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The title of my talk this evening is,
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Forbidden Archaeology, Evidence for Extreme Human Antiquity, and the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis.
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First I'd like to introduce myself as a researcher in history of science for the
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Bhaktivedanta Institute, that's the science studies branch of the International Society
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Consciousness. My work is inspired by the ancient Sanskrit writings of India.
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Now I'm glad that I looked at the LA MUFON website before I came here this evening,
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because then I learned what I was supposed to talk about. So the topics I'm going to go over
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this evening are the archaeological evidence for extreme human antiquity and how it relates
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to different ideas connected with UFOs. Then I'm also going to give you a little bit of a preview
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of my next book, Human Devolution, which will be coming out this fall. And then I learned on the
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website that I was also supposed to speak about latest developments on reports of a sunken city
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off the coast of India. And I'll also speak about some other research that I'm doing there.
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So first of all, what does archaeology have to do with UFOs and aliens? There is a connection.
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Many in the field have offered theories about alien interventions and the origin of the human
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race. So I think if we're going to talk about such things, we should know something about what
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archaeology tells us about a human presence on this planet. So that if we're going to speak
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about alien interventions and extraterrestrial interventions, we should be able to connect them
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with the actual archaeological facts and not just what we read about in the current textbooks.
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Now as I mentioned, my work is inspired by my studies in the ancient Sanskrit writings
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of India. These writings tell us some very interesting things about the origin of the
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human race. They tell us, first of all, that human civilizations have been present on this
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planet for vast periods of cyclical time. The basic unit of this Vedic cyclical time is called
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the day of Brahma. It lasts for 4,320,000,000 years. It's followed by a night of Brahma,
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which also lasts for the same period of time, 4,320,000,000 years. And during the days of Brahma,
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life, including human life, is manifest in the universe. And during the nights, it's dormant or
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quiescent. Now these ancient Sanskrit writings, they also speak of ape men. This idea of ape men
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isn't something that was invented by a European scientist of the mid-19th century. Thousands of
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years before that, these ancient Sanskrit authors were speaking about such things. But according to
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them, alongside these ape men were existing humans of our type. And the period of coexistence goes
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back quite far in time. Actually, it goes back all the way to the beginning of the day of Brahma.
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And according to the Vedic cosmological calendars, the day of Brahma began about 2 billion years ago.
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So Vedic archaeologists might expect to find evidence for human presence going back that far,
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about 2 billion years.
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Now these ideas that I've just briefly sketched out for you are, of course, somewhat different
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than the ideas about human origins that we get from Charles Darwin and his modern followers.
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Basically, they tell us that life began on this planet somewhere between 2 and 3 billion years ago.
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Then they say the first apes and monkeys came into existence about 40 million years ago.
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Then they say the first ape men came into existence about 6 million years ago. And finally,
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they say that humans of our type came into existence only about 100,000 years ago. And
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generally, they say that all of the physical evidence that we have today, that we have
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about 100,000 years ago. And generally, they say that all of the physical evidence supports
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this picture of human origins. But when I did eight years of research into the entire history
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of archaeology, I found something quite different. I found that over the past 150 years, archaeologists
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have discovered huge amounts of evidence showing that humans of our type have been present on this
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planet for this entire period of time. And the evidence takes the form of human skeletal remains,
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human artifacts, and human footprints. Now, many people will ask if there is so much evidence of
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this type, then why don't we hear about it so much? And Sandra and Jolene referred to this process of
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knowledge filtration, which we see illustrated here. We can call the blue box the knowledge
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filter. And I'm sure you're very familiar with how this operates in your fields, UFOs and aliens.
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It represents the fixed ideas that scientists have about certain subjects, in this case,
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human origins. And reports of evidence that conform to these fixed ideas will pass through
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this social filter very easily, which means these facts will be mentioned in textbooks.
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Scientists will speak about them at conferences. If you go to museums of natural history,
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you'll see the objects on display. But if we have reports of evidence that radically contradict
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these fixed ideas, then they tend to be rejected, which means we don't hear about them. We don't
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read about them in the textbooks. We don't see the objects in the museums. What I'd like to do
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now is go over some representative examples of the kinds of evidence that I'm talking about.
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In 1979, Mary Leakey, one of the most famous archaeologists of the 20th century,
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discovered dozens of footprints at a place called Leitoli in the country of Tanzania in East Africa.
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Mary Leakey said that after careful study, she could see that these footprints were
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absolutely identical to modern human footprints. But the footprints are found in layers of
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solidified volcanic ash about four million years old. Now, a Vedic archaeologist wouldn't be
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surprised to find evidence that humans of our type were walking around in Africa four million
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years ago. But for the normal type of archaeologist of today, it would seem quite surprising.
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Now, Mary Leakey did not believe that humans of our type were present in Africa four million years
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ago. So this is how she explained the presence of those footprints. She said, and most archaeologists
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today would agree with her, that four million years ago there must have existed some type of
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ape man who had feet exactly like ours. And that's how the footprints were made. And that's
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certainly possible. Unfortunately, there's no physical evidence to support that idea.
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Now, scientists have skeletons of the ape men that existed at that time. And their feet are
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quite different than modern human feet. They're very ape-like. Nobody's ever discovered an ape man
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who had feet exactly like ours. Now, this topic came up for me a couple of years ago when I spoke
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at the World Archaeological Congress in Cape Town, South Africa. Also speaking there was this
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scientist, Ron Clark, from England. He had announced the discovery of a fairly complete
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skeleton of Australopithecus from a place called Sterkfontein in South Africa. And among the bones
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were the foot bones of the creature. And from those bones, Clark made this model of the foot,
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which is quite ape-like, as it should be, because the bones, the foot bones of the creature were
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quite ape-like. For one thing, the first toe is very long, and it can move out to the side,
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like a human thumb. Actually, it can move much further out to the side than you see it in this
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position here. The other toes are also quite long, sort of like short human fingers.
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I was, now this creature was about the same age as the footprints found by Mary Leakey.
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So after Ron Clark spoke, I was in the audience, and I put a question to him.
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And my question was, why doesn't this foot match the footprints that were found by Mary Leakey?
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I mean, you see what his problem was. He was advertising he had the oldest human ancestor,
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but elsewhere in Africa there was evidence that humans of our type were walking around at the
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exact same time. So how did he answer my question? Ron Clark said, well, it was my ape man who made
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those footprints found by Mary Leakey, but he was walking with his long first toe pressed up
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tightly against the other ones, like this, and he was also walking with his other long toes
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curled under, like this. That's how the footprints were made. Now, I mean, some of you are laughing
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a little bit, and in Cape Town I was also laughing a little bit, and the reason I was laughing is
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that the 1,000 archaeologists listening to Clark, they weren't laughing. You know, they were just
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nodding their heads saying, oh yes, that sounds perfectly reasonable to me. It's another way in
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which this knowledge filtering process operates. Evidence for extreme human antiquity can be
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staring scientists right in the face, but they will simply make some mental adjustment to
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conveniently explain it away.
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Now, this is an anatomically modern skull. It was part of a fairly complete anatomically
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modern human skeleton. It was found by the Italian geologist Giuseppe Ragazzoni
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in the late 19th century at a place called Castanedolo in northern Italy,
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and he found it in layers of rock roughly four million years old, you know, the same age as the
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footprints found by Mary Leakey, because sometimes people will say, okay, you've got footprints,
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but what about a skeleton of a human being four million years old? Do you have that? And yes,
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we do have that, and this is part of the evidence. Now, what I like to do in cases like this,
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I mean, just as you like to investigate UFO reports, I like to investigate things like this.
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I went with an Italian friend of mine to northern Italy, and we went to the town of Castanedolo,
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and we tried to relocate the site where this discovery was made, and going through the area
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we met at a house near the place where we were searching, this gentleman, elderly gentleman,
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and actually he turned out to know quite a bit about the case. Here I was giving him a
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showing him a copy of the Italian edition of my book, The Hidden History of the Human Race,
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but he had in his possession some interesting documents. For example, he had this old geological
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report about the hill at Castanedolo where this particular discovery was made. There's mention
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here of Pliocene Man, so Pliocene is the geological period that goes back to around four million years
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ago. This report contained a fairly detailed description of the exact place of the discovery,
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and with the help of this gentleman and this detailed description and this old document,
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we were able to relocate the site where this discovery was made. I think that
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provides an opportunity for further research in this same area.
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Now, many times when scientists hear about a human skeleton being found in some very ancient
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layer of rock, they say, look, it's very easy to explain. There's no mystery here whatsoever.
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What happened is very obvious. Only a few thousand years ago, someone died at this level here,
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and then his friends dug a grave and put the skeleton down here. That's why you think you
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found a human skeleton in a layer of rock four million years old. Now, things like that can
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happen. They do happen, but in this particular case, Ragazzoni, the discoverer of the skeleton,
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was a professional geologist. He was very much aware of this problem, and in his original reports,
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he said, if it had been a burial, then all the overlying layers of rock would have been disturbed,
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as we see here. But he said, I checked very carefully when I was taking the skeleton out
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of the ground, and I could see that all the overlying layers of rock were perfectly intact
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and undisturbed. That means the skeleton really is as old as the layer of rock in which it was found,
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in this case, four million years.
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Now, this is Carlos Ribeiro. He was the chief government geologist of Portugal in the latter
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part of the 19th century, and he discovered hundreds of human artifacts in his country
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of Portugal in layers of rock 20 million years old. He displayed these artifacts in the Museum
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of Geology in Lisbon, and I visited that museum a couple of years ago. But you won't see the
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objects on display today. He displayed them here in these cases, but today they're kept locked in
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these cabinets down here, where nobody can see them. Now, I did get permission from the director
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of the museum to study and photograph these objects for a report I gave at the European
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Association of Archaeologists annual meeting, which was held in Lisbon a couple of years ago.
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Now, this is a photograph of one of the artifacts. It's a pointed artifact made of flint, and it has
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use marks on it. It comes from a place called Morgonhera in Portugal. It's interesting what
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happened with this artifact. As I said, it came from layers of rock 20 million years old, and
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when Ribeiro was living, the objects were displayed in the museum with labels indicating an age of
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20 million years. Now, when he died, the next generation of officials in the museum left the
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objects on display, but they changed the labels, and this is the new label that they wrote for that
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particular object. The first line says, instrument of flint. It comes from Morgonhera. It was
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discovered by Ribeiro. This line gives the age. It says, paleolithic superior. That means the upper
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paleolithic. According to archaeologists, the upper paleolithic period in Europe goes back
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about 20,000 years. It's interesting what they did. They looked at the objects. They said,
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20 million years? That's impossible. 20,000 years? That sounds about right. They wrote the new labels
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for the artifacts, but then the next generation of officials in the museum, they put the whole
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collection away. If you went to that museum today, you would not see these objects.
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You would not even be aware that they were even there.
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A similar case from Belgium. This is the Belgian geologist Routote. Early in the 20th century,
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he discovered hundreds of human artifacts at a place called Boncel in Belgium. Using his old
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maps and documents, I rediscovered the place where he found these. This is an old quarry near Boncel.
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Belgian archaeologists told me, you're just wasting your time. You'll never find the place.
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It's probably a parking lot or a supermarket by now. I did rediscover the place. He found these
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artifacts in these bottom layers of this quarry. These layers down here, according to both Routote
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and modern geologists, are about 30 million years old. The objects are still in the collection of
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the Royal Museum of Natural Sciences in Brussels. If you go to that museum, you won't see them. Now,
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if you'd gone there in the year 1920, you would have seen them on display in the main hall of the
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museum with ages of 30 million years attached to them. After Routote died, his colleagues thought,
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we can't have this. This is impossible. Humans didn't exist 30 million years ago. They took the
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collection off the display shelves and they locked them away in the
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storage rooms of the Department of Archaeology. Now, I went there about a year and a half ago
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and I did get permission from the director of the museum to see and photograph these
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artifacts for a report I gave at a major international conference on archaeology that
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was held in Europe. They're still there. If you go there, you won't see them, however.
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Now, a case from our own state of California. It's always fascinated me, the California gold
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mine discoveries. Of course, we all know about the California gold rush and the miners came
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from around the world to get the gold there. To get it, they dug tunnels into the sides of
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mountains. This is Table Mountain in Twalymne County. Deep inside the tunnels, the miners found
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human skeletons and hundreds of human artifacts in the solid rock. For example, they found many
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dozens of these mortars and pestles. What makes these discoveries interesting is they're found
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in layers of solid rock that belonged to the early part of the geological period called the
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Eocene, which means these objects would be about 50 million years old. Now, a Vedic archaeologist
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wouldn't be surprised by this, but the average archaeologist today would find it quite impossible
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because 50 million years ago is before the time of the first apes and monkeys, according to their
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picture of the history of life on this planet, which may be in need of revision.
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Now, these discoveries were reported to the scientific world by Dr. J.D. Whitney, who was
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the chief government geologist of California. He wrote a massive book about them that was published
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by Harvard University in the year 1880, but we don't hear very much about these discoveries today
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because of this process of knowledge filtration. This is the scientist most responsible for the
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knowledge filtering process in this particular case. This is Dr. William B. Holmes of the
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Smithsonian Institution in Washington. What he said is this. He said, if Dr. Whitney had understood
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the theory of human evolution, then he would not have announced those discoveries despite the
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imposing array of facts with which he was confronted. In other words, if the facts did
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not go along with the theory, then the facts had to be put aside, and that's exactly what happened.
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Sandra asked me to say a few words about some of the reactions that came when we started
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trying to get these facts out to the public. As Sandra mentioned, a few years ago I was a
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consultant for an NBC television special called The Mysterious Origins of Man hosted by Charlton
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Heston. The television program was largely based on material from my book Forbidden Archaeology.
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During the filming, we tried to get permission to see the artifacts which are in the collection of
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the Phoebe Hearst Museum of Anthropology at the University of California, Berkeley. We were refused
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permission at that time. Nevertheless, we did go on with the program, but it was interesting to see
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what happened. When scientists learned that this program was going to be shown on NBC, they tried
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to get the General Electric Company, which owns NBC, to stop NBC from showing the program.
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They weren't successful. The program was shown several times. Then, it was interesting what
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happened. The scientists attempted to get the United States government to punish NBC for showing
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the program. This is a letter from one of them to the FCC asking the FCC to investigate and censure
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NBC for having shown this program to the American people. This wasn't just one isolated letter that
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one scientist sent in. This was an organized campaign run from the University of California at
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Berkeley. Scientists all over America and all over the world were invited to send letters of support
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to the FCC in support of this. What they wanted the FCC to do was to
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force NBC to make prime time apologies for having shown the program. Also, they wanted NBC to be
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fined millions of dollars so that they would never do anything like this again. Now, I'm happy to say
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that the FCC didn't do that, but it may be a fact that because of attempts like this,
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the networks may have been a little bit intimidated. We'll see what they'll do in the future
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regarding getting more of this information out to the public.
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It's interesting. Recently, I re-approached the officials at the Museum of Anthropology
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at the University of California at Berkeley. This time, I went to them because I wanted
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to present a paper on these discoveries at the next World Archaeological Congress, which is being
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held in Washington, D.C. in June. Actually, I'm one of the co-organizers of a section on history
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of archaeology for that conference, which is one of the major international gatherings of
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professional archaeologists. On the strength of that, they did allow me to go into the store rooms
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of the museum and photograph and study the artifacts, finally. This is a picture of me
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in the museum there, store rooms. These are some of those very same 50 million year old artifacts
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from the California gold mines, which are not displayed to the public, but with some persistence,
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I was able to get in there and see them. Also, from some of the old maps and documents,
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I decided I wanted to try to relocate some of the gold mines that these objects came from.
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This is Table Mountain in Tuolumne County, as it exists today. I showed you the diagram there.
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Trying to find these gold mines was like looking for needles and haystacks, but somehow or other
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with my team of assistants. This is on the left there, Laurie, who's back there at the table,
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and another one of my assistants is a graduate student in archaeology. Using the old maps
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and documents, we actually were able to find, now I can't tell you exactly where this is,
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but we were able to locate some of the old mining tunnels where these objects were found.
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And it's going to be the subject of some further research.
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I mean, how far back in time does this evidence really go?
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One thing I'd like to point out is all the discoveries I've mentioned to you up to this
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point are discoveries that were made by professional scientists and reported in the
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professional scientific literature. But just as in the case of UFOs, it's not just that scientists
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see these things or find these things. Ordinary people also make discoveries, and their reports,
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although you might not find them in the pages of the scientific literature, they might make
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their way into other literature such as ordinary newspapers. So this is a report from the Morrison
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ville Times from Morrisonville, Illinois, the year 1892. It tells of a gold chain that was
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found solidly embedded in a piece of coal. This piece of coal was being put by a woman named
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Mrs. Culp into a coal burning stove. The piece of coal was very big, it broke in half, and inside
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she found the gold chain. Now from this report, we could tell what mine that the coal came from,
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and we got in touch with geologists from the state of Illinois, and they told us that the
29:23.440 --> 29:31.200
coal from this mine is 300 million years old. Now going back to the scientific literature,
29:31.200 --> 29:38.400
in the year 1862, a scientific journal called The Geologist published a report that a complete
29:38.400 --> 29:45.600
anatomically modern human skeleton was found about 90 feet below the surface of the ground
29:45.600 --> 29:52.720
in MacCupin County, Illinois, and directly above the skeleton was a thick layer of slate rock
29:52.720 --> 29:59.200
that extended for dozens of yards in all directions, completely sealing the skeleton off from the
29:59.200 --> 30:07.040
surface. And geologists told us that the layers here where the skeleton was found were again about
30:07.040 --> 30:13.600
300 million years old, you know, the same age as the gold chain found in the same state.
30:14.640 --> 30:22.160
This interesting report from Scientific American tells of a beautiful metallic vase that was found
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solidly embedded in rock that is about 600 million years old. And finally,
30:32.240 --> 30:37.920
the oldest objects that I encountered in the research that I did were round metallic spheres
30:37.920 --> 30:44.480
that have been found over the past 30 years or so by miners in South Africa. Now they come from a mine
30:45.920 --> 30:52.640
near a place called Otosdalen in the western Transvaal region. The objects, they're not huge
30:52.640 --> 31:00.720
like this, they're one or two inches in diameter. They are made, at least the one that was analyzed
31:00.720 --> 31:08.800
by metallurgists before we filmed the mysterious Origins of Man television show, turned out to be
31:08.800 --> 31:17.440
made of a naturally occurring iron ore called hematite. Hematite is used by different tribal
31:17.440 --> 31:22.480
peoples in Africa even today as a semi-precious stone. They make jewelry and other types of
31:22.480 --> 31:29.840
objects out of it. What's interesting about these objects are the parallel grooves that go around
31:29.840 --> 31:36.800
the equator of each object. This one has three parallel grooves, exactly parallel. Some of them
31:36.800 --> 31:45.600
have four, some have three, some have two. I gave one of these objects to researchers to look at
31:45.600 --> 31:53.360
one of these objects to researchers from New England Mufon, New Hampshire Mufon. They had some
31:53.360 --> 32:00.880
engineers there who were interested and they sliced one in half and the engineer who was studying
32:00.880 --> 32:13.280
them measured from the center out to the edge, you know the radius. He said the radius, he said
32:13.280 --> 32:20.720
varied only by one four thousandth of an inch, you know all the way around. So he considered it
32:20.720 --> 32:27.520
to be very finely machined, a very finely machined object to a tolerance that's very
32:27.520 --> 32:31.600
you know difficult even for you know manufacturers today to reach.
32:34.640 --> 32:39.200
But what's interesting about these objects is they're found solidly embedded in mineral deposits
32:39.200 --> 32:46.000
over two billion years old. And the metallurgists who did examine them say they could see no way
32:46.000 --> 32:50.400
in which they could have formed naturally in the layers of the earth and therefore they had to have
32:50.400 --> 33:03.600
been manufactured by someone with human-like intelligence. So generally as I said we're told
33:03.600 --> 33:08.720
that you know all the fiscal evidence supports this idea that humans of our type came into
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existence only about a hundred thousand years ago, but I think that's not true. I've only given you
33:14.160 --> 33:20.880
a tiny sample you know of the evidence for extreme human antiquity that's there, that's documented
33:20.880 --> 33:26.960
in forbidden archaeology. But you know I can assure you that there are massive amounts of evidence
33:26.960 --> 33:33.200
showing that humans of our type have been present throughout this entire period of time. And you know
33:33.200 --> 33:42.720
I think if we want to theorize about how extraterrestrial interventions may have influenced
33:42.720 --> 33:47.520
the presence and development of the human species on this planet, we have to take this evidence
33:48.960 --> 33:50.960
into account.
33:54.480 --> 33:59.920
Now the second we can what I'd like to do now is move on to the second of this evening's topics.
33:59.920 --> 34:08.880
I was asked to give a little preview of what's coming in in my book, Human Devolution, which
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will be out this fall. This is the the cover of it. It's you know the book is going into production,
34:14.240 --> 34:22.000
but it won't be available for sale until later this year. It's called Human Devolution,
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a Vedic alternative to Darwin's theory, and it includes quite a bit of information that comes
34:29.200 --> 34:34.240
from the UFO field, because I think that's part of the story.
34:41.360 --> 34:48.080
Basically the evidence in forbidden archaeology shows that humans of our type have coexisted
34:48.880 --> 34:52.720
with various types of apes and monkeys and ape men on this planet, but it doesn't,
34:53.440 --> 34:58.880
that evidence doesn't tell us anything about where we originally came from or how we came to be.
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So I propose however that before we ask the question, you know, where did human beings come
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from, we should first of all ask the question, what is a human being? And most scientists today
35:15.600 --> 35:20.800
will say that a human being is simply a combination of the ordinary physical elements,
35:21.440 --> 35:29.280
you know like iron, calcium, phosphorus, but I am going to propose that it's more reasonable
35:30.000 --> 35:36.480
to start with the assumption that a human being is composed of three things, ordinary matter,
35:37.360 --> 35:44.720
and mind, and consciousness, or you know spirit, each existing as separate elements.
35:44.720 --> 35:50.480
Now the ordinary matter we really don't have to talk about, but what about this mind element?
35:50.480 --> 35:58.640
I'm going to define mind as a subtle material energy associated with a human organism that can
35:58.640 --> 36:04.720
act on ordinary matter in ways that we can't explain by our current laws of physics, and this
36:04.720 --> 36:11.520
is something you encounter, you know, in the alien abduction literature and reports, and also
36:11.520 --> 36:19.680
in some of the UFO reports. Just like wind is a subtle thing, you can't see it, but you can
36:19.680 --> 36:29.120
observe its actions as it moves over water, you know, making waves. Now is there any scientific
36:29.120 --> 36:36.160
evidence for the existence of this mind element, or this consciousness element as well? And there
36:36.160 --> 36:41.120
is, but again, you know, there's been a tremendous amount of knowledge filtering going on in this
36:41.120 --> 36:48.000
particular field, and I'll just mention a few things this evening in this preview.
36:51.040 --> 36:56.560
Some of the evidence for this mind element comes from a very interesting person. This is Alfred
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Russell Wallace, a famous English biologist. Actually he was the co-founder with Darwin
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of the theory of evolution by natural selection, but he was also involved in
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psychical research. Now in most biology textbooks, you'll read about his contributions to the theory
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of evolution, but you won't read anything about his experiments in the paranormal.
37:24.640 --> 37:32.000
Actually Darwin was quite upset with him. He said, by researching into these paranormal types,
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into these paranormal topics, you're murdering our joint child, the theory of evolution.
37:37.760 --> 37:46.560
So Charles Darwin was very unhappy with Wallace, but Wallace was joined in his psychical research
37:46.560 --> 37:55.840
by another English scientist, Sir William Crookes, who received a Nobel Prize in physics, and he was
37:55.840 --> 38:03.520
also president of the Royal Society, which still is England's premier scientific organization.
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They were investigating mediums. One of the mediums they investigated was Daniel
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Dunglass Hume, and he could do some interesting things. He could take an accordion
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and he would hold it with one hand here, and the keys would be here, and just holding it with one hand,
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he could make this play elaborate tunes. It was really inexplicable. Of course, being good
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experimental scientists, Wallace and Crookes thought, well, what could possibly be going on here?
38:40.720 --> 38:46.560
The first consideration was, well, he's got a trick accordion. So they bought a brand new accordion
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and used that in their experiments. Then they decided, they thought, well, somehow or other,
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by some sleight of hand, he could be getting his other hand down there on the keys.
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So they constructed a cage so that he would have to hold the accordion like this,
39:03.200 --> 39:12.000
you know, the keys are down here. And then they made this experimental setup, and they said that
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under these circumstances, he could still cause the accordion to play elaborate tunes.
39:17.520 --> 39:24.960
And then beyond that, both Wallace and Crookes said that on several occasions, they saw Hume
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remove his hand completely from the cage, and they saw the accordion floating in the middle of the
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cage, playing elaborate tunes all by itself. Now you have to wonder, why would this Nobel
39:38.400 --> 39:44.240
Prize physicist and the co-founder of the theory of evolution write about these things? Did they
39:44.240 --> 39:48.800
have some kind of psychological death wish, in that they wanted all of their colleagues to think
39:48.800 --> 39:55.200
they'd gone completely insane and ruined their careers? I don't think so. I think they wrote
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about these things because they actually observed them, and they wanted their colleagues and the
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public to know about them. They also on several occasions saw Hume levitate, and these levitations
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were not done on a stage where you could have elaborate apparatus as magicians do today. They
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occurred in the drawing rooms of ordinary English people, and he would just, right in the middle
40:29.280 --> 40:34.480
of a group of people just rise into the air in a home where he'd never been before, where there
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was no opportunity for him to prepare any type of elaborate apparatus, and both Wallace and Crookes
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testified to this in writing several times. Another example, Marie and Pierre Curie, every
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physics student learns about them. They got Nobel prizes for their work in discovering radium.
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You read about that in every textbook. What you don't read about in the textbooks is that they
41:01.760 --> 41:09.120
were heavily involved in psychical research. They were part of a group of about 20 prominent
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European scientists who were working in Paris early in the 20th century. The group included
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about five Nobel Prize winners, and they were conducting extensive research into paranormal
41:20.080 --> 41:28.080
phenomena. They were examining in particular the Italian medium Eusepia Palladino, and on one
41:28.080 --> 41:36.800
occasion, just to give you an example, the medium was sitting in a chair. Marie Curie was controlling
41:36.800 --> 41:43.360
her hands. Other scientists were controlling her feet, and this occurred in broad daylight in a
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laboratory in the Psychological Research Institute in Paris, and Pierre Curie, the Nobel Prize winning
41:49.760 --> 41:56.320
physicist, said that a large table like this was floating in the air in the middle of the room in
41:56.320 --> 42:03.920
broad daylight with nothing touching it. So all the scientists signed documents saying that these
42:03.920 --> 42:10.080
things were true. Pierre Curie's research notes are still there in the scientific archives in Paris,
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and he wrote numerous letters to his prominent physicist friends saying these things are
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absolutely true and they have to be taken into account. Now I could go on and on about this,
42:20.400 --> 42:26.480
but what does it mean? To me it means there's a mind element associated with a human organism
42:26.480 --> 42:32.400
that can act on ordinary matter in ways that we can't explain by our current laws of physics.
42:33.920 --> 42:38.560
Then what about this consciousness element? Is there any scientific evidence for that?
42:39.280 --> 42:45.200
And I believe there is in the form, well one area it comes from is medical and psychiatric
42:45.200 --> 42:51.520
reports of out-of-body experiences where the conscious self appears to separate from
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the body. Michael Sabum, an American cardiologist, wrote an extensive report about
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these happenings, and he asked himself a question at the end of his book which is called
43:06.240 --> 43:11.760
recollections of death, a medical investigation. He says is this conscious self that appears to
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separate from the brain during these moments of extreme crisis, could that be the soul that the
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great religions of the world have always talked about? Now he didn't answer the question, but I
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believe and I believe he believed that the answer was to that question was yes. So what does this mean?
43:30.160 --> 43:37.760
I mean it means to me that for probably our whole universe, our whole cosmos is structured
43:38.960 --> 43:43.920
according to levels of ordinary matter, subtle mind, and
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pure consciousness or spirit. And that means you know if we want to explain, excuse me, human origins,
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if we want to explain human origins, then we have to do more than just try to explain how the chemicals
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came together. We have to try to explain how consciousness, mind, and matter came together
44:14.240 --> 44:23.040
in the human form. And mostly these days people, they seem to want very simple explanations. Either
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they want a very simple creation account where God just immediately creates everything, or they
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want some simple evolutionary account where chemicals combine in the earth's early ocean and
44:35.680 --> 44:44.800
then they turn into human beings. Or they want some very simple extraterrestrial intervention
44:44.800 --> 44:51.360
type of account. But I think the actual story is going to be much more complicated. I think it's
44:51.360 --> 44:56.880
going to involve all of these things and that's what I'm proposing in human devolution. I'm
44:56.880 --> 45:02.560
proposing that yes some guiding cosmic intelligence is involved in the process of human origins,
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but there is also an evolutionary process going on in the cosmos. By evolution we mean
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reproduction with modification. Things reproduce, living organisms, they reproduce, and in the
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course of that reproduction there are changes. But what I would propose is that yes there is
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a reproductive process going on. I think you get into this in some of your alien abduction
45:33.200 --> 45:41.120
reports about strange variations of the reproductive process. So what I'm going to
45:41.120 --> 45:46.880
suggest is that there is a reproductive process going on in the cosmos by which higher beings
45:47.600 --> 45:54.800
through a process of what we might call controlled breeding or guided genetic engineering are through
45:54.800 --> 46:03.600
their reproductive processes generating the forms of the living organisms that we see on our planet,
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including the human organism. But it's the opposite of the Darwinian evolutionary concept,
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which is why I call it devolution. The Darwinian process starts with the most simple things and
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then builds up to the more complex. Whereas I'm proposing that we start from the more complex
46:25.440 --> 46:31.600
things and by their reproductive processes they generate you could say the simpler ones.
46:31.600 --> 46:39.440
In that process of reproduction it goes from more subtle elements to denser elements.
46:41.920 --> 46:44.640
There's a lot that could be said about that, but I think that's...
46:45.600 --> 46:46.640
And then also
46:49.680 --> 46:54.880
there is an extraterrestrial element to it as well because it's a process that's not only happening
46:54.880 --> 47:00.160
on our earth but it's going on throughout the cosmos. The ancient Sanskrit writings do speak
47:00.160 --> 47:06.320
of such things. They do speak of people on this planet who are the product of reproductive
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processes involving beings from other planets or other dimensions of the universe. And of course
47:12.880 --> 47:17.600
the ancient Sanskrit writings, as many of you are aware, speak of Vimanas,
47:17.600 --> 47:24.160
of various types of spacecraft that travel from planet to planet on our dimension. And then there
47:24.160 --> 47:33.360
are also extradimensional craft that can travel between different dimensions. And there are
47:33.920 --> 47:41.600
forms of life adapted to all of these planets and all of these dimensions. And our human organisms
47:41.600 --> 47:47.760
on this planet are connected with all of these different dimensions and different organisms on
47:47.760 --> 47:53.280
other planets. So the actual picture of human origins may be much more complicated than
47:54.080 --> 47:58.160
any simple creation account or any simple evolution account or any
47:58.160 --> 48:05.040
extraterrestrial account that we're now familiar with. So that's a little preview of
48:05.840 --> 48:16.000
my next book, Human Devolution. And I think this human devolution concept in connection with this
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archaeological evidence for extreme human antiquity has the characteristic of a good scientific
48:22.240 --> 48:29.360
explanation because a good scientific explanation should naturally accommodate the facts that are
48:29.440 --> 48:35.040
out there in the world without artificially manipulating the data set. To keep their ideas
48:35.040 --> 48:40.640
about human origins intact, today's scientists have to ignore all of this evidence for extreme
48:40.640 --> 48:45.280
human antiquity that actually is there in the museums that scientists have actually discovered.
48:46.000 --> 48:55.120
They also have to ignore all of this evidence for the UFO and alien phenomenon. They have to ignore
48:55.840 --> 49:00.000
all of this scientific evidence for the existence of mind and consciousness
49:00.800 --> 49:06.880
as separately existing elements. They have to ignore all the knowledge that's accumulated
49:06.880 --> 49:12.160
in the great wisdom traditions of the world. Who's dealing with reality?
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I think they're excluding vast categories of evidence from the real world out there to
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maintain their particular theories. So now the third topic that I was asked to talk about
49:32.880 --> 49:38.720
was mentioned on the LA MUFON website that I would talk about evidence for a sunken city
49:38.720 --> 49:47.600
off the coast of India. So it is a fact that last, well actually not last year, but about a year and
49:47.600 --> 49:55.200
a half ago, Indian oceanographers discovered remains of a sunken city in the Gulf of Cambay,
49:55.840 --> 50:02.080
which is here off the coast of the Indian state of Gujarat in this part here.
50:07.120 --> 50:16.080
Actually last year I attended a meeting in Hyderabad where the Indian government's
50:16.080 --> 50:24.880
minister of science was present and we had an opportunity to discuss this discovery. I was there
50:24.880 --> 50:37.360
and Minister Joshi was also there. The discoveries were made by this team of oceanographers who worked
50:37.360 --> 50:43.920
for Mr Joshi's department in the National Institute of Ocean Studies.
50:45.520 --> 50:52.080
What they were doing is they were doing side scan sonar mapping of the sea bottom off the coast of
50:52.080 --> 50:59.840
Gujarat. In their sonar images they found what appeared to be archaeological structures,
50:59.920 --> 51:09.120
structures of buildings going along the bank of an ancient river channel that's now under the ocean.
51:10.240 --> 51:17.520
That's one of the side scan sonar images. This is another one of the side scan sonar images of
51:17.520 --> 51:28.720
apparent structures deep below the sea there. When this was first reported some scientists were
51:28.720 --> 51:36.880
very skeptical. They said, well perhaps these things aren't human structures at all.
51:37.440 --> 51:43.520
Now to test that, this is what they thought the settlements would have looked like
51:44.320 --> 51:51.680
when they were above water. But to test this you can see the water is very turbulent,
51:51.680 --> 52:00.000
it's very dark. They were not able to send divers down there to do a visual inspection.
52:00.000 --> 52:05.920
They were able to do the sonar scans but to sort of determine what was down there they did some
52:05.920 --> 52:13.520
dredging. This is the dredge that they were putting down and what they came up with was
52:13.520 --> 52:20.560
pretty interesting. They came up with semi-precious stones that were drilled with holes for beads
52:21.920 --> 52:28.640
they also came up with human bones. This is a human vertebrae and this is part of a human
52:28.640 --> 52:36.960
jaw bone that came up from the dredging. This was a stone with some engravings on it. They also
52:37.600 --> 52:46.080
found a piece of wood, they dredged up a piece of wood that gave a carbon date of 9,500 years.
52:46.960 --> 52:55.360
That would make that the oldest city in the world. This is the Gulf of Combay city.
52:57.120 --> 53:03.840
At 7,500 years BC that would make it older than any of the other urban civilizations that are known,
53:04.800 --> 53:11.600
including the Egyptian, the Anatolian, the Sumerian, the Indus Valley civilization,
53:11.600 --> 53:18.800
and the early Chinese civilization. It's really an interesting discovery. It's quite controversial.
53:18.800 --> 53:24.960
There's a lot of debate going on about it now. To do any further research
53:27.280 --> 53:32.400
it's going to have to be some kind of multi-million dollar project with these
53:34.080 --> 53:39.120
submersibles going down there. Up to this point it hasn't been
53:39.920 --> 53:46.000
organized yet. We'll see what further developments come from that. There are
53:46.000 --> 53:50.240
other projects that I'm personally working on. They don't cost millions of dollars so I'm able
53:50.240 --> 54:00.560
to do them myself. They're interesting even from the standpoint of the idea of extraterrestrials.
54:01.120 --> 54:07.120
This is the temple complex of Sri Rangam in southern India.
54:09.120 --> 54:13.440
That temple complex is the largest temple complex in India. It's located
54:13.440 --> 54:26.240
down here in the Tamil Nadu state. The temple complex has seven walls going around
54:27.200 --> 54:34.960
the central temple complex. The temple complex is on an island in the Kavari River that goes through
54:34.960 --> 54:46.000
there. The idol in the temple, the deity form that's in the temple, is a reclining form of
54:46.000 --> 54:52.560
Vishnu lying on a bed of serpents. According to the traditional accounts, this is a very interesting
54:53.520 --> 55:00.080
idol. It's said it was originally worshiped on another planet called Brahmaloka.
55:02.160 --> 55:10.080
Then millions of years ago it was brought to earth and it was worshiped in a city called
55:10.080 --> 55:20.640
Ayodhya in northern India. Then it was transferred by a Vimana, by a spacecraft
55:21.360 --> 55:30.640
from northern India to southern India. The spacecraft, the Vimana, landed on that island
55:31.200 --> 55:40.560
in the Kavari River. It was supposed to go further but there was a condition attached
55:40.560 --> 55:45.200
to the transport of this idol that if it stopped anywhere it would just stay there and it couldn't
55:45.280 --> 55:56.160
be moved. When it landed on that island, in that river, it had to stay there and therefore
55:56.160 --> 56:02.320
a temple was built there millions of years ago. Then over the course of time that temple was lost.
56:03.520 --> 56:13.120
It was covered over by jungle and sand and things like that until about somewhere between 10,000 and
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5,000 years ago it was rediscovered and another temple was built there. It's an interesting
56:23.040 --> 56:34.880
history. See this gold structure here? The form of the idol is in the building below. It's directly
56:34.880 --> 56:42.960
below this. This structure here, which you find in all Indian temples, above in the place above
56:44.320 --> 56:51.200
on the building, above where the idol is, the deity is, they have something called a Vimana,
56:52.000 --> 56:55.040
interestingly enough, which is the word for spacecraft.
56:56.000 --> 56:57.760
The
57:02.640 --> 57:09.520
now that the most recent structures in the temple are said by traditional sources to be about
57:10.160 --> 57:18.480
5,000 years old. That's interesting because according to current historians there should
57:18.480 --> 57:26.080
have been no Vedic culture present in India 5,000 years ago. Certainly no temples,
57:27.280 --> 57:34.240
complex temple structures like that. I'm a little interested in this particular place and
57:34.880 --> 57:41.520
I'm interested in trying to show that it's at least 5,000 years old and what to speak of.
57:41.520 --> 57:47.920
This whole history of that idol coming from other planets by spacecraft, that's another whole area.
57:47.920 --> 57:55.280
What I would like to show to archaeologists and historians is that place is at least
57:57.120 --> 58:04.480
5,000 years old. There are some documents that say that this is the third wall,
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the third boundary wall of the temple. There are seven boundary walls.
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This, according to some ancient documents, is about 5,000 years old.
58:15.360 --> 58:22.400
I went to this place with an Indian archaeologist who's promised to be helpful. Our first
58:22.400 --> 58:26.000
effort is just to see if there's any place where we could do some excavations.
58:26.640 --> 58:33.280
Obviously we couldn't do it somewhere like this because it's open to the public and it's
58:33.840 --> 58:42.080
just too much built up. We did find some places along the boundary wall where we possibly could
58:42.080 --> 58:47.520
do some excavations. This is the Indian archaeologist who's helping me get the
58:47.520 --> 58:52.320
proper permissions from the temple authorities and the archaeological survey of India to do this
58:52.320 --> 58:59.680
research. We were mainly just looking for places where we could do this. We did find some open
58:59.680 --> 59:06.320
places where we could do that research. If the proper permissions are obtained, then I would
59:06.320 --> 59:16.160
go back there in December to do that research. Those are my three topics. The evidence for
59:16.160 --> 59:21.440
extreme human antiquity and the extraterrestrial hypothesis, a little preview of my book,
59:21.440 --> 59:27.360
Human Devolution, and a little report on the sunken city and some other work that I'm doing
59:27.360 --> 59:33.200
in India. Thank you very much for coming here this evening.
59:33.200 --> 59:44.080
Thank you so much, Michael. I was trying to cover millions and millions of years of information in
59:44.080 --> 59:48.960
just an hour and a half and you did a great job. Folks, I know he's here now and we want to ask
59:48.960 --> 59:53.680
him a few questions. What we'd like to ask you to do is come up where the video camera is. We have
59:53.680 --> 01:00:01.680
a microphone set up there. Just go ahead and line up one question at a time, please. Please
01:00:01.680 --> 01:00:08.160
phrase it in the form of a question. We'll have points deducted from your score. Don't be shy.
01:00:08.160 --> 01:00:16.640
Come on down. Hi, how you doing? Great. Thanks. Concerning San Pedro, man, are you familiar with
01:00:17.120 --> 01:00:24.400
that one up in Wyoming or wherever it was? You'll have to tell me a little bit more about it.
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:30.320
It was the little three-foot mummy that was found while a couple people were gold mining
01:00:30.320 --> 01:00:36.480
up in Wyoming or somewhere and they blasted away some rock and then they found there was a
01:00:36.480 --> 01:00:41.360
cavern in there and there was like a two or three-foot mummy on the shelf in there.
01:00:41.600 --> 01:00:48.000
I learn something new every day and particularly I learn things when I come to speak
01:00:49.040 --> 01:00:53.760
before groups like this. So now that is something new for me. I'm not familiar with it.
01:00:56.240 --> 01:01:00.000
Then actually I won't be able to ask the question. Go ahead and ask the question.
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:04.320
Well, it concerned because I actually just wrote a paper that I posted on the internet about this
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:11.040
and somebody had sent me some documentation about mummification rituals and how they had had
01:01:11.040 --> 01:01:17.040
shrunken like in modern days in the last couple hundred years that they had had shrunken beings.
01:01:17.040 --> 01:01:22.000
I guess there's a way that you could mummify something that would shrink and I was just
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:26.720
wondering if you had any information or any correlation between any of the other stuff.
01:01:27.680 --> 01:01:35.040
Well, see one thing is interesting is that you do find if you go through the literature,
01:01:35.040 --> 01:01:40.480
I wasn't familiar with this particular case, but you do find evidence for extremely large
01:01:40.480 --> 01:01:47.280
and extremely small size humans that have existed on this planet. So I think that's interesting.
01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:54.480
As far as mummification techniques go, I mean obviously if you're mummifying something it's
01:01:54.480 --> 01:02:00.240
going to shrivel and shrink, but I think there's a limit to what you could do to the bone structure.
01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:07.680
I mean that would be the thought that I would have that yeah the fleshy parts are obviously
01:02:07.680 --> 01:02:12.880
going to shrink up. Whether they could, you know, by mummification techniques cause
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:18.000
you know the bones to shrink, I'm not so sure about that.
01:02:18.000 --> 01:02:22.320
Well thank you. I'll email you a couple pictures because I have a couple pictures that they're
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:26.480
like two feet. These are modern day mummies that have been modified and they're two or three feet.
01:02:27.600 --> 01:02:31.840
I would love to have that. I think I've got a card over there on my table. It's got my email
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:38.400
address on it. I'd like to hear that, get that report from you. Good evening. Given that there's
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:46.720
evidence for human beings millions and millions of years ago, is time travel a possible explanation
01:02:46.720 --> 01:02:48.880
for at least some of those observations?
01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:57.200
What I've done in Forbidden Archaeology is simply put the facts out there and I'm happy to have
01:02:57.200 --> 01:03:04.480
people try to account for you know this evidence in any way that makes sense to them. Different
01:03:04.480 --> 01:03:10.960
different attempts have been made to explain the evidence. Time travel, by which I think you mean
01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:18.320
reverse time travel, is an idea that has been brought up. Extratrasterile visitations are
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:26.800
another idea that's been brought up. I tend to favor the idea that they are humans that existed
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:36.240
at that time. The Vedic literature does give some information about time travel but not reverse
01:03:36.240 --> 01:03:45.440
time travel. The Vedic literature speaks about relativistic time effects. Say where a being
01:03:45.440 --> 01:03:50.240
living on this planet will go to one of the higher dimensional planets and apparently stay there only
01:03:50.240 --> 01:03:54.320
for a few minutes and then come back to earth and find that millions of years have passed.
01:03:54.880 --> 01:04:01.760
So you could say that that's sort of a kind of time travel. You know where you go to one dimension,
01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:07.440
you come back and you know you've skipped over millions of years and you're still in your same
01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:18.480
body. I think that sort of thing is possible. Whether reverse time travel like that is
01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:28.560
possible, it may be. From different Vedic sages and different accounts we learn about a
01:04:28.560 --> 01:04:36.720
something, a human ability called tri kalagya means the ability to know past, present, and future
01:04:36.720 --> 01:04:45.440
instantaneously so that it may be possible to get information from different points in time, either
01:04:45.440 --> 01:04:53.760
past, present, or future by some sorts of means that we're not able to do now. Whether it's
01:04:54.720 --> 01:05:01.200
possible to physically transport oneself back in time, that's something. I mean there are
01:05:01.200 --> 01:05:06.720
different theorists who are proposing that it may or may not be possible through wormholes or
01:05:06.720 --> 01:05:12.720
black holes or things like that. I think it's among the modern cosmologists and astrophysicists,
01:05:12.720 --> 01:05:17.920
it's a matter of debate. Some of them would say you just get torn up. Anything that would go
01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:23.120
through a black hole or wormhole would just get torn up. Others say it may be possible.
01:05:24.320 --> 01:05:30.480
So what's your opinion? I don't know, I'm just trying to keep an open mind right now and
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:34.160
yeah just fascinated that there's the information to work with. Thank you.
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:42.960
Do you know anything about the sunken complex of temples that's sunken off the southeast coast
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:52.320
of India near Mahalapalabrum? Yes, there's work going on there. Graham Hancock has
01:05:53.120 --> 01:06:00.000
gone there and done some diving there. There's also I believe just a team of regular archaeologists
01:06:00.000 --> 01:06:10.000
that's been out there. I think the big question will be the age of those remains. If they can be
01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:18.480
shown to be 5,000 years old or older that would be quite revolutionary for the whole picture of
01:06:19.120 --> 01:06:24.960
the origin of civilization in India. If they turn out to be 10,000 years old that would be
01:06:25.520 --> 01:06:31.440
quite revolutionary for the whole current picture of civilization anywhere in the world.
01:06:32.240 --> 01:06:37.040
And if they turn out to be even older than that then that would be quite interesting for me.
01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:44.800
So yes. Hi, given this interesting information you gave tonight about
01:06:45.360 --> 01:06:50.880
mind and spirit I wonder if you had ever considered if you ever had put any of these objects in the
01:06:50.880 --> 01:06:55.440
hands of gifted psychometrists without telling them the background of any of them and seeing
01:06:55.440 --> 01:07:02.480
if they can get a feel for the manufacturers or users of them that they might visualize
01:07:02.480 --> 01:07:06.800
the actual people who originally constructed them or used them.
01:07:07.680 --> 01:07:12.240
There's one standing right behind you. Sandra Marsh. I think you remember at the
01:07:15.840 --> 01:07:23.360
conference in Nevada. Where was that at? Laughlin? Laughlin UFO. We had one of the
01:07:25.440 --> 01:07:32.240
metallic spheres from South Africa which you were holding and getting some impression from.
01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:39.280
I don't know if you recall what your impressions were at that time. I was just happy to be holding
01:07:40.160 --> 01:07:48.640
over two billion years old. Yes. I would love to have someone do some things like that.
01:07:48.640 --> 01:07:54.560
I think that would be very interesting. Yeah, that was a while ago. What I'm going to ask you
01:07:54.560 --> 01:07:59.840
is in regard to a conversation we had a while ago. We haven't really spoken because you've
01:07:59.840 --> 01:08:07.280
been really busy traveling. This is about the block wall found in Oklahoma and we had discussed
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:13.680
possibly you being able to get some sort of funding to go down into that. I believe it's
01:08:13.680 --> 01:08:20.800
a coal mine and could you tell people a little bit about that story and has anything come of
01:08:20.800 --> 01:08:29.280
that? Any funding? Any further research? I have not been able to take that any further.
01:08:31.040 --> 01:08:36.720
See, I've got things that I am trying to take further and there's more than one person can do,
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:47.360
so feel free anyone to take up these projects. But the reports were from miners in Heaviner,
01:08:47.360 --> 01:08:59.760
Oklahoma who went down two miles deep in a coal mine and they were using dynamite to blast open
01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:08.080
what they call rooms in the mines and then they would take out the coal. So they dynamited one
01:09:08.080 --> 01:09:20.960
room and the miners saw at one end what appeared to be a wall and it was made of blocks of polished
01:09:20.960 --> 01:09:28.800
stone, they said, about six inches square and they said the surface of the stone was polished
01:09:29.600 --> 01:09:37.280
so finely that it was almost like a mirror. They could see reflections in it. They said, the miners
01:09:37.280 --> 01:09:43.360
said that when they reported this to the mining officials, they were taken out of the mines
01:09:44.320 --> 01:09:57.280
and sent somewhere else. Unfortunately, I myself have not been able to look into that case
01:09:59.040 --> 01:10:06.800
any further. As you see, I do try to follow up on some of these cases, but on that particular
01:10:06.800 --> 01:10:15.840
one I haven't been able to do anything more about it. I do think that coal miners are a source of
01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:23.680
a lot of information about these things. As I said, it's not only just scientists that are
01:10:23.680 --> 01:10:28.560
finding things, ordinary people find them. Unfortunately, like a lot of the work that's
01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:33.120
being done in mining these days is being done with huge machines that just grind everything up.
01:10:33.920 --> 01:10:40.880
There's not as much hands-on work being done in the mines in this country anymore, but in other
01:10:40.880 --> 01:10:49.040
countries, miners still are working in a hands-on fashion. So no, Sondra, I have not been able to
01:10:49.040 --> 01:10:53.600
make any further progress on that particular case. Well, thank you for everything that you have done.
01:10:53.600 --> 01:11:00.000
It's been incredible. How old was that layer though that the block walls were found?
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:06.640
That comes from the Carboniferous period. That would be in the range of roughly 300 million
01:11:07.840 --> 01:11:19.040
years. Have you thought about other planets that are more hospitable to what you might call human
01:11:19.120 --> 01:11:30.640
growth and reproduction in this planet? Yes. As I said, I think there is an extraterrestrial
01:11:30.640 --> 01:11:45.200
element to the whole process. Many researchers in these fields are inspired by writings of
01:11:45.200 --> 01:11:50.160
various ancient civilizations, whether they're the Sumerian text or the Egyptian text or
01:11:50.160 --> 01:11:57.760
Mayan text. I'm familiar with a lot of them. I focus myself on the Vedic text, the Sanskrit text,
01:11:58.480 --> 01:12:04.480
which do speak about 400,000 human species scattered throughout the universe on various
01:12:04.480 --> 01:12:13.520
planets. So I think we only represent a tiny portion here of the actual human population
01:12:13.520 --> 01:12:25.840
of the universe. Last question. Given that some of these people could levitate, predict the future,
01:12:25.840 --> 01:12:40.000
whatever psycho powers they have, and your new devolution theory, why would the upper ranks
01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:44.160
bother to give folks here on earth those powers?
01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:51.840
Why would they bother to give those powers? Yeah, so rarely at that.
01:12:56.320 --> 01:13:03.840
It appears that things go in cycles because it would appear that in previous ages,
01:13:04.800 --> 01:13:11.600
people on this planet had more of these powers than we do today. As a matter of fact, it appears
01:13:12.400 --> 01:13:19.280
that what we are attempting to do today is reproduce these powers through technical means. In other words,
01:13:19.280 --> 01:13:25.680
people may have had extra sensory perception, abilities to perceive things naturally at a
01:13:25.680 --> 01:13:30.480
distance in more ancient times. If you look at records of various ancient civilizations,
01:13:30.480 --> 01:13:36.640
it seems to have been quite a common thing. Today we rely on CNN, the World Wide Web,
01:13:36.640 --> 01:13:43.520
television, satellites. I think that's simply an attempt to reproduce the same. Why do we even try
01:13:43.520 --> 01:13:49.120
to do those things? I think it's because it's a natural ability that we once had, and we're trying
01:13:49.120 --> 01:14:00.400
to reproduce it through technical means today. Why that is, I really can't say why at times
01:14:01.200 --> 01:14:08.480
we are given access to those types of powers and why at a particular time we're not.
01:14:10.000 --> 01:14:17.840
The Vedic literature speaks of a cycle of ages that repeats. There's a golden age where most
01:14:17.840 --> 01:14:24.080
people have these powers, and then it's reduced by 25%, another 25%, and now we're in a fourth age.
01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:31.280
And then the cycle will go on again, just as in the year. We find there's spring, summer, fall,
01:14:31.280 --> 01:14:38.480
winter. Why is it like that? It's just the way nature is. So it just appears to be a natural
01:14:38.480 --> 01:14:45.440
phenomenon that these powers are sometimes given and sometimes taken away, as far as I can tell.
01:14:48.240 --> 01:15:01.760
Yes. Say when you find a human boot in a geological layer that supposedly would have
01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:09.920
belonged to the age of the dinosaurs, and then you've got the sphinx and the great pyramid that were
01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:15.840
obviously built before there was recorded history, how can you
01:15:17.040 --> 01:15:24.320
state that a linear timeline applies in both cases? In other words, where you've got
01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:34.080
a crisscross of timelines on this planet, and you've got time travelers, and you've got
01:15:34.080 --> 01:15:41.440
interdimensional shifts. So have you been able to draw any conclusions in that direction?
01:15:42.080 --> 01:15:49.840
How do you explain this mystery? Well, what we said in Forbidden Archaeology is that
01:15:50.560 --> 01:15:57.520
our whole picture of time and everything may be in need of revision. But I was addressing
01:15:58.320 --> 01:16:08.640
my work principally to today's scientists who do accept a particular geological history of the
01:16:08.640 --> 01:16:16.480
earth and a particular concept of time. So my idea was if I was going to engage in some kind
01:16:16.480 --> 01:16:23.920
of dialogue with them, there had to be some kind of framework for the discussion. So what I chose
01:16:24.480 --> 01:16:31.600
to do is accept their framework and their sense of time, and then point out to them the anomalies
01:16:34.080 --> 01:16:40.080
that would appear to call these things into question. Now that may not be the only way to
01:16:41.200 --> 01:16:51.040
approach these things. You could start by challenging the assumptions about time and
01:16:51.040 --> 01:16:57.920
the whole geological history of the earth, and constructing a whole worldview in which these
01:16:59.200 --> 01:17:05.680
aren't anomalies, but they're part of the reality of things. It's just that I chose to go about it
01:17:05.680 --> 01:17:12.400
in that particular way, which is why you could say I structure my presentations like that.
01:17:13.040 --> 01:17:21.280
But in Forbidden Archaeology, we do say that yeah, really the whole picture of time may be
01:17:21.280 --> 01:17:29.600
in need of revision. But for the sake of discussion with mainstream scientists,
01:17:30.320 --> 01:17:40.480
I've chosen to go about it in that way. There's a book by Peter Moon and Preston Nichols
01:17:41.280 --> 01:17:48.400
called Montauk Revisited, which stems of course from the Philadelphia experiment, which
01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:58.320
supposedly resulted in time travel. And the promo for this book on the back cover, it says,
01:17:58.320 --> 01:18:05.680
go beyond science, discover the occult principles behind the creation of this time zone.
01:18:05.680 --> 01:18:15.200
So when you find a human boot in a supposed geological layer that
01:18:15.920 --> 01:18:24.400
belonged to the dinosaur age, that's definitely beyond human science, and you're into the occult.
01:18:25.840 --> 01:18:33.920
I do believe that we go, I think in any field, whether we're talking about archaeology or UFO
01:18:33.920 --> 01:18:41.760
studies or physics, if you pursue it to its limits, you do start coming into the realm of
01:18:41.760 --> 01:18:51.600
what you have characterized as the occult. But it's step by step. Maybe you've taken some big steps
01:18:52.640 --> 01:19:00.880
beyond, but I'm kind of interested in bringing people who may not be able to take those big steps
01:19:00.880 --> 01:19:08.000
step by step in that direction. Because I think you're right, in all these fields, if you really
01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:12.960
look at what's there, you are led in that direction. Thanks.
01:19:12.960 --> 01:19:18.960
Those metallic spheres look like bullets to me. I mean, they're very accurately made, so they'd
01:19:18.960 --> 01:19:24.320
have to be able to go through the bore of a gun. The grooves on the modern high-powered rounds
01:19:25.280 --> 01:19:31.680
were shell casings crimped down on a bullet. So I think those are bullets. Are you familiar with
01:19:33.280 --> 01:19:39.120
the Death Valley caves they found in the late 40s? It used to be an inland sea thousands of
01:19:39.120 --> 01:19:45.280
years ago, and they found like nine foot, 10 foot gold mummies, a lot of gold. And they were sending
01:19:45.280 --> 01:19:49.680
them off to the Smithsonian, and then when they got there, the boxcars were empty. They'd been
01:19:49.680 --> 01:19:55.520
removed along the way. And it seems that the common denominator on this planet for these ancient
01:19:56.240 --> 01:20:03.040
sites is gold mining. These ancient gold mines in South Africa, the oldest mines on Earth,
01:20:03.040 --> 01:20:08.800
before there was even copper. So it's like these gold mines seem like the common denominator.
01:20:10.560 --> 01:20:16.160
Yes, and there's also gold mines in the Pacific, like in New Guinea, and places like that as well.
01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:23.120
Yeah. In light of this evidence, what if any of Darwin's theory is still relevant?
01:20:23.920 --> 01:20:30.000
Well, I think, as I mentioned, the essential idea of reproduction with modifications,
01:20:32.160 --> 01:20:37.440
that's what his theory was based on. But I just think he had it turned upside down.
01:20:37.920 --> 01:20:47.040
He wanted to start with the simple chemical elements combining, forming some self-reproducing
01:20:47.040 --> 01:20:54.400
system, which then through reproduction becomes more and more complex, and produces as a by-product
01:20:54.400 --> 01:21:00.960
or an epiphenomenon, mind and consciousness. So I sort of turned the whole thing upside down,
01:21:00.960 --> 01:21:08.160
turned the whole thing upside down, starting with consciousness as not an epiphenomenon,
01:21:08.160 --> 01:21:18.800
but a phenomenon, and mind. And because certain consciousnesses and minds need to be accommodated
01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:28.240
in forms on the gross physical level of reality, there's a generation of forms for them. But
01:21:28.240 --> 01:21:35.120
beginning from the more complex and subtle ones, going down to the grosser ones, but still
01:21:35.120 --> 01:21:42.080
there's a process of reproduction and modification that goes on. So I think what remains for me
01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:48.880
is the essential idea of reproduction and modification, but it isn't random,
01:21:48.880 --> 01:21:53.760
it's intelligently guided. That's what would remain for me.
01:21:54.560 --> 01:21:58.560
It's basically the same principle applies, but his explanation of it's a little different.
01:21:59.920 --> 01:22:04.800
So is there a progression from ape man to homo sapien, or do you think that's
01:22:04.800 --> 01:22:10.720
maybe possibly an incorrect conclusion? Again, I think we start out with the more
01:22:11.520 --> 01:22:22.240
complex forms, then go down to the more simple ones. It's like turning the process
01:22:23.200 --> 01:22:30.880
upside down, you could say. So no, I wouldn't see a progression from apes to ape man to human
01:22:30.880 --> 01:22:37.040
beings. Rather, I would see that those are forms that were generated by higher beings for
01:22:38.880 --> 01:22:51.360
beings existing on this level of reality.