1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:11,800 Amazing grace, how sweet the sound. 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:15,200 Beverly Oliver, the former nightclub singer at the Colony Club, 3 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,400 believes she saw the man who killed the President. 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:27,800 How once was lost. 5 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,199 She was in Dealey Plaza on the morning of the assassination. 6 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:35,799 She carried with her a brand new movie camera to film the President as he passed by. 7 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:38,200 For many years she remained unidentified, 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:43,200 and because of her distinctive headscarf, was known simply as the Babushka Lady. 9 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,799 I had President Kennedy right in my zoom lens. 10 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:47,799 You know, I could see Connolly anytime. 11 00:00:47,799 --> 00:00:49,000 He's a Texan, right? 12 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,799 Appreciate him, love him, he's great, but I wanted to see the President. 13 00:00:54,799 --> 00:00:57,799 In the carnival atmosphere surrounding the motorcade, 14 00:00:57,799 --> 00:01:03,199 there was no indication of the danger lurking seconds away in Dealey Plaza. 15 00:01:03,199 --> 00:01:09,799 When I first heard a noise, I was not aware that that was a shot being fired. 16 00:01:09,799 --> 00:01:11,799 And maybe perhaps that's why I continued to film, 17 00:01:11,799 --> 00:01:15,400 because I thought it was a backfire or a firecracker. 18 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,000 I mean, I wasn't used to being around guns. 19 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:23,400 I did not realize that those were shots until I saw in the frame of my camera, 20 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,400 when President Kennedy's head came off, the back of his head, 21 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,400 then I realized that that was a shot. 22 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:34,400 I don't know how many I heard, I know where I thought the shots came from, 23 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:40,400 was the picket fence area around that large tree, 24 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,400 somewhere on the other side of those steps, but in the picket fence area. 25 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,400 There was a figure there and there was smoke there. 26 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,400 I will always believe that the man that shot President Kennedy 27 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,400 was standing somewhere in the picket fence area. 28 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,400 And no one will ever convince me any differently. 29 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,400 Next to Beverly, as she filmed, was eyewitness Charles Brem with his young son. 30 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,400 He was swiftly besieged by newsmen. 31 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,400 Tell us exactly what you saw, sir. 32 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,400 He was coming down the street and my five-year-old boy and myself 33 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,400 were by ourselves on the grass there on Palmer Street. 34 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,400 I asked Joe to wave to him and Joe waved and I waved to him. 35 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:25,400 That's all right, sir. You're wading, honey. 36 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:27,400 It was frightening. 37 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,400 They took me and my five-year-old boy 38 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,400 because we were surrounded by the two busloads of people there. 39 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,400 They had asked me, how do you know it was rifle shots? 40 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,400 Were you ever in the Army? 41 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:44,400 I said, yes, I was not only in the Army, I was in combat, 42 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,400 and I pulled up my sleeve and showed them my arm 43 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,400 and said that I've had bullet holes in me. 44 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,400 So this started the crowd around me. 45 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:58,400 Well, some of the police thought that I was possibly the guilty party, 46 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,400 and they took me right to the front door of the schoolbook depository 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:07,400 where a police car was parked and put me and little Joe in the police car. 48 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,400 Well, an awful lot of the people who were passing by there thought that I had did it, 49 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:18,400 and I was pounded on the car and calling me names that you don't repeat in good company, 50 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:23,400 and there were an awful lot of... You didn't know the cops from the robbers. 51 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,400 After the assassination, Beverly was contacted at work by FBI agents 52 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,400 who took her undeveloped film and promised to return it within 10 days. 53 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,400 She has not seen it since. 54 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:39,400 From the position that I was filming, I had the best shot of the assassination, 55 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,400 and probably the only one that had a real good shot of the grassy know, 56 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:52,400 and probably would be a lot of unanswered questions answered if my film could be found. 57 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,400 Fortunately, a few feet to Beverly's left, Mary Ann Mormon in the dark coat 58 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,400 took her picture a split second after the president had been fatally struck in the... 59 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:08,400 Although frequently examined by the FBI, her historic snapshot was too widely publicised 60 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,400 to disappear. 61 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,400 Its dramatic secret, however, has only recently been uncovered. 62 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,399 After five years of intensive study of the Mormon picture by two researchers in Texas, 63 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:25,399 Jack White and Gary Mack, there is at last convincing evidence of a gunman up on the... 64 00:04:25,399 --> 00:04:30,399 This here is the guy that we call Badge Man, and it appears to me that from our study o... 65 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:33,399 his waist is right at the top of the wooden fence. 66 00:04:33,399 --> 00:04:38,399 Gary Mack was the first to isolate the image, now known as Badge Man. 67 00:04:38,399 --> 00:04:43,399 What I was looking at to a lot of people might have just been like looking at an... 68 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:47,399 and all of a sudden I started to see eyes and ears and forehead and hair, 69 00:04:47,399 --> 00:04:52,399 and little by little the pieces of this image started to make sense to me, 70 00:04:52,399 --> 00:04:56,399 and that's when I first called Jack, and with his photographic work doing the blow-ups, 71 00:04:56,399 --> 00:05:02,399 we could see more and more and more detail, and at one point we realised that this fellow 72 00:05:02,399 --> 00:05:07,399 was probably wearing a police uniform, or some type of uniform that was close enough 73 00:05:07,399 --> 00:05:12,399 to what the Dallas police were wearing, so that he could pass as a police officer. 74 00:05:12,399 --> 00:05:18,399 And really, to me, that was the one scary moment, because that was such a brilliant... 75 00:05:18,399 --> 00:05:22,399 A police officer in that location, away from where people were watching, 76 00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:27,399 if anyone did see him, they wouldn't think anything about it, because there were poli... 77 00:05:27,399 --> 00:05:30,399 although nowhere near where we see this guy. 78 00:05:30,399 --> 00:05:33,399 So this guy was an imposter, and I got chills then, 79 00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:37,399 because that was the realisation that this was a very cleverly well-thought-out plan. 80 00:05:37,399 --> 00:05:41,399 You have to keep in mind that the Mary Mormon picture is about this size, 81 00:05:41,399 --> 00:05:44,399 and the area that we're dealing with is about a quarter-inch square, 82 00:05:44,399 --> 00:05:48,399 so the area that Badge Man appears in is very tiny, 83 00:05:48,399 --> 00:05:54,399 and that's why the attempts to enhance it photographically have been very difficult... 84 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:59,399 This small area was the scene of an extraordinary encounter. 85 00:05:59,399 --> 00:06:02,399 Behind the picket fence, there is a car park, 86 00:06:02,399 --> 00:06:06,399 and in 1963, Gordon Arnold was a 22-year-old serviceman, 87 00:06:06,399 --> 00:06:10,399 just out of training camp and en route to a posting in Alaska. 88 00:06:10,399 --> 00:06:13,399 This is his first film interview. 89 00:06:13,399 --> 00:06:17,399 On that particular morning, what happened was I came downtown, 90 00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:20,399 and I thought there was going to be a parade. 91 00:06:20,399 --> 00:06:24,399 So what I did was I parked my vehicle back here in this parking lot, 92 00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:27,399 and I intentionally walked to this particular corner 93 00:06:27,399 --> 00:06:33,399 because I wanted to take pictures of the parade off of the railroad bridge. 94 00:06:33,399 --> 00:06:36,399 Well, this is about as far as I got, because what happened is, 95 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:39,399 when I got my leg to about this position, 96 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:43,399 a man came around the corner off the bridge, had a suit on, 97 00:06:43,399 --> 00:06:47,399 and he turned around and told me that I wasn't going to be there. 98 00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:50,399 And I guess I was younger and more spunky at that time, 99 00:06:50,399 --> 00:06:54,399 because I told him, you and who else are going to keep me off the bridge? 100 00:06:54,399 --> 00:06:58,399 And he pulled out an identification card, and he said, I'm with the CIA. 101 00:06:58,399 --> 00:07:02,399 And I said, well, that's enough muscle. I'll leave. 102 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:06,399 So I turned around and brought my leg back over like this, 103 00:07:06,399 --> 00:07:09,399 and I walked down the fence line here about halfway, 104 00:07:09,399 --> 00:07:14,399 and I was looking over the fence to see if I could get a good shot of the parade. 105 00:07:14,399 --> 00:07:18,399 And he came back up and he told me, he says, I told you to get out of this area. 106 00:07:18,399 --> 00:07:22,399 And I said, OK. So I walked the complete length of the fence, 107 00:07:22,399 --> 00:07:25,399 got around on the other side. 108 00:07:25,399 --> 00:07:29,399 That's when I started to line up my frame so that I could take the picture of the parade. 109 00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:36,399 I had been panning shots through here so that I could get whatever was going to come dow... 110 00:07:36,399 --> 00:07:39,399 and I saw that it was the President of the United States. 111 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:43,399 And as I was panning down this direction, 112 00:07:43,399 --> 00:07:48,399 just as I got to about this position, a shot came right past my left ear, 113 00:07:48,399 --> 00:07:52,399 and that meant it would have had to come from this direction. 114 00:07:52,399 --> 00:08:00,399 And that's when I fell down, and to me it seemed like a second shot was at least fir... 115 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:05,399 There was a bunch of report going on in this particular area at that time. 116 00:08:05,399 --> 00:08:10,399 And what happened was that while I was laying on the ground, 117 00:08:10,399 --> 00:08:14,399 it seemed like a gentleman came from this particular direction, 118 00:08:14,399 --> 00:08:18,399 and I thought it was a police officer because he had a uniform in the police officer. 119 00:08:18,399 --> 00:08:23,399 But he didn't wear a hat, and he had dirty hands. 120 00:08:23,399 --> 00:08:28,399 But it didn't really matter much at that time because with him crying like he was, 121 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:32,399 and with him shaking when he had the weapon in his hand, 122 00:08:32,399 --> 00:08:37,399 I think I would have gave him almost anything except the camera because that was my... 123 00:08:37,399 --> 00:08:43,399 And literally what the man did was kick me and ask me if I was taking a picture. 124 00:08:43,399 --> 00:08:46,399 I told him that I was. 125 00:08:46,399 --> 00:08:48,399 And when I looked at the weapon, it was about that big around, 126 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:52,399 and I decided that I'd let him go ahead and have the film. 127 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:58,399 I gave it to him, and then he went back off in this direction. 128 00:08:58,399 --> 00:09:03,399 I went off in this direction, and three days later I was in Alaska. 129 00:09:03,399 --> 00:09:07,399 And I didn't come back to the United States for about 18 months. 130 00:09:07,399 --> 00:09:11,399 We spent a lot of time studying the picture and looking at little details, 131 00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:16,399 and I guess in the back of our minds was a story that had come out four years earlier 132 00:09:16,399 --> 00:09:19,399 by a man named Gordon Arnold who claimed to be a witness to the assassination 133 00:09:19,399 --> 00:09:22,399 and claimed to have been standing up by the fence. 134 00:09:22,399 --> 00:09:28,399 And there was a light blob of something very close to where Badgeman was. 135 00:09:28,399 --> 00:09:32,399 We weren't sure what it was, but gradually his details started coming out 136 00:09:32,399 --> 00:09:34,399 with Jack's photo work. 137 00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:37,399 We realized that this image was probably Gordon Arnold. 138 00:09:37,399 --> 00:09:41,399 And here's a guy who had told his story just to an acquaintance and was overheard, 139 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:43,399 and that story went off to the news media, 140 00:09:43,399 --> 00:09:47,399 and Gordon Arnold was interviewed and it appeared in the newspaper 141 00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:50,399 that he had been at the scene and was in that location, 142 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:54,399 but no one believed him because there were no photographs or films 143 00:09:54,399 --> 00:09:57,399 that showed a man in that position. 144 00:09:57,399 --> 00:10:00,399 But all of a sudden the Mormon picture confirmed his story. 145 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:03,399 And again, the interesting part is that Gordon Arnold's story came out 146 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:08,399 four years before we noticed the appearance of this figure in the Mormon photograph. 147 00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:13,399 We later learned that Arnold was wearing this army cap 148 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:18,399 that had a slight point at the top and a medallion on the right-hand side 149 00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:22,399 that said U.S. Army, and it's exactly what we see in the photograph. 150 00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:25,399 We also know that Gordon Arnold was filming this scene with a movie camera, 151 00:10:25,399 --> 00:10:27,399 and that's exactly what the photograph shows 152 00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:31,399 because we see the right arm of the person in this position 153 00:10:31,399 --> 00:10:34,399 with his hand up toward his face 154 00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:37,399 and what appears to be obstructing his face, 155 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:40,399 something perhaps like a movie camera. 156 00:10:40,399 --> 00:10:43,399 You want to check that measurement once again? 157 00:10:43,399 --> 00:10:47,399 Gary and Jack's work has been verified and duplicated 158 00:10:47,399 --> 00:10:50,399 by independent experts in Great Britain. 159 00:10:50,399 --> 00:10:54,399 Measurements taken in Dealey Plaza and from Mary Ann's original camera 160 00:10:54,399 --> 00:10:59,399 confirm that it was possible for the badgeman figure to have fired the fatal headshot. 161 00:10:59,399 --> 00:11:01,399 Excellent view of the street from here. 162 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:04,399 See the center lane, which is where the President was. 163 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:07,399 You can see that whole lane for almost the entire period. 164 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:09,399 It's a great position to be in. 165 00:11:09,399 --> 00:11:12,399 But the photograph had yet more to reveal. 166 00:11:12,399 --> 00:11:15,399 I was sitting in my office here one day looking at the picture, 167 00:11:15,399 --> 00:11:20,399 and I saw just all of a sudden what appeared to be another image 168 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:23,399 standing directly behind the badgeman. 169 00:11:23,399 --> 00:11:28,399 This appears to be a person in a hard hat and a white T-shirt. 170 00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:32,399 The lighting on him is entirely consistent with the lighting on badgeman. 171 00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:37,399 In other words, there's a highlight on the construction helmet that he seemed to be... 172 00:11:37,399 --> 00:11:41,399 There's a shadow of his head down on his shoulders, 173 00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:46,399 and the lighting source is absolutely consistent with the rest of the picture. 174 00:11:46,399 --> 00:11:51,399 He appears to be looking off in the direction of the school book depository. 175 00:11:51,399 --> 00:11:57,399 It was important in all this work that we develop some independent corroboration for... 176 00:11:57,399 --> 00:12:01,399 One of the important and yet often neglected witnesses in the Kennedy case 177 00:12:01,399 --> 00:12:03,399 is a railroad signalman named Lee Bowers, 178 00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:08,399 who was working in a railroad tower behind the picket fence and behind the grassy knoll. 179 00:12:08,399 --> 00:12:12,399 He had a good view of the area where we see these figures. 180 00:12:12,399 --> 00:12:18,399 He testified to the Warren Commission and told them that when Kennedy appeared in... 181 00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:21,399 there were two men behind the fence that he could see, 182 00:12:21,399 --> 00:12:27,399 and these two men were in this one position the whole time before, during and after th... 183 00:12:27,399 --> 00:12:32,399 Lee Bowers died in a mysterious car accident two and a half years after the assassination. 184 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,399 However, his story is confirmed by another eyewitness, Ed Hoffman, 185 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:42,399 a deaf mute who is interviewed here for the first time. 186 00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:46,399 I'd gotten off work early because I had a dentist's appointment. 187 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:49,399 I was traveling down the freeway here, 188 00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:53,399 and I remembered that President Kennedy was coming to visit Dallas. 189 00:12:56,399 --> 00:12:58,399 I parked my car here. 190 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:03,399 I realized at this spot that I would be able to see Kennedy pass close by. 191 00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:08,399 I stood here and waited, and I was looking towards where he would be coming from. 192 00:13:09,399 --> 00:13:14,399 I suddenly saw two men who looked suspicious, directly over there in the car park. 193 00:13:15,399 --> 00:13:18,399 Twenty-five years ago, these trees did not obscure the view. 194 00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:20,399 From his position at the side of the freeway, 195 00:13:20,399 --> 00:13:24,399 Ed Hoffman could clearly see the car park area behind the grassy knoll. 196 00:13:27,399 --> 00:13:32,399 I saw a man standing here, wearing a black hat and a blue jacket. 197 00:13:32,399 --> 00:13:37,399 I saw a puff of smoke, and I thought it was a cigarette, but it wasn't. 198 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:41,399 He had a gun, and he walked towards the railroad. 199 00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:46,399 He tossed the gun to the second man. 200 00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:49,399 Then he turned and straightened his jacket, 201 00:13:49,399 --> 00:13:52,399 adjusted his hat, and walked casually away. 202 00:14:00,399 --> 00:14:04,399 The man with the striped shirt, the railroad shirt, 203 00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:07,399 walked over to the electrical box with the gun. 204 00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:09,399 He took the gun apart. 205 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:12,399 He put it in a toolbox. 206 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:24,399 He then walked slowly away, in the direction of the railroad track. 207 00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:31,399 When the motorcade passed by below me here, 208 00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:34,399 I realized that Kennedy had been shot. 209 00:14:34,399 --> 00:14:36,399 I was horrified. 210 00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:39,399 I saw a policeman standing on the railroad bridge, 211 00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:43,399 and I tried to get his attention, but he didn't see me. 212 00:14:43,399 --> 00:14:48,399 So I got in my car and drove to the area where I had seen the two men. 213 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:52,399 But there were so many people there, and I couldn't find them. 214 00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:57,399 I went to the FBI to tell them what I had seen. 215 00:14:57,399 --> 00:14:59,399 They didn't want me to say anything. 216 00:14:59,399 --> 00:15:01,399 They offered me money to keep quiet. 217 00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:06,399 They didn't understand that it was more important for me to tell them what I'd seen. 218 00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:12,399 It was hard for me to communicate with them. 219 00:15:13,399 --> 00:15:17,399 I do feel that the two men I saw were working together, 220 00:15:17,399 --> 00:15:23,399 and that the one with the gun behind the fence was the man who shot President Kennedy. 221 00:15:23,399 --> 00:15:25,399 Look at the situation. 222 00:15:25,399 --> 00:15:28,399 The FBI started the investigation right away, 223 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:31,399 and they had all these reports, over 50 reports from eyewitnesses, 224 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:34,399 saying at least one of the shots came from that area. 225 00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,399 And here, all of a sudden, they've got a photograph that shows a precise area 226 00:15:37,399 --> 00:15:41,399 within a sixth of a second of when the president's head explodes. 227 00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:44,399 Someone, somewhere in the FBI, must have wondered, 228 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:46,399 perhaps the gunman is in this picture. 229 00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:49,399 And I think they knew the evening of the assassination 230 00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:51,399 that there was a second gunman up in the grassy knoll. 231 00:15:51,399 --> 00:15:56,399 The medical evidence, as it exists now, does not indicate a shot from the front. 232 00:15:56,399 --> 00:16:00,399 But we do have to understand that if Badgeman was firing, 233 00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:03,399 and if it was Badgeman's shot that struck the president in the head, 234 00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:06,399 that means the medical evidence has been altered. 235 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:09,399 And there you've got conspiracy existing within the United States government. 236 00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:13,399 Despite the government, Gordon Arnold is certain of what he saw. 237 00:16:13,399 --> 00:16:17,399 The training that I had just finished, they were shooting live ammunition over us. 238 00:16:17,399 --> 00:16:21,399 And when a bullet goes past your ear and your eardrum 239 00:16:21,399 --> 00:16:24,399 feels like it's coming out the other side of your head, it's close. 240 00:16:24,399 --> 00:16:26,399 That's why I thought I was shot. 241 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,399 It snuck out in my mind that I was there. And it did occur. 242 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:33,399 Further verification of Gordon's presence on the knoll 243 00:16:33,399 --> 00:16:36,399 comes from a surprising source, Senator Yarborough. 244 00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:39,399 During that shooting, my eye was attracted to the right of soil movement. 245 00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:42,399 And I saw a man just jump about ten feet like at the old time, 246 00:16:42,399 --> 00:16:45,399 flying, tackling football and land against a wall. 247 00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:49,399 I thought to myself, there's an infantryman who's either been shot at in combat 248 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:51,399 or he's been trained thoroughly. 249 00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:54,399 The minute you hear a fire, get undercover. 250 00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:57,399 This colourised version of the badgeman picture 251 00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:00,399 was shown to Gordon Arnold for the first time. 252 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:06,400 He has always believed there was no proof of his presence on the knoll that day. 253 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:14,400 Looks like a soldier in a summer uniform with an overseas cap on. 254 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:19,400 It looks like it would have been my uniform. 255 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,400 It looks like there's a... 256 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,400 a camera. 257 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,400 Or there's something up in front of the face. 258 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,400 It looks like a... 259 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,400 a white spot. 260 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,400 If it's a flash, it would be like off of a muzzle flash. 261 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,400 This looks like a police officer, because that would be the badge. 262 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,400 That would be the arm emblem. 263 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:12,400 Would this fellow back here be the railroad man I asked you about this morning? 264 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:17,400 Because when I was walking to the site 265 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,400 and I had never told anybody that I had... 266 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,400 when we were out there filming, 267 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,400 it reminded me that there was a railroad worker 268 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,400 just standing out there by the railroad tracks. 269 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,400 But that... 270 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:39,400 it looks like somebody's taking a picture. 271 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,400 I couldn't figure out why would I be standing crooked 272 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,400 until I flipped that up, and if that's a muzzle blast or flash, 273 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:54,400 then whoever's standing there would have been a fool to stand up straight. 274 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:59,400 He'd be trying to get away from harm's way, is what it boils down to. 275 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,400 And that could very well be me. 276 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,400 The railroad man. 277 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,400 Son of a gun. 278 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,400 That would be the closest thing that... 279 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,400 I've ever... 280 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,400 To be honest with you, the picture bothers me, 281 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:33,400 because if this is a true thing of what has occurred, 282 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,400 then I could be the only one that... 283 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,400 Suck... Suckerman. 284 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,400 They killed the president. 285 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,400 And to be honest with you, if I'd have known this... 286 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,400 I wouldn't have given the interview. 287 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:08,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 288 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:13,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 289 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:18,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 290 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 291 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:28,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 292 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 293 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 294 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:42,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 295 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:47,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 296 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:52,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 297 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 298 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,400 I'd have been the only one that would have been able to get away from harm's way. 299 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,400 The murder of the President of the United States was a murder of the President of th... 300 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:09,400 due to a painstaking and dangerous investigation by one man, writer Steve... 301 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:14,400 My goal throughout the last four years has been to identify the people who actually... 302 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:19,400 build a case against them, and bring them into custody so that they can be questioned. 303 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,400 Because it seems to me that the only way we are going to learn the true nature of this... 304 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,400 and identify the people who are ultimately responsible is through them. 305 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,400 Revell's lone pursuit of Kennedy's killers began four years ago. 306 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,400 His first breakthrough came when he was given the name of a French drug smuggler in pris... 307 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,400 Who, it was rumoured, had some first-hand knowledge of the President's assassination. 308 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:49,400 The initial turning point was the first meeting that I had with the French narcoti... 309 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,400 His name was Christian David. He had been a member of the old French Connection heroin... 310 00:21:55,400 --> 00:22:00,400 He had then been a leader of the Corsican drug trafficking network in South America,... 311 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:07,400 And he had also been an intelligence agent for a number of intelligence services arou... 312 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:15,400 In exchange for my help in finding him an attorney to represent him against the... 313 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:22,400 after he finished his sentence at Leavenworth, he agreed to give me a certai... 314 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,400 concerning the assassination based upon his own knowledge. 315 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:33,400 The first thing that he told me, very reluctantly, and only after four or five... 316 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,400 was that he was aware that there had been a conspiracy to murder the President. 317 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:44,400 And indeed, in May or June of 1963 in Marseille, he had been offered the contrac... 318 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,400 That was the initial breakthrough, if you will. 319 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,400 He was eventually deported to France. I remained in contact with him. 320 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,400 I went to Paris to interview him in two prisons in Paris. 321 00:22:55,400 --> 00:23:04,400 And in the fear that he would be either committed to an asylum or that he would be... 322 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,400 he gradually gave me additional information about the assassination. 323 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:17,400 His position was that there were three killers, and that they had been hired on a... 324 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:23,400 which had been placed with the leader of the Corsican Mafia of Marseille, a man named... 325 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:33,400 Guérinie, he said, was asked to supply three assassins, high-quality, experienced kille... 326 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,400 And that Guérinie did so. 327 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:40,400 In the course of one of the first significant conversations I had with David on this... 328 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,400 he told me that he had been in Marseille in May or June of 1963, 329 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:52,400 and that every evening he went to Antoine Guérinie's club on the old port of Marseil... 330 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,400 One evening Guérinie sent for him, asked him to come to his office, which was above the... 331 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:05,400 Guérinie told him that he had an important contract, and he asked David if he were... 332 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,400 David said, who's the contract on? 333 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,400 Guérinie said, an American politician. 334 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,400 David asked, well, is it a congressman, a senator? 335 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,400 And Guérinie said, higher than that. 336 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,400 La plus e haute de grume, he said, the highest vegetable. 337 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,400 At that point, of course, David knew who he was talking about. 338 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,400 David asked him, where was the contract to be carried out? 339 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,400 And when Guérinie said it would be done inside the United States, 340 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,400 David refused on the grounds that that was much too dangerous. 341 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:40,400 Now, David initially would only give me the first name of one of the three men 342 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,400 on the grounds that two of the three were still alive. 343 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:50,400 And since they were members of this Corsican milieu, which has a code of silence and a... 344 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,400 if he named them, he himself would be murdered. 345 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:58,400 However, he did agree to give me the first name of the third man who he said was dead. 346 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,400 And that man, he said, was named Lucien. 347 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:09,400 I then spent a great deal of time in Paris and Marseille trying to find out who this... 348 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,400 And through contacts that I made in the journalistic and police and intelligence... 349 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,400 I was able to determine that this Lucien was, in fact, a Corsican drug trafficker and... 350 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,400 of the 1960s and 70s by the name of Lucien Sarty. 351 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,400 Sarty had been killed in Mexico City in 1972. 352 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:32,400 I confronted David with the name of Sarty, and he in effect confirmed that that was t... 353 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:40,400 He was an extremely reckless, very daring man, known and despised even by his... 354 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:47,400 But that same recklessness made him one of the most successful contract killers and d... 355 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:55,400 Having identified Sarty, Christian David, fearing for his life, refused to name the... 356 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:03,400 Nonetheless, in successive interviews, he slowly began to reveal how the contract,... 357 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:08,400 In the fall of 1963, the three killers were flown from Marseille to Mexico City, 358 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:14,400 where they spent some three or four weeks at the house of a contact in Mexico City. 359 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:20,400 He said that they were then driven from Mexico City to the U.S. border at... 360 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,400 They crossed the border using Italian passports. 361 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:28,400 He said that they were picked up on the American side of the border at Brownsville... 362 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,400 with whom they conversed in Italian. 363 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,400 They were then driven to Dallas and put up in a safe house, which had been prepared for... 364 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,400 He said that they spent several days taking photographs of Dillie Plaza, 365 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:49,400 and in the evenings at the safe house, they studied the photographs and they arranged... 366 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:58,400 On the question of the actual murder, he was reasonably specific that two of the assass... 367 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,400 He did not know which buildings. 368 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,400 However, he did specify that one was high and one was low. 369 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,400 In fact, he said, presque sur le horizontal, almost on the horizontal. 370 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:14,400 And he went on to add, you can't understand the wounds unless you understand that one ... 371 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:25,400 Now, in a separate conversation with David, I asked him, based upon what I knew about... 372 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:30,400 whether Sartee had ever said anything to him about having worn a disguise. 373 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,400 And David said, what do you mean by a disguise? 374 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,400 I asked him, did Sartee ever indicate that he wore clothing other than he normally would... 375 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:43,400 And David thought about it for a moment and said, he wore a uniform. 376 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,400 I asked him what kind of uniform and he refused to answer. 377 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,400 But he did add that on jobs like this, they were always in disguise. 378 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,400 He said, if, for example, there were a military post nearby, they would dress in... 379 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,400 He said that there were four shots. 380 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,400 The first shot was fired from the rear, struck the president in the back. 381 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:08,400 The second shot was also fired from the rear and, as David said, hit the other man in t... 382 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:14,400 The third shot was fired by Sartee from the front, struck the president in the head. 383 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,400 And the fourth shot was fired from the rear and missed the automobile entirely. 384 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:26,400 So his scenario, as he claims to have learned it from the gunman, was three guns, four... 385 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,400 Three hits, one miss. 386 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:34,400 He also added at one point that two of the shots were fired almost simultaneously. 387 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:40,400 He said that in the moment of panic, which always follows an incident of this kind, 388 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:44,400 they were able to get away from Dilley Plaza and go back to the safe house. 389 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:50,400 Now, he made the specific point that the worst thing that you can do at a moment li... 390 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:56,400 And so they stayed in their safe house for some ten days until things quieted down... 391 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,400 and then they were flown by a private plane from Dallas to Montreal. 392 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,400 He said that the people who met them in Montreal were established contacts 393 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:09,400 who were used to moving people in and out of the country, and that from Montreal they... 394 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:17,400 Now, having told me all of this, I presented to him the obvious problem, which was his... 395 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,400 And I asked him, was there anybody in the world who could substantiate this story? 396 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:27,400 And it was at that point, after thinking about it for a minute, that he advised me ... 397 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,400 Michel Nicoli could have been anywhere in the world. 398 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,400 A former narcotics trafficker turned government informant. 399 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,400 He had become a United States federally protected witness and had officially... 400 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,400 I searched for him in Europe, North America, Central America, and South America. 401 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,400 I traveled many, many thousands of miles, spoke to hundreds and hundreds of people. 402 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,400 I was given a lot of false leads. 403 00:29:52,400 --> 00:30:00,400 I took out coded ads in newspapers all over the world addressed to him using language... 404 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:09,400 And finally, in June of 1986, I almost by accident found the one person in the U.S.... 405 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,400 who was a very high official of the Drug Enforcement Administration. 406 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,400 I was able to persuade this man to put me in touch with him without telling him why I... 407 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,400 And he agreed to do so. 408 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:28,400 My DEA contact at one point said to me that in the 30 years that he had been in the... 409 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,400 He had never given the government false or misleading information. 410 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:37,400 And if he said something was true, as my friend said, you could go to the bank on it. 411 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:44,400 Another DEA official whom I spoke to in Marseille who has known Michel as a witnes... 412 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:50,400 Have you had any contact, whatever, with Christian David recently? 413 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:52,400 No, I haven't. 414 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:53,400 For how long? 415 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,400 Not since we were in Brazil together. 416 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,400 I caught sight of him in prison. 417 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,400 But only in passing, that's all. 418 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,400 We haven't been in touch. 419 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,400 So that's how long it's been since you have had any contact with him. 420 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,400 In 1972, we came back from Brazil together. 421 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,400 I met him in prison. 422 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,400 Or rather, I caught a glimpse of him in the criminal court. 423 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,400 That's all. 424 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,400 I just caught sight of him. 425 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:33,400 That's all. 426 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,400 Since then, I haven't seen him. 427 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:43,400 In the course of three subsequent conversations, among other things, Michel... 428 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,400 And I went through with him the details that David had given me. 429 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:55,400 He confirmed all of the details with the exception of two, in which case he said he... 430 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:02,400 But he did say that he had learned the details from the same source at the same t... 431 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:16,400 When we met in a bar in Argentina in 1966, I think, Christian David was present. 432 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,400 There were four or five, five or six of us, I can't remember exactly. 433 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,400 The final pieces of the puzzle were falling into place. 434 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,400 From the lips of Michel Nicoli, Steve now had the names of the other two assassins. 435 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:40,400 He now sought to confirm their participation from his first informant, still awaiting... 436 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,400 At that point, I then went back to David. 437 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,400 I gave him all three names, and in effect, he confirmed them. 438 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:55,400 When I showed David an aerial photograph of Dealey Plaza, the first thing he said was,... 439 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,400 I pointed out the bridge over Elm Street, and he said that was where Sartille wanted to be. 440 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:08,400 But on the morning of the assassination, the bridge was guarded, and he was forced, as ... 441 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:17,400 He took up a position from behind the wooden fence from which he fired one shot, and Da... 442 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:26,400 Now, he said that Sartille was the only one who used that kind of ammunition, a remark... 443 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:34,400 When I asked Michel if it were true that Sartille had used an exploding bullet, Mic... 444 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:39,400 Yes, it's Lucien Sartille. 445 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,400 And me too. 446 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,400 I sometimes carried them with me, but I didn't use them. 447 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:51,400 What was the advantage of having bullets like that? 448 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:56,400 It makes a larger hole in the body. 449 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:08,400 When the bullet flattens out, there aren't any traces, no marks, nothing. 450 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:18,400 On the question of payment, Michel agreed with David that the assassins had been pai... 451 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:29,400 In my first conversation with him, he indicated that although he did not know it... 452 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:39,400 He indicated, at least initially, that the three men had appeared at his apartment in... 453 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:45,400 He was surprised, because to his knowledge, it was the first time that any of the thre... 454 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:51,400 But given his reputation for not asking embarrassing questions, he simply agreed t... 455 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:57,400 Did they ever give you any indication about who was behind this contract? 456 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,400 No, they didn't talk to me about that. 457 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:10,400 It was Christian David who told me that it was someone in the mafia, but I don't know... 458 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:17,400 But it was known more or less generally in this circle of Frenchmen in South America... 459 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,400 Yes. 460 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:36,400 My own conviction at this point is that the contract probably originated with Carlos... 461 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:53,400 Beyond that, it seems reasonable that Giancana of Chicago was involved, if we... 462 00:35:53,400 --> 00:36:08,400 And the fact that Sartis' customers were primarily in New York and the fact that th... 463 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,400 In your view, why would they go so far to find assassins for such a job? 464 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:29,400 In my opinion, to obliterate any traces, to fool the government. 465 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:38,400 Yes, it's more difficult to find foreign killers. It's more difficult, in my view. 466 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:50,400 The mafia had to hire white men for the job, since it was to take place in the American... 467 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:55,400 Secondly, they needed highly experienced, skilled assassins. 468 00:36:55,400 --> 00:37:05,400 Thirdly, they needed assassins who, if they were caught, could not directly be tied to... 469 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:11,400 And fourthly, once again, if they were caught, assassins who could be counted on ... 470 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:31,400 When someone has a contract to kill someone, he's not rubbing out the name, he's rubbin... 471 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:36,400 But after all, it was the President of the United States they were talking about. 472 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:53,400 If they did it, it's because they didn't give a damn. There are people like David who... 473 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,400 But Sarty, would he have been capable of that? 474 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:09,400 Oh yes, as a killer, he's capable of anything. It's not a question of sentiment... 475 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:16,400 I couldn't pursue the matter much farther on my own. To this point I had been working o... 476 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,400 It was clear that at this point I was going to need some sort of official assistance. 477 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:27,400 And so I decided to confide what I knew in the DEA official who had put me in touch w... 478 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:36,400 Based upon what Michelle had said and his own inquiries, the DEA official decided that t... 479 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:42,400 The first step was that he and I together went to interview Michelle. 480 00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:48,400 And to my enormous relief, Michelle repeated essentially the same story he had told me ... 481 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:55,400 At that point, I in effect had engaged some official interest on the part of the... 482 00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:07,400 The DEA official then felt that it was necessary to make the FBI aware of what it... 483 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:13,400 The essence of what I learned was turned over to the FBI by the DEA in 1987. 484 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:19,400 An official of the FBI then interviewed Michel Nicollet and indicated that he was... 485 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:28,400 I assumed at that point, given the testimony by credible witnesses, the government woul... 486 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,400 So far as I can tell, since then nothing has happened. 487 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:47,400 Subsequent to that, I was able to learn from Christian David and other sources that the... 488 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:56,400 He was for many years the liaison between the Guérinis, their headquarters here on the O... 489 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:10,400 They established that liaison in Havana when Mandeloni ran the Corsican casinos there, ... 490 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:16,400 Mandeloni would have been the ideal person to have organized and carried out this plot. 491 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:24,400 The feeling on the part of the officials both at DEA and FBI, however, was that before w... 492 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:31,400 We had potentially Michel Nicollet. They felt we would also have to have Christian David. 493 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:39,400 However, Christian David has steadfastly refused to testify on this case until he i... 494 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:52,400 Now, all this is very frustrating, and it's a very intolerable state of affairs, because... 495 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,400 We have people we can put our hands on, people we can arrest, and nothing is being... 496 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:06,400 And yet until they're arrested and interrogated and the truth comes from thei... 497 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,400 We may never have the truth about this matter. And that's a situation that I... 498 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:20,400 Christian David is still in Paris on the old murder charge, the shooting of a French... 499 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:30,400 He vehemently protests his innocence. His defense lawyer Henri Germy has great faith... 500 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:42,400 David is not anybody. He's a serious man. And American authorities knows that David is a... 501 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:55,400 David has been a long time in jail during his life, but anyway he has made a lot of thin... 502 00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:04,400 But David has always been extremely reluctant to impart any details of what he knows abo... 503 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:20,400 He said, yes, I know certain things. Could you tell me those things? I asked him. He... 504 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:36,400 Yes, but he told me I can, if you want, write to you what I know. I said, all right. 505 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:49,400 And then he wrote to me a letter, a closed letter. And on this letter it's written, 506 00:42:49,400 --> 00:43:01,400 This letter must be kept in custody by my lawyer until I regain my freedom. It canno... 507 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:18,400 That letter must be kept in deposit by my lawyer until I am free. It's impossible to... 508 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:23,400 There is two signatures, Christian David, Christian David. 509 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:47,400 I think there is in this envelope details important to find murderers, because I thi... 510 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:55,400 That's what it is in this envelope. That's what I think about that. 511 00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:05,400 With the new evidence that has emerged from these investigations, so many of the... 512 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:14,400 Not least of all, the manipulation of the medical evidence to conceal the devastatin... 513 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:25,400 The use of such a distinctive missile and its trajectory would have been immediately... 514 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:32,400 A frangible bullet is one that is constructed to literally break apart upon impact. 515 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:38,400 Some people call it an exploding missile, some people call it a Dum Dum, but they're... 516 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,400 I think the more correct technical word would be a frangible bullet. 517 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:59,400 If a frangible bullet had been fired from the right side, then it would have of course... 518 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:05,400 There were many small pieces of metal that were never subjected to neutron activation... 519 00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:14,400 And unless that was done, you see, we could never know for sure whether all of the... 520 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:26,400 That's the significance of the brain examination relating to whether there was ... 521 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:35,400 I've become convinced that Oswald had nothing to do with the assassination and that he w... 522 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:46,400 Based upon what I've learned, it seems to me that all the principles involved in the pl... 523 00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:52,400 There was Traficante and Giancana, who had been conspiring with the CIA to assassinat... 524 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:58,400 Antoine Guigny, who had had a relationship with both the OSS and the CIA dating from... 525 00:45:58,400 --> 00:46:05,400 And there was Oswald, whom I'm satisfied had been used as a low-level intelligence... 526 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:13,400 So even though I don't think that the CIA, for example, had anything directly to do w... 527 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:20,400 A position in which they could very easily have been blackmailed by the plotters into... 528 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:28,400 But the Mafia could hardly have acted alone, given the intricacy of the assassination p... 529 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:34,400 Colonel Fletcher Prouty was chief of special operations of the Joint Chiefs of Staff... 530 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,400 He believes even more powerful forces were ultimately responsible. 531 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,400 I think without any question it's what we call the use of hired gunmen. 532 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:54,400 And this isn't new. In fact, this little manual here, which is called the... 533 00:46:54,400 --> 00:47:02,400 talking about Latin America, if possible, professional criminals will be hired to ca... 534 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:04,400 Jobs, in quote, which means murders. 535 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:11,400 Well, if this manual for Latin America, printed within the last few years, and a... 536 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:16,400 there's no question but what the application of the same techniques was dated back in... 537 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,400 In fact, I know that from my own experience. You know, I was in that business in those... 538 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:28,400 So, with that knowledge, you begin to realize that hired criminals, the way this book says, 539 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:39,400 can be hired by anybody in power with sufficient money to pay them, but more... 540 00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:47,400 Because you see, there's one thing to kill somebody. It's another thing to cover up t... 541 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:53,400 And that's more difficult. So they use the device of the Warren Commission report to... 542 00:47:54,400 --> 00:48:01,400 Now, who would hire the killers and who has the power to put the Warren Commission rep... 543 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:07,400 You see, you're dealing with a very high echelon of power. It doesn't necessarily... 544 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:14,400 It doesn't necessarily reside in any single corporate institution, but it seems to res... 545 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:20,400 Otherwise, how could you have gotten people like the Chief Justice of the Supreme Cour... 546 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,400 The police in Dallas to participate in the cover-up, et cetera, and the media. 547 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:34,400 You know, all the media, not just one or two newspapers, but none of them will print th... 548 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:45,400 I think it's extremely important for the American people to know that there can be ... 549 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:51,400 that that, in fact, did happen through the assassination of President Kennedy in orde... 550 00:48:51,400 --> 00:49:01,400 in order to expose the forces that were responsible for that kind of murder and th... 551 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:06,400 it's necessary to expose it. Otherwise, we can have the same thing repeated again. 552 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:15,400 Therefore, in the same fashion that we have exposed problems and scandals involved wit... 553 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:27,400 problems in the overthrow of governments elsewhere like Allende and Chile, and on a... 554 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:38,400 As painful as it may be, as disruptive as it might be in a transitory nature, as... 555 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:45,400 that has to be uncovered. If they were able to do it to John F. Kennedy then, they cou... 556 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,400 Thank you.