00:00:11,759 --> 00:00:31,640 The Gun Control Act of 1968 declared the BATF should fight against crime and violence. 7 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,799 But in their fight, the BATF should not place undue burdens on law-abiding citizens. 8 00:00:36,799 --> 00:00:39,320 Congress was very specific. 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,560 The ownership of guns should not be discouraged in any way. 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:48,960 So the BATF's original goal was, first, fight crime and violence, and second, collect... 11 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,719 from legal alcohol and tobacco. 12 00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:54,359 From the beginning, the BATF kept law and order. 13 00:00:54,359 --> 00:00:59,960 But in the last 20 years, the BATF lost sight of their goal. 14 00:00:59,960 --> 00:01:04,159 There's a new victim in America, a victim suffering unrightable wrong. 15 00:01:04,159 --> 00:01:08,760 The victim is the law-abiding American citizen, and dozens of them have had their... 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,480 lives destroyed by forces they say are out of control. 17 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,520 The victims warn the problem is not going away, and surprisingly, it's our own... 18 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,439 perpetrating the crime. 19 00:01:20,439 --> 00:01:25,240 So when did the BATF lose sight of their goal, and why did they start targeting... 20 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:26,719 American citizens? 21 00:01:26,719 --> 00:01:31,120 Because there are a lot of people today that are charging the BATF with incompetence. 22 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,560 They are also charging them with cowardice for not seeking out the professional... 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,600 taking the easy way out, and making the easiest arrests. 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:43,640 And it's those innocent people that might not be able to fight back. 25 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:48,920 But the BATF's easy target quota system of crime fighting could be backfiring. 26 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:53,140 Dozens of cases are being thrown out of court, or being dismissed for lack of... 27 00:01:53,140 --> 00:01:54,939 faulty evidence. 28 00:01:54,939 --> 00:01:59,980 Other alleged cases are merely forgotten as if they never existed, but not before ruining 29 00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:02,000 the lives of those under the gun. 30 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,840 I mean, we're not criminals. 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:04,840 We didn't do anything wrong. 32 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:06,320 We didn't steal the guns. 33 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,400 We went and got permits through the police department, through Camden. 34 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,400 Bob Kirkbride and his partner Jim Phillips are veteran New Jersey cops. 35 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:19,980 Together, they have survived a combined total of more than 38 years in life-threatening 36 00:02:19,980 --> 00:02:21,879 tactical work. 37 00:02:21,879 --> 00:02:26,360 Both are instructors qualified on arsenal weapons, including machine guns. 38 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,680 Phillips is an expert in clandestine weaponry. 39 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,080 On their beat in one of Camden, New Jersey's more dangerous ghettos, they have been the 40 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,680 target of desperadoes of all kinds. 41 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,160 But recently, they became targets of yet another kind. 42 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,060 It was a desperate federal investigation. 43 00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:49,880 The agency responsible, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. 44 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,320 After checking with their own police department for the appropriate permits, th... 45 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:58,360 partners bought two semi-automatic Avenger firearms as collector's items. 46 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,560 That is, until the BATF decided to collect the guns instead. 47 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:08,960 He said he was Agent Markovich from the BATNF agency. 48 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,719 And he wanted to speak to me about the weapon I had purchased. 49 00:03:11,719 --> 00:03:14,520 He said, well, we need to evaluate it. 50 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,599 And after we declare it's a machine gun, don't worry, you're not going to get... 51 00:03:18,599 --> 00:03:19,680 I said, wait a minute. 52 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:20,680 It's not a machine gun. 53 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:21,680 What do you mean? 54 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,759 How are you going to declare it is a machine gun when it doesn't fire automatically? 55 00:03:25,759 --> 00:03:26,759 Then he got mad. 56 00:03:26,759 --> 00:03:27,759 He said, well, I want to... 57 00:03:27,759 --> 00:03:28,759 I said, let's stop right here. 58 00:03:28,759 --> 00:03:29,759 He said, let's stop. 59 00:03:29,959 --> 00:03:36,079 And he reaches in his pocket and pulls out the Miranda warnings and he proceeds to... 60 00:03:36,079 --> 00:03:39,719 He says, now, now, when I ask you about these guns, I said, no, you're not asking me... 61 00:03:39,719 --> 00:03:40,719 I'm not saying nothing. 62 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:41,719 I want an attorney. 63 00:03:41,719 --> 00:03:44,439 He said, well, you don't have to take that kind of an attitude. 64 00:03:44,439 --> 00:03:48,000 He said, the only reason I gave you your Miranda warnings was because my bosses tol... 65 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,000 what we're supposed to do. 66 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,959 I said, hey, wait a minute. 67 00:03:50,959 --> 00:03:51,959 We're both cops. 68 00:03:51,959 --> 00:03:53,000 We're not rookies. 69 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:56,479 When we give somebody the Miranda rights, pal, you're in hot water. 70 00:03:56,479 --> 00:03:57,479 You're in trouble. 71 00:03:58,199 --> 00:04:01,280 I said, that's no joke to me. 72 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,399 The reason we had bought them was that we weren't going to fire them. 73 00:04:04,399 --> 00:04:06,919 They were consecutive serial numbers, low serial numbers. 74 00:04:06,919 --> 00:04:12,079 And anybody in their right mind doesn't buy a .45 caliber weapon to go out and blow around. 75 00:04:12,079 --> 00:04:13,079 It's just too expensive. 76 00:04:13,079 --> 00:04:16,439 So we thought it was a good idea to hold on to them. 77 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:21,360 The federal agent left with the two Avengers and began a massive investigation of the two 78 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:22,360 officers. 79 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,439 The ATF probed into their personal lives, their finances, their lifestyles, trying 80 00:04:27,439 --> 00:04:32,759 to dig up any dirt on the partners he could, while all the time continuing to work with 81 00:04:32,759 --> 00:04:37,160 them side by side on other undercover Camden, New Jersey cases. 82 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,160 I mean, I got pretty hot under the collar at his attitude at one point. 83 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,280 And I said, well, I'm going to talk to an attorney. 84 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:44,960 He said, well, wait a minute. 85 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:45,960 I want to know who your attorneys are. 86 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,759 I said, I'm not telling you who my attorney is. 87 00:04:48,759 --> 00:04:51,719 He said, you're going to tell me who the attorney is because if not, you could be 88 00:04:51,719 --> 00:04:56,000 construed as hindering a federal prosecution and be charged for it because we want to 89 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,680 make sure you're not going to see attorneys that Spadia from Jersey Arms Works or Longo 90 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:02,240 from the weapons emporium or use them. 91 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:03,240 So you have to get our permission. 92 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,959 I said, what do you mean I have to get your permission to use an attorney of my choosing? 93 00:05:06,959 --> 00:05:08,959 He said, make up a list and you'll okay it. 94 00:05:08,959 --> 00:05:09,959 Yeah, make up a list. 95 00:05:09,959 --> 00:05:12,199 He said, make up a list and my bosses will okay it. 96 00:05:12,199 --> 00:05:13,680 I said, where's this at? 97 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:15,879 The Gulag Archipelago or something? 98 00:05:15,879 --> 00:05:17,560 This is America, not Russia. 99 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,360 This guy thought he was in the Gestapo from Washington, D.C. or something. 100 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:22,360 That really upset me. 101 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,280 We had heard that the BATNF was bad guys, untrained bunch of political hacks. 102 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:29,000 So we figured that the bad guys are saying that. 103 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,600 It's like you lock up a guy and he comes in and says you beat him up. 104 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:33,600 It's a way out. 105 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:34,600 They look for a way out. 106 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,480 Now we figured the BATNF was doing their job and these people were just sour grapes. 107 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:44,560 But now that you say it, now that it happens to you, you get be a little more sensitive 108 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,279 and you can see that these guys, the way they work. 109 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:48,559 They don't work right. 110 00:05:48,559 --> 00:05:50,000 They don't work properly. 111 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,399 It turned out to be an expensive witch hunt for the government and a painful experience 112 00:05:54,399 --> 00:05:57,000 for two good cops and their families. 113 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,039 Not one indictment or charge was ever brought by the BATNF. 114 00:06:01,039 --> 00:06:05,639 And after all the trauma they imposed, the BATNF dropped the investigation like a hot 115 00:06:05,639 --> 00:06:07,479 shell casing. 116 00:06:07,479 --> 00:06:13,919 My visions of ATF is, you know, you're going after guys with hand grenades and terrorists 117 00:06:13,919 --> 00:06:15,919 and machine guns. 118 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:17,759 Bad guys. 119 00:06:17,759 --> 00:06:19,360 Bad guys. 120 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:20,360 That's my interpretation. 121 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:21,360 Now I know better. 122 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,759 They hit some gun shows, but I really know better now. 123 00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:29,160 I know now if you tell me, well you shouldn't be upset if you own a semi-automatic rifle, 124 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:30,560 they're never going to come and take it. 125 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:31,560 That's a lie. 126 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,600 If we wanted one, we'd just confiscate one. 127 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:34,600 Just take one. 128 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,139 I mean, what's a drug dealer going to go in there and tell the chief of police they took 129 00:06:37,139 --> 00:06:41,439 my machine gun, now I want him locked up, he's going to be happy we just took that. 130 00:06:41,439 --> 00:06:46,639 So why would I go out and purchase something, pay money for it, and it be illegal? 131 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:48,399 It just doesn't make any sense. 132 00:06:48,399 --> 00:06:55,240 But even at that, the part that upset me is these guys snuck in there as an agency, let's 133 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,560 be brothers, let's talk, you help us, we might be able to help you. 134 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:05,040 And the first opportunity got they shafted us. 135 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,800 When did the BATF decide to target non-criminals? 136 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:14,360 By the BATF's own admission, their primary goal is to find the bad guys, not the average 137 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:15,360 citizen. 138 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:21,500 The intent is to keep guns out of the hands of felons, drug dealers, and common... 139 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:30,160 First and foremost is a felon possessing a firearm. 140 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,740 And we also have a recently enacted law called the Armed Career Criminal Act, whic... 141 00:07:35,740 --> 00:07:43,379 for a 15 year mandatory prison term for a person who has three felony convictions for 142 00:07:43,379 --> 00:07:50,660 violent felonies or serious drug offenses and is found in possession of a firearm. 143 00:07:50,660 --> 00:07:56,379 Each year thousands of private citizens attend gun shows, either to buy or sell... 144 00:07:56,379 --> 00:08:01,560 These are private citizens that don't need a license to trade, buy, and sell. 145 00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:06,000 That's the beauty of a gun show, a place where collectors who are building a... 146 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,439 can work at their hobby. 147 00:08:08,439 --> 00:08:14,079 Gun shows were originally designed just for the hobbyist, but in 1984 the BATF relaxed 148 00:08:14,079 --> 00:08:19,860 the rules for gun shows and allowed dealers with FFL licenses to also attend. 149 00:08:19,860 --> 00:08:23,800 As long as the dealers keep the appropriate paperwork and abide by all the rules of their 150 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:28,759 license, they too can buy, sell, and trade at gun shows. 151 00:08:28,759 --> 00:08:30,199 This is Jim Bossie. 152 00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:33,519 Bossie is a prosperous Northern California businessman. 153 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:37,720 He made most of his money in real estate and bought a failing gun dealership from a friend 154 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,720 a few years ago. 155 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,480 Bossie is a licensed dealer and sells most of his guns to police, including machine 156 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:46,039 guns. 157 00:08:46,039 --> 00:08:50,519 Looking for an easy target, Bossie alleges the BATF sneaked onto his property without 158 00:08:50,519 --> 00:08:55,559 a warrant, diagrammed his house, his gun shop, and gun locker, and then tried to ge... 159 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:57,120 in their sights. 160 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,560 They came up here and seized 300 weapons, and out of all those weapons, the one that 161 00:09:01,560 --> 00:09:04,759 they were really concerned about was the shotgun that was too short. 162 00:09:04,759 --> 00:09:06,879 It wasn't being used in a crime. 163 00:09:06,879 --> 00:09:09,179 It wasn't loaded with a live round. 164 00:09:09,179 --> 00:09:12,840 It wasn't in the back of some guy's car lurking around a liquor store. 165 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,399 It had been here for years. 166 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:17,560 I'm 40 years old and never had a problem before. 167 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:25,240 I'm a responsible businessman and entrepreneur in the community, lived here ... 168 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,080 There's no intent to commit a crime. 169 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,120 I don't need to commit a crime. 170 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,779 I'm well off financially. 171 00:09:31,779 --> 00:09:38,200 I don't need to go down to a robbery liquor store to feed my wife or anything else. 172 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,000 What they really should have done is they should have given me an administrative slap 173 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,919 on the hands, what they normally do, and seized the weapon. 174 00:09:47,919 --> 00:09:48,919 I did a boo-boo. 175 00:09:48,919 --> 00:09:50,919 I didn't pay the tax. 176 00:09:50,919 --> 00:09:54,480 One of the real serious problems with the gun business and trying to deal with guns, 177 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:59,320 or even owning a gun as a private citizen, is there are so many restrictions and so 178 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:06,200 many laws and so many gray areas that nobody really knows what's going on anymore. 179 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:12,320 In calling ATF to ask Mike Bedisco or any of these people what is legal and what is 180 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,800 not, what can I and can I not do, they don't know. 181 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,960 They're in the business to know what they're supposed to be doing. 182 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:23,960 When you call them, they cannot give you an answer over the phone. 183 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:25,840 They have to go check with somebody else. 184 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:32,379 Now, how can I run a business if I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing? 185 00:10:32,379 --> 00:10:37,360 They expect me to know all the laws, all the regulations, everything, right to the deal, 186 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,400 and they're changing laws and regulations, I mean, daily, and we don't know about it 187 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,160 for months after the law is changed. 188 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,200 One of the agents who testified against Bossy was heard to say, anyone who had as much... 189 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,840 as Bossy must be making a fortune in illegal weapons, and with that, they proceeded with 190 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:58,320 their case. 191 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:05,320 They spent literally thousands and thousands, I've spent over $100,000 on this deal myself, 192 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,800 personally out of my pocket. 193 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,080 Not to mention the loss of time that I've spent, I've been messing around with this 194 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,759 for two and a half years, and when you're under this type of investigation, you can't 195 00:11:14,759 --> 00:11:18,920 function, you have trouble eating, going to the bathroom, just doing normal things... 196 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:21,439 you are so stressed out. 197 00:11:21,439 --> 00:11:27,479 The money that the government wasted, I mean, literally wasted, trying to make me a... 198 00:11:27,479 --> 00:11:33,039 and I say trying to make me a criminal because I am not a criminal, is just... 199 00:11:33,039 --> 00:11:36,319 You know, they talk about tax budgets and problems with money. 200 00:11:36,319 --> 00:11:39,679 I know what the problem is with money, it's bad management. 201 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:44,599 Why is this strong government agency taking such a tyrannical line against defenseless, 202 00:11:44,599 --> 00:11:46,360 innocent citizens? 203 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,840 The BATF is accused of taking their padded quota sheets with long lists of arrests to 204 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:56,960 Congress to justify spending $166 million taxpayer dollars every year to pay for the 205 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,360 upkeep of their bureaucracy. 206 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:04,800 The BATF is accused of promoting agents who make numerous arrests, thereby encouraging 207 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:09,879 quantity over quality and throwing control and supervision out the window. 208 00:12:09,879 --> 00:12:13,279 Is the BATF a police agency run amok? 209 00:12:13,279 --> 00:12:18,720 Is it full of agents who are chasing innocent paperwork mistakes rather than vicious... 210 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,600 Robert Sanders is a former BATF official. 211 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:26,959 He has held every position of authority in the BATF from agent to chief of enforcement. 212 00:12:26,959 --> 00:12:32,519 Now an attorney in Washington, D.C., Sanders specializes in defending gun owners from the 213 00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:33,519 BATF. 214 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:40,279 If an agent were to go to a gun show, he could see what might look like suspicious... 215 00:12:40,279 --> 00:12:43,639 all around them, but which may not be. 216 00:12:43,639 --> 00:12:54,079 So therefore the protections were promulgated within ATF and therein are the checks and 217 00:12:54,079 --> 00:12:58,240 balances from supervision and from management. 218 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:04,600 But turning it around and going after a law enforcement officer or any other citizen for 219 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:12,480 a technical non-welfare violation is just not a matter of federal interest. 220 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:20,879 And it's something that ATF's own policies and procedures dictate against. 221 00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:26,960 Go after criminal activity and criminal activity is not hard to discern. 222 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,440 Criminal activity, we know it when we see it. 223 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,620 Now clearly there was tampering in some of the BATF cases and the judge in the Bossie 224 00:13:34,620 --> 00:13:38,440 case rendered that in his opinion so he more or less confirmed it. 225 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:44,680 Now as a former official of BATF, were you ever aware of tampering or was it ever... 226 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:47,480 It's hard to even comment on something like that. 227 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:56,440 It's so inherently evil and wrong, just common sense and gut feeling. 228 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,160 Evidence is something you don't tamper with. 229 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:04,360 The case against the BATF continues to grow as their quotifile grows. 230 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:12,759 Reckless disregard for the law, BATF extortion, BATF perjury, BATF illegal and... 231 00:14:12,759 --> 00:14:15,819 and BATF entrapment. 232 00:14:15,819 --> 00:14:18,639 One of those recently entrapped, Richard Johnson. 233 00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:24,919 Johnson, the son of a police chief, began collecting guns as a 16 year old boy. 234 00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:29,279 After his tour of duty in Vietnam, Johnson obtained a dealer's license and started... 235 00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:33,399 semi-automatic firearms and parts for his collection. 236 00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:38,219 Johnson enjoyed working with guns and occasionally sold or gave extra parts away... 237 00:14:38,219 --> 00:14:41,079 until he says he was set up. 238 00:14:41,079 --> 00:14:46,039 But the BATF charges against him backfired in court, especially after a secret recording 239 00:14:46,039 --> 00:14:49,079 made by the undercover agent was played. 240 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:55,480 There was over 56 instances on the tapes where I had actually said, I am not going 241 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:56,759 to break the law for you. 242 00:14:56,759 --> 00:14:59,320 I will not do anything illegal. 243 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:05,160 I told him to get federal paperwork, to execute that paperwork, to wait for approval. 244 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:11,600 The entire case was permeated with machine guns and conversion kits. 245 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,400 Why was Richard Johnson selling these kits? 246 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:18,320 Well, as I'd already mentioned, I called up their offices in Tampa and the technology 247 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,800 branch in D.C. and was told by their most eminent authorities that these parts were 248 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,540 legal to possess, to trade and to sell. 249 00:15:25,540 --> 00:15:30,000 As a matter of fact, none of these parts were covered by the Gun Control Act of 1968. 250 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:37,040 Nevertheless, the trial was focusing about 80% on those parts and that drop in sear 251 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,840 that I'd sold and about 20% on the actual rifles that I'd sold. 252 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,740 It seems that the rifles were the reason to bring me into the courtroom and the parts 253 00:15:44,740 --> 00:15:47,920 were the thing that they were really trying to stress when they were there. 254 00:15:47,919 --> 00:15:53,079 The jury acquitted Johnson and once again, the BATF was red-faced. 255 00:15:53,079 --> 00:15:59,679 When the case was over, immediately several of the marshals came up and shook my hand 256 00:15:59,679 --> 00:16:03,799 and the one marshal, I won't even mention his name, but the one marshal, one of the 257 00:16:03,799 --> 00:16:07,279 older marshals that had been there, he's retired now, I'll tell you how long he's 258 00:16:07,279 --> 00:16:11,819 been there, came over and shook my hand and said, you know, this case has been about 259 00:16:11,819 --> 00:16:17,819 nothing more than the right to keep him bare-arm because I'm glad you won, son. 260 00:16:17,820 --> 00:16:22,720 Some say it sure would be nice if the BATF leaned on outlaws the way they lean on good 261 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:23,780 guys. 262 00:16:23,780 --> 00:16:27,100 They came down hard on John Lovin from out of nowhere. 263 00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:30,620 John is an enthusiast who knows guns, ammo and hunting. 264 00:16:30,620 --> 00:16:36,540 He and his family operated a successful roadside fruit stand until friends and... 265 00:16:36,540 --> 00:16:40,379 they expand their gun hobby into a full-time business. 266 00:16:40,379 --> 00:16:44,100 So he obtained his license and was soon known as the guy who stayed open on New Year's 267 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:48,259 Day and might even open up for a hunter at midnight. 268 00:16:48,259 --> 00:16:52,740 If the local police department needed some special ammo, John was there to help. 269 00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:57,899 He and his family became one of the largest gun dealers in Pennsylvania until the BATF 270 00:16:57,899 --> 00:17:00,460 pulled his license for no apparent reason. 271 00:17:00,460 --> 00:17:01,899 John was out of business overnight. 272 00:17:01,899 --> 00:17:05,460 With the BATF, it seemed to be quite a bit of confusion. 273 00:17:05,460 --> 00:17:13,140 Not only can they not tell you what the policy is or even what the law is exactly,... 274 00:17:13,140 --> 00:17:15,820 to get ahold of Washington, it's worse yet. 275 00:17:15,820 --> 00:17:16,820 No answer whatsoever. 276 00:17:16,820 --> 00:17:21,580 The BATF spent three months looking for something to hang Lovin on. 277 00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:24,580 All they could find was a mistake in recording a serial number. 278 00:17:24,580 --> 00:17:27,360 A two should have been a three. 279 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:30,500 Was he trying to get a handgun into the hands of a criminal? 280 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:34,100 No, the gun was sold to a police officer. 281 00:17:34,100 --> 00:17:37,460 Another BATF blunder not based on conclusive evidence. 282 00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:46,460 Well from what I can see of the situation, the problems we've had with the BATF, that 283 00:17:46,460 --> 00:17:55,539 the professionalism just isn't there as far as being able to tell what the policy is 284 00:17:55,539 --> 00:18:00,380 or to give us information. 285 00:18:00,380 --> 00:18:04,380 I haven't had any problems with any of the individuals personally, but it seems the... 286 00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:11,900 together from the membership puts out a very poor public image and doesn't really seem 287 00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:15,220 to get the job done. 288 00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:18,860 We've already learned real criminals are not the only ones targeted. 289 00:18:18,860 --> 00:18:23,640 Law enforcement officers come under just as much scrutiny as the average citizen. 290 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,020 Take Lieutenant Jim Corcoran of the Pennsylvania State Police. 291 00:18:27,020 --> 00:18:31,420 A model cop, family man, and citizen in every way. 292 00:18:31,539 --> 00:18:34,460 Corcoran reported Jim for selling an automatic weapon. 293 00:18:34,460 --> 00:18:37,820 The charges were always, it seemed to me, questionable. 294 00:18:37,820 --> 00:18:42,900 I mean you always had to stretch a point, even under their reading of the law, to make 295 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:43,900 a machine gun. 296 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:48,539 You had to take it apart, you had to put a part in backwards, etc. 297 00:18:48,539 --> 00:18:49,860 You always had to stretch it. 298 00:18:49,860 --> 00:18:56,580 What surprised me is that they went so far against a guy like Corcoran who was a state 299 00:18:56,579 --> 00:19:02,980 Trooper had an absolutely exemplary record for 17 years in the state police. 300 00:19:02,980 --> 00:19:06,419 So when did the judge intervene and what was the judge's main reason for throwing the 301 00:19:06,419 --> 00:19:08,139 case out of court? 302 00:19:08,139 --> 00:19:19,139 81-4 says that, almost verbatim, an AR-15 manufactured with M16 internal parts already 303 00:19:19,139 --> 00:19:26,299 installed, is converted into a machine gun by the addition of an automatic sear. 304 00:19:26,299 --> 00:19:33,019 And that implies that an AR-15 with M16 internal parts already added, which doesn'... 305 00:19:33,019 --> 00:19:35,940 an automatic sear, is not a machine gun. 306 00:19:35,940 --> 00:19:37,139 Corcoran was lucky. 307 00:19:37,139 --> 00:19:40,819 He was exonerated, reinstated, and promoted. 308 00:19:40,819 --> 00:19:45,139 Yet he's out more than $40,000 defending his innocence. 309 00:19:45,139 --> 00:19:50,019 So I'm telling you folks, if you got a shotgun and you go out and you shoot a bun... 310 00:19:50,019 --> 00:19:55,019 when you shoot a bunny, your semi-automatic fires two times, I don't know what you do, 311 00:19:55,180 --> 00:20:01,779 you now possess a machine gun if the ATF is right, and there's no reason they couldn't 312 00:20:01,779 --> 00:20:05,299 thereafter prosecute you like they prosecuted Jim Corcoran. 313 00:20:05,299 --> 00:20:07,299 Crazy though it seems to me. 314 00:20:13,059 --> 00:20:17,859 Don Breyer is another firearms hobbyist and collector who suddenly found himself in the 315 00:20:17,859 --> 00:20:19,940 BATF quota file. 316 00:20:19,940 --> 00:20:21,139 The charge? 317 00:20:21,139 --> 00:20:24,500 Selling firearms without a license at a gun show. 318 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:29,180 An undercover agent purchased two guns from Breyer at two different shows and said Breyer 319 00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:31,180 had sold two other guns elsewhere. 320 00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:34,819 Again, it's the little guy against the government. 321 00:20:34,819 --> 00:20:36,339 The game has really changed. 322 00:20:36,339 --> 00:20:40,059 It's no longer the crooks versus the honest people. 323 00:20:40,059 --> 00:20:43,619 It's the game of what the government agency is allowed to do. 324 00:20:43,619 --> 00:20:47,819 If they're allowed to lie to the grand jury and obtain a divan's, then they can lie at 325 00:20:47,819 --> 00:20:51,460 trial, and to them it's just a matter of a conviction game. 326 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:57,220 They don't consider the effect to the individual, to society in general, to the... 327 00:20:57,220 --> 00:21:01,500 the children, to the friends, to all the other people that suffer. 328 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:07,700 They just basically look at this whole situation as a conviction mill, and they'r... 329 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,819 honest individuals and turning them into criminals. 330 00:21:10,819 --> 00:21:13,500 The power of the government is oppressive. 331 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:15,900 No one can afford to fight the government. 332 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:17,500 I know that now. 333 00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:21,579 It just ruins you financially, it ruins you emotionally, it ruins your family life, it 334 00:21:21,579 --> 00:21:25,220 ruins every aspect of your life, business or whatever. 335 00:21:25,220 --> 00:21:27,779 You cannot fight the government. 336 00:21:27,779 --> 00:21:30,220 And the government agents know this. 337 00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:34,619 After more than $30,000 in attorney's fees, the federal judge handling the case in Los 338 00:21:34,619 --> 00:21:40,460 Angeles blocked expert testimony from GOA and sentenced Breyer to prison, probation 339 00:21:40,460 --> 00:21:42,099 and a fine. 340 00:21:42,099 --> 00:21:45,660 Breyer is appealing while the GOA continues to help. 341 00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:48,060 Financially, it just about wiped me out. 342 00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:52,540 The first attorneys didn't really know what they were doing. 343 00:21:52,540 --> 00:21:56,220 They cost almost $15,000. 344 00:21:56,220 --> 00:22:01,620 The second attorney handling it, because the first attorney was failing so miserably, 345 00:22:01,620 --> 00:22:05,700 quoted me he would take it on for four or five thousand, in fact put it in writing 346 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:11,340 for five or six thousand, it ended up costing another 15, $20,000. 347 00:22:11,339 --> 00:22:17,179 Finally, there are those who, whether guilty or not, can't take the pressure of an... 348 00:22:17,179 --> 00:22:19,699 Big Brother is just too intimidating. 349 00:22:19,699 --> 00:22:23,139 They feel the little guy just can't win against the government. 350 00:22:23,139 --> 00:22:26,299 They don't have enough time and not enough resources. 351 00:22:26,299 --> 00:22:28,179 Take the case of Eddie Walters. 352 00:22:28,179 --> 00:22:31,099 Eddie was set up by an undercover agent. 353 00:22:31,099 --> 00:22:36,059 There were six guys in my kitchen and I walk in and the first thing he says, do you have 354 00:22:36,059 --> 00:22:37,059 a gun? 355 00:22:37,059 --> 00:22:40,379 And I said no and I just stood there and I was looking around and then one of the guys 356 00:22:40,780 --> 00:22:45,220 started explaining that he was from the government and then Eddie walked in. 357 00:22:45,220 --> 00:22:50,100 But one time when I was in the kitchen and Eddie was sitting across from one of the... 358 00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:52,740 and they were telling him, you know, we've got you man. 359 00:22:52,740 --> 00:22:53,740 There's no way out of this. 360 00:22:53,740 --> 00:22:56,460 We've got you and there's nothing you can do about it. 361 00:22:56,460 --> 00:22:58,340 You might as well hang it up, bud. 362 00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:02,140 And it was just like, you know, and I was sitting on the kitchen counter and I just 363 00:23:02,140 --> 00:23:05,860 started crying and he looked over at me and he said, see what you've done to her, you've 364 00:23:05,860 --> 00:23:07,860 her in her life. 365 00:23:08,339 --> 00:23:11,299 And Eddie just looked at me and that's all it took. 366 00:23:11,299 --> 00:23:16,819 As much as he loved me, that's all it took for him to have someone tell him that he 367 00:23:16,819 --> 00:23:18,819 ruined my life. 368 00:23:18,819 --> 00:23:20,779 It's more than he can handle. 369 00:23:20,779 --> 00:23:25,299 He said, I haven't done anything bad enough to go to jail over. 370 00:23:25,299 --> 00:23:26,619 He said, there's no way. 371 00:23:26,619 --> 00:23:28,019 He said, you see what that paper said? 372 00:23:28,019 --> 00:23:30,579 It said United States of America versus Eddie Walter. 373 00:23:30,579 --> 00:23:33,419 He said, there's no way that I can fight the government. 374 00:23:33,419 --> 00:23:37,619 He said, I could either run or I can kill myself. 375 00:23:38,379 --> 00:23:41,379 You know, I guess I was thinking if he did run, I didn't want to tell the police he 376 00:23:41,379 --> 00:23:43,379 was missing so they wouldn't find him. 377 00:23:43,379 --> 00:23:49,379 And then it was around 930 or quarter till 10, finally Friday night that the police 378 00:23:49,379 --> 00:23:53,379 came to the door and told me that Eddie was dead, that they had found him. 379 00:23:53,379 --> 00:23:59,379 Eddie's perception of letting his family down and the heavy hand of the BATF drove him 380 00:23:59,379 --> 00:24:02,379 to take his own life. 381 00:24:02,379 --> 00:24:04,379 Are these isolated cases? 382 00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:06,140 Certainly not. 383 00:24:06,140 --> 00:24:10,140 As you have seen, people from all across the nation were targeted for prosecution 384 00:24:10,140 --> 00:24:13,140 and fell victim to the abuses of the BATF. 385 00:24:13,140 --> 00:24:16,140 But there is an answer and you can fight back. 386 00:24:16,140 --> 00:24:21,140 If we all join together, we can make sure that the BATF operates in its proper role. 387 00:24:21,140 --> 00:24:24,140 And that is by going after the criminal. 388 00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:29,140 BATF is not the only agency that's trying to take away our individual rights. 389 00:24:29,140 --> 00:24:31,140 They're just part of the overall problem. 390 00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:34,900 You're probably well aware of the orchestrated plan by anti-gunners whose ne... 391 00:24:34,900 --> 00:24:38,900 on semi-automatic firearms using buzzwords like assault weapons. 392 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:42,900 The anti-gun forces are persistent, well-financed, and entrenched. 393 00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:43,900 We must fight back. 394 00:24:43,900 --> 00:24:45,900 It's our American responsibility. 395 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:46,900 We are American. 396 00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:48,900 We believe in our individual rights. 397 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:50,900 We intend to keep those rights intact. 398 00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:55,900 Unfortunately, we've stood by and watched bureaucracy get too big and out of control. 399 00:24:55,900 --> 00:24:59,900 Now some of the attacks are coming out of that same bureaucracy. 400 00:25:00,660 --> 00:25:04,660 All over the United States, our Second Amendment rights are restricted and fallin... 401 00:25:04,660 --> 00:25:06,660 Semi-automatics could be next. 402 00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:10,660 Then perhaps the basic right to own any gun may be gone. 403 00:25:11,660 --> 00:25:13,660 We all are in a crisis. 404 00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:15,660 That our liberties are in jeopardy. 405 00:25:15,660 --> 00:25:19,660 If we don't believe that, if we don't understand that, then there's no way we ca... 406 00:25:19,660 --> 00:25:24,660 We have to not only get involved in talking to our friends and neighbors, 407 00:25:24,660 --> 00:25:25,660 we have to take some leadership. 408 00:25:25,660 --> 00:25:27,660 We have to get the facts to our friends and neighbors. 409 00:25:28,420 --> 00:25:30,420 We have to get them to our legislators and even to the media. 410 00:25:30,420 --> 00:25:35,420 We have to talk to these people and show them that there is another point of view that t... 411 00:25:35,420 --> 00:25:38,420 And we have to keep talking until they finally listen to us. 412 00:25:38,420 --> 00:25:41,420 It's not going to necessarily be the first time that we contact them. 413 00:25:41,420 --> 00:25:44,420 We're going to have to be very persistent or we will lose. 414 00:25:46,420 --> 00:25:50,420 The bureaucratic oppression perpetrated by the BATF reached deep into society. 415 00:25:50,420 --> 00:25:55,420 It pitted cop against cop in New Jersey when the BATF went after fellow law enforcement... 416 00:25:55,420 --> 00:25:57,420 Bob Kirkbride and Jim Phillips. 417 00:25:58,180 --> 00:26:02,180 They have been exonerated but still have not seen their rifles returned. 418 00:26:02,180 --> 00:26:06,180 The oppression has cost Jim Bossie more than $100,000 in legal fees. 419 00:26:06,180 --> 00:26:10,180 He has lost forever part of his private collection that was not for sale. 420 00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:12,180 The BATF destroyed that part of the collection. 421 00:26:13,180 --> 00:26:17,180 Richard Johnson was acquitted, but his victory was expensive and painful. 422 00:26:17,180 --> 00:26:23,180 Don Breyer is still appealing his conviction for allegedly selling five guns at a gun s... 423 00:26:23,180 --> 00:26:25,180 And don't forget about Eddie Walters. 424 00:26:25,940 --> 00:26:28,940 A man is presumed innocent until proven guilty. 425 00:26:28,940 --> 00:26:35,940 But Eddie couldn't handle the insinuation that he was guilty and killed himself beca... 426 00:26:36,940 --> 00:26:38,940 What can you do to stop the oppression? 427 00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:45,940 Help stop the anti-gun agenda of taking our guns one by one until they're all gone by... 428 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:49,940 Once on our mailing list, we can provide you protection on all fronts. 429 00:26:49,940 --> 00:26:52,940 If you have questions, write. We're here to help. 430 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:57,700 Show this story to others. Spread the word so more people can see what's happening. 431 00:26:57,700 --> 00:27:03,700 Be vigilant. If you own firearms or want to protect the rights of those who do, we mus... 432 00:27:03,700 --> 00:27:09,700 This is our country. We must protect the liberties guaranteed to all of us in our... 433 00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:13,700 To do anything less is to renounce our heritage. 434 00:27:13,700 --> 00:27:16,700 This is the United States. It's our country. 435 00:27:16,700 --> 00:27:19,700 We American citizens run it. 436 00:27:20,460 --> 00:27:25,460 We control the government or else it gets out of hand and it becomes a bureaucracy. 437 00:27:25,460 --> 00:27:31,460 We believe that the BATF has become just that, a bureaucracy that's out of control. 438 00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:34,460 Now, they're good people in the BATF. We know that. 439 00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:39,460 But we know that they've also been involved in excesses that's caused a great deal of... 440 00:27:39,460 --> 00:27:48,460 One of the reasons that we and Gun Owners were formed was to set up another... 441 00:27:49,220 --> 00:27:52,220 Now, why don't you become a member of our organization? 442 00:27:52,220 --> 00:27:56,220 You'll find that we're fighting for you and we fought for other citizens and we're ver... 443 00:27:56,220 --> 00:27:59,220 And we're going to continue to fight for these things for years to come. 444 00:28:01,220 --> 00:28:04,220 To ensure your liberty, mail your check to 445 00:28:04,220 --> 00:28:13,220 Gun Owners of America, Suite 102, 8001 Forbes Place, Springfield, Virginia, 22151. 446 00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:22,220 Thank you.